True Anon Truth Feed - Episode 112: I Wouldn't Describe a Sex Toy Pt. 1
Aired: 2020-10-28
Duration: 58:22


=== Hunter Biden Foot Job Videos (02:58) ===

[00:00:02]  It's your fucking idiot host, Bryce Belden, here, and I have a proposition for you.
[00:00:09]  If you want to, John Lennon-style, fucking shoot your favorite male podcast host on November 3rd, that is Tuesday, November 3rd, Election Day, and you live in the Bay Area.
[00:00:21]  I need you to come help volunteer for the Dean Preston for supervisor campaign.
[00:00:25]  We got shit to do all fucking day.
[00:00:27]  We need a ton of fucking people, a lot of money up against them, millions and millions of dollars from the Pritzkers, people like that.
[00:00:33]  Don't even fucking live in the city.
[00:00:35]  Anyways, we need your help.
[00:00:37]  I am going to include a link down in the description, or you can go to votean.com.
[00:00:41]  But the other link I'm going to put is a little easier to use.
[00:00:44]  Anyways, do that, and you can fucking kill me.
[00:00:49]  So, listeners, I want to clear some stuff up.
[00:00:53]  I know a lot of you have probably seen the news that my hard drive I gave to our producer, and our producer forgot who gave it to him, and he found a hard drive in his house, and he did give it to the FBI.
[00:01:10]  And the FBI, for some reason, gave it to Rudy Giuliani, and Rudy Giuliani, for some reason, gave it to the Chinese government in exile that Steve Bannon started along with some QAnon people.
[00:01:21]  And because of that, you know, some pictures got out.
[00:01:26]  And I'm not ashamed to it.
[00:01:29]  I know I've talked a lot about the show on being like, you know, on being a good person, on being honorable, on not lying to people.
[00:01:36]  And yeah, I lied.
[00:01:38]  I can't do more than eight push-ups.
[00:01:40]  I've said a bunch of times in the show, I can do 500 push-ups, 600 push-ups, 700 push-ups.
[00:01:45]  I can do like seven.
[00:01:47]  I can do seven.
[00:01:48]  And so I also, I also, there's a video of me getting a foot job.
[00:01:54]  Okay.
[00:01:55]  Yeah.
[00:01:56]  Did everyone, does everyone watch, did you think everyone's watched it or if they're ignoring it?
[00:02:02]  I think very few people have watched it.
[00:02:04]  That's what my sense is, is that it's all over the like chance.
[00:02:08]  Yes.
[00:02:09]  But it's like not, it's not even on Twitter.
[00:02:12]  Yeah.
[00:02:12]  Yeah.
[00:02:13]  Oh, it got, it blocked me.
[00:02:14]  It blocked me.
[00:02:15]  So for those of you who don't know what we're talking about, I'm referencing the Hunter Biden foot job videos released by the Chinese government in exile.
[00:02:20]  I'm not watching these trolls, by the way.
[00:02:23]  I did send it to you and you did tell me you watched it for a sec.
[00:02:25]  No, I didn't.
[00:02:27]  You're such a liar.
[00:02:30]  It is.
[00:02:31]  I thought I was like, okay, like I'm watching a video of like, I think he's getting a blowjob.
[00:02:35]  And then, because it's all blurred out.
[00:02:36]  And then I looked closer.
[00:02:38]  I'm like, what head looks like that?
[00:02:40]  Oh, it's a foot.
[00:02:42]  And he's smoking crack.
[00:02:45]  And I kind of jumped around the video.
[00:02:47]  There's a bunch of other photos, like the whole tranche.
[00:02:49]  It's a real tranche.
[00:02:50]  Tranche, isn't it?
[00:02:52]  Yeah.
[00:02:53]  And before we started recording, I mentioned to Liz the size of Hunter Biden's sex.
[00:03:00]  And she's like, how do you know that?

=== Men's Measurement Gag (02:57) ===

[00:03:01]  And I'm like, oh, it's because there's several pictures of him measuring it that he put out.
[00:03:06]  Is that a thing?
[00:03:07]  Is that like a thing that people do on the regular?
[00:03:11]  Yeah.
[00:03:11]  I mean, I do like a coat can thing, like three or four of those.
[00:03:16]  All right.
[00:03:16]  But yeah.
[00:03:17]  No, I mean, I did it a long time ago, and I don't think I've done it in many years.
[00:03:22]  I don't think so.
[00:03:23]  I always thought this was like a gag.
[00:03:24]  I didn't realize that like, like every guy has done this.
[00:03:28]  100%.
[00:03:28]  Yeah.
[00:03:29]  100% every guy has done this.
[00:03:31]  Well, there's some countries where they don't use measurements, like anarchist zones and stuff like that.
[00:03:35]  I know in the chat.
[00:03:36]  Oh, yeah.
[00:03:37]  Wait, remember there was that take that was like, actually the U.S. system is like colonialist or something.
[00:03:46]  Or was it the metric system?
[00:03:48]  I can't remember.
[00:03:48]  I think it was.
[00:03:49]  Maybe it was anti-measurement systems where it was anti-measurement in general.
[00:03:56]  There was some, let's say, left-winger who is in close touch with the workers' movement has decided that the most pressing issue is that we have to abolish measurements.
[00:04:04]  But you know what?
[00:04:05]  Honestly, after seeing this Hunter thing, kind of agree with them.
[00:04:09]  Yeah, I bet there's like about 80% of men who you could get on your side for that one.
[00:04:14]  Oh, yeah, absolutely.
[00:04:15]  Yeah.
[00:04:15]  No, I could lead them.
[00:04:18]  But the thing is, all you have to do is just be like, this never happens.
[00:04:25]  And they're like, what never happens?
[00:04:26]  You haven't done anything.
[00:04:27]  And you're like, no, this never, I swear to God, this never happened.
[00:04:30]  Like, you still have your, I just, we're at a bar.
[00:04:32]  This never happens.
[00:04:33]  I love how your whole move with women is just like, confuse them.
[00:04:38]  Yeah.
[00:04:39]  Oh, no.
[00:04:39]  It's, it's, it's shocking off.
[00:04:41]  You got to give them the dazzle where you like, you come out with them with so many contradictory and like absurd things that they aren't.
[00:04:50]  They are like, this, like, he keeps saying his dick's fucked up and grotesque.
[00:04:54]  Is it?
[00:04:55]  Like, would he say that if it was true?
[00:04:57]  Or like, and like, he's like, he's saying that he's, like, all, you just have to say so many insane things that they're like, well, nothing makes sense.
[00:05:06]  And this guy seems to kind of like be able to navigate it.
[00:05:09]  So I got to stick with him.
[00:05:10]  It's like the shock doctrine for relationships.
[00:05:12]  Absolutely.
[00:05:13]  Yeah.
[00:05:14]  All of that stuff, every single like way that the U.S. Empire has pillaged the third world and the second world and certain parts of Europe like that are pretty much second world, like, you know, Eastern Europe.
[00:05:26]  All of those methods are applicable to girls.
[00:05:53]  Guy walks into a bar, really handsome guy.
[00:05:56]  He's like, hey, my name is Bryce Belden.

=== Unsealed Documents Revealed (10:35) ===

[00:05:58]  This is Truanon.
[00:06:00]  The bartender, no, the bartender, check this out, Liz.
[00:06:02]  The bartender just finished being like Ted Kennedy's intern or whatever, one of those guys, and is about to start her promising career as a congresswoman.
[00:06:11]  And her name is AOC.
[00:06:15]  No, her name is.
[00:06:17]  Oh, oh, I get it.
[00:06:18]  Oh.
[00:06:18]  Yeah.
[00:06:19]  Liz, hello.
[00:06:21]  Uh-huh.
[00:06:22]  And check this out.
[00:06:23]  Check this out.
[00:06:23]  The doorman comes up and he's like, Brace, you got it.
