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Jan. 24, 2023 - Tulsi Gabbard Show

01:25:31

How The U.S. Education System is Failing Our Kids | The Tulsi Gabbard Show

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	Do you think there should be a Department of Education?
	Hell no.
	Zero go.
	Does government have a role in education?
	Zero percent.
	That is a wildly education.
	All education is self-education.
	When we talk about the education of our children, it's hard to understate how important that really is, how important it is for them, for our kids, how important it is for families, how important it is for them, for our kids, how important it is for families, how important But very rarely do you ever hear anyone asking the question of what is true education?
	What's the difference between school versus education?
	And are we as a country providing education We have a huge number of kids who are graduating from high school functionally.
	We're illiterate, having a difficult time with basic reading and writing.
	We have kids who don't understand basic civics, how government works, how our democracy in this society works, why it's important to participate in it, not having an understanding or even knowing what the Constitution is and what the Bill of Rights says and why it is integral and important to every one of us It goes back to this core question of what is education and what are we as a society placing importance on as we're talking about educating our
	children and setting them up for success in their lives.
	My conversation with today's guest, Matt Boudreaux, was fascinating and gets to the heart of these very questions.
	If we claim to care about our children and their futures, then we have to get to the root cause of the problem with the education system in this country.
	Thank you for doing this.
	As I was getting ready to talk to you, I was trying to remember how I got to know who you are.
	We were not mutually introduced, and I don't know if it was the Instagram...
	People sending your content my way or what it was, but all I do remember is seeing the things that you were posting on Instagram.
	I think the first one was having to do with college, higher education, if you want to call it that, and how basically it's just a racket.
	Yeah.
	That's about it.
	It's a for-profit rack.
	I was like, oh my gosh.
	That's about it.
	I agree completely.
	Yes, ma'am.
	Yeah.
	And you know what?
	And I think it was.
	I think it was through Instagram.
	And I think PatrickBetDavid had sent me something via Instagram saying, hey...
	Why are you and Tulsi not chatting or something?
	I think I commented there and I think it was something on that.
	You're right.
	Yeah.
	And he's one of those guys too that I've had, you know, this conversation with openly over and over again going, do you care when you're hiring somebody?
	And he's like, actually, I kind of prefer that they don't.
	And I'm going, yep, I get it.
	Yeah.
	So he's not the only one.
	So yeah.
	So I've been looking forward to talking to you for this reason is because you're saying a lot of things.
	I know you give a lot of speeches publicly and you put out a lot of interesting and truthful commentary online.
	I know you're in education as well.
	You've started some schools.
	You do a lot of different things.
	But what I appreciate is that you bring a voice of common sense and truth that is not often heard.
	Especially around education, which is, it seems to be one of these kind of untouchable topics where, you know, if you attack education, you're attacking kids.
	And I know this very well coming from the political realm of having been in Congress for eight years, serving in the state legislature as well as the city council here in Hawaii, but also working with some nonprofits around education in different respects.
	But for me, this isn't something that I came to realize later on.
	I was homeschooled, fourth of five kids, and my parents are teachers by trade and training.
	After college, they moved to American Samoa.
	My dad was the assistant dean of the community college.
	Mom was a special ed.
	She was a speech therapist, and she was working with special needs kids there in American Samoa.
	Fast forward, moved here to Hawaii.
	I was two years old.
	Long story short, they made the decision to educate us at home because they understand the value of true education.
	And for them, you know, I mean, this was...
	Back in the day when homeschooling wasn't very popular or even accepted.
	Yeah, it was considered unusual at best.
	And there were times like we were not allowed to leave the house to go and play in the park until after 2 o'clock or whatever because cops might try to pick us up for skipping school and just all this kind of stuff.
	But I remain so grateful for To them for that.
	Because I experienced a kind of freedom to learn and live as a kid that, you know, I know many of my friends just didn't have what to speak of a lot of the...
	Like, I can't even imagine going to school right now dealing with the social pressures of social media and bullying and image and just, like, all this stuff we're seeing.
	It's terrifying, actually, to think about.
	It is terrifying.
	It is terrifying.
	All of that, we all agree that that is present.
	We agree that there are agendas playing out.
	We agree that bullying is at an all-time high.
	We agree that there are so many amazing young people but they are broken and they are questioning things that they should never be questioning.
	They are dealing with issues they should never be dealing with.
	And yet we are sending our children into that environment and saying, well, that's what socialization looks like.
	Right.
	And it's rooted in this fear.
	You know, you talked about your parents and God bless them.
	That's fantastic.
	You know, making that decision, especially when it was so hard to do that.
	Yeah.
	And we got so many parents, though, that are so afraid of doing anything different, you know, and you said the key word.
	You said freedom.
	You were grateful for the freedom that you had.
	And one of the things that I talked to parents about is that I talked to them about the fact that you're born into this kind of cult mentality.
	We were born into, well, this is just what everybody does in school.
	And so to look outside of that, it's that whole concept of birds born in a cage think flying is an illness sort of thing.
	So you see these people flying in freedom, but it's like, oh, there's something wrong with them.
	Yeah.
	But what should education be for?
	Well, it should be for that freedom.
	It should be to understand how I pick up the pen and how I write the story of my life.
	And I write myself as the giving, valiant, charitable, character-driven, purpose-driven hero.
	And then I bring my kids up in that exact same sort.
	That's what it should be for.
	But we don't stop to ask the question, what should education be for?
	We just assume that school School and education are the same.
	And they're not.
	And you also said when you speak out against it, people think you're speaking out against kids.
	And that's so far from the truth.
	And people also think if you speak out against the system that you're speaking out against teachers.
	And I always want to make that clear.
	I was a public school teacher.
	I still have so many dear friends that are teachers and administrators and I love them.
	I support them.
	We need great humans in that system still.
	But it doesn't mean...
	We have to support the system itself.
	I always want to make that clear.
	Yeah.
	It is, as you were talking, it's just bringing back memories of my childhood and growing up.
	And exactly that, like telling people, oh yeah, you know, people here in Hawaii, when you ask people, where did you go to school?
	They're not asking about college.
	They're asking about where you went to high school.
	It's kind of, because that's the icebreaker often, because once you say like, oh, I went here, I went there.
	It's like, oh yeah, I know your cousin, or my cousin this, or your classmate this, that, right?
	It's like the common icebreaker.
	And for so long, People say, oh, where'd you go to school?
	I was like, I was homeschooled.
	They're like, oh.
	How do we talk to you?
	Yeah, exactly.
	Like, what do we have in common?
	Yeah, shoot.
	Like, did you have friends?
	Like, did you have friends growing up?
	Or what?
	Like, I was somehow some, like, harmed child who went through this.
	And it always made me kind of laugh because, you know, as I was thinking about, you know, You know, I graduated through a correspondence course that I did at home and went to, in Hawaii, I don't even know if this is still the rule now, but back then, you know, we had to go either turn in standardized tests every so often just so the school could track like, okay, you are actually getting some kind of education.
	And as I was approaching the end of high school and I took the SATs and went in and saw like the high school college counselor just to learn and see like, okay, like what options do I have and this and that.
	She looked in particular at my, I guess, whatever the reading, the English reading, writing portion of the SAT. And she was just blown away.
	She's like, you were homeschooled?
	She said, yeah.
	It's like, how in the world is your score so high?
	It's like, I like to read.
	I read a lot of books.
	Yeah, right?
	She was just like mind blown.
	Yeah.
	Like the way all educated people from the past did.
	You may not agree with some of the principles of people like Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin.
	That's fine, but you're not going to argue that they were uneducated.
	And none of them went to school.
	That's what I'm talking about with the cult mentality.
	We're saying that this has to happen before the education is there.
	It's like saying, if you've never been to a doctor, there's no way you can be healthy.
	If you've never been to church, there's no way you can know God.
	None of those things are true.
	So it's a subservience to a system that we've been trained to bow down to.
	And unfortunately, when you start to do a little bit of a deep dive into why did that system come to be anyways?
	And if you really start to apply any amount of logic, well, if you've got 90 some odd percent of our population that's gone through it, would you argue that we have a well-educated populace?
	Okay, well, why?
	And it's not just school's fault.
	It's a multifaceted issue.
	But you would still think if it was the answer, we would have a better outcome now.
	There's all these holes that you can poke in it.
	And I bring families down the logical train, depending on where they're coming from.
	And they're, yes, yep, you bet, you bet.
