True Anon Truth Feed - Episode 215: Marching Into Madness
Aired: 2022-03-21
Duration: 01:06:40


=== Why We Leave Heels (01:58) ===

[00:00:00]  You know, I'm gonna do I'm gonna pop my shoes off.
[00:00:03]  Excuse me?
[00:00:04]  Yeah, don't you're excused.
[00:00:05]  You're excused.
[00:00:06]  What are those bombas?
[00:00:07]  Yeah, they're bomba socks.
[00:00:09]  That's cute.
[00:00:09]  Yeah, be careful.
[00:00:10]  You might get a bomba in the mail if you continue belittling me like this.
[00:00:14]  I'm taking my boots off right here because if I don't, then I'll get so in the groove of podcasting that I'll tap my little feet on the ground, clicking and clacking.
[00:00:22]  It'll sound like we got a whole fucking what heel you're working with there.
[00:00:25]  What do you mean?
[00:00:26]  What heel am I working with?
[00:00:26]  I'm wearing pumps, Liz.
[00:00:29]  Yeah, what do you mean what?
[00:00:30]  Yes.
[00:00:30]  An inch and a half, two inches you got there?
[00:00:32]  I wear four inch heels.
[00:01:00]  Hi, my name is Bryce.
[00:01:01]  Hi, Brace.
[00:01:02]  Hi, Liz.
[00:01:03]  How you doing?
[00:01:04]  First of all, wait, let's get it out of the way.
[00:01:06]  I'm Liz.
[00:01:06]  We are, of course, joined by producer Young Chomsky in the room.
[00:01:09]  We're all three in the room together.
[00:01:11]  We're in the room together.
[00:01:12]  Yeah, there's a bunch of women here, too.
[00:01:15]  That only Brace can see because he's a little bit of a skin.
[00:01:16]  Yeah, no, because they're so skinny.
[00:01:19]  So they're so skinny.
[00:01:22]  Remember Slender Man?
[00:01:24]  Yeah, I remember Slender Man.
[00:01:26]  I thought it was an unrealistic body image for guys.
[00:01:29]  You know, not all.
[00:01:30]  How about my whole thing?
[00:01:31]  Slender man.
[00:01:32]  Why don't we get some slender women up in here?
[00:01:34]  That's it.
[00:01:35]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:01:36]  Girls like you do, boo though.
[00:01:37]  But you know what?
[00:01:39]  Yeah, cool.
[00:01:41]  I'm sorry.
[00:01:41]  Oh, no, Stop talking, Slender.
[00:01:43]  No, no, girls like that.
[00:01:45]  Stop talking.
[00:01:46]  Well, I want.
[00:01:47]  Hello, Brace.
[00:01:47]  Hi.
[00:01:48]  Hello.
[00:01:48]  It's nice to see you.
[00:01:49]  I see people who are judgmental.
[00:01:51]  Who are girls like me?
[00:01:52]  What are judgmental?
[00:01:53]  Please describe women like me.
[00:01:55]  First of all, I said girls, not women.
[00:01:57]  I was being sexist.

=== A Little Hot Pick (08:32) ===

[00:01:58]  I don't want to get to get lost in it.
[00:01:59]  Yeah, that's not the only sexist part of that.
[00:02:01]  Yeah, well, to me, it is.
[00:02:02]  I meant women like you.
[00:02:04]  Oh.
[00:02:04]  Who won't?
[00:02:05]  Do you mean girls or women?
[00:02:06]  Who won't?
[00:02:06]  I mean, well, let's just hear me out.
[00:02:09]  Okay, women who do what's going on.
[00:02:12]  Because it's hot in here and because I'm surrounded by beautiful women, including you.
[00:02:17]  Welcome, everyone.
[00:02:18]  This is Jerona.
[00:02:19]  Hello.
[00:02:20]  We are here together though.
[00:02:21]  Yes, we are.
[00:02:22]  That's nice.
[00:02:22]  It is.
[00:02:23]  It is nice.
[00:02:23]  It is warm in here.
[00:02:24]  I am sweating.
[00:02:26]  My feet are out in the bare air.
[00:02:29]  And we're doing a little episode here.
[00:02:31]  Bare air.
[00:02:32]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:02:33]  Well, it's a little bit, I'm rapping today.
[00:02:35]  So, yeah, we are doing an episode about something that's really there's some tension in the room today.
[00:02:42]  Listen, Brace.
[00:02:43]  Yeah.
[00:02:43]  You're a gambling man.
[00:02:44]  Oh, am I?
[00:02:46]  Yes.
[00:02:46]  You like to gamble.
[00:02:47]  I love to gamble.
[00:02:48]  What do you say about gambling?
[00:02:51]  Well, there's a few things I say about gambling.
[00:02:53]  First of all, the player always wins.
[00:02:55]  This is not true.
[00:02:56]  No, because you can't always measure success and happiness and money.
[00:03:01]  You measure it in time spent.
[00:03:04]  Yeah, you agree with the casitos on that one.
[00:03:06]  Yes, yes.
[00:03:07]  And life's, and my other thing is, and this, I do hold true to this.
[00:03:11]  Life's a gamble and you always win.
[00:03:15]  I've since read some data that somewhat contradicts this position.
[00:03:19]  We are talking about gambling today.
[00:03:22]  But before we get into that, I'm going to hit everyone with a little hook.
[00:03:27]  This is our little anchor for the episode, which is that we are now entering, as of, I think, last night, but really officially today.
[00:03:34]  She's going to be some astrology bullshit.
[00:03:36]  It's March Madness.
[00:03:37]  Okay, yeah.
[00:03:38]  The moons in March or whatever.
[00:03:41]  No, it's March Madness.
[00:03:42]  First, do you know what March Madness is?
[00:03:43]  It's the thing that women do to make, like, to be like, that's why we're getting fights.
[00:03:48]  No, March Madness is a sports ball tourney.
[00:03:52]  Attorney.
[00:03:52]  I'll be real with you.
[00:03:53]  I am dimly aware of March Madness is.
[00:03:56]  I know this about March Madness.
[00:03:58]  There's basketball.
[00:03:59]  Yes.
[00:04:00]  Sort of.
[00:04:01]  I'm going to put people in mad at me for this.
[00:04:02]  I'm putting basketball in quotes.
[00:04:04]  Okay.
[00:04:04]  Well, I'm quoting you.
[00:04:06]  Basketball, they play it in a series of tournaments.
[00:04:10]  It's a tourney.
[00:04:11]  Yeah, tourney tournament.
[00:04:13]  Well, it's a short for tournament.
[00:04:14]  Yeah.
[00:04:15]  And there's some kind of bracket that people participate in at work.
[00:04:18]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:04:19]  Beyond that, that's kind of all you got to know.
[00:04:22]  My interests lie elsewhere.
[00:04:23]  Yeah, it's a big tournament, single elimination games.
[00:04:27]  I can't even remember how many teams are involved.
[00:04:28]  It's got to be, I don't know, 68 teams.
[00:04:32]  There's 68 teams, I think.
[00:04:35]  There's a lot of teams.
[00:04:37]  This is not professional basketball.
[00:04:39]  No, it's college.
[00:04:40]  Okay.
[00:04:41]  Maybe it's not that many.
[00:04:42]  I can't remember how many.
[00:04:43]  Yeah.
[00:04:43]  But it's like, you know, a bunch of rounds.
[00:04:44]  Then you finally get to, you know, like you said, it's the bracket.
[00:04:47]  So everyone knows the bracket.
[00:04:49]  Tournament round, single elimination.
[00:04:51]  Boop, All the way to the top.
[00:04:53]  Then you get the final four.
[00:04:55]  And then, you know, the two.
[00:04:56]  Would you say it's thin at the end?
[00:04:57]  To thin out the competition.
[00:04:59]  Yeah.
[00:05:01]  I don't really pay attention to March Madness until like the final four, basically.
[00:05:05]  And then I, you know, have wild opinions about who should win based on really nothing.
[00:05:12]  But I will say this.
[00:05:14]  I'm going to give one little hot pick.
[00:05:15]  Liz's hot pick for the tourney.
[00:05:19]  I want to be clear, not a joke.
[00:05:20]  Liz did not tell me she was giving out gambling picks on our gambling game.
[00:05:24]  Oh, shit.
[00:05:25]  Yeah.
[00:05:25]  Wait, do we have to do one of the little disclaimers?
[00:05:28]  We, listen, some of us on this podcast are professional gamblers.
[00:05:32]  Some of us do wear the black hat tipped down over the bridge of our nose and sit at the blackjack table with two bimbos surrounding them.
[00:05:42]  You're in a role today with Liz.
[00:05:44]  Losing fortunes.
[00:05:45]  Their fortune.
[00:05:47]  Borrowing money from women.
[00:05:50]  I don't have them there.
[00:05:51]  I don't have them there as long as they're arm candy.
[00:05:53]  Have them them as there's people I ask to give me money.
[00:05:58]  And so we are professional gamblers.
[00:06:02]  So this is a sure, this is a true non-surefire 100%.
[00:06:05]  I think you're confusing the disclaimer that you're supposed to give with the one about stock advice.
[00:06:11]  Okay.
[00:06:12]  Financial advice.
[00:06:13]  No, no, this is what we're supposed to say: is that like gambling is very serious.
[00:06:17]  And if you have a problem, here's a hotline that you can call.
[00:06:20]  Call, DM me, and I will give you Young Chompsy's cell phone number.
[00:06:25]  If you have a problem gambling, just tell him about it.
[00:06:27]  Okay.
[00:06:28]  Here's my one little pick.
[00:06:29]  I'm taking the jackrabbits.
[00:06:32]  What?
[00:06:34]  Is that a team?
[00:06:35]  Yes.
[00:06:36]  South Dakota.
[00:06:37]  We were just talking about outside, and I was saying South Dakota is like having a moment right now.
[00:06:41]  No, it's not.
[00:06:42]  Yes, it is.
[00:06:43]  It's not.
[00:06:44]  It is.
[00:06:44]  South Dakota is shopping.
[00:06:45]  I'm not lying.
[00:06:46]  South Dakota isn't having a moment.
[00:06:48]  It is.
[00:06:48]  It's having a moment.
[00:06:49]  Anyway, so I, first of all, this is why.
[00:06:53]  One, South Dakota, it's having a moment.
[00:06:56]  Also, it's the better Dakota.
[00:06:57]  Is that a teleology?
[00:06:58]  What's the thing where you say something because it's something that?
[00:07:00]  That's a tautology.
[00:07:01]  And no.
[00:07:02]  And two, who doesn't like a jackrabbit?
[00:07:06]  Me?
[00:07:07]  It's like a long boy, long rabbit.
[00:07:09]  Jackrabbit's great.
[00:07:10]  Too lean.
[00:07:11]  So it is a lean.
[00:07:13]  Yes, that is a lean.
[00:07:14]  It's a lean game.
[00:07:17]  But anyway, they're playing a team.
[00:07:19]  I'm taking them for the first round.
[00:07:20]  That's what I'm saying.
[00:07:21]  That's my one little hot pick because they're playing something called the Providence Friars.
[00:07:27]  Tauncher type.
[00:07:28]  Well, no, they have like a.
[00:07:29]  They're good at the rabbit.
[00:07:30]  I know who they are.
[00:07:31]  They have this cool thing where they just shave the middle of their heads and have that kind of like cut.
[00:07:37]  Yeah.
[00:07:38]  I'm picking whichever team is the skinniest players.
[00:07:41]  Some bean poles.
[00:07:42]  Well, they're college boys.
[00:07:43]  Yeah.
[00:07:44]  I'm picking the Marfa Bean Poles.
[00:07:46]  And let me tell you, these guys, you've never seen anything like it.
[00:07:49]  Okay, why are we talking about this?
[00:07:50]  Because we just got a new sponsorship.
[00:07:52]  I'm really excited to present this to you.
[00:07:54]  A company called FanDuel reached out to me last week, and you know how much I love doing.
[00:07:59]  You might as well call me a German in motherfucking college in 1930 because I'm out there with the rapier swish swish swish.
[00:08:07]  And we are sponsored by FanDuel.
[00:08:08]  These are Liz's college picks.
[00:08:10]  And that is the episode.
[00:08:11]  Thank you very much.
[00:08:12]  No, but we are talking about sports betting.
[00:08:16]  Yes, we are.
[00:08:17]  Because it seems like everyone's doing it.
[00:08:19]  Yeah.
[00:08:20]  It's everywhere today.
[00:08:21]  Did you watch the Super Bowl, by the way?
[00:08:23]  I feel like we talked about this, and I was surprised you didn't watch it.
[00:08:26]  I don't think I've ever watched the Super Bowl.
[00:08:27]  What?
[00:08:28]  I want to be, listen, I want to be clear here about like sports.
[00:08:30]  I don't look down on people.
[00:08:31]  I do look down on people who watch sports.
[00:08:33]  That's because insanely stupid.
[00:08:35]  I look down on most people because I like thinking.
[00:08:38]  Because you're very tall.
[00:08:38]  No, because I'm like a narcissist.
[00:08:42]  But yeah, and I'm also, you know, bean pole, Marfa Beanpole type tall.
[00:08:48]  But no, I just don't like sports.
[00:08:51]  You know, I like other things like complaining and having stomach aches and like trying to like take off my glasses to read and stuff.
[00:09:01]  Like that's like, that's kind of what I'm into.
[00:09:03]  Well, I did watch a Super Bowl because I rock.
[00:09:07]  And I could not believe the amount of advertising for like our sponsor, FanDuel or DraftKings or the amount of sports book.
[00:09:19]  Yeah, betting that was like the entire game was just inundated with.
[00:09:25]  And it was like fucking psycho.
[00:09:27]  Yeah, I mean, that's, I do know that, right?
[00:09:30]  Because while I may not be interested in sports games, I am interested in a different kind of gaming.
[00:09:35]  And no, I'm not talking about Sonic the Hedgehog.
[00:09:38]  I literally do love gambling.
[00:09:40]  And I do follow gambling in the larger sense, not necessarily the individual players.
[00:09:47]  But I know this.
[00:09:48]  I know that gambling on this year's Super Bowl was the most gambling done on probably any sports event in history.
[00:09:55]  Yeah, because basically there's been a massive push to legalize sports gambling in a ton of different states over the past, what, five years?
[00:10:04]  Yeah, four or five years.
[00:10:06]  It really became, well, let's start.
[00:10:09]  Let's actually back up a little bit to the early 2000s.
[00:10:12]  Ooh.
[00:10:13]  I love the trend.
[00:10:14]  Also, having a moment, trending, like our friends in South Dakota.
[00:10:19]  I agree, although I'm lying because I don't actually really know what you're referring to.
[00:10:24]  But I will say Cobra Snake is back, and I got more to tell you about that after we finish recording here.
[00:10:29]  You know some gas?

