True Anon Truth Feed - Episode 354: Spit Test
Aired: 2024-02-15
Duration: 01:12:38


=== Lizzo's Controversial Bananas (03:00) ===

[00:00:03]  That was so sad sounding.
[00:00:08]  That's that song?
[00:00:09]  What do you you don't know that song?
[00:00:12]  When I began singing it, I was like, oh, that's that song.
[00:00:15]  Yeah.
[00:00:16]  What happened to her?
[00:00:18]  Lizzo?
[00:00:19]  She's around.
[00:00:19]  I feel like she kind of wore out her welcome.
[00:00:22]  No, she got canceled.
[00:00:28]  Oh, yes.
[00:00:29]  I forgot she wore out her welcome because she forced her dancer to eat a banana out of a stripper's vagina in Europe and then berated her.
[00:00:39]  Yeah, I don't know what's up with that story.
[00:00:41]  Well, also, I think she pretty much, it was like that.
[00:00:44]  And then it was just everyone who'd ever worked with her was like so excited to just talk about how they thought she was an asshole.
[00:00:50]  So it was like the floodgates were open and everyone's just like, you know, we're collectively kind of annoyed with her.
[00:00:56]  So let's just move her along for a little bit.
[00:00:58]  Well, the thing with the banana is, I gotta say, I looked into that a little bit, not.
[00:01:02]  The old banana in the tailpipe?
[00:01:04]  Well, it was not, it's more like the four pipe.
[00:01:08]  And I don't know, it could have been a banana out of the asshole.
[00:01:11]  Actually, I don't know.
[00:01:12]  Neither of you get my ass.
[00:01:13]  I know what the banana in the tailpipe is.
[00:01:15]  It's a classic prank where you prevent the officer's car from chasing you and your hoodlum friends by having one of your bum buddies put a banana in his tailpipe.
[00:01:24]  Yeah, or one of your buddy cops.
[00:01:26]  Or one of your buddy cops.
[00:01:27]  Yeah.
[00:01:28]  But what I'm saying with Lizzo is she did take her dancer she was bullying to the eat the banana out of the vagina place.
[00:01:36]  And so it's like, kind of buy the ticket, take it all right.
[00:01:40]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:01:41]  Yeah, but I think they felt forced to do it because they were employed by her.
[00:01:44]  I agree with that.
[00:01:45]  Yeah, I'm not saying it's, listen, I'm not saying that everyone's free of sin here, but I'm saying Lizzo didn't like take her down to like the buffet at the restaurant they were eating at.
[00:01:56]  It was like, waitress, put a banana in there and then like, you ate it.
[00:02:01]  But I do think that's what people were kind of immediately.
[00:02:03]  I do think that's.
[00:02:04]  And listen, that's happened to me, you know?
[00:02:07]  Well, it was like Italian wedding soup, and it was one of the worst experiences of last tour.
[00:02:14]  And it's the reason that we no longer have a fourth member of the podcast.
[00:02:39]  Ladies and gentlemen, unpeel those bananas and unscrew the lid of grandma's Italian wedding soup with the meatballs in it.
[00:02:50]  My name is Brace Belden, and I am 100% Irish.
[00:02:57]  I thought you were going to be like Lizzo's and Lizzo's.
[00:03:01]  Not going to say, you've gotten mad at me for calling you Lizzo.

=== Parisian Grievance (04:54) ===

[00:03:04]  Not me, the people.
[00:03:05]  Oh.
[00:03:07]  Apparently, I was just looking up what happened to her, and she was at the Super Bowl.
[00:03:10]  Hello, everyone.
[00:03:11]  I'm Liz.
[00:03:12]  We are, of course, joined by producer Yamchansky.
[00:03:14]  This is Truan.
[00:03:15]  Hello, everybody.
[00:03:16]  Welcome.
[00:03:16]  Hello.
[00:03:17]  I just wanted to get through it because I wanted to really click on Lizzo's, according to People Magazine, edgy Super Bowl outfit with fishnet stockings and a fiery red mullet.
[00:03:27]  Oh, my God.
[00:03:28]  Also, I think it's the edgy.
[00:03:31]  Well, I don't know about that.
[00:03:32]  I mean, this is a full SS uniform she's wearing here.
[00:03:35]  This is absurd.
[00:03:36]  She's not even wearing like the woman's auxiliary kind of stuff.
[00:03:40]  This is just full head to toe.
[00:03:42]  She looks like Goebbels.
[00:03:43]  Oh, my God.
[00:03:45]  I appreciate her going to that.
[00:03:48]  I mean, I guess she's back.
[00:03:49]  I don't really know.
[00:03:50]  I don't really know.
[00:03:51]  Liz never really mentioned.
[00:03:52]  She should keep hanging out with Jeff Bezos.
[00:03:53]  Remember that?
[00:03:54]  I do.
[00:03:55]  Well, it was a, no, it was, who's that picture?
[00:03:57]  Lil Nas X, Katie Perry, Jeff Bezos.
[00:04:01]  And I feel like there's someone else weird in it, too.
[00:04:04]  I look at it sometimes when I'm like, I'm too happy.
[00:04:07]  You ever have things like that when you're like too happy, you have to look at something to bring you down?
[00:04:11]  No, what?
[00:04:12]  You know, you're having a good day and you're like, this is, I need to, like, watch a show or something to like bring me.
[00:04:20]  It's like to restore the balance.
[00:04:21]  It doesn't make you have a bad day, but it just brings you down from having too good of a day.
[00:04:25]  I think that's healthy.
[00:04:26]  It's a yin-yang kind of thing that I'm in do.
[00:04:28]  I want to bring something to your attention before we get into the episode, Briece.
[00:04:31]  What is it?
[00:04:32]  I have some news, some personal news.
[00:04:33]  It's sort of personal news, but it's not actually personal.
[00:04:37]  But the personal is political.
[00:04:39]  And this is political news that is personal to me.
[00:04:44]  So do you remember two years ago?
[00:04:49]  I don't like where this is going.
[00:04:50]  I sent both of y'all in the old group text a grievance of mine, of which there are many, but this was a specific one, where I was in Gayol Paris.
[00:05:05]  And I was like, there is, I'm noticing a really big issue, which is that everywhere in Paris, this was two years ago, people, so this has now hit stateside, so don't come at me like, that's already here.
[00:05:18]  This was two years ago, okay?
[00:05:20]  There is a pox on our cities.
[00:05:24]  A cancer is spreading of fake flowers that are taking over businesses in order to attract TikTokian posters.
[00:05:33]  I think it's beyond that now, but yeah.
[00:05:36]  Right.
[00:05:36]  But I'm saying this was two years ago in Paris.
[00:05:38]  I sent you guys a whole thing with photographic evidence and a screed of which I am quite capable of screeding.
[00:05:48]  The people of Paris still have the revolutionary spirit within them because they have voted to regulate the flower installation.
[00:05:59]  Yes, in small businesses, they are not banning them, but they are not allowing every business to just willy-nilly go on down to Michael's or where the fuck they're going and getting all these silk flowers and like, you know, tacking them up on the old bricks.
[00:06:14]  It is ridiculous how many fucking restaurants, if you walk in Williamsburg or you walk in Manhattan, every fucking restaurant that has like a kind of like indoorish outdoor, you know, like a front area is just covered with flowers.
[00:06:31]  It's insane.
[00:06:32]  But it's beyond that.
[00:06:33]  Like no one's even filming the TikTok there anymore because of that because they all have them.
[00:06:36]  What's the point?
[00:06:37]  Yeah.
[00:06:37]  And so here's another like disgusting, wasteful pig society moment because all that shit is just going to end up in the ocean, by the way, as TikTok and consumer choices change.
[00:06:50]  But that being said, I want to applaud the good people of Paris for, because they were not only the first to also vote with like the highest voter turnout ever in the history of Paris to vote to ban scooters like the good people that they are.
[00:07:06]  Yes.
[00:07:06]  Of which every American city should follow.
[00:07:08]  I agree.
[00:07:09]  But also to move, to finally put a stop to this cancer on their streets.
[00:07:15]  I really do appreciate it.
[00:07:17]  I will probably never go to Paris because I'm afraid of the Great Replacement, but I...
[00:07:22]  Well, the Olympics are over after...
[00:07:25]  Yeah, well, and I can't go.
[00:07:27]  I'm banned from the Olympics anyways for doping.
[00:07:29]  But I don't.
[00:07:32]  I do not.
[00:07:34]  There's so many things related to that.
[00:07:36]  Let me bitch to you about something real quick.
[00:07:39]  I don't know when this started, but whenever people are describing something that they find aesthetically pleasing as just aesthetic, it drives me fucking bad.
[00:07:48]  How long have they been doing that?
[00:07:50]  It's been a while, but it's bad.
[00:07:52]  It's like shorthand Tumblr moron brain.
[00:07:56]  It's insane to me.