	And it's like, okay, are you ready to home educate or find an alternative?
	And it's like, oh, but grade level.
	But it's that emotional attachment.
	You know, to that cult mentality of school.
	So it's amazing how ingrained it is.
	It is.
	How did you come to this?
	You mentioned you were...
	What did you teach?
	You were a public school teacher?
	Was that first?
	Is that what you wanted to do?
	I wasn't so...
	I came to this.
	I always tell people I actually came to it starting at four years old.
	So I went into kindergarten at four.
	And I remember sitting as a four-year-old as they grouped us together.
	And I looked and I went, okay, well, they think that group needs the most help with reading.
	They think this group needs a little bit less than them.
	And they think we're the best readers.
	I get the game.
	I remember figuring that out early.
	So I got straight A's all through school.
	And it's not because I'm wildly intelligent.
	It's because I understood the game.
	And so it really started there because I started seeing the game and I started seeing, okay, I was really good at school.
	Maybe I've got to make this a career because I don't see what else I'm good at.
	I'm good at playing school.
	So I ended up going to college.
	I ended up at Stanford University first.
	And so as I was at Stanford, I'm seeing the same thing.
	I'm watching all these young people who are way smarter than I am, and they're really, really good at school.
	But they were broken and they couldn't communicate and they were not emotionally resilient and they were struggling with so many things that I thought, well, gosh, what has their education done for them, you know, at this point?
	And that's where naively at the time I went, okay, well, you know, I'm going to start at the root of the problem.
	I'll go be a teacher.
	And that's where it's going to help.
	And so I was a public school teacher in California and ultimately a public school administrator.
	Wow.
	Making all of these moves, you know, naively thinking, okay, well, this is the next way that I can help.
	So public school teacher, public school admin, private school teacher, private school administrator, which is why I said, cool, I have to leave all of this and start my own thing because now I've got kids of my own and they're not going to any of these.
	That's powerful.
	And so what was the thing that you started?
	So I started a K-12, which we've now started almost 300 campuses around the globe.
	Wow.
	40-some-odd states, 20-some-odd countries.
	So I started a K-12 underneath the Acton Academy umbrella.
	And we started a K-12 campus that, you know, I can't say that it was a private school because it's not.
	It was a center for education.
	It was a center for education where young people were coming and they were taking on massive amounts of responsibility.
	They're learning to set their own trajectory in terms of academics.
	They're self-led, learner-led in that way.
	You walk into the kitchen and you find a chef who's there cooking real food every day and he's in high school.
	And he's hired middle school students to work for him as a sous chef.
	We've got young heroes that are making...
	Six figures while they're still in high school with the businesses that they are running.
	They're working internships and apprenticeships in fields that they're interested in.
	It is real life at hyperspeed.
	It's all transferable.
	And those are the kind of schools we're starting.
	What is, you know, I'm not a parent, but I would imagine if I were a parent and I had a school-aged child, I would imagine this kind of school would be in pretty high demand for people who want the best education for their kids.
	Are you finding that, that the demand is greater than the capacity of the schools?
	Are there barriers to entry?
	Or what does this look like for a parent who's listening and watching saying like, oh my gosh, How do we get involved?
	It's a good question.
	So there are barriers to entry.
	We do a massive filtering system at every campus because we want to have the conversation because people hear these stories.
	They hear the outcomes.
	They don't want the process that leads to the outcome, right?
	They just want the fancy thing all wrapped up at the end saying, here you go, mom and dad, good job.
	Exactly.
	I want the six-pack abs.
	I don't want the work that comes into it with the workouts and having to put the right stuff in my mouth and keep this other stuff out.
	That sucks.
	Where's the pill?
	They want the pill.
	So the reason that the demand isn't through the roof is because they don't want the pill of, we don't really care about academics.
	Yeah.
	They get it.
	There are academics involved there, but we don't really push it at all from us, from an adult standpoint, and we don't really even try to touch it until they're maybe in middle school.
	because hey by the way they'll go through an entire k-12 curriculum from an academic standpoint in three years when they're ready yeah without a teacher totally but parents are so scared of that yeah because their child might be seven not touching a bunch of academics and another seven year old the parents are like oh he's got his abcs and he's starting to do multiplication and the parents freak out.
	They don't want the actual developmental process that produces a better outcome because of one little step in the middle that they think, well, learning's not happening.
	Well, no, actually, that young person's starting a business.
	They're making the rules of engagement for Socratic conversations.
	They're holding each other accountable.
	They're actually responsible for cleaning their own studios.
	They're responsible for teaching other people.
	They're responsible...
	They're massively responsible.
	They're learning at a ridiculously high level.
	They're just not doing that.
	And therein lies the disconnect.
	That's the fear.
	Because I can't go tell my friend Tulsi, who's a parent, that my kid's doing the same thing as her kid, so now I feel like a bad parent.
	So I'd rather just put them back into the slave system because at least it'll be the same as everybody else.
	That's a powerful term, the slave system.
	And I don't ever shy away from that because that's what it is for.
	Yeah.
	Unfortunately.
	And again, not a knock on the teachers.
	It's what the system is for.
	Yeah, no, exactly.
	I've been a guest teacher in a high school classroom for a history class, and I've spent a lot of time with teachers over the last couple of decades.
	My father-in-law, he just retired from being a public high school teacher, taught at every level.
	And the thing that I could probably count on one hand, certainly could count on one hand, the number of teachers I met who were joyful.
	Agreed.
	And it's because they didn't like being a teacher.
	They chose to be a teacher following this passion in their heart to help care for children and to help grow amazing young people and to leaders.
	But almost every interaction I've had with these amazing people who chose to be teachers...
	Have been really depressing conversations about and the frustrations are, you know, I think I talked to one teacher whose main thing was like, I'm having difficulty with these kids and no discipline and so on and so forth.
	But a lot of the conversation...
	But even with that one, a lot of the conversation was like, I feel like my hands are tied behind my back.
	I cannot decide how and what I'm teaching these children.
	And all of these external pressures that really take the teaching away from being a teacher in these schools.
	And I have those conversations daily.
	This is seven days a week.
	I have teachers, administrators from all over the country and really all over the world that are reaching out and they're saying these exact same things.
	And there's so many of them that are heartbroken because like you said, they got into this altruistically.
	They love young people.
	They want to pour into young people and they're feeling handicapped and handicapped and handcuffed.
	Those are the things that I get the most.
	And so some of them have acquiesced and they're going, okay, well, I'm just going to ride it out.
	Because I'm 10 years away from retirement, right?
	But that's the energy they're also bringing into the schools every single day.
	And I always encourage them to be...
	I was creatively insubordinate as a teacher.
	And I got brought in by the superintendent of our district as a teacher.
	And he says, you're a conundrum for us.
	It's like, this is a...
	You don't listen.
	You're doing your own thing.
	You can't do your own thing.
	You have to listen to the boss.
	But also, you're the favorite teacher at that school by parents, by students, by the other teachers there.
	So you're really like, what do we do with you?
	And then I was that person as a site administrator, too.
	I was the creative subordinate.
	And you're not going to last long because the system won't let you last long.
	I think if you look at the California statistics, I want to say it is somewhere close to 50% of new teachers within three years leave the profession never to come back.
	50%!
	And it's not because they decided they hate children.
	It's not.
	There's no joy in this because it's exactly what we're talking about.
	And unfortunately, most private schools will do the same thing.
	They will repeat the same model.
	It's the same pig, different shade of lipstick.
	They'll repeat the exact same thing public schools are doing And just make you pay.
	Have better marketing.
	And have better marketing, yeah.
	And have a prettier gym.
	Or they'll say Jesus on campus.
	But let's not pretend that the same issues aren't taking place because they are.
	And again, it's getting away from real education.
	We're so focused on school.
	And that to me is even more of an atrocity than just, yes, there's the agendas that are playing out.
	You've got all the questioning of the genders and all this craziness that is playing out.
	Yes, that's a problem.
	But this system that is designed to make massively just obedient people who hand over that pen for somebody else to write their story for them and maybe make them a background actor in their own story for the rest of their life, that to me is the sneakiest part of the whole thing.
	Yeah.
	And to what purpose, right?
	To whose end?
	You know, who then, if that's the case, then who is the hero of that story, right?
	And that's where I think about as you talk about even private schools.
