Immunity, Pesticides, and Gut Health with Dr Zach Bush
Dr Zach Bush and RFK Jr discuss public and planetary health and solutions in this solutions oriented episode.
Zach Bush MD is a physician specializing in internal medicine, endocrinology and hospice care. He is an internationally recognized educator and thought leader on the microbiome as it relates to health, disease, and food systems. Dr Zach founded *Seraphic Group and the nonprofit Farmer’s Footprint to develop root-cause solutions for human and ecological health. His passion for education reaches across many disciplines, including topics such as the role of soil and water ecosystems in human genomics, immunity, and gut/brain health. His education has highlighted the need for a radical departure from chemical farming and pharmacy, and his ongoing efforts are providing a path for consumers, farmers, and mega-industries to work together for a healthy future for people and planet.
He's, for a lot of reasons, because I think better than anybody, I've spent most of my career in the environmental space trying to save nature, and then the other half, particularly more recently, dealing with toxics and impacts on human health, And I think you better than anybody in the world and history has kind of united those two things into a single vision for how to think about and how to understand the world.
And, you know, you've just done such a good job of explaining that unity to so many people like me and, you know, helping us understand that it's all the same thing.
Let me just tell you, I've known about you for years, but I really started paying close attention to you when I was trying the Monsanto cases.
On glyphosate, and you've done a lot of the really important thinking on glyphosate.
Really, for the first time, I was talking with experts who were explaining to me about the shikimate pathway and the importance of the way that glyphosate injures people is really by injuring the microbiome and by rewarding the bacteria that cause inflammation.
And making a much more hostile environment in your gut and in your body, or the commensal bacteria, the ones that are supposed to be the police force who get rid of the, you know, the inflammatory invaders in our systems and inflammation.
You know, I think that's one of the things you've really taught us.
Thank you.
That's an incredible introduction coming from somebody with your impact on the world that you've had and the breadth of activists and scientists you've been in touch with over the last 40 years.
That was a very humbling introduction.
But I think it's a really apropos place to start at the Shikame pathway.
It's an esoteric enzyme pathway that is not known to us as consumers or, frankly, as physicians.
I certainly was not taught the Shikame pathway.
And the reason is this is not in the human body.
And so the shikimate pathway only resides in single cellular organisms or plants.
And so the bacteria and fungi within our soils or the plants that we would consume contain the shikimate pathway.
And its critical role in nature and human biology is around producing a number of different compounds.
I would break into two general categories, one being the alkaloids, which are the medicine within our food, including many of the anti-inflammatories that you're kind of referring to there.
And so the anti-inflammatory, anti-seizure, anti-diabetic, anti-heart disease, anti-cancer, all these compounds in the alkaloids that have been long exploited by myself and others within the drug industry, you know, when I started We were always looking at the alkaloids for wisdom on which molecules we should manipulate next to be a chemotherapy or whatnot, because nature has already figured out these medicinal pathways.
And then the other half, if you go past the alkaloids, are the essential amino acids.
The ringed carbon molecules that are necessary for the essential amino acids to be produced are necessarily coming through the shikimate pathway and bacteria and fungi in our gut or the soil or plants that we would consume.
And the essential amino acids are termed such because we can't produce them since we don't have the shikimate pathway.
And these include critical Compounds like phenylalanine, tryptophan, tyrosine, these ringed amino acids are the building blocks then for large enzymes and proteins and neurotransmitters and ultimately hormones.
And so you can't have normal estrogen, testosterone, or norepinephrine, epinephrine signaling within the human body without these constituent building blocks of the essential amino acids that are coming from the microbes in your gut or the microbes in the soil or the plants that you would consume.
And so the building blocks for human life, the building blocks, in fact, for any multicellular life, is put together by this incredible microbiome and the plant life that would be nurtured by it.
And so when we talk about adding a chemical to the food system in the 1970s that would block the shikimate pathway, it was sped through the EPA, USDA, all the regulatory environments saying it was going to be safer than water, which was their tagline for many years, as you well know.
Because they argued since the shikimate pathway doesn't exist in human cells, it must be safe for humans.
We could drink it all day long.
We don't have the target for it.
And yet we saw this immediate impact on human health retrospectively, right?