=== Race Fakers and Fake Accents (11:50) ===

[00:07:58]  I don't know.
[00:07:59]  I can bear a lot, right?
[00:08:01]  I would say, in fact, I bear most of the weight of the world on my shoulders.
[00:08:05]  But this is like the one thing that like every time I see it, I'm like, what are you talking about?
[00:08:10]  You can't, like, just not.
[00:08:12]  And it makes me sound like I guess I'm 100 years old, but I hate it.
[00:08:16]  People got to read a book.
[00:08:17]  We know, we haven't done this in a while, actually.
[00:08:20]  I want to – let's air some grievances.
[00:08:22]  We have an episode today, but, you know, it's been a minute since we – I got some grievances to air within that episode.
[00:08:27]  I want me to.
[00:08:29]  But yeah, no, I got some shit I want to complain about.
[00:08:33]  Wait, now that I said that, I can't think of any.
[00:08:35]  I can't think of any either.
[00:08:36]  But let me, I really can't.
[00:08:38]  Maybe.
[00:08:39]  What if we're losing our hater status?
[00:08:40]  I think this might just be turning a new leaf.
[00:08:43]  I feel like as the world gets more hateful and more angry, that we as Trunon get more loving.
[00:08:49]  I like that.
[00:08:50]  Kinder.
[00:08:50]  So if there's one message that this podcast has always been about, it is just showing kindness to every human being out there.
[00:08:57]  Liz, when you were younger, not that that's possible.
[00:09:01]  Did you have any friends or just acquaintances who went to Ireland or England for an extended period of time and returned with an accent that they did not leave with?
[00:09:12]  Are you fucking talking about me?
[00:09:14]  Did you do that?
[00:09:15]  You didn't.
[00:09:16]  You know that.
[00:09:17]  I didn't know that you were.
[00:09:18]  Yes, I lived in London when I was a kid.
[00:09:20]  And I came, but I was like little.
[00:09:22]  This isn't fake.
[00:09:24]  I know what you're talking about.
[00:09:25]  And I definitely actually know a real person that did that very famously, actually, when she was like 19.
[00:09:32]  And everyone's like, you don't change an accent when you're 19.
[00:09:35]  But I was five.
[00:09:37]  And so when I came back to the States and went to school, I got bullied for talking funny, which persists to this day.
[00:09:45]  You did.
[00:09:46]  By the way.
[00:09:47]  You don't talk in a British accent.
[00:09:48]  You saw me talk funny sometimes.
[00:09:50]  That's true.
[00:09:51]  But also, I, you know, to all the bullies out there, I talk how I talk.
[00:09:57]  I've always talked how I talk.
[00:09:58]  And this is how I talk.
[00:10:00]  So shut the fuck up.
[00:10:01]  And that's when Liz's extended stay in English.
[00:10:04]  She talks in this classic British accent that we all know and love.
[00:10:07]  I did get bullied, though.
[00:10:09]  The kids, and I went to all-girls school, which is also crazy.
[00:10:11]  Me too.
[00:10:12]  But the kids were like, say banana.
[00:10:16]  And I'd be like, banana.
[00:10:17]  And they'd be like, say it again.
[00:10:18]  Say it in a non-jokey voice.
[00:10:19]  Say like that in a non-jokey voice.
[00:10:22]  Banana.
[00:10:24]  I know.
[00:10:25]  Did they say that?
[00:10:25]  And I'd be like, mom, can I have a tango?
[00:10:28]  Like, I totally like, I know.
[00:10:31]  And I like kind of went British.
[00:10:33]  Like, I broke British because I went home from school one day and complained to my mom that all the kids got to eat candy all day and I didn't.
[00:10:41]  And she was like, yeah, that's why they look like that.
[00:10:43]  Like you can't just eat fucking Cadbury bars at school.
[00:10:47]  Oh, because British people do that.
[00:10:49]  Yeah.
[00:10:49]  Little British people love sweets.
[00:10:52]  Me chocolate.
[00:10:54]  Like they're big guy.
[00:10:55]  Actually, Willy Wonka is American now that I'm thinking of it.
[00:10:57]  It just looks kind of like.
[00:10:59]  He's British-coated.
[00:11:00]  Especially the whole Chalamet excursion.
[00:11:03]  And just like the whole having a little poor boy go over there that feels like – I feel like Gene Wilder, not British coded, but the Chalamet version definitely British coded.
[00:11:12]  It is a crazy thing that they made a Wonka backstory movie.
[00:11:16]  Yeah, dark wonka.
[00:11:18]  What I'm getting to with the Irish-British thing, because I feel like those are the two main ones.
[00:11:21]  Like nobody goes to like West Africa for six months and like returns with a West African accent or like goes to France and returns.
[00:11:27]  I could see Prince Harry doing that.
[00:11:29]  I could also see that.
[00:11:30]  But like, no, but you know what I mean?
[00:11:31]  Like no one goes like, I spent six months living in France and like I can't do a French in speaking English accent, but you can imagine it.
[00:11:40]  It's really only Irish or British.
[00:11:43]  And I have known quite a few people that did this.
[00:11:46]  What I'm asking with today's episode is, Liz, maybe that that should be legal.
[00:11:51]  Switching your accent?
[00:11:53]  Switching your accent.
[00:11:54]  In fact, switching your race.
[00:11:55]  Nope.
[00:11:57]  Ladies and gentlemen, we are talking about one of the greatest inventions of all time that is now basically worthless.
[00:12:06]  23andMe.
[00:12:06]  So many things that we could name.
[00:12:10]  There will be other things named in this episode that are basically worthless that were at one time heralded as wonderful inventions.
[00:12:17]  Now, I want to ask here, has anyone in this room ever gotten a 23andMe test done?
[00:12:21]  No.
[00:12:21]  Fuck no.
[00:12:23]  What would you guess if you could?
[00:12:26]  That I can eat cilantro just fine.
[00:12:32]  Ashkenazi Jewish.
[00:12:34]  Oh, you meant that stuff.
[00:12:35]  Yeah.
[00:12:37]  I don't give a fuck.
[00:12:39]  Race list, Liz.
[00:12:41]  I think that I would be some type of brother.
[00:12:45]  I don't really know whatever that would mean, but I feel like I would be, you know what I'm saying?
[00:12:52]  Not really, no.
[00:12:54]  I'd be a brother.
[00:12:55]  I'm not going with this.
[00:12:58]  The vision isn't completely clear in my mind, but that word looms large, like the Hollywood sign.
[00:13:04]  So I have never done a 23andMe test because I figured that giving my genetic information to a Silicon Valley company was probably, even without looking into it when it came out, I was like, I don't think I feel comfortable doing that.
[00:13:22]  Have you ever taken a like internet medical test?
[00:13:25]  No.
[00:13:26]  How would you even do that?
[00:13:27]  Like you can get like by, like, they have all those like direct-to-consumer like health tests.
[00:13:32]  Have you ever taken one of those?
[00:13:33]  No.
[00:13:34]  There's like a really, the one that's like very expensive and very famous, the Dutch test.
[00:13:38]  But that's like more serious than the ones that are like, we test to see if you're allergic to wheat.
[00:13:43]  Or we test to see if you have.
[00:13:46]  Oh, I just have like the Jew shit wrong with me.
[00:13:48]  Like I like, that dairy hurts my tummy and I'm annoying.
[00:13:55]  But I can't like, no, I think 23andMe would tell you that, not otherwise.
[00:13:59]  I don't need 23andMe to tell me that.
[00:14:00]  I got a mirror and I can see myself in profile.
[00:14:03]  My tongue can touch the tip of my nose without even really leaving my mouth.
[00:14:08]  So true.
[00:14:10]  I mean, it does leave my mouth.
[00:14:12]  Wait, can wait, do it again?
[00:14:14]  Nice.
[00:14:16]  Listen, I look like a Dare Sturmer drawing.
[00:14:18]  You don't need to look at that.
[00:14:20]  I have, however, been looking at the 23andMe subreddit.
[00:14:24]  You kind of got me on this.
[00:14:24]  Yeah, I was saying that last night.
[00:14:26]  Well, I've just been searching for.
[00:14:27]  What's the 23andMe stock subreddit?
[00:14:29]  I've been looking at the 23andMe subreddit and searching for the words surprised, Irish, and Indian.
[00:14:37]  And let me tell you, there are so many people out there that thought that they were 100% Irish and turn out to be perhaps not Irish at all.
[00:14:48]  Which feels very Irish to me.
[00:14:50]  Like, that seems very part of the Irish experience.
[00:14:52]  I think that specific part of brand of ignorance is per you are Irish American.
[00:14:57]  Like you, you are almost more Irish American than any of our classic ones like the Boondock Saints or Goodwill Hunting.
[00:15:06]  There's also a number of people who in like so many that it goes beyond cliché to like genuinely concerning who really did think that they were like the grandson of a Portuguese or not Portuguese excuse me a Cherokee princess.
[00:15:24]  I mean a Portuguese princess of a Portuguese princess would be kind of fire.
[00:15:28]  But there would be there was a lot of people who thought that they were like sometimes a good deal native despite having no identifiable native ancestors.
[00:15:39]  Now to our listeners.
[00:15:40]  If you think that we have been doing this podcast for too long, that we've gotten too smart, we've gotten too good, we've gotten too professional to make jokes about Elizabeth Warren thinking that she's Native American, you are wrong.
[00:15:55]  You are wrong.
[00:15:56]  There will be lots of jokes about that in this episode.
[00:15:59]  That is not only that, but behind the scenes, throughout the tenure of this program, I have been keeping a close eye on race faker scandals and obviously my dream, the race faker roundtable.
[00:16:16]  I've told you about the race faker roundtable.
[00:16:18]  We should get Friedland on, for I want no, I want someone from every race.
[00:16:21]  No, that's too.
[00:16:22]  That's, Dave Chappelle, like the race draft that I know I would.
[00:16:25]  We'd have to figure out a way to make it not the race draft maybe, like you're not allowed to claim people.
[00:16:31]  Well, I guess that's yeah, I don't know, but I just I picture that being I.
[00:16:36]  But yeah, you're right.
[00:16:37]  You're probably right a little too, Dave Chappelle.
[00:16:40]  But yeah, I'm like the Race.
[00:16:42]  The Race Faker episode will come.
[00:16:44]  We should get Taleb on to do it.
[00:16:46]  That's what I'm saying.
[00:16:47]  We should get some of the.
[00:16:47]  We should get real race scientists on interesting, but that gets us a little weird territory too.
[00:16:54]  So yeah, I was about to say maybe amateur race scientists, but that's actually probably even worse.
[00:16:59]  Maybe it's.
[00:17:00]  Maybe this needs To go back to the moment.
[00:17:01]  Maybe just Friedland.
[00:17:02]  Yeah, I guess that's an amateur race scientist right there.
[00:17:04]  Amateur race.
[00:17:06]  But there has been a number of scandals in Canada that are sort of Warrenian type scandals, including one of two women who appeared to be Indian from India who were claiming that they were Indian American, which I thought was very clever on their part.
[00:17:26]  Wait, you mean Indian?
[00:17:27]  Like First Nations.
[00:17:29]  First Nations.
[00:17:29]  First Nations.
[00:17:30]  But they were like, we're Indian.
[00:17:32]  Well, I guess it was a homonym for them.
[00:17:34]  Yeah.
[00:17:35]  I mean, it is, I can see the logic that they were using thinking that they would get away with it.
[00:17:40]  And pretty smart that they did.
[00:17:41]  Did they all work in academia?
[00:17:44]  No.
[00:17:45]  But I will say the vast majority of these have occurred within the bounds of academia.
[00:17:51]  Yeah, academia and media, I would say.
[00:17:53]  Yeah.
[00:17:54]  Almost exclusively.
[00:17:55]  Well, and like the professional activist class.
[00:17:57]  I mean, but then you also have to consider like there's probably a lot of amateur race fakers out there who just haven't risen to the rock.
[00:18:05]  Well, the ones that have gotten away with it.
[00:18:07]  Yeah, true.
[00:18:07]  But like Dolezal, for example.
[00:18:09]  Dolezal only really got caught because she was rocking too hard, right?
[00:18:13]  She was in the NAAC.
[00:18:14]  She was like, she was too early.
[00:18:16]  She was also too early.
[00:18:17]  It was like, one thing is like, it's real tough as an early adopter, believe me, I know my cross debtor, that when you come to something too soon, the people aren't ready for it.
[00:18:26]  No.
[00:18:27]  They're not ready for it.
[00:18:28]  No, they're really not.
[00:18:29]  And with Dolezal, I have mixed feelings about her because I find her to be a pitiable figure.
[00:18:36]  Did you watch the movie?
[00:18:38]  The movie made me really sad for her kids.
[00:18:40]  Maybe really sad.
[00:18:41]  And then the OnlyFans, remember that?
[00:18:43]  Yeah, I felt much better about her when she was just doing cameo.
[00:18:47]  Yeah, I didn't make you feel good either.
[00:18:49]  But I have like a soft spot for Dolezal that I don't have for some of these other people because she's, in the grand scheme of things, really amateurish, right?
[00:18:58]  Like she's not a professional.
[00:19:00]  I mean, yeah.
[00:19:01]  Professional race faker?
[00:19:02]  Yeah, she wasn't like somebody who's like using a fake race to like get tenure professorship or something like that.
[00:19:08]  You know what I mean?
[00:19:09]  She was like, granted, she was in the Spokane and everything.
[00:19:13]  So yes, but like it's still relatively low.
[00:19:16]  I can't imagine that paid.
[00:19:17]  She wasn't running for senator.
[00:19:19]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:19:20]  For example.
[00:19:20]  Or for president.
[00:19:21]  Or president.
[00:19:22]  When that came out.
[00:19:23]  Yeah.
[00:19:24]  I guess it came out when people defended.
[00:19:26]  Man, this was real fun, just to think back.
[00:19:27]  There was the defense of the taking of the DNA test.
[00:19:31]  Yes.
[00:19:32]  Which was so good.
[00:19:33]  I think that was from the pod boys.
[00:19:36]  And then she was kind of like, but see, like I am a little bit right?
[00:19:39]  I can't remember.
[00:19:40]  Well, that's why these kinds of people, like Liz Warren is such a perfect example of that kind of like upper middle class like bored lady consumer, we'll say.

