True Anon Truth Feed - Episode 120: The Art of the Deal
Aired: 2020-11-26
Duration: 01:20:09


=== Australia's Unique Cultural Quirks (03:25) ===

[00:00:00]  Hello, welcome to Pedophile Talk.
[00:00:02]  This is number four.
[00:00:04]  There's only four radio stations in Australia, and this is the fourth one.
[00:00:09]  This is the Midnight Show on Channel 4.
[00:00:13]  My name, of course, is Bruce Bryce Belding.
[00:00:17]  And of course, this is your source for all issues on pedophilia.
[00:00:22]  We hear every side of the issue, pro, neg, everything.
[00:00:27]  And we have, of course, arrayed with us today a panel of geists that much requested from our listener base, which includes most of the country, according to recent demographic studies.
[00:00:41]  We have, of course, Prince Inju here with us.
[00:00:45]  We have my food.
[00:00:48]  We have a couple of men just answered an internet survey.
[00:00:54]  And of course, we have John Shaki here.
[00:00:58]  Cola, it is so good to hear from you.
[00:01:01]  Do you have anything for our panel of geists?
[00:01:04]  Anything you want to ner from them?
[00:01:09]  Wait, we can do it again.
[00:01:11]  Say no again.
[00:01:12]  Anything you want to know from them.
[00:01:15]  Ner.
[00:01:16]  I can't do it.
[00:01:17]  Yeah.
[00:01:18]  Well, that's why, you know how whenever you go to like a bar in like a tourist area of a town, there's like 100 Australians there just like chanting slurs.
[00:01:29]  It's because it's like it's like how the Amishgon Rum Spring Australians are forced to leave Australia for a couple of years when they turn 18 so they can learn how to pronounce the word no correctly.
[00:02:05]  Do you have any desire to go to Australia?
[00:02:07]  I've been to Australia.
[00:02:08]  I spent a month there when I was younger.
[00:02:10]  Wait, what?
[00:02:11]  Did I know that?
[00:02:12]  Yeah, when I was like 18, in my head, it's a bunch of money.
[00:02:16]  I think I had like $1,500 saved up.
[00:02:18]  And I had never left the country in any real way.
[00:02:22]  And certainly not as anything since I was like eight.
[00:02:24]  And I decided to go to Australia because I knew people in Australia.
[00:02:29]  I was like, I can stay on their couches.
[00:02:30]  And I went there and it was really something else.
[00:02:33]  I got choked when I was on mushrooms the first night I was there in Sydney.
[00:02:37]  Oh, yeah.
[00:02:37]  I think you told that story.
[00:02:39]  Yeah.
[00:02:41]  It was a hell of a lost a bunch of money, betting on dogs, took acid, took ecstasy.
[00:02:47]  I think I almost had sex with a dwarf, I guess you could say.
[00:02:54]  Did you like Australia?
[00:02:55]  Well, yes and no.
[00:02:58]  I mean, I'll tell you, the first day I was there, I was like, wow, this sucks.
[00:03:02]  This is like just like America.
[00:03:03]  Like, it's not like, I thought it would be like Hobbit houses.
[00:03:06]  And I know it's not New Zealand, but I thought it would be look different at least.
[00:03:11]  Instead, it was just America, but everything was really expensive.
[00:03:14]  And cigarettes were like $30 a month.
[00:03:16]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:03:17]  I've heard that.
[00:03:17]  Payphones were like a dollar.
[00:03:21]  Yeah.
[00:03:23]  It's really more of an island than a continent.
[00:03:25]  You know what I mean?