So if we look at the public health impact, of the chemical food industry starting the 1978 time frame accelerating to 1992 when we started spraying that ground up glyphosate directly on wheat and we then within 24 months see the advent of gluten sensitivity as an epidemic and then 1996 rolls around and we genetically modified corn,
soybean, sugar beets and the rest to be able to tolerate direct spraying so now all these commodity crops being sprayed directly with a chemical That's being grown in soil that has no shikimate pathway activation because of the toxicity of glyphosate.
The plants themselves can no longer make the essential amino acids.
There's only 22 amino acids that make a human body, which is amazing.
It's like the alphabet.
You've only got these few letters that then produce hundreds of thousands of words in the same way that the vowels are critical to the English language.
You eliminate four of the vowels and you're misspelled.
You know, 50% of the word's out there.
In the same way, if you eliminate the critical essential amino acids, there's, you know, these nine essential amino acids within the 22 that we can't make, and you delete, you know, three or four or five of those for the shikimate pathway toxicity, suddenly we're building humans that are misspelled at the protein level.
And when we misspell proteins, we lose detoxification capacity, we lose repair capacity, and we start to age at an accelerated rate, which leads to this emergence of diseases like The real problem is offensive insults in the environment.
Viruses to do damage to us that normally would be benign if we had a healthy ecosystem inside and outside.
Yeah, the science of the last 20 years has exploded the previous paradigm.
The previous paradigm was one of an adaptive immune system belief, is that humans are in conflict with the microbiome and the virome all the time, and we're always vulnerable to attack from viruses.
And so this, you know, dates back to the 1800s with the arguments between Bachamp and Pasteur in France who were arguing over germ theory versus brain theory.
And what Bachamp was recognizing is he was watching twins of identical genetics Be exposed to different environments and end up with completely different diseases.
And so his argument was, it's not so much that it's like the genetic predisposition of the individual or some attacking, it's what is the condition and terrain within that specific human being when you put them in a greater macro environment.
So he was recognizing changes in vulnerability based on our macro environment and resilience against disease if we were in a healthy environment.
So he was the first to really put together long before we had the words genetics, microbiome, bacteria even.
He had already put together that the human body was reflecting this greater ecosystem around us.
And vulnerabilities here within the body were actually just symptomatic of a disconnect from a greater ecosystem around us.
So brilliant, brilliant scientists.
And that academic argument was supported by hundreds of academic missions on both sides of the discussion for over 30 years as that raged.
And then with the advent of chemical industry towards the late 1800s and the opportunity to start killing things and the observations of, you know, being able to kill germs and things like this, Pasteur went out.
And so we kind of fell down into this dogma rather than a debate between these two things.
Now you speed up 120 years later and you find out, shoot, we should have kept that debate going because, in fact, both sides have some truth, right?
There are viruses and bacteria that can function as pathogens when the environment and ecosystem is perturbed.
But the new science in the last 20 years has really completely ended what we should think of as the old germ theory world because we find out now that the healthy human body is teeming with bacteria and viruses.
My bloodstream, as I sit happy and vibrant and thriving in front of you here, has 10 of the 15 viruses in it.
That doesn't compute on the old model.
I have 14 quadrillion mitochondria living inside of me, which are these little bacteria that live inside my cells in some sort of reproductive capacity.
They're reproducing inside my cells all the time, and I stay in relationship to my mitochondria.
In the same way, I stay in relationship to 1.4 quadrillion mitochondria.
Bacteria.
And we don't even know how many quadrillions of fungi and yeast and the like that are in my body.
Suffice to say, I have this universe that far outstrips and outnumbers my human cell count in this microbial world within me.
And we now know that the microbes are not limited to my gut or my skin.
In fact, my brain has bacteria and fungi in there that are working into nursemaid, my central nervous system, into health.
And if I develop a neurotoxin injury because of exposure through my food system or whatnot, the bacteria and fungi are able to respond in a damage control fashion to clean up the damage.
And so we have this whole new world emerging to find out that human health is not centered upon the human cell, but instead human health thrives within this great ecosystem within and without us that really dictates it.
And so something happened to radically change the human relationship to the whole virus.
Including these few that I've mentioned.
I mentioned earlier that I have 10 to 15 viruses in my bloodstream right now, the vast majority of which, 99.999% have never been named.
And so we're teaming with viral information.
Something happened to the humans to change their relationship to this virome in the late 70s.
And it happens to correlate in time with the advent of Roundup and glyphosate that we were talking about earlier.
And interesting, glyphosate It does block the shikimate pathway, which has some important ramifications for the immune system.
