True Anon Truth Feed - 👁️ Ghislaine Maxwell Trial: Day 8 👁️
Aired: 2021-12-09
Duration: 58:48


=== Welcome To Day Eight (05:32) ===

[00:00:00]  You you'd you you start.
[00:00:02]  I don't want to.
[00:00:03]  Wait.
[00:00:04]  Maybe I do want to.
[00:00:06]  What do you want to say right now?
[00:00:07]  I want to say, welcome to day eight.
[00:00:14]  Does that work?
[00:00:27]  Absolutely.
[00:00:28]  You're wonderful.
[00:00:28]  Wonderful.
[00:00:31]  You just messed up saying absolutely.
[00:00:33]  Yeah, I don't listen, lady.
[00:00:35]  You just almost used the B word.
[00:00:37]  Yeah, beautiful lady.
[00:00:38]  Oh my God.
[00:00:40]  Yes, welcome.
[00:00:41]  And I'm about to use another.
[00:00:42]  I saw your little, I saw it like almost coming out.
[00:00:46]  Listen, I'm about to use another B word right now.
[00:00:48]  And this is a B word that actually a lot of people like to hear.
[00:00:53]  My name is Brace.
[00:00:56]  I'm Liz.
[00:00:56]  Hello, everyone.
[00:00:57]  The L word.
[00:00:59]  Yes, the L.
[00:01:00]  No.
[00:01:02]  And we're joined by producer Young Chomsky here.
[00:01:05]  And you are, we are the Truan word.
[00:01:09]  Word.
[00:01:10]  Word.
[00:01:11]  Word up.
[00:01:11]  Remember what you're saying?
[00:01:12]  No, that's not working for you.
[00:01:14]  You're going to retire that one right this moment, young lady.
[00:01:17]  That's awful.
[00:01:18]  That's the first and last appearance of Liz saying that on the bottom.
[00:01:21]  Delete that, please.
[00:01:22]  Nope.
[00:01:24]  Overruled and vetoed.
[00:01:26]  Welcome to day eight of the, I'm about to say the trial of Truanon, although Truanon has faced its trials and tribulations during this, most notably being Liz's arrest for felony.
[00:01:38]  Well, I'm not going to say what it is, but felony mild endangerment.
[00:01:42]  Yeah, I almost, again, you almost said felony murder, which just really is taking the joke too far.
[00:01:46]  This is just a lie that you were saying.
[00:01:48]  Okay, wait, before we start, a couple things I want to mention.
[00:01:51]  It's a Murata.
[00:01:52]  That is, I don't know.
[00:01:55]  I find it interesting.
[00:01:57]  I don't know.
[00:01:57]  Maybe some folks at home, as the radio people say, will also find it interesting.
[00:02:03]  But Ghillaine Maxwell, day eight, finally emerges in color.
[00:02:09]  Much like Brace Felden, she wore a red top today.
[00:02:15]  Although hers was still a sweater, a knit.
[00:02:18]  But yeah, this is the first time we've seen Ghillain with a pop of color.
[00:02:22]  Yeah, she was looking very festive.
[00:02:26]  Yeah.
[00:02:27]  Yeah, much like yourself.
[00:02:28]  Her Christmas, or excuse me, her Christmas.
[00:02:30]  Well, it's her Christmas too, considering she is Protestant.
[00:02:34]  Her birthday is coming up, which is on Christmas.
[00:02:36]  Yes.
[00:02:37]  By the way, no Jew would be born that day.
[00:02:39]  Just want to make that clear.
[00:02:40]  She is Protestant.
[00:02:42]  But her birthday is coming up, so it could be like a little, you know, a little hint at that.
[00:02:47]  Maybe don't forget to give me some presents.
[00:02:49]  Yeah.
[00:02:49]  I don't think it looks great on her.
[00:02:51]  Nothing has so far.
[00:02:52]  Yeah.
[00:02:53]  Another little tidbit of information for my Foodies out there.
[00:03:01]  Hello?
[00:03:06]  Pardon?
[00:03:08]  The chef at Cafe Lorenzo has quit.
[00:03:11]  Now he's come to work for me in my home.
[00:03:15]  Now, this is.
[00:03:17]  I've given him a cine.
[00:03:19]  Cynic sinus cure.
[00:03:21]  This caused great distress.
[00:03:23]  Yeah.
[00:03:24]  For a little bit of time until people figured out or remembered that they don't really care much for Cafe Lorenzo.
[00:03:30]  The food is notably tough to digest.
[00:03:34]  Here's hoping that they, you know, there's a labor shortage out there, so not sure, entirely sure.
[00:03:39]  Perhaps Lorenzo himself will make an appearance.
[00:03:42]  But until that point, I promise I won't update you with who's working there.
[00:03:47]  I'm sure no one cares.
[00:03:49]  Every day during the trial, I have been bringing an array of eight pot pies with me.
[00:03:54]  And I lay them all out on the grand banquet table down in Cafe Lorenzo, and I stick one finger in each so they won't be shared by any interlopers.
[00:04:02]  And then I slowly, starting at the edge of the crust, drag my jab of the hut-like tongue.
[00:04:09]  Not because of our shared corpulence, but because of our shared tongue similarities.
[00:04:16]  That's why I'm making the comparison.
[00:04:17]  Around the rim of the pot pie, slowly dissolving it with the acids that I emit until I reach the center, and then I slurp it all up as it has become sort of a slurry-like substance in one sip.
[00:04:32]  I feel like, now I don't know which pot pies you bring, but I feel like quail is one of them.
[00:04:38]  Quail pot pie.
[00:04:40]  And veal pot pie.
[00:04:43]  Spatto pot pie.
[00:04:45]  What about mince meat?
[00:04:48]  Mint and sweet meat.
[00:04:50]  Let's start.
[00:04:51]  All right.
[00:04:51]  All right.
[00:04:51]  So we're going to, if you're just tuning in, that is our.
[00:04:56]  We call, he's got a third.
[00:04:57]  Well, actually, he takes up about four or five mics.
[00:05:00]  But that's our special guest, the gourmand.
[00:05:03]  Speaking of some other errata having to do with the Maxwell family, Isabel Maxwell.
[00:05:09]  Yes.
[00:05:10]  Who, by the way, wandering around like a blind crow in the middle of the house?
[00:05:14]  Just like a hot car through the halls.
[00:05:18]  Every federal court.
[00:05:20]  Every time I go into the Southern District of New York courthouse, I'm like, did I buy a mansion or did I inherit one from an uncle I never spoke to?
[00:05:28]  Absolutely.
[00:05:29]  Because there is a scary ghost running around these homes.

