True Anon Truth Feed - 👁️ Ghislaine Maxwell Trial: Day 13 👁️ Aired: 2021-12-21 Duration: 55:09 === Tri-Broad Pileup (08:25) === [00:00:00] All right, listeners, it is Psycho Billy Power Hour. [00:00:05] Fire up those flaming hearts, turn over that hot rod, and get ready for day 13 of the Ghillain Maxwell trial. [00:00:14] Did you do that because I said Lucky 13 and you were thinking of the bar in San Francisco, Lucky 13? [00:00:19] I was indeed thinking of the Psycho Billy bar Lucky 13. [00:00:22] Unfortunately, it burned down because someone's V8 turned over too much and then the gas emitted from there. [00:00:28] Several people. [00:00:29] You know what people say when you get something like that, right? [00:00:33] Nailed it. [00:00:50] And you know who else said nailed it? [00:00:52] Was the Roman who hung up Jesus Christ to that? [00:00:56] That bar sucks, by the way. [00:00:58] Yes, that was awful. [00:00:59] I actually only went there one time ever, which is lucky for me. [00:01:03] I think I've been there like yeah, twice. [00:01:06] There's listeners, Liz. [00:01:08] When you ever went to Cafe du Nord, you always ended up having to go there and like wait. [00:01:12] Well, a lot of people don't know this, but Liz actually used to be one of the foremost Psycho Billy practitioners in the San Francisco Bay Area. [00:01:21] You know the shoe, The Creeper? [00:01:23] You know, you joke, but I rocked creepers and I, and they were cute. [00:01:28] All right. [00:01:28] This is what this, you're trying to undercut my insult because I was about to say Liz wore creepers, but then they were more like a fashion creeper. [00:01:35] Yeah. [00:01:36] Well, I didn't do the full, what's the UK brand called? [00:01:39] What's it? [00:01:40] Creeper. [00:01:41] Doc Martin? [00:01:42] No, the Creeper brand. [00:01:44] There's like one that I didn't, I didn't wear those. [00:01:47] I wasn't serious. [00:01:48] Well, I'm a ser, I'm serious about wearing creepers. [00:01:52] Why so serious, Brace? [00:01:54] All right. [00:01:55] Well, ladies and gentlemen, let me descend the old-timey microphones from the ceiling, wrap my fingers around it in a caressing manner, and slick back the pompadour. [00:02:03] My name is Brace Belden. [00:02:05] I'm Liz. [00:02:08] We are, of course, as always, joined by producer Yam Chomsky. [00:02:12] You are listening to Truan. [00:02:14] And as you probably can hear, I'm still, unfortunately, under the weather, which means that I missed court today. [00:02:22] Where, where. [00:02:24] Sad face and had to follow along with all the plebes at home on twitter.com while Brace was deep infiltration, deep cover on the inside. [00:02:37] Yeah, they actually let me on the defense team today. [00:02:39] And the marshal let me hold his gun. [00:02:42] You were wearing your Ghillain wig, though. [00:02:44] Yeah. [00:02:44] Which is, they confused you, which was that was the smart move. [00:02:47] It was, it was, I know, I, I, my, my choppy bob, as they, uh, as they call him, it's my British nickname. [00:02:54] So today, Today, Little Lizzie was the closing arguments. [00:03:00] I know, big day. [00:03:02] And boy, you know, my whole thing about court is like, listen, we're all here to get along. [00:03:08] Not sure why you guys are arguing, but they argued today. [00:03:11] They were nasty towards each other. [00:03:13] Really? [00:03:14] Gloves off. [00:03:15] Well, we had here what I call a tri-broad pileup. [00:03:19] We had Miss Mo. [00:03:20] That's awful. [00:03:20] That's awful. [00:03:21] Well, it's a legal term. [00:03:23] We had Miss Mo up for the prosecution. [00:03:27] We had the defense represented by, and I gotta say, can't really describe her. [00:03:33] I was actually talking to another court attendee today about this today. [00:03:37] It is difficult for me as a man to describe Laura Menninger. [00:03:41] Yeah, because of any misogynist. [00:03:44] Even in just an accurate, objective way, all of the adjectives and verbs that one could use, and really nouns too, that one could use to describe her, not great. [00:03:53] Here's what I'll say: if you are familiar with Ann Coulter's oeuvre, you might be familiar with Laura Menninger's style. [00:04:03] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:04:06] Yeah, let me just say the, and I, you know, sort of correcting myself, a little Maya Culpa from last episode. [00:04:14] The Nag's Head pub is not named after Liz. [00:04:17] The Nag's Head pub is named after Laura Menninger's clapping jaws, because boy, does that the Those are some words that come to mind when talking to her? [00:04:28] And then for the second punch from the prosecution, we had Maureen Comey up there in her best theater kid persona. [00:04:38] I don't know is the best way to describe it. [00:04:40] I know, but strangely, I think it was not on me, but possibly on other onlookers. [00:04:46] Theater kid is not good. [00:04:47] I don't like hearing that. [00:04:49] Yeah, well, it's what it brought to mind. [00:04:51] And believe me, I was not the only one to think that. [00:04:53] In fact, many people remarked upon it. [00:04:55] So not even just being a jerk right now. [00:04:58] But yeah, last day and now, not actually the last day of the trial, but now the jury is sequestered, not actually sequestered, but they are sequestered during the day in deliberations until returning with a verdict. [00:05:10] Which is, can that happen just anytime? [00:05:13] So I'm sure that our psychotic, mentally unwell listeners who have been no doubt messaging the show, where's the podcast for tonight? [00:05:25] Are wondering. [00:05:26] We're actually recording later today because I stayed at the court late because the jury started deliberations tonight and were sequestered until about an hour and a half after we usually get out our hour. [00:05:40] So, yeah, it can happen fast, but I don't think it would happen. [00:05:42] But like, so to, yeah, so tomorrow, so okay, let's pan out. [00:05:47] There's no court. [00:05:48] Court is not in session. [00:05:49] It's a federal holiday Thursday and Friday because of Christmas, correct? [00:05:53] Yes. [00:05:54] Court is not in session Thursday and Friday, yeah. [00:05:56] So the jury could come back any at any point Tuesday or Wednesday with a verdict or not. [00:06:04] Yes. [00:06:05] Now, if they were to come back, how do you find out about it? [00:06:10] Like, what's the plan of attack here? [00:06:12] So the Dark Cowboy is going to be riding his little pony up and down the corridors of the Southern District of New York Thurgood Marshall Courthouse tomorrow. [00:06:22] Because we're just going to be waiting there. [00:06:25] And then they're going to call everyone in if the jury comes to it. [00:06:29] Do you have any UNO? [00:06:30] Do you have Uno? [00:06:32] What's like card games? [00:06:34] Could be fun. [00:06:36] No. [00:06:36] With the Marshalls or something. [00:06:38] No. [00:06:39] And unfortunately, the Marshalls confiscated my Switch and called me a soy bugman while they were doing it. [00:06:45] So, no, I actually still make those Nintendo Switches. [00:06:49] Yeah, I think it just didn't just come out? [00:06:51] Like, not that long? [00:06:52] Wait, what's the Game Boy you're thinking