True Anon Truth Feed - [9/11 Week] Bush Did 9/11 Part 3
Aired: 2020-09-09
Duration: 01:52:08


=== Part Three: Unveiling the Hairy Chest (02:02) ===

[00:00:01]  You don't want to start?
[00:00:02]  Come on.
[00:00:03]  I never know.
[00:00:04]  You know how you always start.
[00:00:05]  No, no, I want to.
[00:00:06]  No, Liz, I refuse.
[00:00:08]  I'm going on silent strike.
[00:00:11]  Okay.
[00:00:11]  Yes.
[00:00:12]  Part three today happening.
[00:00:14]  Long awaited.
[00:00:16]  See, my intros suck.
[00:00:17]  I can't.
[00:00:18]  That was barely English.
[00:00:21]  Hold on.
[00:00:23]  Let me, let's, let's, let's let, I'm taking my shirt off for this.
[00:00:27]  Oh, we're video chatting.
[00:00:28]  Don't take your shirt off.
[00:00:30]  How do you like that?
[00:00:30]  Look, make me full screen.
[00:00:32]  So welcome to part three.
[00:00:36]  I know many of you have been asking.
[00:00:39]  Many of you have been emailing Patreon messaging, which I just realized was a thing.
[00:00:44]  So I'm sorry that there's many hundreds in there.
[00:00:47]  Just send us an email or something.
[00:00:49]  Sorry.
[00:00:50]  And asking us, where's part three?
[00:00:53]  Well, we haven't.
[00:00:55]  In fact, we have it right now.
[00:00:59]  That was good.
[00:01:00]  That was so much better.
[00:01:01]  Okay.
[00:01:02]  So I was waiting for you to jump in.
[00:01:03]  I'm looking at your face and I can see that.
[00:01:05]  I was taking a screenshot of you not rubbing yourself.
[00:01:09]  No, dude, I'm rubbing the ingrown hair because it itches, dude.
[00:01:12]  I'm not, these aren't my, my nipples are right here.
[00:01:15]  You can see them.
[00:01:15]  I'll put it as close to the camera.
[00:01:17]  No, I'm fine.
[00:01:18]  I don't need to see those.
[00:01:19]  Oh, you're fine now that you saw him.
[00:01:43]  I am, I got a hairy chest.
[00:01:45]  I want to say that.
[00:01:46]  Liz is captivated by it right now.
[00:01:49]  We are, I'm so excited.
[00:01:51]  This is this.
[00:01:51]  I'm so excited.
[00:01:52]  This is going to be a long one.
[00:01:54]  I mean, you know, this is my shit.
[00:01:57]  This is my, this is where I shine from all the tinfoil that I am wearing on my head.

=== Introducing Liz and the Show (05:50) ===

[00:02:03]  So I want to be clear that 9-11 was an occult blood ritual done by various demons and goblins, which I mean in a normal way, in order to summon the ultimate power, which was the ability to invade Iraq.
[00:02:22]  Yeah.
[00:02:23]  Okay.
[00:02:23]  So we have a really extra long, extra special episode interview here with our friend Ben, who's coming back to Mansplain all the different, all the things that went awry on the day of 9-11.
[00:02:39]  And I hope that we're going to include some links with the episode, but I hope that you guys, you know, truthers get a bad rap.
[00:02:48]  The truther community gets a bad rap.
[00:02:52]  And if you're not, if you have never perhaps entertained some of these ideas, like, you know, open your third eye, keep your mind open, because I don't think we're talking quackery.
[00:03:03]  Like, this is all very reasonable, understandable stuff.
[00:03:08]  I just want to say, like, think of who is telling you to think of like people who question the official 9-11 story as wackos.
[00:03:16]  And then also think, like, if you're listening to this podcast, then you've pretty much already accepted that there was a giant pedophile ring being run by like some of the most famous and powerful people in the world.
[00:03:29]  I think you should maybe be like, yeah, I think these people are also capable of flying some planes into some buildings so that they could get everything they ever wanted.
[00:03:38]  And had been planning since the 80s.
[00:03:40]  Exactly.
[00:03:40]  So I just want to say, keep it.
[00:03:43]  I mean, as you guys know, that I'm the most dogmatic man in history, but even I'm saying here, keep an open mind.
[00:03:50]  Yeah.
[00:03:50]  So also, you got plenty of time on your hands now with quarantine.
[00:03:54]  And it sounds to me like it's the perfect time to get into watch a four and a half hour documentary about how 9-11 was an inside job, that time is now.
[00:04:10]  So without further ado, let's show us the road.
[00:04:13]  Really?
[00:04:14]  Well, let's intro.
[00:04:15]  Wait, Liz, Liz, Liz.
[00:04:17]  We have to introduce ourselves.
[00:04:18]  We have to introduce ourselves.
[00:04:20]  My name is Paul Wolfowitz.
[00:04:23]  No relation.
[00:04:24]  No, my name is Brace Belden.
[00:04:26]  I'm joined here by Liz.
[00:04:29]  That's me.
[00:04:30]  And of course, we are produced by Muhammad Atcuse, Young Chomsky.
[00:04:36]  And this is Truan.
[00:04:38]  And this is Bush Did 9-11, Part 3.
[00:05:09]  Well, welcome to the long-awaited Part 3, excuse me, Tower 3 episode of the True Anon 9-11 Fandango.
[00:05:24]  I should have thought of a better word for that before I started that sentence.
[00:05:28]  With our guest, Mr. Ben.
[00:05:30]  Ben, how are you doing?
[00:05:32]  I'm doing all right.
[00:05:32]  How are you guys?
[00:05:33]  I'm good.
[00:05:34]  How's quarantine?
[00:05:36]  Quarantine's going all right.
[00:05:37]  You know, the days are blending together, but it's all right, you know?
[00:05:42]  I've been enjoying your nature videos.
[00:05:46]  Yeah, there's a great path behind.
[00:05:48]  There's lots of turkeys and deer around.
[00:05:50]  It's great.
[00:05:50]  Saw the deer.
[00:05:51]  The deer you posted were looking very.
[00:05:52]  They're looking very handsome.
[00:05:54]  Oh yeah, they're doing great very fast.
[00:05:56]  Turkey as well.
[00:05:56]  That video was astounding.
[00:05:58]  Are you, have you gone full prepper?
