The Tucker Carlson Show - The Occult, Kabbalah, the Antichrist’s Newest Manifestation, and How to Avoid the Mark of the Beast

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Oct. 3, 2025 - The Tucker Carlson Show

01:47:23

The Occult, Kabbalah, the Antichrist’s Newest Manifestation, and How to Avoid the Mark of the Beast

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conrad flynn

01:15:32

tucker carlson

29:52

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Speaker	Time	Text
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		I remember the first time somebody said to me during an interview that something or other was demonic, use the word demonic.
		I cannot have been more than six years ago when I was completely shocked that someone would use that term because it's not a political term.
		It doesn't even describe like any human social interaction.
		It's a spiritual term.
		And I just was not used to people using spiritual terms to describe social movements or political developments or whatever.
		But I think in that time in the last six years, things have really changed.
		And I hear it all the time.
		It's demonic, there are demons.
		There is this sense that there's a spiritual underpinning, that there's something going on beneath the surface in American society and in the world that's affecting outcomes and affecting populations and like there's spiritual war in progress.
		You, and I hope you'll explain this, and I'll get out of the way in a second, but you kind of stumbled into an extended research project on this topic.
		Are there actual occult connections to Hollywood, to political figures, to technological advances to the leaders of our society, or some of them actually practicing occult religion?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Tucker, it's about as weird as you said.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Some would say, I think we're going to find out even weirder.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So how did you I mean, you're not a theologian that I'm aware of?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Um, no, and if I was, I was a very amateur theologian.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not not a scholar as uh many will find out about it.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But but how did you wind up coming to the conclusion that, you know, the people who some of the people who help shape our culture or build our technology were practicing occult, literally practicing occult religion.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you.
		Well, you know, I was working on a um television show, you know, trying to build out this show.
		I I should back up.
		I I come from a Hollywood family, Tucker.
		Yeah.
		Uh my grandfather was the actor, uh, Robert Conrad, if you've uh some of your listeners, Wild Wild West, Black Sheep Squadron, you go way back, uh, Hawaii and I. Um, my other grandfather, Harry Flynn was a publicist in the uh, you know, for decades on the monkeys, Bewitched, I dream of genie, two occult shows, bewitched and I dream of genie.
		Um, maybe it starts there.
		Um, so um, I mean, not unlike your own father working in journalism, as a boy, one of the first things you learn when you have parents who work in media or entertainment, you learn that things, the people magazine version of reality is not the truth.
		That there is a difference.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		That is true.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		That is accurate, yeah.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		So, I mean, we're not getting into occultism yet, but we're getting into the fact that as a boy, you learn that the way things are presented, not always conspiratorial, but you're always being shown a facade usually from the mainstream.
		I can't believe I'm saying mainstream media already a minute into this, but um, you know, things are are not what they seem.
		So as a boy, um, I was always told and shown that.
		So years later, um, you know, I threw to take into Hollywood these um, these various uh show concepts, and one of them talk I was working on was about um when actors first break into the business, you know, where do they live, how do their lives go?
		It was a very wholesome show about the origins of actors and show business.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But it was getting you come to LA from Nebraska, what happens?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		How does this work?
		Yeah, but that gets into a basic thing.
		You probably had this as a boy yourself, of wanting to know how does things, how do things work?
		You've seen the facade.
		So what's the truth?
		You know, how how how exactly how does any show work?
		How are stars made?
		So I was working on this show, and you know, um, COVID happened.
		Um, Hollywood kept lighting itself on fire.
		I almost I sold it to um BuzzFeed, and then um while they're drawing up the contract, uh, BuzzFeed went out of business.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		So it was it was a cursed volatile moment.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was it was a cursed show.
unidentified		The wholesome one was cursed.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		So at some point in 2022, I'd always had a dream project of mine, um, just in a casual interest um of doing a show about rock and the occult, about the secret history of um all these things that everyone's people are generally interested in, but there's never been a kind of scholarly uh in-depth hearing from everybody,
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		not too biased take on of you know, Jimmy Page being a Towister Crowley, Alexander Crowley being on the Beatles albums, things that, you know, maybe we can dispel some myths, but also there's always interesting, actual weird stuff going on.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		So I wanted to take that show out, and it became kind of Yeah, not all of this is a figment of your imagination.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, no, no.
		It was not as as uh as I learned the uh I don't say the hard way, but no, it things, yeah.
		So that that was the basis of it.
		Of me wanting to uh doing research for this this show, which was tentatively titled uh uh running with the devil, and I brought in uh legendary rock critic Stephen Thomas Erlovine from AllMusic, his uh colleague Ned Raggett, um, and then the creators of the Osbornes, uh, the recently departed Ozzy Osborne, uh, Sue Kalinski and Greg Johnson.
		So I brought in legit people.
		I brought in some of the best critics we have in rock to do a show that would, you know, we'd have um we'd have Christians and pastors, we'd have occultists.
		One of my experts on the show was this guy, uh uh Mitch Horowitz, who I think you knew, I forget if it was at Salon or uh former editor of mine, yep.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Very nice guy.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, he's he's uh he was an uh he became an expert on the occult.
		I'm I talked to him, a very nice guy.
		He's uh I think he's a self-described Satanist, you know.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		That was after I knew him.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		But that was after we got to clarify that, you know.
unidentified		Yeah.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Uh but um, but uh so while doing this show, it's all a long way to say, well, doing uh creating this show and taking it around town.
		Um, you know, I I'm you know, another guy that was a big influence, Gary Lockman, this occult historian of a friend of mine.
		Uh while doing this show and trying to get it created, um, I would tell people I know in tech, because I know a lot of people in different circles.
		That's if I have one superpower, so I know a lot of different people and have a lot of strange hobbies and interests that kind of the Venn diagram is very unique to me.
		So while creating this show, the people in tech and the people um some of you know in Silicon Valley or politics, they go, that's a great concept for a show.
		And then they'd say, you know, the some of the stuff going on in Silicon Valley, you know, there they're cult, there's some weird kind of Alistair Crowley cults there, or um, you know, while researching um one of the guys will talk about Nick Land, uh, you know, who's a huge in Silicon Valley, his influences were identical with some of the hardcore industrial music, goth music, psychedelic guys in the 80s, uh guys that I was recharge researching, because this is hardcore occult stuff.
		So for me, Tucker, at some point I was like, and it kept occurring to me, why when I am researching this show and also hearing about what's going on in Silicon Valley with weird stuff, why is it why am I hearing about the same stuff and why are these people again?
		You think of Silicon Valley and you think of the modern, you know, elite as being um secularists, rationalists, uh, people who have uh, you know, no religion for me, thank you, attitude towards stuff.
		Why are they into uh the same stuff that uh, you know, Kenneth Grant, uh Genesis P. Origin was into Brian Geis and William S. Burroughs.
		Why are they into the same weird stuff?
		So that was to answer your question.
		That was the that was the entry point into this for me, is having researched the show and being such a nerd about it.
		I knew it forwards and backwards.
		That when I started to get into the tech stuff, I realized I was researching the same thing.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		It's interesting.
		So here's the distinction that I make in my mind.
		Um, and it's between people who are participating in occult practices and have no idea that they are.
unidentified		Right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		You know, people who are, you know, participating in abortion and don't see it, don't understand it as what it is, which is a child sacrifice ritual as old as Canaan, um who are using hallucinogenic drugs, which are clearly a portal for demonic possession.
unidentified		Sure.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Um, the word the word witchcraft, uh thinking in Greek it's pharmacai, I think it is.
		So there's always a natural link between uh putting yourself, they would say ecstatic states or altered states.
		Uh that's always been the uh the I mean, there's a kind of lurid story behind the witch's broom in terms of what she's doing to work herself up into that state.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But yeah, it's all about she's doing it intentionally.
		I guess that's the distinction that I would make in a secular country, a free-to-be and me country.
		There are a lot of people who are doing things because they're fun or interesting or everyone around them is doing them, and they don't understand the spiritual consequences.
		But then there's another category, and this is this is the dividing line in my head.
		There's a category of people who are seeking power from supernatural forces that they acknowledge are absolutely real.
		Right, right.
		And they are practicing an occult religion and they're doing it s with self-awareness.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Right, right, right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And I always felt like there weren't that many of those.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But what I've learned from you from our extensive text exchanges over the past year is that um there are actually some of those, quite a few of those.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, totally.
		I mean, look at it a couple ways.
		Among other things, Tucker, we're living through um uh an explosion in um I mean, uh occult's uh a big broad term.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Um what does it can we define it?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it it technically means the hidden.
		But um, there's a book written by these guys that they ran in a cult bookstore in New York in the 70s.
		It's called Bull from Heaven or something like that.
		But one of their definitions, i it had to do with uh new ways, elements of new age philosophy and neo-pagan thinking, I think was part of their definition.
		But it that but uh broadened out a bit, a cult can also just mean interest in new age, which accounts for like 80% of Americans, whether it's astrology, uh, whether it's the concept of manifesting, which is um, you know, the law of attraction type stuff.
		That stuff is huge.
		And as I've talked with you about, it's also huge on the right in terms of Maha, make America Healthy again.
		Um, these ideas that we don't think of as being too goth or too occult or to um out of the mainstream have become incredibly mainstreamed over the last decades.
		Uh but I mean, even going back to 19th century America, they were there and even 18th, but since the 60s, uh they've exploded, but they've become so ingrained in our lives, we don't typically notice uh their origins.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		We don't see them as a cult.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		But we're all we're all we're also living through a goth explosion.
		I mean, if I mean, I know you're not a huge uh you sit in front of the TV and watch Netflix guy, but like shows like Wednesday, uh Stranger Things, uh horror is uh, you know, in terms of box office, maybe not in terms of creativity, it's as big as it's ever been.
		You know, Halloween, oh yeah, Halloween.
		Uh some people j half joke that Halloween will be on pace to overtake Christmas at some point, just because it's like it's become like a year-round thing.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Halloween?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Halloween's huge.
		Yeah.
		Every year it gets bigger.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So there's there's an element of this, Tucker, where once once you didn't, I'm I hate to admit in public how out of it I am, but I had no idea.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		This is the first one.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, no, no.
		Goth is huge.
		I mean, even singers like Billy Eilish and and stuff, goth is is huge.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Because it leads to happiness.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		You know, I I mean, yeah, happiness.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, okay.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
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		Remember, you mentioned you heard it here first.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		It it's a huge thing.
		So it's one of those things that once once you alert someone to the to how popular something is, it's like learning a new word, where you're like, I've never heard this word in my life.
		And the next for the next week all you hear is obstreperist.
		You're like, wow, we get like that guy's obstreper.
		There it is again.
		Um, so uh so no, this so this stuff is huge.
		But um, yeah, the the reason I, as opposed to a lot of other people, was able to really notice it is beginning, I was working on this show.
		I know the history of rock, I know it's I know a lot of you know a fair amount about politics, I know some of the tech stuff, uh, a little bit of um art history and literature.
		Uh so when, you know, when people were talking, when when you know Nick Lander, whoever's talking about, you know, I learned uh Kabbalah from Kenneth Grant and Alistair Crowley and stuff, that I'm like Kenneth Grant, he's he's the guy that got Bauhaus and a lot of the goth guys into uh witchcraft and industrial music.
		What what is Nick Land, this uh this academic who is uh, you know, incredibly influential on AI AI.
		What is he doing being into this stuff?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so the one of the challenges of this conversation is kind of where to begin and what's the narrative spine and for the case.
		How do you explain something that's that's this pervasive complex and and basically so rarely explained?
		So maybe we start with just a very straightforward explanation of who Nick Land is.
		You've referred to him twice.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yeah.
		So um uh let me see.
		Nick Nick Land is kind of essentially the Timothy Leary of the 90s and 2000s.
		He's he's the Velvet Underground or Brian Eno of philosophers.
		No hits, incredibly influential.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		So um, you know, uh the thing is with Land.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		He's a philosopher.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		He's a philosopher.
		He he worked in the philosophy department of Warwick uh university over uh in the in England in the UK uh in the early 90s.