[00:06:26]  We don't fucking allow no podcasters.
[00:06:28]  Get the fuck out of here.
[00:06:29]  And Liz, you go and represent me in Congress.
[00:06:34]  And his name is.
[00:06:35]  Young Chomsky.
[00:06:37]  That's right, bitch.
[00:06:38]  This is True Anon.
[00:06:40]  That was so stupid.
[00:06:43]  But you know what?
[00:06:44]  Points for being creative.
[00:06:46]  Yes.
[00:06:47]  Yeah.
[00:06:47]  Yeah.
[00:06:48]  I am.
[00:06:48]  I am.
[00:06:49]  And also, that's right.
[00:06:50]  You heard, ladies and gentlemen, we have Young Chomsky on the ones and twos.
[00:06:55]  Not sure what those are, but he is on the microphone.
[00:06:57]  He is joining us for this very special episode where we actually don't talk about Ghelane Maxwell at all.
[00:07:06]  Yeah, we need him and his storied theater skills for a little bit of a teleplay that we're going to be doing later on in the show.
[00:07:16]  That's right.
[00:07:16]  We wrote a musical about Jeffrey Epstein's death, which we are, we are, we are being performed about a year ago.
[00:07:27]  Yes, yeah.
[00:07:28]  It is being produced in conjunction with Spike TV and Spiked the magazine, weirdly enough.
[00:07:35]  Yes, also received funding, unfortunately, from Richard Spencer.
[00:07:38]  It's a grant thing.
[00:07:40]  We had no say in it.
[00:07:42]  And Megan the Stallion.
[00:07:49]  That would be a very weird crossover.
[00:07:51]  Yes, yes, it would.
[00:07:53]  Isn't that what?
[00:07:54]  Yeah.
[00:07:55]  Anyway, hello, everyone.
[00:07:57]  Welcome.
[00:07:57]  Hello.
[00:07:58]  It's Truan.
[00:08:00]  In case you were confused, but you're probably not because, well, you clicked play.
[00:08:07]  Also, I said it like five or six times.
[00:08:09]  All right, whatever.
[00:08:10]  You know, I'm used to doing it, so I just, I don't listen to you when you talk.
[00:08:14]  Oh, wow.
[00:08:14]  You're the first one in the world to say that.
[00:08:17]  Just psych, psych.
[00:08:20]  I am so, I am juiced, baby.
[00:08:23]  Yeah.
[00:08:23]  Okay.
[00:08:24]  So in case our listeners don't know, there was a big release in the Ghillain Maxwell case, a 400 and what is it, 62 page deposition.
[00:08:37]  65, I believe.
[00:08:39]  465, excuse me, was unsealed.
[00:08:44]  No thanks to Ms. Maxwell and her lawyers.
[00:08:46]  They lost.
[00:08:49]  And got to say, it's quite a read.
[00:08:53]  Yeah, yeah, it definitely, I mean, it was, I've been looking forward to this for a while.
[00:08:59]  And like, I think we've mentioned this on the show a bunch.
[00:09:02]  There exists a lot of documentation from the Ghelane, the Maxwell versus Virginia Jeffrey case in 2016.
[00:09:10]  It was a civil suit that Virginia filed against Ghelane.
[00:09:13]  She actually won it in 2017 for an undisclosed amount of money, which, you know, great for her.
[00:09:19]  But the bad thing is, is that Ghelane was basically successful for quite a while in getting a lot of the files related to it sealed, essentially.
[00:09:28]  And there has been a pretty extensive legal fight since around 2018 when the Miami Herald actually, I believe, filed to get these documents unsealed.
[00:09:38]  And finally, they've been unsealed.
[00:09:41]  Ghelane's lawyers have been trying to deny it.
[00:09:42]  And there's always, there's been, even since, you know, this has been reported on since Epstein was arrested, there have been quite a few anonymous men who have been very energetic in their efforts to keep these documents sealed.
[00:09:56]  Yeah.
[00:09:57]  So this is, it seems like this is just the beginning of what will be a kind of rollout of a lot of unsealed documents as the months go on.
[00:10:06]  But you're, you, you know, you already said this, but I want to like make clear that this is a deposition and related or related to the Virginia Jeffrey case.
[00:10:15]  So this doesn't actually have to do with her criminal case, but obviously there's stuff in here that pertains to the criminal case as well.
[00:10:26]  It's a lot different from, you know, you might remember that we've gone over the Jeffrey Epstein depositions on this show.
[00:10:33]  And Epstein's deposition, although there are some similarities, which we'll probably get to as we go along with this, but he basically pleads the fifth and some more of those fucking things in answer to every question.
[00:10:44]  Whereas Ghelane in this, you know, it's a civil case.
[00:10:48]  And so she talks and I mean, she basically doesn't say much for a lot of it, but she says some pretty interesting stuff here.
[00:10:56]  This actually is not the only transcript, or excuse me, this is not the only deposition.
[00:11:01]  So apparently there are two more that are slated for release.
[00:11:04]  They are Jane's Doe or Jane Doe's?
[00:11:07]  Jane Doe.
[00:11:08]  Jane, well, there's two of them.
[00:11:10]  Yeah, Jane Doe one and Jane Doe two.
[00:11:12]  Okay, well, Jane Doe, Uno and Does, that's a little Latin flavor on that for you.
[00:11:21]  Those are going to be rolled out in the uh sometime next month.
[00:11:25]  Uh, and uh, there's actually another Ghillain deposition, too.
[00:11:29]  This is from uh, this is from David Boyce, which fuck that guy, but this is from his uh, his he gave a little interview to the Miami Herald about this.
[00:11:36]  He says, What you see and what was released is only the beginning of revelations about the scope and scale of the Epstein-Maxwell trafficking ring.
[00:11:44]  We are finally seeing how it operated, a bit of who was involved beyond what's publicly known.
[00:11:48]  This is only a small part of the evidence that was accumulated during our civil case.
[00:11:52]  And he also says that there is another transcript that is much more uh informative coming too.
[00:11:59]  Yeah, so okay, so let's just some top-level um takeaways because we both did read the entirety of this deposition.
[00:12:08]  Um, one, not a lot of new information in here.
[00:12:13]  No, no, we, we, it's it's, I mean, I'm sure what will surprise no one, but she does not say that like Bill Clinton ate a baby, right?
[00:12:23]  Um, well, she actually does say that, but it looks like she's kidding.
[00:12:28]  Um, my big takeaway from this was: I mean, I think you get a real shade on the character of Ms. Ghillain Maxwell.
[00:12:38]  She is a pro.
[00:12:40]  Oh, yeah, she's great.
[00:12:42]  She's a pros pro.
[00:12:43]  I mean, this bitch knows how to fucking dodge a question.
[00:12:47]  I'll tell you that.
[00:12:48]  She knows her way around the law.
[00:12:50]  It's so what astounds me about these things is that, like, this also struck me about the Epstein deposition is that they are, they are just like so adept at giving the same answer over and over and over and over again and rewording it slightly differently.
[00:13:06]  Uh, Ghillain has a few stock ones, but she says, I don't recall about 66 times, and she says, I don't recollect around 42 times.
[00:13:14]  And that is over a hundred times of saying, I don't fucking remember.
[00:13:17]  And that seems to be a really good thing.
[00:13:19]  I didn't know you could do this.
[00:13:21]  I mean, I've never been involved in civil litigation, but can you just be like, Yeah, I don't remember?
[00:13:25]  Well, I mean, it's a deposition.
[00:13:27]  Yeah.
[00:13:27]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:13:28]  I mean, it's just, yeah, I guess that's true.
[00:13:30]  But it, it, it, uh, I, I, it's, it's an interesting insight, I think, into her legal.
[00:13:35]  So that kind of brings in the point I want to make on this: is, you know, Galena Maxwell has an upcoming court case next year.
[00:13:42]  It's going to be, it's going to start maybe a little less than a year from now.