[00:06:00]  Oh, our whole house is.
[00:06:02]  Every possible space is full of canned beans and uh, paper products.
[00:06:07]  Yeah, it's we're, we're fully prepped.
[00:06:09]  Well awesome, I would expect nothing less.
[00:06:13]  Uh, so you know I, I I think you know why we called you here today, Ben.
[00:06:18]  Yes, We need to talk about some of your friends.
[00:06:24]  Well, we're not friends.
[00:06:25]  We're colleagues.
[00:06:26]  Colleagues, colleagues, excuse me.
[00:06:27]  Co-workers.
[00:06:28]  Yeah.
[00:06:29]  We get on Zoom calls together once in a while.
[00:06:31]  Beyond that, there's no drinks or anything.
[00:06:33]  Do you think, actually, side note, do you think they're doing Zoom calls?
[00:06:36]  Do you think they're in quarantine?
[00:06:38]  I think they're FaceTiming.
[00:06:39]  I think they got that end-to-end encryption, you know?
[00:06:41]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:06:42]  I actually have, we talked about this on our last episode, but I have wondered how like Kissinger, because he's so old.
[00:06:48]  Like, I wonder what his sort of like quarantine routine is.
[00:06:52]  Yeah, I'm sure he's got a bunch of manservants in there lifting them up and moving them around.
[00:06:57]  Half of the people that we're about to talk about in this episode will be buried with their slaves and servants who will serve them in the afterlife.
[00:07:05]  So it's, it's, yeah.
[00:07:07]  Wait, so where we left off in our series, it was a little while ago.
[00:07:11]  So we had kind of like talked about the prelude to 9-11 being about 40 years of U.S. foreign policy to kind of like position the actual events of 9-11.
[00:07:25]  I think you put it this way, when it was such a great way to think of it, like as a continuation rather than interruption.
[00:07:31]  But we never, and then, and then we kind of went into the anthrax attacks because that was a real, that's a really important story for people to understand that kind of doesn't get told enough in this as we kind of get into the story.
[00:07:44]  But today we're talking about the main event, which is the actual, you know, the show that everyone kind of came to see, I guess.

=== Cheney's Tunnel Briefing (14:46) ===

[00:07:54]  The actual events of September 11th, 2001, in case you forgot, but you didn't.
[00:08:01]  That's the rule.
[00:08:02]  And much like the stage plays of your, I think we should go down a little cast of characters first, at least on a certain level, to see kind of where everybody was that day, right?
[00:08:18]  Because I think many people remember George Bush famously was reading a book to some school children when one of his humble aides whispered in his ear and alerted him that the plan was working.
[00:08:38]  Yes, what was the book called?
[00:08:39]  I forgot.
[00:08:40]  It was, isn't it like something about a goat?
[00:08:43]  Oh yeah, a goat or a pig or animal root.
[00:08:46]  I can't remember.
[00:08:47]  It was like to a lovely bunch of schoolchildren.
[00:08:50]  In Sarasota, Florida.
[00:08:53]  But surprisingly, few people were in the White House that day, right?
[00:08:56]  I mean, it seems like basically, no, it's funny.
[00:08:58]  Actually, Neil Bush, George Bush's brother, and his father were both staying in the White House, but very few other people were, I think, except for supposedly Cheney and Condoleezza Rice.
[00:09:12]  But basically, everyone else is gone.
[00:09:14]  Colin Powell was down in Lima, Peru.
[00:09:16]  Ashcroft was on his way to Milwaukee.
[00:09:19]  The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, this guy, Henry Shelton, was on his way to Hungary for like, I think it was a NATO meeting, but his trip was actually supposed to culminate in him being knighted by the Queen of England, which is love it.
[00:09:34]  FEMA director Joe Albo is in Montana.
[00:09:38]  Rumsfeld, of course, well, we'll get to Rumsfeld, but supposedly ensconced in the bosom of the Pentagon.
[00:09:46]  Robert Mueller was preparing his case against Donald Trump in the, you know, FBI head.
[00:09:52]  He is in the FBI offices.
[00:09:53]  Yeah, TBT, just in case our listeners forget, Robert Mueller, famed resistant alpha male, man of your dreams, was actually FBI director for the Bush admin.
[00:10:06]  And sweet little Norman Minetta, Secretary of Transportation, was in his office with Richard Clark also in his.
[00:10:14]  And that's where we start, right?
[00:10:17]  Cheney had quite a day, guys.
[00:10:20]  Yeah, it's a little confusing what day he had, actually, which I think we should get into.
[00:10:25]  So basically, you know, one of the things to understand about like, or as we try to kind of piece together an accurate timeline of what happened, which is actually surprisingly complicated, it's like important for us to kind of track where these people were and what they were doing.
[00:10:45]  And kind of like we mentioned, it's really hard to get a read on particularly two people, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, obviously the most trustworthy guys in the admin.
[00:10:57]  And if you had listened to, you know, our previous episodes about 9-11, you will remember these guys because they are big figures in also Daddy Bush's admin and have been key power players in Middle East foreign policy for, I don't know, 35, 40 years at this point.
[00:11:15]  Yeah, definitely.
[00:11:16]  I mean, going back to Ford.
[00:11:17]  Yeah.
[00:11:18]  So one of the big things is that there's a couple discrepancies about where exactly Cheney was and how he came to learn about the 9-11 attacks.
[00:11:30]  There's like an account that was settled by the commission report.
[00:11:34]  Then there's other versions that his secretaries say.
[00:11:37]  But the general idea is that at some point, right after the first tower gets hit, which I believe is at 9.05 a.m.
[00:11:49]  Somewhere it's like yeah, I think it's 905.
[00:11:51]  903, 905, something like that?
[00:11:53]  I think it's a 903, yeah.
[00:11:54]  903.
[00:11:55]  I want to get that precise because why not?
[00:11:58]  Sorry, I think the second one was in 903.
[00:12:00]  The first one, I think, was in 857.
[00:12:03]  847.
[00:12:04]  857, something like that.
[00:12:06]  Yeah, that sounds right.
[00:12:07]  My bad.
[00:12:08]  So right after the second plane, it's the second plane that hits, he allegedly gets transported out of the White House where he is and to a bunker.
[00:12:21]  Do you want to go into kind of like the different, there's a couple different stories that emerge here and also a little confusing bits about what exactly this bunker is.
