True Anon Truth Feed - Episode 170: Gretchen
Aired: 2021-07-26
Duration: 57:01


=== Richard Jewel's Plane Ride (05:55) ===

[00:00:00]  Brace, I think you have some news for our listeners.
[00:00:03]  What?
[00:00:03]  I'm supposed to.
[00:00:04]  Do I actually have news or am I supposed to come up with something?
[00:00:07]  No, you have news that you may have forgotten, but I haven't forgotten because we have a big announcement.
[00:00:16]  A podcast update.
[00:00:18]  Beep, beep, beep.
[00:00:19]  Breaking news, breaking news.
[00:00:21]  Are you buying time right now while you come up?
[00:00:23]  Do we actually have one?
[00:00:25]  Yes.
[00:00:26]  Okay.
[00:00:26]  Let me get to it.
[00:00:27]  All right.
[00:00:29]  We have a big announcement.
[00:00:33]  There is a major, major update in the True and Non-Jewel Watch.
[00:00:40]  Oh, yes.
[00:00:41]  Yeah.
[00:00:41]  Yeah.
[00:00:42]  Okay.
[00:00:43]  Yes.
[00:00:44]  On a flight, on an eastbound flight from LAX to somewhere in the south, I, at a loss of what to do, after I'd burned through all of the literature I had brought on board, I was forced to watch a movie.
[00:01:03]  Now, usually what I do is I just kind of make up movies with my hands and to try to entertain my neighbors with them.
[00:01:09]  But in this case, I decided to watch the little screen in front of me.
[00:01:14]  And one of the few movies that they had on there was the movie Richard Jewel.
[00:01:19]  Richard Jewel.
[00:01:20]  Richard Jewel.
[00:01:23]  And I watched it.
[00:01:24]  You watched Richard Jewel?
[00:01:25]  I watched the entirety of Richard Jewel.
[00:01:28]  So I don't actually know when we started Jewel Watch.
[00:01:31]  Do you know when we started Jewel Watch?
[00:01:33]  Well, I'll tell you, I started Jewel Watch about 10 days ago.
[00:01:37]  It took me about two hours.
[00:01:38]  No, you know what I mean, Project Jewel Watch.
[00:01:40]  Yeah, you've been bugging me.
[00:01:41]  In fact, let me use some gendered language here.
[00:01:44]  You've been nagging me.
[00:01:46]  Nag, nag, nag, for what feels like.
[00:01:50]  It's a great way to start the show.
[00:01:51]  Well, it's a great way to have a great behavior to have done throughout the entirety of our relationship.
[00:01:57]  For at least 15 years, you've been bugging me to watch the movie Richard Jewel.
[00:02:02]  Since the actually, since the Atlanta, the so-called Atlanta bombing.
[00:02:09]  Yeah, I watched it.
[00:02:10]  And you know what?
[00:02:10]  I'll be real with you.
[00:02:11]  I cried a little bit.
[00:02:14]  Yeah, it was, it was, it was a good movie.
[00:02:20]  Found it difficult in parts to masturbate too.
[00:02:24]  Oh, come on, dude.
[00:02:49]  I'm just kidding.
[00:02:50]  I would straight up never do that on a plane or to a movie.
[00:02:53]  My name is Brace.
[00:02:55]  Hello, everyone.
[00:02:57]  Went right into it.
[00:02:58]  Yeah.
[00:02:59]  Well, actually, let's, before we introduce ourselves, I want to clarify some things about jewel on a plane in the first place.
[00:03:05]  Oh, my God.
[00:03:06]  You can smoke jewel on a plane, and no one's really going to say anything to you.
[00:03:11]  Did they really not say anything?
[00:03:12]  Did you do it?
[00:03:12]  Of course.
[00:03:13]  I do it every time.
[00:03:14]  That's the only reason I originally got it.
[00:03:16]  No, I don't go in the bathroom.
[00:03:18]  You just do it on the plane?
[00:03:20]  Yeah.
[00:03:20]  What are they going to do?
[00:03:21]  Pull it over?
[00:03:22]  No.
[00:03:24]  Do you like put up your collar or like first of all?
[00:03:28]  COVID's over, baby.
[00:03:29]  I'm shirtless on these fucking planes.
[00:03:33]  No, I don't do it in the collar.
[00:03:35]  I just do it kind of like down a little bit, but I'm always hanging my head in shame on airplanes anyways.
[00:03:41]  No, you just do.
[00:03:42]  I used to do it in the bath.
[00:03:43]  That's the entire reason I got a jewel in the first place is so I could smoke on like my once a year plane rides.
[00:03:49]  And now you can just, you can just do it, I guess.
[00:03:52]  No one's really going to say anything to you.
[00:03:53]  I'm surprised they didn't say anything.
[00:03:55]  You're really not supposed to do that.
[00:03:56]  Well, you know, I always, I always tip the flight attendant really big when I get on the plane.
[00:04:02]  That's what you do when they're greeting you and you walk in.
[00:04:05]  You slip a fake hundred down each of their shirts.
[00:04:09]  Yeah, yeah, they're not going to look at it, you know, until they land probably.
[00:04:12]  Oh my God.
[00:04:13]  It's definitely a federal crime to bribe them.
[00:04:15]  And then they kind of just let you do whatever you want.
[00:04:18]  Hello, everyone.
[00:04:19]  I'm Liz.
[00:04:20]  My name is unlicensed but aspirational Sky Marshal Brace Belden.
[00:04:25]  We are joined by Captain, and I mean that in the gay Navy way.
[00:04:31]  Young Chomsky, who is the producer of the show.
[00:04:34]  The podcast is Truanon.
[00:04:36]  Hello, everyone.
[00:04:37]  We're back.
[00:04:37]  We had a little vacation, but we're back.
[00:04:39]  We are back.
[00:04:41]  This is actually, listen, if you're a subscriber, you've already heard us go through the vacation spiel.
[00:04:46]  Yeah, we already talked about it.
[00:04:47]  And if you're not a subscriber, you don't get to hear it.
[00:04:49]  You're kicking out yourself.
[00:04:50]  Yeah.
[00:04:50]  Don't, well, no, but, you know, you don't get to hear about it.
[00:04:54]  Yeah, yeah, I guess, yeah, yeah.
[00:04:56]  Which is basically a fate worse than death.
[00:05:00]  Now, to start off the episode, I want to make clear something there might be some misconceptions about.
[00:05:05]  I know I have said constantly to the contrary something besides what I'm about to say.
[00:05:10]  That is a very tangled sentence.
[00:05:13]  I have no idea what you just said, but I think that that is good advice.
[00:05:16]  Yeah.
[00:05:17]  Say things.
[00:05:18]  Exactly.
[00:05:19]  No one could tell what you're saying.
[00:05:22]  But I have never snitched knowingly or unknowingly.
[00:05:26]  But, you know, how would I know?
[00:05:28]  I've made a lot of jokes in the show about how sometimes I do an amateur wear a wire type thing.
[00:05:36]  When I was younger, I would go buy like a $20 bag of cocaine at the hemlock and then call the police or just scream desperately into my shirt for the guy to get arrested.
[00:05:46]  And those were mostly unsuccessful, but I didn't actually do any of that.
[00:05:50]  I think snitching is bad.
[00:05:53]  I think it's good.

