True Anon Truth Feed - Episode 455: MAHAmaniacs
Aired: 2025-05-01
Duration: 02:06:14


=== Twins Plot Line? (01:43) ===

[00:00:18]  Isn't it like that?
[00:00:19]  Yeah, it's like that.
[00:00:20]  I love that.
[00:00:43]  Ladies and gentlemen, not one but two theme songs today.
[00:00:47]  Why not?
[00:00:48]  Double your pleasure.
[00:00:49]  Double your fun.
[00:00:50]  Like that.
[00:00:52]  A little nostalgic.
[00:00:53]  I just feel like that wasn't it.
[00:00:54]  That gum ad felt a bit seedy to me.
[00:00:57]  But you love twins.
[00:00:59]  You know what?
[00:01:01]  Twins.
[00:01:02]  You know, it's funny that I mentioned twins because that's something you don't see on TV that much anymore.
[00:01:08]  People are sick of twins.
[00:01:09]  Although, now that I'm saying that, isn't there like a plot line in Sinners on Spot Twins?
[00:01:13]  I don't know.
[00:01:14]  A plot line?
[00:01:14]  I think it's about the main character.
[00:01:16]  I don't know anything about it.
[00:01:18]  And the Thompson twins were just in the playoffs, so maybe still going.
[00:01:23]  Anyway.
[00:01:23]  Isn't the Thompson Twins a band?
[00:01:26]  Also, those guys.
[00:01:28]  Hello, everyone.
[00:01:29]  Hello.
[00:01:30]  We're not here to talk twins.
[00:01:31]  We're not talking twins.
[00:01:32]  I am Brace.
[00:01:33]  I'm Liz.
[00:01:34]  I'm Young Chomsky.
[00:01:35]  This is Twin Talk.
[00:01:36]  No, it's Druidon.
[00:01:38]  Hello.
[00:01:39]  Hello.
[00:01:40]  I think we should just get straight into it.
[00:01:41]  I just wanted to say that the reason that we were singing that song is that we were just revisiting on the old memory lane and we're looking for a clip that we'll talk about later on in the show from the Gilly Maxwell trial.
[00:01:58]  And man, that was fun.

=== Virginia Jeffrey's Tragic End (10:46) ===

[00:02:01]  I just want to say.
[00:02:02]  Was that?
[00:02:03]  Yeah.
[00:02:04]  Those are the worst months of my life.
[00:02:05]  What are you fucking talking about?
[00:02:07]  Yeah.
[00:02:07]  You had so much fun.
[00:02:09]  You love to say that kind of shit now.
[00:02:10]  You had so much fun.
[00:02:12]  We hung out all the time.
[00:02:15]  Every day.
[00:02:16]  All day.
[00:02:17]  We got a lot of reading done and we, you know, we had a lot of insights.
[00:02:22]  And we got to.
[00:02:23]  Yes.
[00:02:23]  We made Kathy Lorenzo famous.
[00:02:25]  R.I.P. You talked to a lot of Marshalls.
[00:02:29]  I talked to a lot of different people.
[00:02:31]  We had a great, like, up early, going to bed, early schedule.
[00:02:36]  I did not sleep well.
[00:02:37]  But yeah, no, it was good.
[00:02:38]  It was good.
[00:02:39]  Remember my ceiling fell in?
[00:02:41]  Yeah, well, that was really an Airbnb issue.
[00:02:44]  It was.
[00:02:45]  It was the last Airbnb I think I've stayed in.
[00:02:47]  Well, they're illegal now, right?
[00:02:48]  I think so, yeah.
[00:02:50]  And also I have a home.
[00:02:51]  Oh, yeah.
[00:02:51]  But yeah.
[00:02:52]  Things have changed around here.
[00:02:54]  Things have changed around here.
[00:02:54]  I didn't realize it was in 2021.
[00:02:56]  Wow.
[00:02:56]  That was a long time ago.
[00:02:58]  And yet it was just yesterday.
[00:02:59]  No, it was four years ago.
[00:03:01]  And yet it was...
[00:03:02]  It was like it was yesterday.
[00:03:03]  But we...
[00:03:04]  But you haven't aged a day.
[00:03:06]  That's right.
[00:03:06]  We've aged significantly.
[00:03:08]  Oh, it's horrifying.
[00:03:10]  You, in fact, look significantly younger.
[00:03:12]  Yeah.
[00:03:12]  If anything.
[00:03:13]  Well, it's the Benjamin Button.
[00:03:16]  You have to get done in Korea.
[00:03:19]  We are back talking about Epstein today.
[00:03:22]  We are.
[00:03:23]  We are.
[00:03:24]  Because as most, I would say probably all of our listeners know, one of the central figures in the Epstein case, Virginia Jeffrey, was found dead in her home in Australia just a few days ago as a time of recording.
[00:03:45]  Her family and everyone's saying it's a suicide.
[00:03:48]  I don't think there's any, as of now, I'm sure that there will be by the time this episode comes out in two days.
[00:03:54]  Maybe there won't be, but there probably will be.
[00:03:56]  There isn't really like much reporting or any police files released on exactly what happened.
[00:04:04]  But as far as we can gather, she was found dead at her home.
[00:04:10]  You know, there was a kind of, I don't know how you would describe it, a strange Instagram post that she made a couple of weeks ago that had a picture of her in a hospital bed where she was sort of covered in bruises that had a caption basically saying that she was in a terrible accident and that she had renal failure.
[00:04:32]  I think it was renal failure.
[00:04:34]  It's kidney failure.
[00:04:34]  And that she had four days to live.
[00:04:36]  The doctor said she had four days to live.
[00:04:38]  I think a lot of people, I mean, for me, I was like, this doesn't make a lot of sense.
[00:04:42]  Like, I think you can cure that.
[00:04:45]  Like, you can fix that with dialysis.
[00:04:47]  Yeah.
[00:04:48]  I mean, I just, kidney stuff is kind of the only stuff I know about a little bit.
[00:04:52]  Yeah.
[00:04:52]  I was like, I think you can fix that with dialysis.
[00:04:54]  But there was just like something sort of off about the post.
[00:04:57]  I mean, I'll just come out and straight up say, like, I didn't, it didn't seem to me like she was going to die in four days from a car accident.
[00:05:04]  I think, I, I think I sort of took it as like, I think maybe she's not doing too well.
[00:05:09]  Well, I think that was reported that she was like not well.
[00:05:11]  She was estranged from her family, from her kids, and clearly going through a lot of distress, I'd say.
[00:05:20]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:05:21]  And then, yeah, of course.
[00:05:22]  And then like in the intervening weeks since then and now, like there's been some reporting, like, you know, family issues and like the accident.
[00:05:32]  There was an accident, but like there wasn't really any injuries.
[00:05:34]  And then her like representatives came out and said, oh, she didn't mean to post that Instagram.
[00:05:40]  It was just like a lot of, it was one of those things where I'm like, seems like this woman's having like some really bad personal issues.
[00:05:46]  But I felt sort of seedy looking at it.
[00:05:49]  Yeah, totally.
[00:05:51]  And then just a few days ago, yeah, there was reports that she had committed suicide at her home.
[00:06:00]  And I think a lot of people were sort of posting this tweet that she had made in 2019 that said, I am making it publicly known that in no way, shape, or form am I suicidal.
[00:06:08]  I have made this known to my therapist and GP.
[00:06:11]  If something happens to me, in the sake of my family, do not let this go away and help me protect them.
[00:06:17]  Too many evil people want to see me quieted.
[00:06:21]  Well, I think it's important, one, that people are posting it with the date scrubbed out.
[00:06:26]  Yes.
[00:06:26]  It's cropped and like stretched for some reason.
[00:06:30]  I don't know why people stretch things in images.
[00:06:32]  It's just like, sorry, I just want a nitpick.
[00:06:34]  Yeah.
[00:06:35]  But it's stretched.
[00:06:36]  There's no date.
[00:06:38]  And it's important to remember that Jeffrey Epstein, quote unquote, killed himself in 2019.
[00:06:43]  This is posted within that context.
[00:06:46]  Yes.
[00:06:47]  And not in 2025.
[00:06:53]  And certainly not, you know, in any kind of like, you know, after what she had posted with the car, with the bus accident or whatever happened and or before she committed suicide.
[00:07:05]  Like, and people are passing it around and being like, CCC, look, look, this shows us something is afoot here.
[00:07:14]  Yeah.
[00:07:14]  Which is like, you know, they're doing it cynically.
[00:07:19]  It's inappropriate and it's fucking like, it's fucked up.
[00:07:23]  Yeah.
[00:07:23]  Yeah.
[00:07:23]  I guess, I guess that's all to say.
[00:07:26]  Like I have, listen, I have no idea.
[00:07:28]  Nobody knows what happened except that there was a report from the family that she committed suicide, right?
[00:07:32]  But like, I think a lot of people are being immediately going to like, she was murdered, when it's like not knowing maybe any context whatsoever about sort of the story of Virginia Jeffrey or like why this might be within the realm of possibility of her committing suicide.
[00:07:46]  I'm just saying we're in a very different situation than like Jeffrey Epstein dying in jail here.
[00:07:51]  Well, also just like a lot of operators are once again finding someone in this case like extremely useful to whatever fucking ends that they have for whatever marketing they want to do for themselves or whatever clicks and likes they want to get.
[00:08:05]  Exactly.
[00:08:06]  And it's disturbing.
[00:08:07]  Yeah.
[00:08:08]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:08:09]  I mean, I think, I think it is worth going over here a little bit about Virginia's story.
[00:08:15]  And we've talked about her a number of times on this episode.
[00:08:18]  You know, I talked to her a little bit in 2019 or 2020, I can't remember.
[00:08:24]  But, you know, she is a pretty central figure to this case basically from the beginning.
[00:08:30]  And by that, I mean like from sort of the, I guess, heyday of what Jeffrey Epstein was doing or like when he was really, I guess, had his operation up and running.
[00:08:39]  But also in the sense that she was a pretty central figure in Julia K. Brown's investigation into the plea deal that Jeffrey Epstein got and became, I think, the most prominent, I guess, Epstein victim.
[00:08:53]  Or accuser.
[00:08:54]  Accuser, whatever.
[00:08:55]  Victim.
[00:08:56]  That was just, you know, she was in numerous documentaries, numerous interviews.
[00:09:01]  And also sort of the central player in some of the sort of side.
[00:09:06]  I don't know, side, it makes sense, but like, you know, like the Prince Andrew stuff.
[00:09:11]  Yeah, she sued Prince Andrew.
[00:09:12]  We'll talk about that.
[00:09:13]  We'll talk about that.
[00:09:13]  So anyways, just from the beginning, bear with me if you know all this stuff, but it's been a while since we've talked about any of this.
[00:09:18]  We've probably churned through all of our listeners now.
[00:09:21]  So probably, you know, maybe you've been listening since the beginning.
[00:09:23]  Maybe you haven't.
[00:09:24]  Maybe you don't even know this was an Epstein podcast.
[00:09:27]  Yes.
[00:09:28]  So Virginia was recruited by Ghelane when she was working at Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump's golf club, where he also lives most of the year.
[00:09:36]  The Southern White House, I think it's called.
[00:09:39]  It used to be the government in exile.
[00:09:41]  Now it's just the government.
[00:09:42]  I know it's just the government.
[00:09:43]  So she was born in Sacramento, California.
[00:09:45]  She had a pretty rough life, abused by a family friend when she was really young.
[00:09:50]  She was a teenage runaway in the Haid, et cetera.
[00:09:53]  Her family moves to Florida.
[00:09:54]  She kind of goes with them.
[00:09:56]  But she also, I think, runs away there and kind of falls into the orbit of a sex trafficker named Ron Eppinger.
[00:10:04]  We covered that, I think, many years ago.
[00:10:08]  But, you know, to cut a long story short, she kind of gets rescued from that situation.
[00:10:12]  I think there's a big police bust.
[00:10:15]  Her dad is working maintenance at Mar-a-Lago, and Virginia gets hired as a teenage spa attendant there.
[00:10:23]  So the dates on this are a little rough, basically, because I think everyone's kind of unsure exactly when it began.
[00:10:32]  But sometime around 1999 or 2000, when Virginia was either 16 or 17, she's approached by Ghelane Maxwell at the spa and offered a job massaging Jeffrey Epstein for 200 bucks a pop.
[00:10:43]  So let's stop.
[00:10:44]  We know that this is from the get, like this was Ghelane and Jeffrey's kind of MO, right?
[00:10:50]  They would send Ghelane out to talk to a young girl and be like, hey, listen, like there's this fantastically.
[00:10:56]  You want to make some extra money, kid?
[00:10:58]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:10:58]  You want to make 200 bucks, you know?
[00:11:02]  I think she sees that as a pretty good deal.
[00:11:03]  Actually, I know she sees it as a pretty good deal.
[00:11:05]  And she spends the next two years with Epstein and is sort of pimped out, for lack of a better word, to a wide variety of very powerful men.
[00:11:15]  You know, I'm just going to go through a few of them right here.
[00:11:18]  I mean, we've talked about all this on the show before.
[00:11:20]  But again, like, I think it's just within the context worth talking about.
[00:11:26]  You know, one of them is Bill Richardson, the former governor of New Mexico, where Epstein had his Zorro ranch.
[00:11:32]  And he was also Bill Clinton's representative to the UN.
[00:11:35]  And then when we were sort of writing this episode, I remember like, wow, wait.
[00:11:38]  Remember, there's like pictures of Virginia literally massaging Bill Clinton's shoulders as he's sort of throwing his head back.
[00:11:47]  Virginia, I believe, went on the African vacation that Jeffrey Epstein took with Kevin Spacey and Bill Clinton and Chris Tucker.
[00:11:57]  Tucker.
[00:11:58]  She was also, she says, traffic to MIT professor Marvin Minsky on Epstein's Island.
[00:12:04]  That would track.
[00:12:04]  I mean, we know Minsky went there, but like, also, remember, Epstein was like, I feel like this is almost lost to time now, but like, Epstein was so in with all of these like MIT fucking professor types, Noam Chomsky, who I can't remember so many of the other ones.
[00:12:23]  Fucking, what's his name?
[00:12:25]  Stephen Hawking.
[00:12:26]  Stephen Hawking.
[00:12:28]  Oh, God.
[00:12:28]  Yeah.
[00:12:29]  I mean, they outfitted a fucking submarine special for Stephen Hawking to go on because he'd never been on a submarine before.
[00:12:35]  Joy Ito, literally of MIT.
[00:12:38]  Yeah.
[00:12:38]  You know, he was working with Bill Ackman's wife, Neri Oxman, who I find stunning.

=== Trafficking Of Young Girls (02:06) ===

[00:12:48]  I mean, there's just no other word to describe her.
[00:12:50]  Stunning.
[00:12:51]  And she cheats.
[00:12:53]  You know, he was all up in that scene.
[00:12:55]  She was also trafficked to Jean-Luc Brunel, Epstein's modelizer pal, who himself died of a suicide in prison in 2022.
[00:13:08]  This is actually, I didn't realize this for some reason.
[00:13:11]  Maybe we had talked about it.
[00:13:12]  Maybe I just flipped my memory.
[00:13:15]  But Virginia Geoffrey had actually testified in a closed French court, but in French court against Jean-Luc Brunel during that trial.
[00:13:23]  But elsewhere, she described extensively Brunel, Ghelane, and Epstein's exploitation of very young girls.
[00:13:29]  And I think it's actually from Virginia's testimony that we get some of the really more appalling details of a very appalling, already appalling story, which is Jean-Luc Brunel basically trafficking third world, very young girls to Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:13:47]  We were talking 13-year-olds.
[00:13:49]  We're talking, in some cases, reported 10-year-olds.
[00:13:52]  I mean, this is like, this is an aspect of the Epstein sort of world that has more opacity than the rest of it, which is already incredibly opaque.
[00:14:05]  You know, the sort of model, there's testimony and stuff from like adult models that dealt with Epstein.
[00:14:11]  A few.
[00:14:12]  A few.
[00:14:14]  But these very young girls, like nobody knows what happened.
[00:14:18]  Yeah.
[00:14:19]  I mean, I'm also like, I'm not surprised that a lot of women now, girls then, getting involved in this industry.
[00:14:27]  Like, we've done episodes on the Monolian Street.
[00:14:29]  Like rife with abuse at all levels, like abuse and exploitation, whether that's in kind of the standard ways of how agents like, you know, kind of hold money over girls while they like kind of pin them out to do jobs or in like very explicit like sexual ways, right?