=== Instagram Overflow Drama (03:22) ===

[00:05:32]  An Edwardian, like, you know, baroness.
[00:05:36]  Yeah.
[00:05:36]  And she refuses to respond to anyone's cat calls or whistles, which is actually true.
[00:05:42]  She won't, she won't make comments.
[00:05:44]  And today, friend of the pod, Marlon Edinger, cornered her in an elevator, not in a Me Too type situation.
[00:05:50]  I know what you're thinking, and started asking her questions.
[00:05:53]  She said she refused to even acknowledge him.
[00:05:55]  And then, of course, being the urbane sophisticate that he is, remembers that both she speaks French and he himself speaks that pedophilic tongue.
[00:06:04]  And so he asked her, he introduced himself and then she said, I won't be commenting in French.
[00:06:11]  So if you want to get to her, start speaking another language because you'll spook her.
[00:06:15]  Wow.
[00:06:15]  He spooked her so badly that instead of getting off at her floor to go to the courtroom, she actually got off on our floor and wandered into the overflow room and stood around again, like some sort of the last sparrow that Malcolm was trying to catch.
[00:06:34]  She was haunting the hall.
[00:06:36]  She's, yeah, just this hunched figure in a beret and a vest.
[00:06:40]  And I winked at her.
[00:06:43]  I meant to mention this to you earlier, but I gave her a wink.
[00:06:47]  Yeah, you and Marlon got one and no response from her.
[00:06:50]  Yeah.
[00:06:51]  You got to wink in French, that's why.
[00:06:53]  Yeah, that's both eyes.
[00:06:54]  That's a me too, by the way.
[00:06:56]  Anyways, that was, so there was also just strange vibes this morning in the courtroom.
[00:07:01]  One of the overflow rooms had some sound issues.
[00:07:03]  So there was a lot of cue people at first in the morning.
[00:07:08]  And then there's some followers, I believe, of a mommy blogger who is Instagramming this.
[00:07:14]  Yeah, so there is an Instagram influencer that is from Los Angeles who's here for the trial.
[00:07:21]  And I don't mean like Epstein Q influencer.
[00:07:24]  I mean like an Instagram like mommy blogger, influencer, lifestyle person.
[00:07:30]  She has like 480,000 Instagram followers.
[00:07:35]  And 480,000 plus one, because I accidentally followed her from the podcast.
[00:07:38]  I just did an Instagram account instead of my own one.
[00:07:40]  Yeah.
[00:07:41]  Can you unfollow?
[00:07:42]  I did.
[00:07:43]  Okay.
[00:07:43]  I sent her a couple.
[00:07:44]  What's that?
[00:07:45]  Winks.
[00:07:47]  Anyway, she like, I guess she Instagram that she was coming to the trial and has been posting like insane, always stories too.
[00:07:58]  You know how those, you know, those types that post like a thousand stories?
[00:08:03]  I found out that it's called caterpillaring.
[00:08:06]  What?
[00:08:06]  Yeah, because it's got all the dots at the top.
[00:08:08]  They call it caterpillaring.
[00:08:10]  Huh.
[00:08:10]  Isn't that weird?
[00:08:11]  Yeah.
[00:08:12]  I don't know any of these terms.
[00:08:13]  Anyway, so she's been posting it.
[00:08:15]  It's like, oh, I'm inside.
[00:08:17]  Like, I'm going to go in.
[00:08:18]  She paid lying people Because she's a fucking Instagram girl.
[00:08:22]  She's not getting paid for being a lying guy and then just taking the spot.
[00:08:27]  Oh, great move.
[00:08:28]  Yeah.
[00:08:29]  Great move.
[00:08:30]  Yeah.
[00:08:30]  The old switcheroo.
[00:08:31]  Because, you know, that's the reason a contract.
[00:08:33]  But yeah.
[00:08:33]  Tricked you.
[00:08:34]  But so a bunch of her acolytes have been rolling up, right?
[00:08:37]  Yeah.
[00:08:37]  So there's like a bunch of, I don't know how else to say this, but like Kendall Jenner-ass looking Instagram girls who flew out from LA and are like trying to hang out with this Instagram influencer, but then sitting in the overflow room because they don't have lines.

