True Anon Truth Feed - Episode 100: Brat Camp
Aired: 2020-09-16
Duration: 01:28:39


=== 1000th Episode Milestone (14:29) ===

[00:00:00]  Well, Liz, we made it.
[00:00:03]  What did we make?
[00:00:04]  Our 1000th episode.
[00:00:07]  I don't think that's right.
[00:00:09]  Yeah, something like that.
[00:00:11]  It's in the eight years that we've been doing this podcast.
[00:00:16]  You know, it does.
[00:00:17]  Every episode feels, it's like dog years with you.
[00:00:20]  That's why I call it the building years, which means that every episode is actually it counts for 30 days of my life.
[00:00:30]  And honestly, that's like, that's like what I treasure so much about working with you is that like, you know, we have a short life, right?
[00:00:36]  Like, you know, you live, you, you don't do some stuff and then you die.
[00:00:41]  And it's like, it's like you never existed.
[00:00:43]  But like every second I spend with you feels like an eternity.
[00:00:47]  And like, you know, my people have been looking for the secret of eternal life.
[00:00:54]  I mean, frankly, since the beginning of time.
[00:00:58]  And in you, Liz, I feel like I found that.
[00:01:01]  Praise.
[00:01:03]  Yeah.
[00:01:04]  I mean, I literally, it's like I'm trapped.
[00:01:06]  It's like a purgatorial existence that I can't escape.
[00:01:10]  It's like neither heaven nor hell.
[00:01:12]  It's just okay.
[00:01:14]  You know, here I thought you were going to be very sweet and then you just dig in that knife.
[00:01:20]  No, baby, I've moved on.
[00:01:22]  I signed a solo deal with Spotify.
[00:01:26]  Don't joke about that.
[00:01:28]  Okay.
[00:01:29]  Well, I'll tell you the real thing.
[00:01:30]  I signed a solo deal with iHeartRadio.
[00:01:35]  I'm just joking.
[00:01:36]  Liz, we made it.
[00:01:37]  We made it.
[00:01:38]  I know.
[00:01:38]  We made it.
[00:01:39]  100 episodes.
[00:01:41]  100.
[00:01:41]  Can you believe it?
[00:01:43]  I struggle to, but it does feel.
[00:01:47]  Sometimes I'm like, wow, how did we do this?
[00:01:49]  And then other times I'm like, fuck, it feels like it's been 200.
[00:01:52]  Yes, yeah, yeah.
[00:01:54]  I remember when we first started back in, I mean, hell, the golden age of radio 2019.
[00:02:02]  When this whole podcast thing was really starting to take off.
[00:02:04]  I feel like it's crazy because like, you know, you know, there's like a lot of talk about this Sex Pistol show, I think in Manchester, where like everybody who was at the Sex Pistol show started a band like Joy Division and like the Buzzcocks and all this stuff.
[00:02:16]  It feels like everybody who listened to the first True Anon episode started a podcast.
[00:02:20]  I don't think that's right.
[00:02:22]  Rogan, Call Her Daddy.
[00:02:26]  Portnoy.
[00:02:27]  Portnoy, of course.
[00:02:28]  I mean, Portnoy was like a big thing.
[00:02:30]  I remember our first show at Manchester Trade Hall.
[00:02:35]  And Portnoy comes up to us and he's like this little 16-year-old kid, pimples all over his face with this little Truanon fanzine he made.
[00:02:43]  And he asked us to sign it.
[00:02:45]  You remember that?
[00:02:46]  I do.
[00:02:46]  I do.
[00:02:46]  He was with his buddy, Will Meneker.
[00:02:49]  Yes, yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:02:51]  And they were like, oh, we're thinking to start this thing called Bars Fool Sports.
[00:02:57]  And Liz was like, get out of here with that name.
[00:03:00]  That's terrible.
[00:03:01]  And then I said, hey, buddy, what am I sitting on?
[00:03:04]  And they said, oh, barstool.
[00:03:08]  Liz was actually sitting on like a chaised lounge, but it was in a bar-type environment.
[00:03:14]  Unfortunately, Mil Winaker.
[00:03:16]  Will Minoker was killed later that year.
[00:03:20]  But Portnoy, Portnoy was able to start Barstool.
[00:03:23]  I mean, and look at him.
[00:03:24]  He has got something to do with the president now.
[00:03:27]  You know, he pays me a lot of money to do this podcast to this woman on his network.
[00:03:31]  Making lots of money in crypto.
[00:03:35]  And the crypto king.
[00:03:36]  So actually, now that you said that, it is actually time for us.
[00:03:40]  I've been super stoked on this.
[00:03:42]  We've been working on this for a while.
[00:03:43]  We are doing a coin.
[00:03:45]  Yes, yes.
[00:03:45]  That's what we're so excited to launch the True Anon coin.
[00:03:50]  TrueCoin.
[00:03:51]  It is the only cryptocurrency that you cannot buy childborn with.
[00:03:57]  It is actually the sole one, which, because we realized, we took a look at the market.
[00:04:01]  We're like, wait, what is 99% of cryptocurrency transactions about is the purchasing and selling of child pornography.
[00:04:10]  And we're like, well, what if you want to buy a muffin?
[00:04:12]  Yeah.
[00:04:13]  And that's why you get TrueCoin, the only non-pedophile crypto coin podcast.
[00:04:20]  Unfortunately, it is only able to be used at certain bakeries for muffins.
[00:04:26]  All right.
[00:04:27]  That's enough.
[00:04:29]  Everyone, Truan, this is our 100th episode.
[00:04:32]  We're so happy to be here.
[00:04:34]  We're so happy that you're here.
[00:04:36]  And we got a little special something for you.
[00:04:40]  Old Young Chomsky's been in the stereo lab, which is what he calls this studio, cooking up a little montage.
[00:04:46]  Enjoy.
[00:04:48]  Should we start?
[00:04:48]  Let's fucking start.
[00:04:49]  Let's just go for it.
[00:04:50]  Jeffrey Epstein, Devil.
[00:04:52]  We're going to catch him.
[00:04:54]  We need to know the truth.
[00:04:55]  I want to say it's going to be fun, but I think it's just going to be weird.
[00:04:58]  And it's basically run by intelligence agencies and child molesters.
[00:05:02]  Allegedly.
[00:05:03]  Apparently, this is just my life now.
[00:05:04]  We have the beam on you.
[00:05:05]  You are always at porno show.
[00:05:07]  I wasn't at the porno.
[00:05:08]  They just filmed one in there.
[00:05:09]  I thought you were going to be able to do it.
[00:05:09]  You went to the beauty bar one.
[00:05:11]  You didn't you?
[00:05:12]  No.
[00:05:12]  There's going to be so much bumping and grinding on the Khashoggis.
[00:05:15]  I just, I hate all of these people.
[00:05:17]  Dude, I cannot believe Epstein is dead.
[00:05:18]  Ha ha, jokes on you, sicko.
[00:05:20]  AIQ is six.
[00:05:22]  No, don't do that.
[00:05:23]  Oh, I'm about to go off.
[00:05:25]  No, Brace.
[00:05:26]  Yes.
[00:05:27]  Bodies, spaces, time, youth.
[00:05:30]  That was not as anti-Semitic as I thought you were going to be.
[00:05:33]  Brace.
[00:05:33]  Liz.
[00:05:35]  Okay, can you just intro the show now?
[00:05:37]  My name is Isabel Maxwell.
[00:05:39]  The Upper Baron Admiral Brace Belden von Goldsmith.
[00:05:44]  Brace Belden, PhD, Brace Satoshi Belden.
[00:05:48]  Brace, let's pull back.
[00:05:49]  And we're your only friend.
[00:05:51]  I'm Jeffrey.
[00:05:52]  Ghislaine.
[00:05:53]  America Kaka.
[00:05:54]  Did people jack off to ASMR?
[00:05:55]  Don't lean in too hard.
[00:05:57]  A full depedophilization.
[00:05:59]  Jeffrey Epstein conspiracy nuts.
[00:06:02]  Liz and I are not on the list.
[00:06:04]  I love you so much.
[00:06:05]  How do you like that?
[00:06:06]  Liz Lane.
[00:06:07]  Bernie is literally the only candidate running for president who is not a pedophile allegedly.
[00:06:12]  No, no, it's never happened any at all.
[00:06:14]  I was doing a bit and it went too far.
[00:06:16]  And that's like your cock.
[00:06:19]  Please don't finish that sentence.
[00:06:20]  I've been eating pussy all day.
[00:06:21]  No, no, no.
[00:06:22]  Just so you know, this is not normal.
[00:06:25]  I've had a gun in my mouth for the past 15 minutes.
[00:06:27]  This is not a thing.
[00:06:28]  It's a thing.
[00:06:29]  Yeah, okay.
[00:06:29]  I guess it's not.
[00:06:30]  And if you are bootlicking this, I swear to God, I know you fucking ISP or IP.
[00:06:35]  I know your IP address, and I will come and fucking suck you off.
[00:06:39]  Mr. Brace.
[00:06:39]  Dude, Ghillane kind of looks like me in this one picture.
[00:06:42]  Yeah, everyone thought we were joking and we were just goofing.
[00:06:45]  Can you give me a giggle?
[00:06:46]  Sorry, are we?
[00:06:47]  Is this ableist?
[00:06:48]  Are we being ableist right now?
[00:06:49]  Two things that I really like: humor and violence.
[00:06:51]  None of that is real.
[00:06:52]  First of all, I work for the FBI and forming on DSA chapters.
[00:06:55]  Oh, share, all share, all share.
[00:06:57]  I'm a prankster.
[00:06:58]  What?
[00:06:58]  And he can suck my fucking dick.
[00:07:00]  Turn your phone off, Brace.
[00:07:01]  Lena Del Raytheon?
[00:07:02]  Global financial corporate governance structure.
[00:07:06]  I have never heard of a penis that looks like this.
[00:07:09]  Online is just poison.
[00:07:11]  I'm TrueAnon, the world's only podcast.
[00:07:17]  This was like, what, 2000?
[00:07:19]  This is like 2010, 2011.
[00:07:21]  Corners of my mind.
[00:07:23]  I should have arrested them all then in this.
[00:07:25]  Misty water-colored memory.
[00:07:27]  There was a bunch of goblin-looking guys Of the way we were Wearing sweatpants walking around jacking off What's up, YouTube?
[00:07:51]  This is Rachel Jake.
[00:07:52]  I am here in the Jake House.
[00:07:54]  I'm sorry, okay.
[00:07:55]  The Jake House?
[00:07:56]  The Jake House.
[00:07:57]  Well, I tried Racial House and it didn't attract.
[00:08:01]  Yeah.
[00:08:03]  Hello.
[00:08:04]  I am Brace.
[00:08:06]  I'm Liz.
[00:08:08]  And Miyamo Young Chomsky, the producer.
[00:08:12]  This is True Anon.
[00:08:14]  True and the 100th episode.
[00:08:17]  It's the spectacular bonanza of the 100th episode.
[00:08:20]  Yeah, we've got a whole fireworks show planned, I think, right?
[00:08:25]  About that.
[00:08:26]  We actually tried to do it last week, and unfortunately, that did cause some problems in the wilderness areas of California.
[00:08:33]  And we are working on that effort right now.
[00:08:36]  But maybe X-Nay on the Fireworks A Tayama?
[00:08:41]  All right.
[00:08:42]  We do have an interesting episode, I think.
[00:08:45]  Hopefully, a fun episode planned for you.
[00:08:48]  But I just want to say to in earnest, I can't believe that we're doing this.
[00:08:54]  And thank you guys so much for listening.
[00:08:56]  Yeah, it is psycho that we are doing our hunting.
[00:08:59]  Yeah, it is.
[00:09:00]  It is absolutely completely psycho.
[00:09:02]  And I don't want to be too navel-gazing, but it is a very weird time.
[00:09:06]  So thank you guys for listening and continuing to listen.
[00:09:09]  Hey, Liz, you want to do some real navel gazing?
[00:09:12]  No, I don't.
[00:09:14]  You liked that one, didn't you?
[00:09:16]  I didn't like that at all.
[00:09:17]  That's why they put buttons all the way down the shirt.
[00:09:20]  Oh, my God.
[00:09:21]  Yeah, actually, so today's episode.
[00:09:24]  Well, I mean, I guess we can kind of intro it like this.
[00:09:26]  Today's episode is sort of a multi-faceted one.
[00:09:32]  But we are finally sort of doing an episode on a certain industry that I'm not a big fan of.
[00:09:41]  And finally, you know, this has been done before in the tabloids, but has never been done in a format like this.
[00:09:47]  We are linking me and Paris Hilton.
[00:09:50]  Yeah, so I don't know if everyone saw this in the news, but there's a new documentary out about Paris Hilton.
[00:09:57]  I mean, I think I'm sure she's a producer on it.
[00:10:00]  Although she seems to make a point that she didn't have a lot of creative control over what the director ended up using, although who knows if that's actually the case.
[00:10:09]  But it's a documentary called This Is Paris.
[00:10:14]  And it's directed by Alexandra Dean.
[00:10:18]  I think it premiered at whatever iteration of the Treybeck Film Festival happened in April.
[00:10:24]  I don't know if that was like a home video situation or whatever, but you can go online and stream it on YouTube, which is how Brace and I watched it last night, actually.
[00:10:32]  It's a YouTube original, which I didn't know that there was and I dislike now that I do.
[00:10:37]  Yeah, she's going to actually start streaming with Valsh.
[00:10:40]  That's like part of her contract.
[00:10:44]  So, yeah, I did hear, it did take place in a Tacoma.
[00:10:48]  Paris Hilton debunks the myths of the right.
[00:10:52]  Wait, you're telling me that Ben Shapiro is saying something that's a little kooky and off-kilter?
[00:11:00]  I mean, give me a fucking break.
[00:11:01]  Let me break it down.
[00:11:02]  It's going to take me one hour, but I'm going to tell you why and how Ben Shapiro is stupid.
[00:11:08]  It's like, why did you see it?
[00:11:09]  I take you a fucking hour.
[00:11:11]  I will say, I would rather watch Paris Hilton live stream for an hour than pretty much anybody, any other human being on earth.
[00:11:17]  I actually, so it's, it's funny because when you messaged me about this a few days ago, I had not thought like Paris Hilton had totally disappeared from my radar.
[00:11:26]  I mean, it's not like she was heavily on my radar at any point, but she's like really disappeared from kind of the public consciousness.
[00:11:34]  It's weird because she has.
[00:11:36]  I agree she has for me because she's sort of, and in the film, they actually like kind of directly talk about this.
[00:11:42]  She spawned an entire generation of like influencers that have been created in her image, which I think we're going to get into sort of at some point.
[00:11:55]  She's still incredibly popular, apparently, particularly in Europe and Asia.
[00:11:59]  And I guess she's got, I mean, they talk about how her goal is to make a billion dollars.
[00:12:04]  She makes like a million dollars a DJ gig, which, by the way, who is paying Paris Hilton a million dollars to DJ?
[00:12:14]  Liz.
[00:12:16]  So I know you weren't at the last one.
[00:12:17]  I thought, though, right?
[00:12:18]  Am I being crazy?
[00:12:20]  I thought we got a deal, but yeah, I mean, I guess it's a lot.
[00:12:23]  You get what you pay for and you get a lot.
[00:12:24]  Yeah, I was sort of astounded at that too.
[00:12:26]  There's footage of her playing at a festival at one point, and people are tomorrowland, yes, tomorrow land.
[00:12:31]  Specifically, a group of Israelis hoisting the old blue and white flag.
[00:12:36]  Oh my gosh.
[00:12:37]  So excited to see her DJ.
[00:12:40]  Yeah, that was very weird.
[00:12:41]  The whole thing was very, I don't know.
[00:12:43]  it's an interesting spectacle um but i will say if you if you i to interrupt real quick actually and this is sort of on topic for what i'm saying Effell is, if you watch this documentary and you see the scene with her and her German boyfriend during that, he is doing nothing wrong.
[00:13:00]  That is how you normally interact with women.
[00:13:02]  You get extremely drunk at 2 p.m.
[00:13:04]  And then you just keep being like, I'm sorry, babe, but also kind of yelling at them and sort of smooshing your face against their face.
[00:13:11]  And then throwing her laptop everywhere.
[00:13:14]  So we were both fucked up.
[00:13:15]  I think she was drunk too.
[00:13:17]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:13:18]  They were both wasted.
[00:13:20]  Yeah.
[00:13:21]  Sorry, I just, I put on my little detective's cap there.
[00:13:24]  That's what I'm known for.
[00:13:26]  My investigative skills that I put to use on Trunon tell me that both of them perchance had too much to drink that afternoon.
[00:13:34]  Yeah.
[00:13:36]  Okay, before we get into the kind of the meat and potatoes of the movie, I do want to say one thing that I noticed.
[00:13:42]  It's like, Nikki Hilton fucking hates her sister so much.
[00:13:46]  Yeah.
[00:13:47]  Oh my God.
[00:13:48]  Nikki Hilton Rothschild.
[00:13:50]  I know.
[00:13:51]  Hates her sister.
[00:13:51]  I believe that.
[00:13:53]  That was incredible.
[00:13:54]  When I saw the big R word, I got a lot of favorite R words.
[00:13:58]  And when I saw that one roll up on the screen, first of all, it wasn't what I was expecting.
[00:14:02]  And second of all, I was thrilled to find that out.
[00:14:05]  I know the person I was watching it with, his eyes kind of like bugged out when the Rothschild name came.
[00:14:10]  Yeah, I was a big fan of that.
[00:14:12]  How many of them are there?
[00:14:13]  Like, can I get one?
[00:14:15]  I think, I don't know, man.
[00:14:17]  There's a lot.
[00:14:18]  Yeah.
[00:14:19]  Well, so, yeah, Nikki Hilton did not be overly impressed with her sister.
[00:14:25]  Every time she went to compliment, her sister would always end up saying like the meanest thing.