[00:12:32]  Yeah, so there, so the bunker is the PEOC.
[00:12:35]  It's the some kind of, I think it's the Presidential Executive Operations Center, something like that.
[00:12:41]  But basically there are two different accounts.
[00:12:44]  And the one that the commission went with is that basically after the second plane hit at about 9.03, Cheney is just sort of hanging out in his office watching, according to him, watching TV.
[00:12:59]  He said he was getting organized to figure out what to do.
[00:13:03]  And he only got evacuated about half an hour after at about 9.36.
[00:13:08]  And in the commission report story, that was connected with them being concerned that Flight 93, the one that crashed in Pennsylvania, was headed towards DC.
[00:13:21]  That is the story that the commission went with.
[00:13:24]  And then at some point, he's in the tunnel.
[00:13:27]  He takes a call with the president at some point, probably around 9.45, according to the commission story.
[00:13:33]  And then he gets into the bunker at about 10 in the morning.
[00:13:37]  The problem is that there are a bunch of witnesses who say that that's not what happened.
[00:13:46]  You have Richard Clark, who was the counter-terror czar, was with Cheney at around the time that the second tower was hit and says that basically immediately when that happened, the Secret Service grabbed him and brought him down to the bunker.
[00:14:04]  Bush's secretary also says that she saw Cheney being brought by Secret Service to the bunker at around that time.
[00:14:13]  Somebody else, I can't remember, there was some other witness as well.
[00:14:15]  I feel like she said that he was like physically picked up and carried.
[00:14:19]  Yeah.
[00:14:19]  So it was like something you would remember seeing.
[00:14:22]  Totally, totally.
[00:14:24]  And then Cheney said that as well.
[00:14:26]  I mean, and he's waffled on the story as well.
[00:14:29]  But both of his, yeah, his accounts include him being lifted up and basically being dragged there.
[00:14:35]  And that's what Richard Clark says he saw as well.
[00:14:38]  And then our man inside, Norman Mineta, says that Cheney got into the bunker When Norman Mineta got into the bunker at 9.20 in the morning, Cheney was already there.
[00:14:51]  And Norman Minetta is stuck by that story, too.
[00:14:53]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:14:54]  And that's the testimony he gave to the commission.
[00:14:56]  He was under oath.
[00:14:57]  I mean, you know, he, you know, that's a wide, 40 minutes is a very wide timeframe to be off.
[00:15:04]  And certainly, obviously, you would remember the vice president being there, particularly given there were multiple orders, including Mineta gave the order for all the planes to be downed, that Cheney gave his assent to that order.
[00:15:18]  And that was before 10 in the morning.
[00:15:19]  So, you know, the idea that Minetta would have misremembered that, it just doesn't make any sense.
[00:15:25]  It's absurd.
[00:15:26]  Yeah, especially because you can, you know, that order was relayed to other people as well.
[00:15:30]  Right, exactly.
[00:15:31]  Exactly.
[00:15:31]  So where did the commission get the story?
[00:15:35]  Cheney changed it.
[00:15:36]  And basically, I believe it was in a newsweek.
[00:15:40]  So he gave that the initial story he gave to Tim Russert, like not long after the attack.
[00:15:46]  And the second story he gave to Newsweek, and it's also what he told the commission, that it was much later, that it was closer to this 9.35-ish timeframe.
[00:15:57]  And it seems like he basically just decided to change his story completely.
[00:16:02]  I have my own theories as to why they went with this story, but that's what happened.
[00:16:09]  Well, there's this whole sequence of events where Cheney makes multiple calls in the tunnel.
[00:16:19]  David Ray Griffin and Peter Del Scott and others think that these were calls that they didn't want other people, because there's very extensive notes taken about everything, right?
[00:16:28]  Every call that's made, every conversation that happens, there are people who are recording this information, taking notes, writing things down.
[00:16:36]  And there's information, there's conversations that these people, for a variety of reasons, did not, I think, want other people to hear.
[00:16:46]  So I think that the confusion comes from Cheney went, or not even the confusion, the intentional misrepresentation of what happened comes from Cheney went into the tunnel to have these multiple conversations and then came from the tunnel back into the PEOC.
[00:17:03]  So for example, I think there was certainly a call between Bush, Rumsfeld, and Cheney at around 9.45, somewhere in that timeframe, that Cheney seems to have taken in the tunnel and then came back into the bunker after that.
[00:17:18]  So you're thinking is he's like, okay, I'm going to duck out for a little bit to make a couple of, let's say, off-the-record calls, come back in, and he couldn't really figure out a way to say that without saying that.
[00:17:29]  And so he basically just changed the story to something that's unbelievable, but it's also, it's difficult to call him on because everyone has a vested interest in not relaying the truth of that.
[00:17:40]  And of course, he and Bush were never called to testify to the commission under oath.
[00:17:44]  And so he didn't stand, he wasn't going to perjure himself if he lied.
[00:17:49]  But yes, exactly.
[00:17:50]  I think they wanted to obscure the fact that these calls were made outside of the normal communications channels.
[00:17:58]  For example, there was a big ongoing National Military Coordinating Center conference call that was going on where the Secretary of Defense and Cheney and all these other people were coordinating the air defense response and all the other things that were happening.
[00:18:12]  And these calls were occurring, obviously, outside of that communications channel.
[00:18:16]  And that was something that the Commission did not want to get into, right?
[00:18:19]  They didn't want to have to talk about these conversations.
[00:18:23]  And so just obscuring the fact that they even occurred at all or where Cheney was during these times, I think was a part of covering that part of the day up.
[00:18:32]  Well, there's also the question, too, about the shoot-down order.
[00:18:36]  Yes.
[00:18:37]  Yes.
[00:18:38]  There's a lot of, let's say, conflicting accounts around that as well.
[00:18:42]  Right, the question of the, so, and this is again testimony from Norman Mineta, seemingly the only honest man in the budget.
[00:18:51]  I know he's so gentle.
[00:18:54]  He's like totally gentle.
[00:18:55]  He seems like he's just accidentally ended up in this whole boondoggle.
[00:19:00]  Well, I guess my point is that the idea that this could have been, so there's all of this, this conversation happened, right?
[00:19:07]  The commission, this conversation that Mineta overheard between this aide and Cheney, the commission admits that this conversation happened.
