True Anon Truth Feed - Episode 480: GI Go Home
Aired: 2025-08-07
Duration: 01:26:52


=== Why We Left Seriously (05:31) ===

[00:00:00]  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Seriously with Barry Weiss.
[00:00:05]  Is that what it's called?
[00:00:06]  What is it called?
[00:00:07]  No, I think it is called something like that.
[00:00:09]  Seriously?
[00:00:12]  Honestly.
[00:00:14]  Honestly.
[00:00:15]  Wait, I like seriously better.
[00:00:17]  Seriously?
[00:00:18]  I'm going to start Seriously with Carrie Bice.
[00:00:21]  Well, I'm welcome to Seriously.
[00:00:27]  Welcome to Seriously with Barry Weiss.
[00:00:31]  We are talking to Douglas Murray.
[00:00:33]  Have you seen this guy, Douglas Murray?
[00:00:37]  Like Douglas Murray, Douglas Murray?
[00:00:38]  Yeah, Douglas Murray.
[00:00:39]  Yes, I've seen him.
[00:00:41]  What a weird little creature he is.
[00:00:43]  No?
[00:00:43]  Are you talking about the hair?
[00:00:45]  Just the whole thing of him.
[00:00:46]  There's like two guys like this.
[00:00:48]  I just want to talk some shit here.
[00:00:52]  Him and this guy, Constantine Kissick, or some shit like that.
[00:00:56]  Both of these guys are like, they're like gnomic goy slaves.
[00:01:01]  I think it's fair to call them.
[00:01:03]  Well, it's not goy slaves.
[00:01:05]  They're not, they don't serve you.
[00:01:06]  They are people who serve me.
[00:01:09]  And for some reason, like, I'm like, what is Douglas Murray's job?
[00:01:13]  Like, writing a New York Post article every couple of weeks about Columbia anti-Semitism.
[00:01:18]  Like, I don't even know where Constantine Kissick came from, but he does this podcast.
[00:01:24]  I can't remember what it's called.
[00:01:25]  It's probably called like For Real with Constantine Kissick.
[00:01:29]  No way.
[00:01:30]  They all have the same show, which is like they sit across from somebody and they just talk about anti-Semitism.
[00:01:37]  What is the audience for this stuff?
[00:01:39]  Apparently infinite.
[00:01:41]  It has to be and governmental.
[00:01:44]  I mean, it is, yeah, you're right, correct.
[00:01:46]  But it is like a smaller like podcast sphere than I think any other.
[00:01:51]  Like there's like four guests that they share.
[00:01:53]  They're all staff writers at the free press and they just all kind of go around on each other's podcasts and just like these protesters or whatever.
[00:02:02]  Like there's so much, there's just so much hate in this world.
[00:02:05]  It's it's the death of the West they talk about.
[00:02:09]  And I just, I don't know.
[00:02:11]  I think Barry Weiss should eat them all and sort of absorb their chi and spirit and all those things, their souls, and just do one ultimate six-hour podcast every day where she just covers all the ground.
[00:02:23]  I think we should just get in on it.
[00:02:47]  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the show.
[00:02:53]  My name is Bryce.
[00:02:56]  That was so serious.
[00:02:57]  My name is Liz.
[00:02:58]  Hello.
[00:02:59]  My name is producer Young Chomsky here.
[00:03:01]  There we go.
[00:03:02]  And this is Truanon.
[00:03:04]  This is Truanon.
[00:03:06]  It feels like nowhere's safe these days.
[00:03:10]  You try to, you know, catch a quick 18-hour flight down to Thailand.
[00:03:16]  You want to go see the effervescent things in the water there.
[00:03:18]  Take a little bit of MDMA, maybe touch a breast or the buttocks, you know, slick with sweat.
[00:03:24]  So my little hands are falling off of them.
[00:03:27]  I want a kiss.
[00:03:27]  I want a French kiss.
[00:03:28]  I want a French kiss all night.
[00:03:31]  And of course, I have people.
[00:03:32]  I guess it's so gross when you say French kiss.
[00:03:35]  I want a French kiss.
[00:03:36]  I want to.
[00:03:37]  Question.
[00:03:38]  Yes.
[00:03:39]  Do you think saying French kiss is worse than saying French?
[00:03:42]  French.
[00:03:43]  That feels very vintage.
[00:03:44]  Frenched.
[00:03:45]  I like to French a woman or two.
[00:03:49]  And if I have to give a little bit of money, it's no skin off my back.
[00:03:53]  I have a lot of crypto holdings.
[00:03:55]  But I go down.
[00:03:56]  I take this flight.
[00:03:57]  I get off the flight.
[00:03:58]  Of course, I have a headache.
[00:04:00]  I feel bloated.
[00:04:02]  My skin is a mess.
[00:04:04]  And yes, I might have spent the last six months posting Instagram stories of me burning children's toys in various houses in Gaza.
[00:04:13]  And I get here and I try to grab a butt.
[00:04:16]  I try to grab a boob, things I've been doing for years.
[00:04:19]  And then people videotape themselves beating the shit out of me.
[00:04:22]  And it's just a crime.
[00:04:24]  No, I shouldn't, you know, I shouldn't use the accent for that because I feel like Mordecai.
[00:04:29]  First of all, yeah, American.
[00:04:30]  He's American.
[00:04:31]  He doesn't even know what Israel is.
[00:04:32]  What's the Israeli accent?
[00:04:35]  It's my favorite.
[00:04:36]  I feel like you could probably do a good one.
[00:04:38]  I don't.
[00:04:38]  I wouldn't lower myself to doing such a thing.
[00:04:43]  Yeah.
[00:04:44]  Wait, what is it?
[00:04:45]  It's like European.
[00:04:47]  They have kind of the French R going on.
[00:04:49]  Yeah.
[00:04:50]  In Israel.
[00:04:52]  Yeah.
[00:04:53]  It's, you know, he said, she said situation.
[00:04:58]  You know, it's just a little bit of a Peppin Leview.
[00:05:03]  It is kind of Peppy Lebie, though.
[00:05:04]  It is a little bit of Peppa.
[00:05:05]  It's a spiritual.
[00:05:06]  He said, she said, situation.
[00:05:09]  You know, it's very complicated.
[00:05:12]  I don't know.
[00:05:12]  I can't do it, but it's like it's European-based, and I can't really do it.
[00:05:17]  I can kind of only do Australian accent and the Mordecai accent.
[00:05:20]  I can't really do any other ones besides that.
[00:05:24]  But I'm thinking of adopting the Israeli accent in order to get maybe a deal on Barry Weiss's sub stack.

=== Live Shows Sold Out (06:02) ===

[00:05:31]  Okay, before we get into what we're talking about today, we have to get a little housekeeping out of the out of the way.
[00:05:37]  Yeah.
[00:05:39]  We're doing some live shows.
[00:05:40]  We've already announced them.
[00:05:42]  We're announcing them again because they've now gone on sale for everybody.
[00:05:48]  Yeah, actually, they've been on sale since Monday.
[00:05:50]  So there you go.
[00:05:51]  Here's the thing: the first two are sold out.
[00:05:53]  They are sold out.
[00:05:57]  Why are you looking at me?
[00:05:58]  I didn't fucking do it.
[00:05:59]  You know what?
[00:05:59]  I didn't buy any single ticket.
[00:06:00]  They're sold out.
[00:06:01]  They're sold out, which means that there are still tickets available for the final two.
[00:06:06]  Which are going to be better.
[00:06:07]  Sorry.
[00:06:08]  Now that you guys bought the tickets for the first two, the last two are definitely better.
[00:06:12]  We're going to get all of our willies out.
[00:06:15]  We're going to get all our willies out.
[00:06:17]  No, but here the reality is, we're doing a different kind of show.
[00:06:21]  We're doing, everyone's going to be different.
[00:06:22]  And frankly, the first time, we're going to fuck this up really badly.
[00:06:25]  No.
[00:06:25]  So it's going to be two hours of us on stage going, um, this is your laptop.
[00:06:30]  Shuffling around.
[00:06:31]  Hold on.
[00:06:32]  Wait.
[00:06:33]  Can you guys give me a second?
[00:06:34]  Don't just kind of like shifting from stool to stool.
[00:06:37]  We're going to have like eight stools up there.
[00:06:39]  Me and Liz are just going to stay.
[00:06:40]  Only stools, nothing else.
[00:06:41]  Are we going to sit?
[00:06:42]  I've been thinking about this.
[00:06:43]  We are going to sit and stand and maybe do some other things.
[00:06:48]  Dance.
[00:06:49]  What else are we going to do?
[00:06:50]  You're going to fucking find out when you do what I tell you.
[00:06:53]  I'm going to show them my own.
[00:06:55]  We have tickets available for the 10:30 show.
[00:06:58]  That's October 30th, night, Halloween Eve.
[00:07:02]  Mischief night.
[00:07:03]  And yeah, mischief.
[00:07:04]  And it shall be what?
[00:07:06]  It shall be a mischievous evening.
[00:07:07]  We might have a Dracula.
[00:07:08]  We might have a Frankenstein.
[00:07:10]  We might have a skeleton.
[00:07:14]  Don't get too scary.
[00:07:16]  And then what's the last one?
[00:07:17]  1119?
[00:07:18]  Yes.
[00:07:18]  Look at that.
[00:07:19]  Master Memory.
[00:07:20]  Is it?
[00:07:22]  I think that it is 1119.
[00:07:24]  Do you remember reading the dates for the tour and how much fun we would have with that?
[00:07:29]  I thought I really miss you reading the dates for the tour.
[00:07:35]  1119, that is November 19th of 2025, is going to be the final show and frankly probably the last one for many years because I am getting my face removed.
[00:07:48]  But we don't know.
[00:07:49]  I saw a lady at Penn Station today with a full skim, now skim style chin wrap.
[00:07:56]  She was bruised.
[00:07:57]  Big hat.
[00:07:58]  I think she was going to most likely go to the Hamptons.
[00:08:01]  She got the, what's it called?
[00:08:02]  Kybella?
[00:08:03]  No, no, I think it was a full.
[00:08:04]  No, she didn't get Kybella.
[00:08:06]  I think she was getting a full face.
[00:08:09]  Dude, sorry.
[00:08:09]  First of all, she was like bruised around and she had the chin strap.
[00:08:12]  That's only the chin.
[00:08:13]  Oh, she had the chin around her head.
[00:08:15]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:08:16]  Plus, a big sort of Kentucky style.
[00:08:18]  There's going to be a ton of females like that at this bitch.
[00:08:23]  What?
[00:08:24]  There's going to be a ton of females who have recently gone life-changing in a good way cosmetic surgery at our show.
[00:08:32]  Yeah.
[00:08:32]  And I am going to point it out.
[00:08:34]  I'm going to be up there.
[00:08:35]  Well, we're both because we're getting face-off.
[00:08:37]  I'm getting reverse Kybella.
[00:08:38]  I'm getting a goy to put in.
[00:08:39]  I'm going to get the facial masculinization surgery.
[00:08:42]  I'm getting a titty.
[00:08:44]  I'm getting a single titty.
[00:08:45]  But you're not going to tell people where you're putting it because it's going to be a tail.
[00:08:50]  Oh, dude, I still have that tail.
[00:08:52]  Shout out to Izzy, but I still have that tail.
[00:08:55]  And I should.
[00:08:56]  If you don't explain what that means, it doesn't sound right.
[00:08:58]  Was given a tale, a human tale at our Bellhouse show way back when.
[00:09:04]  The first show I think we ever did here, because I said I want a human tale on the podcast.
[00:09:08]  I don't even remember you saying that.
[00:09:09]  It just appeared.
[00:09:10]  It was a big deal for me.
[00:09:11]  You have it at home?
[00:09:13]  I saw it at home.
[00:09:13]  I happened to know.
[00:09:14]  The guy gave it to me at the show.
[00:09:15]  Yeah, but it should be here.
[00:09:17]  I feel like your house is kind of like Wonder Emporium of all like various Ripley's, believe it or not.
[00:09:23]  I would say what I just got, but I can't say it on the show.
[00:09:25]  I can't say any Muter Museum.
[00:09:30]  It is the fucking Muter Museum.
[00:09:32]  A lot of shit there.
[00:09:33]  It's weirder somehow.
[00:09:34]  I got a lot of artifacts up in that motherfucker.
[00:09:36]  You do.
[00:09:37]  It's not even just artifacts.
[00:09:38]  It's mutant babies.
[00:09:40]  I don't know.
[00:09:41]  Yeah, I do have a thing in a jar.
[00:09:42]  Yeah, but that's like, that's just like guys.
[00:09:45]  You got a lot of guys over there.
[00:09:46]  All right.
[00:09:46]  Pause.
[00:09:47]  That's not true.
[00:09:48]  You do.
[00:09:48]  You got a lot of weird little guys over there.
[00:09:50]  I do always have guys in my house.
[00:09:52]  Shirtless guys.
[00:09:53]  People come in and out of my house like it's a flop house.
[00:09:55]  Well, you kind of run it like one.
[00:09:57]  I do, and I don't lock the door.
[00:09:58]  And you love it.
[00:09:59]  I'm just playing.
[00:10:00]  I don't lock the door to invite you in, so I'll blow your fucking brain.
[00:10:03]  No, because you lock it after they come in.
[00:10:04]  That's a move.
[00:10:05]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:10:05]  I got a button.
[00:10:06]  Like, what's that?
[00:10:07]  What's that?
[00:10:07]  Was it the Charlie Rose?
[00:10:09]  I got a Charlie Rose button.
[00:10:10]  No, no, no.
[00:10:10]  No, it wasn't Charlie Rose.
[00:10:12]  It was fucking Brian Williams.
[00:10:14]  I got the Brian Williams.
[00:10:15]  They all got buttons.
[00:10:16]  You know that Charlie Rose had a button too, though.
[00:10:19]  But no, but for real, though, we have tickets on sale for 10-10, October 10th.
[00:10:23]  No.
[00:10:24]  No, that's the last one.
[00:10:24]  That's sold out.
[00:10:26]  That's sold out.
[00:10:27]  Yeah.
[00:10:27]  Wow.
[00:10:28]  And that's the show.
[00:10:29]  And that's the show that Annie Milanakis is going to be on.
[00:10:32]  That's the show that Annie Milanokis is going out on.
[00:10:34]  Yeah.
[00:10:34]  No, we got tickets for 10.30, and we have tickets for 11.19.
[00:10:40]  That's October 30th and November 19th of 2025.
[00:10:45]  And there's a link to buy in the description.
[00:10:48]  Link to bio.
[00:10:49]  You like that?
[00:10:50]  We've never done really a link tree situation.
[00:10:53]  Because maybe those are associated with porn.
[00:10:55]  We had a link tree.
[00:10:56]  What was in when we were on tour?
[00:10:57]  I don't think those are associated with porn.
[00:10:59]  I see a link tree in a profile.
[00:11:00]  I'm like one click away from Amazon wishlist.
[00:11:03]  Yeah.
[00:11:04]  Well, come on.
[00:11:05]  But for me, I'm like, Linktree is not for me.
[00:11:10]  Link tree for thee, but not you.
[00:11:12]  Yeah.
[00:11:13]  Let's get to the episode.
[00:11:14]  We have today with us Jake Rahm finally on the show after, frankly, accompanying us to several of our Israel-themed outings.
[00:11:23]  He came to the October 8th.
[00:11:26]  He came to both October 8ths that we went to.
[00:11:28]  I thought we just did it once.
[00:11:30]  No, we went to the movie, and then we also went to the October 8th Museum.