=== Paris Hilton's Complex Dynamics (03:52) ===

[00:14:30]  Like she'd be like, yeah, when we were children, like, you know, you have to understand like Paris was ugly and liked to be a boy.
[00:14:37]  And it was like, what?
[00:14:38]  Like, she would always like, she was always saying just like backhanded, weird compliments about her sister.
[00:14:43]  It was very interesting.
[00:14:45]  Interesting dynamic.
[00:14:46]  Also, Nikki Hilton, a little too much plastic surgery for my taste.
[00:14:51]  Huh.
[00:14:52]  I found both of them to be insanely hot.
[00:14:55]  Yeah, well, you love blondes.
[00:14:56]  Actually, I'll be, yeah, I do.
[00:14:58]  Yeah, blondes, redheads, all of them.
[00:15:00]  You know, we love, we love it.
[00:15:01]  We love a haired woman as somebody who early in his life, which we'll maybe get into later, early in his life, in his formative years, had sex with no less than three shaved-headed women before he was 18.
[00:15:14]  I'll tell you, any head of hair, fine with me.
[00:15:18]  But it was, it was strange.
[00:15:20]  One thing that, like, I think probably was pretty obvious that something like this would be in the documentary, though I was sort of surprised at the emphasis exactly it was given because, you know, this is supposed to be at the real Paris Hilton.
[00:15:32]  And she talks a lot about sort of this, like, this put-on she does, right?
[00:15:38]  This, like, this affectation.
[00:15:39]  She does the character of Paris.
[00:15:41]  And of course she does, right?
[00:15:42]  I mean, remember, like, I totally, totally wiped this out of my brain, but that, that TV show she did with Nicole Ritchie.
[00:15:49]  Yeah, that was like the simple life.
[00:15:51]  It was just them like at a farm pretending not to know what Walmart was.
[00:15:54]  When like they obviously do.
[00:15:56]  You hang out with the people who own it.
[00:15:58]  Like, you know what fucking Walmart is.
[00:16:01]  Yeah, or like that they didn't know how to clean, you know, clean a floor or a bathtub or whatever.
[00:16:08]  Yeah.
[00:16:08]  And I mean, and like, even at the time, I remember being like, this is obviously like not, it's a character, right?
[00:16:14]  Yeah, it's a TV show.
[00:16:16]  And like, it's, it's, it, it did go like quite a bit into like the character of Paris Hilton.
[00:16:23]  Yeah, I mean, that's what kind of seemed to hinge on this idea that, you know, her entire life or her entire public persona has been a presentation of a character that she's created named Paris, who is this like, you know, toxinist voice.
[00:16:44]  Okay, so actually, I was going to ask, I do need you to.
[00:16:48]  That wasn't really the voice.
[00:16:49]  Okay, let me see if I can do it.
[00:16:50]  It's like, she always says yes.
[00:16:53]  Did you notice that?
[00:16:54]  Can you be like, Brace, I will go to dinner with you.
[00:16:58]  I'm not going to say that.
[00:17:00]  Okay.
[00:17:00]  But she's like, that's hot.
[00:17:04]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:17:06]  Yes.
[00:17:07]  That's hot.
[00:17:09]  And it's like really, like, it's like the vocal fry.
[00:17:14]  Yeah.
[00:17:15]  Podcasting.
[00:17:16]  And you can hear it when you watch the, I mean, when you watch the movie, she, there's like moments where her voice is completely different.
[00:17:24]  And other, like, her sister comments on it and her mother comments on it.
[00:17:28]  And she comments on it during the day.
[00:17:29]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:17:30]  And she's like doing a mic check.
[00:17:31]  Yeah.
[00:17:32]  And we were talking about it earlier.
[00:17:33]  And I was saying what's really interesting is there will be points where it feels like she's about to, or she's like kind of in the middle of revealing something personal about herself.
[00:17:46]  And then suddenly that kind of, you know, high-pitched, gravelly voice comes in.
[00:17:53]  And you know, now she's back into like character mode or what she calls a mask throughout the film.
[00:18:00]  And so, okay, so whatever.
[00:18:02]  We're not here to like, we're not doing film criticism or whatever.
[00:18:06]  The big reveal and where this kind of this all goes is that, you know, Paris opens up that, and she says it's something that she's never talked about, but that she, that something, this is what she says, something happened in my childhood that I've never talked about with anyone.