=== Abuse and Exploitation Rife (07:06) ===

[00:14:54]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:14:55]  And I think a lot of, you know, I think you get you're in situations and you try to make calculations and later on you see things very differently than maybe how you did when you were young.
[00:15:09]  Yeah.
[00:15:10]  That makes coming forward very difficult.
[00:15:12]  I think also just like in a lot of worlds, like this stuff is like you sort of see this as normal.
[00:15:16]  You know what I mean?
[00:15:16]  And not normal maybe, but like it's so commonplace that like you feel maybe weird making a big deal out of it.
[00:15:23]  I mean, I think that's how a lot of like these abusive industries kind of get away with it for some reason.
[00:15:27]  Yeah, of course.
[00:15:27]  I mean, it still happens.
[00:15:28]  Like it's not like any of this has changed whatsoever.
[00:15:30]  No, not at all.
[00:15:32]  A little more on this later, but she was introduced to Prince Andrew in 2001 when I think she was still 17.
[00:15:39]  They were photographed together, which is a very important part of this.
[00:15:45]  They were photographed together.
[00:15:46]  They had sex.
[00:15:48]  They, you know, he is, she very explicitly describes it's like she was pimped out by Ghillain and Jeffrey to Prince Andrew.
[00:15:57]  That led, of course, to his very famous BBC, I believe, interview where he says he is incapable of sweating.
[00:16:04]  And so the whole thing is a moot.
[00:16:08]  There's a slight problem with the sweating because I have a peculiar medical condition, which is that I don't sweat or I didn't sweat at the time.
[00:16:22]  And that was, oh, is she?
[00:16:24]  Yes.
[00:16:24]  I didn't sweat at the time because I had suffered what I would describe as an overdose of adrenaline in the Falklands War when I was shot at.
[00:16:35]  And I simply, it was almost impossible for me to sweat.
[00:16:40]  Question, because I can't remember.
[00:16:42]  Is this where the puppet comes in?
[00:16:45]  No, the puppet, I believe, was Johanna Jobert.
[00:16:47]  Okay.
[00:16:47]  I believe it was Johanna Jober.
[00:16:49]  I might be wrong on that.
[00:16:50]  But the puppet was, of course, longtime listeners will know that there was a puppet introduced, a puppet of Prince Andrew introduced in a sexual situation by Prince Andrew and Ghillain.
[00:17:05]  What was the term?
[00:17:06]  Can you imagine that you're like hanging out, you're like sitting on a couch with a young lass at a house party and you're like, hold up.
[00:17:18]  I have a puppet of myself and I want to use the puppet hand to touch your booby.
[00:17:22]  I mean, sometimes, and this happens, we cover a wide, wide, wide variety of subjects on this show, right?
[00:17:28]  But I think the through line through almost everything that we cover is I'm like, I feel like I'm a pretty like middle of the road guy in all things.
[00:17:36]  Like, you know, I take, I take things as they come.
[00:17:38]  I'm, I'm neutral on a lot of things.
[00:17:40]  You know, I have an open mind, right?
[00:17:42]  And I realized that like, actually, I, I'm highly judgmental.
[00:17:46]  And I think that like maybe almost a huge overwhelming majority of the people that we cover on the show, which mostly are like rich freaks or whatever, I am just like, you are a fucking space alien to me.
[00:17:59]  Like your, your, your ways and your mores and everything about you is so crazy to me that I can barely comprehend even a little bit of your existence.
[00:18:10]  It's just crazy.
[00:18:11]  I mean, another person that it should be very much mentioned here is Glenn Dubin.
[00:18:17]  Glenn Dubin, who was in, Virginia was instructed by Ghelane to give an erotic massage to.
[00:18:24]  I believe that she also claims that Glenn Dubin was the first person that she was sort of pimped out to.
[00:18:29]  Now, Glenn and his wife, Eva Dubin, are mentioned numerous times by numerous girls.
[00:18:36]  Very strange, weird situation that Epstein had with their kids as well.
[00:18:42]  I got to tell you, Glenn Dubin has kept a relatively low profile since a lot of this stuff blew up on him, but he's coming back.
[00:18:49]  He just made a very sizable donation to New York City mayoral candidate Andrew Cuomo.
[00:18:55]  Oh, look at that.
[00:18:57]  You know who else did?
[00:18:58]  Bill Ackman.
[00:19:00]  Can we stop for a second?
[00:19:03]  It's crazy.
[00:19:05]  Okay, so I was revisiting some of the Cuomo stuff.
[00:19:09]  Like nobody is talking about just the like gross, how gross he was with all of his staffers.
[00:19:16]  They're like, oh, there was a Mewtwo thing, but we're like, we've moved on.
[00:19:19]  We've all decided that we don't care about Mewtwo anymore.
[00:19:21]  It was defeated at the ballot box.
[00:19:22]  So that means that everything's fine.
[00:19:24]  But it's like, wait, no, but he, like, his office was like, he would like grab, he's like grabbing girls' butts and shit.
[00:19:30]  Yeah.
[00:19:31]  And then he like let he like let a bunch of old people die during COVID.
[00:19:36]  Remember all that shit?
[00:19:37]  I think let might be too kind of a way to put it.
[00:19:39]  I mean he killed a bunch of old people.
[00:19:41]  That is the thing that just nobody's talking about this.
[00:19:44]  They're afraid of Zoran.
[00:19:45]  I think, I think, I really think it, I think a lot of it has to do with Israel, honestly.
[00:19:51]  But it's crazy to me that Cuomo is trying to make this fucking comeback because he and his, he is such a scumbag.
[00:19:59]  He is such a scumbag.
[00:20:01]  It's very fitting that Ackman and fucking and Glenn Dubin.
[00:20:04]  I mean, Glenn Dubin is, what is he known for in the public eye?
[00:20:07]  Do you think he's known for his financial prowess or do you think he's known for being accused by several young girls of rape?
[00:20:14]  Yeah.
[00:20:14]  You know?
[00:20:15]  And it's just, you think Cuomo is going to return that one?
[00:20:18]  Cuomo is Glenn Dubin.
[00:20:19]  You know, it's ridiculous to me.
[00:20:23]  But speaking of politics or speaking of sort of politics, adjacent people who are in the money world, Tom Pritzker, the head of the Hyatt Hotels chain and cousin of Illinois governor J.B. Pritzker, Virginia was pimped out to him, she says, in France when they were in town for Naomi Campbell's birthday party.
[00:20:43]  And there is a picture of Virginia at Naomi Campbell's birthday party.
[00:20:46]  I mean, maybe, listen, maybe the modeling world is different, but like, listen, I'm a wealthy woman who's not a teenager.
[00:20:53]  And I'm like having this big party.
[00:20:55]  And I'm like, why did you guys bring a 17-year-old girl to my birthday party?
[00:21:00]  If I had a birthday party, and one of you guys brought a 17-year-old, I'd be like, that would be fucking weird.
[00:21:06]  Who's this?
[00:21:07]  Why is this person here?
[00:21:10]  Ehu Barak, the former prime minister of Israel, she also accused.
[00:21:17]  Also, Alan Dershowitz, which we'll talk about a little bit later.
[00:21:26]  That led to some legal problems for Virginia, which I think has added sort of another strange layer to this whole thing.
[00:21:35]  But Virginia was also used to recruit other girls.
[00:21:39]  And I think that has led to, and we're going to talk a little bit about some of the free Ghelane people, but that has been like a big talking point for a lot of the free Ghelane people.
[00:21:51]  But the reality is, and there's sort of been no ambiguity about this since the beginning, is that like Epstein and Ghelane would recruit these girls and would use girls to recruit other girls.

=== Adopted and Exploited (02:36) ===

[00:22:01]  That was like normal standard operating procedure for them.
[00:22:04]  I mean, and I think a lot of people who are in Ghillain's camp, and there's very few people who will be openly in Epstein's camp, but it's the same camp.
[00:22:14]  Yeah.
[00:22:14]  Epstein's dead.
[00:22:17]  There's only one extant camp.
[00:22:20]  Will sort of claim like, oh, well, she's a liar and she was also in on this.
[00:22:24]  And it's almost maybe more that she was doing this than like Ghillain was doing this.
[00:22:27]  But at the same token, Ghillene's a victim.
[00:22:30]  Ghillaine's a victim of her lies and manipulation, right?
[00:22:32]  But also a victim of Epstein's.
[00:22:34]  Yeah.
[00:22:34]  Oh, yeah.
[00:22:35]  Same thing.
[00:22:35]  Yeah.
[00:22:36]  So it's like, wait, which one is it?
[00:22:39]  Here's, I think, like a very bizarre anecdote that Virginia tells the Miami Herald in a video.
[00:22:47]  And we're going to play a little bit of that now.
[00:22:50]  So we were at the island by ourselves, Jeffrey and me and Gillen.
[00:22:55]  And we had gone for a nice snorkeling event.
[00:23:00]  I mean, in some ways, we were a little fucked up family.
[00:23:04]  I mean, we would sit together and watch Sex in the City together.
[00:23:06]  And we would go hiking.
[00:23:08]  We would make things together.
[00:23:10]  I mean, we collected all this pirate treasure, like just broken glass bottles, and we make a table from it.
[00:23:15]  Like we did weird family stuff.
[00:23:18]  All right.
[00:23:18]  So it just wasn't all about that.
[00:23:20]  But that was how this worked, the inner goings of it.
[00:23:25]  You know, it was, all right, you need to have sex at least, you know, Jeffrey needs to have sex at least seven times a day and have this happen at least, you know, this many times a day.
[00:23:34]  But in the meantime, you know, we're going to sit back and have some popcorn while you're giving you a blood job on watching Sex in the City.
[00:23:39]  Like it was just really screwed up, kind of a little family unit for a while.
[00:23:45]  So anyways, one day we went snorkeling on Jeffrey's Island and it was beautiful.
[00:23:52]  It was a great day.
[00:23:52]  I was exhausted.
[00:23:53]  It was, you know, hard swim in the water.
[00:23:56]  And we get up and we're taking off our flippers on the jetty.
[00:24:02]  And Gilen, you know, starts talking to me about how would I feel about having a child.
[00:24:10]  What?
[00:24:13]  Having a baby?
[00:24:14]  Yeah, it would be your baby, but it would really be our baby.
[00:24:18]  And we would have you sign a document that says that you would have an allowance.
[00:24:23]  We would pay you $200,000 a month and you would have a nice house.
[00:24:27]  But this child is really ours and we can do what we want to do with our child.
[00:24:32]  You could basically never take this child from us.
[00:24:35]  Yeah.
[00:24:36]  I mean, that's what we're working with here.

=== Complex Litigation Followed (04:51) ===

[00:24:37]  I mean, she was really, I don't know, she had sort of pride of place in the Epstein-Ghillain world for a couple of years.
[00:24:47]  I mean, again, like this, this took place over like a period of like two or three years, right?
[00:24:52]  Like she wasn't in here for like 10 years.
[00:24:54]  Like some of the girls were stuck with Epstein for a little bit longer, but she was really close with them, right?
[00:25:00]  Like they sort of, I guess in their own way, kind of adopted her.
[00:25:04]  She mentions like this fucked up family that they had.
[00:25:06]  It's a horrible, fucked up, weird dynamic there.
[00:25:11]  Eventually they send her to Thailand when she's 19 for massage school.
[00:25:16]  It's there.
[00:25:16]  And there also is, you know, she also mentions that they wanted her to maybe buy a Thai girl for them.
[00:25:26]  She refuses to do that.
[00:25:28]  She meets her husband there and she calls Epstein, tells him, like, listen, it's over.
[00:25:34]  I'm not talking to you again.
[00:25:35]  And she moves to Australia with her husband.
[00:25:39]  So I think something important to note is that most of, if not all of, like what people understand to be the Epstein files, Epstein docs, like everything that, you know, we started looking at when we started the podcast, all the way through to what Pam Bondi released in that fucking binder or whatever, however many weeks ago.
[00:26:04]  All of that basically came out of the Virginia Jeffrey litigation.
[00:26:09]  In fact, like basically all, nearly all of the cases against Jeffrey and Ghelane rely on or came out of Virginia's original lawsuit.
[00:26:17]  And this is really important.
[00:26:18]  So she filed a civil suit in 2015 where she accused Ghillane of defamation after Ghillane had called Virginia a liar over allegations of abuse by Ghillane and Jeffrey.
[00:26:33]  And it's at this point, like, you know, remember, like, you know, Ghillane hasn't been indicted.
[00:26:39]  This is 2015.
[00:26:40]  Jeffrey's flying free.
[00:26:41]  He's not dead.
[00:26:42]  He's running around organizing conferences.
[00:26:45]  Hanging out with Jess Daly.
[00:26:46]  Totally.
[00:26:48]  You know, he's flying fancy-free from New York, Florida, Paris, New Mexico, Virgin Islands.
[00:26:54]  He's doing his thing.
[00:26:56]  But, you know, there's like two big depositions that are part of this from Ghillane and reams and reams of evidence that were submitted by Virginia.
[00:27:04]  And this makes up the bulk of the Epstein docs.
[00:27:07]  And that's like, this is how foundational this case was.
[00:27:10]  And we're talking about like the flight logs, the emails.
[00:27:13]  There's parts of her unpublished memoir.
[00:27:16]  There's interview transcripts.
[00:27:17]  There's physical evidence.
[00:27:18]  Like, you know, the list goes on.
[00:27:20]  And that suit was ultimately settled in 2017.
[00:27:25]  But a lot of complex and unusual litigation followed.
[00:27:32]  You know, I think in total, nine different parties eventually inserted themselves into the case over the years.
[00:27:37]  So like if you go and you're looking at the Virginia Jeffrey versus Gillay Maxwell case, you'll see it's like in the, what's it called?
[00:27:48]  Court and listener docs and all that.
[00:27:49]  Yeah.
[00:27:50]  It's like pages and pages and pages and pages and pages of files because people just keep kind of attaching themselves into this suit, like including, you know, the U.S. Virgin Islands, for example.
[00:28:04]  Like they kind of became party to the suit because they wanted to use some of it in their case against, you know what I mean?
[00:28:09]  So one of those parties, you already mentioned her, was Julie K. Brown.
[00:28:13]  She worked really hard to get the docs unsealed and she drew on a lot of the a lot of the case files for her landmark perversion of justice piece that's published in the Miami Herald back in 2018.
[00:28:29]  And this is what sets the stage for Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:28:31]  Like I'm trying to really tease this out because it's only because of Virginia that this happens, right?
[00:28:36]  Yeah.
[00:28:37]  There were, you know, accusations already of abuse by Epstein, but the scope of the cover-up, you know, the famous, famous people, law enforcement, DOJ, all of that kind of comes from Julie's like piecing together of all of this.
[00:28:51]  And, you know, this is where we get Bill Clinton's name finally comes out, Donald Trump, Bill Gates, Les Wexner.
[00:28:57]  This is when, you know, Alex Acosta is forced to resign from Trump's cabinet.
[00:29:01]  We're kind of like speedrunning the whole Epstein story here.
[00:29:03]  I didn't even mean to do that.
[00:29:05]  But people, I mean, again, if you've been listening to the show, you know all of this, but we have to say it, you know?
[00:29:10]  Yeah, but I'm not so much recapping as trying to like put Virginia in pride of place because like this is, she's central to this.
[00:29:17]  She's so central to all of this kind of unfolding.
[00:29:21]  And, you know, it's after this, right?
[00:29:23]  So then because of all of this, DOJ opens the investigation into Epstein.