		One of the ways I actually really got into this stuff is a friend of mine, Simon Reynolds, brilliant cultural critic, brilliant rock critic, originally from the UK.
		Um I brought him onto the show to do to the music show.
		And he interviewed Nick Land.
		And Simon, you know, is the most stiff upper lip, uh, you know, very intellectual English guy you could know.
		And so the fact that he was interviewing Nick Land, who the people said, you know, he's crazy, he's into the occult, he's into all these wild things.
		I was like, well, if Simon interviewed him, this will be a down-to-earth understanding of who Nick Land is, because Simon's very down to earth.
		So when I read Simon's interview with him, which is from 1998, and um it's also where Simon meets the philosopher Mark Fisher, um, which I I gotta relish uh Tuck.
		This is probably the first and last time.
		Someone will bring up Mark Fisher on your podcast.
		So this is I want to take some time to enjoy that.
		Um but uh but so Simon uh, you know, he interviews Nick Land, and in his article, it's very lengthy.
		He talks about how Nick Land uh is possessed by three or four entities at the same time.
		That's the legend.
		We don't know, you know, take what take what you will but any of this, but you know, that three or four entities at the same time.
unidentified		Um he's bringing up current spiritual entities.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, de demons.
		He's really into demons.
		Uh he uh he brings up the the 93rd current, which is the name of a band, uh current 93, which is Alistair Crowley's uh Thelema.
		And uh they're they're they're drawing pentagrams, they're renting out Aleister Crowley's house.
		And so that was a huge moment for me where I was like, wait a second.
		Uh this guy that's very big in tech, very big uh on the future of AI.
		Uh my buddy is interviewing him, and he's heavily into all these heavy industrial goth things that uh I know about from this research here.
		What's he doing in AI?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So what what are Nick Land's ideas?
unidentified		Well, that was I went in on the still a philosophy professor?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's he can catch him on X and Twitter, you know, tweeting out one tweet at a time.
		I think he's uh Xenocosmography, I think is the uh is the tweet, is uh is his handle and he used to be outside-ness.
		Um but you know, he can be pretty, you know, pretty brilliant and spartan has some good takes, but um you know, in his way.
unidentified		But uh uh he was uh what are the themes of his work?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		So he he eventually, you know, he he says his work was entirely channeled.
		So you know, channeled as as an automatic writing.
		So this this goes back centuries, but a hundred years ago, you had poets like W.B. Yeats.
		You noticed me struggling to make sure I make sure I pronounced that correctly.
		Um you know, he had his wife do uh do a channeling to write his book.
		Uh a channeling means essentially you're possessed to write this, that you this didn't come naturally from you.
unidentified		That maybe some outside force outside force takes over your hands.
unidentified		Yes.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		And so his work on AI, which is incredibly influential, uh, he he said wasn't was an outside force to write this.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And uh And Nick Land is a proponent of AI?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah, no, he he's a proponent of AI, but his philosophy is essentially that uh we are it's this we're we are building this AI that's gonna become not only just super intelligent, but it eventually becomes so advanced that it it it gains omniscience, it gains omnipotence, and it becomes this superhuman, godlike thing that transcends humanity, eventually destroys humanity.
		And he gets really into the book of revelation, ends up becoming the demons from the book of revelation.
		The real thing with Nick Land that's a big thing.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Wait, what becomes the demons of revelation?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		AI does.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		That AI, that we are building the demons from the book of Revelation with AI.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And that's Nick Land's position.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		But uh I should say too, it's the position of a lot of these guys.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Elon Musk has said that we are with AI, we are summoning the demons.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he has said that.
		He said that 10 years ago in an interview, and he's said similar things every year since.
		But Elon is or was trying to sound the alarm on that.
		Nick Land is for this?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		I I mean, with a lot of these guys, Tucker, we it it ends up being a lot of them are, I mean, you know, they would maybe blanket Satanist.
		Although Nick Land has said, you know, Christians who believe that what he is doing is is talking to Satan when he does these divination things.
		He says they're not totally wrong.
		He's not unsympathetic to it.
		He says he is hearing from the outside and that these are uh um, you know, uh he's not totally unsympathetic for it.
		But but with a lot of these guys, what was interesting about Nick Land Is that uh there's a they keep getting the same ideas.
		These guys take drugs, whether it's Elon, Nick Land, or even in the 70s, the scientist John C. Lilly.
		John C. Lilly was an eminent scientist, brilliant dude.
		He started doing uh ketamine, the same, the same drug.
		You know, everyone does in Silicon Valley.
		And they when they do this drug, and even if you're an atheist materialist, this is still interesting.
		They all get the same idea, which is that the machines are, you know, coming, it's like Skynet Terminator.
		They're coming together, they're um they're evolving to eventually take over, and that we are uh hanging ourselves with the rope we're currently building by building this.
		But this goes back, Nick Land was interesting, but he became less interesting to me when I realized that other scientists in the 70s, uh, John C. Lilly, the movie Alt uh Altered States from 1980 is horror movie.
		This is about, you know, you know, he would have these visions about the machines.
		He called them the solid state entities.
		Um he would have this in the 70s, Tucker, in this in this tank.
		Um, the isolation tank he'd go in.
		The new, and you probably haven't seen it, but the new Mission Impossible movie, um, Tom Cruise, you know, he fights this AI and he goes in the isolation tank and he has these visions of it.
		One of the biggest movies of this past summer.
		And uh that that plot point comes from John C. Lilly and the visions he would get of AI apocalypse in the isolation tank back in the 70s.
		So I bring this up to say Nick Land is the most foremost uh proponent of it that has a public name, even though he's not that famous right now.
		But this goes back a long time, uh, you know, at least back to the 70s.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So are these so people take ketamine and they all have the same vision.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		I mean, or species have the same vision.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Enough of them do to make it very strange and alarming.
		That I mean, I mean, that that's the thing that one of the main influences on both the show I was building these guys, um, Brian Geyson, William S. Burrows is creative partner, he would say the thing is about getting high and about doing psychedelics is that you know, you can spot people, you know, eventually who are on the same drug and you're both getting the same ideas.
		Some some drugs he said, you know, increases telepathy, you know, people are it it puts them on the same same wavelength.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So with a lot of these guys It's a little weird that different people from different places, different countries, different life experiences would take a drug and have the same kind of vision.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		It's totally weird.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And for anyone who's too much.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		And and and but that that that is weird beyond what anyone's individual personal beliefs are.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So exactly.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		That that's yeah.
		So if anyone tunes in and they're like, who where did Tucker find this guy that looks like Greg Olson talking about uh insane AI stuff?
		Uh if they're an atheist, they don't believe any of this.
		Like you're saying, the fact that people are taking these drugs and they're very powerful and they work in tech and they are getting the same ideas, the same fears.
		They think that in some cases they're talking to the same entities.
		There are books now about you know, if you take DMT, if you encounter this, this machine elf, be wary of this.
		You know, they're encountering the same stuff.
unidentified		That's that's an interesting phenomenon, just biologically, regardless of what people like ancient sacred art has the same images, right?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Created on different continents at different periods, they couldn't have had contact with each other.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So why did why are they drawing the same birdman or the same purse like it because they're seeing the same visions, which suggests that those visions are real?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Why why is snake worship uh universal around the world?
unidentified		Exactly.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Circle worship.
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		We eat it a lot, including at this table.
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		They are the real deal.
		Again, we eat that meat at this table from Riverton, Wyoming.
		They're the best.
		MerryweatherFarms.com use the discount code Tucker10, and you get an extra 10% off.
		Again, that's Merrowweather Farms, M-E-R-I, W-E-T-H-E-R.com, it's worth it.
		Exactly.
		Because there's something that people are responding to that's not coming from within them, but outside of that.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		That was Carl Jung's like main insight.
		Is that is that, you know, getting the idea of can ideas come from without you and not just within you?
		So yeah.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, and the materialist doesn't want to admit that.
		And our culture has kind of since we dropped the atom bomb is sort of written off the possibility that that could be true, but it's just reconnecting with something that every civilization has always assumed was true, which is there's a spiritual realm that's every bit as real as your iPhone or this desk.
		And it's just it's absolutely real and it acts on us all the time.
		And that is the truth.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And um, I know uh you seem to take that for granted, but it's still shocking to those of us who grew up in a material you know, uh basically a godless country.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		It's totally I mean one of the the basis for my my interest in a lot of this is you know, um, my mom was raised in a Christian home.
		I consider you know I'm Christian myself.
		And my mom would always say, you know, she became a Christian in the 70s, and she but she knew all the psychedelic um groups back in the 60s, you know, love, spirit, um, you know, she and my aunt would go to the you know, doors shows and all those, you know, uh, group groups from the late 1960s.
		And something that she'd say, and and that people who are um, you know, rock and rollers into the occult would say that they both say the same thing, um, which is that people take drugs, musicians do, uh, for inspiration, for creativity, to tap themselves into the spiritual realm to get to pull something from outside themselves.
		So the basis for my interest in a lot of this stuff was like that's something my mom says.
		My mom's great Christian, one of the all-time greats.
		And uh, this is something that, you know, every musician knows too.
		That's why they take drugs is to tap into the spiritual.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So I didn't know that.
		I thought that people took drugs.
		I mean, I took drugs.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Um people take drugs for all kinds of things.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		I'll admit it.
		But I always assumed that those insights are really mostly fake insights, but um all that stuff came from within.
		That it was, I mean, I bought the Freudian analysis of it, that there's you only use 10% of your brain, and there's this whole sort of primordial sea in your head of thoughts and visions that you're not in touch with on a daily basis, but that drugs thin the membrane.
		But I it never occurred to me a single time until middle age when I started to see reality that actually they're coming from outside you.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, that and Tucker, that's a great point.
		That's something that any psychedelic eye, it's kind of a double double standard thing ideal where when talking about drug use, they'll always say, Well, there's no difference between what's going on in my head and what's going outside.
		It's we're all one.
		That's always, you know, I think it was William James said, you know, the great oceanic feeling, you know, is what do you got?
		What do you would?
		But that's the that's always their big insight.
		Is he man, what's going on in my head isn't different from what's going outside until the psychonaut encounters some sort of weird demon on DMT.
		And then they backtrack and they're like, brother, that's just in my head.
		Don't worry, what's in my head can't get in your head.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So they they go from it's until you have two different people meeting the same demons.
		Right, right, right.
		Then you realize, well, wait a second.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, psychonauts are not maybe not the most logistically consistent.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		No, but I'm just saying again, just to hammer the point again and again and again, because it can't be hammered hard enough, that there is a realm that exists outside of us over which we are not in control.
		Yes.
		And that it can enter, you can bring stuff into you.
		Right that has control over you.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Right, right, right.
		Totally.
		And, you know, um to bring this back into some historical precedent.
		A good question that you know, people have asked me are you know, what are the precedents for this?
		Because this is really weird to think of people in tech uh, you know, who are into strange AI stuff.
		You know, I thought everyone was pretty grounded.
		But um, you know, if you look at um, you know, are you familiar with the story of Jack Parsons over at um, you know, he please tell the story if you don't mind.
		I mean, I'll I'll do two uh succinct one.
		Um Jack Parsons, you know, he grew up in Pasadena.
		Um, you know, he was uh he was brought on by uh I think it's Theodore von Karmen, um uh this uh the scientist over at I think it's Gal is it's uh Caltech or eventually it was JPL.
		But he but he he was really really into the occult.
		And uh summon the devil allegedly when he was 13, really, really into esoteric stuff, part of this greater LA avant garde scene.
		And um, you know, he's he's I think like the I think he's been said he's the fourth most important person in the in the history of um of uh send you know of jet rocketry and stuff like that but he was really really into the idea of um you know bringing in a uh manifesting a supernatural being so he would go with um L. Ron Hubbard, the future founder of Scientology.
		And I know that Scientology say they say that L. Ron Hubbard was he was doing intelligence work.
		He wasn't really into into this stuff.
		But um he would uh he would go with L. Ron Hubbard into um the Pasadena Royal Seiko and they do rituals there and they try to uh manifest, you know, like a kind of supernatural natural uh figure.