=== Corroborating Testimonies (12:29) ===

[00:08:55]  Like they can't get in the courtroom.
[00:08:56]  You know what I mean?
[00:08:57]  It's a very, it's like a very weird dynamic.
[00:09:00]  People should understand that trials are boring.
[00:09:04]  I mean, yes, they are.
[00:09:08]  Like, I mean, there are, of course, occasionally.
[00:09:10]  I think it's interesting, actually.
[00:09:12]  Even the boring stuff I find interesting.
[00:09:14]  Me too, but that's because, I mean, A, like, we know who most of the people are.
[00:09:17]  Yeah, we've can follow it pretty well.
[00:09:21]  But like, if you're coming into this and not really knowing who like Juana Lessie is or like what the importance of, you know, I don't know, Vysaski talking about how him not seeing any girls and anything like that.
[00:09:32]  It's like, I can imagine you'd be pretty bored during great sloths of this.
[00:09:38]  Especially if you're not like, I don't know, if you're not like detailed, like taking detailed notes because you have to do something later.
[00:09:45]  I don't know.
[00:09:45]  It just seems like it's not very riveting television for sure.
[00:09:49]  Yeah.
[00:09:49]  And also Marshall Watch again, the Marshall, a new one this time, fell asleep again.
[00:09:53]  Oh, but then we had a hard-ass marshal in the afternoon.
[00:09:56]  He got it.
[00:09:56]  He was just the lunch break guy.
[00:09:57]  Yeah.
[00:09:58]  I was like, bro, chill.
[00:09:59]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:09:59]  The guy yelled at him back, which I was, wow.
[00:10:02]  Yeah.
[00:10:02]  Anyways, today was a sort of flurry of witnesses making their appearance in the morning.
[00:10:09]  Mostly just really to corroborate the victims here.
[00:10:14]  One to corroborate, it was sort of a long back and forth between the prosecution, the defense, and the judge.
[00:10:22]  I think before actually the jury even came in.
[00:10:24]  The jury was, one member of the juror was very late today and they had a train problem, I guess.
[00:10:31]  Classic New York story.
[00:10:32]  Classic New York story.
[00:10:34]  And so the trial didn't really get going at 10 a.m.
[00:10:38]  Yeah.
[00:10:39]  And so the only place with trains that people actually ride a lot.
[00:10:42]  I guess there's a couple other cities, but not that many of them.
[00:10:45]  Yeah, they've all been hawked off from it.
[00:10:48]  I purchased most of DC's train lines.
[00:10:50]  But no, so the trial didn't actually get going until about 10 a.m.
[00:10:55]  You know, with the jury in the room and witnesses being called to the stand and all that.
[00:10:58]  And so there was a lot of time for prosecution, defense to sort of have it out in front of the judge, including about some documents, whether they could include them, whether they were proof that Virginia Roberts at the time, now, of course, Virginia Jeffrey actually ever worked at Mar-a-Lago by proving them with a certain document, insurance documents, I believe, of her father.
[00:11:19]  They brought in, I believe, a woman who was a property manager at Mar-a-Lago.
[00:11:24]  She just was somebody who could corroborate whether Virginia worked there or not.
[00:11:27]  She was really, she was in and out.
[00:11:29]  I mean, the main witness this morning was Sean, who was we talked about.
[00:11:32]  Carolyn's boyfriend.
[00:11:34]  Yes.
[00:11:34]  At the time.
[00:11:35]  Ex-boyfriend.
[00:11:36]  Ah, yes, ex-boyfriend.
[00:11:38]  And he's the one, just to remind people: Carolyn says that he's the one who she was dating when, and she met Virginia through, who introduced her to Epstein.
[00:11:49]  Yes.
[00:11:50]  So Sean was friends with Virginia Roberts.
[00:11:53]  He actually apparently went to Survivor's Charter School with her.
[00:11:56]  Wait, Virginia?
[00:11:57]  Survivors?
[00:11:58]  Yes.
[00:11:58]  Survivors Charter School.
[00:12:00]  Wait, who's naming a school survivors?
[00:12:05]  Listen, you know me.
[00:12:07]  Just general survivors?
[00:12:08]  I'm one of the foremost charter school activists in the West and East of the Mississippi.
[00:12:15]  No idea.
[00:12:16]  This one had nothing to do with it.
[00:12:17]  And she is a survivor.
[00:12:19]  Yes.
[00:12:19]  It's very weird.
[00:12:20]  I don't like that.
[00:12:21]  So Sean was friends with her.
[00:12:23]  He was a bit older than Carolyn.
[00:12:25]  Like I mentioned, he was 17 and she was 14, or I think she was actually 13 when they started dating.
[00:12:31]  Dude, what?
[00:12:32]  I don't know, man.
[00:12:32]  I knew a ton of people.
[00:12:34]  Kids need to not do that.
[00:12:36]  Listen, when I was in high school, I had a girlfriend who was not in high school.
[00:12:40]  She would come pick me up from high school in her car, and then we'd go, yeah, I was in an apartment.
[00:12:45]  I don't know about that.
[00:12:46]  I knew about it.
[00:12:47]  I didn't date anyone in high school.
[00:12:48]  Well, I did.
[00:12:50]  I was not cool, but I went to an alternative school.
[00:12:53]  I went to, you know, how there's gifted kids.
[00:12:55]  Imagine if they were like, you actually have been given the gift of severe learning disabilities and/or a lengthy criminal record, so you can't go to the regular public school anymore.
[00:13:04]  That was the one I went to.
[00:13:06]  Okay.
[00:13:08]  But an illiteracy rate so high that the Cubans wouldn't have been able to conquer it had they taken it over.
[00:13:17]  But so, yeah, they she went to high school with Virginia Roberts went to high school with Sean.
[00:13:26]  They were friends, sort of, you know, Carolyn gets brought into the friends group.
[00:13:29]  And, you know, like we detailed yesterday, you know, in our testimony, Virginia brings her over to Jeffrey Epstein's house.
[00:13:36]  And we, we actually got a lot of really clear, direct corroboration of Carolyn's story from Sean.
[00:13:42]  That was like to the point where like he was using, he was like, um, basically using the same exact, not same exact language as her, but it was like, it was, I mean, I, I mean, you know, I'm no lawyer, but I couldn't have dreamed for a better corroborate witness.
[00:13:57]  You know, he basically said the same exact things that she did in terms of her age, in terms of, you know, coming out with money, in terms of like how many times she went over there.
[00:14:07]  I mean, it was like all the timeline stuff matched up.
[00:14:10]  It was good.
[00:14:11]  So, like he mentioned, or like Carolyn mentioned yesterday, he would actually get calls because he had a cell phone.
[00:14:17]  Well, sort of one that he shared with Carolyn.
[00:14:19]  He would actually get calls from Epstein and I believe Sarah Kellen and Ghelaine Maxwell asking for and scheduling appointments for Carolyn to come over.
[00:14:30]  I also brought another girl over there.
[00:14:33]  I mean, it's, I mean, his is really part and parcel with those like original Florida stories that like brought a lot of people into this, right?
[00:14:39]  You know, this sort of like extended network of very young people kind of like going over there with one another, the boyfriend sitting outside.
[00:14:47]  Really, you know, really dark stuff.
[00:14:49]  But, you know, he talked about having the kid with her, going away.
[00:14:53]  You know, again, like it was, it was extremely concise and clear, corroborating testimony from him.
[00:15:01]  Obviously, you know, the prosecution once again sort of tried to preempt the defense by bringing up his own struggles with addiction and the law.
[00:15:09]  He got arrested in Louisiana for felony meth possession, which rang a little ding in my head because guess who got arrested in San Francisco for felony meth possession?
[00:15:18]  Although San Francisco, they take, I got into drug court, so it was easy.
[00:15:22]  But he got arrested for also having a gun at one point, did three years in prison until I think August of 2020.
[00:15:29]  Might have the month wrong on that, but pretty recently.
[00:15:32]  Yeah.
[00:15:33]  Says he doesn't talk to talk to Carolyn really at all, has basically no relationship with her.
[00:15:38]  But he came out and he gave, you know, he gave really like solid, clear testimony.
[00:15:42]  Good for him.
[00:15:43]  Yeah.
[00:15:43]  A very sons of anarchy type character.
[00:15:48]  But after that, they had Epstein's, a woman who basically not house sat, but managed his house while he was gone in Palm Beach.
[00:15:55]  So she wasn't there.
[00:15:56]  Nicole Hess, she wasn't there when he would be there, but would go over and like let in gardeners and stuff and basically corroborate a lot of Wadalessi's testimony and just generally added more like strength to a lot of a lot of the testimony that's appeared so far about the house.
[00:16:12]  The next guy we heard from, and actually the last guy, because my God, the cross-examination of this guy took about two hours.
[00:16:21]  At one point, too, Alice and Nathan kind of made a, I don't know, a little bit of a joke at his expense where he was like, oh, I didn't realize how late it was.
[00:16:29]  And she was like, I mean, it feels later.
[00:16:32]  Yeah.
[00:16:33]  I was like, ooh.
[00:16:35]  Yes, this took, I would say, this felt longer than two hours.
[00:16:39]  I'm just thinking this actually took.
[00:16:40]  Yeah, it took all afternoon.
[00:16:42]  Yeah, all afternoon.
[00:16:43]  This was the bulk of the day.
[00:16:45]  Today was a bit of a slog, I think, in the afternoon.
[00:16:49]  Yeah, so it's David Rogers who we heard from Larry Vyskoski on one of the first days, who was Epstein's pilot/slash co-pilot.
[00:17:00]  And this is David Rogers, his co-pilot slash his pilot.
[00:17:04]  Don't totally understand how this worked, but they basically were like, you know, tag teaming the planes.
[00:17:10]  Yeah, that sounds wrong.
[00:17:12]  Yes.
[00:17:12]  In this context, but so they're their little duo that both worked for Epstein.
[00:17:18]  But at some point, one was a pilot and one was a co-pilot.
[00:17:20]  And then halfway through their tenure with Epstein, they switched roles.
[00:17:25]  Yes.
[00:17:25]  Which I really just, I'm just, you know, again, if we had public question hour, I would be like, what's up with that?
[00:17:31]  Why'd you guys switch?
[00:17:32]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:17:34]  You know, general interest.
[00:17:35]  Well, we did find out that David Rogers is actually the one.
[00:17:39]  So you remember that mystery we were talking about is actually where did Larry come from?
[00:17:43]  Like, how is he recommended to Epstein?
[00:17:44]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:17:45]  So Larry Vysowski actually came to Epstein through David Rogers, according to David Rogers, through David Rogers.
[00:17:51]  David Rogers himself came to Epstein via the limited.
[00:17:57]  So Leslie Wexner's giant corporation, Leslie Wexner, the man that, you know, Epstein worked with, worked for, had power of attorney for.
[00:18:07]  His company, the flight department, according to David Rogers, which probably a more official name for that that he did not say, is the one that recommended Rogers for the position.
[00:18:19]  And then Rogers got Vysowski on board.
[00:18:21]  However, they had both worked together at a real estate firm.
[00:18:26]  Glincher.
[00:18:28]  Glincher.
[00:18:28]  That's it.
[00:18:29]  Yeah.
[00:18:29]  G-L-I-N-C-H-E-R.
[00:18:32]  Yeah, Glimpscher.
[00:18:34]  Glimpser.
[00:18:35]  Glimpscher.
[00:18:35]  Glimpscher.
[00:18:37]  Which is a terrible name for a company.
[00:18:38]  I hate saying Glimpscher.
[00:18:39]  I mean, it's named after a guy.
[00:18:40]  Yeah, Glimpscher.
[00:18:42]  It's funny because then he, the defense lawyer, when he was, you know, cross-examining him, asked him, so you were working for a company that bought and sold airplanes.
[00:18:53]  Did you catch that?
[00:18:54]  I did catch that.
[00:18:55]  And then David Rogers, which is also, by the way, classic pilot name.
[00:19:02]  Yes.
[00:19:02]  Yeah, he was the other kind of like less hot shot pilot that like, whereas Vysaski was that classic southern, like, yeah, you know, this is your pirate speaking.
[00:19:13]  Your captain speaking, I will be.
[00:19:15]  Oh, we're about to hit some turbulence, maybe booking seatbelts.
[00:19:18]  This guy, this guy was more paternal.
[00:19:22]  Yes.
[00:19:22]  But he corrected Ghalain's lawyer and said, no, no, it was a real estate development company.
[00:19:30]  And I wonder what information Ghalain's lawyer had, because it's not like he, I don't think he got it wrong, to be honest.
[00:19:37]  Yes.
[00:19:38]  Something a little funny about that.
[00:19:39]  I want to say just a couple other things about David Rogers, the man, before we talk about what he said.
[00:19:47]  So Vysaski, brown hair, brunette, David Rogers, a blondie.
[00:19:54]  Little interesting duo.
[00:19:55]  Yes, absolutely.
[00:19:57]  He was very well coached.
[00:20:00]  Now, I understand there was some confusion when I spoke earlier about the pilot's creed.
[00:20:07]  But, and I tried to, again, explain it to Brayce silently in the courthouse.
[00:20:12]  You just wrote the pilot's creed in your notebook and then tapped it a bunch with your pen.
[00:20:16]  Yeah, and made a knowing nod to you.
[00:20:19]  Like, you can't see.
[00:20:22]  Okay.
[00:20:22]  Yeah.
[00:20:22]  The pilot's creed.
[00:20:24]  No, so this is what I'm saying.
[00:20:25]  Like, he was so precise.
[00:20:28]  Yes.
[00:20:29]  And so.
[00:20:31]  Like, I've been thinking about this a lot.
[00:20:32]  I don't know if you've been thinking about this, but the way I've been like, oh, I wonder how I would be on the stand if I would answer questions like they do.
[00:20:40]  I copatooed.
[00:20:42]  Yeah, but I'm like, I don't know if, I think that I would just be like, oh, yeah, that's generally correct.
[00:20:47]  I don't know if I would be like, no, you said one thing wrong, which means your entire idea is wrong.
[00:20:53]  Well, the thing is, the thing is with Rogers, too, in sharp contrast to Vysaski, he was really precise about some of the dates he remembered.
[00:21:02]  Well, yeah, because as it comes out later, he had reviewed that material prior with the prosecution and said, yes, I remember, because as the defense really hammered home, and we got to say, the guy that they put up, again, that like jocular kind of Matt Gatesy type fellow was, I don't know, that's who he reminds me of in the way that he sees it.