=== George Santos and the Gulf Scandal (08:00) ===

[00:29:29]  And then he dies.
[00:29:31]  And then Gillan is indicted and so on and so forth.
[00:29:34]  But, you know, Virginia also filed, we mentioned it.
[00:29:36]  Now we'll explain it.
[00:29:37]  She filed a suit against Andrew back in 2021.
[00:29:41]  And this is what led to the notorious Newsnight interview that also spawned two movies.
[00:29:47]  Two?
[00:29:47]  Two?
[00:29:48]  There were two.
[00:29:50]  Why is there two?
[00:29:51]  Why is there two movies and everything?
[00:29:53]  This is like White House down all over again.
[00:29:56]  Two Newsnight movies, Andrew.
[00:30:00]  My God.
[00:30:01]  Yeah, there's one called Scoop.
[00:30:02]  You're right.
[00:30:03]  And then there's another one.
[00:30:05]  Amazon and Netflix have produced drama films about Prince Andrew's BBC Newsnight interview and his fall from grace titled A Very Royal Scandal.
[00:30:12]  How can you, this is so fucked up.
[00:30:14]  This is the state of the world today where a single interview on something called Newsnight that isn't even broadcast in the United States can spawn two, like we need to shut down the IP lawyers.
[00:30:32]  I'm sick of this shit.
[00:30:33]  This is ridiculous.
[00:30:34]  You should not be able to option just like everything.
[00:30:37]  This is to quote from abc.net.au, think Pixar is a bug life and DreamWorks Ants both dropping in 1998.
[00:30:45]  It's ridiculous.
[00:30:46]  I didn't watch either of these.
[00:30:48]  The Bugs movies?
[00:30:49]  No.
[00:30:49]  Well, I haven't seen either of those either.
[00:30:51]  Me neither, but I do.
[00:30:52]  I forgot about that.
[00:30:53]  Prince Andrew movies either.
[00:30:54]  Yeah, me neither.
[00:30:55]  Although Jillian Anderson's in one of them.
[00:30:58]  I wouldn't know.
[00:31:00]  She's beautiful.
[00:31:02]  It doesn't.
[00:31:03]  Yeah.
[00:31:04]  Look her up now.
[00:31:05]  You know what?
[00:31:06]  Jillian Anderson.
[00:31:07]  Okay, fine.
[00:31:08]  Jesus Christ.
[00:31:09]  I'm just saying.
[00:31:10]  Jillian Anderson now.
[00:31:12]  She's beautiful.
[00:31:12]  She's beautiful.
[00:31:13]  Hey, there you go.
[00:31:14]  She's very beautiful.
[00:31:15]  No eh about it.
[00:31:16]  I'm not ehing you.
[00:31:17]  This is the same lady from X-Files?
[00:31:18]  Yes.
[00:31:19]  Yes.
[00:31:19]  She looks better blonde.
[00:31:20]  Oh my God.
[00:31:21]  You would say that about anyone.
[00:31:22]  I would.
[00:31:23]  Anyway, the Andrew suit.
[00:31:27]  This eventually gets settled out of court in 2022.
[00:31:30]  He settles for millions, undisclosed, I believe.
[00:31:34]  We don't know.
[00:31:34]  Yeah, we don't know how much.
[00:31:35]  And he was, of course, promptly whisked out of the royal family, never to really be seen again.
[00:31:43]  I think we will see him within our lifetimes.
[00:31:45]  He's going to make a comeback.
[00:31:46]  I think that he needs to try his hand at a Silicon Valley startup again.
[00:31:51]  He was sort of the tech prince.
[00:31:53]  Yes.
[00:31:54]  Well.
[00:31:55]  I mean, he tried.
[00:31:56]  What does he know about AI?
[00:31:58]  Because I feel like Prince Andrew could do a lot.
[00:32:01]  I think so too.
[00:32:02]  With some seed money and a dream.
[00:32:06]  I'm surprised he hasn't gone over to the Gulf.
[00:32:08]  You know what I mean?
[00:32:09]  I feel like he's been started to the Gulf.
[00:32:11]  Oh, he's been to the Gulf.
[00:32:12]  Where else is he going to go?
[00:32:13]  Where does an exiled prince go?
[00:32:14]  The Gulf.
[00:32:15]  That's what I'm saying.
[00:32:16]  The Gulf.
[00:32:16]  Or he should switch sides and join China.
[00:32:19]  No, he can't go there.
[00:32:20]  Yeah, I think he could.
[00:32:22]  But I would say, Prince Andrew, if you're listening to this, you got to go to your setup shop in Dubai or Riyadh or something.
[00:32:30]  Start up some like AI, I don't know, like Real Madrid fake computer game meets like sexy booby lady, AI chappy, chappy.
[00:32:43]  Meets like mining crypto for future infrastructure development micro loans.
[00:32:50]  I mean, I don't like you, Prince Andrew, but if you did want to make like, I don't know, $20 million or something, you go to the Gulf, scam some minor princes out of some money, and then leave the Gulf.
[00:33:00]  And again, I'm saying China.
[00:33:01]  I also want to mention that like, she did, she also, she was sued by Alan Dershowitz.
[00:33:06]  So Dershowitz, who I recently spoke to a couple months ago, I called him when I was on barstool.
[00:33:14]  Oh.
[00:33:15]  And it was rude to him.
[00:33:16]  And they cut it because they were afraid of getting sued.
[00:33:18]  Fair enough.
[00:33:19]  Yeah, I know.
[00:33:19]  I was like, fair enough.
[00:33:20]  That's the thing is we are also literally afraid of getting sued by literally never ever want to speak to that person.
[00:33:27]  He's a piece of shit.
[00:33:28]  I know.
[00:33:28]  I call him sometimes and just talk shit to him because he never remembers.
[00:33:31]  I don't need the legal advice.
[00:33:33]  Yeah.
[00:33:34]  He's your lawyer.
[00:33:34]  I always pretend to be different people when I talk to him, but he never realizes it's the same number.
[00:33:39]  Does he not know that cell phones have, like, they just say the, it says the number and sometimes it even says your name.
[00:33:44]  I know, but he's, he's also, he's like a two-ring pickup guy.
[00:33:48]  Dude, he's got a flip phone.
[00:33:49]  The only other guy like that has ever been George Santos.
[00:33:52]  R.I.P. I know.
[00:33:53]  Is he dead?
[00:33:54]  No, he's going to jail.
[00:33:55]  He is?
[00:33:56]  What?
[00:33:56]  You didn't know this?
[00:33:57]  We got to get him on the show.
[00:33:58]  Geta down.
[00:33:59]  Wow.
[00:34:00]  Yeah, like six years.
[00:34:01]  For what?
[00:34:04]  He's going to jail?
[00:34:05]  Sorry, we have to pause this.
[00:34:07]  George Santos going to jail.
[00:34:10]  This is, oh, he's going to prison on July 25th.
[00:34:14]  Yeah, so he's doing instant.
[00:34:16]  You can get it.
[00:34:16]  I saw it.
[00:34:17]  He's doing instant cameos.
[00:34:21]  We have to have the best summer ever with him.
[00:34:25]  Are you kidding me?
[00:34:25]  Wait, when does he go to prison?
[00:34:27]  July 25th.
[00:34:28]  Oh.
[00:34:29]  So best time.
[00:34:29]  So we got some time.
[00:34:30]  We got a little bit of time.
[00:34:31]  You know what?
[00:34:32]  I mean, I could see him.
[00:34:33]  These sniffies must be going crazy.
[00:34:34]  Fire Island, 4th of July, party in the USA.
[00:34:38]  Get those cameras rolling.
[00:34:40]  Oh, I think he would come on the pod now.
[00:34:42]  We should get him.
[00:34:43]  I don't know if I have anything to say to him.
[00:34:45]  I think, well, my idea is that we get anybody that we know that's been in prison and we have them come and give him advice.
[00:34:50]  Oh, and maybe some a Muslim.
[00:34:55]  I think George, I think he should convert.
[00:34:57]  I think he should convert.
[00:34:58]  Yeah, otherwise, I don't really know.
[00:35:00]  The one thing I don't like about George Santos is like, I don't like when people who are funny become like sentient of their funniness.
[00:35:09]  Classic.
[00:35:09]  It's the classic.
[00:35:10]  And then it's just like, well, you ruined it.
[00:35:12]  It's over.
[00:35:13]  That happened a long time ago.
[00:35:14]  I know.
[00:35:14]  But R.I.P. R.I.P. Regardless, Alan Dershowitz, she settled a suit against Dershowitz that Dershowitz put against her because he was like, nothing ever happened between us.
[00:35:25]  The details of this, of course, nobody knows about.
[00:35:28]  There is, I'm just going to say right now, like, there's a lot of rumors, I guess, because she was represented by David Buies.
[00:35:34]  Yeah.
[00:35:34]  There's all these, David Boys and Dershowitz have a long, bad history together.
[00:35:41]  There are, I mean, this is like a lot of people think maybe David Boyz got her in over her head on that and thought that they could win against Dershowitz and whatever legal maneuver he was planning on doing paid off.
[00:35:54]  Those are straight up rumors.
[00:35:55]  I have no fucking idea.
[00:35:57]  Nobody does because it's never been, there's never, there's not reporting on it or anything like that.
[00:36:05]  But she released a statement saying like, I was mistaken and nothing happened between me and Dershowitz.
[00:36:09]  I think a lot of people have used that as a way to be like, well, she's lying about all this.
[00:36:14]  Yes.
[00:36:14]  I've seen it just this week.
[00:36:16]  Yes, exactly.
[00:36:18]  I mean, Virginia Jeffrey has been, I've read basically every single transcript.
[00:36:24]  I think I have read every single transcript that there is out there of her being interviewed about this stuff.
[00:36:28]  And she has never like, there's not any point where she's like really deeply accusing somebody of this happen at this time in this place.
[00:36:35]  She's like, listen, I was really young.
[00:36:37]  It was a long time ago.
[00:36:38]  I don't know.
[00:36:39]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:36:40]  And there was a case of her being incorrect before, which she also admitted.
[00:36:44]  So she was like, yeah, like I mentioned Al Gore in this one thing, but that actually didn't happen.
[00:36:48]  I was mixing him up with somebody else.
[00:36:49]  Again, we're talking about something that happened when someone was 17.
[00:36:54]  They're being interviewed in many cases, or she's being interviewed in, I think, every case, many years later, decades later in some cases, or over a decade later.
[00:37:05]  And, you know, she was somebody who had a very, very, very, to put it lightly, difficult childhood and was pretty fucked up.
[00:37:12]  I'm just, she was on drugs.
[00:37:13]  She was then trafficked by like this fucking street trafficker and then later basically groomed by this extremely powerful couple who put her through this whirlwind where she was interacting with people.
[00:37:26]  She had no idea who the fuck they were.
[00:37:28]  She didn't know who Tom Pritzker was.

=== Jay Beecher Allegations (15:39) ===

[00:37:30]  You know what I mean?
[00:37:30]  Like this is a this is a teenager that we're talking about here.
[00:37:35]  And so anyways, yes, she settled, she settled with Dershowitz.
[00:37:41]  And yeah, I mean, I think there's two things that a lot of, I guess the people, because I think listeners might be surprised, but there are some very vociferous, vociferous, whatever the word is, haters, like real people who deeply hate Virginia Jeffrey out there.
[00:37:59]  And the two things that they use are the Dershowitz lawsuit and the Prince Andrew photograph.
[00:38:05]  Yeah, I went in a little like got in a rabbit hole looking at the Google folder, Google Doc, Dropbox, whatever it was.
[00:38:15]  Dropbox.
[00:38:16]  Of the evidence against Virginia.
[00:38:20]  And it was extremely tedious.
[00:38:24]  I'll just put it that way.
[00:38:26]  But most of it has to do with the photograph.
[00:38:28]  I think everyone knows the photograph.
[00:38:30]  There's a photograph of Prince Andrew with his arm around a teenage Virginia and then like Ghelane is like lurker in the background.
[00:38:36]  Ghelane is classic lurker, always lurker in the background, which obviously explains a lot psychologically.
[00:38:44]  Ghelane now claims from prison, and this is echoing Prince Andrew, that that photograph of Virginia with Andrew and Ghelane in Ghelane's flat in the UK is a fake, fakery, fakeo, photoshopped, shopped, whatever it was photo, whatever existed of Photoshop in the early 2000s that happened.
[00:39:06]  A ton of other people have piled on this claim, including, and we're going to explain who these people are, because this is a classico Freako episode, George Tonks, which I'm going to be clear because I had an issue with this with Google.
[00:39:20]  It's a George B. Tonks.
[00:39:23]  Lady Victoria.
[00:39:26]  And Jessica Reed Krause.
[00:39:28]  And I want to say, if you're like, I don't know who the fuck those people are, good.
[00:39:32]  Good.
[00:39:34]  But keep listening.
[00:39:42]  So first I want to back up a second and actually talk about a writer for the – I'm actually looking for him right now.
[00:39:50]  A writer for the Kiev's Post named Jay Beecher.
[00:39:55]  So my first sort of like interaction with anybody on the free Ghelane in the free Ghelane world, I guess you would put it.
[00:40:03]  Can you explain what that is for people who are like, what are you fucking talking about?
[00:40:06]  So there are a number of mostly British people who through whatever reason or for whatever reason believe that Ghelane Maxwell is innocent of all charges and that she is being set up by a cabal of teenage girls trying to exploit her for money and that we need to know they run the world.
[00:40:31]  Yes, we do.
[00:40:32]  Girls.
[00:40:33]  And so the first, there's a new numerous sort of dossiers of free Ghelane people.
[00:40:40]  The first I read was a while ago and it was put together by a guy named Jay Beecher.
[00:40:46]  So Jay Beecher and I completely forgot about this until pretty recently, but he was a, he's a British journalist who was a member of UK UKIP, the UK Independence.
[00:41:01]  Oh my God, remember UKIP?
[00:41:02]  Oh yeah.
[00:41:04]  Who later turned against UKIP and wrote a book called UKIP Exposed?
[00:41:08]  Classic UKIP moment.
[00:41:10]  He then started a thing called Vote Watch, which is still on Twitter.
[00:41:14]  And actually, look, followed by Real Ghillain, the Ghana Maxwell.
[00:41:17]  Oh my God.
[00:41:18]  I was like looking at all these British bots I'll talk about, but all of them followed by Real Ghelane, which we should mention, and for all of our listeners who weren't with us during the trial and immediately after, Real Ghelane was the account that was started by one of her family members to just churn out constant free Ghelane propaganda and like reply guy always like all of the people live tweeting the court case.
[00:41:48]  Do you remember?
[00:41:49]  Yes.
[00:41:49]  Yes, I do remember.
[00:41:52]  And they had a great website.
[00:41:53]  Well, I'm looking at his website right now, and it's themaxwellfiles.wordpress.com.
[00:42:00]  And it is, it's very WordPress.
[00:42:05]  I'll say that.
[00:42:08]  Yeah, the real Ghelane, Real Ghelane website is a bit bare bones.
[00:42:15]  Yeah.
[00:42:16]  It's not, they've got a big photo of her.
[00:42:19]  In jail.
[00:42:20]  In jail.
[00:42:21]  She looks stunning.
[00:42:23]  It's a tough, it's tough there.
[00:42:25]  No upper bleff for Ghillain.
[00:42:28]  Yeah, I mean, there is a, there is on the, the Maxwell Files website, there's numerous interviews with Ian Maxwell, her brother.
[00:42:37]  And there are a number of, there's actually a Virginia Jeffrey link on here, a category here.
[00:42:45]  And so we're getting, I mean, we're getting shit here that's like accusers found to be promoting a QAnon conspiracy theory.
[00:42:52]  She lied.
[00:42:53]  Journalist who first printed a Maxwell accuser's claim calls Virginia Jeffrey a blackmailer.
[00:42:58]  Dershowitz claims reporters, blah, blah, blah.
[00:43:01]  Andrew and Maxwell accuser Mitchie lied under oath about being trafficked.
[00:43:04]  The Maxwell Files part one, we need to talk about Virginia.
[00:43:07]  I believe there is no part two to that.
[00:43:10]  I mean, Jay Beecher is an insane person.
[00:43:12]  He later moved to Kiev.
[00:43:14]  And I kind of first came into contact with him because he interviewed a very well-known neo-Nazi woman there who's straight up.
[00:43:21]  It's not like, I'm not doing this like, oh, she's a Ukrainian.
[00:43:25]  Straight up neo-Nazi.
[00:43:26]  Kind of gave her like a hagiographic kind of biography in Kiev Post.
[00:43:33]  And I tweeted about it.
[00:43:34]  And he's like, he DM'd.
[00:43:35]  He's like, hi, I've only just been shown your ridiculous and libelous tweet about me.
[00:43:39]  I'm not hard right wing.
[00:43:41]  I've worked to expose racism and anti-Semitism, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[00:43:45]  And I've never worked on a project to prove Ghelane Maxwell's innocence.
[00:43:49]  I've written about demonstrable false accusations by Virginia Jeffrey.
[00:43:53]  A woman has admitted to having made false accusations.
[00:43:56]  This is pretty rich coming from Brace Belden, who's a convicted criminal who worked with an extremist group accused of ethnic cleansing.
[00:44:03]  Up two things.
[00:44:05]  One, are you a convicted criminal?
[00:44:08]  Multiple arrests, no convictions.
[00:44:11]  Fuck you.
[00:44:12]  Never convicted.
[00:44:13]  I have literally never been convicted.
[00:44:16]  Fuck you.
[00:44:16]  I'm from.
[00:44:17]  I could have said never convicted criminal.
[00:44:19]  I'm an unconvicted.
[00:44:20]  I was a criminal.
[00:44:21]  I got arrested.
[00:44:22]  And yes, I'll admit it.
[00:44:23]  I was fully, every time I've been arrested, guilty.
[00:44:27]  I was doing exactly what they charged me with.
[00:44:29]  But here's the thing, and you might have found this from looking at fucking on social media about, oh, San Francisco fucking doom, Luke, blah, blah, blah.
[00:44:36]  Guess what?
[00:44:37]  San Francisco's permissive justice system let me out every time.
[00:44:42]  They did it.
[00:44:43]  They dropped the charges.
[00:44:44]  And guess what?
[00:44:45]  And when I did, when I, when I, at one time beat the shit out of a guy, unfortunately, I do not really regret this, but really hurt an individual outside of Casanova on Valencia Street.
[00:44:59]  Me and, well, Jordan, if you're listening, you might have helped a couple a little bit.
[00:45:04]  But he for touching my girlfriend, and I was arrested for assault.
[00:45:07]  And he was pressed charges, and then the court just dropped the charges.
[00:45:10]  They just dropped the charges.
[00:45:12]  Wow.
[00:45:12]  Yeah.
[00:45:13]  You really are nine lives.
[00:45:15]  I was literally, Liz, I was caught in the act in probably the least slick drug deal of all time, handing a guy money as he handed me $10, $9 worth of methamphetamine on Market Street at four in the morning.
[00:45:29]  Only two people out there, blurred by the police, got sent to jail, and they just dropped the charges because I agreed to go to treatment.
[00:45:36]  Well, if they would just go to bracebeldon.com and look at the public notice, they would see that you are, in fact, have never been convicted.
[00:45:43]  Actually, if you go to bracebeldon.com, it is a Christmas-themed furniture.
[00:45:48]  Some sort of Christmas-themed furniture.
[00:45:49]  BraceBelton.com is going to get hit real hard by these terrorists.
[00:45:52]  I understand what's going on there.
[00:45:53]  Not to mention, this is what Jay says.
[00:45:55]  Not to mention, he was also a drug addict, so all around a vile scumbag.
[00:46:00]  Then he sends me, Liz, look at this.
[00:46:02]  He sends me multiple paragraphs.
[00:46:04]  I'm fucking not reading that.
[00:46:06]  You responded.
[00:46:07]  And so I was like, sorry, are you going to sue me or what?
[00:46:08]  Because he's like, you're going to sue me.
[00:46:10]  I'm like, also, did you get fired from Kiev Post?
[00:46:12]  How come the Maxwell files are down?
[00:46:14]  He's like, I left Kiev Post because I took on a new contract and don't have time for both.
[00:46:18]  Do you condemn genocide carried out by the extremists?
[00:46:20]  When was this?
[00:46:21]  This was in 2023.
[00:46:24]  And he's like, extremists name them.
[00:46:27]  I was like, and I said Bracelet, he's like, I won't be corresponding with you any further.
[00:46:33]  I'm going to sue you.
[00:46:34]  You're going to be served within 24 hours.
[00:46:36]  And I said, Bracelet is in Jakarta, Indonesia.
[00:46:38]  Are you going to serve him a lawsuit?
[00:46:39]  He's like, True, I'm podcast that's based in America and your little group will be liable.
[00:46:42]  Trust me, I've already been told this and by a lawyer who's well known and take you to the cleaners.
[00:46:48]  Is he aware that British law does not apply to the United States?
[00:46:52]  It doesn't apply.
[00:46:52]  He says, as well as him saying it will also be interesting to have the courts force them to reveal their tax returns and compare them to each individual person's bank statements to see if they've been paying the correct tax, which, by the way, bitch, sorry.
[00:47:06]  Call that some guy.
[00:47:07]  It's out to you.
[00:47:08]  By the way, motherfucker, we do.
[00:47:10]  He knows.
[00:47:10]  He bleeps it when you say anything.
[00:47:12]  I'm not going down like Capone.
[00:47:14]  I pay my fucking taxes.
[00:47:16]  And I said, what happens if we win the lawsuit?
[00:47:17]  And he says, Capone, you win.
[00:47:19]  He says, 100%, you will not win.
[00:47:21]  And then he sends me all these other paragraphs and then blocked me.
[00:47:24]  So that's the first free Ghelane person I came across.
[00:47:26]  And I was like, this guy's a nutmeg.
[00:47:28]  He's a nut.
[00:47:30]  But I was like, it's surely, this is just a lone nut that the Maxwell family, the massive, massive Maxwell family found, you know, some lunatic on the side of the road that they found sort of crawling around Britain.
[00:47:44]  I think there was maybe some other allegations made against Jay Beecher.
[00:47:48]  Let me just Google Jay Beecher allegations.
[00:47:54]  No, but he was threatened by the Georgian Legion.
[00:47:56]  So, okay, maybe support for them on that.
[00:48:01]  But I want to talk about the people you mentioned, George Tonks, Lady Victoria, and Jessica Reedcross.
[00:48:10]  Real quick before we do, because I do want to mention this, as I was perusing realghillain.com, Ghillain has filed a petition to the U.S. Supreme Court.
[00:48:23]  And I'm just going to read from this.
[00:48:25]  This was on April 10th.
[00:48:28]  And this seems to be the kind of like last ditch effort.
[00:48:34]  But it says, Today, Ghelane Maxwell has filed a petition to the U.S. Supreme Court asking to be heard and to resolve the difference between Florida, New York, and the other federal districts and their interpretation of the scope of the promise not to prosecute.
[00:48:45]  So this has to do with the non-prosecution agreement.
[00:48:48]  But basically, she's trying to get the Supreme Court to rule on whether or not it says, despite the agreement promising that the United States would not prosecute any co-conspirator of Jeffrey Epstein, the United States, after forum shopping, prosecuted Ghillaine Maxwell in New York.
[00:49:07]  So she's trying to get, she and her lawyers are trying to get the Supreme Court to decide whether or not the entire case should be thrown out.
[00:49:18]  And I just wanted to mention that.
[00:49:20]  Well, I'm looking at the FAQ or the facts section of the Real Ghelane website.
[00:49:26]  And she, you know, she's updated?
[00:49:27]  Yeah, well, it seems like she's been become a bit of a jailhouse lawyer.
[00:49:31]  You know, she talks about helping people with their legal cases.
[00:49:34]  And it's interesting.
[00:49:34]  She says, I don't know if I'd want her to help me with my legal case.
[00:49:37]  Does Ghillain consider herself to be a victim?
[00:49:40]  And I think this is important because it really dovetails with a lot of kind of what we're about to be talking about.
[00:49:46]  I don't particularly like the word victim.
[00:49:48]  I think it's one that should be used very sparingly.
[00:49:50]  I'm going to wait until post-appeal to evaluate aspects of my life, but I won't use that word victimhood.
[00:49:55]  Obviously, an experience like this changes you, but I'm some of the same person I was.
[00:50:01]  And so, rather than look at what I've lost, I'm trying to look at what I've gained.
[00:50:05]  Yeah.
[00:50:06]  And I say that Epstein died, and they should take their disappointment and upset out on the authorities that allowed that to happen.
[00:50:11]  And as I said, I hope they have some closure by the judicial process that took place.
[00:50:15]  And I wish them time to heal and be able to have a productive and good life going forward.
[00:50:18]  That's what I hope for them.
[00:50:20]  But she talks about how the photo is fake.
[00:50:26]  And this is something the photo of Prince Andrew and Ghillain and Virginia Jeffrey is fake.
[00:50:33]  This has been like Ghelane's stance from the beginning.
[00:50:37]  I think to me, I've always read that as Ghelane was embarrassed at this sort of lapse in security protocols, maybe.
[00:50:46]  You know, we're dealing with somebody who's a member of the royal family, something so crude.
[00:50:50]  I mean, it's not that Prince Andrew has, he's been photographed in many unflattering situations.
[00:50:56]  And sweaty.
[00:50:56]  And very sweaty.
[00:50:57]  And like, oh, there's a numerous disgusting photos of Prince Andrew out there.
[00:51:03]  Fuck him partying hard, white lotus style.
[00:51:05]  Can you imagine the MDMA just dissolving under his loot?
[00:51:11]  Anyways, but she has always maintained that the photograph is fake.
[00:51:16]  Let's talk about Tonks.
[00:51:17]  Okay, so his name's George B. Tonks.
[00:51:19]  And I say that because I just want to mention his middle name is Bing.
[00:51:23]  Interesting.
[00:51:23]  George Bing Tonks.
[00:51:25]  And he's also gone by different aliases, too.
[00:51:26]  I think one of them.
[00:51:27]  Shout out Chandler.
[00:51:30]  He is a convicted fraudster.
[00:51:34]  He made a bunch of now recanted allegations against Les Wexner.
[00:51:39]  I was like completely unfamiliar with this character.
[00:51:43]  So I've known who Tonks is for a number of years because I think maybe three or four years ago, he started attaching himself to a different Epstein person involved in the Epstein, like a victim who was maybe going through some, who was, who was sort of publicly going through some difficult times.
[00:52:07]  And I was like, this guy is so clearly a schizophrenic, insane person.
[00:52:12]  Like his profile picture back then was a picture of his fucking ankle bracelet.
[00:52:17]  Like he, I looked him up.
[00:52:19]  I was like, this guy, because someone tried to put me in contact with him.
[00:52:23]  And I was like, dude, this guy is like obviously just a crazy person.
[00:52:27]  Like, I don't know, like, this is a nut.
[00:52:31]  And I, of course, I looked up into his court case and I'm like, oh, he's like not only a nut, he's like evil.
[00:52:37]  Yeah, he pled guilty to wire fraud for defrauding an elderly woman in Iowa out of like $200,000 through like he was running a fake lottery scale.
[00:52:45]  Yeah.
[00:52:46]  Just like bullshit.
[00:52:47]  He then like made up these claims that he was a victim of abuse by a bunch of different people, but most notably Les Wexner, which I guess is how he kind of came to attach himself to a bunch of the Epstein people.
[00:52:59]  Like by Epstein people, I mean like people in the, I don't know what sort of victim sphere?
[00:53:07]  Victim ecosystem sphere.

