The Tucker Carlson Show - Tucker Carlson - Pastor Doug Wilson is the Christian nationalist they warned you about.
Aired: 2024-04-15
Duration: 08:22


=== Running Against Christianity (06:09) ===

[00:00:00]  So if you're Joe Biden standing for re-election at the age of 81, the obvious question is, what exactly are you going to run on?
[00:00:05]  You're not going to run on the state of the economy.
[00:00:07]  You're not going to run on the state of the world, which is increasingly chaotic.
[00:00:09]  You're not going to run on lengthening life expectancy because actually life expectancy is declining in the United States under his watch.
[00:00:17]  So what are you going to run on?
[00:00:18]  What are you going to run against?
[00:00:19]  And the main thing Biden is going to run against is Christianity.
[00:00:22]  Running against Christianity.
[00:00:23]  He's already put people in prison for praying, so it's not a stretch.
[00:00:27]  But of course, you're not going to say, I'm running against Christianity, the world's largest religion.
[00:00:30]  You're going to say, I'm running against something called Christian nationalism, which was a way of making traditional Christianity seem like a threat to the country rather than the principle upon which it was founded.
[00:00:41]  So that is their plan.
[00:00:41]  They can run against something called Christian nationalism.
[00:00:44]  And in this, they have the full cooperation of Hollywood and the media outlets, which are whipping up the population.
[00:00:54]  Well, most of us, even those of us who pay some attention, aren't really sure what Christian nationalism is.
[00:01:00]  Is it a product of what it sounds like, which is some branding meeting in the basement of the DNC designed to make Christians seem really scary if they believe in God?
[00:01:09]  Maybe.
[00:01:10]  We decided we would ask the person most closely identified with that phrase, Christian nationalism.
[00:01:16]  He's one of the rare American Christian pastors.
[00:01:20]  Who is willing to engage on questions of culture and politics.
[00:01:24]  And for that, he has taken a lot of grief, but we are honored to have him.
[00:01:27]  His name is Doug Wilson.
[00:01:28]  He's the pastor at Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho.
[00:01:31]  He's the author of several books, including a book called Mere Christendom, The Case for Bringing Christianity Back into Modern Culture.
[00:01:39]  And Pastor Wilson joins us now.
[00:01:41]  Pastor, thank you very much.
[00:01:42]  It's an honor to be here.
[00:01:43]  Thank you.
[00:01:43]  Thank you.
[00:01:44]  So I was not opposed.
[00:01:46]  I'm sincerely confused by the phrase Christian nationalism, which seems like an attack on Christianity to me.
[00:01:53]  What is it to the extent you understand it?
[00:01:55]  And are you a Christian nationalist?
[00:01:57]  So I'm willing to be a Christian nationalist because I prefer that.
[00:02:03]  What do you usually get called?
[00:02:07]  White supremacist.
[00:02:08]  White supremacist?
[00:02:09]  Slave advocate.
[00:02:10]  Oh.
[00:02:12]  Racist.
[00:02:12]  You know, all the theofascist.
[00:02:15]  So the left really does hate Christianity.
[00:02:19]  Yes.
[00:02:20]  And with the phrase Christian nationalism, even the part of it that's coming from the left trying to wrap that around our necks, that's something I think I can explain.
[00:02:30]  I can say, yeah, yes, but.
[00:02:32]  And then explain inside of two minutes.
[00:02:34]  May I just ask before you, and thank you for doing that, and I will listen rapidly because I really want to know.
[00:02:38]  But just to clarify the terms, is that a phrase that you or people with your beliefs came up with, or was that a phrase that was leveled against you?
[00:02:46]  Well, both.
[00:02:48]  Canon Press...
[00:02:52]  Located in Moscow, Idaho, has a streaming service called Canon Plus.
[00:02:56]  Canon Press published The Case for Christian Nationalism by Stephen Wolf.
[00:03:01]  So that was our embrace of the term, okay?
[00:03:04]  And Stephen Wolf wrote a defense, a scholarly defense of the whole thing, the history of the whole thing.
[00:03:10]  So we embraced it to that extent.
[00:03:12]  But then on MSNBC just a few weeks ago...
[00:03:16]  There was one of the talking heads there that said, anybody who believes that rights come from God and not from Congress and not from the Supreme Court is a Christian nationalist.
[00:03:26]  So anybody who, you know, making Thomas Jefferson a Christian nationalist, endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.
[00:03:34]  So anybody who believes that, according to the left, is a Christian nationalist.
[00:03:39]  And there is a developed...
[00:03:43]  There's a set of arguments in defense of that phrase that can be, I think, pointed out in short order.
[00:03:50]  Trying to defend other things they call you is like putting lipstick on a pig.
[00:03:56]  It's not going to be any good.
[00:03:59]  But this is something that people can say, oh, I love my nation, and I'm a Christian.
[00:04:05]  Why can't these?
[00:04:06]  Well, that's how I feel about it.
[00:04:08]  I don't know what it is.
[00:04:09]  So how would you define it?
[00:04:10]  So it's, I think, very simple.
[00:04:13]  If there is no God above the society, if there is no God above the state, take God away.
[00:04:20]  Yes.
[00:04:20]  The state is God.
[00:04:21]  Yes.
[00:04:22]  Okay?
[00:04:22]  If there is no God above the state, the state is God.
[00:04:25]  The state becomes God.
[00:04:27]  And it assumes the prerogatives of deity.
[00:04:30]  You know, cameras at every intersection.
[00:04:35]  Aping omniscience, omnipresence, big brothers watching you.
[00:04:40]  Control of your mind.
[00:04:41]  Control of your mind.
[00:04:42]  They want to control absolutely everything.
[00:04:44]  Every keystroke, they want to control everything because they're aspiring to deity.
[00:04:48]  The reason they're aspiring to deity is because they don't recognize any God above them.
[00:04:53]  Our current rulers don't believe in God, but they do believe in the devil.
[00:05:00]  And their belief in the devil is why they want to ascend the sides of the north.
[00:05:04]  They want to be as the most high.
[00:05:07]  That was the initial temptation in the garden.
[00:05:09]  You shall be as God.
[00:05:10]  Yes.
[00:05:11]  Okay.
[00:05:12]  So our current rulers are very ambitious and they want to aspire to that height.
[00:05:18]  We don't want to resist them in the name of Christ because we don't want to launch another series of interminable religious wars.
[00:05:27]  Right.
[00:05:27]  Okay.
[00:05:28]  Because we don't want the Muslims fighting with the Jews, fighting with the Christians, fighting with all of that.
[00:05:35]  All right.
[00:05:35]  So that's the most reasonable question.
[00:05:37]  When they say, which God?
[00:05:40]  And here's the answer to your question.
[00:05:41]  The Christian nationalist is the one who's willing to answer that question and speaking into the microphone.
[00:05:47]  The true God.
[00:05:49]  The living God.
[00:05:50]  The one who exists.
[00:05:51]  Yes.
[00:05:52]  Not the God on our money.
[00:05:55]  How do you go back to a system based on Christian assumptions in a country that's no longer Christian?
[00:06:01]  What you do, and this is...
[00:06:04]  You invite a preacher onto your show, you're going to get some preaching.
[00:06:08]  Hope so.

