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June 29, 2022 - RFK Jr. The Defender
36:48
Cell Phone Tumors with Hunter Lundy

Attorney Hunter Lundy discusses how cell phones can cause brain tumors and lawsuits to hold the industry accountable in this episode.

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Hey, everybody.
My uncle, Senator Edward Kennedy, died of a glioblastoma tumor.
Johnny Cochran, who I also knew well, also died of a so-called cell phone tumor, the same kind.
Today, there is an explosion of these kind of tumors in people all over the country, and plaintiffs have sued the cell phone industry and the Cell Phone Lobbying Association.
We're hiding the associations between cell phone radiation and the growth of these tumors.
The industry has adopted the tactics of the tobacco industry and delayed, delayed, delayed.
Many of these cases have been sitting in court for 20 years.
My guest today, Hunter Lundy, who is a well-known attorney from one of the leading plaintiff's attorneys in this country, From Lake Charles, Louisiana, is joining us to talk about a case that he and I are bringing on cell phone tumors.
We are representing specifically Reverend Frank Aaron Walker, who died of a cell phone tumor at age 49 in December of 2020.
And tell us about this case.
Hunter for not getting bogged down in the court, which is what has happened to every one of these other cell phone cases.
Well, the suits were filed in the D.C. Superior Court years ago, and many other cases were joined.
In 2013, we had a Fry hearing with a number of experts.
Fry means Which was the standard at the time to challenge the testimony of an expert and the court wanted to determine whether or not there was an association at that hearing between cell phone radiation and brain tumors.
So we went forward in 2013 with our proof with a number of experts and the cell phone manufacturers and the carriers all defended it with their experts.
And after weeks of hearing, we had what we called a favorable ruling from the judge at that time in D.C., allowing five of our experts to testify, which means that had he let the case go forward at that time, and an individual's case been chosen to be proved for the damages caused by the cell phone radiation, those witnesses would be permitted to testify in that individual case.
Well, the judge certified the case for appeal to the D.C. Court of Appeals.
And the Court of Appeals, we argued that case sometime later in the end of 2014-2015.
And the Court of Appeals ruled that they wanted to change the standard.
And so the standard went from Fry to what's called Daubert.
The French in Louisiana like to say Daubert.
But D-A-U-B-E-R-T, that was a national case.
It was a pharmaceutical case where the Supreme Court, Court of Appeals first in the Supreme Court, created a standard to test the reliability of an expert's opinion.
It was a little different than the Fry.
So D.C. courts decided we're going to switch to Daubert after 100-something years following Fry.
So they chose our case.
We went back.
And by the time we went back to the trial court level, there was a new judge.
And so the court said, well, we're going to allow you to rewrite the opinions, have your experts present their opinions at Daubert, and the defendants can challenge them one more time.
And then since that time, we've been through three district court judges, superior district court judges, and arguments have been made in what evidence can be put on and what cannot be put on.
It's taken years.
We've gone through COVID lockdowns.
Finally, now we have a firm date that we will believe that we will go forward on September the 12th of this year to prove our experts passed the Daubert standard.
We proved that they passed the Fry.
In the interim, another scientist came out with an opinion that is extremely compelling That says there clearly is a relationship between cell phone radiation and brain tumors.
And it's more than just what the IARC panel said in 2011.
It's not a possibility.
It's a probability.
It's probably a known carcinogen.
And his name is well known in the scientific community, Dr.
Chris Fortier.
The trial court has decided that we cannot add that opinion.
At this point in time, we will not be allowed to use that testimony of that witness.
So we have to rely on the witnesses that testified back in 2013.
And so that's where we are.
So not knowing when we would get a hearing finally due to COVID lockdowns and exclusions.
And these hearings, these witnesses, many of them are coming overseas.
We have a witness that's coming too from Austria.
We've got one from Greece.
We've got one who is, his first language is Russian, his second language is Swedish, his third language is English.
But he is a world-renowned geneticist, radiation physicist, and he will testify.
It's easier for people to understand than Hunter Lundy, the lawyer in this case.
So we have difficulty, we have language barriers, and we can't do these hearings by Zoom.
You know and I know that the right to confront a witness or put a witness on, the credibility of that witness is as important as you and I looking at each other right now, really better in the same room as opposed to doing it over television or Zoom or closed circuit.