=== Ex Model's 90s Trash (15:49) ===

[00:53:10]  Yeah.
[00:53:11]  He didn't make like a real legal complaint.
[00:53:14]  Like he didn't make any like formal complaint or any kind of suit.
[00:53:18]  Like everything is just kind of scattered around like weird blog posts and social media posts.
[00:53:22]  And he, like you said, he like got close to one of the victims and then he like turned against her and he sent a bunch of stuff to her lawyers.
[00:53:32]  Like yeah, and she's like, she was sort of like he was really, I think what, I mean, and this is not, this is basically based off my own feeling.
[00:53:42]  The feeling that I got was this guy saw settlement money coming for some of these things.
[00:53:48]  And he, he's also fucking crazy, I think.
[00:53:51]  I mean, visibly.
[00:53:52]  I mean, this is, I'm sorry, one look at any of his social media, like, oh, this is an insane person.
[00:53:58]  But I think he sort of attached himself to some vulnerable people and who, you know, for whatever, however he did it, and thought maybe he could either get some of the money from him or attach himself to some of these suits or something like that.
[00:54:13]  And he tried that and he was really, really, really trying to use his connections with an Epstein victim to try to get press for himself.
[00:54:24]  And I think that when that backfired, he turned because he turned.
[00:54:30]  Yeah.
[00:54:31]  You know, I had not, I had sort of like lost track of him.
[00:54:35]  I had been thinking, I haven't thought about him in years.
[00:54:38]  And when I was, when we were kind of going through some stuff in this episode, I was like, oh my God, like George Tonks has not only like not disappeared, he's like in with more people now, but on the opposite side.
[00:54:50]  Yeah, everyone's kind of like gone through the looking glass on this stuff and playing both sides.
[00:54:55]  He has like a whole Dropbox dossier that he spreads around with evidence against Virginia.
[00:55:01]  He is like the number one Virginia attacker.
[00:55:04]  And many of those, I mean, I mentioned this, but like many of this stuff that he's amplifying has then been like reposted and further amplified by members of the Maxwell family and the associated hashtag Free Galain accounts, which I think like our either bots are all run by members of the Maxwell family.
[00:55:23]  Yeah, I mean, or bots run by the Maxwell family.
[00:55:25]  Really similar.
[00:55:26]  I get a very similar vibe off of these, I guess, to like some of the, remember the Depp, Johnny Depp Ever Heard stuff?
[00:55:34]  Yeah.
[00:55:34]  To some of those accounts.
[00:55:35]  You're like, there's no way a human being is running this.
[00:55:38]  This is like, you have to be like a total schizophrenic crazy person because this is just nuts.
[00:55:44]  People say crazy shit online.
[00:55:46]  Yeah.
[00:55:46]  People, especially Stan culture, influencing these sort of the way people view these things.
[00:55:55]  Although I'm like, who are you a stan of?
[00:55:57]  Like, Prince Andrew?
[00:55:58]  It makes no sense.
[00:55:59]  Yeah.
[00:56:00]  So one of the people that's been like really instrumental, I think most instrumental in amplifying Tonks's insane.
[00:56:09]  By the way, we read through these dossiers.
[00:56:12]  I read, I didn't read all of them.
[00:56:13]  I didn't read all of them.
[00:56:15]  Some of them are, no, some of them were just like court documents or whatever.
[00:56:18]  Tonks' whole thing is that Virginia was in cahoots with these lawyers to basically extort people.
[00:56:26]  Yeah.
[00:56:26]  Like this is just one massive extortion scheme by a teenage prostitute.
[00:56:30]  That is like, that is their story and they're sticking through it to it.
[00:56:35]  One of the most prominent boosters of this story is a woman named Lady Victoria Hervey.
[00:56:42]  This woman is a nut.
[00:56:45]  Yeah.
[00:56:46]  She's a, I guess she calls herself a British socialite.
[00:56:51]  I need a like, she was an ex-model.
[00:56:54]  I'm going to need some like more citations there.
[00:56:57]  But she did, she dated Prince Andrew back in the 90s and is basically one of the only people left on Prince Andrew Island.
[00:57:05]  Like she is just like still a vocal defender of Prince Andrew.
[00:57:10]  There literally is like basically nobody on like in British society except for Lady Victoria Hervey who's like Prince Andrew, we need justice for Prince Andrew.
[00:57:22]  She is also a QAnon person.
[00:57:25]  She is and a former contestant on Love Island, I believe, too.
[00:57:28]  Oh, that makes a lot of sense.
[00:57:29]  I was going to say that she, like you put a little image of her from her Instagram here.
[00:57:35]  Like she, I do feel like in Andy Cohen's hands, like some magic could be made here.
[00:57:42]  Definitely.
[00:57:43]  But, you know, the political climate has changed.
[00:57:47]  She, she was like an it girl at some point in the 90s.
[00:57:53]  I mean, so.
[00:57:53]  Who wasn't?
[00:57:55]  Was there, Liz?
[00:57:56]  You know more about this than me.
[00:57:57]  Was it, we had a surplus of it girls in the 1990s.
[00:58:01]  Well, yeah.
[00:58:01]  I mean, that was kind of when the, you know, that's like when a little bit of the industry of calling everyone it girls was like kind of a thing.
[00:58:08]  I know.
[00:58:09]  I'm like, also in the UK, because it's also, remember, in Britain, like this is the like Brit Pop moment, mid to late 90s.
[00:58:22]  The UK is like having a big cultural, like they're very culturally relevant.
[00:58:27]  Yes.
[00:58:27]  Like huge, really.
[00:58:28]  Last gasp of the last.
[00:58:30]  It kind of was.
[00:58:31]  I do feel about it.
[00:58:32]  But it really was, you know, an important moment.
[00:58:34]  Not just Spice Girl.
[00:58:34]  I mean, there's so much.
[00:58:36]  I mean, even, you know, Tony Blair bringing it all across the world.
[00:58:41]  Anyway, there were a lot of looky-loos into British society and just like kind of like socialites were, you know, in New York and in London.
[00:58:52]  It was like kind of a big thing.
[00:58:54]  Yeah.
[00:58:55]  Until the Hilton Girls.
[00:58:56]  I'm assuming that's like where she maybe came into contact with Ghelane at some point.
[00:59:00]  Obviously.
[00:59:01]  But yeah, she dated Prince Andrew.
[00:59:03]  Also the family connections.
[00:59:05]  Yeah, of course.
[00:59:05]  Obviously.
[00:59:06]  I mean, they would know each other.
[00:59:09]  She is.
[00:59:11]  I got to tell you, that picture is just so crazy.
[00:59:15]  The one on Instagram.
[00:59:16]  Yeah.
[00:59:16]  But Liz, you should read the caption out.
[00:59:18]  I mean, this is just a sample caption from February 2021.
[00:59:23]  How is everybody doing?
[00:59:25]  I know this past year has been apocalyptic for many, and it's been a time to really filter out good versus evil in so many ways.
[00:59:34]  But what I've personally learned from everything has been mind-blowing.
[00:59:39]  Having had time to really research, I love when girls talk about researching.
[00:59:45]  You mean read Instagram stories?
[00:59:47]  Having had time to really research and analyze situations going on and not letting myself be blinded and brainwashed by the MSM, parentheses, mainstream media.
[00:59:59]  Hollywood is like a bunch of MK Ultra zombies walking around.
[01:00:04]  You see, I used to be someone that watched CNN and believed what I saw.
[01:00:09]  BLM, global mass voter fraud, Hollywood's dark satanic cults, Wall Street, the Federal Reserve are finally being exposed.
[01:00:20]  Child trafficking, Adrenochrome, the cabal is finally falling.
[01:00:25]  Enjoy the ride.
[01:00:27]  I actually think that could be read like to the like REM beat.
[01:00:32]  Dude, imagine getting into QAnon in February 2021.
[01:00:38]  I mean, is that not the saddest thing you've ever heard?
[01:00:40]  It's so sad.
[01:00:41]  You are so, sweetheart.
[01:00:43]  You are 2016.
[01:00:46]  You are so late on this.
[01:00:47]  You are so late on this.
[01:00:48]  But Victoria Hervey is a very interesting person in this because, A, she's still like totally accepted by large swaths of, I guess you could call it like right-wing culture.
[01:01:04]  Well, that's not surprising.
[01:01:05]  I'm sorry.
[01:01:06]  This is like a.
[01:01:07]  I'm sorry.
[01:01:08]  If one of you came to me.
[01:01:09]  But like Mike Cernovich has said this kind of shit.
[01:01:11]  Yeah, I know.
[01:01:11]  Well, that's the thing is like, I think.
[01:01:12]  She's not like going to the Met Galaxy.
[01:01:14]  You're all fucking schizophrenic.
[01:01:16]  I'm sorry.
[01:01:17]  She's trash.
[01:01:18]  She's trash.
[01:01:18]  She's fucking, they're trashy schizophrenics.
[01:01:21]  Do you know how many like sad British aristocrat trash there is?
[01:01:24]  It's like, first of all, it's all of it, obviously.
[01:01:26]  But I mean, look at this.
[01:01:28]  She was on Love Island.
[01:01:29]  She was on Love Island.
[01:01:30]  She's not a serious person.
[01:01:32]  It's not.
[01:01:32]  But she became a very big free Ghelane person, which I think we, you know, she might have discovered a niche for herself to both believe 100% in everything QAnon and then also be like Ghelane Maxwell innocent.
[01:01:45]  I do think she's kind of pretty.
[01:01:47]  You do?
[01:01:48]  She's got great legs.
[01:01:50]  You're saying that too.
[01:01:52]  You're fucking saying, no, you're just saying that.
[01:01:54]  I just, it's something I made a mental note of.
[01:01:56]  I mean, I don't think she's pretty.
[01:01:58]  She looks, she has a like Doreet Hemsley thing going on.
[01:02:01]  I love Doreen.
[01:02:02]  I don't know who that is.
[01:02:03]  The legs are, the legs are pretty good.
[01:02:05]  The legs are pretty good.
[01:02:06]  You can tell she was an ex-model.
[01:02:07]  You can tell she's an ex-model.
[01:02:09]  Yeah, and you can tell she's an ex-model from a British ex-model.
[01:02:11]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:02:12]  A British ex-model.
[01:02:13]  Yes.
[01:02:13]  She was a British ex-model.
[01:02:14]  She was a British ex-model, which I think is, you know.
[01:02:17]  But I'm no longer commenting on women's appearances.
[01:02:19]  I love that for you.
[01:02:20]  But she does sort of look, there's a bit of like an avian thing going on.
[01:02:24]  Oh, yeah.
[01:02:25]  No, she does look like her bones are like she has avian bird bones.
[01:02:28]  She's bird bones.
[01:02:29]  I'm not saying it's good or bad.
[01:02:30]  I'm just saying she has bird bones.
[01:02:32]  But I will say, and again, this isn't a comment on appearances.
[01:02:34]  This is a comment more on soul.
[01:02:37]  We have the eyes of a nut here.
[01:02:39]  I've looked into a lot of people's eyes in my life.
[01:02:42]  Oh, yeah, she's got crazy eyes.
[01:02:43]  She's got, and I hate, that's such a tired thing to say about somebody, but I'm sorry.
[01:02:48]  This Instagram picture I posted here, these are crazy motherfucking eyes right there.
[01:02:54]  She has been like, fuck Virginia for years.
[01:02:59]  Yeah.
[01:02:59]  So we talked about when Virginia posted that pretty disturbing photo of herself, like in a hospital bed.
[01:03:05]  I don't know.
[01:03:06]  I'm not like sure exactly what's going on there, Bruce's internal bleeding or what that was.
[01:03:12]  But immediately after that, Lady Victoria, who clearly, so you're keeping tabs on this thing.
[01:03:18]  Oh, she's super keeping tabs on it.
[01:03:19]  I'm like, do you have notifications on?
[01:03:21]  Because that's fucking good.
[01:03:22]  I guarantee you.
[01:03:23]  Notifications on, yes.
[01:03:24]  She posted immediately on Instagram with like, I think it was in stories and saying, if Virginia Jeffrey really does have days to live, then a complete confession is needed.
[01:03:35]  I do not believe it, though.
[01:03:37]  The FBI are on her right now and arrest warrants are coming.
[01:03:41]  She's conveniently dying to evade jail.
[01:03:44]  That is, okay.
[01:03:46]  She's conveniently dying.
[01:03:48]  I'm sorry.
[01:03:50]  Guys, the plan.
[01:03:52]  You're gonna, in order to evade jail, just die.
[01:03:58]  Just die.
[01:03:59]  Oh, just die.
[01:04:00]  That's no one's plan.
[01:04:02]  What's convenient about that?
[01:04:03]  That's the opposite of the best.
[01:04:04]  It's one of the least convenient plans I've ever heard in my life.
[01:04:08]  Dying?
[01:04:09]  Instead of, yeah, it makes no sense.
[01:04:11]  Anyway, she then mentioned that Virginia's husband, Robert, by then estranged husband, like she mentioned him saying that, oh, he knows the truth, basically intimating that that's why he left her, left Virginia, and that he like knew all about the fake photos and all the con jobs.
[01:04:31]  And he's like taking the children away and all this.
[01:04:34]  There's like really, really gross stuff.
[01:04:36]  And then the night that Virginia died, just however many days ago, Lady Victoria posted a link to a story, like it was like the story of the Daily Mail or whatever it was, with, when lies catch up with you, there's no way out.
[01:04:55]  And then like two hours later, because everyone was like, obviously like, dude, what the fuck?
[01:05:00]  Like this woman just like fucking killed herself.
[01:05:02]  Like, what are you doing?
[01:05:04]  Yeah.
[01:05:04]  She then, Victoria, then Lady Victoria then posted, I have taken the decision to pause my posts at this time.
[01:05:13]  Yes.
[01:05:13]  Which I just loved the way that she says that is also like so British.
[01:05:17]  Like, oh, pause the posts, please.
[01:05:20]  It's like not, is that not the most British thing you've ever heard?
[01:05:23]  I've elected to pause my Instagram posts at this juncture.
[01:05:27]  But Liz, I would like you to go to Lady Victoria Hervey's Instagram right now because I think that maybe Lady Victoria cannot stop herself.
[01:05:38]  I mean, anyone who's that queued up is like fucking posting through it.
[01:05:43]  It's so gauche that this woman of, how old is she, like 50?
[01:05:47]  That she has the like cursive italic e-girl font in her Instagram bio.
[01:05:53]  With the pink bow emoji.
[01:05:55]  Bitch, grow up.
[01:05:56]  Stop.
[01:05:57]  Oh my God.
[01:05:57]  So I think you should read the latest.
[01:06:01]  I'm not commenting on women's appearances.
[01:06:03]  I am.
[01:06:04]  Well, I'm, but I will just say that she makes some interesting decisions.
[01:06:10]  You can just say whatever Liz said.
[01:06:13]  She's whatever Liz said here, but I want you to read her latest Instagram post caption from 11 hours ago as of this recording.
[01:06:22]  Okay, so she's in front of a cherry blossom tree next to a harp.
[01:06:29]  A harp player in an like outdoor living room.
[01:06:32]  Well, we'll talk about actually where some of these pictures are.
[01:06:34]  Where the fuck is that?
[01:06:35]  Is that in DC?
[01:06:36]  She's in D.C. She's in D.C.
[01:06:37]  Oh, she's in D.C. Some of this is embassy.
[01:06:40]  And some of these are maybe at an Airbnb that is being rented by a blogger.
[01:06:47]  Oh, I see.
[01:06:51]  Washington, D.C.
[01:06:54]  Oh my God, she's so trashy.
[01:06:56]  Okay.
[01:06:57]  Let's be very clear.
[01:06:59]  Killing yourself doesn't wipe the slate clean of all the lies you've told.
[01:07:03]  Those deceptions don't just vanish.
[01:07:05]  They linger like a stain on your legacy that no amount of disappearing can erase.
[01:07:10]  Jesus.
[01:07:12]  I believe the burden of ripping off innocent victims became too much to bear.
[01:07:18]  That kind of haunting feeling, almost like it's eating away at you from the inside.
[01:07:23]  It's the attorneys running this extortion enterprise who put these girls up to their stories that should be held accountable.
[01:07:33]  Jesus, lady, let it, come on.
[01:07:35]  Who follows this woman?
[01:07:37]  Like, why would you follow her?
[01:07:39]  I know.
[01:07:39]  I'm looking through the likes on this.
[01:07:42]  I mean, I can't, I can't.
[01:07:44]  Yeah.
[01:07:45]  Anyway.
[01:07:45]  I don't have any idea who these people are.
[01:07:47]  So, I mean, I want to say that when all of this went down, Lady Victoria was photographed at a party with another Epstein Extended Universe character who we've talked a lot about, Vicki Ward.
[01:08:00]  Yes.
[01:08:00]  Who I think is like, it's fair to say is like a grifter of sorts who's sort of in like she's in the same vibe as a lot of these people, even though she's like ostensibly a journalist or whatever.
[01:08:15]  She found herself in hot water for papering over a bunch of Epstein abuse allegations by the Farmer Sisters in Vanity Fair, which people should remember.
[01:08:23]  But they were photographed together at a MAGA event, which we're going to talk about.
[01:08:27]  But I want to just like replay this a little bit.
[01:08:30]  So back in the early 2000s, the Farmer Sisters, Annie and Maria, they went on the record with Vicki Ward about Epstein and Maxwell.
[01:08:38]  And you guys should remember we have Maria Farmer on our podcast.
[01:08:41]  Annie Farmer was a witness in the Ghillain Maxwell trial.
[01:08:46]  The article eventually appearing in Vanity Fair didn't include any of the allegations.
[01:08:51]  And Vicki Ward came out and blamed all of that on Graydon Carter.
[01:08:56]  And she was like, oh, it's Epstein's influence on Graydon Carter.