=== FBI Snitching Jokes (04:15) ===

[00:05:55]  Yeah.
[00:05:55]  So, well, that's what I wanted to clear up.
[00:05:57]  So Liz does snitch.
[00:05:58]  Liz has every single time I talk shit on somebody, Liz goes and tells them immediately or is on the phone with them while I'm talking to her and puts me on speaker.
[00:06:08]  No, I don't do any of that.
[00:06:09]  You're joking.
[00:06:10]  There's divergent opinions here.
[00:06:12]  No, well, why are we talking about snitching?
[00:06:14]  Well, we're talking about it because we're talking about a big snitch case, the biggest snitch case of all.
[00:06:19]  No, maybe not the biggest, but a new article came out over at BuzzFeed, which I promise is not in list form.
[00:06:28]  It's an actual article detailing, it was like a kind of a big investigative report detailing the federal Bureau of Investigation, the FBI's involvement in the Michigan kidnapping case, which I don't know if people remember this.
[00:06:46]  This happened, what, last September, late last September, where there was, it was reported in the news, in the mainstream news media, that the FBI had foiled a plot by a couple of militia,
[00:07:04]  erstwhile militiamen and radicalized Trump supporters who were trying to or attempting to had a plan to kidnap the current governor of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer.
[00:07:18]  And also, we should say, was on Gretchen Whitmer, who was on the short list for the Biden admins VP pick.
[00:07:26]  So she's like very visible, very prominent Democratic politician.
[00:07:31]  Yeah.
[00:07:31]  And I remember this pretty vividly at the time because I remember, I mean, rule, another little, another little true and on rule for you listeners out there.
[00:07:39]  Anytime the FBI foils anything, it's fake.
[00:07:45]  Yeah.
[00:07:46]  Like, I'm only, I'm not joking, actually, at all.
[00:07:49]  Like, if you just use that as a rule, that anytime that the FBI comes forward and says that we stop this terror plot or we stop these bad guys from doing this bad thing, if you just assume that they're lying to you, that in fact that they had maybe not only a hand at it, but both hands at it and maybe were, you know, driving the, you know, you get what this metaphor is going, you'll be right like 99% of the time.
[00:08:13]  And so that's just what I assumed in this case.
[00:08:16]  Yeah, it's not so much that they're lying, but that they stopped themselves from continuing what they were planning on doing because they were so involved that they were basically just doing it.
[00:08:25]  Yeah.
[00:08:26]  And I will say, at this point, when this came out, I was real fucking sick about hearing about Gretchen Whitmore.
[00:08:33]  Whitmer, do you remember when like the media during, especially during Trump's like last year, especially during COVID, like every month there would be like a new high-profile Democratic politician that like the failing New York Times or CNN would like gas up as being like Trump's like high-profile enemy, like the no-nonsense Gavin Newsome or like Andrew Cuomo or, you know, name, you know, one of a million other serial rapists out there.
[00:08:58]  A lot of that happened before, like, as well, before Biden picked Kamala.
[00:09:04]  It was like they were just all recycling through, and everyone was throwing their hat in the ring.
[00:09:08]  And so it's like you had to go through all these fucking news media profiles of all these politicians we fucking hate before Amy Klobuchar had to get out because of her involvement in the Derek Chauvin.
[00:09:21]  Yeah, and the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
[00:09:24]  But yeah, no, it's, yeah.
[00:09:26]  And Whitmer especially was a big focal point because of her lockdown Michigan policies.
[00:09:34]  I mean, these have mostly died down around the country, especially as the lockdowns died down in most places quite a while ago at this point.
[00:09:44]  But last April, there started to be unlock Michigan protests a little bit after the initial round of lockdowns.
[00:09:53]  These were pretty well documented, I think, because especially, and they provoked a lot of retrospectives around the beginning of this year too, around the Capitol riot, because they sort of evoked the same images.
[00:10:05]  There was a lot of very angry people at the Michigan Capitol building.

=== Crazy Gun Photos (06:28) ===

[00:10:10]  And there were people with guns and there was people, you know, who just signs or whatever.
[00:10:15]  The police stood by, let them in with some temperature checks.
[00:10:19]  I mean, there was a bunch of these protests, but the most famous one, the police stood by and let them in, I think, the last day of April 2020.
[00:10:27]  And there were all these crazy pictures of like guys in, especially Boogaloo guys, which at that point was a real hot topic, although it would become much hotter later in the year, staying around with guns, basically kind of doing nothing, kind of yelling at cops.
[00:10:40]  Yeah, it was weird.
[00:10:41]  Like, so these guys kind of, when they got into the Michigan State House in the Capitol building, like they basically were like standing in front of offices posing for photos.
[00:10:52]  And they, you know, they're like, there's a pretty famous photo of them, like all in a row standing.
[00:10:58]  Like, you know, they've got like, they're all strapped up and they've got their hands in front of them, like tough guy pose.
[00:11:03]  You know, and they all.
[00:11:04]  Can you act this out for me?
[00:11:06]  I kind of am actually.
[00:11:08]  You are, but can you do it?
[00:11:09]  Like, hold the rifle for me, Liz.
[00:11:11]  There we go.
[00:11:12]  All right, great.
[00:11:13]  Yeah, that's good.
[00:11:14]  No, but so they're, and they're all kind of like standing in a row, like they're being like tough guy, whatever.
[00:11:19]  And all these like photo journalists are around, like boom, boom, boom, snapping photos, snapping photos.
[00:11:23]  And there's all of these like very, um, I mean, very charged and, you know, pretty insane looking photos got passed around.
[00:11:31]  There were big stories.
[00:11:33]  Super menacing looking dudes, huge beards, you know, just like not great press, but they didn't really do anything.
[00:11:40]  Like there was no real violence.
[00:11:42]  And the crowds just kind of like, after posing for a bunch of photos, like just like petered out and left.
[00:11:48]  Well, that's the thing is everybody gets to this like precipice where you're like, fuck, do I have to like shoot the governor?
[00:11:54]  And then it's like, do I really want to shoot the governor?
[00:11:57]  Probably not, right?
[00:11:58]  Like, you know, I got to, most likely you got stuff you got to do the next day.
[00:12:02]  You know, you're probably going to get arrested.
[00:12:03]  You're probably going to get shot.
[00:12:04]  And so no one ever does anything.
[00:12:07]  Well, it's like, yeah, I don't even think that was on the table.
[00:12:10]  Like.
[00:12:11]  There's a piece in the BuzzFeed article, which we'll link to, and they say like the shocking spectacle of the militants occupying the Capitol grabbed the media's attention.
[00:12:20]  It was, the Associated Press reported, an unsettling symbol of rising tensions in a nation grappling with crisis.
[00:12:28]  But it's like even all this stuff just sort of like the spectacles became like a cause for themselves, right?
[00:12:35]  It was like just the spectacle enough was like the, was the threat, even though not a lot was happening.
[00:12:43]  Like even the one of the guys that ends up getting picked up by the FBI, which we'll get into, he was in his little group chat and he like boasted to a group, to the group chat with a screenshot of like his friend commenting on some of the press picking up his photo.
[00:13:02]  And the guy's like, oh, that moment when all your friends start noticing you weren't killing, that you were down to kill tyrants.
[00:13:08]  Like it's just like, it's all very self-regarding.
[00:13:11]  You know what I mean?
[00:13:12]  Yeah, I would definitely say it's highly regarded.
[00:13:14]  It's, it's, that, that's the thing is like, you also aren't down to kill the tyrant.
[00:13:19]  Like you went to the, you went to the Capitol and then you stood there with your gun.
[00:13:23]  Like you, you didn't do it.
[00:13:25]  I mean, you know, I'll say it is, I think we're probably used to it living in America because it kind of happens a lot, like guns and protests, those sort of things.
[00:13:34]  But in most other countries that are comparable to America, like Israel and the West Bank and occupied Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, like, you know, these things are like pretty, you know, that's, that's, that's not very, it's mostly people like throwing rocks and stuff like that.
[00:13:50]  And so, you know, it's, it's wild that people are bringing guns into a state house.
[00:13:54]  But like, also, I think we should know by now, people aren't doing shit, you know?
[00:13:58]  It's, it's, it's, it is mostly like you're saying, it's, it's a big spectacle thing.
[00:14:04]  And, and they're right.
[00:14:04]  Like it does make for arresting images.
[00:14:07]  I think we were very much reminded of that all throughout last year throughout the, uh, you know, this, this early, these lockdown protests and then through the BLM stuff.
[00:14:15]  And then towards the end when the election disaster kind of unfolded and, you know, images with people, you know, sort of with a slung AR across their chest are arresting and they make for, definitely make for good copy.
[00:14:32]  But like this guy is saying, that's mostly what it is.
[00:14:35]  And I think a lot of the participants at their core also know this.
[00:14:39]  Like they're not going actually to shoot anybody.
[00:14:41]  They're going there to make a statement, essentially, with a gun.
[00:14:46]  It's like how those like pickup artists wear like the really big hats.
[00:14:49]  Peacocking.
[00:14:50]  Yeah, they're peacocking.
[00:14:52]  Well, while nothing was accomplished that day, they did end up getting arrested because, according to the authorities, they were planning something for later.
[00:15:16]  And that's what has kind of become this huge story: the foiled plot of the kidnapping of Governor Gretchen Whitmer.
[00:15:24]  Yeah, and the plot is actually, it's pretty predictable, right?
[00:15:28]  I mean, there were a lot of people with not a lot to do in April of 2020, right?
[00:15:33]  I mean, a lot of people out of work.
[00:15:35]  Mostly everything was closed.
[00:15:38]  And Michigan has a pretty big militia movement that already exists.
[00:15:42]  In fact, I think it's the second biggest in the country after Texas.
[00:15:45]  And so, you know, there's a lot of guys who are essentially like, I mean, if you look at pictures of a lot of these guys, they're not about to, you know, these are hobbyists.
[00:15:55]  It's like people, it's like a LARP essentially for a lot of these people.
[00:15:58]  I mean, they're, you know, they're serious real deal guys who are, you know, who very, very, very, very occasionally, you know, try strive to reach the other level.
[00:16:08]  But like with a lot of these guys, I mean, it basically is like they're, they're getting together for training and, you know, bitching in group chats.
[00:16:15]  And the way that it seems like this was unfolding is that there was this group of people who sort of revolved around this Facebook page that which, yes, the Facebook pays a large part in this, as do group chats.
[00:16:29]  The Wolverine Watchmen.
[00:16:31]  The Wolverine Watchmen.
[00:16:33]  Assuming they got the Wolverine part from Red Dawn and the Watchmen part from the comic?