	And we're talking about outcomes, thinking like, okay, well, we've got some fancy private schools here in our state, as every state does, and what are the most often cited positive outcomes of those very fancy, expensive schools is, oh, well, they're feeder schools into the Ivy Leagues.
	That is the singular outcome, right?
	Because, well, that, of course, is going to be the key to their success, because if they go to this special school, then they can go to that next special school that's even more expensive.
	And again, to what end?
	Okay, so you get to rub shoulders with more fancy people, and then maybe you get a fancy job at the end of it, and then what?
	Okay, so then you can be this empty shell of a human chasing dollar signs or titles, but what value do you have in your life?
	What meaning do you have in your life?
	To what end is this all leading to?
	That's right.
	Then you die?
	And then what?
	You know what I mean?
	Right.
	And that's the whole point.
	When I say education should be for freedom and sovereignty, that's not just...
	A platitude.
	That should be for emotional sovereignty, for relational sovereignty, for financial sovereignty.
	You've got this peace of mind.
	I know so many people, as do you, as do a lot of the people listening that have gotten that Ivy League education.
	Maybe they do make good money.
	Maybe they did get a good job.
	But they are miserable.
	But marriages are failing.
	But their relationships with their kids are not there.
	But they don't love their work.
	They're not living for a purpose.
	They're not physically healthy.
	They're not emotionally, spiritually healthy.
	So did school happen to them?
	How did that not help?
	That's a problem.
	Yeah.
	That's a problem.
	The sovereignty in those regards are just not there.
	And then, of course, we can cite people that have done really well in school and done really well in life, but I always argue that it's in spite of, not necessarily because of, it's rarely because of Yeah.
	So I was a little bit of a, I was a little bit of, well, very much an independent thinker and a little bit of a rebel, even as a kid growing up.
	I, you know, and I, you know, now that I'm thinking about it, I don't know exactly what it was that made me intrinsically know that college was a racket.
	I knew, right, like, I immediately knew, like, there's no way...
	Well, first of all, I guess, you know, again, I'll point to my parents.
	For all five of us kids in our family, we have three older brothers and younger sister.
	They basically said, like, it's your life, your decisions.
	You live with the consequences of those decisions, whether they be good consequences or negative ones.
	Just know that, like...
	You will not experience true success and true happiness in your life unless you dedicate whatever it is you choose to do in service to God and others.
	And they said, if you want to go to college, that's fine.
	Figure out how you're going to pay for it.
	It's like, okay.
	And so already, it was not like they were not encouraging or discouraging.
	They were like, you've got to weigh the pros and cons.
	Look at the options.
	What is it that you want to learn?
	What skill do you want to develop?
	And so for me, as I was looking at, you know, okay, I'm done with high school, you know, I love school, I love learning, and I was looking at different things, immediately I knew, number one, I ain't going to go into debt for this at all.
	So I am not going to sign up for anything that I can't afford, because I don't want to live under the thumb of that weight.
	And secondly, like, what is it that I really want to learn?
	And so I started out At a community college going through a TV and film production course, because that's what I was really interested in wanting to learn how to do.
	And a long story short, I ended up, I didn't earn my bachelor's degree until 2008. I don't know, eight, I think.
	And it was because I very directly was taking my own personal principled stand against the collegiate industrial complex.
	I was like, hey, this is a piece of paper.
	You want me to pay you a ton of money for a piece of paper, and what does it even mean?
	Because I start talking to people and looking at jobs and different opportunities.
	They're like, oh, but do you have a degree?
	I was like...
	In what?
	For what?
	Oh, but it can be in whatever.
	What do you mean it can be in whatever?
	So all you care about is this piece of paper.
	Exactly.
	And this very first thing started.
	It was 2002, and I was at this decision point in my life then.
	I was...
	21, and I was trying to decide, okay, I'd finished that course in the community college, and I went and helped my mom.
	My mom had run for Board of Education, and I did some nonprofit work.
	So I was like, okay, so this political thing I'm interested in because I'm very passionate about environmental issues and clean water, and I know that I can do some good.
	should I go to college and study political science and talk about it and learn quote unquote how to do it?
	Or at that time there was a there was an open state house seat.
	And I thought, well, I can either go talk about it or I can go do it.
	And I made the decision to go and do it.
	And I ran for office and I got asked that question a lot because I had to go and like, OK, like I had to go knock on thousands of people's doors or.
	I'd never taken public speaking, debate, total introvert, extremely, debilitatingly shy.
	And so all of the things that becoming a public servant, a public elected official required, I didn't know how to do any of them and I certainly was not good at it, but I knew my purpose and I knew and understood why.
	And I was confronted with this question over and over and over, like my political opponent at that time.
	He was like, hey, look, she's only 21 and she has no degree.
	That's literally what he put on his brochure as his criticism of me.
	She's 21 and she's got no degree.
	And I had the opportunity, as I was knocking on people's doors, going house to house, introducing myself to them, and often being asked, like, You're too young.
	And I said, too young for what?
	You know, don't you want, like, this is what I'm passionate about.
	This is what I want to do for this community.
	Don't you want someone who's young and bringing fresh ideas and new energy to that stagnant state capital and actually start to get some things done?
	And I ended up getting elected to that seat, still no college degree, and continued to be confronted with people like, oh, but, but, but, but, you don't have that piece of paper.
	I'm like, why?
	Why?
	And so anyway, there's a lot there, but it is.
	It absolutely is.
	There's the cult mentality.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	And by the way, 21, and again, that's part of the cultural shift and part of what we've done with school.
	How old were our founding fathers when they were going?
	Exactly.
	These were teenagers.
	They were 18, 19, 20, 21, 22. Right?
	They were young.
	The word teenager didn't even exist until 1944. Right?
	It didn't even exist until then.
	You were just expected to take on, you know, you had these rites of passage, you were expected to take on massive responsibility, and they did it, and they did it well.
	Our DNA hasn't changed in 80 years.
	Our expectations changed.
	We've lowered the bar for humanity, period.
	That's adults included.
	So then we've gone ahead and done the same thing for our young people, and we have given them this excuse called teenage years to tell them that they're not capable of anything.
	Well, I'll tell you what.
	When we have 16 and 17-year-old young heroes at our campuses who are getting six-figure jobs that are degree-required jobs before they even graduate, they're proving this wrong.
	There's multiple things that are completely wrong.
	Asinine with what we're talking about here.
	So when we're talking about education versus school, if you have access now to the internet, you have access to YouTube, you have access to a library, you have access to all information ever.
	We're the most informed population that's ever been.
	That's not our problem.
	We don't want to go after education because we're focused on this narrow scope of school, right?
	There's this guy, Sugata Mitra, and I don't know if you've ever seen his TED talk, but gosh, it was from 2008. Maybe it was a while ago, but he did this experiment.
	He called the hole in the wall experiment or school in the cloud experiment.
	Something hole in the wall, school in the cloud, something like that.
	And he dropped this computer into a third world country to almost like an ATM, almost like a kiosk kind of thing.
	And I had a computer, I had internet access.
	They had never seen a computer in that village ever.
	Never seen internet access.
	The young kids, eight, nine years old, within hours, they were recording themselves.
	They were singing songs back, right?
	They were figuring out how to do all of these things on the computer.
	So he upped the ante, put a college level course in English on the computer.
	And within a few months, these nine, 10, 11 year olds were able to pass a college level course in a language they'd never spoken because they had the desire to do it.
	So the human desire element, that's what we're missing.
	We're missing that drive, that passion, that purpose that you're talking about.
	It has nothing to do with age and it has nothing to do with getting some sort of arbitrary piece of paper.
	Yeah.
	It's something I've reflected on quite a bit now, especially over the last, I don't know, maybe for quite some time, but I feel like some of these questions are being asked now kind of in the mainstream media.
	You know, we're seeing the military recruitment numbers are way down.
	Somebody asked recently in the media, well, how do we inspire this generation of young people to want to serve as though it's their problem?
	And I just, you know, I was like, well, hey, we got to take a step back here and think about what kind of society are these young people coming up in?
	What are the institutions in our society, specifically the educational institutions that they spend, you know, most of their waking hours at, what are educational institutions telling them is important?
	What are we telling them will bring them fulfillment and happiness and joy?
	And is it any wonder, really, when you look at the fact that we have no real civics education anymore in schools, we have no emphasis placed on what does the Constitution and Bill of Rights really mean to us as Americans, what does it mean to be an American, and what actually makes you happy?
	You know what I mean?
