True Anon Truth Feed - Episode 483: Brandy Melville Cattle Prod
Aired: 2025-08-21
Duration: 02:00:42


=== Aardvark Mystery (01:33) ===

[00:00:00]  Merriman, this is a stick up shape.
[00:00:02]  God, if I'm doing gangster voice.
[00:00:07]  Brandy Melville.
[00:00:10]  What other companies are there?
[00:00:12]  Those are the only two.
[00:00:38]  I will be naming every company I know for the next two and a half hours.
[00:00:43]  And it's fine because we only know two.
[00:00:45]  Well, no, we're going to start at the top.
[00:00:47]  We know another one.
[00:00:47]  There's one more.
[00:00:48]  Intel.
[00:00:49]  Moink.
[00:00:50]  Aardvark.
[00:00:51]  Apple.
[00:00:53]  Aardvark.
[00:00:54]  American Apparel.
[00:00:55]  Aardvark's probably a company.
[00:00:56]  We can't just use it probably.
[00:00:58]  It needs to be a real one.
[00:00:59]  How about this?
[00:01:00]  I bet you $100 Ardvark.
[00:01:02]  There's a company called Aardvark.
[00:01:03]  No, that's not how you bet?
[00:01:06]  No, that's not how the game is played.
[00:01:11]  I can't argue.
[00:01:12]  God, I don't know what it is, but a woman saying that, you know, I just got to say, you're right.
[00:01:17]  Hello, everyone.
[00:01:18]  Hello.
[00:01:18]  I'm Liz.
[00:01:19]  Brace Belden.
[00:01:20]  I'm Pratus Jon Chomsky.
[00:01:22]  And this is Shroanan.
[00:01:24]  Your favorite company, my favorite company, everyone's favorite company.
[00:01:28]  Which is yours.
[00:01:30]  What?
[00:01:31]  It is yours.
[00:01:31]  My favorite company is yours.

=== Duty Free Paintings (08:41) ===

[00:01:33]  No, I was reading the documents.
[00:01:34]  That's a nice thing to say.
[00:01:36]  I don't have ownership of the company.
[00:01:40]  It's 100% in Liz's name.
[00:01:43]  She enjoys your company.
[00:01:44]  Oh, you enjoy.
[00:01:45]  Okay.
[00:01:45]  I see.
[00:01:47]  But we should talk about that other thing.
[00:01:49]  I got to walk you through the sweet talk.
[00:01:51]  Okay.
[00:01:52]  Okay.
[00:01:52]  Well, first of all, we talked about that.
[00:01:54]  That was for legal reasons.
[00:01:56]  Yeah, I know, but you can't keep saying things are for legal reasons.
[00:02:00]  No, wait, here's a true non-roll.
[00:02:02]  You actually can just say that's for legal reasons.
[00:02:06]  What was that thing I was saying?
[00:02:07]  Someone asked you a question that you don't want to answer.
[00:02:10]  You just say, don't worry about it.
[00:02:12]  And you know what?
[00:02:12]  It's actually for legal reasons.
[00:02:13]  Why couldn't I leave the apartment?
[00:02:15]  It's for legal reasons.
[00:02:16]  Or also, I have an end.
[00:02:18]  There's an NDA.
[00:02:20]  Like if your girl is like, where were you last night?
[00:02:22]  Like, you didn't come home until four and you reek of Salvage perfume.
[00:02:29]  Okay.
[00:02:30]  And you're like, you know, I'd love to tell you and I love you, but I signed an NDA.
[00:02:37]  I think that paint between the Sauvage and the NDA, that's painting a real clear picture for me about what happened.
[00:02:45]  Ladies, what happens?
[00:02:46]  You go to a guy's house, you know, you just like, you met him on Araya.
[00:02:51]  Although there's a new, on the walk here, I noticed there's wheat pasted a new horrible looking dating app.
[00:02:59]  I should have taken a picture and sent it to you guys.
[00:03:00]  That looks like it's out.
[00:03:01]  Muz?
[00:03:02]  No, not Muz.
[00:03:04]  I'm banned from Muzz.
[00:03:05]  That's a crazy name.
[00:03:06]  Yeah, I'm banned.
[00:03:07]  I used to see those on the subway.
[00:03:09]  Yeah.
[00:03:09]  Oh, God.
[00:03:09]  Those were, yeah.
[00:03:10]  That was.
[00:03:11]  What's the new one?
[00:03:12]  And the new one is, I can't remember, but it was very like, it had like a collar and like a cigarettes and like lips and stuff.
[00:03:21]  Was it like a Sephora?
[00:03:22]  It was.
[00:03:23]  No, it was like kind of like in the style that like that cartoony Gen Z kind of shit, you know what I'm saying?
[00:03:29]  But it was like it read quia for me, but it didn't say it on there.
[00:03:37]  And so I'm like, it might not, it might just be like branding or something.
[00:03:41]  I don't know.
[00:03:42]  But anyway, that's kind of the new thing.
[00:03:44]  It's like you want to, you want to be like, but you can't say it because being woke isn't cool anymore.
[00:03:51]  Exactly.
[00:03:51]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:03:52]  But imagine you meet a guy off of whatever app we're talking about that I briefly saw today on the Wheat Paste, and you go to a guy's house and you haven't made love quite yet, but you go in there to primp to the bathroom, take a little pre-love making dump.
[00:04:10]  And you open, of course, to look perhaps if he has some Xanax.
[00:04:14]  And you see nothing in his medicine cabinet save a gallon of Sauvage.
[00:04:22]  Well, I think you would have noticed it before you got there if he's rocking a gallon of Sauvage.
[00:04:26]  But perhaps, obviously, the tough thing about wearing Sauvage is that the musk.
[00:04:30]  What do you know about Sauvage?
[00:04:32]  Probably everything that you do, dude.
[00:04:35]  Are you going to smell it?
[00:04:36]  I don't know how it smells, but the thing is, nobody does.
[00:04:40]  Nobody knows how it smells.
[00:04:42]  Nobody knows how it smells because the kind of guys who wear Sauvage, like myself, their natural sexual musk is so overpowering that the Sauvage actually becomes notes of one's own odor.
[00:04:57]  I see.
[00:04:57]  Odor.
[00:04:58]  Do you know?
[00:04:59]  What do you know about Sauvage?
[00:05:00]  I mean, I can't remember, but it would be depth.
[00:05:03]  I'm sure that it would like, if I smelled it, I would be like, oh, that's Sauvage.
[00:05:07]  It's like it definitely, to me, like there's a lot of things that like you see ads for, but are really only sold in duty-free places.
[00:05:17]  You know what I mean?
[00:05:17]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:05:18]  Who's buying if you're, by the way, about duty-free.
[00:05:21]  What cologne are you wearing?
[00:05:22]  I can't remember the name, but I have a habit.
[00:05:25]  Do you have a rotation or just one?
[00:05:26]  I have, it's called Ganymede.
[00:05:29]  I'm serious.
[00:05:30]  What?
[00:05:31]  What is that?
[00:05:32]  I don't know.
[00:05:32]  It's the cologne I wear.
[00:05:33]  It's called Ganymede.
[00:05:34]  Okay.
[00:05:35]  I wear it every day.
[00:05:36]  Really?
[00:05:36]  Yeah, just a spritz.
[00:05:38]  Interesting.
[00:05:38]  You know?
[00:05:39]  On the neck?
[00:05:40]  No.
[00:05:43]  Just leave it at that.
[00:05:44]  I'll just leave it at that.
[00:05:45]  But it's wherever needs it the most.
[00:05:48]  Whatever the hot spots are, I put it down there.
[00:05:52]  But if you're, who's buying the candy at those fucking places?
[00:05:56]  You know what I mean?
[00:05:57]  Duty-free?
[00:05:57]  At the duty-free.
[00:05:58]  What about the cans of popcorn?
[00:05:59]  You bring the cans of popcorn on the airplane?
[00:06:01]  But I'm like, you're buying, but it's the, oh, yeah, oh, yes.
[00:06:05]  Here's my gallon of cheddar popcorn that I never have to pay tax on.
[00:06:09]  I've never, I mean, I'm like, it's like, how much candy?
[00:06:12]  I will, I will think that people are consuming candy at rates that I don't understand because I don't buy candy very often.
[00:06:20]  The very often is a great qualifier.
[00:06:22]  I'm not going to say I don't buy candy ever.
[00:06:24]  I don't.
[00:06:25]  I don't buy candy.
[00:06:25]  I don't.
[00:06:26]  You just ate a piece of candy.
[00:06:28]  It's from sweetwater.
[00:06:29]  My candy came free from the hairdresser.
[00:06:32]  It was in my purse.
[00:06:33]  You have not bought candy.
[00:06:35]  I'm including chocolate.
[00:06:37]  No, I haven't.
[00:06:38]  No.
[00:06:39]  It's been a while.
[00:06:41]  You haven't bought candy?
[00:06:42]  You guys don't love women.
[00:06:43]  That's not true.
[00:06:44]  I haven't bought candy for me in many years.
[00:06:46]  I'll say that.
[00:06:47]  My girlfriend's buying even less candy.
[00:06:49]  Yeah.
[00:06:49]  Well, you have to buy because you're like, take that out of here.
[00:06:53]  I bet you you buy candy from women.
[00:06:55]  You know, that's what you got to do.
[00:06:57]  I think that's what Predators say.
[00:06:59]  You buy candy for women.
[00:07:01]  For girls.
[00:07:03]  It's more for girls than women, you know?
[00:07:05]  Skittles.
[00:07:07]  Sweet tarts.
[00:07:08]  Bringing your girlfriend Skittles.
[00:07:10]  Sweet tarts from a sweetheart.
[00:07:12]  What is the sour?
[00:07:13]  What are the sour ones?
[00:07:14]  Warheads?
[00:07:15]  I loved Warhead.
[00:07:16]  But I don't buy like a Snickers or nothing ever.
[00:07:19]  But I would love to.
[00:07:20]  The only time I buy candy is at movie theaters because I like to junk out at movies.
[00:07:24]  So you do buy candy.
[00:07:26]  Yeah, but I was thinking like in real life.
[00:07:28]  I feel like movie theater.
[00:07:29]  First of all, I never go to the movie theater.
[00:07:31]  Because I guess it's a dark night.
[00:07:32]  But I do feel like movie theater is like place is like safe haven of indulgence, depending on what the film is, obviously.
[00:07:40]  Yeah.
[00:07:41]  But if I'm going to like the AMC or whatever, I don't know why.
[00:07:45]  I'm such a fucking boomer.
[00:07:48]  It's like, we got to get the popcorn.
[00:07:50]  We got to get the soda.
[00:07:51]  We got to get the candy.
[00:07:52]  And it's like for fun times because I don't, that's not real life, you know?
[00:07:56]  And so it's like little safe.
[00:07:57]  It's like going to Disneyland or something for me.
[00:07:58]  By the way, three booze down for the motherfucking Nighthawk cinemas, when I went there, obviously, you know, the show, Style Guy, Trunon Style Guy, we do not think food should be served in movie theaters by a waiter.
[00:08:12]  We just think that's a fundamentally different experience, dinner and a movie, combining the two.
[00:08:16]  Also, why would you do that?
[00:08:17]  The date is dinner and a movie.
[00:08:19]  Yes.
[00:08:20]  Go on.
[00:08:20]  You can't combine it.
[00:08:21]  You go on the date.
[00:08:23]  You can do it in your game.
[00:08:24]  Guess what?
[00:08:24]  You just cut out all the talking parts.
[00:08:26]  Yes, which is what, by the way, Gen Z wants.
[00:08:29]  Yeah, true.
[00:08:30]  But at the Nighthawk, at the Alamo, which I don't go to after they went on strike, and I don't know how that resolved itself, but I'm just assuming they're still looking at it.
[00:08:37]  It's okay to go there now.
[00:08:39]  But.
[00:08:40]  Yeah, they'll give you like a sloppy cheeseburger during the movie.
[00:08:44]  Well, no, but they duck down.
[00:08:46]  They duck down.
[00:08:47]  You know what I mean?
[00:08:48]  And you feel bad when they're ducking, but they duck down.
[00:08:51]  At the Night Hawk, they just strode in front of me back and forth like I was being hypnotized by a pocket watch.
[00:09:01]  And I was starting counting.
[00:09:02]  I'm like, this guy's just been walking down the this is supposed to be like a fancy movie.
[00:09:06]  I mean, it's not really, but cinephiles.
[00:09:08]  But I'm like, this is crazy.
[00:09:09]  This isn't a cinephile experience.
[00:09:11]  When I'm and I've been practicing, I've been busted for cinephilia several times in my life.
[00:09:16]  When a guy's walking back and forth in front of me, I'm like, this is crazy.
[00:09:19]  This would never happen to the AMC.
[00:09:21]  It would never happen at the AMC.
[00:09:23]  And that's why I'll say this: AMC is a superior cinematic experience.
[00:09:26]  I love the AMC.
[00:09:27]  You can see it.
[00:09:27]  Except for the like super old movie theater by me, which I really love.
[00:09:32]  Oh, yeah.
[00:09:32]  Well, that's a classic.
[00:09:34]  Yeah, yeah, that's a classic.
[00:09:36]  And I love going to that one in Manhattan with the big pillars.
[00:09:39]  And I love sitting behind the pillar and I can't see the movie, so I can go on my phone.
[00:09:44]  And Film Forum's fine.
[00:09:45]  That's the one I'm talking about.
[00:09:46]  Oh, yeah.
[00:09:47]  They do have the sight line issue.
[00:09:48]  The sightline issue of Film Forum.
[00:09:50]  One time I went to a movie.
[00:09:52]  I don't know if I told you this.
[00:09:53]  I went, I was like, so excited.
[00:09:55]  I bought tickets.
[00:09:55]  It was like they were only showing it screening.
[00:09:58]  Like, they're doing two screenings or something.
[00:10:00]  And I'll tell you why in a second.
[00:10:01]  So we sit down and then they introduce the film and they're like, we're so excited for you here.
[00:10:06]  It is four and a half hours long.
[00:10:09]  Or no, wait.
[00:10:09]  It might have been five hours.
[00:10:11]  And I was like, I'm sorry.
[00:10:12]  Oh, I remember when you went to that.

