True Anon Truth Feed - 👁️ Ghislaine Maxwell Trial: Day 2👁️
Aired: 2021-12-01
Duration: 38:29


=== Day Two Welcome (02:51) ===

[00:00:00]  You're noisy.
[00:00:02]  In general?
[00:00:05]  Me, I just want to say before we get the episode started.
[00:00:08]  I thought we were not going to do the day two.
[00:00:10]  Okay, what?
[00:00:11]  Be cruel.
[00:00:12]  Look, me and a gal hushed you a couple times today because you're always rustling.
[00:00:18]  Lifelong women have been hushing me since I was.
[00:00:22]  You have your backpack has like 18 zippers that you're always opening and closing.
[00:00:26]  Yeah, I gotta get this.
[00:00:27]  You have these snack packs that are like rustling into your face.
[00:00:32]  I did open a cliff bar very slowly.
[00:00:34]  Oh my god, you tried to do it.
[00:00:35]  You're like, this will be more quiet if I do it slowly for longer.
[00:00:39]  This is the best thing.
[00:00:40]  That interview was going on for so long.
[00:00:42]  Me and this gal, this gal that's sitting next to me, we literally turn at the same time and go, just open it.
[00:00:48]  I did.
[00:00:48]  And I feasted upon it.
[00:00:50]  And then look who asked me for a nut later in the day.
[00:00:54]  you.
[00:01:11]  Welcome to day two.
[00:01:12]  I can't believe you went with a nut.
[00:01:14]  That was so gross.
[00:01:15]  That's literally what you ate.
[00:01:17]  Welcome to day two.
[00:01:19]  Now an authoritative man saying it here.
[00:01:22]  Welcome to day two of the Truanon Ghulane trial, which Liz is not letting me call Miss Trial.
[00:01:31]  Which, okay, fair enough.
[00:01:33]  My name.
[00:01:34]  No, we don't want to put that energy out there.
[00:01:36]  We do not.
[00:01:38]  My name is Judge.
[00:01:40]  You're judge?
[00:01:41]  Yeah.
[00:01:41]  Well, I'm jury.
[00:01:43]  And of course, we have here executioner Young Chomsky.
[00:01:46]  Welcome to Truanon.
[00:01:48]  Liz, we are fresh out the court.
[00:01:51]  Yeah, fresh.
[00:01:52]  Fresh out.
[00:01:53]  Uh-huh.
[00:01:54]  I actually am not feeling fresh.
[00:01:56]  Me neither.
[00:01:56]  I am wearing a lot of.
[00:01:57]  Did you take a shower this morning?
[00:01:59]  This morning?
[00:02:00]  Oh, my God.
[00:02:01]  How long do you think I spend awake in my hotel room before I go to the house?
[00:02:05]  You know, you'll feel more awake if you just pop right in the shower.
[00:02:08]  I'll feel more awake.
[00:02:10]  Some steam, ready to go, freshy, straight out the door.
[00:02:16]  I'm not going to feel more awake with less sleep, but.
[00:02:19]  You had enough sleep last night.
[00:02:21]  I got six hours of sleep last night.
[00:02:22]  I feel okay.
[00:02:23]  Hello, everyone.
[00:02:24]  Welcome.
[00:02:24]  Day two.
[00:02:26]  Yesterday, we left you on a bit of a cliff.
[00:02:31]  I almost said a bit of a cliff bar because you literally just said you need a cliff bar.
[00:02:35]  Check this out.
[00:02:35]  We left you on a bit of a plane hanger.
[00:02:37]  Oh, my God.
[00:02:38]  You like that?
[00:02:38]  Because we said that the prosecution introduced their first witness yesterday, Larry.
[00:02:45]  Larry Vysoski, or Lawrence Vysoski, nickname, as he said, Larry.
[00:02:49]  Yes, the pole.
[00:02:50]  Uh-huh.

=== First Witness Revealed (14:52) ===

[00:02:51]  Epstein, I know.
[00:02:52]  In fact, probably closely related to you.
[00:02:56]  Epstein's longtime pilot.
[00:02:58]  Yes.
[00:02:59]  One of his longtime pilots and uh, he opened up a little bit last, last night or yesterday, and then spent much of today.
[00:03:06]  It feels like night because it gets dark at like 3 p.m here and we don't leave the courthouse ever during the day.
[00:03:13]  We don't even go and check our phones or nothing.
[00:03:16]  It's like being in a casino.
[00:03:17]  You have no idea what time it is exactly.
[00:03:18]  Well, I do, because you know I can see it getting dark outside and there's a clue, you know there's a close.
[00:03:24]  Okay, so he started yesterday yes, but really the bulk of his testimony and the cross-examination, which is very interesting, was today.
[00:03:34]  Yeah, I have boy, a ton of notes here, but there's really just a few things that like stood out to me.
[00:03:42]  So first, at when he first came on the stand, I assumed they had like flipped him or something.
[00:03:47]  Yeah, that's what you mentioned which is interesting.
[00:03:50]  I don't know why I thought that, because I mean partially, because i'm like well, he must have seen so much stuff which he was obviously believe.
[00:03:58]  I mean he was Epstein's pilot for 30 plus years.
[00:04:02]  Yes, like he was his boy, he was his, he was his guy and this is the first, this is the definitely the longest he's ever been on the record.
[00:04:12]  I think he was deposed in a civil suit um before, but I, I he didn't say much if he did if he was um, but this was this was Larry on the stand and I gotta say I think we mentioned this maybe in our yesterday's episode, which I frankly have no memory of recording, but uh, very sort of uh military, bearing to the guy like every single pilot, southern accent.