=== Larping Militiamen (05:43) ===

[00:16:39]  No, it's probably like, no, it's not, it's probably not from the comic.
[00:16:44]  I mean, that's, I feel like that's a little too like corny almost.
[00:16:47]  The bust feeder is cornier than watching the watchman, which I was like, okay, come on.
[00:16:52]  All right.
[00:16:52]  Yeah.
[00:16:52]  Okay.
[00:16:52]  Give me a fucking.
[00:16:53]  But who watches the oh no?
[00:16:55]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:16:56]  There you go.
[00:16:57]  So, you know, and these guys were, you know, I don't want to be like this or whatever.
[00:17:02]  We were not exactly, I'm not talking about the most successful guys in the world, right?
[00:17:07]  And so they're basically getting together, having fun with their friends and pretending like that they're some threat to the government.
[00:17:14]  I'm sure many listeners here are also picturing people that they might know who like maybe talk a big game and act like big, tough revolutionaries or something or like, you know, crazy anti-government people, but like really would never do shit.
[00:17:28]  And so that sort of seems to be mostly what was going on here.
[00:17:34]  Yeah, I want to talk about these three guys that are the kind of founding members of the Wolverine Watchmen.
[00:17:42]  Pete Musico, aka grandpa, aka Crazy Pete.
[00:17:46]  You always need a crazy Pete.
[00:17:49]  Who's 42 years old?
[00:17:50]  Now, a couple questions.
[00:17:52]  One, is he a 42-year-old grandpa?
[00:17:55]  Yes.
[00:17:56]  That's young.
[00:17:58]  Well, let's see.
[00:17:59]  No, you can be a 42-year-old grandpa.
[00:18:01]  I mean, I got.
[00:18:02]  No, but Pete, what's going on?
[00:18:04]  Some of my kids have kids.
[00:18:05]  Well, he was with, oh, second, my second point was.
[00:18:11]  He goes by Crazy Pete.
[00:18:13]  And spoiler alert, his defense attorney uses that as a defense for saying people called him Crazy Pete.
[00:18:19]  No one believed Crazy Pete.
[00:18:20]  So don't take anything he says seriously because he's crazy.
[00:18:23]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:18:24]  Great lawyer.
[00:18:25]  Yeah, you always wanted, if you ever, listen, this is another little true and odd hint for our listeners out there.
[00:18:30]  If you're ever going to do a crime or anything even mildly illegal, you always got to start calling yourself like moron Frank or something or like or like illiterate Lanny or, you know, his special needs requires like one of those service dogs, James.
[00:18:51]  And then it's basically a scot-free to friends.
[00:18:54]  Well, Crazy Pete also brought along his son-in-law, Joe, aka Boogaloo Bunyan.
[00:19:01]  Yes.
[00:19:01]  Son-in-law.
[00:19:02]  So I guess he, you know, technically, he lived with Crazy Pete.
[00:19:07]  Maybe he's got the kid.
[00:19:08]  And that makes Crazy Pete the grandpa?
[00:19:10]  Anyway.
[00:19:11]  That would be how that worked.
[00:19:12]  And then there, well, I'm just mapping it out for everyone.
[00:19:15]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:19:16]  And then there's Paul Beller, aka doc.
[00:19:20]  Which, why is there always a doc in a gang?
[00:19:24]  What's up with that?
[00:19:25]  There's always a doc.
[00:19:26]  Like in cartoons.
[00:19:28]  When I was younger, we had like a bunch of Sean's that we hung out with.
[00:19:34]  And we realized that we had too many Sean's, like five or six Sean's, which was like, we couldn't.
[00:19:40]  I mean, we had a crazy Sean.
[00:19:44]  We had a fuck another.
[00:19:47]  No, that was Zach, Fat Zach.
[00:19:49]  But, you know, we had a lot of noun and then Sean's.
[00:19:52]  Well, Doc was only 21.
[00:19:55]  He's the youngest guy.
[00:19:57]  These are the three guys that they credit as being the founding members.
[00:20:01]  But spoiler alert, at some point the feds get involved.
[00:20:07]  Yeah, it looks like the feds got involved through their usual route, which is a pussy.
[00:20:12]  A member of a, well, actually, I think this guy actually himself wasn't a militiaman at first.
[00:20:17]  A guy who was browsing Facebook, who came upon the Wolverine Watchman Facebook group account.
[00:20:23]  Like looking for friends.
[00:20:25]  Looking for friends.
[00:20:25]  And in fact, he makes in all the wrong places.
[00:20:29]  Fed to him by the algorithm, too, which is, you know, that's brother.
[00:20:33]  If you're becoming an informant because of an algorithm, you are so far outside the realm of what's cool or what's not that I can't.
[00:20:39]  Dude, everyone's becoming a fed because of the algorithm.
[00:20:43]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:20:45]  I don't, but I'm going to pretend like I, yeah, I know what you're saying, sister.
[00:20:51]  But he gets onto this page and these guys immediately let him into the group chat, which Liz, that does not seem like a good idea to do.
[00:21:01]  So this guy, Dan, gets involved and he gets, you know, he's hits up their Facebook page and they include him in the encrypted chap at they're using, which spoiler alert, not encrypted.
[00:21:13]  They are plenty of these chats are appearing in court.
[00:21:17]  So something else we want to impress on you.
[00:21:19]  There is no such thing as a chat that the government cannot read or that cannot be used against you in court.
[00:21:24]  That is fake.
[00:21:25]  100% fake.
[00:21:28]  And he gets freaked out because one of the guys is talking, obviously bullshitting, like one of those lies that you hear and you're immediately like, this is fucking fake.
[00:21:38]  Talking about how he fucking this cop pulled him over and then he went to the cop's house and he threw a Molotov through the window and was standing outside with an AR ready to shoot the cop when he came out, but decided at the last minute not to do it.
[00:21:49]  Like this is not real.
[00:21:51]  If anyone tells you anything like that, they are lying to you because they want to seem tough and cool.
[00:21:55]  And this story is sick with that kind of stuff.
[00:21:58]  There's talk about people showing off fake C4, talking about like, you know, these like special tactics things they have.
[00:22:04]  It's all fucking fake.
[00:22:05]  These guys are just gassing each other up, bullshitting each other, trying to seem like big tough macho guys.
[00:22:10]  But he goes to the goddamn FBI.
[00:22:14]  Yeah, he goes to the FBI because he's like, dude, these guys want to kill cops.
[00:22:17]  I got to tell the cops.
[00:22:18]  And the cops were like, hey, you know who you should talk to?
[00:22:21]  The feds.