	Whether through mentorship and education or just in practice.
	That was something that I'm so grateful to have actually experienced.
	Somebody could tell you this, right?
	But until you actually experience it and know it for yourself, like, hey, I'm happier when I'm doing things for other people than when I'm just trying to think about what's best for myself.
	Bingo.
	Exactly.
	So if I was to ask you if you were to grow up and you only had three or four foods and that's all you'd ever had, and I said, Tulsi, what's your favorite food?
	Well, what are you going to pick?
	to pick you're gonna pick out of one of those few foods right but if you've grown up getting cuisine from all these different areas you go to a buffet you've tried all you're actually making an informed decision at that point you're saying look I have tried this I've tried this I've tried that I've tried this and not only is this my favorite but actually if you bring a little bit of this flavor over here too and you kind of like you can create something unique and something special right well that's what we're missing for our young kids too And everybody's got to go to school and it's just the same subjects.
	There's this, you know, theoretical ladder of subjects that you got to take and all these different steps you have to take, but they're not actually experiencing anything.
	Is it any wonder that they come out and they have no idea who they are?
	They have no clue what they want to do.
	Yesterday they were 18 raising their hand to ask another human being if they could go to the bathroom.
	And that person had the power to say no.
	And now all of a sudden you're supposed to know who you are and what you're going to do in this world.
	It's ridiculous.
	You have no idea who you are because you haven't been given the opportunity.
	You know, you haven't been given the chance.
	And so that's why, you know, this big giant focus on education, it's why we build our schools and our mentorship programs allows them, we tell them, fire, aim, ready.
	You're going to take a step further.
	First, you're going to go experience something first.
	You're going to mess up and you're going to do some things right.
	And then you're going to allow those inputs to decide, okay, now I'm going to aim and now I'm going to walk forward.
	And you're going to continue to do that because at the end of that, you're going to know who you are.
	You're going to know what you have to offer the world.
	You're going to know what you like, what you dislike, what you're good at, what you're not good at, and you can actually make an informed decision.
	And by the way, that's what employers want too.
	They want young heroes that are like that.
	Even a lot of these, you know, and I get to speak to these fortune 500 companies around the world and they will tell me sometimes openly, sometimes behind closed doors, the whole college degree thing.
	A lot of times it's a filter and look as an employer, I get that.
	I get a hundred resumes on my desk and it's just a resume.
	I got to figure out a way to filter it somehow.
	And so sometimes that becomes the arbitrary thing.
	But if I know somebody and they go, hey, you've got to meet this person and they introduce me and that person, I see there's a character match, there's a values match, there's an ability there, there's a resilience there, there's a toughness, there's a...
	I'm going, hmm, okay, let me give this person a shot.
	And then they show me they have the skill set too.
	Man, it's a done deal.
	So we've got our young heroes showing organizations.
	They're not just sending in a resume.
	They're showing them, look, I can do the work.
	And our values do match.
	I know exactly who you guys are.
	Here's who I am.
	Here's evidence of that.
	And employers are picking them up left and right for those that want to be employed.
	And then other heroes, they know themselves well enough where they're like, no, I'm going to go carve my own path.
	Exactly.
	I'm going to bring my own business.
	When I tell people we have horses, Because my daughters bought the horses when they were nine and seven.
	Based on the money they made from their businesses.
	Wow.
	Then it's no longer, oh, that's cute that your kids run businesses.
	No, no, no.
	That's what they do.
	Algebra, they can't do it, but they'll look at a P&L. That's amazing.
	That's education.
	That is.
	Because that's always the question when we're looking at algebra.
	It's like, what the hell does this matter for?
	For what?
	And it will matter.
	Some people that use it will come, oh, I use it for my job.
	Cool.
	1% of the 1% of the 1%.
	And for you, you need it.
	Awesome.
	Great.
	So it's there.
	Go get it.
	That's fantastic.
	And by the way, if somebody really is hell-bent on going into those fields, they're usually going to be excited about the prospect of that.
	I've had 11-year-olds on our campus doing trigonometry because they really were wired that way and they wanted to go into that field.
	Awesome.
	Go get it.
	Right.
	But it doesn't mean that's everybody, and that's the thing.
	Education, if it's really truly personal, then why is everybody doing the same thing?
	If everybody was on the same medication or had to eat the same food or had to be the same religion or had to be, we would all be up in arms, but we make all our kids do the same damn thing at the same time and we call that education?
	It doesn't make sense.
	It doesn't.
	So the schools, your schools, It's hard to imagine, for those who have gone through a quote-unquote traditional school system, it's hard to imagine what the day-to-day looks like.
	What does education look like in your school?
	Yeah, that's a great question.
	So you've got the students are separated into what we call studios.
	And so that's kind of a mixed age group.
	And that's who they're going to spend the primary amount of time with during the day.
	But they're going to see everybody.
	You're talking about five years old to 18 years old, and they all know each other.
	There's a relationship there.
	So we intentionally keep our campuses to right around 150, 160 because there's a social aspect to that where you go too much higher than that.
	You don't know everybody.
	I love watching my son when he was five on campus going, hey, what's up, Blaze?
	And Blaze is 18 and they're fist bumping and walking by because they know each other.
	But you organize in these smaller units and you're going to start out your day with...
	First of all, getting in a circle, standing up and going, hey, Tulsi, good morning.
	Nice to see you.
	You're going to look each other in the eye.
	You're going to shake hands.
	They're going to go around.
	They're going to say good morning to each other.
	We're getting back to some of those just human values.
	I swear, I'll bring people in.
	And all of our heroes are walking up.
	They're introducing themselves.
	They're looking people in the eye.
	They're shaking hands.
	And it's like, people are like, what is going on?
	You would have thought I've just introduced them to Jesus just because it's a kid shaking their hands.
	So they start the day out with that.
	And then they'll get into a Socratic conversation.
	They'll get into some sort of what we call our launch.
	And they've got rules of engagement of what a good conversation looks like.
	What are the components?
	So that the material they talk about can really be anything because they understand how to have a good conversation.
	They understand what civil discourse looks like.
	They understand how to articulate their side, how to listen to somebody else who might have a different point of view than them.
	Weigh the evidence back and forth, and even at the end of the day, if they decide, well, we disagree on this, they understand how to do so and still find the other things they agree on, right?
	Civil discourse, right?
	The things adults can't do.
	Sadly.
	So they start the day out with that, and it'll be a Socratic conversation around something.
	They might watch a TED Talk that spurs on the conversation, whatever that looks like there.
	Then they'll break off, and they'll usually handle their academic stuff in the morning.
	But when I say handle academic stuff, it is self-directed.
	And what that means is they are learning to set their own goals.
	By the end of today, I want to get this done.
	It's not subject-based.
	It is, I want to learn about this.
	I want to accomplish this.
	I might be using any number of resources to do that.
	And they've got a very specific plan to themselves so they can go as fast as they want, take as much time as they want.
	They're only competing against the version of themselves from yesterday.
	They've got other heroes in there that they're able to lean on to bring over to Tudor.
	They've got older heroes that come in to help.
	The older heroes are able to go outside and get apprenticeship internships, but they're able to also bring in mentors to help them with their academics.
	It is very much like life.
	Find somebody to help you if you need help, but get after it if you can get after it.
	So they get that done in the morning.
	The afternoons are more project-based.
	And so that's where we're exposing them to a massive amount of things.
	So they might have...
	We might go, okay, you have...
	Six weeks.
	At the end of this six weeks, we're going to bring all the parents in and we're going to bring the community in.
	And you guys have to have a city that you've all worked together to develop.
	There has to be some that's built out of Lego, some that's built out of hammer and wood and nails.
	Some of it's got to be out of cardboard.
	Some of it has to be 3D printed.
	It all has to go together and you're going to run electricity to the entire thing.
	And we're going to bring the families in and we're going to flip the switch and And we're going to see what happens and see if electricity lights up.
	We're going to give them the end result and then they're going to go forward and take on little mini projects and challenges that are going to scaffold in to the biggest result.
	And they're inspired about it.
	Like they're excited about it, even if they have no desire to do that.
	Long term, this is a really cool project.
	This is a really neat thing.
	It's real learning.
	They're having to collaborate.
	They're having to work together to solve interesting problems.
	So they might do that for six weeks and have to reflect on, did it work?
	Did it not?
	And then the next six weeks, they might have to write, produce, sell tickets to, and have an entire play that they put on for the community.