[00:04:37]  Oh yeah also, he looks like you know how all pilots look?
[00:04:40]  Like cartoon pilots.
[00:04:42]  Yes yes, so he has the kind of like side part hair, real bushy eyebrows.
[00:04:48]  Yeah, you know he's Polish, um suit, broad shoulders.
[00:04:53]  Yes, very like straight and narrow.
[00:04:57]  Mr Bowing, phantom epaulettes yeah too, I mean, these guys are you know you want to talk about, like the PMC, professional class pilots.
[00:05:05]  Watch out for them.
[00:05:06]  Uh-huh well, he was I.
[00:05:08]  So something that intrigued me I think it was last night we found this out was that he was hired in 91 yes uh, by Epstein in Columbus oh, which I mean, you know, if you know anything about the Epstein stuff, should it should perk your ears up, because that, of course, is where the man named Leslie Wexner.
[00:05:30]  They should have a trial about that, I know frankly, and they should make it illegal, set a precedent.
[00:05:35]  You should not be naming your male child Leslie.
[00:05:38]  But uh, he was hired in 91 along with David Rogers, the uh, the other, which is the most pilot's name ever.
[00:05:45]  Oh my god, give me a break, both David Rogers And at first, I was like, oh my God, 91, Columbus, Ohio.
[00:05:55]  It's got to be some like, you know, Southern Air Transport or, you know, one of these guys.
[00:05:59]  No, I'm pretty sure it was Pan Am because that seems to be one of the biggest airlines that went to the bottom.
[00:06:05]  Pan Am was decommissioned in 1991.
[00:06:08]  And he mentioned that his airline was decommissioned.
[00:06:11]  And then that's when he applied for a job with Epstein.
[00:06:13]  Exactly.
[00:06:14]  And I got to say, he does look like a Pan Am man through and through.
[00:06:17]  Yes.
[00:06:18]  And we don't know that for a fact, but I mean, that's the biggest one that was decommissioned that year.
[00:06:22]  And so that makes sense.
[00:06:24]  So I was doing a little courtroom, what do you call it?
[00:06:29]  Eavesdropping there.
[00:06:32]  A little scuttlebutt.
[00:06:33]  Yes.
[00:06:33]  And Ghelane's old time, I gave me the man's fairly age, so I guess that works.
[00:06:40]  Ghelane's old friend Christopher Mason.
[00:06:43]  Yes.
[00:06:43]  The British.
[00:06:44]  He's British, which is like automatic old timey.
[00:06:47]  Yes.
[00:06:47]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:06:48]  And he and I also peed.
[00:06:50]  Every time I went pee today, that man was also in the urinal.
[00:06:55]  All right.
[00:06:56]  Just to let you know, just a little behind the scenes action.
[00:06:59]  And I tried.
[00:07:00]  He loves a pop of color.
[00:07:02]  Well, let me just say I tried to pop his color, couldn't see a thing.
[00:07:05]  But I was listening to him talk today, and he was like, he was saying how he had some friend that used to live down the road from Epstein in New York and was talking about how Epstein was such an early adopter of a private jet, although his first airplane was not a jet.
[00:07:22]  And even though he lived in such a small place in 91.
[00:07:26]  And I don't know.
[00:07:28]  I just thought that was sort of humorous because he was telling to these two guys who I believe were journalists.
[00:07:33]  And they were just like, okay.
[00:07:35]  I overheard him talking.
[00:07:36]  He was talking about how Ghulane took him to Epstein's townhouse.
[00:07:41]  Yes.
[00:07:41]  And he was like, oh, I was on the seventh floor or whatever where all of the offices were.
[00:07:47]  I think it was the sixth floor, maybe.
[00:07:49]  And he was like, and they were so grand.
[00:07:52]  And it was like, you know, it was the man who controlled the universe.
[00:07:57]  And I was like, who are you?
[00:07:58]  Who is this guy?
[00:07:58]  Get him out of here.
[00:07:59]  How did you get in here?
[00:08:01]  I know.
[00:08:02]  Should this, who?
[00:08:03]  He's just.
[00:08:04]  I deport this man.
[00:08:08]  Anyway, back to Larry.
[00:08:09]  Back to Larry.
[00:08:10]  So Vysowski hired by Epstein.
[00:08:14]  And again, like I said, I thought they turned him.
[00:08:16]  They didn't turn him.
[00:08:17]  So the prosecution, he was a prosecution's witness.
[00:08:20]  Yes.
[00:08:20]  He was the prosecution's witness.
[00:08:22]  And the first witness, they bring his ass up.
[00:08:24]  And he spends most of last night and a good deal this morning basically identifying Epstein's various properties, entering photos of those into the record.
[00:08:33]  And describing in detail when you enter them what you see on the left, then what you see on the right, what's ahead of you to your other left, and then to your other right, and then turn around and, hey, look to your left, and there's this.
[00:08:46]  It's like, my God.
[00:08:49]  I mean, I hate to say it was a lot.
[00:08:52]  It was a lot.
[00:08:53]  Like, the way he, I don't think I've heard a man say approximately this many times since I was on the Howard Stern micropenis measuring contest in 1998.
[00:09:03]  Baba Bowie.
[00:09:04]  Yeah, he, yeah, he walks through all the properties.
[00:09:06]  That took forever.
[00:09:06]  The really interesting stuff.
[00:09:08]  Well, there's a couple interesting things.
[00:09:09]  What?
[00:09:10]  Some of the most interesting stuff was the way that he, when he was asked to describe Ghillain.
[00:09:17]  Now, there's a couple different ways he described Ghillane, and particularly Ghillane's relationship with Epstein.