But our lab for the last six years has been working on understanding what is the direct toxicity of Roundup to humans directly.
So yes, it kills bacteria, shuts down the shikimate pathway, does all that.
But is there toxicity directly to the human system?
And that's what we've...
The first to publish around is that when you expose human gut, vascular system, blood-brain barrier, kidney tubules to this chemical, it breaks the tight junctions.
And the tight junctions are the Velcro between our body and the outside world.
And when you lose the tight junctions, you turn into a leaky sieve.
And what you've just destroyed is the very front line of a whole category of human immunity that we call the innate immune system.
And so in 1976 to 1981, for the first time, we added a chemical to agricultural systems that's water-soluble, meaning it got into our water table, got into our air, got into our food systems, and then accelerated throughout the 80s and into the 90s in its penetration into all Western countries, and certainly Africa was actually one of the first countries inundated with glyphosate and Roundup in the late 70s.
And so we saw this advent of this chemical that suddenly disrupted the innate immune system of humans.
And the innate immune system gone, or suddenly damaged with its front line, we changed our relationship to the entire environment.
But there was another deeper fundamental break, I think, to the entire population as we started to mix a chemical into our food system that would destroy that front line of the innate immune system.
I wanted to make one other note here, which is that Phil Landrigan You probably know who's one of the great experts.
He's been an expert for me on many cases.
One of the great experts on toxics and the impact on human health.
More of a conventional approach to it than, for example, that you do.
He's taken note that we have had this explosion that you talk about of chronic disease in our country.
So in 1940, the rate of chronic disease in Americans was about 6%.
That's probably what a good background is.
HHS did a study in 86, which said by then it had raised to 12.8%.
And then in 2006, HHS did another comprehensive study that showed it had increased to 54%.
So it doubled between 1940 and 1986, but then, you know, it quintupled between 86 and 2005.
Landrigan went out and he said, okay, there's a finite number.
It has to be an environmental insult because genes do not cause sudden epidemics.
It has to be environmental.
And there are a limited number of culprits And we can look at that follow that timeline.
And, you know, we should be looking at each one of those.
I think glyphosate was clearly one of them, which really became ubiquitous beginning in 94.
PFASs, which were flame retardants, which were another culprit.
Mercury and other metals that became ubiquitous.
And aluminum, which became ubiquitous, which was locked in geology for centuries.
And we suddenly started releasing it.
Ultrasound, I think, was also on his list, which I was interested in hearing that.
And then EMFs, you know, cell phones.
There are a number of those.
And, you know, one of the questions is, we know what the culprits are.
It's pretty easy to do, you know, to devise epidemiological studies and to try to eliminate some of those.
And they're all probably contributing.
And vaccines, of course, another one.
In vaccines, we went from Three vaccines when I was a kid, the 72.
And then they have a lot of ingredients in them that also, like mercury and aluminum, also could be culprits.
So it's kind of sad that we don't have a health agency that is actually saying, OK, here's the problem.
We know what the culprits are.
Let's figure out which ones are doing it.
That science just is not done on a federal level.
Yeah, I mean, unfortunately not even done with individual chemicals, you know, and so my team was part of a group that was just testifying at the EPA last November during their open session on, right before re-approving Roundup and Glyphsave for another 13 years of use in U.S. agriculture, which did happen.
But when we were trying to combat that decision, we brought, you know, over 96 peer-reviewed science journal articles with our expanded team, and it was fascinating to watch this regulatory committee of all scientists of some ilk or another sit there and listen to 96 studies showing direct armed humans from,
you know, All kinds of avenues and then an enormous amount of data around impact on critical species to human survival, including things like bees and the mice in the fields that help aerate.
It goes on and on.
All of these were devastatingly affected.
And then they end up approving the chemical through, you know, the woman at the end, who's the head of their panel listening to us, stands up and says that none of your science can be turned into a regulatory decision because it wasn't presented as in the form of a regulatory document.
Instead, you presented a bunch of science documents.
And so I thought that was just a telling...
You know, picture of why we're having an impossible journey as scientists to change the paradigm of this regulatory environment, because they've been trained not to understand science or not to be able to listen to science.
Even if they understand it, they are taught that if it's not presented in a regulatory document, they can't participate in it.
They have been disempowered from taking science into regulatory decision making.
And that's a very sad step, I think, for our country when we disempower The very people, the public servants that I think probably went into what they're doing with very well-meaning, but we disempowered them to do the right thing by telling them that they could not use their mind and their intuition as part of their job.