[00:19:14]  Obviously, Mineta did not remember nothing, right?
[00:19:16]  And he's a senior member of the Bush administration.
[00:19:20]  And this, I think, is part of the whole confusion about when Cheney got to the bunker, because in the Commission's version of the story, this conversation was about Flight 93 and not about Flight 77.
[00:19:34]  And so what that allows them to do is to speculate that maybe this order was a shoot-down order rather than a stown-down order.
[00:19:43]  Well, famously, that's sort of how it's reported, is that he was, you know, there was this sort of tension around a shoot-down order.
[00:19:50]  Right.
[00:19:51]  And a positive shoot-down order.
[00:19:53]  Right, right.
[00:19:54]  But if you look at, and that's based on this conversation happening after 937, after Flight 77 hits the Pentagon.
[00:20:03]  Right, because if it happened earlier, it wouldn't have anything to do with 93.
[00:20:06]  Right.
[00:20:07]  They didn't know about Flight 93 at that time.
[00:20:10]  But if you take Mineta at his word, and I don't think there's any reason to distrust him, certainly there's more reason to trust him than Cheney, for example.
[00:20:18]  Sure.
[00:20:19]  It's not possible that they were referencing Flight 93.
[00:20:22]  And it would not be a shoot-down order.
[00:20:26]  It just, that wouldn't make sense, which, of course, that order was not given until at least 20 minutes later, shortly before 10, probably during that conversation that Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld had at about 9.45, somewhere in that timeframe.
[00:20:42]  So that's the other person that's kind of has a little bit of a weird timeline is Donald Rumsfeld.
[00:20:48]  And he was actually at the Pentagon that day, like we mentioned.
[00:20:51]  Yeah.
[00:20:52]  And for Donald Russo, it was just a regular fucking day.
[00:20:55]  Like he basically treated it completely normally.
[00:21:00]  You know, he was at a meeting, I think, until about 9 o'clock.
[00:21:06]  And then he gets to his office for his daily CIA briefing.
[00:21:11]  And his briefer had seen, his briefer was a CIA officer woman named Denny Watson who had seen the crash happen on TV.
[00:21:20]  Obviously, when the first plane hit, there was all this confusion about was it an accident.
[00:21:24]  Obviously, by the time the second plane hits, it's clear this is some kind of a coordinated event.
[00:21:30]  Right.
[00:21:30]  So she obviously is very concerned about this.
[00:21:35]  She tells Rumsfeld, you know, hey, like, obviously we're not doing this briefing because this thing just happened.
[00:21:40]  And Russell's like, no, no, no, come on, let's do the briefing.
[00:21:44]  You know, she's like on the phone with CIA Operations Center, and they're talking about there's 50 planes unaccounted for.
[00:21:49]  She's talking to Rumsfeld about this.
[00:21:51]  And Rumsfeld is just like, no, let's go through the briefing.
[00:21:55]  And they do.
[00:21:56]  Cool as a cucumber, that one.
[00:21:57]  Just unshakable.
[00:21:59]  Completely unflappable.
[00:22:01]  And it's almost like he had some kind of idea about what was going to happen.
[00:22:05]  Well, it's really funny if you see the video clips of him, like basically, I mean, there's video of him like surveying the Pentagon crash.
[00:22:13]  And he's just like walking around like regular Joe, just like totally normal.
[00:22:18]  Just like, whoa, look at this.
[00:22:20]  Not even like in shock.
[00:22:22]  No way.
[00:22:22]  Like it is, it's really off-putting, even just like visually.
[00:22:26]  To be clear, he was in the Pentagon.
[00:22:29]  Like, just to our listeners understand, he was in the Pentagon when it got hit.
[00:22:33]  Yep.
[00:22:34]  And like still was totally fine.
[00:22:36]  Yep.
[00:22:37]  Like, like, wasn't unflappable.

=== Rumsfeld's Calm Amid Chaos (11:23) ===

[00:22:41]  The man's unflappable.
[00:22:42]  Yep.
[00:22:42]  He, so, yeah, I mean, he's, he's sitting there.
[00:22:45]  This CIA person trying to convince him that this is, that, you know, they need to end this briefing.
[00:22:49]  His senior military advisor also comes in and says, hey, like, what the fuck?
[00:22:53]  And then the Pentagon gets hit towards the end of their briefing at, you know, about 9.37.
[00:23:00]  And he, and by the way, during this time, Condoleezza Rice is trying to get in touch with him.
[00:23:05]  She says that she called his office at about 9.05.
[00:23:08]  He was in his office, so it's unclear why she couldn't get in touch with him.
[00:23:12]  Maybe he just had it on vibrate.
[00:23:14]  Yeah, he just had his phone up.
[00:23:16]  He left her on red.
[00:23:17]  Yeah.
[00:23:19]  And then, right, you know, the Pentagon gets hit.
[00:23:21]  Rumsfeld leaves his office and immediately books it against the advice of his bodyguard to the mall.
[00:23:28]  There's nothing on the Pentagon Mall, so they go towards like the, because it's like near this, there's like this whole parking complex, just where the plane hit.
[00:23:37]  And so they go over there and he's literally, there's footage of him, you know, picking up stretchers.
[00:23:42]  Yeah, it's incredibly bizarre.
[00:23:44]  It's like this horrible old hobgoblin just like running people's bodies.
[00:23:52]  I don't know where, probably some kind of collection center.
[00:23:55]  But yeah, it's crazy because to me, so obviously, you know, I'm not an employee of the U.S. government and I don't, I haven't worked in the Pentagon.
[00:24:07]  But you would think that a man in his position would want to be sort of making some calls there, right?
[00:24:14]  Like you wouldn't just be like, all right, I'm going to go pick up.
[00:24:18]  There's other people for those tasks, right?
[00:24:20]  But he stayed out there for a while.
[00:24:22]  I mean, there's like a good 30 or 40 minutes when he's just out in front of the Pentagon picking up bodies and not where you'd think he would be, which would try to be sort of at the nerve center.
[00:24:31]  You know, he doesn't seem to be in touch with anybody else.
[00:24:34]  He's just sort of MIA out in front.
[00:24:37]  Yeah.
[00:24:38]  Yeah.
[00:24:38]  He's completely missing.