[00:09:24]  The first thing he said, and he walked this back later, was he described Ghillain as Jeffrey's number two.
[00:09:31]  Yes.
[00:09:31]  And it's so weird.
[00:09:32]  I was thinking about this.
[00:09:33]  I don't know if you felt this way, but we were sitting there and I was listening to him say that and the way that the prosecution was describing things.
[00:09:40]  And even later on, as, you know, later on today, we heard from victim number one.
[00:09:44]  And, you know, you hear these horrible things being recalled.
[00:09:50]  And it's like, it's fucking really trippy hearing all this stuff that you, like the two of us have talked about on this podcast.
[00:09:57]  Yeah.
[00:09:58]  Being said almost explicitly in the same words by like professional people in a professional legal state.
[00:10:04]  Yeah.
[00:10:04]  Yeah.
[00:10:05]  Where it's like we have called Ghillain his number two and now that's in a, I don't know, it was like tripping me up.
[00:10:10]  It was weird too, because I mean, I'm sure some of you, you know, people who've really kept up with Ghillain these past years can recall how in a deposition she once gave, I think the Virginia Jeffrey civil suit, she was asked if Jeffrey Epstein was her boyfriend.
[00:10:26]  And she sort of says, well, at times I would have liked to think he was.
[00:10:30]  And I will say last night took him a long time in there because they described Ghillaine Maxwell.
[00:10:37]  Various people described her various different ways.
[00:10:39]  Took a long time to get the B-word around.
[00:10:42]  Look, they just need to project a big like neon sign that's blinking and it just says, it's complicated.
[00:10:48]  It's complicated.
[00:10:50]  Yes.
[00:10:50]  And boy, it does seem complicated.
[00:10:54]  Yeah.
[00:10:54]  And so they kind of, he kind of vacillates.
[00:10:56]  He goes back and forth.
[00:10:57]  He calls her Epstein's number two, but then he's like, oh, but I mean that in a house manager way.
[00:11:02]  Yes.
[00:11:03]  Not in a procure for underage sex kind of way.
[00:11:07]  Like he's very delicate in the way that he's putting things.
[00:11:12]  Yeah.
[00:11:12]  And he does seem to, and it's interesting because I've actually never heard someone really talk like this.
[00:11:19]  I mean, there's been articles that have mentioned this and they've mentioned that this is how sort of she was presented, et cetera.
[00:11:25]  But he really seemed to stress at certain points that she was Epstein's employee.
[00:11:32]  Yes.
[00:11:33]  And which is what the defense is really trying to stress.
[00:11:37]  Yes.
[00:11:37]  And he places her alongside the ranks of other employees, other employees, by the way, who all Certain people, there are certain two kind of classes of Epstein employees.
[00:11:48]  There are Epstein employees who were unindicted co-conspirators in the plea deal he took with Acosta.
[00:11:56]  And then there are Epstein employees who are usually foreign and who are not involved in these sort of things.
[00:12:06]  Exactly.
[00:12:07]  Yeah.
[00:12:08]  No, he definitely describes it as Ghillan was kind of the, in his words, the manager of all the other house managers.
[00:12:16]  Yes.
[00:12:17]  And so it was like she was overseeing the staffing and management of all of his different properties.
[00:12:24]  He talks about how she was outfitting the apartments or buying things, like deciding what drinks to put on the airplanes or outfitting the interiors of the airplanes, which, by the way, we looked at those interiors.
[00:12:37]  She's up.
[00:12:38]  I got to say, should be in federal maximum security death penalty type prison gallows for that alone.
[00:12:48]  For the decorating choices.
[00:12:50]  One thing I found interesting, especially we're talking about the plane, though, we did find that his office on the 747, 747, I think it was.
[00:12:59]  The Boeing.
[00:13:00]  The Boeing that he owned, his last place.
[00:13:03]  The office he had on that was called the Red Room.
[00:13:08]  You know what I would call my office?
[00:13:09]  I wouldn't call it that.
[00:13:10]  Call it the office.
[00:13:11]  No, although that's a nice little gift to our podcast with our twin people.
[00:13:15]  Yes.
[00:13:19]  But, you know, he talks about how Ghillane kept the horses at Zoro, that she was always busy kind of like running around managing all of these things.
[00:13:27]  And so he kind of like straddles this weird line of, oh, it was, you know, he calls it like, oh, I thought it was romantic.
[00:13:34]  They had a romantic relationship, but they never kissed her or hold hands.
[00:13:37]  But it was romantic, but platonic, but business, but labor.
[00:13:41]  Yeah.
[00:13:41]  But I don't know.
[00:13:42]  It was all over the, I'm saying, he was saying it was complicated.
[00:13:45]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:47]  But he, they really stress like, and it became very apparent just how close Vysaski was to all of this.
[00:13:54]  Because, okay, so he's got a place in Palm Beach, but he mentions that he flew Epstein.
[00:14:04]  And I wrote this down.
[00:14:05]  I wrote this down a couple of times because I'm like, I must have misheard this or something.
[00:14:09]  But he says that he flew Epstein probably every four days for about 10 years.
[00:14:15]  Yeah.
[00:14:16]  That is an insane amount of travel.
[00:14:18]  Well, and he worked for him for like 30 years.
[00:14:21]  Yeah, he worked for him for 91 to last flight to Teterboro.
[00:14:26]  Yeah.
[00:14:27]  But he just, I mean, I thought that was astounding.
[00:14:31]  Like, that's such a huge number of flights.
[00:14:35]  I mean, obviously there must be some weeks where he didn't do it, but like every four days.
[00:14:39]  But he would, so he knew all of Epstein's properties inside and out.