=== French Woman Rejoining Mossad (13:29) ===

[00:03:26]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:03:26]  There's a lot of space there.
[00:03:27]  And I didn't have enough money to actually really travel.
[00:03:29]  So I just ended up in Melbourne and like in like a town called Warrigal and like little small towns.
[00:03:34]  I almost got attacked by, I think, what's called a magpie.
[00:03:36]  Or I did get attacked by a magpie.
[00:03:38]  What's a magpie?
[00:03:39]  It's like a bird that's you're familiar with angry birds.
[00:03:43]  Not the game, like the concept, like the furious.
[00:03:46]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:03:47]  Okay.
[00:03:48]  It was like one of those.
[00:03:49]  Yeah, I got attacked by turkeys once.
[00:03:51]  Yeah, kind of, well, these ones fly, which is a little more fucked up.
[00:03:55]  And I was going to my buddy Snake's mom's house in the, it's like the wilderness.
[00:04:00]  And we got attacked by these fucking birds.
[00:04:03]  Well, hello, everyone.
[00:04:04]  Welcome.
[00:04:05]  This is True Nan.
[00:04:07]  My name is Sliz.
[00:04:09]  Hi.
[00:04:09]  I'm Bryce.
[00:04:10]  Sorry, I'm super nervous.
[00:04:11]  We're joined by Jan Chomsky.
[00:04:14]  Oh, my God.
[00:04:15]  We got a classic episode here.
[00:04:17]  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:04:20]  We got a good one, I think.
[00:04:22]  We got a little courtroom drama.
[00:04:24]  And we are back to our roots.
[00:04:28]  In fact, we are doing a mini-series that I'm calling roots about this.
[00:04:32]  No, it's too.
[00:04:34]  This is, no, we are back on Epstein's Island, baby.
[00:04:38]  And we are talking about his original court case.
[00:04:44]  But before we get into that, I have a question for you because I saw some things you were tweeting.
[00:04:49]  And there's a little television show on the streaming service Hulu that feature that there's a show on there about the YPG.
[00:05:06]  Is that correct?
[00:05:07]  Funnily enough, about the YPG.
[00:05:09]  Well, so I thought it was, there's a show called No Man's War.
[00:05:15]  No Man's War?
[00:05:16]  No Man's War, which I'll be honest with you.
[00:05:18]  What?
[00:05:18]  There's a lot of men.
[00:05:19]  Is that what it's called?
[00:05:21]  Yes, that's what it's called.
[00:05:22]  Or No Man's Land.
[00:05:23]  I think it's No Man's.
[00:05:24]  No Man's Land is a thing.
[00:05:25]  No Man's War is not a thing.
[00:05:27]  I got to look this up.
[00:05:28]  Is it no?
[00:05:29]  It says it at the beginning of every episode.
[00:05:31]  No Man's War.
[00:05:32]  No Man's War.
[00:05:33]  No, No Man's Land.
[00:05:35]  That is a book called No Man's War, Irreverent Confessions of an Infantry War.
[00:05:39]  Okay.
[00:05:39]  Okay.
[00:05:39]  You're right.
[00:05:40]  Okay.
[00:05:40]  Yes.
[00:05:41]  It's called No Man's Land.
[00:05:43]  Which, be honest with you, a lot of men in that land.
[00:05:46]  So not really sure what that's all about.
[00:05:48]  But it is, I thought it was going to be like a show about a French guy who joins the YPG.
[00:05:53]  It kind of like, that's what the trailer makes it look like.
[00:05:56]  But having seen every episode at this point, it appears to be a drama about kind of all about the Middle East, including about a French woman who is recruited by an NGO that is later revealed to be Mossad to spy on Iran.
[00:06:12]  Wait, hold on.
[00:06:13]  Are you saying that an NGO is a front for guns?
[00:06:17]  Yes, and this NGO is shown to be operating in the country of Syria, too.
[00:06:22]  So maybe a little tip of the tip of the hat there.
[00:06:25]  Yeah, this is apparently Gray Zone was consulted on this.
[00:06:29]  No, but it is, I mean, I did find it realistic in that respect.
[00:06:32]  So I'm like, oh, that's probably true.
[00:06:34]  But yeah, a French lady is recruited by Mossad, essentially.
[00:06:39]  She participates in the murder of Iraqi nuclear scientists where some innocent people, which I would include the, or excuse me, Iranian nuclear scientists, where some innocent people also die, which I would include also those scientists.
[00:06:54]  And she quits and it's a long story, but she joins the YPJ to get away from Mossad.
[00:07:02]  And her brother goes to find her.
[00:07:04]  And there is a character that is very clearly based on me that is featured heavily in it.
[00:07:10]  Yeah, okay.
[00:07:10]  So I'm going to stop there because I have only seen screenshots that you've sent me.
[00:07:17]  This dude looks like you.
[00:07:19]  I mean, so it's weird because he's not Jewish.
[00:07:24]  He's got big old black rim glasses.
[00:07:28]  Yeah.
[00:07:28]  And sort of same kind of, well, different, very different hair.
[00:07:31]  He's like frosted tips or something, but like the same short hair.
[00:07:34]  And like, it's, they made his name Louis Quintero.
[00:07:38]  I had to look it up at the credits, which I guess they're like, well, if we make him Jewish, he'll be a little too on the nose.
[00:07:42]  So we'll make him a Spaniard.
[00:07:45]  Interesting.
[00:07:46]  And I was like, well, maybe it's not me.
[00:07:48]  Maybe it's just like an archetype or something.
[00:07:50]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:07:51]  But like it's definitely me.
[00:07:54]  At one point, they have him walking around.
[00:07:55]  They're like, well, how'd you get your nickname?
[00:07:57]  He's like, well, the Kurds all think I look like Woody Allen.
[00:08:01]  What?
[00:08:02]  Yeah.
[00:08:03]  And I think they like there.
[00:08:05]  Wait, what's the nickname?
[00:08:07]  Woody.
[00:08:08]  He doesn't look like Woody Allen.
[00:08:11]  I mean, what other Woody would he be named after?
[00:08:13]  I love that, like, how'd you get your nickname?
[00:08:14]  It's like, oh, after Woody Guthrie, it just makes sense.
[00:08:18]  Nobody even knows what he looks like.
[00:08:19]  But it literally was, it was that in my like weird paranoid part of my brain was like, well, I once said in an interview that a single Kurdish guy called me Mr. Bean a single time.
[00:08:33]  As I'm listeners of this show will be well aware.
[00:08:36]  I have dealt with the fallout from this incident for a long time.
[00:08:41]  But I mentioned that in an interview and I'm assuming that like this character is just based upon that single interview or something because that's not something that like Kurdish people or like, excuse me, the YPG does.
[00:08:53]  They don't like call you like Ben Stiller or whatever if you look like Ben Stiller.
[00:08:57]  They should have the writers should have gone with just like another British TV show as opposed to Woody Allen.
[00:09:04]  They should have just been like, oh, we call him Ted after Father Ted.
[00:09:09]  But yeah, yeah.
[00:09:11]  They also make a reference to him having like a large social media account, I think, probably as a nod to Piss Pit.
[00:09:16]  I like the idea of it being Instagram, though.
[00:09:18]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:09:20]  He's a huge Instagrammer.
[00:09:22]  So he does live all the time.
[00:09:23]  But the show is weird because it's like parts of it are kind of realistic, like when it shows like the YPJ, like, I mean, the uniforms and like guns are kind of realistic, although sometimes not.
[00:09:37]  But like the actual fighting that they show is like, it's very, I mean, it's not, nothing to do with reality.
[00:09:46]  The cool thing that I thought was really cool about it is that it shows this French woman just rejoining Mossad and Mossad basically having people high placed in ISIS and in the YPJ.
[00:09:59]  And I looked up and I was like, that's very weird because, you know, PKK, the YPG, or let's say some familiar relations with got their start fighting Israel and have not like, don't have much of a relationship with that country.
[00:10:13]  And everyone knows that ISIS is all CIA.
[00:10:16]  Well, that's the thing.
[00:10:17]  So I'm like, okay, that's a little realistic.
[00:10:19]  But like, I looked it up and the fucking guy who made this show created that show Euphoria.
[00:10:24]  And he was, he's former Israeli intelligence.
[00:10:28]  Wait, really?
[00:10:29]  Yes, he's a former Israeli intelligence agent.
[00:10:32]  The show about like teen euphoria is the one about like all the like teens breaking bad or whatever.
[00:10:38]  Yeah, part of my non-prosecution agreement is I can't watch it, but yes, it's like, it's like teen breaking bad, I guess.
[00:10:44]  I googled it and I guess it doesn't show any adults in it.
[00:10:47]  Like, it's, I don't know.
[00:10:49]  It's a it's all teen?
[00:10:50]  Just Israeli things, baby.
[00:10:52]  Oh my god.
[00:10:53]  All right.
[00:10:54]  Well, let's get into the show.
[00:10:56]  As we mentioned.
[00:10:57]  Wait, I do want to say one more thing.
[00:10:59]  Oh, my God.
[00:11:01]  So, to the guy who made Euphoria and who made this fucking stupid TV show that I had to watch in the hopes that I would be able to see a character based off of me, which, by the way, I received no financial compensation for.
[00:11:14]  I will hunt you to the end of the fucking earth.
[00:11:20]  And also, I will pretend Euphoria's got some like pedophile stuff in it so I can eventually ruin your career.
[00:11:26]  Anyways, let's talk about what we're doing.
[00:11:27]  It probably does, right?
[00:11:28]  I'm sure it does.
[00:11:29]  I'm never going to watch it.
[00:11:30]  What is it?
[00:11:32]  You know, the show Skins?
[00:11:34]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:11:35]  It's like it's Israeli skins.
[00:11:36]  But no, it's American.
[00:11:39]  But it's based off an Israeli one.
[00:11:41]  Oh, it was Israeli and then now it's American.
[00:11:44]  Classic.
[00:11:44]  It's usually the other way around.
[00:11:45]  Yeah.
[00:11:46]  Okay.
[00:11:47]  Back to the show.
[00:11:49]  Epstein.
[00:11:50]  We got stuff to talk about.
[00:11:52]  So a couple weeks ago, the Justice Department of the United States, DOJ, released a report basically examining whether or not the original original case from 2007, 2008 in Florida was ever mishandled, right?
[00:12:12]  Yeah, it was put together by the DOJ's Office of Professional Responsibility, which I think some podcasts could also use.
[00:12:21]  And it appears to have been, although I don't know if it's directly, at the behest of one Ben Sasse.
[00:12:27]  Oh, man.
[00:12:28]  Senator, the junior senator from Nebraska, the great state of Nebraska.
[00:12:33]  This dude, we were talking about this before we started recording.
[00:12:36]  I mean, I think he is the most obsessed with Epstein out of anyone in Congress.
[00:12:41]  And he's Republican.
[00:12:43]  We got to get him on the show.
[00:12:44]  My whole thing is like, you want to look at Ben Sasse and you're like, this guy was not invited to the island.
[00:12:50]  I mean, he's just provincial.
[00:12:53]  He looks like a fucking dork.
[00:12:55]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:12:56]  But they're all the same.
[00:12:58]  I mean, he's, I don't know why.
[00:13:00]  I mean, maybe he's like really just into the case and thinks it's helpful, but I don't know.
[00:13:05]  He went to Harvard and Yale.
[00:13:06]  I don't trust him.
[00:13:07]  Oh, yeah, me either then.
[00:13:08]  Yeah.
[00:13:09]  I don't know.
[00:13:09]  I know really nothing about him except that I just don't like him.
[00:13:13]  Do if any of our listeners know him, if any of our listeners know Senator Ben Sasse, please, we would like to talk to him on the podcast.
[00:13:22]  But only if you actually know him.
[00:13:23]  Like, please don't DM me in any other circumstance.
[00:13:25]  Yeah, no.
[00:13:26]  Okay.
[00:13:27]  So, yeah, only so they prepared this report, this huge report.
[00:13:33]  It has not been released to the public.
[00:13:36]  There's an executive summary that they released, which is basically like a little press release, kind of like, yeah, summarizing, allegedly summarizing what's in the report.
[00:13:46]  But yeah, only a couple members of Congress have seen it, as well as a couple news outlets.
[00:13:54]  I think one of them being the Miami Herald.
[00:13:56]  Yeah, it looks like it just like one subcommittee or something received it from the DOJ, and then they leaked it to McClatchy, which I guess owns the Miami Herald.
[00:14:05]  God.
[00:14:06]  And so the Miami Herald has seen it and has put out a couple articles with some findings from it that aren't in the summary.
[00:14:15]  I've read the summary.
[00:14:16]  The summary is mostly background.
[00:14:18]  Like most of it's literally just a summary of what happened.
[00:14:23]  And then there's maybe a page of like actual findings.
[00:14:28]  And from what I can gather from the Miami Herald, and I did send out emails to a couple people from Miami Herald just asking if I can see it, which I do not think will get responded to.
[00:14:40]  But it appears there'll probably a lot more in this report, considering I do it all the time and no one ever responds.
[00:14:47]  Turns out having a podcast with a name that sounds like QAnon does not endear you to journalists.
[00:14:53]  Yeah.
[00:14:53]  Also, you know, constantly railing about how much we hate journalists.
[00:14:57]  Yeah, but like they never heard it.
[00:14:58]  You know what I mean?
[00:14:58]  I'm always like, listen, like themselves, let's be real.
[00:15:02]  I have a foundation.
[00:15:03]  Well, I also try to say that I have a pro-journalist foundation in order to kind of like hint that I can bribe them.
[00:15:09]  But there apparently does seem to be a lot of kind of juicy details about the investigation within the actual 300-page report.
[00:15:18]  Those details are mostly missing from the executive summary, although there are some sort of like broad overviews of the findings of the report.
[00:15:28]  And there are some juicy details that have been sort of leaked out by the Miami Herald.
[00:15:34]  Yeah, so I think that before we kind of get into what's in the DOJ report and what's kind of what some of the meat is in some of these Miami Herald pieces, we kind of have to like backtrack a little bit and get into some, like kind of retell this story because I think I don't think we've ever really covered a lot of the court cases in detail on the podcast.
[00:15:59]  Like we've never done an episode.
[00:16:00]  Maybe that's this episode.
[00:16:01]  I don't know.
[00:16:02]  But we've never really done an episode talking specifically about the court cases, right?
[00:16:07]  No, we haven't.
[00:16:08]  I mean, here's the thing is, is the way the Epstein stuff really got in spotlight was through the Perversion of Justice series by Julik K. Brown in the Miami Herald.
[00:16:18]  And I think quite a lot of the people when we first started doing the podcast had already read that.
[00:16:23]  I don't know if that's true necessarily anymore, just because we have kind of a wider listener base now.
[00:16:28]  But I think sort of the details around that, and especially, you know, the sort of firestorm around Acosta and, you know, him having to resign, I think a lot of those kind of details came out.
[00:16:38]  But it is a little more confusing than I think a lot of people might think.
[00:16:42]  I mean, there's a lot of different details.
[00:16:48]  I don't know exactly why we never covered it, but I think it does deserve kind of a closer look today.

