Sept. 14, 2023 - The Tucker Carlson Show
32:39
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| We're in downtown Buenos Aires, the capital of Argentina. | ||
| This was once about 100 years ago, one of the richest cities in the world. | ||
| And you could tell as you walk around the faded grandeur of a once great city. | ||
| But this is now a desperate country. | ||
| Its economy is in shambles, has been for a long time. | ||
| Argentina famously defaulted on its debt more than 20 years ago. | ||
| But now hyperinflation has made this country genuinely desperate. | ||
| You see it when you... | ||
| Have dinner here in restaurants and people pull out bricks of local currency, the peso, to pay. | ||
| It feels like Weimar or Zimbabwe, but it's not. | ||
| This is a developed country that's moving backwards at high speed. | ||
| And because of the frustration that has built up among the population, particularly among poor people, a man called Javier Mile is poised to become its next president. | ||
| He's a former soccer star, a goalie. | ||
| A performer in a Rolling Stones cover band and a libertarian economist. | ||
| He's not a libertarian in the traditional American sense. | ||
| He wouldn't fit in at the Cato Institute, which has attacked him for liking Donald Trump too much. | ||
| He's a libertarian in the traditional sense. | ||
| He believes people should have the maximum amount of freedom they can be given, which is a lot, much more than they now get in Argentina. | ||
| He has moved from basically nowhere in the last several years to become Maybe the most famous person in this country. | ||
| The election is next month in October. | ||
| And once again, it seems like he's likely to win. | ||
| The reception he's gotten from the press in the West, particularly in the United States, the New York Times, the Washington Post, also the Financial Times has been hostile, to put it mildly. | ||
| They describe him as a far-right figure, like he's a Nazi. | ||
| Is he? | ||
| We sat down with him at great length just a moment ago. | ||
| Here right across from the president's mansion, the pink house that he hopes to soon occupy, to find out what he's like. | ||
| He didn't seem very radical. | ||
| Continuing what they're now doing in Argentina seems radical, in fact, insane. | ||
| But judge for yourself. | ||
| Here he is. | ||
| Thanks so much for joining us or for letting us come and interview you here in Buenos Aires. | ||
| So why do you think, from your perspective, you've become... | ||
| A man with no political background, so popular, so quickly in this country. | ||
| Desde mi punto de vista, hay dos líneas que explican por qué la popularidad. | ||
| Una tiene que ver con mi background personal, que tiene que ver con el hecho de que he sido jugador de fútbol. | ||
| Al mismo tiempo he sido cantante de rock and roll y además soy economista. | ||
| And I think that combination is attractive in terms of television product. | ||
| But on the other hand, what is also important is the issue of ideas. | ||
| And Argentina basically is a country that has 100 years abrazing social ideas. | ||
| And then the natural rebel of the system was to be liberal. | ||
| And that's why the natural rebel of the system always appears in the young people. | ||
| And the young people found someone who talked about liberalism, who was against the status quo. | ||
| I don't understand how People with power in Argentina could support the status quo, given that your inflation rate is up there with Lebanon and Zimbabwe and other countries that aren't real countries. | ||
| But your country is beautiful, abundant natural resources, intelligent, well-educated population, and yet its economy is in shambles. | ||
| So clearly the system isn't working. | ||
| How could anyone support that? | ||
| The problem is that Argentina started to embrace social ideas for more than 100 years. | ||
| And it's always good for the analogy or the metaphor of the snake in the water. | ||
| And then one begins to heat the water and the snake doesn't realize. | ||
| But there is a moment in which... | ||
| When you want to realize it's very late and ends up dead. | ||
| Argentina began to embrace the idea of socialism with a phrase that looks very attractive, but that is terrifying in terms of functioning the economic system, which is the idea that where there is a need, there is a right. | ||
| And that's a problem, because the necessities are infinite and someone has to pay the rights. | ||
| And the problem is that the resources are finite. | ||