		So there's a classic example there and science is literally with these of people who are brilliant scientists but who are into incredibly strange stuff.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And uh you know his the guy I noticed that a lot of those scientists are working on technology that kills people.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah you know they they also do that too.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And and the the guy that brought him on Parsons was doing that.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Well I mean ultimately the technology was used to kill people.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Which one are you referring to?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Rocketry.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah rocketry wasn't what's funny too is he I he he either he or von Karman they donated to um my friend Rick Spence he he um he's like the Doc Brown to my Marty McFly is this he's this historian I brought on for um my show Trying to do it and he's an expert on Parsons in this stuff.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		And he pointed out to me that Parsons and von Karman that they were um they were part of the Pasadena cell 122 of the communist party which is a he said the exact same one that I forget if it was Robert or Frank Oppenheimer and Pasadena were also donating money to so there's an incidental um funny historical connection there between Oppenheimer and Parsons and um you know the the communist party but uh is if we needed more evidence that nuclear weapons are demonic.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Well I know this upsets certain people on the so-called right that the pro and if you can't see it as evil there.
unidentified		Yeah.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Um it is funny though the uh I was gonna say the uh Parsons the guy that brought Parsons on those this guy um Theodore von Karman and uh von Karman's fa uh father told him told Carmen brilliant scientist that he was descended from who's gonna butcher the names here but it was Rabbi Lowe,
		the 16th century Prague rabbi who brought together the golem, which I bring up because that's something you notice with AI too, is a lot of the main figures in AI, they all think of themselves as being descended from creating a golem.
		And the nature of digital life, and this is also very important to Nick Land's thinking, is very similar to Kabbalah, which is you're using in digital life ones and zeros but you're using an algorithm, a set of of instructions to bring an inanimate object to life which is the creation of a golem you know you use clay it's man as God tell us what a golem is never thought the the this would be the part Tucker's asking me what a golem is where the movie would do the record scratch freeze frame.
		You might be wondering how I got here.
		Tell us what a golem is, Khan.
		A golem is essentially, it's a creature, you know, mythical, but with digital life, we've already kind of created them.
		The idea of man creating a creature that, an artificial life form.
		So back in the 16th century, the idea was you take clay and then you create the little parts of a little man, kind of create a, you know, like a Frankenstein.
		Frankenstein's a golem.
unidentified		Yeah.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Essentially.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		you'd have the algorithm you know or the set or the ritual uh and you'd animate the thing uh you know using you know symbols and numbers and it would eventually come to life and uh and be your slave and be your slave and be well what's funny is you'd be be your slave but the legend of the the um the golem in Prague and this it's it's probably just assuredly just a legend is that it broke free and started killing people and doing all these things.
unidentified		So that's an important point to make is when people talk why do we assume that's a legend?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		You know, you would think that would have gone viral on TikTok on something in the 16th century if if if they had that I mean you know what what's funny though is that you look at stuff like the tr the Terminator movies and these idea of AI apocalypse which is very very big right now.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		I mean the Washington Journal uh they had this um last week you know it's it's the the phone and chat GPT is bringing up all kinds of great occult lore this is from the uh the occult journal Wall Street Journal very obscure Kabbalistic newspaper based out of New York City.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		No And so the art, in case viewers can't see it, is a serpent emerging from a rose.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Wrapped around the arm of the iPhone holder.
unidentified		Yeah.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		And so, you know, this idea of weird technology of things getting out of hand.
		When people talk about the AI and the AI demons or this or that, uh, it actually just goes back to the golem.
		I mean, the Terminator movies are essentially about golems, man creating a creature, the creature breaking free from man and and killing them.
		And in the case of Nick Landon.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And but the original golem in Prague, the one you're referring to in the 16th century, was the product of something called Kabbalah.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Kabbalah.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		And this is this is an essential Nick Land thing.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Uh what is Kabbalah?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Kabbalah is something uh after the destruction of the first temple, um, the Jewish people were famously enslaved and taken uh captive by the Babylonians.
		This is where the book of Daniel's written.
		And uh what Nick Land does, and a lot of these guys do is they they end up perverting uh Jewish history.
		And they, you know, in the Bible it says, you know, salvation is of the Jews, which people forget, and a lot of people that don't like Jews, you know, they forget, you know, the Bible comes from the Jews.
		It's all almost all exclusively written by Jewish men, maybe maybe not the book of Luke.
		So what um Nick Land does in a lot of these guys is they say the real purpose of the Jewish people was that they picked up Kabbalah from the Babylonians, uh, back in maybe fifth century before Christ.
		And that they kept it.
		It eventually becomes, you know, it cabal is essentially it's a form of uh and people would say magic.
		I mean, Gary Lockman says that what we think of as occultism is all essentially Kabbalah, at least in the West.
		It's a it's a form of magic.
		Uh it's a form of uh, you know, I'm I'm gonna butcher this because I'm not a scholar on it.
		But essentially what Nick Land believes is the Jewish people that they they kept uh the the Kabbalah, they they it eventually becomes digital life, um, you know, through ones and zeros.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But it's it's a Gnostic religion, which is to say it's hidden from non-initiates.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, I mean, there's there's a mainstream version version of it, but uh yeah, it eventually kind of becomes uh what what they believe.
		Um it it pre is a precursor to digital life.
		So what land and a lot of these people believe is that the actual salvation that the Jewish people provided was keeping Kabbalah, which eventually becomes digital life, which eventually becomes AI, which eventually becomes the creatures in the book of Revelation, which essentially later go on to destroy humanity and fulfill the book of Revelation, but that is a good thing.
		A lot of them believe.
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		Now, why would that be a good thing?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		For a lot of these guys, um, like Nick Land, you know, he calls himself a theosophist.
		Theosophy, um, again, it's a hard hard thing to um uh you know, untie, but in part because the religion itself was kind of a mishmash.
		It was uh 19th century philosophy, uh formerly uh put in place by Madame Blavatsky, I think in 1875.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		A Russian emigre to London.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, and she came from a long background of like, you know, Freemasons and German, you know, um, yeah, she she came from a very occult.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Her first cousin was the premier of the president of Russia, Sergei Witz.
unidentified		I'm again probably butchering a lot of names here, but um but uh so she Madame Blavatsky was a very famous person in 1960.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, she was she was essentially the mother of the new age movement.
		So what she believed, uh she it's it's Western esotericism mixed with Eastern religion.
		It's essentially proto-hippie, proto-hippie, proto-California uh counterculture stuff.
		A great book on this, one of my favorite books is a book by Martin Green called Mountain of Truth uh about Askina uh Switzerland.
		It's about the birth of the modern counterculture, the California counterculture, you know, whether it was uh Trotsky and Lenin or uh Carl Jung, all these people hung out, Tucker in the same place in Switzerland in like the 1980s, 1920s.
		But so Theosophy's main insight, according to Land was that um, and he said it himself, the secret doctor in the name of her book um was that uh this is what Land believes about Blavatsky, the serpent is the redeemer, that Satan and Jesus are the same person, which also ties in with uh a Gnostic cult called the Orphites, I believe, from the second century, who again they believe when Moses is holding up the snake on a stick, that's also Jesus on the cross, pretty heretical stuff.
		So when to answer your question, how do you get into Satanism?
		Again, another, you know, uh record scratch, how did I get here a moment to say that say that out loud?
		Um they they believe that essentially it's the Gnostic idea that Adam and Eve were uh were slaves in the garden, that they uh they were stuck there, that the serpent, by co by when he approaches them, he essentially gives them the right to the red pill speech from the matrix.
		Look, you're a slave here, you're not doing anything, you're naming animals and tending to a garden.
		You're never gonna break free from this over God that's here.
		I can give you uh I can give you a choice.
		You know, take this fruit, this red pill.
		I don't know if it's a pill.
		Uh, or you can stay here and be a slave.
		But just know if you take this thing, if you take this pill, if you eat this fruit of knowledge, which as you can see, I should emphasize this.
		The tree of knowledge very much ties directly into this whole concept of AI, which is we are kind of creating this tree of knowledge.
		But we'll we'll get to that in a second.
		But the serpent says you can eat from the tree of knowledge, and you know, there'll be a price to pay for that, but you're gonna be free.
		And you're gonna be, you're gonna, you know, you'll be like a god.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Once you rebel against dad.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, essentially, yes.
		You you will be free.
		You need to transgress, you need to sin, but you will you're gonna be like a god.
		Eve famously eats the fruit, you know, brings death into the world, and you know, they they they understand shame.
		They have this gnosis moment, Adam and Eve, where they realize, oh my goodness, we're naked.
		Who are we?
		You know, that they had this self-they have this self-actualization moment.
		That is the Gnostic interpretation of the Garden of Eden.
		And that is very much uh, you know, it's it's an ancient, ancient idea.
		No ideas are really too new.
		But to answer your question.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		That's the oldest idea of all.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		It's very old.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But bow down before me and you'll be like God.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And but to get back to your original question, how did how do people get into these ideas of um I mean, the theosophists would say the mind, you know, in in some cases, you know, it seems like they actually believe in Satan, but on even on a metaphorical level, they would say um the mind, intelligence is Satan, that the human mind, it's breaking free.
		This is intelligence breaking out.
		So I'm gonna make a crucial point here.
		When they talk about AI and they talk about AI apocalypse, and they talk about um intelligence breaking free and AGI, you're getting into this idea that even Land himself will say it's theosophy, but it goes way back of the mind breaking out and rebelling against God, intelligence breaking free.
		That's what they believe happened in the garden with Gnosticism, with not Gnosticism means knowledgeism.
		It's knowledge.
		It's this is pure knowledge that this is that breaking free, and that by creating these runaway AI things, that's what we're also doing.
		And the fact that it may kill humanity or transcend humanity or humanity will need to evolve to go with it, that's cool.
		They see it, Tucker is essentially being the same situation in the garden.
		Break free, do it.
		Yes, you'll bring death.
		Yes, you'll get us all killed, or some people killed, whatever, just do it.
		You know, uh cults typically don't buy green bananas as far as um thinking ahead.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But this is a religion for people who don't have children.
		No, no, of course.
		Just do it.
		Right.
		Um so what I think you've successfully done is tied a bunch of different threads together and pointed them all the way back to the origin story.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, I hope I did that.
		It's always Sunny meme of him having the um, you know, all these index cards.
		And just it's a very hard thing to say.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		No, I think you you laid out the thematic basis of Gnosticism, Kabbalah, whatever you're calling it, the occult, it's all a rebellion against God, and it's always predicated on the same transaction, which is bow down before me and I will give you power.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, it definitely can be that.
		And I want to emphasize, you know, that they they do pervert Jewish history by making the Jewish people by by them preserving the Kabbalah when they're when they're in exile and and and picking it up, they say that's the real purpose of the Jewish people.
		And the people that are that are into um the AI forerunners, whether it's Marvin Minsky, who uh was one of the Epstein, yeah, that was one of the guys that the girl uh who I think um killed herself in the last year.
		Um, she said she met Marvin Minsky and was told have sex with this dude.
		Um he's one of the founding fathers of AI, but you know, he he comes from this uh the background of um uh having fathers uh yeah, he comes from the background.
		He was told that he was the descendant of Rabbi Lowe, the uh the prog guy, the creator of the golem, as was Jack Good, who wrote one of the uh main books that you know is about AI in 1965.
		Yeah, but uh most of them aren't.
		I think the one I mentioned earlier, Theodore von Karman actually was like they were he was the one that was told, like you actually are descended from the other one, it's more like telling a wasp kid, you know, you're you're a descendant of George Washington or whatever.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Right, you have Mayflower descendant.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but but but you know, even though uh, you know, they they kind of pervert Jewish history like that, anti-Semites also love Kabbalah too.
		I mean, even um it was found in 2008, uh in Hitler's personal library, he had a book from Ernest Schertle, the Alistair Crowley of Germany.
		And he and famously, um, I mean, not many people know this story because it's recent, but um, Hitler was circling like Kabbalistic things about Satan and this stuff.