=== Important 1991 Redaction (14:54) ===

[00:21:24]  What Gates would want to be.
[00:21:25]  Yeah, totally.
[00:21:28]  He's very, very good.
[00:21:30]  Yeah.
[00:21:30]  But it made it clear that, okay, yes, you remember after reading it, what you're remembering is based on your knowledge of what you see on this paper rather than your memory of the event actually occurring.
[00:21:42]  Yes.
[00:21:42]  If that makes sense to people at home.
[00:21:45]  Yeah.
[00:21:46]  So, I mean, that's, that's very like lawyer, not lawyery, but like courtly.
[00:21:51]  Yeah, totally.
[00:21:51]  In the fact that it's like, well, you're remembering see, not that you're seeing it, but it's not your actual memory that you just hold organically in your head.
[00:21:59]  Yes.
[00:22:00]  Yeah, he was.
[00:22:02]  I mean, so it's from Rogers that the flight logs are produced, like the, like many of the ones that we've seen come from David Rogers.
[00:22:10]  They were subpoenaed during a civil suit, I think, first in 2009 by the plaintiffs against, I believe, Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:22:19]  Yes.
[00:22:20]  And then also maybe I believe that some of that was in the Virginia Roberts.
[00:22:24]  Yeah.
[00:22:26]  Sarah Kellen.
[00:22:26]  It was with Sarah Kellen.
[00:22:28]  Yeah.
[00:22:28]  So they, so these are, these are many of the ones that we've seen, but we did learn.
[00:22:32]  And so the thing is with this is, in fact, Judge Nathan was also admonished the prosecution a little bit for over-redaction because, brother, if you want to see a damn black box, you don't have to turn on Netflix.
[00:22:47]  Or the plane, the plane.
[00:22:48]  Is that?
[00:22:49]  That's where the black box says.
[00:22:50]  You could have made the airplane connection joke because the pilot.
[00:22:53]  What's the show on Netflix?
[00:22:54]  Birdbox.
[00:22:55]  No, dude, what?
[00:22:56]  That was like a movie.
[00:22:58]  No, the one that's like, all my British men in the cell phone.
[00:23:02]  What?
[00:23:03]  You know what I'm talking about.
[00:23:04]  I can see young Chonzu trying to tell me.
[00:23:06]  Black Mirror.
[00:23:07]  Oh, Black Mirror.
[00:23:08]  Wait, what was that impression?
[00:23:09]  I'm a British person.
[00:23:10]  Anyway, so, yeah, I mean, you want to see some goddamn redactions.
[00:23:15]  There was a lot of redactions done today.
[00:23:17]  And that's, I'll be real with you.
[00:23:19]  Not a lot of new information came out.
[00:23:21]  I mean, obviously, we've seen many of these flight logs before, but like, you can't actually see who flew on any of the flights that they displayed because they displayed whole pages of it.
[00:23:31]  Yeah, so they displayed whole pages and there's columns.
[00:23:34]  If you guys have seen the flight logs that have been released into the public domain, what they did is where those initials were that people try to make out and sometimes their full names, they just redacted the entire column regardless of whether or not those names were the victims who were asking to be anonymous.
[00:23:55]  Or even Jeffrey, Epstein, and Ghillain's names.
[00:23:58]  Well, yeah.
[00:23:58]  So what the judge says is that, no, what you need to do before you like publish these into public record is you need to go back and only redact the victims' names who are requesting anonymity.
[00:24:11]  Yes.
[00:24:12]  Like Jane, right?
[00:24:13]  Exactly.
[00:24:15]  So the whole thing was annoying.
[00:24:16]  But I will say there were new flight logs.
[00:24:21]  And that's what was extremely frustrating.
[00:24:23]  And this was big news.
[00:24:25]  So we saw, because basically David Rogers testifies that he began working for Epstein in 1991.
[00:24:36]  And I believe in July of 1991.
[00:24:39]  And so that's when the flight logs begin.
[00:24:42]  Now we see for the first time that Ghillain and Jeffrey took a flight together.
[00:24:48]  And in fact, we know that because this is one of a specific flight that the prosecution asked about and asked him to identify the names listed that were redacted on the screen in front of us.
[00:24:59]  Yes, correct.
[00:25:01]  So Ghillane and Jeffrey took a flight together in July of 1991.
[00:25:11]  Yes.
[00:25:12]  This is brand new information.
[00:25:13]  Up until this point, we were under the impression that Ghillain and Jeffrey met after Robert Maxwell, her father's death, which was in November 1991.
[00:25:27]  Yes.
[00:25:28]  So Robert Maxwell dies on November 5th, 1991.
[00:25:32]  Shortly after there is a, this Jewish society in New York City holds a memorial for him and a sort of celebration of Ghillain's mother at the same time.
[00:25:44]  From that celebration comes the very first photo that we have of Ghillain and Jeffrey hanging out together.
[00:25:52]  And so obviously they're sitting right next to each other in the photo.
[00:25:55]  Like they seem pretty chummy.
[00:25:57]  Clearly, they had some kind of relationship before that.
[00:26:00]  And, like, you know, she was a New York society person.
[00:26:03]  He was a rich man in New York.
[00:26:04]  Obviously, that we knew they knew each other, right?
[00:26:08]  But her flying on the plane with him that in July prior to that, that was that was brand new information.
[00:26:19]  And that was, that was almost one of the most, I believe, one of the most important things we found out today, really.
[00:26:24]  And it's really interesting because this is something that has been driving me crazy.
[00:26:28]  Yeah.
[00:26:29]  And we were talking about this in the hallway with our British friend who's, I'm just going to say, and I mean this in a positive way, a bit of a gourmand type.
[00:26:38]  Incredible guy.
[00:26:40]  Incredible.
[00:26:42]  Really, really just, I you should get him on the bike.
[00:26:45]  Elbow pads.
[00:26:46]  Oh, he's so.
[00:26:47]  He said, my dear Watson to you.
[00:26:49]  I know.
[00:26:49]  He called me Watson.
[00:26:50]  He called you Watson.
[00:26:51]  He's more of a Sherlock than a Watson.
[00:26:53]  But he is British.
[00:26:56]  Well, he gets dips.
[00:26:57]  He's played British.
[00:26:58]  He gets dibs.
[00:26:59]  Okay.
[00:26:59]  So this is what drives me crazy.
[00:27:02]  We don't know how Jeffrey and Ghelain met.
[00:27:05]  Yeah.
[00:27:05]  And I don't mean like, oh, maybe they met at a party or like, oh, they just bumped into.
[00:27:11]  It's like, no, you don't just meet someone or like it's not important information or something.
[00:27:15]  It's just like, who cares?
[00:27:16]  Oh, they just met at some.
[00:27:18]  Like, no, this is crazy.
[00:27:19]  We need that information.
[00:27:20]  It's so central to understanding this story.
[00:27:24]  How they met is absolutely, were they introduced?
[00:27:27]  Who introduced them?
[00:27:28]  Why?
[00:27:29]  Like, Jeffrey wasn't a society.
[00:27:30]  They weren't running in the same circles.
[00:27:32]  He was, you know what I mean?
[00:27:33]  He's a banker.
[00:27:34]  Yeah.
[00:27:35]  Like, well, how did, how did this happen?
[00:27:37]  Well, I mean, this is, and we were talking to the British chap earlier about it.
[00:27:42]  Although chap sort of implies a younger man, the gentleman we were talking to earlier.
[00:27:46]  You know, I was sort of going on about this in the first few days of the trial is before he was pushed off his boat by Mossad, Robert Maxwell.
[00:27:57]  I mean, very famously, especially if you're British, you know this, he ripped off all of his companies, you know, a lot of money, was a lot of fraud going on.
[00:28:07]  But there's also a lot of questions about maybe he had some stashed money away, especially concerning Bulgaria.
[00:28:14]  He, I know, he had a lot of investments there.
[00:28:17]  You've been running my ear off about Bulgaria.
[00:28:19]  I'm going to go to Bulgaria.
[00:28:20]  That's the most anyone has ever talked about Bulgaria ever.
[00:28:23]  Sorry.
[00:28:24]  Sorry that I'm a communist.
[00:28:26]  But yeah, so he had a lot of money hidden away, stashed away different places because, like Epstein, the guy was a man who moved his shit around, right?
[00:28:36]  Like he moved a lot of money around.
[00:28:38]  Now, this is what we were talking about with the British guy.
[00:28:41]  It's like them meeting is actually like when she met Epstein is really important because Epstein, what was his quote, job for Wexner besides having sex with him?
[00:28:52]  It was moving money around.
[00:28:54]  Yeah, being a money guy for him.
[00:28:56]  Creating a ton of shell companies, hiding money, moving money.
[00:28:59]  Precisely, right?
[00:29:01]  And so that, like, that, that could be a really important sort of like thing to hone in on is, is this connection, right?
[00:29:09]  And we know that Maxwell relied, Robert Maxwell relied on his daughter to go take care of some documents that were aboard the Lady Ghelane, you know, and he used her to run money to New York to his lawyer and envelope, or really to do this insane thing with some shares and an envelope and run money back.
[00:29:30]  It's complicated, but we'll get into it in another episode.
[00:29:34]  It was, you know, this is actually a pretty important link we're talking about here.
[00:29:38]  This July 1991 flight was shocking to me.
[00:29:43]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:29:44]  And it's interesting because the entire, I don't know, with everyone's testimony, and David Rogers even testified this to the same.
[00:29:54]  It's like, no one can actually pin down the nature and the exact timeline of Jeffrey and Ghillain's relationship.
[00:30:01]  Questions put to almost everybody and everyone.
[00:30:03]  Every single person is like, what did you, what, what was the vibe?
[00:30:08]  Is basically what everyone's trying to ascertain.
[00:30:10]  What's the vibe?
[00:30:10]  It's like, you know how, you know how, fellas, you know how after a couple of days, women sometimes are like, well, what are we?
[00:30:16]  And I'm like, stepmother, stepson.
[00:30:20]  But with Jeffrey Epstein, like a lot, well, excuse me, with the Glenn Maxwell trial, a lot of the questions put to witnesses.
[00:30:28]  In fact, almost every witness, besides people who like maybe have only never met them, like the financial directors of schools and stuff like that, has been like, what was the nature of their relationship?
[00:30:38]  Because that plays a pretty important role in this, right?
[00:30:41]  I mean, so far, what we can gather is that like, okay, well, we found out that she might have had her own place in Palm Beach, although God knows I've never really heard that.
[00:30:51]  If that's been reported on, I totally passed me by because that was news to me.
[00:30:56]  But the Palm Beach house, they shared a bed.
[00:31:00]  She kept her own residences, but rich people do shit like that.
[00:31:03]  That's also a very classic Woody Allen thing, you know, separate apartments across the park, you know, like in the movie.
[00:31:10]  Okay, I was thinking of a different, I thought you were making a classic.
[00:31:12]  Well, there's that too.
[00:31:13]  I mean, that's I'm just going to leave that hanging out there.
[00:31:15]  But I mean, the, no, the classic, you know, we see each other from across the park.
[00:31:21]  Whatever.
[00:31:21]  What is that in Manhattan?
[00:31:24]  And I know there's also one person listening right now who the mention of Woody Allen perked up his ears.
[00:31:28]  And I'm going to text you later.
[00:31:33]  But yeah, no one can really pin it down.
[00:31:35]  And I have my suspicions that once the defense takes over, we're going to hear a lot more testimony trying to get exact dates and real hard facts about Ghillen's love life.
[00:31:49]  Yes.
[00:31:50]  We heard a little bit because like we said, the Gates guy, Defense lawyer Gates-esque.
[00:31:57]  Yeah.
[00:31:58]  Basically, it was like, isn't it true that in 2004, she was in a committed relationship with the founder of Gateway Computers?
[00:32:04]  Yes.
[00:32:05]  So we're going to hear a lot more about that, I believe.
[00:32:06]  Yes.
[00:32:07]  The founder of Gateway Computers, who, by the way, she took a crew, a little yacht trip with Chelsea Clinton.
[00:32:16]  Yes.
[00:32:17]  And so that I would love, I would love for that to come out.
[00:32:19]  Maybe Chelsea herself will get called to the stand.
[00:32:21]  Another perfect question for public question hour.
[00:32:24]  By the way, that happened after Epstein's arrest.
[00:32:26]  Yes.
[00:32:27]  His Florida arrest.
[00:32:29]  Something else that we got from the pilot.
[00:32:32]  So a lot of the testimony barring the actual, like some of the actual flight log stuff, really mirrored the, or rather the questioning coming from the defense really mirrored the question that they were asking the questions that they were asking Vysaski.
[00:32:46]  Such as like, did you see anything happening?
[00:32:49]  Now, Rogers is clearly like a little more sharp and also, in my opinion, less close to Epstein than Vasaski.
[00:32:57]  Vysaski seemed like his boy and Rogers doesn't.
[00:33:02]  Yeah, for instance, Vysaski, you know, like had like a little house in Zorro Ranch.
[00:33:09]  Like he had all these cars in all of Epstein's cars in his name.
[00:33:14]  He like, you know, Epstein bought him a vehicle.
[00:33:17]  Totally.
[00:33:17]  Whereas the old.
[00:33:18]  There was much more like dude's rock, like dark dude's rock energy there.
[00:33:23]  Yeah.
[00:33:23]  And this was very much like, oh, no, sir, I'm a pilot.
[00:33:27]  I've taken an oath to serve as with my pilot's creed and I shall not break my pilot creed bond.
[00:33:34]  You know?
[00:33:36]  But it became clear, and actually, this is sort of towards the end, so I'll back up in a sec.
[00:33:41]  But at the end, at the end of the defense's cross, they asked him the same series of questions that they asked Vysaski, which is basically like, you know, did you feel comfortable around Ghelane?
[00:33:54]  Did she ever, you know, sort of seem like a predator?
[00:33:58]  Your daughter was how old in 1994?
[00:34:00]  He said seven.
[00:34:01]  How old in 2004?
[00:34:02]  He said 17.
[00:34:04]  Says you never saw Ghelane Maxwell do or say anything that you believe that led you to believe that Ghelane Maxwell was like, you know, helping Jeffrey Epstein do what he did.
[00:34:13]  And then a couple other questions of that nature.
[00:34:15]  And I knew what was coming next because I knew they were about to arrest.
[00:34:18]  And then prosecution gets up there and asks the same series of questions.
[00:34:22]  And I got to say, Comey, this is the most emotive I've heard her.
[00:34:25]  Oh, yeah.
[00:34:25]  She seemed like annoyed.
[00:34:27]  She seemed annoyed, but also you can tell she probably.
[00:34:30]  She had a gotcha.
[00:34:32]  She was real like gotcha, gotcha performance.
[00:34:35]  Exactly.
[00:34:36]  So, you know, obviously, you know, Rogers' child is the same age, especially in 2004, as some of these other children that are involved in this.
[00:34:45]  And so she gets up there and she asks him, so she's re-examining David Rogers.
[00:34:50]  Did you let your daughter massage Jeffrey Epstein?
[00:34:53]  No.
[00:34:54]  And did he ever give you 18 million dollars?
[00:34:57]  No, I didn't like her affect with this.
[00:35:00]  No, she I could tell what she was going for and she didn't do a great job.
[00:35:03]  I don't think she stuck the landing.
[00:35:05]  No, no, no, she didn't.
[00:35:07]  But for a lot of this, you know, there was one big important thing that I mentioned in our episode about Vysaski.
[00:35:15]  Number one is that minor victim number one, Jane, right?
[00:35:19]  Jane has the same first name as one of Epstein's girls.
[00:35:24]  And I by girls, I mean one of the women that like actually like really worked for him and was part of his crew rather than somebody that kind of like came and he exploited somebody.
[00:35:35]  You know, this woman's case is a pretty sad one, you know, to be totally honest with you.
[00:35:42]  I think in many ways she's different than a lot of the other girls that are involved in this.
[00:35:46]  The rumor is that Epstein, I would say likely through Brunel, purchased her from, just to give as few identifying details as possible, from a, it's an Eastern European, although not really country, at a very young age.
[00:36:00]  And then, you know, she was sort of part of his retinue.
[00:36:05]  She's described in some of the abuse, I think, I believe by Carolyn, I think, was described having an encounter with this woman.
[00:36:16]  So she has the same first name as Jane.