[00:13:45]  And I have been very interested in seeing what her legal strategy might be for that.
[00:13:50]  Yeah.
[00:13:52]  And, you know, like I've said before on the show, is like you think Ghelane's going to be like really smart because, you know, she's rich, she went to Oxford, she's always hung out with these hoity-toity people, but she doesn't seem as smart as, or she doesn't actually act as smart as one might think she is in relation to court cases.
[00:14:09]  And so I think her strategy is probably just going to be like, I don't fucking know.
[00:14:14]  Yeah, I mean, you do get a little glimpse, like you say.
[00:14:17]  And I think we flagged a couple of times, but she's very careful about which questions she answers and which she doesn't.
[00:14:27]  And the way in which she dodges the question.
[00:14:29]  Like it isn't always, I don't remember, but there's a lot of times where she's very, she's very specific and says, oh, well, actually, I can't.
[00:14:39]  You know, I can't say what Jeffrey thought or I can't say what happened when I wasn't there.
[00:14:45]  Like, so she's very, very well coached.
[00:14:47]  I was, you know, like I said, pros pro, very impressed.
[00:14:51]  I think some people, you know, if you do want to read this, which, you know, I think you guys should, you know, a lot of good takeaways here if you ever find yourself, you know, in front of, you know, the coppers or a lawyer.
[00:15:06]  Yeah.
[00:15:07]  Another little interesting thing from this was that we know now, although we've kind of known this for a while, that all of Ghelane, in fact, all of Epstein's inner circles legal bills were paid by Epstein himself.
[00:15:21]  We know that specifically through a lawsuit that Ghelane filed against Epstein's estate after he died in the Virgin Islands, seeking some a little bit of fucking money.
[00:15:31]  And she says very, very plainly in that, that her legal bills, Epstein had promised to pay all of her legal bills and that she was still an employee of his, blah, blah, blah.
[00:15:41]  In this deposition, though, she says, I don't know if I copied this part, but she says that Epstein actually wasn't involved in this.
[00:15:48]  And she really downplays her relationship with Epstein a lot.
[00:15:51]  But we'll get to that later.
[00:15:53]  Yeah.
[00:15:53]  So, I mean, I did say at the top of this, well, just five minutes ago, that there weren't a lot of new revelations, but actually there are some really like interesting little details in here.
[00:16:06]  And so, as I mentioned, we're going to go through and read some bits.
[00:16:10]  But before we do that, we should mention that there's some pretty sloppy redactions in here, which I was actually pretty surprised.
[00:16:20]  Usually they're pretty detailed about and very careful about what they redact and making sure that it's very, that it's pretty difficult to guess who the redaction is.

=== Al Gore Redactions (02:57) ===

[00:16:34]  But they did not do a good job.
[00:16:37]  And actually, there was an article up at Slate by Josh Levin, Aaron Mack, and Jonathan L. Fisher, where, I mean, I mean, they published this like, I don't know, four hours after the thing went live, where they very easily track down pretty much all of the redactions just by looking at the index.
[00:17:00]  Yes.
[00:17:01]  Yeah, the thing is, like, you can see, so like with Bill Clinton is probably the most obvious example.
[00:17:07]  It's just his name is in the index blacked out just like where Clinton would be, like, right after clients.
[00:17:14]  In between clients and color.
[00:17:17]  Exactly.
[00:17:17]  And you can really use, and I believe there's actually quite a few mentions of Billy C.'s name.
[00:17:24]  But it's, you know, there's no like astonishing new people mentioned in here, just sort of the usual suspects.
[00:17:31]  And believe me, they're all pretty much present here.
[00:17:35]  I mean, we have Alfredo Rodriguez, his former houseman who died of somehow, well, of cancer, but don't get me started on that.
[00:17:45]  We got Leslie Wexner, we got Chris Tucker, we got Marvin Minsky, we got fucking Al Gore, although Al Gore technically, all right, he's not actually involved in this.
[00:17:54]  Jean-Luc Brunel.
[00:17:55]  I don't know if I believe that.
[00:17:58]  I don't know.
[00:17:58]  I feel with the Al Gore thing, so that stems from some Ghelane Maxwell, or excuse me, from Virginia Jeffries' sort of semi-memoir she wrote.
[00:18:07]  And I think she just literally thought he was a different guy or like thought a different guy.
[00:18:11]  I don't know.
[00:18:11]  I think Al Gore's a freak.
[00:18:14]  Baby, are we?
[00:18:16]  Hold on.
[00:18:17]  We are not litigating whether Al Gore is a fucking freak or not.
[00:18:21]  You will not find me on the wrong side.
[00:18:22]  And so then, you know, he could be involved.
[00:18:26]  I'll say he's a super freak.
[00:18:28]  And he's guilty.
[00:18:29]  Here's the thing with all these guys.
[00:18:31]  He's guilty.
[00:18:32]  Yeah.
[00:18:34]  It doesn't matter of what.
[00:18:35]  Well, it does.
[00:18:37]  Did he really need an Oscar?
[00:18:38]  What was that about?
[00:18:41]  I think the same forces gave him the Oscar that perhaps gave the White Helmets one.
[00:18:48]  I've forgotten who I was.
[00:18:48]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:18:49]  You know, we have to say, too, I do want to mention Chris Tucker is in this.
[00:18:53]  And, you know, if you are a longtime listener of the podcast, you know, that's the person we like to bring up every so often.
[00:19:01]  I will say also, I received some help on understanding some of the sort of legal strategies that work here and some of the lawyerly terms from Friends of the Pod at A-Lab.
[00:19:13]  It's a different podcast.
[00:19:15]  That's Allah Liker on Twitter and Wyatt Privilege.
[00:19:19]  Yeah, A-Lab.
[00:19:20]  All lawyers are bastards.
[00:19:21]  Exactly.
[00:19:22]  I don't think all are.
[00:19:23]  I just think the non-Jewish ones are.
[00:19:25]  I just think they are, those two.
[00:19:27]  The rest are fine.
[00:19:29]  What's the difference between a lawyer and a shark?

=== Why Ghelane Missed Epstein (15:44) ===

[00:19:32]  What?
[00:19:33]  Ooh, actually, I was going to say something really anti-Smash.
[00:19:36]  I was not going to.
[00:19:39]  It's like I never see the sharks in Temple.
[00:19:42]  Oh my god, okay.
[00:19:54]  I think we should get the show on the road.
[00:19:57]  So without further ado, I don't know how I was going to do that.
[00:20:05]  Well, usually someone says, so like, if I was going to do that, I'd be like, without further ado, let's get right into it.
[00:20:12]  But that's like a sound.
[00:20:12]  But that doesn't sound right.
[00:20:14]  I kind of wanted to, like, in my head, we were going to have like velvet curtains open.
[00:20:19]  Yeah.
[00:20:19]  You know, and it's like a theater production.
[00:20:24]  That works.
[00:20:25]  Like a procession.
[00:20:27]  All right, so back to it.
[00:20:29]  Without further ado, again, this is Truanum presents the United States District Court, Southern District of New York, Virginia L. Jeffrey plaintiff against Gillane Maxwell,
[00:20:45]  defendants, videotaped deposition of Gillane Maxwell taken pursuant to subpoena, held at the law offices of Voyce, Schiller, and Flexner, April 22nd, 2016, 9.04 a.m.
[00:21:03]  Damn, they got an early start on this.
[00:21:05]  Yeah, that's good.
[00:21:06]  Nine to five, baby.
[00:21:09]  So before we get into this, we should say that we are all going to be playing some different characters.
[00:21:16]  Myself, I will be voicing the part of Gillane Maxwell.
[00:21:20]  Be still, my quaking heart.
[00:21:22]  Oh my God.
[00:21:23]  I, that is the famed thespian, the great orator, Grace Belden, shall be playing the part of Miss Macaulay, who is a lawyer for Virginia Jeffrey.