=== Lauren's Odd Spelling (03:10) ===

[00:22:22]  Yeah.
[00:22:23]  Which, by the way, if I was a cop, I'd take that in my own hands, but that's why they kicked me off the force.
[00:22:29]  Yeah, and the feds are immediately very interested in this.
[00:22:33]  They appear to insert a few other informants as time goes on.
[00:22:39]  They really actually steer the group through Dan, whose nickname with the feds is Thor.
[00:22:48]  Which my theory on that, by the way, is that the feds gave him that nickname to make him feel like real special and real important.
[00:22:54]  Oh, 100%.
[00:22:55]  And to keep gassing him up.
[00:22:56]  Everyone's just gassing each other up everywhere.
[00:22:59]  I know.
[00:22:59]  Well, you know, it's really does, you know, the world make the world go round.
[00:23:05]  It's just also like, it kind of hurts my feelings because like when I snitched and stuff, I was Gretchen.
[00:23:10]  And like, they just called me Gretchen all the time.
[00:23:13]  And now I'm like, cool, I could have had a name like Thor, but maybe just.
[00:23:17]  You know what?
[00:23:18]  I got to break this for a second because, dear listeners, Brace always runs to this name, Gretchen.
[00:23:26]  Yes, because I tricked my friends Maher and Craig when I was 16 into thinking my real name wasn't Brace.
[00:23:32]  It was Gretchen.
[00:23:33]  No, but I just think it's so funny because you know there's a name that is like impressed in your little brain.
[00:23:39]  And I really want to know why because it's such an odd name.
[00:23:43]  Like, it's not like, it's like a real specific name.
[00:23:46]  And I'm like, did you meet a Gretchen at a very young age that gave you an impression?
[00:23:50]  Like, what's the story here?
[00:23:52]  Who's friends with a girl named Gretchen in middle school?
[00:23:55]  But no, no, it's because you know, you remember when you first met a guy named Lauren?
[00:24:01]  No.
[00:24:02]  Really?
[00:24:02]  You don't know any guys named Lauren?
[00:24:04]  No.
[00:24:05]  I've known like three guys named Lauren.
[00:24:06]  It's usually with an L-O-R-E-N.
[00:24:09]  The first time I met a guy named Lauren, my shit was fucking rocked.
[00:24:13]  Like, I could not believe that that was happening.
[00:24:16]  Yeah.
[00:24:16]  Yeah.
[00:24:17]  I was like, Jesus Christ, like they named guys Lauren.
[00:24:20]  And so I always thought it'd be funny, but then be like, oh, yeah, it's like, but it's like the guy spelling.
[00:24:24]  And I always thought it'd be funny to have a guy be like, yeah, I'm Gretchen, but like it's the guy's spelling of it.
[00:24:31]  Like with an O Gretchon?
[00:24:34]  No, it's like still pronounced Gretchen.
[00:24:37]  Like, but you're like, yeah, like, it's like, yeah, it's Gretchen.
[00:24:39]  That's the male spelling.
[00:24:40]  It's just like the male spelling of Gretchen.
[00:24:43]  And so that's been my, pretty much my go-to ever since.
[00:24:46]  And like, you know, I do drag shows under that name and all that stuff.
[00:24:48]  But like, it's, yeah, it's for some reason, I can never think of another woman's name for myself.
[00:24:55]  It's so funny to me.
[00:24:56]  It's so funny.
[00:24:58]  Sorry.
[00:24:58]  It's like the third or fourth time that you've referenced Gretchen and I had to say something.
[00:25:02]  But I did do a really elaborate, like months-long trick on my friends, Craig and Maher, to make them think that that was my real name.
[00:25:11]  Oh, the trickster.
[00:25:13]  Yeah.
[00:25:13]  And then they like they, they spread a rumor behind my own back until they finally, like, I was like needling them and they were like, oh, yeah, Gretchen.
[00:25:21]  And I was like, I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about.
[00:25:23]  I showed them my idea.
[00:25:24]  It's Brace and they were humiliated.
[00:25:28]  So anyways.
[00:25:30]  Long gone.
[00:25:31]  Yes.
[00:25:32]  It was like a three-month operation.

=== Adam's Hawaiian Humiliation (02:36) ===

[00:25:33]  So anyways, Thor.
[00:25:34]  Much like this, the fed operation here.
[00:25:36]  I mean, this thing, this thing was intense, right?
[00:25:38]  I mean, the feds are basically running this organization through Thor.
[00:25:41]  Thor, I'm just going to keep calling him Thor.
[00:25:43]  Thor is the second in command of the Wolverine Rochman.
[00:25:46]  And they have Thor bring on this Boogaloo boy named Adam Fox.
[00:25:52]  Yeah, not to be confused with Boogaloo Bunyan.
[00:25:54]  No, no.
[00:25:55]  And that's, that's something That's funny when I was looking over this is remember the boogaloo boys?
[00:26:01]  Not really.
[00:26:02]  No, I mean, I do.
[00:26:03]  Everyone was like, oh, you can't wear a Hawaiian shirt because that means that you support Trump.
[00:26:07]  And I was like, yeah, I'm wearing a Hawaiian shirt because that shit's cool.
[00:26:10]  But Boogaloo, Boogaloo was, I mean, I'm sure many listeners remember it, but it was a basically what I think it was like came out of 4chan or something, but like some online to real life phenomenon of people who were screen damaged,
[00:26:26]  meme-obsessed losers who thought that they could kind of like goof their way into a second civil war, but who actually in practice stood there holding guns at big protests and like then sometimes like for some shirts wearing Hawaiian shirts.
[00:26:43]  Yeah.
[00:26:44]  Bold prints.
[00:26:45]  Yeah.
[00:26:46]  And it was like, it was this sort of like all over vague anti-government message, but basically tailored for, you know, like lonely 25-year-old guys.
[00:26:58]  There were a couple high-profile Boogaloo incidents, including when two guys who met on Facebook killed a, I believe, one cop in Oakland at a like a BLM protest.
[00:27:10]  And then one of them had a pretty actually successful shootout in the hills of Santa Cruz and where I think he shot like three cops.
[00:27:19]  And then two other guys who tried to join Hamas, but were in fact talking to a federal informant, excuse me, a federal agent.
[00:27:28]  So I'm sure.
[00:27:30]  I don't know why that's so funny.
[00:27:31]  It's so fucking funny to me.
[00:27:33]  It's like, dude, we found Hamas's Facebook page and I messaged them.
[00:27:38]  How did you think this was going to work, man?
[00:27:39]  Like, just like, what part of you thought this was going to work?
[00:27:44]  Anyway, so Adam Fox was like a quintessential Boogaloo boy, like big shirt, Hawaii or big Hawaiian shirt, big beard, stupid like meme patches all over his plate carrier and like talked a big game.
[00:27:58]  And once he gets on board, the other guys in the militia, I mean, they're mostly kind of like sad, lonely, older men.
[00:28:04]  They don't like Adam.
[00:28:05]  They're like, this guy is sketchy.
[00:28:07]  He freaks me out.
[00:28:09]  He's a rabble rouser.