=== Sergey Bryn's 23andMe Blog (15:24) ===

[00:19:49]  Don't need to gender because there's a lot of men out there too.
[00:19:52]  And everyone in between.
[00:19:55]  But like the generic like middle-class consumer that buys this kind of shit to find like especially like white middle class American consumer that's like looking like first of all, I just want confirmation that I got a little spice.
[00:20:09]  A little spice.
[00:20:10]  Just a little spice.
[00:20:11]  Not enough so that I'm not white.
[00:20:12]  I'm still white because gotta be white.
[00:20:14]  You gotta be white.
[00:20:15]  But I gotta, I just like a little spice.
[00:20:17]  I think that that's like the ultimate outcome that people want.
[00:20:20]  They want like 5% African or like a little bit Jewish or something.
[00:20:25]  Like they want something that's like a little different in there, but like the majority of it's gotta be just like, oh, look, I'm from here and here and here and here in Europe.
[00:20:34]  That's like, that's kind of your ultimate.
[00:20:35]  But what they want doesn't matter because it's all fucking bullshit.
[00:20:38]  Yeah, that's also true.
[00:20:39]  But we should talk about this company before we get into kind of the bigger stuff here, 23andMe, because they kind of like, you know, I was forgetting this, but they also kind of came about at the same time as all the kind of like the Theranos, the WeWorks, like the big sort of shiny DTC.com, e-comm, Web 2.0 revolutionaries with the like hotshot CEO that was going to like, you know,
[00:21:08]  change life as we know it forever.
[00:21:11]  Yeah, yeah, it is sort of interesting to see like their story in that context too, especially considering some of the post-COVID changes in the DTC healthcare space and how they have not been able to navigate that.
[00:21:26]  But about 23andMe.
[00:21:28]  So I feel like 23andMe in my head has always been like a gift that your like dad gets you or something for Christmas.
[00:21:37]  Like I've never thought of it as something that you bought for yourself and you're like, I really, unless you're like an orphan or something.
[00:21:43]  Yeah, it's very like, I don't know what to get my aunt coded.
[00:21:47]  Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:21:49]  But it, and which turns out to be almost entirely correct.
[00:21:52]  I think that is really a large part of it depends on people getting it for Christmas.
[00:21:56]  As I found out that paternity lawsuits skyrocket in February after people receive DNA and genetic tests for Christmas.
[00:22:05]  You're kidding.
[00:22:06]  No, I'm not.
[00:22:07]  They are, there's like multiple articles about it, like that like they greatly increase.
[00:22:13]  But a little bit of background about the company itself.
[00:22:16]  So it was started in 2006, 2007 by Ann Wojiki.
[00:22:21]  I don't know how to pronounce it, but I'm assuming she's Polish.
[00:22:23]  So this should come naturally to some members of this podcast.
[00:22:27]  But again, I don't see race.
[00:22:29]  Well, we haven't taken any tests, so none of us know.
[00:22:31]  Could be anybody.
[00:22:32]  And Ann Lavery, a geneticist.
[00:22:35]  Two hands.
[00:22:36]  Wojasiki.
[00:22:37]  Wojiki.
[00:22:38]  I don't even fucking pronounce it.
[00:22:39]  Her sister's the CEO of Google.
[00:22:41]  Yeah.
[00:22:41]  Or not Google, excuse me, YouTube.
[00:22:42]  YouTube.
[00:22:43]  Wojcickski.
[00:22:44]  Wojitski.
[00:22:45]  So she is like a Wall Street lady who has invested heavily in, as she talks about in several interviews, WebMD, which I think should be illegal.
[00:22:55]  Maybe doctors would agree.
[00:23:00]  I just think that sometimes some people maybe rely too heavily on it to self-diagnose and make themselves a little bit mentally ill.
[00:23:08]  Well, now you just go to Reddit.
[00:23:10]  Yeah.
[00:23:10]  True, true.
[00:23:11]  But it's not so many people who can tell you what's wrong with it.
[00:23:14]  It's very helpful.
[00:23:15]  It is kind of how I confirmed that I had a male yeast infection when I did, though, instead of some kind of new kind of STD.
[00:23:24]  And Ann Lavery, this geneticist who seems to have maybe come up with some of the science behind it.
[00:23:30]  Wojitsky was the daughter of a Palo Alto family.
[00:23:33]  And the whole thing is like, I mean, she's pretty fucking boring.
[00:23:37]  Yeah.
[00:23:38]  She did famously have a placard on her desk that said, I'm CEO, bitch, just to kind of set the scene.
[00:23:44]  Yeah.
[00:23:44]  Because that's like where we were as a culture in 2006, 2007.
[00:23:49]  We were like, damn, that's the craziest thing a business leader can do in America.
[00:23:54]  When do you think like bitch fell off?
[00:23:57]  Like people were saying bitch like to be like, like, as like a positive thing.
[00:24:03]  I mean, people still do it, but it had like a real heyday.
[00:24:06]  I think bitch was pre-woke.
[00:24:08]  Bitch was kind of, yeah, bitch was kind of pre-woke.
[00:24:11]  And then it was like, it kind of, it was like, bitch.
[00:24:13]  And then also people were like very much like reclaiming slut.
[00:24:19]  Remember the famous slut walk?
[00:24:20]  Oh, too I.
[00:24:21]  And that was the heyday of like the bad gal that's like also the boss gal, like that whole thing.
[00:24:28]  So we kind of like flipped a script on that one when Me Too and Wokeness kind of took over.
[00:24:34]  Yeah, I feel like.
[00:24:35]  So I think it's all pre-woke.
[00:24:36]  Because now during the gender wars of the feminine, like the feminist gender wars in like 06, 07, 08.
[00:24:41]  I feel like with now, if you use bitch, you have to like prefix it with like bad or something like that.
[00:24:47]  Yeah.
[00:24:48]  A-line.
[00:24:48]  Because this is also the time, speaking of Dave Chappelle, obviously.
[00:24:51]  I'm Rick James, bitch.
[00:24:52]  Yeah, so it was a classic.
[00:24:53]  And obviously when it was Zuck put that on his business card famously, which is where this comes from, from Facebook, he was referencing Dave Chappelle.
[00:25:04]  Wait, what did he do?
[00:25:06]  Zuckerberg said, I'm CEO, bitch.
[00:25:08]  That was his whole thing.
[00:25:09]  Mark Zuckerberg said that?
[00:25:11]  Dude, what?
[00:25:11]  You don't know this?
[00:25:12]  This is like classic canon.
[00:25:13]  That's fucking crazy.
[00:25:14]  And he took it as a riff from, because like white college boys loved Dave Chappelle.
[00:25:21]  Talk about wanting some spice.
[00:25:23]  They were like all over that shit.
[00:25:25]  And so he was like, oh, not Rick James, bitch.
[00:25:28]  I'm CEO, bitch.
[00:25:29]  That was his whole thing.
[00:25:31]  Well, Woojasiki.
[00:25:33]  Wow, it's going to keep getting weirder.
[00:25:36]  You can pronounce her name any way you like.
[00:25:38]  I love it.
[00:25:38]  Let's see where it goes.
[00:25:40]  All right.
[00:25:40]  So, Bojasiki's sister was renting out her garage to a couple of guys who would go on to found a company called Google, then called Backrub.
[00:25:50]  So, she was ready.
[00:25:51]  What?
[00:25:52]  Did you know this?
[00:25:53]  No.
[00:25:53]  Google was originally called Backrub.
[00:25:56]  The company was called Backrub.
[00:25:58]  Is that true?
[00:25:59]  Yes, which is incidentally the very reason I'm banned from Google's offices, or as they call them, campuses, which is strange because it's not a place to learn how to love other people, as I found out.
[00:26:11]  So, Anne starts dating Sergey Brin, who is famously one of the top honchos at Google.
[00:26:21]  And she's like, All right, Sergey, I have this idea for a company.
[00:26:26]  We're going to do at-home DTC genetic tests.
[00:26:29]  I got this lady, Ann Lavery, here.
[00:26:31]  She got another guy.
[00:26:32]  And 23andMe gets some immediate startup funding from Google and Genentech.
[00:26:37]  Now, I know Genentech mainly because I worked at a flower shop, and today is Valentine's Day.
[00:26:43]  And I was asked to work at this very same flower shop by my boss via text message yesterday.
[00:26:49]  Wait, seriously?
[00:26:50]  Yes.
[00:26:50]  He was like, Can you come in?
[00:26:51]  He said, Can you work tomorrow?
[00:26:53]  Yeah.
[00:26:53]  I would, but I'm not in San Francisco right now.
[00:26:55]  I worked there like three years ago on Valentine's Day.
[00:26:57]  It's good money, and I'm good at it.
[00:27:01]  How about you've never given me flowers?
[00:27:03]  I don't.
[00:27:04]  Never given me or made an arrangement.
[00:27:06]  I'm not that good at it.
[00:27:08]  But you just said you were good at it.
[00:27:09]  No, I'm good at working at a flower shop.
[00:27:11]  I'm not good at making bouquets.
[00:27:12]  Those are two insanely.
[00:27:14]  What do you mean?
[00:27:14]  Are you good at what?
[00:27:15]  You're good at like what, rigging the cash register?
[00:27:17]  No, I'm not that good at that.
[00:27:19]  I'm good at just the general vibe.