=== Online Poker and Fantasy Teams (03:38) ===

[00:10:30]  Not gas.
[00:10:31]  It's just the air.
[00:10:36]  But so I'm sure many of you remember who are my age, which is 22 years old, that back in high school in like 2006, do you remember guys who were like, yeah, I think I'd become a professional online poker player?
[00:10:50]  You guys know what I'm talking about, right?
[00:10:51]  Yeah.
[00:10:53]  Exactly.
[00:10:53]  Yeah, I know some.
[00:10:54]  Yeah, I know someone.
[00:10:55]  I knew a lot of people who were, like, going to turn pro.
[00:10:58]  I'm like, where do you— They just bought sunglasses and said that.
[00:11:01]  Yeah.
[00:11:01]  Yeah.
[00:11:02]  I will say it was, I still do this, but this was the prime time of people wearing sunglasses while using the computer.
[00:11:07]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:08]  That was a great idea.
[00:11:09]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:11:10]  But online poker got really big in the early 2000s.
[00:11:14]  I think it was technically, they started making legislation to ban it in 2006, but it was basically fully banned by 2011, right?
[00:11:21]  And this is a huge industry.
[00:11:23]  Now, some of the major players from this industry are mid players.
[00:11:26]  Some players from this industry and players in more way than one.
[00:11:29]  I'm not talking about...
[00:11:30]  You like saying players too much.
[00:11:31]  Well, they are.
[00:11:32]  I mean, there's a lot of gaming going on here, but they're also titans of the industry.
[00:11:36]  So it works both ways.
[00:11:38]  They were like, all right, the government, the feds, the federales made online poker and gaming in general illegal.
[00:11:47]  I wish they had made all kinds of online gaming illegal.
[00:11:50]  But they did carve out under pressure from the major leagues fantasy draft.
[00:11:56]  Yeah.
[00:11:57]  Well, and I, you know, I do play fantasy, so I know all about this.
[00:12:00]  And I'm going to have you explain that in a second because I am only aware of it because you get really mad a couple of times a year, I feel like, about it.
[00:12:08]  And I do tune that out, but I hear you and I, well, I don't hear you, but I hear that you're talking and I see you talking and I feel you.
[00:12:18]  But they carve that out because the government does, because that's technically a game of skill.
[00:12:24]  It is.
[00:12:24]  Thank you very much.
[00:12:25]  It is a game of skill.
[00:12:26]  I agree.
[00:12:27]  Well, what is it?
[00:12:28]  Fantasy?
[00:12:29]  Yeah.
[00:12:29]  So you have a league.
[00:12:30]  Well, so I play NBA fantasy.
[00:12:31]  So you can have a fantasy team in any league.
[00:12:34]  It's very big with football, very big with basketball.
[00:12:37]  I'm sure there's people that play fantasy baseball.
[00:12:39]  There definitely are.
[00:12:40]  My friend Max plays it.
[00:12:41]  So I'm picturing it's like people are like, what if the elves were on the Warriors?
[00:12:47]  No.
[00:12:47]  It's more like, what if I made my fan, my team, which by the way, my fantasy team is called Team Cutie Sweetie.
[00:12:55]  And it's just, you have a draft and you pick all the players that you would want on your team.
[00:13:00]  And then you compete based on stats against other fantasy teams in your league, you know, to win the championship.
[00:13:11]  Okay.
[00:13:11]  And so like the players in your team, like they get the stats that they're actually, the real life players get, right?
[00:13:18]  So Steph goes for 50 points or whatever, then I rack up 50 points for the week and my week totals or whatever, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:13:25]  And you bet on this?
[00:13:27]  Well, I don't.
[00:13:28]  Yeah.
[00:13:28]  So we don't play.
[00:13:30]  You can, and that's a big, that's, I think most people do, but I'm a baby and my team is, again, named Team Cutie Sweetie.
[00:13:37]  So I think you can get the vibe.
[00:13:38]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:13:39]  Also, interesting, all Turkish, too, which I found, I didn't know there was that many of them playing in the game.
[00:13:45]  I'm just every player I have is actually Inez Freedom.
[00:13:49]  Yes.
[00:13:50]  Yeah, you can just, yeah, you can, you can just multiply the guy.
[00:13:52]  Well, they started doing daily fantasy sports because from what I understand is fantasy is usually something you track along the season, right?
[00:14:00]  But this was like you make a new pick essentially every day and then you enter into this kind of contest and you can win and you know, you know, it's like when you know win the day or whatever.
[00:14:08]  Yeah.

