True Anon Truth Feed - Episode 517: Sex, Lie, and Videotape
Aired: 2026-01-22
Duration: 02:16:53


=== Pollicula's Lure (01:53) ===

[00:00:00]  I have to get into it.
[00:00:01]  This is the problem.
[00:00:03]  Ease on down that road.
[00:00:04]  I will.
[00:00:06]  Welcome to Ridgewood.
[00:00:09]  I am Pollicula.
[00:00:11]  No, it doesn't work.
[00:00:12]  And so I was thinking maybe it would be more.
[00:00:15]  Yeah, but it would be maybe more like Pollicula, like Caligula.
[00:00:20]  But wait, what is Pollicula?
[00:00:22]  Well, Pollicula would be a sort of like an undead creature who lures guys all the way across the world to come to their castle so that they can convince that guy to open up their relationship and they can essentially in a safe way also make love to that guy's wife, Poly.
[00:00:45]  You have to say Pollicula, Pollicula.
[00:00:48]  It sounds like Polycula, he loves movies.
[00:00:51]  But then, if it's interesting, because Pollicula sounds almost more like you're emphasizing the lick aspect which I suppose is Polycula.
[00:01:00]  Yeah, it makes sense.
[00:01:01]  Pollicula Ivantiutu, fuck my wife.
[00:01:04]  No, it's too many syllables.
[00:01:06]  So this is something that like this is why this is why science goes back at it again and again and again and again.
[00:01:12]  but we'll get this right.
[00:01:37]  Hello, everyone.
[00:01:38]  Hello. Hello.
[00:01:40]  Hello Brace hello Liz hello, Young Chomsky, hello.
[00:01:45]  We're just saying hello to each other, we're just saying hello.
[00:01:47]  It's nice to say hello.
[00:01:49]  I don't know why you say goodbye, I say hello.
[00:01:53]  I disagree.

=== Confusing Heights (10:55) ===

[00:01:54]  When I pull up on people, I like to stand there and when they're like what's up, I do this.
[00:01:59]  I just nod my head a little bit.
[00:02:01]  I it's sort of like uh, like the man in uh, what?
[00:02:04]  The Clint Eastwood?
[00:02:07]  Is that the man in black or is that Johnny Cash?
[00:02:09]  That's Johnny Cash, whatever the man in the hat that Clint Eastwood plays in those scary cowboy movies.
[00:02:17]  Um, hello everyone.
[00:02:18]  I'm Liz, my name is Brace, i'm producer Young Chomsky and this is Shronan.
[00:02:24]  Hello, um.
[00:02:29]  What you need when you do the, when you do the nod, is, uh, vantage point.
[00:02:32]  Brace, I. Liz is, of course, referring to a video.
[00:02:39]  Liz started watching Clavicular his actual live streams like a few months ago, and now is trying to incorporate his lessons into everyday use.
[00:02:49]  But I know i'm learning so much.
[00:02:52]  It's interesting because what she's referring to there, of course, is Clavicular.
[00:02:55]  Uh was recently teaching uh, a group of men, which I believe included Nick Fuentes and the Tate Brothers.
[00:03:03]  Uh, how a friend of his sort of hides their height while wearing lifts.
[00:03:08]  I guess lifts, this is the kind of guys who wear those first of all.
[00:03:11]  Wait, I just want to pause, For really.
[00:03:12]  Second, hide your height is what you're funniest turns of phrase I've heard in a while.
[00:03:18]  He sort of explains that you walk in with the girl, she is apparently like further in the house, and you have certain stations of like low-key little step-ups around the house, like a box or like something else.
[00:03:33]  He calls them vantage points because he says, Look, here's the conundrum: you walk in the house, you gotta take your shoes off, but your shoes have lifts, which are what are giving you your tall stature.
[00:03:44]  Now you got to hide your height.
[00:03:45]  How do you do that?
[00:03:46]  Well, you create vantage points around the room, and then they're just like cardboard boxes, they're fucking like Amazon boxes or whatever.
[00:03:55]  You sort of hide them like they're stones.
[00:03:58]  He, he's just like sort of he sort of like props up one leg on them and kind of leans to the side to sort of make his height look a little bit, I don't know, whatever.
[00:04:08]  Maybe it's a game of perspective for the onlookers in the other room.
[00:04:12]  But the way he was performing all this, I just couldn't get enough.
[00:04:18]  It's all predicated on everybody being involved involved, being just so crazy and stupid that reality is just they live in a different world.
[00:04:30]  But it's interesting to me.
[00:04:31]  I've never obviously like, as a lot of people know, you know, I'm 4-4.
[00:04:38]  Sure.
[00:04:38]  You know, angel number, angel height.
[00:04:42]  And yeah, when I've taken women home, it's a difficult process because they think that I'm 6'1.
[00:04:50]  Because of the platforms.
[00:04:52]  Not the platforms, Liz.
[00:04:53]  That's sort of old style technology.
[00:04:55]  Actually, I go even older style.
[00:04:57]  I use stilts and I use quite long trousers.
[00:05:01]  And so, you know, when I get home, I'm like.
[00:05:03]  I got the big baggies.
[00:05:05]  I got the big baggies.
[00:05:06]  And you know what?
[00:05:07]  And I use a little stilt to make it look like I have a big penis bulge as well.
[00:05:12]  I use a third stilt, but that's here nor there.
[00:05:14]  And also to look like I'm just erecting.
[00:05:17]  I don't think you know what stilts are.
[00:05:18]  Stilts are stick on legs.
[00:05:20]  It's like they have for like Jimmy, the disabled boy from the Christmas story.
[00:05:26]  Right.
[00:05:26]  He was sort of wearing Jiminy's.
[00:05:28]  Jiminy Cricket.
[00:05:29]  We're using Jimmy Cricket.
[00:05:30]  That's the cricket for whatever.
[00:05:32]  From a Christmas story.
[00:05:34]  Chris's Carol, but it is a Christmas story.
[00:05:36]  It's a Dickensian technology.
[00:05:38]  Dickensian technology, exactly.
[00:05:40]  So what you do is you bring a woman home.
[00:05:42]  She's looking up at you and you command her from your height into the bedroom.
[00:05:48]  Off with the lights.
[00:05:49]  Which, oh, by the way, every overhead light in your house is home when you get back when you get back there.
[00:05:53]  And then you sort of slip out of your stilts and put them away.
[00:05:58]  But what if the pants?
[00:06:01]  So you go in there completely naked because you can't walk in the, but the lights are off.
[00:06:07]  She's in the bed.
[00:06:08]  Because the pools of fabric, you would trip over them immediately.
[00:06:13]  But then you just have sex in certain positions where the woman can't tell your height.
[00:06:16]  Certain advantage points.
[00:06:18]  Yeah, advantage points.
[00:06:19]  And it's just, it's, but I'm like, who is, I don't understand.
[00:06:24]  And this is maybe.
[00:06:25]  I think it's really creative.
[00:06:29]  Dude, I do too.
[00:06:30]  But here's the thing.
[00:06:33]  I think the idea of being so torn up about your heights that you're wearing shoes that give you, is it like an inch or is it two inches?
[00:06:39]  Well, lifts have existed for a long time.
[00:06:41]  I mean, we're talking, you know, Cruz has been rocking those for his entire career.
[00:06:46]  And still he doesn't beat the allegations.
[00:06:49]  Everyone's lifting.
[00:06:50]  Everyone's been lifting in Hollywood since times of yore.
[00:06:54]  This is what I think.
[00:06:55]  I think it's very creative for him in terms of him like coming up with these little life hacks.
[00:07:04]  He's a life hacker.
[00:07:06]  Oh, sorry.
[00:07:06]  Certain being straight.
[00:07:07]  Bio and life hacker.
[00:07:09]  However, I also think it's sad because you don't need to do that.
[00:07:15]  And also, I think he's, you know, all these like Zoomer street boys are obsessive in a way that is very unhealthy.
[00:07:24]  So something I learned from watching the documentary Tiptoes with Gary Oldman is that the movie stars, aside from, of course, Matthew McConney and his wife in the movie, who I can't remember the actress's name, but the movie mostly stars quite short, ladies and gentlemen, except for Gary Oldman, who appears in every scene on his knees with tennis shoes at the bottom of his knees.
[00:07:46]  And call me old-fashioned, but I think women sort of get freaked out by tall guys because they think that you might is that an old-fashioned thing to believe because you can see the woman's bald spot.
[00:07:57]  Let's be real.
[00:07:58]  You can see the bald spot.
[00:07:59]  And a lot of women are sensitive about that.
[00:08:01]  That's why Yamakas are sort of becoming more accepted into the female world these days to sort of hide that.
[00:08:06]  But a lot of women don't understand.
[00:08:08]  If you, if you, or God, guys don't understand, if you just rope a pair of shoes to your knees and sort of waddle around clubs on that, sort of dancing.
[00:08:18]  Well, penguin move.
[00:08:20]  This is the penguin.
[00:08:21]  These females have never seen anything like this before.
[00:08:27]  This is the classic technique of just confusion.
[00:08:32]  Yeah.
[00:08:33]  Yes.
[00:08:34]  I'm just going to do something that's going to confuse you so much that you'll pay attention to me.
[00:08:40]  I got to be honest.
[00:08:41]  And to step outside any set of joking for a second, genuinely.
[00:08:45]  I know you feel worked so well for me in my entire life.
[00:08:50]  If you just, you don't know what to do?
[00:08:55]  Confuse them.
[00:08:56]  I don't know what to do but confuse them.
[00:08:59]  You got to just confuse them.
[00:09:01]  It's a, it's a, it's a, and that, and that takes you not being confused yourself.
[00:09:05]  And I think that's where a lot of people fail on that.
[00:09:07]  It's you got to be, you got to be, but you confuse them.
[00:09:10]  You got to save.
[00:09:11]  You can't be tricking yourself.
[00:09:12]  You can't be lying to yourself.
[00:09:13]  You have to do all of that.
[00:09:15]  You're not trying to lie to a woman.
[00:09:17]  You're just trying to confuse her.
[00:09:19]  You're just trying to sort of addle her a little bit until she's like, well, what the hell?
[00:09:24]  You know, just confuse them.
[00:09:26]  Exactly.
[00:09:26]  Just confuse them.
[00:09:28]  The vantage points would work on that.
[00:09:30]  Well, speaking of confusing, check out this transition.
[00:09:36]  It's interesting to me that some of the same pickup artist techniques that work for men do not work for women.
[00:09:43]  Of course, we're referring back here to, and this is a little bit, I think the NDI has expired now, Liz's ex-boyfriend, a gentleman named Mystery, Franzak, which is where she gets her last name.
[00:09:56]  But from the pickup artist that I understand is that you sort of try to peacock.
[00:10:00]  You dress like a freak until women sort of see you as a novelty that they'll have sex with once.
[00:10:06]  And then that is kind of a version of Confusums.
[00:10:10]  It is, but it's, it's, there's no mental totally.
[00:10:14]  There's nothing.
[00:10:15]  It's not for, you know what?
[00:10:16]  It's not for the brain cell.
[00:10:18]  It's not for, no, exactly.
[00:10:20]  But it's interesting.
[00:10:22]  It's interesting.
[00:10:22]  I just think it's interesting that that will work for a guy like Mystery.
[00:10:27]  But if a woman came, because if a guy came up to me in a top hat, goggles, you know, a lot of chains coming off of his vest, I'd be like, oh, what the fuck?
[00:10:37]  I'll, you know what?
[00:10:38]  I'll suck your dick for a little bit, you know?
[00:10:40]  Maybe not the whole time, but for a little bit.
[00:10:43]  Because you were just like, that's weird.
[00:10:45]  Or why would you say?
[00:10:46]  Maybe he'll give me a pocket watch or something, you know?
[00:10:49]  Maybe there'll be something.
[00:10:49]  So you're pocket watching.
[00:10:51]  Exactly.
[00:10:52]  And that's what when people talk about that, that's what they mean.
[00:10:54]  But if a woman came up to me and she was sort of festooned, you know, in various baubles and necklaces and a, you know, possibly some kind of crazy bow or like a what there's also, what's the thing?
[00:11:13]  It's like a woman, it's like a showgirl scarf.
[00:11:15]  A boa.
[00:11:16]  A boa.
[00:11:17]  A bows and boas.
[00:11:19]  I'd be like, get the fuck out of here, freak.
[00:11:23]  Wait, so I know that you're doing a transition into what we're actually talking about today, but I do have to say something about that because I was in a movie the other day packed and woman comes in late.
[00:11:37]  You're already dead to me coming to a movie late, by the way.
[00:11:40]  Yes.
[00:11:41]  But she comes in late.
[00:11:42]  It's a very cold day.
[00:11:45]  She's, let's say, I'm just, you know what?
[00:11:47]  I'm a glancer.
[00:11:48]  I'm glancing over and I'm saying, Gestalt, she's an arty type.
[00:11:52]  Okay.
[00:11:54]  Big old glasses, big coat.
[00:11:57]  Okay.
[00:11:57]  She's taking it off.
[00:11:59]  The hat was made of boa feathers and was round like with the high, like a big bird.
[00:12:09]  It was a big bird hat.
[00:12:10]  It was a big bird hat.
[00:12:12]  And I'm not even kidding you.
[00:12:14]  It was boa feathers, round.
[00:12:18]  She sits down with the hat on.
[00:12:23]  And I'm looking over and I'm like, looking at the guy sitting behind her.
[00:12:26]  Can you imagine you're sitting there and waiting for this movie to start?
[00:12:29]  And a woman comes in in a big bird hat?
[00:12:31]  This is outrageous.
[00:12:33]  Anyway, she finally took it off.
[00:12:34]  Were you there to see the Sesame Street?
[00:12:36]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:12:37]  That's true.
[00:12:38]  We need a little context for that.
[00:12:39]  A little Sesame Street on it.
[00:12:40]  Did she take off the hat?
[00:12:42]  She did eventually, but it was like, I couldn't stop laughing, waiting to see if she was going to take off the hat.