=== Jane Number Confusion (02:42) ===

[00:36:18]  Now, as I was saying during the flight logs portion, or like during questioning over the flight logs with Vysaski, Jane's first name, her real first name, is listed in the flight logs only as her first name.
[00:36:32]  Now, the dates actually match up in the first batch of them to the dates that Jane, the victim, said she was on the plane.
[00:36:40]  However, because it's her first name, defense gets up there and they're like, well, isn't it true that Epstein had an assistant with that same name?
[00:36:48]  Vysaski says yes.
[00:36:49]  And it's like, well, isn't it true that's just her first name?
[00:36:52]  Did you see Jane, the victim, get on the flight?
[00:36:55]  So sort of the implication there, I mean, obviously this doesn't hold up under scrutiny, but they're trying to at least put a little bit of gum in the works for the jury to have just the slightest bit of doubt there.
[00:37:08]  Yeah, right?
[00:37:08]  Oh, it could just be a girl with another name.
[00:37:11]  Like the one that worked for him.
[00:37:13]  Exactly.
[00:37:13]  Now, I was screaming internally because the dates on this couldn't be more fucking different.
[00:37:21]  Jane, minor victim number one, what she's talking about happened in the early to or the mid-early 1990s.
[00:37:29]  Jane number two, the Jane that worked for Epstein, doesn't come into the picture until the 2000s.
[00:37:36]  Now, for the life of me, I still do not understand why during recross, because they did recross examine Vysaski, like I just mentioned, that the prosecution did not ask him when he first met Jane number two.
[00:37:55]  Or isn't it true that Jane number two started only started working for Epstein around these dates?
[00:37:59]  However, you want to phrase it.
[00:38:00]  But like, literally, their birthdays don't, it doesn't make sense.
[00:38:04]  The girl would have been too young to be in.
[00:38:07]  Yeah.
[00:38:08]  It doesn't make any sense.
[00:38:10]  However, during when the defense was basically trying to pull the same trick again today, like, couldn't it be either girl?
[00:38:17]  Rogers actually comes out and says, no, I didn't meet Jane number two until the 2000s.
[00:38:22]  And in fact, he gave them, I believe it was September 2004.
[00:38:26]  Yeah.
[00:38:26]  He said he gave the month.
[00:38:29]  And of course, our Gates, our Gates guy, you know, kind of rolled.
[00:38:33]  He pivoted very quickly.
[00:38:35]  He's a smooth operator.
[00:38:36]  He's a smooth operator.
[00:38:38]  But that was, that was, that was major.
[00:38:41]  And finally, someone got it.
[00:38:43]  And finally, the prosecution also brought that up during Recross, too, which I was, I was, again, baffled that that didn't come up the first time because it's so glaringly obvious that that's the case.
[00:38:55]  Yeah.
[00:38:55]  A couple other things the defense was good at asking him about, though was so yesterday.