[00:14:43]  And he had a little place on Zoro Ranch.
[00:14:45]  And like, cause, you know.
[00:14:47]  Not even a little place.
[00:14:48]  What we found out was that Epstein gifted him 40 acres on the property of Zoro Ranch in New Mexico for him to build his own house.
[00:14:58]  Gifted.
[00:14:58]  Yes.
[00:14:59]  Epstein also paid for his daughters.
[00:15:02]  He has two daughters.
[00:15:04]  They are high school and college tuition.
[00:15:07]  Yes.
[00:15:08]  And he.
[00:15:10]  All of Epstein's cars were registered in Larry's name, which is very interesting.
[00:15:15]  And Larry said, I never thought of them as my cars, but I used them all the time.
[00:15:19]  He gifted me a Cobra.
[00:15:21]  Well, he was quick to correct a replica Cobra.
[00:15:26]  Yeah, there was a very, I don't know, funny moment where the defense attorney was questioning Larry and he's like, Larry, you're a bit of a car guy, right?
[00:15:38]  And Larry goes, I mean, just classic cars.
[00:15:42]  And it was like, oh, my God, what am I watching?
[00:15:45]  That's something.
[00:15:45]  So that's something that I was really, really noticed about this today is that the prosecution and their sort of rapport with Larry night and day from the defense, right?
[00:15:59]  Which makes sense to an extent.
[00:16:02]  The defense, okay, so the defense, the lawyer who was questioning Larry, by the way, was like a bro.
[00:16:08]  Yeah.
[00:16:08]  Yeah.
[00:16:10]  They were seeing eye to eye.
[00:16:11]  They were like, it was a meeting of the bros.
[00:16:13]  There was, there was, I didn't count one instance of jovial laughter when the prosecution was up.
[00:16:20]  Oh, no.
[00:16:20]  Many instances of there was some definite sort of like wink-wink dudes rock energy happening that it's really inappropriate for a trial.
[00:16:31]  They also, so, you know, all that's to say about Epstein gifting him all this stuff, because, I mean, it is, Epstein really treated this guy nice.
[00:16:43]  They were boys.
[00:16:44]  They were clearly boys.
[00:16:45]  This was his guy.
[00:16:46]  Like, this was his homie.
[00:16:48]  Yes.
[00:16:49]  And so, well, what the prosecution's asking is like, well, did you fly here?
[00:16:52]  Do you recognize these places?
[00:16:54]  And sort of like using him to kind of like give the lay of the land of Epstein's properties and stuff like that.
[00:17:00]  And also talks about, you know, flying to Travis City, Michigan in the 90s to, I mean, I presume that has to do with victim number one, which we'll get to.
[00:17:10]  But defense asks Vysoski, you never saw a female under 18, not with family.
[00:17:17]  Vysowski says, correct.
[00:17:20]  Now, that's literally not true because he actually in real life objectively did see that many times.
[00:17:30]  I mean, even just the ones that we have literally on the flight records, photographs of this exist.
[00:17:36]  Virginia Jeffrey, but also victim number one, and you know, other many, many other girls.

=== Never Saw RFK Jr. Victim? (10:32) ===

[00:17:43]  But we'll get to why he sort of says that in a second.
[00:17:46]  But he says, he says, no, I, you know, I never saw anyone under 18.
[00:17:49]  So he's never actually saw unaccompanied minors at all.
[00:17:51]  He never saw any sexual activity or any kind of like sexual anything on any of the three planes that he flew for Epstein.
[00:17:59]  Yes.
[00:18:00]  And then he was asked if he saw Jane.
[00:18:04]  No.
[00:18:05]  Who's Jane?
[00:18:06]  Jane is victim number one, aka sort of Jane Doe here, right?
[00:18:10]  Because we're not, they're not using her name.
[00:18:12]  We do know her name.
[00:18:14]  We're not going to use it, obviously.
[00:18:16]  But I'm only saying that because there's some other stuff I had to check, check out with Larry's story here after we got out of the trial today.
[00:18:24]  And let me tell you, the guy is up to his ears in it.
[00:18:28]  But, you know, Jane's name, he knows it.
[00:18:33]  He's given her name.
[00:18:36]  And he's asked if he ever met her.
[00:18:38]  And he says he can only recall one time when Epstein brought her to the cockpit and showed her around.
[00:18:44]  And this girl was likely around 14 years old at the time, 14, maybe 15 years old, but likely around 14.
[00:18:54]  And he describes her as a mature woman with piercing powder blue eyes.
[00:19:02]  And then later is reminded, he also said, I believe before the trial started, the government, that she had large breasts.
[00:19:11]  Yeah.
[00:19:12]  He seemed a little sheepish when he was reminded of that.
[00:19:14]  As he should be.
[00:19:15]  As he should be.
[00:19:18]  And he says that about, I can't remember, but he said that about another girl, too, that she looked over 18.
[00:19:24]  Oh, Virginia Jeffrey.
[00:19:25]  Yeah, he said that Virginia Jeffrey looked, he said that she looked like 20, like 20, 21, something like that.
[00:19:34]  He said, of my category.
[00:19:36]  That's how he described it.
[00:19:37]  She was of my category.
[00:19:39]  And I was like, I don't, I guess you're talking about adult versus child, but that's a very weird type.
[00:19:47]  No, he meant like, I don't know.
[00:19:49]  But yeah, he was being very, yeah.
[00:19:52]  But he was being very specific to say that he always, you know, he never saw anything untoward.
[00:19:58]  Everything was above the board.
[00:20:01]  Exactly.
[00:20:01]  And something else that maybe could rhyme.