of? [00:06:54] No, what was the one between that? [00:06:56] The Dreamcast? [00:06:58] No. [00:06:59] The Wii. [00:07:00] The Wii U. [00:07:00] No. [00:07:01] Okay, well. [00:07:02] A little handheld one. [00:07:03] Yeah, we just named all of them. [00:07:05] NDS? [00:07:06] Wasn't it NDS? [00:07:07] The Wii U? [00:07:08] No, I think it was the Switch I was thinking of. [00:07:10] The 3DS. [00:07:11] But it was a long time ago. [00:07:12] Oh, the 3DS. [00:07:13] The 3DS. [00:07:14] Yes. [00:07:15] Well, I can't remember. [00:07:18] Anyways, yeah, so basically just going to be hanging out there and waiting. [00:07:23] I have a Philip Kiddick, stack of Philip Gay dickbooks for my dad that I'm going to bring. [00:07:30] That's nice. [00:07:31] Yes. [00:07:32] But yeah, basically, I mean, so here's the thing. [00:07:35] I was talking to some veteran court reporters about how long it can take. [00:07:39] And obviously, it is a gamble, right? [00:07:41] Because jury's makeup's different. [00:07:43] You don't, you never know. [00:07:44] There's so many factors in it. [00:07:45] There's no way to really predict. [00:07:47] I'm thinking that the court wants it, or the prosecution, and honestly, seemingly the defense too, wants them to be done by Christmas. [00:07:56] And so that means by Wednesday. [00:07:58] Okay. [00:07:59] That's my, yeah, that's my gut feeling. [00:08:01] I can't imagine them coming back unless they're really hung. [00:08:04] I mean, unless there's like one person who just really thinks Galene's innocent or guilty, depending on how it goes. [00:08:12] Wait, so if you're hung, you have to return next week? [00:08:16] Yeah. [00:08:17] Oh, well, then I guess I'll be in court. [00:08:19] Well, they wouldn't say. [00:08:20] Oh my God. [00:08:22] So anyways, today was terrible. === Question For Mr. Court Reporter (10:32) === [00:08:25] A bloodbath. [00:08:27] Wait, question. [00:08:28] Question for Mr. Court Reporter. [00:08:31] Before we get into the actual substance of the day, let's talk Scuttlebutt because I'm not there to get the lay of the land. [00:08:39] Okay, yeah, good idea. [00:08:41] How's the court look? [00:08:43] Well, the court looked a little fuller than usual today. [00:08:46] Okay. [00:08:47] And not only because there was a lot more people there to actually attend, you know, a bunch of journalists and also just like regular people there to watch it, but the actual row. [00:08:56] So ladies, ladies and gentlemen, the there's all right, so there's the defense team sitting there in front of some of these damn legal pews, I call them. [00:09:08] And the first row behind them is reserved for friends and family. [00:09:14] Now, in every day prior to today, there have been a trio of dumpy lumpers sitting behind Ghelane and her team. [00:09:26] The trio is made up of Kevin Maxwell, of Isabel Maxwell, and of Leia Safian. [00:09:33] However, today they were joined in a weird sort of, there was a big pattern there because they all look sort of this. [00:09:39] The two men look the same and the two women, of course, look the same. [00:09:42] But we were joined by Isabel's twin sister, Christine, and Ian Maxwell, who is Kevin's twin brother. [00:09:50] Pause. [00:09:53] Christine. [00:09:54] Yeah. [00:09:55] Was she wearing a beret? [00:09:57] There was no, there was a sole beret that has been parked in the same place it's always been parked right on top of Isabel's cronish head. [00:10:05] So they were not in matching outfits. [00:10:07] They were not in matching outfits. [00:10:09] No, in fact, you know, I needed you for this. [00:10:11] And in fact, I actually just, and I'm not even making a joke here. [00:10:14] I kind of just went up to the women and asked them how to describe what the women were wearing. [00:10:20] Oh my God. [00:10:21] And I got mixed answers. [00:10:22] I think she was wearing like a, what's it? [00:10:25] It's like a sweater with buttons. [00:10:27] A cardigan. [00:10:28] A cardigan, like a white cardigan. [00:10:30] And I got to say, despite being twin sisters, Christine looks like she got a little bit more of the adrenochrome than Isabel. [00:10:37] Interesting. [00:10:38] I feel like adult twin sisters have to dress in the same outfits. [00:10:43] Yeah, Gray Garden style. [00:10:44] Yeah, I feel like if you, well, they weren't twins, but I feel like if you have, like, remember the old twin, the old lady twins in San Francisco? [00:10:51] San Francisco? [00:10:52] Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:10:53] I feel like if you are at a public event and you are there as twins and you're of a certain age, either five years old or 75 years old and up, you have to wear the same outfits. [00:11:07] And yeah, yeah. [00:11:09] Sorry, my brain just automatically made me go, and twins. [00:11:14] Yes. [00:11:14] And so, anyways, I don't know if I've described it well enough. [00:11:18] In fact, I think I have actually described it several times, but Isabel Maxwell has been sort of being sinking into her bones. [00:11:25] Like her bones are absorbing her muscles and skin throughout this trial. [00:11:31] Christine, less so. [00:11:33] She hasn't been here for the whole time. [00:11:36] Yeah, yeah, she has not. [00:11:37] No, and I found it notable that Ian and Christine only showed up for this final day as if, you know, they might not want to see the all the evidence against their sister presented. [00:11:47] Now, Ian has given a lot of interviews on Ghillain's behalf, but it's notable that almost all of them have really just revolved around her conditions in the MDC in jail rather than, I mean, obviously she, I think, I believe he does. [00:12:01] In fact, I do know that the family has involvement with the real Ghelane Twitter account and website. [00:12:07] But Ian Maxwell's actual statements to the press have mostly, if I'm not mistaken, revolved around his sister's human rights, let's say, in jail. [00:12:19] Yeah, they haven't really spoken out again about her innocence, like almost at all, really. [00:12:24] No. [00:12:25] It's funny, Brace, just a little behind the scenes stuff for our listeners. [00:12:29] Brace, as he got out, was like, hey, can you look up some stuff on the Maxwell sisters and on, you know, Ian and Kevin as I'm walking over for the show? [00:12:39] And I was like, oh, yeah, no problem. [00:12:40] It's like where they live and all that stuff. [00:12:42] Yeah, just pulling a little, some bullet points, you know, whatever, little color, as they call it in the biz. [00:12:48] And funny enough, I was doing that, I promise. [00:12:52] And then I got distracted because now you mentioned Leah Safian. [00:12:57] I did. [00:12:58] Okay, so we, and we've mentioned her. [00:13:00] Leah Safian is, of course, the woman who she's been in in the courtroom every day since the trial started. [00:13:09] She's very good friends with Ghillane. [00:13:11] By all reports, best friends, even BFF. [00:13:14] Yes. [00:13:14] I got to say, you got to be BFF if you're sitting second row. [00:13:19] They're sitting basically second row. [00:13:21] Yeah, I mean, it's first row. [00:13:22] All right. [00:13:22] So let's not get this started again. [00:13:24] The defense does not count as a row. [00:13:26] They