=== Employee Tiers and Bots (15:19) ===

[00:39:01]  I don't know if we mentioned this when we were talking about Carolyn's testimony yesterday yeah, but a detail that she mentioned was that she saw a photo of Ghillain on Jeffree's wall where she was pregnant.
[00:39:11]  Yes now uh look we, we don't have any knowledge about this.
[00:39:18]  We, to our knowledge, we there's been there's never been any evidence that Gillian was pregnant during this time, and in fact, I believe it was Virginia Roberts who spoke about how Jeffrey and Ghillain wanted her to carry a baby for them.
[00:39:32]  Yes, so I don't really know what's going on there and unfortunately, I think the defense is really gonna pounce on it today.
[00:39:40]  They showed um Rogers, our pilot, David Rogers, a photo that we couldn't see, that has been rejected um, but I assume it was already in evidence.
[00:39:55]  So I believe it's one of the photos that was shown to the jury.
[00:39:57]  That was taken from the Palm Beach mansion, and he says, have you ever seen this woman?
[00:40:05]  This is after a series of questions about who the woman in the I believe the woman in the photo is, which I'll get to in a second and he kind of goes, oh, I've never seen her like that, which is, you know, funny.
[00:40:16]  And he says oh, you can see she's pregnant there, correct?
[00:40:19]  Yes, and so this is what I'm thinking.
[00:40:21]  They're this, they're showing him a nude photo that was found on the wall of a woman who's pregnant.
[00:40:28]  I believe, due to the line of questioning, that that photo isn't Ghillain but is in fact Eva Dubin.
[00:40:36]  Now, because previous to this he's asking them about the Dubins.
[00:40:40]  They appear in the flight logs a lot, both Eva and Glenn.
[00:40:43]  Yes Eva, of course, was Jeffrey's boyfriend we've talked about in like the 80s, when she was Eva Anderson.
[00:40:49]  Then she marries Glenn Dubin.
[00:40:52]  Jeffrey is Selena Dubin's godfather.
[00:40:56]  Okay, I this then got the old brain, you know, moving.
[00:41:03]  I don't know, moving and grooving.
[00:41:05]  I mean, it probably shakes around in there a little bit.
[00:41:07]  Yeah, it wiggles like in like a jog.
[00:41:09]  That's why people shake babies to make them smarter.
[00:41:11]  Yeah, like it's like you know, when you like go like this to jell-o-mold and it kind of like wiggles.
[00:41:14]  You can't see you, but yeah, oh, yeah, you poke a jello mold.
[00:41:17]  I've never done that, but I'm appreciate that that can be done.
[00:41:21]  Yes.
[00:41:22]  Um, anyway, I'm wondering who are the defense witnesses they're gonna bring up.
[00:41:30]  Okay, so you don't think the Dubins will testify.
[00:41:35]  I can't imagine.
[00:41:37]  I mean, they could be Sophina didn't testify.
[00:41:39]  I mean, by the defense are gonna bring up the Dubins.
[00:41:44]  Maybe that would be crazy.
[00:41:46]  That would be psycho.
[00:41:48]  I mean, not good for the Dubin's social standing.
[00:41:51]  We've still got, I mean, again, there's an estimated one day left of prosecution.
[00:41:55]  They said maybe it will go into Friday, but that's like that's only if something takes an insane amount of time.
[00:42:02]  Yeah.
[00:42:03]  And so we, we maybe, maybe it will go into Friday.
[00:42:08]  Um, yeah, I feel like it will in the morning, but then it'll wrap up.
[00:42:12]  Probably.
[00:42:12]  We still have Annie Farmer to go.
[00:42:16]  And Liz was saying Sarah Kellen, maybe.
[00:42:21]  Possibly, but I don't think so.
[00:42:22]  It's a wrap up.
[00:42:24]  Exactly.
[00:42:24]  That's the thing that's so crazy, too, is that basically when the prosecution announced that they were ready to close this week, everyone was shocked.
[00:42:34]  Like, the defense was like, wait, what?
[00:42:37]  And everyone in our room, of course, was like, whoa, and even Alice and Nathan seemed a little like, huh?
[00:42:42]  And so it seems as if, I mean, they've shaved apparently a ton off of their witness list and have, like, surprisingly so, it seems during as the trial has gone on.
[00:42:56]  Yeah.
[00:42:56]  Um, that seems a little concerning to me, but I'm no daughter of former FBI director.
[00:43:06]  What's his first name?
[00:43:07]  James James.
[00:43:09]  I just forgot it.
[00:43:10]  James Comey.
[00:43:11]  Liz, your current FBI special agent.
[00:43:17]  Uh, okay.
[00:43:20]  We can, we can, we can be, I mean, come on.
[00:43:22]  So, but I'm just like, anyway, government.
[00:43:24]  Yeah.
[00:43:25]  So it doesn't seem like there's a ton more witnesses that the prosecution is calling.
[00:43:30]  They're wrapping up this week.
[00:43:32]  The defense will be starting next Thursday.
[00:43:35]  Yes.
[00:43:36]  And I'm very curious to see who they're going to call.
[00:43:40]  You know, and if anyone, I mean, look, we're talking character witnesses.
[00:43:45]  If Ghelane isn't taking the stand herself, which again, that's on, I think that's still on the table.
[00:43:50]  We're definitely getting people testifying about her, like, like generally, like how great and how charming she is, which is brought up today.
[00:43:59]  Yeah.
[00:43:59]  Great personality, they keep saying, which is.
[00:44:04]  I don't know what that could be.
[00:44:05]  I'm expecting nothing and have no visitors.
[00:44:07]  Oh, my God.
[00:44:08]  Liz.
[00:44:08]  That just scared me so much.
[00:44:10]  That's the Beretta.
[00:44:11]  It also seems as if, I'm assuming that this is also going to happen.
[00:44:14]  We will be hearing from Mark Epstein, Jeffree's brother.
[00:44:17]  Yes.
[00:44:18]  The defense seems to be making that, laying that out, saying, who's Mark Epstein?
[00:44:22]  You know, kind of throwing his name out there.
[00:44:24]  Yeah.
[00:44:24]  My only suspicion about them calling the Dubins is because, like, basically, neither the prosecution or the defense are just like throwing out things if they're not going to try to like recall them later in a sense.
[00:44:36]  Like, they're trying to, you know, put stuff out there for the jury so the jury can be like, oh, yeah, I remember that name.
[00:44:42]  Oh, yeah, you, you know, you've said that before.
[00:44:45]  And in this context, okay, you're not just introducing some brand new thing that I have no understanding of.
[00:44:50]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:44:50]  They got to lay the damn foundation.
[00:44:52]  Yes.
[00:44:54]  Both legally and narratively.
[00:44:56]  So it seems like Mark Epstein will be called.
[00:44:59]  I would not be shocked to see the Dubins.
[00:45:02]  But yeah, I'm very curious.
[00:45:03]  Perhaps Vicki Ward herself shall take the stand in Ghelane's honor.
[00:45:09]  Yeah.
[00:45:10]  Yeah.
[00:45:10]  So, I mean, again, we're going to hear, I think today was just the first of many ex-boyfriends.
[00:45:15]  We're ex-boyfriend type people that we're going to hear from.
[00:45:18]  Yeah.
[00:45:18]  Oh, and then, of course, there's all, I, yeah, of course, all the witnesses that will be coming to dismantle the girl's testimony.
[00:45:24]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:45:25]  So prepare.
[00:45:26]  If the trial has made you mad so far.
[00:45:28]  Oh, man.
[00:45:29]  Think of it this way.
[00:45:30]  The prosecution has been calling the witnesses so far.
[00:45:34]  And that is going to change as of next week.
[00:45:38]  Yes.
[00:45:40]  Well, a couple of, so, all right.
[00:45:42]  You remember how I, I guess I actually didn't do that on this show.
[00:45:45]  I talked about this on Chappo.
[00:45:46]  But anyways, the Reddit thing.
[00:45:48]  It's all blurring to you.
[00:45:50]  we've talked a lot the past few days the Ghislaine Maxwell reddit mod thing is I don't there's no other way I can describe it other than reddit tier but Oh, are we talking tears?
[00:46:05]  Well, by the way, oh my gosh.
[00:46:09]  David Rogers said, and I looked at you, he said, Ghelane is Jeffrey's number two.
[00:46:16]  Let me.
[00:46:18]  So you said that means that she's the top employee, but she's number two.
[00:46:24]  I never said that Ghelane was not Jeffrey Epstein's number two.
[00:46:29]  Let me explain this to you as carefully as I can.
[00:46:31]  Three tier.
[00:46:32]  Number two, the second letter.
[00:46:33]  Let me explain this to you as calmly and gently as I can.
[00:46:39]  Jeffrey Epstein is not an employee of Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:46:44]  Technically, yes, he is, because he's both an owner and an employee for tax purposes.
[00:46:48]  Epstein.
[00:46:50]  In the terms, in the in the terms, Jeffrey Epstein is not an employee in the general sense.
[00:46:57]  Okay, maybe he technically is for tax purposes.
[00:46:59]  Well, then that means legally, then yes, he is in the way that things are laid out.