=== Series of Court Cases (04:53) ===

[00:14:09]  You know, this, this was huge.
[00:14:11]  I remember when this like really hit and like I started seeing advertisements everywhere like around 2015, you know, well, earlier than that, but that was when I really started to notice it.
[00:14:19]  There was a big backlash against it.
[00:14:21]  I remember this in 2016 because an employee from DraftKings, which is one of the two big ones, or at the time, one of the two big ones, was caught basically.
[00:14:31]  I mean, I don't think it was ever proven, but like clearly using his knowledge that he had from working at DraftKings to bet at FanDuel, which is the other big daily fantasy sportsider trading.
[00:14:44]  Won over $350,000 in a single day.
[00:14:47]  And that was, there was sort of a big backlash.
[00:14:49]  There was some moves to maybe ban daily DFS, as they call it in the industry.
[00:14:54]  And I think it did get banned in a handful of states.
[00:14:57]  But really, what a lot of these companies, DraftKings and FanDuel, were kind of banking on is a little-known series of court cases.
[00:15:05]  Well, actually, not that little known, but little known to me at the time, a series of court cases that were coming out of the great state of New Jersey to overturn the federal gambling ban.
[00:15:14]  Sports gambling ban.
[00:15:16]  Yeah, this was a big, I mean, when we say like, you know, they were, they were betting on these, they were betting big because the lobbying efforts.
[00:15:22]  He's smiling because you're like, they're betting big.
[00:15:26]  Oh, yeah.
[00:15:26]  We're going to run through with these metaphors and yeah, it's going to be a long power episode.
[00:15:33]  Sometimes, no, there was a lot of money behind these lobbying efforts because it's a huge industry.
[00:15:40]  Yeah.
[00:15:40]  It's potentially opening up.
[00:15:43]  Yeah.
[00:15:43]  And so the Supreme Court struck down, I think, in 1992 law essentially federally banning sports gambling or sports betting.
[00:15:53]  The Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act.
[00:15:55]  The idea behind that law was basically to protect the sanctity of sports from gambling kind of like getting in the middle of it.
[00:16:05]  There was a big thing in the 80s and 90s.
[00:16:07]  I mean, you probably remember about people getting worried about gambling corrupting sports, players gambling and all of that kind of stuff.
[00:16:16]  And so it was really more kind of focused on that.
[00:16:18]  Michael Jordan getting his father killed.
[00:16:21]  Yeah, we talked about that on podcasts.
[00:16:22]  Yeah, I mean, to be clear, like the only sport I really have any kind of familiarity with on a personal level is boxing, as I worked in boxing for a while.
[00:16:31]  And let me tell you, that is a sport that is the most fixed shit in the world.
[00:16:36]  And it's also probably the most associated with gambling until maybe now, but certainly was.
[00:16:42]  Yeah, and so New Jersey had actually been exempted from the original 1992 Act, but they didn't kind of get their shit together.
[00:16:49]  And so it ended up being banned there as well.
[00:16:52]  Voters voted to repeal it.
[00:16:53]  I think in 2014, there was a series of court cases.
[00:16:56]  And finally, one was heard by the Supreme Court.
[00:16:58]  And it was eventually overturned in 2018.
[00:17:00]  Now, this didn't make gambling legal everywhere, but it made it so that states could set their own laws.
[00:17:05]  Yeah, that was a big surprise to fellow SCOTUS watchers out there.
[00:17:09]  That seems like a very podcast thing.
[00:17:10]  You were watching SCOTUS?
[00:17:11]  No, but it sounded like a thing that people say.
[00:17:13]  Yeah.
[00:17:15]  Yeah, but that's true.
[00:17:16]  You know what I mean?
[00:17:16]  Yeah, no, totally.
[00:17:18]  No, I remember when that repeal happened, everyone was kind of shocked.
[00:17:22]  I think it was Alito who gave the majority opinion.
[00:17:25]  And it was sort of like, wait, are you seriously?
[00:17:27]  And, you know, they just do what they do, which is they leaned in heavily into states' rights.
[00:17:32]  Interesting that they had an Italian could do that.
[00:17:37]  Yeah, gambling's legal now.
[00:17:42]  Yeah, it is.
[00:17:43]  It became, it spread.
[00:17:46]  I'm trying to think of what spreads really quickly.
[00:17:49]  It spread like HPV throughout the state.
[00:17:53]  That's what you went with?
[00:17:55]  Yeah, because to me it was something I didn't really pay attention to.
[00:17:57]  And then once I got it, it was like, this isn't a big deal.
[00:18:00]  I can't believe you didn't try to do like a gambling spread.
[00:18:02]  Oh, yeah.
[00:18:03]  It spread like the cards of a blackjack dealer.
[00:18:08]  It spread like COVID-19.
[00:18:10]  So it killed my grandfather died from gambling around this time.
[00:18:16]  No, but it started getting legalized state by state.
[00:18:19]  And really, I think it's, it's, what, it's four years later.
[00:18:22]  And I think it's legal in 30 states now.
[00:18:25]  Something close to that with 20, I think 20 or so of them having specific laws regarding mobile and app-based sports betting.
[00:18:34]  And the biggest, the latest big one was New York, baby.
[00:18:37]  It was legalized in like early January.
[00:18:40]  Yeah, just like the first week of January.
[00:18:42]  And in the, in the first six weeks since New York legalized it, $2.5 billion have been wagered with $500 million alone on the Super Bowl itself.
[00:18:54]  That's crazy.
[00:18:55]  Yeah, they're estimating it brought in about $80 million in tax revenue.
[00:18:59]  Yeah, and that's, well, we're going to get to that in a second.

=== Donkey of the Day (03:05) ===

[00:19:02]  Yeah.
[00:19:03]  So they're expecting a lot of people looking at, because March Madness is basically like the second biggest betting event to the Super Bowl.
[00:19:10]  Yeah.
[00:19:11]  And so they're expecting about $3.1 billion to be wagered on March Madness alone, which is a lot of fucking money.
[00:19:19]  That's a lot of, I mean, that's actually not that much money, honestly.
[00:19:23]  But like, I can see how?
[00:19:25]  Yeah.
[00:19:25]  Well, it's subjective.
[00:19:27]  I don't bet subjectively anymore because of my situation there, where I bet if the chick from Licorice Pizza would actually have sex with that guy in real life and I lost that and it was just not.
[00:19:43]  I don't, oh my god.
[00:19:44]  Yeah, anyways.
[00:19:45]  So that's that's.
[00:19:46]  That's it for me.
[00:19:47]  But the the, the next big state that they're pushing for, is right here in California.
[00:19:53]  Yeah, you're your state, baby.
[00:19:54]  Yeah California, this is gonna be a big, big push.
[00:19:56]  There's a lot of Indian casinos yeah, in California.
[00:20:00]  Yes, it's on the ballot for November.
[00:20:02]  Some of them have like kind of rigged tables honestly, and like maybe, like they should check them out because they take money from people who, like maybe don't really know what they're getting.
[00:20:11]  Anyways, but yeah, it's going to be on the it is going to be on the ballot.
[00:20:15]  There is on this November.
[00:20:17]  I believe the initiative, I think there's a few, but one of them is called Californians for Solutions to Mental Health and Homelessness.
[00:20:25]  Now, I know not every state does ballot measures.
[00:20:27]  I don't think every state does ballot measures.
[00:20:30]  But in California, they're always named shit like this.
[00:20:34]  Like Californians for like children.
[00:20:37]  Right, And then it's like about opening like another New Fly Zone ballot initiative naming it.
[00:20:43]  Exactly.
[00:20:43]  No, closing the skies.
[00:20:44]  Oh, closing the skies.
[00:20:46]  But it's backed by literally every single big online gambling company and supported by mayor of Oakland Libby Schaff.
[00:20:55]  Oh, God.
[00:20:56]  Yes, who is our donkey of the day today?
[00:21:03]  You love the Donkey of the Day.
[00:21:04]  Here's the thing.
[00:21:05]  My quick thing, I feel like we should take Donkey of the Day.
[00:21:08]  Whose is that?
[00:21:10]  Fuck, who's it's a breakfast club, right?
[00:21:12]  I think Breakfast Club does Donkey of the Day.
[00:21:14]  Yeah.
[00:21:15]  I don't, you know, I'm not going to lie.
[00:21:16]  Don't listen to radio.
[00:21:17]  Well, you know, I was on Breakfast Club before we did that.
[00:21:19]  No, you weren't.
[00:21:20]  Yeah, I was.
[00:21:21]  Because I'm a soulful white boy.
[00:21:25]  Do you want to bet?
[00:21:26]  I'm not a soul boy.
[00:21:27]  Do you think you want to bet?
[00:21:27]  I'm not a soulful white boy.
[00:21:29]  Yeah, I do.
[00:21:52]  So you might be like, well, me cousin, me cousin over there in Shropshire, he bets on the...
[00:21:57]  He bets on the fucking Shropshire pedophiles every weekend when they play a little sake.
[00:22:05]  And he ain't got a problem.
[00:22:06]  He just spends a quid here there.