=== Crazy Stories About Rothschild (16:05) ===

[01:08:59]  There's like all these crazy stories about it.
[01:09:01]  Whatever.
[01:09:01]  We've been through this a billion times.
[01:09:03]  But Carter came out and said, that's not how it all went down.
[01:09:06]  Who knows?
[01:09:07]  But years later in 2011, and this is like right after Epstein was released from his like not jail jail sentence, Vicki Ward chose again to write about Jeffrey and Ghillain.
[01:09:20]  And people might remember this because it was like an insanely flattering piece.
[01:09:25]  Like it was like, oh, I've gotten to know Jeffrey and Ghillain far better after.
[01:09:29]  I kept writing it to both of them separately at parties.
[01:09:32]  Full disclosure.
[01:09:33]  I like her.
[01:09:34]  She's always the most interesting, most vivacious, most unusual person in any room.
[01:09:39]  And so flash forward, years and years later, Isaac Treutner from The New Yorker questioned Vicki about all of this.
[01:09:48]  And this is what Vicki had to say because he was like, wait, why did you had the Farmer Sisters on record?
[01:09:55]  Like, why didn't you mention any of that?
[01:09:58]  And then all of these people, like Epstein, you already knew that he like had served his jail time and how awful all this stuff was.
[01:10:07]  Like, why are you writing this puff piece?
[01:10:09]  And Vicki Ward is like, I think the reason I did that was that the media industry was imploding.
[01:10:15]  I was really worried about money and having a tricky time.
[01:10:19]  Everyone was desperate for content.
[01:10:21]  I think it made me feel good, actually.
[01:10:24]  And I just wanted to like go back over this story because I think that like that is so succinct and actually well said, because I genuinely do think that that is how all of these people operate.
[01:10:37]  And it seems to be a theme basically regardless of how many bodies pile up in the wake.
[01:10:47]  Yeah, I think Vicki Ward has tried to reinvent herself several times.
[01:10:51]  I think for very good reason.
[01:10:53]  And I think she has tried to put blame onto other people, including Grading Carter, who I'm sure it was like, you know, don't publish this or whatever.
[01:11:02]  From what I read, it was like he was like, I don't really remember, but I know that none of us trusted her.
[01:11:08]  Yeah, I mean, she's a total operator, right?
[01:11:10]  And like, this is one of those people where I'm like, I don't understand how this person has a career.
[01:11:14]  Like, she just seems like a, I don't know, just a piece of shit.
[01:11:18]  But that, like, one of the most famous kind of quotes that is sort of attributed to anybody involved in the Epstein thing is Alex Acosta saying to his interviews at the Trump transition team that Epstein, he was told to leave Epstein alone because he, quote, belonged to intelligence.
[01:11:36]  And that actually comes from a Vicki Ward opinion piece in the Daily Mail.
[01:11:40]  And I think a lot of Vicki Ward's writing involving about this case has sort of been to kind of obscure her own role in this in later years.
[01:11:52]  And like, because Vicki Ward was a socialite, right?
[01:11:54]  Like she was, she still is a socialite.
[01:11:56]  And she's, she's, you know, kind of part of these social crowds that ran in these circles.
[01:12:01]  And, you know, it's like asking, you know, she's asking basically to report on her friends.
[01:12:05]  So the photo of Vicki and Lady Victoria, that was taken by Jessica Reed Krauss of House and Habit, who we're going to talk about in a second.
[01:12:11]  That was at the British Embassy in Washington, D.C. as part of the like pre-White House correspondence festivities.
[01:12:19]  So this just happened.
[01:12:21]  It looked like a bit of a drab party.
[01:12:24]  I mean, times are tough for the Brits, as we all know.
[01:12:27]  Delighting in this party is disgusting.
[01:12:29]  I mean, it was really horrifying.
[01:12:31]  Low class.
[01:12:32]  It was so, it was like fluorescent and neon, like Miami style, but in a like cheap condo with like high gloss marble everywhere.
[01:12:43]  And like, there was like photo, there was like Andy Warhol of Queen Elizabeth.
[01:12:48]  I'm just like, what are we doing?
[01:12:49]  This looks like a fucking condo.
[01:12:52]  But my own party taste aside, this is actually from reporting on the party.
[01:12:59]  And so I just, to give a, you know, give a vibe check here, party guests remarked that the affair seemed bare bones compared to other years when it was the pinnacle of Washington events during the weekend.
[01:13:12]  Unlike the iconic British dishes, mini beef, Wellingtons, and fish and chips, which are usually passed around, there were tiny mini tacos and toasts with mushrooms.
[01:13:22]  Two main bars, one outside, one inside, were packed with thirsty guests.
[01:13:27]  One guest said she asked for champagne and was told there was nothing sparkling, not even Prosecco on offer.
[01:13:35]  Nothing sparkling, but more about the guests.
[01:13:39]  Jesus Christ.
[01:13:41]  So the reason we bring up that this photo was taken at the British Embassy is because the British ambassador to the U.S., why?
[01:13:50]  It's Lord Peter Mandelson, close friend of one Jeffrey Epstein.
[01:13:56]  I love, I want to say right here, Keir Starmer is, I think it cannot be anything but the truth that Keir Starmer is the most prominent socialist in the Western world.
[01:14:14]  And I did my research.
[01:14:15]  There is no other government.
[01:14:17]  I mean, maybe things have changed since I did this research a few months ago.
[01:14:19]  There is no other government in Western Europe where a socialist party does not rule without a coalition with another party.
[01:14:29]  Labor, as far as I know, Socialist Party, no?
[01:14:35]  You don't agree, Kier Starmer?
[01:14:37]  I mean, wait, I don't.
[01:14:39]  What an ugly guy.
[01:14:40]  What an ugly guy.
[01:14:41]  I told you he looks like, what's his face?
[01:14:43]  What?
[01:14:44]  Richard Spencer.
[01:14:45]  Richard Spencer.
[01:14:46]  He does look like Richard Spencer.
[01:14:47]  He looks like Richard Spencer before the Ozempic.
[01:14:50]  Oh boy.
[01:14:51]  He's bad.
[01:14:52]  Yeah, he's a little puffy.
[01:14:53]  It's disgusting.
[01:14:54]  So Lord Peter Mandelson is a Labor Party grandee, meaning he is a piece of shit.
[01:15:02]  And he's like every kind of piece of shit that you can ever even imagine.
[01:15:06]  It's funny.
[01:15:09]  I would almost be forced to respect the guy because he is like almost as well known for being hated as he is for the stuff that he's hated for, if that makes sense.
[01:15:19]  Like he's literally famous for being despicable, which is in a, you know, in a sort of roundabout way, kind of admirable.
[01:15:27]  So he's from a rather pedigreed family.
[01:15:29]  His father was the manager of Jewish Chronicles ad department.
[01:15:33]  His mother was from a party of, excuse me, a family of Labor Party grandees.
[01:15:39]  I can't say this shit.
[01:15:41]  His grandfather, Herbert Morrison, held a number of cabinet positions in a series of labor governments throughout the beginning half of the 20th century.
[01:15:51]  Herbert Morrison was also the co-author of the Morrison Grady Plan, which proposed a British-controlled federation of states in modern-day Palestine-Israel under the ultimate control of the British government.
[01:16:03]  Essentially, a confederation of ethnically divided localities that were like all sort of united under a central government.
[01:16:10]  This actually was like kind of in the running to maybe get adopted, but there was a couple incidents, including one, very strong Zionist lobby in the U.S. that was like, Truman, you can't do this.
[01:16:22]  And then also, of course, the war.
[01:16:24]  Mandelson himself became a Labor Party press flak.
[01:16:28]  He actually says that he left the Labor Party, or like, I think if they think he left the Labor Party, he didn't leave the Labor Party.
[01:16:34]  The Labor Party left him.
[01:16:35]  Yes, over Israel in the 80s.
[01:16:37]  He said they got too crazy on it.
[01:16:40]  He was, but he became a Labor Party press flak, nicknamed the Lord of Darkness.
[01:16:47]  He was hugely influential in New Labor.
[01:16:50]  He was almost more Blairite than Blair.
[01:16:53]  He was also massively, publicly, and frequently corrupt in incredible ways.
[01:17:00]  I mean, we're not even going to go over all of his scandals because there's literally too many.
[01:17:04]  We could just do a whole episode only talking about like a handful of the sticky wickets he's got himself caught in.
[01:17:12]  But it's amazing.
[01:17:13]  Numerous downfalls, numerous comebacks.
[01:17:16]  I don't know who his like constituency is.
[01:17:18]  I'm not talking about his Labor Party constituency, but his literal, like, who likes this guy?
[01:17:22]  Apparently, Keir.
[01:17:24]  Keir loves him.
[01:17:26]  His first one was his first scandal.
[01:17:28]  He's getting a huge interest-free home loan from a rich labor MP that Mandelson himself in his cabinet position under Tony Blair was investigating.
[01:17:38]  So he got like 300,000 pounds from a guy that he was supposed to be investigating in an interest-free loan, which means a bribe.
[01:17:45]  He was always constantly fighting against the unions, hugely pro-privatization, really involved in privatizing, like he really wanted to privatize Royal Post Office.
[01:17:55]  Was firmly on the right of the Labor Party, but made so many powerful people, so much money, that no matter which way like the tides changed, he was always able to kind of get back to the center.
[01:18:06]  He became commissioner to the EU in the 2000s, a trade commissioner, which he very much himself traded on later.
[01:18:15]  One of his biggest scandals was a huge controversy over him being photographed on a yacht off of Corfu with Oleg Darapaska and Chancellor of the Exchequer.
[01:18:28]  Exchequer.
[01:18:28]  I know, but what the exchequer?
[01:18:31]  Exchequer George Osborne.
[01:18:34]  The trio was dining with Conservative Party financier Andrew Feldman and Nathaniel Rothschild.
[01:18:42]  Now, let me be clear: Nathaniel Rothschild is from a different branch of the Rothschild family than Ariana de Rothschild, who was Epstein's very close friend and ally.
[01:18:54]  But just thought it was a little interesting there.
[01:18:55]  And he plays a very funny part in this whole scandal.
[01:18:58]  So Oleg Daripaska, we've talked about on the show before, famous metals trader and oligarch from Russia.
[01:19:04]  And people always are like, well, how, you know, you call rich people from Russia oligarchs.
[01:19:09]  That's like anti-Russian, whatever.
[01:19:10]  I'm like, but when I feel like when I hear that, I mean, like, mafia-linked large businessmen.
[01:19:16]  And I feel like Oleg Dariposka is like, Yeah, I think that most people that criticize that are more like, why don't we use that for our mafia-linked big businessmen?
[01:19:24]  Exactly, yeah, which I understand.
[01:19:25]  Which I think that's kind of what Sanders and Nancy are doing right now.
[01:19:28]  Oh, yeah, they're saying it a lot.
[01:19:30]  He's also famous, of course, for his role in the Russia gate scandal.
[01:19:34]  And of course, the former employer of Paul Manafort.
[01:19:38]  And I want to say, I will report here that he also, when there was a POW trade between Russian and Ukrainian POWs, he handed everybody a brand new iPhone that was playing.
[01:19:53]  If you're here to hear it first, American Made.
[01:19:55]  American Made, yeah.
[01:19:56]  But he's also, and then I think around the same time, also was under indicted by the U.S. for something.
[01:20:02]  It was like in 2022.
[01:20:03]  I don't know.
[01:20:04]  I think it was in 2020.
[01:20:05]  I guess that was after.
[01:20:07]  Anyways, so the press, when this broke, because there's photographs and it's like, oh, the guys from the Labor Party and the Conservative Party are meeting with this oligarch on a yacht in Corfu.
[01:20:17]  A lot of it focused on Mandelson because of his role as the EU trade commissioner, where he'd overseen aluminium tariff cuts that directly benefited Daripasca.
[01:20:30]  But it became more controversial when Nathaniel Rothschild stabbed, well, that's loaded with tropes.
[01:20:37]  He, well, I'll say it anyways.
[01:20:40]  He stabbed Osborne in the back when he sent a letter to the Times saying that Osborne and Feldman had on that yacht discussed how Daripasca could funnel donations to the Conservative Party.
[01:20:52]  And it became a huge scandal.
[01:20:55]  This, however, did not stop Mandelson, who was seemingly hated by everybody except the ultra-rich, from joining the House of Lords in 2008.
[01:21:03]  He also, of course, you knew it was coming, started a Tony Blair-style consulting firm around the same time, working, it seems, with a ton of multinational clients that he has never maybe officially disclosed.
[01:21:16]  And also, I think, works pretty closely with the Chinese.
[01:21:20]  He comes back into government with the in 2009 with the first Secretary of State title.
[01:21:26]  And this is something that's mentioned by his close friend, Jeffrey Epstein, a month after it happened when he wrote to Jess Staley, for all intends, and that's a misspelling.
[01:21:39]  For all intends and purposes, Peter Mandelson is now deputy prime minister.
[01:21:44]  Ouch.
[01:21:45]  Yes.
[01:21:46]  So Epstein actually wrote this email to Jess Staley while he was serving out his sentence in Florida, right, for the child sex crimes there.
[01:21:53]  And his sentence, of course, being a very light one, you know, he got days off.
[01:21:57]  And I think by the way, Jess Staley, who was his banker at Chase.
[01:22:02]  Yes, which we cover like pretty extensively in the episodes.
[01:22:06]  Yeah, no, no, I know.
[01:22:07]  It's good to say, but we cover that in the episodes we did on the Virgin Islands case against Epstein.
[01:22:14]  So, you know, he apparently stayed at Epstein's townhouse in New York, again, while Epstein was in jail in Florida for sexual crimes relating to children.
[01:22:25]  This is actually something that he wrote to Jess Staley.
[01:22:29]  Do you want to read this?
[01:22:30]  Peter will be staying at 71st Street over weekend.
[01:22:33]  Do you want to organize either you or you and Jamie quietly?
[01:22:38]  Up to you.
[01:22:40]  This was in reference to Jamie Dimon.
[01:22:42]  So Epstein is trying to set up a meeting between Jess Staley, Jamie Dimon, and Peter Mandelson from jail at his townhouse.
[01:22:53]  But apparently, Jamie Dimon was out of town.
[01:22:56]  So Mandelson seems to be using Epstein as sort of a conduit to Epstein's contacts at JPMorgan.
[01:23:05]  He wrote an email saying and attaching an event he was speaking at.
[01:23:09]  This is the thing I'm speaking at in Shanghai.
[01:23:11]  If you can open the attachments, you will see the entire Chinese banking fraternity is attending.
[01:23:16]  Isn't it something that JPM should be represented at if they want to spread their wings in China?
[01:23:22]  So it turns out the guys have been friends for years.
[01:23:25]  And there's been photographs that have kind of like come out in dribs and drabs over the years.
[01:23:29]  They've been photographed together in 2005, shopping in the Virgin Islands.
[01:23:33]  A couple years later, there's a photograph of them in Paris at Epstein's apartment there.
[01:23:39]  But the first-length appearance actually is in the pages of New York magazine, circa a 2002 party report.
[01:23:47]  Where?
[01:23:48]  Eastside Townhouse.
[01:23:50]  Table seats, 30.
[01:23:51]  Guest list, Mort Zuckerman, Google co-founder Sergey Brin, David Blaine, Donald Trump, Leslie Wexner of the Limited, disgraced British cabinet member, Peter Mandelson, Bill Clinton aide, Doug Band, menu, private chef.
[01:24:08]  Though last month, Rocco Despirado cooked dinner after Epstein paid $50,000 for his services at a Hamptons charity.
[01:24:17]  Make it my place.
[01:24:19]  Epstein hates restaurants, so he often entertains at home.
[01:24:23]  Yeah, that's why he entertains at home.
[01:24:25]  The dialogues are so engaging that serving even the most extraordinary food sometimes seems inappropriate, like eating pizza at the ballet, he says.
[01:24:35]  I mean, what a guest list, dude.
[01:24:38]  Sergey Brin, David Blaine, Trump, Les Wexner, Peter Mandelson.
[01:24:43]  All the stars are here.
[01:24:45]  Mort Zuckerman.
[01:24:46]  Doug Band.
[01:24:47]  I mean, my God.
[01:24:48]  And of course, I imagine the other seats are filled out by 17-year-old girls.
[01:24:55]  It is just like, I mean, this was in 2002.
[01:24:57]  So Epstein already was clearly friends with him in some capacity before inviting him to this dinner.
[01:25:03]  It's pretty extraordinary.