And so that hearing's coming up.
In the absence of this time, we were hired by a widow from Reverend Walker that you just mentioned to the listeners.
And we filed her suit for the death of her husband along with her two sons who are heirs of Pastor Walker.
And he had tremendous cell phone exposures.
We had all of his phones, all of his data.
We have all the necessary elements to go prove the case.
The last phone that he used was a phone manufactured in China.
And so we've spent Over six months to almost a year trying to serve this Chinese corporation under the Hague Convention.
And they will be served.
And once that happens, we will move forward.
That suit is filed in the United States District Court for the Western District of Louisiana.
And so we believe that we can push that case fast.
And that's our goal.
We don't know what's going to happen in D.C. We're on our fifth judge now.
D.C. Superior Court, but we know that if we get that trial date in Louisiana, We know who the judge is that's going to make the decisions.
And that recent study by Chris Portier.
Chris Portier was a key witness in our Monsanto case.
He was a former CDC official.
He was the head, the director of the National Toxicity Program.
He's one of the most respected toxicologists on the planet.
And the fact that he's now come out with this study is really devastating for the industry.
But as you said, at this point in the proceeding, we are not allowed to use that study in persuading the judge.
Let's go back a second.
The lawsuit alleges we're representing Frank Aaron Walker, who was a pastor, a teacher, a musician from Louisiana.
He used his cell phone for 25 years, and he was diagnosed with a glioblastoma brain cancer in January 2019.
Reverend Walker died on December 31, 2020, at the age of 49, after a two-year battle with this cancer.
Very, very similar story to my uncle, Ted Kennedy.
Our lawsuit, the defendants in the lawsuit are Motorola, AT&T Mobility, ZDE, E Corporation, Cricket Communications, and the Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association, which is one of the worst villains in this lawsuit.
We will explain why in a second.
That is the telecommunications industry's lobbying arm.
The lawsuit alleges that the telecom industry downplayed, understated, and did not state the health hazards and risks associated with cell phones, which they knew about.
It also accuses the defendants of fraud, unfair trade practices, design defects, inadequate warning, and misrepresentation, among other things.
State and federal claims.
Now, I started having an interest in this issue back, I think, around 2015, and I was doing the TV show on Air America with Mike Papantonio.
And I had a guest repeatedly named George Carlow, Dr.
George Carlow.
Dr.
George Carlow was hired by an official, was the CEO of the lobbying association, Tom Wheeler.
And George Carlow was kind of a, I would describe him as Kind of a professional, almost an expert witness for industry.
We used to call people like that biostitutes.
They're people who the industry knows, they're reliable, and they're going to produce a report that exonerates the industry from any association with injuries.
They hired George Carlos to do this, and he was so horrified.
The scientific literature, the injuries that were being caused by cell phones that were undeniable, that he double-crossed the industry and he gave back the $25 million and he gave a press conference saying this is causing cancer.
And he destroyed his career in the process.
He ended up writing a very, very good book about it.
And I had him two or three times on to talk about it, but it was shocking what he found out.
The overwhelming mountain of literature that shows, that proves beyond any doubt that cell phones are causing these tumors in people's brains, along with DNA damage, mutations, all kinds of other problems.
Penetration of the blood-brain barrier.
Tell us who Tom Wheeler is, because he is a major figure in this saga, and he is one of the major villains.
Well, Tom, it's like you said, Tom Wheeler at the time, in the early years, was the CEO or Executive Director of the lobbying group that was lobbying for the wireless community, and he Wanted to disprove any theory that cell phone radiation could cause these brain tumors.
And just to interrupt you for a second, Hunter, he later, he was rewarded for his duplicity, his venal craven actions against Carlos and others by being appointed the head of the Federal Communications Commission.
That's correct.
President Obama appointed Wheeler head of the FCC. So he left the wireless lobbying firm where he, and I'm going to follow up what you said about George Carlow, because they hired an entity called WTR, the Wireless Technology Research Group, and they wanted to disprove that there was any connection.
And so the wireless technology group took about $3 million or so of that $25 million grant, and they did studies And those studies came back showing just the opposite of what Tom Wheeler wanted to prove.
And so, as you know, through history of battling with pharma and tobacco and everybody else, when they don't like the message, they try to kill the messenger.
And so that's what they tried to do to Dr.