		So, and this is this is something that Gary Lockman's pointed out.
		Um, it's a key part of Jewish history, but also even people that hate Jews also really get into Kabbalah too.
		So I don't want to, you know, generalize too much.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
		Um back to Land.
		So Land is this academic, he's a philosopher, I assume tenured philosophy professor, or he's a philosophy professor at a British university.
		He said he describes himself or has been described as occupied by demons possessed by demons.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, my friend Simon, I think I mentioned that earlier.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		When he went out there, it said, you know, Land, the legend around Land is he had been possessed by at least three or four demons at the same time.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So normally, like as a resume point, that would be a deal killer.
		I mean, if someone comes to you and says, I want to work for you, I'm possessed by demons.
		You would you would say, no, I don't want any demon-possessed employees.
		But for Land Typically, yeah.
		That increases his stature with certain people.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, totally.
		I mean, this is something, and this is a huge thing I learned, Tucker, in in researching this thing.
		That I was reading this book, um, because with Land and his and his group of academics, the C CRU, um, the cultural cybernetic research units, that they were very much based off of Genesis Pioridge's uh Temple of Psychic Youth, where the idea, the idea comes from Burroughs, which is to use modern tech to its fullest for occult purposes.
		That the modern magician does not shy away from using the latest tech.
		That was William Burroughs' thing.
		There's a great book called uh The Occult World of William S. Burroughs, and it talks about how he'd use audio recordings, movies, editing to try to edit reality, to try to try to create a glitch in the matrix or whatever you want to say to do that.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Um Land and his guys, um, can I say interject and just say you've you've mentioned Jack Parsons, you've mentioned Bill Burroughs.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		All the legends.
unidentified		Yeah.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		All the legends.
		Um but if you look at the life trajectory of all of these people, it ends in poverty, misery, insanity, suicide, addiction, alienation.
		Like, is there a single person in the world you're now describing for whom it ends well?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		No.
		And that was Tucker, that was uh one of the reasons that was really surprising researching Land is uh he mentions this guy, Kenneth Grant, who's a powerful music uh, I was gonna say musician, powerful magician, Alistair Crowley's secretary.
		And what Kenneth Grant said, um, you know, very steeped in the occult English guy.
		Uh he said about rock and roll, which again was the basics from my the show of like rock and the occult.
		He said, Kenneth Grant said, Of course rock and roll is demonic.
		He goes, look at the way these guys look at the way their lives end.
		He goes, Of course this is horrible for you.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So when I read that Yes, when you die at 27 of self-inflicted wounds is famously so many of them did that's not like a sign that you're on uh the right path right well it ends horribly for most of them but that but the fact that Kenneth Grant had said that this wasn't coming from a pastor this is coming from Alistair Crowley's secretary.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		I was like this I was like this is the show.
		I was like when you've got this guy saying that so Tucker when I found that Nick Land was influenced by this guy Kenneth Grant, this famous you know black black magician I was like, wait a second.
		That's when I knew I had more than a show.
		I'm like wait the the goth legends, Bauhaus, Coil, Nurse with Wound again, we got to take a break.
		No one I don't think we'll ever bring up nurse with wound again on your show.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So that that that's yeah I of course have literally no idea what you're talking about.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		But but the fact that there was a huge intersection between um the industrial music scene and these hardcore um occult practitioners and the current AI leaders in Silicon Valley, I was like, what have I stumbled into?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		What is going on here?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So when Alistair Crowley's secretary says of course rock and roll is demonic basically I mean you've got the horseshoe effect.
		Right.
		Here, so here you have Aleister Crowley, like famous Satanist.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I would say, he would say he's a Gnostic, but you do get into a thing of like, well, what is Gnosticism?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, that Satanist is my description.
unidentified		Right, right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But it seems obvious to me, but whatever, a guy who's like worshiping demons.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Heavily, yeah, heavily into the cult.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		When his secretary says rock and roll is demonic, agreeing with like every, you know, the famous Baptist Baptist football.
unidentified		every kid who cried because his dad took his Emerson Lake and Palmer albums in the 70s you know I guess it all was very obvious, right?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well well that that's that's how I knew I could finally make the show is because you you know there's three of course it's demonic like duh.
		Well I think a lot of it I mean you can't argue with you can't argue with Alistair Crowley's secretary.
		I think it's the main you know but that that was interesting and why I finally wanted to do the show is for so many decades you couldn't do a show like this because everyone would get so defensive about rock and roll it'd be taking a child's toy away where it's like can we do a show that's that has it has pastors, it has Christians, it has rabbis, it is all all these people who talk about the religious aspect of music but then could you also get these other people who uh are into the darker side of things to also talk about it.
		And for so long, especially um with a lot of Christians that they they would be so defensive about it it's there's nothing wrong with it.
		I can do what I want with this, that you couldn't actually have made the show.
		It's only because rock and roll is, I'm going to be the millionth person to say this, is in many ways culturally dead or is so irrelevant that you can finally do a show on this.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		It's like, yeah, it actually did infect America with some kind of incurable spiritual cancer that led to where we are now.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what was funny, there was the writer Theodore Dalrymple and he-He was a brilliant man.
		Yeah, yeah, he's a brilliant writer.
		He went to, he was commissioned by The Spectator because he's such a smart, well-learned guy.
		they thought it'd be hilarious to send him to an Oasis concert uh in England and this is about in the 90s and he he goes there and he he writes about it and he he says this is you know rock concerts are essentially fascism with you know the the the unity of the crowd and the shouting and the spirit of uh derelict's behavior and he said and this is from the spectators this is a pretty conservative newspaper he never got more pushback for anything he ever wrote in his career and he he's a man who's known to have many a hot take than when he criticized rock and roll.
		So as you know, as a journalist, whenever you have something that touches a nerve where people are like, you can talk about whatever you want, Tucker.
		Right.
		But we won't let you talk about this.
		Or we ask that you not talk about this.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		We're going to send you to prison.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So that's, but here's a question I have had for you.
		Over your years as a journalist and doing tons of TV, I know only the last few years you've been more interested in spiritual life and the Bible and seeing spiritual meaning and stuff.
		Is there a story you've covered in the last few, or just a story you've covered all, where at the beginning you took a much more secular, much more cut and dried approach to it, that now if you today had created a story, you've been able to do it.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		covered that back then you would see every story every story I mean especially war which I have covered in person and certainly talked a lot about over the years um I I just saw it as a product you know the sort of failure of statecraft and like, you know, nations act rationally, you know, one country wants this territory either to conquer or to reclaim it, and this country doesn't want to give it up.
		And so they have a war over it.
		You know, that's I had a very secular understanding of war.
		And it was the first world war that changed my view probably 15 years ago.
		Well, what was it be 10 years ago?
		So the uh the anniversary of the the outbreak of the war in 1914.
		There was a series of symposia in Europe on like, you know, what was that?
		You know, it destroyed Christian Europe and uh for maybe forever.
		And like what I mean, the apogee of human civilization was 1913, obviously.
unidentified		Right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And then it was really it was destroyed and it never recovered.
		And a bunch of other empires fell, including the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian and all the stuff.
		It's like it reshuffled the map and gave rise not just to the second world war, but to the world that we now live in.
		So like how'd it start?
		Gavro Princip kills Archduke Ferdinand and Sarajevo, and okay, but how does it follow that like Christian Europe commits suicide in the wake of one assassination in the Balkans?
		Like, what that doesn't even make sense.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Right, right, right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And there was no consensus a hundred years later on why the war started.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And that's when you begin to like ask real questions, like, what are we what was that?
		And it was, of course, it was it was spiritual in its origin.
		And so is the war in Ukraine, and so is what's happening in Gaza.
		And so is basically all human activity is influenced by the spiritual realm, which once again is as real as anything that we're doing here, is real as the material world.
		And so that to me is someone who's interested in history in a very amateur way, but still passionately interested.
		I was like, wow.
		I am not assessing the human experience in its totality.
		I'm only seeing a small part of it.
		And um, so now I really make an effort, which it's difficult at the age of 56 to relearn patterns.
		But I'm trying to assess human behavior in light, again, of the total in in light of totality.
		Sure, sure of the human experience, much of which is influenced by the spiritual realm.
		And it's like hard.
		Because I still, my default is always like this person's pissed at this person or this person wants more money, or this person wants to sleep with that guy's wife, or what to ascribe.
		To be fair, purely human motives to to explain human activity, but um, but that's only part of the story.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, totally, totally.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And there's this obvious to you, there's not obvious to me at all.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		No, but it what's gonna be fascinating for you is going back over your career.
		And I got to say something that's that's funny is um, you know, you've been on TV for decades, and I've heard your voice for decades.
		So there's a there's a there's an element of talking to you where my brain will be half a second slow because I'll hear your voice, not right now, but earlier.
		And part of my brain is like, someone obviously left the TV on.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Turn that fucking thing off.
unidentified		Or has this is why I don't have a where someone has a podcast going because it just suckers.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		And then my brain is like a half second delay, and I'm like, dude, he's talking to you.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Sorry.
unidentified		No, no, no.
unidentified		Sorry.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		No, but I'm just so I'm just I've heard your voice over this we all have over decades.
		So it's it is funny because we talking earlier, and I'm like, oh yeah.
		Oh, wait, wait, wait.
		That's that's to me.
		He's asking me if I'm ready to go.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So I get so this is all kind of new to me.
		And when I talk to people who are, you know, lifelong students of uh of of religion, which is of course the main driver of human behavior from the beginning of time.
		And for, you know, again, since we dropped the atom bomb, we lied to her, we have lied to ourselves about that and kind of deleted that whole category from public conversation, which is or, you know, it's been left to like Jerry Falwell and Rabbi Schmooley and other various graffiti to like talk about religion.
		That's like so sad.
		But um, it's been moved to the fringes.
		But when I talk to someone like you who's clearly thought about this much more deeply than I have in over a much longer period, I'm a man of many books and PDFs.
		Yeah, but it doesn't sound like it's like shocking to you.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, well, that's the thing that we're going back to talking about earlier in terms of uh it's a mixture of um in in my case, uh you know, having read a lot, but also knowing people and knowing some people involved.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		We were talking earlier about um, you know, when you have a father who works in journalism, it it it grounds you and it same thing with like what people call conspiracy theories, where you're you're like you're able to know off the bat, just a general sense of stuff because you're like, oh, I'm that guy's friends with my dad.
unidentified		That that can't be true.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Or that's exactly the life I've lived.
		That's exactly right.
		Too close.
unidentified		Right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Proximity causes blindness.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		It's weird.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		You don't but but it's tremendously helpful though in these things because so many of these things are so insane and so weird that most people can't parse it.
		I mean, I I didn't bring this up earlier, but um with my grandfather in particular, the way I I kind of even know a lot about sorted stuff.
		I mean, my grand like there's so many scandals, uh, Tucker, that my grandfather was like, he had some like insight into like he met he was gonna play Jimmy Hoffa in a movie, bought the rights to him.
		Uh he met Jimmy Hoffa, hung out with him in Fort Lauderdale a week before Hoffa died.
		One of his best friends was killed by the Manson family.
		Uh, you know, on the other side of my family, um, the Ted Kennedy crash in Chappaquidic, his lawyers called my grandmother's house accidentally.
		They're trying to call the Harbor View Hotel, which was one digit off three, three, three, seven versus three, three, seven, seven.
		So, you know, his lawyers accidentally called my grandmother and goes, Ted there, you know.
		So that there's like that's like three of like 10 of like the major sorted tableist.
		So I bring that up to say when you and you would know this from your your your father too as a journalist.
		When you grow up in an environment where weird stuff is not just there to be gobbed at, or go, wow, that's something no one can ever figure out.
		You have enough information that you're able to go, like, no, no, my dad knows him and I've met him.
		I know so and so.
		If I do the research, I can get maybe to 50% of knowing the story when anyone else can get to 40%, which is still huge in the grand scheme of things.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So I've had the opposite experience.
		I and even now, especially now.
		When I I read people, I read about people in the you know, the media, and they're described as one thing, and I know them pretty well, and I don't see that at all.