[00:21:41]  I shall be much like a Hamilton, where they had people of color play, in fact, people of white color who were very racist.
[00:21:50]  I will be playing a woman lawyer.
[00:21:55]  And I'm very excited to be here.
[00:22:00]  And I will be playing the role of Mr. Pagliuka, the great clown himself.
[00:22:08]  That is to say, the lawyer for Miss Gillain Maxwell.
[00:22:12]  Look at this.
[00:22:13]  I'm getting really into this.
[00:22:14]  Yeah, I like it.
[00:22:15]  good so i also uh wait who's cute no Liz!
[00:22:22]  Q.
[00:22:22]  That just means Q as in question.
[00:22:26]  That's what Q stands for?
[00:22:28]  Yeah, well, in this deposition.
[00:22:30]  Okay.
[00:22:31]  Oh, so that's me.
[00:22:32]  Okay.
[00:22:32]  So, all right, check this out.
[00:22:33]  So at this point, to set the scene, everybody is in the room.
[00:22:37]  All the lawyers for both firms are in the room because you not only have Miss McCauley and the other lawyer for Boys, Schiller, etc., you also have Bradley Edwards, who is the sort of personal lawyer for Virginia Jeffrey, who's written a really good book on the case and who has done a lot of like, he's just a local lawyer in Florida who's gotten really involved in this case.
[00:22:59]  I get, yeah, yeah, he's, I tend to like this guy.
[00:23:04]  But at this point, it's the beginning of the deposition, everybody's in the room.
[00:23:07]  Oh, wait, I'm going to play Edwards in this, right?
[00:23:09]  Yes, yeah, yeah.
[00:23:11]  The role of Bradley Edwards will be played by Miss Liz Franzac.
[00:23:17]  When did you first recruit a female to work for Mr. Epstein?
[00:23:21]  I object to the form and foundation of the question.
[00:23:24]  I believe this is confidential information.
[00:23:26]  I ask anyone who is not admitted in this case, be excused from the room, please.
[00:23:31]  So the response to that question would...
[00:23:33]  The subject matter of this question is confidential, and I'm designating it as confidential.
[00:23:40]  I just want to make that clear for the record.
[00:23:43]  So we don't delay the deposition.
[00:23:44]  I will step out of the room, but I think it's important to lay...
[00:23:47]  Maybe we should get the judge on the phone and talk about it.
[00:23:50]  The record will be short.
[00:23:52]  This is the precise reason why Miss Jeffrey wants me in this case, and I'm unable to effectively represent her at this time because I'm unable to have access to the confidential information, which includes, apparently, the entire deposition of Miss Maxwell.
[00:24:05]  But for the sake of not further delaying this, I will be outside the room.
[00:24:09]  So what we're seeing here is basically Ghelane Maxwell's lawyers immediately start gumming up the work and kicking Bradley Edwards right out of the room.
[00:24:17]  Yeah.
[00:24:18]  I mean, I have to say he didn't really put up a big fight.
[00:24:22]  I mean, it's hard for me to really understand what the fuck, like, you know, like how they can actually do that.
[00:24:28]  But it seems like he understands what their legal strategy would be here.
[00:24:32]  And some of these lawyer consultants I talked to were like, yeah, I mean, it's pretty obvious that their whole thing is basically just to delay, delay, delay, delay, make it as annoying as possible for everyone.
[00:24:43]  Which apparently they say is not that great of a legal strategy because when you read it in the deposition, it comes off as fucking psycho.
[00:24:49]  Yeah, well, yeah.
[00:24:50]  And it kind of does in this deposition.
[00:24:53]  So, Ghelane, let's just start with the real first question here.
[00:24:58]  And we can really get a taste of what Ghelane's strategy will be for this entire interview.
[00:25:05]  So to get back into my role.
[00:25:08]  So Miss Maxwell, when did you first recruit a female to work for Mr. Epstein?
[00:25:12]  Again, I object to the form and foundation of the question.
[00:25:16]  You can answer the question.
[00:25:18]  First of all, can you please clarify the question?
[00:25:20]  I don't understand what you mean by female.
[00:25:23]  I don't understand what you mean by recruit.
[00:25:26]  Please be more clear and specific about what you are suggesting.
[00:25:32]  Are you a female?
[00:25:34]  Is that the sex that you are?
[00:25:36]  I am a female.
[00:25:38]  That's what I'm referring to, a female, and I'm asking you when you first, the very first time, you recruited a female to work for Mr. Epstein.
[00:25:47]  Again, I don't understand what female.
[00:25:49]  I am a 54-year-old woman.
[00:25:52]  I'm not making it age.
[00:25:54]  Any age of a female that you recruited to work for Mr. Epstein.
[00:25:58]  Again, I was somebody who hired a number of people to work for Mr. Epstein, and hiring is one of my functions.
[00:26:06]  That's the mugsnet defense, right?
[00:26:08]  Exactly, yeah.
[00:26:08]  She's just like, well, actually, I'm an adult human female.
[00:26:14]  Yeah, it's an incredibly ballsy, no pun intended, strategy to immediately just be like, what's a woman?
[00:26:23]  Yeah, I love it, actually.
[00:26:25]  I'm not going to lie.
[00:26:26]  Like, I think it's pretty good.
[00:26:28]  And as we kind of mentioned at the top of the show, this is her strategy through the entire deposition, where it's like, she nitpicks every single word.
[00:26:39]  Give me the definition of that so I can answer the question.
[00:26:41]  Give me a definition of that so I can ask the question, answer the question.
[00:26:44]  And, you know, to our buddy's point at A-Lab, like that is a delay tactic, right?
[00:26:51]  Because it's like the deposition is just taking longer and longer and longer.
[00:26:55]  Yeah.
[00:26:56]  And object to form and foundation, which is something that you shall hear Mr. Pagliachi say quite a lot in this, is basically saying that like objecting to the form of the question, like the way that the question is being presented and objecting to the foundation of the question, meaning that there is actually like in her asking if you've recruited any females, well, we haven't established that there have been females recruited.
[00:27:19]  And so the foundation of this question is bullshit.
[00:27:21]  I'm sure that I'm not explaining that very well, but that's essentially what this means.
[00:27:26]  And, you know, in case there are people that don't understand legal stuff, like, well, myself, to be clear, like, this is a deposition.
[00:27:35]  And so objections are just recorded.
[00:27:37]  And that's why the lawyer continues on and says, okay, you can answer the question because now the objection has been recorded.
[00:27:43]  Yeah.
[00:27:43]  Yeah.
[00:27:44]  Essentially, it's just being noted.
[00:27:45]  So next, this is a little bit out of order because I kind of collected these all into one place.
[00:27:50]  I think this is really the only time that I've done that in here.
[00:27:54]  But we get some sort of interesting insight from Ghelane's perspective, although, of course, she's being sort of careful here due to the nature of the case about her and Jeffrey's relationship.
[00:28:04]  So we know that Jeffrey met Ghelane in, well, we think that Jeffrey met Ghelane in the early 90s, right after her father died, and that they dated and then that their relationship became complicated.
[00:28:17]  Let's say, they began living the swinger lifestyle even before they moved.
[00:28:22]  Oh my God.
[00:28:23]  Remember when Facebook made that thing where you could change your status to it's complicated?
[00:28:28]  Yes, yeah.
[00:28:29]  I mean, that's like a meme that still lives with us.
[00:28:32]  Yeah.
[00:28:33]  They're the error it's complicated.
[00:28:37]  So, all right, let me get back into it.
[00:28:39]  Crack my neck.
[00:28:40]  Were you his girlfriend in that year in 2004?
[00:28:43]  Define what you mean by girlfriend.
[00:28:45]  God, this is giving me a lot of flashbacks at several points in my life.
[00:28:50]  Were you in a relationship with him where you consider yourself his girlfriend?
[00:28:55]  No.