They had to instead only focus on regulatory checkboxes that had to be checked.
And so it's a sad state of affairs on a single chemical like that.
But what you point out is, what is the toxicity of 64 herbicides and pesticide residues in a single glass of California wine, which is now kind of our average toxicity in a glass of wine.
Nobody knows.
Nobody's even studied one of those chemicals in direct toxicity, let alone the whole perfect storm.
And so the only answer that my group has stumbled upon is we have to stop it all.
We need to stop chemical food systems at a standstill.
And we have to do it extremely quickly.
We've lost some 53 to 57 percent of sperm counts in Western nations across the world in the last 40 years.
We're halfway through the extinction of our species here.
We actually only need to lose about another 20 percent before we lose fertility as a species.
One in three males is now infertile in Western nations due to sperm counts less than 15 million per milliliter.
We've got this really devastating effect on just our reproductive class, never mind autism and the chronic diseases and everything else.
Just by sperm count, we are, you know, within decades approaching our extinction event capacity.
So we have no time to wait for regulatory groups, wait for...
We have to instantaneously, as a global community, Quickly look at nature and say, what was her template?
What was Mother Nature's template for life?
And the answer is awesome, and it's actually pretty simple.
Adaptation and biodiversity is the entire secret to life on Earth.
After every one of the great five extinctions that preceded our sixth one that we're in the midst of, We're never followed by this journey of struggling biology back to some previous normal.
I think the dinosaurs were a freaking amazing biological event.
If I was Mother Earth, I would have kind of been pretty pleased with the dinosaurs, and if they went extinct, I'd just go rebuild that again, because that was awesome.
Well, they did last a long time.
They lasted longer than we did, for sure.
You know, one of the things and I don't mean to interrupt you, but one of the The troubling thing is that it's not just kind of a technocratic incapacity to do anything outside of these checkboxes, but there's something insidious and pervasive and sinister about the pharmaceutical industry takeover of co-opting the entire agenda of the federal health regulatory system.
And that's, you know, I just, I love your approach to it.
I wish you were a secretary of HHS and you were redirecting this thing to, you know, to actually saving humanity.
Well, I think, you know, we can do it faster than HHS can.
And I'm excited by this.
So I left the university setting in 2010 and started my own clinic.
And then within two years of starting my clinic, We started studying soil and found some molecules in soil that uncovered a whole new medicinal concept that bacteria were making medicine was a new, new world for me.
And so we dove into that and started my own biotech company with a private lab for $10,000.
And with that $10,000 lab, we started to prove out that Roundup and glyphosate were Really at the foundation of destroying the innate immune system through disruption of the tight junctions and other protein structures within the human cell.
And so I'm struck by how small amount of money, you know, $10,000 versus the $1.5 billion or $4 billion that the pharmaceutical industry tells you it takes to find a drug.
We found medicine within nature, and we're able to extract that from soil systems, you know, 60 million years old soil systems, And put them into dietary supplements for a total of less than $25,000.
Because we didn't have to outthink nature.
Instead, we tried to co-create with nature.
And so I believe that the future is not trying to leverage hundreds of billions of dollars for pharmaceutical development and research.
The future is around dumbing that way back to say, what happened to human biology between the destruction of topsoil in a couple hundred years back and now?
And how do we reinvent that relationship?
Or how do we re-foster that relationship between soil, water and air systems and human biology?
And the speed at which we heal is dumbfounding.
And so my excitement is, we don't have to wait for HHS or anybody else.
What we need to do is create a consortium of health, energy, ecology, and food system experts and leaders to create the future that we want.
We need to work together to say, here's a method for creating Clean, healthy soil within three years.
We can take toxic, chemically grown, dead dirt and turn it into vibrant soil systems that are clean of any residues of glyphosate and all that in three years.
What if we did that over a sector?
And then what if we partnered that with a new methodology for holding water within soils instead of letting it run off into distant river systems and create microclimates out of that?
We can reverse desertification Texas and other critical areas of the United States that have desertified over the last decades.
What if we just started to reverse engineer on that?
The humans that were then in those environments would radically be changed immediately.
And we can do this in micro-climates in the sense that we can change just the lunch for children on the west side of Oahu, Hawaii here.
They started a program for a regenerative farm integrated with children's education.
And 100% of the Native Hawaiians that were in the study going in were pre-diabetic.
These were children under the age of 18.