=== Bedroom Memos Leak (07:35) ===

[00:16:55]  Yes.
[00:16:56]  So let's time travel back.
[00:17:03]  Wait, no, Liz, we've gone too far.
[00:17:06]  oh no, shit, we're in, uh, wait, what year is it?
[00:17:10]  It's, oh.
[00:17:11]  It's 2001, Liz.
[00:17:13]  September 10th.
[00:17:15]  Quick.
[00:17:17]  Brace, tell everyone.
[00:17:18]  Tell everyone you know.
[00:17:20]  Okay, listen.
[00:17:23]  Fellow Israelis, we are blowing up the Twin Towers tomorrow.
[00:17:28]  Okay, no, actually, we're back, we're going to 2005, which was a year that I can't remember anything that happened in 2005.
[00:17:39]  I was five.
[00:17:40]  No, you weren't.
[00:17:42]  No, until 2005 was the year that the real big investigation, the first investigation into Jeffrey Epstein's dealing started.
[00:17:50]  After parents had become concerned, after a girl got in trouble at school and they had found a bunch of the principal or vice principal, that's usually who's in charge of discipline, had found a bunch of money in her purse.
[00:18:00]  And it came out that she had been giving massages to creepy old men.
[00:18:04]  They went to the police and through that girl, the police found eventually dozens and dozens of girls who had been lured to Epstein's house under the promise of amateur massages.
[00:18:15]  And then, of course, you all know what happened then.
[00:18:17]  Yeah.
[00:18:18]  So the Palm Beach police, they, I mean, they have like a pretty thorough investigation.
[00:18:24]  Yeah.
[00:18:24]  That's, you know, it goes on for like 12, 13 months.
[00:18:30]  You know, they search his home.
[00:18:33]  That's where a lot of the, you know, memos that we've seen, like from his house, from his phone, like phone pad or whatever, and his, like, you know, the found receipts and his trash.
[00:18:45]  That's where all of that came from, was from the Palm Beach police investigation.
[00:18:50]  Yeah, it's funny.
[00:18:51]  I actually really, really dug through his trash for like months before.
[00:18:55]  And I think it's in either Filthy Rich or the or the Brad Edwards book, where they talk about they like literally got like a garbage man who did, who, you know, who actually was one of the garbage men who worked at his house or who worked the route that his house was on to steal his trash every week.
[00:19:12]  And they found quite a lot of stuff in there, including like report cards from girls.
[00:19:17]  When they searched his house, they found a girl's transcript in his bedroom, which is generally not something that a non-pedophile keeps in the bedroom of their house.
[00:19:39]  So when after the Palm Beach PD, like, you know, compiled their investigation, they basically, you know, they have like a full affidavit that they pass off to the state's attorney, the state attorney's office.
[00:19:56]  basically saying, recommending charges.
[00:19:58]  I think it was a bunch of different counts of like sex with minors, which, you know, is non-conceptual, right?
[00:20:08]  And I guess to explain this case, we need to talk a little bit about the state attorney's office in Palm Beach and a guy named Barry Krischer, which is a great name.
[00:20:20]  I love saying Barry.
[00:20:21]  Barry.
[00:20:22]  Barry Krisher.
[00:20:24]  He is an interesting cat and in a way mirrors Alex Acosta in a lot of ways.
[00:20:31]  He was a sort of like local Democratic like bigwig, you know, like a party boss for that, for that part of Florida.
[00:20:40]  And he is, he's, I think in his, at the time the Epstein stuff happens, he's in like his fourth term as a Palm Beach state attorney.
[00:20:47]  And I guess at first he seems like really stoked to put Jeffrey away.
[00:20:51]  Yeah.
[00:20:52]  I mean, because it was a big hype.
[00:20:53]  That's the thing people have to understand.
[00:20:55]  Like this was a big high-profile case in the news.
[00:20:58]  Like in Palm Beach, everyone knew it was going on.
[00:21:02]  The parents of a lot of the victims were quite vocal and the schools were really embarrassed by what had happened.
[00:21:09]  So at least for him at first, this looks like a great case to kind of like make a name.
[00:21:18]  You know, he's like Brace kind of said, he's like a careerist and a career guy.
[00:21:23]  And he's a career party, party apparatchic.
[00:21:26]  And it makes a lot of sense for him to kind of get a slam dunk with this case, you know, get his name in the papers for whatever else might come his way in the future.
[00:21:36]  Except, oops, that's not what happened.
[00:21:39]  No, because information about this case sort of coming together, of course, leaks to Epstein's house and there's, or excuse me, to Epstein's sort of team.
[00:21:49]  And there is actually quite a lot of leaks coming out of Krisher's office towards Epstein at this point.
[00:21:55]  During a search of his house, all of, it's like very apparent, I guess, that Epstein had been tipped off the night before and all electronic devices, cell phones, computers, and the famous security system with the video cameras had actually been removed from the house the night before.
[00:22:11]  And that clearly information had come from Krisher's office.
[00:22:14]  Krisher, like Liz mentioned, was sort of an apparatchic and was kind of eyeing higher office.
[00:22:21]  Remember, this is 2005, actually at this point, 2006.
[00:22:25]  And sort of the general consensus was that Hillary Clinton was going to run in 2008 and that she might be president.
[00:22:31]  And what better way to ingratiate yourself with Hillary Clinton than to maybe not charge a guy that's friends with her husband with pedophile?
[00:22:41]  Well, that's what's so crazy.
[00:22:42]  So it's so weird because Chrischer, like, it seems like from all the reporting around this, is that Krischer actually had no idea who Jeffrey Epstein was prior to any of this, which is very weird because Epstein was, you know, I mean, he was, you know, you'd think that if you were kind of like in not only like in the Palm Beach scene, like political scene, but also within the like Democratic Party, like you would know who Epstein was.
[00:23:12]  Like he was a big donor.
[00:23:14]  You know, he was, of course, on the Council of Foreign Relations.
[00:23:18]  He, you know, was pretty tight with.
[00:23:20]  He's friends with Bill Clinton.
[00:23:21]  Yeah, who is at this time, you guys remember, the head of the party.
[00:23:24]  Still the head of the party at this time, right?
[00:23:28]  So it's very odd, but he basically gets a call from a guy named Alan Dershowitz, who our listeners might remember.
[00:23:39]  Yeah, we interviewed him on episodes 7, 14, 21, 48, 74, 102, 103, 104, 105, and of course, 119.
[00:23:51]  Yes, and all those interviews have unfortunately been edited out, but perhaps someday we'll release them.
[00:23:56]  No, so he gets a call from Derschwitz, and suddenly Krushcher is like, huh, interesting.
[00:24:01]  Okay, whoops, never mind.
[00:24:03]  Not interested in prosecuting Epstein.
[00:24:06]  Yeah, he puts this woman who, and I hate to say it, I sound like Liz here.
[00:24:11]  This woman has a hot name.
[00:24:12]  Oh, it's so good.
[00:24:14]  Lena Belalovic.
[00:24:16]  No, that's Lana Belalovich.
[00:24:19]  Okay, Lena Belalovic.
[00:24:21]  No, I just sort of paused on this.
[00:24:22]  It's so good.
[00:24:23]  Lana Belilovich.
[00:24:26]  Like, can't you see like glossy brunette bob?

=== Lana's Dossiers (03:24) ===

[00:24:30]  Little like Allie McBeal skirt suit, little career prosecutor trying to make her way, little briefcase, little like satin touch pantyhose.
[00:24:39]  Okay, briefcase is the sole thing that I've actually been able to picture from this.
[00:24:43]  I haven't understood anything else you've said.
[00:24:45]  Oh my God.
[00:24:46]  But I get, I know what that, I get what's going on here.
[00:24:49]  So he, he puts this chick, Lana, this prosecutor, Lana, in fucking charge of it.
[00:24:54]  And she does what might be termed a shitty fucking job.
[00:24:59]  Because at this time, you know, of course, Epstein's team knows full well about this investigation's going.
[00:25:04]  They obviously have a man on the inside.
[00:25:06]  They're probably being fed every single thing that's happening.
[00:25:08]  And they start surveilling these girls.
[00:25:10]  And this is detailed really well in Bradley Edwards' book about the case.
[00:25:16]  But they do everything from like, they're following them around.
[00:25:19]  They're videotaping them at work.
[00:25:20]  They're videotaping them at school.
[00:25:21]  They're going through their stuff.
[00:25:22]  They're coming to their houses.
[00:25:24]  And they compile these dossiers basically with the intention of making these young girls out to have been prostitutes or to currently be prostitutes.
[00:25:34]  A lot of that is evidence we've actually seen from about a year ago.
[00:25:38]  I think we covered it in one of the early episodes where there's just like MySpace pages printed out with what were the posts, I guess, that you would make with like some of these girls saying like, I love weed.
[00:25:51]  Yeah, there was like, it's really hard for us to see the MySpace dossiers, as they're referred to.
[00:25:59]  There's like, they're printed pages of these girls' MySpace pages.
[00:26:03]  And in, you know, it was part of the big like document dump that initially happened a couple years ago or last year in relation to the case.
[00:26:12]  And it's really difficult to see because of the way they've been photocopied in the 2000s, unfortunately.
[00:26:19]  And a lot of stuff is redacted.
[00:26:21]  But it's just a fucking, it's like a fucking, a bunch of fucking social media profiles.
[00:26:25]  And, you know, this is real girls.
[00:26:27]  Yeah, this is like early internet.
[00:26:29]  Like everyone shared everything back then.
[00:26:30]  They have their little top eight and you always had to move people around in your top eight.
[00:26:34]  I bet Jeffrey was in some girls' top eight, which is very sad.
[00:26:38]  Yeah, and it's it's like the posts are fairly like, I mean, tame, you know, like it's, you know, it's people talking about how much they like drinking and smoking weed.
[00:26:48]  I mean, they're 15-year-old girls.
[00:26:49]  But the point was to show these girls are drug-addicted prostitutes.
[00:26:54]  Now, you might be wondering, how can you be a prostitute if you're a child?
[00:26:58]  And you would be correct to wonder that because you can't.
[00:27:01]  Yes.
[00:27:02]  That's a good question.
[00:27:04]  Yeah.
[00:27:06]  I would hesitate to, or excuse me, I wouldn't hesitate to say that I don't think any of these girls were prostitutes.
[00:27:11]  And I don't think that you can be a prostitute at the age of 14.
[00:27:15]  No, they're kids.
[00:27:16]  They're kids.
[00:27:17]  They're children.
[00:27:19]  She, so you might think, like, okay, well, you know, she's kind of being handed this stuff by Dershowitz, but I'm sure she does her own research.
[00:27:26]  No, Lena does not interview a single girl, which is astounding.
[00:27:32]  Yeah, it's actually so crazy.
[00:27:35]  Like, she literally, like, I mean, apparently, allegedly, this is all from sources within the office at the time because no one's been able to really track Lana down for an interview at this time.
[00:27:48]  But she, there was like, there were no papers with interviews of the victims.
[00:27:52]  It's not even clear that she ever even spoke to them.