| So, in the situation of infinite necessities and finite resources, there is a conflict. | ||
| Those liberals, that conflict we solve easily, which is with freedom of prices and private property. | ||
| And that's what generates the coordination mechanism to solve this tension in society. | ||
| However, the idea of the invisible hand is not like socialists, and they prefer the State's arm and basically hide it behind the idea of social justice. | ||
| Where social justice is profoundly unjust because it implies a unrighteous treaty against the law preceded by a robbery. | ||
| I didn't fully appreciate the degree to which the Argentinian government had embraced fringe, academic, American-style social justice. | ||
| A businessman told me at lunch today that people identify as transgender pay lower taxes. | ||
| 2019, you had a Ministry of Women and Diversity created in this country for the first time. | ||
| What does that ministry do? | ||
| Well, supuestamente se dedica a ocuparse de los temas vinculados a las mujeres. | ||
| Sin embargo, cuando uno mira los resultados, no han logrado ningún resultado. | ||
| Es decir, hacer canciones... | ||
| No. | ||
| No, because in reality no hay resultados. | ||
| Es decir, pintar un banco de plaza de un color rojo o hacer una canción, eso no modifica las condiciones o los problemas que pueden estar padeciendo las mujeres. | ||
| De hecho, probablemente uno de los mayores logros del liberalismo es la igualdad ante la ley. | ||
| Y este tipo de ministerios, o sea, porque la pregunta es, ¿entonces por qué no hay un ministerio de hombres? | ||
| No solo eso, sino que además, si tenemos igualdad ante la ley, lo que necesitamos es que la ley se cumpla, no que haya un ministerio de la mujer. | ||
| De hecho, es más, parten de premisas que son absolutamente falsas. | ||
| Ejemplo, dicen, no, el techo de cristal para las mujeres y que las mujeres ganan menos que los hombres. | ||
| And at the same time, they say that the empresarios are a little cerds, and that only thing is to get money. | ||
| So, if the empresarios are a little cerds, that only thing is to get money. | ||
| The question is, why if I enter a office, it is not plagued by women? | ||
| Would it be worth it? | ||
| And, however, when one looks, the distribution is quite fair and in line with the population. | ||
| So, what one sees is that when it comes from the average values, and that has to do with the aggregate decisions of men and women regarding what profession is to choose, one sees that when they do the correct type of profession, type one sees that when they do the correct type of profession, type of job and other things, the remunerations | ||
| And the reality is that all these regulations and restrictions that impulsan this type of organism, like the Ministry of the Women, the only thing they do is... | ||
| Crear una discriminación positiva, o sea, una affirmative action, que es discriminación, que además a mí me parece absolutamente ofensiva para las mujeres, porque implica tratarlas como seres inferiores, lo cual me parece verdaderamente aberrante, pero además genera comportamientos opuestos a las mujeres, que terminan perjudicando a las mujeres. | ||
| Pasa lo mismo de siempre, toda acción estatal... | ||
| Well, every time the state intervenes, | ||
| You oppose abortion. | ||
| Why? | ||
| Well, because as liberal, or liberal, libertarian, because in English, liberal is different, so I will say it as libertarian. | ||
| Nosotros creemos que el liberalismo es el respeto irrestricto del proyecto de vida del prójimo, basado en el principio de no agresión y en defensa del derecho a la vida, a la libertad y a la propiedad. | ||
| Por lo tanto, adhiriendo a las ideas de la libertad, Básicamente, una de las ideas fundamentales es defender el derecho a la vida. | ||
| O sea, filosóficamente estoy a favor de respetar el derecho a la vida. | ||
| Después hay una justificación desde el plano de vista de la ciencia, de las ciencias naturales, digamos, que es el hecho de que la vida comienza en el momento de la fecundación y en ese mismo momento se genera un nuevo ser en evolución. | ||
| It's true that the woman has rights on her body, but that child in the body is not her body. | ||
| So, the child is not her body. | ||
| So I would think you're a Catholic you said. | ||
| You're just defending really the Catholic life principle. | ||
| The Pope, the current Pope is from Argentina. | ||
| I would think he would support you. | ||
| He has instead criticized you and you've called him a communist. | ||
| Why the disconnect? | ||