=== Big Bird Hat Incident (15:45) ===

[00:12:49]  That's incredible.
[00:12:51]  I'm just like, you can't come in late with the big bird on.
[00:12:55]  No, you can't.
[00:12:57]  I always wondered how like crust punks or street punks ever went to the movies either because they get them big old spikes in their hair.
[00:13:02]  It's like, you really got to sit in the back row for that.
[00:13:05]  And you're going to be so, you know, if you're making those choices and I support those choices because I support the right to choose.
[00:13:12]  Yeah.
[00:13:13]  Then you also got to, you know, have the self-awareness to sit in the back.
[00:13:18]  Yeah.
[00:13:20]  Well, I'll tell you, who wasn't able to sit in the back or sit anywhere?
[00:13:26]  I don't really know where I'm going with that.
[00:13:28]  No, I'll go somewhere with that.
[00:13:31]  I'll tell you, if it was, if it was societally okay to discriminate against quirky freaks, then unfortunately, Miss Cinema would be our Rosa Parks.
[00:13:49]  That's terrible.
[00:13:51]  Wait.
[00:13:51]  I think we are talking about a series of lawsuits today.
[00:13:55]  That's what I say.
[00:13:56]  Okay, yeah.
[00:13:57]  A series of lawsuits.
[00:13:59]  You don't want to preface the episode with what?
[00:14:01]  I do want to.
[00:14:02]  I'm going to preface.
[00:14:02]  I'm prefacing.
[00:14:03]  I'm prefacing.
[00:14:07]  You know, little, it's sex lie videotape.
[00:14:10]  That's what we got here.
[00:14:11]  Three lawsuits.
[00:14:12]  Three lawsuits each.
[00:14:16]  And you already let us know what the first one is, which is not just about cinema.
[00:14:24]  It is a little polycoded, which I will get into, even though it's not.
[00:14:30]  It's definitely an affair.
[00:14:32]  Well, it's unethical non-monogamy is what we're talking about.
[00:14:35]  That's a great, that's a great way to put it.
[00:14:38]  I'll say this.
[00:14:39]  A lot of pieces began to fall into place for me with Miss Cinema when I found out that she was raised Mormon.
[00:14:49]  Okay.
[00:14:50]  What do you, what do you mean by that?
[00:14:54]  You know, it's interesting.
[00:14:56]  I don't know.
[00:14:57]  And oftentimes that's the case.
[00:15:00]  But it's like one of those things.
[00:15:01]  You know how, like, you know, when God like talks to you and tells you to do stuff and it just, you don't know why.
[00:15:06]  And like, you don't even know if it's a good idea to be doing some of that stuff, but it feels right.
[00:15:10]  What I found out with Kristen Cinema, Kirsten Cinema.
[00:15:14]  No one knows.
[00:15:15]  We don't know.
[00:15:17]  When Miss Cinema was raised Mormon, it all made sense to me.
[00:15:22]  What's interesting to me is she was not only raised Mormon, she was raised broke as fuck Mormon.
[00:15:28]  Yeah.
[00:15:29]  So I was reading that she was raised Mormon and it was more like Mormon because they were always going to the Mormon church to get like food and water because they were so fucking broke.
[00:15:41]  So they were like dependent on the Mormon church.
[00:15:44]  Well, she was.
[00:15:44]  But she did go to Brigham Young.
[00:15:46]  So you got to be pretty Mormon to do that.
[00:15:49]  And it's interesting because at some point she was like, I don't want to be Mormon anymore.
[00:15:54]  I want more men in my life, which is what got her into trouble.
[00:15:58]  Yeah, it's true.
[00:15:59]  She did go.
[00:16:00]  She was raised broke as hell.
[00:16:01]  She lived in a little fucking gas station.
[00:16:03]  We were talking about this before it started the show started.
[00:16:05]  The New York Times did like a debunking essay or like whatever, like article about like she lied about being poor.
[00:16:12]  I got to tell you, it's one of the worst of those that I've read.
[00:16:15]  It's terrible.
[00:16:16]  And it wasn't even from that long ago.
[00:16:17]  It was from 2018, I guess, I think, something around then for when she was like running for re-election, I think.
[00:16:24]  And they were like, basically, like what they were like the whole thing hinged on statements she made that were like, you know, I grew up without running water.
[00:16:36]  I grew up without electricity.
[00:16:38]  And then they're like, riddle me this.
[00:16:40]  You also said that you flushed a toilet once, but you can't do that if you have running water.
[00:16:46]  It's like, babe.
[00:16:48]  I mean, they show the picture of the house that she grew up in.
[00:16:52]  And it's, she had like, I'll get to be real.
[00:16:55]  She was living in like depression style lodgings in like the 80s.
[00:17:00]  Yeah.
[00:17:00]  I mean, it was like an abandoned gas station.
[00:17:03]  She was quite poor, it appears.
[00:17:05]  Quite poor.
[00:17:07]  At Brigham Young, she discovered possibly hustling, something which does go on there.
[00:17:12]  She did stop being Mormon at some point in here.
[00:17:16]  And that might have been when she got her master's from Arizona State University, the number one party school in the USA.
[00:17:25]  And she's like, fuck this.
[00:17:27]  Like, oh, I fucking, I'm not Mormon anymore.
[00:17:29]  I discovered a new creed to belong to that's also discriminated against and that also will one day have its own state.
[00:17:36]  That, no, you think you think you know what I'm talking about.
[00:17:40]  It is bisexuality.
[00:17:42]  You were right.
[00:17:42]  She became bisexual.
[00:17:45]  Not sure why that is relevant.
[00:17:49]  It is relevant because of her personality.
[00:17:53]  Yeah, it is.
[00:17:54]  Well, no, but I just don't think it's relevant.
[00:17:56]  But it's interesting.
[00:17:57]  I thought it was the quintessential, like corked up bisexual gen X, sir.
[00:18:03]  That is true.
[00:18:04]  I guess bisexuality does manifest itself differently across the generations.
[00:18:08]  It does.
[00:18:09]  You know?
[00:18:10]  No one take offense to this.
[00:18:12]  And if you do, I'm sorry.
[00:18:14]  It manifests itself in awesome ways every generation is what we're saying.
[00:18:18]  It's just different.
[00:18:18]  It's just different.
[00:18:19]  You know what I mean?
[00:18:20]  It's like it's like the difference between like a fucking raptor and a fucking T-Rex.
[00:18:24]  You're like, what do you think?
[00:18:25]  You know what?
[00:18:25]  You need to, you're talking about new guys, new characters.
[00:18:27]  How about the bisexual boomer?
[00:18:30]  Dude, I think that's like when you fucked a guy Jack Kerouac style.
[00:18:34]  You know what I mean?
[00:18:34]  I think the bisexual boomer is first of all, that name goes great.
[00:18:42]  That's great.
[00:18:43]  To me, I will say like, it seems like one in 20 boomer men either had consensual or semi-consensual sex with Alan Ginsburg.
[00:18:54]  And so I think that he's sort of responsible for every lived experience, not every, but 90 to 95% of lived experiences of bisexuality from people who grew up in the baby boom generation.
[00:19:06]  Okay.
[00:19:07]  Now, the greatest generation mostly had gay sex during World War I.
[00:19:11]  And then, of course, necessity, exactly, keep warm.
[00:19:15]  And then came back and married a sort of a malnourished Italian woman.
[00:19:20]  PTSD.
[00:19:21]  PTSD.
[00:19:21]  You're like, oh my God.
[00:19:23]  Which actually both those things show up in this story.
[00:19:26]  Yes.
[00:19:27]  So she joined the Green Party, leaves the church, becomes bisexual, and joins the Green Party.
[00:19:34]  Okay.
[00:19:34]  So this is like a classic Democrat trajectory, I think.
[00:19:38]  Yeah.
[00:19:39]  Like she really does have a classic, no one likes to say it, but it's true.
[00:19:43]  The classic like progressive story, which is Ralph Needer supporter, organized anti-war protest, tried to win as an independent, and then switches it up, goes and works in the state house as a progressive, gets into Congress, and is like, no, actually, to really get stuff done, I got to work with all these terrible people and maybe also take a ton of money on the side.
[00:20:09]  And then she just like becomes a super like aggressive conservative blue dog.
[00:20:15]  Yes.
[00:20:15]  I know it's, it's, it's actually, it's, it's interesting because I think she was sort of known as a fucking joke, right?
[00:20:22]  Like I'm trying to think of who even was a big cinema person.
[00:20:25]  Dude, the only person I can think of is Matt Iglesias.
[00:20:28]  Was he a cinema head?
[00:20:29]  I don't know if he was a cinema head, but he defended cinema probably from his contrarian impulses and his like extremely online like social beefs.
[00:20:39]  But I feel like because he was like a mansion cinema defender, I feel like he still is.
[00:20:45]  Yeah, he's and that animates a lot of his like support for Glusenkampf or whatever the fuck her name is, who is our cinema.
[00:20:56]  She is except and she is actually Glusenkamp is an interesting one too, because we saw her in person.
[00:21:04]  Actually, I fainted, which we didn't mention in the episode.
[00:21:06]  I sort of, I had the vapors as she passed and I stood up, fainted.
[00:21:11]  He was a Kenzian.
[00:21:12]  Slapped me awake and then kept slapping me because I was just, my tongue was lolling out of my head as if I was having, you know, some kind of mental breakdown, which it turns out that I was.
[00:21:25]  But she is definitely more millennial cinema as cinema is a Gen X. She's millennial quirked and cinema is Gen X quirked.
[00:21:35]  And these are very different, just like the whole bisexuality thing is different.
[00:21:38]  I think cinema's famous moment was her gladiator style thumbs down.
[00:21:47]  Yeah, that's when she voted against the $15 minimum wage in March of 2021.
[00:21:52]  I'm sorry, it is crazy to think.
[00:21:55]  I know the years blur together, but when you think about like what then ends up happening with inflation and everything post-COVID, that you vote down fucking $15 an hour, it's like, man, you fucking suck.
[00:22:10]  You suck, lady.
[00:22:12]  So there has also been, and this is something that also intersects a bit with what we're talking about in this lawsuit against her, a lot of scandals around her spending of money on things that maybe it's not okay to spend money on if you're collected that money as part of a political campaign.
[00:22:35]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:22:35]  Campaign funds splurging.
[00:22:38]  So she ran, she ran in the Boston Marathon.
[00:22:42]  She's a big marathon.
[00:22:44]  She's an Iron Man woman, which is something I want to return to in a second.
[00:22:49]  Tough.
[00:22:49]  Could you imagine how awesome it would feel to fucking run across the finish line hand in hand with her at a tough mudder competition?
[00:22:58]  Yeah, but in a Tony Sark outfit.
[00:23:01]  She spent a bunch of money on a fundraiser.
[00:23:06]  Mind you, this is a congresswoman and senator from Arizona on running the Boston Marathon during which she spent $9,000 on a stay at the Boston Ritz, I guess.
[00:23:21]  Yeah.
[00:23:22]  I also included a photo here because I wanted you to see she's wearing body glitter.
[00:23:28]  This is the thing.
[00:23:29]  I know that people do this for marathons.
[00:23:31]  They're like, for some reason, everyone who runs a marathon is like, you know what I got to do for the marathon?
[00:23:36]  I got to put on a weird outfit.
[00:23:38]  My nipples are bleeding.
[00:23:40]  I'm shitting myself a little bit and I'm covered in body glitter.
[00:23:44]  What is up with that?
[00:23:46]  Liz, I'll tell you this.
[00:23:48]  Ever since my people went from predator to prey and then unfortunately back to predator, I have tried to avoid running with large groups of people because it makes me feel as if I'm being chased by something.
[00:24:03]  And so I don't know.
[00:24:04]  It's difficult for me to get in the mind of a marathoner.
[00:24:10]  I got to tell you, her spending habits are out of control.
[00:24:14]  This is from an FEC complaint from 2023, which mostly deals with 2022.
[00:24:19]  And this isn't the FEC themselves saying this is a group in Arizona complaining about cinema.
[00:24:26]  And it says, just like basically detailing all the shit that she's spending money on.
[00:24:32]  And this is 2022, by the way.
[00:24:33]  Her spending only ramped up.
[00:24:35]  It says wine and alcohol.
[00:24:37]  Respondents made nearly $20,000 in campaign and pack expenditures for wine and alcohol related expenses during the period in question, including $14,387.91 at 14 wineries in California and Oregon and a $4,633 payment to Valley Wine Merchants of Newburgh, Oregon.
[00:24:56]  The filing also notes, it's particularly unusual for a political campaign in Arizona, a state with a small wine industry constituency, to spend almost $20,000 at vineyards and specialty wine merchants in winemaking states outside of Arizona.
[00:25:10]  I'm sorry.
[00:25:11]  But the report.
[00:25:11]  I want to see the wineries she spent on.
[00:25:14]  I actually, I have the list.
[00:25:15]  I can see it.
[00:25:15]  Oh, really?
[00:25:16]  Yeah, I want to see it.
[00:25:18]  Also details her love of expensive restaurants, Pieder and Sketch in London, a Tempo in Barcelona, Buddha Bar in Paris, which is, I think, the only one of those I've actually heard of.
[00:25:31]  And the Russian tea room here in New York City.
[00:25:34]  I got to be honest, I'm not sure if the Russian tea room is necessarily like something I'd be like, this is a fancy, fancy restaurant.
[00:25:42]  I mean, it's fancy in a way, but I don't think most people are going there for dinner.
[00:25:45]  They're going there for the tea service, which I've never been there for, but it can't be that much money.
[00:25:50]  I feel like Atempo has a Michelin star.
[00:25:54]  Yes, actually, I deleted that from the notes, but several, it talks about her predilection for liking things that are Michelin star or Michelin recommended.
[00:26:02]  And that seems to be the focus of a lot of her dining experiences.
[00:26:07]  She also stayed at a bunch of luxury hotels, Leroche Hotel and Spa in Paris, Hotel Lancaster, Vale.
[00:26:14]  And then actually, I stopped copying them down because I was like, I actually have never heard of the rest of these.
[00:26:18]  And I looked some of them up and they all look expensive.
[00:26:20]  But it's like she loves staying at fancy ass, nice places.
[00:26:24]  It's also talking about, I didn't put this in the notes, but it talks about her Uber and private travel spending.
[00:26:29]  And they're like, at one point, she spent like $8,000 in one day in one city.
[00:26:34]  It was either $4,000 or $8,000.
[00:26:36]  Either of those is absurd on one day's travel in one city.
[00:26:39]  Just in like black cars stuck in traffic.
[00:26:42]  Yes.
[00:26:43]  Like she is, I mean, how much traffic are you stuck in?
[00:26:46]  You know what I mean?
[00:26:47]  I mean, no wonder she took so much money from private equity.
[00:26:51]  But there was a lot of articles and, you know, sort of this like minor controversies around her spending habits.
[00:26:57]  But the reality is we all hate her for one reason and one reason only.
[00:27:01]  It's because she's really annoying.
[00:27:04]  She sucks.
[00:27:05]  She's annoying.
[00:27:06]  She's annoying.
[00:27:07]  I don't like her style.
[00:27:08]  I don't like looking at her.
[00:27:10]  I mean, her politics suck.
[00:27:12]  All those things.
[00:27:12]  She's corrupt as hell.
[00:27:13]  Bada, bada, bada.
[00:27:15]  But she's so annoying.
[00:27:20]  It's how would you describe you work?
[00:27:23]  You work in fashion, right?
[00:27:24]  Like you sell the along with the rest of us, the true and unmerch store.
[00:27:30]  So obviously we dabble.
[00:27:32]  I was going to be more for a long time.
[00:27:36]  How would you describe her style?
[00:27:40]  I think that it's, I think that she's kind of a lost soul a little bit.
[00:27:47]  And I think that actually her obsession with Michelin stars and like ratings and super nice things is like a very this is there's a kind of like American middle class taste that fancies itself upper middle class and thinks it can kind of like do that by utilizing these sorts of popular lists of like.
[00:28:13]  I've been to all of these places and I've been to all of these restaurants and I wear all of these clothes like, for example, I don't know if you knew this, but she is a prolific Facebook marketplace seller, especially with designer clothing, because I could see her having a designer clothing obsession but also not having style.
[00:28:33]  Do you know what I'm saying?
[00:28:34]  I do.

=== Boho Fashion Misconceptions (04:39) ===

[00:28:35]  It's it.
[00:28:36]  I sort of think of her and I think of these things in much cruder terms.
[00:28:39]  I don't know what.
[00:28:40]  I just want to be clear here.
[00:28:41]  I don't know what boho means to me.
[00:28:43]  I think it means you wear a lot of scarf.
[00:28:46]  Johnny Depp, right?
[00:28:48]  I think we talked about this when we did the episode about and I know he's pirate core.
[00:28:54]  It's a whole different thing, but it is.
[00:28:56]  That's boho in a way, but it's not really to me.
[00:29:00]  She is.
[00:29:02]  I didn't see the Barbie movie.
[00:29:04]  I want to say that, but she reminds me of Boho Barbie movie preview that I did see, in that she is very eclectic and and there's all these, like you know, greens and pinks and sort of neon colors, but she's also, I feel like, often draped in fabrics I don't i'm struggling to to.
[00:29:25]  I think she loves like fun.
[00:29:27]  She loves like something kind of fun, I think she also.
[00:29:31]  But she also has like a huge Apple watch.
[00:29:35]  You know what i'm saying, awesome, like she's, she's optimizing for all of her.
[00:29:40]  You know uh, whatever Iron Man's she's doing and she's like crazy, she's got her crazy.
[00:29:48]  Like she reminds, like how many Stanley Cups do you think she owns and how many do you think are bedazzled?
[00:29:55]  That's a great question.
[00:29:56]  I'm gonna say we're going at least five Stanleys and then she's doing a like very tick, tock influenced home workout in her garage that she's set up.
[00:30:07]  You know what I mean?
[00:30:08]  Like i'm just just paint a picture here.
[00:30:10]  Is this somebody who likes like, loves Target, loved going to Target or would have loved it like 10 years ago?
[00:30:16]  I mean, i'm sure she.
[00:30:18]  I don't sure.
[00:30:20]  Yeah, I mean, obviously she likes the finer things in life now, but i'm saying like on a spiritual level yeah, definitely a Target over a Walmart if that's what you're saying.
[00:30:28]  Oh yeah, easy anyway.
[00:30:30]  Why are we talking about all this?
[00:30:32]  Because she illegally had sex.
[00:30:37]  It's been under so rare is the time that we need to make a true Melkalba on this podcast, but now is one of them.
[00:30:46]  For a long time, I have been misinforming our audience that whenever we talk about a philandering person, we make note that it's not illegal to cheat.
[00:30:56]  It is now, it is apparently in some places.
[00:30:59]  I had no idea.
[00:31:01]  The nanny state, which unfortunately named as oftentimes, one has an affair with such a person in North Carolina is actually makes it illegal.
[00:31:12]  Well, I don't know, illegal is the word, but civilly, you are civilly liable if you home wreck a household by being too good at sex.
[00:31:22]  And now, I want to be, I want to be honest with you guys.
[00:31:26]  I didn't know this, and this is dangerous, I think, because if you can be sued for this, you can be sued for anything.
[00:31:36]  Well, that's not true, but I did, I had no idea.
[00:31:39]  It's called alienation of affection, and you can, and one spouse can actually sue a paramour for intentionally destroying the marriage.
[00:31:50]  You can like sue someone and get money.
[00:31:53]  She, I mean, she, anyway, that's what's happening.
[00:31:55]  No, I was reading about it.
[00:31:56]  One dude got sued.
[00:31:58]  All right.
[00:31:58]  And this was kind of crazy.
[00:31:59]  A decent amount of money.
[00:32:01]  One dude got sued.
[00:32:03]  All right.
[00:32:04]  This one guy, I can't remember anybody in this's names, but honestly, I'm going to get the amount wrong too, but the amount kind of doesn't even matter after a certain point.
[00:32:11]  I read this one story about a guy whose wife could not stop fucking her coworker.
[00:32:17]  She loved having sex with him.
[00:32:19]  He would catch them and he'd be like, You please stop fucking your coworker.
[00:32:22]  She'd be like, Of course I will.
[00:32:25]  One week later, back to fucking coworker.
[00:32:27]  This goes on for quite a long time.
[00:32:29]  And eventually he catches her on the GPS.
[00:32:32]  Now, I got to tell you, if you're addicted to cheating, probably turn the old location off on the iPhone or whatever.
[00:32:38]  But fortunately, I guess this is the caliber of cheater we're dealing with here in North Carolina.
[00:32:44]  Anyways, the husband, the cuckolded man, sues the paramour and gets either five or eight million dollars.
[00:32:52]  I can't remember which, but many millions of dollars to a point where you're like, well, this is what does this mean?
[00:32:58]  So it's like, I don't know how this works, but like if I am such an expert cocksman in North Carolina that I ruin so many marriages, I accumulate so many civil suits for my lovemaking capabilities.