=== Prop Bet Wagers (09:47) ===

[00:22:08]  You know, maybe at the price of a copper.
[00:22:11]  And yes, you're right.
[00:22:12]  Sports betting is legal in much of, I think, several places in Europe.
[00:22:16]  I know Spain.
[00:22:16]  Yeah.
[00:22:17]  Or I think Spain.
[00:22:18]  Monaco, of course.
[00:22:19]  Well, some of us play more dangerous games in some of these smaller states.
[00:22:28]  But there's actually a big problem with gambling in the UK.
[00:22:31]  Yeah.
[00:22:33]  There's a bit of backlash because I think it's like nine out of 20 teams in the Premier League just have gambling companies on their front.
[00:22:38]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, they do.
[00:22:41]  And I think it's like, I can't, I mean, FIFA, obviously, one of the most corrupt organizations in the fucking world.
[00:22:48]  Like they make cartels look like, I guess cartels aren't corrupt because they're just baldly criminal organizations.
[00:22:55]  FIFA's like a cartel.
[00:22:56]  Yes.
[00:22:58]  And I think it's a good indication of the way things could go because one of the reasons it's corrupt is because fucking gambling.
[00:23:04]  Yeah.
[00:23:04]  This is where you have to say that maybe the Lurie Scheitz were onto something and that the whole plan is to kind of like Britonize America.
[00:23:11]  Yes.
[00:23:12]  Well, what's that?
[00:23:13]  You know that like fake Soviet thing that like, it was like the, who the, was it like this, some telegram or some letter.
[00:23:21]  I can't remember who the fuck they said sent it, but it was like one of the old Bolsheviks that like the British intelligence found.
[00:23:26]  Oh, what?
[00:23:28]  Bucharen?
[00:23:29]  I think it was Bucharen?
[00:23:30]  Fucking one of those motherfuckers.
[00:23:32]  I don't know.
[00:23:32]  And it was like, we need to, we need to destroy their morals first.
[00:23:36]  Like that's how we'll get to like a Soviet society.
[00:23:38]  And that's really like the thing is the MI6 found that is because that was actually an MI6 document planning this whole thing.
[00:23:45]  This whole thing, the long game.
[00:23:47]  Yeah, no, it's a big problem in the UK.
[00:23:49]  And a lot of, I mean, a lot of young, a lot of young kids, a lot of young boys get in this.
[00:23:54]  And I mean, they lose a lot of money, something like 30 billion spent on gambling each year.
[00:23:59]  That's why they have to dress in those tracksuits because they can't afford pants.
[00:24:04]  Well, we mentioned that like what I mentioned at the top of the show that like watching the Super Bowl, it was like shocking to me.
[00:24:11]  I know that they'd been ramping this up, but it really, you know what it is, is that when I watch, I watch the NBA a lot, but I watch it on League Pass.
[00:24:19]  And so I don't see a lot of ads.
[00:24:20]  And this is watching watching the Super Bowl Live with the amount of advertising that was being thrown at me, I couldn't believe it.
[00:24:27]  Yeah.
[00:24:28]  It was every other ad was some new like promo, some new like, hey, bet one, win five, like, you know, we'll give you free money, blah, blah, blah.
[00:24:37]  You know, it was, it was all over the place.
[00:24:40]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:24:40]  I mean, it was one of their biggest opportunities, right?
[00:24:42]  I mean, obviously it's the most watched game.
[00:24:44]  And it's one of those things where it's like betting on the Super Bowl.
[00:24:47]  That's the thing that people usually, even before obviously all these apps, that's what people usually bet on, right?
[00:24:52]  You know, you're going to make a wager on the Super Bowl.
[00:24:54]  And to be clear, like there is a thriving and huge worldwide, basically like offshore gambling market.
[00:25:00]  I think the UN estimated makes about $1.7 trillion a year.
[00:25:04]  So these legal companies are trying to kind of bite into that.
[00:25:07]  Yeah, they're trying to expand and create new markets.
[00:25:10]  And that's the thing is like all of these, well, speaking of new markets, I mean, there is some stiff competition when new states open up.
[00:25:17]  And that's why all of these companies basically offer these like money-losing deals, right?
[00:25:22]  They'll be like, I think it was DraftKings that had this deal where it's like, if you bet $50 on this game and either team scores a touchdown, you win $100.
[00:25:33]  So what they're trying to do is obviously hook you in there by being like.
[00:25:36]  Because you see that and you're like, that's a sucker's bid.
[00:25:38]  Got to take that.
[00:25:39]  That's great.
[00:25:40]  Exactly.
[00:25:40]  It is free money, right?
[00:25:42]  But what they're doing is they're spending money on customer acquisition.
[00:25:45]  Sure.
[00:25:46]  And so all of these companies are essentially like putting aside a certain several hundred to maybe a couple thousand dollars or whatever per customer because obviously a lot of those people are going to bet once or twice and then quit.
[00:25:58]  But if they can get some people hooked, they estimate that they'll spend whatever thousands of dollars throughout their lifetime gambling there, and then that'll make up for any losses.
[00:26:06]  Yeah, I think DraftKings spent like a billion dollars on advertising in 2021.
[00:26:11]  That is wild.
[00:26:12]  Which is a lot.
[00:26:13]  And with the pandemic, obviously, there was a huge rise in all this shit because everyone was at home, everyone was bored or not working or whatever.
[00:26:22]  And the apps right there, right on your phone, ready to go.
[00:26:51]  So Liz, have you ever actually bet on a game?
[00:26:55]  Is this in your list?
[00:26:56]  That's such a good question.
[00:26:57]  I'm trying to think.
[00:26:58]  Like, you mean like officially, not like with friends?
[00:27:01]  Any kind of betting.
[00:27:01]  I mean, I've done like friendly wagers with friends, but I don't think.
[00:27:08]  Oh, no.
[00:27:10]  I did.
[00:27:10]  I bet on the Super Bowl once.
[00:27:11]  I've just remembered.
[00:27:14]  You didn't say that in a voice that sounded like you had memories of victory.
[00:27:19]  Okay.
[00:27:20]  Okay.
[00:27:21]  Wow.
[00:27:21]  Interesting.
[00:27:22]  That is why I guess she's wearing this fucking potato sack.
[00:27:25]  I am wearing draft pants actually right now.
[00:27:27]  She's wearing a potato sack and rope sandals.
[00:27:29]  I thought it was just like a warm weather.
[00:27:32]  It wasn't this Super Bowl.
[00:27:32]  It was a long time ago.
[00:27:33]  Yeah, I know.
[00:27:34]  She still hasn't recovered.
[00:27:37]  So, all right.
[00:27:38]  Something that I know a little bit about.
[00:27:39]  I don't know if you, I mean, we'll get to this a little later.
[00:27:42]  Put some money in the jar there.
[00:27:44]  But we're bet for them at home.
[00:27:46]  There's a little, all right, yeah.
[00:27:47]  Actually, if you're listening to this, put money in a jar.
[00:27:51]  Put money in a jar right now.
[00:27:53]  Which that's technically not a bet, but you're saving money.
[00:27:56]  So we're doing you a favor.
[00:27:57]  Yeah.
[00:27:58]  So there's something called a prop bet.
[00:27:59]  Now, a prop bet is basically, from what I understand, without actually having ever looked it up, from what I understand, is that's like a proposition bet that you kind of bet on while something's happening.
[00:28:09]  Yeah.
[00:28:09]  Like a side wager a little bit, right?
[00:28:11]  You see two people yawning and you're like, bet that asshole trips.
[00:28:15]  I bet you $2 billion he trips.
[00:28:18]  And I bet you he trips after that trip.
[00:28:20]  Yeah.
[00:28:21]  Because here's the fun thing about a prop bet is that once you have the first prop bet, it opens up opportunities for another one and another one and another one, right?
[00:28:28]  This is kind of how game theory works.
[00:28:33]  Is that actually?
[00:28:34]  I mean, no, not really, but it's adjacent.
[00:28:36]  Yeah, okay.
[00:28:37]  Well, this is a game theory adjacent subject, which I'm very well versed in.
[00:28:41]  No, but in sports, obviously, there are a lot of different variables.
[00:28:44]  I mean, people bet in all sorts of things in sports.
[00:28:46]  Right.
[00:28:47]  Right?
[00:28:48]  Well, the classic one is the winner or loser.
[00:28:52]  Yes.
[00:28:52]  Which takes a full game.
[00:28:54]  Which, by the way, you should be able to bet on just people you know like that.
[00:28:58]  Like, yeah, this guy's a loser.
[00:28:59]  He's a loser.
[00:29:00]  I bet you five years guy's still a loser.
[00:29:02]  Most of the time, you're right.
[00:29:04]  In my case, everyone who bet on me, let me tell you this.
[00:29:06]  You're fucking wrong.
[00:29:07]  You're wrong.
[00:29:09]  You're wrong.
[00:29:11]  So, all right.
[00:29:13]  Imagine if you are a player in the goddamn NHL, right?
[00:29:18]  You're covered in armor like an ancient knight of old, like one of the Arthurian legendary guys that there were.
[00:29:27]  Let me read you a quote from the NHL Vice President of Business Development.
[00:29:31]  We're collecting a lot of data.
[00:29:33]  We're the only ones, this is my voice, we're the only ones that can extract that kind of data and collect it.
[00:29:38]  We're putting chips in pucks, chips and shoulder pads.
[00:29:41]  It's a whole new manufacturing process to have a piece of rubber with a chip in it that can bounce off the wall.
[00:29:47]  It's going to be 2,000 data points a second.
[00:29:50]  These things will turn into prop bets over time.
[00:29:55]  So what that means is, all right, you've got Wayne Gretzky and the other hockey player that I'm sure is famous.
[00:30:01]  They're both in a game together.
[00:30:03]  You'd be like, well, I bet Wayne doesn't like skate 2,000.
[00:30:07]  Fuck, I know nothing about it.
[00:30:08]  I know.
[00:30:09]  This is great.
[00:30:09]  Yeah.
[00:30:09]  No, I bet he doesn't do like 2,000 skate moves this fucking, I don't know, what do they do?
[00:30:14]  What do you call it?
[00:30:16]  He's pumping along?
[00:30:17]  I bet he doesn't do 2,000 pump alongs this fucking game.
[00:30:20]  And then you have the chip and the data that's collected by the NHL that goes, by the way, because they're partnered with all of these betting companies to the betting company.
[00:30:29]  And then that can determine who wins or loses the prop bet.
[00:30:31]  Right.
[00:30:32]  So all of these, what you're saying is that all of these, all this new data that they want to collect are creating new opportunities for new prop bets.
[00:30:43]  And that's explicit in what our little friend at the NHL just said.
[00:30:46]  Absolutely.
[00:30:46]  And it's a big turnaround from how like sports companies used to present themselves as really against gambling because it fucks with like the integrity of the game.
[00:30:53]  Whereas this is like a total reversal in their public, obviously, not necessarily private statements where they're like, you know, actually, we're going to make these, we're going to make Bill Gage look like a bitch and basically pump microchips into every orifice of these fucking idiots.
[00:31:08]  Well, you know what's interesting is to kind of like think through the logic here because remember what I said about the, you know, there used to be just like one bet that you make, which is winner or loser.
[00:31:15]  Yeah.
[00:31:16]  And that kind of had to, that requires you to like watch the whole game the whole way through.
[00:31:21]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:31:21]  And it's just like, there's one event that you're waiting for.
[00:31:24]  Yeah.
[00:31:24]  What this does and what the prop bet does, right, is it creates micro events to create more opportunities for betting.
[00:31:31]  Yeah.
[00:31:31]  Yeah.
[00:31:32]  So one of the reasons why that's good for companies is not just extracting profit, but it keeps people watching the game.
[00:31:39]  Yeah.
[00:31:40]  You don't tune out.
[00:31:41]  And if you're watching the game, it means your eyes are on the screen.
[00:31:43]  Exactly.
[00:31:44]  And I want to kind of like pull back for a second because this type of logic, it's actually borrowed from our betting friends over at the casinos.