=== Sightline Issue Confession (10:35) ===

[00:10:14]  You told me about that.
[00:10:15]  I had no idea because I didn't think to check that it's just going to be an email beforehand.
[00:10:21]  Five hours.
[00:10:21]  Did you see the whole time?
[00:10:23]  No, I think we didn't make it the whole way.
[00:10:26]  Yeah, that's that's that's tough.
[00:10:27]  What's that movie about?
[00:10:28]  They put a fucking uh they put like a camera on top of a shipping container like cargo or logistics or something.
[00:10:35]  Yeah, occasionally great name for a movie.
[00:10:37]  It's like months long.
[00:10:38]  We like every like six months, we get like an email from some movie theater or whatever.
[00:10:42]  Be like, you guys want to host a screening?
[00:10:44]  I'm like, we'll do that one.
[00:10:46]  We'll do cargo.
[00:10:48]  Like an Abramovich thing.
[00:10:50]  Yeah.
[00:10:50]  Who?
[00:10:50]  Oh, the woman.
[00:10:51]  Yeah.
[00:10:52]  Yeah.
[00:10:52]  You can kind of come in at any point and see what's going on.
[00:10:55]  What's up?
[00:10:56]  They don't let me into her things.
[00:10:57]  Yeah.
[00:10:58]  Because they think I'd change her mind.
[00:10:59]  Because you keep bringing all that candy.
[00:11:02]  Feeding your Skittles.
[00:11:03]  Hey.
[00:11:04]  Hey, lady.
[00:11:05]  She started having too good of a time because you're supposed to go there and like be mean to her, whatever.
[00:11:09]  She cries or something.
[00:11:10]  But for me, I go in there, I make her day back.
[00:11:12]  You're romancing.
[00:11:13]  I bring her flowers.
[00:11:15]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:11:15]  I bring her because to me, she's sleeping beauty.
[00:11:18]  Abramovich is sleeping beauty.
[00:11:20]  So I bring her Skittles.
[00:11:21]  I bring her a flower, not flowers.
[00:11:23]  Women don't like those.
[00:11:25]  And I bring her a fucking salvage and I just start spraying that shit all over.
[00:11:28]  And that's how we bring it all the way around.
[00:11:30]  We have a real show for you today.
[00:11:32]  Our old friend, Ezra Marcus, is here.
[00:11:35]  She looked towards the seat.
[00:11:36]  He was there.
[00:11:36]  I did.
[00:11:37]  Yeah.
[00:11:37]  But he's not there anymore.
[00:11:38]  He left.
[00:11:39]  He actually died.
[00:11:40]  Kind of Elijah's situation.
[00:11:42]  We're keeping it open.
[00:11:43]  The prophet.
[00:11:45]  Yeah.
[00:11:46]  And what are we talking about?
[00:11:49]  He has another crazy story.
[00:11:50]  He's always got these crazy fucking stories.
[00:11:53]  This is, we talk about it in the interview, but if you were, no, what I'm about to say.
[00:12:00]  Okay.
[00:12:01]  If you were a fan of Zort, of which I think there were three.
[00:12:05]  Got a lot of feedback on the Zort, by the way.
[00:12:08]  And it wasn't good.
[00:12:09]  And here's the deal with that.
[00:12:11]  Zort was good.
[00:12:12]  That was actually, I hear, when you guys got pissed about the Utah series, I get it.
[00:12:18]  Those are fake friends.
[00:12:19]  Those are fake fans.
[00:12:21]  They're not our friends.
[00:12:23]  We're ending this parasocial shit now.
[00:12:24]  We know who you are.
[00:12:25]  It's not parasocial.
[00:12:26]  It's two-way.
[00:12:27]  We can see your names and IP addresses.
[00:12:30]  And when you leave negative comments, we know.
[00:12:33]  And if your life gets worse at any point in the future, could be now, could be 50 years from now.
[00:12:40]  Dog dies mysteriously.
[00:12:42]  Parents go missing on a plane in Malaysia.
[00:12:47]  That was us.
[00:12:49]  That happened before the show started.
[00:12:51]  I know, but we went back and did that.
[00:12:52]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:12:53]  Because we have access to technologies that Patreon gives us that you couldn't fucking that would fucking need to know about.
[00:12:58]  Primer style.
[00:13:00]  The only thing people complained about with Utah was, I don't understand what's going on.
[00:13:05]  Yeah, that was a big complaint with Utah.
[00:13:07]  People seem to love the series, except they didn't understand what it was about.
[00:13:09]  But this is what, you know what I love about the people who listen to the show?
[00:13:12]  They loved it despite not understanding it.
[00:13:16]  And I would say because they didn't understand.
[00:13:17]  And I'm sticking to that.
[00:13:18]  That was a good series.
[00:13:20]  Well, people came around.
[00:13:21]  It was like two years later.
[00:13:22]  They were like, oh, more Utah.
[00:13:23]  But at the time, it's just like how nobody liked Eyes Wide Shut.
[00:13:27]  Yeah.
[00:13:27]  Now everybody's like, oh, I need week.
[00:13:29]  And we kept going.
[00:13:32]  After the first one was poorly received.
[00:13:34]  How can you hate an episode called Tuta?
[00:13:36]  It's the second Utah one.
[00:13:38]  Tuta.
[00:13:39]  But the Zort ones, that was a tight, taught story that we extended very long because we enjoyed it.
[00:13:48]  And we rock our own.
[00:13:50]  But that was, I think we told that story with little fluff.
[00:13:55]  And yet, pilloried by the press.
[00:13:58]  Negative reviews in Podcast Monthly.
[00:14:01]  Podcast Weekly hated it.
[00:14:03]  And Podcast Daily said it was the worst thing that they've ever heard.
[00:14:07]  And they said that three different times.
[00:14:09]  For every episode.
[00:14:10]  For every episode.
[00:14:11]  Two, three years from now, people are going to be like, oh, remember when Trunan was good back when they were doing Zort?
[00:14:15]  I wish they could.
[00:14:16]  Yeah, now they only cover.
[00:14:18]  Because what do you guys want to hear?
[00:14:20]  Nothing.
[00:14:21]  You know what I mean?
[00:14:23]  You'd rather hear the sound of me going, stop.
[00:14:28]  Stop, please stop.
[00:14:30]  Oh, my God, stop.
[00:14:31]  It's not funny.
[00:14:31]  Ow.
[00:14:32]  Yes.
[00:14:33]  Ow.
[00:14:33]  Bryce, stop punching yourself.
[00:14:35]  And that's what the fucking abusive people say.
[00:14:39]  This is what I'm going to say.
[00:14:39]  I'm going to be in middle school.
[00:14:41]  Zort was good, and I stand by it.
[00:14:43]  I think it's a good idea.
[00:14:44]  I'm going to stand by.
[00:14:46]  Stand by every word, except for any ones that would get us in trouble illegally.
[00:14:51]  I think it was good.
[00:14:52]  It was so okay.
[00:14:53]  You're still going back a little bit.
[00:14:54]  It doesn't fucking matter what people think because I enjoyed it.
[00:14:57]  You enjoyed it.
[00:14:57]  And that's all that matters.
[00:14:59]  That's true.
[00:15:00]  But while Zora, while Zor was happening, and you will be pleasured to know that while Zora was happening, I was like, I was saying this shit.
[00:15:10]  You just start saying stuff like that.
[00:15:11]  I do.
[00:15:12]  I just said something like that.
[00:15:16]  This is so, this is so, you know what?
[00:15:18]  This is so male of you.
[00:15:22]  I don't know what I meant by that.
[00:15:24]  But when Zor was happening, I was like, Ezra, you have the resources of a magazine.
[00:15:28]  You got to cover this.
[00:15:30]  And I was so close to getting him to do it.
[00:15:33]  And then this story happened.
[00:15:35]  And it took the wind out of the sails.
[00:15:37]  And now, I mean, we would have still done it, but this story.
[00:15:42]  And this story, I feel like, is a good story.
[00:15:43]  It's actually a horrible story.
[00:15:45]  It's terrible.
[00:15:46]  Terrible things happen.
[00:15:48]  But it's a fun one to talk about.
[00:15:51]  So without further ado, here's Ezra Marcus.
[00:15:58]  What's up, guys?
[00:15:59]  Ezra, Ezra, Ezra, Ezra.
[00:16:03]  So nice to have you back.
[00:16:04]  What happened this time?
[00:16:05]  Someone fucking shoved Bitcoin up their ass and died or fucking had sex with a Doge dog or something?
[00:16:13]  What's going on?
[00:16:13]  I can't believe you're saying Doge now.
[00:16:15]  Well, I know.
[00:16:17]  You know what?
[00:16:18]  I'm fucking Maya Culpa on that.
[00:16:20]  Maya Culpa.
[00:16:21]  I've had to.
[00:16:22]  So how style around here is we call it doggy because there's a picture of a dog.
[00:16:27]  Yeah.
[00:16:29]  Right?
[00:16:30]  Yeah.
[00:16:30]  Seems self-evident.
[00:16:31]  Sure.
[00:16:32]  But in conversation, I've had to explain myself so many times to the ignorant pigs walking around these dirty, disgusting fucking streets that I've just started being like doggy, like doge.
[00:16:45]  And now I just probably think, you know what?
[00:16:48]  Stand your ground.
[00:16:50]  Yeah.
[00:16:50]  You're right.
[00:16:51]  I'm serious.
[00:16:52]  Stand your ground and you say it's doggy.
[00:16:55]  And if people are like, I don't know what you're talking about, that's your fucking problem.
[00:16:58]  It's doggy.
[00:16:58]  You know, context with a picture of a dog.
[00:17:00]  You don't know how to read the conversation.
[00:17:03]  So you fuck the dog.
[00:17:06]  Welcome back to the show.
[00:17:07]  Thanks for having me.
[00:17:09]  It's actually always hateful to have you because we always have to talk about some disgusting subject with you.
[00:17:15]  This isn't disgusting.
[00:17:16]  Yes, it is.
[00:17:17]  We covered this a little bit.
[00:17:19]  This story?
[00:17:20]  A little bit.
[00:17:20]  When it first dropped, but not in full, you have a new piece out in New York magazine: The Cryptomaniacs and the Torture Townhouse: How two men charged with an outrageous kidnapping scheme introduced a new kind of crime to the city by Ezra Marcus and Jen Vietchner.
[00:17:43]  Thank you.
[00:17:45]  Um, this piece is crazy.
[00:17:48]  There are so many details.
[00:17:50]  We were just talking before we started recording that one, this is like, this is a, such an Ezra Marcus piece.
[00:17:58]  Two, this is such a true non piece.
[00:18:01]  Three, there's so much in here that feels like, I think I said a little drool box, but it's like a little like tiny contained universe of everything that is going on in New York City or has been going on in New York City for the past like, I don't know, since COVID, basically, it feels like everything makes an appearance in here, including a fucking Biden family member.
[00:18:27]  Like there's just so many good details and I can't wait to go through it.
[00:18:31]  But what's fun is we were talking and we did cover this and this story, this like insane story that we're going to lay out is what got us into Zort.
[00:18:44]  Yeah.
[00:18:45]  There's a lot of similarities to it.
[00:18:48]  I was trying to get Ezra to do a story on Zort.
[00:18:53]  And then this happened.
[00:18:55]  Zort is an acquired taste.
[00:18:57]  Well, Zort is a very good thing.
[00:18:58]  Zort is like this.
[00:18:59]  Like this is New York Zort.
[00:19:01]  This is New York Zort.
[00:19:02]  I love that.
[00:19:03]  It is.
[00:19:04]  It is.
[00:19:04]  Cause it's got a lot of similarities.
[00:19:05]  It's got, well, there's the, I would say the off-duty cops seem like they play a little less of a role here.
[00:19:15]  Yeah.
[00:19:15]  Which is weird.
[00:19:16]  Zort, the cops, from my understanding, were like actually wielding guns on behalf of.
[00:19:26]  But here they were probably just wielding huge amounts of overtime pay.
[00:19:29]  And it seems like the main two guys were wielding a lot of guns.
[00:19:35]  And I want to say this right now, and I've said this before on the show, and I'll say it again.
[00:19:39]  New York City's gun laws, not to mention New York State, but New York City in particular's gun laws are absurd and they're fascistic.
[00:19:47]  And if they were changed and the average law-abiding citizen could wield a pistol, even just tucked into the front of his clothes.
[00:19:55]  So when he fucking opens his giant oversized leather jacket, when someone's bothering him, then, and so they leave him alone, this story would never have happened.
[00:20:05]  I don't know.
[00:20:05]  Because these gentlemen could have been dispatched some night outside of the box as I walk out with my pussy dripping slime all over the sidewalk and one of these gentlemen harasses me.
[00:20:19]  I open up Taurus Judge there.
[00:20:22]  Take it out, blow off one of my nuts.
[00:20:24]  That's all good.
[00:20:25]  I got three.
[00:20:26]  Point the gun right at them, blam.
[00:20:28]  And then we let the motherfucking Dago go from the townhouse.
[00:20:32]  We should start at the beginning because there are two gentlemen in this story, both of whom entrance me.
[00:20:40]  They're so good.
[00:20:41]  They're incredible.
[00:20:43]  William Du Plessis, old Bill Du Plessis, and John, what is it, John Weltz or Woltz?
[00:20:49]  Woltz.