=== Cuckold's Revenge (03:52) ===

[00:33:15]  And like, I'm like, whatever.
[00:33:16]  I'm working at fucking, you know, AutoZone.
[00:33:20]  Am I like having my AutoZone check garnished every month because I had I had too much sex?
[00:33:26]  Probably.
[00:33:28]  It's like, oh, guys, I can't go out.
[00:33:29]  Yeah, and probably, look, you're, you know, you're a sovereign citizen.
[00:33:32]  So you probably defended yourself really poorly.
[00:33:35]  I would go in there and be like, I didn't know.
[00:33:37]  Yeah.
[00:33:38]  How come he can't, you know, if that's his woman, how come she wasn't at his house?
[00:33:41]  Which actually is.
[00:33:42]  I do want to say really quick, this isn't the case in all states.
[00:33:46]  In fact, almost no states have this law on their books, but North Carolina does, which is where this suit takes place.
[00:33:54]  So let's break this down.
[00:33:56]  Filed by a woman named Heather Amel Amel.
[00:34:00]  What do you want to say?
[00:34:01]  What's a hostile going to be?
[00:34:03]  Amel.
[00:34:03]  Amel.
[00:34:04]  Heather Amel.
[00:34:05]  Yeah, Heather Amel.
[00:34:06]  Heather Amel's husband is Matthew Amel, who is a former U.S. Army, well, ex-husband, I think now, a former U.S. Army guy who also has PTSD and traumatic brain injury.
[00:34:22]  Two reasons I'm saying that.
[00:34:23]  One, it will be relevant later for some details, but I also think it's relevant now because he did have an affair with Chris.
[00:34:31]  Well, so this could go either way.
[00:34:33]  First of all, all these veterans have PTS.
[00:34:37]  You know, they're all 100% disabled, but you know, able to work and stuff.
[00:34:43]  TBI, it is interesting that he wouldn't, well, I guess we haven't seen the defense yet, but my defense, if I was being sued over this, would be like, Your Honor, I got bonked in the head too much and thought Kirsten Cinema, Kristen Cinema, was my wife.
[00:34:58]  Right.
[00:34:58]  Yeah.
[00:34:58]  Well, I'm surprised he didn't try that, to be honest, with all the stuff he did try as detailed in this suit.
[00:35:04]  So Matthew was hired onto Kristen's Kirsten's Kirsten's.
[00:35:12]  Kirsten's.
[00:35:13]  It is Kirsten's.
[00:35:14]  And like, it's spelled like Kierke Stan.
[00:35:17]  I know.
[00:35:17]  And ladies and gentlemen, if you're like a cinema stan, of which we have a surprise, I would say estimate maybe 10 to 20% of our audience is, and you're offended that we don't know how to say her name because we got a little bit of woke scolded over whatever Miss Harris's, Mrs. Harris's first name is.
[00:35:37]  Kamala, Kamala, etc.
[00:35:41]  I'll just say this.
[00:35:42]  The K's are tough with this team that we got here.
[00:35:46]  We don't know.
[00:35:47]  It's Kirsten Cinema.
[00:35:49]  Kirsten Cinema.
[00:35:51]  And then when you say it like that, how could it be anything else?
[00:35:53]  You're right.
[00:35:54]  You're right.
[00:35:55]  Okay, so Matthew was hired onto Kirsten's security detail in 2022, both as a personal security guard, and then later she promotes him to be a paid Senate staffer.
[00:36:07]  We'll get into that.
[00:36:08]  Now, Cinema's head of security resigned the following year, and the suit says that prior to them leaving, her head of security said she had, and this is a quote from it, concerns defendant was having sexual relations with other security members and then encouraged Matthew to leave with her.
[00:36:29]  But Matthew said, no, I can't.
[00:36:31]  I got to stay because of the money.
[00:36:34]  Okay.
[00:36:35]  So he's already right off the bat.
[00:36:38]  He's lying.
[00:36:39]  I know, but here's the deal.
[00:36:41]  Sometimes you're out with all your friends at a spot and like you're talking to a girl and then like a woman you're friends with is like, don't that like that girl's a slut.
[00:36:50]  Don't go home with her or something like that.
[00:36:51]  Like something really mean.
[00:36:53]  And you're like, you go home.
[00:36:56]  I'm staying here.
[00:36:58]  I feel like it's that situation.
[00:36:59]  You know what I mean?
[00:37:01]  Now, I want to talk about who that head of security was because this is really weird.
[00:37:07]  You say it.

=== Intimidating Security Dynamics (13:06) ===

[00:37:08]  Vrindivian Gabbard Bellard?
[00:37:13]  You will never make it.
[00:37:15]  You will never make it in the East India Company.
[00:37:19]  My lady, it's Brindaban Gabbard Beloin.
[00:37:26]  Okay.
[00:37:26]  This is Tulsi Gabbard's sister.
[00:37:29]  The one and only.
[00:37:30]  And now the Bellard comes from her husband, Rupa Bellard, who is the son of Richard Bellard, who, according to a New Yorker profile on Tulsi, has an ex-wife who's married to the leader of the cult that Tulsi and her sister and their husbands, presumably, belong to the Science of Identity Foundation, which is, of course, an offshoot of Krishna.
[00:37:55]  This is where a lot of the like Hindu nationalist claims come from, correct?
[00:37:59]  Yes.
[00:38:00]  And she is, as far as we know, still a member of this cult.
[00:38:03]  I mean, they're like a, they're a strange group.
[00:38:09]  A very strange group.
[00:38:10]  I will say from all the reporting I've read, it seems like Tulsi has been completely sidelined in the administration.
[00:38:16]  I mean, Tulsi, who?
[00:38:18]  I haven't, when's the last time we heard anything from her?
[00:38:20]  And it's not like shit isn't hitting the fan right now.
[00:38:23]  I know.
[00:38:24]  I know.
[00:38:24]  And you know who her second in command is?
[00:38:26]  It's fucking Joe Kent, who was like, I did know that.
[00:38:30]  The Neo-nazi alleged uh, Groyper kind of guy before he had his big falling out with Nick Fuentes?
[00:38:37]  Uh, who was, I believe was running for Congress?
[00:38:40]  I think he actually.
[00:38:41]  No, you know what he lost to Marie Glusenkamp Perez.
[00:38:45]  Okay, and now look at him.
[00:38:47]  Now look at him.
[00:38:48]  Um, so it's.
[00:38:52]  This is a Vrindavan.
[00:38:53]  Vrindavan, who goes by Dovon, at one point, I believe, was a U.s marshal, according to a 2011 facebook post by her dad and, of course, cult member Mike Gabbard but this is also from that same fec complaint filed in 2023, by Change FOR Arizona.
[00:39:09]  Could you read this out?
[00:39:10]  In december 2021, Vrindavan Gabbard formed a company called TOA Group LLC and senator Cinema's campaign began paying TOA Group for security services.
[00:39:22]  TOA group's corporate filings show only one officer, Vrindavan Bellard.
[00:39:27]  Respondents made three hundred and seven thousand and twelve dollars and seventy nine cents in expenditures of campaign or pack funds to TOA Group during 2022, and another sixty four thousand three hundred and seven dollars and ninety one cents in the first quarter of 2023, representing more than half of the total security expenses of senator Cinema's campaign man.
[00:39:55]  Notably, senator Cinema's campaign expenditures on security far surpass that of other members of Congress, save for senator Raphael Warnock.
[00:40:04]  I love that you completed that so.
[00:40:08]  So I was trying to figure out, to get to the bottom of this a little bit, to see exactly how much she spent.
[00:40:15]  One article in the Daily Beast says that she spent 20 of her campaign funds on security and I read I can't remember where I read this, but I think it was also maybe the Daily Beast she ended up spending half a million dollars on security and, by the way, it's super unusual for your security firm just to be like one sister who has one client, and it's you, because TOA Group has a website.
[00:40:41]  Yeah, and it's TOA Group.
[00:40:43]  Protect THE Village is what it says, but there's no.
[00:40:45]  Protect AND Serve THE Village.
[00:40:47]  Yes, there's no, like other clients, like it's a fake company.
[00:40:52]  So, but why, I mean, do you think they were having an affair?
[00:40:58]  Oh damn, she's bisexual.
[00:41:01]  Yeah, she is bisexual.
[00:41:03]  But Liz, I think you're playing into tropes that I think are kind of dangerous about the perfidity of bisexuals, and i'm just like, why would you pay her three hundred thousand dollars?
[00:41:15]  Well, I could I, I could understand paying her three hundred thousand dollars to shut the up.
[00:41:20]  And it's funny because uh her, her twitter uh, Vrindavan's twitter is like locked, it's she stopped tweeting in 2020 and it's like still when Tulsi Gabbard was like this progressive or whatever.
[00:41:33]  And so they're all like tweets.
[00:41:35]  Oh, they're because she like it's all boosting Tulsi and I guess her because she ran for president in 2020 yeah right, yeah.
[00:41:41]  And And it's all like when Tulsi was progressive.
[00:41:44]  So it's sort of this like time capsule from that period.
[00:41:47]  Yeah.
[00:41:48]  Crazy.
[00:41:49]  Six years.
[00:41:49]  I know.
[00:41:51]  It's it's it's it's crazy.
[00:41:54]  I mean, I wonder, I hope Vrenda Van is fine now.
[00:41:57]  You know what?
[00:41:57]  If we need security, maybe actually I can just hire her when you're out.
[00:42:01]  Yeah, that would be good.
[00:42:03]  Me and Gabbard.
[00:42:04]  Yeah, see what she's up to.
[00:42:06]  And maybe Gabby Gifford, too.
[00:42:09]  Can she talk?
[00:42:10]  So let's get back to the lawsuit.
[00:42:13]  Matthew, the man in question.
[00:42:17]  So he would obviously, you know, he's working security.
[00:42:19]  He would obviously work a ton of events with cinema, but he would also like accompany her on trips, including one of the trips to Napa in the fall of 2023.
[00:42:30]  His wife says that he would come home from the trip uncomfortable and told her that if anyone had seen them on the trip, it would have had appeared to be a romantic getaway.
[00:42:43]  This is what he told his wife.
[00:42:45]  He was like, oh man, I'm so uncomfortable working for this woman because she's like kind of physical with me.
[00:42:52]  And, you know, I think that if people saw us together, they would get the impression we were romantic, which makes me super uncomfortable.
[00:42:59]  I feel like that's because there were some Instagram pictures.
[00:43:01]  It's like he's saying that for a reason.
[00:43:03]  Of course.
[00:43:04]  No, that's what I'm saying.
[00:43:05]  He does this over and over and over again through the years.
[00:43:08]  He thinks he's doing like 12-dimensional chess with his wife, but he, no.
[00:43:13]  No.
[00:43:14]  No.
[00:43:15]  Because his wife was probably like, oh, he works for this lady when he went on a fundraising trip.
[00:43:20]  And he's like, damn, she was, it really felt like, man, it felt like I had another wife out there.
[00:43:25]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:43:26]  But it was not like that for me.
[00:43:27]  But if it was for other people, they would be like, wow, you're married to a fucking congresswoman.
[00:43:31]  That's crazy.
[00:43:32]  Like, no, I'm married to a boring lady in North Carolina.
[00:43:35]  Named Heather.
[00:43:36]  Named Heather.
[00:43:38]  So next month, Kirsten.
[00:43:42]  Correct.
[00:43:45]  Asked Matthew to come with her to a YouTube concert at the sphere.
[00:43:48]  And I just want to say this.
[00:43:50]  Kirsten Cinema at a YouTube concert at the sphere.
[00:43:54]  That shit goes crazy, man.
[00:44:02]  I feel like what happened that night, you know what?
[00:44:05]  What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, but especially when it comes to Kirsten Cinema.
[00:44:11]  I'll say this.
[00:44:13]  Recently, a video came out of several Democratic politicians imploring troops to not follow illegal orders.
[00:44:21]  If only that video had come out before the trip with Kirsten Cinema to see you two at the sphere in Las Vegas, this whole lawsuit didn't have to happen.
[00:44:40]  So Matthew wisely asked his wife to come with him.
[00:44:46]  This is from the suit, expressed that the trip would be a great opportunity for Heather to meet Kirsten and would help establish boundaries.
[00:44:56]  She hadn't met her before.
[00:44:57]  I find that interesting.
[00:44:58]  Well, this is where I feel things are getting a little, I don't know.
[00:45:01]  It's like he's trying to manipulate the situation.
[00:45:05]  Like clearly something had already started with them, obviously.
[00:45:09]  And he, I feel like he's trying to get ahead of the situation or manipulate it by being like, look at how open I am.
[00:45:15]  Look how open I am.
[00:45:16]  See, you come and nothing's weird here.
[00:45:18]  And then, because otherwise, how do you say like, oh, I got to go hang out with her and Sydney McCain at the YouTube concert at the sphere, the newly opened sphere.
[00:45:28]  Obviously, anyone in this age cohort would be supremely jealous of that.
[00:45:34]  Absolutely, they would.
[00:45:35]  So he's trying to get ahead of it.
[00:45:37]  But I also think he's trying to, Maybe you're trying to see if something is available there.
[00:45:42]  Maybe you open it up.
[00:45:43]  Maybe we'll see if they see how quirky things get that night.
[00:45:46]  If we're all vibing together, maybe we'll do a massage train.
[00:45:51]  Nope.
[00:45:51]  Massage train didn't work, my brother.
[00:45:53]  You went on a different train to Marriage Dachau, where your shit was ended in a very tragic way.
[00:46:00]  Because after the U2 concert, much like, I remember, much like the R. Kelly song, after the U2 concert, up to Cindy McCain's suite.
[00:46:12]  And it is there that Heather is face to face with Kirsten, who offers Heather a glass, swirling it around, even though it's champagne, of Dom Parignon.
[00:46:24]  And she says she looks, I presumably, Heather in the eyes.
[00:46:28]  Well, it's definitely Heather, but presumably in the eyes.
[00:46:31]  And she says, Did you ever think you would be drinking Dom in Sidney McCain's suite?
[00:46:40]  This is what I'm talking about.
[00:46:41]  I mean, this is the same trip.
[00:46:42]  This is the same taste level I'm talking about.
[00:46:44]  This is the same trip that Sydney McCain famously had one of her pressured one of her background dancers to eat a banana out of a stripper's vagina.
[00:46:51]  That's not.
[00:46:54]  Don't put that image out there.
[00:46:55]  How did Lizzo get past that?
[00:46:58]  How did Lizzo get past that?
[00:47:01]  She survived.
[00:47:02]  She survived.
[00:47:03]  And we're with you.
[00:47:04]  We stand with you, Lizzo.
[00:47:06]  So Heather presents this as proof.
[00:47:09]  And I tend to agree with Heather here.
[00:47:11]  Not having seen all the information, having seen only Heather's side of events, that this shows that Kirsten knew what Kirsten was doing here.
[00:47:17]  Yes, absolutely.
[00:47:19]  But I think the smoking gun was the text messages.
[00:47:22]  It's always the text messages.
[00:47:23]  Always the text messages.
[00:47:24]  So Heather discovers them about a month after the YouTube concert.
[00:47:28]  So this is July 2024.
[00:47:30]  They were using Signal, which I feel like is an important detail.
[00:47:36]  Wouldn't you auto-delete?
[00:47:37]  Isn't that like the whole thing?
[00:47:38]  I guess the point of Signal is that it's secure, but if you're-I have no idea.
[00:47:42]  She describes them as consisting.
[00:47:45]  I feel like you got to say this in your voice.
[00:47:49]  She describes them consisting of romantic and lascivious natures.
[00:47:55]  I love that.
[00:47:56]  I love that.
[00:47:58]  That sucks.
[00:47:59]  I cannot even comprehend how difficult it would feel or be rather to open up your fucking because she must have known he was cheating if she's like looking at his phone or whatever, you know, looking at his fucking signal.
[00:48:14]  And to see, like.
[00:48:16]  Well, let's talk about what he saw.
[00:48:19]  Photos of Kirsten Cinema in a towel.
[00:48:24]  Kirsten offering to help Matthew with his mental health struggles.
[00:48:29]  Matthew saying, Gosh, you are so intimidating to me.
[00:48:32]  There's a whole exchange where Matthew's like, it's just so hard talking to you because I think you're so intimidating.
[00:48:40]  And Kirsten's like, really?
[00:48:42]  You think I'm intimidating?
[00:48:44]  That's so crazy.
[00:48:46]  No one says that.
[00:48:47]  I'm not that intimidating.
[00:48:48]  You think I'm intimidating?
[00:48:50]  No, but it's so basic.
[00:48:53]  It's so fucking basic.
[00:48:55]  Then there's a whole thing where Kirsten is like, you should bring MDMA on our next work trip because I want to guide you through a psychedelic experience.
[00:49:06]  I cannot, this is interesting because it's like a sort of, and I hate to, I mean, this is, this movie got so blown out, but obviously you've seen Sallow, right?
[00:49:18]  And to me, Sallow is like, it's this cascading nightmare of like more horrible and horrible and horrible experiences until it finally sort of culminates with this orgy of death and, you know, corporia and, you know, rape and all this stuff, horrible things.
[00:49:34]  It's hell, basically.
[00:49:35]  It ends in hell.
[00:49:37]  This lawsuit gives a similar feeling where every single scene described is like more shitty than the last one.
[00:49:47]  And having Kirsten Cinema, Kirsten Cinema, be like, I would love to guide you.
[00:49:55]  Because remember, if we're taking this guy at face value, he is PTSD and he is TBI.
[00:50:01]  And if someone was like, we're going to give you fucking MDMA and be like, it's okay.
[00:50:06]  It's okay.
[00:50:07]  The Iraqis forgive you or whatever.
[00:50:10]  And like whisper and massage him, it's crazy to me.