[00:24:40]  So he's outside of the Pentagon between when the plane hits like 9.37 till about 10 o'clock.
[00:24:47]  So about 20 minutes.
[00:24:48]  And then even after he comes into the Pentagon, which supposedly happened at about 10 o'clock, he doesn't hop on this conference call, this NMCC conference call, until 10.30.
[00:25:00]  There's another 30-minute period where he's just completely unaccounted for.
[00:25:04]  Basically AWOL.
[00:25:07]  And yeah, it's a little suspicious.
[00:25:11]  I mean, I got to say, you'd think that's the thing about 9-11 is that there's so few minutes to really account for that it's very strange when someone can't account for like such a large chunk of time.
[00:25:24]  Yes.
[00:25:25]  Yes, some known unknowns.
[00:25:28]  Isn't that what he would say?
[00:25:29]  Unknown knowns.
[00:25:30]  What a bruh.
[00:25:32]  Make my stupid Rumsfeld joke.
[00:25:36]  So another person that has a little bit of a funny story here, you mentioned her, Fraysa's ex-girlfriend, Condoleezza Rice.
[00:25:45]  Listen, no, it was just like a weekend fling.
[00:25:48]  It was a lost weekend sort of thing.
[00:25:50]  So Condi, it's funny, I was reading about this.
[00:25:53]  Condoleezza Rice says that, of course, the U.S. had no foreknowledge.
[00:25:56]  I think she swore, I think this was in her testimony, that she swore that they had no foreknowledge of any kind of attack, that there was no, like, this is totally unforeseen.
[00:26:03]  But she herself had been warned about a plane attack by jihadists or, you know, whoever.
[00:26:12]  Oh, no, it was, it was specifically by jihadists on the G8 conference that earlier in that year in July.
[00:26:20]  And in fact, in Genoa, they stationed anti-aircraft guns around where the conference is supposed to be because they took this threat so seriously.
[00:26:29]  It's also really funny that there is, this is totally has really not a lot to do with what we're talking about, but the Italian deputy prime minister, when talking about it, says, many people were ironic about the Italian secret services and made fun of them.
[00:26:44]  But it turns out they were right.
[00:26:49]  But she was, it does not seem like she was really on the inside of this, at least is not as much as other people, because she does sort of seem to be like the odd man out in some of these.
[00:27:00]  Or am I misreading that?
[00:27:02]  No, no, I think that's true.
[00:27:03]  I mean, I think definitely the key, I mean, definitely the two key players were definitely Cheney and Rumsfeld.
[00:27:09]  And it definitely is unclear.
[00:27:11]  Again, she's trying to, you know, one of the big, as I mentioned, there were these sort of parallel phone calls that were happening.
[00:27:21]  And as an example, like Cheney was sort of not paying attention to this NMCC conference call, which was supposedly the whole coordinating conference call to coordinate the response.
[00:27:32]  And he's not really paying much attention.
[00:27:34]  And right, Rice is a huge part of that.
[00:27:37]  So there's like the official response, which is Rice and Richard Clark and other people like that.
[00:27:44]  And who knows whether they were playing these unwitting parts in this whole thing or whether they knew about it and they were just sort of play acting that they had no clue what was going on.
[00:27:55]  And then, yes, there's the other side of it, which is these parallel calls that were happening on these alternative communications networks.
[00:28:02]  And it seems like Rice was not a part of those parallel calls.
[00:28:06]  She was sort of on the official response.
[00:28:08]  And again, like I mentioned, she tries to get a hold of Rumsfeld.
[00:28:11]  She tries to get a hold of a whole lot of people.
[00:28:14]  And as you mentioned earlier, a lot of people were just out of the country, not available for a variety of reasons.
[00:28:20]  And so she doesn't have a whole lot of luck.
[00:28:22]  Well, speaking of people who are out of, let's say, out of Washington, let's get to everybody's favorite bumbling idiot who is too stupid to have ever planned anything.
[00:28:34]  And it's just a Texas good old boy who, you know, just didn't see it coming, George Bush.
[00:28:41]  George Bush, famously not in town that day.
[00:28:44]  He was in Florida.
[00:28:46]  Yeah, he was in Florida making sure that our children is learning.
[00:28:50]  Yes, yeah, yeah.
[00:28:52]  And other bushisms.
[00:28:53]  And yeah.
[00:28:54]  And yeah, he, you know, there's, there's, again, it's like, why is there so much inconsistency?
[00:29:00]  There are multiple different accounts about who told him when the first plane hit, what he thought about that, what his response was.
[00:29:07]  But yeah, he was in Sarasota, Florida.
[00:29:08]  He was touring a school.
[00:29:10]  I think his motorcade pulled up at around 8.45.
[00:29:14]  And there are multiple different accounts.
[00:29:15]  Again, like, did his chief of staff tell him about the first plane hitting?
[00:29:19]  You know, did he get a call from kind of Lisa Rice?
[00:29:21]  Like, it's unclear who told him.
[00:29:25]  And then, right, he's sitting in the classroom reading a book about goats or something or other when his chief of staff comes up and tells him about the second plane hitting, which is supposedly when he became aware that it was much more than just an accident, which is what everybody had been thinking up until that point.
[00:29:41]  Do you really think they thought it was an accident?
[00:29:43]  Okay, like planner, you know, people planning stuff aside or perhaps having foreknowledge or whatever.
[00:29:50]  I don't know.
[00:29:51]  The idea that a commercial plane would just accidentally think that.
[00:29:57]  I have a hard time the president of the United States being like, oops.
[00:30:03]  There was, so, you know, there wasn't, there were, there have been examples of pretty big planes hitting pretty big buildings.
[00:30:09]  I mean, I can't remember when precisely it was, but there was an example of a, I think it was a B-25 hit the Empire State Building.
[00:30:16]  Yes.
[00:30:17]  I don't remember what year precisely that was.
[00:30:19]  Well, that was during the Great Ape incident when a large ape that was taken from his homeland had captured a small blonde woman.
[00:30:28]  So, yeah.
[00:30:29]  Yes, so the U.S. Army Air Corps.
[00:30:32]  So, you know, I think it was not inconceivable to people that a large, I mean, a B-25 is not a small plane.
[00:30:39]  No, it's not inconceivable to people that it was possible.
[00:30:43]  Obviously, this was a very, you know, 1945 is a very different age from 2001.