[00:47:04]  She is the number two to Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:47:07]  She is Jeffrey Epstein's number two in this sort of hierarchy here.
[00:47:11]  You can order stuff for tiers of employees of Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:47:18]  She is in the ultimate tier.
[00:47:22]  There is no tier above her because there are no employees of Jeffrey Epstein who outrank her.
[00:47:29]  Jeffrey Epstein does not an employee of Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:47:32]  That's the boss.
[00:47:33]  Jeffrey Epstein is number 15.
[00:47:34]  So that's A.
[00:47:35]  The boss is the top.
[00:47:37]  No, he's not an employee there.
[00:47:41]  I'm saying she is his number two in that colloquial sense, colloquial, whatever, how you pronounce it sense.
[00:47:46]  But she is, she's second, not second tier there.
[00:47:50]  She's just his number two because a number two is different than second tier.
[00:47:54]  She's second tier in, she's first.
[00:47:56]  Oh my God.
[00:47:57]  All right.
[00:47:57]  Moving on.
[00:47:58]  I win.
[00:48:01]  Moving on.
[00:48:03]  If you, the fucking like theory that Ghelaine Maxwell was a Reddit mod.
[00:48:08]  Oh, yes, this thing.
[00:48:09]  First of all.
[00:48:10]  Yes.
[00:48:10]  Frays really hates this.
[00:48:11]  I get that it has a lot of bullet points, and bullet points are like confusing to people because they think that that must contain some sort of, it's like, well, how can you shoot a bullet without any propeller?
[00:48:21]  Well, and it's bolded, usually.
[00:48:23]  Some parts are bolded.
[00:48:24]  That really confuses people because they're like, well, that means that that part's extra true.
[00:48:28]  Literally no proof of it.
[00:48:30]  And it's not congruent with her personality.
[00:48:33]  The most like attractive part of it is it stopped posting the day she got arrested.
[00:48:38]  Well, we do know she's a DC girl.
[00:48:40]  So true.
[00:48:40]  It does go in line there.
[00:48:42]  But like in terms of like actually aligning with what we know her like real interests to be and really with like her schedule and the way that she actually like operated in this world, not congruent whatsoever.
[00:48:54]  Granted, Ghelane was an early adopter of technology.
[00:48:57]  She did teach her father how to use like the earliest computers that her family got.
[00:49:02]  However, there's no actual indication that Ghelane Maxwell was this like insane Reddit user.
[00:49:08]  Now, that is not to say that that mod is not a pedophile.
[00:49:12]  In fact, I will go so far as to say that him being a Reddit mod almost assures us of that fact.
[00:49:21]  But there's absolutely no proof Ghelane is behind it.
[00:49:25]  Leading me in to the second thing.
[00:49:28]  I don't give a fuck.
[00:49:29]  And by the way, if you're listening for trial news, the trial, we're gaveled out of that.
[00:49:35]  Now, we're into the leather jacket on Sig in the Mouth Rant Zone.
[00:49:40]  Welcome to the Rant Zone.
[00:49:44]  I don't give a fuck that that fake ass Maxwell trial tracker account got suspended because it was just some guy who bought 300, 400, 500,000 bots.
[00:49:56]  Really?
[00:49:57]  Yeah.
[00:49:59]  Because someone sent me the Instagram account, but I didn't look at it, but it looked like a girl's name.
[00:50:03]  Anyways, people were like, oh, God, look, the Twitter's suspending them for truth.
[00:50:07]  It was just like, they were just like, it's what, here's what they were doing.
[00:50:11]  And listen, as a classic scam artist, I was immediately spotted this.
[00:50:16]  They are doing this like they're buying a bunch of bots so that when you see the account, you're like, damn, people follow this.
[00:50:22]  I'm going to follow it too.
[00:50:23]  They are linking to their sub stack, which is just like literally copy-pasting information that other people wrote.
[00:50:31]  Like in some cases, like literally like the Reddit shit.
[00:50:34]  Like it's like not them doing it.
[00:50:36]  They're saying they're the trial tracker.
[00:50:37]  They're not at the fucking trial.
[00:50:40]  And they're going to, what they're trying to do is they're trying to get you to subscribe to the sub stack and then they're going to try to sell you a paid subscription.
[00:50:46]  Now, I was correct about that because their account got suspended, which as they say on their other sub stack, literally for buying bots, they said for manipulation, which is, that's what that is.
[00:50:59]  Yeah.
[00:51:00]  And now they're trying to say that, oh, well, if you really want the truth, you can't get it from me on Twitter because I'll get suspended because they don't want you to find out the truth.
[00:51:10]  You should for just literally, they say this, for the price of one cup of coffee a month, you can subscribe to my sub stack and get it.
[00:51:18]  The thing that really annoys me, okay, first of all, I didn't look at it that much.
[00:51:23]  I don't think I even followed it.
[00:51:25]  I don't know.
[00:51:26]  But it was like tweeting out a bunch of stuff that was fake.
[00:51:30]  Yeah.
[00:51:30]  Yeah.
[00:51:30]  And getting people mad about stuff that wasn't happening.
[00:51:33]  Like, you know, shit about how the trial was not, you know, was going to be canceled the day before or something.
[00:51:39]  Yeah, they said it was the trial was ending tomorrow, which is like.
[00:51:44]  That's wrong.
[00:51:44]  That's just not true.
[00:51:46]  And I just, it makes me mad because it's, I don't know, a lot of people were following it, not just bots.
[00:51:52]  Yeah.
[00:51:52]  But a lot of people were following it.
[00:51:53]  And then, you know, they're like, oh, how else do we get updates?
[00:51:56]  It's like, dude, that's not, I mean, now I sound like a crazy person being like fake news, but it just really bothers me.
[00:52:01]  But then, I mean, I can just like ignore that, to be honest.
[00:52:04]  I'm just like, whatever.
[00:52:05]  I don't follow anybody.
[00:52:06]  So I don't see what they say.
[00:52:07]  There's so many of those accounts, you know, not Epstein specific, but it's like, whatever, fine.
[00:52:12]  Okay.
[00:52:13]  But then it's the fucking like content people.
[00:52:18]  I'm not going to name names because I don't know why.
[00:52:21]  But like streamers, YouTubers, bloggers, podcasters, whatever, fucking quote tweeting or like putting a picture up that's like, oh, it got banned.
[00:52:34]  And they're just like, the Twitter account that was following the Epstein case was banned by Twitter.
[00:52:41]  Boom.
[00:52:42]  Mic drop.
[00:52:43]  And they're just like, boom.
[00:52:44]  And it's like, no, dude, you're just, first of all, you're fucking lying.
[00:52:48]  You're lying by omission because you're fucking saying that it got banned because it was like too close to the truth or whatever.
[00:52:56]  And it's like, that's not what happened.
[00:52:58]  That's not what happened.
[00:52:59]  And you have plausible deniability because you're, oh, I'm not saying anything.
[00:53:03]  I'm just throwing it out there.
[00:53:05]  What happened?
[00:53:05]  You make your own fucking connection.
[00:53:07]  Fuck you.
[00:53:08]  Yeah.
[00:53:08]  Fuck you.
[00:53:09]  And you're doing it so that you have something stupid to fucking talk about on your YouTube channel.
[00:53:13]  And get some fucking retweets.
[00:53:14]  Yeah.
[00:53:15]  And get retweets and get your clout or whatever.
[00:53:18]  And it's like, I see you.
[00:53:20]  And then you get these assholes like Eric fucking Weinstein, who was doing the same thing.
[00:53:25]  And it's like.
[00:53:26]  The worst Weinstein brother.
[00:53:27]  I hate this guy.
[00:53:29]  I hate all of those.
[00:53:30]  I call that they're like confusionists.
[00:53:32]  Yeah.
[00:53:32]  You know, and they come in and they say, like, oh, look, I'm just like a, I'm just a guy who cares about, you know, everything being fair and honest.
[00:53:41]  But it's like, dude, you've like, you fucking knew Epstein.
[00:53:45]  Yeah.
[00:53:46]  Like, very few people met Epstein that like I have ever interacted with.
[00:53:52]  I mean, I've never interacted with Eric Weinstein online, but like, it's like that fucking Jenny Jardin shit.
[00:53:56]  It's like, sorry, dog, if you're part of this, yeah, yeah, no, you can't, like, but it's like, they're just like, oh, like, try to sell themselves as their own truth tellers.
[00:54:05]  And it's like, you're selling snake oil like the rest of them.
[00:54:08]  Maybe we, I don't know, whatever.
[00:54:10]  I just like, I fucking hate these people.
[00:54:13]  Boom, mic drop.
[00:54:14]  Yeah.
[00:54:15]  No, that's not what happened.
[00:54:16]  You're such a fucking loser.
[00:54:18]  Yeah.
[00:54:18]  You're such a fucking loser.