[00:27:22]  And it's not really like a shop.
[00:27:24]  It's like a stand.
[00:27:25]  It's a flower stand on the corner of 19th and Quintara that is Brothers Papadopoulos Flowers, 100% Greek flower shop on 19th Inquitaro, where I worked for many years.
[00:27:37]  You don't need to take a test with those guys.
[00:27:40]  They are from the main, not the mainland.
[00:27:43]  Yeah, they're from the mainland of Greece.
[00:27:44]  Really?
[00:27:45]  Yeah.
[00:27:45]  Oh, yeah, they are.
[00:27:47]  And boy, it is, let me tell you, best flower shop in San Francisco.
[00:27:51]  But it doesn't have windows or doors, so it's technically a flower stand.
[00:27:57]  Anyways, Anne starts dating Sergey Brin.
[00:28:00]  Sergey was like, listen, I got some money for your company, Genentech, which the reason I mentioned the flower shop is the buses used to stop by there.
[00:28:07]  And I would be like, that just seems like an evil.
[00:28:09]  Horrible name for a company.
[00:28:10]  Very evil sounding, right?
[00:28:13]  And within two years of starting, what a Ziggy mysteriously, and we still don't know how this happened, kicked out Ann Lavery.
[00:28:22]  Now, you might say that that is not a very nice thing to do to ice out your co-founder within two years and sort of just taking the ultimate position from her, but this is Silicon Valley, baby.
[00:28:33]  Not to say she's just doing the, again, she's just copying Mark Zuckerberg.
[00:28:37]  Exactly.
[00:28:39]  So 23andMe kind of got its start doing these at-home, pretty expensive tests, but they really blew up into prominence when Sergey Bryn debuts his blog, which only has like three blog posts and is still up, talking about his results from 23andMe.
[00:28:57]  His results and reaction foreshadowed some of the problems with 23andMe.
[00:29:01]  So he found out he had a gene that showed increased risk for Parkinson's.
[00:29:06]  Now, Bryn's mother has...
[00:29:07]  Yeah, possibly.
[00:29:08]  Yeah, possibly.
[00:29:09]  He might have increased risk for Parkinson's.
[00:29:14]  But Bryn's mother has Parkinson's, and so he was like, well, there's nothing I can really do with this information because Parkinson's, we don't really completely know what causes it.
[00:29:25]  But it becomes like this sort of revelatory thing for him.
[00:29:29]  He's like, I found out so much from my genes.
[00:29:32]  So Bryn and Wojiki marry, and this is a little off topic, but I thought this was very interesting.
[00:29:37]  And they have two kids which take the last name Wojin, which is a portmanteau of both of their names.
[00:29:44]  That's very popular in like upper, like in like progressive upper middle class.
[00:29:50]  Really?
[00:29:50]  Yes.
[00:29:52]  I know like one female founder who did the same with her child and her VC partner.
[00:30:02]  But yeah, it's like a very popular thing for like trying to figure out a more progressive way to have like combined, not a hyphen name, but combined names.
[00:30:12]  Whoa.
[00:30:13]  Yeah.
[00:30:13]  Well, unfortunately, names weren't the only thing that Mr. Bryn was combining because he is also, in fact, neither sir nor gay.
[00:30:24]  He was in charge of a little project called Google Glass.
[00:30:27]  And there was a woman who was at Google Glass that he thought looked ravishing in those beautiful shades.
[00:30:33]  And he started cheating on his wife with her.
[00:30:35]  And it was kind of a nasty— Do you think they wore the glasses?
[00:30:38]  I think they wore the glasses and had sex, like freaky style, videoed it, sent each other each other's POV and then masturbated accordingly.
[00:30:47]  Why did you have to take that up to?
[00:30:49]  I just think that's what happened.
[00:30:50]  I mean, that's just allegingly what I think happened when they fucked.
[00:30:57]  But yeah, he started cheating on with a Google Glass person.
[00:31:00]  And it's funny because all the ways that I've seen this described was like Sergei Bryn is going through like a midlife crisis.
[00:31:05]  He wants to be cool.
[00:31:07]  Google Glass is what he views as his entree to like the cool world of like fashion and movie stars and shit like that.
[00:31:13]  And I want to remind everybody that Google Glass, it is actually insane to me that the Apple Vision Pro, which looks worse, not even a contest, significantly worse than the Google Glass, is now like, we're supposed to act like that's normal to be wearing.
[00:31:31]  I don't think we're supposed to.
[00:31:33]  They're trying to normalize it.
[00:31:34]  That fucking, who's that freak with the weird face?
[00:31:36]  Casey Niestat.
[00:31:38]  He's a subhuman.
[00:31:40]  He looks like a Conroe Malley character.
[00:31:42]  Yeah, he looks.
[00:31:43]  Yeah, he does.
[00:31:44]  He looks like a fucking monster.
[00:31:46]  Who is Casey Zach?
[00:31:47]  Google this right now.
[00:31:48]  You saw the video.
[00:31:48]  He's like on the subway stopping.
[00:31:50]  Oh, that's fair.
[00:31:51]  Yeah, he's a human electronic skateboard.
[00:31:54]  He is something.
[00:31:55]  I don't know what his job is.
[00:31:56]  I know it's YouTube.
[00:31:58]  He's a big reviewer.
[00:31:59]  But it's like he loves it all.
[00:32:00]  So I'm not sure what the review is, but he put out like this.
[00:32:03]  He said it was the greatest piece of technology he's ever used.
[00:32:06]  He looks like he lost all his teeth.
[00:32:07]  There's just something.
[00:32:08]  He has crackhead face.
[00:32:10]  Yeah, he does.
[00:32:11]  He says crackhead facehead face.
[00:32:12]  It's crazy.
[00:32:13]  But honestly, respect for a dude that busted to be making it that big.
[00:32:18]  Oh, he's like friends with Mr. Beast.
[00:32:20]  Oh, beyond.
[00:32:22]  Let me tell you, the whole Google Glass or whatever, the Apple Vision Pro ad that he did was just an ad also for Mr. Beast, who also is fucking weird looking.
[00:32:31]  Yeah, they are weird looking.
[00:32:33]  Anyways, this is for some reason we're supposed to pretend like we can tolerate this.
[00:32:39]  I yearn for the days back when Google Glass came out when it was met with physical violence.
[00:32:45]  It was.
[00:32:46]  There was like, I was at 4 Barrel and someone started a fucking fight with someone who was wearing them in 4 Barrel, which is like so San Francisco and also so of that time.
[00:32:57]  And we started calling them Google, Google Glass Holes.
[00:33:00]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:33:02]  There was one person who got beat up and robbed for their Google Glasses on either 16th or 24th Street BART.
[00:33:09]  And then famously in Molotovs, right on 8th Street, there was a woman who I believe was a Google employee who was confronted by patrons, rightfully by being like, are you filming us?
[00:33:22]  Yeah.
[00:33:23]  And I mean.
[00:33:24]  How can you wear Google Glasses into Molotovs?
[00:33:28]  I don't know.
[00:33:28]  That's crazy.
[00:33:29]  I have a question about the Apple Visions, the pros.
[00:33:34]  I don't like that it's called Apple Vision Pro because that does imply that there is a version called Apple Vision.
[00:33:39]  So I just want to canonically, because we have the iPhone and the iPhone Pro, but okay.
[00:33:47]  If you were wearing those, couldn't someone just like take them?
[00:33:52]  They're strapped to you.
[00:33:54]  Okay, but could they steal your wallet when you had them on and you wouldn't know?
[00:33:58]  It would be much easier to kinetically annihilate somebody who was wearing them because I think there's like a there's like motion blur with when you wear them and so they wouldn't be able to see you as clearly.
[00:34:11]  Okay.
[00:34:12]  But I feel like anything you want to do negative to somebody would be made easier via them wearing the Apple Vision Pro.
[00:34:20]  I don't think that they are going to be adopted in public, but I definitely think that in private, there's going to be a lot of people using them.
[00:34:30]  Yeah, oh, absolutely.
[00:34:32]  I think that we should try them out, by the way.
[00:34:33]  I also think we should try them out.
[00:34:35]  If we can return them, if we can figure out how to do a little video component, I think we should.
[00:34:41]  Oh, like if we can film the podcast.
[00:34:42]  Yeah, okay.
[00:34:43]  We can film so you can see what I'm seeing or whatever.
[00:34:46]  I don't know if that's interesting.
[00:34:47]  I don't know if that would be even interesting.
[00:34:49]  But I think there's something we could do there.
[00:34:51]  Sorry.
[00:34:52]  Anyways, Sergey Brin is, because of this midlife crisis, because he's seen his future so clearly through these Google glasses and seen that there's nothing but changing diapers with his CEO wife, he starts fucking around and their marriage breaks up.
[00:35:06]  They split up, and then she gets together with Alex Rodriguez.
[00:35:09]  A-Rod?
[00:35:10]  A-Rod.
[00:35:11]  Yeah.
[00:35:11]  I mean, who didn't?