Within three months, 100% of them were free of prediabetes.
Just changing one meal a day and helping them interact with that garden space and grow regenerative foods.
They became part of the workforce.
They became part of the educational experience around it.
And it radically changed their health in three months.
You just change somebody on a lifetime trajectory for diabetes, early heart disease, amputations, ultimately death from cardiovascular causes at a young age, to somebody who now, at 15, has a completely different trajectory in life.
That's one lunch.
And so we're very excited about that potential.
And so I'm a portfolio manager for a new impact philanthropic fund that's just launched, the Human Resiliency Fund.
And many of our projects that we're funding through this huge philanthropic operation are certainly scientists and teasing out the innate immune system.
How does the human innate immune system become supported by its environment And how can we flip the switch on that immediately so that the 24 heaviest hit communities that are all largely BIPOC communities, low socioeconomic environments around the United States that got hit so hard by something like the recent pandemic, how can we move in there and switch that one lunch up and create regenerative food systems?
So one of the things we're scaling up is Eric Cutter's work with Alegria Fresh in Irvine, California, He installed a growing system with the Food Bank in Irvine in March with Bank of America Emergency Funding for COVID. $150,000 built this growing system that will produce a massive amount of produce.
Their first harvest went six weeks of installation on top of pavement.
And so it goes in on top of old asphalt parking lots, and you're growing food within six weeks.
Within 10 weeks, you have your third harvest.
And so you've got this massive generative machine.
They can then leverage that for more money, and you end up with almost a million pounds of produce feeding over half a million individuals out of that one food bank, out of $150,000.
And so we're going to expand this program.
We're turning into a 12-month growing system in all ecosystems with the addition of greenhouses within this growing system and the like.
For less than a million dollars per center, we can set up year-round regenerative agriculture food systems in these food deserts within urban environments for sure, but I'm very excited to install one at a test prison system to show improved function of neurologic function and recovery for prisoners I'm excited to set one inside of a school.
I'm excited to set one inside of a Navajo reservation.
I'm excited to put these in these food desert environments to show that resiliency at the human level is nearly instantaneous when we align with nature just through our food system itself.
HHS can continue its pathway.
I don't have any hope of untangling that situation in my lifetime, but I can make it obsolete.
And so I can make that system obsolete if I create a for-profit system within the ecosystem of innovation, of humanity, and show them independence.
Nobody avoids independence.
You show somebody resiliency and independence and autonomy, Every human on the planet is going to want a piece of that.
I don't care if you're a billionaire who's now become aware of how sensitive your food system is, your food chain.
You've seen 3,000, 6,000 mile supply chains disrupted with a pandemic.
I don't care how much money you have.
The grocery store shelf is still empty.
And so what are we going to do to decentralize the food system?
It's going to be through systems like this that we can scale up locally so that each neighborhood, every block, can have their own growing system.
The resiliency in that food system is out of control cool.
And we will solve the chronic disease epidemic by that one intervention of good regenerative food, access to real soil, that will clean up our air ultimately.
And so the Human Resiliency Fund For family offices, foundations, and large net worth individuals that are SEC certified, you can look into that fund.
It's exciting because with just $100 million, we can overcome trillions of dollars of old paradigm by making these targeted strategic and tactical investments to radically change the innovation space, radically change the And the human biology will respond so fast.
Mother Nature has got her hand and arms out to us.
She wants to welcome us back into a thriving state as a species within her womb again.
We don't need to solve the problem.
She already has the solutions.
We need to stop banging our head against her and realize that we are from nature, not against nature.
We are the result of the microbiome.
We are not against the microbiome.
We are literally the adaptive experience of the virome itself.
We would not be human.
We, in fact, could not have mammals without the intelligence of the virome having built our genome.
Our genome is the result of a direct insert of viral data, 52% of the human genome directly inserted from viruses over the last few billion years.
So we would not be here without the virus.
We would not be here without the health of the microbiome within us.
The paradigm is already there.
The science has already proven out.
Now it's time for mobilization and a coherent plan for the public.
And so that's my excitement, is we can just shake it off.
It's so easy to get stressed out about the powers that be, and you hear things about a deep state or a cabal or all these things.
We're in the driver's seat, literally.
We can keep going down their fear and guilt paradigm and play into the whole thing, or we can just create an alternative pathway And the whole thing, no matter how powerful it feels, is going to fall apart instantaneously because we simply extricated ourselves from that environment and we created the future that we want.