=== Why Honey Thinks Polyamory (10:04) ===

[00:50:14]  Also, there is, everyone's going to be like, oh, MDMA isn't like Gen X coded.
[00:50:22]  Here's the thing.
[00:50:23]  It is.
[00:50:25]  Just because you're not.
[00:50:26]  Watch small town ecstasy.
[00:50:27]  But like I'm saying, her, her like quintessential quirky Gen X-ness is so, I see it so clearly with her being a huge body glitter marathon woman who loves doing MDMA, but also for health reasons.
[00:50:47]  It just occurred to me that part of the reason I think we might associate her with Polyamory is because of that other congresswoman from Southwest, Arizona.
[00:50:56]  Exactly.
[00:50:57]  The South.
[00:50:58]  Here's the thing.
[00:50:59]  It's no, no, because I think that she, yeah, I mean, I don't know.
[00:51:05]  Maybe she is like too aged out of the polyamorous of the lifestyle.
[00:51:13]  But I feel like she's someone who would be open to that.
[00:51:19]  So I sort of like how Tulsi is involved, you know, learning these teachings from these masters.
[00:51:26]  I do this similar thing with a program called Decolonizing Polyamory.
[00:51:32]  And one thing that I've learned from that is that sometimes people think of Polly as, first of all, they have trouble uncoupling it from whiteness, which is crazy because a lot of cultures in different parts of the world where those things happen have practiced variations of polyamory.
[00:51:50]  Second is she's Mormon, so she obviously has trauma over that.
[00:51:55]  But also, it's like baked into her.
[00:51:57]  But third, something I learned from decolonizing polyamory is that one can be solo, Polly, and that Polly actually doesn't need to have, you don't need to be connected to this node because everyone has different emotional needs and some people need to sort of be solo.
[00:52:15]  And so she is actually practicing a form of non-ethical, non-monogamy as a solely, solo, polyamorous person, bisexual person.
[00:52:25]  So she is Polly, whether she identifies as such or not.
[00:52:29]  Obviously, I defer to her self-identification, but I will say from my studies in the field, which are ongoing and I'm still learning, I'm still learning, I'm still living, I believe she is non-ethical, non-monogas, solely solo polyamory.
[00:52:44]  But she also loves psychedelics, which is awesome.
[00:52:47]  She says she, I think, pays for him at one point to go to Nashville and have psychedelic treatment.
[00:52:53]  Yes.
[00:52:54]  She herself says that, and this isn't from the lawsuit, this is from some other shit that I read.
[00:52:59]  She herself says that she takes psychedelics to stave off dementia.
[00:53:04]  Judging by the outfits, honey.
[00:53:06]  It's a little too late.
[00:53:08]  And she is also very interested in Ibogaine, which is the most nightmarish drug that I've ever heard of in my entire life.
[00:53:14]  Wait, what is that?
[00:53:15]  Ibogaine is like, it's like ayahuasca, but you take it to get off heroin and you just bar for three days and you see the devil.
[00:53:20]  And then I think you don't feel withdrawals anymore.
[00:53:24]  Yeah.
[00:53:25]  I don't know.
[00:53:26]  It's also very, it's like, there's a little bit of RFK adjacent here.
[00:53:30]  Oh, yeah.
[00:53:31]  That's the thing.
[00:53:33]  If RFK and sometimes.
[00:53:37]  I'm surprised that link up has not happened.
[00:53:39]  I know.
[00:53:40]  Sometimes I think of her him as like the yellow in the rainbow and her as the blue.
[00:53:44]  And there's just all these bars separating them.
[00:53:46]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:53:48]  We are talking about this for so long.
[00:53:50]  I know.
[00:53:50]  Sorry.
[00:53:51]  Surprised.
[00:53:53]  I just, I didn't know he had so much to say about this.
[00:53:56]  She also purchased a Theragun for him, which is, I'm sorry.
[00:54:00]  If you're a wife and your husband's female boss or co-worker or friend any and buys him a Thera gun, na na That is the equivalent of a dildo in a situation like this.
[00:54:15]  Do not do that or do not accept that.
[00:54:17]  But she buys a Theragun and is like, hey, come over and work on my back.
[00:54:21]  How Gen X people sexed.
[00:54:24]  She's so quirky.
[00:54:26]  Wait, let me read just, I'm going to read this from the suit.
[00:54:29]  Around that same time, Mr. Amel traveled to Pennsylvania for a work trip with Staccato.
[00:54:37]  During his free time, Mr. Amel attended a baseball game by himself, but messaged defendant during the game stating he was going to start a quote, fuck the troops chant.
[00:54:47]  Defendant responded, stating she would, quote, fuck the hot ones.
[00:54:51]  Okay.
[00:54:52]  Defendant Mr. Amel messaged about having sex missionary style with the lights on.
[00:54:57]  And defendant said, boring.
[00:55:01]  Not true.
[00:55:01]  I am looking into your eyes and we are having a soul connection.
[00:55:06]  And also, that's for my betted partner.
[00:55:09]  My beta partners can all be there looking at us because the lights are off.
[00:55:13]  They can see from their vantage points.
[00:55:15]  They can see from the perched around the various vantage points.
[00:55:19]  He keeps trying to excuse himself.
[00:55:22]  His wife keeps catching him, it seems like.
[00:55:24]  And I got to tell you, Heather, you probably should have broken up with him the first time after he was clearly fucking his boss and then being like, no, I have to work for her still.
[00:55:36]  I also, I will say, yes.
[00:55:39]  I feel like Heather stuck with this way too long, but also she does build a very convincing lawsuit.
[00:55:46]  Yes.
[00:55:47]  And you can't, you know, you can't have it both ways.
[00:55:49]  And they got three kids together.
[00:55:50]  And maybe she saw that Kirsten Cinema is a child of divorce.
[00:55:54]  And she's like, I can't make other cinemas.
[00:55:56]  Oh, my God.
[00:55:56]  So one time he was working security and Kirsten was being super handsy with him.
[00:56:02]  And he told his wife, it's so awkward how she does this.
[00:56:07]  And I just don't know how to get out of it without offending her.
[00:56:10]  Come on, man.
[00:56:13]  This makes that even worse.
[00:56:15]  This is from the lawsuit.
[00:56:16]  Around May or June 2024, Mr. Amel stopped wearing his wedding ring.
[00:56:21]  Mr. Amel stated it was best for public optics.
[00:56:24]  So it wouldn't look like defendants was putting her hands on a married man when they were out at concerts and various other public events.
[00:56:31]  Ladies, if your man is taking off his wedding ring because he doesn't want it to look awkward when his boss gets handsy with him, that is not your man.
[00:56:44]  No, and I got to tell you, I would bet a billion dollars.
[00:56:48]  That is Kirsten Cinema's security detail.
[00:56:51]  No, that, well, yes, but that the wedding ring he was wearing was one of those like black rubber bands that they sell to guys so that they can like to wear to the gym.
[00:57:01]  I don't know what the purpose of them actually is, but you always see a certain kind of guy wearing those.
[00:57:06]  And that is the certain kind of guy that would have a years-long ongoing affair with Mademoiselle Cinema.
[00:57:14]  So she discovers more messages.
[00:57:16]  She's texting.
[00:57:17]  Kirsten is texting Matthew.
[00:57:19]  I keep waking up in the middle of the night and want you to hold me.
[00:57:23]  Honey, honey, that's acid reflux.
[00:57:26]  Well, finally, Heather confronts Matthew.
[00:57:29]  And it like takes months for him to like admit what was obvious, which is that he has been having an affair with Kirsten Cinema.
[00:57:36]  But then also he's like, and I'm divorcing you to be with her.
[00:57:42]  So they like still worked through all of that, which was like confusing as Kirsten continued the relationship to the point where like she would.
[00:57:53]  So Heather and Matthew would be in like mediation and like dealing with custody questions with the kids in North Carolina.
[00:58:05]  And Kirsten would be sitting in the parking lot in her car waiting for him.
[00:58:13]  Which like I can see so clearly.
[00:58:16]  Yes.
[00:58:18]  Yes.
[00:58:19]  Her long like nails tapping at her phone while she looks up at 30 seconds as someone exits the building.
[00:58:26]  Yes.
[00:58:27]  And she's got one of those like noxious like suction things in the back of her phone.
[00:58:32]  There's a sound.
[00:58:32]  Yes.
[00:58:33]  Yeah.
[00:58:33]  A pop socket.
[00:58:34]  That she got off of some affiliate link on TikTok shop.
[00:58:36]  And she's just like fucking with that.
[00:58:38]  And every time she moves, there's just these jangly noises that's like, but it's all, it's not just the jangle of coin, like it sounds like when I walk, but like the jangle of like bracelet and the jangle of jewelry and the jangle of things dangling off of her.
[00:58:51]  She's like grabbing, she's grabbing for her Stanley that's in the cuprest.
[00:58:55]  She'd be like, so loud.
[00:58:59]  She put like her extra electrolyte salt, but it's all salt because she's keto.
[00:59:04]  Yeah.
[00:59:04]  And there's just lipstick all over, all over the fucking.
[00:59:09]  She's so keto.
[00:59:09]  She loves having just like only cottage cheese for some reason.
[00:59:13]  It stinks in the car.
[00:59:15]  I mean, her musk is atrocious, right?
[00:59:18]  God.
[00:59:19]  And she just has, she like burps every few minutes.
[00:59:22]  Because she just goes, yeah.
[00:59:24]  And she like looks up.
[00:59:25]  She's just still looking up to see if he's there.
[00:59:27]  Her adder all is just, you can, every time she moves her arm, her purse, which is like still kind of like nestled between her and the car door, kind of jangles and you hear the pills shift in there.
[00:59:37]  And it's just, oh, God.
[00:59:40]  And then he comes in and he opens the door and they hear the jangle of keys.
[00:59:43]  And she looks and she's like, so how'd it go?
[00:59:45]  He's like, just, it's a complicated situation.
[00:59:49]  And then they drive to the nicest hotel in the research triangle at Raleigh Durham.
[00:59:54]  And they just have, and there's, and the lights are off, and the sex is not missionary, honey.
[00:59:59]  And let me tell you, that's what's happening there.
[01:00:01]  The sex is not missionary.
[01:00:03]  And there's probably some kind of strangely shaped device of such arcane nature that I couldn't even imagine for the purposes of this intellectual exercise, which orifice it could fit or attempt to fit inside.