=== Regulators and Genetic Testing (07:10) ===

[00:35:13]  Facts.
[00:35:14]  Anyways, back to the actual product at hand.
[00:35:17]  23andMe takes off and they start selling their genetic test in 2007.
[00:35:23]  There's a ton of press about spit parties.
[00:35:26]  Yeah, that's gross.
[00:35:27]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:35:28]  At New York Fashion Week in Davos, which, ladies and gentlemen, if you have ever been a member of a spit party at Davos, please hit the motherfucking tip line.
[00:35:40]  So back then, 23andMe has, their product has changed a bit, which we're going to talk about.
[00:35:45]  But back then, the shit that they were like offering in their results was fucking crazy.
[00:35:51]  So Ivanka Trump famously, she bragged that her test showed that she had a very low genetic risk for obesity.
[00:35:58]  So it used to be they would be like, oh, you probably aren't going to be obese.
[00:36:04]  Oh, you might have a predisposition for this.
[00:36:07]  And like all of these sort of health markers that really you can't get away with saying anymore, they were kind of, they were putting out there from the get-go.
[00:36:17]  But the science doesn't support this kind of shit.
[00:36:20]  I just want to say, like, they like genes are not the most powerful indicator for predicting various diseases.
[00:36:31]  Family history is.
[00:36:33]  We should not confuse that with genetics.
[00:36:35]  Those are two very different things.
[00:36:37]  Though conceptually, I can understand how that gets mixed up in the same way that people mix up genetics and ancestry, which we're going to talk about.
[00:36:46]  But 23andMe had basically kind of switched the game on this and was trying to put out tests that could suggest that possibly all of this stuff could be read by genetics straight up.
[00:37:00]  Yeah, and this kind of got them into some hot water at certain points.
[00:37:04]  I mean, I can kind of think of some immediate concerns I would have.
[00:37:10]  I listened to an interview with Anne.
[00:37:12]  What is the key?
[00:37:14]  And her whole thing, it was about gatekeepers.
[00:37:17]  And this is something that she, this is something that tech people talk about a lot, or like entrepreneur type people talk about a lot.
[00:37:23]  What they mean generally is regulators.
[00:37:25]  Yeah.
[00:37:26]  And the regulators.
[00:37:28]  The government.
[00:37:29]  Yeah.
[00:37:29]  She was being interviewed by Jeffrey Epstein-Powell and LinkedIn co-founder Reid Hoffman.
[00:37:35]  And the problem that she kept running up against was that they were essentially offering medical information that was outside of the providence of doctors, right?
[00:37:49]  So you don't have these results mediated by a doctor or done in a very medical setting.
[00:37:55]  And so you're just given a bunch of results that you have people like Ivanka Trump sort of just interpreting for themselves.
[00:38:02]  It's sort of like getting back the results of a blood test and you kind of just figuring those out yourself.
[00:38:07]  Yes.
[00:38:09]  And one of the biggest parts to highlight here is that the way that they can kind of compare all this stuff, it was based on what they already had in their database, right?
[00:38:19]  Which is like really important to highlight.
[00:38:22]  So the more information they're able to collect and put into their database, the more quote unquote accurate they can say the results are.
[00:38:30]  But all of it is incredibly specious.
[00:38:33]  Yeah.
[00:38:34]  And like there's some, so I was able to, I had a friend give me access to their 23andMe account when we were doing this episode.
[00:38:43]  And funnily enough, you actually get upcharged if you want to look at like more of the health stuff.
[00:38:49]  So it was really only like a bunch of worthless information.
[00:38:52]  But I kind of went over all of these different things that said, like, do you sneeze when you see sunlight?
[00:38:56]  Is this finger longer than this finger or whatever?
[00:38:58]  It's just useful information.
[00:38:59]  And it was just like all wrong.
[00:39:04]  Like it wasn't right.
[00:39:05]  Like 23andMe's results were inaccurate in those cases.
[00:39:07]  So like it kind of seems, I don't know.
[00:39:11]  I'm sure that there are some useful predictors in that stuff.
[00:39:14]  But like, and I, again, none of this was like really medical shit, but like it just seemed kind of like a party trick.
[00:39:20]  It is.
[00:39:21]  I mean, it is.
[00:39:21]  But back then when they were trying to make like kind of crazier claims, the FDA rightfully tried to start to intervene.
[00:39:29]  Because basically, like, if you are offering this under the FDA, you're technically a medical device company.
[00:39:36]  And that means that your S is getting regulated because the FDA regulates such things.
[00:39:41]  Yeah.
[00:39:43]  This whole saga did not go well because I think 23andMe realized like, oh shit, the FDA is going to shut us down because we can't be offering this kind of information to people, one, like you say, without context, which is what a doctor provides, and is able to take a kind of more holistic social history in order to actually understand the kind of context in which this sort of one little marker could possibly be useful in highlighting.
[00:40:11]  Exactly.
[00:40:12]  Right.
[00:40:13]  But also because like it was wrong.
[00:40:18]  It was like wrong.
[00:40:19]  They were giving incorrect information.
[00:40:20]  And so the FDA is like, wait, we need to show, like you need to submit proof that your products are working as you're advertising them.
[00:40:28]  Like, you can't be advertising that you can show people whether or not they're going to become obese sometime in their lifetime by a simple genetic test.
[00:40:36]  You know, this is like, it's so fucking Elizabeth Holmes coded, you know?
[00:40:41]  Yeah, it really is.
[00:40:42]  Minus the fraud, maybe.
[00:40:43]  But 23andMe just ignored the FDA.
[00:40:49]  Yeah, and that's not, listen, I am not going to tell people here to answer their emails because I would make myself a hypocrite.
[00:40:57]  But when the FDA is like, hey, man, like, we really got to talk, we really got to talk, we're thinking of banning you, like, you should probably talk to them.
[00:41:04]  So what they did was they actually cut off contact with the FDA after like years of kind of back and forth.
[00:41:10]  And then, according to Ann, were very surprised when the FDA announced that they were no longer able to sell their product.
[00:41:17]  And in listening to an interview with her, again, with Reid Hoffman, she's talking about like, yeah, like, you know, I was approached by an FDA regulator and like, you know, I had said like, maybe we could turn this into a First Amendment issue that like, you know, we're standing up for the consumer and the consumer just, it's their right to get this stuff and like interpret it however they want.
[00:41:34]  And the FDA was like, that's not going to fly.
[00:41:37]  You know, like if you want to sell your company, maybe you can do that.
[00:41:39]  But like, if you actually want a company, you have to like work with us.
[00:41:42]  And so basically the product went off the market for several years.
[00:41:46]  That's interesting that she said that, the consumer.
[00:41:48]  That just, you know, thinking about this stuff, I made a note in here because I wanted to bring this up.
[00:41:54]  Like the big worry from the FDA was that people were going to take a lot of this, you know, have this information and then take measures into their own hands in which that it would be again, you know, not advisable.
[00:42:07]  Yeah.
[00:42:08]  And I think there's like they had right to worry about that.
[00:42:10]  There's an interesting case where very famously in 2013, Angelina Jolie, she had this very high-profile double mastectomy.
[00:42:18]  My friend Mark did it.
[00:42:20]  But she, you know, she lost her mother to breast cancer.