=== Peter Mandelson's Controversies (04:32) ===

[01:25:04]  Mandelson has resolutely refused to comment on this.
[01:25:08]  In fact, when the FT, who's reported really, they do not like Peter Mandelson, they did this like big piece on him when he got named ambassador to the U.S.
[01:25:20]  And he's like, he literally tells him, he's like, fuck off.
[01:25:22]  This is an obsession with you guys.
[01:25:24]  Like, I don't want to talk about this shit.
[01:25:26]  And he tells him to fuck off, which is, I think he's, it raises his hackles a little bit when people mention it.
[01:25:33]  In general, though, he refuses to comment on any of it.
[01:25:37]  He's been too busy actually working with Peter Thiel to bring Palantir to the NHS.
[01:25:43]  So he has this Palantir.
[01:25:48]  God, everything is so shitty.
[01:25:50]  It sucks so bad.
[01:25:51]  Our UK friends, don't let Palantir carve up the NHS.
[01:25:57]  What else are they going to do?
[01:25:57]  I mean, they're already doing it.
[01:25:59]  Everyone else has already had their piece.
[01:26:01]  Why not let Palantir in the place?
[01:26:03]  I mean, it's this big new NHS project that was, it's like a data contract.
[01:26:10]  Palantir bid on it.
[01:26:12]  They won.
[01:26:13]  They had hired Peter Mandelson to help that happen.
[01:26:17]  I mean, I think they got like a 400 million pound contract for doing it.
[01:26:21]  The UK budget is incredible.
[01:26:23]  I know.
[01:26:23]  Massive sections on privacy are redacted from the contract.
[01:26:27]  You know, this is all done under the aegis of Peter Mandelson.
[01:26:33]  It's funny because at the same time, Peter Thiel is at Oxford, you know, giving this speech.
[01:26:37]  And he's like, NHS is making Britain sick.
[01:26:40]  He gives this anti-NHS like diatribe within his speech.
[01:26:44]  And meanwhile, Labor Party grandee Peter Mandelson is like, we need this guy in the NHS pretty much immediately.
[01:26:51]  So he says he stepped back from his consulting firm.
[01:26:54]  He's still part owner and getting money from the firm, who coincidentally opened up an office in DC once Peter Mandelson was named ambassador.
[01:27:08]  So yeah, December 2020.
[01:27:10]  There are just fucking criminals everywhere.
[01:27:12]  Oh, that's what's so crazy to me.
[01:27:14]  It's like, all these people are just like, they're criminal in ways that it's just, is there nobody in charge here?
[01:27:21]  No, there's no rule of law.
[01:27:23]  Like, I'm sorry, this person should not be here.
[01:27:25]  I already said this on the podcast.
[01:27:27]  True and on.
[01:27:28]  We are a law and order podcast.
[01:27:30]  This is outrageous to me that this person is like not only back in government, he's in one of the, in fact, for Britain, probably the most important post in government.
[01:27:41]  We believe in law and order, and we need to bring law and order to this country because things are out of control, and all of these people need to be in jail.
[01:27:49]  Absolutely, they do.
[01:27:51]  Instead of being in jail, though, Sir Kier Starmer.
[01:27:54]  He's serving the Mini Tacos.
[01:27:55]  He's serving the Mini Tacos.
[01:27:56]  He's like, you know what?
[01:27:58]  Trump won the election.
[01:27:59]  December 2024.
[01:28:01]  We're sending in our goat, Peter Mandelson.
[01:28:05]  He's like, he brings unrivaled experience to the role.
[01:28:09]  Unrivaled experience of having dinner with Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein's townhouse, I guess.
[01:28:15]  It's funny because Mandelson had previously said, and this is the classic, like, oh, Trump is a nationalist.
[01:28:21]  He's a brute.
[01:28:22]  I don't like him.
[01:28:24]  Well, that was the teal line.
[01:28:26]  Exactly.
[01:28:26]  That all the teal guys were saying.
[01:28:28]  Jamie Dance.
[01:28:29]  Until they weren't.
[01:28:30]  Yeah.
[01:28:31]  He goes on Fox once he gets the ambassadorship and he says, I consider my remarks about President Trump as ill-judged and wrong.
[01:28:38]  I think times and attitudes towards the president have changed since then.
[01:28:42]  I think people have been impressed, not just by the extraordinary second mandate that he has received from the American people, but the dynamism and energy with which he has approached not just the campaign, but government as well.
[01:28:56]  And he threw this great big party for all these right-wing media personalities just last week.
[01:29:13]  So it was at a party held by Lord Peter Mandelson, close friend, close, close friend of Jeffrey Epstein, that this photograph of Lady Victoria Hervey, who is the probably most prominent Free Ghislaine, well, second most prominent free ghane influencer there is, and Vicki Ward was taken.

=== Lady Victoria's Party Guests (14:08) ===

[01:29:37]  But the person who took the photo is somebody that we have had a little bit of experience with.
[01:29:45]  So it's funny because we were just like going back through the archives and listening to when we had this experience.
[01:29:53]  Can we, wait, can we play this right now?
[01:29:56]  Q people at first in the morning.
[01:29:59]  And then there's some followers, I believe, of a mommy blogger who is Instagram this.
[01:30:05]  Yes, so there is an Instagram influencer that is from Los Angeles who's here for the trial.
[01:30:11]  And I don't mean like Epstein Q influencer.
[01:30:14]  I mean like an Instagram like mommy blogger, influencer, lifestyle person.
[01:30:20]  She has like 480,000 Instagram followers.
[01:30:24]  Uh-huh.
[01:30:25]  And 480,000 plus one, because I accidentally followed her from the party Instagram account instead of my own one.
[01:30:30]  Yeah.
[01:30:32]  Can you unfollow?
[01:30:33]  I did.
[01:30:33]  Okay.
[01:30:34]  I sent her a couple winks.
[01:30:37]  Anyway, she like, I guess she Instagrammed that she was coming to the trial and has been posting like insane, always stories too.
[01:30:48]  You know how those, you know those types that post like a thousand stories?
[01:30:53]  I found out that it's called caterpillaring.
[01:30:56]  What?
[01:30:57]  Yeah, because it's got all the dots at the top.
[01:30:59]  They call it caterpillaring.
[01:31:00]  Huh.
[01:31:01]  Isn't that weird?
[01:31:02]  Yeah.
[01:31:03]  So that's from our coverage of the Ghylaine Maxwell trial.
[01:31:06]  Which, like, that was fun.
[01:31:09]  Years gone by.
[01:31:11]  Years gone by.
[01:31:12]  I didn't know who this lady was.
[01:31:14]  Memories.
[01:31:17]  You love that.
[01:31:18]  Like the corner.
[01:31:18]  Like the corners of my mind.
[01:31:21]  Misty watercolored memories.
[01:31:23]  Now, ladies and gentlemen.
[01:31:24]  Of the way we work.
[01:31:26]  If you've looked.
[01:31:27]  Add it be.
[01:31:30]  At our iTunes, whatever it is, the Apple podcast.
[01:31:36]  Any publicly available?
[01:31:37]  No, just on Apple.
[01:31:38]  On Apple.
[01:31:39]  Yes.
[01:31:40]  They didn't hit the Spotify or SoundCloud, probably because nobody knows how to even get to the things.
[01:31:47]  They tanked our iTunes reviews.
[01:31:50]  They, meaning followers of this woman, we got bombed by real people, not bots.
[01:31:57]  It was real people.
[01:31:59]  And they accused me of misogyny.
[01:32:02]  I could not believe it.
[01:32:03]  I know.
[01:32:04]  I'm like, look, look at the non-convicted criminal over there if you want to look at misogyny.
[01:32:08]  I'm not misogynistic.
[01:32:09]  No, or convicted.
[01:32:10]  Or convicted.
[01:32:11]  Well, I have convictions.
[01:32:13]  And you know what?
[01:32:15]  None of them are?
[01:32:15]  Hating women.
[01:32:16]  Thank you.
[01:32:19]  All of the reviews are like, how can you call this person like, oh, so you hate mommy bloggers?
[01:32:26]  What?
[01:32:26]  Women can't work and live and be moms?
[01:32:31]  It's like, that was your takeaway from what I was doing.
[01:32:33]  Degrading to women.
[01:32:34]  Listen, if you'd like to support people who publicly drag successful women and mothers for the incredible work they do in producing unfiltered fact-based information, this is January 1st, New Year's Day, 2022.
[01:32:47]  Jesus.
[01:32:47]  Waking up, New Year's Day.
[01:32:49]  I mean, we got tons of comments about this.
[01:32:51]  Justice for Jess.
[01:32:52]  Unless, of course, you're the kind of people who think degrading women is acceptable.
[01:32:55]  You have zero idea the sacrifice that House and Habit offered to her platform by flying across the country multiple times.
[01:33:04]  Flying across the country multiple times to cover a story that fiercely lacked attention from the media.
[01:33:09]  What the fuck?
[01:33:10]  We were covering the story at the time.
[01:33:12]  You not only need an apology, you additionally need to revisit why you're in this space if your goal is to rip others down to make it happen.
[01:33:18]  First of all, I'm not hitting her space.
[01:33:19]  Yeah, we're not in that space.
[01:33:20]  We're not hitting her space.
[01:33:22]  I am not trying to be in that space.
[01:33:23]  I don't know what that space is, but we were never a part of that space.
[01:33:26]  So this is an anti-pedophile pod, but also anti-working mother pod.
[01:33:30]  That's weird.
[01:33:30]  House and Habit works hard and mothers hard.
[01:33:33]  I don't think that we should be comparing working mothers to pedophiles, but your comments are different.
[01:33:38]  Your comments were disgusting about House and Habit.
[01:33:40]  I hope you've read these comments and make a public apology without our expertise as a journalist.
[01:33:45]  Hardly any of us would have been updated daily.
[01:33:47]  The horrible things you said about the laughing and the laughing on your show about House and Habit is the only reason I'm even here or know you exist.
[01:33:53]  Apologize and do better.
[01:33:56]  Okay, so I just want to say that I remember reading those reviews and I didn't like listen to what we said.
[01:34:02]  I'm like, oh shit, maybe I was like kind of mean.
[01:34:04]  Maybe I said, maybe I was like, Lisby and me, me.
[01:34:07]  But then we just listened to it again now and I'm like, I didn't even say anything.
[01:34:10]  I didn't know who this person was.
[01:34:12]  All I saw first, I'm going to, hey, I'll tell it like it is.
[01:34:18]  All I saw were a bunch of girls who came to meet to like that we had never seen before.
[01:34:27]  And they were girls that I recognized as people who shop on Instagram.
[01:34:33]  They were very trendy.
[01:34:34]  They had blowouts.
[01:34:36]  They were pretty.
[01:34:36]  And I was like, why are all these people at the Ghillaine Maxwell trial?
[01:34:40]  We've been here every day.
[01:34:41]  I'm tired as hell.
[01:34:42]  It's so early.
[01:34:43]  Like, why are these people here?
[01:34:45]  You know, you notice everybody.
[01:34:46]  Yeah.
[01:34:47]  And someone at the trial let me know that they were here to see, in her words, a mommy blogger.
[01:34:56]  Now, I never saw, I'm going to just say, at this point, I had never seen House in Habit.
[01:35:02]  I didn't even know that that person was there covering it.
[01:35:06]  I had never even heard of the Instagram because they were in the courthouse.
[01:35:10]  They were in the courtroom because they were paying Line Sitter.
[01:35:13]  But we weren't doing that.
[01:35:14]  We were in the, you know, if you listen to the show, we were in the overflow room because we got up late.
[01:35:20]  Yeah, and I'm not paying a fucking line sitter.
[01:35:22]  No.
[01:35:22]  Second jewel in the past.
[01:35:23]  I had never even interacted with this person by this point.
[01:35:26]  Okay.
[01:35:27]  No.
[01:35:28]  The first time I looked at the Instagram was that day, like after she told, first, we didn't even have our phones in the courthouse.
[01:35:36]  So it was like, go outside for lunch after I've been told this story.
[01:35:39]  And I'm looking at the Instagram and I'm like, damn, she's got like major amount of followers.
[01:35:43]  This is crazy.
[01:35:44]  And look how many like stories she has.
[01:35:47]  Oh, that's why they call it caterpillaring because of how it looks.
[01:35:51]  It's a caterpillar.
[01:35:52]  I didn't know.
[01:35:52]  And then suddenly I'm like spewing hate against mothers of all people who I love and I have one.
[01:35:59]  In fact, myself.
[01:36:00]  Liz is mother.
[01:36:01]  Mother.
[01:36:02]  Thank you.
[01:36:03]  But many have said.
[01:36:04]  For me, I didn't understand.
[01:36:06]  Is mommy blogger a slur?
[01:36:08]  I'm sorry.
[01:36:09]  Did I say the M word?
[01:36:11]  I didn't know this.
[01:36:12]  I thought this was a job people had.
[01:36:14]  You're a mommy blogger.
[01:36:15]  You blog about it.
[01:36:16]  My problem with mommy bloggers, maybe the misogyny is coming from you.
[01:36:20]  Exactly.
[01:36:22]  And that's, and that's tea.
[01:36:24]  And that's tea.
[01:36:26]  So, you know, so visiting, I'm like, who is this woman?
[01:36:31]  I go on Wikipedia.
[01:36:32]  And you know what it says?
[01:36:34]  Jessica Reed Krause is an American writer, Instagram influencer, and former mommy blogger who writes the newsletter House in Habit.
[01:36:44]  So wait, I thought it was in habit.
[01:36:47]  Like, like, I'm in my habit.
[01:36:49]  You thought it was three words.
[01:36:50]  I thought it was three words.
[01:36:52]  Because it doesn't make sense.
[01:36:53]  Really, either way doesn't make sense.
[01:36:54]  None of it makes sense, but house and hat, like and how I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
[01:37:00]  I read, I read, I read a bunch of it.
[01:37:02]  I read a bunch of, I mean, when that happened, I was like, fuck, we're gonna, like, we're gonna get destroyed because, like, this, this woman put us on, well, we'll get to that.
[01:37:10]  What's talking about?
[01:37:11]  She put us on the fucking blast, and we did not put, we didn't say a name at all.
[01:37:16]  She is from, if you can imagine, Corona, California.
[01:37:20]  I'm not saying anything.
[01:37:21]  She grew popular with an Instagram account documenting her home building, her children.
[01:37:27]  Her DIY.
[01:37:28]  She's DIYing her house.
[01:37:30]  Vanlifing literally the most.
[01:37:33]  Wait, she van lifed?
[01:37:34]  No, they have a van.
[01:37:35]  Their van's license plate, by the way, is RFK666.
[01:37:40]  No, it is not.
[01:37:41]  Them's the facts.
[01:37:43]  Them's the facts.
[01:37:44]  Why would you have the devil number in there?
[01:37:46]  Oh, she has a long explanation for that on her.
[01:37:49]  What about all this satanic stuff?
[01:37:51]  It's actually different than that.
[01:37:54]  She saw a, when she was in town for the, I think it was the coronation in London, she saw a license plate that said RFK 666, and she took that as a sign, much like the owl that visited her.
[01:38:05]  No, come on, that's the classic sign.
[01:38:08]  I mean, that's a sign that this person is the devil.
[01:38:10]  Yeah.
[01:38:10]  Yeah.
[01:38:10]  But she, I mean, it's, listen, I think a lot of this stuff is written by Chargie PT, so I'm not really sure.
[01:38:17]  Why would you see a license?
[01:38:18]  Can you, is there even a way to see a British license plate that says RFK?
[01:38:22]  There's a picture.
[01:38:22]  I mean, she has a lot of, I don't know.
[01:38:24]  I don't know.
[01:38:24]  This is the explanation she gave on her sub stack.
[01:38:26]  That's weird.
[01:38:26]  But she, I mean, this is all very stereotypical mommy blogger stuff.
[01:38:30]  I mean, she sold TPs on Etsy and shit.
[01:38:33]  Like, what is more?
[01:38:35]  Yeah.
[01:38:35]  I mean, it was very boho at the time.
[01:38:37]  Very boho at the time.
[01:38:39]  Sure.
[01:38:40]  You know, she, this is from a Wall Street Journal profile on her.
[01:38:45]  And Liz, I think you should read this.
[01:38:47]  All of a sudden, you're being seen by strangers all over the world, she says.
[01:38:51]  She struck deals with lifestyle brands to promote their betting and home goods to her Instagram followers.
[01:38:56]  In 2017, she flew to D.C. to take part in the women's march protesting Donald Trump's inauguration.
[01:39:02]  Classic arc.
[01:39:04]  I added that part.
[01:39:05]  When the pandemic hit, Krauss says she found herself at odds with her mother over the COVID-19 vaccine.
[01:39:14]  She thought I was sort of a traitor because I was raised to be very liberal and she thought I was turning on the party, says Krauss.
[01:39:21]  We always agreed on politics and we were equally outraged by Trump.
[01:39:24]  Her mother says their disagreement started much earlier.
[01:39:27]  They remain estranged.
[01:39:30]  So a little differing stories there.
[01:39:33]  I mean, this story here is one that I think has played out in many places.
[01:39:40]  Infinite times.
[01:39:42]  Yeah.
[01:39:42]  In fact, I know many people personally.
[01:39:46]  This is a Southern California mother that was driven insane by the COVID-19 scam demic.
[01:39:57]  Plandemic.
[01:39:58]  Just get the facts.
[01:40:00]  I mean, she started going on about facts passes.
[01:40:04]  She was like, you know, there's more.
[01:40:05]  I mean, it was just, it was literally, you know, I don't even have to explain what it is because you already know what it is.
[01:40:12]  Did you watch Plandemic?
[01:40:13]  No, I didn't watch Plandemic.
[01:40:14]  No, no, I didn't.
[01:40:16]  How was it?
[01:40:18]  Delightful.
[01:40:19]  How many?
[01:40:20]  Delightful?
[01:40:20]  Wait, Plandemic.
[01:40:21]  I think I watched Plandemic.
[01:40:23]  I watched one of them.
[01:40:24]  Did you think it was facts?
[01:40:26]  I don't think I got the facts, but I definitely left with questions.
[01:40:30]  Okay, interesting.
[01:40:31]  You know, so we met her, actually, at the Ghillain trial.
[01:40:36]  After we recorded that.
[01:40:38]  I want to be clear because I said that I hadn't met her.
[01:40:40]  Before she heard it.
[01:40:41]  Was it?
[01:40:42]  Yeah.
[01:40:42]  She heard it.
[01:40:43]  You did, not me.
[01:40:45]  What?
[01:40:46]  I did what?
[01:40:47]  That you met her.
[01:40:48]  No, you.
[01:40:49]  Maybe you didn't come.
[01:40:50]  I didn't actually.
[01:40:51]  No.
[01:40:52]  The first time I met her was the final after the verdict when we went to Odeon.
[01:40:59]  No, I think that's when I met her too.
[01:41:00]  No, maybe I didn't.
[01:41:01]  You already did because you were the one like, she's doing this whole thing.
[01:41:04]  I was like, I don't even know who that person is.
[01:41:05]  I didn't know who she was either, but she was table at the Odeon.
[01:41:08]  I didn't really know her whole deal at all.
[01:41:10]  Like, I wasn't following her coverage on Instagram.
[01:41:12]  I didn't follow her.
[01:41:14]  At that part, but at that dinner party, by the way, it was like every journalist ever.
[01:41:17]  Yeah, it wasn't.
[01:41:18]  We didn't just go.
[01:41:19]  We just sat with Marlon.
[01:41:20]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:41:21]  Oh, yeah.
[01:41:22]  Sat with Marlon.
[01:41:25]  That's so funny.
[01:41:25]  What an incredible matchup that was.
[01:41:29]  But this is from a, I can't remember actually what I took this from, but this is from some profile of her talking about her decision to actually cover the trial.
[01:41:37]  Because prior to that, she had mostly covered kind of celebrity gossip sort of stuff.
[01:41:41]  Sure.
[01:41:42]  Kraus says that intuition, I love that for her.
[01:41:46]  Intuition guides all of her business decisions.
[01:41:49]  In 2021, after a trip to New York to observe the start of the Ghillaine Maxwell sex trafficking trial, she says she had a series of visitations from an owl, a bird symbolic of wisdom and clarity.
[01:42:03]  That led her to trust her gut and return to the city to cover the trial info.
[01:42:06]  Is that what the owl symbolizes when you see a vision of an owl?
[01:42:11]  She wrote a long thing in her.
[01:42:13]  Did it fly at night?
[01:42:15]  It's a good question.
[01:42:19]  I read a lot of her sub stack yesterday.
[01:42:23]  Oh, yeah.
[01:42:23]  I was poking around, but then I got in lots of tangents looking at all of my friends' Instagrams that follow her.
[01:42:30]  Oh, God.
[01:42:31]  I mean, I just, yeah, I know.
[01:42:32]  I've got, I've got a couple dozen friends that follow her.
[01:42:36]  She's got like a million something followers.
[01:42:38]  Yeah, a million and a half.
[01:42:39]  Anyway.
[01:42:39]  But she talks a lot about the owl and symbolism.
[01:42:43]  Here's the deal with symbols.
[01:42:45]  And I say this as somebody who has been in analysis for a very long time.
[01:42:48]  If you want, you can kind of make anything mean anything.
[01:42:51]  That's the facts.
[01:42:53]  Yeah, I mean, I also, I just don't think that's what an owl means.
[01:42:57]  But so I always wanted to, so our experience with her was we went to this thing at the Odeon, which is like a restaurant.
[01:43:09]  It's a restaurant you take girls to in New York.
[01:43:12]  Am I wrong?
[01:43:13]  I think you just take anyone there.
[01:43:14]  Well, yeah.
[01:43:15]  It's a classic.
[01:43:16]  You're not taking a guy to a restaurant.
[01:43:17]  Well, okay.
[01:43:18]  That's fair enough.
[01:43:19]  But a restaurant you go.
[01:43:20]  Girls love it.
[01:43:21]  I will say that girls love it.
[01:43:22]  I think everyone loves it.
[01:43:24]  You see, the boys aren't like, let's go to the Odeon, dude.
[01:43:27]  I think some are.
[01:43:28]  Some are.
[01:43:29]  Really?
[01:43:29]  Menslare guys.
[01:43:31]  Wow.
[01:43:31]  We're just media people.
[01:43:32]  It's like a media restaurant.
[01:43:34]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:43:34]  That's like, but it's just easy.
[01:43:37]  It's easy.
[01:43:37]  It's easy.
[01:43:38]  It's easy and comfortable.
[01:43:39]  It's fine.
[01:43:40]  Yeah, it's fine.
[01:43:41]  It's classic.
[01:43:43]  We go there.
[01:43:43]  We don't really talk to her at all.