=== Loop of Constant Proposition Bets (14:59) ===

[00:31:56]  So I saw on the screen, that's the kind of key point here.
[00:31:58]  And social media sites and other apps, you know, they already borrow a lot of technological gamification logic, all of that stuff.
[00:32:06]  All those advances that were perfected by Vegas slot machines, they take that.
[00:32:10]  But sports gambling and these kind of, you know, these new markets that are opening up have the opportunity to kind of push this tech even further.
[00:32:18]  Yeah.
[00:32:18]  So there's a sociologist, Natasha Dow Schul.
[00:32:22]  Or school.
[00:32:23]  I don't know how to say her name.
[00:32:24]  Well, is she, is she like, does she work at a school?
[00:32:27]  No.
[00:32:28]  Well, maybe, maybe she's a teacher.
[00:32:29]  She does.
[00:32:29]  I looked her up.
[00:32:30]  She works at MIT.
[00:32:31]  And so she call her Natasha School.
[00:32:34]  Okay.
[00:32:35]  Well, she gets into how this tech has kind of completely transformed the gaming industry.
[00:32:40]  And she has a book out called Addiction by Design.
[00:32:43]  And in the book, she speaks to a bunch of different gamblers in addition to doing a bunch of other research.
[00:32:49]  And all of whom like basically describe this sort of like trance-like state that they try to achieve when they're work while they're gambling, mostly at slot machines.
[00:33:00]  Yeah.
[00:33:01]  Right.
[00:33:02]  And so this is from the book.
[00:33:03]  It's like being in the eye of a storm is how I'd describe it.
[00:33:07]  Your vision is clear on the machine in front of you, but the whole world is spinning around you and you really can't hear anything.
[00:33:13]  You aren't really there.
[00:33:15]  You're with the machine and that's all you're with.
[00:33:18]  And Sheila keeps going.
[00:33:20]  Is it about money?
[00:33:21]  No.
[00:33:22]  Is it about enjoyment?
[00:33:23]  No.
[00:33:23]  Is it about being trapped?
[00:33:25]  Yes.
[00:33:26]  It's about having lost the plot as to why you were there in the first place.
[00:33:30]  You're involved in a series of entrapments that you can't fully appreciate from inside them.
[00:33:35]  Now, this is what Shul calls the machine zone.
[00:33:39]  And she kind of describes it.
[00:33:41]  She says it's like a rhythm, this kind of response to a fine-tuned feedback loop.
[00:33:48]  She says, it's a powerful space-time distortion.
[00:33:51]  You hit a button, something happens.
[00:33:53]  You hit again, something familiar, but not exactly the same.
[00:33:57]  Repeat, it's the pleasure of the repeat, the security of the loop.
[00:34:03]  So like all of that might sound very similar to maybe what people have experienced on social media apps in general.
[00:34:10]  And there's a reason for that, right?
[00:34:12]  Because that design logic is actually, like I said, borrowed heavily from the like the design of these entertainment gaming machines, aka casino slot machines.
[00:34:27]  Yeah.
[00:34:28]  Yeah.
[00:34:28]  I mean, I have, listen, I'm not a slots guy, right?
[00:34:33]  I don't understand what's happening on them when I play them.
[00:34:37]  Well, that's by design.
[00:34:38]  Exactly.
[00:34:39]  And I think that does appeal to some people, right?
[00:34:41]  Because there's so there's this constant and it really kind of reminds you of like if you've played like a modern slot machine, it reminds you of like Candy Crush or something, right?
[00:34:48]  Because there's always like a little bubble popping and like a bring, bring, bring.
[00:34:51]  You know what I mean?
[00:34:52]  Like it's and you don't really get what's going on, but things are popping and going on all crazy.
[00:34:58]  And I can see how that loops someone in because instead of like the old kind of timey slot machines where you just like pull the lever and then it's three across or, you know, however, there's this like constant motion, constant action.
[00:35:11]  And I know, I mean, you know, I've had issues with addiction before.
[00:35:15]  I know kind of what it's like to be in this like sort of like loop.
[00:35:19]  right?
[00:35:19]  I mean, it's a different kind of loop, but it's still an addiction loop.
[00:35:22]  And it's like everything else kind of fades away and becomes like blurry.
[00:35:26]  And there's like people are sort of represented by like vague points of light and sound that's like kind of discordant.
[00:35:31]  And you want to ignore it.
[00:35:32]  And you want to shut all that out until you can kind of like narrow down your vision so much to where it's just like this thin sort of sliver of light that you're rocketing towards and that you're in this kind of like relationship with.
[00:35:45]  Like there's this straight line between you and that.
[00:35:47]  Like you're part of this kind of beam of light.
[00:35:49]  And I think that's absolutely like you see that with, you know, I'm sure that everyone here has like looked at their phone for a while and then like kind of stopped doing it and be like, oh, wow, it's like, I just wasted an hour, you know, doing that.
[00:36:02]  I think that's, that's exactly like what, what, you know, is being described here is the machine zone.
[00:36:07]  Yeah.
[00:36:07]  And that's what's like the kind of directive behind coding all this time, right?
[00:36:12]  You're only the only imperative is how do we increase time on device, TOD, time on device?
[00:36:18]  How do we optimize the design of these apps to increase use and decrease opportunities for you to leave?
[00:36:24]  Like you were saying, this kind of beam of light.
[00:36:26]  How do we like direct people away from any kind of funnel that could get them to leave?
[00:36:31]  And, you know, this is not dissimilar to the designs of a casino floor, right?
[00:36:36]  So the choice of the pattern of the carpet is designed to keep you inside the boundaries of the casino floor.
[00:36:43]  Or the fact that there's no clocks, they don't let you know what time it is.
[00:36:46]  Or they, you know, they have market tested the scent that they pump into the air decks to oblivion, all to make you feel comfortable and keep you inside.
[00:36:56]  And all of that is echoed in the kind of, in the design of these machines.
[00:37:02]  Like you said, remember you said that, you know, you have the old timey slot machine.
[00:37:06]  Yeah.
[00:37:06]  And it's the kind of old, you know, you have the one thing and it's, you know, if you hit it, it's like bingo, bingo, wongo, wong, wong.
[00:37:16]  And then all the money comes out and you're like, oh, I can't believe this.
[00:37:19]  I have $75 in quarters.
[00:37:21]  Yeah.
[00:37:22]  This is a dream come true.
[00:37:23]  Okay.
[00:37:23]  So think of that old timey way.
[00:37:25]  Yeah.
[00:37:26]  Kind of as the old school sports vet of there's only one event, who will win, who will lose.
[00:37:31]  Yeah.
[00:37:32]  With the slot machine, there's only one event, the like one pull down and the doot, whatever.
[00:37:38]  Yeah.
[00:37:39]  Yeah.
[00:37:39]  So the game designers were like, we need to create aka more opportunities for more events.
[00:37:46]  All of those things that you're saying about how I don't understand all this logic of the video game.
[00:37:49]  I don't understand all these things.
[00:37:51]  That's all by design, right?
[00:37:53]  Yeah.
[00:37:53]  And there's a reason for that.
[00:37:54]  So there's more to the psychology of gambling than actually winning, which is very interesting.
[00:38:02]  So this is actually from an NIH neuroscience study on choice and gambling.
[00:38:06]  And I'm just going to read it because I think it gets kind of to the heart of it.
[00:38:10]  So using a slot machine task that delivered occasional jackpot wins near misses, like where the reels landed adjacent to a win, were associated with higher self-reported motivations to gamble than full miss outcomes, despite their objective equivalence as non-wins.
[00:38:27]  The greatest reward for pathological gamers may not come from winning itself, what they also call liking as a kind of substitution.
[00:38:34]  The brain releases more dopamine in the moments before a gambling result is revealed, aka wanting.
[00:38:41]  So gamblers like less and want more as time goes on.
[00:38:46]  What this means is that the addiction to gambling becomes independent of how many positive outcomes are experienced.
[00:38:52]  Pathological gamblers are rewarded with dopamine simply because of the uncertainty of playing, not necessarily only when they are winning.
[00:39:00]  So when you bring this back to the design of gambling machines, right, studies have shown that EGMs or electronic gaming machines have a pattern of play that leads to more gambling than other machines, right?
[00:39:13]  Than like physical gameplay or the lottery.
[00:39:15]  Why?
[00:39:16]  Because design advances prioritize that want over the experience of like, effectively engineering dopamine releases to keep gamblers in the zone, to keep them in that fucking machine zone.
[00:39:29]  That makes a lot of sense to me.
[00:39:31]  I mean, there's the, listen, I've always described gambling as the legal high for the sober guy, right?
[00:39:38]  It's terrible.
[00:39:39]  It's, but it's true, you know, if you, if you, listen, I used to love shooting crank, right?
[00:39:46]  A lot of dopamine in that.
[00:39:48]  In fact, a little too much dopamine in that.
[00:39:51]  And there aren't really that many opportunities for such a similar sort of high in your regular life, right?
[00:39:58]  I mean, obviously I'm a world-class athlete and whatever else gives people dopamine.
[00:40:03]  But gambling is really the thing that's most similar in the fact that you kind of have these like lurches, like these, these, these happy and also sort of terrifying, although the two can be kind of like difficult to parse out from each other, lurches in your stomach that really, I mean, to me, signify like a rush of dopamine hitting my brain.
[00:40:23]  And that comes with gambling.
[00:40:24]  I think obviously with electronic gambling, that is really like, I mean, I'll tell you this.
[00:40:29]  Last time I was at a casino, playing electronic card games almost has more of that because it's so like consistent.
[00:40:38]  You know what I mean?
[00:40:39]  It's designed to do that.
[00:40:40]  Exactly.
[00:40:40]  Has more of that than actually playing at a table with other people.
[00:40:44]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:40:46]  Because they're actually like when you're playing those games, they've designed them to create all of these opportunities.
[00:40:53]  Like you'll see, like for the, not with the card games, but in the slot machine ones, the video games, they have like more reels added, or they have all of these moments for like new micro bets that can occur.
[00:41:07]  Basically creating new opportunities to get you back in.
[00:41:10]  And so it adds to all the possible different combinations.
[00:41:13]  And so you're encouraged to place more bets within basically one single spin, even as the amount of each bet decreases in value.
[00:41:23]  And so it creates this illusion of winning, even when you're actually losing.
[00:41:29]  So when you have like a multiple line play, you can have all these mini jackpot wins, which are issued, also creating potentials for new what they call want scenarios, right?
[00:41:40]  More dopamine rushes, all the while encouraging and pushing players to continue to the end so that you can get the final answer to if you're going to like win the big jackpot.
[00:41:51]  And so you feel like you're winning even at the end of the multiple line play, you lose.
[00:41:56]  Yeah.
[00:41:56]  Well, I think there's also just like the continuity of it, right?
[00:41:59]  Like the, the, or the cycle rather.
[00:42:01]  Like instead of, you know, making like a few bets, because people always made some kind of like prop bets, you know what I mean?
[00:42:06]  Like, you know, betting on certain players or whatever.
[00:42:08]  But like with this like new opportunity to basically like make endless proposition bets, you know, and like constantly like reinforcing like, okay, this, like a constant cycle of like dopamine hits like over and again during a game, it's like a whole new, it's a whole new ballgame.
[00:42:29]  Well, no, it is.
[00:42:29]  I mean, you could think of apps, these betting apps, kind of as like weaponized, you know, electronic gaming machines.
[00:42:37]  Yeah.
[00:42:38]  You know, they are, I mean, imagine it's like solitary, continuous, rapid mode of wagering.
[00:42:43]  And it's not just in, I mean, I want to, we want to focus on the apps because it really is kind of a game changer.
[00:42:48]  Yeah.
[00:42:49]  You like that?
[00:42:50]  I do.
[00:42:51]  But it's also the original app, or as I like to call it, the TV.
[00:42:55]  God.
[00:42:57]  There's like multiple broadcast, like multiple networks experimenting with these overlay broadcasts.
[00:43:03]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:43:04]  I was showing those to you.
[00:43:05]  Yeah.
[00:43:05]  They're basically testing alternate broadcasts of games that have live in-game overlays with like frames around the broadcast that feature like, you know, changing, like live changing betting lines or stat lines or questions like, oh, okay, you know, will the score at the halftime be even or odd?
[00:43:27]  Place your bet, blah, blah, blah.
[00:43:28]  Like all these, basically like rapid prop bets as the game is going on.
[00:43:33]  Yeah.
[00:43:34]  And the thing about gambling is this.
[00:43:36]  Not everybody is the dark cowboy.
[00:43:39]  And I haven't heard him often.
[00:43:42]  Well, that's because he doesn't like, he's kind of most arrogant.
[00:43:45]  You know, he's like, you don't know where maybe he's like on the ridge line and you see him silhouetted by the setting sun.
[00:43:51]  Yeah, I feel like a cowboy is more of like a summer, like a late summer Indian summer character.
[00:43:55]  Yeah, well, a cowboy in the winter has to wear those like, what are those fucking chaps?
[00:44:00]  Yeah.
[00:44:00]  And like, those aren't.
[00:44:01]  No one talks about how it gets cold.
[00:44:03]  Yeah, you never see a cold cowboy.
[00:44:05]  No, you do.
[00:44:05]  They're just like chaps.
[00:44:08]  You know?
[00:44:09]  But yeah, I mean, listen, the more opportunities that people have to gamble, the more opportunities they have to lose.
[00:44:17]  Which all of these apps are essentially just creating more ways for like to part to have part people with their money.
[00:44:24]  Yeah, definitely.
[00:44:25]  And they're trying to do that.
[00:44:26]  I mean, this is the president of NBC Sports.
[00:44:28]  He said that we're trying to figure out ways to appeal to casual sports bettors to make the games more interesting to them, which is so fascinating because it's like they're basically trying to gamify the game, which if that like makes your head spin, then congratulations, you're a totally normal person.
[00:44:45]  They call this like predictive gaming, which isn't like a totally new concept.
[00:44:50]  But it's when applied to like major sports leagues like this on this scale, it's a total, I think it's like a total revolution.
[00:44:59]  I mean, it's like, think if fantasy football were run by a roulette table and like Joe Buck was dealing cards at the MGM.
[00:45:08]  Like it's just totally psycho.
[00:45:09]  So the idea is to use the advances achieved by electronic gaming machines and then apply it to live sports betting markets.
[00:45:18]  So like we said, traditionally, there's that one single event that unfolds slowly during the game, winner-loser.
[00:45:23]  Okay, fine.
[00:45:24]  But why have one single event when you can introduce all these micro events?
[00:45:28]  And so you introduce all these small little wagers on small little events through the games, these prop bets, creating more and more and more, speeding up time, speeding up event frequency, increasing dopamine releases, and keeping, or most likely, converting more viewers, not even gamblers, more viewers into the machine zone.
[00:45:50]  Yeah.
[00:45:50]  And so you have the creation of thousands and thousands and thousands of real-time markets basically powered by machine learning and analytics.
[00:46:00]  And I say that because I do want to bring it back to that quote that we started with from the guy from the NHL because it's, it's, you know, really important here.
[00:46:10]  He says, we're collecting a lot of data.
[00:46:12]  We are the only ones that can extract this kind of data and collect it.
[00:46:15]  We're putting chips and pucks, chips and shoulder pads.
[00:46:18]  It's a whole new manufacturing process to have a piece of rubber with a chip that can bounce off the wall.
[00:46:23]  It's going to be 2,000 data points a second.
[00:46:26]  These things will turn into prop bets over time.
[00:46:29]  Now, I was like going back when we were researching for this episode.
[00:46:32]  Yeah.
[00:46:33]  Remember when we did those episodes on the Great Reset?
[00:46:35]  Of course.
[00:46:36]  A long ass time ago.
[00:46:37]  Was that before COVID, by the way?
[00:46:39]  No, that was, you know, I don't know.
[00:46:42]  I've had COVID for like four years.
[00:46:43]  You know, it's crazy.
[00:46:45]  I actually was looking this up the other day on the medical website.
[00:46:48]  And you know how people always talk about long COVID?
[00:46:51]  I found out that if you have long COVID, you're just always contagious for COVID.