=== Moments of Revelation (04:49) ===

[00:18:22]  I still have nightmares about it.
[00:18:23]  I wish I could bring a camera into my dreams and show you what it's like.
[00:18:27]  It's terrifying.
[00:18:28]  And I relive that every night.
[00:18:30]  I experienced it.
[00:18:30]  And to this day, I'm still traumatized.
[00:18:32]  And I think the only way to have these nightmares stop is to do something about it.
[00:18:35]  And so that's kind of the crux of the film.
[00:18:38]  And she details that when after she, her family moved to New York, when I think she was about 14, 15, and that's when she and her sister were kind of socialites, you know, splashed all over the tabloids,
[00:18:53]  you know, and she was out partying and being crazy, that after a couple years of being out all night and, you know, partying and drinking and, you know, whatever else, her parents sent her to a series of basically what's called like rehabilitate, not rehabilitation, educational centers for troubled kids.
[00:19:14]  And she details the kind of different schools that she was sent to and the amount of like physical and emotional abuse that she endured.
[00:19:25]  And in particular, she talks about a school called Provo Canyon School in Utah.
[00:19:32]  But she was sent to a series of other schools that she names, including one named Sidu, which I think we're going to talk about specifically in a little bit.
[00:19:40]  But it's pretty heartbreaking to watch.
[00:19:43]  You know, toward the end of the film, she has a bit of a reunion with some of her, like a former roommate and some former friends who were at Provo Canyon School with her while she was there.
[00:19:58]  And it's pretty intense as they're detailing the various forms of abuse that they endured, including what they call torture.
[00:20:08]  And I think that's correct.
[00:20:11]  You know, Paris says she was thrown in solitary confinement.
[00:20:15]  They were force-fed.
[00:20:16]  They were fed drugs to sedate them.
[00:20:20]  One woman alleges that she witnessed sexual abuse.
[00:20:25]  It's unclear if that was like herself or if she witnessed it to others, but it's a pretty harrowing story.
[00:20:33]  And it sort of makes, you know, I think we'll get into this later, but it makes the Creation of Paris, the character, Paris Hilton, that much more fascinating as a kind of PTSD response to what was, you know, months of child abuse.
[00:20:57]  Yeah, I mean, especially, so, so I've known the name Provocanya for like a long time.
[00:21:02]  Provo was very famous when I was a kid.
[00:21:05]  I've known people who've gone to Provoc Canyon.
[00:21:07]  And I was sort of surprised that Paris Hilton went there just because her family's so rich.
[00:21:14]  And so I was like, there's got to be, I mean, Provocanyan is not cheap by any means, but like it's, it's, I thought they would have sent her to like, there's like another tier or like fancier places to send her to.
[00:21:24]  But like everything that they, mentioned there is, it was Provocanyan's reputation basically among the, let's say, the, the troubled teen scene around the country.
[00:21:38]  And, you know, obviously, like, I mean, I've never really had an opinion on Paris Hilton.
[00:21:41]  She's just like, it's like having an opinion on Jake Paul or something.
[00:21:44]  I don't fucking care.
[00:21:45]  It's got nothing to do with me.
[00:21:46]  She's a rich person.
[00:21:47]  What, like, you know, there's a million of them.
[00:21:50]  But like, I think for me, probably more specifically, or more, more, more than maybe other people who watched it, I mean, I think it's, it's pretty impossible not to have empathy for her with watching it with this kind of stuff.
[00:22:02]  Because she describes, and like the, you know, if that's not enough for you, the regular people that she went there also describe, you know, the, the, the abuse and the sort of trauma-inducing just struggles that they had at these schools.
[00:22:17]  But, but connecting that with, with sort of the beginning or, or like more like the first, you know, half, three quarters of the documentary with this like Paris character, because, because it would be really easy to make it a documentary about basically any celebrity like this and be like, well, look, you know, they're wearing a mask.
[00:22:34]  It's, you know, it's, that's, they're, they're faking it.
[00:22:37]  Right, right.
[00:22:38]  It's like, this is the real me.
[00:22:39]  I mean, they do, you know, it's like, there's a kind of, you know, Taylor Swift had one and Lady Gaga had one.
[00:22:44]  There's kind of like a series of these celebu docs where they try to like reveal the true self to like, you know, shade their persona or whatever.
[00:22:55]  But this is a bit different.
[00:22:57]  I think the thing that was so fascinating about this with me is that even when she was trying, and you could tell, like, she was trying to reveal that true self, like when she talks to her mother and stuff like that, which is very awkward scene.
[00:23:10]  Totally awkward.

=== Federal vs. Private Schools (07:38) ===

[00:23:11]  And she still wasn't able to do it.
[00:23:13]  She lapses into the voice.
[00:23:14]  She becomes this character of Paris again.
[00:23:18]  And I think that like that's different from other sort of other outings in this field by other celebrities.
[00:23:26]  Because for a lot of people, they kind of can get through that, or at least they can fake it to seem like they can.
[00:23:33]  And with her, she couldn't.
[00:23:35]  I know that that is almost probably, well, I mean, I'm sure it's because of, you know, years and years and years of being in that character, but also like provo school.
[00:23:48]  Yeah.
[00:23:48]  And these schools in general, because they make you crazy.
[00:23:54]  I mean, I don't even know how to describe it.
[00:23:55]  They make you crazy.
[00:23:56]  Yeah, you mentioned what you, what you called the troubled teen industry.
[00:24:01]  And that's kind of like what we should kind of use that term.
[00:24:05]  Can we, let's walk through a little bit about what we're talking about here?
[00:24:08]  Because it's much bigger than just one school named Provo Canyon, right?
[00:24:13]  Like it is really an industry.
[00:24:16]  And it is a multi-billion dollar industry.
[00:24:19]  Yeah.
[00:24:19]  The best way to describe it is like a vast and highly, highly profitable network of programs, facilities, counselors, and kind of reinforcing like reinforcement surrounding that in terms of recruiters and loan sharks and bail bondsmen and all these sorts of different POs.
[00:24:44]  Yeah, there's all these different islands in this archipelago of the troubled teened industry, but they advertise treating, rehabilitating, reforming what we call troubled youth.
[00:24:56]  And they hinge on, you know, sometimes it's like rehab programs, but really it's kind of behavioral educational programs.
[00:25:07]  I remember they would call them behavioral modification facilities, therapeutic boarding schools, which is always such a banal name for what actually occurs at them.
[00:25:16]  Some like provo are called just straight up called lockdowns.
[00:25:19]  I mean, they don't call themselves that, but that's how they were kind of colloquially referred to.
[00:25:24]  Some are more like rehab.
[00:25:25]  Some they just call boarding schools, but they have very little, aside from the fact that you are a teenager away from your family, they have very little in, and you might get raped, they have very little in common with other kinds of boarding schools.
[00:25:39]  And what Liz is saying actually here is totally correct.
[00:25:41]  I mean, this is not just like a series of boarding schools or whatever, you know, dotted across America.
[00:25:48]  Some of them are connected, whatever, some aren't.
[00:25:50]  This is an entire industry that is like self-contained.
[00:25:54]  Like you, you can get set up from cradle to grave with them.
[00:25:59]  Like, you know, if you're, if your kid is, you know, if you want to send your kid away, you can go to a you can go to a consultant who will tell you what school to send them to.
[00:26:07]  That consultant is receiving kickbacks from the school.
[00:26:10]  They will tell you what transportation agency to use to take your kid there.
[00:26:13]  That transportation agency is getting kickbacks from the school and they are themselves doing kickbacks to the consultant.
[00:26:19]  They will take you to a wilderness program to sort of detox you from being a human being.
[00:26:24]  That is getting kickbacks from all the aforementioned.
[00:26:27]  And then finally at one of these schools, which is kicking back to everyone else.
[00:26:31]  And then there's loan officers who the consultants will hook you up with because, you know, your kid's going to die.
[00:26:38]  You want to save your kid, right?
[00:26:40]  And sort of use this blackmail on you to get you hooked into this.
[00:26:44]  Yeah, I mean, these schools, we should say, by the way, these schools cost some upwards of what, $3,000, $5,000 a week, some of them.
[00:26:50]  So they are by no means cheap.
[00:26:52]  Really crazy ones.
[00:26:52]  Yeah, I mean, there are some very affordable ones.
[00:26:57]  But it's an industry that really, really pumps money out of people.
[00:27:00]  And it's essentially a license to print money.
[00:27:02]  And it's really one of the, it's astoundingly unregulated.
[00:27:07]  Well, that's the thing is that there is actually no federal laws governing schools, meaning that the U.S. government can't forcibly close a privately owned boarding school or what we would call a treatment facility either.
[00:27:20]  Even if in the example of one called Old West Academy, where the founder and owner, Ben Train, was convicted of rape of a minor, even in the case of when even after people are convicted of rape, the U.S. government cannot shut it down.
[00:27:41]  There's no federal laws to do so.
[00:27:43]  And in fact, there was an attempt by Congress to pass a law to, you know, for some congressional oversight or federal oversight into these kinds of schools, including banning physical abuse and the withholding of food, which I think to any reasonable person is like, holy shit, that's not banned already.
[00:28:03]  No, it's not.
[00:28:05]  And it was opposed after lawmakers were, you know, basically they got, they were like, oh, I don't know, maybe that'll, that'll infringe on the states regulating their own thing, aka all of the lobbying that was being done by these privately funded schools to the federal lawmakers, right?
[00:28:24]  Yeah.
[00:28:24]  And it's funny, actually, little Adam Schiff has had a bill to try to regulate, little Adam Shit, excuse me, has had a bill.
[00:28:32]  No, I'll call him Schiff for this because this is good.
[00:28:34]  Has had a bill to try to regulate these schools out, which he didn't even write.
[00:28:38]  It was inherited from his predecessor in his seat.
[00:28:41]  So this bill has been floating around for a while and it gets no traction ever.
[00:28:46]  Like he puts it forward every time, shot down every time.
[00:28:48]  I'm sure he's not working over hard on it.
[00:28:50]  But like, it just goes to show that there is no impetus to actually told us, you know, a lot of these schools, again, I mean, Paris a school provo, that's in Utah.
[00:29:01]  And Utah in particular as a state has very, very, very little government oversight for privately owned schools.
[00:29:09]  And in fact, I'm shocked by that.
[00:29:12]  Well, you know, look, I'll just say that, well, it's not just that, but also, I mean, some of these organizations have pumped in a lot of fucking money into people like Mitt Romney and the Romney family, who's been there for a very long time, is very influential in Utah.
[00:29:30]  And they, in order to not receive a lot of government oversight on these basically what are work camps.
[00:29:37]  Funny you mentioned old Mitt.
[00:29:39]  Bain Capital actually has a large financial stake.
[00:29:46]  This isn't an episode necessarily dedicated to this, but I have looked into this before.
[00:29:50]  Is Bain Capital actually has a lot of, let's say, financial entanglements with a lot of these schools too.
[00:29:55]  They own a lot of, I mean, these are highly, this is a highly profitable industry and they own a lot of them.
[00:30:01]  I will say, like you mentioned, Utah there, like a lot of the times you'll see that these schools are located in places that are, let's say, less than populous, right?
[00:30:10]  Montana is a big place.
[00:30:13]  The Oregon wilderness is a big place.
[00:30:15]  Utah, sometimes, but not as much in Colorado.
[00:30:20]  But you don't see a lot in like Southern California, for instance, or New York State or anything like that.
[00:30:26]  And that's partially because these schools have a sort of bolstering effect on the economies of the places they go to.
[00:30:34]  So you'll often find them in small towns in Idaho, in Montana, and stuff like that.
[00:30:39]  And people are much less likely to ask questions if all of a sudden millions of dollars are being imported into a community of like previously 500 people, right?
[00:30:48]  And people are getting jobs.