[00:20:04]  Well, yeah, and it's, you know, they were saying to the defense, actually, I saw some people writing online, like, oh my God, Epstein's pilot names, names, you know, like Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, and stuff like that.
[00:20:17]  That was actually the defense attorney, Ghelane Max's side, where they named Christ.
[00:20:23]  It was all sorts of people.
[00:20:24]  I think I wrote them down.
[00:20:25]  It was, yeah, Prince Andrew, Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, which yeah, and then Larry refers to him as President Trump.
[00:20:32]  And I was like, I see you, pilot.
[00:20:34]  I know what's going on here.
[00:20:35]  You're a Trump guy.
[00:20:36]  Also, names people who are not Trump people don't call him President Trump.
[00:20:40]  They call him Trump.
[00:20:40]  Yes.
[00:20:41]  If you're a Trump guy, you call him President Trump.
[00:20:43]  Although it could just be as I called it, the pilot's creed, which is where you just defer to authority because of your, you know, you understand the hierarchy of whatever.
[00:20:53]  I'm a hotshot pilot.
[00:20:54]  I would never do that.
[00:20:55]  There's one thing: pilot's creed.
[00:20:57]  I almost got kicked out of the Navy for doing too many crazy stunts in my F-18.
[00:21:01]  Why were you doing that in the Navy?
[00:21:04]  It's like the gay version of the Air Force.
[00:21:06]  Should be in a boat.
[00:21:08]  No, the Navy has a fucking plane.
[00:21:10]  They got a crazier plane.
[00:21:12]  Also mentioned, and whether this, I did not know about RFK Jr.
[00:21:20]  Oh, yeah.
[00:21:21]  Said RFK Jr. was on the plane.
[00:21:23]  Yeah.
[00:21:23]  Did he mean John John?
[00:21:25]  No.
[00:21:26]  Said RFK Jr.
[00:21:27]  Yeah, RFK.
[00:21:29]  That surprised me.
[00:21:33]  But yeah, so name that.
[00:21:36]  But the point of the defense naming all of those people right there is: A, one, I think it's to throw sand in people's eyes a little bit to be like, that's what it's like.
[00:21:45]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:21:45]  So there'll be articles.
[00:21:46]  They're working the crowd a little bit.
[00:21:48]  Yes.
[00:21:48]  But also maybe, you know, some articles will mention.
[00:21:51]  You know, obviously people find that very attractive, which, you know, it is.
[00:21:55]  Duh.
[00:21:55]  We want to know the people involved in this.
[00:21:57]  Although none of these names, except for RFK Jr., are new.
[00:22:01]  I still got to double check that.
[00:22:04]  But mention that these people would demand privacy.
[00:22:09]  Yes.
[00:22:10]  So this was the whole thing that the defense was kind of pushing, which they also made a big stink out of asking him if Epstein let him use the bathroom in the back of the plane.
[00:22:21]  And he was like, yeah, Epstein, you know, Epstein would let me go anywhere.
[00:22:24]  He was always inviting me to the bathroom in the back, which I'm like, bro, that sounds kind of funny.
[00:22:28]  But the whole point and the whole point they were making was that there wasn't any point on the plane where Epstein was closing doors, requiring privacy, where, you know, Larry didn't feel free to go or obstructed his view.
[00:22:43]  He could see that things were here.
[00:22:45]  And if there were such famous people like President Trump and Bill Clinton and RFK Jr. and John Glenn.
[00:22:56]  John Glenn mentioned that was it was John Glenn they mentioned.
[00:22:59]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:23:01]  But those were the types that would, I mean, if anyone needs privacy, it would be insane.
[00:23:07]  Oh, they mentioned Kevin Spacey and Chris Tucker, too.
[00:23:10]  Yes.
[00:23:10]  Insanely famous people like that.
[00:23:12]  And yet there wasn't.
[00:23:15]  Yeah, even, yeah, yes.
[00:23:16]  Even though they were actually seemingly traveling with, wasn't Virginia Jeffrey?
[00:23:21]  There's literally photos of her giving Bill Clinton a back massage.
[00:23:24]  No, he's saying the point is if the, you know, if these people aren't requiring the kind of privacy, then why would Jeffrey Epstein?
[00:23:32]  Exactly.
[00:23:33]  One thing that I thought was where it's like, but you're on private jet, so that's already a level of privacy.
[00:23:38]  Yeah, and also, like, I'm sorry, if your boss who's giving you a Cobra, excuse me, replica Cobra, is doing something untoward in the bed he has on his plane.
[00:23:51]  Yeah, I'm like, yeah, you probably, if the doors are closed, you might not knock on it.
[00:23:56]  You know what I mean?
[00:23:57]  Like, that seems like a lavatory.
[00:23:59]  You know what I mean?
[00:24:00]  Exactly.
[00:24:00]  That did not.
[00:24:01]  Life's blinking.
[00:24:02]  Yeah.
[00:24:03]  And this is, they really, they went on.
[00:24:05]  They were kind of on this tip for a while.
[00:24:07]  Didn't seem very effective to me.
[00:24:08]  Yeah, it didn't seem very effective.
[00:24:09]  Yeah.
[00:24:09]  I mean, maybe, you know what?
[00:24:11]  I'm not a juror.
[00:24:12]  I don't know.
[00:24:13]  But wasn't convincing.
[00:24:14]  So the other thing I want to mention about Larry is that he did mention on more than one occasion.
[00:24:22]  In fact, he went, like we said, he went on detail over every single property, right?
[00:24:27]  And including Ghillaine's apartments.
[00:24:31]  Yes.
[00:24:31]  Yeah.
