The Tucker Carlson Show - Candace Owens Responds to Ben Shapiro
Aired: 2023-11-16
Duration: 09:03


=== Ben Shapiro Attacks Candace Owens (04:21) ===

[00:00:00]  The internet was dominated yesterday by video of Ben Shapiro, who you work with at the Daily Wire, I think it's fair to say attacking you.
[00:00:08]  Here's the video.
[00:00:08]  I just want to get your reaction to it.
[00:00:11]  Yes, and then the question is about Candace Owens.
[00:00:13]  I think her behavior during this is in distress.
[00:00:16]  And that is it.
[00:00:25]  Yeah, I think she's been absolutely disgraceful.
[00:00:27]  I think that I think that her pro-sophistication on these particular issues has been ridiculous.
[00:00:32]  It's not pro-sophistication.
[00:00:33]  It's ridiculous.
[00:00:34]  Everybody can see the moves that she's making and the things that she's saying.
[00:00:37]  And then I'm going to distract you.
[00:00:39]  So maybe there's a point in the video he explains what exactly you did wrong and how you were wrong.
[00:00:43]  I haven't seen it.
[00:00:44]  But to call somebody, quote, absolutely disgraceful, particularly a co-worker, seems like a pretty big step.
[00:00:50]  And I really don't know the background here.
[00:00:51]  What is that about?
[00:00:53]  You know, there isn't much of a background.
[00:00:55]  I saw the video when everybody else saw it when I woke up.
[00:00:59]  No one warned you about it.
[00:01:00]  Nobody warned me about it.
[00:01:01]  It looks like maybe he didn't know he was being recorded.
[00:01:03]  It looks like it was some sort of a private event.
[00:01:05]  I got no clarity on the issue that he was particularly speaking on.
[00:01:09]  And in what was said, I also can't respond to it beyond what he's saying because it's just ad hominem attacks.
[00:01:17]  I don't know.
[00:01:17]  Yeah, because it's not, you know, we disagree or, you know, I don't think she's correct or maybe she doesn't know what she's talking about.
[00:01:22]  It's absolutely disgraceful.
[00:01:24]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:01:25]  And so I can't respond to it on a level of intellect because there's nothing that he has expressed in that, at least in that short clip, that he fundamentally disagrees with in terms of what I said.
[00:01:34]  But I will say that I'm not going to respond with the same ad hominem attacks.
[00:01:39]  I don't think it helps further discussion.
[00:01:40]  And if that was me that was caught on a video saying that about colleagues that I work with, I would be embarrassed.
[00:01:47]  So I think that the video speaks more to Ben's character than it speaks to mine.
[00:01:51]  Does he text you to apologize or explain or anything?
[00:01:53]  No, nothing.
[00:01:54]  I haven't heard a single word.
[00:01:55]  It just was sort of something that he said.
[00:01:57]  And you know what?
[00:01:58]  Ben and I have many disagreements.
[00:01:59]  So I don't think that that's particularly something that's interesting.
[00:02:03]  We disagreed on the COVID vaccine.
[00:02:05]  We disagree on Ukraine and Russia.
[00:02:06]  He has taken virtually every stance that has been the opposite of mine on every issue over the last five years.