=== Bard and the Degenerate Class (13:14) ===

[00:20:50]  That's probably been tough for him his whole life.
[00:20:53]  Tell me about the milieu that Bill Du Plessis, because these are our two kidnappers that we're dealing with here.
[00:21:00]  Tell me about William Duplessis.
[00:21:02]  Where's he from?
[00:21:02]  What's his deal?
[00:21:03]  What's the upbringing like?
[00:21:04]  Yeah, I mean, he's such a fascinating guy.
[00:21:08]  And the upbringing, I think, is a really key part to understanding what happened here.
[00:21:15]  Will is from Greenwich.
[00:21:20]  He grew up next to Ray Dalio, his neighbor.
[00:21:23]  Which is correct.
[00:21:24]  Again, I just, every time you bring in these details, there's so many lines like that in this piece that you're just like, of course he fucking grew up next to Ray Dalio.
[00:21:35]  How is this real?
[00:21:36]  Anyway, sorry, go on.
[00:21:37]  No, it's, and it's, it's like, and his, his dad was sort of in finance.
[00:21:45]  He worked at a bank.
[00:21:47]  I like to think of his dad, James Du Plessis, as the sort of like this generational figure representing the transition from the kind of Gordon Gecko Wall Street to our, you know, current paradigm.
[00:22:01]  And his dad, like, you know, it seems like they were wealthy, but not like Ray Dalio wealthy.
[00:22:10]  Sure.
[00:22:10]  And he was, he's one of three siblings.
[00:22:15]  What Will is.
[00:22:16]  He's, sorry, four siblings.
[00:22:18]  He has a sister and two brothers.
[00:22:21]  And he had, he had a really strange childhood, it seems like.
[00:22:26]  Like he, he got in trouble in high school for stabbing a drug dealer.
[00:22:33]  And then he gets sort of sent to China by his dad, who's trying to sort of teach him some kind of lesson.
[00:22:40]  And his dad has, he's, he's like, he's working in a bicycle factory there, but like staying in like a fancy hotel.
[00:22:47]  It's some sort of like, you know, learn your lesson moment.
[00:22:50]  And he's this like, what lesson are you learning from that?
[00:22:52]  How to build up?
[00:22:53]  His dad has a foresight about the Chinese century.
[00:22:55]  I know, but true.
[00:22:56]  But I'm like, if I, because I got in trouble as a teenager and I got sent to like a reform school.
[00:23:00]  This guy gets sent to China.
[00:23:03]  This is.
[00:23:04]  He just got sent to China to have a better life than the average bicycle worker by a million bicycle factory worker.
[00:23:10]  He should have sent him to Xinjiang.
[00:23:12]  Yeah.
[00:23:12]  Kind of like a little countryside moment.
[00:23:14]  Yeah.
[00:23:16]  But yeah, he's like, he's, he's like a, you can see there's some, oh, he says he stabbed somebody.
[00:23:22]  Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of bravado.
[00:23:24]  There's, he's always sort of like aligning himself with like talking about how he was in the bloods or this or that.
[00:23:29]  You know, he's bloods.
[00:23:30]  It's like a real kind of like a, you know, prep school gangster archetype.
[00:23:35]  Yeah.
[00:23:36]  With some reality to it, it seems like.
[00:23:39]  But I also think a lot of it is sort of like overblown guy trying to act tough.
[00:23:45]  I mean, he goes to Bard, which is kind of absurd.
[00:23:51]  He's this like massive guy.
[00:23:53]  I kind of associate him.
[00:23:55]  He's like 6'5.
[00:23:56]  He's just built.
[00:23:57]  He's this hulking kind of specimen.
[00:23:59]  And I just think of him as this like, you know, the kind of Tucker Max subculture of that era, I think, really got to him.
[00:24:11]  I don't want to say he specifically was like tapped into that, but I just mean like that moment where he's like always talking about like, you know, somebody was telling me he'd wake him up as a freshman and be like, we got to drive to Kingston.
[00:24:24]  I want to go fuck some bitches at like four in the morning.
[00:24:26]  Yeah, Kingston.
[00:24:27]  You know, that kind of thing.
[00:24:28]  Jamaica.
[00:24:29]  He's, um, he's always, good one.
[00:24:33]  He's always doing drugs.
[00:24:35]  He's, he's like a tank and he just does like just a huge amount of drugs.
[00:24:39]  Keeps going.
[00:24:40]  Really, really macho, always trying to be this like, you know, outrageous like alpha figure, which is absurd at Bard, I think.
[00:24:49]  But some people found him a mixture of really off-putting and really kind of funny and could be a good hang and engaging.
[00:24:57]  He didn't last long there.
[00:24:59]  No one lasts long there.
[00:25:00]  No.
[00:25:02]  He was really, he was drawn on campus to sort of hang out with the like, you know, the kids there who were from real sort of blue chip families, like real old money stuff.
[00:25:16]  And he was always sort of like trying to, I think, appear like he was one of them.
[00:25:20]  And to a certain extent, he kind of is, even though he's kind of not.
[00:25:24]  But he became friends with Peter Brandt Jr., who's dad, Peter Brandt, like a industrialist billionaire.
[00:25:34]  Who's big in the art world?
[00:25:35]  He's a collector of Warhols.
[00:25:38]  I actually, in a way, worked for him at one point because I worked for Interview Magazine briefly, which is part of the Brandt family Warhol collection because Andy started it.
[00:25:47]  And so he's like, yeah, I mean, his daughter was my boss, but whatever.
[00:25:52]  But the point is that he's this like real sort of actual fancy guy.
[00:25:55]  And Duplessis is this sort of outsider.
[00:25:57]  It's almost like a 19th century, you know, novel kind of dynamic.
[00:26:02]  He's like, yeah, it's like he's like medium bourgeois and he's like trying to hang out with like the big bourgeois.
[00:26:06]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:26:07]  And like, yeah, or like you say, the previous era's class.
[00:26:12]  And this is this kind of like new money or he will become like sort of like degenerate new money class or emblematic money.
[00:26:18]  It's interesting because you know what it reminds me of a little bit, especially like the young stuff, is the fucking Max Wade Marin County.
[00:26:24]  Exactly.
[00:26:25]  You know, where it's like this dude from like a nice family, nice house is just like, he needs to act.
[00:26:32]  I think, yeah, like this is like an archetype.
[00:26:34]  Stuff is.
[00:26:36]  I mean, there's numerous stories about people who kind of get uh enraptured by this lifestyle, who come from really rich families, who just become criminals because they like maybe have this complex about like never actually having to struggle or do anything and so they have to like not just become like pretend to be poor, but like actually like be like a gangster.
[00:27:00]  Right, but you don't need, why you don't you have, you could just go to.
[00:27:04]  I also think these things snowball very quickly yeah, especially when you are a kind of like someone who can or is confident that they can get away with anything.
[00:27:15]  That like suddenly it's sort of like, well, maybe it just starts with me like talking a bunch of shit and me being a big dj at Webster Hall love that detail, William The Conqueror that was his dj name, William The Conqueror, so fucking terrible um.
[00:27:32]  And then suddenly quickly it's like, oh, now i'm kind of like moving some drugs or now i'm like kind of fucking around.
[00:27:39]  You know what I mean, and it's like easy to see how it.
[00:27:43]  You know, you kind of like level up only because at each previous level you would never like you're never gonna get really in trouble.
[00:27:51]  Yeah, because you always have like startup capital.
[00:27:53]  If you want to become a drug dealer, you know, just ask dad for whatever ten thousand dollars, yeah.
[00:27:58]  Or you have built-in clients yeah, you have built-in clients, all your boys, because they can afford drugs and they can probably afford a lot of them.
[00:28:05]  And uh, if things get too hot, like what happened with him, I don't know, I don't know what happened at BARD, but like dad takes you and puts you in two lane yeah, I mean, he's he.
[00:28:15]  I think he at BARD, you know he really wanted to impress people.
[00:28:20]  I mean, I have a line in the story about how he was at um, some bar in town and somebody was like getting in his face and he just took a cigarette and put it out on his tongue to just like to the extent that people in the bar could smell burning flesh because he just wanted to show how hard he was.
[00:28:38]  Basically, I think he's.
[00:28:39]  He has that like that mode of just like i'm going to be the craziest motherfucker in the room scary guy in San Francisco I might have said this on the show before.
[00:28:48]  I won't say his name, but scary, much hated guy in San Francisco once poured uh, a candle wax into his eye at the makeout room.
[00:28:58]  You know what.
[00:28:59]  I know who you're talking about, because I was just talking about this yeah, and it's same kind of thing there.
[00:29:03]  You know what I mean?
[00:29:04]  It's like I guess there's no point in fighting you.
[00:29:07]  You know, you too.
[00:29:09]  You, I guess you're crazy win, I don't know, or you lose, I can't tell.
[00:29:13]  It seems like you got hurt, but you're okay with that.
[00:29:16]  So it's, i'll leave it at that yeah, and I mean, I think, like I mean, I think that it sounds like he, a lot of this was probably, you know, I don't want to speculate too much, but like a family thing where his dad seems to have been this really like, you know, swaggering alpha character himself.
[00:29:36]  And then you end up with his son sort of trying to trying to fill that role.
[00:29:42]  I mean, I talked to somebody.
[00:29:44]  I think there's also, there's a real, there's a real class thing.
[00:29:47]  Like there was somebody I talked to was friends with friends with Will in college.
[00:29:54]  And at some point, like his, Will's parents came up to maybe he had thought they were there maybe to have some kind of like intervention for Will because he was apparently struggling with drugs in some way.
[00:30:07]  And this kid that I was talking to was like, yeah, I'd like kind of dressed like a hippie college kid or whatever.
[00:30:14]  And then and the mom wouldn't even like look at him until it became clear that he was friends with her son.
[00:30:20]  And then it was like, oh, okay.
[00:30:21]  Yeah, right.
[00:30:22]  Like you're, you know what I mean?
[00:30:23]  Like they just like had this really strict notion of the sort of preppy Greenwich associations they wanted for him.
[00:30:31]  And I think he was sort of boxed in that way and trying to like, you know, be the, be the, like he would, he would say stuff, he would make sort of jokes like Will would like, you know, we go to, what is it, St. Bart's, like that's, that's the place to be because like when there's like, you know, the class war, like there's not going to be any poor people there or something like that.
[00:30:54]  You know, I think, but it's like, did he actually have, like, it's unclear if he was really properly of the class of people that would be a St. Barth.
[00:31:04]  I mean, but I don't know, but I think he definitely had money from Greenwich, but I still think there was sort of inside-outside thing going on there.
[00:31:10]  Yeah, for sure.
[00:31:10]  One thing he did get into early, though, was crypto, which gave him some real startup capital.
[00:31:16]  Definitely.
[00:31:17]  Which, again, I think that speaks to like who we're talking about.
[00:31:20]  Because that's not something that like, you know, Peter Brandt Jr. is not getting into crypto.
[00:31:26]  Kid like that doesn't know what money is.
[00:31:28]  He keeps his cash and money.
[00:31:29]  Like real, no, but like real billionaires kids, like they're not thinking about making money.
[00:31:34]  They don't, they're not conscious of money.
[00:31:36]  Money is like the air they breathe.
[00:31:38]  Somebody like Will, he's thinking about it.
[00:31:41]  He's trying to make money.
[00:31:42]  He's a hustler.
[00:31:42]  He's like, he's trying to, he's trying to make a bag.
[00:31:46]  And I think also he was just sort of like super online into computer stuff, whatever, like to some extent, like a sort of nerd archetype, kind of, but also just like thinking about making money even when he was really young and wrapped up into that sort of nascent crypto culture, all of that stuff in the early 2010s, which certainly was more of like a kind of like alpha space than like traditional coding or whatever.
[00:32:13]  Yeah, I mean, he at some point leaves Tulane.
[00:32:17]  I don't really.
[00:32:18]  Yeah, so he leaves Bard, he ends up at Tulane.
[00:32:21]  He leaves Tulane as well.
[00:32:23]  At some point, he's telling people he goes to rehab somewhere in there.
[00:32:28]  And he just sort of lands.
[00:32:30]  I don't think school was ever really for him.
[00:32:32]  I mean, I think he really early on was like, I'm just going to be in crypto.
[00:32:37]  And yeah, he was really early.
[00:32:39]  He was early on Ethereum.
[00:32:41]  He was early on Bitcoin.
[00:32:43]  Relatively, I mean, I think he was, he definitely, I'm sure he made some amount of money doing that.
[00:32:49]  He was featured on some crypto podcasts in the mid-2010s, sort of just like evangelist, like, well, Bitcoin's going to go to a million, like that kind of thing.
[00:33:01]  But again, that was relatively early, at least for as far as the price goes.
[00:33:06]  And, you know, I think he was just one of the sort of characters swimming around that sort of milieu of like guys boosting various projects on early crypto podcasts.
[00:33:20]  But he kind of fucked that up too.
[00:33:23]  Well, he ends up with in the loving arms of the dwarfish Brock Pierce, no?
[00:33:30]  Yeah.
[00:33:30]  Yeah, he works.
[00:33:32]  He has some sort of like business relationship with one of Brock's companies.
[00:33:37]  Not quite sure how close if he and Brock were ever working together directly or anything like that.
[00:33:43]  But yeah, I mean, he's certainly like, I mean, again, at that time, it's such a small industry.
[00:33:48]  Yeah.
[00:33:48]  There's just not that many people, companies you could work for.
[00:33:52]  Speaking of Brock Pierce, now it's like you really got to seek out one of his pool parties in order to have sex with very young Republican male interns in DC.

=== Cultural Food Combos (04:28) ===

[00:34:04]  Or so they say.
[00:34:07]  But he doesn't even last there very long.
[00:34:10]  No, I mean, I think he's like his sort of next big works at a few different sort of temporary working.
[00:34:22]  He's like a fund.
[00:34:22]  he works at another company this and that but eventually he ends up starting a fund with his dad Pangea which is a sort of reunited finally father and son and And Pangea itself must be reunited someday.
[00:34:38]  Well, perhaps that was the symbolism there.
[00:34:41]  I mean, really, it's like, I think one of the primary questions of this piece and of this show is how do we end racism?
[00:34:48]  And I think by just switching up the way that the continents are kind of going, going kind of back to the source code, really, I think we can really change.
[00:34:56]  Are you going to redivide them in a new way or just keep it as one big mass?
[00:35:00]  One big mass, right?
[00:35:02]  Yes, but I think we need to like do.
[00:35:04]  I think the thing that looms large for me is the European question.
[00:35:08]  Does that become the center of Earth?
[00:35:10]  No, I just think that if you want to end racism, you can't just, we got to like flip Europe around somehow.
[00:35:17]  Large-scale population transfers.
[00:35:20]  You're just going to put China next to, you know, whatever one of the white country?
[00:35:28]  They're going to dominate?
[00:35:29]  Dominate.
[00:35:30]  Yeah.
[00:35:30]  Well, they're going to do that anyway.
[00:35:31]  Fair enough.
[00:35:32]  Okay, sorry.
[00:35:32]  Australia.
[00:35:34]  You never had a chance.
[00:35:35]  Oh, Australia was, they were just about to.
[00:35:37]  It's going to be Australia.
[00:35:38]  I mean, that'll be amazing.
[00:35:39]  It'll be great.
[00:35:39]  Maybe we should design our own Pangea.
[00:35:42]  Yeah.
[00:35:42]  Well, that's good.
[00:35:43]  Imagine what we could do.
[00:35:44]  I have.
[00:35:45]  Think about the crazy combos we could come up with.
[00:35:49]  I've thought of like five or six new races this month.
[00:35:51]  No, it's not about races.
[00:35:52]  I'm talking about just like country placement.
[00:35:55]  Yeah.
[00:35:56]  Like, let's mix them up.
[00:35:58]  Yeah.
[00:35:58]  Let's make Mexico cold.
[00:36:00]  That would be crazy.
[00:36:01]  Yeah.
[00:36:02]  Anyway, this reminds me of a theory my friends and I have been trying out.
[00:36:06]  This is hard.
[00:36:06]  This is a real tangent.
[00:36:08]  Like there's obviously exceptions to this, but let me see if I can get this straight.
[00:36:14]  For every country, there's like an inverse power relationship between the quality of a country's music and food.
[00:36:22]  Like Mexico, great example.
[00:36:24]  Like the food is amazing.
[00:36:26]  The music, kind of ass.
[00:36:28]  Yeah.
[00:36:28]  You know what I'm talking about?
[00:36:29]  That's a big, that's a very grand statement to make about Mexican.
[00:36:32]  No, I have to, and I know, everybody knows that a lot of people eat Mexicans.
[00:36:41]  Horrible food.
[00:36:41]  I love.
[00:36:42]  Which one?
[00:36:42]  I think that actually the horrible food meme about the British is incorrect.
[00:36:47]  Also, it's not great.
[00:36:48]  I think you can get grapefruit.
[00:36:50]  I mean, first of all, there is grapefood in Britain.
[00:36:53]  This is good Indian food.
[00:36:54]  Yes, of course.
[00:36:55]  But that's Indian food.
[00:36:56]  But it's, yeah, but it's British Indian food.
[00:36:58]  How's their music?
[00:37:01]  I mean, they have a very robust.
[00:37:03]  I don't actually know.
[00:37:04]  It's a history.
[00:37:04]  I have a culture.
[00:37:06]  Don't question me on this because I don't know.
[00:37:10]  I will say to me, Mexican, a lot of music out of Mexico, and we're talking about traditional Mexican music.
[00:37:16]  Are we?
[00:37:17]  I'm talking about all music.
[00:37:18]  Well, I'm talking about the music that all the Mexican guys I knew throughout my life listen to, which is umpa music.
[00:37:27]  Like the what?
[00:37:28]  Oompa music.
[00:37:29]  What the fuck is umpa music?
[00:37:30]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:37:31]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:37:31]  How do you not know?
[00:37:32]  Like a polka?
[00:37:33]  It is polka.
[00:37:34]  Yeah, it's polka.
[00:37:35]  It is polka because it's German.
[00:37:36]  Yeah.
[00:37:38]  So is it German or Mexican?
[00:37:40]  It's Mexican music.
[00:37:41]  This is what Pangea can help solve.
[00:37:43]  Wait, Germany has neither good music nor food.
[00:37:46]  That's true.
[00:37:47]  This theory is horrible.
[00:37:49]  That's true.
[00:37:50]  Or Hungary is the exception that proves the rule.
[00:37:53]  It's the exception that proves the rule.
[00:37:54]  Hungary?
[00:37:56]  I don't actually know what they have going on either.
[00:37:58]  France has good music, but also I don't really like French food.
[00:38:01]  That's crazy.
[00:38:01]  I love it.
[00:38:03]  That's too blanket.
[00:38:04]  Germany.
[00:38:04]  There's so much different French food.
[00:38:06]  Germany does not have good music.
[00:38:07]  That's a crazy thing to say.
[00:38:08]  What are you talking about?
[00:38:09]  Are you like, are you out of your mind?
[00:38:11]  Yes, Kraftwerk, but like Beethoven.
[00:38:15]  Oh, now I'm talking about the money.
[00:38:17]  Now you're actually famously like historically.
[00:38:20]  Okay, Beethoven and Kraftwerk.
[00:38:22]  No, there's names too besides Beethoven and Kraftwerk.
[00:38:26]  Noi?
[00:38:28]  Sure.
[00:38:28]  Yeah.
[00:38:29]  Can?
[00:38:29]  Can?
[00:38:30]  The idea was Japanese.