[00:28:56]  Damn cold.
[00:28:58]  Did you ever consider yourself his girlfriend?
[00:29:01]  That's a tricky question.
[00:29:03]  There were times when I would have liked to think of myself as his girlfriend.
[00:29:09]  Putting the collar up on that one, putting the collar up.
[00:29:12]  A lot of women nodding their heads to this like it's a fucking magnetic field.
[00:29:15]  Totally.
[00:29:19]  When would that have been?
[00:29:20]  Probably in the early 90s.
[00:29:23]  And so this is from this is this next part is from a little bit later in the deposition.
[00:29:27]  I just, again, wanted this in one place because sort of one of the running things about the Ghillain thing is that like just Epstein really didn't seem to care about her that much as a person, and she was slavishly obsessed with him.
[00:29:39]  Yeah.
[00:29:41]  So again, again, the lawyer asks, when did you first meet Jeffrey?
[00:29:45]  Some point in 1991.
[00:29:47]  And did Jeffrey know your father?
[00:29:49]  No.
[00:29:52]  How were you introduced to Jeffrey?
[00:29:54]  Some friend introduced us.
[00:29:58]  Can you describe your relationship back in 1991?
[00:30:01]  Was it friendship or was it a girlfriend relationship?
[00:30:04]  Or was it a work relationship?
[00:30:06]  What was your relationship in 1991?
[00:30:08]  It was just friendly.
[00:30:11]  Then I believe you testified you began working for him in 1992.
[00:30:15]  Is that correct?
[00:30:16]  Yes.
[00:30:17]  In 1992, I know you gave me the description of the work that you were performing for him.
[00:30:21]  How much was he paying you?
[00:30:22]  Do you remember?
[00:30:23]  I don't recall.
[00:30:24]  Ding, ding, ding.
[00:30:27]  And then a little later, why did you continue to maintain contact with Jeffrey Epstein after he pled guilty?
[00:30:34]  I'm a very loyal person, and Jeffrey was very good to me when my father passed away.
[00:30:40]  And I believe you need to be a good friend in people's hour of need.
[00:30:44]  And I felt that it was very thoughtful.
[00:30:46]  Nice thing for me to do was help in very limited fashion, which was helping if he had any issue with his homes in terms of staffing issues.
[00:30:55]  It was very, very minor, but I felt it was thoughtful in somebody's hour of need.
[00:31:00]  Okay, wait, what do you mean?
[00:31:01]  Pause for a second.
[00:31:02]  Yes, pause.
[00:31:06]  So it's a pretty wordy answer considering most of her other answers during this time.
[00:31:15]  Yeah, okay.
[00:31:16]  So she says I'm loyal and okay.
[00:31:18]  So after he pleads guilty, this is what 2005.
[00:31:22]  Yeah.
[00:31:23]  Okay, and, you know, Ghillane's father died in the early 90s when she, you know, you know, she says she met Jeffrey.
[00:31:34]  Well, she must be a very, very loyal person.
[00:31:38]  Yes, yeah.
[00:31:39]  Well, you know, it's crazy because, you know, speaking of her father, her father was, I mean, it is the most likely scenario that we know of the death of her father involved him being drowned off of his boat by what Ghillain herself says was a mixture of the Corsican mafia, or believe the Sicilian mafia, and the Israeli Mossad.
[00:32:01]  And it's just, I don't know.
[00:32:04]  It's just really wonderful to see that, like, yeah, okay, Israeli intelligence killed my father who worked for them and who was like threatening to blackmail them.
[00:32:12]  And like, it's just cool that like she continued to maintain that relationship, even though like shit got kind of fucked up and it like got complicated and messy.
[00:32:19]  Like, I have this knife that my grandfather gave me that says, my honor is my loyalty, transcribed in it in German.
[00:32:28]  And I like that it took me a really long time to get that.
[00:32:34]  I have to say, too, though, that like, you know, so after he pled guilty, this is how she describes his hour of need.
[00:32:42]  Like, that's his hour of need is when he pleads guilty to prostitution of a minor.
[00:32:48]  Well, it's funny because later she's like, oh, I don't know what he really pled guilty to.
[00:32:52]  Like, she just pretends like she doesn't really understand what happened.
[00:32:55]  And so, like, it's, it's just so, I mean, obviously, like, duh, this lady is just lying and this is part of a legal strategy.
[00:33:02]  But just like, I don't know who she expects.
[00:33:04]  It's no wonder she fucking lost this case is what I'm saying.
[00:33:07]  Yeah.
[00:33:08]  So she has, she says more about the relationship.
[00:33:12]  I think earlier today, you testified that at some point in time, you considered yourself to be his girlfriend.
[00:33:17]  Is that the closest you would say that your relationship was with him?
[00:33:20]  And if so, what time period was that?
[00:33:23]  Objection to the form and foundation.
[00:33:27]  I don't think I said I was his girlfriend.
[00:33:31]  I would like to think of myself as maybe.
[00:33:33]  I don't know.
[00:33:34]  I, sometime in the mid-90s.
[00:33:37]  How close was your relationship?
[00:33:40]  We were very friendly.
[00:33:43]  Without going into details, was your relationship with him intimate?
[00:33:50]  Yes.
[00:33:54]  Yeah, spicy, spicy.
[00:33:57]  You know, classic girl all the way through, gotta say.
[00:34:01]  Well, so what she says to like later in the deposition, actually several times to the deposition, she sort of repeats herself, is that her role was essentially that of a house manager.
[00:34:09]  Like she's very clear that she, you know, she, her, like, she basically almost pretends like she had this very impersonal role where she had like a little secretary's office and she dealt with like hiring pool boys and architects and stuff like that, but had no real like day-to-day insight on what Jeffrey Epstein did.
[00:34:27]  Yeah, but it's it's weird too because she kind of like even when she insists that that's the kind of work she was doing in other areas of questioning she kind of like steps back from it to make it seem like actually it wasn't that big of a deal and I didn't really hire that many people and I wasn't really doing much at all.
[00:34:43]  Like it's very, it's all very she doesn't literally contradict herself multiple times, but it feels like she does in the way that she's describing like her working relationship with him.
[00:34:55]  Yeah, it's like, and the thing is too, and we get to this a little later too, is that she's asked, because, I mean, remember, the crux of this case is that she sought out a teenage spa assistant at Mar-a-Lago, where Epstein was a member, Donald Trump's club, and hired her to work at the house.

=== Foreman's Strategic Missteps (15:00) ===

[00:35:16]  But the sort of logic that she uses for this is like, okay, she hired the pool boys, she hired the architects, she hired the plumbers, but she actually just introduced Virginia to Epstein, and Epstein actually hired the masseuses.
[00:35:31]  Yeah.
[00:35:32]  I mean, she also, she also, like, basically, like, it seems like she kind of breaks away from what she was instructed by her lawyers to do, but she repeatedly smears Virginia.
[00:35:47]  Like, like, in kind of crazy descriptions, like, not just that she's a liar, but she, I think she, at some point, she describes all these, like, these things as fantastical stories and lies and smears.
[00:36:00]  Yeah.
[00:36:01]  She's a bit dramatic with her language.
[00:36:03]  Yeah, and she's sort of, she really, she really, she doesn't just insinuate.
[00:36:06]  She flat out says, like, a lot of the times, like, this is just like a story that Virginia concocted to make money by selling to the press.
[00:36:14]  Yeah.
[00:36:15]  And, and, and, and around, I think, page 175, she, like, starts really going for it when the, when the lawyer, it's too much to read out here just because it's the same question over and over.
[00:36:25]  But for like a bunch of pages, uh, uh, the, the, the lawyers for Virginia just ask if she believes that, uh, that Epstein sexually abused minors.
[00:36:35]  And she keeps saying, I believe that Virginia Jeffrey is a liar, which very instructed by our lawyer's answer.
[00:36:45]  Yes.