=== Accountability in Israel (15:26) ===

[00:11:34]  Experience.
[00:11:34]  Experience.
[00:11:36]  Finally on the show to talk about the Hindu Job Foundation.
[00:11:40]  And I found it to be a very edifying conversation.
[00:11:42]  Yeah, I think you guys will really like this.
[00:11:44]  So, let's just get into it.
[00:12:01]  So, Jacob, an interesting thing happened when I Googled your organization the other day.
[00:12:09]  Above your group's website, there was an ad from an organization that I'm not saying I trust, but many people do trust, the government of Israel.
[00:12:21]  And interestingly enough, it was about your organization.
[00:12:25]  And I found it, well, actually, to be completely honest, I have to break character a little bit.
[00:12:30]  The dossier does actually fucking suck.
[00:12:32]  It's not a very good dossier.
[00:12:34]  It's not a very good smear dossier.
[00:12:36]  But the introduction to the dossier, I found very interesting.
[00:12:40]  It says, the Hind Rajab Foundation presents itself as a legitimate legal advocacy group dedicated to holding the Israeli Defense Forces, IDF, accountable for alleged war crimes.
[00:12:53]  However, behind this facade lies a disturbing reality.
[00:12:58]  This report, which again sucks and we're not even going to read from, reveals the HRF's deep connections to extremist ideologies and terrorist organizations, raising serious concerns about its true motives.
[00:13:12]  HRF actively gathers and disseminates information on IDF soldiers living abroad, aiming to subject them to legal harassment and potentially jeopardize their safety.
[00:13:27]  The foundation has filed complaints against soldiers across multiple countries and submitted reports to the International Criminal Court alleging, quote, war crimes committed by numerous soldiers and officers.
[00:13:39]  So, Jake Rahm, first of all, welcome to the show.
[00:13:42]  Maybe, after reading this, not so sure.
[00:13:44]  You are the U.S. representative of the Hind Rajab Foundation.
[00:13:49]  How do you plead?
[00:13:52]  Yeah, guilty is charged.
[00:13:53]  We do subject them to legal filings.
[00:13:58]  We do want to put them in harm's way insofar as jail is a form of harm.
[00:14:03]  Or the safest place of all.
[00:14:05]  It could well be the safest place of all for them.
[00:14:08]  It's certainly safer for them than Gaza.
[00:14:12]  And we are filing charges against them for war crimes.
[00:14:16]  But we're also filing charges against them for crimes against humanity and also genocide.
[00:14:21]  So they did miss those.
[00:14:24]  As far as extremist ideologies, I have read the dossier and I've read the site multiple times.
[00:14:29]  They never actually name them.
[00:14:31]  They don't.
[00:14:32]  They don't name them and they don't say what our true motive is.
[00:14:34]  Because our true motive is to get these Israeli soldiers.
[00:14:38]  That is the true motive, and that is what they don't like.
[00:14:40]  I feel a little confused on what legal harassment is.
[00:14:42]  It's like, well, if it's legal, then right, we're legally.
[00:14:45]  It's not like slap.
[00:14:46]  Yeah, it's not like slap charge or whatever.
[00:14:49]  But they don't.
[00:14:49]  No, they just sort of vaguely gesture towards things by basically saying, you know, it's the same thing as saying like, it's all Hamas.
[00:14:56]  It's all Hamas to me.
[00:14:57]  Well, the way we're all Hezbollah, according to that.
[00:15:00]  Yes.
[00:15:00]  So they do, they do, they do claim you guys are Hezbollah, but also it's like when I started reading the dossier, I was like, oh, it's going to be like 50 pages.
[00:15:07]  It's going to be some guy's like tweets or whatever.
[00:15:10]  And it's 11 pages.
[00:15:12]  And I think one of those is the credits and one of those is like the cover.
[00:15:16]  And so I'm like, this sucks.
[00:15:17]  This is all you got on this?
[00:15:18]  Yeah, they really have nothing.
[00:15:22]  And they, if you look at, you know, if you look at the J Post, like JNS, they are talking about this shit all the time.
[00:15:31]  Yes.
[00:15:31]  But it's always, again, in these extremely vague strokes.
[00:15:34]  And they're terrified.
[00:15:35]  And it's like kind of changed, changed what their bit, or it's caused the Israeli government to try to change soldiers' behavior to no avail because there's kind of, they can't just like shut us down.
[00:15:47]  It's all volunteer.
[00:15:48]  It's all donation-based.
[00:15:51]  They've tried various things of like pressuring states and we've had difficulties with banks, but they've all been resolved.
[00:16:00]  You know, like these things, like the dossier, they just don't really work against us, partially because none of us are also like running for office.
[00:16:09]  Yeah.
[00:16:09]  But you can't get me fired from the Hind Rajab Foundation by saying that I'm attacking Israeli soldiers through legal means.
[00:16:16]  Yeah, that's the point.
[00:16:17]  That's the point.
[00:16:18]  That's the whole point of the work.
[00:16:20]  So let's back up for a second and explain to our listeners exactly what the Hind Rajab Foundation is and what work you are doing there.
[00:16:30]  Okay.
[00:16:30]  So the Hindrajab Foundation was started, when was it started?
[00:16:37]  Started in like February under that name.
[00:16:40]  It had previously, it is associated with something called the March 30th Movement, which was also founded by the Hindrajab Foundation founder, Diyab Abu Jajah, in Belgium, which they had previously, Diyab had previously worked on filing a case in Belgium against Aryel Sharon for his role in Shabrun Shatila.
[00:17:00]  Sabron Shatila, sorry.
[00:17:03]  And that case was filed and predictably the Belgian authorities just kind of changed the law.
[00:17:08]  Yeah.
[00:17:08]  Yeah.
[00:17:09]  So that Sharon got void.
[00:17:10]  Yeah.
[00:17:10]  Okay.
[00:17:11]  So that he could avoid accountability.
[00:17:14]  And then, you know, when the when the genocide started, they Diyab and his colleagues wanted to kind of restart the legal strategy.
[00:17:24]  And so they started the Hindrajab Foundation, which is named after Hindrajab, who, as many listeners will probably remember, was a six-year-old girl who was murdered along with members of her family in late January 2024 as they were driving south.
[00:17:43]  They were fleeing northern Gaza after one of the numerous evacuation orders.
[00:17:48]  Their car came under fire from, I believe, an Israeli tank.
[00:17:53]  And it was just sprayed with like 300-something bullets.
[00:17:59]  It killed the family members that she was with.
[00:18:02]  And ultimately, it was just her alone in the car begging for help over the phone.
[00:18:07]  The Palestinian Red Crescent dispatched an ambulance to go and get her.
[00:18:11]  And once they arrived at the scene, they too came under fire.
[00:18:15]  And no one was allowed on the scene for weeks at a time because the Israelis wanted to cover it up.
[00:18:22]  And they first claimed, oh, this didn't happen at all.
[00:18:24]  We had no troops in the area.
[00:18:26]  And then once people were finally allowed on the scene, I think two weeks later, they saw all the bodies of the ambulance workers of Hind and her family.
[00:18:34]  And they were just riddled with bullets.
[00:18:37]  And the car, I think the ambulance had exploded.
[00:18:41]  And there was just, there's obviously no denying what had happened.
[00:18:47]  Part of the reason that was such an arresting incident for, I think, a lot of people is because she's on the phone, listening to a little girl's phone call after her family has just been killed in front of her, like pleading for help.
[00:19:00]  And then also, you know, with the now knowledge that like, and pretty much immediately afterwards as well, that the people sent to help her were also executed by soldiers.
[00:19:11]  Yeah.
[00:19:12]  And so, you know, the name is, you know, the reason the foundation adopted the name is that her murder is so indicative of just countless events or just uncounted events like this throughout the course of the genocide.
[00:19:28]  And they do it so brazenly.
[00:19:30]  Yeah.
[00:19:31]  She's on the phone and they just, and they're just shooting up a child and killing the ambulance workers who are coming to get them.
[00:19:37]  And then they try to deny it.
[00:19:38]  And then they say, well, we looked into it and no one was there.
[00:19:41]  And no one's been held accountable.
[00:19:43]  And so, you know, the organization started precisely to hold these low-level soldiers accountable.
[00:19:52]  The people who killed Hindrajab and everyone like her.
[00:19:57]  You know, like Netanyahu didn't murder Hindrajab.
[00:20:00]  Netanyahu didn't give the direct order to murder Hindrajab.
[00:20:03]  These are just the maniac Israeli soldiers on the ground who are operating with complete operational impunity and killing everyone in sight.
[00:20:10]  And these are the guys who are not captured by things like the International Criminal Court and who need to be held to account because the culture of impunity goes from Netanyahu down to like the lowest like level 18-year-old conscript.
[00:20:23]  Yeah, who is also a sergeant major.
[00:20:24]  Yeah, no, I mean, this is so interesting to me because it seems like such a like, how do you even legally maneuver all of this, right?
[00:20:34]  Like, what is available to like across the world?
[00:20:38]  Because obviously, you can't go after these guys in Israel, right?
[00:20:42]  But across the world, obviously, all different countries have different, not just like different laws.
[00:20:47]  That's an interesting thing for me to say, but also respect international law at different, you know, to different degrees and have different political pressures.
[00:20:57]  And so, like, how do you guys kind of maneuver all of that when you're trying to build these cases?
[00:21:02]  Yeah, so, well, first and foremost, it is important that these people will not be held to account in Israel.
[00:21:08]  Yeah.
[00:21:09]  Because there's an issue in international law called complementarity, which is that if you have to exhaust measures in the local jurisdiction, often that's the case.
[00:21:21]  And what that means is that if the local jurisdiction is bringing in its own investigation or is willing to or is trying to, you kind of have to let them go through that process.
[00:21:31]  But it's become like very, very clear forever, but also particularly now that they're not going to do that.
[00:21:37]  In Israel.
[00:21:38]  In Israel.
[00:21:39]  Yeah.
[00:21:39]  Like no, not one single soldier in Israel has even been, to my knowledge, brought before a court, let alone arrested and convicted.
[00:21:46]  Not a single soldier?
[00:21:48]  For crimes in Gaza.
[00:21:49]  Yeah.
[00:21:50]  There was one guy who was convicted for, I forget, it's called like misconduct or something for the torture in Steit Aman, and he got seven months.
[00:22:01]  Yeah.
[00:22:01]  Yeah.
[00:22:01]  Seven months.
[00:22:02]  Seven months.
[00:22:03]  I think he maybe didn't serve all of it either.
[00:22:05]  No, I mean, that's the thing that even a cursory observation of the Israeli legal system, especially vis-a-vis.
[00:22:13]  Now I'm trying to sound like a lawyer here.
[00:22:16]  It's in your blood.
[00:22:16]  Armed conflict.
[00:22:19]  Okay.
[00:22:20]  He's allowed to say, listen, if you could see this guy.
[00:22:25]  But I mean, this happens so frequently that it's like, it's almost impossible to not find an example from like the past.
[00:22:31]  Like that fucking, that, that settler guy.
[00:22:33]  Right.
[00:22:33]  Yeah.
[00:22:34]  Yeah.
[00:22:34]  Who just who just murdered someone on camera?
[00:22:37]  Yeah.
[00:22:38]  Like cut, shut and dry case, shut and dry, shut and closed case, cut and dry case.
[00:22:45]  Well, it was cut and like all over social media and media.
[00:22:49]  Exactly.
[00:22:50]  You know, just shoot someone on camera, arrested or taken in, and then just let go.
[00:22:55]  I mean, this is just, and that's somebody who is not even a like uniform member of the IDF or anything, although he's the full backing of the IDF.
[00:23:04]  I mean, for the IDF, it's there's, I mean, countries oftentimes fail to prosecute, or I don't know, failed is the right word there, but choose not to prosecute their own soldiers for war crimes.
[00:23:17]  With oftentimes a big reason being morale.
[00:23:20]  And that is actually a huge, huge, huge thing in Israel with the government being seen as having basically everyone's back no matter the situation.
[00:23:28]  Yeah.
[00:23:28]  And because there's, again, like a top to bottom culture of impunity, which is also a top-to-bottom culture of committing genocide.
[00:23:39]  Yeah.
[00:23:40]  When you're committing a genocide, it's always the vast, like a vast undertaking of the entire state.
[00:23:45]  Yeah.
[00:23:45]  It's not just, I think.
[00:23:47]  Roe Hilberg in his is like this huge book on the Holocaust, he says, you know, the Holocaust was not really a matter of a directive, but of all of the organs of the state acting in like a cooperative spirit to achieve a single goal.
[00:24:02]  And I think that's exactly what we're seeing in Israel.
[00:24:05]  But yeah, to get back to your question about how we navigate the international scene, I think it's, we're not doing international trials.
[00:24:15]  Right.
[00:24:16]  We're specifically doing national trials is what we're after.
[00:24:20]  You know, for national trials, you have like the ICJ, but that's only between states.
[00:24:23]  It's not criminal.
[00:24:25]  You have the ICC, which moves very, very slowly.
[00:24:28]  Sure.
[00:24:29]  Is very under-resourced and political, right?
[00:24:32]  I mean, all of them are, but this is.
[00:24:35]  But because of where their funding comes from and them being subject to sanctions and them not being a state with any kind of clout on the international level, they're especially subject to political pressure and generally just don't have, yeah, they don't have the resources or the time to go after a large number of perpetrators.
[00:24:57]  They've only ever, they've only filed against Netanyahu and Galan, and it's been two years of this.
[00:25:01]  And there's been many more guys who even for like the ICC threshold of just the worst of the worst, the highest ranking, many more guys who should fall under that ambit, right?
[00:25:11]  You know, Smotrich, Ben Gavir, Yehuda Vak.
[00:25:14]  Instead, they just come and speak here in America.
[00:25:16]  Right, yeah.
[00:25:17]  And just invite them to our university.
[00:25:18]  Well, no, instead, Ben Gavir, who is, I mean, I would say a Goebbelsian, if not Hitlerian figure, you know, he spoke at 770.
[00:25:30]  I guess that would be more correct.
[00:25:32]  You know, he spoke at 770 Crown Heights, and then that was reframed when there was protesters there.
[00:25:36]  And, you know, those guys, the young men of the neighborhood rioted against the protesters there and against some women walking around.
[00:25:44]  It was framed as like this anti-Semitic incident that happened.
[00:25:48]  When it's like, you have somebody right there who is like, even those Zionists who, like the Henmazigs of the world, find stuff to defend.
[00:25:57]  Yeah, the soft ones.
[00:25:59]  Yeah.
[00:25:59]  I mean, it's ridiculous.
[00:26:01]  But yeah, so it's the ICC has like very little.
[00:26:04]  Right.
[00:26:04]  I mean, how many divisions does the ICC have?
[00:26:08]  I don't even know.
[00:26:08]  Not that many.
[00:26:09]  Yeah.
[00:26:09]  Right?
[00:26:10]  Oh, military divisions.
[00:26:14]  And then, so the only other like international thing that could happen is a special tribunal like with the ICTY or the ICTR, but those get authorized by the Security Council.
[00:26:23]  And who's on the Security Council, right?
[00:26:24]  The United States, England.
[00:26:27]  They're not going to do that.
[00:26:28]  So the only real way to kind of get accountability for basically anyone, but especially low-ranking soldiers, is to pursue them in national courts under different theories of jurisdiction.
[00:26:42]  And when we say national courts, we mean one, that they are applying international law, but through their domestic legal systems.
[00:26:49]  The United States has incorporated the Genocide Convention into its domestic law.
[00:26:54]  I see.
[00:26:54]  So the Genocide Convention is federal law.
[00:26:56]  Yeah.
[00:26:56]  And so you don't need to go to international court to enforce the Genocide Convention.