=== Data-Driven Gambling (14:56) ===

[00:46:56]  That makes no sense.
[00:46:57]  No, it's, I know.
[00:46:57]  I was like, this is crazy.
[00:46:59]  This makes no sense.
[00:47:00]  And I looked into it further on other medical websites from the government.
[00:47:03]  Interesting.
[00:47:03]  And if, yeah, if you have long COVID, it unfortunately means you're always contagious for the rest of your life, maybe.
[00:47:10]  So do you remember those great recent episodes?
[00:47:12]  My long COVID prevents me from fully remembering, but I know that we did them.
[00:47:16]  Okay, so in those, we talked about how the like part of the big Davos vision includes basically big draft big data, trying to track all living things.
[00:47:28]  And they, and I, you know, and I made a point about, oh, they want to create these kind of new derivative products.
[00:47:33]  It sounds so absurd, but you're talking about like betting on dolphin futures or whatever, right?
[00:47:37]  I can end that.
[00:47:38]  And in order to enable that, they need the data.
[00:47:41]  They need to be able to collect the data to then create, you know, basically little new micro event betting opportunities, right?
[00:47:51]  Yeah.
[00:47:52]  Well, a bunch of people fucking made fun of me after that.
[00:47:54]  They're like, well, I don't know.
[00:47:55]  Liz doesn't know what she says.
[00:47:56]  She's so stupid.
[00:47:57]  She just says things.
[00:47:58]  I don't know.
[00:47:58]  I'm just reading, but Reddit, but blah, blah, blah.
[00:48:01]  But like, this is, this is that.
[00:48:02]  This is the same logic, right?
[00:48:04]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:48:05]  Like, this is the creation of micro bet lines like slot machines for like in a huge new market.
[00:48:15]  Yeah.
[00:48:16]  And, and basically infinite variations of that too.
[00:48:19]  Like you can really bet on, I mean, 2,000 data points a second.
[00:48:22]  Obviously, you're not betting on every single data point, but the combination of those basically creates infinite variables for people to bet on.
[00:48:28]  And a lot of these companies will basically take any kind of bet.
[00:48:31]  Yeah, I mean, there's basically an arms race right now to collect data at the kind of scale in order to operationalize this kind of, you know, you know, these tools in service of creating these brand new markets.
[00:48:44]  Like the owners of these new casino games will win as long as we all continue to bet and lose.
[00:48:51]  And at some point, like it's what's weird and like trivy to think about, like at some point, if all of this goes according to their plans, which of course, like, you know, shit changes, who knows, whatever.
[00:49:01]  But if all this kind of like continues going, then you have to like start wondering, you You know, what is serving what, right?
[00:49:11]  Like, you can imagine that you'd reach a kind of weird, um, like a weird kind of sports betting singularity, where the gaming industry of sports kind of overtakes and then drives the game.
[00:49:24]  Like, remember when we in the Robin HOOD app, we were talking about how there was the sheer volume in the options market had basically like turned, turned the stock market upside down, because now suddenly, the volume in the options market was actually driving the prices into the underlying equities as and it's.
[00:49:44]  It was completely backwards.
[00:49:45]  It was like the the tail was wagging the dog yeah, yeah and that, and you can see something happening here in a similar way.
[00:49:52]  Well I, I think one indication of that is just how hungry all the major leagues now are to partner with all these yeah, betting organizations.
[00:49:59]  I mean, how lucrative it seemed, how many more.
[00:50:02]  I mean.
[00:50:03]  One very attractive thing for major sports leagues, of any sports, is the fact that like, if you want more eyes on the screen on any given game right say, i'm a fan of the NEW YORK Knicks, which is a basketball team, extremely based basketball team.
[00:50:18]  Yes, they're based in New York, um and uh.
[00:50:22]  So I don't give a fuck about the Lakers, or as you should not or the Warriors, right?
[00:50:28]  So if the Lakers are playing the Warriors um, you know, I might not watch it.
[00:50:33]  However, if I can bet on that game, I can suddenly have an investment in that game and watch that game right, and so this is a big thing.
[00:50:41]  That's like running around in the heads of a lot of executives is this will actually create a lot more like big eyes on the tv because people will be watching these games and actually I can't I don't know if I wrote the statistic down, but I read this earlier.
[00:50:53]  It's like a a huge percent of the people who watch the entirety of like any given sports games it's like 40 something percent have some kind of bet on it.
[00:51:03]  Fascinating yeah well, I mean, you have to.
[00:51:05]  It makes sense.
[00:51:05]  The more you can measure, the more you can invent ways to gamble on it.
[00:51:08]  Yeah, and this is like what the rush is.
[00:51:10]  It's the story of the stock market explosion.
[00:51:12]  It's the same story as the explosion in all these gaming apps.
[00:51:14]  Like, I do want to say that it's worth noting and it's worth people kind of sitting back and thinking about.
[00:51:21]  I think that like, the popular acceptance of gambling has coincided with the rise in the complete integration of social media into our lives.
[00:51:30]  Absolutely, and social media sites, You know, these guys owe their design architecture to the achievements of the electronic gambling machine.
[00:51:40]  And I don't think it's a coincidence that, you know, there's like in 2018, there's a survey by Gallup.
[00:51:46]  69% of Americans say that gambling is morally acceptable, which is up almost 10 percentage points from 2009.
[00:51:53]  And I don't think, I think it's something worth thinking about as we've kind of, you know, absorbed a lot of the logic of these social media apps into our lives.
[00:52:04]  Well, to be there's, you know, some crossover here.
[00:52:06]  To be clear, I think gambling is, I think the moral, I think that like it's kind of a complicated issue because I think it's kind of a weirdly phrased question.
[00:52:15]  I know, because it's morally acceptable as an I don't think people who are doing it are immoral, right?
[00:52:19]  They're people oftentimes people who are problem gamblers, people who gamble often.
[00:52:24]  And, you know, a problem gambler isn't necessarily someone who loses money, but the thing is, if you gamble long enough, you always make money.
[00:52:30]  But no, I'm kidding.
[00:52:31]  You always lose money in the end, right?
[00:52:32]  There are very few profitable gamblers outside of myself and my close circle of high-stakes poker player and friends.
[00:52:39]  And with that, it's like, I think a lot of the time it was classified as like a compulsive disorder until pretty recently when it was sort of reclassified as an addiction.
[00:52:51]  And it is gambling.
[00:52:54]  I mean, you know, we've talked about, we both know gambling addicts.
[00:52:58]  I've known people who are addicted to basically every kind of gambling.
[00:53:02]  I have people who are addicted to card gambling.
[00:53:03]  I have people who are addicted to slot machines.
[00:53:05]  I've known people who are addicted to sports betting.
[00:53:08]  I was in rehab with people who are there for gambling, which I was like, well, you can't gamble from here, I guess.
[00:53:14]  So you're all good, right?
[00:53:16]  My whole thing with gamblers is just run out of money.
[00:53:18]  You're all good.
[00:53:19]  No, but gambling addiction is a really, I think it's harder for some people to spot rather than like alcoholism or heroin addiction, right?
[00:53:28]  Because if you're addicted to gambling, there's gradations on it, right?
[00:53:32]  Like there are people who are problem drinkers and then there are people who are like full-blown alcoholics.
[00:53:36]  And those can have sort of somewhat different effects on people's lives.
[00:53:39]  Like that could be pretty, a problem drinker could have like a difficult time in their life, but it might not totally ruin their life.
[00:53:45]  They can still function somewhat normally.
[00:53:47]  A problem gambler or like somebody who's who has a problem gambling, but isn't like the craziest gambling addict in the world, they still have just basically as much of a chance of losing all of their money as somebody who has, I mean, it just might take them more time, but the odds are basically in favor of them eventually losing all of their money or going into debt.
[00:54:06]  And there's less physical signs.
[00:54:09]  I mean, if somebody, especially if they're just using their phone, it might be more difficult to tell if they're like actually addicted to gambling.
[00:54:15]  I read a pretty insane statistic from the House of Lords in the UK, which is that they said all 11-year-olds are hot.
[00:54:22]  No, I'm kidding.
[00:54:22]  They said that about all 60% of gambling revenue in the UK, because casinos are legal there too, comes from 5% of problem gamblers.
[00:54:30]  But that makes total sense.