=== Rise in DTC Health Services (05:58) ===

[00:42:23]  She got a genetic test to see that, you know, if she had the markers for the BRCA mutations, whatever.
[00:42:29]  And she did.
[00:42:30]  And then she wrote this huge op-ed.
[00:42:32]  She was on Vogue.
[00:42:33]  Like there was a whole thing about why she made this choice to have a double mastectomy.
[00:42:39]  And it really was publicizing that this marker was, which it's not an end-all, like be-all, right?
[00:42:47]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:42:48]  But it would really kind of publicize this.
[00:42:50]  And researchers found that basically this caused what they started calling the Angelina effect, where BRCA testing rose 64% in 15 days after she described the result in the surgery of the New York Times, which is really interesting.
[00:43:04]  And they said, you know, BRC testing is recommended for women with a family history of breast or ovarian cancer or other risk factors.
[00:43:11]  But the authors suggest that most of the women who got tested didn't have an elevated risk of cancer, right?
[00:43:16]  So they see this and they're like, well, I'm going to do this too, which is an understandable kind of, but it is like, I don't know.
[00:43:26]  I just think it's interesting because I think this stuff, and in this instance, like this stuff meaning like the DTC health stuff, 23ME stuff, the way we kind of approach this is really emblematic of our approach to health as consumers.
[00:43:41]  Yeah.
[00:43:42]  Right?
[00:43:42]  Like, you know, you see like all of these DT, we were talking about this before we started recording, like the rise of these like DTC health companies like offering everything from, you know, prescription skincare to like erectile dysfunction pills or hair loss pills to Ozembic.
[00:44:00]  Or just like I didn't know you'd do that, but like, or I just have a sinus infection.
[00:44:06]  I don't want to fucking go to the doctor because it takes forever to get, you know, an appointment or I don't have health insurance.
[00:44:13]  I'll pay $40 to go on, you know, a la carte fucking like telehealth usually.
[00:44:21]  Yeah.
[00:44:21]  And it's, and like, aside from that, too, I know that like the rise in, you know, wealth in wealthy circles of like concierge health services is astronomical.
[00:44:35]  Like there is such a huge industry of like really expensive and concierge health services that are outside of traditional health insurance markets that are like really exploding because what people can get in these pools is like not we've we've like decimated our health system so much that it's given rise to all of these other opportunities.
[00:45:03]  It's like so like in this case, like are you talking about like how rich people sometimes just get like MRIs for the hell of it?
[00:45:09]  Well no that well you can still do that like you can just go get an there's like these new companies that are popping up that have like I can't remember it's called Pernovo or something.
[00:45:17]  But is that DTC MRIs?
[00:45:19]  I mean it is right because it's just like a consumer it's it's looking at this stuff as a consumer right but yeah you could I think it's like $1,300 $1,500 or whatever and you can go get an MRI at Kim Kardashian with Hawkingham or something.
[00:45:31]  I'd like to put a couple people in that machine.
[00:45:34]  No, but I mean like there's literally like oh I have this health service I can I have a specific doctor I can call like if my kid gets sick if I have sick I don't have to deal with the traditional like you know going through I'll still have insurance to cover some of this cost but rather than you know I'm paying extra for knowing that I have access to this specific doctor like more and more doctors are charging for this shit too because demand is is out of control.
[00:46:02]  Interesting.
[00:46:03]  I guess like I've always been of the opinion that I hate going to the doctor because well now that I don't drink I guess it's less bad but like they always ask you a bunch of uncomfortable questions that you don't really feel like answering and they always bug me about sleep stuff but I guess that's kind of why I'm going there in the first place.
[00:46:22]  Yeah.
[00:46:22]  I'm in sleepwalking again.
[00:46:23]  It just like, yeah, it just, it seems very emblematic of this whole shift from kind of like, you know, in these, more and more in these like social service markets, moving from like satisfying needs to servicing wants.
[00:46:40]  People want these tests, even if they don't need them.
[00:46:42]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:46:44]  And there are more and more markets that are happy to provide these, whether or not it's useful or even like good information to have.
[00:46:52]  Well, it's also, I think that we've also seen like a rise in, I don't want to call it hypochondria, but there is like something to, I think, the web MD kind of web MDification of how people view health, where like every ache or pain or, you know, upset stomach or whatever might be indicative of like a larger problem.
[00:47:14]  And this sort of paranoia that's fostered, I think, by access to too much information, but too little ability to parse that information in a way that would actually be helpful to you.
[00:47:22]  And I think by sort of flooding the zone, you would naturally give rise to markets like that.
[00:47:28]  Because like, okay, if you have all these, I mean, listen, there's, is it the Hadid sisters and family that has like the chronic lime?
[00:47:38]  Like, I think that there's like, there's, it's like a, there's a spiritual sickness that I think a lot of people have that manifests itself in maybe some physical ways or maybe some psychosomatic, physical, I don't know, you know what I mean.
[00:47:53]  And there is naturally going to be like a rise in services that would fulfill the needs of people who sort of exist in that.
[00:48:01]  But I think just that the way that our society is constructed is we, people are sick, people do get sick, but I think people just kind of naturally feel bad for all sorts of reasons, many of which, the causes of which I probably couldn't even figure out myself.
[00:48:18]  And yeah, I don't know.
[00:48:20]  There's something, it's always struck me as weird.