=== Dossier on Thousand War Crimes (02:10) ===

[00:27:00]  You can arrest someone for violations of the Genocide Convention in the United States under U.S. law, just as an example.
[00:27:07]  Theoretically.
[00:27:07]  Yeah, it's not going to happen.
[00:27:09]  But theoretically, you could do it if you had the political will.
[00:27:13]  Right.
[00:27:15]  So, you know, we kind of operate on three tiers.
[00:27:21]  So the first year, I'd say I'll go in reverse order of importance for the work we do.
[00:27:27]  The first year is we give a lot of information to the ICC.
[00:27:29]  You know, we have like a really incredible research team that is able to track these guys as they commit crimes in Gaza.
[00:27:36]  And so we know like what unit was operating in the Netzerim corridor during these weeks.
[00:27:41]  And we know who they killed.
[00:27:44]  And we know then also where these guys go when they fly around the world.
[00:27:48]  And so we kind of give that information to the ICC.
[00:27:51]  One of the first big things we did was we filed this big dossier, this big complaint of like a thousand soldiers.
[00:27:57]  Yeah, that was like one of the original sort of like missions you guys had, right?
[00:28:02]  Right, yeah.
[00:28:03]  But then, again, that doesn't really, they say thank you and they are hopefully doing something with it.
[00:28:11]  But again, they missed it.
[00:28:12]  It feels more like due diligence than anything else, right?
[00:28:14]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:28:15]  Like it's a thousand guys?
[00:28:18]  Yeah, a thousand guys.
[00:28:19]  The dossier is a thousand different guys.
[00:28:21]  When did you guys put this in?
[00:28:23]  That one was January.
[00:28:26]  That was before it was even formally called the Hindrajat Foundation, I think.
[00:28:29]  Think of how many war crimes you guys have to be doing to have a foundation that's basically all volunteer be able to give a dossier on a thousand individual people like that.
[00:28:41]  And that's like, that's like nothing.
[00:28:43]  Yeah, it's nothing.
[00:28:44]  There's so many guys.
[00:28:45]  Yeah.
[00:28:46]  It's the whole state, right?
[00:28:47]  And we're so far, because of resource and like capacity things, like we're just focused on Gaza.
[00:28:52]  But they're doing war crimes in Lebanon.
[00:28:54]  They're doing war crimes in Syria.
[00:28:56]  The stuff in the West Bank technically goes as a war crimes.
[00:28:58]  It's an occupation.
[00:29:00]  So there's a lot more to cover.
[00:29:03]  So that's, okay, so that's the first year.
[00:29:06]  The second tier is against guys we call traveling soldiers.