| Bueno, primero porque el Papa juega políticamente. | ||
| He is a king who has strong political influence. | ||
| He also has a great affinity with dictators like Castro or Maduro. | ||
| He is on the side of the sangrient dictators. | ||
| I'm sorry, Raul Castro is a murder. | ||
| Yes, and Fidel Castro was also another assassin. | ||
| But the Pope, you believe the Pope has an affinity for Raul Castro? | ||
| By the communists assassins. | ||
| In fact, he's not condemning. | ||
| He's quite condescendent with them. | ||
| And he's also condescendent with the Venezuelan dictatorship. | ||
| He's condescendent with all the left, even when they're real criminals. | ||
| Which is a problem. | ||
| But also, he's someone who considers that social justice... | ||
| It's a central element of his vision. | ||
| And that's very complicated because the social justice is robing the fruit of his work to one person and giving it to another. | ||
| So it implies two things. | ||
| One is a steal. | ||
| And the problem is that the steal is against what the 10 commandments say. | ||
| It's to say, avalar la justicia social es avalar el robo. | ||
| Por lo tanto, es un problema que está violando los diez mandamientos. | ||
| El otro problema es que es un trato desigual frente a la ley. | ||
| Y no me parece que sea algo justo, digamos, que algunos sean premiados y otros sean castigados desde una posición de poder como la que tiene el Estado, que tiene el monopolio de la violencia. | ||
| So when you look around, it's fascinating to look around this city, Buenos Aires, and the architecture is a mixture of sublimely beautiful buildings and stupendously ugly buildings. | ||
| And it feels like looking at an archaeological tell where the architecture corresponds to certain political eras. | ||
| And I wonder if you believe that socialism, leftism, produces ugliness. | ||
| The city of Buenos Aires, when one looks at the architecture, the architecture of the liberal Argentina is the architecture that generates so much fascination and that is illuminating, because it is the architecture of the liberal Argentina. | ||
| The best example of that is the Teatro Colón. | ||
| It's one of the best teatros lyricists in the world, because it's the reflection of that Argentina pujante, liberal, admired by the world. | ||
| Y después, todas las edificaciones ya más cuadradas, el mejor efecto es lo que en algún momento se llamaba del Ministerio de Obras Públicas o del Ministerio de Acción Social, es el mejor efecto es lo que en algún momento se llamaba del Ministerio de Obras Públicas o del Ministerio de Acción Social, es el que está | ||
| Es más, en un momento había una estatua, ahora la sacaron, pero había una estatua que estaba en esta forma, con la mano así, básicamente para reflejar una coima, básicamente para reflejar una coima, que fue una de las cosas que hizo el edificio en repudio a la campanita. | ||
| the amount of coins that they asked him while he was doing the building. | ||
| That's the architecture. | ||
| And it's more stupid and more stupid. | ||
| And only the parts that progress are those that have businesses linked to politicians. | ||
| For example, Puerto Madero. | ||
| You describe the buildings, the leftist buildings, as square and plain and ugly. | ||
| Why does the left love concrete so much? | ||
| Your old buildings are built out of stone and plaster but the newer socialist buildings are all concrete. | ||
| What is that? | ||
| Because it has to do with the values of the left. | ||
| The values of the left are: envy, hatred, resentment, the injustice against the law, and violence. | ||
| So, all that socialist altruism ends up generating a contamination of the incentives that generate poverty. | ||
| Entonces, claro, cuando uno es pobre, la edificación que puede hacer frente por esa es claramente propia de alguien pobre. | ||
| Porque esto es interesante, el socialismo es siempre y en todo lugar un fenómeno violento, asesino y empobrecedor. | ||
| That's the characteristic of socialism. | ||
| Que nunca abracen las ideas del socialismo. | ||
| Que nunca se dejen seducir por el canto de las sirenas de la justicia social. | ||
| Que no se dejen atrapar por esa frase nefasta que donde hay una ansiedad nace un derecho. | ||
| Pero que eso no se hace solo. | ||
| Para eso hay que estar preparado y hay que dar la batalla cultural día a día. | ||
| Y que hay que tener cuidado porque ellos no tienen problemas en meterse adentro del Estado. | ||
| Y aplicar las técnicas de Gramsci seduciendo a artistas. | ||
| Seduciendo la cultura. | ||