	Some people have to build the set, some have to build the props, some have to make the costumes, some have to act, some have to direct, some have to record, some have to sell tickets, and they have to come together as an organization to do that, all while starting their own businesses or doing the internships and apprenticeships and having jobs on campus.
	When you have a young person that has experience collaborating around so many projects like that, That transfer directly to real life, to the workforce, and they know the projects they loved and what parts of it they loved and what they were good at.
	Versus somebody who did the exact same class as everybody else, just learned how to play the game of school.
	Who do you want in your organization?
	It's not even close.
	It's not even fair.
	It makes me sad for kids in conveyor belt schools.
	Yeah.
	I'm curious.
	What's an example, and I'm sure you've got many, but what's an example of a business that a 12-year-old, for example, has started in your school?
	Sure.
	Unfortunately, I do have many.
	So I only want to make sure I give credit to where credit is due.
	But we've had...
	We had girls that created a digital cookbook from other young students all over the world, and they sold that.
	They sold $50,000, $60,000 worth of cookbooks over a couple different years.
	We've had students who have started their own fashion lines and have gone on to work for Donna Karan.
	We've had students who have started What are those things?
	Bago?
	Like the cornhole?
	Oh yeah.
	A young man who started a custom cornhole product and custom cornhole business and he started selling it to hotels all up and down the state of California and it turned it into a business that he ended up selling to other young people.
	I mean, you name it.
	So creative.
	Yeah.
	And there is no cap, there is no limit for these young people.
	We just have to remind them of that.
	So you mentioned there's a rigorous selection process, for lack of a better term, for kids and families who go to your schools.
	What is that?
	And what are you looking for?
	And what are disqualifiers?
	Yeah, that's a great question.
	We very much take an unselling approach.
	We very much take a, here's why you don't want to be here.
	Because we don't care about academics.
	They will get it, but we're not going to care about it We're not going to put it on a pedestal.
	They're not really going to touch pushing hardcore on anything academically until really learn about middle school, because developmentally, that's when they're going to be ready.
	They're going to read a ton.
	They're going to collaborate.
	They're going to work a lot.
	They're just not going to touch these academics until later.
	And that's probably why you don't want to come.
	We're not going to ever talk about college readiness.
	The paradox is all of our kids are going to get into college if they want to easily.
	It's an easy game to play and we know how to play it, but we're never once going to tell them that college is the end-all be-all or should be a goal at all.
	So that's probably why you don't want to come here.
	We want to make all of those things abundantly clear, and we want the parents that are going, yes, I need this, I need this, I need this.
	We're not going to shut down if the state says everybody's got to wear masks and you've got to shut down schools.
	We're not going to enforce masks, and we're not going to shut down.
	I'll try to throw every single bit at them right there, and it's the parents that come through and they're like, yes.
	This is it.
	This is what I want.
	Let's go.
	And then we'll let the young hero come shadow.
	We want to see that young person in action because we want to make sure there's character there too.
	And by that, you know, we've had some students that have come in and they look phenomenal.
	They, yes ma'am, yes sir, they're doing all the right things.
	heroes come to us later and they're like yeah by the way when you guys leave the room it's like F you F you and they're kicking right that's that's not gonna happen either if you're a jerk you don't get to come to the school too so we want to know that there's character in the home as well and that's the final stage is the interview if the shadow went well the unselling the parents were like nope we're on board then we'll do a family interview we just want to see how they interact and it's nothing we're not trying to trip them up we're not We just want to see, is there love?
	Is there respect?
	Is there honor?
	Is there value?
	Is there character that's shining through?
	That's it.
	As long as that's there, we're ready to rock and roll.
	That's beautiful.
	What do your critics say about this method of education?
	The critics say that students can't be learner-led.
	That's it.
	And it's the critics are only coming out of academia.
	The critics say it's dangerous to not have the adult pouring into...
	Dictating.
	Dictating and pouring into the younger...
	And it's always out of fear.
	But that's really the only story they can try to sell because we have too many success stories at this point.
	We have too many parents who are launching more and more of these schools.
	We have too many young heroes who are coming out and doing anything and everything they want to do and they're wildly happy and at peace because of it.
	That's really it.
	They can't say anything.
	Yeah.
	I was sent a video of, recently, it was a feature story that was done on a school in Los Angeles.
	I've got to find the name of it.
	You may already be familiar with it.
	They have these different programs called Youth Challenge across the country.
	This was similar, but not part of the Youth Challenge Academy, but similar in the sense of these were all kids who came to this school because they came from really difficult environments, whether it be at home or in their neighborhood.
	And frankly, they were not on a good path themselves.
	The school is actually a public school in the LA school system, but it is run in a militaristic kind of discipline-heavy environment.
	The thing that's different about this school than your normal, like, okay, this is a boot camp environment, you have drill sergeants, is that it is student-led.
	Exactly what you're talking about.
	Yeah.
	So the kids, they are setting the entire schedule for the school.
	As you said, they're in the kitchen.
	They're managing the cleaning.
	Every single aspect of every single thing that happens in their day is led by these students.
	And in the interviews with these kids, they were incredibly professional, so cool, so collected, completely in command, and kind, and caring for each other, understanding the importance of mentorship.
	And hugely successful from a true educational standpoint.
	Nothing but opportunity before them.
	It's not this issue like, okay, well I gotta go enlist in the military because I have no other options.
	Like, no, man.
	Like, I would hire any one of these kids in a heartbeat.
	Because of that maturity and sense of meaning and value and responsibility and service that they were already living as they were going.
	I think it was certainly high school.
	It may have been middle school as well, but I was just blown away.
	See, and that's fantastic.
	So we talk about all these anti-bullying programs, right?
	They're clearly not working.
	Well, it's because the system itself is designed to create those false social hierarchies within it, right?
	Yeah.
	When you're talking about a system where you have other human beings, again, who tell you when you can go to the bathroom, when you can't, when you can speak, when you can't, stand in a straight line, keep your mouth closed, you won't speak until you raise your hand and I tell you you're allowed to speak.
	You're only allowed to hang out with people on the same date of manufacture as you.
	You automatically have to revere anybody older.
	You automatically look down on somebody younger.
	It doesn't matter how Mm-hmm.
	That's the only one.
	And so what happens in prison?
	Because the inmates don't have a voice there either.
	And I'm not advocating that the inmates have a voice.
	What I'm saying is they don't have a voice.
	So how do they exhibit their voice?
	Well, they group up on the yard and they pick an enemy because you have to figure out a social hierarchy because you have to have somebody that you can oppress because that's how you're going to at least get some sort of status.
	You're going to get some sort of voice.
	Well, bullying happens because of the exact same thing.
	You've got all these kids.
	We're not getting to the root issue.
	And then we're putting them in a system where people can tell them they care, but all the actions around it don't actually look like that.
	So when you go to our campuses, are there...
	It's not a panacea.
	That would be just as dangerous, right?
	So are there issues?
	Of course, there's issues.
	You've been talking about kids and they're trying to collaborate around big...
	They're humans, right?
	So they're trying to collaborate around big...
	So yeah, they're gonna argue, but there's no bullying.
	That doesn't exist because they all know they have a voice and their opinion matters.
	And they're given agency over their own life.
	We are telling them, look, we are going to open door after door after door, and we're not going to beat you, throw you, yank you to walk through those.
	You've got to make the choice to walk through.
	And when they've made that choice, they've got a piece there.
	That we don't have bullying on our campuses for that very reason.
	I believe it.
	And I'm sure that's how it is for those young people, too.
	And one of the things we were talking about, too, is earlier in talking about how the funding works.
	We talk a lot about mental health for our young students, too.
	But one of the things we've eradicated is the physical side of things for our young people.
	You go back and you look at La Sierra High School from 1962. JFK made a point To talk about this school and talk about how this should be the program for the rest of America for physical education.
	You go back and you watch clips from that and highlights from that and you can go look.
	Anybody can look up the La Sierra High School Physical Fitness Program.
	You can look up the PDF and all the standards that they had.
	And they had physical fitness standards for these young men that 99% of military operators right now could not hit.
	Wow.
	It was just the standard.
	And you came in and you had white shorts and you had a certain standard you had to hit.
	And if you didn't hit it, you stayed as a white short.
	If you hit this, okay, now you're a red short.
	But the next level up to get your gold shorts, right, was another level.
	And then the ultimate was, you know, you had the blue and then you had the ultimate was the navy blue.