=== War Crimes and Impunity (05:20) ===

[00:29:10]  And these are people who are Israeli nationals or nationals of another state, but they're not in their home country.
[00:29:19]  They're traveling around.
[00:29:20]  It's usually between tours and Gaza.
[00:29:22]  Israelis love to go on holiday to specifically to Latin America and Southeast Asia.
[00:29:30]  And everyone's seen those videos of them getting beaten up in Thailand.
[00:29:34]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:29:35]  Oh, I've seen that.
[00:29:36]  Yeah, they're very much not liked around the world and all the countries they go to.
[00:29:40]  So wait, I do want to just, for our listeners who are just coming into this, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, no idea what's going on.
[00:29:45]  Can you explain why?
[00:29:47]  Why they're not liked in those countries?
[00:29:49]  Okay, a great example is I was in, a few years ago, I was in Bosnia, and I was talking to this girl, and she grew up in rural Chile.
[00:29:59]  And she was telling me how much she hated Israelis.
[00:30:03]  And I'm like, same, but why?
[00:30:06]  That's interesting.
[00:30:07]  And she said that one time when she was pretty young, she was, her car broke down, her driving with her family.
[00:30:14]  Her car broke down on the side of the road in this area that was very dangerous for like mudslide reasons or like some kind of like geographical reasons.
[00:30:22]  Like you wouldn't want to be there with young children for very long.
[00:30:24]  And it's pretty remote.
[00:30:26]  And this van drives by and they were able to flag it down and it's full of Israelis.
[00:30:31]  Her dad walks up to them and is like, hey, can you guys help us out?
[00:30:35]  We like need a spare tire or need a jumper cable or whatever it was.
[00:30:40]  And instead of helping them out, they're just like go like, fuck you, fuck you, and drive away.
[00:30:45]  And that is, you know, she was telling me that everyone in where she's from kind of hates Israelis because that is very typical behavior.
[00:30:53]  Or in Thailand, they're like handsy and rude with women and they get assault, like they assault people and then they get beaten up.
[00:31:00]  And yeah.
[00:31:00]  I mean, let's listen.
[00:31:02]  I have, I'm not an expert on this by any means, but from what I can understand, I'm a man of the world and I love everybody.
[00:31:09]  It's true.
[00:31:10]  You're very worldly.
[00:31:11]  Very worldly.
[00:31:12]  And I, however, I'm not too versed in some of these areas.
[00:31:15]  Like I've never been to South America, never been to Thailand, particularly where Israelis hang out, but taya.
[00:31:20]  But from what I understand from talking to many people is that English travelers often look down upon, especially in certain areas like British tourists.
[00:31:34]  Yeah.
[00:31:35]  Oh, yeah.
[00:31:35]  Everyone's favorite.
[00:31:36]  Everyone loves the British tourists.
[00:31:37]  But people also, and I recognize this even from just being in San Francisco, I found Israeli tourists to be exceptionally rude.
[00:31:45]  And I think that is, like, let's be honest.
[00:31:48]  Listen, there's other countries that say this stereotype as well.
[00:31:52]  But Israelis are pretty fucking rude people.
[00:31:54]  And I think that doesn't translate well when you're traveling, specifically like you're, you know, you're on the beach in Thailand.
[00:32:01]  You're on day three of MDMA, and some guy is going like, whoa, to your girlfriend.
[00:32:06]  You know, and thus has, you know, given rise to many a minorly viral video of Israelis getting beat up there.
[00:32:12]  Yeah.
[00:32:13]  And also, you know, it's not unrelated to what's happening in Gaza.
[00:32:16]  No.
[00:32:17]  Which is to say, I mean, one, like, they are just very, having spent a decent amount of time in Israel when I was much younger.
[00:32:23]  They are just very rude and they're kind of like proud of it being part of their culture.
[00:32:26]  They're like, oh, we're just very direct and we are kind of rude.
[00:32:28]  We'll cut in line, but that's just, you know, that's how we are because we're all about mishbacha, whatever.
[00:32:33]  And, but it's also like, it's also part and parcel with the culture of impunity, where they're used to for forever, for as long as there has been in Israel, they're used to committing heinous war crimes and no one's stopping them and getting away with everything.
[00:32:48]  And so you get these like 18-year-olds who go join the military and then get stationed in the West Bank and get to, you know, beat up on little kids or murder them for throwing rocks.
[00:32:58]  And they're told this is great and nothing happens to them.
[00:33:01]  And there's like, there's also this culture of machismo as well.
[00:33:04]  Yeah.
[00:33:05]  And then they finish their service a couple years later, a few years later, and they go traveling.
[00:33:10]  And that's the life they're used to.
[00:33:12]  And so they go to this place.
[00:33:13]  Like, I can do whatever I want.
[00:33:14]  And also they're like crazy racist.
[00:33:17]  Yeah.
[00:33:17]  So they go to Latin America, they go to Southeast Asia.
[00:33:19]  They like are looking at these people and not really seeing them as people and bringing that whole impunity with them.
[00:33:26]  And they just cause trouble.
[00:33:28]  Well, I mean, that's going to come naturally, right?
[00:33:30]  Like, say you're an IDF soldier station in the West Bank or whatever.
[00:33:33]  You roll around with your buddies in an armored vehicle.
[00:33:36]  Anybody fucks with you.
[00:33:37]  You pull out a gun on them.
[00:33:39]  You fucking, you know, you bust into their house.
[00:33:41]  You arrest anybody.
[00:33:42]  You shoot anybody you want.
[00:33:44]  That mindset will stay with you even after getting out of uniform or whatever.
[00:33:50]  And so it's kind of no wonder that these kind of things happen.
[00:33:53]  I mean, I think it really is sort of part and parcel with the rudeness that is kind of in the culture.
[00:34:00]  But you're saying too, I mean, being born into a segregated society is going to completely warp your outlook on the rest of the world.
[00:34:09]  Yeah.
[00:34:11]  Because you also have that like, you don't even have really like the lip service towards any kind of like equality that you might have in other societies, which might also be racist, but don't have that specific system of apartheid in them.
[00:34:23]  And like when Iran was shooting missiles, Israel and what people are calling like the 12-day war or like Trump is calling it that or something.