Carlo.
Carlo, very well respected.
Yeah, he was on the defense or the industry side of most issues before this time, but now he's seeing the truth.
And they took people like Dr.
Henry Lye, one of the most well-respected scientists in the world, out of the state of Washington, who was doing studies and they came back and they showed that there was a break in the DNA. They showed that this radiation at these levels, and they call them non-radiation levels, I'm trying to think of the term that's used.
For non-heating, non-thermal is the word, non-thermal levels.
Of course, in reality, all radiation produces some heat, but at these levels, they called them non-thermal, and they tried to make the argument non-thermal radiation will never break the DNA bond, but it's simply not true.
It's not true.
And let me explain that to the listeners.
Of course, the subthermal injuries from this radiation, it's destroying your DNA. It's causing mutations.
It's causing tumors to sprout.
It is penetrating the blood-brain barrier.
It's causing all kinds of damage to your immune system.
And in order to destroy Dr.
Lay, as you point out, they actually began wargaming a strategy against him.
They call it wargaming.
They hired a PR firm and they said, how do we take this scientist who is so respected, so revered, and destroy not just his study, but destroy his entire reputation?
Well, that's what they did.
And they try to do it with everybody, the whole industry that reports.
There is causation between cell phone radiation and brain tumors.
We know there's causation between cell phone radiation and other problems, too.
We know there's neurological effects that are affecting people now.
We know that the radiation that's occurring in our environment today, and you know as well as anybody, Bobby, that this 5G technology and their way to get around zoning and Counties and cities and parishes in Louisiana and sticking these towers anywhere.
They're radiating the public.
So to accomplish a financial goal, and it's ridiculous.
I know we're getting off a little bit, but I'm just concerned about the whole industry.
But I'm really concerned about these people that hold that cell phone next to their brain.
And you know, and you described your Uncle Ted as having that tumor right here.
Which was probably on the temporal lobe.
And the temporal lobe is the lobe surrounding the side of the brain of the ear, which gets the most exposure.
You'll see some frontal lobe and you'll see some parateal lobes, but most of them are temporal lobe tumors.
And it's their ipsilateral on the side of the brain in which the cell phone is home.
So when those phones are tested on mannequins early and trying to get them put on the shelves for buyers to buy, They never test them in a manner in which people use them.
I mean, people don't hold them like this.
They hold them like this.
So we've had all these tumors happen because of it.
And yeah, I know today we have our young people are smart and that they're texting and that they're hopefully wearing their accessories, not Bluetooth, but accessory earpieces.
And they're holding their speaker in.
I mean, I know you and I and anybody else that we know today, we speak or we try to create, because distance is everything.
The closer you hold it to your head, the more dangerous, the more higher the exposure, the greater the energy is that's entering your brain.
So you're right.
It's not the same frequency as a microwave, but it's a little microwave and it's shooting right into your brain.
It's breaking the brain barrier, as you said, and so it's upsetting the DNA. And of course, years ago when they were trying to damage Dr.
Lai and others, They wanted to say, well, it doesn't break the DNA. Well, there are studies today that show it does break the DNA. There are studies that show that it affects the RNA, which is the repair mechanism.
And so your brain is always producing little cancer cells, but we clean them up.
The brain is created, and the cell structure is such that it's self-cleansing, and the RNA helps for the self-cleansing.
But if you damage the RNA, you're not self-cleansing.
So those tumors, those cancer cells can start forming and they can start growing.
And we know that the radiation has, you know, from the many cases you're involved in, has a genotoxic effect on people.
And that's the first beginning of the problem.
So we call them free radicals that are created from the overexposure of this radiation.
And proximity and use is everything.
So the science has shown the longer the use, the larger the propensity to get to cancer.
So back in 2011, they said, you know, if you had 10 years of use, 30 minutes a day, IARC said there's a probability of a twofold increase in getting a glioblastoma.
There's also a tumor called an acoustic neuroma.
Now, that's not malignant like the glio, but what it does, it forms on the nerve between the brain and the ear, and it grows, and people don't even know it's in there.
When people start getting symptoms of losing their hearing or getting headaches, they go and they get checked.
A CAT scan or brain scan shows they got a tumor.
And then what happens?
Well, that tumor has to be removed.
So when that tumor gets removed, and I'm calling it tumor, it's a benign tumor.