[00:02:12]  So I don't think that that's particularly remarkable.
[00:02:14]  Really?
[00:02:14]  I didn't remember that.
[00:02:15]  Yeah, he was pro the COVID vaccine.
[00:02:17]  I was anti-the vaccine.
[00:02:18]  You know, we were all idiots for not getting the vaccine.
[00:02:20]  So that's totally fine.
[00:02:21]  I am totally open to people having a difference in opinion.
[00:02:24]  I would hope that amongst colleagues that it would always be a civil disagreement.
[00:02:29]  And I would never in a private event stand on a table and talk badly about Ben.
[00:02:34]  It's a little weird.
[00:02:34]  So he was on the left on those three biggest issues of our time, is what you're saying.
[00:02:38]  He has converted his opinions.
[00:02:40]  He's accepted responsibility.
[00:02:41]  He said, you know, I was wrong about the vaccine.
[00:02:42]  Oh, good.
[00:02:43]  He is, you know, obviously pro-pharma.
[00:02:45]  His mom's a doctor.
[00:02:46]  And I say to people, I'm very aware of my perspectives on big pharma, and I talk about it on my show openly.
[00:02:51]  And I think that that's a tremendous credit to the Daily Wire that they allow a difference of opinions.
[00:02:56]  But I would, as I said, hope that it would remain respectful and that you wouldn't throw your colleagues under a bus, so to speak.
[00:03:04]  I think in a private setting.
[00:03:05]  I think that's fair.
[00:03:05]  And just for clarity, because I really don't know, is he your boss?
[00:03:09]  I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about Ben's involvement.
[00:03:13]  He's not the CEO of the Daily Wire.
[00:03:15]  He is not making the daily decisions at the Daily Wire.
[00:03:17]  And I do want to make it very clear because people are like, how could you possibly save Daily Wire after this?
[00:03:21]  I have a very good relationship with the co-CEOs of the Daily Wire.
[00:03:25]  Especially right now, the acting CEO is Caleb Robinson.
[00:03:28]  He's a wonderful person.
[00:03:29]  He's worked very hard to be where he's at.
[00:03:31]  We have a lot in common that we connect on.
[00:03:33]  And so people don't get to see that, which is unfortunate.
[00:03:36]  Ben lives in Florida.
[00:03:37]  He's not a part of the day-to-day movement of the Daily Wire.
[00:03:40]  The rest of the hosts have their shows situated in Nashville.
[00:03:44]  So we see each other every day.
[00:03:45]  We talk.
[00:03:45]  There's great camaraderie.
[00:03:46]  And there's actually more agreement.
[00:03:47]  There's actually a lot of people that are, as I describe myself, just pro-America first.
[00:03:51]  And I think I've been that way consistently throughout my political career.
[00:03:54]  Whether people agree with it or not in different moments is up for debate.
[00:03:58]  But I don't want that video to become a reflection of how the Daily Wire works and the Daily Wire operates because I have had a very good experience with the CEOs and love Michael Knowles, love Matt Walsh, Andrew Claven.
[00:04:14]  We all get along really great.
[00:04:15]  Which certainly speaks well to the Daily Wire then.
[00:04:16]  So it's not, I mean, a clip like that on the internet, oh, Candace Jones is out or something.