=== Rare Terms Struck Me As Weird (15:00) ===

[00:48:22]  It's like, obviously people live longer now than they ever have before, but I think there's just a general sense that like everyone's pretty unhealthy.
[00:48:32]  And then so you have like this, like, and we were talking about this before the episode too, for a while.
[00:48:37]  And this is sort of only kind of related to that, like the Huberman style, like obsession with like maxing out your health stats and like, you know, all these different potions and powders and like little tricks and biohacks that you can do to like, I don't know, do some light version of that freak Brian Johnson's like living longer, living forever.
[00:48:59]  By the way, okay, this is even more of a digression, but I do want to say just as a woman, I was like looking into, he was like very excited to talk about his like skincare routine.
[00:49:10]  And I was like looking at it on his website and I'm like, he's not doing anything that it's like real basic Reddit skincare subreddit.
[00:49:19]  Like shit, it's like using red.
[00:49:21]  He's using like Cera V and retinol and getting laser.
[00:49:24]  It's like, yeah, duh.
[00:49:26]  Like, none of this is revolving.
[00:49:27]  He's not, he doesn't have access to like any like new revolutionary, crazy ass, like, like, he's not.
[00:49:34]  He's not doing the blood facial?
[00:49:36]  That's not even crazy.
[00:49:37]  This is old tech.
[00:49:38]  He's like utilizing old tech.
[00:49:39]  The oldest tech of all.
[00:49:41]  I mean, this is not impressive.
[00:49:44]  It's like, oh, you have retinol?
[00:49:46]  Oh, shit.
[00:49:46]  Cool.
[00:49:46]  So does my mom, bitch.
[00:49:48]  I can't wait till that guy gets hit by a car on like his 52nd birthday.
[00:49:51]  Oh, my God.
[00:49:51]  Just like total random death.
[00:49:53]  Yeah, that's obviously what's going to happen because God's regular.
[00:49:56]  I'm not, I don't wish that upon anybody, but I do think he needs to lay off the BBLs laser, not that kind of BBL.
[00:50:04]  Okay, because I would be sick of he has guys, well, that's too off topic, but I do wonder if any guys are.
[00:50:10]  Laser got a BBL.
[00:50:12]  Anyways.
[00:50:13]  So the point is, okay, wait, back to 23andMe, real quick.
[00:50:15]  I just want to highlight this because this is key.
[00:50:17]  Before the FDA shit, 23andMe is telling customers whether or not they carry genetic variations that might potentially raise their risk for like a whole host of different cancers.
[00:50:28]  And it was like giving predictions on how certain medications would work for them.
[00:50:34]  Like just doing shit.
[00:50:35]  They were so out of pocket what they're doing.
[00:50:38]  Yeah.
[00:50:38]  Yeah.
[00:50:38]  Okay.
[00:50:39]  So I just want to make that clear.
[00:50:42]  There are like very specific genetic diseases that are very rare because they're genetic that it would make sense for like testing to be done for, right?
[00:50:53]  Yeah.
[00:50:54]  So there's like one called Bloom Syndrome, which is very like, it's a very rare genetic disorder.
[00:51:01]  It causes like a red rash.
[00:51:03]  It makes you very sun sensitive, but you're like very short.
[00:51:05]  You have like physical.
[00:51:06]  You're short?
[00:51:07]  Yeah, but it causes like physical abnormalities.
[00:51:10]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:51:12]  And it's caused by, you're going to make some, you're going to, I'm already anticipating your joke, so I'm just going to move on right past it.
[00:51:17]  It's caused by a mutation in the BLM gene.
[00:51:20]  I'm not making a joke about that.
[00:51:21]  I don't think that's funny to you.
[00:51:23]  And the predictive value for this test is super high because it is so rare, right?
[00:51:28]  Because the rare is something that you're, okay.
[00:51:31]  So it makes it very easy for 23andMe to predict.
[00:51:34]  And so the FDA is like, great.
[00:51:36]  This is the perfect thing that you can test for because it's easy to predict because it's so rare.
[00:51:42]  But for 23andMe, they're like, well, if it's fucking rare, why do we want to predict?
[00:51:46]  Like, no one wants that because it's so rare.
[00:51:49]  We're not going to get customers.
[00:51:51]  And you see how these two things are not compatible.
[00:51:55]  Yes.
[00:51:55]  Yeah.
[00:51:55]  The technology and the profit drive does not, these do not work together.
[00:52:03]  Well, the thing is, it's funny because the only thing that you could really learn from a genetic test like this is bad news, right?
[00:52:10]  Like, I mean, there's some things that you could learn, like, okay, maybe you have a greater propensity for like more swag or something like that.
[00:52:18]  But like, it's that little spice you're looking for.
[00:52:20]  A little spice you're looking.
[00:52:21]  That's not really, no, I think anybody of any race can have swagger, but maybe you just disagree on that.
[00:52:26]  But I think that, like, really, what you're like scared of is like, you have the gene that's going to give you dick cancer or whatever, like, 100%.
[00:52:34]  And so, like, yeah, there is this kind of like, like, I think there's so many things on the 23andMe website, too, of like how to process this information, like, any bad information you might get from 23andMe.
[00:52:45]  But I do think it's crazy because, like, getting this stuff unmediated by, like, maybe I'm kind of a medical professional, although I do think they offer concierge health services at 23andMe.
[00:52:55]  Of course.
[00:52:55]  Which we can talk about a little bit more later.
[00:52:58]  But really, what people wanted was to learn about their fucking ancestry.
[00:53:02]  Like, that's how it took off.
[00:53:04]  Yes.
[00:53:05]  Because the stuff that would be popular, like the obesity markers, for example, like something like that, like family history and social conditions are like way more instructive than like any kind of genetic marker.
[00:53:21]  And so the predictive value is super low.
[00:53:23]  Like something that would be popular medically, like for medical knowledge, is too low, like predictively speaking.
[00:53:30]  The science is not there.
[00:53:33]  So they had to kind of like figure out a solution and they sort of fell into it with this ancestry stuff.
[00:53:38]  Yeah.
[00:53:39]  And that's like sort of, it's funny because I think that's now what 23andMe is like almost entirely known for, right?
[00:53:46]  Is like finding out that you're like 5% Iberian peninsula or something like that.
[00:53:51]  You know, there's been a lot of criticisms that like sometimes it's maybe the labels that they use for people from certain places are maybe not so accurate to like what they're actually describing.
[00:54:02]  And I think there's a ton of false positives for sub-Saharan Africa, Ashkenazi Jewish, I think it is, and I think Chinese as well.
[00:54:12]  But it really.
[00:54:13]  23andMe is like, you're a Chinese.
[00:54:15]  Chinese.
[00:54:17]  But it's funny because at its core, this is essentially like a cocktail party conversation product, right?
[00:54:26]  Like they want it to be all these different medical breakthrough things, but like, or like, you know, DTC medical stuff and then like research.
[00:54:34]  But like really what it is, is people want to find out if they're like a little bit Scottish or something like that.
[00:54:41]  And again, that kind of brings us back to the conversation with a lot of people finding out maybe they're not as Irish as they were led to believe or like, you know, maybe there's no Native American ancestry there.
[00:54:51]  But like that is sort of the became like the main use of the product.
[00:54:56]  And I was looking at this 23andMe account and there was all this like, you know, information about heritage and shit like this.
[00:55:05]  And all of like the like other medical stuff was like locked behind like another paywall.
[00:55:10]  I think that kind of gets to the core of like why 23andMe is failing as a business, which is you actually only need to give your genetic information to somebody a single time.
[00:55:22]  Yeah, I mean, also, I'm just, I don't understand this shit.
[00:55:25]  Like you said, it's like a party trick.
[00:55:27]  This is like Funko to me.
[00:55:28]  Yeah.
[00:55:29]  This is like middle class Funko.
[00:55:30]  I need a toy shit.
[00:55:32]  And it's fake.
[00:55:33]  Like, what does this tell you about yourself that is useful, interesting, or tells you anything about who you are?
[00:55:41]  Like, it doesn't actually tell you anything.
[00:55:43]  Well, it's funny because there's the way I think of it is this.
[00:55:47]  It's like, yeah, you might find out that like, you know, you're, you're 5% Italian or something like that.
[00:55:53]  But like that doesn't actually tell you anything about like what makes up your core identity as a person, even like your ethnic background or whatever.
[00:56:01]  Like, yeah, what does that even mean to that doesn't even mean anything.
[00:56:04]  Well, I think part of it is a reflection of, and not to be like, too much like you or whatever, but like part of it, I think, is what?
[00:56:11]  That's, that's a way to sound.
[00:56:13]  I think part of it's a reflection of how people want to like know who they are in an era that it's very difficult to know who oneself is.
[00:56:21]  That's how you think I sound?
[00:56:22]  No, it would be way longer than that.
[00:56:25]  But that is, don't get mad at him for laughing.
[00:56:29]  I'm going to get mad at him for laughing.
[00:56:30]  Maybe we should check your DNA for being rude.
[00:56:34]  100% that bitch.
[00:56:35]  100%.
[00:56:37]  But yeah, I think it really does.
[00:56:40]  I think that there is that sort of shattering, especially of, I mean, not to sound like to whatever, not like Liz, but to whatever.
[00:56:47]  There are these sort of like, you know, this lack of, I guess, ethnic enclaves that people used to live in, right?
[00:56:53]  And like these communities that you would like maybe grow up in.
[00:56:56]  Like, you know, I'm from the Irish part of this or whatever.
[00:56:58]  And like everyone's, we're a nation of rootless cosmopolitans.
[00:57:02]  And so I think part of it is people searching for that.
[00:57:05]  But all of these categories have like shifted and morphed historically, socially.
[00:57:10]  Like this shit is so fake and stupid.
[00:57:13]  Like it doesn't tell you anything about anything.
[00:57:16]  No, it doesn't.
[00:57:18]  It's literally the coconut tree.
[00:57:20]  It is like, you fell out of the coconut tree.
[00:57:22]  We just learned, no, you exist in the context of all that came before.
[00:57:26]  Yeah.
[00:57:27]  Like we know this.
[00:57:28]  So it's just like, I don't know.
[00:57:31]  I just, I literally, like, I feel bad because I don't want to be a total fucking 100% that bitch, but I will, which is like, it's like looking for a fun fact on a cereal box.
[00:57:41]  It's like, it's just fucking bullshit.
[00:57:43]  Like, what is it?
[00:57:44]  Oh, I'm 36% Estonian.
[00:57:46]  Okay, should we invite Bel Hadid?
[00:57:48]  Like, what the fuck is this?
[00:57:49]  Yeah.
[00:57:49]  Who cares?
[00:57:50]  Go home.
[00:57:51]  Shut up.
[00:57:52]  It's, you're boring.
[00:57:53]  I'm 100% Estonian.
[00:57:55]  It's just like, that's not a thing.
[00:57:57]  Yeah.
[00:57:57]  I mean, I tend to agree too.
[00:57:59]  I think that like your actual relationship, and again, like, if you're an orphan or whatever, I'm not talking about you.
[00:58:04]  But like, yeah, I think your actual family history, which is surprise, probably fake because most people are because they rely on like half-remembered shit that you heard from your uncle is more real than like a genetic test.
[00:58:19]  But then, of course, you get someone like Elizabeth Warren, in which case I would take the opposite argument.
[00:58:24]  So, I guess it's really what's most convenient for me.
[00:58:26]  But, yeah, I tend to agree with that.
[00:58:29]  I don't think it actually can tell you anything that useful about yourself in real terms or in like a family way.
[00:58:37]  But it's like a fun dinner party conversation that you have a couple weeks after.
[00:58:42]  That's the lameest dinner party ever.
[00:58:43]  Well, I'm not a big dinner party.
[00:58:45]  I don't get it right.
[00:58:46]  One fun thing, though, is it can tell you if you're a killer.
[00:58:49]  It can?
[00:58:49]  Yes, because it was used to remember, it was used to catch up.
[00:58:52]  That's the golden state killer.
[00:58:54]  Yeah, yeah, it's true.
[00:58:55]  So, I guess you would know that, though, but other people wouldn't.
[00:58:58]  Police uploaded DNA collected at a crime scene.
[00:59:01]  And this is actually one of the reasons that 23andMe is like going bust is because of this.
[00:59:07]  The police uploaded DNA collected at a crime scene to a website which was not 23andMe and caught the golden state killer because relatives of his had uploaded their DNA.
[00:59:16]  You don't actually even have to be that closely related.
[00:59:19]  You can be like a third cousin, but if enough third cousins upload their DNA, they can connect it and figure it out from there.
[00:59:25]  That's a huge part of their business model.
[00:59:29]  Who's?
[00:59:29]  23andMe.
[00:59:31]  It's like making all these third-party connections because of how big their database has gotten.
[00:59:36]  So, like, even if I, if my aunt has done 23andMe, then I'm probably in their database somewhere if she's filled out all of these certain things, even though they don't have my DNA, if that makes sense.
[00:59:47]  Well, what police did was they basically were using, they were like signing up for, and this wasn't 23andMe, this is a different website.
[00:59:55]  They were signing up for all these like other kind of genetic database websites, uploading the DNA from these like, you know, these crime scenes, and then connecting it almost like you could with a like just a regular sort of civilian account.
[01:00:10]  That's so funny.
[01:00:11]  I know.
[01:00:12]  So, this is another reason to never put your DNA anywhere.
[01:00:15]  You're kind of snitching.
[01:00:16]  If any of your relatives have done something, you're kind of snitching on them.
[01:00:20]  What do you mean turns?
[01:00:21]  But isn't that such, oh my God, that says something so much about society?
[01:00:24]  Because, like, even if it's not relative, aren't we all just then becoming snitches?
[01:00:29]  That's facts.
[01:00:30]  That's facts.
[01:00:31]  Jason Keebler at 404 Media had a good point about this because the website in which that DNA was uploaded, they did say that it was not against their terms of service to work with law enforcement with, I think, in terms of rape kits and murders.
[01:00:45]  But they changed their terms of service later to include an assault case in Utah, and then a judge ruled that it could be used in a wide variety of cases.
[01:00:55]  So, and this is actually a very important point about all this stuff, is 23andMe makes this big point about their terms of service where you have to opt into certain stuff and you have to allow your, like specifically opt in to allow your stuff to be used for medical research of some kind and your data's anonymized or whatever.
[01:01:15]  But like terms of services, terms of service can be changed after the fact, right?
[01:01:20]  23andMe, they're doing so badly right now, they could be sold to a different company, like the DNA database that the Golden State Killer cops used.
[01:01:29]  It can be sold to a different company, and then they have all that data.
[01:01:33]  And so like, just because you upload your stuff today to a website that's promising this, this, this, and this, there's no takebacks on that.
[01:01:41]  Like, they have your genetic data forever.
[01:01:43]  And like, you know, it's like, I don't want to sound too out there about this or anything, but like, I think reflexively, if your impulse is like, hmm, maybe I shouldn't send my genetic information to this private company based out of Silicon Valley, that is a good instinct to have because they could do any number of things, things which I don't even smart enough to know about with it.
[01:02:05]  And you have basically no recourse.
[01:02:07]  The thing that's funny too is that like, I don't think they even know what to do with it.
[01:02:11]  Like they have, I think so many of these companies for their, I mean, we should say like 23andMe might just totally go under.
[01:02:19]  Their stock is worth like nothing.
[01:02:21]  They can't figure out.
[01:02:22]  59 cents.
[01:02:23]  Excuse me.
[01:02:23]  59 cents, not nothing.
[01:02:25]  But they got to figure out like what to do with this business.
[01:02:30]  And I think a lot of people banked, no pun intended, on the idea of their data bank just being worth so much.
[01:02:39]  It's like, oh, to somebody's going to want this.
[01:02:41]  But it turns out like no, it's almost like no one really knows what to do with it.
[01:02:45]  Well, this is the problem with all these things.
[01:02:47]  Remember, there was that whole thing, like data is the new gold or whatever.
[01:02:51]  Guess what?
[01:02:52]  Most data is fucking worthless.
[01:02:55]  People are just selling to IDA.
[01:02:57]  AGI.
[01:02:58]  Yes.
[01:02:59]  Yes.
[01:02:59]  But like most data is fucking useless.
[01:03:02]  There's too much of it.
[01:03:03]  And there's too much of it.
[01:03:03]  And like this data, to a layman like myself, I'm like, this data should be worth some genetic information.
[01:03:11]  It's not worth as much as they thought it was.
[01:03:13]  Yeah, they did sign, they just signed a big exclusive with a drug company for RD.
[01:03:19]  Yeah.
[01:03:19]  But it was only like $20 million.
[01:03:21]  Not that much.
[01:03:22]  Well, that's the thing is, too.