are. [00:13:26] No, no, no, no. [00:13:27] I think that first row was blocked off because of COVID. [00:13:30] Oh, no, I think that they're no, they're first row. [00:13:32] They are first row. [00:13:34] Well, they're in the second row. [00:13:35] They're in the second row. [00:13:37] Ladies and gentlemen. [00:13:38] You can't see their legs. [00:13:39] They're in the second row. [00:13:41] Okay. [00:13:41] There is a wall divider. [00:13:44] There's not just sit there. [00:13:45] You think the first row is just sitting there, like be able to kick that. [00:13:48] You could pass drugs that way. [00:13:50] Oh, my God. [00:13:51] Okay. [00:13:51] Anyway. [00:13:54] So Leah Safian. [00:13:55] Okay. [00:13:55] So also Leah Safian, best friends with Ghillane, is also the woman who took the photo of Ghillane at In-N-Out. [00:14:04] Yes. [00:14:04] Allegedly. [00:14:06] Now, the metadata from that photo said, I think Meadowgate is what the metadata said. [00:14:18] And so that's how everyone kind of pieced together these things. [00:14:21] Leah Safian is CEO of a company called Meadowgate Media. [00:14:27] Now, I was looking at this because I was just like going back in time and I was like, oh, yeah, I remember when we did all episode about this, whatever. [00:14:35] Leah Safian, so on the like the secretary, it's the state filings for the company. [00:14:43] It's CEO Leah Safian, Secretary, Leah Safian. [00:14:47] Okay, totally normal. [00:14:48] Chief Financial Officer, Louis Van Amstel. [00:14:53] And I was like, one of the Van Amstel clan. [00:14:55] That's a weird name. [00:14:56] Let me look that up. [00:14:58] Louis Van Amstel from Dancing with the Stars? [00:15:04] Oh, of course. [00:15:06] No, this is like a Dutch ballroom dancing, like mega celebrity star. [00:15:12] So you're telling me that like this Dutch ballroom star who has like 80,000 followers on Instagram, by the way, he's got like crazy tan TV man face. [00:15:25] Did you look at the photos I sent you? [00:15:27] I did, yes. [00:15:28] And well, the Dutch are sort of notorious for making, let's say, making their faces darker. [00:15:33] Yes. [00:15:34] But like, imagine that. [00:15:35] But then also for ballroom dancing on network American television. [00:15:41] Yeah. [00:15:41] It's like, imagine if Ryan Seacrest were Dutch. [00:15:48] Okay, I'm imagining that, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do. [00:15:51] Okay, so this guy. [00:15:53] Imagine if Ryan Seacrest were Dutch. [00:15:57] You know where I'm going. [00:15:58] Listen, I've got a little sick brain. [00:15:59] My brain's been boiled by a fever, baby. [00:16:02] So this guy is the CFO of Leah Safian's media company, the woman who took Ghelane Maxwell's In-N-Out photo. [00:16:14] Now, I was looking and I was like, there's no way. [00:16:16] It has to be a different Louis Van Amstel. [00:16:19] And then I pulled up this article from July of 2011, Dancing with the Stars Pros, Local Fitness and Dance Classes. [00:16:28] And it's all about, okay, dancing eight of 12 seasons of Dancing with the Stars. [00:16:33] Louis Van Amstel stays fit off season with LeBlast, a dance fitness program he created based on every dance form you can imagine. [00:16:42] And then you scroll down, the program features ballroom, cha-cha, merengue, disco, and more helping people like Leah Safian get through knee surgery. [00:16:53] Quote, you find it in the first hour. [00:16:55] You've learned three dances, salsa, jive, and cha-cha. [00:16:59] And it only took about that first hour and I was hooked, said Safian. [00:17:03] So then I was like, there's no way. [00:17:06] This is too weird. [00:17:08] She must have been so good at dancing that he was like, I got to get in business with this. [00:17:12] I know, right? [00:17:13] Well, the only other thing I can find is that there is a lapsed trademark that was filed in 2012 for the under the name Louis Van Amstel and then owned by Leah Safian. [00:17:32] And the trademark is for the slogan, if you can clap it, you can dance it. [00:17:40] What? [00:17:40] If you can clap it. [00:17:42] Yeah, I know I heard you. [00:17:44] You can dance it. [00:17:46] Can I? [00:17:47] Now, as I am not at the courthouse and I'm at home, Little Gumshoe Lives was scrolling through Instagram and found a photo of one Louis Van Amstel in a t-shirt holding not one, but two mini barbells. [00:18:02] Yes. [00:18:02] In pose. [00:18:04] Well, not barbells, hand weights. [00:18:06] Dumbbells. [00:18:07] Dumbbells. [00:18:07] I can see Yumchomsky freaking out. [00:18:09] It's actually Young Chomsky's nickname. [00:18:12] In a very tight, Dutch-like t-shirt that says, if you can clap it, you can dance it. [00:18:23] The trademark has lapsed? [00:18:25] It looks as if it's lapsed, yes. [00:18:28] Ladies and gentlemen, if you are a trademarking type, now is your time to strike a blow against the Maxwell clan by stealing this brilliant trademark right under their noses from right under their get the trademark. [00:18:41] Anyway, I'm very confused by this whole thing. [00:18:44] And if only I were there, if only I were there, I could be in the elevator with Leah Safian and lean over, say, if you can clap it, you can dance it. === Proof and Counts (12:54) === [00:18:58] And then, you know, cough on her. [00:19:00] So one thing that the Maxwells and their entourage of one have been doing is getting off of the wrong floor constantly. [00:19:10] And so I will. [00:19:12] There's not that many floors. [00:19:13] There's really not that many floors. [00:19:15] I'll ask, I'll query Mademoiselle Safian about that tomorrow. [00:19:22] Yes, Christine was there today too. [00:19:26] And Christine Maxwell, we did a whole episode on the Maxwells. [00:19:30] I think, was that Jurassi High, the one that we did? [00:19:34] Jurassi High. [00:19:35] Christine Maxwell was also, and this has been sort of bugging me out because I forgot about that, but she was one of the people that was in charge of Information on Demand, the Robert Maxwell Company, and thus likely maybe had some involvement in the, if indeed this is true, the selling of the Promise software. [00:19:56] Well, we know he sold the Promise software with the back door in it. [00:19:59] And so this is, she is, she is, she's seeing her in the mix today, I got to say, delighted me. [00:20:07] Because, I mean, if we're talking about people who've done spooky stuff, then this is a lady who is one of your prime candidates. [00:20:14] Now, you told me you scurried into the courtroom today. [00:20:18] Yeah, I took a little glance. [00:20:20] How'd that go? [00:20:22] They made me leave. [00:20:25] It was today was insane because there was people. [00:20:27] I know people who got up. [00:20:29] I mean, Marlon told me he got up at 4 a.m. today to try to get in the courtroom and was unable to make it in because again, listeners, there are people who shall not be named, but people who maybe have unlimited funding from big companies that hire line sitters to sit down. [00:20:46] To be clear, they have been previously named. [00:20:49] We have previously named them. [00:20:50] And if you haven't been paying attention, it's not my fault. [00:20:52] Not my fucking problem. [00:20:54] So the line did get in. [00:20:58] I also gave a rather