=== Justification and Rat Line (15:24) ===

[00:34:31]  You had those videos of them like not letting the Thai migrant workers come into the bomb shelters.
[00:34:37]  Yeah.
[00:34:37]  Right.
[00:34:37]  It's like not just against Palestinians.
[00:34:39]  It's against everyone.
[00:34:40]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:34:41]  It's also against me, like, you know, Mizrahi Jews.
[00:34:44]  Yeah.
[00:34:44]  And Ethiopian Jews.
[00:34:46]  But anyway, yeah, so traveling soldiers travel around the world, largely to Latin America and Southeast Asia.
[00:34:55]  And when they're there, we know about it because we can track them often via social media.
[00:35:04]  And because one, they post about their war crimes, but then they're also posting Instagram stories.
[00:35:08]  We talked a lot about that.
[00:35:09]  Like, I'm in Brazil now.
[00:35:10]  It's like, okay, great.
[00:35:11]  You're in Brazil.
[00:35:14]  Brazil has jurisdiction over you now for the crime of genocide, for war crimes, crimes against humanity.
[00:35:18]  That's almost everywhere.
[00:35:20]  It's kind of built into national laws that you have in the United States too, weirdly enough, you have jurisdiction just based on physical presence for these like the most serious international crimes.
[00:35:31]  There's a name for that, right?
[00:35:32]  It's called a universal jurisdiction.
[00:35:34]  And universal jurisdiction exists as like a principle in international law, but then it has also been codified in certain treaties.
[00:35:44]  It's in the Geneva Convention, Article 146 of Geneva 4.
[00:35:47]  And then it's also in the other three, but I don't remember the numbers in the other three, but it's a common article between all four Geneva conventions that states have an obligation to not just prosecute, but like to look for, to search for anyone who is alleged to have committed grave breaches within their jurisdiction and to bring them to trial.
[00:36:08]  So to actively go after.
[00:36:10]  So that's very different.
[00:36:11]  Yeah, it's not just that like, oh, you can.
[00:36:12]  It's like you shall go after them.
[00:36:15]  Yeah.
[00:36:16]  And it's regardless of nationality.
[00:36:18]  So universal jurisdiction is in Geneva.
[00:36:20]  It's in the Convention Against Torture.
[00:36:22]  It's in the Genocide Convention.
[00:36:24]  And then it's also, again, in national laws.
[00:36:27]  So when a soldier travels, again, for example, to Brazil, Brazil has jurisdiction just based on their physical presence.
[00:36:36]  We prepare a filing, which is a dossier of evidence.
[00:36:40]  And then the crimes that this person committed and the kind of legal justification for jurisdiction, present it to a prosecutor and say, go get them.
[00:36:51]  And this often they just sit on their hands so they don't have to do anything.
[00:36:58]  Sometimes the Israelis get wind of this and the soldier flees or as what happened actually in Brazil, they are evacuated by the Israeli government to Argentina.
[00:37:08]  Yeah, let's clarify.
[00:37:09]  They have a rat line.
[00:37:10]  They have a rat line because this happened twice.
[00:37:12]  Two Israeli soldiers in two different cases that were both filed by the Hindu Job Foundation.
[00:37:20]  They were spirited out of Brazil clandestinely because they were facing war crimes charges to Argentina.
[00:37:29]  Yeah.
[00:37:30]  Which is just, I mean, my God.
[00:37:32]  The rhyming is a lot.
[00:37:33]  Historical rhyming is a little much.
[00:37:34]  But then they were also spirited out of Argentina back to Israel when you guys opened case against them there.
[00:37:39]  Yes.
[00:37:39]  And this also happened.
[00:37:40]  So did they keep posting that they were in other countries?
[00:37:43]  I'm pretty sure.
[00:37:44]  I don't actually remember how we found out that they were in the other country, but I wouldn't be surprised if they just posted like in Argentina just on their Instagram story again.
[00:37:52]  But this happened also in Cyprus as well.
[00:37:55]  Yeah.
[00:37:55]  And I think Sri Lanka was another place in which they were spirited away.
[00:38:01]  Yeah, the Cypress stuff, there's been a lot of they love going to Cyprus.
[00:38:04]  They love going to Cyprus.
[00:38:05]  Ayanapa.
[00:38:07]  Surprised Cyprus would bring the case against them.
[00:38:11]  They have to, right?
[00:38:12]  I'm going to log out.
[00:38:12]  Yeah, but also like, well, like sometimes it's just that we file it.
[00:38:18]  Right.
[00:38:18]  And nothing, it's not even in the investigation stage yet.
[00:38:21]  They just freak out and run away.
[00:38:23]  Yeah, I mean, I'll be real.
[00:38:24]  If I was like on vacation somewhere and someone filed the charges against me for war crimes, even if there wasn't like a cop at my door, I'd probably be like, all right, I'm going to.
[00:38:34]  You're finding that rat line?
[00:38:35]  Yeah.
[00:38:36]  So let's go back because what we're talking about in Brazil, this actually did really happen.
[00:38:40]  Yes.
[00:38:41]  Can you talk a little bit about that case?
[00:38:43]  Yeah, sure.
[00:38:45]  So there's a guy in Brazil and he's all nasty characters, right?
[00:38:52]  He was a nasty character, just like everyone else.
[00:38:55]  He was guilty of, he was blowing up a lot of civilian property.
[00:39:01]  Do you, you guys, of course, remember, and you see so fewer of these videos.
[00:39:06]  What a weird way to phrase that, but you know what I mean.
[00:39:07]  You see far less of these videos now, but especially at the beginning of the war, I guess now they've actually just blown up every building.
[00:39:14]  So that's probably why he is doing this.
[00:39:16]  But there would be these guys who'd be like doing shout outs, standing on some sort of like hilltop or whatever, some vista, and then doing like a Wiley Coyote, you know, push the plunger down on the bomb thing, and then blowing up like an entire row of houses.
[00:39:31]  And there would be no like justification, like military justification.
[00:39:34]  They would say like, you know, this is for, you know, some person who got killed or whatever on October 7th, or this is for this, or, or even just something, you know, maybe religious or even a shout out to some friends or whatever.
[00:39:46]  I mean, it was just, it was wanton destruction.
[00:39:48]  Yes.
[00:39:49]  And doing it for reprisal, which a lot of them do.
[00:39:52]  They'll say this is, you know, revenge for our fallen comrade.
[00:39:56]  That's also an independent war crime.
[00:39:57]  Right.
[00:39:58]  In addition to just blowing up their property, doing reprisals.
[00:40:01]  So blowing up the property counts as a war crime.
[00:40:03]  Yes, because you're blowing up civilian property without military justification.
[00:40:06]  Yeah.
[00:40:06]  And one of the ways you know it's without military justification is because they've done a planned demolition of someone's house.
[00:40:12]  There's no one in it.
[00:40:13]  If it was occupied by fighters, which would be kind of the only justification, then you couldn't go around to each floor and plant your chargers and then film yourself laughing while you blow it up.
[00:40:22]  Yeah.
[00:40:22]  I mean, to keep in mind, ladies and gentlemen, we're not talking here about somebody like shooting an apartment block with a tank or whatever and it coming down.
[00:40:30]  We're talking about people going in and wiring the buildings with explosives, walking through people's bedrooms, putting bombs up, and then leaving and blowing it up.
[00:40:39]  So this is.
[00:40:40]  Not just blowing it up, filming it.
[00:40:42]  Yeah, filming it and putting it on fucking Instagram.
[00:40:44]  Yeah.
[00:40:44]  Yeah.
[00:40:44]  And your fucking Instagram stories blowing it up.
[00:40:47]  Which is why it's like real easy kind of to assemble these dossiers of evidence a lot of the time, because it's just like, here's a video of him saying, I'm going to do the war crime, and then he does the war crime.
[00:40:57]  And you're like, that's kind of all you need.
[00:40:59]  But also, it's also important to clarify here that, so blowing up civilian property without military justification is a war crime, as is blowing up like civilian infrastructure, like mosques and schools, also a war crime, blowing up hospitals, also a war crime, and et cetera.
[00:41:15]  But these are also all acts of genocide.
[00:41:18]  Destroying all of the dwellings in Gaza is an act of genocide.
[00:41:24]  It is like creating conditions of life that will bring about like the external, I can't remember the exact wording in the convention, but like creating the conditions of life to bring about the extermination of the people.
[00:41:34]  So, you know, while in the context of the ongoing genocide, you know, blowing up an unoccupied house seems minor compared to the murder of Hind Rajab, it is also one of the main ways in which the genocide is being carried out.
[00:41:48]  And so in that regard, it's not just the infantry and the Air Force, but also the Engineering Corps play an extremely important role in this.
[00:41:57]  And so one of the things we do, and I think this is important because it also starts to build not just a factual narrative, but a legal narrative, is that when you see these guys blowing up a house, they are committing genocide.
[00:42:11]  And so we charge them with genocide along with the war crimes.
[00:42:16]  Basically, always, as far as I can remember.
[00:42:19]  So yeah, this guy was blowing up a lot of civilian property.
[00:42:21]  We had a lot of videos of him doing it.
[00:42:24]  We had a great lawyer in Brazil, and she filed the case, and it went to the investigation stage.
[00:42:33]  And as soon as it got to the investigation stage, which is the first thing before they're going to issue a warrant, and I think had it progressed, had he not fled, it would have gotten there because they had all the evidence.
[00:42:46]  But as soon as it got to the investigation stage, he somehow got tipped off because it was secret up until then.
[00:42:51]  And then the Israeli government got tipped off and he was able to leave.
[00:42:56]  Maybe right-wing elements on the state, I don't know.
[00:43:00]  But yeah, I mean, that was the Brazil case.
[00:43:03]  And this was a very successful instance of the traveling soldier strategy.
[00:43:09]  Because even though he fled, that's also part of the strategy.
[00:43:15]  It's like you want to make the world feel real small to these guys.
[00:43:18]  So that's another thing.
[00:43:19]  I mean, this guy, Yuval Vajdani, was on what he called his dream trip to the beaches of Bahia.
[00:43:28]  Bahia?
[00:43:29]  Bahia.
[00:43:30]  Bahia.
[00:43:31]  And I mean, to me, that is, I think, let's say an added bonus of this is that it becomes your dream trip is now canceled.
[00:43:41]  Which is, I mean, again, it also sounds small when you put it like that, but like the reality is, is that the Israelis, I think more so than at least in my lifetime, the world is getting smaller for them, right?
[00:43:56]  And a lot of they are continually losing, and unfortunately, not in a way that has made an appreciable difference yet.
[00:44:03]  But the state is losing legitimacy on some level on the international stage, but also especially even in America, but especially with individuals.
[00:44:14]  And people just don't like Israelis anymore.
[00:44:17]  I mean, it's not synonymous with like this plucky, you know, startup nation.
[00:44:21]  Yeah, startup nation or you know, it's a it's a tough country in a bad neighborhood.
[00:44:25]  It's it's synonymous with you know standing in front of a line of civilian apartment buildings and blowing them up with a uh with a plunger.
[00:44:34]  And uh yeah, and so like, I mean, I kind of like that part, but he was he was sort of spirited away in like the middle of the night or whatever, right?
[00:44:43]  Yeah.
[00:44:43]  Okay.
[00:44:44]  And so, yeah, when I say like he's a pretty successful example, um, he the spiriting of the way is is a sign that there might be consequences.
[00:44:57]  And this has made them afraid.
[00:44:58]  I mean, they've started asking interviewers to blur the faces of soldiers and not put their names.
[00:45:03]  And not put their names.
[00:45:04]  They've asked soldiers not to put videos on TikTok and Instagram anymore, which thankfully has not worked.
[00:45:10]  Yeah.
[00:45:10]  Because these guys love doing it.
[00:45:12]  They love doing it.
[00:45:12]  And we love that they do it.
[00:45:16]  But yeah, I mean, that was the Brazil case.
[00:45:19]  And also, part of the traveling soldier strategy is that it's global, is that it's everywhere.
[00:45:26]  And it's, and because, like, one, doing it everywhere helps to kind of articulate this really robust position on universal jurisdiction, which has been relatively dormant historically.
[00:45:38]  Well, since Pinochet.
[00:45:39]  Right.
[00:45:39]  They use it a little bit in Europe against some guys in Syria.
[00:45:44]  Oh, yeah.
[00:45:45]  That's true.
[00:45:45]  And like the Germans, I think, prosecuted a torturer.
[00:45:48]  Yeah.
[00:45:49]  And it was kind of used.
[00:45:52]  It was invoked in some Nazi trials.
[00:45:55]  But relatively dormant.
[00:45:58]  And we want it to be used against Israelis.
[00:46:00]  And this is a fight that's like, it's going on during the genocide because it's very urgent.
[00:46:05]  But jurisdiction doesn't expire for genocide.
[00:46:09]  And it doesn't expire really for war crimes.
[00:46:12]  And we're going to chase these guys as long as we can, as long as they're alive.
[00:46:15]  So getting the ball rolling now and having states understand that they should and can be using this universal jurisdiction mechanism is extremely important to us.
[00:46:26]  And the more it gets articulated, the more it actually just starts to kind of like become an actionable principle.
[00:46:32]  Part of the way international law works is through state action.
[00:46:35]  That's what makes it be a thing.
[00:46:37]  So that's part of it.
[00:46:39]  The other part is that in order to chip away at the culture of impunity and to dissuade volunteers from going over there and signing up, which is a huge problem.
[00:46:48]  It's like here in America, especially, you got to make it, you got to make it so they can't, like, imagine moving to Israel.
[00:46:55]  And I was like, you have to stay here forever because if you leave, you're going to jail.
[00:47:00]  People will really go back to jail.
[00:47:02]  I would take the bid.
[00:47:03]  I would take the jail.
[00:47:03]  Yeah, I'd take the jail.
[00:47:04]  But like, that's part of what we're trying to do with that aspect of the work is make the entire world inhospitable to these guys.
[00:47:16]  And as you said, it's starting to work.
[00:47:19]  I think partially because of what we're doing and partially just because they're so heinous that the world does want nothing to do with them.
[00:47:25]  There was this great piece that Wynet News, which if you guys at home don't know that website, it's where I get all my news.
[00:47:34]  I got a lot of interesting articles.
[00:47:35]  I get all my international news from WyNet News.
[00:47:38]  But they put out this great piece after the case in Brazil.
[00:47:42]  It's called, this is a headline, A Guide for IDF soldiers.
[00:47:46]  Here's how to act if arrested abroad and what to check before flight.
[00:47:51]  Following the escape of an IDF soldier from Brazil and the arrest request for another soldier in Chile, concerns are growing about the legal threats IDF personnel face while traveling overseas.
[00:48:03]  Are officers at greater risk?
[00:48:05]  What should soldiers check before their flight?
[00:48:07]  And how should they respond to questions after landing?
[00:48:10]  Here's what you need to know.
[00:48:11]  I love it.
[00:48:11]  It's like a little BuzzFeed article for how to escape legal consequences.
[00:48:18]  But it's funny, you know, there's so many kind of dumb questions they're asking a defense lawyer at the ICC.
[00:48:25]  And, you know, a lot of them are like, oh, you know, how do you act?
[00:48:29]  If you go abroad, what do you do?
[00:48:30]  And it's just like, you should call the consulate.
[00:48:32]  You know, basic kind of, I suppose, advice.
[00:48:35]  Does sharing footage online increase legal risk?
[00:48:39]  Definitely.
[00:48:40]  Soldiers who post online, post videos online provide hostile organizations, that's you, with potential evidence to support suspicions against them.
[00:48:50]  Is it dangerous for a soldier who served in Gaza to travel abroad?
[00:48:53]  The risk stems from the principle of universal jurisdiction.
[00:48:56]  So it goes on.
[00:48:57]  It kind of is repeating a bunch of this stuff.
[00:48:58]  Could I be arrested abroad for actions in Gaza?
[00:49:01]  Evidence linking an individual soldier to illegal acts would be required.
[00:49:06]  It goes on, it says that you should just check to like check with the international laws, like check with the laws in the country that you plan to visit, which is a crazy thing to say.
[00:49:17]  But my favorite, this is like my favorite thing.
[00:49:19]  I can't even, can insurance cover arrests abroad?
[00:49:25]  He goes, I'm not aware of any insurance company that provides coverage for arrests abroad related to alleged criminal acts.
[00:49:33]  If such an option were to exist, premiums would likely be prohibitively expensive.
[00:49:39]  And I'm just thinking about like you're, you know, you're booking your fucking flight in Israel and, you know, it says at the end, like, do you want to add travel insurance?
[00:49:48]  And it's like for, you know, crimes against humanity.
[00:49:53]  I mean, you say it's a three-tier strategy.