=== Data's New Worthlessness (04:19) ===

[01:03:23]  23andMe also started up like a drug research division because they're like, we have all this genetic data.
[01:03:29]  Like we should.
[01:03:29]  Yeah, it turns out doing drug research is one, not super profitable until it is.
[01:03:34]  And unless you like want, you have to think long term.
[01:03:37]  You have to create a COVID like strain.
[01:03:39]  Yeah.
[01:03:40]  Leak it.
[01:03:41]  Have your shit ready to rock with that.
[01:03:43]  Exactly.
[01:03:43]  Everyone knows how it went down.
[01:03:44]  Charging on payroll.
[01:03:45]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:03:46]  I mean, no, but seriously, like they want to do all this R ⁇ D, which super regulated, super long-term, not a lot of profit unless you hit, and is like a money sink.
[01:03:58]  Exactly.
[01:03:58]  So I think with in the specific case of 23andMe, I think that they have maybe two drugs in the entire time that they actually really have some promising results for.
[01:04:10]  And none of that at minimum would be like 10 years.
[01:04:13]  And you're not running a company that can afford to be unprofitable.
[01:04:18]  I don't know if they have ever been profitable.
[01:04:20]  It's a tech company, so I would, I would have to check on that.
[01:04:23]  But I know that they weren't for quite a long time.
[01:04:25]  But you don't have another 10 years lead time, especially if business is going so bad.
[01:04:29]  Because like I was saying, the problem with a company like 23andMe is that you do a genetic test a single time.
[01:04:36]  And so their website now has all these different pricing tiers because they're trying to upsell people on more and more shit to do with their genetics, right?
[01:04:44]  So it's like more DTC fucking like telehealth shit because it's unnecessary because they figured out a little too late that like really only a lot of this online business shit is profitable on a subscription basis.
[01:04:58]  Right.
[01:04:58]  Who would subscribe to something like this?
[01:05:00]  I know.
[01:05:01]  We were saying how we were looking, I was looking at the like stock subreddit because these poor, some of it's pretty dark.
[01:05:09]  I mean these poor people are like, do you think it's ever going to come back?
[01:05:12]  But there what, I mean, a lot of people are trying to think of like how this company could turn it around.
[01:05:17]  And I do think it's worth dipping into this one potential solution that user Kirstem posted because I do think it gets to the fucking mindset of that's like at the bottom of some of this shit, which is the subject is Ann, can you just open the API to Tinder, please?
[01:05:42]  Imagine swiping not just faces, but on genetic predispositions, common personality traits, and even the potential for healthy offspring.
[01:05:51]  Creating a hashtag gen match with shared genetic traits, hopefully not too shared genetic traits.
[01:05:57]  Personality compatibility.
[01:05:59]  Don't know what that has to do with.
[01:06:00]  Through genes.
[01:06:01]  With genes.
[01:06:01]  Family planning, so you don't marry family.
[01:06:07]  A bold integration between Tinder and 23andMe.
[01:06:10]  Imagine swiping not just on faces, but yeah, shenared genetic predispositions, et cetera, et cetera.
[01:06:17]  Often genetic data sharing.
[01:06:18]  Users who consent link their 23andMe accounts to Tinder.
[01:06:22]  Their profiles gain a GenMatch section showcasing all of their shared genetic traits.
[01:06:28]  Enhanced matching algorithm.
[01:06:31]  There would be premium genetic spark features.
[01:06:33]  Users pay a small fee to unlock detailed gen match reports for specific matches.
[01:06:38]  Benefits, deeper connections, informed choices, personalized experience, increased engagement.
[01:06:45]  And 23andMe can monetize through data licensing and genetics spark revenue.
[01:06:50]  All this kind of stuff, right?
[01:06:53]  That's how you got Gattaca.
[01:06:55]  It is.
[01:06:55]  And there was like when the original poster, OP, at the end, he says, edit, I guess I learned lots.
[01:07:04]  And then it links to genome.gov, a fact sheet, eugenics and scientific racism.
[01:07:11]  But I think that like, you know, I'm joking.
[01:07:14]  I just, I did think that this post was very funny and very like, you know, entry-level first-year business school.
[01:07:21]  Like, what if we just start selling body parts?
[01:07:25]  You know, kind of brained it now leader of Argentina is thinking.
[01:07:32]  But it does show like what this, when you put this kind of information and try to monetize it in a marketplace, this makes sense.
[01:07:41]  This is where this goes, right?

=== Tip Line Episode Soon! (03:51) ===

[01:07:43]  Like the way for this to be profitable and to continue to be, you know, useful, like at bottom, it has some really, really dark, you know, it has a really, really dark base at the bottom.
[01:07:57]  Yeah, I agree.
[01:07:58]  I mean, it's so funny because, you know, 23andMe's entire, obviously it's a private company, like its entire purpose is to serve a market and make a profit from that.
[01:08:10]  But you do run up against these very real roadblocks and you kind of just have to keep and keep and keep expanding.
[01:08:17]  We were talking about this the other day about, what was it, Instant Pot?
[01:08:20]  And that's kind of like the big kind of case study.
[01:08:26]  I don't know, case study, but like this big example from last year a couple of years ago about this company that made like a great product that just like kept trying to expand and like make other things and make more money, but like it couldn't really because it made one really good product that you need to buy once.
[01:08:42]  Yeah.
[01:08:43]  23andMe has the disadvantage of making one kind of novelty product that you only need to buy once.
[01:08:49]  And so it's less useful than an Instapot and will probably provide you significantly less time enjoyed with product.
[01:08:59]  But, yeah, it's just, it's so fucking goofy to me.
[01:09:14]  The Instapod is a great example of, like, that would have fucking killed in, like, the late 60s, early 70s, like, before we hit post-Fortis, like, opening up of all kind of, kind of the changing nature of how commodities were produced.
[01:09:31]  where it was like you used to just, we used to produce the things that you needed and you had that one thing.
[01:09:36]  And then they realized that that would hit a ceiling for production and markets.
[01:09:40]  And so commodity production had to change.
[01:09:43]  And that's how, you know, when I was saying that like markets opening up into servicing wants and desires rather than like providing for needs.
[01:09:54]  Yeah.
[01:09:55]  That's like a perfect example.
[01:09:57]  Just too late to the party.
[01:09:58]  Too late to the motherfucking party.
[01:10:00]  But you know who's not late?
[01:10:01]  Too late to the party, listener?
[01:10:03]  You.
[01:10:05]  Our tip line is now open.
[01:10:08]  We announced this on the show a couple of days ago.
[01:10:11]  We are going to be doing a tip line episode very soon, but the tip line is permanently open now.
[01:10:18]  Now, if only I could keep talking until I could figure out how to figure out the phone number.
[01:10:23]  Here it is.
[01:10:25]  I love that you do that instead of just pausing and like knowing that our lovely producer will cut the pause.
[01:10:31]  I appreciate it.
[01:10:33]  Sorry, I'm helping his ass out.
[01:10:35]  But also because I'm acting like this is live radio and I can't leave a second of dead air.
[01:10:40]  That phone number is 646-801-1129.
[01:10:48]  That's 646-801-1129.
[01:10:53]  Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any questions, nope, no questions.
[01:10:57]  Do not ask us questions on that.
[01:10:58]  They ask me a question.
[01:10:59]  They could ask, you can ask Liz question.
[01:11:01]  Well, you could ask, I don't want people asking like questions on it.
[01:11:05]  What do you mean?
[01:11:06]  Because it's like, I'm not going to answer them.
[01:11:07]  So you're just asking a question.
[01:11:09]  They can do whatever they want.
[01:11:10]  We are the ones that have to deal with it.
[01:11:12]  You cannot do whatever you want on this phone number.
[01:11:14]  Do not listen.
[01:11:14]  You can't do whatever you want on this phone number.
[01:11:17]  You can ask me a question.
[01:11:18]  You can ask Liz a question.
[01:11:19]  You can ask maybe for some of you.
[01:11:22]  You can't ask Brace a question.
[01:11:22]  He already said no.
[01:11:23]  I don't want a question.
[01:11:24]  I'm like, you can ask first if you need some advice or something.
[01:11:27]  But really, if you have any tips, any leads, or any goofy stuff, send it over.

=== Ask Liz Questions (01:03) ===

[01:11:35]  I've already been down a couple rabbit holes, so I appreciate that.
[01:11:37]  We've got a lot of very, frankly, insane voice messages left on this number.
[01:11:43]  Yeah.
[01:11:43]  Also, if you used to be someone who called into Art Bell's show, hit our tip line.
[01:11:49]  I'd like to hear from you.
[01:11:50]  I'd like to see what you're up to nowadays.
[01:11:52]  Hit the tip line.
[01:11:52]  I'd like to see, you know, where your mind's at.
[01:11:56]  Once again, that number is 646-801-1129.
[01:12:03]  And with that being said, I'm going to go spit in a cup and then drink it right up.
[01:12:09]  My name is Brace Belden.
[01:12:11]  I'm Liz.
[01:12:11]  We are, of course, joined by producer Yam Chomsky, and this has been Trunon.
[01:12:16]  We'll see you next time.
[01:12:18]  Bye.
[01:12:37]  Come out.
[01:12:38]  Come out.