[00:30:50]  So it's very different circumstances.
[00:30:51]  But I think at first glance, to many people who were not in the know, I think it's reasonable that it might have appeared to be some kind of bizarre accident.
[00:31:01]  I think it's plausible that people actually did think that.
[00:31:05]  And again, part of this is like, what did Bush know?
[00:31:08]  Right.
[00:31:09]  People were, like, people were telling him that we're not specifying what kind of plane it was.
[00:31:15]  Some people were, and again, there are these different conflicting accounts, but by some of the accounts, they were telling him it was a small plane, or he speculated that it was a small plane.
[00:31:25]  Other people supposedly told him it was a 737, which was a 767, but in any case, a large commercial airliner.
[00:31:30]  So it's not clear what they thought or what they actually believed was happening.
[00:31:36]  Again, leaving aside the fact that they did plan and execute this intentionally, leaving that aside.
[00:31:42]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:31:43]  That's small detail.
[00:31:45]  Leaving that aside, it's not clear what they plausibly could have believed about what was happening.
[00:31:52]  But yeah, I don't think it's inconceivable that at least a lot of people actually did think it was an accident.
[00:31:57]  Obviously, by 903, it becomes clear that it's not an accident.
[00:32:04]  So what did he do with the rest of his day?
[00:32:08]  Well, and again, there's a lot of conflicting reports.
[00:32:13]  Which is why I asked.
[00:32:18]  So he's obviously, when the second plane hits and he gets told, they are trying to rush him to the airport in Sarasota where they're going to pick up Air Force One.
[00:32:34]  And again, this is all of this confusion about when exactly did the shootdown order happen?
[00:32:40]  When did he have this conversation with it?
[00:32:42]  I mean, there's all these conflicting reports about did he give the shootdown order when he was on the plane?
[00:32:48]  Yes.
[00:32:48]  It would have been after 10 a.m.
[00:32:50]  Did he give the shootdown order at an earlier time, which I think is much more likely?
[00:32:53]  I think it probably happened at like 9.45 while he was in the car.
[00:32:58]  So he basically, they drive to the airport basically as fast as they can.
[00:33:01]  We're talking about a positive shootdown order here now.
[00:33:05]  Yes, yes, right, right.
[00:33:08]  Basically, the idea was any plane that is not responding to them, they're just going to shoot it down with National Guard F-15s or F-16s.
[00:33:20]  And so, yeah, they drive into the airport and they basically, the plane sits on the tarmac for quite a while.
[00:33:28]  Yeah, I don't remember exactly when the plane takes off, but sometime after 10 a.m.
[00:33:31]  But this is after it's they they are they're sit the plane is sitting on the tarmac and Bush is in the car and basically this time period is not really accounted for and again I think that it's very likely that they were having this call at 945 with Rumsfeld and Cheney where they were discussing among other things this shootdown order and also some other stuff as well I think took place on that call.
[00:33:54]  What else do you think took place on that call?
[00:33:57]  Well this gets into the me sounding like a sovereign citizen.
[00:34:00]  Yeah I want to be clear Ben feel free.

=== Legal Justification Plans (10:51) ===

[00:34:04]  Look because of corona we're all sovereign citizens now.
[00:34:08]  Oh yeah.
[00:34:08]  Oh baby we're yeah everybody's a sovereign citizen these days.
[00:34:13]  You know this is so this is this whole issue of continuity of government and we kind of touched on it I think the last time that we talked.
[00:34:21]  You know these were these were these doomsday plans that had initially been put in place for a nuclear war.
[00:34:26]  Reagan changed it to be for any kind of circumstance.
[00:34:30]  And then at this point in time they start to activate these plans.
[00:34:35]  And what this means is bureaucrats going to bunkers.
[00:34:39]  But the big thing is this alternative communications network.
[00:34:45]  So one of the people that was involved in continuity of government planning in the 80s was Oliver North.
[00:34:52]  And pretty famously during Iran-Contra, he used this because when you're planning a conspiracy that's illegal, some of the people, for example, like Iran-Contra, some of the people in the government know about it, some people don't.
[00:35:04]  And so if you're communicating over official channels, those things are ostensibly, they don't always, but they're ostensibly supposed to go to the archives.
[00:35:11]  Obviously, lots of people can become aware of this information.
[00:35:14]  Some little whistleblower could give it to Adam Schiff.
[00:35:19]  That's right.
[00:35:20]  They can put together a dossier.
[00:35:21]  Exactly.
[00:35:23]  And so North very famously used this COG, this continuity of government communications network called Flashpoint to communicate with other conspirators in a way that would not be part of the typical channels.
[00:35:38]  And I think that that was a big part of this.
[00:35:41]  So for example, this call I keep referencing between Bush, Rumsfeld, and Cheney at 945 was likely over one of these alternative communications networks.
[00:35:49]  There's an agency called the WHCA, the White House Communications Agency, which is technically part of the military, but it's basically answerable to the White House.
[00:35:58]  And it's a way that the president can communicate directly with people.
[00:36:03]  It's mostly run by the Secret Service.
[00:36:04]  Yeah, I was about to say that's surprising.
[00:36:06]  Yeah.
[00:36:07]  Right.
[00:36:10]  This communications network was probably used during the JFK assassination by certain people as well.
[00:36:15]  But again, it's a part of having these parallel structures so that certain people in the government can be aware of certain things.
[00:36:22]  And you can also have your conspirators who are sharing this information more directly.
[00:36:26]  So this is what anarchists mean by dual power.
[00:36:30]  Yeah.
[00:36:31]  You just set up a little bit of a powerful.
[00:36:33]  This is the government's mutual aid program.
[00:36:36]  Yeah.
[00:36:37]  And I think that that's a big part of this, is that they were putting into place these plans so that they could have this basically an alternative bureaucracy.
[00:36:47]  Like we mentioned, John Yu, for example, doing the torture mill, being part of that.
[00:36:51]  And so that was, I think, part of what they discussed, that they were going to activate this plan that they had.
[00:36:56]  I mean, so Cheney and Rumsfeld had been working on this stuff all through the 80s and 90s.
[00:36:59]  They had sat on these planning meetings for this COG stuff.
[00:37:02]  So they were very intimately involved in it.
[00:37:04]  And when they had the chance to activate it, they jumped at it.