=== Consistent Pro-America Stance (03:27) ===

[00:04:21]  That doesn't sound like that's what it means.
[00:04:23]  Yeah, no, it's a, you know, it's, it's a small group of people.
[00:04:25]  We see each other every day.
[00:04:26]  Brett Cooper is another one who just joined about two years ago.
[00:04:29]  She's great.
[00:04:30]  She's up and coming.
[00:04:31]  And there's a lot of stuff that we're working on.
[00:04:32]  And that's why I think this video is even more unfortunate because people see him as a figurehead, rightfully so, of the Daily Wire.
[00:04:39]  And it allows people to speak energy into the Daily Wire that isn't necessarily there because he's not there on a day-to-day basis.
[00:04:46]  Okay, that's very interesting.
[00:04:47]  So if we could say three steps back and give us the context for this debate, how are you on different sides of it?
[00:04:53]  I haven't heard you endorsing Hamas.
[00:04:56]  No.
[00:04:56]  Well, I have not endorsed Hamas in any way.
[00:04:59]  And yet people have interpreted things that I say, or actually rather things that I don't say.
[00:05:04]  It's becoming very much reminiscent to me and why I have used my platform to say this of Black Lives Matter, where if you don't say anything, they say your silence is violence.
[00:05:12]  If you say something and it's even-handed and it's nuanced, which is to say, you know, during the times of Black Lives Matter, you might say, I don't support police brutality.
[00:05:20]  Who does?
[00:05:20]  I don't support racism.
[00:05:22]  Who does?
[00:05:23]  But also, I think that police are a crucial part of every city.
[00:05:28]  We need to have policing in cities.
[00:05:30]  So these calls to defund the police are immoral and wrong and are going to lead to more black deaths.
[00:05:34]  People didn't want that nuance when Black Lives Matter, following George Floyd, there was no nuance.
[00:05:37]  You had to explicitly say defund the police.
[00:05:40]  You had to post a black square.
[00:05:41]  If you didn't post a black square on Instagram, by the way, specifically on the platform of Instagram, and you, maybe were busy that day.
[00:05:48]  Maybe you were in another country.
[00:05:50]  You know, maybe you just didn't log on to Instagram.
[00:05:52]  You were accused of being a racist.
[00:05:54]  I'm seeing a lot of that behavior right now when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, a conflict that I have seen every single person, including myself, condemn what happened on October 7th.
[00:06:04]  I have, because who wouldn't condemn terrorism?
[00:06:06]  It's obvious.
[00:06:07]  Who would not condemn innocent Israelis dying?
[00:06:10]  But if you then say that it is also sad when an innocent Palestinian child dies, suddenly this is pro-Hamas, or you need to say, even when you're talking about how sad it is that a child dies, you need to button that statement by saying, but that child was a human shield.
[00:06:23]  That's not going to be my response.
[00:06:25]  First off, as a mother, that's not going to be my response as somebody who is about to give birth.
[00:06:29]  When I see these images of children involved on both sides of the conflict, I've pointed to the people that are mocking dead Israeli children and said that they are horrific.
[00:06:38]  I am even keel on this matter, and yet people think that you need to be extreme.
[00:06:42]  So people that have become more radical and extreme are perceiving a moderate stance as not enough.
[00:06:48]  Because I was about to say you don't, people can disagree with you or agree with you or whatever, but you certainly don't seem radical on this topic.
[00:06:54]  Definitively not radical.
[00:06:56]  My stance has not changed in terms of whether or not America should be involved in this conflict.
[00:07:00]  Whether we were talking about Afghanistan, my comments have been clear.
[00:07:03]  They've been documented for years.
[00:07:05]  Whether we are talking about Ukraine and Russia, my comments have been clear and they have been documented.
[00:07:10]  I mean, you can go back to me even talking about NATO expansion before things erupted between Russia and Ukraine and having a meaningful discussion about how much expansion is too much expansion.
[00:07:21]  How would we feel if we had troops on our border?
[00:07:23]  These are things that should be allowed in an academic discussion.
[00:07:26]  You should be able to sit on stage and should be able to debate these ideas without using odd hominid attacks to say that you're a pro-Putin puppet or you're pro-terrorism.
[00:07:34]  Even in the aftermath of 9-11, something that we all remember as part of my childhood.
[00:07:37]  I think I was in seventh grade at the time and I'm born in the New York City area.
[00:07:41]  So this was a very big deal.
[00:07:42]  If a person the day after 9-11 wanted to debate the Patriot Act, it's not fair to call them terrorist sympathizers.

=== Academic Debates Under Pressure (01:14) ===

[00:07:48]  No.
[00:07:49]  Actually, they would have been proven right in the long run.
[00:07:51]  That we give up a lot of our freedoms.
[00:07:52]  And I think there was only one congressman, Republican, that was against the Patriot Act at that time.
[00:07:58]  So it's important, actually, when you start making decisions in a highly emotional time, that people sit down and have these academic debates.
[00:08:06]  And there are people that are saying, no, it doesn't matter because people are dead, that you need to just choose a side.
[00:08:11]  And that needs to be it.
[00:08:12]  It needs to become tribal.
[00:08:14]  There's also, I can't help but notice that your views reflect mine.
[00:08:18]  I would say pretty much.
[00:08:19]  I'm an American.
[00:08:19]  I was horrified by what happened on October 7th.
[00:08:22]  Honestly, it was pretty strange.
[00:08:24]  I don't really understand how it happened, but Innocence died, and that's awful.
[00:08:27]  And I hated watching that.
[00:08:28]  And I feel so sorry for the Israelis who were killed.
[00:08:33]  However, there's an emotional response that is disproportionate, I think, on the part of some commentators.
[00:08:41]  I mean, our country's being invaded right now by millions of young men whose identities we don't know, who probably don't even like America, and they're now living here.
[00:08:49]  Over 100,000 Americans die every year of fentanyl.
[00:08:52]  I've known a couple.
[00:08:53]  Those are real tragedies.
[00:08:54]  I've never seen anything like the emotion from any commentator around those tragedies as I'm watching about a foreign tragedy.
[00:09:02]  I think that's odd.