=== Why Parents Go Debt-Bound (06:08) ===

[00:30:49]  Exactly.
[00:30:50]  People are getting jobs.
[00:30:51]  I mean, that is a big thing.
[00:30:54]  Sandpoint, Idaho has like, I don't know how many, but like 20 or 30 schools in the surrounding radius, both in Idaho and in Montana.
[00:31:02]  And I mean, it's a huge part of the local economy.
[00:31:05]  But, you know, speaking of oversight, in Montana, for instance, there is an oversight board that's supposed that's dedicated apparently, well, in name, to overseeing these schools, but it's staffed entirely by the owners of these schools.
[00:31:17]  You know, it's one article.
[00:31:20]  It functions very, like, very, very similarly to the private prison industry.
[00:31:26]  I mean, it's, it's almost a one-for-one analogy.
[00:31:29]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:31:29]  Like, it's, it's, and it's, it, it, in, I, you know, it's good you say private prison there because I think the best way to view these things, you know, they call themselves boarding schools, but if you lay down the facts on a piece of paper and you put them up next to a regular boarding school's fax or you put them up next to a private prison's fax, they are one-to-one with these prisons.
[00:31:49]  You know, you can't leave.
[00:31:50]  You can't, you have all your rights stripped from you.
[00:31:53]  You are able to be beaten, starved, placed in solitary confinement.
[00:31:56]  You might be raped, you might be murdered.
[00:31:58]  And everything you do and everyone you talk to and every action you take is monitored at all times.
[00:32:05]  Yeah, and this is children, right?
[00:32:07]  Exactly.
[00:32:08]  And children too, like, you know, we talk about troubled teens and like, you know, okay, you know, some teens get addicted to drugs, of course, you know, blah, blah, blah.
[00:32:18]  But like, I knew a lot of kids growing up who were not addicted to drugs, who might just be maybe failing at school, who might be, you know, somewhat antisocial, who might be, in one case, one person I know, literally just autistic, like not even just like, not even a troublemaker, just actually just like an autistic person who had trouble making friends, but wasn't like a bad in any conceivable way.
[00:32:45]  And their parents.
[00:32:47]  Send them there to in whatever way they think to fix them.
[00:32:50]  And the parents often go into debt.
[00:32:53]  And when you go into debt, I mean, this is, you see this case a lot with American workers.
[00:32:57]  You go into debt and you get this weird psychological fealty to the regime that you sort of bought into.
[00:33:04]  Well, it's not just that.
[00:33:05]  I mean, I do want to like pause here for a second too, because I mean, you mentioned the like kind of, you know, the range of people that get sent to these places.
[00:33:13]  And it's like, you know, the parents get targeted by these schools just as much.
[00:33:20]  I mean, not just as much, but they, but they really do get targeted by these schools.
[00:33:24]  You know, counselors who get kickbacks, like you mentioned, to buy these private, you know, I don't even fucking know what to call them.
[00:33:37]  I don't want to call them schools.
[00:33:38]  They're not schools.
[00:33:39]  You know what I mean?
[00:33:40]  But these facilities, like misrepresent them.
[00:33:44]  And then, you know, I've read testimonies from parents who said they go to visit their kids at these facilities and purposefully, like the director will find a kid there who, as we're going to get into, is, you know, I'd say very brainwashed and beaten down, who happened to live like a couple towns away from the mother and is there to like guide her through.
[00:34:06]  And she thinks everything is fine and normal and doesn't see anything.
[00:34:10]  And they are, you know, largely, for the most part, kept out of, you know, the light.
[00:34:16]  They have no idea what's going on with their kids.
[00:34:19]  In a lot of cases, I mean, I mean, in the documentary, it showed that Paris Hilton like finally told her mother about the abuses going on there or whatever.
[00:34:27]  That was a very, again, awkward scene.
[00:34:29]  Or like her mother's finally informed of that.
[00:34:31]  And sort of refused to believe it.
[00:34:35]  Like said they didn't know at first.
[00:34:36]  And it's such a strange sort of interaction because the way these schools function is, and I'm not being hyperbolic with any of this, is from basically the moment you set foot into this world, the baseline is that, is that your child is going to die.
[00:34:54]  And I'm not saying that as in like exaggerating or anything.
[00:34:57]  Yeah, that's like that's how they position it.
[00:34:59]  They say, if you don't come here and let us do this, your kid is going to die.
[00:35:03]  And when you, and when someone, when you're a parent and someone with who you believe has authority, however that's been vested, is telling you that, and that those are the stakes, then you're going to do whatever it takes to make sure that doesn't happen.
[00:35:17]  Exactly.
[00:35:18]  And then, you know, you drop your kid off or you have your kid kidnapped.
[00:35:21]  And, you know, six months later, you go to visit them and they are wearing, you know, a t-shirt tucked into khakis and smiling this sort of uneven smile.
[00:35:31]  Yeah.
[00:35:31]  They got some short hair, finally a good haircut, not wearing any makeup.
[00:35:37]  And, you know, they're, of course, they're being monitored, but they're telling you how happy they are and how hard it is, but, you know, how good it is for them.
[00:35:45]  And maybe you have a phone call with them every two weeks and, you know, they talk maybe a little uncertainly about how well they're doing and how much they're learning and stuff like this.
[00:35:55]  I mean, you want to believe that because the alternative is, is that this place is fucked, which means this is your last resort.
[00:36:01]  And if this doesn't work, your child is going to die.
[00:36:03]  And people, you know, I think there are ample examples throughout history.
[00:36:09]  People are willing to do a lot for their kids, even if it's the wrong thing.
[00:36:15]  Yeah.
[00:36:16]  I mean, I do, I feel like we haven't really, I don't know how much, I mean, I encourage people to watch the film and, you know, I think we'll probably link to some articles that have firsthand testimony here.
[00:36:30]  But I do want to like be very clear that like what we're like, these, these kids that go to these places are abused like routinely.
[00:36:38]  And it's, it's, um, you know, it's not just physical and, you know, horrifically sexual abuse, but also like a form of like mental abuse that I don't really, I can't even fully understand where it like seeks to like break people down, right?