[00:37:09]  Yeah, this is something I just want to puzzle on because we mentioned this, I think, in the first or the second episode.
[00:37:15]  I think it was, I don't know which one it was.
[00:37:17]  But that one of the really not well-told part of this story is the fact that all of this leads to what seems like a very well-planned out very big expansion of executive power, like actually pretty unprecedented.
[00:37:38]  And that like we are still living in the government that basically, I mean, you kind of say it's like a, you know, it's basically like a shadow bureaucracy that gets implemented and that we're still living in this unitary executive theory that basically gets implemented in the minutes between these attacks.
[00:38:01]  Yeah, and it was clearly, it was, you know, A, it was clearly based on stuff that they had been planning for, like I mentioned, Cheney and Rumsfeld had been planning this COG stuff for a long time.
[00:38:10]  Obviously, the Patriot Act was extremely long, and yet it was.
[00:38:14]  It was ready to go.
[00:38:16]  It was so long that literally like barely anyone's read it.
[00:38:19]  Yeah, the people in Congress couldn't read it before they voted on it.
[00:38:21]  They said as much.
[00:38:22]  So yes, I think it's quite clear that they had this stuff ready to go and then they very, very rapidly put it all into place.
[00:38:30]  You know, people who are not directly a part of it, because obviously you can't run a huge bureaucracy by conspiracy.
[00:38:37]  You can't do that.
[00:38:38]  You need memos.
[00:38:39]  You need public.
[00:38:41]  It's in theory a public state.
[00:38:42]  And you do need to have public memos, public laws.
[00:38:46]  that administer this stuff.
[00:38:47]  So you need to provide some kind of legal justification for why you're doing what you're doing so that these functionaries will go and do it, even if they're not a part of whatever your ulterior motives are.
[00:38:58]  So putting this COG stuff into place was, I think, a part of that.
[00:39:01]  It provides a legal justification for, well, hey, we're in this emergency situation.
[00:39:05]  We're going to very quickly write these executive orders.
[00:39:08]  For example, one declaring a state of emergency, which is still in place and has been signed by Obama and Trump since then.
[00:39:15]  Yes.
[00:39:15]  It provides a legal.
[00:39:16]  Can you explain that really quick?
[00:39:17]  Because I don't know if people know that.
[00:39:19]  Yeah.
[00:39:19]  So on September 14th, Bush signed an executive order that placed the United States in a state of emergency as regards Islamic terrorism.
[00:39:31]  And that executive order is the, again, you need legal justification for these things so that these functionaries will feel comfortable doing it.
[00:39:39]  Right.
[00:39:40]  So it has been signed by Obama and it's been signed by Trump and it's been re-upped every single year.
[00:39:46]  It's still in effect.
[00:39:48]  And it provides a part of the legal basis for all of the stuff that's happened since then.
[00:39:53]  Yes.
[00:39:54]  Yeah.
[00:39:55]  Yeah.
[00:39:55]  There's no way.
[00:39:56]  I just like, I don't know, I've said this before, but I just want to like, you know, really impress it on people.
[00:40:00]  Like there is absolutely no way to understand what Trump has done through his administration without understanding what Obama also put into place during his administration, but really what also, I mean, crucially, what Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld did like in these months after and in between like September 11th.
[00:40:23]  Like it's really, I mean, it, you know, these, this is like, you know, Trump is really a continuation rather than, there's nothing abrupt about this man's election and the way that he's governing.
[00:40:35]  This is a direct, direct like line straight from what we're talking about like right now.
[00:40:42]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:40:43]  And again, it all has its roots, its legal justification, or at least its initial legal justification in this stuff that was done during these secret calls that took place, you know, literally half an hour after, in the case, I mean, 10 minutes after the Pentagon was hit, they were having this conversation.
[00:40:58]  So these executive powers that Trump has and that Obama continued had their roots in these legal, these conversations about activating plans and putting into place legal memorandum that took place, like I said, about 10 minutes, less than 10 minutes after the Pentagon was hit.
[00:41:15]  Really has its roots like immediately after these attacks happen.
[00:41:18]  Yeah, and just one last thing just before we move on that I want to pinpoint too is, as you mentioned, if they didn't have these legal memos and these legal justifications, the bureaucracy wouldn't carry this stuff out.
[00:41:33]  And I think that maybe, I don't know, there's like a sense that the law doesn't matter or the state will just do whatever it wants.
[00:41:43]  And like, okay, sure, in a way, in a theoretical way, but in a practical way, like, no, like this, like the United States bureaucracy is fucking massive, like massive.
[00:41:58]  And, you know, these people like won't, if they don't have a legal memo in front of them, like, yeah, the torture memos were bullshit, but they were memos and they needed that legal justification in order for all of the little Eichmans to actually carry out what they needed to do.
[00:42:15]  And I think that's like really important for people to understand.
[00:42:18]  Yeah, I mean, you can, obviously, I think that there was very clearly a conspiracy that existed outside of the bounds of the public state.
[00:42:27]  But to get people inside the government who are not a part of your conspiracy to do the stuff that you want them to do, which is the whole point of your conspiracy, so that you can make the American government do the stuff that will help out your buddies in the oil industry.
[00:42:39]  You need to have some kind of public order, some memorandum giving legal justification.
[00:42:45]  So, yeah, the law is real.
[00:42:50]  I think a lot of people think when they hear like 9-11 conspiracy theories, or like, you know, they hear actually about any sort of quote-unquote conspiracy.
[00:42:58]  I mean, they are literal conspiracies, but you know what I mean?
[00:43:01]  Is that they're like, well, it's too many people.
[00:43:03]  It's too big.
[00:43:04]  Like, there's no way that many people can keep a secret.
[00:43:06]  But if you have this really just core group of people doing it, that's really not that many people.
[00:43:12]  And I mean, a lot of it is, I think, predicated on like basically being able to predict the actions of others.
[00:43:18]  You know what I mean?
[00:43:19]  Like it's all of this, it's totally within the realm of reason to basically plan for what came after 9-11 just by use of this like, you know, alternative sort of state network made up of very few people.
[00:43:36]  Yeah.
[00:43:36]  And I mean, obviously the other part of it is compartmentalization, right?
[00:43:40]  People in the military do not ask questions.
[00:43:42]  You give them orders.
