Oct. 26, 2023 - The Tucker Carlson Show
10:12
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| If you take three steps back, a lot of what's happening around the world seems like an attack on Christianity. | ||
| Thanks to the Neocon Project, virtually the entire ancient Christian population of Iraq was eliminated. | ||
| The U.S. government, under several presidents, has funded, effectively, the killing of Christians in Syria. | ||
| And this continues throughout the Middle East and in Eastern Europe. | ||
| In Ukraine, the most obvious example. | ||
| The Ukrainian government has now banned an entire Christian denomination, and virtually no one in the United States has said anything about it. | ||
| We thought it would be worth learning more. | ||
| Bob Amsterdam is an attorney representing that denomination. | ||
| He joins us now. | ||
| Mr. Amsterdam, thank you very much for coming on. | ||
| Explain, if you would, to people who haven't been following this, what's the denomination, what's its status now, and why? | ||
| The Ukrainian Orthodox Church is the home of Orthodoxy in Ukraine. | ||
| It's been around for a thousand years. | ||
| Five years ago, the Ukrainian government, in its wisdom, set up what is called an autocephalous church, an independent church, independent of any connection to Russian canons, and decided that that church... | ||
| should replace the spiritual home of Ukrainians. | ||
| That church, called the OCU, has been engaged in an absolutely vicious, unlimited campaign to steal property, harass, intimidate and jail clerics, force conscription on believers, act in a manner that is almost unbelievable. | ||
| In a civilized society. | ||
| And they'll use the excuse that this church, which, by the way, completely separated from Moscow in May of last year, is somehow connected to the Russian FSB. But based on the testimonies I've reviewed, there seems to be little substance to this allegation. | ||
| And in fact, there are other institutions in Ukraine, like the secret police. | ||
| Who have been far more infiltrated by Russia than this particular church. | ||
| Yet there is a reason for it, and it's a sad reason. | ||
| The politicians in Ukraine, including perhaps the president, want to take the populist vote of those behind this new church and therefore feel it is in their political interests to destroy this ancient branch of Christianity. | ||
| And I absolutely can tell you. | ||
| That the damage that has been visited on the leadership of this church, including five-year jail sentences for 75-year-old clerics, just astound you that in the 21st century, a country that wants to join the EU would ban a religion, let alone an ancient Christian. | ||
| And moreover, a country whose functions of government and national defense are effectively solely funded by the United States taxpayers. | ||
| So I think Americans have an interest in this. | ||
| And if you ask Christian leaders in this country, and I have, shouldn't we be concerned when the Ukrainian government, which we're all for apparently, is banning a Christian denomination, they just say, well, no, they're not really Christians, they're Russian agents. | ||
| If you could respond to that in a little more detail. | ||
| You know, I'd be happy to because, firstly, I carry no water for Putin. | ||
| I'm banned from Russia. | ||
| I defended one of Putin's biggest enemies. | ||
| And it is very hard for this particular branch to obtain counsel because people are so afraid of being connected to Russia. | ||
| We have mobilized so much hate and animosity towards Russia. | ||
| That it is completely obscene. | ||
| And there is a huge PR ban on saying anything that is critical of the Ukrainian government or President Zelensky. | ||
| And as a result of that, we fail to understand the context of internal Ukrainian affairs. | ||
| And the Russian connection, the allegation of FSB connections, were it to be true, The evidence against these four metropolitans would be substantive, and yet they're painfully inadequate. | ||
| The charges of one metropolitan who has 400 children he's adopted relates to hurting the feelings of other Christians or other denominations. | ||
| I mean, these charges are on their face, political charges. | ||
| So as an attorney who's operated in a bunch of different countries over many decades, and I would encourage people watching this to look up your resume. | ||
| I think it speaks for itself. | ||
| You're not an agent of the Russian government. | ||
| It seems to me that it's like prima facie unacceptable. | ||
| For a so-called Western liberal government to ban a religious denomination. | ||
| I thought that was a traditional red line. | ||
| If you're doing that, by definition, you're authoritarian. | ||
| Am I missing something? | ||
| Tucker, not at all. | ||
| There is no basis under the Ukrainian constitution or under international law or the laws of war. | ||
| Or Ukraine's own resolution in terms of limited rights during the war for the banning of a religious denomination. | ||
| And on our Departures podcast that we have, we actually have a lengthy interview where we explain all of this. | ||
| This goes beyond anything acceptable. | ||
| It's a violation of the... | ||
| EU charter, it's a violation of the Copenhagen criteria that the Ukraine would have to satisfy to enter the EU. This has nothing but a Tammany Hall local political logic. | ||
| And I have to tell you, frankly, I'm a Jewish person. | ||
| I do not understand how it is that Christian leaders are not up in arms. | ||
| Because I think their silence on Ukraine is dangerous for Christian denominations throughout the world. | ||
| And I'll tell you, part of the reason I'm doing that is because of my concern for Christian brothers and sisters and what it means for them that we see raids on churches, we see violence, we see balaclava-covered individuals beating clergy, kidnappings. | ||
| It is completely shocking. | ||
| The UN has spoken out. | ||
| German experts on orthodoxy have spoken out. | ||
| Many orthodox denominations don't recognize the, quote, new state church that the Ukraine have set up. | ||
| And it is shocking to me that a country such as the United States with strong Christian leadership, I thought, could allow this to go on. | ||
| Because what the Ukrainians try to tell you is that it's the same religion. | ||
| This OCU state church is the same religion. | ||
| But in fact, my clients, the church I represent, their prayers are in church Slavonic. | ||
| Their liturgy is different. | ||
| And I can tell you, as somebody who is not a youngster, were somebody to come into my church or synagogue and change the language and change the leadership, I would be horrified. | ||
| There is nothing more intimate than one's relationship to his God. | ||
| And this intervention for callous political purposes is unacceptable and it is shameful that not only Christian... | ||
| But all leaders of all denominations have not spoken out against the Ukrainian government. | ||
| Well, it does seem a little weird that it falls to a Jewish lawyer from the U.S. to defend a Christian denomination, and bless you, sincerely bless you for that. | ||
| But where is Russell Moore, the editor of Christianity Today? | ||
| Where is the Senate Majority Leader, Mitch McConnell, a purported Christian? | ||
| I mean, they're backing this. | ||
| What is that? | ||
| Do you have any theory as to why this is happening? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| The Ukraine lobby is immensely powerful. | ||
| And there is a humongous ban on truth right now in the United States with respect to what's happening in Ukraine. | ||
| Many of our leaders in the United States aren't even hearing this. | ||
| It's the same in Europe. | ||
| You cannot get through. | ||
| The massive PR machine that the Ukrainians have put together. | ||
| And, you know, I'm on their side. | ||
| I am absolutely pro-Ukraine in terms of the devastation they've suffered as a result of the war. | ||
| But why that is being channeled against my clients, the Holy Synod, men who are dedicated to God and their followers who, let me be frank, Are the most devout part of the Ukrainian populace? | ||
| Why these innocents are being persecuted in this way is beyond my comprehension. | ||
| Probably because they are the most devout. | ||
| I have to say, there's so few people of principle left in our public conversation, and you're demonstrably one of them. | ||
| I'm grateful for what you're doing and for telling us about it. | ||
| Mr. Amsterdam, thank you very much. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| ...is full of wine... | ||
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...and Kennedy's motorcade... | |
| ...239 people... |
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