| seduciendo a los medios de comunicación o metiéndose en los contenidos de la educación. | ||
| Hay que tener mucho cuidado, hay que cortarles el financiamiento y hay que hacerlos competir a la par. | ||
| Y al mismo tiempo hay que concientizar a los empresarios de que es necesario que más allá... | ||
| Milton Friedman decía que la función social del empresario era ganar dinero. | ||
| Bueno, con eso solo no alcanza. | ||
| Parte de la inversión tiene que ser invertir... | ||
| in the defenders of the idea of freedom, so that the socialists can't advance because if they don't do it, they will put it in the state and from the state they will impose an agenda that in long term will end destroying everything that needs to happen. | ||
| So, there is necessary a strong commitment. | ||
| I think that if that's not done, the socialists will always try. | ||
| Because, what is the point? | ||
| As they try to live with others without working, they are incansable in looking for this. | ||
| because their motive in life is to live from others. | ||
| So they never cede in this mechanism of appropriation of wealth and the money or the generation of other people. | ||
| So that battle has to be done in a permanent way. | ||
| No one can rest. | ||
| Because when one rest, the socialism moves. | ||
| Donald Trump is running for president again in the United States, as you know. | ||
| What advice would you give him? | ||
| What advice would you give him? | ||
| in the private sector. | ||
| It is to say, the state does not create wealth, the state does not destroy it. | ||
| The state does not give anything because it does not produce anything. | ||
| And when it wants to do it, it does not do bad. | ||
| So, I think that, from my small place, I can only say that I can double the efforts in the same direction of defending the ideas of freedom and not to give any I can only say that I can double the efforts in the same direction Do you see the climate change movement as part of the same agenda socialist? | ||
| Yes, it is part of the agenda socialist. | ||
| In fact, the post-marxism, what he tries to do is that, given the economic collapse that was evident with the collapse given the economic collapse that was evident with the collapse of the wall, although in reality the socialism failed in the year 1961 when they had to build the wall, No | ||
| in rigor, they, in that defeat, brought the class to other aspects of life. | ||
| So, for example, the struggle between negros and blancos, or Black Lives Matter, the lobby LGBT, everything that has to do with the radical feminists, because you have to remember that the feminists, as original cause, is a liberal cause. | ||
| The first one that impulsed this was Jeremy Beckham, at the beginning of the 18th century. | ||
| As part of that agenda, there is also the agenda of the man against the nature, where the man is the one who has the nature. | ||
| When in reality the world has had other peaks of high temperatures, as it is now, it is a cycle of a behavior, independent of the existence of the man, and that if the prices were free, those problems would be done without any kind of problem. | ||
| We need to regulate the state, because every time the state regulates, things worse. | ||
| mass And that agenda also has a much darker side, which is the agenda of the murder. | ||
| Because as a consequence of that humans do wrong to the planet, they promote the murder of people in the womb, which is the abortion. | ||
| So it's a policy that always failed in the world. | ||
| But not only because it's tremendous, because it always falls, but also because it's a political sangrient that certain human beings believe they're in situations where they decide who lives and who doesn't. | ||
| It's like a maxim expression of the fat arrogancy, where a human being will determine who lives and who lives. | ||
| I want to be clear that the socialists have the hands of the blood. | ||
| They have the hands of the blood. | ||
| Are you arguing that socialists commit bloodshed because they believe they are God? | ||
| Because they believe that they are God. | ||
| They believe that they are God. | ||
| That's why Hayek, in his last book, called "the fatal arrogancy". | ||
| It's to say, because to coordinate all this type of actions, the amount of knowledge that we have to have, and that's linked to another article of Hayes called The use of the knowledge in the society, where it gives a more scientific idea of the idea of the man invisible, of Adam Smith. | ||