[00:24:32]  Yeah.
[00:24:33]  And he always mentioned that he installed audio visual equipment.
[00:24:39]  The man would not shut the fuck up about it.
[00:24:42]  I think he was very proud.
[00:24:43]  Yes, he seemed like he should be Larry the cable guy because of what he's installing in people's houses.
[00:24:48]  Gotta say, though, as a little man-to-man here with me and Larry, he kept saying home theater.
[00:24:54]  Now, that's a very 90s thing.
[00:24:56]  When people, I think, hear home theater, they think that like the rich people, like, you know, like Kardashian style.
[00:25:02]  Yeah, like, and it comes with like movie popcorn somehow.
[00:25:05]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:25:06]  They have like a popcorn machine or something.
[00:25:07]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:25:08]  Like Richie Rich.
[00:25:09]  I'm sure that Epstein had a version of that in some of his homes.
[00:25:12]  I don't think so.
[00:25:13]  I think it was just like a big flat screen.
[00:25:16]  Did definitely seem to just be describing a flat screen.
[00:25:18]  And like a sound bar.
[00:25:19]  Yeah.
[00:25:20]  Well, they didn't have those back then, but maybe a couple of Dolbies wired up.
[00:25:25]  I will say he did call Epstein an audiophile.
[00:25:29]  Yes, he called Epstein an audio file.
[00:25:31]  Saints.
[00:25:33]  Saints.
[00:25:34]  Like, you know, brother, just any kind of file, find a synonym.
[00:25:38]  Yeah.
[00:25:39]  You know, you don't want to be bringing that into here.
[00:25:42]  But no, no, far be it from me to give him any advice.
[00:25:45]  Speaking of Ghelane, though, and her apartments, he also mentioned something that I did not know before is that Ghelane actually, he says that she had her own private plane.
[00:25:55]  That this was just an offhand comment, but she that she owned one quarter of a share in a private jet.
[00:26:01]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:26:02]  And then he said it would be fair to describe that as her private.
[00:26:04]  She brought it off a brochure getting off the plane in Cancun.
[00:26:07]  Exactly.
[00:26:07]  And so I am very interested in that and will be when I have a little bit of free time because I have to go to bed in 45 minutes.
[00:26:15]  I am going to hunt something on that up because that's all the information we got.
[00:26:19]  It was just a quick little few lines there.
[00:26:22]  But he did say that she has a quarter share in a private plane.
[00:26:25]  Yeah.
[00:26:26]  The extensive audiovisual stuff also extended to Ghelane's apartment, which I thought was funny.
[00:26:31]  And, you know, of course, my little brain is like, yeah, we know there was extensive audio visual called cameras, bitch.
[00:26:38]  Yeah, but he wasn't talking about that.
[00:26:40]  He could have been.
[00:26:41]  No, he was like.
[00:26:41]  I thought someone should have pressed him on it.
[00:26:43]  He was like, this man was like, you will be able to watch DVD commentary on Blade, Blade Tube.
[00:26:50]  Like, he was, you know what I mean?
[00:26:51]  Like, this.
[00:26:52]  He also said when he was describing Little St. James, which again, I know this sounds weird, but it's so fucking weird to just sit there and be like, yes, on his island, Little St. James.
[00:27:01]  I'm like, they know about it, too.
[00:27:02]  But you could tell, but you could tell that everybody in the courtroom, like even serious journalists, is I don't know if there's any serious, oh, there was the NPR lady.
[00:27:11]  What are you talking about?
[00:27:12]  People in front of me.
[00:27:13]  I have a note in here that says, like, Brace is rustling and working the room.
[00:27:18]  You were like trotting around, like, chatting with the New York Times and NPR.
[00:27:22]  Well, listen, lady, unlike you, what I'm trying to do there is what I do is I ask every single person, like, so have you heard anything?
[00:27:32]  We shouldn't even say anything.
[00:27:33]  I don't say anything.
[00:27:33]  You know why?
[00:27:34]  I just listen.
[00:27:35]  Yeah, listen to the sound of your own pen scritch scratching, betraying your friend here, your closest, the only person who's take the bullets.
[00:27:45]  When he was talking about Little St. James, he said there was this building at the edge of the island that used to have a gold dome and everyone perked up.
[00:27:55]  And he goes, it was a library.
[00:27:57]  Yes.
[00:27:58]  Brother, that was not a library.
[00:27:59]  That was not a library.
[00:28:01]  But also, that's not the description we heard of it before.
[00:28:03]  It was supposed to just have like a piano in it.
[00:28:06]  I don't know.
[00:28:07]  Yeah.
[00:28:08]  It was actually a Protestant temple that Ghelane built to appease the God that she, the pagan god that she worships.

=== Guess What I Found (09:39) ===

[00:28:16]  There was also, there were a couple photos that were shown to us that were rare.
[00:28:20]  We got some rare Epsteins and some rare Ghelanes.
[00:28:23]  Yes.
[00:28:23]  And there was a photo of Epstein in front of the first plane that he bought that was not the Lolita Express, but was, I think it was like a Cessna or something.
[00:28:33]  It was a Cessna.
[00:28:34]  No, it was not a Cessna.
[00:28:35]  It was a fucking hawker.
[00:28:37]  Oh, yeah.
[00:28:37]  Okay.
[00:28:38]  Yeah.
[00:28:38]  Small little guy, but it had at the nose, it had a sideways JE logo on it, which I noticed immediately.
[00:28:47]  I cannot believe I missed that.
[00:28:49]  Yeah.
[00:28:50]  Smash mouth flames on the side.
[00:28:52]  Yeah, he had flame decals on his plane.