=== Lawyers New 10-Day Scam? (05:51) ===

[00:38:33]  But they were different.
[00:38:34]  This is it.
[00:38:34]  No, first of all, yes.
[00:38:37]  It doesn't hold.
[00:38:38]  It doesn't hold.
[00:38:40]  But I like it because I can explore new avenues there.
[00:38:43]  But I do think that we're onto something here with the Pangea.
[00:38:46]  Let's get back to this.
[00:38:47]  Back to me.
[00:38:48]  So the Duplessis father and son.
[00:38:51]  Also, I'm sorry.
[00:38:52]  William is like, you must be pretty close to your dad, even though you're the fuck-up kid, to be like, dad, we're going into business together.
[00:39:00]  Well, I think what was happening was that his dad's sort of traditional finance career started going off the rails.
[00:39:08]  He was sort of like, he's divorced.
[00:39:11]  He wasn't making the kind of money he made before.
[00:39:14]  And he saw dollar signs in crypto.
[00:39:16]  And his son was sort of already in that zone.
[00:39:19]  Lutnik style.
[00:39:21]  Yeah.
[00:39:21]  So it made sense for them to kind of link up.
[00:39:24]  And they ended up doing business in, of all places, Switzerland was sort of their main kind of zone for trying to get crypto projects, finding people to invest in all this stuff.
[00:39:43]  I mean, it was like, I think there was a sort of thing happening there where they're trying and maybe are still trying to make Switzerland sort of like a new whatever, like crypto Silicon Valley kind of deal.
[00:39:52]  And these guys were just like, they were pretty successful initially with some of their, they invested in some, you know, it was around the time when there was like a bunch of crazy projects, one out of every four of which would suddenly make you millions and millions of dollars.
[00:40:07]  Yeah, this was like a crazy bubba in the crypto market.
[00:40:10]  Yeah, and they were just, it was like right place, right time, and they, and they did pretty well.
[00:40:16]  Even though I think in some ways the people also certainly accused the fund of being fraudulent in a number of ways, which are, you know, it's, I think, also very common in that space at that time that like crypto funds were sort of vehicles for funny money and moving stuff around in all sorts of ways.
[00:40:40]  I know you can't say it because those motherfucking, as you call them, those Jew lawyers of the New York magazine, I'm just plain didn't say that.
[00:40:47]  That's Liz Line.
[00:40:48]  But those lawyers at New York magazine say that, you know, you don't make stem.
[00:40:52]  It seems to me it's probably a scam.
[00:40:56]  They like certainly were accused of.
[00:41:03]  I mean, look, he's a rider.
[00:41:04]  He's throwing back his head so he can remember what the council said before they printed the article.
[00:41:08]  Yeah.
[00:41:11]  There were some accusations made at some point by some people.
[00:41:14]  Yeah, there were people that invested money with them that they never got back for sure.
[00:41:19]  Totally.
[00:41:19]  And these guys seem to have taken quite a bit of money out of it.
[00:41:23]  I do want to just, I mean, just to read from this right here, that winter, cash-rich, the Duplessis moved into a ski chalet in St. Moritz.
[00:41:30]  Investors who went to the Duplessis parties were greeted with custom skis, armed guards, and escorts.
[00:41:36]  Quote, those friendly women would then act as honeypots, says an executive who watched the Duplessis solicit investors.
[00:41:43]  Quote, potential investor hookup hooks up with a girl and he thinks he's getting lucky by association.
[00:41:49]  No, no, no, that's not what's happening.
[00:41:52]  And a shit ton of money starts like pouring in.
[00:41:55]  And so they're like running a really, I will say, probably more commonplace racket than any of us are aware of.
[00:42:03]  Yeah, I'm not gonna, I don't wanna, I don't wanna like make it seem like these guys are like these ultra criminals scamming this, you know, otherwise very up and up industry.
[00:42:12]  Like this is probably actually this scam is probably better for the guys getting scammed because at least you're like, wow, that beautiful model really seemed to like me.
[00:42:22]  And we, you know, we actually Frenched a little bit.
[00:42:27]  Whereas most of these things, it's like a guy hitting you up on Discord being like, bro, we're about to 100x.
[00:42:32]  I need your fucking, you know, security details.
[00:42:34]  Social security right now.
[00:42:35]  Yeah, I mean, in a way, it's kind of old school.
[00:42:38]  I think you're, you know, again, that's what's sort of interesting about the Duplessis is I think that they're combining these modes that are that are like very new school, you know, crypto online with this sort of old school 80s like honeypot thing.
[00:42:55]  I mean, that's, that's like straight out of the, I feel like the Gordon Gecko playbook.
[00:43:00]  Yeah, yeah, no, exactly.
[00:43:01]  That's like some shit you'd be like, you know, I actually don't know how money works, but like, you know, I know it never sleeps.
[00:43:06]  And so if you back in the day, they're like, we need you to invest in something.
[00:43:11]  This lady's going to blow you.
[00:43:13]  That like worked.
[00:43:14]  And now they're doing this now.
[00:43:15]  Absolutely.
[00:43:18]  But yeah, it's a little bit, it's a little bit old meets new, east meets west.
[00:43:23]  But then COVID hit and they fled Switzerland.
[00:43:26]  I feel like I'm like, it's weird that Switzerland would even care about that, right?
[00:43:30]  Don't they have mountains?
[00:43:31]  Can't you just put the walls up?
[00:43:33]  Nobody in, nobody out.
[00:43:34]  You know, it's like an island.
[00:43:36]  You know what's funny?
[00:43:37]  I got stuck in Switzerland for 10 days during COVID because I was flying back in 2021 from vacation in Greece and I tested positive in the airport and had to spend 10 days in Zurich.
[00:43:47]  It's really expensive.
[00:43:48]  It's so expensive.
[00:43:50]  They made you book your own hotel.
[00:43:52]  They were like, you have to spend 10 days in a hotel.
[00:43:55]  You can't leave the hotel and you have to get one.
[00:43:58]  They're going to deliver food to the door of your hotel.
[00:44:00]  And I was like, and I have to pay for it.
[00:44:01]  And they're like, yeah, of course.
[00:44:02]  I was like, and you guys are checking on this.
[00:44:03]  They're like, of course not.
[00:44:04]  So I was like, awesome.
[00:44:05]  And booked like a ski chalet somewhere in the countryside and had to take vacation.
[00:44:10]  Whoa.
[00:44:10]  Because I'm going to say, like, it's Switzerland, I've heard, is usurious in its prices.
[00:44:16]  Absolutely.
[00:44:16]  It's crazy.
[00:44:18]  And you're not allowed to tell anyone about them.
[00:44:19]  So they leave Switzerland and come back and get it.
[00:44:22]  Watch, that's a lot of Swiss.

=== Regulating Crypto Scams (13:55) ===

[00:44:24]  Yeah.
[00:44:25]  Because they seem to have leave a lot of former honeypotters high and dry.
[00:44:32]  Yeah.
[00:44:32]  Yeah.
[00:44:33]  They sort of like, you know, at a certain point, they are no longer in the Pangea fund business, having liquidated the fund, got into a number of like sort of there's a lot of litigation.
[00:44:48]  People feel like they've been robbed.
[00:44:52]  At least the fund is liquid, right?
[00:44:54]  Let me get into some of the specifics here, but it's like basically there was like a lot of people that, including some like really major Bitcoin investor figures like Roger Veer or somebody who's really big in crypto, basically put a lot of money in and never got it back.
[00:45:10]  And whether or not those funds, how much they actually were able to take out of it is like that's sort of unclear.
[00:45:19]  There's a lot of stuff involving kind of like paper returns that whether or not they actually, you know, were able to actualize those is a little unclear.
[00:45:28]  But it seems like, yeah, they took money out of the fund and people never got it back is the general sense of it.
[00:45:35]  And anyway, that's, yeah, it's sort of like early 2020s.
[00:45:39]  Then they, you know, Will ends up in Miami or Palm Beach.
[00:45:44]  Naturally.
[00:45:45]  Which is the perfect place for him.
[00:45:46]  Sure.
[00:45:47]  And I think he sort of, it's almost like you can sort of imagine this like global kind of like, and we've talked about this before, this, this sort of like global world of like sketchy 2020s like finance stuff.
[00:46:03]  Like all roads sort of leave through Miami eventually.
[00:46:07]  All pass it to Brickle.
[00:46:09]  Yeah.
[00:46:09]  And he's like totally a part of that.
[00:46:11]  And he's like racks up a bunch of he crashes a bunch of cars.
[00:46:17]  He's rented Lambos.
[00:46:19]  He gets involved in all sorts of like kind of getting like it was described to me as like he was he was part of a scene of crypto people who like they're conducting business while partying in a way that the two are like one and the same.
[00:46:38]  Like they're, you know, it's like people are like at a club doing lines and there is sort of deal flow, but it's also sort of like these are just like guys spending, you know, 50K in a night at some at like 11 or something like that.
[00:46:52]  Hold on.
[00:46:52]  I just need to pause right there.
[00:46:54]  By deal flow, you mean like they're making deals with each other?
[00:46:58]  Yeah.
[00:46:59]  I'm going to start using that.
[00:47:00]  Is that deal flow?
[00:47:01]  Deal flow.
[00:47:02]  Like, but about any sort of transaction that I have with anybody.
[00:47:06]  That's good.
[00:47:06]  Nicole, you're interrupting me.
[00:47:07]  You're doing deal flow at Sweet Green.
[00:47:10]  Yeah.
[00:47:10]  Sorry, guys, how long I'm doing deal flow on eBay right now?
[00:47:12]  I'm buying more Nazi poke chips.
[00:47:16]  But I mean, this is this is it's kind of there, of course, there's Miami in this story, but like, this is kind of all like all your stories you've done.
[00:47:27]  Well, except for the cult one, but it's like, right, it's like all of these people, Miami is their Israel.
[00:47:33]  You know what I mean?
[00:47:34]  Like, they have to go there and then just start doing more crimes.
[00:47:39]  But like, it's, it's, I mean, my God, the amount of deal flow that goes through 11 on like any given 9 a.m. is or any given morning at 9 a.m. is probably absurd.
[00:47:51]  All these guys just like blown out of their mind on coke.
[00:47:54]  It's cool because they don't really, it seems like none of them really, I mean, I don't know about the guys that Duplessis was hanging out with, but like all these people have these like fake companies, which is just they have a bunch of money, but are also criminals and somehow use the money they have to scam other people.
[00:48:09]  And all of it's like not real money.
[00:48:11]  Yes.
[00:48:11]  Because it's all like on paper.
[00:48:13]  Well, this is something that I think that Jen and I, my co-writer and I were really kind of interested in is like the world of crypto up until relatively recently was you know completely beset with frauds and scams at every level.
[00:48:32]  What happened recently?
[00:48:33]  No, but no, but what I'm saying is that and all of that was like largely kind of self-contained in this ecosystem of guys sort of like, oh, you know, I'm raising money for some token and then like the guy kind of runs off with it or it was sort of sketchy.
[00:48:47]  And it's like crypto guys scamming other crypto guys and it's financial.
[00:48:50]  And everyone just sort of accepted that as the cost of doing business because there's this like larger project that they're all engaged in, which is like, we're trying to bring about this sort of like new libertarian bology network state, whatever the fuck.
[00:49:02]  And this is right.
[00:49:04]  And it's like, this is the cost of doing business.
[00:49:05]  Like there's, there's, this is this new technology.
[00:49:07]  The whole point is there's no regulators.
[00:49:09]  It exists outside of the financial system.
[00:49:11]  So, you know, you're going to get scammed maybe.
[00:49:14]  And that's okay because we're all in it together.
[00:49:16]  And like, you know, it sucks if you lose money on something.
[00:49:19]  But like that, again, that's the whole point of it was to sort of exist outside of regulation.
[00:49:24]  And that was basically fine for a lot of people in the space until what has started happening now, which is like these guys are getting tortured.
[00:49:34]  And we're getting ahead of ourselves a bit, but in terms of the chronology, but I think that that is important is like the kind of low-grade scamminess of crypto writ large was not something that like people that everyone was just willing to accept that in a way that I think what's happening now,
[00:49:52]  they're not because it's like gone outside of the sort of sealed, hermetically sealed little world of like guys with like penguin coin ripping off guys with otter coin or whatever.
[00:50:06]  And now it's like, you know, seasoned teams of like Siriana style.
[00:50:12]  Like, you know.
[00:50:13]  Well, I mean, that also matches like escalation with the fucking, not just that it's no longer this sort of like self-contained fraud ecosystem, like you're saying, or like community, but the size and scale and price in the market.
[00:50:29]  I mean, at the time of the event in the article.
[00:50:34]  the kidnapping and all of that.
[00:50:36]  I mean, what the fuck was the price of Bitcoin?
[00:50:38]  Like 86 or 87K or some shit?
[00:50:41]  Like, you know, this is after the president of the United States runs a scam that these guys were fucking running in 2021 out of Miami.
[00:50:50]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:50:51]  Like, it is a whole new era.
[00:50:53]  Right.
[00:50:54]  And the price reflects that as well.
[00:50:57]  And suddenly this, I mean, the thing is the price gets that high and then everyone precarious, like knows inside.
[00:51:05]  They're like, this could be near top.
[00:51:07]  You know what I mean?
[00:51:08]  Maybe they don't think so.
[00:51:08]  Maybe they don't know, but they want to like, you know, protect whatever they got.
[00:51:11]  And suddenly the stakes get much higher, you know, as the like, the more kind of, you know, precarious the bubble gets.
[00:51:20]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:51:21]  And just the knowledge that has, I think, entered the kind of broader criminal consciousness, you know, throughout whatever underworld is out there that like there are a lot of people now walking around with millions of dollars on their phone.
[00:51:38]  in a way that was, I don't think, I just, yeah, Yeah.
[00:51:41]  And it's like that money is just, if you get it, then you have it.
[00:51:47]  It's not, I mean, this is the same thing.
[00:51:48]  Which, by the way, is an insane system to all our libertarians.
[00:51:52]  Right.
[00:51:52]  It really is the end point of libertarianism, which is like you're, it's like, okay, if you want to roll back the Enlightenment, you end up in the medieval era where you have like sort of like fortresses of princes robbing each other.
[00:52:10]  And there's no sort of central authority to do anything about that.
[00:52:14]  And there's no bank that can reverse a fraudulent transaction.
[00:52:17]  You know what I mean?
[00:52:17]  That's sort of like what crypto promises is this world outside of regulation.
[00:52:21]  And this is the downside of that.
[00:52:23]  Yeah, I mean, that's one of the sort of like that's, I guess, the push-pull that you see with crypto, right?
[00:52:29]  Is like the lack of kind of regulation or just the fact that it's outside of just the actual financial system, although not so much anymore, but it still is in some sense.
[00:52:42]  You know, there's some benefits to that, which is that you can, you know, rob and steal from people and do all these, you know, scams, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:52:50]  But then there's some downsides is that people can rob and steal from you and do scams to you as well.
[00:52:54]  And the whole thing with crypto is it's like it's, you know, if it's in your wallet, it's your crypto.
[00:52:58]  And it's not in your wallet.
[00:52:58]  It's not crypto.
[00:53:00]  who might not you know be like your friend from the crypto um conference or whatever like the guy on twitter with like the you know pudgy penguin profile picture it might actually just be like a hardened thief who has identified a relatively soft target which is like a guy walking around with millions of dollars on his phone like that's yeah I mean,
[00:53:24]  the reason we found out about the Zort thing in the first place because we were going to do a episode about, I think one part of the episode was going to be like about how many fingers have been cut off in France this year in a year period.
[00:53:36]  It's more than you think.
[00:53:37]  It's like six or seven, at least that we know of.
[00:53:39]  Not on a single hand.
[00:53:40]  Not on a single, no, on different fingers for different people.
[00:53:43]  Yeah, I mean, I have the stat, I think in this story, I want to say there's been 33 crypto kidnappings this year.
[00:53:49]  Yeah.
[00:53:49]  And that's a lot.
[00:53:50]  Yeah.
[00:53:51]  And again, those are literally the ones that we know of.
[00:53:54]  There are a lot in France.
[00:53:55]  There are a lot of France.
[00:53:57]  France is a hot spot for us.
[00:53:58]  But like, again, those are the ones that we know of because one party, the party who got kidnapped, called the police.
[00:54:05]  Whereas there's probably more people who are both sides of that.
[00:54:09]  Because some of the people who got robbed in France, for instance, are like legitimate crypto people rather than like gangsters, like, you know, also thieves or whatever.
[00:54:18]  But there are probably a shit ton of these that are like both sides of them are criminals and bandits.
[00:54:25]  And so, you know, you don't really call the police about that.
[00:54:27]  You can maybe do nothing or take it in your own hands.
[00:54:31]  Yeah, I mean, this is, this is, this is the thing.
[00:54:33]  It's like, it is really like if we all walked around with all of our money on us in, or had it buried, you either have all your money on you at one time or you have it buried in a like box at your house with a key, maybe, but a key that is also in your house.
[00:54:51]  And it's, it's kind of an absurd way to store all of your money.
[00:54:56]  Because again, all mine is in money.
[00:54:58]  But some of these guys are in little things that are not money, but that can be exchanged for money, but they can also be stolen a lot easier and are not FDIC insured.
[00:55:06]  So Du Plessis is he eventually kind of runs out of money, it seems like.
[00:55:15]  Yeah, I mean, Du Plessis is he's he's just sort of like it's it's not clear that he is necessarily running out of money per se.
[00:55:27]  I mean, he's just like bouncing around between a lot of like different sort of like projects.
[00:55:34]  And there's, there's this like kind of undercurrent of at times he seems broke.
[00:55:40]  At times he seems rich.
[00:55:42]  It's hard to say.
[00:55:42]  I mean, sometimes he's asking people for money because he's like, you know, and he is like telling friends he might just sell his Rolex, but he's like, but then I'll just buy a new one.
[00:55:50]  Then at other times he's like, you know, also kind of living large.
[00:55:55]  I mean, it seems like he's the way it was described by one person also, to me is like these guys are just used to living in this way where it's like, even if you do have money, you just don't pay as much as possible and like sort of demand someone sue you.
[00:56:10]  That's like classic rich guys.
[00:56:12]  They don't pay for it.
[00:56:13]  So it's so it's like, yeah, exactly.
[00:56:16]  It's, I mean, I mean, the classic Donald Trump mode of doing business, but it's just like you go through life sort of, no matter how much money you do or don't have, you just like rip everyone off and dare them to do anything about it.
[00:56:28]  I mean, that was the thing.
[00:56:29]  That was the similarity between this and the Zord stuff too is like they're both sued by landlords because they just never paid or like, you know, or like, you know, were evicted and just destroyed the house.
[00:56:39]  And it's like, I don't know.
[00:56:41]  Like, I mean, I've definitely, I mean, I know people have been evicted.
[00:56:43]  I've been evicted, but like, I've never been evicted with like a $50,000 debt to like a, like $75,000 to like a fucking Malibu, you know, house or whatever.
[00:56:55]  Like, these people are just like, and when I got evicted, it was, it was for cause and it didn't work, but it wasn't for lack of payment.
[00:57:03]  But the, uh, like, these guys just like, again, it is the classic thing.
[00:57:08]  They just don't pay.
[00:57:10]  And they're like, yeah, fuck it.
[00:57:11]  Like, I'll see you in court.
[00:57:12]  And then also not show up to that.
[00:57:14]  Yeah.
[00:57:15]  And just like test the system.
[00:57:16]  And to be fair, they usually win.
[00:57:19]  Like, and by win, I don't mean they win their court case, but they kind of just like outlast the system, like the slow moving churn of the system.
[00:57:29]  And so that by then they just fucking move on to the next thing.
[00:57:32]  Well, it's interesting.
[00:57:33]  I mean, there is this sort of, there is this kind of, I don't know, similarities or at least a spiritual connection between like the more outlaw elements of the lump and proletariat and the big bourgeois because both of them are just like kind of like, nah, it doesn't apply to me.
[00:57:50]  You know, you're sort of remove yourself from the social contract on both ends of that.
[00:57:56]  I mean, I think it's like part of it is just like suing people is expensive.
[00:58:00]  And it's just almost always if you can get someone in a position where they have to sue you, it's just better for them to settle with you and then you come out ahead given that you don't have to pay your rent or whatever.
[00:58:10]  Yeah, but no one should sue anyone, I think, to me personally.
[00:58:14]  And I think that I would say all of anyone listening to this episode would agree.