deranged interview for a British television channel in which I claimed Ghelane Maxwell is Protestant and said that she did not take the stand due to her Franco-British hubris. [00:21:10] And so we will see if that errors. [00:21:12] But beyond that, also I found out John Peel apparently dated teenage girls, which is something I would have to look into. [00:21:20] Well, everyone else around him was. [00:21:21] Yeah, BBC, not a great track record. [00:21:24] But anyways, on to the closing argument. [00:21:27] Yeah, the main show. [00:21:29] So walk me through this because, like I said, I've only been able to follow along on Twitter. [00:21:35] And so I have a lot of questions about how it all went down, how it felt. [00:21:41] Miss Mo gave, I will say, and actually a pretty good closing argument, quite frankly. [00:21:49] I'm happy they went with her and not Palmerance. [00:21:51] Yeah, I'm yeah, as saying. [00:21:53] But she, so I gotta say, it was structured a little funky. [00:21:57] She was saying, I'm gonna give eight reasons why you should buzzfeed listicle eight reasons why you should convict Ghelane Maxwell. [00:22:04] Convince, excuse me, convict Ghelaine Maxwell. [00:22:07] But every single person around me, like journalists, all this stuff, could not keep track of the eight. [00:22:12] She didn't do a very good job of actually keeping a list. [00:22:15] And some of them were just people's names. [00:22:18] Number three was just the existence of Jane. [00:22:21] That was the reason. [00:22:23] But the way it went today is, so we actually, as members of the press, members of the public, and of course, members of possibly some Mediterranean-based intelligence services like myself, we're not actually allowed to see any of the exhibits that they showed to the jurors. [00:22:43] And so there was a lot of stuff that the jurors were shown today that we couldn't see. [00:22:46] They didn't even, they didn't even have like the fake, like, sometimes they just like show like a seal instead of when there's like a sealed document. [00:22:54] We didn't, we didn't see a damn thing. [00:22:56] She goes up and she's like, Ghelaine Maxwell was dangerous. [00:23:01] She was a grown woman who preyed on vulnerable kids and sort of laid out this image of a woman who targeted specifically girls who had tough family lives, often without a father, and groomed them in order to provide them to Jeffrey Epstein. [00:23:22] The first reason, this is actually eight reasons you know Matt Ghalain Maxwell is guilty. [00:23:27] And the first one does sound like a buzzfeed list. [00:23:30] Exactly. [00:23:32] The first was Maxwell and Epstein were partners in crime that sexually exploded young girls together and she was his right hand. [00:23:39] And it sort of went on from that. [00:23:42] Frankly, what they did, I mean, the actual, this was actually sort of the, I don't want to say driest part of the day, but with the prosecution, we already know what their case is, right? [00:23:54] Yes. [00:23:55] We've heard the testimony. [00:23:56] We've seen the evidence. [00:23:57] And they really, you know, the real thing today was they actually, I thought, did a pretty good job of bringing it all together. [00:24:03] Even though even some of the stuff that you thought, like, why are they bringing this up when it was actually introduced in evidence actually came out pretty good in the closing arguments and sort of tying it all together? [00:24:15] So what do you think was kind of like the outlying ones, like the ones that didn't totally make sense? [00:24:22] Well, a big part of both closing arguments was Jane, victim number one. [00:24:29] A large part of that was due to Jane's sort of previously inconsistent statements, which again is not uncommon with stuff like this. [00:24:38] You mean about the timeline? [00:24:39] Timeline stuff. [00:24:40] Yeah. [00:24:42] They did do a pretty good job of backing it up with documents, especially when she first met Maxwell. [00:24:48] For instance, they brought out her first application and then they brought out the flight record showing that Jeffrey Epstein was around the same time she was. [00:24:56] Ghelane got very fidgety during this. [00:24:59] Interesting. [00:25:00] Yeah, it was the only time of the day where she actually seemed really like sort of nervous. [00:25:06] But it was interesting because, I mean, they were using really straightforward language to talk about Ghelane, calling her a predator, you know, saying that she was feeding a guy to a pedophile. [00:25:17] I think calling her a pedophile, saying she was a child molester. [00:25:20] Wow, they really have not used any of that language before, not even an opening statement. [00:25:25] No, they used really, really strong statements here. [00:25:29] And, you know, one thing that they kept coming back to, which, you know, I'll be honest with you, I didn't really catch during the trial because they didn't linger on this, except for with Annie very long. [00:25:40] But the prosecution brought this up several times is that Ghelane Maxwell was accused by either three or four of the girls of touching their breasts. [00:25:53] And they brought that up several, several times. [00:25:56] So this was a new pattern that they were trying to lay out. [00:25:59] Yeah, exactly. [00:26:02] And so this was like, this was basically saying like, you know, they were, they were molested not just by Epstein, but Ghelane was an active participant in this as well. [00:26:12] Did the, I feel like in like court movies and everything, there's always like the big zingers that the, you know, you always want from a closing statement or like, what are the zingers? [00:26:24] What are the one-liners? [00:26:25] Did they get anyone's in there you think that are going to like stick in the craw of the jurors? [00:26:30] Well, I think one, one point, which wasn't that like great of a line, but I think would maybe stick in the craw is if you believe Jane, then Ghelane Maxwell is guilty on four counts. [00:26:44] And I think the thing is Jane's story, yes, like there are not holes in her, like the core of her story, but there were some details that didn't add up. [00:26:54] you know, which is not, again, uncommon. [00:26:57] But she, she was, I think, very convincing. [00:27:00] And so they were sort of hammering that over and over. [00:27:03] Like, if you believe this woman, then you think Ghelane's guilty. [00:27:07] One actual line they had that was really good is there's a lot of things you can say about a woman in her 30s groping the breasts of an underage girl, but therapeutic massage is not one of them. [00:27:19] Oof. [00:27:20] Yes. [00:27:23] And they did a really good job of sort of tying together all of the victims because taken discreetly, you know, of course there's holes in everybody's story because memory is fallible, right? [00:27:34] Yeah, of course. [00:27:36] But taken together, you know, I actually thought they did a really good job of having them play off of one another. [00:27:43] It was, it was, I think, a pretty good opening for the prosecution. [00:27:47] Yeah, I think that I think the task in front of them was really like taking that Jane is kind of like the, you know, kind of the core element of their case