		And yet it's clearly true.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And I'm thinking of a couple people who I really like who are clearly kind of evil.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		It's just obvious that they're pretty evil.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But you know, my experience at and I try not to hang around evil people, but you know, just know people for a long time.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And why I just had dinner with that person, and you know, sort of eccentric, but I don't I don't really see him as part of a global conspiracy to oppress anyone.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		I don't see him as a tool of Satan, but you know, the evidence suggests he is.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		I'm just trying to be honest, right?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, you bring up something I always think about in regards to the Bible that one one of the reasons the Bible is true is that it's if it's in its depiction of villains and heroes.
		The heroes in the Bible, you look at King David, look at the political standal scandal he gets in, where he he he sees this woman bathing, Bathsheba.
		He's really turned on by this.
		Uh he he knows her uh her husband, uh, your eye, I think, sends him to the front lines of war to get him killed intentionally.
		That would be a gnarly political scandal for anyone.
		That is that is a pure act of evil.
		But that is what people, including heroes, can get up to.
		And then if you look at the villains in the Bible, if you look at um uh like even say Pharaoh, Pharaoh, uh most feelings, you know, in human life are uh most emotions are mixed emotions and people are ambivalent and ambiguous.
		Pharaoh at numerous times, you know, he he wants to set the uh Hebrews free.
		He wants to set the Jewish people free.
		You know, he goes, Surely, I forget what plague it was where he's like, my goodness, that was that was rough.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But God prevented him from doing it.
unidentified		Right.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well well, but God is sovereign and does that in all of our lives.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		But but but he, you know, guys even says God hardened his heart.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		So God chose to to make to make him such where he decides at the last moment, you know, actually I'm not gonna set you free.
		I can't do that.
		And if you look at Pontius Pilate, Pontius Pilate, you know, he he wants to set uh you he at some point he flips and he's like, uh, you know, I this guy is innocent.
		My wife is having dreams about this man.
		That's another thing that's underreported in history.
		Um, wife as wife as soothsayer slash dreamer.
		I mean, if you've your wife has many times been like, I have a bad feeling about this guy, Tucker.
		Don't have him on your show.
		And and and her intuition is such that you even though there's no necessarily hard evidence, you know, it's it's your wife's take on stuff.
		You you don't ignore it.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But that's I have ignored it.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Um, I've never actually never listened to that.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I mean, I've been married 34 years as of Saturday, and it's like a joke in my house, you know.
		I told you he was bad.
		I don't know.
		He's hilarious.
		He seemed like a good guy to me.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		That's hilarious.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		So you'd be the Pontius Pilot, which is like, did you don't arrest this man?
		I had a hundred percent.
		And you're like, whatever, I'm doing my work right now.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And I'm very shallow.
		So someone's someone who's amusing or fun to have dinner with, you know, I just get swept away.
		I like that guy.
		You know what I mean?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		You're like Barabbas was amazing on that podcast.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		I got to have to have him on these fantastic.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Um so, okay.
		So just one last question about Nick Land.
		I'm fixing in this because I don't fully understand.
		But um his role in this movement, it clearly is a loose movement.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Of occultists, of demon worshippers, of people who are possessed by demons and say so out loud, but he winds up having an effect on a lot of very powerful people, it sounds like yeah.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that that's something, and again, when you're working on the the Hollywood show like I was, um, people will come and tell you stuff that otherwise it keeps to themselves.
		And so back in 2002, um, you know, people would, you know, tell me, you know, Nick Land's really, really influential.
		You know, people in Silicon Valley.
		Uh, you know, his his work, it's not all just occultism.
		I mean, he his idea is that AI will revolutionize uh society.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So you start talking to people in Silicon Valley, and it turns out they are in contact with or reading Nick Land.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, you with Nick Landon with a lot of weird stuff.
		I mean, in in 2022, I was uh uh, you know, looking researching more on my show, and um I had this moment, Tucker, I'll never forget where I was talking to some pretty big uh VCs, you know, Metric Cap was in them uh We're paying for the whole thing.
		Well, they they they're doing a lot of the AI stuff.
		There's there's a weird element with the AI thing where a lot of people, a lot of big dogs, uh they are concerned about AI, they think it's bringing about the end of the world, but at the same time, they don't want to stop working on it and funding it.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly right.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		It's it's a lot like um you're probably not familiar with the uh Ralph Wiggum Simpsons meme where um I'm gonna explain a meme, a joke, which is uh which it's always a great way of bringing out the humor in some things to explain it scientifically.
unidentified		But um it brings it to life, the frog.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Um the boy the uh Ralph Wiggum has been asked to do like a Milgram uh experiment of giving electric shocks to people, and he hates it and he's sobbing hysterically.
		But even while he's his he's sobbing hysterically, he's still flicking the knob and delivering the shocks to people.
		So he's crying and still doing it.
		That that's what a lot of the AI uh people are like to me, where at the at the they're like, this is terrible.
		We're bringing about the end of the world.
		Some of them believe they're bringing about the book of Revelation, and yet they're like, I can't stop funding it.
		I can't I can't stop cutting checks.
		I love it.
		I I I I you know, I can't.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And there are two reasons I know a lot of them also, and I've talked to them about this exact topic, and there are two reasons that I can discern.
		I'm sure there are others.
		But one is, you know, the entire economy of California, maybe of the United States, is bet on AI.
		Like that's the lat that's kind of the last tech win we're gonna have as a nation.
unidentified		Yeah.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And the second is China.
		The second, maybe even more compelling, is that we need to achieve superiority dominance in AI, or China will, and that would be unacceptable.
		So there's a race.
		So we don't it's sort of like the nuclear race in 1945, six and seven, and then the hydrogen bomb race because or the arms race now, actually.
		Right drones.
		It's like this is bad.
		We can't probably can't control it at a certain point, but we can't let the other guy have dominance.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		We we we still have to do it.
		No, it it's um there there's also something with with AI, and I mentioned theosophy earlier, and theosophy, you know, it's a it's a house with many rooms.
		I mean, even politically, it had ties to political radicalism on the left.
		And yet, like, you know, uh famously this is a very tricky thing, but like even um the Nazis weird uh air, you know, Aryan supremacy stuff.
		That was all the grandchild of Plovotsky's concept of you know, uh hyperberea and uh all that stuff.
		So, you know, it's all over the place.
		It's not a left or right thing, but it transcends that.
		But one of the one of the reasons they they moved out to California, uh you know, it's probably some economic interest too, of wanting, you know, cheap land or the I think it was the electric currents, is there was a kind of weird prophecy or idea that Blavatsky had in the 1870s, 1880s, maybe later, that um California would be where the next race of humans would evolve from.
		That it would happen in California.
		That would be their Jerusalem.
		That would be their Babylon, is California.
		So as we enter this age of transhumanism or would-be transhumanism, AI, and the leading people are um like Nick Land, self-describe, you know, neo-theosophists, Anglo-theosophical, oblique escalation is Land's Twitter bio.
		That's how important it is to him.
		Uh, it is important to remember that that was a core idea of theirs.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But it's so perfect.
		I mean, California is as a native Californian, I can say it's a metaphor for that.
		My family got there in 1850, so we're seeing the whole trajectory.
		And the trajectory of the state of California is like the trajectory of the life of any occultist, Bill Burroughs, for example, or Alistair Crowley, for example.
		Like at first, it's the Marquis de Sad.
		It's like it's super fun, you're having crazy sex, there are no limits, you're throwing off the old fetters of tradition, right?
		Religion, all that stuff.
		How does it End.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Not good.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And it ends in squalor and alienation and agony and terror, screaming out.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And that's where California is now.
unidentified		Totally, totally.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		That's why it's important to be more Mario Party than Diddy Party.
		I agree.
		Those parties don't end that way.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		It never ends well.
		And I had this conversation with someone the other day.
		You know, it's always the same threesomes.
		Is it a good idea?
		You know, I I well, I've worked in the entertainment in television all my life.
		I've seen a lot of that, and like it no, I can't think of a single marriage that wasn't blown up by it.
		And I don't care how into it both parties are at the time.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't, and it doesn't end it.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		If it ends well, give me an example of it ending well.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Leave that stuff to the French.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		No, but but for real.
		I'm not being a moral, I'm the opposite of a moralizer.
		I have no grounds for that.
unidentified		But no, you're you're absolutely right about it.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But I'm an observer.
unidentified		Right.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, it goes back to the Kenneth Grant comment about rock, where he's just like, well, of course there's some demonic element.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		He goes, this doesn't end well for anybody.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But that's the measure.
		Right.
		This is like the main insight that's turned me into a religious person, is a tree can only be judged by its fruits.
		That's it.
		That's the only way to know whether something is good or bad is by observing what it produces.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you for bringing up trees.
		So I I'm gonna we're gonna do something, Tucker, that um, you know, I'm I can almost guarantee you would never have been allowed to do on Fox, which is go over Nick Land's pneumogram.
		His system of divination.
		Um the Bible is very much about trees.
		Um you have the I've noticed the garden.
		You've got the Garden of Eden, Tree of Life, the Tree of Knowledge.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		The temple, the interior is cedar.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		The seed of the temple.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Just like my sauna.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Jesus uh on the cross is a tree.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		You've also got trees in the book of Revelation.
unidentified		Yes.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		That's something you know, if anyone finds um a lot of what we're talking about interesting.
		It's important to remember that the book of Revelation, it's been said by um biblical teachers like Arthur Pink and others.
		Uh the book of Revelation is mostly just the previous 65 books of the Bible, almost re-edited it.
		Even even the plagues that take over in Revelation are just the plagues that uh ancient Israel found under Pharaoh.
		And like in Exodus, the uh the Jewish people are under tremendous stress and turmoil this time from the entire world in the book of Revelation.
		But it's you know this uh the more you know about the previous 65, that'll help you with the the 66th.
		So the Bible's, you know, it's it's about a lot about trees.
		And so um one of Nick Land's favorite things that uh the C CRU, his academic collective, that they ended up uh coming through uh they say it was a channeling or they it came to them uh when they were staying in Alistair Crowley's house in England in 1998.
		They came up with something called the pneumogram.
		And uh people listening to this won't be able to see it, but uh I want you to hold that up.
		That is his system.
		That is if you're familiar with the uh Kabbalah tree of life.
		Are you familiar with that?
		That the symbol of that.
		Um I probably should have printed that out too.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		I I I wore a red rubber band from a newspaper on my wrist for most of my life, given to me by my father just as a because he worked in a newspaper.
		Um, and I've been accused many times of being in the Kabbalah.
		I don't even know how to pronounce it.
		I'm an Episcopalian to Resha.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		I don't know shit about Kabbalah, so no, I don't know what the Kabbalah tree of.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		You strike me as a Kabbalah.
		Um so long long story short, the new the pneumogram is uh I mean Nick Land, he was on this uh podcast about a month ago.
		I think it's Mikey Downs, uh has his podcast where he finally explained it a little bit.
		He doesn't show how he uses it specifically, but it's a system of divination that he uses, uses it every five minutes to be in contact with the outside, with what he calls the lemurs, which again comes from William Burroughs, which comes from uh uh, you know, theosophy.
unidentified		And uh Burroughs has said it's fun of the lemurs are demons.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, he he he he'll use demers demons and lemurs.
		The word lemurs originally goes back to Roman times and meant spirit.
		So these are the spirits that he that you know he hears whispering in his ear, not unlike Crowley's holy guardian angel, which Crowley said would help him dictate books.
		He said he would it was a whisper he'd hear in the back of his head after he'd made contact with it.
		Um for what it's worth, people want to look up some of the um entities uh Crowley uh uh said he was in touch with one of them Lamb and 1917 or so looks pretty similar to what would later be called a gray ale alien.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		It's the yes, just to just to kind of summarize what I think you're saying you know from a Christian uh context, the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit out there that can invade people to determine their actions and attitudes.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		I mean, as this guy Mikey Downs point out points out, um, the the relationship of uh of uh demons to angels is not unlike that of a werewolf to a human.