=== Cinanon: A Cult's Dark Reality (15:23) ===

[00:36:58]  Oh, that's that, that's precisely it.
[00:36:59]  Yeah.
[00:37:01]  And, you know, there have been cases, multiple, multiple, like way too many to count cases of kids dying on properties with basically the cause of death being not investigated or covered up by local authorities, sexual assaults all over the place.
[00:37:20]  You know, there were a couple cases of schools that were actually outside U.S. jurisdiction that were operating, which by the way is so fucking insane when you just say that out loud.
[00:37:32]  Yeah.
[00:37:32]  But there was one Tranquility Bay that was in Jamaica, which it was closed in 2009 after multiple claims of torture, sexual and physical abuse, unsanitary living conditions, and denial of health care.
[00:37:47]  There was one Casa by the Sea, which was in Mexico.
[00:37:50]  Wow, this is bringing back some memories.
[00:37:52]  Yeah.
[00:37:52]  And the Academy at Dundee Ranch, which was in Costa Rica.
[00:37:56]  And they were both closed after random government inspections found abuse and torture which was leading to a student revolt.
[00:38:06]  Yes.
[00:38:06]  I mean, it's Tranquility Bay in particular was famous when I was younger.
[00:38:11]  And I knew a girl who had gone to Tranquility Bay.
[00:38:14]  And she was so fucked up.
[00:38:16]  I mean, this woman might as well have survived the Holocaust.
[00:38:18]  You know, she was like, you looked and she had a fucking 10 billion yard stare from it.
[00:38:24]  And if you look up pictures of Tranquility Bay and the people there, they look like they are prisoners.
[00:38:31]  I mean, it looks like, what's that Midnight Express movie?
[00:38:33]  I mean, they're wearing basically large prison garb, you know, oversized prison garb.
[00:38:39]  And they're shuffling around in concrete buildings.
[00:38:41]  Tranquility Bay in particular is part of this program, or excuse me, this sort of consortium called WASP.
[00:38:47]  So WASP, it's WOWASP.
[00:38:50]  It's the worldwide association of specialty programs and schools, of course, based in Utah.
[00:38:57]  It was started, I believe, by a guy named Robert Litchfield, who had formerly owned a like mini mart in Southern California, had no training with psychology, with children, anything like that.
[00:39:06]  I mean, he was literally just the guy who owned like the gas station, gas station beer store down the street.
[00:39:13]  It ballooned up into a multi, multi, multi, multi-million dollar industry, or excuse me, like basically self-contained industry, like that that contained all the stuff we were talking about earlier.
[00:39:23]  Escorts, well, okay, that has some connotations now.
[00:39:26]  Transporters, also connotations, but sort of in a cool movie way.
[00:39:32]  You know, they have, they have loan officers, everything like that.
[00:39:35]  Let me just, they operated Tranquility Bay.
[00:39:37]  Let me just really quickly go into a few of the schools that they had.
[00:39:41]  They had the Academy at Dundee Ranch, which Liz mentioned, raided by authorities on May 22nd, 2003.
[00:39:46]  Academy at Ivory Ridge in New York closed in early 2009 due to accreditation issues.
[00:39:51]  Bell Academy in California shut down in 2003 after issues with state social services.
[00:39:56]  Bethel Academy shut down in 2005 after state officials investigate reports of abuse.
[00:40:01]  And then just on and on and on and on, investigating and shut down by the Mexican government after allegations of abuse, raided by Mexican authorities in 2004.
[00:40:10]  I mean, just every single place they've had, essentially, there's one that is still open, it looks like Sunset Bay Academy in Mexico.
[00:40:17]  But almost all of these have been raided by, oftentimes, by governments in other countries that they've gone to to escape notice over allegations of abuse.
[00:40:25]  And I can tell you, abuse is rampant at these places.
[00:40:29]  I mean, I can't even find out numbers, really like credible numbers, just because it's, it's, I mean, it's in the thousands, at least thousands for sexual abuse.
[00:40:42]  For deaths, I don't know.
[00:40:43]  But I mean, it's basically impossible to me that it's not in the thousands.
[00:40:48]  And in some of these, like kids have to literally be rescued by like the special forces of Costa Rica or whatever, the SWAT teams at Costa Rica.
[00:40:55]  It's incredible.
[00:40:56]  And this is an industry that thrived and is still thriving.
[00:41:00]  And they always, the thing about WASP especially is that these schools will close down.
[00:41:05]  They will get shut down.
[00:41:07]  And then because there's almost no regulation, they will reopen on the same grounds with a different name, same owner.
[00:41:14]  Yeah.
[00:41:15]  Oftentimes the same kids.
[00:41:18]  It's insane.
[00:41:19]  It's absolutely insane.
[00:41:20]  Wasp is one facet of it, but to really get to like, to see where the genesis of a lot of this came from, we actually have to go all the way back to Synanon.
[00:41:30]  Oof.
[00:41:31]  Now, that's sort of a like, I don't know, cue the music.
[00:41:37]  Like, you know, you say Synanon and anyone who has any kind of vague understanding of California history might, like, their eyes might light up.
[00:41:45]  Like, whoa.
[00:41:47]  Yes.
[00:41:48]  Synanon is kind of like the, um, I don't know, the, the, the, the big mother of all kind of, I don't know, a lot of, a lot of really dark shit stems out of Cynanon.
[00:42:03]  Let's just put it that way.
[00:42:04]  And California's history specifically.
[00:42:07]  It is, it is.
[00:42:08]  I remember, I remember when I was, when I was an adult and I was in a rehab facility, a counselor of mine had gone to Cinanon.
[00:42:14]  And when I mentioned it, he like, I mean, he was, this was a normal facility.
[00:42:19]  Like, this was not like a creepy facility or whatever.
[00:42:21]  And the guy just sort of broke down.
[00:42:22]  I mean, he'd been abducted by them as a teenager in Los Angeles after he gotten addicted to heroin.
[00:42:27]  They literally took him in a van off the streets and abducted him.
[00:42:31]  And he had heard stories about people being there shortly before him dying.
[00:42:36]  Because Synanon used to do stuff like, well, before I get ahead of myself, Cinanon was started by a guy named Chuck Diedrick Sr. in, I think, the late 50s.
[00:42:47]  There's actually a movie that Hollywood made about Synanon that's sort of like a sexploitation movie, but that's pro-Synanon.
[00:42:55]  That's really wild.
[00:42:56]  It's on YouTube.
[00:42:59]  Maybe if I can find a clip from it right after, we should include it because it is totally absurd.
[00:43:06]  Certainly I'll link to the trailer.
[00:43:08]  It started out.
[00:43:09]  So this guy was a member of AA.
[00:43:13]  And AA is oftentimes described as a cult.
[00:43:16]  And, you know, in a way, okay, maybe that's a little true.
[00:43:18]  But if it's a cult, it's the most benign one there is because you don't have to give anyone any money and you don't have to get a haircut.
[00:43:25]  But he decided that AA was too pussy.
[00:43:29]  Whereas some of us might think that sometimes you actually have to do a little too much of it sometimes.
[00:43:35]  And sometimes it does ask too much of you, like going to some, anyways.
[00:43:39]  So he's the guy.
[00:43:43]  Apparently, and I read this.
[00:43:44]  It's also on their Wikipedia.
[00:43:46]  I don't know if I believe this.
[00:43:47]  He's apparently the guy who came up with the phrase, today is the first day of the rest of your life.
[00:43:53]  I don't believe that.
[00:43:54]  Yeah, it seems like a load of bullshit.
[00:43:56]  How did no one come up with that before like the 60s?
[00:43:59]  Yeah, come on.
[00:44:00]  But this place was like, yeah.
[00:44:03]  Well, it started out as like a rehab facility where like junkies would kind of give this tough love to other junkies and they would all live at the same place.
[00:44:10]  You never, listen, a little advice to listeners here.
[00:44:12]  I haven't given this in a while.
[00:44:13]  Do not move to a compound.
[00:44:15]  Yeah, never.
[00:44:17]  Never move to a second medication.
[00:44:19]  Do not, except if it's with me.
[00:44:23]  Well, okay.
[00:44:25]  We're keeping that in.
[00:44:28]  I like, just to get into Cinnanon, though, for a second, I like this is that Gizmodo put it as, it was a tyrant's ant farm masquerading as a grand experiment with the good life.
[00:44:39]  That's pretty good.
[00:44:40]  Which I thought was pretty good.
[00:44:43]  It is one of the most deranged sort of pieces of California.
[00:44:48]  All those, like, all the sort of like meme stuff you have in your head about like California cults, you know, shaved heads, all that stuff.
[00:44:56]  That all happened at Cinnanon.
[00:44:59]  Yeah, it basically went from like sort of the kind of treating, quote unquote, treating substance abuse, right?
[00:45:08]  To then forcing people into abortions, divorces, head shavings, vasectomies, group sex, you know, partner swap bag, everyone's sleeping with the, you know, with Charles, et cetera.
[00:45:24]  Chuck.
[00:45:24]  Oh, yeah.
[00:45:25]  They love, people love fucking, well, actually, I think they actually don't like it, but founders of places like this love fucking everybody that comes to the door.
[00:45:33]  And it caught on.
[00:45:35]  I mean, one thing that was always sort of floated about in my, in my conversations with people about Cinanon is that they would, they would take junkies off the streets of LA and they would inject them with potassium in the hopes of curing their heroin addiction.
[00:45:49]  It did cure them.
[00:45:50]  Not of that.
[00:45:51]  Well, technically, all right.
[00:45:52]  So if you die, you technically are no longer a heroin addict.
[00:45:55]  And so I do sort of see the science with that.
[00:45:58]  Not so sure about the long-term stuff from it.
[00:46:01]  The only thing that you can inject to cure heroin addiction is just more heroin.
[00:46:08]  Or whatever, Vivitrol, I guess.
[00:46:10]  I had Vivitrol before.
[00:46:11]  Anyways, so it's, I mean, it became more deranged and more and more and more deranged as time went on.
[00:46:17]  Yeah, Cinanon, I mean, it was a cult.
[00:46:19]  It was just like a straight up fucking cult.
[00:46:22]  And I mean, he had like, at one point, didn't he have like a militia or rumors that he had a militia going?
[00:46:28]  Of course they had a militia.
[00:46:30]  I mean, it was like a crazy compound, crazy cult.
[00:46:36]  And it spawned.
[00:46:37]  It basically spawned.
[00:46:38]  I mean, the reason why we have to talk about it is because it spawned out of it all these other organizations.
[00:46:45]  Yeah.
[00:46:46]  So Cinanon was very influential on the southern California, I guess, scene for people.
[00:46:54]  I mean, remember, like Cinnanon started in the late 50s, but it really flowered in the 60s.
[00:46:59]  And out of it, a guy named Mel Wasserman started a his, he was like, you know what, this cult thing is great, but he had a bit of a schism.
[00:47:08]  Was he was higher up in the Cinnanon organization, which a little other thing here, too.
[00:47:13]  Cynanon also got in a lot of trouble for putting poisonous snakes in journalist mailboxes, including one guy that my dad knew, which is, you know, I have some trouble reconciling that fact, but some others that we'll talk about.
[00:47:25]  And also, if you've seen the George Lucas movie THX1138, there are some scenes in, I believe, the BART tunnels, and there are a lot of extras with shaved heads.
[00:47:34]  Those are all actual Cynanon cult members.
[00:47:37]  All actual ones that were.
[00:47:38]  Cinnanon, of course, later changed its name to the Church of Synodon.
[00:47:41]  We should, we'll talk more about Synodon in another episode.
[00:47:43]  This isn't really about them.
[00:47:44]  This is just a background.
[00:47:46]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:47:47]  So these guys, these guys leave Cinnanon.
[00:47:52]  This guy named Mel Wasserman and his sort of followers and decide to sort of start their own organization that is pretty much a carbon copy of Cynanon.
[00:48:01]  And we see that a lot in this industry is sort of these schisms and split.
[00:48:05]  It's like with Trotskyist groups.
[00:48:07]  It's like, there's like Committee for the Fourth International.
[00:48:10]  There's like the Provisional Committee for the Fourth International.
[00:48:12]  There's the Fourth International itself.
[00:48:14]  There's a reconstituted Fourth International.
[00:48:15]  It's like, don't you guys all just like, I mean, is Tariq Ali, isn't he in like all of your groups?
[00:48:22]  I don't really see what the difference here is.
[00:48:24]  And that was the case with CDU, but See Doo does something that's that I think was really smart, which was start figuring out how to make a lot more money.
[00:48:34]  Yeah, so listeners might remember this name See Do because I mentioned that that is one of the schools that Paris in the documentary says she was sent to.
[00:48:43]  Right?
[00:48:44]  And CDU, by the way, is named after Chuck Diedrich.
[00:48:50]  His initials are like C E D.
[00:48:52]  Oh my God, I just got that.
[00:48:54]  Yeah, and the U, I think, stands for like university.
[00:48:56]  They later said, changed it and pretended to say it was just called C Doo and have like, there is, it doesn't stand for anything, but, but it was, it was, it was named after Chuck Diedrich.
[00:49:04]  Yeah.
[00:49:05]  So C Doo really builds itself as one of these educational behavioral modification facilities, but directly comes out of and repeats the same tactics and practices as Cinanon did.
[00:49:19]  Like you said, Wasserman was a complete devotee of Chuck's.
[00:49:24]  Yeah, and as we see a lot in these schools, is that Wasserman, Wasserman is not like a psychologist.
[00:49:31]  Wasserman is not like a guy that is a teacher or knows anything about kids.
[00:49:37]  He owned a fucking furniture store and he starts hosting these CDU groups in his home.
[00:49:42]  And then he starts a school.
[00:49:45]  And this is there, it becomes eventually a Byzantine network of a Byzantine, I don't know, whatever.
[00:49:53]  Byzantine.
[00:49:53]  I'm thinking of Byzantium, which like Lemuria is where this podcast is recorded at.
[00:49:59]  That becomes like really complicated.
[00:50:00]  Some had CDO in the name.
[00:50:01]  Some sort of hide their affiliation with CDU.
[00:50:05]  But it was, it was, it became probably the most influential school like this in history.
[00:50:11]  I mean, its methods, C-Doo, like I was joking about in the intro, like the Sex Pistols concert that all these people started banstering.
[00:50:18]  See, do is that Sex Pistols conference.
[00:50:20]  Yeah.
[00:50:21]  Or concert.
[00:50:22]  Sex Pistols conference.
[00:50:24]  Every single, like a school like this, basically every place we've mentioned would not have been possible, constituted in the form that it was constituted without CDU, without Wasserman.
[00:50:34]  Which means that, by the way, none of these schools would exist in their form if they were not conditioned by the practices of the cult Synanon.
[00:50:44]  Yes, exactly.
[00:50:45]  I mean, there is, it's not even like a tangled web or anything.
[00:50:48]  It is literally a direct line.
[00:50:50]  Yeah, it's like a family tree.
[00:50:51]  Think of it that way.
[00:50:52]  It's a family tree.
[00:50:53]  And at the top, you've got, you know, King Lear, who is the fucking Synanon, right?
[00:51:00]  And it just slows on down.
[00:51:02]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:51:03]  And they retain basically all of the same practices.
[00:51:06]  I mean, it is, it is astounding that if you look at the documents between these schools, like from these schools that exist now and from Synanon or C-Doo, they are the exact same practices with minimal modifications.
[00:51:19]  I mean, it worked.
[00:51:20]  But the thing is, like, what does it work to do?
[00:51:22]  It doesn't work to make your kid good.
[00:51:23]  It makes to work, it works to make your kid traumatized, brainwashed, and fucked up.
[00:51:31]  Psychology today, at one point, called C-Doo similar to Zimbardo's prison experiment or Jim Jones' Guiana.
[00:51:40]  I mean, these are cults.
[00:51:43]  I think that you just brought up a point about brainwashing.
[00:51:46]  And I think that's important because there is another great quote.
[00:51:49]  Well, great, being a, you know, being a little facetious there, from Diedrich about from Synanon, where he says, brainwashing is a very apt term.
[00:52:01]  We get very dirty brains in here.
[00:52:04]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:52:05]  And like, you know, that's become less fashionable to speak like that.
[00:52:08]  You know, in the 60s, it was like this sort of like, hey, I'm being upfront with you.
[00:52:11]  I'm rapping with you kind of stuff.
[00:52:13]  They, of course, mask it behind more in vogue language now, but the meaning is precisely the same.
[00:52:20]  Yeah.