in that, like they said, it's, you know, counts for four counts. [00:28:03] But taking that as the like, then how what's in her case reverberates through all these other instances, right? [00:28:11] Yeah. [00:28:11] And with these other victims and using that as a way to kind of buttress her, her story. [00:28:17] And I think that if they are able to kind of pull all those strings together in the, in the closing argument, and it sounds like you think they were effective with it, then that could be pretty powerful. [00:28:27] Did they, I have a question about how they addressed like Annie's story. [00:28:32] Yeah. [00:28:33] Did they bring up her specifically at all? [00:28:36] Or did they bring up each of the girls individually or was it really more collective or how did they approach that? [00:28:42] So they did bring up and part of their sort of listicle, they did bring up each girl individually. [00:28:47] Yes. [00:28:49] You know, they actually didn't spend, I think, that long on Annie, although that's where I believe the groping a underage underage girl line came from. [00:29:02] But, you know, they talk about Jeffrey Epstein bringing out Annie Farmer and Ghelane's role in sort of grooming her in that situation really well. [00:29:11] They actually summarized it really well because they talked about getting her acclimated to this touch, right? [00:29:15] Like you had Epstein in the movie theater touching Annie with Ghelane on the other side there. [00:29:21] And then you had Ghelane massaging Annie. [00:29:23] And then you had finally, as a crescendo, Jeffrey Epstein jumping into bed with Annie for, quote, cuddles. [00:29:31] Annie denying, they noted this, Annie denying that to Jeffrey Epstein and going into the bathroom until he went away caused Ghelane to lose interest in her. [00:29:41] And so we actually heard all that during the testimony, but hearing someone summarize it like this, I think was really effective. [00:29:47] Yes, that would make sense. [00:29:49] Yeah. [00:29:50] Well, I really want to get to the defense, but is there anything else you want to bring up about the prosecution? [00:29:55] So one thing that they talked about was the money situation, because again, we found out that Ghelane Maxwell had been given $30 million over the course of about eight years from Jeffrey Epstein. [00:30:08] I think from 99 to 2000. [00:30:10] Yes, Eric Ghelane. [00:30:11] Eric Ghelane, yes. [00:30:13] And the prosecution said, you don't give someone 30 million unless that person's giving you exactly what you want. [00:30:20] And said something else besides that, but beyond that was like, you know, you give someone that money, like if you were engaged in these kind of activities together. [00:30:29] Yeah. [00:30:30] And, you know, they go through the counts at that point and sort of lay out how Ghelane is guilty by each one of those. [00:30:38] A lot of, of course, has to do with enticing a minor and then conspiracy. [00:30:44] This was, you know, this was sort of hard to follow on some counts because, for instance, on the conspiracy count, even though Carolyn and Annie were not actually abused in New York, Ghelane intended that to happen by some of the grooming. [00:31:03] I don't know if that'll hold up, but we'll see if it does. [00:31:06] They have to prove then you because this is happening in the Southern District of New York. [00:31:09] So this, like these have to have something to do with New York. [00:31:12] My understanding is the burden of proof for the conspiracy charge is much lower. [00:31:17] So you don't, so to prove intent, you don't actually have to prove that, like in general with conspiracy, you don't even have to prove that a crime was committed. [00:31:27] It's just that one intended to be and that there was a plan to do that. [00:31:32] I guess the real question, I would, and I don't know if this came up with the defense or if they brought this up, but this would be my question with the conspiracy charge is, is there enough proof that the first and like most the like prime purpose for bringing these girls was the sexual encounter? === Manipulative Prosecution Tactics (14:51) === [00:31:52] Yeah. [00:31:53] Because that's what they have to prove. [00:31:55] Like that the that they were that they were flown like that was the that was the like number one reason why as opposed to any other reason why. [00:32:07] Well, that's a good point because they were very clear on listen, this was not about scholarships. [00:32:12] This was not about helping girls, you know, get by. [00:32:15] The only there was no criteria for scholarship. [00:32:18] only criteria here was to be a young girl who was pretty and had a bad family life yeah absolutely i think that's very powerful yeah absolutely they they really flipped the memory money and manipulation thing too baby like well ghelaine seems to have no memory of her boyfriend of like a decade abusing underage girls in their home constantly oh i'm sorry brace would you say they flipped what They flipped it. [00:32:45] I didn't say they flipped the script. [00:32:46] I said they flipped it around on them. [00:32:48] I'm not going to, nope, objection. [00:32:50] Overruled. [00:32:51] Sustained. [00:32:53] They flipped it around and they said, you know, Ghelane's manipulation. [00:32:57] And then, of course, they talked about that $30 million as the money. [00:33:02] And then we come to the defense. [00:33:03] Okay. [00:33:04] So as I'm, I want to give you my impression from Twitter because I'm not in the room. [00:33:11] And so I'm very curious. [00:33:12] Now, as I'm reading through the kind of live tweets, there's at least two guys that I'm following that are live tweeting these from the courtroom. [00:33:22] I thought that the defense, which, okay, look, we've got Menninger up there. [00:33:27] She's a frozen ice sculpture of a hawk. [00:33:31] She's just like coming at you, but frozen. [00:33:34] She's an ice queen. [00:33:36] Yeah. [00:33:36] With a, you know, bald eagle beak or something. [00:33:42] She doesn't, I mean, the good thing about Laura Menninger is she doesn't give the off the aura of a pedophile, which is good for Ghelane, but she does give off the aura of somebody who will throw your kids into a large cauldron and possibly put them in a stew of some. [00:33:55] Yeah, I mean, I'm not, she really does have the Culture vibes. [00:34:00] Like, yeah. [00:34:02] Oof. [00:34:02] She's fit. [00:34:03] Which can be 60 to 60. [00:34:08] Anyway, I was reading these and I was like, huh, these are feeling a bit, you know, they're getting in there. [00:34:16] They're, they're jamming up the machine. [00:34:19] They're gumming up the works. [00:34:20] I'm mixing metaphors left and right because, you know what? [00:34:23] That's what I do. [00:34:24] So, Brace, walk me through it. [00:34:25] What happened? [00:34:27] So I will say there were, I would, I would, I would put the defense's closing arguments into two kind of, well, there was the first part, which I thought they did really badly on. [00:34:37] And then she really sort of gained steam towards the second half of it. [00:34:42] Menninger essentially goes out there and says that, you know, like Liz and I have been talking, it's unclear on what if they've