	And they didn't want, okay, well, that's not fair.
	It's not fair to these kids.
	Nope.
	That was just the standard you had to hit.
	And in all the years of the program, they only had two students that never got out of the white.
	They all were so ridiculously physically fit.
	And you talk to them now, and it wasn't just about the physical fitness.
	They talked about the camaraderie that was built.
	They talked about the confidence that was built.
	They talked about the fact that there was no bullying on campus because everybody had that physical outlet.
	They had confidence in themselves, and they didn't have to treat anybody else poorly.
	They understood the correlation between physical health and mental health.
	Yes.
	I, you know, we need to stop saying we care about the mental health of our young people in this country if we don't lead with the physical side of that.
	If we're going to feed them prison food and not let them actually get any kind of exercise, we have got to stop saying that we care about their mental health because the actions aren't showing it.
	Right.
	And how do they deal with the mental health that they claim to be so concerned about?
	Drugs.
	Right?
	From as young an age as possible.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	Especially for our young men.
	And especially for our young men.
	Oh, I'm sorry, Mom and Dad.
	Your five-year-old must have a methamphetamine deficiency.
	So we're going to go ahead and get them hooked up right now.
	And that's the real gateway.
	Those pharmaceuticals, the early methamphetamine, the early Ritalin and the Adderall, those are the real gateway drugs.
	Those are the young people that stay on those kind of things and in the pharmaceutical system for the rest of their lives.
	Which is what Big Pharma is counting on.
	Yes, ma'am.
	We're breaking them early and making lifelong customers.
	Exactly.
	Travesty.
	Sigh.
	Physical health, spiritual health, emotional health, the mental health, these are all things that it seems we hear a lot of noise about, right?
	It's like, oh my gosh, we have skyrocketing obesity, and healthcare costs are blowing through the roof, and all of these things, and yet we don't have people who are in positions of power and And decision-making and influence who are connecting the dots and correlating the cause with the outcome, the cause with the problem, and therefore then how do we solve it?
	There's so many examples that I could cite from my eight years in Congress, but I remember one of the first that was...
	A shock to me was passing the big farm bill every year.
	It's the big agriculture bill, but it also deals with school nutrition and funding for school lunches and whatnot and nutritional standards and all of these different things.
	And I remember there was an amendment that came through that bill that had to do with the amount of fruit and vegetables that are required to be served in schools to kids every day in public schools.
	And there was an amendment that came through that said frozen pizza meets the fruit and vegetable requirement.
	And they had to include that in congressional legislation because whatever the concoction of tomato sauce that was on that frozen pizza, that mattered.
	That met the nutritional standard.
	Tulsi, ketchup meets that standard.
	Right.
	Freaking ketchup.
	Right.
	The corn syrup-based thing because there's an element of tomato in there.
	I was going to say, sugar probably comes first.
	I don't keep ketchup in my house because of that reason.
	Absolutely.
	But I'm pretty sure sugar or corn syrup comes before tomatoes in that ingredient list.
	I am an ingredient list reader.
	The first ingredient means there's more of that than anything else that comes after.
	That's it.
	That's baseline knowledge.
	Yes.
	That's exactly it.
	It's baseline knowledge, Matt.
	But I know a lot of people who don't read ingredients.
	They don't read ingredients.
	And again, like...
	Sorry to butt in, but these are things I take for granted because my parents, they had a healthy family-style deli.
	We all grew up working in a family restaurant and learning about what are you eating?
	What's actually going on in your body?
	It was something that I grew up with, but I also have a lot of friends who they just don't.
	It's just not something they do.
	I know of one person in particular.
	Like, oh yeah, okay, you should eat salad every day.
	Like, oh yeah, I eat salad every day.
	I eat macaroni salad every day.
	Like, oh, buddy.
	It's not the same.
	But it wasn't even a joke, though.
	It wasn't a joke.
	Like, he legitimately thought, like, okay, yeah, sure, I eat salad every day.
	Yeah.
	There's, like, crunchy things in the macaroni salad.
	What's the big deal?
	And that's where, again, like, my gosh, like, we really have a lot of What does it go back to?
	The whole topic of our conversation.
	Bingo.
	Education.
	Bingo.
	Where do kids, you know, the first meals kids are eating outside of the home are in the classroom.
	That's right.
	That's exactly right.
	And those kids grow up to be parents, many of them.
	And those kids grow up to be parents, and those parents then repeat the cycle.
	You know, I always...
	This is what I ate when I was a kid.
	This is what you're going to eat.
	This is what I ate when I was a kid, and I went to school when I was a kid, and I turned out fine.
	Yep.
	Yep.
	First of all, fine sucks.
	Forget fine.
	I said, hey, Tulsi, how's your marriage?
	And you went, that's fine.
	That doesn't sound good.
	Not great.
	That doesn't sound good.
	Not a good indicator.
	Bingo.
	Right?
	So fine sucks.
	I don't want fine.
	I don't want fine for my life.
	I don't want it for my wife.
	I do not want it for my kids.
	I want thriving.
	That's right.
	I want excited.
	I want purpose-filled.
	I want adventure, man.
	I want that.
	And by the way, so does everybody else.
	That's what we want, right?
	So the whole...
	I went to school...
	I use the example of training elephants.
	And I don't know if you've...
	But how they train elephants is, you know, they take the young elephant, right?
	And you tie the rope around the leg and you tie them to the stake.
	And so they can't physically pull away at that point.
	And they want to because their nature is freedom.
	They want to break away.
	They're like, this is not okay.
	I should not be tied to this one location.
	And they'll fight and they'll fight and they'll fight.
	And eventually they'll give up because they realize they can't do it, right?
	But the real travesty is...
	Later on in life, you can take that full-grown, magnificent beast and you put that tiny little rope back around its leg and you tie it to the post.
	That elephant will just acquiesce right from the get-go.
	I just can't leave.
	Apparently, this is where I'm stuck.
	Wow.
	And that is what we have done to our adults now.
	They have these metaphorical ropes tied around their legs and they don't believe they can achieve anything more.
	And the travesty is they then have their own kids and they go, come here.
	Let me tie this rope around your leg for you.
	We've been convinced to do it to our own kids till we send them right back into the same things that we've always done.
	We send them right back into this schooling system that left us feeling inadequate in terms of being able to educate our own kids.
	So we send them right back into that same system that left us feeling inadequate.
	Isn't that ridiculous?
	We just perpetuate the cycle.
	And again, that's where that, you know, when I say that's that cult mentality.
	So that's, we're trying to break people.
	And I just want people to understand there's options.
	Because people really don't know, like your friend with the macaroni salad, right?
	People really don't know that you don't have to go to school.
	You don't have to go to school.
	You have to be educated.
	You don't have to go to school.
	You can home educate.
	And it's actually not that difficult.
	But by the way, it does mean mom and dad, you're going to need to lead by example.
	You're going to need to.
	The best way to perpetuate their education is for you to continue to grow your own.
	So you're going to have to do some work there, but you're going to lead by example because they're going to do what you do before they do what you say anyways.
	So you might as well do the right thing.
	So you don't have to do it.
	You can home educate.
	Or there's options like these schools.
	You can go to these schools here.
	Or there's homeschool hybrid co-ops.
	Or you can connect with other people.
	There's a million different ways to do it.
	There's a million different ways.
	We've got families that use our outline for the Young Men's Mentorship Program that Tim and I developed.
	That is their primary home education thing is they go through that and these young guys are going through real educational experiences and then we're like, okay, and if you have more time and you want to sprinkle in Some Khan Academy and some Academia over here, then great.
	Sprinkle that in.
	But let's focus here on your education.
	And they're taking on these massive projects and challenges and meeting with mentors.
	They're meeting with the best of the best of the best in the world every single week.
	They're getting literal input from...
	You know, movie stars and military generals and billionaire CEOs and, I mean, quite literally the best men on the planet.
	And you know the number one reason parents don't sign up when they find out about it?
	Ah, school though.
	School gets in the way.
	It's like, man, you know, we've got to break people out and show them there's so many options.
	I think that most people, most people would agree that our education system in this country is at best certainly not successful, in reality is quite broken by almost any metric that you use to measure it by.
	It is January of 2025. There's a new administration in the White House.
	You get the phone call saying, Matt, your country needs you to serve as the Secretary of Education.
	What are your priorities?
	Hmm.
	That's a, you know, it's funny.