=== Put Me On A Plane (07:15) ===

[00:52:21]  And it seems like, I mean, I don't think it's difficult, perhaps if some of our listeners have watched the Paris documentary.
[00:52:29]  And I, you know, I think everyone should, I think you guys should watch it.
[00:52:32]  I think it's a good, it's a good watch.
[00:52:34]  Yeah, I'd say so.
[00:52:36]  And, you know, her invoking this like creation of the character Paris directly after going through this experience at Provo and this series of CDU schools and sido-like schools that practice intense mental abuse to the point of what I think you can call brainwashing and breaking down the ego or whatever, ego death, as people call it.
[00:53:03]  Like, I don't think that that's a coincidence.
[00:53:05]  The creation of this character is directly coming out of that, right?
[00:53:10]  No, yeah, I would say it was like shocking how well I just like intuitively basically understood exactly everything that she was talking about.
[00:53:20]  Well, not often, yeah.
[00:53:23]  I mean, we should, I, you know, I don't know.
[00:53:25]  I think we should talk about this because you actually have a bit more of a personal connection here.
[00:53:30]  Yes, I uh, I think I've hinted at it or maybe talked about it a little in shows before.
[00:53:38]  Um, I don't exactly hide the fact, although I don't often like really advertise it that much.
[00:53:43]  But, but I went to a CDU school, and in fact, I went to a school that was started by the first graduate of Rocky Mountain Academy, which was one of the first like major CDU schools.
[00:53:53]  Uh, the headmaster who who also started the school that I went to, his father was Dan Earl, who was the first headmaster of Rocky Mountain Academy, and basically like the Goebbels to Wasserman's Hitler.
[00:54:05]  Um, and and I mean, I mean, in every single way, except for financially, this was a CDU school.
[00:54:14]  The same exact program, the same exact sort of rules, the same exact punishments, everything else came straight from C Doo.
[00:54:22]  So, I think my experience is pretty typical for a lot of people.
[00:54:26]  So, you know, without without getting too bogged down in details, I can start at the beginning.
[00:54:30]  When I was 13 or 12, I was in some minor trouble with some kids.
[00:54:36]  I've talked about this on the show before.
[00:54:37]  Someone accidentally burned down a hill with some fireworks.
[00:54:40]  I got busted for it and blamed for it.
[00:54:43]  And they found graffiti that I'd written brace rules in crayon in an abandoned slots fucking hardware.
[00:54:50]  In crayons that I found there.
[00:54:52]  I was not that much of a baby.
[00:54:53]  I didn't have the crayons on me.
[00:54:54]  Spray paint, you little boy.
[00:54:56]  Crayon.
[00:54:57]  I found them in there, man.
[00:54:58]  We were smoking salvia out of apples from Gordon.
[00:55:01]  That is so gentle.
[00:55:03]  They brought me into the, they brought me into the interrogation room.
[00:55:05]  Check this out.
[00:55:06]  They brought me into the interrogation room and they laid out like whatever, 12 by 17, like black and white glossy photographs of brace rules written in crayon.
[00:55:14]  I was just one of those.
[00:55:15]  Me too.
[00:55:16]  And I was just like, I don't know.
[00:55:17]  They're like, is this you?
[00:55:18]  I'm like, uh, yeah.
[00:55:20]  Like, am I in trouble for that?
[00:55:22]  Like, I, I couldn't comprehend that I was in trouble for writing on the inside of an abandoned building with something that could be wiped off with spit.
[00:55:29]  But I was.
[00:55:30]  And I got put on pretty, uh, you know, for the crime, not a great probationary contract.
[00:55:38]  And I got, I got, you know, kicked out of a high school and I wasn't doing super great in the other, the next high school I was going to.
[00:55:45]  And about four months into that, behind the scenes, I guess my parents were really concerned because they had read something online about these, you know, schools that could help their kids.
[00:55:55]  I wasn't, I never had great grades.
[00:55:56]  I have, I guess, I have some kind of bad learning disorders or whatever.
[00:56:01]  So I was never like doing, I never did well in any sort of school.
[00:56:07]  And one night in the middle of the night, two guys, this was crazy because remember this part of the Paris Hilton documentary.
[00:56:14]  Yeah, Dr. Paris.
[00:56:15]  Yeah, she says this.
[00:56:16]  And I was like watching it and thinking about you.
[00:56:18]  And I'm just, it's like a mirror image.
[00:56:23]  One night, you know, I was just, and remind, mind you, I think I had maybe just turned 14 or maybe I was still 13.
[00:56:30]  I can't remember.
[00:56:31]  But two big ass fucking guys bust into my room at my parents' house and turn on the light at maybe, I think, three in the morning.
[00:56:40]  And they say, get out of bed.
[00:56:42]  You're coming to fuck with us.
[00:56:43]  Like, get up.
[00:56:45]  And I think, I mean, this is not an uncommon story.
[00:56:48]  This happens to a lot of people.
[00:56:49]  These guys are called escorts.
[00:56:51]  That's what we used to call them back then.
[00:56:52]  I mean, I think for this, I will call them transporters, whatever.
[00:56:56]  And I was terrified.
[00:56:58]  I mean, that was, it was two big guys come into my room to take me away.
[00:57:02]  I mean, that's like a fucking nightmare, right?
[00:57:05]  And I get up and I'm like, well, you know, my dad's there and he's crying.
[00:57:09]  And I'm like, well, can I take anything with me?
[00:57:11]  Like, what also, what is going on?
[00:57:14]  They, they said no.
[00:57:16]  I grabbed my disc man secretly and put it in.
[00:57:19]  I had a disc man with a little CD book.
[00:57:21]  I think I had an adolescent CD.
[00:57:23]  And they put me on a plane with them.
[00:57:26]  My dad is like hysterical.
[00:57:27]  And I'm like, okay, well, I'm the one getting fucking kidnapped here.
[00:57:31]  I realize I'm not being kidnapped, but this is one thing that's really common is they didn't tell me where I was going.
[00:57:36]  Yeah.
[00:57:37]  And they didn't tell me what's going on.
[00:57:39]  I've, I've, I've, some listeners wrote in.
[00:57:42]  I asked on Twitter if anyone had a similar experience.
[00:57:45]  Some listeners wrote in and you know, I heard stories about everyone for people being, you know, restrained the entire way, handcuffed when I was threatened with handcuffs later in this journey.
[00:57:56]  People had their, they have, you know, these are children, mind you, who haven't committed a crime or anything.
[00:58:03]  They have their hands restrained by, you know, sometimes like computer wire and stuff like that.
[00:58:09]  You know, you don't have to have a license to become like an escort or a transporter.
[00:58:12]  These aren't like off-duty cops or whatever.
[00:58:14]  These are just like goons.
[00:58:17]  And they put me on a plane to Portland with them.
[00:58:20]  We get there in the middle of this insane snowstorm.
[00:58:23]  Maybe it's December.
[00:58:24]  And they put me on another plane, which they don't join me to, to Bend, Oregon.
[00:58:29]  They just put me on there.
[00:58:30]  The plane gets turned around on the runway.
[00:58:32]  And by the way, I still have no idea where I'm going.
[00:58:35]  They refuse to speak to me.
[00:58:37]  And I'm off and I'm 13 years old.
[00:58:40]  I'm wearing a t-shirt.
[00:58:41]  It's fucking, you know, December 20th in Portland.
[00:58:44]  And I call my dad and I'm like, what the hell's going on?
[00:58:47]  You know, I'm freaking out.
[00:58:49]  It's 5 a.m.
[00:58:50]  And he's like, oh, wait there.
[00:58:52]  You know, he kind of puts me off.
[00:58:53]  And then like 20 minutes later, a mustachioed man who kind of looks like, in my head, he kind of looks like Kenny Powers.
[00:59:03]  Although I don't know if that's true.
[00:59:04]  And this sort of bimbo that he's with.
[00:59:06]  You know, a pair of bimbos come up and they're like, oh, you're brace.
[00:59:10]  You're coming with us.
[00:59:11]  And because no planes could fly, they drove me for about 15 hours.
[00:59:16]  We stopped at a motel.
[00:59:17]  The guy shows, he has a gun and he has handcuffs and he's like, he keeps referring to the lady that's with him as his therapist.
[00:59:26]  They have sex next to me in the motel and then they take me the next day yeah, they're like screaming at me the whole time send me the next day to uh, a wilderness.

=== Brat Camp Reality (04:39) ===

[00:59:36]  And so we didn't really talk about wildernesses, do you?
[00:59:40]  I mean, i'm sure you guys knew kids who got sent away to that kind of shit right, like outward bound.
[00:59:45]  No, oh well, wildernesses are like sort of like the detox to the therapeutic boarding schools, rehab.
[00:59:53]  They send you to a uh, like the wilderness for like one to three months.
[00:59:58]  You are stripped of whatever, everything you're meant to survive.
[01:00:01]  It's like semi-therapeutic, but really it's just like detoxing you from society.
[01:00:05]  Right, some are better than others.
[01:00:06]  Uh, outward bound is not a that's the one i've heard.
[01:00:09]  Yeah, that's one i've heard of, but it's not.
[01:00:11]  That's more like a camp.
[01:00:12]  Yeah yeah yeah yeah uh, a lot of the wildernesses, they all.
[01:00:16]  This is really funny, though.
[01:00:17]  So maybe in the new you know, it's sort of they may, they may be, not be they may they they, they.
[01:00:23]  I don't know how to explain this, but you know like native Americans, like indigenous people of America.
[01:00:30]  Sure you know how, like certain white people, when they encounter like native Americans, like or like they encounter the idea of native Americans, it drives them insane and they become like weird Dole-a-zol native Americans and like, pretend to be really spiritual but like it's like, have you encountered this is like a more southwestern thing okay, but like white people who are like I, like I do the native practices and, like you know, I love sage and all this stuff.
[01:00:57]  My, my place was exactly like this was like a bunch of people doing like native American cosplay but also hitting us.
[01:01:04]  Uh, they would restrain the shit out of us.
[01:01:05]  It was in the middle of the dolls in Oregon.
[01:01:07]  Yeah okay, wait.
[01:01:08]  So let's pause for a second.
[01:01:10]  So you show up, you've just been driven to this place in Oregon.
[01:01:16]  Yeah i'm, i'm.
[01:01:17]  I'm then strip searched and I have to squat and cough.
[01:01:20]  Okay.
[01:01:21]  So you're strip searched.
[01:01:24]  Then, I mean, we don't need to go like piece by piece, but suffice to say that like you also endured something quite similar to what Paris did.
[01:01:35]  Yeah.
[01:01:36]  And they blindfelt folded me and drove me several hours into the desert and dropped me off.
[01:01:41]  Sagewalk actually got shut down later.
[01:01:44]  They made a sort of hagiographic, I think that's the word to use, TV show about it called Brat Camp, which in fact, we could cue the war crime song named Brat Camp right here, which I assume I own the rights to.
[01:01:57]  Red Camp 1, 2, 3, 4 I've got to go Where to go Don't mind me Why not I'm ready I can stop Call One right ticket straight to hell.
[01:02:19]  Come on, boy, don't send me.
[01:02:21]  More important therapy.
[01:02:25]  Back up, fuck it, fuck it, fuck it, don't.
[01:02:29]  They made this TV show that was literally just like as far from reality as like Paris Hilton's TV show was to reality about it.
[01:02:36]  It was an advertisement for it.
[01:02:38]  But it got shut down, I think, like five or six years later because they killed two kids.
[01:02:45]  One by choking him to death with the restraint and the other by withholding insulin as a form of punishment.
[01:02:53]  Jesus Christ.
[01:02:54]  Yeah, they said he just collapsed and died, but that's not what actually happened.
[01:02:57]  Wait, when you say restraints, like what do you mean?
[01:03:00]  So this is something I've known about for a while because I've known people who got sent to different places when I was younger.
[01:03:05]  And, you know, I was a bad kid.
[01:03:07]  So I've been restrained a couple of times in my life.
[01:03:08]  I wasn't actually that bad of a kid.
[01:03:09]  But restraints are like when you are acting out and not like, I should stress, it does not have to be you physically acting out.
[01:03:20]  You could be verbally defiant or silent.
[01:03:23]  And what they do is, you know, you're a child and then a large person or up to, I think Paris Hilton describes six people doing it to her in the documentary, which is totally realistic.
[01:03:36]  They bear hug you and like tackle you to the ground.
[01:03:39]  And sometimes they'll put an arm around your neck.
[01:03:42]  I mean, it makes like the worst of police restraint practices look restraint.
[01:03:48]  And, you know, I know I know instances, many, many instances of like them restraining a kid till they piss or shit themselves, kids passing out.
[01:03:57]  Of course, kids dying a lot.
[01:04:00]  Because these adults like aren't trained in this.
[01:04:04]  These aren't like counselors in like the form.
[01:04:07]  Like I'm a trained counselor for drug and alcohol rehabilitation.
[01:04:11]  These people are not.
[01:04:12]  These are just like high school kids or college students.
[01:04:14]  Right, right, right.