But anytime you go into the brain to remove a tumor, you're damaging it.
And of course, when you damage tissue in the brain, it has severe adverse effects.
So those benign tumors are just as serious.
I'm not going to say they're lethal like the glioblastoma.
And so we use the word glioblastoma.
That means it's at a stage four.
That's the worst that it can be.
The oleos and the astros, those are stages in which the tumors come out.
The glioblastoma is generally already in stage four.
It's already, I mean...
And generally, the life expectancy at best is five years.
Generally, sometimes it's six months or less before they know it.
And I know I've had a family member, too, that died with a glioblastoma.
So I know what they do and how they grow and how fast they move.
And these cell phones, they don't only initiate that tumor, they promote tumors.
Somebody can have a tumor that's never going to manifest.
But that cell phone use will promote the growth of that tumor expeditiously.
And so the science is pretty clear on that as well.
So you could have somebody that has a tumor because they, genetically, that it never manifests.
They could have it because they put their hands in some chemical.
We know that you watched the movie Aaron Brockovich.
Your listeners all know about Aaron Brockovich.
So those people were dipping their hands and They weren't dipping their hands.
They were actually drinking water that had been contaminated by hexavalent chromium.
You know, we called it chromium-6.
Chromium-6 will give you a brain tumor.
And so those are problems.
They know it.
The industry knows it.
We always have that saying, follow the money.
And going back to this Tom Wheeler thing, that's unconscionable where I come from to see somebody leave the lobby and industry and then become the FCC Chairman.
That's this world we live in, and you know, it's just not good, and I just pray that we get our day in court, and I pray that the courts find the causation.
I pray that we get our day in court on the Walker case, because you and I know that is a good case, and that is, if we get our chance to put on our evidence, we'll prevail.
I just want to mention one of the other scientific heroes in this, another person who has been defamed, marginalized, vilified, whose career was destroyed, Dr.
Jerry Phillips, PhD.
He was hired by Motorola to counter Dr.
Lay's study.
Instead, he confirmed it.
And Motorola, which funded this study, pressured him not to publish and threatened to withdraw his funding.
When Phillips refused to allow Motorola to spin his research, Motorola cut Phillips' funding and threatened to destroy him in the scientific community.
And as you say, they knew what they were doing.
They have a whole series of patents going back to the early 1990s.
In which they were patenting technology for protecting human tissue From the radiation that they knew was emanating from their cell phones and destroying human cells, mutating them and causing tumors.
The industry, Nokia and these other companies, developed dozens of patents or devices that would protect you from their cell phone radiation.
And many of these patents were cheap devices that were easy to use, but they would have cost money and they would have had to admit What they were doing, and so they just put the patents on the shelf.
That's part of the evidence in our case, is we have these little patents that show they knew exactly what was happening.
No question about it.
In the 90s, and you pointed out in my memory, and this is all evidence that was put in the Frey hearing.
This is a public record.
We're not talking out of school at all.
This is public record.
That Nokia, my memory, is their application to change their patent was to move the antenna.
They were all wanting to move the antenna because the antenna in the phone was the hotspot.
So when the signals going out are coming in, it's coming in right at the antenna.
And so the antennas were up here.
And so it was right in the ear.
They were trying to reposition the antenna because they know when you press send, that's when the radiation is going and that person passes received.
They're getting the highest exposure at that time.
And so they wanted to move the antenna.
And in my memory is that one of the applications said because of the report of glioblastomas.
And so they knew they had knowledge of what was being reported.
They were wanting to remove their antennas to make them safer.
And today, you know, we went through the last five to eight or ten years of cell phones.
They were selling the accessories with the phones.
They were encouraging people to use the accessories.
They tell you the speaker.
And, of course, they do it on a basis of a standard.
They claim that in order to meet the SAR standard, which is called the Specific Absorption Rate of the phone.
That's the amount of kilowatts per gram of body tissue in which radiation is going into the brain.
That's a standard that was not really built for the purposes of the cell phone.
And it was built way before the cell phones.
And that was the standard used by the FCC for the cell phone.
It came in it.
And I'm not challenging that standard because we know the phones don't meet the standard.
Assuming the standard was a valid standard, cell phones don't even meet them.
But they did that and they put that information in the phone packages themselves.