=== Paranoid Security Practices (14:27) ===

[00:58:20]  When does he come into contact with his schizophrenic, well, I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth here or thoughts in anyone's head, but with his future partner in kidnapping Waltz?
[00:58:33]  So they seem to have been introduced, in fact, by Michael Carteron, who would later figure in the story as their kidnapping victim, allegedly.
[00:58:47]  but he was somebody who they knew who had been, you know, I think all these people are all kind of floating around in like this world of like, you know, crypto, wealthy crypto people working on various projects, getting VC funding from this sort of small circle of funds and all sort of like floating around together.
[00:59:10]  And Carteron knew John Woltz initially and then had also encountered Duplessis and then apparently he kind of initially connected them.
[00:59:23]  We don't know too much about how like the kind of early phases of like what actually made them become so close, but we do know that by 2024 they were actually physically spending a lot of time together.
[00:59:35]  And during that year, Du Plessis had been in, seems to have been in jail in Switzerland.
[00:59:44]  I mean, prosecutors said that there was a essentially a domestic violence case that was not, that was investigated, but not, he wasn't charged in Switzerland.
[00:59:54]  So he gets out of prison or gets out of jail there, and he ends up spending time with Woltz, who it's unclear to me if they had hung out in person before then, but they seem to have been floating around and knew each other.
[01:00:09]  But they're spending time together in Kentucky where Woltz is from.
[01:00:15]  Woltz is a really fascinating character in his own right.
[01:00:18]  I mean, he's this sort of like, you know, he's from small town, Kentucky.
[01:00:23]  He's like, he's his dad's like a respected local doctor.
[01:00:30]  But he was really, really early on Bitcoin, earlier than Duplessis.
[01:00:34]  He's like a guy.
[01:00:36]  and was just this like he's kind of an evangelist too a little bit like kind of He was a true believer.
[01:00:45]  Absolutely.
[01:00:45]  He was especially, I think, interested in more of like a kind of, you know, it seems like Duplessis is really coming at it from this like classic flashy VC investment angle.
[01:00:57]  Woltz is much, I mean, I want to say he's much kind of nerdier about it.
[01:01:02]  He's much more interested in it as this, in terms of like the kind of super privacy oriented like security protocols.
[01:01:11]  And I think that's also an archetype among Bitcoin people is the kind of quote-unquote Bitcoin maxi guy who's obsessed with privacy and security and being anonymous, you know, used sort of pseudonyms mostly.
[01:01:26]  He was involved in a crypto project called Grin that was all about like, I mean, it was just, it was just about basically very secure transactions.
[01:01:38]  And he and Carteron had been interested, both interested in something that is called D VPNs, which is basically putting a VPN on the blockchain, more or less.
[01:01:49]  So again, the overall thrust of it is really interested in privacy and security.
[01:01:54]  What the fuck, why are we talking about it?
[01:01:56]  Why would you need a VPN on the blockchain?
[01:01:58]  What does that mean?
[01:02:00]  I'm sorry.
[01:02:01]  No, wait.
[01:02:02]  Doesn't that, but the blockchain would, there would be a, like a record of everything if it's on the blockchain.
[01:02:08]  No, Liz.
[01:02:08]  This is above, I honestly like, don't understand it super well.
[01:02:12]  Science.
[01:02:12]  Scientists don't know what the blockchain is yet.
[01:02:14]  Blockchain is just something that you sort of invoke.
[01:02:16]  No, it's like if it, if there's a record.
[01:02:18]  Maybe I'm even misstating it by saying it's on the blockchain.
[01:02:21]  It's the gist of it is that it's decentralized VPN where it's like, I guess the theory is like a VPN, you're entrusting some sort of entity, some company to oversee your VPN.
[01:02:38]  And this is like just, you know, it's decentralized.
[01:02:41]  It's like it's in the hands of a bunch of people in the same way as any kind of crypto project is to make it even more secure.
[01:02:49]  DVPN does sound like a weird thing.
[01:02:53]  Even though it gets to be within crypto, I think this is like extraordinarily niche stuff.
[01:02:57]  I will say it's great.
[01:02:59]  I mean, the thing that I love about this sort of portion of the story is that we kind of move into, like you're saying, this other very important subculture or like part of the entire like Bitcoin world where it's these guys that are,
[01:03:14]  like you say, obsessed with privacy or like working on these projects that are more in line with the kind of like more utopian or and political side of the of the kind of large-scale Bitcoin adoption project.
[01:03:31]  But it's also like getting into then local governments, which is like such a big part of the story.
[01:03:38]  Like I was remembering even the Matt Gates.
[01:03:41]  Remember we did the Matt Gates episode and like such a scammer for the books.
[01:03:49]  I loved that story.
[01:03:51]  But you know, it's like his, he hired his boy who was like running a so such a statement where they were just like looting local government.
[01:03:59]  Doll Greenberg.
[01:04:00]  Yes, to do like Bitcoin mining contracts or whatever it is and pitching all of this sort of like, what if we put the state government on the blockchain?
[01:04:10]  And you have a bunch of like dumbass legislators that are like, that sounds important and like work that we need to do.
[01:04:16]  And like that is also such a big part of the Bitcoin story post 20, I'd say 2021, 22.
[01:04:27]  And like Wolts is such a like, you know, such an important part of that story, I feel like.
[01:04:34]  Yeah, I think it's true.
[01:04:36]  It's like it's you get.
[01:04:38]  It's like you said, like there's these, these sort of multiple sort of like little kind of movements within the larger crypto thing, and on one side is this sort of Brickle Miami Lambo, you know yeah um, flexing nightclub side and but, but the things are there, but they're also, I think it it's important that they're sort of intertwined in a significant way, where that brings in a lot of the dumb money and then and and it brings in the retail and it brings in you know,
[01:05:06]  you it ends up turning into the sort of thing that your like uncle knows about.
[01:05:10]  At the same time, like, you have these guys that are really ideologically committed to this sort of libertarian project, like people that are, you know, it looks like you're Peter Thiel, Bology, like these people for whom it represents this ability to kind of exit from collective society, you know what I mean?
[01:05:31]  Right, and that does involve getting involved in local government or in theory building their own sort of like little micro countries in South America and whatever.
[01:05:41]  and and and being off the map and anonymous and and I think there's a lot of paranoia that goes into that it's.
[01:05:49]  It's like a really it's.
[01:05:50]  It's a deeply paranoid mindset, not without good reason, but just this, this idea of like we are, you know, like you need to.
[01:06:02]  It's.
[01:06:02]  It's like paranoia of like being in, of like against the government, against the idea of like people stealing your, of having your money in a bank of any kind of centralized authority and you're trying to carve out your own little sort of fortress, which then, of course, can also make like we've been saying, like make you vulnerable, but at the same time, it's like those.
[01:06:22]  It's.
[01:06:22]  It's totally unreal.
[01:06:23]  It's a different kind of person from from the from the Board APE thing um well it's, it's.
[01:06:28]  It's funny too because, like I mean, their whole thing is yeah, like this exit or being able to sort of um, at least extricate your finances from like larger societies taxes, but like you know also, you know in sort of service of this Bellagey network state kind of bullshit.
[01:06:47]  I feel like a lot of the luster of that, once retail like really got in, has gone or sort of integrated into like how bitcoin is now, although those people still exist, that stuff is still like prominent in the scene, but it's not.
[01:07:01]  I would say the majority of people who hold bitcoin have no, oh yeah well, it's.
[01:07:04]  I mean, it's also, it's really technical and it's really it's.
[01:07:07]  It's much more like for people that are, that are like you know, that are programmers, that that understand this stuff on a level that your average person buying this is a speculative.
[01:07:16]  Also, the average person buying bitcoin doesn't want to leave society.
[01:07:19]  They want to buy Lamborghini yeah, but also like that sort of tracks against like Wolts's arc, because at a certain point, he basically kind of like gives up not gives up, but like or gives way for all of his sort of like you know beliefs, so-called beliefs in like you know the security protocols, or like the larger project or whatever it is where he's just like I mean, by the end of him and Duplessis getting real close,
[01:07:46]  writing up sort of Quasi-schizo manifestos on like stealing crypto.
[01:07:52]  Yeah, I mean I think that, like when it comes to Woltz, you know, what's interesting about him is like he um seems to have been, by all accounts, like a sort of super normal professional guy um and who had, who had just been involved in all these projects but was just genuinely kind of interested in security and privacy, and then somewhere in there like something shifted and he,
[01:08:22]  you know, we start to see in his ex-girlfriends um sort of filing for a restraining order, like him speaking in this incredibly paranoid way and talking about being um, you know, tracked by Chinese spies.
[01:08:37]  I mean, he's going around talking about—he has this obsession with China and is telling people that he's, like, disrupting sort of foreign terrorist networks.
[01:08:45]  And, yeah, I mean, I think it's, like, it is in this zone of person and people with these interests, it's, like, not that far of a leap from just, like, thinking about security for whatever kind of, like, larger political biology.
[01:09:07]  type project, and and and libertarian sort of type project, into just like actually being really paranoid about security.
[01:09:14]  Yeah, in a level that you know, in his case as I mean his ex-girlfriend would describe him like um, thinking that like there was like Chinese spies at a Chinese restaurant they were at in Kentucky.
[01:09:28]  Yeah, I mean, that's that's the so it's like they're living out there in Kentucky.
[01:09:33]  Like Dupless moves in with them.
[01:09:35]  And Walt has like, what is like $100 million in Bitcoin?
[01:09:40]  So these guys are like now fucking loaded.
[01:09:42]  Especially where that takes you in Kentucky.
[01:09:45]  Yeah, I mean, they bought this massive mansion for like a million five.
[01:09:51]  Oh, yeah, it's Kentucky.
[01:09:53]  Right?
[01:09:53]  I mean, it's yeah, it's like a small town in Kentucky.
[01:09:55]  Yeah.
[01:09:55]  It's cheap, you know, relatively.
[01:09:57]  And they kidnap a guy out there.
[01:09:59]  So they have a, there's someone that they, that they knew from the crypto world, this guy Michael Maurer, who shortly after they buy this mansion at the beginning of this year, goes out to stay with them, I guess.
[01:10:13]  And he, so his, his mom goes to the front desk of a holiday inn in Paducah, Kentucky, and said, and she's, you know, speaks, doesn't speak English, speaks German, is like, my son is texting me that he like is being held for ransom for his Bitcoin by his friends who are armed.
[01:10:39]  Yeah.
[01:10:39]  Shout out, Paducah.
[01:10:40]  And it's unclear.
[01:10:42]  I don't think he pressed charges.
[01:10:43]  I don't think like it's unclear what the kind of like legal ramification of that case is at this point, but that's that sort of foreshadows what then happens months later in New York City with another European crypto connection, Michael Carter on.
[01:11:01]  But, yeah, they, you know, they were, like, they were living this sort of crazy lifestyle out there where, like, the cops, when they showed up at the mansion, they found, like, all these, they were just, like, the front lawn was, like, covered in shells, you know?
[01:11:17]  They were just, like...
[01:11:17]  Yeah, you said 300 blackout.
[01:11:19]  Yeah.
[01:11:19]  Yeah, just they were just sort of like a whisper.
[01:11:24]  It's it's very, it's very, we shot that together, me and Chomsky and Reno.
[01:11:29]  I mean, there's a, there's a section in here because like DuPless and Waltz are like in business together, but they're also seemingly like together.
[01:11:38]  They have this secret plan where they think they're CIA agent, Robin Hood style people.
[01:11:45]  But you have a scene in there where they go visit Peter Brandt Jr. in Palm Beach and they take a private jet back with him to no, not with Peter Brandt Jr.
[01:11:55]  Oh, with some people he introduces them to.
[01:11:58]  Yeah.
[01:11:59]  And I mean, it's one of the lines in here, it says, as soon as the jet took off, Waltz and Duplessis started talking and then quote, talking about probably the most insane shit I've ever heard in my fucking life, someone who took the trip says.
[01:12:13]  Duplessis says that he had been a participant in MKUltra, this secretive military experiment on psychedelics that ended decades before he was born.
[01:12:20]  And that he was a CIA operative who was found at a very early age.
[01:12:24]  Then the conversation turns to a German terrorist he and Weltz had recently encountered on their property.
[01:12:29]  But Plessy said they had to take him out to the farmhouse and kept him there for about six weeks.
[01:12:34]  Then they said they took all his crypto to defend the front lines of America and got rid of him.
[01:12:39]  So it's like these guys are like, I mean, I don't think that Duplessis was a secret MKUltra CIA-trained baby.