settled on an actual strategy or if they're doing that, just throwing everything in a wall and see what sticks. [00:34:56] And it was, I was very curious to see if that would actually like cohere into a coherent narrative for them here at the end. [00:35:04] And it sort of, we had the shape of a narrative here, but we didn't, it wasn't filled out, you know? [00:35:11] It's like buying a bikini and just hanging it up on like a weird hanger or something, but there's no bikini babe in it whatsoever. [00:35:20] So what they go and say is that essentially this is all right. [00:35:29] It was all over the place because they really just accused essentially of all of these different forces from you know, they talk about money, manipulation, and memory. [00:35:42] They start with manipulation. [00:35:43] They start talking about personal injury lawyers that were hired by the girls. [00:35:48] Oh my God. [00:35:49] They start talking about the prosecution as manipulative. [00:35:55] And they start talking about the FBI as having basically goaded the girls into pointing the finger at Ghelane Maxwell. [00:36:05] Okay. [00:36:06] The prosecution, of course, is running the case, according to Laura Menninger, out of something out of a sensationalist tabloid, which is, I got to say, I wish was the case. [00:36:15] The prosecution is not trying to make this into a sensationalist. [00:36:17] Yeah, totally. [00:36:18] They're trying to be like, nobody did anything but Ghelane. [00:36:21] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:36:22] Don't look at anything else. [00:36:23] Don't look over here. [00:36:24] Don't look over there. [00:36:25] Look right here. [00:36:26] And so they really played off the loftist thing by saying that these girls had all these memories that may or may not be true about Jeffrey Epstein. [00:36:35] But in the time since that he had, since, you know, they originally either told a story of the FBI and especially since he died, they've actually magically inserted Ghelane Maxwell into these narratives where she had not been before. [00:36:49] Now, this is actually not true. [00:36:51] Several of the girls had mentioned Ghelane Maxwell to the FBI in prior statements they gave to them. [00:36:58] But they're saying that essentially the FBI and the prosecution didn't do due diligence on this girl. [00:37:03] So we're not like out here to be like, oh, you know, they're fucking liars. [00:37:07] But unfortunately, the prosecution did not call them fucking liars. [00:37:10] So we have to. [00:37:12] We have to actually investigate these girls. [00:37:14] And again, they don't do well during the first part. [00:37:17] It is really like Menninger is like barking this kind of shit. [00:37:21] I'm not trying to sound sexist here, but I'm just saying what she sounds like. [00:37:26] Saying that they, you know, people, everyone's painting Ghelane Maxwell, who she calls Ghelen, by the way. [00:37:31] Yeah. [00:37:33] As Cruella Devil mixed with the lady or Cruella Devil and the Lady Wears Prada all wrapped up into one. [00:37:42] The Devil wears Prada, Brace. [00:37:45] Is there that's what I am quoting? [00:37:47] No, she would have said the devil wears Prada. [00:37:49] I swear to you 1,000%. [00:37:52] All right, we need a court reporter. [00:37:54] I cannot believe that Laura Menninger would miss the Devil Wears Prada. [00:37:59] Yeah, no, it is. [00:38:00] No, she definitely said the Lady Wears Prada. [00:38:03] I am not because I had this confirmed by several other people because I was like, well, maybe there's a movie called That that I don't know about. [00:38:11] Weird. [00:38:11] It's no, that's the lady. [00:38:13] Flub the big line. [00:38:15] That's not even good. [00:38:16] Well, she's not even a good big line. [00:38:19] She flubbed a few other things too. [00:38:23] So this is, I mean, all right. [00:38:26] So she's accusing the government of finessing the case, but we're actually doing a little bit of finessing over here if we're Laura Menninger. [00:38:34] Because she starts calling, she says a lot of really mealy-mouthed things. [00:38:38] Like she calls Jane at one point a fully grown adult young woman, which seems to be very repetitive, but is also literally describing a child. [00:38:52] She's just describing the way that Epstein's pilot described her. [00:38:58] As you know, remember, he had said she had ample breasts and beautiful eyes. [00:39:02] But they tried to really throw some salt in the eyes and some sand in the works, or however you want to pronounce it, gum up the works by really confusing the issue. [00:39:11] So, all right, they're talking about how Jane had, you know, been molested by Epstein, was around him so much, but also her family was around him. [00:39:20] She talked a lot about her family in her testimony. [00:39:24] And Laura Menninger was like, well, if her family was there and if her family could attest to this story, how come her family wasn't called to the stand? [00:39:31] You might be like, damn, how come they weren't? [00:39:35] But then remember, her brother was called to the stand, but he had told the court that he had communicated with Jane because Jane had called Laura Meninger. [00:39:51] What was the word? [00:39:52] Was it the C word? [00:39:53] It was the C word. [00:39:55] She had called Laura Menninger a well. [00:40:04] And I don't know why you said that so. [00:40:08] Like, like you were like, I couldn't tell you if you get mad at me or not. [00:40:16] I don't know. [00:40:17] People get weird about this. [00:40:18] It's like you are eating an hors d'oeuvre or something. [00:40:22] I don't duve. [00:40:25] But so they were like, well, if they could back you up, how come they didn't? [00:40:31] But again, he was going to, but then he basically had to be disqualified because Jane had texted him that the woman speaking at this moment was a right con. [00:40:46] And so that there was that. [00:40:48] And then they tried to say, okay, Annie Farmer, right? [00:40:52] Annie Farmer says this happened in April 1996 that she spent a weekend on Jeffrey's New Mexico ranch, Zoro Ranch, with Ghelane Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. [00:41:05] Now, the defense is like, hmm, interesting that she'd say 1996 when she was 16. [00:41:11] However, Jeffrey Epstein's flight logs show that he did not go there during the weekend, or especially with Ghelane Maxwell at all during 1996, but that they did go there during 1997. [00:41:22] Now, you might remember, too, that Jeffrey Epstein had paid for a trip to, I believe, Thailand and Vietnam for Annie Farmer during the summer. [00:41:34] And they say, well, Customs and Border Patrol here says that she actually, we have records of her re-entering from Dusseldorf in 1997. [00:41:44] Now, you might remember from Annie Farmer's mother's testimony that Annie Farmer's mother was in Germany the same time that Annie Farmer was in Southeast Asia. [00:41:53] So might she just be misremembering by a year? [00:41:56] Now, you might be like, oh my God, this is so crazy how they're tying this all together. [00:42:00] But later, the prosecution rebuts this with, well, Jeffrey Epstein shows on the flight logs that in 1996, he flew there on March 29th and stayed through the next