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May 3, 2024 - The Tucker Carlson Show
13:10
The U.S. Hates Hungary. Here’s Why.
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tucker carlson
04:43
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tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
So let's say you're the president of the United States of America.
It's a big, complicated, hard-to-govern country, but there are certain advantages.
You've got a big population, 350 million.
You've got an enormous country, an entire continent, cut off from the chaos in the rest of the world by two oceans.
And you have deep, deeply abundant natural resources, most fertile farmland in the world, some of the biggest energy reserves in the world.
It's not that hard.
To have a prosperous country.
Let's say, by contrast, you run Hungary.
Hungary is a landlocked country of only 10 million people, less than 10 million people, in the middle of Central Europe.
It's also flat.
And that means if you're marching from west to east, or much more likely from east to west, you march across Hungary.
And it's been the way for, of course, hundreds of years.
So the question, if you run Hungary, is how do you keep it a distinct sovereign country?
How do you keep it Hungarian?
Now that's a trick.
Don't try that at home.
It's very, very hard.
And yet somehow they've done it.
And if you look at it in those terms, what's happened in Hungary, or more precisely what hasn't happened, it hasn't been invaded by anybody, is a miracle.
In fact, it was last invaded by the Soviets, and they were kicked out over 30 years ago, and they've kept it pretty well sovereign despite their NATO membership ever since.
And the key to that really is the prime minister, Viktor Orban.
But he's not the only Orban who is keeping Hungary Hungarian.
Balazs Orban is his political director.
He is very much a public intellectual in Hungary, also a big political player, and a writer.
He's got a brand new book called Hosser Cut, The Hungarian Strategy for Connectivity, which is out right here.
And we're honored to have him join us in studio.
Thank you for coming.
unidentified
Thank you very much for inviting me.
It's good to be here.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
So, I'm so struck having been to Hungary a couple of times.
And of course, I don't speak Hungarian.
I'm an utter outsider.
unidentified
You don't have the secret code.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
I don't have the secret code.
I don't have the IQ to speak Hungarian.
But it's a very kind of moderate, normal country.
It would have been unexceptional in 1985, I think, in Western Europe.
unidentified
Is it an offense?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Is it what?
unidentified
Is it an offense?
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
It's not an offense at all.
unidentified
Thank you.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
It's wonderful, actually.
It's a time capsule in that way.
But the Hungary that I hear described in Washington from the diplomatic community and the foreign policy thinkers is a terrifying fascist theocratic police state.
There's no resemblance at all to the Hungary that I've seen.
So why the disconnect?
unidentified
You have to understand them as well because Hungary was occupied many times and now we just regained our sovereignty.
It's an old nation.
Culturally, it's an island in the middle of Europe.
It's a very proud nation, proud of our history and language and the geography.
And we like to keep it that way.
Pretend that we are sovereign.
We have the right to decide with whom we are going to live together and with whom we are going to be together in an alliance system and how to govern ourselves.
And this is something which is a brand new issue for the contemporary liberal elites in Washington and Brussels.
They are not used to it.
But if you take sovereignty seriously, then you have to practice it on a daily basis.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
I thought the whole project of liberal democracy was designed to create sovereignty.
In other words, the liberal democracy, as they did, the people rule.
And the majority rules, but with respect for the rights of the minority, and you have differing opinions, but ultimately countries get to make their own decisions.
We don't believe in imperialism.
So you're living that, and your country are trying your best.
Why are you hated by the people who claim to represent those values?
unidentified
What I want to describe in a book is that, you know, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, when you had the unipolar word movement, It wasn't about liberty.
It was about one ideology based on neoliberalism overtake everything.
And the idea of end of history promoted by Francis Fukuyama is not about creating sovereign nation states all over the world, but creating a globalized system based on an ideology, on the same ideology.
The same ideology has to be followed by everybody who wants to be integrated in the system.
If you are not, then you are kicked out.
This was the word order based on neoliberalism.
And we hope that this word order is over and something new is coming based on, let's hope, national conservative ideas, based on national sovereignty, based on mutual trust and respect.
This is the only way.
How we can survive and we can avoid third world confrontation.
And listen to what the Liberals are saying, the same intellectuals.
Francis Fukuyama is talking about that the end of history will come, but before, prior to that, we will have an ultimate fight against authoritarianism.
Ideas, democracy versus authoritarian regimes.
This is going to be the ultimate fight before heaven arrives to earth.
So for a central European year, when you grew up in a Marxist communist environment, it's very familiar.
You know, the Marxist logic is very similar to that.