=== Six to Eight Hours High (05:14) ===

[01:12:47]  No.
[01:12:48]  But it's like these guys are sort of taking one thing that maybe did happen, which is they seem to have held up a guy they knew at gunpoint and maybe stolen his crypto.
[01:12:57]  You know, at least made his mom go to Paducah from Germany, I suppose.
[01:13:02]  She was already out there.
[01:13:03]  Oh, okay.
[01:13:04]  She was already in Paducah.
[01:13:07]  To all the mothers listening to this, if your son is like, we got to go to Paducah to hang out with these guys, I know, don't go.
[01:13:14]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:13:15]  Like, don't.
[01:13:15]  If she wasn't there, that would have been bad.
[01:13:18]  That's true.
[01:13:19]  That's true.
[01:13:19]  But like, they're taking these things, this thing, this one thing that's like a kernel of truth to it, which is they did seemingly maybe hold up a guy and rob him to be this, like, there's this clear narrative crafting that's going on with them.
[01:13:33]  And I was talking about this earlier.
[01:13:34]  It's like these guys, I'm assuming at this point, are like snizzed out of their mind on Coke.
[01:13:40]  They're obviously on crazy drugs.
[01:13:43]  They're certainly doing a lot of cocaine at this point in Kentucky.
[01:13:46]  Because here's the deal with cocaine, right?
[01:13:48]  Here's the deal with it.
[01:13:54]  We've all done it.
[01:13:55]  We all have probably enjoyed ourselves on it.
[01:13:59]  But I don't think anyone I know has been able to have constant access to cocaine and large amounts of cocaine.
[01:14:07]  So, like, if I've ever, I've known some Cokeheads in my life, but to me, a Cokehead is just a guy that, whenever you go out, he's like, let's get a bag or something.
[01:14:16]  Very rarely is it like, do I know somebody who's like doing Coke at like two in the afternoon all day every day because Coke is relatively expensive.
[01:14:23]  You know, it's like not a drug that you gotta, it's not like heroin, which has some legs.
[01:14:28]  You got like six to eight, eight is pushing it, but you got like six hours of being high in there for a little bit.
[01:14:33]  Cocaine, you got to keep doing it all the time.
[01:14:35]  Also, there's no way they're doing like bad Coke in Kentucky.
[01:14:40]  I mean, I'm sure that's the thing.
[01:14:42]  It's like they have all that money.
[01:14:45]  Like, and probably you're not going to keep doing it.
[01:14:47]  I don't know.
[01:14:47]  No, I agree.
[01:14:48]  They're probably doing, which is, I will say, good Coke is a different experience than all the other Coke I've ever done in my life, except for the one time I did Good Coke, which I understood Gordon Gecko after that, even though I'd never seen the movie, but I got it.
[01:15:00]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:15:02]  But I was just like, I got to do some deal.
[01:15:05]  I got to get into deal flow right now.
[01:15:07]  I got to get into deal flow.
[01:15:08]  It was actually the only time I did good Coke was right near this.
[01:15:12]  I don't want to say we're, it was very near this studio at a at a little punk house that used to be around here.
[01:15:19]  And it was a surprise that it was even there.
[01:15:21]  But these guys are snizz out of their mind and seemingly like creating this like fantasy world that they live in where they're secret agents.
[01:15:29]  Yeah.
[01:15:33]  It seems like that was the yeah, I mean, that's that's the kind of thing they would they would talk to talk to people about.
[01:15:40]  Like whenever they met them was they would sort of like start spinning out these like fantastical narratives in which they were working for this or that three-letter agency disrupting, you know, foreign pedophile or terrorist networks and hacking, yeah, like hacking people in foreign countries.
[01:16:04]  And yeah, this as they're kind of dressed in this like cosplay of sort of operators, like they're, they're, they, they've got like fatigues on.
[01:16:15]  They're walking around their mansion with, you know, both of them have just like numerous guns.
[01:16:23]  At one point you described they're like walking around in fatigues in their mansion with like 100 round mags and ARs on their backs.
[01:16:31]  Cutting open bags of Coke with like a buck knife and, you know, like staying up all night.
[01:16:36]  Like, you know, I think there's a sleep deprivation piece of this too.
[01:16:39]  Sure.
[01:16:40]  But yeah, and there's this sort of like fantasy cosplay thing that seems to be going on where they're like dressing like these operators and talking as if they're these operators.
[01:16:50]  And, you know, I don't think anybody who is experienced in this stuff would have even for a second thought that this was real, but it was like, I think, probably for them, pretty fun to do.
[01:17:01]  Yeah.
[01:17:02]  I do find this to be a very fascinating and kind of exotic investigation of male friendship.
[01:17:10]  Yeah.
[01:17:10]  Is this something that like you and your boy, you get the manch, you're in the hinterlands and like it's time to get guns and drugs, but it's just like you guys hanging out and like making up stories doing story time?
[01:17:28]  I mean, there's some crucial elements to that that I've never experienced, such as friends, hinterlands, or manch, but I don't think so.
[01:17:38]  I mean, I think, I don't know.
[01:17:39]  I mean, does this appeal to you?
[01:17:43]  I mean, not the specifics.
[01:17:45]  There's something boyish about it.
[01:17:46]  There is something.
[01:17:47]  Yeah, I mean, it's like you're having a sleepover at your friend's house who has like the really cool, you know.
[01:17:53]  Cocaine.
[01:17:54]  Yeah.
[01:17:55]  Like the really good like red vines and diet cocaine.
[01:17:59]  It does seem boyish.
[01:18:00]  But you know what?

=== Google's Boyish Toys (03:10) ===

[01:18:01]  They're opening up like packages at this house that they've just ordered of like, you know, new like laser gun sites.
[01:18:11]  It's toys.
[01:18:11]  It's like your rich friend who has like sick toys.
[01:18:16]  It's a big sleepover.
[01:18:17]  Yeah, the lasers are not.
[01:18:19]  That's so interesting to me.
[01:18:20]  Well, at a certain point, they end up in Manhattan.
[01:18:23]  They leave Kentucky.
[01:18:24]  Yeah.
[01:18:26]  And it gets even crazier.
[01:18:29]  Yeah, they rent it.
[01:18:30]  They rent it.
[01:18:30]  I will say they rent a manse here in Manhattan in Prince Street.
[01:18:36]  In what is it?
[01:18:37]  Nolita?
[01:18:39]  What is Nolita?
[01:18:40]  No, Soho.
[01:18:40]  It's not Lolita.
[01:18:42]  $75K a month.
[01:18:45]  That's on Prince Street.
[01:18:48]  Yeah, I mean, it's like right there in the thick of it.
[01:18:54]  Around the corner from Cafe Jeton.
[01:18:56]  It's like a few blocks from Broadway and Soho.
[01:19:00]  It's like, I mean, I used to live a few blocks away.
[01:19:04]  I still live pretty close.
[01:19:05]  It's like it's right next to this deli.
[01:19:09]  I mean, it's right next to that.
[01:19:11]  You know, it's right next to Prince Street Pizza.
[01:19:13]  It's like really right in the thick of the kind of tourist area of Nolita.
[01:19:17]  And they, first they, they kind of bounced around between a few different luxury hotels.
[01:19:21]  They were at the Amman, at the Mercer, kind of get kicked out of some of these, and they end up renting this insane.
[01:19:29]  Oh, yeah.
[01:19:30]  They're two blocks from the Museum of Ice Cream.
[01:19:33]  Dude, I'll be real.
[01:19:34]  I hate walking around there.
[01:19:35]  Yeah, it's a fucking nightmare.
[01:19:37]  It's actually, it makes me touristy.
[01:19:39]  It makes me feel paddock when I walk around that motherfucker.
[01:19:43]  Yeah.
[01:19:43]  Because you can't move.
[01:19:44]  That's how I feel on Canal Street.
[01:19:45]  Yeah.
[01:19:46]  Yeah.
[01:19:46]  I know.
[01:19:46]  I mean, I've been buying purses there on Canal.
[01:19:51]  Yeah, sure.
[01:19:52]  You and a billion people.
[01:19:53]  Yeah, me.
[01:19:54]  Yeah.
[01:19:54]  Me and a billion people.
[01:19:56]  We like our Mew Mew bags.
[01:19:58]  Yeah.
[01:19:59]  And I'd be purchasing them there.
[01:20:00]  I mean, this is.
[01:20:02]  75K to live near the Museum of Ice Cream is tough for me to swallow.
[01:20:08]  But that's because you're lactose intolerant.
[01:20:10]  Exactly.
[01:20:10]  That's precisely because I haven't drank enough rock or kefir milk yet.
[01:20:15]  But yeah.
[01:20:17]  And so these guys kind of transform it into a party pad.
[01:20:21]  And they're still like, they don't have a business, right?
[01:20:26]  They're just like here on business, but they like move to New York.
[01:20:30]  It seems like just to party more.
[01:20:34]  They, you know, they would talk to people about doing business in a general sense.
[01:20:40]  What does that mean?
[01:20:41]  They wouldn't have to do it.
[01:20:41]  They still have a business.
[01:20:42]  Still flow.
[01:20:43]  Steel flow.
[01:20:44]  Yeah.
[01:20:45]  And that's why you're never, you're not going to make it.
[01:20:47]  You don't understand.
[01:20:49]  I am.
[01:20:50]  You're right.
[01:20:51]  Actually, if I was allowed access to cocaine again, 11 years sober tonight.
[01:20:59]  Tonight?
[01:21:00]  Well, at midnight.
[01:21:02]  Tomorrow, I guess is another way to say that.
[01:21:04]  But if I was allowed cocaine, access to cocaine right now, this podcast would be five to X Rogan.

=== Party More Than Business (15:06) ===

[01:21:12]  I don't think that's true.
[01:21:13]  It'd be five to one.
[01:21:13]  That's exactly what he wants.
[01:21:14]  You're right.
[01:21:14]  I don't think he wants to do a lot of cocaine.
[01:21:16]  I don't think that's true.
[01:21:17]  I don't think that's true either.
[01:21:18]  It'd be 10x Rogan.
[01:21:19]  It'd be 10x Rogan.
[01:21:20]  It'd be Rogan Candace.
[01:21:23]  So when we say that everything gets crazy in New York when they move here, I mean, it really does.
[01:21:31]  The little details in this portion of the story are almost like too much for me.
[01:21:37]  I'm going to just start here.
[01:21:40]  Tefarian guests of Plessy and Waltz relied on their new assistant, Morgan O'Connor.
[01:21:45]  I love this guy.
[01:21:47]  A well-connected club rat and former model known for his striking look, white with waist-length dreadlocks.
[01:21:54]  I will say this right now.
[01:21:56]  Google Morgan O'Connor right now.
[01:21:59]  First of all, what are we doing here?
[01:22:03]  He looks like there's like he looks like someone I'm like trying to remember who, but he like looks like a character in a movie to me.
[01:22:11]  Looks like Battlefield Earth a little bit.
[01:22:14]  So they get him and another guy, Charlie Zakur, who is like on a Bravo reality show.
[01:22:24]  Yeah, that was like one of the first things I heard about this like after the news broke because he was like wrapped up in this.
[01:22:31]  What show?
[01:22:31]  He was like on a Real Housewives spin-off show?
[01:22:34]  Yeah, it's this new Bravo show called Next Gen that is sort of like an attempt to create a new Real Housewives-esque show starring 20-somethings in New York.
[01:22:47]  That's not going to happen.
[01:22:48]  Some of them are the kids of Real Housewives.
[01:22:53]  Some of them are not.
[01:22:54]  But they're, yeah, I don't know.
[01:22:57]  But he's on the new season.
[01:22:59]  It was filmed before all this was filmed last year, but he's him and Charlie.
[01:23:04]  I'm sorry, him and Morgan kind of grew up together as these like, you know, they both dated Lindsay Lohan when they were younger.
[01:23:11]  They're kind of on the gossip girl type New York City private high school clubbing circuit.
[01:23:20]  Morgan's also really tapped in and he also grew up in Palm Beach.
[01:23:24]  So he kind of knows, knows all of the sort of the Palm Beach set of people.
[01:23:29]  I mean, Peter Brandt's also between back and forth between Palm Beach and New York.
[01:23:33]  But yeah, I mean, these are just sort of like, these are club kids.
[01:23:37]  Yeah.
[01:23:38]  And Will and John, like, they have this money and they have this like drive to party, but they don't actually know how to do that really.
[01:23:47]  Or like they don't have the connection.
[01:23:48]  Yeah, they like get, I feel like this happens.
[01:23:51]  They were just bros, like doing like fantasy cosplay in their manch in Kentucky.
[01:23:56]  And now they're in Nolita and they got to hire club rats to bring them girls.
[01:24:00]  In their defense, in their defense, and we kind of skipped over this part.
[01:24:02]  Don't have to go back, but Du Plessis also dated Carolyn by Caroline Biden when he was prior in LA.
[01:24:08]  So he's, you know, he's a little bit of partying himself, but they're like, I feel like rich people do this stuff where they like basically buy a connected, a connection, right?
[01:24:19]  Like, it's like getting a fixer when you're in Kosovo or whatever.
[01:24:22]  So they have like a party fixer for them.
[01:24:25]  And they're like, I want you to take us to all the hottest clubs, get all the hottest girls, and like make sure that we're partying every fucking night.
[01:24:33]  Are they paying these guys?
[01:24:36]  I don't know that it was like explicitly like, yeah, I mean, yeah, I think so.
[01:24:43]  I think in certain ways at certain times, I don't know the specifics.
[01:24:46]  But yeah, I mean, I think it was essentially, it was like you said, it was a straightforward business arrangement of like we want to have tables at clubs and we want hot girls there and we want and you guys can provide that.
[01:25:02]  And it was like pretty straightforward.
[01:25:05]  Yeah, I mean, it was, it's, it's like you say, it's like fixer for this world they're just not in.
[01:25:09]  Like they're just not, you know, it's not like it's, I think, especially hard to gain access to buying sections at clubs if you can afford it.
[01:25:17]  But like, you know, these, these guys know which clubs, they, they know who to invite.
[01:25:21]  They can kind of just do it all for them.
[01:25:22]  It's like plug and play.
[01:25:23]  They can fill the table.
[01:25:24]  Yeah.
[01:25:25]  Now, this is tale as old at time.
[01:25:27]  I mean, it's not, like you're saying, it's not like that crazy.
[01:25:31]  But usually when that happens, it's like, oh, maybe they go running around to the clubs.
[01:25:35]  They see like, who are the girls we know?
[01:25:38]  Blah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
[01:25:39]  Oh, like, you know, her and her friend.
[01:25:42]  I know them from way back, whatever.
[01:25:44]  Like, kind of make a call out.
[01:25:46]  But it's 2025 when this is happening, 2024, 2025.
[01:25:53]  And things are a little different.
[01:25:54]  And so they go to Brandy Melville.
[01:25:56]  Brandy Melville.
[01:25:57]  Brandy Melville, the hottest club in New York City.
[01:26:01]  Yeah.
[01:26:02]  So more or less.
[01:26:05]  I mean, they, they, so Charlie is knows a sort of social scene of women in their late teens, early 20s, a number of whom work or used to work at Brandy Melville and brings them around to these parties, basically.
[01:26:26]  I want to say this is one of my favorite lines, I think, I've ever even read in a magazine piece.
[01:26:36]  Not to psycho dick or nothing, but you didn't say it.
[01:26:39]  Sometimes he dropped by the store just to hang out.
[01:26:41]  It's about Charlie, leading one young employee to ask herself, What's an unknown at Brandy?
[01:26:47]  That's what they say when I walk in.
[01:26:49]  What's an unknown at Brandy?
[01:26:51]  That's a great question.
[01:26:52]  I understand.
[01:26:53]  Listen, I understand that Charlie Zakora is not indicted here, but I would rather be facing life in prison for kidnapping than to read in the pages magazine that some girl at this Brandy Melville that I've been hanging out with referred to me as unk to a reporter.
[01:27:13]  Not just unknown, an unknown, which is worse.
[01:27:16]  What's an unknown?
[01:27:17]  What's this?
[01:27:19]  You're not even unknown to her.
[01:27:21]  You're not even unkn to her.
[01:27:22]  You're not even her unknown.
[01:27:24]  You're just an unknown.
[01:27:26]  An unknown.
[01:27:27]  You're just an unknown, out-the-door unknown.
[01:27:30]  It's tough.
[01:27:30]  I mean, these guys don't even seem that old.
[01:27:34]  Yeah, I think Charlie is.
[01:27:34]  Well, they're very young at Brandy.
[01:27:36]  Oh, he's 30?
[01:27:37]  Okay, that makes me feel a little better.
[01:27:39]  Yeah, they're very young at Brandy.
[01:27:40]  Brandy Melville is a, listen, obviously we're sponsored by them.
[01:27:44]  I had to dope Brandy every single day.
[01:27:48]  But it is completely passed me by.
[01:27:50]  Like, I don't even know what I guess I was a little surprised that models all worked there.
[01:27:55]  I thought they had jobs modeling.
[01:27:57]  I mean, I think it's like what you were saying.
[01:27:58]  It's the new American apparel.
[01:28:00]  Yeah.
[01:28:01]  Yeah, that's true.
[01:28:02]  And two beautiful women worked at the San Francisco American Apparel.
[01:28:06]  I'll say that.
[01:28:07]  And my boy's brother robbed that motherfucker.
[01:28:12]  He did.
[01:28:12]  I mean, sorry, he did.
[01:28:13]  Not just that one.
[01:28:15]  Okay, so tell us about these parties they're throwing.
[01:28:17]  Yeah, I mean, they're throwing very regularly having these crazy after parties at this crib, which they've sort of turned into a club.
[01:28:28]  They have like, you know, security on staff, some of whom are off-duty, NYPD, some of whom are on Eric Adams' security detail.
[01:28:39]  Speaking of unks.
[01:28:40]  Yeah, seriously.
[01:28:44]  And yeah, they're just like, you know, some people I talk to describe the parties as like kind of awkward.
[01:28:52]  Like there were like just like a lot of girls there and like a couple guys.
[01:28:57]  And, you know, it's like a lot of people there.
[01:28:59]  It's not exactly, you know, this isn't like necessarily a super tight social scene.
[01:29:03]  These are people that have sort of been brought there by these club promoters, basically.
[01:29:08]  It's like how I'm at the killers.
[01:29:12]  Will is often DJing his own parties.
[01:29:15]  John sort of tends to often sort of keeps to himself.
[01:29:19]  I mean, he'll sort of go up in his room, like put on dubstep by himself, chain smoke.
[01:29:26]  Look at swords, I imagine.
[01:29:28]  But, you know, they're going on until the early morning, and there's elements of it that like, you know, there's a sort of blurred line around like what is and is not sort of prostitution happening here.
[01:29:43]  Like there are straightforwardly escorts there, but there's also sort of young women who are not escorts are being sort of given money sometimes.
[01:29:55]  Women who sleep with Will are given bags and shoes.
[01:29:58]  But it's, you know, it's all very, it's kind of ambiguous, like what really the deal is.
[01:30:03]  And then you just get a lot of like him and John talking to people about their kind of, you know, crazy work in this CIA and NSA and all this stuff.
[01:30:16]  So like some 19-year-old Brandy Melville employee hadn't eaten besides overnight oats in like three days, sitting there, snizzed to the gills at 7 a.m., two blocks from the museum of ice cream.
[01:30:29]  And there's just like 36-year-old unk is sitting here being like, I knew that I was in the CIA by the time I was 12.
[01:30:40]  And they had just shown me the signs and they had done all of the experiments on me.
[01:30:45]  And that is why like I'm here.
[01:30:47]  I'm going to protect you.
[01:30:49]  Like just like rapping at her like that.
[01:30:52]  More or less.
[01:30:53]  Damn, dude.
[01:30:56]  This is, these sounds like, these, I will be honest, it sounds like nightmare parties at these places, but there's like, there is, I think, like, I don't want to even underplay, like, the Brandy girls are there a lot, it seems like.
[01:31:08]  And there is a new guest at the villa at a certain point in this, which is the, the, the Italian whose full name is Michael Valentino Teofrasto Carturan.
[01:31:25]  Yeah.
[01:31:26]  Um, okay, so Michael was, um, you know, he, he had known Will and John through crypto, and they, at a certain point, um, you know, had invited him to come hang out with them.
[01:31:45]  And it was part of this, like, kind of broader thing where they were, like, going to help him become like toughened up.
[01:31:55]  Like, they were like, you're going to be like, he had been sort of concerned, I think, that he, he had had a sort of business dispute with somebody that had gone bad and he was like getting freaked out.
[01:32:06]  He's like, you know, wanted to be, wanted to sort of see himself as like, you know, getting tougher.
[01:32:13]  So they were going to like, okay, they're kind of going to like make him more macho by basically, you know, frat hazing type of stuff was sort of like initially how I think it was described to people as a, as a, as in that was the dynamic between them.
[01:32:32]  Does that work to make you tougher?
[01:32:35]  I don't know.
[01:32:36]  Again, this seems like a very interesting slice of male, the male mind.
[01:32:41]  Like two guys being like, We can make you fucking like a sick, we can make you.
[01:32:46]  I guess I do see the logic where I'm like, if we just put out of you all the time and humiliate you, you'll come out of that somewhat inured to those things occurring to you in the future.
[01:32:57]  Yeah, I mean, that's the logic of hazing or whatever.
[01:33:00]  And but the thing, but it's like Cataron himself being like, You're right, yeah, it's also an interesting look at male friendship, yeah, exactly.
[01:33:09]  Well, because you want to be, I mean, I don't know if I've ever experienced a dynamic even adjacent to this one, but like I get it's fight club to me, you know what I mean?
[01:33:20]  Like a lot of this really reminded me of like these guys were doing the fight club house program on just this other guy, this one guy.
[01:33:30]  Well, so there's sort of like two narratives that emerge now about what exactly was going on with Carteron, and just to describe what they both are.
[01:33:39]  And you know, this is this more or less has to do with like what at this point the prosecution and defense are gonna say about this case, but like the sort of one way of looking at it is that he was there basically, you know, again, like for this sort of hazing thing where they were gonna toughen him up and it was this sort of thing between friends.
[01:34:00]  That, but the version that he and he was willingly going along with that, you know, sort of consensually being hazed and made to wear onesies and like, you know, put in a cage at parties and crazy outfits, like dresses, all this stuff.
[01:34:15]  The other version is that he's putting up with that.
[01:34:18]  And this is what he would later sort of say to prosecutors was because prior to coming over there, John and Will had taken millions of dollars of crypto from him and he was sort of going along with this stuff under duress.
[01:34:32]  So, yeah, I mean, those are kind of like the two ways of looking at what was happening to him.
[01:34:39]  But as far as anyone who was like at these parties could tell, he seemed to be loving it or at least like going along with it.
[01:34:46]  So you talked to people who were at these parties with him.
[01:34:49]  Yeah.
[01:34:50]  And they were like, Carteran was or Karturan, whatever, the name is subjective, you can pronounce it anyway.
[01:34:56]  Like, was like, he was having a good time.
[01:34:58]  Yeah, he was wearing the motherfucking onesie.
[01:35:00]  He was in the cage, but like, he liked it.
[01:35:03]  And he's like, yeah, I talked to somebody who was like, you know, one of the brandy girls was like, you know, and a number of people were initially kind of weirded out at how intensely this guy was being sort of hazed.
[01:35:18]  But, you know, she asked him and why he puts up with it.
[01:35:20]  And he was like, I, I like it.
[01:35:22]  It makes me stronger.
[01:35:24]  So does he strike you?
[01:35:29]  You say, I'm trying to be delicate here.
[01:35:31]  Does he strike you as like a simple?
[01:35:35]  No, actually, I think he's, he's, I mean, maybe, maybe, I don't know.
[01:35:39]  I haven't talked to him.
[01:35:40]  Yeah.
[01:35:41]  I've seen videos of him.
[01:35:45]  You know, I don't think he's like, no, I think he is like maybe relatively young and innocent.
[01:35:52]  I mean, he's 28, he's younger than these guys, but I don't think he's like, like, he was, I think he was somebody who spent a lot of time on the computer, maybe, but not necessarily like somebody with some sort of like mental problem or anything like that.
[01:36:05]  Not simple in that sense.
[01:36:06]  I think he was, but I think he may have been sheltered.
[01:36:09]  So, like, I mean, it's just, I asked that because I could like, you know, I could see somebody sort of like tolerating some of this in like a few different ways, right?