And so I'm excited that just like the innate immune system, different than the adaptive immune system, we don't have to fight against anything.
The innate immune system is an intelligent, adaptive machine that keeps us in a healthy relationship to biodiversity.
And in fact, it embraces biodiversity.
It never tries to kill a virus or kill a bacteria.
It looks to welcome that biodiversity into its environment.
We now just need to build socio-economic and political environments that look like that.
What if we invited every opportunity to create more biodiversity within our political thought process, within our societal patterns of behavior, and ultimately your dinner table?
When was the last time your dinner table became a natives for fellowship with biodiversity?
Think about that for your socialization.
And so this is how we create the new future nearly instantaneously.
How do you anticipate that Bill Gates is going to be writing you a big check for that fund?
Bill Gates is a huge opportunity because if you look at, you know, two months before the outbreak of the pandemic, we get a big Netflix series on Bill's brain.
Incredible timing there.
This is the most public thing that Bill's ever done is this Netflix series on himself and all the books he reads and all the Diet Coke he drinks.
And, you know, from a physician's standpoint, I watched that and said, wow, he is going to be very well preserved in the grave, because when you drink Diet Coke, it actually turns into formaldehyde, and so his tissues are full of formaldehyde.
So, hell, he may never rot in the grave.
Enough Diet Coke there for preservation.
But from a bigger standpoint, when you see him sitting down with Warren Buffett in the cafe, and he's drawing out on his napkin, like, well, we went in and attacked polio over here, but then it popped up over here in northern India.
And so then we...
We put people on bikes, and we got it suppressed there.
But then it popped up over here.
And he's playing this whack-a-mole game with polio in northern India right now because he's got this mindset of, like, I can outthink this virus.
I can outthink it if I can just do the right things and put enough money into it.
But what is obvious from my standpoint, with the radical explosion that happened in my old paradigm, if I'd watched that 10 years ago, one of them even thought about it.
Yeah, he's on a journey to try to beat polio.
What became so obvious while I'm watching that is the scientists that are advising Bill Gates and his funds handed him a two-dimensional chess board and he's trying to move the checkers around on this board in this two-dimensional plane and he can't win because the microbiome is a three-dimensional ecosystem Which is soil, water, and air.
The air we breathe, 10 to the 31 viruses.
The water that we bathe in, 10 to the 30 viruses.
The soil we eat from, 10 to the 31 viruses.
10 to the 31 is 10 million times more than stars in the entire universe.
These are massive numbers of viruses.
And here he's trying to beat it out with this little human strategy.
There is no human strategy for balance with the bio.
It's a biology strategy.
It's a Mother Earth strategy.
Humans are a tiny little piece of the puzzle.
And so I'm excited to handle Gates, a three-dimensional model.
I say, you know what?
You want to stop epidemics in India of any type.
Whether it's endemic polio or, you know, HIV or you pick your thing.
I can show you how to beat that in less than a decade by changing the innate immune system of that population.
We need to go into Africa with an innate immune system building program where we start giving microloans to individuals within Africa to build their own resilient food system.
We need to support these fundamental building blocks of human biology and the biology will figure itself out.
The microbiome, if the human cells can't be real, the bacteria definitely will.
There's a bacteria on the planet for every single toxin ever invented.
Radioactive material flowing out of Fukushima at a million gallons of seawater a day still pouring into the Pacific Ocean out of Japan right now, years after the event.
A million gallons a day of radioactive material dumping in, and Pseudomonas is gobbling it up.
Pseudomonas loves radioactive uranium.
And so it's so exciting that the microbiome has a niche to solve all toxic problems.
The reason we are not being detoxified by the microbiome is because we think they're against us.
And so we keep eradicating it with more and more violent efforts.
We're chloroxing every plane now.
We're literally on the most nuclear effort to destroy the microbiome in this pandemic that I could have ever imagined.
And for that, we will speed our demise.
But if we change our behavior, if we become a co-creative element within nature, we could blow up the paradigm.
Zach, I hate to let you go.
We'll do it again.
I got a million other questions for you.
And really, what a pleasure talking to you.
And please keep your mitts up, keep your head down, and keep fighting for all of us.
Right back at you, Robert.
I'm so honored to be on with you.
Thank you for your decades of promulgating for the human species and for Americans at large.
Thank you for who you are and I appreciate who you are.
Maybe we should run on that Bush Kennedy ticket and freak out.