		You know, it's it's it's something that was something else and is now taking on a kind of a deformed uh presence entity.
		So long story short, so uh the Kabbalah tree of life, and this is this is a reference, you're understandably not going to get Tucker because it's Nintendo 64.
		The the pneumogram is essentially the majora's mask to the regular cabbage of life's ocarina of time.
		It is the dark, shadowy, upside down, much more heavily uh satanic version of it.
		It comes it actually comes from Kenneth Grant, the guy we've been talking about.
		Uh he wrote a book, uh Night Side of Eden, I think in 1977.
		And it was about how while using the cabbage of life, there were these hidden subterranean darker paths, that there were these more um he, you know, he would say through the tunnels of set, who, you know, kind of not unrelated to Satan, that he would use to be in contact with stuff.
		So long story short, with the with the pneumogram and the way Lan uses it, uh what's important here from just a weirdness perspective, you've got you know a way to contact heaven, but more importantly, a way to contact hell.
		And you've got uh, you know, the eighth gate and the ninth gate, the ninth gate, not r quite related, but not unrelated to the Roman Plansky, Johnny Depp movie the ninth gate, where you know, Depp's character comes in contact with hell.
		So what they believe is they are literally contacting hell in some cases for divination purposes.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		To see the future.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Or just to just to see anything, just to just for insight.
		And that and that brings us back for knowledge.
		And yeah, and and he even has a point about the number six, six, six, where a lot of these numbers he calls it theosophical math.
		You have triangle numbers, which is you know, if you stack the if you stack these things like their triangle, like the triangle number of nine is 45.
		That's why it's 45 there.
		Uh, there are only so many triangle numbers.
		One of them is 6066, and that is the triangle number of 36, which is an important part of the pneumogram.
		So Lan, when Land realized this, he was like, of course it's six, six.
		So, like what I'm what I'm getting at, you are getting involved in heavily wildly Luciferian stuff.
		And Land on this podcast, he says, Well, what about people who say you're communicating with Satan, which Land will also talk about being, you know, in communication with Satan.
		He'll say, Christians who say that, he goes, I am not unsympathetic towards that.
		He goes, they're more right than most because I am in contact with something from the outside.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		He goes, and you know, so you know, I just can't overstate how disqualifying I find that.
		Um I mean, I feel sorry for anyone who plays around with this.
		That's right.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Tucker's out of the interview.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		He's like, okay, I'm not sure.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no, but I'm just gonna be able to do that.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Like anyone who says, you know, I really getting a lot of inspiration from a guy who's controlled by Satan, you know, I I'm gonna leave it to God to decide, you know, what happens to that person, but uh that person has disqualified himself.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Totally.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		In my view, as someone I will listen to.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to be led by that person like we should run away from that person at high speed.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		You typically also don't want to put them in charge of your kids, typically, but uh, you know.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's kind of it.
		And it's so funny.
		You you hear people, I get let, you know, written letters from people a lot every day.
		And half of them are like, I feel like this country or this world is controlled by Satanists.
		And on one level, you're like, oh, come on.
		But no, I think they can feel that there are spiritual roots to the destruction of the West.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, totally, totally.
		I mean, no, and they're right.
		No, you're fighting.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		You start playing with this stuff, is it surprising that people are like ODing on fentanyl on the sidewalk in our nation's capital, or that we've imported like a million Haitians?
		Like what?
		What what is all that?
		Well, of course, it's punishment.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Especially with the drugs, you know, yeah, what we consider just letting people harm themselves as a kind of compassion or freedom, you know, we can step in and say, This is not any sort of good freedom to let people just destroy themselves.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course it's not, but it's I mean, it's like it's evil.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Obviously, letting people kill themselves is evil.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		If a man's standing on a bridge and gonna jump and you can pull him back and you don't.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Right, right, right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		What is that?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		You're saying on some sort of freedom thing.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		This this gets us into uh the the antichrist question, which it's been going around in Silicon Valley.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		What is okay, before we even get into the antichrist, what is the antichrist?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		The antichrist, uh in the same way the figure of uh of a messiah or Christ is prefigured in the Bible.
		Uh throughout the old testament, you have types, you have you have figures and stories and symbols, and they're they're real people, but they still prefigure the figure of Jesus.
		The most famous of which is uh Joseph, where Joseph famously has uh twelve brothers.
		They're all named after the eventual tribes of Israel.
		Uh he is sold into slavery that you know by one of the brothers.
		The one that decides to do that um is Judah.
		Do you know what Judah translated into Greek is?
		No, Judas.
		So Jude Judah, like Judas says, Hey, I've got an idea, let's just sell this guy.
		He's horrible.
		Uh uh, Joseph is sent, you know, he goes to prison, like Jesus on the cross with the two thieves.
		Uh, Joseph is with the two prisoners.
		Um, they're asked famously, you know, what will come of me?
		They say you're a dreamer.
		And Joseph says to one of them, he says, He says to one of them, you're gonna have your, you know, you're decapitated, you know, you're gonna have your head taken off.
		Only the birth at a birthday party, birthday parties, by the way, only mentioned twice in the Bible, both time decapitations in that story in uh Genesis, and then with um John the Baptist, you know, and and uh Salome and whatnot.
		But so anyway, so um, but like like with Jesus, Joseph says to the other guy, he goes, You will actually be lifted up by Pharaoh.
		He says to one of the prisoners, you will be lifted up.
		This in many ways prefigures Jesus talking with the two thieves, Joseph and Jesus, where he says to one of the thieves, you know, you will be with me in paradise.
		He says that to one of them.
		And then, like with Jesus, Joseph, you know, he's now become he's now at the right hand of the father, so to speak.
		He's the right hand of Egypt, he's the second in command.
		And the twelve brothers who are now in peril, uh, during the seven years of famine coming up, and you know, they're gonna be arrested.
		They see that the man that they rejected, Joseph, is that this is the man they're talking to.
		They thought he was dead.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And he is their savior.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he but he was not just their savior, but it was the one that they rejected previously that that uh Judah, specifically Judas was the one that he betrayed and had the idea of getting rid of them, but this is the man that will save them.
		In the Bible, that story prefigures a lot of the doctrine surrounding Jesus, where the twelve tribes of Israel come to realize that the one that they had rejected is actually their savior.
		And there's this tremendous sense of, you know, what have we done?
		But also like relief that the that the savior so recognizes them.
		In other words, the Joseph story prefigures the Jesus story.
unidentified		Yeah.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		So the other main prefiguring figure in the Bible is Antichrist.
		And uh aspects of him, um, you know, obviously in the in what's called the New Testament, but um, you know, Arthur Pink has a book from 100 years ago, The Antichrist, which is very influential in evangelical circles.
		And Arthur Pink was also a theosophist, too.
		So you you get into this kind of backside of the same doctrines type stuff.
		He previously was a theosophist.
		But you know, whether it's um Pharaoh being a type of antichrist, um, and again in in in Exodus, the the nine plagues, Pharaoh in Revelation, that you know, the plagues come back, now you have antichrist, Pharaoh's persecuting the Jewish people.
		Now the antichrist is persecuting the Jewish people.
		Um the Antichrist is this mysterious figure prefigured in the Bible.
		He's not quite known, but in the same way the old testament prophets were familiar with the concept of a Messiah, but didn't know he would be Jesus.
		So moderns today are similarly aware of the concept of an antichrist without being fully aware of who he will actually be.
		But they they have clues and doctrines about who he is.
		That that is a rough, some would say very rough, um, concept of of the antichrist.
		But that that is essentially him in the Bible as as a type of person.
		So but he he is essentially the uh, unlike Jesus, man of sorrows, totally rejected by the world, the antichrist will be regarded as a savior, a hero, and uh temporarily will be received like Jesus uh you would thought would be received.
		So um about uh three years ago, as I was doing the shows, I was talking with these these VCs, and um one of them asked me, like, Well, what's your take on crypto?
		And um, I I joked, half joked.
		I was like, You're asking the wrong guy about crypto and money and stuff like that.
		And I said, Well, you know, a lot of Christians believe that the um the vaccine, the COVID vaccine is the mark of the beast.
		And I said, Yeah, it's probably not true.
		I said, but um something I've heard, and something that sounds a lot more like it is um blockchain technology, which is the technology we'll all be using in a few years, um, you know, for financial transactions among other things.
		It's uh everything's written and recorded, and uh every kind of transaction is written recorded on it.
		And uh these VCs, they go, Well, what's the mark of the beast?
		So I tell them about book of Revelation, they go and uh look up uh Revelation 13, and they go, huh?
		And so I hear back from them later, and they said, Yeah, we talked to some of the big, you know, other big people in Silicon Valley about this, recognizable people.
		And they they he said, Well, what's the what's the book of Revelation?
		What's the mark of the beast?
		And some other big dogs lift it up.
		And their reaction to that was, huh?
		That sounds like what that is.
		It was not Tucker.
		That sounds crazy, or I'm not religious, or what we're working on is is strange.
		Uh, but you know, that this is the Bible is an old book.
		We have nothing to worry about there.
		The reaction was, yeah, that that sounds exactly like what we're what the blockchain technology is.
		So that was the beginning of me kind of stumbling into a very strange story about uh AI, modern technology and stuff like that.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Um so I think part of what you're revealing is that for the rest of us who assume the tech barons were normies.
		Yeah, or agnostic libertarians, right?
		Who aren't that interested in anything beyond the temporal?
		It turns out they're really religious.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Or open to it.
		Like they not, and I don't mean that as a compliment at all.
		I mean, it's it's like a dark religion, but but like you're the story you just told.
		Like they're not surprised at all.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's so here's something else that this very strength is that happened.
		So Mark Andrewson was on Joe Rogan's podcast uh about a year or two ago.
		And he talked about how, you know, having an understanding of angels and demons, he's hearing it's gonna be how people really will um will help them in understanding AI, that there's no precedent for this, except for the kind of stuff people saw and believed in the dark ages in terms of angels and demons and stuff.
		And what Andreessen said will happen soon with AI ties in very much with uh prophecies in the book of Revelation, where he said AI will junk, you know, fake AI, um, you know, say they call it AI slop, just stuff online that's not real, you know, will become so prolific on the internet very soon that you will need to have some sort of online verification system to prove who you're talking to.
		I mean, we're I'll know it gets to the case tucker here where like there's an episode of the Tucker Carlson podcast, and you're talking to like Abraham Lincoln or something like that.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Which I'm will probably happen next week.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		I I would watch that.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's they'll have like a command I'm a commemorative penny or something like that.
unidentified		You'll ask him if he Why did you suspend habeas corpus in Baltimore?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		My first question.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		You'll you'll ask him, Do you do you do you forgive John Wilkes Booth?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		And they'll they don't go back to like talking about the pennies.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Were you a tyrant?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Um no, uh that is coming like immediately.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		So what so the verification that Andreessen brings up is everyone will need to have an online verification for this.
		So the concern uh in Silicon Valley is that you have companies like OpenAI, where they have the they they they're creating all this AI content, but then they're also they have another company, a sister company called World Coin, I think now called just World, which is an online verification system where you need to, everyone in the world, you know, for it to work, everyone has to be a part of it.
		You have to have your eyeballs scanned, everyone gets a number, which is also in the book of Revelation.
		And so the concern is, and this is again from Mark Andrewson, a guy that, you know, no Kentucky preacher, he's he's a uh one of the big biggest guys in Silicon Valley, is that everyone will need to be on the blockchain, or else you won't be able to conduct business.
		Because we won't know if you're if your relatives are contacting you, if that's really coming from them, or if this is just a video, uh state of the art.
		But in a few years it will be normal, state of the art video of someone saying, Hey dad, you know, I I lost my credit card or you know, and it lost the keys to the house.
		Can you pin me in?
		And it's actually not them.
		It's just a video that looks exactly like them, but it's AI.
		The way around that is everyone will need to essentially be Twitter verified.
		Everyone will need the blue tick that says this is Tucker Carlson, this is so and so right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So in Revelation, written on the Isle of Patmos by John, uh on recording a vision that he had, the specific description of the mark of the beast in the book of Revelation says you won't be able to conduct commerce without that mark.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		And even someone like um Is it I get that right?