[00:36:45]  And so this is, this is sort of like a question that's asked a bunch of different times with essentially the same response, which is usually just like deflection.
[00:36:55]  But this is a sort of interesting look on her strategy.
[00:37:00]  So it says, when you say adult employee, no, no, that's too hard to understand.
[00:37:06]  When you say adult employee, did you ever hire the lawyer again?
[00:37:10]  Did you ever hire someone that was under the age of 18?
[00:37:13]  Never.
[00:37:15]  Did you invite Virginia Jeffrey to come to Jeffrey Epstein's home when she was under the age of 18?
[00:37:21]  Object to the Foreman Foundation.
[00:37:23]  Virginia Roberts held herself out as a masseuse and invited herself to come and give a massage.
[00:37:31]  This is incredible.
[00:37:32]  Yeah, go on.
[00:37:33]  Sorry.
[00:37:33]  There's a little bit more.
[00:37:35]  In the course, and a very small part of my job was from time to time to find adult professional massage therapists for Jeffrey.
[00:37:43]  So this is incredible because she just says, oh yeah, Virginia actually said she was a masseuse.
[00:37:48]  And so I didn't hire her.
[00:37:49]  She just like, it's like, it's like, how you know how people get mad at New York Times for whatever for using a passive voice?
[00:37:55]  This is like, she just was a masseuse and it happened.
[00:37:59]  Yeah.
[00:38:02]  Yeah, it's all, it's very, um, yeah, I mean, it is, it's really funny.
[00:38:07]  It's like, you know, repeatedly she says, well, these girls invited themselves over and I don't know what they said to Jeffrey.
[00:38:14]  So you'll have to ask him, basically.
[00:38:16]  Yeah.
[00:38:17]  Yeah.
[00:38:20]  Then we, then we, then we start getting down to, like we mentioned before, some of her, she seems to get very frustrated at certain parts and start talking about Virginia in a way that you might not want to if you were the the defendant in this case.
[00:38:35]  Uh they start grilling Ghelane about how she met Virginia and Ghelane does not quite like that.
[00:38:41]  So the lawyers asked, did you participate?
[00:38:44]  Virginia lied 100% about absolutely everything that took place in the first meeting.
[00:38:48]  She lied repeatedly often and is just an awful fantasist.
[00:38:52]  So very difficult for anything to take place that she repeated because I was with her mother the entire time.
[00:38:58]  That's like a big thing that Ghelane says during this is that actually she couldn't have like participated in this first massage.
[00:39:05]  Not to mention like the many, many, many, many more that happened.
[00:39:09]  Because remember, Virginia was basically attached to the Epstein household for like quite a while and traveled all over or whatever.
[00:39:15]  But she says like, no, this is all bullshit because I was actually talking to Virginia Jeffrey's mom while she was being statutory raped by my boss.
[00:39:27]  This is another little funny bit that's also sort of emblematic of Ghelane's answers here because it's just so like you'll see.
[00:39:36]  So this is about topless people at Jeffrey Epstein's house.
[00:39:40]  Because this is Virginia Jeffrey mentions that a lot and there's a lot of sort of press stories about people going to Epstein's house and seeing a lot of topless teenagers.
[00:39:48]  Did you observe females at Jeffrey Epstein's house that were laying out topless in the back of the home?
[00:39:54]  In other words, without a shirt on?
[00:39:56]  So that's just another of Virginia's lies.
[00:40:00]  So let's be clear.
[00:40:01]  At the time when I was there and present frequently at the house, it was unusual to see people without their clothes on.
[00:40:09]  When you say unusual, did you observe people without their clothes at Epstein's home, at Jeffrey Epstein's home?
[00:40:15]  Can I answer?
[00:40:16]  Sometimes people in the privacy of a house and swimming pool, I have seen people from time to time take their top off.
[00:40:23]  I have seen people from time to time do that.
[00:40:26]  Very unusual.
[00:40:27]  Naked people around the people at any frequent period of time, I have never seen.
[00:40:35]  This is obviously untrue, and I'm not so sure I need to elaborate on how untrue that is.
[00:40:43]  This is another question.
[00:40:44]  The name here is redacted and it's a victim's name.
[00:40:47]  And so I don't think people are really, certainly, it doesn't matter me who it is.
[00:40:53]  But the lawyer asks, were you aware that Jeffrey was having sexual contact with Blank when she was 13 years old?
[00:40:58]  Object to the form and foundation.
[00:41:00]  I would be very shocked and surprised if that were true.
[00:41:05]  Yeah, she acts continually sort of aghast that that could be happening.
[00:41:09]  Yeah, yeah, that's basically her go-to answer.
[00:41:14]  This is another really classic answer by Ghillane at the end of this here.
[00:41:19]  So the lawyer asks, I'm asking if they performed sexual acts.
[00:41:23]  Object to the form and foundation.
[00:41:26]  Did any of the massage therapists who were at the home perform sexual acts for Jeffrey Epstein?
[00:41:30]  I don't know what you mean by sexual acts.
[00:41:34]  I'm not asking, Jesus Christ.
[00:41:37]  I'm not asking about consensual sex acts.
[00:41:41]  I'm asking whether any of the massage therapists perform sexual acts for Mr. Epstein as I have just described.
[00:41:48]  I have never seen anybody have sexual intercourse with Jeffrey ever.
[00:41:54]  That is just a little editorializing here.
[00:41:56]  I don't believe that to be true.
[00:41:58]  No.
[00:41:59]  In fact, quite the opposite.
[00:42:01]  I'm not asking about sexual intercourse.
[00:42:04]  I'm asking about any sexual act, touching of the breast.
[00:42:06]  Did you ever see?
[00:42:07]  Can you read back the question?
[00:42:08]  They read back the sort of question about, well, basically what I just described.
[00:42:13]  I'm not addressing any questions about consensual adult sex.
[00:42:17]  If you want to talk about what the subject matter, which is defamation and lying, Virginia Roberts, that you and Virginia Roberts are participating in perpetuating her lies, I'm happy to address those.
[00:42:29]  I never saw any inappropriate underage activities with Jeffrey ever.
[00:42:33]  I'm not asking about underage.
[00:42:36]  I'm asking about whether any of the masseuses that were at the home performed sexual acts for Mr. Epstein.
[00:42:43]  I have just answered the question.
[00:42:45]  No, you haven't.
[00:42:47]  I have.
[00:42:48]  No, you haven't.
[00:42:50]  Yes, I have.
[00:42:51]  You are refusing to answer the question.
[00:42:54]  Let's move on.
[00:42:55]  I'm in charge of the deposition.
[00:42:58]  I say when we move on and when we don't.
[00:43:00]  You are here to respond to my questions.
[00:43:03]  If you are refusing to answer the court, or if you're refusing to answer, the court will bring you back for another deposition to answer these questions.
[00:43:09]  Do you understand that?
[00:43:11]  You don't need to threaten the witness.
[00:43:16]  I mean, that is just, that is just really, that is, that is, that is, that takes some chutzpah.
[00:43:23]  Yeah.
[00:43:23]  So as it kind of moves on, they start getting into the details of the kind of various arrangements or, you know, alleged arrangements between Ghillane, Jeffrey, the, you know, underage girls as Masus says, and kind of what Gillane's relationship there is with the household and hiring and all of that.
[00:43:46]  So this is actually my favorite answer that she gives during the entire deposition, and I'm really excited to share this with you.
[00:43:54]  Did you ever tell Blank, one of the young girls that was exploited, that she would get extra money if she provided Jeffrey massages?
[00:44:03]  I was always happy to give career advice to people, and I think that becoming somebody in the healthcare profession, either exercise instructor or nutritionist or professional massage therapist, is an excellent job opportunity.
[00:44:18]  Hourly wages are around 7, 8, 9.
[00:44:21]  And as a professional healthcare provider, you can earn somewhere between, as we have established, $100 to $200 and be able to travel and have a job that pays that is wonderful job opportunity.