=== The Law Condemns, But... (02:13) ===

[00:06:09]  All right, so there's no way, there's no way to do it outside of God raising up preachers who preach a hot gospel and church planting.
[00:06:18]  There's no way to do this politically.
[00:06:21]  You've got to make the country Christian again.
[00:06:23]  That's right.
[00:06:24]  Basically, we're in such a mess that there is no political solution.
[00:06:29]  All right.
[00:06:29]  We're beyond hope.
[00:06:30]  There is no political solution.
[00:06:32]  The next election, however happy it might make us for 10 minutes, is not going to fix everything.
[00:06:38]  That's right.
[00:06:38]  Okay.
[00:06:39]  Our disease is radical and it's spiritual.
[00:06:42]  We've got a radical leprosy.
[00:06:47]  The United States needs to repent of its sin, to use an old-fashioned term.
[00:06:52]  We need to repent of our sins, our arrogance, and turn back to God.
[00:06:56]  That's what is necessary, and we need preachers who are willing to tell them to do that, to proclaim that this is what you must do.
[00:07:04]  And they must not do it in terms of law, like thou shalt, thou shalt, thou shalt.
[00:07:09]  The law condemns, but the gospel liberates.
[00:07:13]  So the law brings in judgment.
[00:07:18]  Well, the law makes us aware the rich young ruler is made aware of his lack.
[00:07:23]  He's made aware of his sinfulness by the law.
[00:07:26]  And then you turn to Christ.
[00:07:28]  And what Christ offers is full, free forgiveness.
[00:07:31]  But forgiveness with him now in charge.
[00:07:35]  So forgiveness is not what Bonhoeffer would call cheap grace.
[00:07:39]  It is a radical death, burial, and resurrection.
[00:07:42]  Alright, so this is what the Easter season is all about.
[00:07:45]  Death, burial, and resurrection.
[00:07:47]  And the Bible tells us that when we look to Christ, we are crucified in faith.
[00:07:53]  We're crucified with Him, we're buried with Him, and we rise again from the dead with Him, and we ascend into the heavenly places with Him.
[00:08:02]  We are made participants of the virtue of Christ by virtue of His death, burial, and resurrection.
[00:08:08]  So America needs Jesus.
[00:08:11]  America doesn't need to turn over a new leaf.
[00:08:14]  America needs a new life.
[00:08:16]  Free speech is bigger than any one person or any one organization.
[00:08:20]  Societies are defined by what they will not commit.