weekend. [00:42:15] So kind of falls flat there. [00:42:19] It was, they did it the third time. [00:42:22] They tried to start, they tried to say that Sean, Carolyn's ex-boyfriend, who had also facilitated not only Carolyn, but another girl's going to Epstein's house, had said that a woman with an accent, you know, would call him and arrange these meetings. [00:42:38] And they said, well, he never mentioned Ghelane. [00:42:40] Well, that's because Sean said and Carolyn said that they called Ghelane Maxwell because neither of them could pronounce the name Ghelane. [00:42:49] So yes, they did never mention Ghelane, but they did mention Maxwell. [00:42:56] So a lot of real slippery language there. [00:42:58] Yeah, that's the job of the defense lawyer. [00:43:00] Pretty, pretty shifty. [00:43:03] Smart, though. [00:43:05] Yeah. [00:43:06] So do you think it played with the jury? [00:43:09] Impossible to tell because the prosecution during the rebuttal did a pretty good job of dismantling that. [00:43:15] Although I don't think they actually mentioned Jane's brother. [00:43:19] But they really demolished the ante thing. [00:43:21] Do you think there was anything that the prosecution should have mentioned during the rebuttal that they didn't? [00:43:25] I would say, well, so one thing the prosecution did do, which I was frustrated by, this is actually, I believe, during the opening part of the opening part of their closing statement. [00:43:37] So not the rebuttal, is that they said that, remember how they asked Eva and Michelle if they were the only Evas and Michelle's in the whole Y world? [00:43:45] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:43:46] Well, which is such a stupid thing. [00:43:48] Whatever. [00:43:48] Such a stupid thing. [00:43:49] So the thing is, it probably was Eva Dubin who engaged in group sex. [00:43:53] Of course. [00:43:54] Jane. [00:43:56] And of course, Eva Dubin on the stand said it was. [00:43:58] Which is lying. [00:44:00] Of course. [00:44:01] Yes. [00:44:01] That's the thing. [00:44:02] They're literally just lying. [00:44:03] Allegedly maybe. [00:44:05] I'm going to, yeah, allegedly maybe lying. [00:44:08] But the prosecution basically tried to worm their way out of that by saying, well, Jane actually never mentioned their first and last names. [00:44:18] So it could have been any Eva. [00:44:20] And there's actually another Eva in the phone book. [00:44:21] But like, no, I'm sorry, sister. [00:44:24] It's Eva Dubin. [00:44:26] The swinger. [00:44:27] The Euro swinger. [00:44:28] The Swedish swinger. [00:44:29] Come on. [00:44:31] So. [00:44:33] You know, I will say they the defense did a good job of painting like Kate. [00:44:38] I mean, Kate was kind of the, in pre-legal terms, there was a lot of questions about Kate's involvement in this case, just because it wasn't technically illegal. [00:44:48] Right. [00:44:50] But, you know, they do, they do a decent job of painting that Kate was still in touch with Epstein until her 30s. [00:44:57] But it was, it was, they weren't, they were struggling a little bit until they basically got to the point. [00:45:05] And, you know, this is very common for defenses to do during closing arguments where they're like, think of the people who you saw testify, like the victims, essentially. [00:45:15] Would you trust any of these people to help you make a big decision, like having like heart surgery or buying a new house? [00:45:22] You know, basically saying, you need to be totally 100% sure of somebody in order to convict here. [00:45:30] And I think that actually, which is obviously the defense is going to say that, but I think manager put it across really well. [00:45:36] Yeah. [00:45:37] Just purely in terms of like courtroom stuff. [00:45:41] I mean, that is a hard, that's a big hurdle. [00:45:43] Reasonable doubt is a big hurdle. [00:45:46] Right. [00:45:46] Yeah. [00:45:47] And I think especially in a case like this, where, like we said, a lot of the charges, like, for example, the conspiracy ones or the grooming ones kind of rest on not all like, you know, not a lot of like hard evidence from A to B to C to D, whatever. [00:46:09] You know what I mean? [00:46:10] They're a little bit grayer. [00:46:11] They're a little bit shakier. [00:46:12] This stuff happened much longer longer, you know. [00:46:15] Yeah. [00:46:16] This stuff happened a long time ago. [00:46:17] Excuse me. [00:46:19] That's a big hurdle. [00:46:21] It's always a big hurdle, but it feels particularly large in this case. [00:46:24] Yeah. [00:46:25] And, you know, they said, too, it's like, you cannot conclude she's part of the conspiracy. [00:46:29] I'm talking about the conspiracy charges because she visited Palm Beach and, quote, must have known. [00:46:33] And that is true. [00:46:34] Like, I think legally, you can't be like, she must have known. [00:46:37] You need some kind of proof that she did. [00:46:40] However, the thing is, if you're a human being, she must have known. === Need for Proof (04:22) === [00:46:44] She did. [00:46:44] I mean, we know, listeners to this show, and of course the host of this show, we know that not only did she know, but she was an active, willing, enthusiastic participant and probably, frankly, kind of leading the charge in a lot of this. [00:46:56] Yeah. [00:46:58] But, you know, that's, of course, we're not the jury here. [00:47:01] So, Yeah, I think Menninger finished sort of strong, but I still don't think the whole thing was like taken as a whole. [00:47:08] I can't believe they didn't have Bobby do it. [00:47:10] Well, so question. [00:47:12] Now we get to the good stuff. [00:47:13] Question. [00:47:14] Whose decision do you think that was? [00:47:16] Do you think that was Ghillain or do you think it was Bobby? [00:47:19] Frankly, I don't know. [00:47:20] I think it was Menninger. [00:47:21] It was like, well, you did the opening. [00:47:22] I want to do this one. [00:47:23] No, I don't think it goes like that. [00:47:25] I think I have a feeling that Ghillain pulled rank. [00:47:29] You need to get the attack dog out for this. [00:47:31] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:47:32] Maybe she didn't like the way Bobby, you know, too slow. [00:47:34] She saw everyone's, you know, the way everyone took the Loftus, which Bobby, the only witness she exam or she like presented was Loftus. [00:47:46] Yeah, I think that she crossed a couple of people. [00:47:48] Yeah, but it was like tiny guys. [00:47:50] It wasn't like anyone major. [00:47:52] None of the victims. [00:47:54] Bobby could be a patent type where she's really sort of directing the troops and unfortunately dies. [00:47:58] Absolutely. [00:47:59] It's assassinated by the American government. [00:48:02] Above Bobby, a tier above Bobby. [00:48:04] Uh-huh. [00:48:05] Ghillain. [00:48:06] Okay. [00:48:07] Not true. [00:48:10] So Ghillain's a lawyer now? [00:48:12] Because that would be how those tears work because that's tears of lawyers. [00:48:15] You can't, you're mixing tears here. [00:48:18] And there's about to be some tears because I'm going to describe to you the prosecution's rebuttal by Memoiselle Comey. [00:48:24] And she went, it was very short, but she went fucking ham. [00:48:30] Yes, this is theater