=== Why Smell Like Robin Williams (05:26) ===

[01:43:45]  Like, we don't actually really have any interaction with her.
[01:43:47]  Like, there's a big table, kind of everyone's sitting at it.
[01:43:49]  And we mostly just, yeah, we mostly talk to Marlin and like a couple other people.
[01:43:53]  And that's basically it.
[01:43:54]  Yeah.
[01:43:56]  Then someone sends her an excerpt from our podcast.
[01:44:01]  And we couldn't find, there's like all of her stories are like archived on this other Instagram account.
[01:44:07]  We couldn't find the one where she talks about us.
[01:44:09]  But like, I will say, people got pissed.
[01:44:13]  I mean, we read a little bit about the reviews that we were left, but it was like people were fucking pissed.
[01:44:19]  And it was the first time since you were doing this podcast.
[01:44:21]  And I was like, oh, damn, I wonder if like they're going to get all our shit shut down.
[01:44:25]  Like Mash Apporis or something like that.
[01:44:28]  Yeah, I feel like we were like, whoa, what is this?
[01:44:31]  Yeah, we were like also so confused.
[01:44:33]  We're like, why is this like.
[01:44:35]  But I was like, why is this mommy vlogger mad at me?
[01:44:37]  I didn't say anything.
[01:44:38]  Yeah, we didn't really, I guess we didn't really think that what we said was insulting.
[01:44:42]  But then she showed up again during the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial.
[01:44:49]  She was a major player in the Depp Heard.
[01:44:53]  I guess you could say Depp's extra-legal courtroom strategy.
[01:44:59]  I mean, she says that there was no coordination or little coordination.
[01:45:03]  But she was like partying with him.
[01:45:04]  He was partying with Depp.
[01:45:05]  They spoke at length on the phone I think even before the trial started or maybe at the beginning of the trial where he – What do you think he said?
[01:45:12]  I think he's like, you beautiful.
[01:45:15]  Don't do the voice.
[01:45:23]  Your Instagram.
[01:45:24]  Wait, wait, I got to get more into character.
[01:45:27]  Rum.
[01:45:30]  Rum.
[01:45:31]  How does he do it?
[01:45:32]  Rum.
[01:45:34]  Rum.
[01:45:36]  Instagram.
[01:45:38]  You need like more red wine all over you.
[01:45:41]  Yes.
[01:45:42]  And much fatter.
[01:45:43]  You got to wear more rings.
[01:45:45]  More rings.
[01:45:45]  Clink rings.
[01:45:46]  More hilarious.
[01:45:48]  What a filthy human being.
[01:45:51]  He does look dirty.
[01:45:51]  He looks like his nails are dirty.
[01:45:53]  Like, Under his nails are dirty.
[01:45:55]  How many pounds of jewelry do you think he's wearing every day?
[01:45:58]  You were not Keith Richards, bro.
[01:46:00]  I'm sorry.
[01:46:01]  Keith Richards is cool because he plays guitar.
[01:46:03]  But you know what?
[01:46:04]  Even as a huge Stones fan, I'll say this.
[01:46:06]  Keith Richards dresses corny as fuck.
[01:46:08]  He's not that cool.
[01:46:09]  And Mick is, we love Mick.
[01:46:11]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:46:11]  We love Mick.
[01:46:12]  Keith.
[01:46:13]  Ugh.
[01:46:14]  Who cares?
[01:46:14]  And I read the biography, which I did find entertaining.
[01:46:17]  But still, it's, you know, and you want to be a sub-Keith.
[01:46:21]  That's what's wrong with Johnny Depp.
[01:46:22]  He's like, do I want to be Keith Richards?
[01:46:24]  Maybe I'll be Nez Thompson.
[01:46:28]  Grow up.
[01:46:29]  You know what you should be?
[01:46:30]  Maybe a better dad.
[01:46:32]  He just finds the wigs and acts like the wigs.
[01:46:34]  He's a wigger.
[01:46:35]  So if you.
[01:46:40]  I didn't mean to say that.
[01:46:41]  No, but I just mean through his career.
[01:46:43]  It's like every wig he's put on, he's then adopted the personality of the wig, including in the acting in the movie, and then it just continued on.
[01:46:50]  That's what I don't like.
[01:46:51]  It's like the reverse method acting.
[01:46:53]  You know what I mean?
[01:46:54]  Like the movie's over.
[01:46:55]  You're not in the Pirates of the Caribbean.
[01:46:57]  They wrote you out because of the allegations.
[01:47:00]  And now you're still, you're still Captain.
[01:47:03]  Bring, bring me, bring me that, bring me that colonopin.
[01:47:09]  You know?
[01:47:10]  Does he still act?
[01:47:12]  Yeah, I'm sure.
[01:47:13]  Yeah, he does.
[01:47:14]  You know, he's in the, there's that fucking boots or some shit.
[01:47:18]  No, there's a fucking animated movies only.
[01:47:20]  Yeah.
[01:47:21]  Because they love his voice.
[01:47:22]  They love his voice.
[01:47:23]  You can't.
[01:47:24]  Amazing.
[01:47:25]  You can't.
[01:47:25]  No, but he was, it was a perfume for, what is it called?
[01:47:28]  Cologne ad.
[01:47:30]  What's perfume for men called?
[01:47:31]  He was in a cologne ad that I feel like was up for five years.
[01:47:34]  And it's him playing guitar.
[01:47:36]  Hollywood vampires.
[01:47:38]  And I say this is a Hollywood vampire super fan.
[01:47:42]  I love the Hollywood vampires.
[01:47:43]  I don't want anyone smelling like that.
[01:47:48]  He comes over.
[01:47:49]  If you want to smell like Johnny Depp, I'd be like, no, thank you.
[01:47:52]  No one should be allowed to smell like that.
[01:47:55]  Ladies, if you go, because you know what I do, obviously, well known, true and on rule, you check the medicine cabinets, you pillage, you take what you need.
[01:48:04]  Ladies, if you go to his house before you sleep with him, oh, I have to pee before we have sex.
[01:48:10]  Can't fool me.
[01:48:11]  You do that after.
[01:48:12]  But you go to his fucking little, you go to his little boudoir or his, you know, freshening it up room, and you're looking through his shit, being like, is he on looking for Blue Chew?
[01:48:21]  Looking for, you know, whatever, Lexa Pro, any of that kind of shit.
[01:48:25]  We're looking maybe for have a little fun, little Ataban.
[01:48:29]  And you find the Johnny Depp perfume.
[01:48:31]  Cologne.
[01:48:32]  Whatever it is.
[01:48:35]  911.
[01:48:36]  I am being held hostage.
[01:48:37]  Shoot on site.
[01:48:40]  It's crazy.
[01:48:41]  Disgusting.
[01:48:42]  To smell like him.
[01:48:43]  The smell smelled like dip.
[01:48:45]  Stench of stench.
[01:48:46]  Johnny Stench.
[01:48:48]  It's like the worst thing I could imagine.
[01:48:51]  Yeah, I know.
[01:48:53]  And you say that, and Liz says this is someone who wears the Robin Williams cologne.
[01:48:57]  Oh, that's sad.
[01:48:59]  No.
[01:48:59]  I would like to smell like Robin Williams.
[01:49:01]  The Robbie Williams cologne.
[01:49:02]  No, that's different.
[01:49:03]  Robin Williams would be like joy and laughter.
[01:49:07]  Yeah.
[01:49:08]  So sad.
[01:49:08]  Yeah.
[01:49:09]  Ronnie Williams.