=== Jussie Journalists Shenanigans (02:56) ===

[00:54:20]  Anyways, they're all liars and sharks and not the kind except for Liz.
[00:54:25]  Well, no, there, I mean, there are people, like Marlon's following it.
[00:54:28]  You know what I mean?
[00:54:29]  And he's writing about it.
[00:54:29]  There's a ton of, the thing is, there's a ton of people who are writing about the trial.
[00:54:34]  Yeah.
[00:54:34]  But it's also like mainstream news is writing about it too.
[00:54:37]  Yeah.
[00:54:37]  Like it is actually.
[00:54:39]  It is actually big news.
[00:54:41]  The thing is, the facts can get out there, right?
[00:54:44]  Like it's not like it's not a myth.
[00:54:46]  It's not a hidden thing that like Bill Clinton was on the Lolita Express or, you know, none of this is like really like although names are out there.
[00:54:55]  People have access to them.
[00:54:56]  They've been reported on.
[00:54:57]  It's the analysis that you really do with a lot of that stuff.
[00:55:00]  And then digging into the actual connections between these people and what those connections might mean.
[00:55:04]  Because you can't, like, I'm not, you know, being one of those people.
[00:55:07]  You actually can't say that in whatever mainstream outlet if you really want to.
[00:55:11]  It's true.
[00:55:12]  Or even if you really wanted to.
[00:55:13]  Like, you can't.
[00:55:13]  That's just not how that works.
[00:55:15]  Yeah.
[00:55:16]  You also can't talk about the chef problems at Cafe Lorenzo.
[00:55:19]  No, you can't.
[00:55:20]  You can't.
[00:55:21]  And like, it's, it's, it's, well, actually, Cafe Lorenzo is pretty heavily featured on eater.com, which is owned, of course, by yours, truly.
[00:55:33]  But yeah, I mean, that's the thing.
[00:55:35]  And so it's like any of these fucking, there's a lot of people, and you gotta watch out for a lot of people who, whenever they see anything like this, they're just juicing for some retweets.
[00:55:43]  And you can smell them from a mile away.
[00:55:45]  I mean, especially if you got a big Jew nose like me.
[00:55:49]  You know, a lot of sharks and charlatans out there.
[00:55:54]  Jussie Watch, though.
[00:55:56]  I want to be, yeah, we're just talking.
[00:55:58]  Yeah, Jussie Watch.
[00:56:00]  So, I know, so much has happened.
[00:56:03]  Jussie took the stand again.
[00:56:05]  Yes, some great, by the way, some great courtroom sketches of Jussie.
[00:56:10]  Jussie took the stand again.
[00:56:12]  You posted that in Gourbod voice.
[00:56:14]  Jussie.
[00:56:16]  Jussie.
[00:56:18]  Jussie took a stand again.
[00:56:20]  I don't like Jussie in Gourbod voice.
[00:56:23]  Juicy.
[00:56:24]  Oh, my God.
[00:56:24]  Like a nice plump bird.
[00:56:27]  But yeah, Jesse took the stand again and admonished the prosecutor for using the N-word too much.
[00:56:36]  And he's still proclaiming his innocence so hard.
[00:56:40]  He was saying that I think he couldn't get on stage with a leash of keys after his attack happened because he didn't want to be seen as a guy who got attacked.
[00:56:48]  And yes, the courtroom was in tears.
[00:56:54]  But yeah, and we also, Liz and I and Young Chomsky especially have co-signed the BLM statement that was put out in support of Jussie.
[00:57:03]  We are, again, I should mention, we are founding members and technically co-presidents of journalists.
[00:57:11]  President and employees.
[00:57:12]  Of journalists for Jussie.
[00:57:14]  We are journalists for Jussie.

=== Journalists for Jussie (01:31) ===

[00:57:16]  So.
[00:57:17]  But we're not journalists.
[00:57:19]  Well, we are for Jussie.
[00:57:21]  But we're not journalists.
[00:57:22]  Yeah, but we're only.
[00:57:23]  Yeah, and we're talking about him.
[00:57:25]  We are.
[00:57:25]  So, because that's all just true that he didn't do it.
[00:57:29]  In fact, it was MAGA people.
[00:57:32]  Anyways, let's wrap this shit up.
[00:57:34]  We gotta.
[00:57:35]  My name is Brace.
[00:57:40]  So, so, all right, before we get to Young Chomsky, when I stalk the deserts, when I walk the deserts, Australian outback, and I see those large dinosaur bones sticking out of the sand.
[00:57:55]  Are you familiar with that, Elizabeth?
[00:57:57]  Large dinosaur ribs, perhaps, jutting out of the sand, creating little rivulets of shade?
[00:58:04]  Well, I am.
[00:58:06]  People think those are dinosaurs, but no.
[00:58:09]  Those are just genetically modified lizards that I've created and set loose to plumpen them up before I attack them with my chosen weapons.
[00:58:21]  The fork, the other fork, and the knife.
[00:58:26]  And of course, how could I forget my suit of armor?
[00:58:30]  The large white napkin tucked into my breast, covering my bosom like a handsome little bra.
[00:58:39]  And the podcast is produced by Young Chomsky.
[00:58:41]  We are true and on.
[00:58:42]  We'll see you tomorrow.
[00:58:44]  Wait, did I just do your thing?
[00:58:46]  Oh my god.
[00:58:47]  Bye-bye.