[00:44:32]  So in the context of advising people for opportunities for work, it is possible that I would have said that she should explore that as an option.
[00:44:40]  Did you tell her that she would get extra money if she massaged Jeffrey?
[00:44:44]  I'm just saying, I cannot recall the exact conversation.
[00:44:46]  I give career advice and I have done that.
[00:44:49]  Incredible.
[00:44:53]  You know what, though?
[00:44:55]  I feel like this is going to get me in trouble, but I'm just going to say it.
[00:44:58]  Crafty.
[00:45:00]  Very crafty.
[00:45:00]  Oh, it's totally crafty.
[00:45:02]  It's totally.
[00:45:02]  I mean, it's that answer to me is just like, that is the Ghillain that I like know right there.
[00:45:09]  Like that is, that is just like this like totally like icy fae.
[00:45:13]  I mean, she, the facade cracks quite a lot during this deposition, or really just a few places.
[00:45:19]  But that is just the sort of like that seems mercenary to me.
[00:45:23]  Oh my God.
[00:45:24]  So you said that was your favorite.
[00:45:27]  I think this one might be my favorite.
[00:45:29]  And this also goes on for quite some time.
[00:45:32]  Now, like we said, arguing about definitions, the, you know, this is the classic Clinton move.
[00:45:39]  But yeah, this is a really, this, some people may have seen this online because I think it garnered some headlines.
[00:45:46]  But man, we gotta, we gotta read through this whole thing.
[00:45:49]  The lawyer says, did you have a basket of sex toys that you kept in the Palm Beach house?
[00:45:54]  Objection to the Foreman Foundation.
[00:45:56]  First of all, what do you mean?
[00:45:59]  A laundry basket that contains sex toys in it.
[00:46:02]  Can you ask the question again?
[00:46:05]  Did you have a laundry basket that contained sex toys in it in the Palm Beach house?
[00:46:10]  Objection to the Foreman Foundation.
[00:46:13]  Did you have a laundry basket of sex toys in the Palm Beach house?
[00:46:19]  Same objection.
[00:46:21]  You can answer.
[00:46:24]  I don't recollect anything about a laundry basket of sex toys.
[00:46:27]  Do you recollect having sex toys at the Palm Beach house?
[00:46:32]  You have to define what you are talking about.
[00:46:35]  A sex toy meaning a vibrator of some kind.
[00:46:38]  Sometimes they're called dildos of that nature.
[00:46:41]  Let me take that again.
[00:46:43]  Just you can keep this in.
[00:46:44]  I just want to say that again.
[00:46:45]  A sex toy meaning a vibrator of some kind.
[00:46:48]  Sometimes they're called dildos of that nature.
[00:46:51]  Anything like that.
[00:46:52]  I don't recollect anything that would formally be a dildo, anything like that.
[00:46:58]  Formally, huh?
[00:46:59]  How would you describe sex toys?
[00:47:01]  I wouldn't describe sex toys.
[00:47:04]  Did you have anything that was of an electronic nature that would be used during sex?
[00:47:09]  Objection to the Foreman Foundation.
[00:47:12]  I have no idea what you are referring to.
[00:47:15]  The next several pages, by the way, are completely blacked out.
[00:47:19]  Oh, yeah, that is really crazy.
[00:47:21]  So, you know, I mentioned at the top of the show, there's the names that are redacted, and, you know, we'll link to the slate piece where you can kind of read who that is and get a little key going.
[00:47:30]  But there are, like, directly after this conversation about sex toys, just like three pages with every line redacted.
[00:47:40]  Yeah, I think it's the only part in the deposition that's like that.
[00:47:44]  Yeah, I what do you think that is about?
[00:47:48]  So I immediately was like, that was maybe like graphic descriptions of sex with kids.
[00:47:55]  You know, like I could see, I don't know how that would work.
[00:47:57]  I'm not sure if they would black that out.
[00:47:59]  Or like, honestly, though, I honestly just don't know.
[00:48:04]  Yeah.
[00:48:05]  I don't know.
[00:48:06]  I mean, yeah, I have no idea.
[00:48:10]  Or it could be something that would have like a lot of bearing on Ghelane's upcoming case that her lawyers agreed to have these documents released if that part could be blacked out.
[00:48:20]  That sounds most realistic to me.
[00:48:23]  Interesting.
[00:48:24]  So we're not going to read this part out loud.
[00:48:26]  I did include it in the show notes today for us to read off of here, but I just want to say that.
[00:48:32]  No, no, maybe we should because I think people need to hear this.
[00:48:37]  Okay, so this is a deposition from Alfredo Rodriguez, Epstein's former house manager, who was our butler, who had actually was the person who stole the black book and tried to sell it at first for honestly pretty small amount of money and was arrested and spent, I think, three more months in jail than Epstein spent for doing all of the stuff.
[00:49:01]  And then he died of cancer very quickly after he got out.
[00:49:07]  So in this, I will be playing Bradley Edwards.
[00:49:13]  Young Chomsky will be playing Mr. Critton, who uh in in and and uh old Liz Franzak will be playing the witness, Alfreda Rodriguez.
[00:49:23]  He also said he would wipe down the vibrators in a sex toys and put them away in the armoire.
[00:49:27]  Form these things have a tip, they have the cream, they have all kinds of cream for giving massage.
[00:49:35]  How many of these massages or vibrators would you wipe down?
[00:49:38]  Form this big one all the time, right?
[00:49:43]  Other than the big one all the time, did you wipe down at any time any of the other sex toys or vibrators?
[00:49:50]  No, form.
[00:49:51]  Interesting.
[00:49:53]  So if there was any other sex toys or vibrators, or I believe you used the term dildo earlier, that were ever used, those are items that you did not find on the floor and were put away in the amoi.
[00:50:04]  Form?
[00:50:05]  Luella told me I did this.
[00:50:07]  I did that.
[00:50:08]  So tell us what Luella, what did Luella?
[00:50:10]  Luella, by the way, was a house cleaner there.
[00:50:13]  So tell us what did Luella tell you?
[00:50:16]  She finds toys on the floor.

=== Did Luella Find Toys? (08:05) ===

[00:50:17]  She had to clean them.
[00:50:19]  Did she tell you when she found the toys on the floor?
[00:50:21]  After his massages, you know.
[00:50:24]  With the young girls that we're talking about.
[00:50:26]  Yes.
[00:50:28]  Okay.
[00:50:28]  And when did Luella tell you that?
[00:50:30]  Almost every other time when she found it, you know, Alfredo, I found this thing again because she despised to clean this.
[00:50:36]  She had to put the gloves on or whatever.
[00:50:39]  Okay, so it sounds like you had an actual conversation about this where she's describing that she doesn't want to clean this.
[00:50:45]  Because I told her to tell me up to date on things that are not normal.
[00:50:48]  So she told me, you know, I found this.
[00:50:50]  I found that.
[00:50:53]  I just like, I'm sorry.
[00:50:54]  It's like, I kind of wanted to gag when he's like, you know, yeah, so she had to put the gloves on.
[00:50:59]  It was unusual.
[00:51:00]  It's like, ooh.
[00:51:01]  Jesus.
[00:51:02]  I know.
[00:51:02]  There's another part in Rodriguez.
[00:51:04]  And by the way, this is from the actual, like, original criminal case.
[00:51:10]  Yeah.
[00:51:11]  Epstein's criminal case.
[00:51:12]  And there's actually another part where Alfredo Rodriguez describes how Luella almost quit because she's very Catholic and found a picture of the Pope, which Epstein had.
[00:51:24]  You can actually see it.
[00:51:25]  A picture of the Pope, or you see it in still basically from one of the police videos of going to his house, next to a bunch of naked girls.
[00:51:35]  To be clear, the Pope himself is not next to a bunch of naked girls.