=== Sex, Lies, and Beitar (15:48) ===

[01:00:18]  And it's just gross.
[01:00:20]  And they're listening to mute.
[01:00:21]  It's like, well, they got wean on.
[01:00:23]  They're fucking to wean.
[01:00:25]  It's just, you know what?
[01:00:26]  Also, there's snacks.
[01:00:28]  And there's that.
[01:00:29]  So this is you conflating her with that other Polly Southwest Congresswoman because there were snacks in that sense.
[01:00:36]  She was a blonde.
[01:00:38]  The snacks in that one stuck with me.
[01:00:40]  The ruffle.
[01:00:41]  It was the cheddar ruffles bag.
[01:00:43]  The cheddar ruffles bag and the party size.
[01:00:46]  Oh, the ched.
[01:00:48]  Cheddar ruffles.
[01:00:48]  I know you are bringing a party size to the poly orgy.
[01:00:51]  We're open-minded.
[01:00:52]  We're possibly the most open-minded sex and relationships focused podcast probably ever in history.
[01:01:01]  If you have chips out around anybody, and I'm going to go ahead and say this.
[01:01:08]  For people who don't know, I just want to be clear.
[01:01:10]  The chips were not like in a bowl on the coffee table.
[01:01:13]  The chips were just an open bag of party size cheddar and sour cream ruffles on the top of a dresser that had other things on it for use for that evening or day, I don't know what time it was.
[01:01:34]  You can't just have a bat like what you just dropped at seven oh, sling it on the top of the dresser next to whatever disgusting like Amazon lubricant you ordered for your night.
[01:01:46]  You're so right to say Amazon lubricant, but I, I want to.
[01:01:51]  I want to blow your mind with something right now, Because obviously none of us can remember this woman's name.
[01:01:58]  So we've just been referring to her obliquely as a polyamorous congresswoman from the Southwest, which is how we'll have to continue to refer to her.
[01:02:05]  Because while you were saying this, I was hurriedly and one-handedly, not because I'm masturbating, but because I'm clutching the microphone with one hand, because I do not have a mic stand at home, Googling Poly Congresswoman Southwest.
[01:02:18]  And I shit you not.
[01:02:20]  This is how bad Google is or how good it is without knowing it.
[01:02:24]  The name that comes up, first thing, the Wikipedia and then this stupid AI overview that I have to turn off because it's 100% wrong, 100% of the time, is Marie Glusenkamp Perez.
[01:02:38]  Who's by the way, as far as we know, not polyamorous and not from the, we definitely know not from the Southwest.
[01:02:44]  But you know what?
[01:02:46]  These AIs are making these rhizomatic connections that we can't even begin to understand.
[01:02:51]  But I can't believe that.
[01:02:52]  You know what?
[01:02:52]  I think it's telling us something.
[01:03:00]  So we spent a lot of time on Kirsten Cinema, which I think we could have spent another hour on that.
[01:03:06]  Yeah.
[01:03:06]  We have to sort of hurry through this next lawsuit because we got to get to the main event.
[01:03:12]  So this is lies.
[01:03:14]  This is lies.
[01:03:15]  This is sex, lies, and videotape.
[01:03:19]  This is the lies part.
[01:03:21]  Beitar, old foe of the podcast.
[01:03:24]  Now, many will remember that two years ago, I.
[01:03:27]  It was two years ago.
[01:03:29]  It might be.
[01:03:30]  Actually, Liz, I think it might have been three.
[01:03:32]  I don't remember.
[01:03:34]  I don't remember.
[01:03:34]  It could have been three years ago.
[01:03:37]  Certainly that hasn't been working so far.
[01:03:40]  Several years ago in Washington Square Park, as I was feeding the pigeons and practicing my Mandarin, I see a freakish looking, disgusting, one might say, bald man covered in freckles as if they were leprosy spots or moles from the guy that caused Austin Powers to have that fit and say mole many times in the Austin Powers movie.
[01:04:09]  Yes, nice to mole you.
[01:04:10]  Meet you.
[01:04:11]  Nice to meet you, Mo.
[01:04:12]  Don't say mole.
[01:04:13]  Disgusting creature screaming at these women sitting on a bench.
[01:04:17]  And I go up to him and I say, you must stop that.
[01:04:19]  And he accuses me, freaks out of loving Hamas, who I'd never heard of at the time, but I did Google afterwards.
[01:04:24]  And I think that they have some interesting things to say.
[01:04:26]  He gets angry at me.
[01:04:28]  He's videotaping everybody.
[01:04:29]  And then he posts it online under his screen name, Urban Warrior, and then under his real name, Ross Dlick.
[01:04:35]  I forgot about Urban Warrior.
[01:04:36]  Urban Warrior.
[01:04:38]  I got to check it on Urban Warrior.
[01:04:40]  Doesn't he have somewhat, another one that's like sexual vegan or something like that?
[01:04:44]  I think it was so sexual vegan.
[01:04:47]  No, it was the horny vegan.
[01:04:49]  It was the horny vegan.
[01:04:50]  And that was his, that was his restaurant, his fast cash.
[01:04:54]  Yes, so his restaurant was the horny vegan.
[01:04:56]  Failed fast cash.
[01:04:56]  Which is funny because obviously, I think, wait, no.
[01:04:59]  These all feel spiritually related to the bisexual boomer.
[01:05:03]  The slutty vegan is my most hated restaurant in the world because I walked in there just to see what was going on when they opened and they said, hey, slut to me.
[01:05:11]  And I turned my ass around because Liz taught me, I don't say that word.
[01:05:14]  I never said, actually, I've never said that word in artists in my life.
[01:05:18]  Except when I went in there, I said, slutty vegan, how you guys doing?
[01:05:21]  They said, hey, slut, 360.
[01:05:23]  And I walked right in and I started bashing my head against the counter.
[01:05:28]  So I guess he started the horny vegan as a copycat, which failed.
[01:05:32]  In fact, every single business adventure that Ross Glick, the former executive director of Beitar, has ever embarked in has failed.
[01:05:39]  One might say, taking the summation of his life that is publicly available to us, his divorce, his notoriety in the New York Post as the revenge porn kingpin of New York.
[01:05:55]  That's just quoting the post, by the way.
[01:05:57]  Just quoting the post.
[01:05:59]  His adventures with that disabled gentleman, the senator from Pennsylvania, the large sort of Shrek-like being.
[01:06:08]  Who also we didn't bring him up, but there's some relation there with Kirsten Cinema, I feel.
[01:06:17]  Yeah.
[01:06:19]  The reason, Liz, this is, it's going to sound crazy to you, and maybe I shouldn't even have made this on the podcast.
[01:06:24]  The reason I didn't even say his name right there is because I couldn't remember it.
[01:06:27]  Well, he can't either.
[01:06:29]  Yeah, there you go.
[01:06:31]  Ross Glick's relationship with him.
[01:06:34]  Ross Glick's tenure as executive director of Beitar, which ended when Beitar had to say that Ross Glick, due to negative attention he'd gotten because of his own publicly called, let me see if I can rescue this sentence grammatically.
[01:06:49]  Because of his own publicly known relation to a headline which called him Revenge Porn Kingpin of New York, had retired from the organization after only three months.
[01:07:01]  Yeah, he got canceled.
[01:07:02]  He got canceled from it, although he is still running around with the Bitar folks.
[01:07:08]  Ross Glick, we love him, even though he's a failure on every single level, even though the story of his life would be not even a tragedy, not a farce, but something less than the copy on the back of a fucking Cheerios box.
[01:07:27]  There is nothing to this man.
[01:07:30]  Nothing to this man.
[01:07:31]  The most notable thing about this man is the fact that he looks like a Goomba from the live-action Mario movie, except that that Goomba was put under a fucking tanning bed and got a very light form of skin cancer that spread all of his body, turning him so orange that one would think he was addicted to eating carrots.
[01:07:50]  He is one of the ugliest men that I've ever seen in my fucking life.
[01:07:54]  And he was truly, even just being around him, one could see that his inner being, his inner being, as diminutive and disgusting as it was, was almost, well, actually, I shouldn't say that, as diminutive as it was, was actually greatly disgusting.
[01:08:10]  So small, little, clearly not much to him, but what there was there stunk.
[01:08:17]  Anyways, executive director of Beitar.
[01:08:20]  Beitar is an organization that, I mean, we've talked about this before, but started by Jabotinsky back in the 20s.
[01:08:26]  Maybe had a little something to do with Mussolini, a terrorist group that was restarted in 2024.
[01:08:33]  Although really, it's kind of like a culmination of a bunch of like New York insane Zionist group chats here in New York City, led by a group of really insane people.
[01:08:44]  We've covered them before on the show.
[01:08:46]  Have gone around harassing and going crazy on people basically since October 7th.
[01:08:53]  I mean, I think that's the best way to put it.
[01:08:57]  Now, there has been an order by Letitia James.
[01:09:03]  I haven't heard that name in a while.
[01:09:06]  Ordering them to cease what they've been doing.
[01:09:11]  It actually kind of puts them on notice.
[01:09:14]  Although now they're saying that they're dissolving themselves voluntarily.
[01:09:18]  We'll see.
[01:09:19]  But the report, there's a report on it that says that they are a nonprofit based in Katona.
[01:09:24]  Never actually registered as a nonprofit, though, even though they solicit donations.
[01:09:30]  They also claim to be working with ICE and CBP and DHS in general in order to provide them lists of students to deport, which apparently they also provided John Fetterman.
[01:09:41]  That's his name.
[01:09:42]  I can't believe I can remember it for that long.
[01:09:44]  But I didn't sleep much last night.
[01:09:47]  They are crazy.
[01:09:48]  They're crazy.
[01:09:49]  Anybody who's been to any kind of protest here in New York City has probably seen somebody who is related to these guys.
[01:09:56]  They'll be the most insane, like Jewish Defense League style guys.
[01:09:59]  They always got a big phone in your face.
[01:10:02]  Big phone.
[01:10:03]  Big phone.
[01:10:03]  Recording everybody, trying to get pictures of everybody's face so that they can literally put it in whatever little database they've got going.
[01:10:13]  Yeah.
[01:10:14]  I mean, some of their main backers are guys very close to Eric Adams, another guy that seems to be living in Israel at this point.
[01:10:23]  They have a kind of insane and amazing social media presence.
[01:10:28]  But this sort of details a lot of the stuff that they're in trouble for.
[01:10:32]  Could you read from just this small portion of the list that is in the report?
[01:10:36]  In a private email to a Jewish activist who complained that he and his wife were being targeted by this campaign on social media, a Batar leader threatened, of course we place Jews on lists.
[01:10:47]  On February 2nd, 2025, Batar member approached a Jewish academic on a public street and followed him.
[01:10:53]  The Batar member physically forced a beeper into the academic's front pocket against his will and called him, quote, a piece of shit.
[01:11:02]  Batar has also targeted a different Jewish academic on multiple occasions, both publicly and privately.
[01:11:09]  Batar threatened the academic in direct messages that, quote, Batar followers will continue to hound you and, quote, I'll come to your fucking house.
[01:11:18]  Batar instructed its members to bring attack dogs to the February 18th, 2025 protest, posting, borrow a pitbull on social media.
[01:11:28]  In one instance of physical violence, a member of Batar's national leadership team physically struck a woman at a protest wearing a kefia.
[01:11:37]  Batar celebrated this interaction by posting a video of it on social media.
[01:11:43]  So I'm pretty sure one of the professors they're talking about there was the one from February 2nd is Norm Finkelstein.
[01:11:49]  They definitely did try to give Norm Finkelstein a pager at one point.
[01:11:55]  Obviously, that's a reference to the Israeli attack on.
[01:11:58]  That's fucking crazy.
[01:11:59]  It's, yeah, I know.
[01:12:01]  I think I don't know, and it possibly could not be, but the different Jewish academic, well, it says academic, so I don't know.
[01:12:09]  But they had a big beef with shy Davidai.
[01:12:12]  Remember him?
[01:12:14]  I do remember their crazy beef.
[01:12:16]  Yeah.
[01:12:17]  Which is really funny because they should have been on the same side.
[01:12:21]  Well, they were on the same side, but you know, different tactics.
[01:12:24]  It's a broad front.
[01:12:26]  They also, the report says they would rip off Palestinian flags from people's houses.
[01:12:29]  They say they're headquartered in Tel Aviv, where I believe Brianna Wu visited them.
[01:12:34]  That's probably the first and only the last time we'll mention that person on the podcast because, boy, they also put on a bounty.
[01:12:42]  They put a bounty out, rather, to hand a pager to Nardine Kiswani, the leader of Within Our Lifetime.
[01:12:50]  And these guys, like their number one enemy, very close with Michael Rapapore, who, of course, the Batar is, they say they're a Jabotinsky-aligned organization.
[01:13:01]  I mean, who knows what the fuck that means even, but they really are a Kahanist organization.
[01:13:07]  And Michael Rappaport, of course, on video, somehow still on TV and everything, talking about how Kahan was always right.
[01:13:14]  It's obviously a reference to Meyer Kahn, who is, it's kind of like, I guess you could say Jewish ISIS, I think would be the most, although there's now there's a lot of Jewish ISISes.
[01:13:24]  So what of many Jewish ISIS is.
[01:13:26]  And of course, former member Ross Glick.
[01:13:29]  So they have to check in and do all these reports once a year.
[01:13:33]  I think they have to pay fines every time that they violate whatever, some order in this.
[01:13:40]  They basically can't harass people anymore.
[01:13:43]  And so if you are at like any kind of protest in New York City or anywhere and a member of Batar harasses you, get documentation.
[01:13:50]  They'll have to pay a fine.
[01:13:51]  I don't know if that'll actually happen.
[01:13:54]  And they have a suspended fine of $50,000.
[01:13:57]  Again, they say that they're dissolving.
[01:13:58]  They'll probably just create Batar 2 and try to do it again.
[01:14:01]  But I think it's a good sign that these people are sort of being hounded.
[01:14:15]  So finally on to our third lawsuit, videotape.
[01:14:21]  And this is about the situation in Minneapolis, the Twin Cities, and ICE going absolutely crazy there.
[01:14:32]  Yeah, I mean, we should, I don't know, this sounds like too whatever, but it literally is an ongoing evolving situation, which makes it difficult to talk or like, you know, record a podcast on and talk about because stuff is changing really quickly.
[01:14:51]  But maybe we can like to kind of set this up, we go back a little bit to give some context.
[01:14:57]  What do you think?
[01:14:59]  So a lot of this stems, well, actually, I'm going to be honest.
[01:15:03]  I think almost 100% of this stems from people in the Trump administration seeing tweets.
[01:15:08]  And you could say that about basically anything that they are going after.
[01:15:14]  But this allegedly stems, although it's so fake, I guess.
[01:15:22]  I don't know how else to put it, but it's like, it's so, it's such bullshit that like it kind of, it's a little hard to actually make that connection clear.
[01:15:30]  But the narrative is that it stems from this huge real scandal involving massive welfare fraud in Minnesota that occurred.
[01:15:38]  Well, welfare, but also just like state funding, federal funding fraud that occurred starting in 2020, where Feeding Our Future, which was a mostly Somali organization, but also run by a white lady, stole millions in federal funding or basically had a fake NGO that got a bunch of federal funding.
[01:16:00]  Yeah.
[01:16:01]  Now, so prosecutors said this, I mean, this kind of you said, you know, you said it started in 2021.