=== Rabble Rouser's Influence (15:52) ===

[00:28:10]  He's always talking.
[00:28:11]  I mean, and again, I'm sure many of our listeners are familiar with these sort of like, yo, we're going to fucking kill some fucking cops, blah, blah.
[00:28:18]  Like, you know, it's real like stuff that chest shit.
[00:28:21]  Exactly.
[00:28:22]  Roosters.
[00:28:23]  Roosters.
[00:28:24]  Peacocking.
[00:28:25]  Yeah, peacocking.
[00:28:27]  And the FBI actually is like, we actually need to get this guy way more involved over the other Wolverines' wishes.
[00:28:35]  And that's successful.
[00:28:36]  And so through Dan and through their other, I think at least two confidential informants, they really gas up the craziest members of this group until it congeals around a plan to kidnap Gretchen Witch.
[00:28:50]  Gretchen Whitmer.
[00:28:52]  Gretchen Whitmer?
[00:28:53]  Holy shit.
[00:28:56]  What is wrong with me?
[00:28:57]  I can't believe we did that whole bit about Gretchen, and I didn't even put together that we were doing an episode of Sigma.
[00:29:04]  But no, I have to explain because I swear to God, Brace says Gretchen all the time.
[00:29:09]  She's gaslighting you.
[00:29:09]  She's fucking gaslighting you never.
[00:29:11]  No, it's strange right now.
[00:29:12]  She's fucking gaslighting you.
[00:29:15]  I can't believe I didn't even put together that.
[00:29:17]  That this is how much Brace references Gretchen.
[00:29:19]  Is I didn't even put together that the subject of the episode today is Gretchen Whitmer.
[00:29:24]  No, this is gaslighting 101, which I've taught at several times.
[00:29:28]  Yeah, you credit it.
[00:29:28]  You definitely teach that because you have a PhD in gaslighting.
[00:29:32]  That's right.
[00:29:55]  So this guy, I mean, again, you don't need to regurgitate the entire article for you.
[00:30:00]  But I mean, it is kind of a masterclass in how the FBI does this kind of stuff, though.
[00:30:06]  And it's long, but it's also very typical of the FBI's usual moves, right?
[00:30:13]  They encourage the absolute most extreme maximalist behavior in this case, scouting out the governor's vacation house and then forming a plan involving IEDs and blowing up a bridge and maybe a boat and with the end goal of either shooting the governor, tasing the governor, and leaving her on a boat, which, by the way, is an insanely funny plan, or kidnapping her and putting her on trial, which would have been also really funny because they wouldn't have happened.
[00:30:41]  And they would have live streamed it, which would have been, yeah, also wouldn't none of these things would have happened.
[00:30:45]  None of these things happened.
[00:30:46]  They could have done the boat thing.
[00:30:47]  I mean, they couldn't have done it, but there's no court that they could have tried her in, which is why it's very funny.
[00:30:54]  Actually, that's not true.
[00:30:55]  There are private courts we can try anything.
[00:30:56]  That's that's I just made that up, but there should be.
[00:30:59]  Um, yeah.
[00:31:00]  And so, you know, the rest of this goes essentially like you'd think it was.
[00:31:03]  You know, the fucking Thor is like, I know a bomb expert.
[00:31:09]  And that is a big red flag for anybody who knows anything about how the FBI entraps people.
[00:31:16]  Whenever a guy in your group is like, oh, I know an explosive guy, that explosives guy is an FBI agent.
[00:31:23]  And that is exactly what he was here.
[00:31:26]  Yeah, it's not just even, I mean, you know, listeners or people familiar with the case might think, okay, well, sure, the FBI like egged him on, but that's how they do it.
[00:31:34]  That's how you kind of like tease it out there.
[00:31:35]  And then these guys do it.
[00:31:37]  And then that's how you catch them.
[00:31:38]  No, it's like the explosive expert was an informant.
[00:31:43]  The guy who was in charge of transportation was an undercover FBI informant.
[00:31:47]  The head of security, quote-unquote security for the Wolverines, was an FBI informant.
[00:31:53]  The whole thing was there are like more informants involved than people.
[00:31:59]  Well, that's, I mean, yeah, I mean, there are, there are a shit ton of informants involved.
[00:32:04]  And the thing is, since all these guys got arrested, a lot of the people sort of in this network, because you know, there was like the actual Wolverine Watchman, there was a sort of a bunch of other loosely or sometimes tightly affiliated people who weren't involved in the plot.
[00:32:16]  A lot of those guys have since been picked up too, usually on gun charges unrelated to this actual plot.
[00:32:24]  Yeah, they find other things, but they tie it together with flimsy connections through like the Facebook or the social posts or the group chats or whatever.
[00:32:32]  I mean, some of these guys had only maybe been to one meeting or like ridden in a car with a guy one time, but what they do is they arrest you and then they flip you, right?
[00:32:40]  Yeah, and that's like the total goal.
[00:32:42]  And that's always been the goal.
[00:32:43]  This is something that we've talked about extensively with on our episodes about the UK spy cops case, which if you guys haven't listened, you got to listen to those.
[00:32:54]  Those are great.
[00:32:56]  But also in the past, you know, remember we did that episode about the case of that far-right group, the base.
[00:33:04]  Yes.
[00:33:05]  And how it came out that the leader of the base was possibly an inf was possibly an informant or an agent or like the whole time.
[00:33:15]  You know what I mean?
[00:33:16]  There's also, of course, all the stuff that came out about all the members of the Proud Boys who were federal informants.
[00:33:25]  You couldn't stop yourself.
[00:33:26]  I mean, that is.
[00:33:27]  You can't stop it.
[00:33:28]  I think the Enrique Tario Joe Big shit is like so indicative of how this works.
[00:33:33]  Is that like the leadership of so many of these right-wing organizations?
[00:33:37]  I mean, even going all the way back to like Elohim City and Timothy McVay stuff is like the leader there was a fucking federal informant.
[00:33:45]  Although he was like, I didn't go to them.
[00:33:47]  They came to me.
[00:33:48]  So that makes it a different relationship.
[00:33:49]  I mean, the militia movement in particular has really been sick with informants.
[00:33:54]  You know, people, people always sort of bandy about this probably apocryphal statistic about how at one point you're like one in five members of the CPUSA or like more than that of the Communist Party of USA was a federal informant or a reporter or excuse me, agent or anything, something like that.
[00:34:14]  I will say he's a federal reporter.
[00:34:16]  Yeah, he works for APA.
[00:34:18]  Same thing.
[00:34:19]  Distinction without a difference.
[00:34:21]  But with the militia movement, I mean, that like really is true.
[00:34:25]  You cannot fucking throw a stone in the militia movement without finding somebody who's either working for the feds or who works like full-time, part-time, or as an actual agent.
[00:34:34]  I mean, it is, it is totally rife with it, because which, you know, makes sense.
[00:34:38]  I mean, a lot of these guys are heavily armed, and it's probably a lot of fun to be an informant or an undercover agent in these because you get to go play in the woods with guns with these guys.
[00:34:48]  Well, there was also the FBI did so much of this during the Obama years.
[00:34:52]  Remember all of those stories about all the kind of like Muslim extremism stings that they were doing?
[00:34:58]  Yeah.
[00:34:59]  There was like, there's this one I was reading about, and I remember that this happened, but I, you know, it's been so long since I even looked at any of this stuff.
[00:35:07]  This was back in like 2012.
[00:35:10]  And the Guardian had a big expose on one of the confidential informants that the FBI was using.
[00:35:17]  And it's the same thing what they would do.
[00:35:19]  It's like they would, they would, they got this guy.
[00:35:23]  He was like outside a gym talking to some guys who happened to be ex-cops.
[00:35:28]  And they were all impressed with him because he had just gotten out of prison and he was talking about some of the like drug gangs and the guys that he knew in like prison in Chino.
[00:35:38]  Yeah.
[00:35:38]  And those off-duty cops were like, hey, maybe we can like introduce him to the feds, you know, blah, blah, blah.
[00:35:43]  Who knows what kind of kickbacks are involved there?
[00:35:45]  I'm assuming, I would not be surprised to know that there were plenty of kickbacks.
[00:35:49]  You get referral bonuses.