You know, we used to pick up an Apple phone and then we would dial, follow the instructions until we found the SAR. And it would tell you, hold it an inch away from your body.
Don't put it on your belt.
Don't put it in your pocket.
Hold it a certain distance from your head.
The old Blackberry said five-eighths of an inch to one inch.
How many people in the public knew that buried in their phone was an instruction to hold the phone away from your body a certain distance?
Nobody did.
And like I said, the problem is people hold it flush up their head.
So their attempt to give some kind of instruction, you know, was flawed.
And they want to give that instruction on the basis of the SAR standard.
But yet they were telling people, we know there's studies that show men that put the cell phones in their pocket have a reduction of sperm count.
I mean, there's peer-reviewed published studies that shows it affects them.
We know today that there's a study that's been done on women Nowadays, they make jogging brassieres, jogging bras with pockets in them.
So women that were putting their cell phones in their bra every day when they were exercising, jogging, they started showing up with tumors on the pattern of the cell phone.
So yes, our cases are brain tumors because Pastor Walker died from a brain tumor.
And these other people that we filed suits for in DC died of brain tumors.
But this is a much bigger issue.
And so until they step up to the plate and admit it, I'm just a firm believer just like you do.
Everybody should be held accountable.
Everybody.
Why should anybody get a break when they know the truth and there's consequences from their wrongful conduct?
And so I just, again, we hope and pray that we will get our day in court and we will approve a case.
It's coming.
You and I know sometimes it takes a long time.
Time for the truth to come out.
You and I will never put cell phones next to our heads.
So I use a cell phone all the time, but I hold a great distance from my body.
I always put it on speaker, even if there's other people around, even if they might think it's rude.
I try not to be rude, but I am not going to put that thing next to my head no matter what, because I know too much.
I've seen the studies.
I've read them.
I've seen the studies you're talking about, and this isn't part of our suit, but one of the things that we know is that the phone is transmitting this dangerous cancer carcinogenic radiation, even when you're not using it to make calls.
When you use your app, the more apps you have on your phone, the more radiation is being emitted.
Those apps are communicating with the tower all the time, and when they...
That's correct.
Looking for that tower, they are emitting that radiation.
If you put it in your front pocket, if you're a woman and it's near your ovaries or your breasts, you are really, really playing with fire.
My uncle, when he went in, he discovered he had a seizure and was unconscious for a while.
Then they diagnosed and they did the CAT scan, the MRI, and found out that he had this glioblastoma.
And as you know, it kind of looks like a spider web in your brain.
It's not a discrete tumor.
It's spread everywhere.
He was the chair for 50 years of the U.S. Senate Health Committee.
So he had access to the best doctors in America, and they kept him alive for another two years.
He went down to Duke in North Carolina and got surgery.
With that kind of tumor, it's interspersed all with different parts of your brain.
And it's not the kind of thing that you can just cut out.
And he had to go through surgery when he was conscious.
They took the top of his skull off and And the doctor was standing behind him, like in Silence of the Lambs, with a scalpel.
And the doctor would ask him to do certain problems while he had applied pressure.
The different parts of Teddy's brain.
And if Teddy could do the problem while he was holding that pressure against his brain, the doctor would then cut out that little piece of his cancer-ridden brain.
And if Teddy couldn't do it or if he couldn't use the speech correctly, then he would leave it alone.
And by doing that kind of, you know, really, he was completely conscious during the surgery while they were cutting pieces of his brain out.
And by doing that kind of really torturous experiment he gave, he bought him another two years of life.
But if he hadn't done that, Teddy would not have survived too much.
That's how deadly these tumor, these cell phone tumors are.
There's been a lot of people, especially like your uncle in public office, that, you know, they walked around with these big old box Motorola's for years when they first came out.
Not only was the cell phone emitting radiation, they were three watt phones.
Today, the phones are about a quarter of a watt.
They were hot.
They were probably getting radiated from the battery as well as from the radiation from the signal.
So they were getting hit hard.
And if you remember the old Motorola phones, box phones, you rode around in your car back in the 80s.
So I think people were getting high dose.
I mean, I know that I had to run back and forth from New Orleans for years.
Fortunately, I had my antenna and my trunk, and so the signet wasn't next to my head, and people, we were speaking, or we were using speakers on the car way back then.