=== FBI's Unprecedented Grand Jury Move (12:31) ===

[00:27:55]  So everything that is go that she's like compiling from this case is literally just based on the papers that Dershowitz and the rest of Epstein's team have given her.
[00:28:05]  Yeah, and meanwhile, it's like, it's, it's like the police involved in this.
[00:28:11]  And by the way, I want to make clear here that True Anon is a 100% Blue Lives Matter podcast.
[00:28:16]  Yes.
[00:28:17]  We bleed blue.
[00:28:19]  And this next sentence is sponsored by Black Rifle Coffee.
[00:28:24]  The police actually are like, what the fuck?
[00:28:26]  Why aren't you guys actually investigating this?
[00:28:28]  Because they're sort of like, you know, this was a big deal to them.
[00:28:32]  And they're really wondering why the prosecutor's office is beyond dragging their feet, not moving their feet or heels, not moving their feet at all.
[00:28:40]  And of course, many of the victims' parents are pretty concerned at this point too.
[00:28:43]  And they keep bothering, you know, the prosecutor's office.
[00:28:46]  I guess privately, Lena tells, tells, I believe the chief of police or either the lead detective on the case, I can't remember which, that she thinks these girls are hookers.
[00:28:56]  And so she tells actually Epstein's legal team that because of this, that she'd be down to do a pre-trial intervention, which basically means no jail time.
[00:29:09]  Yeah, so the cops get wind of this and they're fucking pissed, right?
[00:29:16]  So what Krishner's office does next is actually really ingenious, I guess, in a way.
[00:29:24]  So in order to get the media, the cops, and the parents up their back, they go to a grand jury to get an indictment on Epstein.
[00:29:34]  And so they get these people off their back and they move to the grand jury.
[00:29:39]  Now, why would they do that?
[00:29:41]  Now, there's a couple reasons.
[00:29:44]  One, a grand jury is very prosecutor-friendly, right?
[00:29:48]  And so prosecutors usually prefer grand juries because only the prosecutor side is presented.
[00:29:56]  There's no judge.
[00:29:58]  It's just like in a dark room with a panel of, you know, local citizens.
[00:30:03]  The proceedings are totally secret.
[00:30:06]  They're kept sealed forever.
[00:30:08]  It's torchlit, which people usually generally like a lot.
[00:30:12]  It's like a very good Florida ambiance.
[00:30:14]  Yes.
[00:30:16]  Yeah, it's like a weird holdover from like ancient legal times.
[00:30:22]  But the other reason why prosecutors like them is that they're very, very friendly.
[00:30:29]  So there's like that famous saying that grand juries will indict a ham sandwich because basically there's...
[00:30:37]  Aristotle said that, I think.
[00:30:38]  Yeah, they're seen as just like rubber stamps.
[00:30:41]  And so the idea being that the prosecution goes to the grand jury in order to get the like the indictment that they want out of it, right?
[00:30:52]  So we would think that then, because of all those things that are true, that Chris would move to the grand jury in order to get what they wanted, you know, get the indictment that they wanted to charge Epstein with, right?
[00:31:06]  But what's weird is that what is returned from the grand jury is a single indictment on solicitation of prostitution.
[00:31:18]  Yeah, it's pretty wild.
[00:31:21]  And like, so we don't exactly know what went on in this grand jury.
[00:31:24]  There's been a couple of leaks that have been reported where essentially we do know that Lena brought up the fact that like these girls were basically prostitutes in her opinion.
[00:31:35]  One thing that I think a lot of people have really found astounding about this, including myself, is that actually only three girls are asked to testify at this and they were told about it two days before it happened.
[00:31:47]  One was in college.
[00:31:48]  I think one just didn't show up.
[00:31:50]  And the only one that did, the only girl that testified at this case about the serial molestation of young girls was a 14-year-old girl.
[00:32:00]  We have no idea what she said, but it's because, and keep in mind, too, like as we learned at sort of the next stage of this, is that some of these girls were in fact got to by Epstein and paid off by them beforehand, which I'll be, you know, this is not like me making a moral judgment there.
[00:32:16]  You know, a lot of these girls were very poor and probably freaked the fuck out by this guy.
[00:32:20]  And some people might not yet.
[00:32:21]  You know, when you're a kid, sometimes you don't know that things you're doing are maybe not good for you, even while you're doing them or while you're doing them.
[00:32:30]  But yeah, they also do something I thought was really astounding at this is that they let the defense have a like statement read.
[00:32:38]  That is not something that usually happens.
[00:32:41]  Yeah, that's super weird.
[00:32:42]  So like I remember when I said that prosecutors like grand juries because they only present their side and you don't have to deal with the defense like you do in what's known as like a preliminary hearing, which happens in front of a judge.
[00:32:56]  So technically, I think prosecutors have like, you know, a legal obligation or like a bar obligation or whatever to present exculpatory evidence at a grand jury, but like literally no one does that.
[00:33:09]  Or it's like, you know, the lawyer's conscience is the enforcement mechanism there.
[00:33:15]  You know what I mean?
[00:33:16]  Like there's no like real mechanism other than, I guess, maybe like custom.
[00:33:20]  But like this is unheard of to have a statement read from Epstein's lawyers.
[00:33:27]  It's completely insane.
[00:33:29]  And so I guess what I'm trying to get at is that rather than this, the grand jury delivering what was not desired by the prosecutor's office, that like they didn't, things didn't go awry, right?
[00:33:46]  The office wanted this, this to be secured.
[00:33:49]  This is exactly the outcome they wanted.
[00:33:51]  There's no other way to read this.
[00:33:55]  And I mean, it's just a complete perversion.
[00:33:57]  Like you said, I mean, you know, the cops had built an insane case with like 30 victims.
[00:34:04]  Hours of taped interviews.
[00:34:06]  Yeah, I mean, it's just crazy.
[00:34:07]  So the Palm Beach police, after this, you know, the grand jury returns with this indictment, the Palm Beach police like freaks out.
[00:34:16]  They're fucking pissed.
[00:34:17]  They've been working a year on this case.
[00:34:19]  And they do something that's also unheard of.
[00:34:22]  There's a lot of like precedent-breaking things in this story.
[00:34:27]  But the Palm Beach police chief, Joe Ryder, he writes a letter to the FBI being like, dude, you guys, you got to intervene.
[00:34:37]  This is crazy.
[00:34:38]  This is a big case.
[00:34:40]  And if you guys know, maybe you guys watch Law and Order or, you know, maybe some of our older listeners enjoyed the show NYPD Blue.
[00:34:50]  But you might know that local cops and the FBI do not get along.
[00:34:56]  Yeah, and you might also wonder why the FBI would get involved in this case in the first place, because, you know, this is not unusual for a case like this to be tried in, you know, by, or excuse me, tried by a local prosecutor.
[00:35:11]  Like, you might wonder why this would be a federal case.
[00:35:13]  And of course, that would involve the airplane.
[00:35:16]  You know, some of these girls had ridden to the Lolita Express.
[00:35:19]  They've been crossed across state lines.
[00:35:21]  And, you know, the FBI actually ends up interviewing girls in New Mexico and New York and on basically all over.
[00:35:27]  We know Epstein's whole network was not only national, but international.
[00:35:33]  And the police make this known to the FBI.
[00:35:36]  They're like, listen, they also used, and we saw this in the Ghillain case, is that they used interstate communications, or like there's, I can't remember the exact term for it, but it's been explained to me that essentially that can even just mean you used a cell phone to communicate.
[00:35:50]  I think it's kind of a holdover from earlier times.
[00:35:53]  But basically, because of the way communications were done and because, of course, of the crossing of state lines, this is easily a federal case.
[00:36:12]  Also, about this time is Kirscher's team is essentially negotiating with Epstein's.
[00:36:20]  And it looks like Epstein is going to get what looks like a rehab program instead of doing any jail time.
[00:36:27]  That also further incenses the police.
[00:36:29]  And the FBI actually take an interest to this, especially after Joe Reeder, I think it is, or Ryder, however you fucking pronounce it, he actually writes an open letter asking Krischer to recuse himself from this because of his conduct.
[00:36:44]  So the FBI starts an investigation and they bring it to a federal prosecutor, excuse me, named Marie Villefania.
[00:36:55]  I have no idea if I'm pronouncing that.
[00:36:57]  That's right.
[00:37:00]  She's got the little N with a little squiggly above it.
[00:37:01]  So I'm like, I'm guessing that's a nya.
[00:37:04]  And she works with a couple of FBI agents to bring this case together.
[00:37:10]  Yeah, so, okay.
[00:37:13]  She works on this case for a long time.
[00:37:15]  Yes.
[00:37:15]  And from everything that we can kind of see from some of the reporting at the time and some that's been done more recently by the Miami Herald, is that like Villafania is really into this case and like puts together a pretty fucking solid case.
[00:37:33]  You know, she really takes what it sounds like, I mean, it sounds like she takes like what the Palm Beach police like have and just like build on it.
[00:37:45]  And she is basically responsible for the 53-page indictment and what it, what I think it's like an 82-page prosecution memo that the feds then, you know, are going to use to go after Epstein.
[00:38:00]  Now, as we've mentioned like multiple, multiple times in the show, we've never seen that indictment.
[00:38:06]  No one has ever seen the federal indictment.
[00:38:08]  No one has ever seen the prosecution memo because they've been locked in a safe or shredded and dissolved into the Hudson River.
[00:38:19]  But basically, it sounds like they were about to indict him on federal sex, like sex trafficking charges.
[00:38:26]  I should mention that some of the FBI's conduct around this time does seem a little fucking insane.
[00:38:32]  And as we've heard, you know, from multiple Epstein victims, the FBI has not always been extremely helpful in the case of Epstein.
[00:38:40]  You know, there's in Bradley Edwards' book, he talks about how some girls essentially thought they were going to be under arrest from the way that the FBI acted towards them.
[00:38:51]  They would roll up to their house in the middle of the night and bang on the door, or they would pull up in their driveway, like, you know, all over the lawn and stuff like that to do interviews.
[00:39:00]  In one case, I think they actually dropped off a ton of statements by other victims on one girl's front porch because she wasn't cooperating.
[00:39:09]  Very strange stuff.
[00:39:10]  But Vilafania sends the indictment and the prosecution memo to the main office in Miami.
[00:39:19]  That is where things get a little bit nutty with it.
[00:39:23]  Yeah, usually, I mean, prosecutors basically should have filed charges immediately.
[00:39:28]  My understanding is that, like, when these things get sent to then the state offices or the region, you know, whatever it is, the regional offices, that, you know, it's pretty much a like, okay, and then and then you file the charges.
[00:39:44]  But like, that didn't happen.
[00:39:47]  They did not file the charges.
[00:39:48]  Instead, it's basically like the buck.
[00:39:51]  What did they say?
[00:39:51]  Like, the book is passed.
[00:39:53]  No, wait.
[00:39:54]  They passed the book.
[00:39:55]  I mean, the saying is the buck stops here.
[00:39:57]  No, no.
[00:39:58]  You're saying they pass the book.
[00:40:00]  Yes.
[00:40:01]  I don't know.
[00:40:02]  There's a lot of buck pass.
[00:40:03]  I mean, the buck has literally been passed like through four people.
[00:40:07]  I don't know who holds the bucks in that sentence.
[00:40:09]  Okay.
[00:40:09]  Or that phrase, rather.
[00:40:10]  No one's got bucks.
[00:40:12]  There's bucks everywhere, but no one knows where because they've all slipped.
[00:40:16]  No one's got the bucks.
[00:40:18]  Yeah.
[00:40:18]  The bucks are gone.
[00:40:19]  Okay, anyway.
[00:40:20]  So what I mean to say is like, basically, they don't file charges as they should have.