[00:35:51]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:35:52]  Fucking MLM style marketing is what I mean.
[00:35:56]  They're not.
[00:35:57]  Yeah.
[00:35:57]  We do that in Aoism too.
[00:36:00]  But that's what happened.
[00:36:02]  They introduced him to the feds and the feds were like, oh my God, we could totally use you.
[00:36:05]  And they get this dude to like fucking grow a huge beard and start befriending Muslims.
[00:36:10]  And like to the point where he was like going into these mosques and, you know, trying to kind of like instigate all this stuff and get, you know, kind of lure, you know, like try to find these quote unquote Islamic extremist sympathizers to the point that those dudes at the mosque like called the FBI on him because they were like, this guy's talking crazy.
[00:36:30]  Like it just like didn't work out well.
[00:36:32]  But the stuff that he says in this interview with the Guardian is like totally crazy.
[00:36:36]  I mean, he's like, you know, the FBI, and this echoes what you were saying.
[00:36:40]  There's like, you know, they had two basic aims.
[00:36:42]  Firstly, they aim to uncover potential militants.
[00:36:45]  Secondly, they could also use any information, like, you know, if someone's having an affair or if someone was being gay, if someone was gay or whatever, like to turn.
[00:36:56]  Well, that's actually what it says in the article, but it sounds so weird that I had to change it.
[00:36:59]  Yeah, Or if someone was gay, to turn targeted people into becoming FBI informants themselves.
[00:37:09]  And so like, what's so fascinating to me about this whole thing is that it's such a good example of just like this bureaucracy and the system reproducing itself, right?
[00:37:17]  Because like its only goal is actually then just to turn more people informants and suck up more money for this program and more resources and just like grow and grow and grow.
[00:37:29]  And like that, that's something that Tom really echoes in our episodes about the spy cops.
[00:37:34]  Like it wasn't even about anything other than just continually to grow and kind of like justify its own existence through those measures.
[00:37:45]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:37:46]  I mean, the Bush and Obama, and of course like Trump years too.
[00:37:51]  I mean, this has never actually stopped against Muslims.
[00:37:54]  No, it's not growth.
[00:37:56]  I mean, the actual number of informants that the FBI uses too.
[00:38:00]  I was reading this, I think, as a Mother Jones article.
[00:38:02]  At one point, I think in like 2012, they had 15,000 spies.
[00:38:06]  The FBI alone had 15,000 spies in various organizations across the country.
[00:38:11]  Back in 1975, about 1,500.
[00:38:15]  And so it's grown so much since then.
[00:38:18]  And all of these like giant plots too of the 2000s.
[00:38:21]  I mean, remember all these fucking things?
[00:38:22]  The shoe bomber.
[00:38:24]  Every other week there was like a foiled plot.
[00:38:27]  You know, the big ones like Sears Tower plot, Washington Metro bombing plot, New York subway plot, Portland Christmas bombing.
[00:38:34]  That was a big one.
[00:38:35]  All of them were led by FBI informants.
[00:38:37]  Yeah.
[00:38:37]  Right?
[00:38:38]  Like this is not, we're not being like hyperbolic or like doing like some fucking like, you know, like left-wing, like mean thing.
[00:38:45]  Oh, the FBI sets everyone.
[00:38:47]  That is actually what they do.
[00:38:48]  Like this isn't a joke.
[00:38:50]  What they do is they find people who might have some sentiment, right, against the government or some views that are anti-government views or even some desire, but absolutely no way to carry that out.
[00:39:04]  No means, no method, and no real like motivation.
[00:39:08]  I mean, motivation maybe in some sort of like, you know, ephemeral sense, but no like actual immediate motivation to do something like this.
[00:39:16]  And then they set them up.
[00:39:17]  I mean, you know, famously, there was that guy that they had to drive to Walmart and buy him a knife, you know, the homeless guy, and then arrested him as I think being a member of ISIS.
[00:39:26]  I mean, my view on a lot of this stuff, though, is like, yeah, the FBI literally is behind most terror plots and most foiled terror plots.
[00:39:38]  And I have a feeling that they're behind a lot of the ones that kind of go through as well.
[00:39:42]  I mean, if 9-11 is any indication there, too.
[00:39:46]  You know, it makes sense.
[00:39:47]  And people might ask, like, well, why would they do this?
[00:39:50]  Right.
[00:39:50]  I mean, like, like Liz is saying, it make, you know, to justify themselves and to, you know, to have these victories in the public eye and stuff like that.
[00:39:56]  But it also creates this like big climate of fear.
[00:39:59]  I mean, with the Whitmer stuff, I mean, Christ, think of how many fucking psyops there were in 2020, but especially as a way of making, I think, 2020 the most mentally insane year of most people's lives, right?
[00:40:14]  I mean, God knows how many people I knew that basically lost their grip on reality last year.
[00:40:19]  And a lot of people who never really regained it either.
[00:40:23]  You know, this is, you know, not in the same way as it was in Italy during the years of Lead, but this is in a very real sense, like a strategy of tension, right?
[00:40:31]  Like it makes people stressed out.
[00:40:33]  It makes people fearful.
[00:40:34]  It makes people suspect everybody.
[00:40:36]  It makes people into snitches because they think that there's like an impending fascist takeover or something to that effect.
[00:40:43]  Media is totally complicit in this strategy as well.
[00:40:46]  And it's bonkers, right?
[00:40:48]  Like the FBI has caused way more terror on the American public since its inception or even, you know, give it, give any five-year stretch than any sort of terror group has done.
[00:41:21]  Another thing that's crazy is that one thing that this former informant said in this Guardian interview is he's like, I was untouchable.
[00:41:33]  I am a felon.
[00:41:34]  I'm on probation and the police can't arrest me.
[00:41:36]  How empowering is that?
[00:41:38]  It's very empowering.
[00:41:39]  You begin to have a certain arrogance about it.
[00:41:41]  It's almost taunting.
[00:41:42]  They told me you are untouchable.
[00:41:44]  And it's so interesting to me.
[00:41:46]  Like you take that kind of attitude.
[00:41:48]  And when someone feels like they're outside the system, right?
[00:41:51]  This is a sentiment that we kind of talked about with Seth when we were talking about, you know, JSOC and kind of like these elite kind of military squads that exist outside of the sort of, you know, regular structure of DOD and all the kind of hierarchies there.
[00:42:11]  But that like when you take something like that, that's so kind of like unique and volatile because it's outside of any kind of boundaries, right?
[00:42:20]  And it's aware, again, it self-regards itself.
[00:42:22]  It knows that.
[00:42:23]  And you would just inject it into an existing group or like, you know, organization or interaction or relationship, right?
[00:42:34]  It completely changes the chemistry of that to the point that you have absolutely, there's no way to distinguish what that group was or would ever have been without this thing coming in.
[00:42:46]  You know, it's like when we talk about the, you know, the effects that all of these people photographing the riots have on the actual riots themselves, right?
[00:42:56]  These outside agitators.
[00:42:57]  And suddenly, like, it's very unclear to tell what's what and what's like completely and totally manipulated, you know, and I don't think that it's like, I mean, I don't think that there is some like grand plot here.
[00:43:10]  I think a lot of this stuff, like I'm saying, like reproduces itself.
[00:43:13]  You know, it's like the blob just kind of keeps growing and growing as its need to constantly flip more informants to create more foiled plots to then, you know, get more promotions and get more money and get more, you know, I was reading about today, you know, with the January 6th capital riot case, you know, that the feds, the, the case is so fucking big and has so much Material in it in terms of like social media posts.
[00:43:41]  Like, there's so much evidence that they had to hire an outside firm to kind of collate all of it and create a database so that defenses can have access to the like just like you know, 200, 400,000 social media images that they've all collated, right?
[00:43:59]  They have to, it's a $6 million contract that they've given to Deloitte.