These small phones that you're holding next to your head daily, and while we're talking, Bobby, I want to make sure any mom who's listening Do not let your child keep their phone next to their pillow or next to their bed.
Do not let them use it as a wake-up alarm underneath their bed.
Do not let them keep their iPads because they emit radiation too.
All these devices emit radiation and they're not healthy.
Pregnant moms do not keep iPads on your lap or computers or cell phones or whatever.
The Russians, as you know, there are literally tens of thousands of articles that show that it causes cancer, that it has all these other neurological effects, that it has tissue effects, etc.
Most of those of the best studies, the early ones, came from Russia, from the Soviet Union, because they were early innovators with microwave radiation.
We're looking at it as a weapon, communication, and for a lot of other reasons, but they did a lot of really good science on it.
And today, the standards in Russia Radiation exposure from cell phones are one one-thousandth of what we have in this country.
And in schools, in elementary schools, many of them ban the use of cell phones by kids because they know how dangerous it is for children.
And we just allow our kids and encourage them to play these games all day on their cell phone.
And, you know, they're just radiating themselves.
And the Israelis and the Europeans are way ahead of us.
You're right, Bobby.
I mean, you can't, unless you're 16 years old, in some of these countries, you can't have a cell phone.
You can't use a cell phone.
And we're giving it to five-year-olds to play with.
And so some of the European countries have banned the use of cell phones for teenagers.
Some of the South American countries have.
And here we are doing what we're doing and sticking our hands in the sand.
But again, it becomes, you know, it I'm sorry to say it, but it's a greed issue.
We cannot let corporate America harm our people.
There has to be a balance.
There has to be truth.
And the public is not being told the truth.
And you know better than I do, you've written about people that are in leadership positions that don't tell truth.
The adverse effects can have on people.
And this is one of them.
This is a big sort of one, and we could go down the list, and I really don't want to throw all the names out and the public figures.
You've chosen to talk about your uncle, and I appreciate that.
I knew your uncle.
He married a girl from Crowley, Louisiana, and a family that I know real well.
Reggie's daughter.
So I know him, and I knew Judge Reggie well.
He was a friend.
So anyway, I just think we have to keep doing what we're doing.
You have to keep doing what you're doing.
We have to get our day in court, and then we need to take advantage of it when we get it.
Well, now, we're not actually out looking for cases right now.
We have been registering cases for people who may run up against the statute of limitations.
Right.
People who have cell phone tumors and need to file in order to protect their rights under the statute of limitations.
For those kind of people, what should we advise them?
Should they call your office?
Should they contact you?
They can call our office.
They can get online and email us.
We get them every day.
We have a couple of lawyers in our office that are available.
Watching and observing, and we look at the literature to determine whether or not, first of all, if they have a case that has probability of success, then we'll take it.
We will not take a case that we think does not have probability of success.
And again, it has to do with exposure, the timing of it, the type of tumor, the location of the tumor, all of those play in to the decision-making.
And then there's a three-year statute, I think, in D.C. And the reason why D.C. is a catch-all location is because the lobbying firms were located there.
The nonprofits can be sued there.
And so you sue them there.
And so you keep them.
But we only do that if we have to.
Again, we're waiting on that opportunity because if God wills, you know, we get to do our discovery.
We will get a trial date within a year in the Western District of Louisiana.
You mentioned the company, the Chinese company, a while ago when you were looking at the defendants, that we're waiting on service and we're getting close when we get that service.
Then the court has had to grant extensions I mean, the court's ready to act on our case.
We're just waiting on that service because we don't want to leave one piece of the puzzle out.
When we go, we won't.
The manufacturer of the phone for Reverend Walker's last three years of use needs to be a party.
Okay, so I'm one of the attorneys on this case.
Hunter Lundy, who we're talking to right now, is the lead attorney on this case.
His firm, Lake Charles, Louisiana, is called Lundy Lundy Soilu and South.
Soilu is spelled S-O-I-L-E-A-U. But all you have to remember is Lundy Lundy, L-U-N-D-Y. Go to his website and...
If you think you have an issue, if you think you have a statute of limitations problem, once we win this lawsuit, we will then be inviting everybody in.
But until then, we need to see what happens in the D.C. court.
Thank you, Hunter.
Thank you, Bobby.
And keep up the good work.
Thanks.
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