	So I got to, I had the pleasure of introducing Jo Jorgensen when she was having, when she was doing her Northern California tour.
	She said, Hey, can I actually, I want to do my speech at your, one of your campuses.
	So yeah, great.
	Come on, come on in.
	So she came in, I introduced her, we went out to dinner later and I got to meet with her and talk with her.
	So she posed a very similar type question.
	And the only thing I could think of at the time was I said, well, Joe, what you're asking me right now is to come in and to change the Vatican.
	It's the only thing I could think of because it's the only thing I could think of that was a system that was that deep-rooted and that ingrained and that far-reaching and that had gone to the hearts and minds of people so deeply, right?
	I need to, if I really want to do a good job in that position, I need to make myself completely irrelevant.
	I need to get myself out of a job and I need to destroy this entire thing.
	We need to build learner-led centers.
	The problem is teaching as we know it now becomes irrelevant.
	It becomes a new...
	It's...
	Completely gone.
	Because from the standpoint of education, a good educator is going to make himself irrelevant so that the learner can take things over.
	Think about it from a parenting standpoint.
	I don't want my kids living with me when they're 40 years old.
	I love them.
	They're fantastic.
	But I don't want them living here.
	I want them to be able to be self-sufficient and be on their own.
	I want to still have that relationship, but I want them gone.
	I haven't done a good job as a parent if they need me at 40. A doctor hasn't done a good job as a doctor if they need you to maintain physical health.
	Right?
	So from a systemic standpoint, we have got to build something that gets all of the adults ultimately out of the way, or I should say minimizes the adults.
	So it would literally be a brand new It would be a brand new system.
	We would turn every single school into a self-directed community over the course of a few years, and that would go with parent training around that too.
	We would talk about why we're here.
	We would talk about, I disagree that the system is broken.
	I think it's perfect.
	It's doing exactly what it was meant to do.
	Perfectly.
	It is breaking down society.
	It is breaking down the spirits of young people.
	That's exactly what it's designed to do.
	And it's doing a great job.
	So it would have to be destroyed altogether, completely transformed.
	And what would be the intent?
	What's the intent?
	If that's what you're saying, it's designed to do, what's the intent of creating broken people?
	So Rockefeller, when he put what was the equivalent of like $1.2 billion into the system, as we brought this over from a Prussian military system, he says, I want a nation of workers, not a nation of thinkers.
	Hmm.
	That's the intent.
	You get a nation of people who are blindly obedient.
	You get a nation of people who have given up their sovereignty, who feel like they have always got an answer to somebody.
	And they're just looking for who that authority is.
	And they're looking to be taken care of by that authority.
	That's the intent of the system.
	And so that's what I would need to demolish it.
	It wouldn't look anything like it does now.
	We'd have to get rid of 90% of the adults.
	We'd have to turn everything learner-led.
	We'd have to go in a hardcore transformation over the course of a few years and then let the students run with it after that.
	But it would have to come with the parent education on the side too.
	We'd have to retrain the minds.
	It's a pipe dream that'll never happen.
	I guess, first, before I ask you that question, you talk about the need to get the parents also involved in training and education.
	I think this has been one of the alarming things that we've seen happening.
	at least in broad daylight over the last few years.
	I know it's been happening, maybe just not quite as loudly, but with the Terry McAuliffe governor's race in Virginia, and we've heard it from different union leaders and different politicians, different people in the media, basically saying that parents, you're not equipped or qualified to raise your own kids. you're not equipped or qualified to raise your own kids.
	So So the state will do it.
	The school will do it.
	The media will do it.
	Society will do it.
	The community will do it.
	just completely emasculating parents from this core responsibility that parents have when choosing to have a child.
	And we're seeing this now in legislation that is being passed in different states that is taking away a parent's right to protect their child's health, specifically when it comes to these child mutilation surgeries in the name of gender affirmation,
	affirmation, so-called gender affirmation that parents are being threatened and their power is being taken away from being able to say, no, I will not allow my child to be disfigured.
	Why do we still go into an organization that would allow for that to happen?
	Yeah.
	Why?
	Why?
	I get these.
	We have 11 rules in our house.
	One of the rules is no complaining.
	Fix it.
	If it is something worth complaining about, then it is something that you have a duty to Have a duty to find a solution for.
	Now, I'm all for parents going and voicing their opposition to this.
	I want them to do that because there are still good people in that system.
	There are young heroes who are also there who will never get to leave.
	And there are young heroes who the best humans they ever see are the good people who are in that system.
	So look, I don't want that to go away.
	I want good people to still be there.
	And I applaud parents fighting.
	But once you understand that you have the option Not to engage with that in terms of putting your child into it.
	You need to sacrifice whatever you need to sacrifice in order to make that happen.
	I don't understand.
	Why you wouldn't do that for your own child.
	Because that...
	Listen, all of this talk, all of the gender affirmation surgery, all this...
	Again, Rockefeller said this.
	It was a Prussian system that was brought over.
	It was designed to break the population.
	It was designed to create obedient citizens.
	And when you know that, you understand that that endgame...
	Isn't even fully developed yet, why would you go play?
	Malcolm X had it right.
	Like, I would never send my child to get, you know, indoctrinated by the enemy.
	Never.
	I wouldn't either.
	I don't know why so many parents are okay with that.
	I think sometimes they don't understand how bad it is.
	They don't understand that this train is going to keep rolling.
	But when you hear those kind of things, you can spend all of your energy fighting it or you can take that same amount of energy and build the solution, even if it's just for your own family.
	And that's what we're trying to provide.
	There's so many different options and I want to help parents.
	It doesn't have to be with us.
	I'll point them in whatever direction and just break them out of that cage.
	It breaks my heart.
	I think that's the question that I was going to ask.
	You said that completely breaking down this current system and rebuilding something new is what needs to be done, but you said it'll never happen.
	It'll happen in practice.
	It'll, like, there's the small pockets, right?
	The schools we're building are a solution.
	The schools, Prenda is building a solution.
	The fact that we now have over 5 million homeschool families in this country, right?
	Those are solutions.
	So those solutions are always there from a large-scale government-is-behind-it standpoint.
	That's what'll never happen.
	Do you think there should be a Department of Education?
	Hell no.
	Zero government.
	Does government have a role in education?
	Zero percent.
	That is a wildly education.
	All education is self-education.
	To assume that there is a one-size-fits-all, and again, all injustices that have gone on to be massive issues, it's for the greater good.
	It's always for the greater good, and this is supposed to always be for the greater good.
	No.
	All education is self-education.
	It is wildly personal.
	Government should have no part in that because what would happen is good people will step up and step into those roles.
	What's a big part of the issue for all of this?
	We've got a fatherless home issue.
	We have a massive fatherless home issue.
	We need to get fathers in the home.
	That'll shift a whole bunch of this.
	People would step up, step into those roles.
	We have men stepping into these roles to mentor the young men that we have in our program that don't have fathers.
	Good people would step up.
	Government should play no role.
	Where do parents turn now?
	Parents who recognize this problem, they're learning about it perhaps, including single-family, single-parent homes, whether that be a mom raising her kids or a dad raising his kids.
	Those who feel, and I hear this from a lot of people, is, gosh, I would love to raise my kids at home, but I have to work.
	I mean, I'd love to educate my kids at home, is what I meant to say, but I have to work and I can't afford to pay for a tutor and I can't afford to pay for a private school.
	I can't afford to do all of these things.
	What options are available to people who are in those circumstances?
	Yeah, we talk to a lot of those families and so I always tell them it's a two-pronged approach.
	You, as the parent, need to train yourself on the difference between school and education.
	Otherwise, if you don't eradicate that fear, it is still going to seep into what you do.
	So I turn people towards resources like John Taylor Gatto, G-A-T-T-O. Anything he ever wrote, he passed away a couple of years ago, but anything he ever wrote gives you more of a background.
	He's far more eloquent than I am and more articulate about the system itself.
	That we operate in, the why, how it came over, what was the intent behind the system in general.
	So I encourage them to dive into things like that, to John Holt, to Ivan Ilyich, some of these forefathers of real education so that they understand what that looks like simultaneously as they're doing that, because then they'll stop with the, okay, well, you have to have a teacher teaching certain subjects.
	You can understand how to integrate education into life.
	So then we start taking a look at other people in their general area, in their community that may want to band together.
	So we've got a lot of single parents who are banding together with other single parents, and then they're adjusting work schedules.