=== Kids Dying In Care (15:35) ===

[01:04:15]  Many of whom have graduated from the very facilities that they work at.
[01:04:19]  No.
[01:04:19]  Exactly.
[01:04:20]  That's a huge, that's a huge thing in this.
[01:04:21]  And so after wilderness, and this is oftentimes like a lot more vast majority of the time, kids get sent to wilderness and then they get sent to the school.
[01:04:29]  And I thought I was going home up until like the last week.
[01:04:32]  I was like, all right, well, like two months.
[01:04:34]  They sent me out in the wilderness, like naked and afraid style by myself in the middle of the desert in winter with like a flint.
[01:04:41]  It was a bow drill and a tarp and a book on self-help.
[01:04:45]  And I just ended up masturbating like 40 times a day and being scared of wolves because there was all these marks.
[01:04:50]  Okay, let's keep it moving.
[01:04:51]  Anyways, so I hadn't ended up like two months.
[01:04:54]  Anyways, a grown boy, they sent me to, they were like, at the end, they were like, surprise, motherfucker, like you're going away.
[01:05:01]  And sort of the dot, dot, dot there is like till you're 18.
[01:05:06]  And I got sent to, I transported again to Monarch School in Montana, which, which if you look up Monarch now, it really changed since I went there.
[01:05:17]  It became, it tried to position itself more as like a regular boarding school.
[01:05:21]  They dropped almost all of the stuff that was happening when I was there.
[01:05:25]  And really like, it was no longer, it became something else.
[01:05:29]  It eventually got shut down because the founder, Patrick McKenna, who, well, I'm not going to say what I want to do.
[01:05:37]  It's like, I would, I would, there's no other person in the world I would rather be alone in a room with.
[01:05:42]  Yeah.
[01:05:44]  But, but so I get there and, you know, same shit, strip search, squat and cough.
[01:05:48]  And baby, let me tell you, the next year was the weirdest shit that's ever happened in my entire life.
[01:05:54]  Well, let's get into, do you want to get into it?
[01:05:56]  Absolutely.
[01:05:57]  Yeah.
[01:05:57]  Yeah.
[01:05:59]  Because I know that you and I mean, you know, we've talked a little bit about it and the kind of strange, I don't know, the strange approach to therapy that they had, I guess is a good way to frame it.
[01:06:16]  And it was kind of like group therapy, but it was a little more intense than that and a little bit stranger, to say the least.
[01:06:25]  Synanon had a practice with, I think they call them rap sessions, which is like very time and place for that.
[01:06:31]  They were just called group by the time I got there.
[01:06:34]  But the way that Synon did it is that they sort of sat in a half circle, a semicircle of chairs.
[01:06:39]  Motherfucker, you are in the middle, you know, one person's in the middle.
[01:06:43]  And then everybody just insults you as much as possible and like just yells at you and screams at you.
[01:06:50]  That is the basis for almost, that is like the ritual that undergirds basically everything that these schools are about, which is, you know, they really want to break down.
[01:07:01]  I mean, make no, make no mistake, the point of these schools is to break down everything about you and then build up a new person.
[01:07:11]  You know, which would be one thing, but the real funny thing about it is that they're not good at doing it.
[01:07:15]  It doesn't work.
[01:07:16]  Like, this, this is, there's absolutely no indication, and certainly from my anecdotal knowledge, this has only basically had negative effects on people.
[01:07:24]  Well, there's even, yeah, I mean, I would imagine because what they endure is so intense.
[01:07:29]  I mean, there's, you know, various testimonies out there from people who've been through these programs where it's, I mean, you know, being in lit rooms for 48 hours, not being able to sleep, not being able to, you know, solitary confinement, of course, classic, classic move.
[01:07:52]  You know, even Paris details her solitary confinement in the film.
[01:07:56]  But the like mental breakdown stuff is really, really fascinating to me and particularly horrifying.
[01:08:04]  So, like, what we did was we had group twice or three times a week.
[01:08:08]  I can't really remember.
[01:08:09]  It's funny.
[01:08:09]  I've actually, I had to take a long walk earlier today to kind of try to remember this stuff and yesterday, because I've noticed I blocked a lot of that out of my mind.
[01:08:18]  Yeah, that's something that comes up a lot in the film as well.
[01:08:21]  Yeah.
[01:08:21]  And so, like, I've been reaching out to other people I went there with and kind of like piecing together stuff.
[01:08:25]  But, but they had group, which was this was different than the attack therapy, but it was based on it.
[01:08:31]  I mean, they couldn't really get, I mean, mind you, all of these practices were meant for like drug-addicted adults.
[01:08:36]  I had smoked weed thrice and like drank beer and I believe had grazed one titty with one hand.
[01:08:43]  Uh, I was like, to give you an indication of the kind of guy I was before I got sent, I had kissed a girl who I was like in love with and big crush.
[01:08:51]  I'd first kiss, and I uh didn't know how what making out was.
[01:08:56]  And so, so I just like kept pecking her on the mouth.
[01:08:59]  And so, like, I was not like, you know, I became a real son of a bitch after, but like, before I got sent to this place, I was, you know, pretty, pretty wet behind the ears.
[01:09:07]  Um, but what you had to do in these groups is, is, is you sat in a big circle of like, there was, I think there was two or three different ones, and there was this really heavy air.
[01:09:18]  And what they expected you to do was to look at the ground and yell, I'm worthless, I'm dog shit.
[01:09:24]  Like, you couldn't swear, or else, if you swore outside a group, you had to carry rocks in your pockets.
[01:09:30]  Um, and sometimes, like, with you, like in your hands, if you swore a lot, you had to carry a big rock.
[01:09:35]  Uh, and like you had to scream, I'm worthless, I'm bullshit, like I'm a fucking like you had to, like, they gay people saying that shit.
[01:09:42]  I don't know.
[01:09:43]  I mean, it's it's like they had like it was, it was all it was supposed to be all the negative stuff you told yourself, but you didn't get hear any positive stuff.
[01:09:51]  Like, it was just you hating yourself, and like, even if you didn't hate, I didn't hate myself.
[01:09:57]  That's my one thing, that's why everybody hates me is because I don't hate myself.
[01:10:01]  And I, you had you had to, and you had to weep, and you had to scream, and you had to attack other people.
[01:10:07]  It was a big part of it was confrontation.
[01:10:08]  And the most unnerving thing in the world in my entire life, and a life filled with unnerving things, was my first week there and walking around campus, hoping to talk to other people and be like, hey, what the fuck is going on here?
[01:10:19]  And the blank stares, you know, I mean, talk about fluoride stairs.
[01:10:22]  And, you know, a lot of these people internally were not like this, but like externally, I mean, it was like, I felt like everybody there was brainwashed except for me.
[01:10:31]  I know now that that's not true and that, you know, people were traumatized and I was traumatized.
[01:10:35]  I tried to run away the first week I was there.
[01:10:38]  I just jumped over a rail during class.
[01:10:41]  We had class for about two hours a day, which is like the most bullshit fake high school education ever.
[01:10:46]  And they caught me in the woods.
[01:10:49]  And then, and then I just, the thing that like Paris's really remind experience really reminded me of is that like I also had to create sort of a dual brace system in my head.
[01:11:01]  Yeah.
[01:11:01]  I had to have the external brace because I knew that that there was no hope of me getting back to San Francisco from Heron, Montana.
[01:11:09]  You know, as such, I was, I was 14.
[01:11:10]  I had no money and I didn't really know, you know, it's a long way from Heron.
[01:11:17]  But I knew there was a home visit after a year.
[01:11:19]  And if I could just hang on until that home visit, I could escape.
[01:11:23]  But I also saw that the techniques that they used worked.
[01:11:27]  I mean, they don't work in the long run or even the medium or short-term run, but they work while you're there.
[01:11:32]  And there's this terrible pressure from above to conform to these agreements.
[01:11:37]  And by the way, they didn't have rules, they had agreements.
[01:11:39]  And the really insidious thing is there was no written list.
[01:11:42]  Right.
[01:11:43]  So anything you did could be out of agreement.
[01:11:47]  And you had this social pressure from below.
[01:11:48]  They had this pressure to rat.
[01:11:50]  And I mean, there were so many different things.
[01:11:52]  You were never allowed.
[01:11:53]  You had to be in groups of three at all times, 100% of the time.
[01:11:56]  Never two guys and one girl, always two girls and one guy or three guys, whatever.
[01:12:01]  You know, if there was a room with six guys in it, a woman couldn't, a girl couldn't enter, even if the door was open.
[01:12:07]  It was, it was crazy.
[01:12:08]  You couldn't, you couldn't shave your pubes for women.
[01:12:11]  I did not know that women were told not to masturbate.
[01:12:14]  Every little facet of your life, hangers had to be one, one finger width apart.
[01:12:18]  If they were two finger widths apart, you had to skip breakfast and go, you know, do this chores and stuff.
[01:12:24]  And I was like, okay, well, there were bad kids there, right?
[01:12:29]  Like they were kids, not bad kids in the real sense, but like there were kids who like broke the rules a lot and rebels.
[01:12:34]  And the staff and everyone would tell them, you're going to provo.
[01:12:36]  And sometimes they would get sent to provo.
[01:12:37]  Sometimes they would get sent to like Tranquilia.
[01:12:39]  That's Paris's school.
[01:12:41]  Exactly.
[01:12:42]  And so I was like, well, I am a bad kid, I guess, in the sense that I don't want to be here.
[01:12:47]  But if I act bad outwardly, they'll, well, I mean, these guys always get caught.
[01:12:52]  They're always getting in trouble.
[01:12:52]  The eyes always on them.
[01:12:53]  And so I was like, I got to keep my head down.
[01:12:56]  But internally, I have to have the most like insane hate that a person can have for this place and everybody here.
[01:13:05]  Not every students, but the staff.
[01:13:07]  And so while outside, it was, it was really, I mean, I was thinking about this earlier.
[01:13:11]  It was really intense.
[01:13:12]  Outside, I was like, you know, a fairly middling, you know, person there.
[01:13:15]  I kept my head down.
[01:13:16]  I got in trouble actually semi-offed, but it was impossible not to get in trouble.
[01:13:21]  But inside, I was like, I mean, it was a hate that I've never come close to matching since.
[01:13:28]  It was like a like, you know, kill the village, salt the earth kind of hate about this.
[01:13:35]  And so I had that like, I wasn't able, I mean, those were my real feelings, I guess.
[01:13:39]  And so I had to really like put those down inside.
[01:13:41]  And then that gave me all this big vacuum in me to sort of operate this like space to operate and to lie to people.
[01:13:48]  And I didn't lie and really outrageous.
[01:13:50]  It's like a Russian doll of braces.
[01:13:52]  Exactly.
[01:13:53]  And I could tell.
[01:13:54]  And so that's why the Paris thing seems so familiar to me.
[01:13:57]  It's like, well, I can tell these, like, I can make this persona and these people have to act with this persona.
[01:14:02]  But like the actual brace is in here.
[01:14:04]  And like, he is a psycho fucking person now.
[01:14:08]  But once I escape, I can figure it all out.
[01:14:12]  They had these things there called insights, which you kind of alluded to this earlier.
[01:14:16]  I know we've talked about this one-on-one, but I don't have a great deal of memory of these because they didn't really let you eat.
[01:14:25]  You didn't sleep.
[01:14:26]  And they would lock you in like an all-white room with no windows, just mirrors on the wall.
[01:14:31]  And the one thing I really remember is they would play watching the days go by.
[01:14:36]  Let the water hold me down once in a lifetime.
[01:14:40]  I don't know if that's trademarked.
[01:14:43]  And they made us pretend to be babies.
[01:14:45]  And then they screamed insults at us while we were crawling around the ground.
[01:14:48]  What?
[01:14:49]  Yeah.
[01:14:51]  I think that was supposed to cure depression.
[01:14:52]  I'm not really sure.
[01:14:53]  But they would do other stuff like a friend of mine I was talking to earlier today, which is like, oh yeah.
[01:14:58]  And the final one, they made us vote to kill people in there.
[01:15:02]  And like they had to, if you like voted to like kill, it was like a lifeboat exercise.
[01:15:07]  If you were the person that got voted to kill, you had to make a case for why you shouldn't die in that one minute.
[01:15:12]  And they would make you chant like, I'm going to die.
[01:15:14]  I'm going to die.
[01:15:15]  I'm going to die.
[01:15:16]  All the time.
[01:15:18]  Just, I mean, I, you know, there's a lot to get into.
[01:15:20]  So I'm not going to go too crazy on this.
[01:15:22]  But like, I mean, you mentioned trying to escape the first time.
[01:15:25]  Paris tried to escape a couple times, which she details in the film.
[01:15:29]  Which I, I mean, I have to say, like, I was watching that and I was like, damn, go, girl.
[01:15:33]  Yeah.
[01:15:34]  You know?
[01:15:35]  I always had a ton of respect for people who tried to escape.
[01:15:37]  Yeah.
[01:15:39]  I, at my place, there actually had been no successful escapes.
[01:15:43]  Provo is a lot closer to a larger town than we were.
[01:15:46]  We were very isolated in like the wilderness.
[01:15:49]  But after about a year, and I mean, there's so much psycho shit that happened that I can't even explain.
[01:15:55]  I mean, I had to, I at one point got caught.
[01:15:58]  I had written an erotic story about a fellow classmate because I was 13 and Horny and like there was no national geographics there.
[01:16:05]  And they made me like detail it in front of like 50 people and I wasn't allowed to talk to women for a month or sit within like five feet of them.
[01:16:12]  Yes.
[01:16:13]  Very great for a developing psyche.
[01:16:16]  And so after a year, I had a home visit.
[01:16:22]  And at this point, I was like, you know, all my phone calls were monitored.
[01:16:25]  There was always someone with a finger on the button to hang up.
[01:16:27]  All your letters in and out were read.
[01:16:29]  They would always eat the food if you got sent any.
[01:16:32]  And after a year, I made it out back home.
[01:16:37]  And I was supposed to throw away like all of my punk stuff, which amounted to like two Misfit C Ds and Dead Kennedy shirt and like a shitty women's leather jacket that I had found at a thrift store in Berkeley.
[01:16:49]  And instead, I logged on to AIM and made a new screen name and hit up my friend Max, who I'll be forever grateful for.
[01:16:59]  And he and some of my crumb bum friends drove out and picked me up.
[01:17:02]  And I spent the next four months as a runaway.
[01:17:06]  And I had some bad experiences.
[01:17:09]  I spent some time on the streets of LA, tried the guy tried to do some nasty shit to me in Hollywood.
[01:17:16]  And I lost my virginity, which was not the same thing as the Hollywood thing.
[01:17:20]  But that like, and I didn't have to go back.
[01:17:25]  I eventually got caught making out with this shaved-headed chick under the bridge at Dolores Park.
[01:17:31]  And that was like, it's crazy.
[01:17:33]  I was the first successful escapee.
[01:17:35]  And it was only after a year, and you're supposed to be there for almost two years.
[01:17:39]  And it's crazy because like I can trace basically the rest of my like fucked up, awful existence in the years after that.
[01:17:48]  I mean, I liked it, but it was not healthy to what happened to me at CD, or excuse me, at Monarch at one of these CDU schools.
[01:17:56]  And, you know, I'm not alone.
[01:17:58]  I was talking to a friend of mine who really liked, who, who went there and who really like studies this stuff.
[01:18:04]  And she sent me a list of people from our school who died.
[01:18:08]  And I mean, it is a heavy casualty list of people who've killed themselves, people who've overdosed, people who, you know, it's, it's, I mean, it's literally like many, many people.
[01:18:21]  I mean, there's literally, there's more than I can, we can even count.
[01:18:25]  And in fact, I, I, you know, I went, I went to the funeral of one of these guys right when I got sober in 2014.
[01:18:32]  I actually saw him in the rooms and he OD'd pretty much right after that.
[01:18:35]  He was really fucked up and depressed from it.
[01:18:37]  So the fucked up thing about this is I actually ran into the headmaster, Tim Earl, at a hot springs a few years ago where I went for my birthday and I had not been out of town in a long time.
[01:18:47]  And he was standing there in a fucking rob zombie cowboy hat, like knee-high Ugg boots and a robe that contained his penis underneath it.
[01:18:57]  And he like approached me and started talking to me.
[01:19:00]  And I had probably the most terrified reflex of my life.
[01:19:04]  I think at this point in my life, I probably would have done something, but I was just shocked.
[01:19:09]  And I basically didn't leave my room for the next day.
[01:19:12]  And we were only affair for a couple of days.
[01:19:15]  But it is my life's goal to ruin these people's lives and to ruin their families' lives.
[01:19:23]  And I think I share that goal with a lot of people who went there with me, man.
[01:19:26]  I mean, it's fucked up.
[01:19:27]  But like, it's just crazy because there's so many people.
[01:19:30]  I guarantee everybody listening to this who lives in America knows one person who got sent to one of these places.
[01:19:35]  It's so widespread and it's legalized and like incentivized abuse.
[01:19:42]  We got, we, yeah, it's, insane.
[01:19:46]  Well, no, one of those people you share that goal with is Paris Hilton, which I know.