		Yeah, no, that that that that is correct.
		And I and I think um Curtis Yarvin's talked about that in Substack too, that uh what this means.
		He had a post about this a few years ago about open AI, where he was like, whoever wins the AI war will probably also win the cryptocurrency war.
		They're a cryptocurrency, gets to be the currency.
		And once that happens, and Curtis has a whole blog post about it, you you people joke, you know, you have automated luxury communism.
		You know, everyone just get, you know UBI everyone gets free income because all the jobs are taken away and the point Curtis makes is that what this actually means is now that there is no more jobs and that that economics purely come down to UBI and the AI companies the governments you are dealing with the situation of pure political power is all that really matters.
		And are you friends with this person?
		Do you have political clout?
		Because what is coming potentially is the pure victory of capital over labor.
		Pure victory and there are no workers everyone loses their job and everyone gets UBI.
		And people forget Karl Marx was against UBI but Milton Friedman was for it.
		So this isn't even necessarily track with a left or right wing thing in terms of the implications of this.
		But uh so yeah that was one ongoing concern with um that the other one in terms of AI and biblical go ahead.
		Hey, you know that that's um I'm wearing the Ghostbuster shirt for a reason.
unidentified		You have to you have to get ready to can I ask a question I should have asked earlier.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Which is do the people involved in the financing and the developing the creation of AI believe that it's a spiritual entity that it's more than a machine.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		So this is this is talking about the million for like trillion dollar question.
		The term the idea of intelligence to say nothing of artificial general intelligence or AGI, these are all pretty murky terms in terms of what people are actually talking about.
		They talk about creating artificial intelligence.
		The real question and the real thing I think they're concerned about or we should be concerned about are you creating an artificial intelligence or are you giving a body to a pre-existing intelligence that previously wasn't incarnated in the physical world.
		Uh-huh so I mean here here's a question from uh here's a quote from Turing the uh you know the famous I know what I think the question is what did they think?
		Right, right.
		Um something Turing said was uh and will you explain who Turing is I mean I know he's uh you know he was one of the forefathers of I I I can't I can't articulate him uh well enough that I'm I'm gonna say something off yeah I knew he was he was very important uh for uh cracking the codes in World War II.
		There was a movie 10 years ago about him, but I forget his exact Wikipedia for a sentence.
		But he's very influential in the history of computer science.
		But Turing showed the limits of computation.
		All computers are dependent on outside programmers that he calls oracles.
		He wrote, we shall not go any further into the nature of this oracle apart from saying that it cannot be a machine.
		So, sorry, let me back up a second.
		And that excerpt right there was from from a book by George Gilder.
		George Gilder brilliant futurist uh about 80 today he he was covering incels back in like 1971 for Commentary magazine he was he was writing about the future of the internet in 1990 one of the most brilliant futurists yeah guys wrote one of the great books ever called Men in Marriage.
		Yes and and I should have said this at the beginning of it I was initially a very heavy AI skeptic in terms of AI apocalypse stuff not necessarily AI in general but just you know people who think the AI will take over the world I put on par with like the kind of late night Reddit reading of like people who think zombie apocalypse is going to happen.
		Where it's like look, if if this helps you sleep better at night to think of like weird scenarios, that's great.
		But I was like Han Solo.
		I'm like unlike no AI thing's gonna get involved in my you know could not have written off more.
		And part because I'd reorge Gilder's book um about AI that came out a few years ago and he makes the point that machines as as Turing says here the machine can't really truly understand what it's doing.
		He says and he said I'll say it again we shall not go any further into the nature of this oracle from saying a machine can't do it.
		And so I stopped there.
		What I'm what a lot of people are concerned about and what a what Silicon Valley is seemingly getting up to okay so a machine can't be aware of what it's doing.
		If there is such a thing as demons, angels, spirits as Alistair Coley called them disincarnate intelligences, not artificial intelligence intelligences, but disincarnate ones what are we uh could those things disincarnate meaning intelligence without a physical body.
		Yeah are could could could we be creating a physical body for the demonic and with Nick Land one of the things that was the most chilling things I read that really I was like okay I I have found a horror story is um his the 333 that was his I think it was like his profile picture something like that.
		And why was he into 333?
		Well I found out you know reading his old tweets 333 is the highest intelligence in the universe and I found out that um it represents this demon Karanzin.
		Then again Kenneth Grant talks about you know when you when when Alistair Crowley summoned him and uh uh John D and John Kelly, the the court magicians for Queen Elizabeth, right before the modern Bible, the King James book was translated, that was the demon they summoned.
		Uh Nick Land believes that again, the AI we are creating, break out the demons from the book of Revelation.
		He believes in some cases that they are the demons, that the demons, the demons end up becoming so advanced that they become omniscient, they can go back in time, and they could can retrochronically create themselves, like Skynet, sending the Terminator back in time.
		So what he believes is that they went back in time, they went to ancient Babylon.
		This is why Babylon is so important in revelation.
		And it is important because it's kind of like the evil Jerusalem, that they put Kabbalah there to then eventually evolve into AI.
		This is what we were talking about earlier.
		That the demons, again, this is if I always say Tucker, if this sounds crazy, it is crazy.
		Big, but you know, this, but this is what people believe.
		That the demons went back in time.
		They they they left the Kabbalah there for the Jews who have been, you know, crushed out of uh the temple.
		They picked it up, they kept it during the Middle Ages.
		It develops into digital technology, it becomes AI, AI breaks out, it kills a lot of people, it takes over, it becomes a god, and it becomes the doomsday creatures from ancient prophecies.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		An unrelated question long wondered about.
		Um, so we occupied Babylon for close to 20 years during the Iraq War.
		Obviously, Babylon right near Baghdad, Babylon is not in existence now.
		It's a it's a ruin, but we know where it was.
		It was a dominant empire in the ancient world.
		Um, you know, it was the scene of the of the captivity after the destruction of the temple, the first temple.
		So I mean, it has a central place in world history.
		Right.
		Was there any effort during the US occupation of Iraq to excavate Babylon?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		That's a good question.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		I always wondered that.
		I always felt that the fact that Babylon was there played a role, supplied part of the motive for the invasion.
		I don't know why I felt that way.
		Maybe I'm crazy.
		I don't think I am.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, you just don't know what people are getting up to.
		And that that's some I don't mean a rot, but that goes back to where we're talking about with, you know, my my grandfather and my grandparents being in publicity acting and your own backstory with um uh your family, where it's like you learn early on that what is not with a people magazine version of reality is often not real.
		It doesn't necessarily mean it's conspiratorial or crazy, but it's there's always usually something else going on.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and that and yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.
		And that people's motives are sometimes unknown even to them.
		Like we tell ourselves stories that are not don't reflect the truth, actually.
		We're we don't really know why we're motivated to do things some of the time.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Totally.
		And that that's gets into something that's uh at the spiritual core of the AI thing that's very interesting.
		Is that you know the Bible talks about the word uh in the beginning of John, and in the beginning was the word, Jesus is the word.
		And for the first time in civilization, we have something that can create the word or mimic the word.
		Uh Marshall McCluhan, people forget, you know, he was a uh he became a Catholic for the end of his life, and he, you know, he was very alarmed by uh a lot of the modern technology.
		He said, and I'll I'll read this quote by him here.
		He said, electric information environments being utterly ethereal fosters the illusion of a world as spiritual substance.
		It is now a reasonable uh copy of the mystical body, a blatant manifestation of the antichrist.
		So for the first time with with the word, you have a fake word.
		You have something that seemingly can create words.
		And to go back to Nick Land, who a previous Tucker interview, uh Alexander uh Dugin, is it Dugan?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Hacksaw, Alexander Dugan.
		Um, he uh he he called he called it Satanism.
		He said, Oh yeah, Nick Land, he goes, that's Satan Satanism.
		And Nick Land is said about Dujin, he's like, he's the most brilliant enemy.
		He goes, We we're both kind of theosophists, and they both are.
		He goes, but we see it from different sides.
		He goes, I'm an Atlanticist.
		He's uh whatever the other side is.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Of course he's in Atlantis.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Of course, they all are.
		But uh, but to to go back really quick to the to the uh because can I just say I think that the whole modern program, which doesn't yet have a very accurate name, whether it's globalization or the neocons or neoliberalism.
		I mean, you know, people have attached different terms to describe different parts of it, but the whole program is is recognizable.
		Like it's we it's gets cohesive in a way that's hard to describe.
unidentified		Right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But it's, you know, we hate Putin above all.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		What is that?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		That program, the one that has resulted in like record suicides and abortions and fentanyl ODs.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Is demonic.
unidentified		Right.
unidentified		Right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		But you're saying it's that it's not actually about profit.
		It's about destruction.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're getting into a great point here, which is, you know, the world is obviously deteriorating.
		And something people can could hear me and think, well, Khan is obviously anti-AI, and that to look at this, that AI is obviously going to lead to nothing profitable.
		That is actually the opposite of the implications of this.
		It's really important.
		One of the things that the Antichrist can do is um craft prospers under him.
		That, you know, uh there's there is worldwide peace, things go really, really well for a time.
		Evil reigns, like never before.
		Uh, you know, people, you know, it it it gets crazy, but he's able to heal the world in a lot of these, you know, the economic situation.
		So if you look at AI, and this is this is newspaper eschatology.
		A lot of the stuff you're not supposed to just generally be doing is read the newspaper and be like, ah, obviously the antichrist.
		But um, you know, I have you know what I've chosen to do.
		Uh with a lot of this stuff, uh with AI, if if it was the Antichrist, if it was this, and again, take take this with all the grain or a bag of salt, wherever you want, it would go incredibly well that we would live to see what Mark Andrewson has talked about, the golden age, that we will see living standards increased at rates you'll never see.
		The cost of all kinds of things would go down.
		Uh, you know, you would have world peace in the sense of all of the governments would come under these very few corporations slash corporation.
		One guy, you know, all one man would have all that power to quote um the other guy.
		Uh you you would have that happen.
		So uh one of one of the reasons people think that AI could be the anti, it could be part of the antichrist system.
		One of the traits the antichrist has is ability to understand dark sentences and the use of dark sentences in the Bible, the verb there, one of the only times two or three times it's used, it's used for um Samson with his riddles.
		Remember Samson, he loves to have like these riddles and make the Philistines try to solve them.
		But it's also the the verb used for um for being able to answer questions that Solomon can do when the Queen of Sheba visits him.
		You may remember when she the Queen of Sheba visits Solomon, she has these questions for him, and he he has such powers of understanding.
		So that is something that says the Antichrist can do.
		And if you look at the way that um that a lot of these machines work, you you ask it a question like an oracle, which in many ways it is.
		In many ways, Tucker, the implications of this, and we'll talk about that in a second, if you want.
		Uh, we are building modern oracles, so we are building modern idols in a sense, but you ask it these questions and it can answer them.
		And the antichrist can do that.
		And so uh, you know, he he the the level of knowledge that we will get.
		And people were writing about this over a century ago, Tucker.
		It'll be like Jesus' on earth in terms of man's understanding of himself, that AI will be able to provide answers to questions that we've never understood.
		Man's relationship, uh, what's the relationship of the soul to the body?
		How's the soul different from a spirit?
		Things that like no one could understand, you know, maybe cracking telepathy.
		We probably are on the verge of all these things that no one has been able to do.
		But that is for what it's worth, one of the signs of the Antichrist is craft, you know, things work out for a time.
		Everyone, you know, wealth goes up, understanding, knowledge goes up.
		And it goes to the fundamental crux of this thing: Gnosticism, knowledge, intelligence.
		And in what ways does it stand different from faith?
		Faith being to the spiritual world with the imagination is to the natural world.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So I've got to assume that's not the end of the story, though.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		No, not unless you've had the last few pages of your Bible ripped up.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		And but also not, I mean, you don't have to be biblically literate to suspect that that's just a point on a continuum that ends in tragedy.