=== Underreported Abuses in Gaza (10:51) ===

[00:49:55]  And so one is going after these guys who are, you know, going to Tomorrowland Festival in Belgium or whatever.
[00:50:03]  But what is the and boom Belgium?
[00:50:06]  What is what are the other tiers?
[00:50:09]  So the first one was just the sharing of information with the ICC.
[00:50:11]  Yeah.
[00:50:12]  Second was the traveling soldiers.
[00:50:13]  And the third, which is the most important and also the kind of least splashy so far, is dual nationals.
[00:50:21]  Because there's a lot of people with dual citizenship who are serving in Gaza.
[00:50:26]  And sometimes they just have dual citizenship and they live in Israel.
[00:50:30]  Sometimes they're just volunteers.
[00:50:31]  Yeah.
[00:50:32]  Like for instance, like if you, like a lot of Jewish people can get citizenship in Germany, but you don't have to go live in Germany.
[00:50:38]  Right.
[00:50:38]  Yeah.
[00:50:39]  And like every Jewish person is theoretically entitled to citizenship in Israel.
[00:50:43]  Yeah.
[00:50:44]  Although, of course, like the way it would actually work is if I wanted to go get citizenship to Israel, which very, I do not want this.
[00:50:50]  Yes.
[00:50:50]  They would not let me do it.
[00:50:51]  I don't even think they would let me enter the country.
[00:50:54]  But yeah, so these are people who hold dual nationality.
[00:50:59]  And that means that jurisdiction is always just uncontroversial.
[00:51:04]  Like if they go home to, let's say there's a dual national, let's say he's Argentinian, right?
[00:51:09]  If he goes home to Argentina, they have jurisdiction, not based on his physical presence, but just because he's Argentinian.
[00:51:14]  So you don't need to file very quickly.
[00:51:17]  You can really take your time and wait for the right political moment.
[00:51:23]  You can really assemble massive, massive files, just keep on going until the time is right.
[00:51:29]  And so you can move much more slowly here.
[00:51:31]  And these are also cases in which I think it's much more likely to get an arrest because diplomatically, I think it's a little crazy is the right word.
[00:51:44]  It's like, I don't know, a little more risque to arrest just a foreign national under principle of universal jurisdiction.
[00:51:50]  It's kind of controversial still.
[00:51:52]  Well, and also Israel, like compared to a country like Nepal, can exercise a lot of weight.
[00:51:57]  Yeah, they will freak out, which is, to be clear, also part of the strategy.
[00:52:01]  Yeah.
[00:52:02]  Of course.
[00:52:02]  Which is we want them to freak out.
[00:52:04]  Yeah.
[00:52:04]  You know, we can't make you can't make Argentina cut off ties with Israel, but you can make Israel draw their ambassador and do a bunch of horrible things to Argentina that might make them reconsider their relationship if they were to arrest someone.
[00:52:15]  Yes.
[00:52:16]  But yeah, but it's much less controversial to arrest your own citizen for leaving your country to go commit genocide.
[00:52:23]  And so with these guys, there's a lot of stuff happening behind the scenes that I can't talk about because I don't want to burn any cases.
[00:52:34]  But these are the guys who I think we're most confident will be arrested and will be put in prison at some point.
[00:52:43]  Yeah.
[00:52:44]  And like fingers crossed this year, some nice things in the works.
[00:52:52]  But I like the sound of that.
[00:52:53]  But we'll see.
[00:52:54]  So that's the most important, but also the least splashy and least like, you know, that stuff hasn't made the news yet because it's still cooking.
[00:53:02]  I want to talk a little bit about the dossiers of evidence that you guys put together because I think, you know, I think everyone has been inundated with a lot of social media videos, whether it's, you know.
[00:53:26]  posted by actual IDF soldiers or just sort of like cobbled together of footage of what's going on in Gaza over the over the years.
[00:53:36]  But for people who haven't, I want to be like explicit kind of about what we're talking about and what you guys are compiling, because I do think it's really important.
[00:53:47]  You know, there's a reason why Israel is coming out and saying like, okay, you have to stop sharing stuff on social media.
[00:53:53]  That this was like part of the culture that you kind of explained of like within the IDF.
[00:54:00]  Because it makes it even more sort of, it's difficult for me to talk about it.
[00:54:07]  It makes it really somehow even more heinous.
[00:54:12]  There's a level of, you know, we were talking about this before we started recording, but this has never happened before, right?
[00:54:18]  Some of that is because of the technology, you know, of social media and just everyone kind of having the impulse to share everything.
[00:54:27]  But also because of the nature of the genocide, we've never seen anything like this before in, you know, in modern war crimes.
[00:54:36]  And so I just want to be really explicit about the stuff you guys are compiling and what you're seeing that these guys have put out there or are continuing to put out there for our listeners who haven't come across it.
[00:54:47]  Yeah.
[00:54:48]  So a lot of what it is, a lot of the videos, I say the majority of the videos that are published on social media are of people blowing up civilian property.
[00:54:57]  Yeah.
[00:54:57]  That's the thing they really love to record.
[00:54:59]  And they love to record that because, and this is like also great evidence, as we were saying earlier, that they are committing a war crime, is because it's safe, because there's no one around.
[00:55:08]  They like, you know, forcibly remove these people from their homes, kick them out, and then they like take up residence in these homes sometimes and they loot them very frequently.
[00:55:18]  This is kind of an underreported problem, is that they're just, they're stealing people's money and goods.
[00:55:24]  Yeah.
[00:55:25]  And women's clothing.
[00:55:26]  And women's clothing.
[00:55:27]  It sounds funny, but like there is a huge phenomenon of IDF soldiers wearing the underwear or dresses of women who are either dead or in somewhere in a refugee camp or who knows where, like taking pictures in like their underwear.
[00:55:46]  Like it's a joke.
[00:55:47]  Yeah.
[00:55:48]  They love to do that.
[00:55:49]  I think partially because of like machismo reasons.
[00:55:52]  Yeah.
[00:55:52]  Partially for like you know, military homo eroticism.
[00:55:57]  Of course.
[00:55:57]  And then partially because it's like a rape threat.
[00:56:00]  Yeah.
[00:56:01]  Which they also love to make both there and also anyone who's been to a Palestine protest here knows that Zionists here love to threaten you.
[00:56:10]  Yeah, they love to threaten you with being raped by somebody else.
[00:56:13]  Yes.
[00:56:14]  They're like, go to Gaza, you will be raped.
[00:56:16]  I'm like, is that, I don't know if they would rape me there.
[00:56:18]  I mean, an Israeli.
[00:56:19]  Yeah.
[00:56:20]  Right.
[00:56:21]  Significantly more likely that you will.
[00:56:23]  Yes.
[00:56:25]  So we have a lot of videos of that.
[00:56:27]  A lot of videos of the women's clothing stuff.
[00:56:31]  We have fewer videos of people like actually killing someone.
[00:56:38]  We have a lot of videos of people with and photos as well of people with Palestinians they've detained who are like will be like covered in bruises and blood and things like that.
[00:56:48]  And there's some people in particular who are like huge.
[00:56:50]  They'll have like huge archives of themselves next to all these like detained prisoners.
[00:56:54]  Yeah, who have also been stripped down to their underwear.
[00:56:57]  And so like that is.
[00:56:59]  It needs to be such a scandal.
[00:57:00]  I'm old enough to remember when video when photos like that scandalized the world, made the cover of magazines.
[00:57:06]  And it's interesting, like the dynamic is that because of the pervasiveness of them, they've just ceased to scandalize.
[00:57:12]  Which is scandal itself.
[00:57:15]  But yeah, so like this is evidence of like abusive detainees or oftentimes like abuse of civilians or we don't actually know necessarily if they are fighters or civilians, but it's kind of safe to assume they're civilians.
[00:57:26]  Yeah, well, because they say everybody's a fighter.
[00:57:28]  Exactly.
[00:57:28]  So theoretically, I don't think that Hamas has that many members.
[00:57:33]  That's one of the things that's been kind of, well, I mean, one of the innumerable failures of reporting is the pre-war estimates of Hamas's fighting strength was like 30 something thousand at the absolute max and like 20 something thousand at the low.
[00:57:51]  And the Israelis have routinely been like 40,000 fighters have been killed and like Hamas still has a bunch.
[00:57:57]  It's like, well, against your own estimate, it's like obviously not true.
[00:58:00]  Yeah.
[00:58:01]  Yeah.
[00:58:01]  It's really just very stupid.
[00:58:04]  Well, they do the classic American thing too of being like military age male equals Hamas.
[00:58:09]  Exactly.
[00:58:09]  And even the concept of military age male is such a crazy war on terror kind of slip.
[00:58:17]  Well, it's just advancement, I guess, in military linguistics because a military age male, you mean a 17-year-old?
[00:58:25]  Totally.
[00:58:26]  Okay.
[00:58:26]  Or a 48-year-old school, like it's it doesn't, it's meaningless, it's completely meaningless, and yeah, and like the U.S. was doing this shit in Vietnam constantly.
[00:58:35]  They'd like, yeah, they'd shoot up an entire village, everyone's VC, exactly, and they'd like put like a rifle next to them.
[00:58:39]  Be like, see, they don't even do that here.
[00:58:41]  No, yeah, they didn't want there was one kind of famous video where they did it, right?
[00:58:45]  You know what I'm talking about?
[00:58:46]  When they were in the hospital and they had like the box of dates and like an old pistol or something, yeah, they're like, This is a stronghold with detainees, they did it with detainees, like there was a bunch of guys in their underwear.
[00:58:55]  I mean, this is from like a year and a half ago, they had a bunch of guys in their underwear, and then they just like put an AK near them, and they're like, Well, right, he was like, He was sharing it for it, yeah, you know.
[00:59:04]  Um, so we have a lot of pictures of that.
[00:59:07]  Uh, what we don't have, and for reasons of just like, I think they're they're too busy to take the videos, but they would if they could, you don't have a lot of videos of them actively committing murder.
[00:59:16]  Well, that for that, also, the reality is, too, a lot of the videos are filmed on phone, yeah.
[00:59:22]  And if you're firing your gun, you're not gonna be using your phone, you're gonna be using a GoPro, and they might have the good sense to know that if the footage might not, right?
[00:59:30]  They're not the military's not issuing their GoPros.
[00:59:33]  Yeah, yeah, you have a lot of videos of people shooting machine guns just indiscriminately into homes, they don't know if they're occupied, yeah.
[00:59:40]  But so, for things like that, for like snipers or people like that, we our researchers will figure out what unit they're in and figure out where that unit was at what time, like on like down to the street that they were operating on, and then based on that information, be like, okay, so X number of people were murdered during this week while this unit was operating here, and now we have to do the work of figuring out who was in that unit.
[01:00:05]  And if that person was in that unit that was operating at the time that all of these people were murdered in like a kill zone in Netzarim, then it's very safe to say this guy probably murdered some people in Netsarim during that time period.
[01:00:16]  And you can include that in the filing, and you're going to want to do further investigation.
[01:00:21]  But I mean, crucially, what we're asking for is we give these filings to prosecutors who then have to launch an investigation.
[01:00:28]  And we never file anything unless it's kind of like ready for a prosecution, which is say if it's we have established a prima fascia case, but like they need to then do the investigation.
[01:00:39]  And in order to do that, they need to go arrest these guys and interrogate them and seize their phones because there's certainly some stuff on the phones, there's certainly some messages.