=== Feeding Our Future Fraud (15:50) ===

[01:16:07]  It kind of, I think the feds went after them in 2022.
[01:16:13]  But prosecutors say that the group lied to the federal government.
[01:16:15]  They claimed about $250 million for meals that just like didn't get served.
[01:16:20]  It is quite large of a fraud and also kind of part of the COVID fraud story, right?
[01:16:29]  Like it's, it is, this is also the same time as all of the PPP stuff is going on.
[01:16:35]  Yes.
[01:16:36]  And the thing is, is that like during the Pany era, things got a little different during Pany, which is when Congress, so when Congress was passing a bunch of the like March 2020 COVID laws, remember they passed that whole suite of laws.
[01:16:53]  Yes.
[01:16:53]  One of the things they did was let the USDA temporarily like loosen the rules for approving funding because basically Congress was like, shit, everything is getting shut down.
[01:17:06]  We're getting all this pressure.
[01:17:07]  We have no idea what's going to happen.
[01:17:10]  And we just want to keep federal money flowing.
[01:17:13]  And yes, and the feds were the same, right?
[01:17:16]  Like the federal government was like, yes, we don't want any kind of like pause in getting money out there.
[01:17:22]  They were people were like, neoliberalism is over.
[01:17:26]  Yes.
[01:17:27]  Right.
[01:17:28]  And mind you, this is during Donny Trump, right?
[01:17:31]  Yeah.
[01:17:32]  So oversight was a bit weaker.
[01:17:34]  And the focus was just like, let's get stuff out fast.
[01:17:37]  Schools, daycares, all childcare were closed.
[01:17:41]  And so a lot of people that, especially in the case of like meals, right?
[01:17:45]  If we're, you know, talking about Feeding Our Future, people who depended on that stuff were still dependent on it, even when the child care was closed.
[01:17:54]  Right.
[01:17:55]  Anyway, because of this, a lot more federal money flowed in basically everywhere.
[01:18:01]  But Minnesota alone got hundreds of millions more than usual.
[01:18:06]  Now, Feeding the Future wasn't exactly new, but during COVID, they expanded very quickly and they like tripled the number of meal sites between 2020 and 2021, which allowed them to basically rack up more and more and more in federal reimbursements.
[01:18:29]  I mean, I did a similar thing when I was, I had those fake COVID testing centers set up all in Daley City and South City and shit.
[01:18:36]  Like, because we just fucking put, those were regular Q-tips we put up people's noses.
[01:18:40]  Sure.
[01:18:41]  And you just got those individual tanning booths, inflatable tanning booths off Amazon.
[01:18:46]  And I had the whole like, oh, are you positive or negative?
[01:18:50]  Those were HIV tests.
[01:18:52]  That's terrible.
[01:18:56]  Anyway, I mean, it was fraud.
[01:18:58]  The feds say it involved like 200 meal sites with fake meal counts.
[01:19:02]  They ended up charging like 47 people.
[01:19:05]  And the, you know, the first big trial ended just in 2024 with like a bunch of guilty verdicts.
[01:19:10]  And then Amy Bach, the white lady who was in charge, when you mentioned she was convicted in March of last year.
[01:19:16]  So this is like a, this was a story.
[01:19:18]  It was a big story.
[01:19:20]  It was also a COVID story.
[01:19:22]  It's certainly not a 2025 end of 2024 story.
[01:19:27]  Right.
[01:19:27]  Unless you're on Twitter.
[01:19:30]  I mean, I genuinely think.
[01:19:32]  So like something I noticed, because I'm obviously like, you know, I'm one of the most renowned anti-fascist academics, you know, scholar of the radical rights, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
[01:19:45]  Obviously, I've hung up my leather elbow pads and picked up the microphone.
[01:19:54]  But this is like something that happens every there's like cycles on conservative Twitter where it's all about engagement.
[01:20:05]  And there's certain things that get a lot of engagement.
[01:20:08]  One of those was making a variation of like the same sort of viral tweet about the Feeding Our Future scam.
[01:20:14]  Oh, yeah.
[01:20:15]  And there's just like a few different like things that you can just bring up that will kind of get you a bunch of retweets.
[01:20:25]  And so this become, it becomes the thing that's like sort of just a real big part, I guess, of like the right wing thinking.
[01:20:32]  I don't know.
[01:20:32]  I mean, and this was like a big scandal.
[01:20:35]  I mean, this is a scandal that I knew about.
[01:20:36]  This is the other thing.
[01:20:37]  It wasn't.
[01:20:39]  I think it was well publicized.
[01:20:41]  A lot of, it was written about for a long time.
[01:20:43]  Yes.
[01:20:44]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:20:46]  But there was renewed attention in late in 2025 from a couple of different things.
[01:20:51]  One is this sort of cycle of like it coming up again on X, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, formerly known as Twitter.
[01:20:57]  And then there was another, there was a report coming from Minnesota's Department of Health and Human Services warning of possibly billions in fraud in like Medicaid programs in Minnesota.
[01:21:08]  Yeah, CMS, the Center for Medicaid, Medicare Services, they basically came in and they said Minnesota's Medicaid program was in major noncompliance and that it had been for some time.
[01:21:18]  And it was particularly with the anti-fraud like program integrity requirements.
[01:21:24]  And so they were like, we've been warning you.
[01:21:28]  We've been talking to you about this and you haven't done fucking shit.
[01:21:32]  So if you don't do anything about it soon, we're going to maybe we could, maybe we would withhold federal matching funds unless you like implement this big plan.
[01:21:45]  So that letter comes out and you're right.
[01:21:48]  It kind of like coheres with all of this other narrative stuff, which is, which we should talk about to create a kind of a storm.
[01:22:01]  I do want to mention just real quick, this is like just a gut check thing on the, you know, Medicaid fraud stuff.
[01:22:09]  DOJ brings Medicaid and like health care fraud cases all the time all over the country.
[01:22:14]  There's it's like billions a year.
[01:22:16]  A lot are in Texas, a lot are in California and in Florida, I think Illinois too, because it's really hard to verify home care shit, personal care assistance, like even autism centers.
[01:22:31]  Like all this stuff is very easily set up.
[01:22:36]  And then, you know, you're able to get reimbursement funds pretty easily, right?
[01:22:41]  Yeah.
[01:22:42]  Now, could Waltz have intervened earlier?
[01:22:47]  Probably.
[01:22:48]  Like from what I was reading about this, Minnesota's program in particular was flagged like repeatedly, like predating Walls, right?
[01:22:58]  Tim Waltz, the governor and former VP pick, which is also a big part of the narrative story of this, right?
[01:23:06]  Yes, definitely.
[01:23:07]  Or the like right wing, why they're kind of zeroing in here.
[01:23:11]  Then, you know, as I explained, like COVID happened and all these sort of like emergency waivers, expanded services and loosened checks at the same time that basically all of this like auditing was understaffed.
[01:23:24]  Right.
[01:23:24]  It was really difficult to do in-person auditing as well because of COVID restrictions.
[01:23:29]  Yes.
[01:23:30]  So like also like COVID policy froze a huge chunk of what's normal, like eligibility churn.
[01:23:38]  So there's like a regular churn of programs that are eligible for reimbursement and then kind of like move out of that.
[01:23:47]  Right.
[01:23:48]  But it was the federal policy to freeze that to keep federal funds moving and people flush with resources during COVID.
[01:23:59]  You know, this stuff is boring, but it is like important context for this.
[01:24:03]  I mean, one gets the impression.
[01:24:05]  First of all, there's also a lot of Medicaid, Medicare scams in general.
[01:24:10]  I mean, there's also, there's, there's, it was a big bust.
[01:24:13]  I think it was in Coney.
[01:24:15]  But if you look at like, if you look at, look at how many pharmacies are in South Brooklyn, just like on certain streets.
[01:24:21]  Yeah.
[01:24:21]  There's also a ton.
[01:24:22]  There's many pharmacies.
[01:24:24]  Yeah.
[01:24:24]  New York.
[01:24:24]  I kind of think this shit's happening.
[01:24:26]  Have you looked at?
[01:24:28]  Yeah.
[01:24:29]  Yeah.
[01:24:29]  I'm, yes.
[01:24:30]  But also like specifically during the COVID moment, there were like federal requirements to keep people.
[01:24:38]  There was like a nationwide requirement to keep people continuously enrolled in order to keep funding going.
[01:24:45]  And so there was like sort of an incentive to not, you know, have that kind of like normal churn process.
[01:24:54]  And so because of that, like it's funny, Wallace has tried to explain all of this.
[01:24:59]  And it doesn't matter because it sounds like you're making excuses.
[01:25:01]  And you kind of are, but also like COVID was a very weird time for a lot of this stuff.
[01:25:08]  And as much as it expanded all of these resources and helped a lot of people out, it also then, you know, additionally made a lot easier for this stuff to happen.
[01:25:18]  I mean, this stuff all kind of like mixes into this sort of perfect storm or perfect stew for the right-wing to drink out of.
[01:25:28]  Because, you know, you've got the Somalis who people already hate because they think they fucking, and I'm not even trying to be funny here or anything.
[01:25:36]  A lot of right-wing people on Twitter hate the way that Somalis look or East Africans in general.
[01:25:43]  They like, they're like, they, you know, they do whatever.
[01:25:46]  That is a part of it.
[01:25:48]  Feed Our Future, the big scandal there, what the, what the, what we just talked about, Medicaid fraud in general.
[01:25:56]  Which, of course, is like, remember Elon's huge narrative about all this stuff?
[01:26:00]  What was he saying?
[01:26:01]  He was saying, like, like, isn't it?
[01:26:02]  He's like, there's like, you know, I don't know what he said, billions, trillions of, there's like hundreds of billions and trillions.
[01:26:08]  There's close to a trillion dollars in fraud that we got to weed out, blah, blah, blah, at the federal level.
[01:26:12]  He was mostly focused on Social Security.
[01:26:15]  Yo, yeah, that was the big thing.
[01:26:18]  And then the famous foe of Donald Trump, but also a lot of people sort of in the Trump sphere, Ilhan Omar, the Somali-born squad member who is they frequently sort of invoke her immigration status or citizenship status rather.
[01:26:34]  And I think that was a real question at the beginning of Trump's administration, probably still is to some extent over revoking her citizenship.
[01:26:42]  Yeah.
[01:26:42]  You know, that was like, that's something that's sort of been bandied about in right-wing circles.
[01:26:46]  And so this is like a perfect storm of shit.
[01:26:49]  And remember, there's like not that many Somalis in America, like at all.
[01:26:55]  Like, I think that there's like less than 200,000.
[01:26:58]  And I think there's maybe like 40 to 50, 60,000 in the Twin Cities, which is a lot.
[01:27:04]  And there was also, you know, what also is fucking a factor in this is the mayoral election that happened.
[01:27:11]  Yeah.
[01:27:12]  Because a lot of right-wing people were like, look, fucking, they got this white boy, you know, speaking, you know, speaking African there.
[01:27:21]  And they're like, it's, it's, look at what the Dems are doing.
[01:27:26]  So Trump revokes temporary protected status from people from Somalia in November.
[01:27:33]  He starts posting about it.
[01:27:35]  He calls Tim Waltz seriously.
[01:27:38]  I'm making you say it this time because I was.
[01:27:40]  Oh, he calls him seriously retarded.
[01:27:42]  That's a quote.
[01:27:44]  On Thanksgiving.
[01:27:44]  Seriously retarded governor.
[01:27:46]  Yes.
[01:27:48]  James Cummer launches an investigation on December 3rd.
[01:27:53]  It's a tough one.
[01:27:55]  And then on December 5th, Department of Homeland Security launches Operation Metro Surge.
[01:28:03]  Yeah.
[01:28:04]  So they're sending in agents and investigative units, which I think is important to mention.
[01:28:09]  All of them surging into, I guess, the Twin Cities, not just Minneapolis.
[01:28:17]  I think in Minnesota in general, and we should talk about for one second, dhs.gov/slash wow.
[01:28:24]  I had never seen this before I sent it to you.
[01:28:28]  I had never seen this.
[01:28:29]  This is fucking nuts.
[01:28:31]  Arrested, worst of the worst.
[01:28:33]  The U.S. Department of Homeland Security is highlighting the worst of the worst, criminal aliens arrested by the U.S. Immigration Customs Enforcement.
[01:28:40]  Nice.
[01:28:41]  I don't know why that was hard for me to say.
[01:28:43]  Got confused there.
[01:28:45]  Under Secretary, I always want to say Neome.
[01:28:48]  Under Secretary Gnome.
[01:28:52]  Is that it?
[01:28:53]  Gnome?
[01:28:53]  No.
[01:28:55]  Gnome.
[01:28:55]  I feel like that's just a tough one.
[01:28:58]  Curious Gnome.
[01:29:00]  No.
[01:29:02]  Under her leadership, the hardworking men and women of DHS and ICE are fulfilling whatever.
[01:29:07]  Anyway, it is a searchable database with fucking iPhone photos of guys, women, people that they have captured, abducted, arrested, and are presumably deporting.
[01:29:30]  Short of any kind of context, by the way.
[01:29:33]  So here, I'm just looking at the first one.
[01:29:34]  It says Somalia, and then it's a picture of a guy.
[01:29:39]  And it says convicted of fraud, probation violations, receiving stolen property, vehicle theft, receiving a stolen vehicle, gang affiliation, vice lord nation, arrested, Minneapolis, Minnesota, and then his name.
[01:29:52]  And then it has links to you can truth it, you can exit, or you can post it to Facebook.
[01:29:58]  This is fucking nuts.
[01:30:00]  I have never on any website seen a link to truth out something.
[01:30:05]  I mean, this is just, this is out of control.
[01:30:07]  I mean, the interesting thing here, well, there's many interesting things.
[01:30:10]  But also convicted of and where and for what and why.
[01:30:13]  Like, it's just, it's so, there's no context and there's no, there's no anything.
[01:30:21]  It's completely absurd.
[01:30:22]  And they've got people's photos on here.
[01:30:24]  It's insane.
[01:30:26]  Well, unfortunately, throughout much of the country, actually, you can get, when I was younger, when we would go to Oregon, you can get like little magazines that just have everyone's mug shot from there arrested that week.
[01:30:36]  It's a, it's common practice in some parts of the country.
[01:30:38]  It's bizarre for the federal government to be doing it.
[01:30:41]  But the reason they're doing this is because, yeah, like they'll get some guy who was like arrested for being a child molester or something or like served time in prison.
[01:30:47]  I'm not really sure.
[01:30:48]  But that's what I'm saying.
[01:30:48]  He was convicted.
[01:30:49]  Does that mean he goes to like, so he served his time or what?
[01:30:53]  Like, what are we, what are we talking about?
[01:30:55]  But the reason that they do this in the first place is so they can be like, listen, you guys who are protesting ICE coming here or you're protesting whatever, HSI, like coming over your neighborhoods or BorTak setting up like a perimeter around someone's house, you're protecting a child molester.
[01:31:12]  Now, to be clear, the vast majority of Somalis in the Twin Cities and in America probably as a whole are citizens.
[01:31:22]  Oftentimes, been here for a long time.
[01:31:25]  Younger ones having been born in America who have citizenship.
[01:31:30]  And as a result, I actually don't think that they've netted that many people from Somalia in these fucking dragnets that they're doing.
[01:31:42]  Because the fact of the matter is, is that most of these people have citizenship.
[01:31:46]  And so it's interesting.
[01:31:47]  They're like descending on the Twin Cities.
[01:31:50]  But as far as I can tell, because I've been going through these worst of the worst things, and it's a little, you can't really tell by that.
[01:31:55]  Wait, can you look at the one that I just sent?

=== DHS Dragnets in the Twin Cities (15:13) ===

[01:31:58]  This is Jesus, who's sitting in the back of the van giving two thumbs up from El Salvador.
[01:32:04]  And what was, look, arrested, disturbing the peace, urinating in public?
[01:32:10]  What are we doing here?
[01:32:11]  Exactly.
[01:32:12]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:32:14]  I mean, it's, it's, that's what's so crazy about this shit is that they're like, I don't know.
[01:32:20]  It's, it's, the other thing too, is that they're going around like in the Twin Cities of Minnesota, for example, and they're trying to like, it's very clearly targeted at people from Somalia.
[01:32:31]  But most people from Somalia have citizenship.
[01:32:34]  So what they're just doing is like these immigration raids on people from like Central and South America mostly.
[01:32:40]  And, but justifying it in this, let's say, racially charged way by being like, it's these fucking Somalis.
[01:32:51]  You know what I mean?
[01:32:52]  And like, not that it's good that they're in there, like, you know, busting heads of people from Central America, but it also gives them this excuse to go around anybody who looks Somali and to fuck with them because that is, I mean, we'll talk about this a little later, to do a Kavanaugh stop on them.
[01:33:09]  Because if they look a certain way or if they have a certain accent, it is illegal for the Department of Homeland Security to, according to the Supreme Court, to, and according to an opinion written by Supreme Court Justice Kavanaugh,
[01:33:22]  to stop somebody and ask for their papers if they speak a certain way, if they speak a certain language, really any language, or if they belong to a nationality or race that is concentrated in a particular place that has what the Department of Homeland Security, by its own metrics, say is a high concentration of people who are undocumented.
[01:33:46]  And it's just, it's just, I mean, but it's also like, we know that's not, it's not, they're not really there to get undocumented immigrants, right?
[01:33:54]  I mean, they do want to do that, but they're there to essentially flex the might of the federal government on these libtard towns.
[01:34:02]  That is, I think, uncontroversial, even if you're a right-wing person.
[01:34:06]  That is what is happening here.
[01:34:09]  A lot of this really kind of blew up after a December 26th video was put out by a guy named Nick Shirley.
[01:34:19]  Tough name.
[01:34:20]  Shirley, you can't be serious.
[01:34:21]  I am serious.
[01:34:23]  And don't call me Shirley.
[01:34:24]  Yeah.
[01:34:25]  Tough, it's he's one of those guys.
[01:34:27]  I first encountered Nick Shirley when he was doing a like a hype video for Seacot in El Salvador.
[01:34:36]  Like he did a bunch of these guys, Tyler Oliviera, whatever, a bunch of these sort of just, I don't know, open-mouth gape YouTube thumbnail guys did that.
[01:34:49]  They like went down there and sort of were toured around by Bukele's, Bukele's gunman and like you were allowed to just video prisoners sort of like lined up, shaved head in a row in El Salvador.
[01:35:00]  And this happened, this was before the Trump deportations of Venezuelans there.
[01:35:07]  So he does a like 45 minute video.
[01:35:09]  I watched it when it came out of him along with just some guy, I believe named Dave.
[01:35:16]  I'm not sure he gives a lot of other information about Dave and that, around to a bunch of Somali-run daycare centers that he alleges are doing over $100 million in fraud.
[01:35:28]  He's apparently pointed there by a member of the GOP House caucus in Minnesota who's running for governor.
[01:35:33]  This causes a sort of cascade effect that culminates, well, it doesn't culminate, but it includes Tim Waltz announcing on January 5th that he is not running for reelection as governor in the state of Minnesota, which is pretty big.
[01:35:51]  The DHS continues to swarm in these sort of high-profile raids that we've seen like in Chicago and elsewhere, you know, this sort of flashy modern warfare, Call of Duty, whatever cutscene style raids that see Renee Good get shot, which I'm sure everybody here is familiar with.
[01:36:08]  That happened there.
[01:36:09]  All arms of the government immediately declare her a domestic terrorist.
[01:36:12]  The agent who shot her calls her a fucking bitch immediately after he shoots her four times.
[01:36:17]  And now the government is, or the DOJJ rather, is investigating her wife for what?
[01:36:27]  I don't know, but it caused, I think, half a dozen prosecutors to leave the DOJ over it.
[01:36:32]  I mean, there's a ton of protests that I think people are aware of.
[01:36:37]  A ton of protests have propped up people following ICE vehicles Around town, being observers, filming, just trying to get as much, I don't know, surveillance.
[01:36:54]  I don't even know what to, just trying to observe as peacefully as possible.
[01:36:59]  It's funny because this story moves from these sort of like, you know, violations and laws or whatever into now the right trying to kind of create a Floyd story a little bit where they're like, oh, now the left, like a kind of Portland-esque, the Twin Cities are out of fucking control.
[01:37:26]  And we need the federal government to come in and like step on all these social justice warriors who are, you know, harassing our good federal officers.
[01:37:39]  You know, it's worth noting that I think a lot of people are, if they're unable to physically stop the ICE agents here, you know, they at least alert people or they take video of it because the reality is, is when people get taken by ICE, a lot of times they kind of disappear into the system.
[01:37:57]  I mean, it's the 20th of January, so it's 20 days into the new year.
[01:38:01]  As of now, six people, including I think one person taken from Minnesota, have died in ICE custody this year.
[01:38:08]  So in the past 20 days, I think the deaths are at a 20-year high right now.
[01:38:16]  And a lot of times people are taking, sometimes people, what DHS has been doing, if people can't be deported to the country that they came here from or like repatriated or whatever, they do repatriation flights.
[01:38:29]  They've been sending people to fucking like Africa and shit.
[01:38:33]  And like people not from Africa.
[01:38:35]  You know, there was, you know, it's, it's, it's, people will just go far flung.
[01:38:41]  I mean, they're sending people to Seacott for Christ's sake.
[01:38:44]  And so a lot of times, if you get taken, if you're some guy that gets taken, you like don't have the same rights as you would have if you're like arrested under normal circumstances.
[01:38:52]  Famously, the Trump White House says like, no, you don't get due process for this shit.
[01:38:57]  We're not doing due process here.
[01:38:58]  And so you might not get a phone call.
[01:39:01]  And so your family might not know where you end up.
[01:39:04]  It's, it's, so yeah, it's, it's, I think it's pretty important that people are at least documenting that people are getting taken or what their names are.
[01:39:11]  Yeah, absolutely.
[01:39:12]  And also, I mean, ICE is like just doing sweeps where, you know, it came out that they get their incentives for them to make arrests, not deportations.
[01:39:23]  And a lot of times that includes anyone that is like legally here or even a U.S. citizen.
[01:39:31]  And that's happened over and over again.
[01:39:33]  And rather than like, they're not interested in any kind of documentation, they don't want to even look at it.
[01:39:38]  They just want to do these big sweeps to get their numbers up.
[01:39:43]  And then people maybe, you know, after a few days or a few hours or whatever it is, get released and have to deal with that, you know, huge ordeal.
[01:39:52]  Yeah.
[01:39:52]  And I mean, I think they spell it out pretty clear.
[01:39:54]  Like Stephen Miller talks about this a lot.
[01:39:56]  And Miller is sort of minister, not without portfolio, but minister with many portfolio in Trump government.
[01:40:04]  Yeah.
[01:40:05]  But he's come out pretty hard as like painting anybody who protests against this as essentially a domestic terrorist.
[01:40:13]  Yeah, he came out and said there's an assert, an insurgency against the federal government.
[01:40:18]  They are describing the federal government as an occupying force.
[01:40:21]  Just think about that for a second.
[01:40:24]  It's so funny.
[01:40:25]  What happened to Don't Tread on Me?
[01:40:27]  Yeah, I mean, that's the thing.
[01:40:28]  It's like, they actually don't give a fuck about that.
[01:40:30]  And it's almost like it's not even worth almost bringing up anymore because they're like, we don't fuck with that.
[01:40:36]  Like you, you, we are going to tread on you.
[01:40:38]  And that's, that's how it's going to be.
[01:40:40]  It is, it's interesting though, because they're definitely trying to do or to provoke maybe like a 2020 jazz moment or whatever.
[01:40:52]  The protests seem a lot broader than that.
[01:40:55]  And it seems like this protest both about what they actually, the, they're doing the sweeps against immigrants, but also like on a certain other level, there's thousands of crazy thugs descending on towns, throwing their weight around in this way, fucking with people in this way to provoke.
[01:41:20]  And people are naturally pretty provoked by that.
[01:41:23]  Like, it's not just like they're coming in here.
[01:41:25]  We don't want them doing immigration raids.
[01:41:27]  That's true on one level, but on another level, like they're coming in here to try to fuck with people who live in this city because they view this city as enemy territory.
[01:41:36]  I mean, that's been a big thing on the right for a while is that they view Democrat run or like even Democrat coded metropolitan areas as enemy territory and the people that live there as the enemy.
[01:41:51]  And so like that kind of can't be separated from this is that like if a bunch of ICE agents, as they are want to do, run a car off the road or ram a random person in their car or shoot a woman in their head, a lot of right-wing people will cheer that.
[01:42:10]  I mean, that's what happened when Renee Good got shot in the head.
[01:42:12]  A lot of right-wing people were like, yeah, this is fucking great.
[01:42:15]  Fuck this Libtard.
[01:42:17]  Like, I'm glad that she died because even if she hadn't been protesting there, she is an enemy because she's in enemy territory.
[01:42:25]  Yeah.
[01:42:25]  And I mean, you know, I think it goes without saying, but I'll just, you know, also these ICE guys, you know, they're masked.
[01:42:33]  They're running around pointing guns at people.
[01:42:35]  They're setting up traffic stops.
[01:42:38]  They're disturbing the flow of this city and making their presence known, like you said, intentionally to provoke.
[01:42:44]  And it's really clear.
[01:42:47]  Maybe as we're going through this, you know, we can kind of get into it a little bit more, but it's really clear that this is a strategy by the federal government to go from city to city to city and see how they can push the boundaries and see how far they can take things before they get potentially stopped and have to move on.
[01:43:14]  So there's a lawsuit filed January 12th in federal court in Minnesota.
[01:43:19]  Attorney General Keith Ellison.
[01:43:21]  Remember him?
[01:43:21]  I forgot about him.
[01:43:22]  Yeah.
[01:43:23]  Keith Ellison in the cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul versus basically all the top officials and agencies inside DHS, including Christy Noam.
[01:43:34]  I did a total like double take on that to make sure I wasn't saying Kirsty, Christy?
[01:43:38]  Kirsten Noam.
[01:43:41]  So they came out, they said all the feds are arguing that this is about fighting fraud, but that that's mostly a pretext to flood the Twin Cities with armed mass agents who are running aggressive raids and stops that are fundamentally illegal and unconstitutional.
[01:43:57]  So they're like, the feds are using all these militarized tactics.
[01:44:01]  They're acting overly aggressive.
[01:44:03]  They're stopping people in schools and hospitals, which is unusual or outside of the kind of usual bounds.
[01:44:11]  They use like insane, mad racial profiling to go after anybody who they say looks Somali or looks Latino, including a bunch of U.S. citizens who have been arrested and detained anyway.
[01:44:25]  And I do want to note, and I want to just drive this home.
[01:44:28]  This was basically legalized in a, well, semi-legalized in a September ruling by the Supreme Court.
[01:44:36]  Again, the Kavanaugh stops with Justice Kavanaugh basically saying, I'd read this.
[01:44:43]  This is what I understood from this.
[01:44:44]  This seems to be what DHS agents are doing.
[01:44:47]  You could basically be stopped under suspicion of being an illegal immigrant if you're speaking Spanish at a bus stop, for instance.
[01:44:56]  Like that would be permissible under this.
[01:44:59]  Now, there was a lot of to do about racial profiling.
[01:45:05]  I remember like 20 years ago, I feel it was a big topic, you know, racial profile, traffic stop, excuse me, Sheriff Joe Arpeo, et cetera, et cetera, CBP doing the shit in the South and Southwest.
[01:45:17]  Obviously, it's almost separate from local PDs doing it.
[01:45:22]  It is illegal, but this like semi-legalizes it, or like the language is so sort of broad that it essentially legalizes it.
[01:45:31]  So keep this in mind for the government targeting people from Somalia, even though by these metrics in the Kavanaugh stops, because of the sort of minuscule amount of actual illegal immigrants from Somalia, that it would still not technically qualify.
[01:45:45]  So it's just straight, you know, ungutsied up racial profiling.
[01:45:53]  So there's tons of claims of excessive force, including like chokeholds, pepper spray, pointing guns at people.
[01:46:00]  I mean, you know, they don't have specifics in the lawsuits.
[01:46:05]  I think everyone has seen the videos.
[01:46:07]  There's so many new videos every day of all those things and plenty more, including just like very weird harassment.
[01:46:18]  And the way these guys like fucking talk back to people is completely crazy.
[01:46:23]  The way they get in people's faces for like being these like masked vigilantes.
[01:46:31]  It's the people that are staffing ICE are fucking nuts.
[01:46:36]  Yeah.
[01:46:37]  I mean, you know, we've, we've talked before about how I think even on the episode about my being on that DHS list, I think this is when we talked about it because I feel like we talked about HSI there.
[01:46:49]  They're the lowest standards of any federal law enforcement.
[01:46:52]  There's been a bunch of articles that have come out in the past few months or over the past year about how they've lowered their standards even further, that basically anybody with a pulse can get in.
[01:47:03]  They've shortened the training.
[01:47:04]  The like journalists from Democracy Now who got the drama ICE and then they're like, no, you didn't.
[01:47:08]  She's like, literally, here's the letter of you accepting me.