| What he says is that to be able to apply the socialism is necessary That people who do it should be omniscientes, omnipresentes and omnipotentes. | ||
| That is, they believe that they are God. | ||
| And I'm going to tell you something, they are not God. | ||
| And I'm going to tell you something worse. | ||
| They are so miserables and so rastreros, and especially those of the left, that they are also below. | ||
| Of course, it's the agenda of the envidious. | ||
| The envy is a capital. | ||
| Of that nothing good can come. | ||
| Of the murder, of the robbery, of the robbery. | ||
| Volviendo al Papa Francisco, ¿por qué defiende una agenda que defiende el asesinato, el robo, la envidia? | ||
|
unidentified
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Es raro, ¿no? | |
| Es decir, yo creo que debería darla a él. | ||
| Es decir, porque a la luz del debate, a la luz... | ||
| He's the one who has to explain why he defies an economic organization that leads to poverty, misery, violence, decadence, and if they leave them, they would destroy the world. | ||
| That would explain him. | ||
| I'm not a socialist, I'm a libertarian. | ||
| You've said that as president of Argentina, you will not do business with China. | ||
| De hecho, no solo no voy a hacer negocios con China. | ||
| No voy a hacer negocios con ningún comunista. | ||
| Es decir, a ver, yo soy un defensor de la libertad, de la paz y de la democracia. | ||
| The communists don't enter there. | ||
| The Chinese don't enter there. | ||
| Putin doesn't enter there. | ||
| Lula doesn't enter there. | ||
| We want to be the faro moral of the continent. | ||
| We want to be the defenders of freedom, of democracy, of diversity, of peace. | ||
| So, we, from the state, we're not going to promote any type of action with communists, or socialists. | ||
| That doesn't mean that the Argentines can't sell it. | ||
| If they want to sell it with China, Russia, Brazil, whoever. | ||
| Problems of Argentines. | ||
| Do you pray for wisdom and guidance? | ||
| Well, I'm sure there's a lot of people praying for me. | ||
| A me me da mucha felicidad mucha gente que, por ejemplo, va al Kotel, o sea, al Muro de los Lamentos en Israel, y dejan peticiones por mí. | ||
| Así es que... | ||
| Yo me siento bien, pero aparte estoy convencido de lo que estoy haciendo. | ||
| Así que, digamos, la vida sin libertad no merece ser vivida. | ||
| It's to say, in some moment they asked me if I would be able to give my life for the freedom. | ||
| And I'm willing to give it. | ||
| And I'm willing to give it. | ||
| I look for testimony of that way of living, of living in freedom. | ||
| I mean, the slavery seems to me something horrorous. | ||
| And I'm going to fight for the freedom of freedom I'm willing to give it. | ||
| I'm willing to give it. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Last question. | ||
| You said there's this enormous state workforce, government workforce in Argentina, but you said that you would not lay them off immediately until you built up the private sector economy because you worried there would be violent protests. | ||
| Are you worried that there will be violent protests or violence against your supporters over the next month before the election? | ||
| No, I'm worried because I'm going to govern with the law in my hand and the law in my government will be fulfilled and the who the does pay. | ||
| And, also, they wouldn't have to be afraid of the reform of the first generation. | ||
| And when they take place the second generation reform, they themselves will leave their own jobs in the public sector for a question of incentives, for a question of remuneration. | ||
| So, no, it would be a problem. | ||
| But, if they want to make problems, we will apply the law. | ||
| And those who commit disturbances and those who violate the law, we will put them in prison. | ||
| Do you believe law enforcement is on your side? | ||
| Entonces, no estaría funcionando la justicia. | ||
| Y, en realidad... | ||
| I'm going to be working, also, actively, so that the justice is really independent and can act free. | ||
| And then, those who violate the law and the Constitution, they have to pay for that. | ||
| So, in a justice that gives the political support for that it is really independent, and working on the reforms for that it is really independent, I don't see why they should support it. | ||
| If no, it would be just justice. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
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I appreciate it. |
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