=== Dutch Authorities Investigate (08:08) ===

[01:00:47]  You know, sometimes they have text messages being like, I we have one from a sniper who's like, you know, four shots, zero misses, and he texted this to someone or posted this during a ceasefire.
[01:00:58]  So, right?
[01:00:59]  Um, so this is you know, this is one of the problems we continually run into with you know, people getting spirited away is we are just asking states over and over again.
[01:01:10]  It's like when we do the filing, take their passports, go get them, take their passports, or if you can't find them, put out a call at the airports, at the train stations, do not let them leave because the evidence is leaving with them.
[01:01:21]  So, this, I mean, this reminds me of what just happened in Belgium, right?
[01:01:25]  It was two members of the, is it Gavadi Brigade?
[01:01:29]  Yeah, I think it was them.
[01:01:30]  Yeah, no, it was.
[01:01:31]  The pronunciation I'm a little handsy on.
[01:01:34]  Who, classic, you know what, you love it, have been accused of numerous war crimes in Gaza.
[01:01:41]  They went to the Tomorrowland Festival in Boom, Belgium.
[01:01:46]  God knows what kind of atrocious sort of EDM they were listening to.
[01:01:54]  But European festivals, from what I gather from seeing pictures of like Glastonbury or whatever, people always have flags for some reason.
[01:02:03]  I don't know why the practice of this.
[01:02:04]  Maybe because they have all those tiny countries.
[01:02:06]  And like, you got to be sure, we're the Luxembourg contingent, but they were flying their brigade's flags there.
[01:02:12]  Yeah.
[01:02:13]  And somebody saw that.
[01:02:15]  Yep.
[01:02:16]  And was it you guys that saw that?
[01:02:17]  I think it was us.
[01:02:18]  Jesus Christ.
[01:02:20]  You guys saw that and filed charges with the, I guess, the Belgian courts who came to the festival.
[01:02:29]  Armed officers came to the festival and took these guys out.
[01:02:33]  Yeah.
[01:02:34]  Not took them out as in shot them.
[01:02:35]  I mean, took them out of the festival.
[01:02:37]  Physically removed them.
[01:02:38]  Yeah.
[01:02:39]  Physically removed them from the festival and interrogated them.
[01:02:42]  And this was actually a pretty big deal.
[01:02:45]  Yeah.
[01:02:45]  This was a huge deal.
[01:02:47]  And we were really, really excited about it because, one, it was in Europe, which has up until that moment been very reluctant to do anything to stop the genocide or to bring any Israeli soldier to account.
[01:03:04]  But also because they specifically did it under the principle of universal jurisdiction.
[01:03:08]  And that's a big deal for, you know, like the more states that do that, as I was saying earlier, the more states will feel comfortable doing it.
[01:03:19]  It very much helps that's a European state.
[01:03:21]  It's good that it's also not like maybe Belgium is marginal, but like not marginal in like a governmental sense.
[01:03:29]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:03:30]  In the sense it's like the heart of the EU is there.
[01:03:34]  And also they were arrested and interrogated and they did it very promptly.
[01:03:39]  And so that's a sign that like something has shifted in Belgium.
[01:03:42]  But unfortunately, they were released.
[01:03:45]  And this is fine.
[01:03:47]  They can not be in detention as long as you keep them in country.
[01:03:50]  I don't even actually know if they're still in country, but since then, the Belgians have referred the case to the ICC.
[01:04:00]  Is that good or bad?
[01:04:02]  Well, it's mostly bad.
[01:04:04]  Yeah.
[01:04:05]  In the sense that we want national courts to arrest these guys and try them under their national laws and put them in their domestic prisons for the crimes that they have committed.
[01:04:14]  And if they get referred to the ICC, then it's the state saying, oh, well, we did our part and now we're passing the buck to someone else who realistically is not going to be able to handle it in any meaningful amount of time.
[01:04:27]  So on the one hand, it's good because it means that the Belgian authorities recognize that these guys are international criminals who should be at The Hague.
[01:04:36]  And that, and they did do an investigation that brought them to this point.
[01:04:40]  And so that was a very promising step.
[01:04:43]  But we wish that they had kept them in country and put them through the national legal system.
[01:04:49]  Yeah.
[01:04:49]  Yeah.
[01:04:50]  I mean, that's also, this is kind of a little bit off topic, but was it Belgium where the Maccabees thing happened?
[01:04:57]  No, no, no.
[01:04:58]  That was in the Netherlands.
[01:04:59]  Okay, that was in the Netherlands.
[01:04:59]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:05:00]  Because you guys also filed charges there.
[01:05:02]  Yes, and then the footage was mysteriously lost.
[01:05:04]  Wait, what happened?
[01:05:05]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:05:06]  So, I mean, ladies and gentlemen, you might remember the sort of breathless reporting about these sort of mysterious pogroms that happened against innocent Israeli.
[01:05:18]  You're talking about the hooligans.
[01:05:19]  Well, football, let's say football fans who were traveling as tourists.
[01:05:23]  Friendly fans.
[01:05:24]  And a sort of narrative that became very, let's say, aggressive and then was that was everywhere.
[01:05:33]  I want to say that was everywhere.
[01:05:34]  I heard that from people that I wouldn't even think would hear that news when I heard that they were hearing that news.
[01:05:40]  I think the free press did like, you know, three weeks on it.
[01:05:44]  Oh, my God.
[01:05:45]  Every channel they could.
[01:05:47]  Maya Sulkit out there.
[01:05:49]  That was a huge fucking story.
[01:05:50]  But let's go back and what you're saying.
[01:05:52]  Let's explain it for our listeners who don't remember.
[01:05:54]  There were sort of football hooligan riots done by visiting Maccabee supporters at a football club in Israel.
[01:06:02]  And I want to be clear here, and this is no defense of Israel or Israelis.
[01:06:09]  If things ever change in this world and we get a more, let's say, a government that stand up for the people a little more, we're arresting all football hooligans because they are among if you've ever read Among the Thugs, you got to realize these people are crazy.
[01:06:26]  They're almost all just Nazis.
[01:06:28]  Yeah.
[01:06:28]  Or if they're not, they might as well be.
[01:06:30]  Right.
[01:06:30]  Yeah.
[01:06:31]  I just remember seeing Among the Thugs where like all these British guys go to Italy ostensibly to go to this game.
[01:06:36]  Do not go anywhere near the stadium and just destroy a neighborhood and like stab 15 people.
[01:06:41]  That's have nothing to do with football whatsoever.
[01:06:44]  But the so this is this is something that like there's certain clubs from certain bunch of different countries have like insane fans and Maccabees is one of them.
[01:06:51]  Yes.
[01:06:52]  And so these guys go to the Netherlands and they do their thing and the Netherlands has a rather large Arab population and thus there's Palestinian flags and also just people support or whatever.
[01:07:04]  There's Palestinian flags.
[01:07:05]  They're like all these footage of them just like going in neighborhoods and tearing down Palestinian flags, beating the shit out of people.
[01:07:13]  And I feel like all this sort of like the hype around this pogrom sort of dissolved in the wake of all these crazy videos of the Maccabee supporters coming out behaving like football hoogans.
[01:07:23]  Well, hold on, because the narrative that got spread was that they were getting beat up.
[01:07:28]  Yes.
[01:07:28]  Yeah, they were hunting Jews in the streets of Amsterdam.
[01:07:31]  That was what was being spread everywhere, especially here.
[01:07:34]  It was on the news everywhere.
[01:07:35]  Again, like I said, like normally everybody was talking about it all over Instagram.
[01:07:40]  This has to stop.
[01:07:41]  We can't stand for this, et cetera, et cetera.
[01:07:43]  It breaks my heart to see this in the 21st century.
[01:07:46]  Yes.
[01:07:47]  It breaks my heart.
[01:07:48]  It breaks their heart.
[01:07:49]  And it started before that.
[01:07:50]  It started during the game because it wasn't just after the game.
[01:07:53]  They were running around.
[01:07:54]  They were chanting death to the Arabs.
[01:07:56]  Yes, the songs about raping people that they love to sing.
[01:08:00]  And this isn't even, if I'm getting my facts straight, not even the most notoriously racist hooligans in Israel.
[01:08:06]  This is the Tel Aviv team.
[01:08:08]  It's the Beitard.
[01:08:09]  Yeah.
[01:08:09]  Jerusalem Beitard.
[01:08:10]  The Beitard team is like their Nazi team.
[01:08:13]  So these guys are like second tier Nazis by Israeli standards, but yeah, they went to Europe and they caused all manner of problem and they got chased around and beaten up because of it.
[01:08:25]  Kind of like in self-defense.
[01:08:27]  They got like thrown in the canal.
[01:08:29]  There was that one video.
[01:08:30]  Yeah.
[01:08:31]  And we filed like a case against these guys for hooganism, the various crimes that they committed throughout the night.
[01:08:41]  And I think the Dutch authorities were looking into it.
[01:08:47]  And a lot of the footage from the day, like CCTV footage of them doing these things was wiped.
[01:08:55]  Interesting.

=== Institutions Failing? (11:22) ===

[01:08:56]  Yeah, it's very interesting.
[01:08:57]  It's very interesting.
[01:08:57]  And so the case was dropped.
[01:08:59]  Everyone knows how I feel about the Dutch.
[01:09:00]  We don't need to.
[01:09:00]  Yeah.
[01:09:01]  Liz, Liz is.
[01:09:02]  We can't get into that.
[01:09:03]  Talk about hooligan feelings.
[01:09:04]  We cannot get into that.
[01:09:05]  Yeah.
[01:09:06]  I mean, yeah, Liz is like, as long as we're hitting Dutchman, I'm fine.
[01:09:11]  Critical support.
[01:09:12]  I have an idea.
[01:09:13]  I think what you guys are doing is such critical work.
[01:09:15]  And don't listen to what I'm saying because you shouldn't do this because you're a legit organization.
[01:09:19]  But what we should do, Briars, I'm looking at you.
[01:09:24]  We think about the friendliest country to the most amenable, amenable country to taking on a bunch of these cases.
[01:09:35]  We throw the biggest fucking rave you could think of.
[01:09:38]  Promote the shit out of it.
[01:09:39]  I'm talking crazy rave.
[01:09:41]  It's not tomorrow world.
[01:09:42]  It's fucking Future Land.
[01:09:44]  Yeah.
[01:09:45]  Future Landy.
[01:09:46]  I don't know what we're thinking.
[01:09:47]  Yeah.
[01:09:47]  Craziest.
[01:09:49]  Amichi.
[01:09:50]  Is that Avici?
[01:09:52]  Avici?
[01:09:53]  Isn't he also been dead for like a year?
[01:09:55]  Let's bring it back.
[01:09:56]  We'll bring him back.
[01:09:58]  We'll do a hog.
[01:09:58]  It's a hologram.
[01:09:59]  It's a hologram.
[01:10:00]  We'll get them all.
[01:10:02]  All the different Avichis.
[01:10:03]  I'm sure there's like 15.
[01:10:04]  One, two, 1,000 Avicis.
[01:10:08]  We'll have them all.
[01:10:09]  And we'll get all of the, that's the only thing they want.
[01:10:12]  That's true.
[01:10:12]  You guys should do that.
[01:10:13]  You should do a massive rave honeypot.
[01:10:15]  Huge honeypot.
[01:10:16]  Yeah.
[01:10:16]  That's not a bad in Brazil.
[01:10:19]  Anywhere.
[01:10:19]  It would work.
[01:10:21]  It literally would work.
[01:10:22]  It would 100% work.
[01:10:23]  It would not be difficult to do.
[01:10:25]  Yeah.
[01:10:25]  At all.
[01:10:27]  I think about this.
[01:10:28]  So you, I feel like every time I see you, we talk about international humanitarian law.
[01:10:35]  Yeah.
[01:10:35]  And you know a lot more about it than I do.
[01:10:40]  One.
[01:10:42]  One can't help but think that like it's you know, it's invoked a lot in terms of the Gaza war, right?
[01:10:49]  Like, I mean, even a lot of the, like the Rome Statute or, you know, or the Statue on Genocide, all that kind of stuff, or Convention on Genocide.
[01:10:58]  So much of it feels like this, like the post-war order, which has already obviously severely eroded over the past, whatever, 80-odd years.
[01:11:09]  It's having a real test right now.
[01:11:11]  And because the test isn't on like, let's say, you know, some African warlord, right?
[01:11:18]  Or some jihadist in Mali.
[01:11:20]  The test is on like people who are maybe dual citizens of America, but people who are like really integrated in a sense, even though Israel actually hates all international institutions, but like who are technically very integrated to the international order.
[01:11:34]  And one very protected, yeah.
[01:11:37]  One can't help but feel that like international humanitarian law is for the bodies that are supposed to enforce this in some sense are just not up to snuff, right?
[01:11:48]  Like I was, I think I was, I mentioned this to you yesterday, but it feels like a League of Nations moment, right?
[01:11:53]  Where everyone's kind of like, we don't believe in this crap, do we?
[01:11:56]  You know, like we were just kind of saying all that shit.
[01:11:59]  Like, you know, these are our boys.
[01:12:02]  And, you know, it's from, you know, even especially talk of genocide, right?
[01:12:08]  Like, genocide is this legal concept, a relatively recent legal concept.
[01:12:15]  And it just, it seems like there just isn't an institution that can actually enforce these laws.
[01:12:22]  I mean, we're talking about sort of the weakness of the ICC here.
[01:12:25]  Even if the ICC wanted to, and there's a lot to be said about that.
[01:12:30]  But even if the ICC wanted to, like, it's, it's, you know, with Netanyahu visiting, remember, like, he went to, I think he went to Poland, obviously came here, has been here many times.
[01:12:39]  I think it was France maybe he went to also.
[01:12:42]  And I can't remember.
[01:12:43]  I just, I knew Macron said something about it.
[01:12:45]  And everyone's kind of like, well, all right, there might be a warrant out, but like, I'm not going to arrest him, you know?
[01:12:51]  And so that, it's almost just like, it's, it's sort of a put up a shut up moment and everyone just shut up.
[01:12:56]  Yeah.
[01:12:57]  Or did the opposite and like, we love this and are like speaking, speaking in very, you know, praiseworthy terms.
[01:13:04]  But no, I mean, that's absolutely right.
[01:13:06]  And all the international institutions are failing.
[01:13:09]  And they're failing for the main reason they're failing is because they were designed and are dominated by the United States.
[01:13:16]  Yes.
[01:13:18]  Which also does not believe in them.
[01:13:19]  Which also does not believe in them.
[01:13:21]  We're not a signatory to the ICC.
[01:13:23]  No.
[01:13:24]  No, we did.
[01:13:25]  We signed and then unsigned.
[01:13:26]  Okay, yeah.
[01:13:27]  But we're not, we never ratified it.
[01:13:28]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:13:29]  We're currently not a signatory.
[01:13:30]  Famously, we have a law that if an American soldier gets sent to the Hague, we will invade.
[01:13:36]  Yes.
[01:13:37]  And Israel, obviously, as you said, doesn't have any respect for these international institutions.
[01:13:41]  Their former ambassador to the UN literally shred the charter on the UN floor.
[01:13:49]  And they just like talk about They're so pissed off about that Zionism is racism Yeah, they never got it.
[01:13:55]  Literally, that's like it.
[01:13:56]  Obviously, there's other stuff, but they never got.
[01:13:58]  And that and the existence of UNRWA.
[01:14:00]  Yeah.
[01:14:00]  And also, there's talk now of bringing back the Committee Against Apartheid, which is like a legal body within the UN, which would be great.
[01:14:09]  And yeah, they just have absolutely no respect for international law, for international institutions.
[01:14:14]  The United States doesn't, but pays lip service to them.
[01:14:19]  Not so much anymore.
[01:14:20]  Because now we're pretty openly against them.
[01:14:22]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:14:22]  But it was this kind of, we set up this international legal order to help us kind of regulate world affairs and set up this wonderful hegemony that we enjoyed for so long.
[01:14:32]  And the genocide in Gaza was, okay, are you going to rock with the hegemony based on this kind of weak regulatory system you've made, but that really functions where through your power?
[01:14:46]  Or are you going to rock with your guys?
[01:14:47]  And we chose our guys.
[01:14:49]  And we were always going to choose our guys because we never respected international law either.
[01:14:52]  We never followed it.
[01:14:53]  We've been guilty of complicity in various genocides or just doing genocide, depending on how you feel about Vietnam.
[01:15:01]  Certainly guilty of insane war crimes throughout since the signing of Geneva.
[01:15:07]  And yeah, so it's absolutely right that the international system is failing and that this has been a test for international humanitarian law and the concept of international law just as such.
[01:15:17]  And that is part of the reason that we have been trying to use national courts because international law, you know, it has these international adjudicatory bodies like the ICJ and the ICC.
[01:15:30]  But everything that those bodies do needs to be effectuated by states.
[01:15:35]  Yeah.
[01:15:35]  It always has and always will depend upon, maybe not always will, but always has depended upon states for its implementation.
[01:15:43]  And so where bodies like the UN, which can't do all that much without the Security Council, or the ICC, which again is subject to all these pressures, or the ICJ, which issues opinions, but then they're binding and then states need to do them or not.
[01:16:00]  And the Israelis certainly have not been following the binding orders that the ICJ has been issuing vis-à-vis the genocide.
[01:16:07]  You know, you need states to kind of buck up and start enforcing international law themselves.
[01:16:12]  And what this would mean is that they are not only just enforcing international law as it is, but they are trying to create an international rule of law for the first time ever.
[01:16:23]  Yeah.
[01:16:23]  That it actually would apply to something like the United States or to Israel.
[01:16:28]  And the more states that come on board with this, the more they start forming a de facto political bloc against U.S. dominance.
[01:16:40]  And certainly against the powers like Israel and the United States that would love to see international law just be dead letter.
[01:16:49]  And, you know, recently I was in Bogota for the emergency conference of the Hague Group, which is a group of states.
[01:16:57]  It's Colombia, Indonesia, South Africa, Cuba, and a few others that kind of came together a few months ago to pronounce these measures that they would stop the shipment of arms and the transshipment of arms and also comply with the ICJ orders and a few other things.
[01:17:19]  And we were there because, like, one, not all of them really did that, and they have to do it.
[01:17:26]  And also, they were trying to issue a new statement that was much more robust.
[01:17:30]  And we did get one where they, for our purposes, it was very important that they agreed to do universal jurisdiction and also to start doing holding people to account.
[01:17:43]  But like that, that to me is like kind of, and we'll see if they, again, we'll see if they follow through on these things.
[01:17:50]  Colombia has since then started being even more outspoken and taking even more steps.
[01:17:55]  Brazil has signed on to the South Africa ICJ case.
[01:18:01]  You know, things are happening, but it's, you know, it's always too late and it's always too little, but things are moving.
[01:18:07]  And, you know, this is the creation of kind of like a counter-hegemonic political block.
[01:18:13]  And that's exactly what the moment demands because what the world order looks like is the genocide in Gaza.
[01:18:20]  That's been the order since 1948.
[01:18:22]  You know, like what happened right after Geneva was signed, you had, or like before Geneva was signed and then during, French were doing Algeria.
[01:18:31]  Right.
[01:18:31]  You had the U.S. destroying all of Korea.
[01:18:34]  Yeah.
[01:18:35]  You had Vietnam.
[01:18:35]  You had Israel coming into existence in 1947 and doing massive war crimes and genocide since it's been around.
[01:18:42]  The order has never really held these people in check.
[01:18:44]  It's held smaller states in check.
[01:18:47]  And smaller states in the global south have good reason to believe in international law as an institution and good reason to want to see it vindicated because law is the thing that can protect them from blind power, which has been the order of the day since forever.
[01:19:00]  And a lot of, that's also why I think you see a lot of global South states specifically kind of coming online in this way.
[01:19:06]  Like South Africa bringing the ICJ case, Colombia hosting the Hague Group Conference and starting to articulate these really robust positions about the importance of international law and like the inviolability of sovereignty and things like that.
[01:19:20]  Because this is, they see where this is all going.
[01:19:23]  Yeah.
[01:19:24]  And it's going towards a world that looks like Gaza everywhere.
[01:19:28]  And not just in Gaza.
[01:19:30]  And so, you know, I'm not saying that they're only doing this for self-protective reasons.
[01:19:33]  I really believe that these world leaders, some of them are see the atrocities are happening in just care because no one should be subjected to this.
[01:19:43]  But there is, you know, a kind of prudential reason that you would want to get all of these soldiers and get them quickly and get them for the crime of genocide and get them for war crimes because you want those things to exist because those are the things that protect you from abuse by the United States, Basically, or any other world power that might come into existence and replace the United States.