=== Lowest Standards Debated (02:15) ===

[01:47:11]  Yes.
[01:47:12]  I was wondering the other day.
[01:47:13]  I was like, I wonder if you could do it.
[01:47:15]  I actually was wondering that last year.
[01:47:17]  I think that your name would get flagged, but I do think I was wondering.
[01:47:21]  I don't know.
[01:47:21]  I'm like, can they even flag?
[01:47:23]  You know, it's, and it's crazy because they're doing all this shit.
[01:47:27]  The DHS Twitter account, just like, it's like clearly some guy who's like, wants to be whatever, DM'd by the Bronze Age pervert or whatever, or one of the, actually not even like a secondary or tertiary member of that sphere of right-wing people who just post these sort of like wink-wink kind of like right-wing memes.
[01:47:51]  Not a people call it a Groyper, but it's actually, I think it's a little distinct from Groyperism.
[01:47:56]  Although it ends basically.
[01:47:58]  No, I think it reads older than groper's.
[01:48:00]  Yeah, yeah, definitely.
[01:48:02]  It's like a guy who's more millennial coded than it is.
[01:48:05]  Groyper's don't give a fuck about like Tumblr aesthetics.
[01:48:09]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:48:10]  It's like a guy, who's that fucking Italian or whatever model that they all like?
[01:48:14]  I have no idea.
[01:48:14]  Geo Scotty.
[01:48:16]  Yeah, Geo Scotty.
[01:48:17]  It's like a guy that like really fucks with like Geo Scotty memes or whatever.
[01:48:22]  Although I'm not really sure how this stuff appeals to regular people, but I guess that doesn't, that doesn't really.
[01:48:25]  But they don't like her anymore because she like turned 18.
[01:48:29]  Oh, yeah.
[01:48:30]  Yeah.
[01:48:30]  They tend not to enjoy that kind of stuff.
[01:48:33]  But the people working for ICE are fucking morons.
[01:48:35]  I mean, this is, I think, widely available.
[01:48:39]  There is a huge amount of evidence that these people are just fucking stupid and clearly have very little training.
[01:48:46]  They're not familiar with their own policies.
[01:48:49]  They're histrionic.
[01:48:52]  They seek to escalate basically every situation they're in.
[01:48:55]  And one thing that I'm just like astounded that this is fine by A, the mass stuff, and then B, the constant car ramming attacks that they do to pull people over.
[01:49:04]  Because I think maybe they can't actually, they don't have sirens on their cars.
[01:49:07]  They're all just driving around fucking Nissan Altimas.
[01:49:10]  But they ride around in unmarked cars, ramming into people and they just arresting anybody.
[01:49:16]  Because again, they've got these quotas.
[01:49:17]  And so they seek to provoke and then arrest anybody who they do provoke.
[01:49:21]  Or even if they don't provoke them, they'll arrest you anyways.

=== Border Patrol's Histrionic Tactics (15:20) ===

[01:49:26]  So the January 12th lawsuit references the case of a guy named Mubashir Hussain.
[01:49:33]  So it doesn't, it's briefly in a paragraph.
[01:49:37]  But I was actually reading prior to us adding this case to this episode, a different lawsuit, an ACLU lawsuit filed against the DHS accusing them of racially profiling that was filed three days later on on January 15th.
[01:49:52]  And Mubashir Hussain is one of the plaintiffs.
[01:49:54]  And this is what is laid out in the suit.
[01:49:56]  And I think it's just worth reading this section in full to kind of get an idea of what people are going through here.
[01:50:01]  On December 10th, 2025, plaintiff Mubashir Khalif Hussain left his second floor office to get lunch at a restaurant on the first floor.
[01:50:10]  He stopped on the street to speak with a passerby about ICE activity earlier in the day.
[01:50:16]  An unmarked SUV drove up and two federal agents wearing ski masks exited.
[01:50:22]  One walked quickly toward Mr. Hussain, who did not say anything to him.
[01:50:27]  Mr. Hussain turned to walk away, hoping to be left alone, at which point the federal agent grabbed him and pushed him into a restaurant.
[01:50:35]  A second agent entered, and as a crowd gathered, the two dragged Mr. Hussain out of the restaurant and put him into a headlock on the ground.
[01:50:43]  Mr. Hussain repeatedly informed the officers he was a U.S. citizen and repeatedly asked the agents to let him get his coat on with his phone so he could show them a picture of his passport card.
[01:50:54]  The agents refused to let him back into the building to retrieve his driver's license or his phone and put him in the back of an unmarked car.
[01:51:02]  They repeatedly told Mr. Hussain that they needed to scan his face.
[01:51:06]  Eventually, an agent got Mr. Hussain's coat, but when Mr. Hussain asked to be able to show the photo of his passport card, the agents refused.
[01:51:14]  Mr. Hussain's supervisor brought a copy of Mr. Hussain's passport card and showed it to the agents, but the agents ignored him.
[01:51:23]  The agents drove Mr. Hussain handcuffed to a second location a few blocks away, where they again insisted on scanning Mr. Hussain's face and told him that if he did not let them scan his face, they were going to quote take him in.
[01:51:37]  After about 30 minutes at this second location, the agents drove Mr. Hussain to the ICE field office at Fort Snelling.
[01:51:45]  The officers did not indicate that they had a warrant for Mr. Hussain.
[01:51:48]  They ignored both his statements and his documentary proof that he is a U.S. citizen.
[01:51:54]  At no point did the officers ask Mr. Hussain about his ties to the community.
[01:52:00]  So eventually, they just, without, I think, even saying anything, they eventually just kick him out of the office and tell him to walk back to work, which is seven miles away.
[01:52:09]  And like, this stuff is happening every day.
[01:52:13]  I mean, we just, you and I were just talking about this.
[01:52:15]  I mean, there was a press conference of police chiefs in the Twin Cities who were saying, I mean, that multiple officers, cops had been stopped off duty and one had guns pointed at her and were almost taken in.
[01:52:30]  I mean, that is a crazy, yes.
[01:52:35]  You can see where that situation goes and it's difficult.
[01:52:39]  I mean, it gets crazier and crazier.
[01:52:42]  So the face scanning is something that I've noticed a lot.
[01:52:45]  I've seen videos of them doing it and I've read about it reported a lot of stuff.
[01:52:48]  And it's this thing I think called mobile fortify.
[01:52:52]  So what they actually do is they'll like walk up to people and scan their face with their phone.
[01:52:56]  It has an app on it, mobile fortify.
[01:52:59]  And I think this is kind of maybe wondering why this is that maybe they had their phones out for Renee Good because they scan people even if they don't think that they're undocumented.
[01:53:08]  They'll just do it because they have giant databases with images that they get to keep for 20 years.
[01:53:14]  Great.
[01:53:15]  So it reminds me of the HIDE program, which is the handheld interagency identity detection equipment.
[01:53:21]  These are devices that were used by the U.S. military in Afghanistan, which scanned random people and checked data against the automated biometrics identification system, which the Pentagon stored.
[01:53:31]  So basically, it was like a face scanning biometric technology that they used to like scan Afghanis to be like, this is who you are.
[01:53:38]  If we don't know who you are, we do now.
[01:53:40]  We have your face stored in here.
[01:53:42]  So 404 media reports that ICE is now also using technology called Elite, which is enhanced leads, identification, and targeting.
[01:53:50]  This is another app which shows ICE agents maps that have pinpoints in them, each connected to a person that uses combined U.S. government information across various agencies to track if they'll be there and assigns it a percentage-based rating.
[01:54:04]  So this, they say, is only for undocumented people.
[01:54:08]  I have a feeling, though, that this technology, maybe, could be used on everybody.
[01:54:14]  Well, it seems like they're trying to do that.
[01:54:16]  They're just widening their scope to be, you know, now we move on to getting everybody.
[01:54:22]  You will be shocked to learn that 404 media also reports that this was developed by Palantir, which also developed Immigration OS, which is, I think, talked about on the show before.
[01:54:34]  So, I mean, it goes without saying, but none of this really started in Minneapolis.
[01:54:39]  Obviously, it's been happening at a lot of other cities and towns all over the country.
[01:54:45]  I think the New York Times had a story on this three-day operation out in Kern County in California.
[01:54:52]  This was in early January 2025.
[01:54:55]  So right at the end of the Biden admin.
[01:54:57]  It was before Trump came in office.
[01:54:59]  But it now, when you read it, it looks like a rehearsal, basically.
[01:55:02]  It was called Operation Return to Sender.
[01:55:07]  And they deliberately went super aggressive on what they call interior enforcement in farm county towns like Bakersfield in this area of California.
[01:55:19]  And it was designed around street stops and sudden arrests and like a heavy, heavy presence rather than the like slower targeted style that I think a lot of people might have or may like associate with ICE in the past, right?
[01:55:35]  So this is like a totally different directive.
[01:55:39]  And they often, oftentimes they wouldn't even like the agents wouldn't identify themselves.
[01:55:44]  Again, break in how things had been done in the past.
[01:55:47]  So this was sold as a big success.
[01:55:49]  They say they arrested like 78 undocumented immigrants in these like three days, including what they call people with criminal histories.
[01:55:58]  Don't know what that means.
[01:56:01]  This all happened at the same time as the California wildfire.
[01:56:04]  So it like didn't really get and during Biden.
[01:56:07]  So it didn't really like get the kind of attention that I think it would clearly now.
[01:56:14]  A name that people may recognize, Gregory Bovino, was he was a Border Patrol commander who led these raids.
[01:56:23]  And Bovino sold the Kern raid as proof that like ICE really needed to ramp up this thing they call internal enforcement, which is the logic that the agency uses to basically extend Border Patrol style work into places that are very, very, very far away from the border.
[01:56:44]  And that's something that the Minneapolis suit noted, where they were like, we're not a border town.
[01:56:53]  Why are you coming in here and working us with these tactics that are supposed to be under the purview of border control, basically?
[01:57:04]  Yeah, I mean, it's to, you know, to put a finer point on it, you know, CBP and ICE are not the same agency.
[01:57:11]  No, not at all.
[01:57:13]  So Bovino got promoted into a pretty high-profile leadership role when Trump ramped up all the raids in LA last summer.
[01:57:20]  And he's actually now leading the surge in Minnesota.
[01:57:26]  This is a guy who loves attention, which is crazy if your name is Bovino, which I want to, it just is, it's a bongingo situation for me.
[01:57:36]  It is a, I would say it's even worse than bongingo.
[01:57:40]  Greg Bovino, I mean, he is, again, a Pinchonian character, unfortunately.
[01:57:45]  It's, he really is just, I mean, you got to say, it's maybe the reason Trump likes him because he's straight out of central casting for his role.
[01:57:52]  So Greg Bovino, yes, loves attention.
[01:57:55]  He's about five foot four, oftentimes the only unmasked guy surrounded by like his Praetorian guard of other short Border Patrol agents to make him look, I mean, his vantage points, I guess, to make him look relatively tall.
[01:58:12]  His father went to jail.
[01:58:14]  I don't know if he's still in jail, but went to jail for killing a woman in a drunk driving crash.
[01:58:19]  According to a Chicago Sun-Times article I read, he was called by a fellow agent the Liberace of the Border Patrol.
[01:58:26]  And he is quite active on social media platforms in a way that he was not allowed to be before because he got constantly upbraided for his replies on there.
[01:58:37]  So if anyone has ever like quote tweet, some like random small Twitter account will quote tweet a picture of him being like, this guy sucks.
[01:58:43]  He'll be like, what are you going to do about it?
[01:58:46]  You know, he is very clearly a piece of shit.
[01:58:50]  He wears this like custom old Border Patrol great coat and loves to have his picture taken in it.
[01:58:56]  I mean, I'm sure you guys have seen this very dramatic.
[01:58:59]  Maybe we'll even use one for the, well, maybe we'll use picture cinema.
[01:59:02]  I don't know for the for the episode image.
[01:59:04]  But yeah, he is a real piece of work.
[01:59:09]  So the ACLU actually sued on behalf of United Farm Workers for, you know, for this raid in Kern County, and they alleged racial profiling, coercion.
[01:59:22]  It's really similar to the suit in the Twin Cities, actually.
[01:59:26]  And they were able to get a preliminary injunction last April that stopped what Border Patrol could do in Kern County.
[01:59:36]  Now, DHS immediately appealed the ruling, but Border Patrol is like, we're not doing operations in there.
[01:59:42]  You know, we haven't been in there anytime since.
[01:59:46]  Of course, ICE, not bound by the injunction, stayed active in the region, but it's really similar, eerily similar to the situation in Minnesota.
[01:59:57]  And that's kind of why I, you know, it feels like they're ramping up and using these different cities to sort of test their own boundaries.
[02:00:11]  So back to Minnesota and the lawsuit.
[02:00:16]  The district court agreed with the suit and they filed a preliminary injunction on the 16th.
[02:00:21]  So just a few days ago.
[02:00:23]  And it's not a final verdict, but they're trying to shut things down while the lawsuit continues going.
[02:00:28]  Yeah.
[02:00:29]  Now, interestingly, the feds didn't seem to put up that much of a fight.
[02:00:33]  Yeah, I kind of wonder why.
[02:00:35]  Well, I think it has to do with what I'm talking about, where, well, let's break this down.
[02:00:41]  So they relied on like one declaration from David Easterwood, who's the ERO St. Paul Field Office Director.
[02:00:51]  And the judge was like, You weren't there personally.
[02:00:54]  You were like relying on all these compiled summaries and internal info.
[02:00:58]  And so they're like, I can't give what you say that much weight.
[02:01:02]  And the judge also points out that DHS could have submitted a ton of agent declarations under seal or using like pseudonyms or protective orders or whatever, but literally they didn't.
[02:01:14]  So they're really like not fighting it.
[02:01:18]  Now, her judgment should theoretically put a stop to agents retaliating against people who are peacefully protesting or observing stopping agents from arresting observers or protesters without probable cause.
[02:01:34]  And this is kind of like the big one.
[02:01:36]  It should put a limit to vehicle stops.
[02:01:38]  It says that agents can't stop cars unless they have a reasonable suspicion that the driver or the passengers are forcibly obstructing ICE vehicles, like you know, some people have been doing, including some named in the suit, but it's still like not enough to qualify for a stop, basically.
[02:01:59]  Yeah, like you can, if you're if you can follow ICE vehicles, but you're not allowed to forcibly obstruct them, right?
[02:02:05]  And they can't stop you for just following them now.
[02:02:08]  But, you know, I've read a lot of the retaliation that they're doing.
[02:02:11]  I mean, it's interesting.
[02:02:12]  Like it seems like a certain amount of ICE agents have stopped doing their so-called immigration enforcement and have started basically doing protester enforcement, which I think is the real purpose of a lot of this stuff, anyways.
[02:02:22]  Yes.
[02:02:24]  Is to kind of go after people protesting or is to make people protest and then go after them.
[02:02:30]  Perhaps it's shifted and changed as the landscape has.
[02:02:34]  Now, DHS is most likely going to appeal this to the Eighth Circuit to get an injunction stay.
[02:02:41]  The district court refused.
[02:02:43]  And if the district court refuses that stay, then DHS can try it at the Supreme Court on an emergency basis.
[02:02:54]  So, especially since this is like about ongoing federal operations, it seems like the Supreme Court would take the case.
[02:03:02]  And my point about the feds not finding this is that there's this kind of like legal feedback loop that is building, I think, where you've got these, you know, you've got this like hardline commander running these test operations that the agency brands as wins.
[02:03:16]  And then you've got these litigation challenges where the judge draws a limit and then the feds appeal.
[02:03:21]  And then in the meantime, they just move on to a different jurisdiction.
[02:03:25]  And so the same operation models spread to other cities way faster than lawsuits can actually keep up.
[02:03:33]  And each new city provides new context or potential tweaks in legal arguments for facing new legal fights rather than the feds responding and correcting like policy internally, which is just not happening.
[02:03:49]  No, not at all.
[02:03:50]  And I do think that the Dems are kind of look, they are operating as if that might happen, like correcting policy internally and not seeing the bigger picture here of how they're running these operations, you know.
[02:04:05]  And I think some of the Dem response is the fact that they're Dems.
[02:04:09]  It's also the fact that they have no power right now.
[02:04:12]  There's not much they can do, especially specifically, I'm talking about at the federal level.
[02:04:16]  And so there is this like attitude of we got to wait until the midterms, which is kind of true.
[02:04:24]  That's what like lose, that's the problem with losing, you know?
[02:04:28]  Like, they don't have a lot of power.
[02:04:30]  It's, it's, I don't even know how one gets out of this after if this ends at any point, um, because ICE has been really utterly turned into a politicized federal police force.