[00:54:31]  When you think about the structure of markets and who drives these things, that makes absolute total sense.
[00:54:37]  Yeah.
[00:54:38]  No, 100%.
[00:54:39]  And I think the thing is, gambling, like online gambling is going to be continued to be like, it's probably, I bet it passes here in November, right?
[00:54:48]  Eventually, I'm sure.
[00:54:48]  Well, there's going to be money behind it.
[00:54:50]  Exactly.
[00:54:50]  It's going to become legal probably in every state.
[00:54:52]  And not necessarily on apps, but probably eventually on apps in every single state.
[00:54:58]  It's irresistible tax money for a lot of these states.
[00:55:02]  And there is the very real trade-off.
[00:55:04]  Like probably 1 to 6% at least of the people who use these apps are going to be basically ruined by them.
[00:55:10]  Well, the other thing, too, is that like I was, I mean, gambling has, of, of addictions, it has the highest rate of suicide at 20%.
[00:55:18]  Yeah.
[00:55:19]  Which is shocking.
[00:55:20]  Well, it makes sense to me, right?
[00:55:22]  Like, I'm a hair.
[00:55:22]  Like, when I was a heroin addict, I could ruin my life in that, like, okay, I lose all my, I mean, this is what happened.
[00:55:28]  I lost all my friends, you know, loved one, blah, blah, blah, blah, all my money, everything house, all gone.
[00:55:34]  But like, no one's giving me like a giant loan.
[00:55:37]  Right.
[00:55:37]  And like, no one's letting me, I mean, people did let me borrow money and then beat the shit out of me on the tenderloin.
[00:55:43]  But like, no one's letting me borrow a significant amount of money.
[00:55:47]  Whereas a gambling addict, like, you know, a lot of these people, the demographics of gambling addicts are often people who have jobs.
[00:55:53]  You know, it's also getting younger and younger, especially with the rise of these apps.
[00:55:57]  And also, I do want to mention the like attendant content like industry that these companies demand.
[00:56:04]  I mean, we talked about FanDuel, who's partnered with The Ringer.
[00:56:07]  I was listening to one of their fucking gambling podcasts this morning, and it was just the culture of this stuff is like such a bummer.
[00:56:13]  I was looking at some like Reddit posts on both like the sports betting Reddit and then like gambling problems Reddit.
[00:56:21]  I can't remember the names of them or whatever.
[00:56:23]  But there's just some like really upsetting, like, I know it's all anecdotal, but like really upsetting posts about young boys going to college, not having friends, turning to these things because they're listening to these.
[00:56:35]  Like, you know, it makes them feel cool.
[00:56:37]  It makes them feel like they have something to do and fucking like ruining their fucking lives.
[00:56:42]  Like one guy talked about how he tried, he'd contacted all of these apps, FanDuel, DraftKings, you know, I don't know, the MGM one, whatever, all those guys to get himself banned.
[00:56:56]  All of them, like no one, he, he did.
[00:56:57]  Yeah, they did a spot on that shit.
[00:56:58]  They're not.
[00:56:59]  Yeah, no, because there's no, there's no way you're, it's completely like faceless, all of this stuff.
[00:57:04]  And they depend on these guys.
[00:57:05]  Well, I was reading this article in, I think it was like wired.co UK from a while ago talking about how online gambling apps, like I think it was online casino apps, which we haven't even really gotten into.
[00:57:18]  But like DraftKings has, I think they have a huge market share of actually casino games in general.
[00:57:24]  Like they have on their app, like you can play like Blackjack or Roulette or something like that.
[00:57:28]  I'm sure like that's a huge other market that is, I mean, you can you can essentially transpose everything we're saying here to that or almost everything we're saying here to that.
[00:57:38]  But they were talking about how he filed a FOIA request to see what data they were collecting on him.
[00:57:44]  And he was a gambling addict.
[00:57:48]  And they identify people like him.
[00:57:49]  And this is one of those things where like, duh, of course they're doing this.
[00:57:52]  But like he got documents.
[00:57:53]  And basically they said they identified him and people like him to when they quit the app, they will send them like insane offers to keep them coming back that they know essentially because of the data they can collect that he will click them and he will use them.
[00:58:08]  And that's like if you are a problem gambler who uses these apps or if even if you're somebody who loses a bunch of money on these apps and you're not maybe not necessarily addicted, but you're like somebody who like, I don't know, basically always loses or plays a lot in any sense.
[00:58:23]  These people have identified you and they will go to the ends of the earth to retain you as a customer because you are the kind of customer who makes the money.
[00:58:30]  The people who sign up bet on one or two games do not make the money.
[00:58:34]  They do not give a fuck about them.
[00:58:35]  They have identified them as people who are like, all right, they will basically like that is a hard customer to acquire.
[00:58:41]  We're not going to spend resources on that.
[00:58:43]  It sounds even wrong calling it a customer at that point.
[00:58:46]  Yeah.
[00:58:46]  Well, you're paying them for a service and that service is to have like a brief dopamine hit.
[00:58:52]  It's, I mean, you're, it's, it's, it's more, I guess it's, I don't know what's what's apt, you know, to call no, no, I know.
[00:58:58]  I'm just saying it's so predatory that it feels absolutely.
[00:59:01]  Yeah.
[00:59:02]  Um, but uh, they have they identified you in a way that like is probably so granular that like they can predict every single thing that you're gonna do.
[00:59:12]  Um, and it's you know, and it's it's sort of this like bargain that states are gonna make where it's like, well, we have plenty of data on how gambling affects people and how it ruins their lives, right?
[00:59:23]  I mean, there is a reason that gambling has sort of been frowned upon for most of you know history in a lot of places, um, and or how it's been relegated to certain certain parts of your country or a state or a city.
[00:59:35]  Yeah, um, given little outlets in this, I think you're dealing with the dual addictions that people will have.
[00:59:42]  I know, cross-fated addictions that people will have of both staring at their phone and wanting to be in the machine zone on the app, and then also this other sort of like the original machine zone of being of gambling like this.
[00:59:56]  And so you have people who are already used to like this sort of like, um, I don't know if it's so horrific, but like this like drugging feeling that you get.
[01:00:05]  It's like it's dull.
[01:00:06]  It's like more of a dull exactly.
[01:00:07]  Yeah.
[01:00:08]  Because like if you look at, if you're somebody who looks at like social media for like an hour, you feel kind of dead after that, but it's like, it's like a, it's a, it's a numbing pain, right?
[01:00:16]  You know, like it's like, it's sort of, you know, it doesn't feel good, but it doesn't feel very sharp.
[01:00:21]  Right.
[01:00:23]  And there's a sort of like, if you're combining already being used to that with something where you're like, well, maybe I can make some money here.
[01:00:30]  And then like get into the, you know, all these things happening.
[01:00:32]  You're really invested in it.
[01:00:33]  It's like everything narrows down to this one beam of light.
[01:00:36]  It's literally a beam of light.
[01:00:37]  It's something in your hand on your phone.
[01:00:39]  You know, and you're sitting there in your fucking champion shorts, you know, on your fucking mattress on the ground, your little laptop playing the fucking.
[01:00:48]  Not going to class.
[01:00:48]  Not going to class.
[01:00:50]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:00:52]  You got the Bengals on the screen.
[01:00:55]  Didn't win.
[01:00:56]  Didn't win.
[01:00:57]  I didn't know they played.
[01:00:58]  I was, frankly, they're football.
[01:01:02]  Okay.
[01:01:02]  Well, again, I didn't watch it.
[01:01:04]  You know what I was doing the day of the Super Bowl?
[01:01:06]  Learning.
[01:01:07]  Having sex.
[01:01:08]  Yes.
[01:01:09]  With guys.
[01:01:10]  You know, you're sucked into this beam of light, right?
[01:01:14]  And I'm using, you're using the damn phone.
[01:01:16]  You're looking at damn Instagram all day.
[01:01:18]  You're looking at, you know, big booty Latinas all day on your fucking phone.
[01:01:23]  That doesn't harm you in that it just like sort of dulls your brain and like, you know, reinforces this addiction that you have because you're not spending money.
[01:01:30]  I hope you're not spending money on them.
[01:01:32]  But you're on motherfucking DraftKings because, brother, if you're listening to this and your little fucking earbuds are in and you're on DraftKings roulette right now, you put down the telephone.
[01:01:43]  Because it's like you, there is like suddenly real financial stakes here.
[01:01:47]  And you're not going to win.