=== Gaza's Grim Reality (03:31) ===

[01:20:18]  Well, Jake, that was illuminating.
[01:20:20]  Thank you very much.
[01:20:22]  What should listeners who are fired up?
[01:20:24]  Because here's the deal with this.
[01:20:26]  I think a lot of people, first of all, a lot of people just look at pictures of dead babies all day and go insane, which I'm going to be honest, I don't think is like necessarily a healthy response.
[01:20:36]  And I think there is a, and I'm not, don't read into this, ladies and gentlemen, but like, I think that there is, is a, almost a desire to like inflict that upon oneself because of a lack of ability to do anything about the situation politically or militarily.
[01:20:52]  And so it serves as a sort of like, I don't know, cathartic way.
[01:20:57]  I mean, that's maybe a weird way to put it.
[01:20:59]  But like, and also like everything on social media is designed to be addictive, that stuff included.
[01:21:03]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:21:04]  Keep it in mind.
[01:21:06]  I think, but to me, it seems like this is almost like doing a version of that that has like a productive end, you know, rather than like a stoom scrolling, but like with it with maybe a veneer of like, I'm radicalizing myself.
[01:21:20]  No, just believe in your politics, get your politics there, and then be like, be clear-headed about where you're going with that.
[01:21:25]  And so I'm very impressed by the Henry Jobs Foundation's mission here, which is like, listen, I fucking hate seeing these guys like grinning, blowing up fucking people's houses or just driving around these underpants.
[01:21:42]  I mean, yeah, like, dude.
[01:21:44]  Do you know how fucking insane that is?
[01:21:46]  I mean, I'm sorry, like, and not to be this kind of guy, but like, when I was in the war, like I was with guys who like didn't know how to read and they didn't do this shit.
[01:21:56]  You know what I mean?
[01:21:56]  Like, it was, it was like, nobody did anything like this that I was with.
[01:22:00]  Like no one, you're not just fucking driving around, like doing drive-bys at houses that just might have people on.
[01:22:06]  Like, are you insane?
[01:22:07]  Like, it just, it's, it's, it's military, it's not even a good idea to do that militarily, which just shows you, like, what we're dealing with here.
[01:22:16]  How out of control these guys are.
[01:22:17]  Yeah, it's just completely out of control.
[01:22:20]  And, and, um, you know, I, I think that there's, especially with this shit with the fucking, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, now we got our guys in there helping them do it too.
[01:22:30]  I mean, I think we've always had our guys in there to an extent, but I think now we got more of our guys in there.
[01:22:35]  I mean, it's just, it's so frustrating to see and that, and the cockiness, knowing that nothing or thinking that nothing will ever happen to them.
[01:22:45]  And so the brazenness that accompanies that is just so insulting as somebody who, you know, just is at least believes in the universal brotherhood of man is this is just completely flies in the face of that.
[01:23:01]  And so I really, I'm glad that somebody is doing it.
[01:23:04]  Even if this just serves to make it, at the very least, to make it miserable for some fucking, you know, lieutenant colonel who just turned 17, who's going to his first beach rave or whatever, to give him second thoughts about traveling.
[01:23:22]  But I really do, I'm watching this with great interest.
[01:23:27]  I hope that these motherfuckers go to jail.
[01:23:29]  Yeah.
[01:23:29]  And the low-level soldiers too, because that's what pisses me off.
[01:23:33]  People always, that's a classic thing, right?
[01:23:35]  It's just like, and, you know, you know what you're just following or just following orders.
[01:23:40]  You know, that's going to be the defense there.
[01:23:43]  You know, I do think that like so many people evade accountability with that kind of shit, you know?

=== Give Us a Spill! (02:21) ===

[01:23:50]  But for people listening who are interested in the work you guys do, give us a spiel.
[01:23:54]  What can people do?
[01:23:55]  Where can they find out more information?
[01:23:58]  All of those things.
[01:23:59]  What kind of people are you?
[01:24:00]  You said you guys work with a lot of volunteers.
[01:24:03]  Yeah.
[01:24:03]  Let us know.
[01:24:04]  So everyone is a volunteer.
[01:24:08]  We, yeah, every single person is a volunteer who works with us except the lawyers that we pay to do the cases.
[01:24:14]  Yeah.
[01:24:15]  Which is where basically all of the money goes to that, to building out kind of like tech infrastructure that we use to do the research.
[01:24:24]  But everyone is a volunteer aside from the lawyers we contract with.
[01:24:28]  So the things that people can do to help, I would say there's three main things.
[01:24:36]  One, if you are a lawyer and you're interested in helping, please go to the website and volunteer.
[01:24:41]  Fill out the volunteer form.
[01:24:43]  Tell us who you are.
[01:24:44]  Tell us what kind of experience you have.
[01:24:46]  Tell us what you'd be interested in doing.
[01:24:48]  And this is especially important if you are, You know, you have some kind of background in war crimes or some kind of background in like immunities, like national security law.
[01:25:01]  And particularly also if you're not in the United States, yeah, if you're from anywhere else around the world, you will likely be more needed.
[01:25:09]  Um, so that's one thing.
[01:25:11]  If you are a lawyer, please, please volunteer.
[01:25:14]  Um, the other thing we always could use more of is money.
[01:25:18]  Uh, so you can find a donation link on our website, and we'll put that in the description.
[01:25:24]  And then the third thing is that you know a lot of this work depends on the political will to prosecute.
[01:25:34]  And you know, the law is extremely clear everywhere.
[01:25:36]  It's extremely clear.
[01:25:37]  These guys did the crimes, they need to be prosecuted.
[01:25:39]  All these countries have international obligations and domestic obligations to do so.
[01:25:45]  The thing that's always lacking is political will.
[01:25:47]  And so, you know, to everyone who is out in the streets protesting, that immensely helps our work.
[01:25:54]  Because the more, you know, your elected officials and judges and prosecutors feel the pressure that this is something that they must do or they will be replaced or there will be other types of consequences that smooths the way for this kind of prosecution.

=== Everyone's Protest Helps (00:40) ===

[01:26:11]  So, you know, everyone who's been protesting, really putting themselves on the line, we love you and we thank you because that really helps our work as well.
[01:26:20]  Well, thank you very much, Jake.
[01:26:22]  Thank you guys for having me.
[01:26:34]  Well, we have a ton of links in the description where you can find out more information about everything that Jake's talking about.
[01:26:42]  And I encourage you to click them.
[01:26:45]  I am Brace.
[01:26:46]  I'm Liz.
[01:26:47]  I'm producer Young Chomsky.
[01:26:48]  And this has been Trunon.
[01:26:50]  We'll see you next time.
[01:26:51]  Bye bye.