girl glee time. [00:48:34] Yes. [00:48:35] I was shocked because this was sort of the most theatrical anyone had gotten, but it was, I got to say, the reaction from the people around me was like, this sounds a little forced, but I think it was probably pretty effective. [00:48:49] You know, basically she said, she rebutted several other things like I mentioned. [00:48:54] One thing that she did say that I think was funny was, who needs, she was talking about how like all these lists of masseuses and stuff. [00:49:00] She's like, who needs that many masseuses? [00:49:03] Who needs that many massages? [00:49:05] Like, who needs, like, if you're a millionaire, how come you have masseuses? [00:49:10] So she's doing like a type five here. [00:49:12] Yeah. [00:49:13] She's doing her massage. [00:49:14] What's the deal with having masseuses if you're a millionaire that you have to call their dad to get them to come over, which is fair enough? [00:49:21] She's actually just auditioning for us to know because everyone's out with COVID. [00:49:25] Yeah, and she actually open. [00:49:27] She was saying, we molested kids together. [00:49:30] She was calling the 30 million, we molested kids together money. [00:49:33] Oh, I was going to say that's okay. [00:49:36] That's very funny. [00:49:37] And that sticks in your brain. [00:49:39] That was good. [00:49:40] But her just saying, we molested the kids together, which is what I thought you first said, wasn't it? [00:49:44] Well, no, she said that to me in the hallway. [00:49:46] Yeah. [00:49:46] And I was like, listen, this is only $20 for the ice cream machine. [00:49:52] But she busts down the annie farmer stuff. [00:49:57] She's like, listen, in order, she's basically calling the defense conspiracy theorists. [00:50:02] Like, so you're saying that all eight witnesses who supported them and all of their different lawyers and all the government and the FBI all conspired together to get these girls to tell these stories, and these stories still have that many holes in them? [00:50:18] They're like, these girls have to be telling the truth because their stories don't add up, which actually, fair enough, you know. [00:50:24] Now, everyone's trying to have it both ways on each side, you know what I mean? [00:50:29] Exactly. [00:50:29] It's like, yes, they are inconsistent because they're telling the truth. [00:50:33] Yes, it's like, no, they're liars because they're inconsistent. [00:50:37] Yes, swim big Earl Burroughs. [00:50:39] But she did ask, and I think kind of rightly, it's like, well, like, Sean and Carolyn, they don't get a, you know, they haven't talked in a while. [00:50:47] It seems like they had a pretty contentious relationship. [00:50:49] Why is he getting up there and corroborating everything she said? [00:50:52] You know, like, what are the exes getting, even if you know, as the defense claims, the victims are getting money out of this, which is categorically untrue, um, then how is the I mean, what are the what are these other people getting out of it? === Contentious Relationships (02:41) === [00:51:06] Um, and so they she closed on a very sort of fiery note, and and then that was it. [00:51:13] That was that was it for closing, and we finished it, I think, three o'clock around that 3:05. [00:51:20] And now we wait, yes, yes, it was a long rest of the day, and I predict it'll be a long rest of the uh two days, probably. [00:51:31] I'm guessing Wednesday, yeah. [00:51:33] I feel like Wednesday afternoon is my guess, yeah, unless they come back after the holiday, in which case that would be wild. [00:51:40] That would be wild, but I predict that shit shall not happen. [00:51:43] Judge Nathan here seems to want to move things along, um, but yeah, it was crazy too. [00:51:50] They also like they they they showed us all the tapes, they said that I mean, it was you missed a lot of stuff today. [00:51:57] They showed us a document in Hebrew signed by Jeffrey Epstein, Elaine Maxwell, and the head of the every head of Israel's intelligence, every single one of them from Shinbet to Masad, all together. [00:52:09] Yeah, what, yeah, and you know what? [00:52:12] It was crazy because I can read Hebrew. [00:52:15] They were saying that actually it's a blue dress. [00:52:19] You like that? [00:52:20] Do you like that joke? [00:52:22] People were like, Is this dress blue or green or whatever? [00:52:25] What you feel me? [00:52:27] The white and gold one? [00:52:29] You feel me? [00:52:29] Wasn't blue and green? [00:52:31] It was white and gold versus blue and black and black. [00:52:36] Black? [00:52:37] Well, listen, what? [00:52:39] Oh, wow. [00:52:39] That took that was, yeah, that was great. [00:52:42] Listen, I got undone and smoked weed today. [00:52:45] Look, my sick brain kind of tuned out for a second because I was like thinking, I was coming up with a new like courtroom romantic comedy called Allegedly, Maybe. [00:52:57] Allegedly, maybe is really good. [00:52:58] It's cute. [00:52:59] What happens in Allegedly? [00:53:00] Maybe. [00:53:01] I think it's like a meet cute with a marshal. [00:53:03] With a marshall? [00:53:05] Okay. [00:53:06] I don't know. [00:53:07] Maybe not. [00:53:07] Maybe it's like a hard-nosed, like, kind of girl boss who then, you know, softens up. [00:53:16] With her client? [00:53:18] No, I don't know. [00:53:19] That would be inappropriate. [00:53:20] We got to work it out. [00:53:21] Allegedly, maybe. [00:53:24] Well, I was thinking of one called 12 Horny Men. [00:53:27] And it's a bunch of guys who are in a bathhouse case, the jury, and they got to decide. [00:53:33] But they're like, maybe we should try some of this pauperist and this oil out on each other. [00:53:37] Oh, man. [00:53:37] Like, this gay shit. [00:53:39] We should convict them all. [00:53:40] But your musk is so. [00:53:44] Oh, you smell so. [00:53:45] Oh, your chest. [00:53:47] Oh, man. === Hand Across the Neck Motion (01:20) === [00:53:48] And then they hook up. [00:53:50] That's awful. [00:53:51] Okay. [00:53:51] Getting the young Chomsky is very rare doing the hand across the neck motion for me. [00:53:57] Okay. [00:53:57] Well, listen. [00:54:00] Today was an interesting one. [00:54:02] I did also. [00:54:04] No, I do want to say I met Via Marlin, who has struck up a strange relationship with him. [00:54:11] The lead investigator, like the private eye, essentially, the private dick for Ghalain Maxwell's team, a guy named James Harkins. [00:54:19] And I got to tell you, a terrifying individual. [00:54:23] Really? [00:54:24] Freaks me the fuck out. [00:54:25] Yeah. [00:54:25] An imposing and freaky ex-cop who I believe is the kind of guy that if you have harmed Maxwell, then her team's going to send him after you. [00:54:37] So look up all your little dirty secrets. [00:54:40] If he was tailing me, I would just grab that tail wrapper on my neck and hang myself in the nearest tree because he was a scary motherfucker. [00:54:49] But anyways, we'll be back tomorrow. [00:54:52] I'm Liz. [00:54:53] My name is. [00:54:55] My name is Blaise Baldwin, the crazy Baldwin brother. [00:54:59] No murders. [00:55:01] We are, of course, joined by Young Chomsky, the producer, and the show is called True Anony. [00:55:08] We'll see you next time.