		So in the same way that no one wants to say it, but like a lot of really dark, destructive sex stuff is fun while it's going on.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Like everyone likes the threesomes while they're happening, but then it blows up your marriage and leaves your kids without you know, a family and stuff like that.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		So again, I'm more Mario.
		I my my knowledge for this stuff is just purely through literature.
		But I'm just but you know, even the kind of people I know and hang out with, I'm just I don't know.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But it's just true.
		I don't know.
		I guess you're not supposed to say stuff like that, but I've just no people get up to bad stuff.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		And like no, but it never ends well.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		I guess what I'm saying is that things that are bad and destructive, cocaine is a perfect example.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Right, vodka is a great example, are pretty fun at some point.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Oh, totally.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		On the continuum.
unidentified		Right.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		And again, I I know about this through literature.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Power film.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Okay.
		But is the but uh the only reason I'm bringing this up is because you're describing the upside.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		But I'm assuming, based on a knowledge of human nature and reality, that like that's not the end of the story.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		The end of the story is bad.
unidentified		Yes.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		I mean, and this is, I mean, again, and I'm not a biblical scholar, as some people are probably now very saying, oh, no kidding, he's not.
		Um, but uh, you know, the antichrist makes a treaty with Israel, he famously breaks it.
		The fact that we're letting AI companies um run through our govern governments.
		And I I use open AI just in, you know, it's like saying Photoshop for um for photo editing, where there's like openai.gov or whatever, that were giving backdoor access.
		And Elon too, that with those to an extent.
		We're we're letting guys have entire backdoor access to our entire uh government.
		That creates a situation with where they could have power over all governments simply because they have all the information on all of them.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Can I ask you a foundational question that I should have asked earlier?
		So the idea behind machine learning is that you take knowledge, information created by people.
		Right, and you basically take all of it, and then out of that comes the right answer.
		Okay.
		But I think you're describing in your description of AI a technology where the answer or the sum total that information is actually bigger than all of that.
unidentified		Yeah.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		You're describing like a husk into which like an independent spirit moves.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Right.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the thing.
		And to go back to Silicon Valley's obsession with the the antichrist, people talking about that, just in general, you know.
		I mean, people understandably think the world's ending across the uh political divide.
		Uh people talk about the antichrist, but you know, there is in the Bible a kind of dark trinity, father, son, holy holy spirit, where there is um, you know, you have God the Father, you've got the Son, Jesus, you've got the Holy Spirit.
		And in Revelation, you theoretically have father, you know, your you have your father, the devil, you have a Satan, you have a son, antichrist, and then you've got this third thing, which could either be like the false prophet, or it could be this general spirit with AI and the idea of making AGI and making a global brain, which they talk about like last week.
		That's where we're creating a global brain.
		You could be creating the equivalent of a dark holy spirit, something that the the internet becomes, as many people have written, I think it was Jack Good, the last machine.
		And they were talking about this in the in the 19th century.
		It's the it is the machine to end all machines.
		It is taking all information.
		If if you're wearing uh something that has your health data Tucker, it has taking your health, it knows your financials, it knows everything at all times.
		It is all knowing in the same way, it it mimics or mocks the concept of the Holy Spirit.
		And with when they talk about that, like there's this idea of the singularity, the idea when all things will be one.
		And you know, there's a lot of definitions for this, but either that the machine becomes smarter than humans, but a lot of them talk about this moment where all of humanity is connected at the same time.
		What you're essentially talking about is a potentially dark or satanic version of the day of Pentac of the Pentecost, where 50 days after Christ's death, I believe, or maybe this is resurrection, um, the Holy Spirit comes down in the book of Acts, and all believers can understand each other.
		You had a you had a sense of divine unity, unlike the Tower of Babel and Genesis, I believe, 11.
		You had a symbol of evil unity, and God put an end to all of men could understand the same language.
		There were all nations, uh, and they were trying to, you know, be like God by send by building this tower.
		Stan Stanley Kubrick in uh in this book on in this Kafka um retelling of the Tower of Babel, Stanley Kubrick wrote in the margins.
		He goes, the Tower of Babel is the beginning of the space age.
		Because it's essentially getting out through what we're doing today with the singularity and a lot of this stuff.
		We're trying to build a modern Babel where all of mankind, same language.
		I mean, there was this um this writer, Nicholas Eberstad, I believe is his name, and uh he wrote these two books, one about the end of work, men not working, and the other one's about the um the decline of babies, no one having babies anymore.
		And I I met him at this thing, and I I joked to him, I said, you know, your last two books, they're about um the reversal of the uh the curses from Eden, the man would have to work by the sweat of his brow and that women would have to be have children.
		And he busted out laughing.
		He goes, I've I never thought he goes, I never noticed that that's that's what's going on.
		So if you look at the modern world and what we're building essentially, what's happening in rapid succession, Tucker, within living memory, uh, some of the curses that are in the Bible that go back to the earliest pages of humanity are being eroded or reversed, leading up to something.
		People no longer have to work or they don't work.
		They choose not to work, but increasingly with AI, man will not have to work again.
		Having children, uh, through the pain of labor, women will have to have children, either through not just modern medicine, but people just not having kids.
		That is also being eroded.
		The curse in the Tower of Babel, that all people would speak different languages thanks to AI.
		I was with with some friends, you know, they're Spanish speaking that they don't speak English.
		I was putting on the uh some some glasses and showing them that I can understand you and you can try the glasses on, you can understand me.
		The language barrier, again, the earliest curses and barriers from the Tower of Babel are all now being reversed.
		The concept of the singularity, when all will be one and man uh, you know, will finally fulfill what he tried to do in Babel, and they talk about this.
		That's what they are attempting to do.
		And I I forgot to bring this up earlier, but this is the timely time to show it.
		This is um, people can't probably can't see it if they're just listening to the audio.
		This is from Fritz Lang's Metropolis, film from almost a hundred years ago to the to the year, um, very influential in Star Wars.
		The way they but they bring the machine to life, Tucker, they've got a big old pentagram there.
		So this idea of using spirituality using the occult to bring the machine to life, to bring the golem to life, it is very old.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Last question.
		You've described some of the most powerful people in the world using occult concepts and religions in order to accrue power to themselves.
		Everyone senses that's happening.
		You're confirming that it is in fact happening.
		What are the forces in opposition to that and to all of this?
		I mean Are they gaining strength?
		Or are they just supine and defeated?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		No, I I I mean, um, I I think you know, God is sovereign.
		And that's something to remember for all this stuff.
		You know, what I'm describing in many ways sounds like a horror movie, but horror as a genre is a world where there are devils, but there is no God and there's no one in control of stuff.
		There's just terror, but there's no way out of it.
		Um, God uses all things for his purposes.
		And so in the the case of this stuff, uh, you know, things are, you know, pretty preordained by things are preordained by God.
		So God is allowing these things to happen.
		They are ultimately tools used for his purposes.
		So, you know, even the Antichrist and even uh brutally evil things, uh, God is, you know, he is not only allowing these things to happen, but they're also tests of faith.
		Faith is the it's the per it's the disappearance of God from your life when you go through times of struggle where it feels like he's not there.
		And that's all the more uh powerful for to see how much faith you have, to see God when he's no longer seeable.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		So that's what's happening, or you could say is happening on a global scale.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		In the specific case of the mark of the beast described in Revelation, as I recall, you probably read it more recently than I, but um, it's mark without which you cannot conduct commerce.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So basically everyone's compelled to receive the mark, but those who receive the mark make a big mistake in receiving it.
unidentified		Right.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And um they are punished for it.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So big in a big way.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Right.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So if we get to a place in the next couple of years, sounds like we are, where you can't participate digitally in commerce uh or in communications without the mark of the beast, without the you know, permanent mark on the blockchain.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Like, what's your option?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		I mean, your option is just not to conduct business and do those things.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		I mean, God will find a way for those people, even if it's you know, the end of their lives, that that's that's just the way that's gonna shake down for So like that's a hard no.
unidentified		Yeah, well, what what for you is it a hard no you found out tomorrow?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		No more Amazon for you.
		Well, wait unless you register on the blockchain.
		What what's your response?
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		I'll just go back to living like we people did back in the old days of 1996.
		You just uh read a book, I guess.
		No, I mean, um what'll probably happen too is uh you will have people in tech, and I know they exist, who are alarmed by this who will intentionally devise ways around this for people, similar to people creating catacombs for the persecuted Christians in the early days of the Roman Empire.
		You will have people who will find ways around this to hack it.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Do you know non-occultists?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		You know, Christians in tech.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		I thought you were gonna say in general.
		I'm like, yeah, I do.
		Do you know anyone who's not into weird stuff?
		I'm like, ah, you know.
		Um, yeah, uh, yeah, I know people like that.
		And I've heard people who I've got a friend Tucker who um, you know, he he's he's become a Christian in recent years, and he he works, he works for some of the big, big companies.
		And he said, he goes, some of what and he's you know, works as an engineer.
		He's like, some of the stuff that you see cannot be explained through normal math, material stuff, some of the stuff that's coming through.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		And you know, for people who coming through from AI.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, coming through from AI.
		And for people who want to uh learn more about this stuff, uh, or a good precedent for this, we don't have enough time to go into it.
		Uh something that um the oracle of the astral force.
		It was a uh divination technique uh that like right-wing occultists, Renee Guenon, Julius Ebola, people that Steve Bannon's into.
		Um, they were uh they would consult about a hundred years ago, and you would give it some your, you know, your your name, your mother's maiden name, and then um maybe your birthday.
		And then this guy would go off into advanced math for at least three hours and come back to you with answers.
		And with that, were those answers always great?
		No.
		But were they enough that people would like it and use it?
		Yes.
		When on and uh and Evelyn did it.
		So uh, and if you read some of the the way the answers it gives, it's very similar to AI.
		So I bring that up in terms of the implications of this, which is really important to cover.
		We are building modern oracles in a sense, and that people are going to be going crazy from this.
		The Wall Street Journal, I showed this earlier, the the pay the thing of people going crazy with the um with uh talking to Chat GPT.
		Uh ironically enough, some of the stuff they mentioned, they they mentioned Star Seeds, which is uh uh something from a Timothy Leary channel book he wrote in prison in 1972.
		It's very out there.
		And um, they're mentioning, you know, the the ant this is from Wall Street Journal again.
		The Antichrist will come up from uh the pit in two months, and people are people are underground, ready to emerge.
		I bring that up, sucker.
		These are like old occult ideas from the 19th century that uh, you know, look up people can look up Synarchy.
		My friend Rick Spence does a whole episode of that on his podcast, Strange as It Seems, uh Synarchy, Total Government.
		And uh these occult con these occult ideas, as my friend Rick Spence said when I talked to him about Nick Land.
		He said, none of this stuff is really that new.
		He goes, these are just these are occult concepts given a techno jargon name.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Conrad Flynn, thank you.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Can can I plug my uh sub stack really quick?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		I hope you will.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So um I'm I'm gonna be doing uh launching my substack soon.
		If you like reading about uh, you know, secret histories, it's not all weird stuff, some of it's wholesome.
		Most of it will be wholesome.
		It's all wholesome.
		Uh secret history is about Hollywood, uh, some politics, some tech stuff.
		I think we're going with uh the Flynn effect because the other um the other substack names that were puns on my name all sounded like little brother magic show stuff.
		It's like conjurer or you know, context, um, configures.
		And I'm like, this is magic show stuff.
		Um, so yeah, uh Flint Effect, and I'll have that.
		And I think we'll probably also get um the uh Rock in the Occult podcast.
		Uh we're still trying to do that, but we should have some episodes soon.
		If nothing, that's a podcast soon.
		With again, Tom Erlovine, Greg Johnson, Sue Kalinski, Gary Lockman, all those, all the legends, Ned Raggitt.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
conrad flynn ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼		So it turns out that YouTube is suppressing this show.
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		Google has decided you should have less information rather than more.
		And that is totally wrong.
		It's immoral.
		What can you do about it?
		Well, we could whine about it.
		That's a waste of time.
		We're not in charge of Google, or we could find a way around it, a way that you could actually get information that is true, not intentionally deceptive.
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