=== Groups at the Top (11:15) ===

[00:44:03]  Now, there's an incentive there, right?
[00:44:04]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:44:05]  Like, these big cases, then more and more, these things then will continue to grow and grow because these incentives are kind of like finding their own way here.
[00:44:15]  You know what I mean?
[00:44:17]  I think so too.
[00:44:17]  And I think in the case of January 6th, also, I mean, we saw this happen a lot in recent history is that cops will sometimes let these things go on because now they got you basically on paper.
[00:44:28]  Now they can pick you up and turn you as an informant too.
[00:44:31]  I mean, that's, that's really what I suspect about a lot of those like really pointless like Portland, like, you know, like anarchist riots and shit like that.
[00:44:39]  It's like, you know, how those went on for a really long time?
[00:44:42]  Like, well, yeah, because now they got all you like on video.
[00:44:46]  I'm sure that they picked some people up.
[00:44:47]  I'm sure that they turned some people.
[00:44:48]  I'm sure that there were people that they had in place there already.
[00:44:52]  You know, these things can actually be big boons for the government.
[00:44:56]  Like January 6th, I mean, far from being like a blow to the feds, was actually like a fucking feast for them.
[00:45:04]  And it will continue to be a feast for them.
[00:45:06]  Well, people always talked of, always talked about the battle in Seattle for that very reason.
[00:45:10]  Like, I remember during the Iraq war protests, people being like, whatever you do, stay away from anti-FUD and the Black Bloc because they're all feds.
[00:45:17]  And that was like fucking in 2003.
[00:45:21]  Like, I knew that.
[00:45:22]  I was a kid and I knew that.
[00:45:23]  And now you see all these kids going and joining Anti-FUD.
[00:45:25]  And it's like, dude, you don't, what are you doing, man?
[00:45:28]  Well, I think a lot of people don't think that this stuff can really happen to them.
[00:45:31]  I mean, obviously the most publicized cases have been on the right recently, right?
[00:45:35]  I mean, specifically that we're aware of, yeah, that's awesome.
[00:45:38]  Exactly.
[00:45:39]  That we're aware of.
[00:45:40]  But, you know, this used to be like a pretty well-known thing among people on the left, especially among like animal rights and environmental rights groups like ELF, ALF, that kind of stuff.
[00:45:50]  I mean, ELF, I think, was like the number one of the, I believe it was the number one target of the FBI, even after 9-11 for about a year.
[00:46:00]  I mean, it was, you know, these things.
[00:46:02]  And believe me, if you want to get into the environmental movement, you know, with fucking feds and snitches in there, there's a lot you can get into because boy is there.
[00:46:12]  I mean, Brandon Darby, a writer for Breitbart, you know, got his start literally in trapping.
[00:46:17]  I mean, and this man is a writer for Breitbart, got his start by tricking a kid into basically carrying and like forcing this like young kid into carrying a box of Molotov cocktails to, I think, the DNC protests and fucking snitched on them.
[00:46:33]  You know, like this is this is not an uncommon thing.
[00:46:36]  And so I do, I do want people to be very careful.
[00:46:39]  If anyone is encouraging you to do violence, if anyone's like trying to make a real plan with you to do violence or something like this, really, I mean, take into consideration what you're dealing with, but like with the history of this stuff, because there is a good chance that that person is either fucking insane or going to snitch on you or setting you up for something.
[00:47:01]  Another thing, too, though, is that like cops will get you on minor charges and they will seek to turn you too.
[00:47:07]  I mean, I think that that's that's like a pretty common tactic that we've seen here.
[00:47:13]  So like, I think doing stuff that's needlessly illegal is generally pretty stupid too, especially in a political context, because you can get picked up for that shit.
[00:47:21]  I mean, a lot of these guys got picked up on minor gun charges.
[00:47:24]  And I'm sure they were told, we're going to throw the book at you unless you comply with us.
[00:47:28]  Well, that's like, so, okay, you know, we mentioned January 6th and, you know, the Democrats are doing, like, Pelosi has her big, like, I don't know, big show trial that they're going to do or whatever.
[00:47:39]  I don't, I mean, who knows?
[00:47:40]  Are you talking about the commission?
[00:47:42]  Yeah, the commission.
[00:47:43]  I'm so excited for that.
[00:47:45]  I read that she like kicked off the Republicans or whatever, which I think is very funny.
[00:47:48]  Who knows?
[00:47:49]  I mean, I was looking at some of the Senate.
[00:47:51]  It's been a minute since I looked into a lot of this stuff.
[00:47:53]  So I apologize, but I was looking into reading back on some of the like Senate hearing stuff that I think happened in March.
[00:48:00]  Like the questions that were coming out of the Democrats, the FBI, I don't feel great about the way that those questions went.
[00:48:08]  I'll just say that.
[00:48:09]  I mean, I don't think, I don't believe that they're very interested in getting to the bottom of actually what happened here, because I think that one of the big lessons or, you know, what we should be asking as we're reading through kind of the extent that we're aware of of the FBI's involvement in this kidnapping entrapment case with Governor Whitmer is like,
[00:48:28]  okay, so for January 6th, we know for a fact, we know that a bunch of oath keepers, a bunch of proud boys, three percenters, like these are the three groups that like the media was like, okay, these are the guys that really like push this thing, right?
[00:48:43]  We know for a fact that there are federal like informants in all three of those groups.
[00:48:49]  Yeah.
[00:48:49]  And at the top of these groups.
[00:48:51]  Yeah.
[00:48:51]  At the top of these groups, you mentioned Tario.
[00:48:53]  He was told not to go to January 6th, right?
[00:48:56]  That's just.
[00:48:57]  Some of you guys are cool.
[00:48:58]  Don't go to the Capitol tomorrow.
[00:49:00]  Yeah.
[00:49:01]  So it's like, okay, wait, what extent are these groups infiltrated by the FBI?
[00:49:05]  And starting when?
[00:49:07]  And like, how many undercover agents and or those are, that's different than an informant, were at the Capitol riots.
[00:49:17]  And like, were they meant to interfere?
[00:49:19]  Were they not?
[00:49:19]  Were they just passive?
[00:49:21]  Like, was it the same thing that happened at the state house when all those guys got there?
[00:49:24]  And like, at what point do those decisions get made?
[00:49:28]  Like, why was this allowed to go on is a good question then?
[00:49:32]  Well, I think on some level with January 6th, I mean, not, and I want to be clear here, I'm not impugning the FBI and whoever else with good motives or anything.
[00:49:41]  I think part of that was probably unavoidable, right?
[00:49:44]  Like they can't cancel the rally.
[00:49:46]  It's something like that's going to happen.
[00:49:47]  Yeah, totally.
[00:49:48]  No, no.
[00:49:48]  I mean, you know, whatever.
[00:49:50]  People probably listen to what our thoughts on that and what happened.
[00:49:53]  Like, I think it's just, I'm just very interested in literally like how much if that whole thing, I mean, look, the Capitol Police is getting a massive budget increase after this.
[00:50:06]  And so much political noise has been made about this thing, you know, about January 6th and the riots that happened.
[00:50:14]  The Reichstag riots.
[00:50:16]  Yeah.
[00:50:17]  And if it was deeply, deeply like infiltrated by the FBI, that's something that people should know and we should be asking about.
[00:50:29]  Yeah, no, 100%.
[00:50:31]  I agree.
[00:50:31]  And I think just like, I think what drives me crazy about a lot of this stuff is that everybody knows all this shit is fake.
[00:50:38]  I mean, it's like, it's all fucking spectacular.
[00:50:42]  It's all spectacle.
[00:50:43]  Like these, like these, these army of informants and agents are fucking setting people up and putting them away for the rest of their lives for, you know, simply to either get, you know, another case down or whatever or to freak people out, all kinds of different reasoning behind that.
[00:50:59]  But no one can, no one does anything about it.
[00:51:01]  I mean, the FBI in that way is as unaccountable as the CIA is, right?
[00:51:04]  Like it's something we all know that they're doing these ugly, evil things and terrorizing people and ruining people's lives.
[00:51:12]  But there's been no real pushback on it.
[00:51:15]  Well, look at the crook politicians.
[00:51:16]  They enjoy it just as much.
[00:51:17]  They're using everyone else's pawns just like the FBI and CIA are, right?
[00:51:22]  It's like, these fucking jokers are capitalizing it on it politically while a bunch of people get locked up.
[00:51:30]  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[00:51:31]  I mean, there's like 550 people charged by the FBI.
[00:51:36]  Yeah.
[00:51:37]  January 6th.
[00:51:38]  And there's like 300 more they're trying to identify.
[00:51:41]  And a lot of people are helping too.
[00:51:43]  I mean, that's, that's, that's.
[00:51:45]  Like friends and family and just like citizen vigilantes.
[00:51:49]  I mean, it's just like, you know, and the politicians go along with it because it's convenient.
[00:51:54]  I don't know.
[00:52:11]  And if all this wasn't absurd and enervating enough, the public face essentially...
[00:52:23]  of the FBI's effort against the Wolverine Watchmen, I should not say that and take it seriously.
[00:52:31]  Mean, come on, Wolverine Watchman with crazy.
[00:52:35]  Yeah, the guy's name is Richard Trask, and I encourage you to look up a picture of this guy.
[00:52:41]  You know, Richard Trask, Dick Trask, FBI.
[00:52:44]  I'm gonna make a movie called Richard Trask.
[00:52:47]  Well, he ran some of these undercovers, he coordinated a lot of this stuff.
[00:52:51]  I mean, actually, not undercover, excuse me, informants.
[00:52:54]  Actually, each of these informants had their own handler.
[00:52:56]  I mean, there was a lot.
[00:52:57]  I think everybody involved in this case at one point, like had an agent assigned to them.
[00:53:01]  There's a lot of people assigned to this case.
[00:53:02]  Fucking like bureaucratic matrix of this shit is mind-numbing.
[00:53:06]  But Trask was like a big wig in charge of this case.
[00:53:09]  You know, he's appeared in court.
[00:53:11]  He has written a bunch of the stuff against the defendants.
[00:53:15]  And he was arrested recently.
[00:53:19]  And like, this is obviously absurd and like kind of funny in its absurdity, but like this actually lies like a truly fucked up evil man.
[00:53:27]  Is he attended a swingers party with his wife?
[00:53:31]  She had a few drinks there and felt uncomfortable.
[00:53:34]  She didn't want to be at the party.
[00:53:36]  So they go home.
[00:53:38]  And when they get home, he gets on top of her and repeatedly smashes her head as hard as he can against the nightstand.
[00:53:45]  Which means a few things.
[00:53:49]  One of which is that at this point, the FBI has officially done more harm to women than anybody else in this case.
[00:54:00]  But also, it's like, this is the kind of people who are working for the FBI, right?
[00:54:05]  Like, this man is a fucking piece of shit.
[00:54:08]  And like, as much as any of the people who are involved in this militia movement, I mean, this is some fucking, you know, you take your fucking wife to a party and be like, oh, you don't want to go fuck that guy.
[00:54:18]  You won't let me fuck.
[00:54:19]  I mean, I don't know what her objection exactly was, but you feel uncomfortable with this group sex orgy.
[00:54:24]  Well, and he takes her home and beats the shit out of her.
[00:54:28]  I mean, it's, it's absurd to me.
[00:54:29]  He also owns a CrossFit gym.
[00:54:30]  And so, you know, this guy is now, he can't own a gun.
[00:54:35]  He, you know, he is in some fairly big trouble with the law, which I'm sure will get squelched.
[00:54:40]  But like, this is who we're talking about on the other side here.
[00:54:42]  You know, there's no, the FBI are not fucking, I mean, I doubt anyone listening to this thinks the FBI are heroes, but like, these are fucking scumbags.
[00:55:09]  Well, before we sign off, I do want to mention one thing is that I was just scrolling through our notes real quick, which we didn't really refer to very much.
[00:55:15]  No, we certainly did not.