=== Videos Reveal Torture (15:25) ===

[01:36:19]  Like, you know, like there's like sort of the classic dynamic of like people sort of bullying someone without them knowing it, right?
[01:36:24]  Like thinking that they're their friend, but you're like, everyone's actually just mocking you.
[01:36:28]  Or, you know, this, you see this in like movies and stuff.
[01:36:30]  Like that's like, what are you doing to me?
[01:36:32]  Like what I do to Liz, of course, but like, and, or that movie, what was it?
[01:36:38]  It was like the was the movie where they pushed like the little, the like the little mean fat kid off the boat and kill him.
[01:36:44]  You know what I'm talking about.
[01:36:45]  It was like that one, but like you know, like everyone's like doesn't like you, but like you don't know that because you know you're just so excited to be around people or whatever I don't.
[01:36:54]  That wasn't the impression that people had of what was going on.
[01:36:57]  It didn't seem like this guy was like, necessarily like the, the target of of cruel mockery.
[01:37:06]  It wasn't people's perception of it.
[01:37:07]  They thought of it as like it was this sort of good-natured thing.
[01:37:11]  Yeah, between like yeah, you know again, like the way the the, the description that kept coming up from people I was talking to is just like a pledge being hazed at a frat.
[01:37:19]  Yeah, where it's like, which everyone always famously knows is very good natured.
[01:37:23]  Yeah, it's really good for me, not traumatic, I mean.
[01:37:25]  I'll read a quick section that I, that I, that was that I think describes how people saw it.
[01:37:30]  Um, you know.
[01:37:33]  So a 19 year old Brandy employee asked Carteron why he was doing all this.
[01:37:36]  It makes me stronger, he told her.
[01:37:38]  Besides, the residents of 38 prints showed at least some concern for Carteron's well-being.
[01:37:41]  One night the group was horsing around with a whip from a sex store quote, I accidentally hit Michael too hard with it to the point where he audibly said like ow, ow.
[01:37:49]  The Brandy employee said everyone in the room stopped and was like hold on, that's not funny.
[01:37:54]  She apologized to Carteron and quote, five minutes later we were all dancing and like having fun again.
[01:37:58]  It just seemed cheerful and lighthearted.
[01:38:00]  So I think you know, I think that that, as like Bizarre as that might sort of appear in the moment, everyone just thought of it as this like playful thing, even if they also were kind of weirded out by how this one guy always seemed to be on the receiving end of streaming.
[01:38:21]  You know, you kind of go on to mention in the article, like there, there, there's all these orgies that he's participating in.
[01:38:26]  Yeah, I mean, he's like, he's doing a lot of drugs and having a lot of sex.
[01:38:28]  I mean, that's the thing is they're giving him a lot of drugs, like a lot of drugs.
[01:38:33]  And I'm assuming this guy in a small town in Italy who's been on the computer a lot has probably not been like doing fucking whatever 2C until five in the morning, or not five in the morning, probably nine in the morning every day.
[01:38:46]  And it's, it's, so there's, I mean, again, like you're talking about the divergent narratives here.
[01:38:51]  Like, one is like, when this first came out, it seemed like this guy had been like chained up there.
[01:38:57]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:38:57]  Like, he'd been in the closet and like he busted out.
[01:39:01]  So that was one of the most interesting things for me in reporting on this was like realizing how inaccurate that initial, yeah, initial idea that I think everyone had of this was.
[01:39:12]  Well, it makes sense because the guy is running out of the house.
[01:39:14]  You assume like, well, if you're running out of the house, that means you probably could not, you're just, I gotta get out of there.
[01:39:20]  Right.
[01:39:21]  And instead, he was, as far as anyone can tell, not chained up, did leave the house a number of times, went to clubs with them, went to dinner with them.
[01:39:29]  You know, that's going to be, I think, like a large part of what this trial is going to be about is like, how is this a kidnapping when this person wasn't physically restrained?
[01:39:41]  I mean, I think there is kind of honestly like a little bit of something to that, right?
[01:39:45]  Like, I mean, I'm not saying that like they're not doing crimes here, but like the kidnapping thing, I'm like, I don't know.
[01:39:53]  It's, it's, it's, and you obviously don't have to comment on this here, journalist, but like it's a little different than other kidnapping.
[01:39:59]  It's like almost like a psychological kidnapping.
[01:40:02]  Yeah, I mean, that's, so that's like the kind of the case the prosecutors are making is that he was afraid.
[01:40:07]  Yeah.
[01:40:08]  And that that, you know, I'm not a lawyer.
[01:40:11]  I don't kind of understand like the finer points of the statute, but that that counts as somebody can be restrained by fear if they have a reason to be.
[01:40:21]  Whereas the defense is going to say, well, like, that's ridiculous.
[01:40:23]  He's, he certainly wasn't kidnapped.
[01:40:25]  He was, they were hazing him.
[01:40:26]  It was like a, they were, they were messing around.
[01:40:28]  And then, you know, but how do we get from you know, Brandy model seeing him, you know, sort of like, maybe it's a little weird, but we saw he was having a good time at the Mance at the parties to him running down Prince Street trying to flag down a cop because he's saying he said he's been kidnapped.
[01:40:49]  Yeah.
[01:40:50]  So what sort of happens over, so he's, he's, he's there from April until he runs out of the house on the early morning of May 23rd.
[01:40:59]  So it's about two months.
[01:41:01]  And What he would later testify is that over the course of that period, like starting in May, he went to Italy for a week.
[01:41:12]  He came back at the beginning of May and that they got, you know, Tuplessi and Woltz are just getting more and more aggressive about trying to get him to give up more of his cryptocurrency.
[01:41:25]  That against the backdrop of all this hazing is this sort of like ongoing attempt to get him to give up his password.
[01:41:31]  And they supposedly take his passport and have their people who work for them are kind of monitoring him.
[01:41:38]  And the prosecutors are saying, you know, he wasn't allowed to leave the house without somebody there with him.
[01:41:43]  And at some point, he's like wearing a collar with an air tag in it.
[01:41:48]  You know, he had to ask permission to use his phone.
[01:41:50]  So he's sort of like under surveillance by all the various people in the house.
[01:41:56]  And even though other people are seeing him at these parties, seemingly enjoying himself, that in fact he was like freaking out and being sort of psychologically pressured.
[01:42:07]  I mean, taking someone's passport and not letting them leave the house without supervision seems pretty clear to me what's going on.
[01:42:15]  You know, and again, there's a number of videos, some of which have been public, some of which are not, but that taken that month.
[01:42:23]  I mean, there's, there's, and it's like you're seeing the kind of hazing at a, let's say, at a new level.
[01:42:31]  Like there's a cattle prod involved in one video.
[01:42:34]  But again, you can also, you know, I think that those videos, again, the tone of it is sort of playful on the surface.
[01:42:43]  He's being cattle prodded by a Mel Brandy.
[01:42:45]  In one video, he's being cattle prodded by a Brandy Melville employee.
[01:42:49]  Yes.
[01:42:51]  I mean, that's what I'm saying.
[01:42:52]  Wearing a t-shirt, or sorry, tank top.
[01:42:54]  Everyone in the video is wearing a tank top with his face smoking crack on it.
[01:43:00]  Again, there's this undercurrent of non-stop.
[01:43:03]  The drug use is just kind of reaching a new level.
[01:43:05]  I mean, they're cooking crack in an air fryer.
[01:43:08]  Damn.
[01:43:09]  In an air fryer?
[01:43:11]  I made that shit on the stove.
[01:43:13]  Bad, too.
[01:43:14]  I made it real with penny shavings in it.
[01:43:16]  But it's like that's like it, and then like there's, because there was one of the initial details, too, we heard is that they took a chunk out of him with a chainsaw.
[01:43:26]  Now, is that true?
[01:43:28]  So this came up at a recent bail hearing where the judge was sort of describing a photograph that he was shown by the prosecutors of a chainsaw being held to Carter on just up to his leg, I believe.
[01:43:49]  And the judge was like, to paraphrase, I forget the exact quote, but he was like, all right, hold on.
[01:43:54]  You're telling me like they actually use this on him?
[01:43:57]  I mean, he was, the judge was asking the prosecutor, have you ever used a chainsaw before?
[01:44:00]  Like, that's a regular size chainsaw blade.
[01:44:01]  That's not something, you know, this guy didn't, you know, that would have like destroyed his leg.
[01:44:06]  And they were like, well, they just like, and again, I'm paraphrasing what the prosecutors were saying, but they were just saying like, well, first of all, they only used it on him very lightly and they cauterized the wound with the flame.
[01:44:17]  That's what they said.
[01:44:19]  And yeah, I mean, the judge seemed frankly skeptical of that.
[01:44:25]  But that is, that's the story that the prosecutors are going with.
[01:44:29]  And these guys, like, meanwhile, are walking through, because they were doing this shit in Kentucky where they're like dressed like operators about the CIA and all this stuff.
[01:44:36]  And they're still doing that.
[01:44:38]  Like, like Duplessis and Waltz are, like, still wearing night vision the house.
[01:44:42]  They've got fucking, they've got the piece, you know, they're walking around.
[01:44:45]  Yeah, I mean, they're wearing bulletproof.
[01:44:47]  They're wearing like all this stuff like in the house.
[01:44:49]  They're wearing some of it at clubs.
[01:44:51]  It's like part of the kind of costume of it all.
[01:44:54]  Like they're like special operators.
[01:44:56]  And like part of their manifesto that was kind of we mentioned earlier is that like they're like, we're going to rob the criminals.
[01:45:04]  We're going to do like a bit of a Robin Hood thing.
[01:45:06]  We're going to get the criminals.
[01:45:07]  And like in their head, Carturan is like a criminal here.
[01:45:11]  And so they're basically like, they're doing this weird half-assed thing, it seems like, where they're like, we are like torturing this guy, but we're like torturing him as like a part of our party.
[01:45:20]  You know, it's like that, that's sort of what it seems like to me.
[01:45:23]  Like they are.
[01:45:24]  I mean, this is, listen, you lock me in a cage around a bunch of beautiful models.
[01:45:30]  That is torture for me because I can't get out and talk to them.
[01:45:35]  But for real, it does seem like they're like, all right, we're doing our plan, but we also need to do as much Coke and Party as much as possible.
[01:45:45]  So we're going to take the guy we're doing the plan to out with us.
[01:45:50]  So, well, what the prosecutors are saying, or I guess what, yeah, what they're saying, Carter on side of the story is, is that the drugs and the sex was like all kind of part of the pressure campaign.
[01:46:03]  Like the drugs were kind of keeping him, you know, keeping him off balance, keeping him like delirious as they're kind of pressuring him to give up his password.
[01:46:14]  And then what the defense is saying is like, well, that's ridiculous.
[01:46:16]  Like you can see in these videos of him, you know, having sex, he's clearly having a good time.
[01:46:21]  Like this was just, these was just sort of, you know, this is just boys being boys part of the business.
[01:46:25]  It's a classic defense of many things.
[01:46:28]  And yeah, I mean, that's what the trial is going to, a lot of it's going to be about, I think.
[01:46:33]  But like they, I think a piece of evidence that the government has that, you know, that they're going to use to kind of shape it in this particular way is like this, like you said, you mentioned this manifesto.
[01:46:49]  Or there's a, there's a handful of documents that investigators found.
[01:46:56]  One of which is this manifesto where they sort of lay out this, like you said, this sort of plan to, in their words, hijack the hijackers to take money from people that they are describing as foreign terrorists.
[01:47:12]  I mean, the gist of the manifesto is that they had this plan to target foreign crypto holders and take their crypto in order to sort of disrupt these, in their words, like sort of networks of criminals undermining America.
[01:47:30]  So that's one thing that kind of the government is going to use to frame what they were doing to Carteron as part of this sort of larger attempt at robbery.
[01:47:41]  And then the other thing that the government is going to use to sort of fill in the picture there is these documents that are like sort of like fake charging documents charging Carter on under the Patriot Act and with violations of Italian law,
[01:48:01]  you know, framed as coming from them and their role as like CIA, NSA, whatever, just as these sort of operators with the ability to bring charges and including a section for him to fill in the passwords to his crypto accounts.
[01:48:17]  So that's, you know, that's not great.
[01:48:21]  That's not great for the defense there, right?
[01:48:24]  I mean, it's fake charging documents under Italian law.
[01:48:29]  So it's like, yeah, while you're on crack at my townhouse surrounded by Brandy Melville models.
[01:48:34]  Yeah, that I'm keeping you in a cage.
[01:48:36]  So it's like, what is the idea that that, I guess, would have been, I'm just trying to think of what the defense angle would be, that that is part of like building up the illusion of the hazing more.
[01:48:47]  I'm not sure.
[01:48:49]  That that was all part of it.
[01:48:50]  Of course.
[01:48:51]  Yeah.
[01:48:52]  I mean, it's like totally threatening.
[01:48:54]  But like they, I would assume they probably pulled something similar with the German guy that they lured out to Paducah with his mom.
[01:49:05]  Well, I talked to somebody who they had had conversations with about working for them in New York who, you know, they told him that his, he, he, he had a bunch of crypto and they were like, well, if you want to work for us, you have to hand, you have to give us control over all of your crypto because in their word, their kind of jargon they would use for it is chinked, quote unquote,
[01:49:33]  because they would associate, you know, they sort of, they were associating with sort of foreign Chinese terrorist, whatever.
[01:49:42]  So they were going to, quote, un-chink it by giving, having this guy give access to all of his crypto accounts.
[01:49:49]  This is such drug shit.
[01:49:50]  This is like the most fucking crackhead bullshit I've ever fucking heard.
[01:49:55]  Like, listen, I need to hold your money because the Chinese otherwise might have some.
[01:50:03]  I don't understand what the Chinese are doing.
[01:50:07]  We know what your Bitcoin's doing.
[01:50:09]  Yeah, it's sitting in your fucking wallet, accruing value.
[01:50:13]  You know, glad the Chinese can see that.
[01:50:15]  And China, if you're listening to this, you can do whatever you want to mine, except for take it.
[01:50:20]  But it's, I mean, that's what I'm saying.
[01:50:23]  Like, these guys are like under this coked out delusion.
[01:50:26]  And now that they're like arrested, because they did get arrested.
[01:50:30]  I mean, it's Waltz got arrested at the townhouse.
[01:50:33]  Did his dick fall out?
[01:50:35]  One of their dicks fell out.
[01:50:36]  I read this in the New York Post.
[01:50:37]  One of their wills.
[01:50:39]  They came out in a robe.
[01:50:40]  Came out in a robe.
[01:50:41]  The dick falls out, which does happen in robes.
[01:50:44]  Because sometimes you'd cinch it and then you breathe out real crazy.
[01:50:47]  And then, and it just boink.
[01:50:50]  But Du Plessis goes to the Hamptons, which is crazy.
[01:50:54]  Du Plessis, while Waltz is getting arrested, Du Plessis runs away to the Hamptons.
[01:50:59]  Which, you know.
[01:51:00]  He's like, one last.
[01:51:03]  One last crazy one.
[01:51:04]  One last ride, baby.
[01:51:08]  But they both get arrested.
[01:51:09]  They're both being charged with first-degree kidnapping.
[01:51:12]  And now they're both, what, they're out on bail?
[01:51:17]  They are.
[01:51:18]  So Waltz is out.
[01:51:20]  They've both been granted bail.
[01:51:21]  It's a really expensive bail package.
[01:51:24]  As far as I know, Woltz is out on it and Duplessis is still in jail as they try and come up with...
[01:51:33]  I mean, I'm not quite sure.
[01:51:35]  It could be that they're trying to come up with money.
[01:51:36]  It could be, they're just sort of getting the circumstances set for him to get bail.
[01:51:41]  Are you afraid of them going to hurt you?
[01:51:43]  No.