	So today I can stay home and I've got these heroes.
	Tomorrow, you know, I've got to go to work, but you're going to stay home, right?
	And so we're creating all of these small pods, right?
	All over the place.
	And what you're seeing is you're actually seeing a lot of churches that are now stepping up and opening up their doors during the day so that they can have these pods there in the churches as well.
	So the churches, I think, will play a large role in providing a space for a lot of these options to happen.
	So what we need is to get back to small community.
	We need to get back to community where people are going, how do I help you?
	How can you help me?
	And if we can get back to that where we're covering each other, Then we can get a little bit of breathing room and start to take a look at, okay, what does it mean to actually educate now?
	And how do we do that?
	For our single parents, that is the way to go.
	You know, and if you've got other resources and you can go to some of these schools that cost, great, man, go get it.
	If you can just home educate, you know, we've got programs to show you how to, like, all of that is great.
	But those are, that's where my heart goes to, are like those single moms.
	So we find a community.
	I'll tell you who else.
	It's not just the churches.
	Gyms.
	Jiu-Jitsu gyms and CrossFit gyms.
	Those are areas we're good because they utilize those gyms a lot of times for early morning classes or evening classes and a lot of times that space is open during the day.
	And so we are going to them and we are partnering with many of them so they're leaving that open during the day and Somebody within that jujitsu community, again, they're taking turns.
	I'll be here so that the kids can come and then we can focus on real education.
	There's a lot of different ways that we can do this, but just like that hole in the wall experiment, what's missing is the desire.
	We just need to relight that desire in people to do that.
	There's so many solutions.
	That's amazing.
	And it's just true.
	And it gets back to the heart of it is just creating that sense of community again.
	Unfortunately, it's been lost in a lot of places.
	And I think for us, even as a country, we need to take a step back farther.
	The lack of a unifying sense of principles and values and identity of what does it mean to be an American?
	What do we stand for, regardless of political party or status or education or skin, color, religion, ethnicity, all of the things.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	When you have that conversation with most people, too, you'll find most people are in line with that kind of thing.
	We can find more things that we're going to agree on than disagree with.
	We're just taught to take it from the stance of, what do you disagree with?
	And that's automatically your enemy.
	Right.
	Gosh, it's the worst.
	I was in a car, Dave Rubin, and I did an event together a couple years ago, and we were in a car, and we were driving, and we were just laughing at all of the differences we had.
	He's like, man, I'm a gay Jew.
	We just started listing all of these differences, but we go, man, but look at all the things we agree on.
	Look at all the places.
	That's what we come together around.
	At the end of the day, you probably don't agree on 100% of things 100% of the time with your husband.
	My wife and I don't.
	Most things, yes.
	But are there some things we disagree on?
	Of course.
	So what, do you just close up shop?
	No.
	You figure out a way to make it work.
	And that's true with the majority of people.
	We need to get back to talking about where we unify.
	Yes.
	Exactly, yeah.
	And understanding that it's the most important things that unify us.
	Yes, ma'am.
	It's the most important things.
	Yes, ma'am.
	I think this is the perfect note to close our conversation with because it is the most important.
	There are a lot of challenges that we face as people in this country, undoubtedly.
	We will have different ideas on how to tackle those challenges, on how to solve those problems.
	But the precursor to all of that is most, most, most, most importantly, is recognizing that we're all God's children.
	We're all connected.
	We're all family in that sense.
	We treat each other with respect.
	Then, yes, as Americans, what is it that we stand for as a country?
	founders, those who would be now considered millennials, those young founders put down in paper about our God-given rights and freedoms enshrined in our constitution.
	What does that actually mean in practice in our everyday lives?
	And we stand together on these grounds, on these common grounds.
	Then it's nothing but opportunity that lies ahead for us.
	That's right.
	And then we won't need a department of anything.
	We'll have unified around those principles.
	That's it.
	And it starts at home.
	It starts with the individual nuclear family.
	Starts with leading right there, finding that unity right there, and then going and spreading that in the community.
	That's exactly what we're hoping to do, and it's exactly what I think you do with so much of your work, too, so I thank you for that.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Yeah, I'm fascinated by...
	The way that you're tackling this and the way that you're communicating both the problem and the solution when it comes to school versus education and obviously how we are able to talk about these problems, it matters.
	It matters, especially when taking on your comparison of the Department of Education with the Vatican, I think, was very...
	From an institutional perspective.
	From an institutional perspective.
	Yes, ma'am.
	It's a pretty stark comparison.
	Yes, ma'am.
	Yeah, for better or for worse.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Thank you.
	I appreciate your time, Matt.
	Let people know where they can find out more about you and the work that you're doing.
	I appreciate that.
	You know, I'm always willing to help people one-on-one, and I mean that.
	And anybody that sends me, you know, DMs or messages, they'll attest to that.
	So shoot me an email.
	It's just matt at apogeestrong, A-P-O-G-E-E strong.com.
	If I can help in any way, please Allow me to do that.
	Check out what we're doing at ApogeeStrong.com.
	Check out what Tim and I are doing through the Apogee Strong Foundation.
	Any of those places are great to get information, but I encourage people, email me directly.
	I will help you, and it doesn't have anything to do with us.
	I'll just help you for you, because again, education is personal.
	Boom.
	Powerful.
	You're awesome.
	You are awesome.
	You're awesome, my friend.
	So much fun, man.
	So much fun.
	Oh, this is, my wife says, she's like, you're not going to sleep tonight, huh?
	I said, no, I don't think so.
	We have any of these conversations at night, man.
	This is just, this is my, this is my heart.
	So thank you for shining so much light on this.
	You know, it's an important thing, man.
	Well, you're a brave person.
	You're a strong person, clearly.
	And firmly rooted in your own foundation.
	And that really comes through.
	Thank you.
	I look forward to...
	The Tucker thing didn't obviously work out this last time.
	It's a little bit of a different thing.
	But I'll continue to look for opportunities just to highlight the work you're doing in your message because more people need to hear it.
	Anytime.
	No, I appreciate that greatly.
	And then, you know, like I was telling you, With John and I on the Warrior Poet Society with the symposium.
	We've got a number of conversations we want to have this year.
	And Dave Rubin already said he would love to jump in when you were there too.
	Brian Callen said he'd love to jump in when you were there.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Tim was like, oh my gosh, I love Tulsa, you know, so, you know, we'll have to make a work and maybe just get a round table of a bunch of knuckleheads and a bunch of knuckleheads, you know, and a nice lady.
	Yeah, there you go.
	That'll be fun.
	That'll be great, Cam.
	I look forward to it.
	I saw Cam Haynes.
	Cam Haynes just started his podcast and their little teaser.
	It cracked me up.
	I didn't know they were doing this, but they're like, oh, we should get Jocko.
	We should get this person.
	We should get that person.
	Cam's like, you know, this is a lot of toxic masculinity.
	We should have Tulsi Capri.
	We should have Tulsi Capri.
	That's awesome, man.
	That's awesome.
	It's so rad.
	I'll tell you, your name comes out more than...
	More than anybody, because Tim and I, the question we get the most is, because we've got the young men's, we've got the dad's program now, we've got men all over the world in this, and the question that comes up most is, well, when are you going to have something for the ladies?
	Absolutely.
	And we're all for it, but we also know that Tim and I are not...
	A lady?
	Ladies?
	A lady and didn't grow up as ladies.
	And that just looks a little different.
	Nor will you ever identify as ladies?
	Nor will we ever.
	That's exactly it.
	And people understand that when we tell it.
	They're like, oh yeah, okay, that makes sense.
	But they're like, well, what about Tulsi?
	No offense, Matt, but just the visual picture of you and Tim Kennedy as ladies is not pretty.
	I'm not going to lie.
	It's not pretty.
	It's not pretty.
	Even Tim and I as half-undressed men after a workout.
	So never mind putting us in a dress.
	But your name is the one that comes up quite often.
	So it's just a testament to who you are and the character that people see.
	Thank you.
	Well, I look forward to many more awesome things with you and the crew.
	I just talked to Dave Rubin this morning for his show, and I was on a conference call with Brian Callen two days ago, and so our circles are very much intertwined.
	Yeah, some great guys right there.
	That's awesome.
	Well, anytime, 24-7, just let me know.
	Thank you.
	Likewise.
	Please do try to get some sleep.
	Yes, ma'am.
	I'll give it a shot.
	All right.

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