=== ICE's Political Radicalization (06:15) ===

[02:04:47]  Yes.
[02:04:47]  Explicitly in some ways turned into that with the express purpose of doing that.
[02:04:53]  That is also tasked with some amount of immigration enforcement.
[02:04:59]  And, you know, Bortak seems to be a federal special forces force that is deployed.
[02:05:07]  I mean, it's just like these are sort of parallel political police that the or federal political police that the Trump administration is running.
[02:05:18]  And, you know, there has been some concern from Democrats on this.
[02:05:22]  I think that'll probably grow.
[02:05:24]  But I think that it's difficult to see if anyone's really reckoned with that.
[02:05:28]  I mean, every institution is political in this country, obviously.
[02:05:35]  But we haven't seen stuff this targeted this specifically in a while at this scale in a while.
[02:05:43]  And I'm kind of curious to see how that's going to go.
[02:05:45]  I mean, there's a real fight brewing in Minnesota as well between the feds and various Minnesota politicians.
[02:05:52]  Well, the other thing, just real quick about that, is that, you know, when you look at the deportation numbers compared to past administrations, I'd say the Trump administration is failing by their own goals, right?
[02:06:08]  Like by what they have set out to do.
[02:06:12]  And it makes you question a lot of the like theater makes it sound cheap, but like I'm thinking about the website and I'm thinking about all the kind of PR shit that they do and all the social media work they do and all of the press conferences and the intentional provoking that is clearly a directive and that ICE is really focused in these raids less on getting immigrants,
[02:06:41]  sure, making quotas for their own purposes and making content, another one of their internal directives, by the way, which is sick to think about.
[02:06:54]  And it just sort of like, you know, it changes the shape of what you start to think of as the purpose of this force, which is kind of what you're getting at, which also makes me extremely frustrated with Democratic leadership who are continually trying to treat this as just, you know,
[02:07:20]  an agency that needs some like helpful tweaks on the inside, just needs to be like reined in a little bit when it's clearly like there's a much bigger strategy here.
[02:07:32]  And I think that's something that I always think about that we, I think, clocked very early when we were going to those Trump rallies during the election is that like the way that he had been talking post, particularly post assassination attempt, but like all since January 6th was that this is about revenge.
[02:07:56]  Yeah.
[02:07:56]  Yeah.
[02:07:57]  You know, and this was like every time, I mean, remember fucking Madison Square, the way that everyone was talking?
[02:08:03]  Yes.
[02:08:04]  It wasn't about like, we need to change, you know, direction of the country and policy.
[02:08:08]  I mean, you know, you have all that stuff too.
[02:08:11]  But like the thirst for going after enemies, whatever that, you know, category, whatever is contained in that category, was absolutely palpable, not just from the speakers, by the way, but from all the fucking assholes at Madison Square too.
[02:08:29]  Yeah.
[02:08:30]  And, you know, one can't help but kind of think that, God, I just, I feel like Newsom's an inevitability at this point.
[02:08:38]  I mean, there's so much longer episodes on.
[02:08:42]  He's clearly throwing his hat in the ring.
[02:08:46]  His, his, his yarmulke, actually, Liz originally said, but then we, we edited it.
[02:08:52]  But, but it is, you know, I think that I wonder if this is sort of going to beget a cycle of revenge where whoever sort of will like the main main thing that candidates will be vying for in the 2028 or 2027, I guess, Democratic primary will be to see who, I don't know what year, whatever.
[02:09:14]  I'm fucking, listen, who knows?
[02:09:16]  It's been a long time.
[02:09:16]  Time is a construct.
[02:09:18]  Well, whoever promises the harshest treatment for Trump administration officials.
[02:09:24]  But I think it's so funny because like Normie Libs are so radicalized.
[02:09:30]  Yeah.
[02:09:30]  Like, what's the, what's her name?
[02:09:32]  The, um, I always reference her, the like Normie Lib wine mom podcaster content.
[02:09:38]  Oh, Jennifer Welch.
[02:09:40]  Yeah.
[02:09:40]  Jennifer Welch, something Welch.
[02:09:42]  She's a perfect example.
[02:09:44]  That woman would have been peacefully pussyhatting Trump one.
[02:09:51]  Yeah.
[02:09:52]  And then kind of like letting it go after she'd be clapping for our frontline defenders or whatever, you know, during COVID.
[02:10:03]  And then, you know, happily voting for Biden 2020, whatever it was now, right?
[02:10:09]  That woman cannot stop talking about like, we need troikas.
[02:10:13]  We need fucking accountability.
[02:10:18]  And when they say that, they don't mean they want fucking heads to roll because of this shit.
[02:10:24]  And it's, it's really interesting to see the like radically, radicalization of like the norm you live that is sounding a lot more like a lot of left-wingers did and Trump won than I think how we've seen ever before.
[02:10:42]  And social media does have a role to play in that as well.
[02:10:45]  Yeah.
[02:10:46]  I mean, I don't think that there, it's what is tough is that I don't think that the actual left, and I don't, I speak very broadly there, but like the farther left really actually is playing that big a role in this.

=== Radicalized Liberals vs. Trump Administration (04:36) ===

[02:11:03]  It's sort of, it is interesting.
[02:11:05]  It's like a, it's a fight between kind of like the radicalized liberal, which many on the left secretly are too, but the radicalized liberal and like the Trump administration.
[02:11:15]  Yeah.
[02:11:16]  And, you know, it's, I can, I see people getting very excited.
[02:11:20]  And I, you know, obviously, listen, I'm excited when any action happens anywhere.
[02:11:25]  But I'm not sure, like, I would caution people against fantasizing too much and just sort of keep grounded in, you know, because a liberal might be radicalized, but there's still a radicalized liberal, you know?
[02:11:42]  And you know, it's, it's, it's, I don't know.
[02:11:47]  I don't really know where I'm going with that.
[02:11:49]  But I felt a little bit bleak about political prospects over the past year.
[02:11:56]  And certainly nothing has made me feel less bleak.
[02:12:00]  I do think, though, that the possibility of civil war, my civil warometer has has twitched a little bit.
[02:12:06]  It's gone up slightly.
[02:12:08]  I don't know what I was at last time, but I think I'm about 16% now chance of civil war in the next year.
[02:12:15]  What would a civil war even look like?
[02:12:16]  What are you talking about?
[02:12:17]  It would look like localized clashes between the federal government and various state or local level organizations or police or national guard forces.
[02:12:33]  Yeah.
[02:12:34]  Now, police is tough, though, because I think a lot of the police, you know, that's what I mean.
[02:12:38]  Like, what state?
[02:12:39]  Yeah.
[02:12:40]  Yeah.
[02:12:41]  The National Guard's a kind of interesting one.
[02:12:43]  But even that is like not really Civil War level.
[02:12:46]  I don't know.
[02:12:49]  I mean, I think a civil war now in America will look a lot like America's Wars Abroad with like various sort of small-scale, very intense operations and drone strikes, of course.
[02:13:01]  But I don't think that's really on the table.
[02:13:03]  I think it'll just be like ultra-militarized, large-scale law enforcement actions, possibly with the federal troops called in or National Guard troops.
[02:13:14]  I mean, that was a big thing in with the sort of warring court cases over the deployments of the National Guard earlier this year.
[02:13:22]  Is the, they were really, the big thing was like deploying National Guard from red states into blue states.
[02:13:27]  That was like a pretty concerted effort to do that.
[02:13:30]  But yeah, I don't think it would be like the Civil War, like the classic one, Civil War.
[02:13:37]  But yeah, I mean, one thing that I think we should mention before we wrap up here is that Trump has really, really, really wanted to push the Insurrection Act button since his first term.
[02:13:46]  I know.
[02:13:47]  He's so jones in for it.
[02:13:48]  He tacoed on it, though.
[02:13:50]  I know, but Liz, today is the one-year anniversary of Trump's first second term.
[02:13:54]  I know, but he tacoed already.
[02:13:56]  I think he started walking it back.
[02:13:59]  His hand is shaking.
[02:14:04]  They have now announced an investigation into five Minnesota politicians, including Jacob Frey and Tim Waltz.
[02:14:12]  And so I am curious.
[02:14:13]  Frey, by the way, looks like John Osoff.
[02:14:18]  He's like the John Osoff of the North.
[02:14:21]  Yeah, very similar.
[02:14:23]  That is true.
[02:14:24]  They do.
[02:14:25]  He's like, yeah, the Ice Age, the Icy John Ossif.
[02:14:29]  I saw Johnny Ossif at a restaurant.
[02:14:34]  Really?
[02:14:34]  Yeah.
[02:14:35]  What kind of restaurant?
[02:14:37]  My friend's restaurant in Atlanta.
[02:14:38]  Okay.
[02:14:40]  Gentleman Jesse.
[02:14:42]  Well, that's not the name of the restaurant, but yeah.
[02:14:46]  Yeah.
[02:14:47]  He touched my penis under the table.
[02:14:48]  Okay.
[02:14:49]  And I was just walking by.
[02:14:51]  But I forgot about him.
[02:14:52]  I was like, oh, yeah, that guy.
[02:14:54]  Do you think he needs vantage points?
[02:14:56]  Ossuf?
[02:14:57]  He was sitting down.
[02:14:58]  Shit.
[02:14:59]  Okay.
[02:14:59]  Yeah.
[02:15:00]  Couldn't tell.
[02:15:01]  But obviously, I did use my meta ray-bands to take many pictures of him, ran it through various Grok, Grok, Grok, deep height research, et cetera.
[02:15:12]  John Ossif is 5-1.
[02:15:15]  Deep height research.
[02:15:17]  It's like gate analysis.
[02:15:19]  God gate analysis.
[02:15:21]  We got to check it out.
[02:15:23]  Oh, wait, they caught him.
[02:15:24]  I forgot.
[02:15:25]  They actually just wanted to find the guy that they tried to pick on.
[02:15:29]  Oh, my God.
[02:15:30]  The Blaze.
[02:15:31]  They got to be the worst of those websites.
[02:15:33]  I, golly, it is.
[02:15:37]  Yeah, it is getting crazy.

=== Feeling the Shift (01:14) ===

[02:15:39]  They're going to really, when they do hit New York, it's going to be crazy.
[02:15:43]  There's a lot of news going on.
[02:15:45]  Yeah, it really is.
[02:15:46]  A lot of things happening.
[02:15:49]  Feels like a shift is in the air.
[02:15:52]  Yeah, something feels like something really good is about to happen.
[02:15:57]  Feels like something awesome is going to happen.
[02:16:00]  But yeah, I think a lot of there's a lot of tenses.
[02:16:02]  God can only imagine if this was happening during the summer.
[02:16:06]  I think you'd see a big a different response because people are really going out during the winter for this in the Midwest.
[02:16:12]  Um, but when uh when sort of the Trump Carnival rolls to more cities because they have this list of cities, which actually is mentioned in the lawsuit, uh, I think it's they narrowed it down from 500 to 30.
[02:16:23]  Um, I know, and they're, I gotta, you know, that that list was done by Grok, too.
[02:16:29]  You know, it was made by Grok.
[02:16:31]  Um, but uh, but when they're doing whatever they soy cities, Grok they cycled through it uh in the summer.
[02:16:38]  I think things could get a little uh I don't know what kinetic.
[02:16:43]  I guess they already are, anyways.
[02:16:46]  Let's wrap this up.
[02:16:47]  I'm Liz, I'm Bryce, I'm producer Young Chomsky, and we will see you next time.