=== Number Six Questions (01:42) ===

[00:55:18]  Briece added some point here that I just wanted to bring out.
[00:55:21]  No, don't do it.
[00:55:22]  I don't know what it is, but don't do this.
[00:55:24]  It's on a list of some.
[00:55:26]  There's a list that I had some questions where it was just like random questions that I have.
[00:55:31]  And number six, will you read number six, Brace?
[00:55:34]  All right, let me scroll down to it.
[00:55:35]  All right, where are this?
[00:55:36]  We do a lot of, you know, oh, yeah, okay, yeah, I see it now.
[00:55:41]  Uh, okay, number six.
[00:55:43]  All the other ones were like actual questions that Liz had.
[00:55:45]  Um, uh, and number six, I added, which was just Tamerlin Sarniav.
[00:55:51]  But that is no, that is a good thing.
[00:55:54]  There are some questions.
[00:55:55]  There are many questions about Sarnia brothers.
[00:55:59]  Well, here's the thing I want to say: we have many questions.
[00:56:03]  Those questions shall soon be answered on this very podcast.
[00:56:07]  Yes, they shall.
[00:56:08]  And we will be having Joker on the show.
[00:56:11]  But no, that is, I mean, that's the thing.
[00:56:14]  Boston bombing, Tamerlin rumored, and I think very, very convincingly rumored to be an informant.
[00:56:23]  And so there's also, of course, a lot more questions about possible outside influence and mysterious other people in that particular incident as well.
[00:56:33]  He's referring to Marky Mark and the movie.
[00:56:35]  And Liz Francak.
[00:56:37]  Oh, great.
[00:56:39]  Well, with that being said, my name is Commander-in-Chief of the Where Should I Makeup That I Live? of the Long Beach Dub All-Stars, Bryce Belden.
[00:56:53]  I'm Liz.
[00:56:54]  We are, as always, joined by our producer, Young Chomsky, and we will see you next time.
[00:57:00]  Bye-bye.