=== Buck Passing Mystery (16:05) ===

[00:40:27]  And instead, it's passed down to her that she needs to start settling with Epstein.
[00:40:33]  And we should mention, and many of our listeners probably know, certainly if you were paying attention to the news last year, you definitely know that the guy in charge of the Southern District of Florida office, right, excuse me, attorney's office, was a guy named Alex Acosta.
[00:40:48]  He got a start as assistant attorney general for the civil rights division under George Bush from, I think, 2003.
[00:40:55]  Also, as I'm sure many of our union heads will remember, a member of the NLRB.
[00:41:02]  And he is basically in charge here.
[00:41:05]  And I want to say, Acosta has received a lot of heat for, I mean, obviously he had to leave his cabinet position, but it does appear that Acosta is kind of the fall guy in a lot of this.
[00:41:17]  I mean, there's a lot of kind of, there's actually a lot of fall guys, but the main people who might have given him the order to do what he did, I don't necessarily think this came from his own, this was necessarily all his choosing.
[00:41:31]  I do think he's 100% guilty and has deserved all the heat that he's got.
[00:41:35]  But I think that there's actually people above Acosta from what I gather and from sort of, you know, you can kind of read between the lines here is that there's that actually Epstein's team was going above Acosta.
[00:41:46]  And for a moment, let me actually talk about Epstein's team.
[00:41:50]  It is fucking insane.
[00:41:54]  Yeah.
[00:41:54]  I mean, we've, I mean, you know, we've talked, we've mentioned it before, but it's like, this is like the greatest hits of Y2K legal stars.
[00:42:05]  And I should mention mostly Republican legal stars, which I think is germane to this because Acosta, much like our friend Barry Krischer, had his eye on higher office.
[00:42:16]  Yeah.
[00:42:16]  And certainly the names that appeared on Epstein's roster would have piqued his interest.
[00:42:23]  Yeah.
[00:42:24]  Also, I mean, Republican admin at the time makes sense.
[00:42:27]  True.
[00:42:28]  So we got Alan Dershowitz, of course, the heavy hitter.
[00:42:32]  We got Jack Goldberger, a guy named Jay Lefkowitz, who had actually worked with Acosta before at this big-ass law firm called Kirkland and Ellis.
[00:42:40]  Kenneth Starr, who, I mean, that would have been like for Acosta.
[00:42:44]  I mean, that's like the final, not final boss, but that's a guy that you really like.
[00:42:48]  You know, he's a big name Republican lawyer.
[00:42:50]  Also, of course, of Kirkland and Ellis.
[00:42:53]  And I have Monica Lewinsky fame, too.
[00:42:56]  Of course.
[00:42:56]  And I think, yeah, Whitewater, too, or whatever that was.
[00:42:58]  Yeah.
[00:43:00]  He's like the George Clooney of real life American legal drama.
[00:43:05]  I look like him.
[00:43:07]  No.
[00:43:09]  Oh, you know, like the whole thing.
[00:43:11]  It's like, that's what, you know, you've been with me.
[00:43:13]  A bunch of that happens.
[00:43:14]  So we're like walking on the street and girls are like, wait, you look like George Clooney.
[00:43:19]  Oh my God.
[00:43:20]  I don't know.
[00:43:20]  You just, it's like you weren't even listening to what I said and you just wanted to say that you looked like George Clooney.
[00:43:25]  I don't.
[00:43:25]  That's not even a good joke.
[00:43:27]  Anyways, Guy Lewis, who'd actually had Acosta's job before him.
[00:43:31]  So, I mean, get this through your fucking head.
[00:43:33]  Epstein hired the guy who was previously in Acosta's position at his very workplace.
[00:43:40]  So I think he's got some connections there, possibly some insight into how the office works.
[00:43:45]  And Liz, this is actually your lawyer, Roy Black.
[00:43:48]  He actually, I bet the people, I don't know, I think we probably have more Zoomer listeners than Gen X listeners.
[00:43:55]  But Roy Black was the guy who famously got William Kennedy Smith off.
[00:44:01]  Emphasis on the Kennedy.
[00:44:03]  That's a Kennedy.
[00:44:04]  And he was, there was like a really big rape trial in, I think it was like 1991, 1991, 1992, somewhere around there, 1991.
[00:44:15]  Just really gruesome where, yeah, he got off scot-free, scotch-free, scot-free.
[00:44:22]  Ted Kennedy was involved too, as usual.
[00:44:26]  Well, there's another name here who I think many of our listeners will treasure to hear.
[00:44:31]  Steven Pinker assisted Epstein's legal team in giving a linguistic advice, regular Chomsky experiment there, on something called the Internet Luring Statute, specifically on the meaning, and this is very Clinton-esque, of the word using.
[00:44:48]  What?
[00:44:48]  I have read the thing that Pinker consulted on, and I'll tell you what, read it like seven times.
[00:44:55]  I don't fucking understand what's going on.
[00:44:56]  And that's probably the intention of it to kind of confuse you and to dazzle you with a big name.
[00:45:03]  But Acosta himself has said many times in interviews and statements since that this legal team intimidated him.
[00:45:10]  And in fact, as part of a letter he wrote that the Daily Beast got many years later, he says, Over the next several months, the defense team presented argument after argument claiming that felony criminal proceedings against Epstein were unsupported by the evidence and lacked a basis in law, and that the office's insistence on jail time was motivated by a zeal to overcharge a man merely because he's wealthy.
[00:45:33]  You hear that?
[00:45:33]  That's wealth phobia.
[00:45:35]  They bolstered their arguments with legal opinions from well-known legal experts.
[00:45:39]  One member of the defense team warned me that the office's excess zeal in forcing a good man to serve time in jail might be the subject of a book if we continued to proceed with this matter.
[00:45:51]  Little did he know that certainly these proceedings would absolutely be the subject of several books.
[00:45:57]  My office systematically considered and rejected each argument, which, you know, that is not true.
[00:46:03]  And when we did, my office's decisions were appealed to Washington.
[00:46:07]  As to the warning, I ignored it.
[00:46:08]  And this is interesting to note.
[00:46:11]  The defense strategy was not limited to legal issues.
[00:46:14]  Defense counsel investigated individual prosecutors and their families looking for personal piccadillios that may provide a basis for disqualification.
[00:46:24]  For instance, I mean, this isn't the prosecutor, but I think the Palm Beach chief of police, Epstein's legal team, intimated that he was pursuing this case so doggedly because he'd had a rough divorce.
[00:46:36]  Disqualifying a prosecutor is an effective, though rarely used, strategy as eliminating the individuals most familiar with the facts and thus most qualified to take a case to trial harms likelihood for success.
[00:46:48]  Defense counsel tried to disqualify at least two prosecutors.
[00:46:51]  I carefully reviewed and then rejected these arguments.
[00:46:56]  I mean, I don't really know what to make of that.
[00:46:58]  I mean, I, you know, I'm with you where I think that the Acosta thing goes way, way further up.
[00:47:04]  And there's a couple things even in DOJ's recent statement that I think alludes to that.
[00:47:11]  But I mean, he also knew what was going on.
[00:47:16]  Come on.
[00:47:17]  I kind of think that at this point is really when Acosta was probably told that Epstein belonged to intelligence.
[00:47:24]  Yeah, we should remind listeners that that is, of course, the famous quote that now is very difficult if you try to Google that.
[00:47:31]  Not the easiest thing to find because they've kind of scrubbed all mentions of him saying that off the internet or they've tried to.
[00:47:38]  But that was like from an article where it was like, you know, he was quoted as saying that he was told that Epstein belonged to intelligence and to leave it alone.
[00:47:48]  And that sort of does ring, that has a spiritual truth to it for me.
[00:47:54]  Like that does seem like the sort of thing that might come down the chain from Washington.
[00:47:59]  So the feds at this time afterwards, they basically prepare like a bunch of different plea deals, but all of them are rejected by Epstein's team.
[00:48:08]  It's funny because you would think, I don't know, when I was like going through this, I was like, okay, I'm Epstein.
[00:48:14]  I'm Epstein's team.
[00:48:15]  I feel like, man, I just want to take a deal.
[00:48:18]  I want this to go away.
[00:48:19]  No, these guys, they know how to negotiate.