This is dangerous.
This neoliberal world order, if we are not fighting back.
Not only inside the West, but all around the world, then we are going to have serious confrontation in the upcoming decades.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
But of course, the perversion of language is what strikes me first.
I mean, Frank Fukuyama is an authoritarian, obviously, and you're practicing something much closer to democracy than he is.
In other words, in your country, Hungarians get to decide how Hungarians want to live.
And in Frank Fukuyama's...
which I think is pretty close to fascist, some body of non-Hungarians decides how Hungarians live.
So how does he get to pretend that he's for freedom and you're for tyranny?
unidentified
This is the power of intellectual life, which was very strong and very strongly promoted by the United States liberal elites for a long, long time.
And now countries are starting to wake up inside the West and also outside the West.
If you travel and you travel a lot, you probably see that many emerging countries, many developing countries.
They are very much optimistic because they see a bright future.
They think that the next generation will have a better life than the previous generation.
And they are confident that they have their own value system.
They have their own way of thinking.
They have their own way to be successful.
And they want to stick to that plan, want to maintain their sovereignty.
And they are optimistic about the future.
In the meantime, in many Western countries, you see the opposite.
Everybody is frustrated.
Confidence disappeared.
Everybody is afraid of what will happen with the next generation.
And those who were in control, at least intellectually, but probably also in a political field, for this project, what started after the collapse of the Soviet Union, this neoliberal project, they are afraid.
That they are losing power and losing influence and they are getting more and more harsh because of this.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
Very harsh.
Almost Soviet, actually.
I hate to say that because I feel ashamed to say it, but it's true.
unidentified
But, you know, it's like I think America has every country has a job to do in this changing world order.
Hungary, other countries, but also United States of America.
You have to come up with a strategy and how to be Successful how to make America great again, if you want to translate it into political terms.
And in this environment, you have to be able to collect friends.
And only eye-to-eye discussion, mutual trust and respect, open communication can build an alliance.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
You're describing that famous piece, The End of History.
By Francis Fukuyama in 89 or 90, something like that.
Right around the time the Soviet occupation of your country ended, your boss, the Prime Minister, was famously a dissident against Soviet occupation, against tyranny.
And so the United States was extremely popular, and the vision that the West had for liberation, I think, was popular in Hungary.
unidentified
Of course.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
How long did it take for you to realize that Neoliberalism was not the same as freedom.
unidentified
I would say 20 years.
20 years, because...
Because at the beginning, obviously, for those countries who were deliberated, and we are very thankful for the United States to be on our side.
And the United States as a country is extremely popular in Hungary, and the people are very much loved there.
And we are very proud that we could regain our freedom and liberty.
10-20 years, we realized that this kind of neoliberal world order, which is a way of globalization, which is a way of governance, which is a way of thinking about what life should be lived by the people, this is not good for us.
This is not who we are.
We want to be integrated, and we did integrate into the Western system.
We are members of the European Union.
NATO. But we want to have our way of life.
And the neoliberal ideology and the foreign policy by the big empires or big powerhouses based on pushing forward this neoliberal ideology is not something which fits for Hungarians.
And it's not an intellectual work or intellectual realization.
Probably this book is about that.
Everyday grassroots people, they do feel the same.
I don't know if you remember, you know, the BLM. When you have to go down to your knees before the football or soccer game starts.
And this thing became very popular in Europe as well.
And when the English football team came to Hungary to play against Hungary, the team was full with children, not with adult people, 30,000 people.
And when the English team went down to its knees...
Then the Hungarian children started booing all the 30,000 people.
Not because they are racist and they don't like anti-racist ideas, but because it's far away from our culture.
This is not our culture.
Our culture is different.
Our problems.
So it's a product of cultural imperialism.
And I can give you many examples like this.
So people and countries all over the world, they are starting to realize that no one will save you.
You have to be able to save yourself.
This is the world we are living in.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
One of the ways it doesn't translate, I don't think, or is intentionally misinterpreted is on the question of Russia.
So my read, just as a visitor, is that Russia is not very popular in Hungary since the Soviets occupied your country and killed a lot of your people.
Not that long ago.
unidentified
Of course.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
But in the Western press, but Hungary also needs energy from Eastern Europe, including Russia.
But in Washington, Hungary is often denounced as like a tool of the Kremlin, or Putin and Orban are so close.
Why do you think people say that?
unidentified
Russian-Hungarian history is extremely complex and complicated.
It's full of history, full of suffering.
tucker carlson ▲ ● ▼
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