[00:28:54]  Yeah.
[00:28:55]  And both you, both you and style now.
[00:28:58]  Yeah.
[00:28:59]  You and the young lady sitting next to us both saw that.
[00:29:03]  Immediately.
[00:29:04]  I didn't see either of those things.
[00:29:06]  I was focused on Jeffrey Epstein, who was said to never have been touchy-feely with Ghelane, with his arm fully around boyfriend style.
[00:29:16]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:29:17]  Classic boyfriend pose, arm around the neck, or like kind of the collarbone of Sarah Kellen, and kind of nuzzling her hair with his mouth and nose.
[00:29:26]  Possibly in a pre- or post-kiss arrangement.
[00:29:30]  So I thought that was interesting.
[00:29:33]  Because Kellen came up a lot from people listening who Sarah Kellen is.
[00:29:39]  Sarah Kellen was one of the several of Epstein's assistants who were unlike Ghillain, sort of like known as fully just assistants, although obviously also participating.
[00:29:52]  C tier.
[00:29:53]  C tier.
[00:29:53]  So they're like, well, no, I would say Ghelane's A tier.
[00:29:57]  No, I would say Ghillain's A tier.
[00:29:58]  Oh, I was going to say Epstein's A.
[00:29:59]  Oh, well, I'm saying they're under.
[00:30:01]  So, okay, we're using different tier system here.
[00:30:04]  Epstein's outside the tier system.
[00:30:06]  He's on top.
[00:30:07]  The tiers are under Epstein.
[00:30:09]  Let's roll with that.
[00:30:11]  Okay.
[00:30:12]  You could say we have a two-tier tier.
[00:30:14]  I'm just saying, this makes more sense.
[00:30:16]  It doesn't seem right.
[00:30:18]  Anyways, they're B tiers.
[00:30:21]  But they're also basically all of them on Epstein's non-prosecution agreement that he signed.
[00:30:29]  So, and have been accused of participating in these crimes.
[00:30:35]  So the defense is wrapping up with Larry and they say, okay, so he gives you this Cobra, replica Cobra.
[00:30:46]  You know, you got the 40 acres at Zorro.
[00:30:48]  You know, he's been very generous.
[00:30:50]  He's paying for your kids' high school, private school in Palm Beach, but also their college tuition paid for.
[00:30:58]  And he says, like, okay, you know, in 2004, they were 14 and 11 years old.
[00:31:06]  They were always around Ghillane.
[00:31:08]  They were always around Jeffrey.
[00:31:10]  Like, did you ever feel uncomfortable?
[00:31:12]  And Larry is like, no, never.
[00:31:14]  And they said, would you ever have let your children like be around Ghillane and Jeffrey if you thought that something like if they were sexual predators?
[00:31:25]  Like if you had any inkling that Ghillain was helping Epstein sexually abuse girls, like would you let your daughters be around her?
[00:31:32]  And he said, absolutely not.
[00:31:33]  No way.
[00:31:34]  And then defense is like, boom, mic drop.
[00:31:38]  And then something strange happened.
[00:31:42]  No, not that strange.
[00:31:43]  Then the prosecution comes back.
[00:31:46]  So the first question, I thought this was a really strong move.
[00:31:49]  The first question that the prosecution asks Vysoski is, when your daughters were 14, did you let them give Mr. Epstein a massage?
[00:31:59]  And he answers in the negative.
[00:32:01]  And that they, that was, I thought, really effective.
[00:32:05]  One last thing here, too.
[00:32:07]  And I think we've mentioned this briefly earlier, is that they also kept, so this is, so, okay, yes.
[00:32:15]  I don't think we actually fully went into this.
[00:32:17]  Minor victim one.
[00:32:19]  He was asked if he had ever, because she's on the flight logs with her first name only.
[00:32:25]  And Mr. Vysoski was asked if he ever actually saw her back there.
[00:32:32]  You know, her name's on the flight logs, but was it really her?
[00:32:36]  Like, you know, do you know she was actually on the plane?
[00:32:38]  I know she was taken on the plane and shown the cockpit by Mr. Epstein, but that doesn't mean she necessarily flew on the plane, does it?
[00:32:46]  And he was like, well, I don't approximately, affirmatively, I do not know if she flew on the plane.
[00:32:54]  Right.
[00:32:54]  And then the defense asked, well, look, Mr. Epstein had an assistant with the same name who often was just put by her first name.
[00:33:02]  The same first name.
[00:33:03]  Same first name, who was put on the flight logs by just her first name, too.
[00:33:07]  Yes.
[00:33:08]  Like, could it be?
[00:33:09]  Like, riddle me this.
[00:33:10]  Couldn't it be that your memory, like, you've forgotten, it's been so long.
[00:33:15]  Oh, that it could have been the assistant and not victim number one, though they have the same name.
[00:33:21]  Yeah.
[00:33:21]  And Vysowski's like, well, yeah, I mean, I don't know.
[00:33:24]  I don't know if it was victim number one.
[00:33:26]  I cannot riddle.
[00:33:26]  It could be the assistant, you know?
[00:33:28]  I could have been the assistant.
[00:33:29]  Basically, sowing that doubt, even though I knew.
[00:33:33]  I was like, this is a total bullshitters move.
[00:33:36]  Sowing the doubt that, oh, well, maybe it's not the victim there.
[00:33:39]  Maybe it was just the assistant.
[00:33:40]  Right.
[00:33:41]  Now, the second question or close to it that the prosecution asked when they got their gut, they're back, their second round here, is they ask about the times when the victim was supposed to have been on the plane and the times when the assistant was supposed to have to work there.