=== Crypto Slots and Gambling Addiction (03:41) ===

[01:01:52]  However, if you want to bet for free, no risk, go to fanduel.com and enter in promo code Franzak200.
[01:02:02]  Now, a lot of people don't use this because they can't spell it, but there's four Z's in it.
[01:02:08]  And two whys.
[01:02:33]  Yeah, I mean, this whole gambling thing is really dumb.
[01:02:39]  I, you know, I...
[01:02:40]  A really actual good thing to invest your money in instead of a sports game, Beldencoin.
[01:02:47]  Oh, my God.
[01:02:49]  No, but I think it is.
[01:02:50]  I think this is something when we were talking about doing this episode, I do think it's interesting how there's a lot of online gambling.
[01:02:58]  Dude, yeah.
[01:02:59]  I mean, when we were talking about this, I immediately was like, Robin Hood, crypto, fucking FanDuel, Draft.
[01:03:08]  It's all one thing.
[01:03:09]  Yeah.
[01:03:09]  Fucking Twitter, the same thing.
[01:03:11]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:03:12]  And the money behind this stuff and pushing it is like on the level of the NRA.
[01:03:17]  Yeah.
[01:03:17]  Oh, dude, beyond.
[01:03:19]  Beyond.
[01:03:20]  And it's not even for a noble purpose.
[01:03:22]  Like, yeah, it's, it is like, it's, and I mean, you can see how much money they've like, they're pumping it.
[01:03:28]  Like, they're going to buy this.
[01:03:29]  There's, yeah, there's a lot of money to be made.
[01:03:32]  Yeah.
[01:03:32]  Yeah.
[01:03:32]  A lot of fucking money to be made on creating these new markets.
[01:03:36]  When we were having lunch earlier, I was watching on my phone a little bit and actually last night gambling Twitch streams.
[01:03:46]  Oh, yeah, you were talking about that.
[01:03:46]  We didn't get to this in the episode.
[01:03:48]  I mean, dude, so.
[01:03:50]  Wait, will you?
[01:03:50]  Yeah, tell them what you told me.
[01:03:52]  All right.
[01:03:52]  These guys like go to crypto casinos, quote, crypto casinos, right?
[01:03:58]  And these are like big Twitch streamers.
[01:04:01]  Like, I watched the one I was watching earlier had 35,000 viewers when I was watching like an hour and a half ago in the middle of the day.
[01:04:08]  But they can't do it in America because it's like against Twitch terms of service, I think, or something.
[01:04:13]  They can only do it in Canada or I guess in probably someplace in Europe.
[01:04:16]  But American ones can have to go to Canada.
[01:04:18]  And so they'll like stream them just playing slots.
[01:04:22]  And it's not even like them clicking in it.
[01:04:24]  They have an autoplay thing.
[01:04:25]  So it's just like they put in like whatever amount of money and then it just goes and Hundreds of thousands of dollars.
[01:04:33]  And of course they'll win big because they're sponsored by these companies.
[01:04:38]  They get paid $35,000 an hour to gamble and they're of course given free all free credits.
[01:04:44]  So there's no absolutely no risk and they're making a ton of money and they have like tens of thousands of viewers.
[01:04:49]  And they're just like sitting in these like fucking empty ass Vancouver Airbnbs.
[01:04:54]  Just like playing, not even playing slots in that like they're, you know, you know, you're, you're at, you're at the MGM Grand.
[01:05:00]  You're pressing that button or whatever.
[01:05:02]  They're just like letting it roll and like reacting.
[01:05:05]  It's, it's one of the, and it's crypto slots too.
[01:05:11]  And the crazy thing is like it's all kids watching that shit.
[01:05:15]  Yeah.
[01:05:15]  I mean, I think that is, again, like the content verticals that are attached to these things.
[01:05:20]  That's another kind of blurry line that gets real, real freaky.
[01:05:24]  Again, it reminds me of the stuff we talked about with Tesla.
[01:05:27]  Yeah.
[01:05:27]  Where you have that kind of, you know, the race of the affiliate marketers and, you know, kind of SpawnCon.

=== Send Money to QR Code (01:06) ===

[01:05:34]  Oh, yeah.
[01:05:34]  I mean, Barstool has a fucking, like a Fox Sports has a betting app.
[01:05:38]  All those places have betting apps that like report on sports.
[01:05:41]  Yeah.
[01:05:41]  It's yeah.
[01:05:45]  Best of luck out there, kids.
[01:05:47]  Yeah.
[01:05:47]  So I'd like to announce, this is my third fake product of I'd like to announce not an application, but more something you can do.
[01:05:56]  If you would like to bet on me.
[01:05:59]  Oh, that's nice.
[01:06:02]  Just DM me.
[01:06:03]  I'll send you a cash app link.
[01:06:06]  And I'm trying to think, what's something I could do to win?
[01:06:09]  They're going to bet on your success.
[01:06:11]  All right.
[01:06:12]  If you bet that I can kill Joe Biden.
[01:06:14]  Oh, my God.
[01:06:16]  Send money to the QR code that I'm DMing every single follower within the next hour using my automated script.
[01:06:26]  My name is Bryce.
[01:06:28]  I'm Liz.
[01:06:29]  We are, of course, joined by producer Young Chomsky in person in Room.
[01:06:35]  And this has been Truanon.
[01:06:38]  We'll see you next time.
[01:06:39]  Bye-bye.