=== Bail Bonds and Bail Packages (06:49) ===

[01:51:44]  I love this.
[01:51:45]  You have a quote from a former Du Plessis associate who has known him for almost a decade.
[01:51:51]  He's just a guy who should be in jail.
[01:51:55]  Can you imagine yourself?
[01:51:57]  Is that the impression you got from talking to a lot of these people?
[01:52:01]  That like, I mean, Walt, to me, so this is the thing.
[01:52:04]  Waltz to me seems like he might have developed genuine like schizophrenia or something.
[01:52:09]  Yeah.
[01:52:09]  Or like maybe just has really bad bipolar.
[01:52:12]  I don't know.
[01:52:12]  But like he has some kind of like mental thing going on.
[01:52:15]  Well Du Plessis seems like he might have, and I'm doing a little armchair psychoanalysis here.
[01:52:21]  He might be have like a, he might be like a psychopath or something.
[01:52:26]  And, but like, it's, it's like, it's, they have like this, like the coming together of their, both of their whatever delusions, like Duplessis' delusion of himself as this like gangster, even though he's like from fucking Greenwich, Connecticut, this as this gangster.
[01:52:43]  And then Walt's like having his own maybe like kind of mentally ill delusions that he's sort of been cooking up in his casa in Kentucky.
[01:52:54]  And then like combining that and then adding bags and bags and bags and bags of cocaine into the mix.
[01:53:01]  And bags and bags and bags of Brandy Melville tiny tank tops.
[01:53:04]  Of course, which to me is better than Gauguin.
[01:53:09]  But it seems like they could have sort of joined the psychosis together and create this shared world that they live in.
[01:53:19]  Yeah.
[01:53:20]  That no, I mean, they're so at this point, they're bombing so hard that like nothing is really touching it.
[01:53:26]  And then like they can kind of inure themselves from like reality.
[01:53:31]  Well, I think it's something that like I've seen in like a number of stories I've done involving, you know, cult-like groups.
[01:53:39]  Not to say this is that exactly, but that like you only need two people for a shared fantasy to come into being.
[01:53:46]  Like one story.
[01:53:47]  Man, that's so true.
[01:53:47]  That's also the story of love.
[01:53:49]  So true.
[01:53:50]  And maybe that's what this is in the end, too.
[01:53:52]  A love story.
[01:53:53]  But it's like, it's like the, it's like when I read like the Cult at Sarah Lawrence thing that you did, I was just like, if I was there, I wouldn't have gone down like that.
[01:54:01]  You say that about everything, though.
[01:54:03]  But it's true.
[01:54:04]  Yeah, because if you add your presence, that automatically would change the chemistry.
[01:54:07]  But it's like your imaginary alpha dog.
[01:54:10]  What you imagine is not.
[01:54:13]  Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
[01:54:14]  And that's another one with like a heavy presence of stimulants also.
[01:54:17]  Exactly.
[01:54:18]  I think we're learning, and the Zizians as well.
[01:54:21]  But like, it's to me, it's like, I think that is really, I mean, you talk about like a lot of this being so New York, like of a certain kind of New York thing that's going down, a world that unfortunately I will live in eventually when the show gets a little bigger.
[01:54:36]  I will be part of this.
[01:54:37]  I promise you guys, I'm coming and I will save you.
[01:54:39]  I'm coming to Prince Street.
[01:54:41]  I'm coming to Brandy Melville and I will save all of you.
[01:54:44]  It will not happen.
[01:54:47]  You rescuing girls from Brandy Melville?
[01:54:49]  I'm coming into the place of Prince Street.
[01:54:52]  Everybody on the ground except for the women.
[01:54:54]  You're leaving with me.
[01:54:55]  The modern taxi driver.
[01:54:57]  We're getting you fucking matcha.
[01:54:59]  We're going to Blank Street.
[01:55:00]  We're getting you matcha.
[01:55:01]  Laboo Boo.
[01:55:01]  We're getting you a laboo booze.
[01:55:03]  We're getting fucking.
[01:55:04]  I'm going in there.
[01:55:05]  Stop saying le boo-boo.
[01:55:06]  Le boo-boo.
[01:55:07]  Man, I told you I was actually in a fucking.
[01:55:10]  I was in a store by your house, a little corner store by your house recently, and there was a lady explaining to her friends how they were satanic.
[01:55:16]  She was like, don't fucking go near those laboo boos because they are.
[01:55:19]  I love that.
[01:55:20]  I guess it is a real thing.
[01:55:21]  It is like a TikTok thing.
[01:55:22]  I love TikTok.
[01:55:23]  And I asked her about it because her friend was like, what are you talking about?
[01:55:26]  But she was like, nope, they really have.
[01:55:28]  Are they like witch dolls?
[01:55:29]  No, it's something to do with the Exorcist movie.
[01:55:33]  With the actual movie?
[01:55:34]  With the demon from the movie, The Exorcist.
[01:55:37]  Does it look like a Laboo Boo?
[01:55:38]  I don't know.
[01:55:39]  I could not, I couldn't.
[01:55:40]  Someone else sort of explained it to me halfway, too.
[01:55:42]  No one could really remember.
[01:55:44]  But like it's to me, it's like the one thing, yes, it has all this like New York shit in it, but like the one through line through a lot, one of the through lines, actually, not the one, but one of the through lines through a lot of your stories, but just a lot of stories that you encounter in this world are these people like having this creating their own reality and like it may be being weird and just you and your friend and being, you know,
[01:56:08]  maybe you get it on a little bit of other people, but like it eventually like all coming crashing down when you like that reality comes up against somebody else and like it annihilates them or tries to annihilate them.
[01:56:19]  Yeah.
[01:56:20]  And what's interesting about this one is like given the resources at their disposal, they could sort of manifest a fantasy into reality kind of like with I mean, they could just like make it happen.
[01:56:36]  I mean, they could just like fill a mansion with guns and like, you know, brandy emailable employees, they could just like snap their fingers and suddenly all this stuff is in front of them.
[01:56:46]  Private chats, like all of it, in a way that's like, you know, obviously a lot of rich people live in a crazy way, but like this, you know, for the degree of kind of what we're talking about as far as like this shared fantasy, the ability they had to actualize it is pretty remarkable.
[01:57:08]  Yeah.
[01:57:08]  I mean, I think, I think like a lot of, I don't want to be like this guy, whatever, but like a lot of like social media privileges delusion.
[01:57:17]  And I think like really encourages it in people.
[01:57:20]  And you see this in small ways and big ways a lot.
[01:57:22]  Like, and whether it's political or social or whatever about the way you look or whatever, whatever, whatever.
[01:57:31]  I think it's like it grows and it can really fucking, if you have, most people don't have the resources to do anything about it.
[01:57:38]  So maybe you can like live out your little fantasy life online or like, you know, whatever.
[01:57:43]  But like in the real world, you can't really like pretend to be in the CIA or pretend to be hunting the CIA or whatever because like you live in an apartment and like have to go to work.
[01:57:53]  But like these guys can fill a mansion full of guns and like, you know, print out all these documents and have like point at you a gun at you and be like, I'm in the CIA.
[01:58:04]  And if they get arrested, can get out on bail.
[01:58:07]  Where like most people don't have the resources to do that kind of thing.
[01:58:10]  I mean, there's a certain amount of privilege in being able to have this much fun.
[01:58:14]  Until AI democratizes and weaponizes our desire to daydream.
[01:58:18]  Well, I think, I mean, yeah.
[01:58:19]  I mean, I think that that is, I think, AI is going to be like so many of your stories have the coin as a factor, but AI, I think, will soon really be integrated into a lot of freak shows.

=== AI in Freak Shows (02:07) ===

[01:58:34]  Well, the piece is fantastic.
[01:58:36]  It's in New York magazine right now.
[01:58:38]  We will link to it in the show notes.
[01:58:39]  There's so many details we didn't even talk about.
[01:58:42]  It's such a, yeah, it's a very rich piece.
[01:58:44]  The story's fucking crazy.
[01:58:47]  And it's always great to have you on the show.
[01:58:49]  Thanks.
[01:58:50]  My pleasure.
[01:58:51]  See you guys at Brandy.
[01:59:04]  All right.
[01:59:05]  Well.
[01:59:05]  No, I have to complain about something first.
[01:59:07]  Really?
[01:59:08]  Yeah, I think when I actually knocked the shelf over earlier, I think I knocked the shelf over.
[01:59:12]  Did you break your little thing?
[01:59:13]  It's not a little thing.
[01:59:16]  I mean, it is actually a literally.
[01:59:17]  No, literally, you're holding your tiny.
[01:59:19]  It's literally a miniature gun.
[01:59:20]  Yeah, you gotta get it.
[01:59:20]  I broke my miniature gold-plated AK I bought for the studio.
[01:59:25]  What did you do?
[01:59:27]  I dropped it.
[01:59:28]  Oh my God, I'm so sick.
[01:59:29]  Can you hear it?
[01:59:30]  Dude, why are you here then?
[01:59:32]  Because I have to work.
[01:59:34]  Do you know?
[01:59:35]  I want this on record.
[01:59:37]  On fucking record.
[01:59:38]  Is what you have, can it come to me?
[01:59:41]  No.
[01:59:42]  No.
[01:59:43]  I make eye contact.
[01:59:44]  No, it can't.
[01:59:47]  Rincon told me this once.
[01:59:49]  And he had COVID.
[01:59:50]  Do you think that I am, first of all, do you think that I am Rincon?
[01:59:53]  No, but I'm saying that destroyed my trust in everything.
[01:59:56]  Well, it's not COVID.
[01:59:57]  That shattered my foundations.
[01:59:58]  I know.
[01:59:58]  Tonight, I got COVID, but if I, if you, ladies and gentlemen, if you, because I'm coming in sick next time, if that happens too, I am sick right now.
[02:00:05]  I got something really wrong with this.
[02:00:06]  It's a sick podcast.
[02:00:07]  New, new COVID.
[02:00:09]  With that being said, I am.
[02:00:12]  Ooh.
[02:00:13]  Is it weird when I do it first?
[02:00:15]  No, I'm Brace.
[02:00:16]  I'm Liz.
[02:00:17]  I'm producer Young Chomsky.
[02:00:18]  And this has been Trunon.
[02:00:19]  We'll see you next time.
[02:00:21]  Bye-bye.
[02:00:38]  Just check, check the step.
[02:00:40]  Come in.
[02:00:41]  Come in.