[00:48:24]  They like do not take any of this shit.
[00:48:27]  They're like, no, sorry, to like every single thing the feds throw at them.
[00:48:31]  It's like kind of incredible.
[00:48:32]  This is the art of the deal, baby.
[00:48:35]  I mean, it is wild.
[00:48:36]  Like, originally, Epstein was supposed to, I mean, many people know that he got sentenced to and then 18 months and then served 13 months in jail.
[00:48:44]  He was originally supposed to get two years, 24 months, and they whittled that down to 20 months and then finally to 18 months.
[00:48:52]  So like you can tell these guys just put so much energy in basically taking six months off of this guy's sentence.
[00:48:58]  I mean, it's truly wild.
[00:49:00]  Like it, it, it, it, uh, at the same time, they're going around and intimidating these girls and sending private investigators to people's houses and essentially like, you know, turning, you know, parts of Florida into like a surveillance state in order to not intimidate these girls and to gather evidence against these girls in case this ever does go to trial.
[00:49:20]  Yeah, this is like, I mean, this is the classic mob moves they're making across the board.
[00:49:27]  Yeah, and it becomes pretty apparent.
[00:49:30]  And again, this is kind of reading through the lines and sort of, you know, seeing what's reported from the actual 300-page report.
[00:49:38]  But it becomes pretty apparent that Acosta's office is determined to go really, really soft on Epstein.
[00:49:49]  There's also not just the connection of Epstein's lawyer to Acosta's office.
[00:49:55]  There's actually a lot more connections than that.
[00:49:58]  One of the senior prosecutors on the case, a guy named Bruce Reinhart, was literally in the process of starting a new law firm with the same address as Epstein's lawyer, Jack Goldberger's firm.
[00:50:10]  So he's, I mean, obviously, like, he's just either, I don't mean, who knows what's actually happening there, but the same, not just the same building, the same address.
[00:50:20]  And by the end of 2008, he had actually quit the prosecutor's office and was working for Epstein representing his co-conspirators.
[00:50:30]  That's what I'm saying.
[00:50:31]  It's like, they're just making like crazy mob moves, man.
[00:50:34]  They're just buying everyone off, surveilling everyone, and going hard.
[00:50:39]  hard and dirty on the feds.
[00:50:41]  I mean, you kind of got to respect it.
[00:50:43]  I mean, they're really, I mean, it's, who knows how much money changed hands to get that to happen.
[00:50:48]  Yeah.
[00:50:49]  Another employee and another prosecutor who works at the office, although I don't think necessarily on the case.
[00:50:53]  Oh, I think he actually, no, he is working technically on the case.
[00:50:56]  He's just working above Villafanova.
[00:51:00]  A guy named Michael Manchel.
[00:51:03]  He also had a relationship with Epstein's lawyers several years prior.
[00:51:09]  He had snorked her.
[00:51:11]  Yeah.
[00:51:11]  Oof.
[00:51:13]  Okay.
[00:51:14]  So let's get into the details of how the MPA non-prosecution agreement actually like, you know, happened.
[00:51:23]  So October 2007, Alex Acosta meets with Jay Lefkowitz, who's a member on Epstein's legal team.
[00:51:32]  And they don't meet in their offices, but at the Marriott in West Palm Beach.
[00:51:39]  Which is 70 miles away from Acosta's office.
[00:51:43]  And this is not like a nice Marriott where like they have like, this is, I mean, I don't know if I'm not sure.
[00:51:49]  No, this is the kind of thing where they're like writing notes on napkins and then dissolving and like dropping them in glasses of tonic water so that no one can see.
[00:51:57]  This is like, this is where you take a girl that you never want to be seen with.
[00:52:01]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:52:03]  Yeah.
[00:52:03]  Wait, is this why you record with me at the Marriott?
[00:52:07]  I'm just saying they didn't want to be seen.
[00:52:09]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:52:11]  Unfortunately, they planned some of this on email, and so now everyone knows about it.
[00:52:17]  We'll get into that.
[00:52:19]  Yes.
[00:52:20]  But basically, this meeting happens and they kind of start to negotiate out the deal.
[00:52:27]  They agree, they agree that basically none of the victims are going to be notified, which is terrible.
[00:52:36]  Yeah, that's a big thing that Epstein's team is really, really adamant about is that like, I mean, they try to get this tried in Miami.
[00:52:44]  They, you know, they, they, or like, if it's going to go to trial, they insist that it's in Miami.
[00:52:49]  They, they say, like, they don't want the victims to be notified because then the media will be notified and blah, blah, blah.
[00:52:55]  One thing I found pretty disturbing was that Epstein, and I guess this makes sense.
[00:53:00]  I don't know.
[00:53:01]  I mean, I have never been involved in a court case like this.
[00:53:03]  So I'm not really sure if this is business as usual or not, or as usual or not.
[00:53:07]  But Epstein was provided a list of victims who had come out against him.
[00:53:12]  He was supposed to provide these girls with lawyers to sue him, essentially.
[00:53:16]  That was part of the deal: he would pay for lawyers.
[00:53:19]  And in a weird way, I think this is a way to bribe.
[00:53:22]  I mean, because as I mentioned, some of the lawyers who are literally working for the prosecutor will be doing this exact job I'm describing in a very short period of time, like a year from this meeting.
[00:53:33]  But he's going to pay for lawyers to represent some of the girls to either sue him, although some of the lawyers end up representing the girls in order to support him, although that never actually has to come to fruition.
[00:53:44]  That's just in interviews with the police.
[00:53:48]  They also mandated that he would plead guilty on two charges, prostitution charges, in state court, and he had to register as a sex offender.
[00:53:57]  Now, he really did not want to register as a sex offender.
[00:54:00]  And I think he registered as, I can't remember, it's escaping me right now, and I don't want to take the time to necessarily look it up.
[00:54:06]  But there's several different degrees of sex offender.
[00:54:08]  And I think he was like third degree.
[00:54:10]  I mean, I'm sure that's not the actual name for it.
[00:54:12]  But like, he actually was a minor scandal later when it came out that several political figures had helped him get his sex offender status essentially dropped to a lower level in the coming years.
[00:54:26]  And then he was supposed to get 18 months of jail and a year of house arrest.
[00:54:32]  Also, financial restitution of some of the girls.
[00:54:34]  Yeah.
[00:54:35]  So he also, so basically, they had him plead guilty to the two prostitution charges in the state court, in the, you know, as we were talking about the state charges before, right?
[00:54:50]  And there's also another, there's like another little weird note.
[00:54:53]  We, we've kind of touched on this in some of our early episodes, but there's like some suggestion that he provided a lot of info to the feds about Bear Sterns and kind of what was going on when he was working there in the late 80s.
[00:55:11]  Maybe what he knew about some of their practices.
[00:55:14]  It's like a little unclear exactly what, if that's true.
[00:55:18]  I mean, I think it might be true, but I that's another spiritual truth I feel is there because there's not actually a lot of evidence that he did give them any important information.
[00:55:29]  I'm pretty sure there's evidence that he was interviewed, but that's one of those things where I feel like there might have been some crime stuff.
[00:55:36]  Yeah, and specific to like executives at Bear Stern who were being prosecuted in 2008.
[00:55:42]  Yeah.
[00:55:42]  And Epstein was supposed to have cooperated very closely with the feds.
[00:55:46]  And it looks like he did cooperate with the feds, although we can't really get any information.
[00:55:50]  And at least the information we can get indicates that, like, he didn't really give them anything, which makes me think that he might have given them something, but it just might not be the kind of thing that we're allowed to know about.
[00:56:10]  There's another important part of the NPA that I think we would be remiss not to mention, and that involves some of my favorite words in the world, co-conspirators.
[00:56:21]  Yeah, this is the famous, very odd, well, odd in a series of odd things about this case and about this plea deal.