[00:51:38]  The photo of the Pope is a photo next to a bunch of photos of naked girls.
[00:51:42]  Yeah, we went through a bunch of that stuff in one of our earliest episodes, and we did a very similar teleplay to what we're doing now.
[00:51:50]  Yes, we did.
[00:51:50]  A little return before.
[00:51:54]  So here's another example of Ghelane's ultimate evasiveness.
[00:51:59]  This is from, of course, we're returning to the Ghalain deposition.
[00:52:04]  Have you ever said to anybody that you recruit girls?
[00:52:07]  Stop right there.
[00:52:08]  I have never recruited girls.
[00:52:10]  Let's stop there.
[00:52:11]  Now break down the question.
[00:52:14]  Have you ever said to anybody?
[00:52:15]  By girls, are we talking about underage people?
[00:52:20]  You said girls.
[00:52:21]  Are we talking about underage?
[00:52:22]  We are not talking about consensual acts.
[00:52:25]  This is a defamation suit.
[00:52:28]  I am asking the questions.
[00:52:30]  I know what this case is about.
[00:52:32]  I'm trying to.
[00:52:33]  I will ask you the questions.
[00:52:35]  If you don't understand the question, I can break it down for you.
[00:52:38]  I am happy to do that.
[00:52:40]  Break it down a lot, please.
[00:52:43]  I will do that.
[00:52:45]  The question is, have you ever said to anybody that you recruit other girls?
[00:52:50]  Why don't you stop there?
[00:52:52]  Let me finish my question.
[00:52:54]  Have you ever said to anybody that you recruit girls to take the pressure off of you so you won't have to have sex with Jeffrey?
[00:53:00]  Have you said that?
[00:53:02]  That's the question.
[00:53:04]  So she doesn't answer.
[00:53:06]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:53:06]  She just keeps, she keeps evading.
[00:53:09]  One thing that she says a lot is that if anybody who's not Virginia Jeffrey gets brought up into this, or she even, she just says this a lot, is that if there's any question of sexual acts involving adult, even if it's involving another child, she describes them as consensual sex acts between two adults that aren't pertinent to this conversation.
[00:53:26]  And so she really uses that as a way to deflect a lot from really a lot of the questions here.
[00:53:32]  Well, like we said, there's a bunch of redacted names.
[00:53:35]  And one of the big names, like we also said, is President Billiam William Clinton.
[00:53:44]  He, of course, as you, everyone listening to this podcast should know, appears about 27 times in the flight logs.
[00:53:53]  I think over at what, two different airplanes?
[00:53:56]  Yes, indeed.
[00:53:57]  And I guess that Virginia's lawyers tried to depose Clinton, but that didn't really happen for this, did it?
[00:54:03]  I wish, I wish it had so.
[00:54:05]  I mean, there's no chance.
[00:54:06]  It seems very difficult to depose an ex-president.
[00:54:08]  Just gonna say.
[00:54:09]  Yes.
[00:54:11]  For all you people out there who think you're gonna get old Donnie deals behind bars, let it be known.
[00:54:17]  Very difficult to depose an ex-president.
[00:54:19]  I bet I could oppose him.
[00:54:21]  No.
[00:54:23]  So, yeah, getting back into it.
[00:54:25]  Was that for both airplanes and helicopters or just helicopters?
[00:54:29]  Just helicopters.
[00:54:31]  Have you ever flown Bill Clinton on your helicopter?
[00:54:34]  That is another one of Virginia's lies.
[00:54:37]  The question is, have you ever done that?
[00:54:40]  I have never flown rejected at any time ever.
[00:54:44]  In any helicopter, in any place, any time, in any state, in any country, at any time, anywhere.
[00:54:52]  Have you ever had dinner with Bill Clinton at Jeffree's home at any of Jeffree's homes?
[00:54:57]  No, I don't believe so.
[00:54:59]  Have you ever traveled on Jeffree's plane with Bill Clinton?
[00:55:03]  Yes, I have.
[00:55:05]  Would that have been in 2002?
[00:55:08]  It's very hard for me to recollect exact dates, but that sounds about right.
[00:55:15]  Have you ever gone to dinner at Nello's alone with him?
[00:55:22]  That's not actually asked, but that is a little true on Paul Daffy.
[00:55:26]  I love that.
[00:55:26]  You love that detail.
[00:55:27]  Nello's.
[00:55:28]  I love that details.
[00:55:29]  Yeah, I just, I don't know.
[00:55:29]  Nello's just sounds like such a fucking restaurant name.
[00:55:32]  Yeah, it sounds like a very like season one sex in the city, you know, working lunch at Nello's, late 90s up from Manhattan.
[00:55:42]  I love that show.
[00:55:43]  Yeah.
[00:55:44]  Little white wine and like a crab salad at Nello's.
[00:55:48]  What I'm basically trying to say here is that it was reported a long time ago that Ghillain Maxwell and Bill Clinton, I've said a bunch of times in the podcast.
[00:55:54]  Maybe we got new listeners.
[00:55:55]  Who fucking knows?
[00:55:56]  That they dined alone at Nello's.
[00:55:58]  Oh, I thought you were going to say that they did it.
[00:56:00]  No, they fucked.
[00:56:01]  Like, I honestly, I want to be clear about that.
[00:56:04]  I honestly, like, no shit, not just being like a weird guy, think that Ghillain Maxwell fucked Bill Clinton.
[00:56:10]  Yeah, I think so too.
[00:56:12]  Yeah.
[00:56:13]  Well, we actually have a lot more to cover.
[00:56:16]  Yeah.
[00:56:16]  Like we said, this is like 465, 465 pages.
[00:56:22]  It's like the Iliad of pedophilia.
[00:56:26]  The pedophiliad.
[00:56:28]  Exactly.
[00:56:29]  Yes.
[00:56:30]  So, and there's a lot more big names, and including the big one, Israel.
[00:56:35]  Just kidding.
[00:56:36]  It's a really short word.
[00:56:39]  Coming up.
[00:56:40]  But that will have to wait for next episode.
[00:56:43]  Oh, man.
[00:56:44]  I'm going to have to get my voice going.
[00:56:47]  A lot more Ghillain to come.
[00:56:50]  All right.
[00:56:50]  Well, with that, I am going back into my cell.
[00:56:54]  Liz is returning to her perch atop the building amongst the gargoyles.
[00:56:59]  Jan Chomsky is going back to Quantico.
[00:57:03]  And that's not the outro, so I don't know why I'm doing this.
[00:57:06]  go to the outro.
[00:57:19]  Now we're doing the outro.
[00:57:23]  Like that, they call that the transition.
[00:57:25]  They call me the transition king, baby.
[00:57:27]  Oh, my God.
[00:57:29]  So, yeah, that was an edifying read.
[00:57:34]  Nothing?
[00:57:35]  Not giving me any help here?
[00:57:36]  I don't know.
[00:57:37]  I'm thrown.
[00:57:38]  I thought we were going.
[00:57:39]  We're like leaving the episode and now we're back.
[00:57:42]  Well, we're doing the outro now.
[00:57:44]  Oh.
[00:57:45]  Okay.
[00:57:46]  But you already did the outro, I thought.
[00:57:48]  Well, let's just finish doing it.
[00:57:49]  For fucking Christ.
[00:57:50]  We look like amateurs, baby.
[00:57:52]  Okay, no, check this out.
[00:57:53]  Hey, great.
[00:57:54]  Great episode, everybody.
[00:57:56]  Really got a lot of help from my co-host there on that outro I did.
[00:58:00]  That was fucking cool.
[00:58:02]  Did not embarrass me in front of our audience of 200,000 25-year-old DSA guys.
[00:58:09]  Anyways, my name is Brace Belden.
[00:58:14]  I'm Liz.
[00:58:15]  And I'm Young Chomsky.
[00:58:17]  This is, of course, the podcast TrueNON, and we will see you next time.