=== Liz And The RFK Jr. Side (15:21) ===

[01:49:11]  We don't need, you know, we don't get no free press for Robbie Williams.
[01:49:15]  So.
[01:49:16]  The monkey mans?
[01:49:17]  We're not.
[01:49:17]  No, I'm not.
[01:49:18]  I'm not tolerating that.
[01:49:19]  That's a Mandela effect shit.
[01:49:21]  But so she's like in the Depp trial being like.
[01:49:25]  I wonder what you've been talking about.
[01:49:27]  We're talking about this mommy blogger who is, by the way, going to hear this and also ruin our careers.
[01:49:30]  But we're not fucking freed anymore.
[01:49:33]  We're not afraid anymore.
[01:49:34]  Do you hear me?
[01:49:35]  I'm not afraid anymore.
[01:49:37]  I don't want her to look at it.
[01:49:39]  I know, but she's going to do it.
[01:49:41]  But it's too far now.
[01:49:43]  We're too far through the looking glass of this bullshit.
[01:49:46]  So also, so she's like hugely on the on the Johnny Depp side posting all this shit.
[01:49:52]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:49:53]  Basically working out the media strategy for him while he's, you know, he's in, he's in court.
[01:49:57]  I want to mention something that she does around this point too, because I think this is very important.
[01:50:01]  So I, I looked at some of her substat coverage of covering the Ghelane trial.
[01:50:07]  And I feel like one of her things is so obvious from start to finish here is like she kind of searches for like a nuance or like niche to like get into whenever she talks about the subject, which usually means you're like, okay, well, this guy's on trial.
[01:50:22]  Everyone's against him.
[01:50:24]  Maybe I'm on his side.
[01:50:25]  And she did the same thing with Ghelane, even going so far as printing up and wearing a t-shirt that says free Ghelane.
[01:50:33]  Yeah, I remember when that happened and I was like, what?
[01:50:37]  I didn't understand.
[01:50:38]  She was at the trial, but then it was like, once it was over, she decided, actually, this is a stitch-up.
[01:50:45]  Well, it was weird because during the trial, she.
[01:50:48]  Because she was sitting there next to, when we were at Odeon, she's sitting there next to Julie Kay Brown.
[01:50:52]  Yes.
[01:50:52]  And like, kind of, I mean, you know, they were talking a lot.
[01:50:56]  No, no, she was.
[01:50:57]  She was, she was hobnobbing.
[01:50:58]  Yes.
[01:50:59]  She was trying to hobnob with all these journalists.
[01:51:01]  Yeah.
[01:51:02]  And, and by the way, no one would really hobnob with us for most of the trial.
[01:51:07]  No, nobody talked to us at all.
[01:51:09]  Pariahs.
[01:51:10]  No, Julie talked to us.
[01:51:12]  Yes.
[01:51:12]  Julie and Johnny.
[01:51:13]  I think she was charmed by you.
[01:51:15]  Well, right.
[01:51:16]  But all the other ones definitely, I mean, the Sky News people hated us.
[01:51:20]  Yeah, because I was like, maybe a dingo.
[01:51:23]  And they're like, we're British.
[01:51:24]  Why are you doing that?
[01:51:25]  Same thing.
[01:51:26]  You think the Commonwealth.
[01:51:28]  And then, no, everyone was just like, but I do think by the end, they liked us.
[01:51:33]  Yeah.
[01:51:33]  It was like really when we started that we were kind of like little, you know, little freaks.
[01:51:38]  But whatever.
[01:51:40]  So but the free ghelane shirt, I was like, what the fuck is this?
[01:51:43]  Dude, I'm like, how through the looking glass is your funky ass?
[01:51:46]  And I was like, there's no way her audience will follow her through this.
[01:51:49]  Could you imagine she went on listening?
[01:51:51]  I'm sure you could.
[01:51:52]  But like, there's no way her audience will follow her through this.
[01:51:55]  But they're like, this is, I think I just underestimated this type of person, like how many people will glom onto this, but this is just the world we live in.
[01:52:04]  It's an influencer.
[01:52:05]  It's an influencer.
[01:52:06]  It's the world we live in.
[01:52:08]  She, I just want to be like, we have to maintain that in mind through all of this.
[01:52:13]  It's like, at the end of the trial, she was like, actually, Ghelane is taking a fall for these powerful, unnamed men.
[01:52:19]  And it became like a weird sort of pseudo-feminist issue for her.
[01:52:23]  But it's like, it's nonsense.
[01:52:24]  I mean, we're talking about somebody who's like staking out a market position for themselves.
[01:52:28]  This isn't like a real position.
[01:52:30]  And the Free Ghelane shirt, I'm like, there's just like, I'm sorry, like, this is just, what are you fucking?
[01:52:36]  What are we doing here?
[01:52:37]  It's giving Kanye a bit.
[01:52:39]  It's very Kanye.
[01:52:40]  Where I'm like, all right.
[01:52:41]  All right.
[01:52:42]  It was a Free Ghelane t-shirt.
[01:52:43]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:52:44]  And you know what?
[01:52:44]  I bought both.
[01:52:45]  Well, you bought that one Kanye shirt.
[01:52:49]  You're wearing.
[01:52:49]  Okay.
[01:52:50]  Sign.
[01:52:50]  I won't describe what you're wearing.
[01:52:52]  Women always do that to me.
[01:52:54]  But so she gets more and more popular for all this stuff because I think this is just how people are like consuming news now is through Instagram stories, maybe?
[01:53:04]  No, but it's also, but also through Substack.
[01:53:06]  I mean, she was like early on there and that platform was already growing.
[01:53:11]  And so she was growing alongside with it.
[01:53:13]  Yes.
[01:53:13]  And she was already big on Instagram.
[01:53:15]  And, you know, she had been doing this for a long time.
[01:53:17]  She's an influencer.
[01:53:18]  She knows she was doing.
[01:53:20]  But she comes across another man with some controversies who she's like, you know what?
[01:53:25]  This guy's not under trial for anything.
[01:53:27]  You know, I'm just going to say, same voice.
[01:53:32]  Can you imagine RFK Jr. be like, imagine being in a room with RFK Jr. and Johnny Depp talking to each other.
[01:53:39]  I really spared your work.
[01:53:41]  I really sped your work.
[01:53:45]  One day it drives me crazy.
[01:53:48]  One day it drives me crazy.
[01:53:48]  I don't know which one you are.
[01:53:52]  All of them.
[01:53:54]  Can you read this from her sub stack?
[01:53:57]  I put it on here.
[01:53:59]  Courtney Love.
[01:54:01]  Okay.
[01:54:01]  Courtney Love tips me off about RFK Jr. announcing his presidential run.
[01:54:05]  I ignored it the first time, but took note of the second.
[01:54:08]  I knew very little about him other than he was heavily censored during COVID like me.
[01:54:14]  His Instagram account was permanently deactivated.
[01:54:16]  Many friends of mine followed him as a light, cutting through dark dystopian times during that period.
[01:54:22]  So I was pleased to hear he would be running.
[01:54:24]  But politics was not my thing.
[01:54:27]  So she works as like some kind of something for the RFK Jr. campaign.
[01:54:32]  Like she's attached to him at the hip, covers him like day and night.
[01:54:37]  I think she really crafts kind of a lot of her public image.
[01:54:40]  And I will say this, like in her defense, not in her defense, but like as a, as a, as a bit of a compliment here, she's really good at making Instagram stories, you know?
[01:54:50]  Yeah.
[01:54:50]  There's no two ways about it.
[01:54:52]  As young Chomsky certainly know that I sometimes forget to even post our episodes on Instagram at all.
[01:55:00]  Yeah.
[01:55:02]  I didn't know that.
[01:55:02]  I don't really, you know what?
[01:55:04]  But who's seen it for the first time on Instagram?
[01:55:06]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:55:07]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:55:08]  Well, it's a, you know, it's a gig.
[01:55:10]  She, she is, she also claims, and some of this is information that I just have, but some, uh, she also claims to be sort of the conduit between the Trump campaign and RFK Jr. campaign.
[01:55:21]  And I don't know if that's just smoke.
[01:55:22]  I don't know if people are bullshitting me.
[01:55:24]  I don't know what's going on there, but this is what I've heard.
[01:55:26]  That she was part of the midwife.
[01:55:28]  She was a midwife.
[01:55:29]  She midwife this motherfucker.
[01:55:30]  She like got RFK Jr. in with Trump.
[01:55:33]  I will say like her posts about politicians, it's so like it's kind of very effective propaganda for a certain kind of person who consumes a lot of mommy blogger content because it's all like, it's all like RFK Jr. is hot.
[01:55:48]  Basically, like he looks great in these jeans.
[01:55:50]  Ew.
[01:55:51]  No, he doesn't.
[01:55:52]  Liz, sexuality is a spectrum.
[01:55:54]  Have you heard of...
[01:55:55]  Wait, I thought he was trying to erase that.
[01:55:57]  Kinsey?
[01:55:57]  He was trying to solve this.
[01:55:58]  He's trying to solve all the spectrums at once.
[01:56:02]  It's just, she's like, she's like, JD Vance is cute.
[01:56:05]  I mean, she transformed.
[01:56:07]  I don't know, Liz, but she's, listen, people, there's all kinds of people in this motherfucking world.
[01:56:12]  But like, she completes that transformation from like Southern California kind of hippie, whatever, like Van Life mom to like Trump to Pork.
[01:56:22]  Right.
[01:56:22]  But that is Van Life mom to RFK to Trump is like, I don't, that's not that big of a jump, I will say.
[01:56:31]  As someone very familiar with the proto-maha lifestyle in not myself personally, but in LA, it is just like everywhere.
[01:56:41]  It's everywhere.
[01:56:42]  Yeah.
[01:56:42]  There's no escaping it.
[01:56:44]  It's not, it's just like how that place is kind of constructed.
[01:56:53]  Yeah.
[01:56:54]  I mean, I, I, you know, listen, I ran into, so I listened to the DNC episode.
[01:56:58]  Remember, I got on a RFK Jr. tour bus.
[01:57:04]  This is like a few days actually before RFK Jr. surrendered.
[01:57:07]  That was driven by Justin Trudeau's brother-in-law.
[01:57:12]  I bet he's got a little bit of, I bet he's got some feelings right now.
[01:57:16]  I know.
[01:57:16]  I hit him up actually, and he was like, I'm just following him, you know?
[01:57:20]  I should hit him up there.
[01:57:21]  I don't know.
[01:57:22]  God knows.
[01:57:23]  To the White House?
[01:57:24]  I don't know.
[01:57:24]  I should check in on the guy.
[01:57:27]  But one of the people on the bus was an employee of House and Habit who also worked for Milianapolis in County West.
[01:57:36]  And she was like, oh, you know, Jessica's like, you should meet, you should meet her.
[01:57:39]  was like i please don't tell you're with me like i'm like i don't want i don't want that be i don't want any of that smoke you know what i mean like i'm like i'm good on that i don't want to fucking meet her and have some weird interaction i'm trying to have a good time with justin trudeau's brother-in-law um but and then jessica read kraus is like messing her back being like oh that's how funny like yeah you guys should come meet up and i'm like I'm good.
[01:58:04]  I also went, I just went home.
[01:58:06]  But during that, she was like, yeah, like a lot of the stories on there, you know, she kind of just like assigns us stuff and like tells us to write whatever.
[01:58:14]  Because at that point, House and Habits blog, House and Habit, isn't just Jessica Reed Krauss.
[01:58:19]  There's like a whole team of people writing for her.
[01:58:22]  It's like a full-on site.
[01:58:23]  It's like a full-on site.
[01:58:24]  It's like one of the biggest sub stacks.
[01:58:26]  And I'm just saying from that conversation, I got the impression that like maybe some things on the site were well, listen, there's just some things on the site that a lot of anonymous interviews with people that I think maybe are perhaps just written by the writer who's doing the article.
[01:58:43]  That maybe there's no fucking interviews at all.
[01:58:45]  It is just, I mean, it beggars belief some of the stuff that I read.
[01:58:52]  Her entire team, however, quit after she gets in a bizarre beef due to her close friendship with Olivia Nuzzy and a disgraced Broadley editor.
[01:59:04]  Do you remember that?
[01:59:05]  Do you remember that website, Broadly?
[01:59:07]  Not really.
[01:59:07]  I was editor-in-chief of Broadley for many years.
[01:59:09]  The actual, I think, editor of Broadley got in trouble.
[01:59:12]  I can't remember this fucking dude's name, but he got in trouble for actually just sending.
[01:59:19]  This is actually pretty funny.
[01:59:20]  So he was editing Broadly, like the woke vice woman site, I think it was.
[01:59:25]  And he would send Mali Annopoulos stories from his own website and be like, Breitbart has to cover this and like make fun of it.
[01:59:31]  Wait, what?
[01:59:32]  Yeah.
[01:59:32]  And he got caught doing it.
[01:59:34]  Wait, why would you do that?
[01:59:36]  He thought it was good press or because he was like secret.
[01:59:39]  He was secret anti-woke in the woke.
[01:59:41]  He was secret anti-woke.
[01:59:42]  In the woke war.
[01:59:43]  And now he does press for like double agent.
[01:59:48]  He does press for like Candace Owens and people like that now.
[01:59:50]  She's like a right-wing like press agent, basically.
[01:59:54]  But, you know, she's driving around in an RFK 666 license plate van with Olivia Nuzzy and this Broadley guy.
[02:00:02]  And I think she gets into some like strange beef with Ian Carroll, who is like a like TikTok conspiracy guy who's like pretty clearly hates Jews also.
[02:00:17]  And Candace Owens over like hanging out with Olivia Nuzzy because she's like, Olivia Nuzzy is blackmailing RFK Jr. for Israel because guess what?
[02:00:29]  Olivia Nuzzy used to work for Anthony Weiner.
[02:00:34]  Oh my God.
[02:00:34]  And Anthony Weiner is close to the Clinton.
[02:00:37]  Yeah, that's where Q comes in.
[02:00:39]  But I'm like, I don't think Anthony Wiener's close to the Pizzagate anymore, dude.
[02:00:42]  Do they talk about Pizzagate?
[02:00:45]  I think there is a Pizzagate Ian Carroll thing.
[02:00:47]  I don't know.
[02:00:48]  He bugs the shit out of me.
[02:00:49]  So I do not.
[02:00:50]  I like the idea of Olivia Nuzzy being, or is it Nuzi, being a minor Pizzagate character in the extended universe?
[02:01:00]  Yes.
[02:01:00]  Well, it's funny because I'd actually heard that Jessica Reed Krause had actually campaigned or like masterminded RFK Jr.'s when he hit back against Nuzzy during like the whole Nuzi sext gate with RFK Jr.
[02:01:16]  By the way, I'm on Nuzzy's side.
[02:01:18]  I just want to say 100%.
[02:01:19]  Yes.
[02:01:19]  Absolutely on Nuzzy's side on that.
[02:01:22]  And I will say, if there's an I'm not totally sure which side it is, but I'm on that side.
[02:01:27]  I think she might be back on RFK Jr.'s side.
[02:01:29]  I don't know.
[02:01:30]  I don't really know.
[02:01:30]  I'm on her side no matter what.
[02:01:32]  I love it.
[02:01:32]  I just, because I just want to know.
[02:01:34]  Yeah, I want to know.
[02:01:34]  I want to know what it is.
[02:01:35]  Oh, I don't want to know that.
[02:01:36]  His penis?
[02:01:37]  I just want to know all the other stuff.
[02:01:38]  He's got to have a huge one.
[02:01:40]  No, I don't.
[02:01:40]  I'm not talking about that.
[02:01:41]  I want to know all the other stuff.
[02:01:43]  I know.
[02:01:43]  I want to know all the other stuff too.
[02:01:45]  It's crazy that someone hasn't hired her.
[02:01:48]  Anyways, this is all to say that Jessica Reed Krauss has gone from being like this mommy blogger to sort of like working her way up free Ghelane, free Johnny, free all these people, into like being a pretty like well-connected DC right-wing operator.
[02:02:07]  Right-wing operator.
[02:02:08]  Yeah, I hesitate to say reporter because it's not really.
[02:02:10]  Well, she was one of the people that was given one of the Epstein binders by Pam Bondi or Trump or whoever did it.
[02:02:16]  I mean, that's what's so outrageous to me too, right?
[02:02:19]  Is that like of this like coderie?
[02:02:22]  The files, by the way, from Virginia Jeffries' suit.
[02:02:27]  All of the files in the binder that she's holding came, most of them came out of that suit.
[02:02:32]  Given to a woman who like is probably the only person in human history to wear a free Ghelane t-shirt.
[02:02:40]  Who hangs out with people who have a vendetta against Virginia because what she says is fake, even though this woman is holding a binder and espousing all of the facts that Virginia gave to the Feds.
[02:02:51]  I mean, we are so through the fucking, I don't even know what looking glass we're through here.
[02:02:56]  We're just in the realm of fucking nuts and liars at this motherfucker.
[02:03:00]  And I think that's what strikes me as so crazy.
[02:03:02]  You're right.
[02:03:03]  I mean, the photograph that was taken of Lady of Victoria Hervey, the QAnon pro Andrew, Prince Andrew ex-girlfriend, you know, George Tonks booster, free Ghelane number one with Vicki Ward, this person who like helped cover this shit up in the fucking first place, taken by Jessica Reed Krauss, the free Ghelane person who was given the Epstein binder by the fucking Trump government in this like fake release, by the way, which we've heard nothing else about,
[02:03:32]  the second tranche because it's not fucking coming At a party thrown by fucking Peter Mandelson.
[02:03:43]  Friend to Jeffrey Epstein.
[02:03:45]  and cares no more.
[02:03:57]  Well, what did we learn?
[02:03:58]  Fuck these people.
[02:04:00]  Yeah.
[02:04:01]  Well, yeah.
[02:04:02]  Yeah.
[02:04:03]  I mean, I guess we didn't really learn that.
[02:04:07]  I don't know we learned much, but like, you know, I think, I don't know, Virginia's death is, I don't know what I've been thinking about a lot because I think that there's like, it's one of those things where, where the, the Epstein case has sort of, and we've talked about this on the show before, but it's become kind of like meme-fied to the point where I really think that like tranche release, tranche release by the, which is our word, by the way.

=== Nothing Happening Drives Crazy (01:40) ===

[02:04:33]  By the way, our word.
[02:04:35]  By the Trump government to all these like right-wing influencers fucking holding up these binders and smiling.
[02:04:42]  I think like that's like those two things, like Virginia dying by suicide, you know, at this sort of isolated farm in Western Australia, while across the world, like these people are fucking partying all together.
[02:04:58]  I don't know.
[02:04:58]  For me, like that, that is like, I think that symbolizes in many ways like what really happened here.
[02:05:04]  I don't know what really happened here is the right way to put it, but like what came of the whole Epstein thing.
[02:05:09]  Exactly.
[02:05:09]  What came of it?
[02:05:10]  It's just fucking sad.
[02:05:12]  Yeah, I know.
[02:05:14]  Yeah.
[02:05:15]  Well.
[02:05:16]  That's why we're a law and order podcast.
[02:05:18]  I know.
[02:05:19]  Because all of these people need to be put in jail.
[02:05:22]  And the only way to do that is to bring back some law and order.
[02:05:27]  Because this country is, it's going down the tube.
[02:05:32]  We are in fucking chaos right now because these nuts on every level from local to federal, both parties, everybody is just a fucking, it's a free-for-all.
[02:05:44]  They're all criminals and there's no rules.
[02:05:46]  They loot and they rob and they make and everything.
[02:05:50]  And then they dance on your fucking, you know, right in your fucking face.
[02:05:53]  These people are insane.
[02:05:55]  And we just, there just needs to be, there needs to be some real justice in this world.
[02:05:59]  But there's no government capable of competently.
[02:06:02]  There's no, there's no, there's nothing happening here.
[02:06:04]  It's, it's, it drives you crazy.
[02:06:06]  Yeah, well, not yet.
[02:06:08]  But until then, I'm Liz.
[02:06:09]  My name is Brace.
[02:06:10]  I'm producer Young Chomsky.
[02:06:12]  And this has been TrueNON.
[02:06:13]  We'll see you next time.