=== Plea Deal Controversies (15:06) ===

[00:56:32]  So, not only did he get federal immunity, but the four named co-conspirators in the federal indictment also get federal immunity.
[00:56:47]  We do not know who those are, although we have some guesses.
[00:56:50]  We're almost positive, or rather, it looks to be almost sure that two of them are Nadia Marchinkova or Nadia Marchinko, you know, depending on which day of the week it is, who's his sex slave that he bought from the Balkans at 15, who later became a pilot, and Sarah Kellen are most almost assuredly two of them.
[00:57:09]  Not to mention Gillain Maxwell.
[00:57:11]  Yeah, that's, I mean, you know, logically, that would be the third, yeah.
[00:57:17]  But the big thing was that also any future non-named co-conspirators would also get federal immunity.
[00:57:28]  Yes.
[00:57:29]  And actually, I shouldn't have been hedged about Ghelane because Ghelane actually cited this case in the Southern District of New York to show that she should not be prosecuted because she had immunity over this.
[00:57:41]  That did not go over very well.
[00:57:44]  I mean, that's also, I think, why they picked girls from a different time period in a different place to build the case around than the ones in Florida from this time period.
[00:57:55]  Because Acosta actually might have fucked up that even more.
[00:57:58]  So Ghelane could actually be facing even further charges if Acosta, I mean, actually, realistically, she should have gone to prison in 2007, but did not happen.
[00:58:08]  And now, I mean, a lot of people wondered why the Florida case really didn't play a big role in Ghelane's current court case.
[00:58:14]  And this is literally why, these lines right here.
[00:58:17]  Yeah.
[00:58:18]  So we should say that, you know, the Miami Herald has done great reporting on this over the years.
[00:58:23]  And in particular, they found, you know, they got a hold of a bunch of emails between Acosta, Villafania, and Epstein's teams.
[00:58:33]  And that's how we know about a lot of like how closely they were working together on the plea deal and a lot of those negotiations.
[00:58:42]  Apparently, those emails are like very, very scandalous.
[00:58:45]  Like, You know, they say, like, okay, this is only stuff that we can talk on the phone about, or we need to meet in person because we don't want a paper drill.
[00:58:55]  Okay, hey, newsflash, heads up.
[00:58:57]  If you don't want there to be a paper trail, don't mention you don't want there to be a paper trail in the paper trail.
[00:59:04]  Yes.
[00:59:04]  Yeah, that would be that's that's kind of where there's a smoke, there's fire type situation to anyone who might be reading your emails, which there's there's also so Villa Finova is an interesting kind of character in this because from indications, not apparently from the way she actually acted while this was going on publicly, it certainly did not seem like she was trying to build a case.
[00:59:29]  She was stonewalling, she was misleading, she was being, you know, in what I would call pretty cruel to the to the victims and to their lawyers in this.
[00:59:39]  Apparently, these emails show behind the scenes that she actually was trying to build a case and was essentially being ordered by superiors.
[00:59:46]  Miami Herald reported there is a part in this new report that came out that shows Manchell really chewing her out for essentially pushing for harsher, like any for the for the prosecutor's office to actually act against Epstein and to really like hit him with an indictment.
[01:00:12]  But from the way she acted to the victims, that does not seem to be the case publicly.
[01:00:18]  Yeah, and I don't know.
[01:00:20]  It's like very weird because there was like in the emails, apparently there's like one demand that Epstein's team made, which was that like he wanted to be charged in Miami and not Palm Beach because he, it was like a way for it to not be covered in the press and to like get the victims out of the news.
[01:00:36]  He was very conscious of the media attention that this case got in Palm Beach.
[01:00:41]  And then there's an email back from Villa Fanya that says on the Avoid the Press note, I can file the charge in district court in Miami, which will hopefully cut the press coverage significantly.
[01:00:50]  Do you want me to check that out?
[01:00:52]  Which is like very friendly.
[01:00:56]  Yeah, I have actually, I can't remember.
[01:00:59]  I think this was, I think I pled out.
[01:01:01]  I did plead out when I was a kid when I got in some trouble.
[01:01:04]  And I don't recall any emails like that to me.
[01:01:09]  But maybe, you know, maybe it's, I wasn't, I wasn't privy to them.
[01:01:12]  Well, maybe they were actually erased, like Alex Acosta's emails, because get this.
[01:01:17]  All of his emails from the time have, oops, disappeared because of a, quote, technical glitch.
[01:01:24]  And the DOJ sort of says, like, well, it didn't just affect him, although they give absolutely zero indication as to who else they affected.
[01:01:31]  It does not appear to have affected his immediate coworkers.
[01:01:34]  Actually, it affected Hillary Clinton and her emails.
[01:01:37]  Yeah.
[01:01:38]  Apparently, Acosta was storing his emails on a private server with a picture of Anthony Weiner's penis on it.
[01:01:45]  Yeah.
[01:01:45]  In fact, CrowdStrike was, I don't know what I'm doing with that reference.
[01:01:50]  I just like referencing CrowdStrike.
[01:01:52]  It's a cool name.
[01:01:54]  Yeah, fuck those guys.
[01:01:55]  Okay, so finally, it's now 2008, June.
[01:01:59]  Epstein finally appears before a judge in Palm Beach County Court.
[01:02:04]  This is the first time he's appeared before a judge in this entire story.
[01:02:08]  We've gone an hour and Epstein has not appeared before a judge in court.
[01:02:13]  He's sentenced to 18 months in jail.
[01:02:15]  He gets 12 months for the solicitation of a minor prostitute, which also sounds like minor prostitute, like a major prostitute.
[01:02:25]  She's not one of the heavy hitters.
[01:02:26]  Yeah.
[01:02:27]  And then six months for procuring one.
[01:02:32]  And during the sentencing, the judge asks if the prosecutors have notified the victims, and not a single one knew that this was even happening.
[01:02:43]  Well, the prosecutors sort of hem and haw and they do this a lot to the victims themselves too, and make it seem like they had notified them.
[01:02:51]  And there's something really insidious about this.
[01:02:53]  When, you know, this deal had basically been decided on months before Epstein, before this, he actually appears before a judge.
[01:03:00]  But during this whole time, even after the deal had been struck, Villafania and the prosecutors had essentially been making it seem to the victims like there was an intense investigation ongoing.
[01:03:16]  And that's actually where a lot of the scandal around this comes from, because they were lying to the victims, contravening.
[01:03:23]  Well, we'll talk about that in a second, but essentially their rights as victims in a case like this by making it seem like there really was an investigation and charges could be filed.
[01:03:35]  They did not inform them, not even of the existence of the NPA.
[01:03:40]  So in July, a victim actually shows up in court and files an emergency petition related to the government violating the Crime Victims Rights Act, the CBRA.
[01:03:51]  And it's only because they showed up in court to file this petition that we even, or the victims even, everyone even knows that the NPA exists, which is actually like kind of an amazing, ironic twist if you think about it.
[01:04:07]  Because if the feds had not done that, if they had notified the victims, and then the victims probably wouldn't have been able to say anything, right?
[01:04:16]  Because it would have been something, I don't know, I'm sure there was a way to make it so no one could talk.
[01:04:22]  Then literally no one would even know that the non-prosecution agreement like ever existed.
[01:04:28]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:04:29]  I mean, it's a beautiful irony twist, I have to say.
[01:04:32]  I mean, it's convicts.
[01:04:35]  They only find out that he's actually been sent to jail from reading it in the newspaper, and they spend years trying to get the NPA unsealed.
[01:04:44]  Like they were, it's it's just it's really astounding.
[01:04:47]  Um, in 2019, actually, one of Acosta's deputies in his off in his in his office wrote an op-ed for the Miami Herald that says, To those ends, we demanded that Epstein, one, plead guilty to a felony in state court that reflected his true conduct, which no, it did not.
[01:05:04]  Two, agree to incarceration for up to 18 months, three, register as a sex offender, four, pay each known victim between $150,000 and $250,000 through a streamlined mechanism designed to avoid re-victimization.
[01:05:16]  We genuinely felt that these conditions met our two objectives.
[01:05:19]  We told Epstein that unless he and the local authorities accepted our demands, we would indict him and try him on federal charges.
[01:05:26]  They agreed and we did not pursue a federal case.
[01:05:29]  Now, the thing wrong with that is, is Acosta's office's whole line this entire time has been the state of Florida was not charging Epstein with basically anything.
[01:05:39]  They were not going to send him to jail at all.
[01:05:41]  And so the fact that we got him into jail for one month over a year, where, by the way, he was, well, we'll get to his work release in a second.
[01:05:52]  You know, the fact that we were able to get him in jail at all, that's actually a victory because he wasn't going to jail whatsoever.
[01:05:57]  Now, the thing that's wrong with that is that they actually could have charged Epstein with much more.
[01:06:03]  There was nothing, absolutely nothing, nothing forcing them to come to an NPA to create an NPA alongside Epstein's defense team.
[01:06:13]  Absolutely nothing.
[01:06:14]  This is just them essentially taking the path of least possible resistance.
[01:06:19]  I mean, it's one of the lightest sentences that I could possibly imagine.
[01:06:23]  And keep in mind that these people knew that Epstein had an international child sex trafficking ring.
[01:06:31]  You know, they had all the evidence that you've seen.
[01:06:33]  Yeah, so you mentioned the work release thing.
[01:06:36]  We should make a note of that because that is one of the craziest things that Epstein gets out for basically 12 hours a day on work release.
[01:06:45]  What is the Florida Science Foundation?
[01:06:47]  Great name.
[01:06:48]  Yeah, it's a foundation that he set up right before he went in.
[01:06:52]  For this very purpose.
[01:06:55]  The thing is, sex offenders aren't allowed to get work release in Florida.
[01:06:59]  Like, that's not something they're supposed to be.
[01:07:02]  The Palm Beach County sheriff named Rick Bradshaw let him go anyway.
[01:07:05]  That's a great name.
[01:07:06]  By the way, Bradshaw, that's a classic name.
[01:07:10]  Great sheriff's name.
[01:07:11]  Epstein was in a private wing at the, they don't call it a jail there.
[01:07:15]  They call it a stockade where his door was unlocked.
[01:07:19]  He left for 12 hours each day.
[01:07:21]  Bradshaw, of course, later claimed that Epstein was not a sex offender, which Epstein was a sex offender.
[01:07:27]  Very clear.
[01:07:27]  He was in there for only sex charges.
[01:07:30]  And he was on the sex offender registry, but he would get picked up by a private driver six days a week to an office he set up.
[01:07:36]  And check this one out.
[01:07:38]  In the same building as Jack Goldberger's office, meaning the same building as former prosecutor Bruce Reinhardt.
[01:07:47]  Yeah.
[01:07:48]  So even though the NPA said that he had to be in jail for 18 months, and we should say the feds were real sticky on this, they said that was going to be the big thing was that he was going to go to jail for 18 months.
[01:08:01]  So don't worry about it.
[01:08:03]  But anyway, he still got out like five months early.
[01:08:06]  And the thing is, too, Villafania found out he was getting work released.
[01:08:10]  I think it was probably reported in like a local paper.
[01:08:13]  And she emailed his lawyers to be like, hey, he can't be doing this.
[01:08:18]  And his lawyers went above her to the guy that wrote the op-ed that I just read from and complained that this bitch keeps bothering us.
[01:08:30]  Of course, Epstein remained on work release.
[01:08:32]  Jesus.
[01:08:33]  So anyways, all of these dealings are basically in total violation of something Liz mentioned before called the Crime Victims Rights Act.
[01:08:41]  That essentially, that's an act that was put in place to essentially see that victims are represented in some way in like the sentencing and the prosecution of crimes like this.
[01:08:51]  The fact that Epstein's lawyers had sway over the federal prosecutor's decision to notify the victims is absurd.
[01:08:59]  Like it's cut and dry, total violation of this.
[01:09:03]  I mean, they were absolutely cut out almost completely from any part of these proceedings.
[01:09:10]  And it's like, it's actually kind of wild because this case was overturned in 2019 by one of the victims taking it to, I think, a district, one of the district courts.
[01:09:21]  I think it's somewhere in Florida.
[01:09:23]  And then that overturning was overturned earlier this year.
[01:09:27]  Of course, they're appealing that.
[01:09:29]  So we'll see what happens there.
[01:09:31]  Okay, so all of that just took some time.
[01:09:35]  But we had to kind of go through all that because now you guys listening understand what we're talking about when we talk about this DOJ report.
[01:09:44]  Because basically the DOJ investigated what we just went over in order to see if the feds have done anything improper.
[01:09:55]  And let's just say they don't agree with this podcast's official ruling.
[01:10:02]  No, they lay essentially all the responsibility at Acosta's feet.
[01:10:06]  That I know.
[01:10:06]  Again, I have not read the report.
[01:10:07]  I've just read the executive summary and the sort of scant reporting that there is on the 300-page report.
[01:10:14]  But they lay it all at sort of Acosta's desk here.
[01:10:19]  So this is actually from the executive summary.
[01:10:21]  After the NPA was signed, Acosta elected to defer to the state attorney the decision whether to notify victims about the state's plea hearing pursuant to the state's own victims' rights requirement.
[01:10:32]  Although Acosta's decision was within his authority and did not constitute professional misconduct, OPR concludes that Acosta exercised poor judgment when he failed to make certain that the state intended to and would notify victims identified through the federal investigation about the state plea hearing.
[01:10:49]  So what they're saying is, is like he asked the states like, you know, or like you guys make the decision whether to notify these chicks.
[01:10:57]  Like it's not really my problem.
[01:10:58]  So he just like totally wiped it off his own plate, knowing that, considering how much the state had dragged their feet prior, that they would not do this.
[01:11:06]  His decision let the left of victims uninformed about an important proceeding that resolved at the federal investigation, an investigation which had the USAO, which the USAO had communicated with victims for months.
[01:11:18]  It also ultimately created the misimpression, the misimpression, that the department intentionally sought to silence the victims.
[01:11:25]  Acosta failed to ensure that victims were made aware of a court proceeding that was related to their own cases, and thus he failed to ensure that victims were treated with forthrightness and dignity.