=== Paris Hilton's MK Ultra (03:50) ===

[01:19:51]  Who knows?
[01:19:51]  Paris, if you, if you're listening to this, which I know you, you listen to free episodes, I don't know if this is one of those, but let's connect.
[01:19:59]  And not like we used to, like, let's connect in like a real heart-to-heart way, baby.
[01:20:03]  Get out your sidekicks.
[01:20:05]  Exactly.
[01:20:06]  Yeah, you're my sidekick.
[01:20:07]  Hey.
[01:20:08]  I'm just joking.
[01:20:11]  Yeah.
[01:20:12]  Yeah.
[01:20:12]  I mean, it's, it's, it's shut, shut all these fucking places down and put all the people who own them in fucking prison or wars.
[01:20:19]  Now I've heard there was a secret chord that David played and it pleased the Lord.
[01:20:28]  But you don't really care for music, do you?
[01:20:37]  It goes like this, the fourth, the fifth, the minor fall, the major lift, the baffled king composing.
[01:21:08]  Well, I got MKUltrad.
[01:21:10]  I mean, that's kind of the implication.
[01:21:13]  We, you know, we said we would do another episode on Cinnanon and we have to because we're going to have to, you know, we've been talking a long time about doing a series on MKUltra.
[01:21:22]  It's impossible to do a single episode on it.
[01:21:26]  And I don't even know if it's a series or if we fit it into something else talking about California in the 60s, but MKUltra and Cynanon, you know, exactly.
[01:21:40]  Not strange bedfellows, but just regular bedfellows that in fact fuck a lot.
[01:21:45]  Yeah.
[01:21:45]  So, I mean, I was thinking about that when I was watching the Paris thing because I was like, oh my God, Paris Hilton got MK Ultrad into creating Instagram influencers and like that entire new economy of like female needs on Instagram.
[01:22:02]  Yeah.
[01:22:03]  That's that was a psyop.
[01:22:05]  She is the OG psyop.
[01:22:07]  I'm well, mine's a little more traditional.
[01:22:10]  I first of all put subliminal messages to beautiful women in these, which is when I say my name.
[01:22:15]  And the second, you'll be able to hear, you'll be able to hear, if you play the entire podcast backwards, there's a secret message that that race handlers have put through.
[01:22:28]  And then I also like, you know, I've said this a million times.
[01:22:31]  Like, I snitch.
[01:22:32]  You know, I stay snitching.
[01:22:35]  I snitch on you guys.
[01:22:36]  I just make shit up sometimes.
[01:22:38]  No, you.
[01:22:39]  Well, I don't.
[01:22:40]  I mean, okay.
[01:22:41]  Yeah, I don't.
[01:22:42]  But like, I do.
[01:22:45]  Like a guy really.
[01:22:46]  Oh, man.
[01:22:47]  Oh, I got a couple new guys to show you.
[01:22:49]  I came up with a couple guys in the past week that I really.
[01:22:52]  I saw one on Twitter that I was laughing at.
[01:22:54]  Guy, that guy that thinks anal means gay.
[01:22:57]  Yeah.
[01:22:57]  Really like that guy.
[01:22:58]  Oh, man.
[01:22:59]  My boss is, you know, it's really anal.
[01:23:01]  I was like, what?
[01:23:02]  He is?
[01:23:06]  I came up with a couple other ones that are too hot for TV, but yeah, a little too hot for TV.
[01:23:11]  What a, well, that was a, you know, that's a way to do 100.
[01:23:15]  Guys, check this out.
[01:23:16]  Guy that starts singing hallelujah when he's like making out with a chick and like a sex.
[01:23:21]  It's like, he's like kissing her.
[01:23:22]  He's like, hallelujah.
[01:23:25]  Or it's like, you know, you're like kissing and he's like, he's just like, he's like, but it's like in between kisses.
[01:23:37]  It's just like, that guy.

=== Jeffrey Epstein Show (04:57) ===

[01:23:42]  And this, like, starts screaming it when he's gone.
[01:23:44]  The fourth, the fifth, the minor falls, and the major cliff.
[01:23:52]  Do you know that he actually flew to Israel to perform for the troops in the 1973 Yom Kippur War?
[01:23:57]  So...
[01:23:58]  So canceled.
[01:24:00]  Ba-boom.
[01:24:01]  Leonard, suck my dick, man.
[01:24:03]  Anyways, that's still good.
[01:24:06]  Let's wrap this bitch up.
[01:24:07]  Let's get to 101.
[01:24:09]  Yeah, that sounds better than 100.
[01:24:11]  101.
[01:24:13]  It was like an odd number.
[01:24:15]  Uh-huh.
[01:24:15]  Like this shit.
[01:24:16]  It was a shitty British band in the 70s, the 101ers.
[01:24:18]  Anyway, I don't know why I'm saying that.
[01:24:19]  I'm mentally ill.
[01:24:22]  Let's close this bitch out.
[01:24:23]  Let's shut the garage door.
[01:24:25]  All right.
[01:24:25]  And start the car.
[01:24:31]  This is the final Truan episode.
[01:24:33]  This is the final Truana.
[01:24:34]  We are recording this from Little Stevens Underground Garage.
[01:24:39]  We are here with the boss.
[01:24:41]  He is closing this garage door.
[01:24:44]  We are playing the yard birds and we are dying.
[01:24:48]  No, none of that's happening.
[01:24:49]  But I'm Liz.
[01:24:50]  My name is Brace.
[01:24:52]  We are joined by producer Young Chomsky.
[01:24:55]  And hopefully, God willing, we'll see you next time.
[01:24:59]  Bye-bye.
[01:25:33]  Jeff Jack, Jeffrey Epstein.
[01:25:36]  Come here.
[01:25:39]  Joe College.
[01:25:44]  Come out.
[01:25:53]  It never guess.
[01:26:06]  It never guessed.
[01:26:13]  Jeffrey Epstein.
[01:26:17]  Jeffrey Epstein.
[01:26:19]  Jeff's going to show.
[01:26:21]  Jeffrey Epstein.
[01:26:24]  Jeff's going to show.
[01:26:26]  Jeff Jack, Jeffrey Epstein.
[01:26:28]  Just going to show Jeffrey Epstein.
[01:26:32]  Jeff's going to show Jeffrey Epstein.
[01:27:04]  Yes.
[01:27:06]  Yes.
[01:27:18]  Guess.
[01:27:19]  What's up?
[01:27:20]  Come here.
[01:27:24]  Joe College.
[01:27:38]  It never guess.
[01:27:42]  It never gas it never.
[01:27:47]  It never gas, It never gasped.
[01:27:57]  Geoffrey Levstein, Devonshire.
[01:28:02]  Jeffrey Levston, Jefferson.
[01:28:06]  Geoffrey Levstein, Devonshire.
[01:28:11]  Jeffrey Jeffrey Lexon's for Shino.
[01:28:15]  Jeffrey Levstead, Devonshire.
[01:28:19]  Jeffrey Levston, Jean's vision.
[01:28:23]  Geoffrey Lebston, Jean's vision.
[01:28:28]  Jeff Jack.
[01:28:29]  Jeffrey Levston, Jefferson.
[01:28:35]  Jeffrey Levston, Jefferson.