[00:33:58]  And wouldn't you know it, which, of course, your boy who wrote I knew it in the little notes here already did.
[00:34:05]  Different decades.
[00:34:06]  Absolutely different decades.
[00:34:08]  Different decades.
[00:34:09]  And different girls.
[00:34:10]  Clearly different girls as well.
[00:34:12]  Yes.
[00:34:13]  So to sum up, Larry's a liar and he's protecting his own ass.
[00:34:18]  Yeah, this is the dark side of Dude's Rock.
[00:34:20]  Yeah.
[00:34:21]  Like you can see these are, this is the boy.
[00:34:23]  Like, I'm sorry, but we said this too.
[00:34:25]  We were at, we were at Cafe Lorenzo.
[00:34:28]  And I said, listen, you think Larry didn't get some on the side?
[00:34:34]  He'd been doing this for 30 fucking years.
[00:34:36]  You think he never dabbled in the company Inc?
[00:34:41]  I don't even know what he said.
[00:34:42]  Yeah, but I know what you mean.
[00:34:44]  He never sampled the wares.
[00:34:45]  I mean, yeah.
[00:34:46]  His boy's given him a Cobra replica.
[00:34:49]  Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:34:50]  And like, you know, you can buy someone's silence with money and with gifts and all this stuff, which certainly that would be enough.
[00:34:59]  Another good way to do that is to make them complicit.
[00:35:02]  Yes, because as a wise woman we met today said, men don't care about money.
[00:35:09]  Yeah.
[00:35:10]  And as I got to say back to her, lady, you've never met a Jew.
[00:35:19]  Oh my God.
[00:35:20]  Well, we also today, we started to hear from the first victim in the case, victim number one, Jane, who we mentioned.
[00:35:29]  It feels wrong for us to go into that now.
[00:35:31]  We also have only just started hearing from the cross-examination from the defense.
[00:35:38]  And I have a feeling, look, there was a lot of going back and forth, a lot of objections.
[00:35:43]  Yeah.
[00:35:44]  A lot of gables out.
[00:35:46]  A lot of objections.
[00:35:47]  A lot of, you know, Your Honor.
[00:35:50]  I do protest.
[00:35:51]  Yeah, no, but they were called to the bench.
[00:35:54]  I mean, more than Larry, it only happened really a few times with Larry.
[00:36:00]  But, I mean, there was towards the end of the day, just constantly, you know, interrupted.
[00:36:04]  Yeah, and it's pretty grim stuff.
[00:36:06]  So I think that what we're going to do is introduce her testimony kind of as its own story tomorrow.
[00:36:13]  Yeah.
[00:36:13]  Because we'll know more when we hear from both sides.
[00:36:16]  Exactly.
[00:36:17]  This is someone we've actually talked about this case, I think, on the show before as well, the specifics.
[00:36:22]  But she's requested anonymity for the case.
[00:36:25]  So we are going to be not going to be mentioning her name or anything like that, obviously.
[00:36:30]  But yeah, so we've got the defense on her right now.
[00:36:34]  I'm sure they'll go back to the prosecution.
[00:36:37]  But yeah, we'll have more from you with you to you tomorrow.
[00:36:41]  All that.
[00:36:42]  All right.
[00:36:42]  Well, what time is it?
[00:36:44]  6.40.
[00:36:44]  I have about eight minutes until I have to be asleep in bed in order to get there tomorrow.
[00:36:50]  You better fire up the private jet for your ride home.
[00:36:54]  Yes.
[00:36:55]  I fucking lost my glove.
[00:36:57]  I thought it was so smart.
[00:36:58]  Do you have one glove?
[00:36:59]  I have only one glove, and it's like...
[00:37:01]  Didn't you just buy those?
[00:37:03]  No, I've had them for years, but like you find a pair of gloves at like a thrift store that fit you.
[00:37:08]  You're like, I'm going to have a little bit of a.
[00:37:09]  You know, I always wonder when I see one glove on the street.
[00:37:11]  I'm always like, who's the guy that loses the glove?
[00:37:13]  Here you are.
[00:37:14]  Funny thing is, right?
[00:37:15]  So last night I took him out of the room, brought him here because I was like, it was freezing last night coming here.
[00:37:20]  I'm like, my walk home is going to be fucking so cold.
[00:37:23]  And I'm like, I hope they don't fall out of my pocket.
[00:37:25]  Nah, they won't.
[00:37:26]  Of course, one.
[00:37:27]  Classic move.
[00:37:28]  That's the, you know, the trick of the pocket.
[00:37:30]  I frantically run back to look for it.
[00:37:32]  And guess what I find on the side?
[00:37:33]  I think I see it.
[00:37:34]  No, someone else just lost a glove.
[00:37:36]  Well, maybe that was a little serendipitous moment, like the movie Serendipity.
[00:37:40]  Shout out to my ladies out there who know what I'm talking about.
[00:37:44]  And you were supposed to meet with the mixed glove.
[00:37:47]  I stood by it for 45 minutes just asking everyone that came by if it was theirs.
[00:37:51]  Yeah, that's crazy.
[00:37:52]  They end up having a duel using it by throwing it down.
[00:37:54]  Oh, my God.

=== A Glove's Tale (00:33) ===

[00:37:55]  All right.
[00:37:55]  Well, I'm Liz.
[00:37:57]  My name is Brace.
[00:37:58]  We are, of course, joined by condemned man, Young Chomsky, live from the gallows as the producer.
[00:38:05]  And the podcast is called Truanon.
[00:38:07]  We'll see you next time.
[00:38:08]  Bye-bye.
[00:38:28]  Come in.
[00:38:29]  Come in.