=== Report Also: Conduct Evaluated (06:08) ===

[01:11:38]  Yeah, so the other half of what the DOJ looked into was basically how, like, how the MPA, like if there was anything improper in how the MPA came into fruition.
[01:11:51]  And there they find that they had done nothing wrong.
[01:11:58]  But to your point about them laying it on Acosta's feet, like I like this, this little sentence I found really interesting.
[01:12:05]  They write, OPR evaluated the conduct of each subject.
[01:12:09]  That means they're talking about a couple key people in Acosta's office, the conduct of each subject, and considered his or her individual role in various decisions and events.
[01:12:21]  Acosta, however, made the pivotal decision to resolve the federal investigation of Epstein through a state-based plea and either developed or approved the terms of the initial offer to the defense that set the beginning point for the subsequent negotiations that led to the MPA.
[01:12:42]  So it's interesting because they're basically saying, well, he either came up with it or he signed off on it, or, you know, we're not sure which, but it's all, you know, it's all him to blame.
[01:12:53]  No one above him, no one below him.
[01:12:55]  And they sort of imply that there was nothing technically improper with the meeting he had with Lefkowitz at the Marriott either.
[01:13:03]  Yeah, that's really funny.
[01:13:04]  They basically say, like, oh, we couldn't find anything that points to the Marriott meeting being, you know, not above board.
[01:13:15]  Well, that's the thing is with a lot of this, they're essentially saying, well, he did a bad job, but none of it was technically out of regulations for the Department of Justice, which could very well be true.
[01:13:25]  I mean, all of this stuff could technically be legal, even if it implies a certain high level of corruption, if that makes any sense.
[01:13:34]  The report also, this is from the Miami Herald.
[01:13:37]  They say the report also contains an intriguing mention of former president Bill Clinton.
[01:13:43]  Now, his friendship with Epstein might have affected the desire to prosecute him in the first place.
[01:13:49]  You also paint celebrity attorney Alan Dershowitz in unflattering terms.
[01:13:56]  Yeah, at the end of the DOJ executive summary, they basically lay out what the organization of the report is in all these different little chapters.
[01:14:05]  And it seems like the meat of this thing is in chapter two, where it's basically an extensive, extensive account of all of the events that we just laid out, but like memorandums and like detailed accounts of what actually occurred and like the negotiations between the defense and the prosecutors.
[01:14:28]  And I'm very interested in that.
[01:14:30]  You mentioned Bill Clinton.
[01:14:32]  And of course, we mentioned at least Krishner had, you know, some incentive to ingratiate himself with the Clintons because he was seeking a, I think, a federal judge, like, or like, you know, to be appointed a federal judge, I think, as from what I understood.
[01:14:54]  But, you know, like, Acosta is also a career careerist, right?
[01:15:00]  And, you know, no one wants to cross Bill Clinton.
[01:15:04]  Yeah, I mean, it's, it's interesting as some of the reporting I read on this sort of said that when Epstein was going up against the Democratic Party Apparatchik, he hired lawyers that were sort of very connected to the Democrats.
[01:15:18]  And when he was going up against Republican Apparatchik, Acosta, he hired lawyers that would, you know, sort of shock and awe a Republican who essentially wanted the same thing as Krisher.
[01:15:28]  Yeah.
[01:15:30]  Well, I wonder if we're ever going to see this report.
[01:15:34]  Here's the thing.
[01:15:35]  If you work for Ben Sass, or if you, you know what, if you just work anywhere in Congress, I don't care if you're a fucking janitor, baby.
[01:15:43]  You need to get me this report.
[01:15:45]  I will give you $500 for it.
[01:15:49]  I just had a funny idea.
[01:15:51]  What if his name is actually pronounced, like technically, it's supposed to be Sassy?
[01:15:56]  Ben Sassy?
[01:15:57]  Yeah.
[01:15:57]  It's Ben Sashet.
[01:15:59]  But he couldn't go by that because no one would take him seriously.
[01:16:02]  I'm going to call him that finale.
[01:16:03]  It's not going to be Sassy as it is.
[01:16:06]  Yeah, Ben Sassy.
[01:16:08]  I feel like you can just be a senator if you're from Nebraska.
[01:16:11]  It's not hard.
[01:16:12]  It's a lot of people.
[01:16:13]  Yeah.
[01:16:14]  I bet I could get elected senator.
[01:16:16]  I mean, in Nebraska?
[01:16:17]  Yeah, whatever.
[01:16:18]  No problem.
[01:16:19]  I like Nebraska.
[01:16:21]  Have you been there?
[01:16:22]  I've been to Omaha.
[01:16:23]  No, I never have.
[01:16:24]  That's where I was.
[01:16:25]  One of the few states I had never you were a clown in Omaha?
[01:16:28]  Yeah.
[01:16:29]  Jesus Christ, it's like a Bob Dylan song.
[01:16:33]  I know, it's very romantic, no?
[01:16:35]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:16:51]  That was like a nice little classic episode.
[01:16:54]  Yeah, ultra classic.
[01:16:56]  In fact, ultra-light.
[01:16:58]  Yeah, no, I thought that was, it was nice to kind of be back.
[01:17:00]  I'll say the thing that really confuses me about the Epstein stuff, or the thing that has like the potential to confuse me the most, is court stuff.
[01:17:07]  Yeah.
[01:17:08]  Just because there's like a lot of words I don't know.
[01:17:11]  Yeah.
[01:17:12]  It's confusing about like the difference between the state and the federal, like, you know, who's doing what and who's calling who and, you know, who's what, what's what, what's who.
[01:17:25]  Interplay between the two here, I think, is just so like, I guess, unusual.
[01:17:30]  Or like, it really, you don't encounter it as much, or at least I don't encounter it as much in rewrite, the stuff that I read about.
[01:17:37]  And so when I first read about this, I got it.
[01:17:40]  But now this, this is like in doing the research for this episode, I think I got a lot more context where it makes a lot more sense.

=== Wall Keep Confusion (02:22) ===

[01:17:46]  And boy, these guys really did fuck up.
[01:17:49]  Yeah.
[01:17:50]  But the good news is, is that, you know, like I've said before, laws are fake.
[01:17:57]  And so, you know, take heart.
[01:17:58]  You probably can't get prosecuted for anything.
[01:18:01]  I don't think that's very good legal advice.
[01:18:04]  This is not legal advice.
[01:18:05]  This is life advice.
[01:18:06]  Fake legal advice because it's fake.
[01:18:08]  There's no such thing as prison.
[01:18:09]  Prison's a thing that they use to scare you with.
[01:18:12]  But the thing is, there aren't actually prisons in America.
[01:18:14]  It's like a boogeyman that the government came up with to keep you from doing crimes.
[01:18:19]  If you do commit a crime and the police catch you, they actually send you on vacation because they're like, that's badass that you're a criminal.
[01:18:26]  It's really just a prison of the mind.
[01:18:30]  Whole country's a prison.
[01:18:32]  You know, it's crazy.
[01:18:33]  People think Trump's building a wall to keep people out, but the way I think of it, the wall is to keep us in.
[01:18:44]  That would have been a good...
[01:18:46]  What if Hillary said that when she was running against Trump?
[01:18:50]  She never says something that fucking cool.
[01:18:51]  If she was like, oh, yeah, you think it's for immigrants?
[01:18:54]  No, it's to keep you in.
[01:18:55]  She probably could have flipped some of the militia guys.
[01:18:58]  Oh, yeah, absolutely.
[01:19:00]  She should have just said that Donald Trump's Jewish.
[01:19:03]  That was my whole thing.
[01:19:05]  But don't get me started on that.
[01:19:07]  That was, because remember when, remember when she gave the deplorable speech?
[01:19:12]  Like, she said the alt-right was taking over the Republican Party, which turns out she was wrong about.
[01:19:16]  Looks like it's just kind of queuing on people that did that.
[01:19:20]  But she should have just tried to split the Trump, because you know how Trump would be like, you know, like black people, like, what have the Democrats ever done for you?
[01:19:28]  You know, fair question.
[01:19:29]  You know, the implication that he will do something, which is not quite sure I'm with him on that.
[01:19:35]  But she should have done the same thing and been like, you know what?
[01:19:38]  Like, Trump's not even actually white.
[01:19:45]  Oh, my God.
[01:19:47]  All right.
[01:19:47]  On that note, you know, in 20 years we're going to be talking about Hillary and Trump.
[01:19:51]  Yeah, I don't want to think about him ever again.
[01:19:53]  I know, but you're going to.
[01:19:55]  Forever and ever and ever until we all blow our brains out.
[01:20:00]  Podcaster's curse.
[01:20:02]  I'm Liz.
[01:20:04]  My name is Brace.
[01:20:04]  We are joined by producer Young Chomsky.
[01:20:07]  And we will see you next time.