[00:43:43]  They don't ask why you're giving them these orders.
[00:43:45]  They just carry them out.
[00:43:46]  That's true of most people in the bureaucracy and the U.S. government.
[00:43:51]  You know, they don't ask for why you're telling them to do this, and you don't need to tell them why.
[00:43:55]  If you're the president, if you're the Secretary of Defense, you can give an order and they will carry out that order as long as they believe it's lawful.
[00:44:01]  And even if they don't believe it's lawful.
[00:44:04]  It's funny.
[00:44:05]  The captain of that aircraft carrier that had like a big COVID outbreak is getting fired now.
[00:44:10]  Yes.
[00:44:10]  Yep.
[00:44:11]  So that, yeah, just important case.
[00:44:14]  Yeah.
[00:44:14]  You can't do that kind of stuff.
[00:44:15]  You can't do that stuff.
[00:44:17]  Yeah, so it's, it's, you know, you can have a very small group of people, and when you have this, when you have this government that has no qualms about bombing people, killing people, torturing people in the first place, as long as they're given the order to do that, once you give them the order to do it, they'll do it.
[00:44:33]  So speaking of the military, I do want to mention really quick before we get into the actual buildings that there were some odd, you know, we had mentioned before with whether, you know, shoot down, you know, there was these orders being given and when, that there was a hard time even finding jets to scramble, basically.

=== Pentagon Crash Mysteries (15:50) ===

[00:44:56]  There were basically what is called like war games going on scheduled like the day of 9-11.
[00:45:02]  Yes, NORAD was in like some pretty intense ones.
[00:45:06]  Yeah, there was this, there were a number of ones.
[00:45:08]  They were mostly, they were mostly interrelated.
[00:45:11]  They were different parts of the military doing different things, but it was under this NORAD Vigilant Guardian was the name of the main one.
[00:45:20]  And it was weird because in previous years, they had mostly been carried out in October, November timeframe, and this one happened much earlier.
[00:45:29]  And there's some people who have seen, claim to have seen evidence that this one was scheduled for that same timeframe and then was rescheduled to be earlier at some point.
[00:45:40]  That's less clear, but certainly it is the case that for some reason this one was held in September as compared to the usual October, November timeframe.
[00:45:47]  And like you mentioned, there was, so for example, when Flight 11, when the FAA first made their call to Northeast Air Defense Station, their first question was, is this a drill?
[00:45:59]  Is this part of the exercise or is this real?
[00:46:02]  And that happens throughout.
[00:46:05]  If you listen to the FAA recordings and their conversations between the FAA controllers and the military, there are all of these people who are confused about is what's happening part of the exercise or is it actually real?
[00:46:21]  It's actually, if you do listen to it, and I encourage our listeners too, like it is mind-blowing, like how much confusion there was and like bad communication.
[00:46:31]  Like no one, I mean, I guess it's, I mean, I don't mean in a sense where it's like, okay, this insane attack just happened.
[00:46:40]  Of course, there's bad communication.
[00:46:41]  But it's like, it's almost like a joke.
[00:46:44]  Like it sounds like a kind of like a improv game or something.
[00:46:51]  Yeah.
[00:46:52]  Yeah.
[00:46:52]  I mean, everybody, every, you know, another huge thing that you mentioned was that a lot of these planes, you know, usually there are at least some National Guard aircraft on standby in place to intercept, because intercepts happen for a variety of different reasons.
[00:47:10]  You know, there have been a, for example, there have been at least several dozen intercepts in the in the you know decade or so leading up to this.
[00:47:16]  So it does happen.
[00:47:17]  And an intercept just means that a that a fighter goes out meets some plane that's out there for some reason, doesn't mean that they necessarily shoot.
[00:47:24]  Yeah um, and in this case there are.
[00:47:27]  There are numerous instances where uh, the FAA gets in touch with the whoever's running the local air defense and they're told that they don't have, they don't have fighters accessible um, and that yeah, they have to go pretty far out.
[00:47:41]  They, they start, I mean, it's like they couldn't find one in Ohio, they couldn't find ones in like um, I think they went even further than Ohio, further west than Ohio.
[00:47:50]  Yeah, to respond to flight 93, which was, which was, you know, in the obviously crash in Pennsylvania, was thereabouts they were, they were going all the way out, I think, to Nebraska was where they finally found jets that could fly over.
[00:48:01]  Now, for which is insane, that's like totally insane right right, the time, the like, kind of like time that that could even, you know, lead to a response yeah, and then, and then even even the you know the so so, two of the planes that that did actually make their way, there were two F-15s that were sent out of Otis Air Force base uh, in Massachusetts.
[00:48:21]  Um, and even those two it they.
[00:48:23]  There was so much confusion about where to send them that they basically just ended up sending them over the East River and they just kind of stayed there.
[00:48:31]  Yeah, this was, and this was wow, you know, it's not very hard for an F-15 to make it from New York to Washington Dc.
[00:48:37]  That's a pretty short trip for uh, for a high-powered military jet.
[00:48:41]  Yeah, I mean, people gotta say these are a lot faster than like, commercial airlines.
[00:48:46]  Yeah, and they, and they typically, you know they, they obviously are not gonna fly a supersonic on a day-to-day basis.
[00:48:51]  That would yeah, that would be pretty damaging.
[00:48:53]  But in a circumstance like this, they did.
[00:48:55]  I mean the, the ones that flew from Massachusetts to New York uh, you know, were flying several, you know uh many many, many hundreds of miles an hour.
[00:49:03]  Um, but right, these two planes from Massachusetts were just hanging out over the East River uh, while flying, when they could have yes, when they absolutely could have been, absolutely at the Pentagon for for a, for an F-15 to intercept a large commercial airliner?
[00:49:19]  Uh, would have been, it would have been no problem.
[00:49:21]  Uh, but they they, they did not get that order.
[00:49:25]  There were jets that were scrambled from from Langley at air force base in Langley Virginia um, and those jets, but by the time those jets were in the air, it was it was probably too late.
[00:49:35]  Yeah, everyone should like look at and listen to these tapes.
[00:49:38]  I mean, it really is like Keystone, government, Keystone cops.
[00:49:41]  It's amazing.
[00:49:41]  It's so weird hearing these calls.
[00:49:43]  And it's funny too, because, I mean, there was like some weird, you mentioned like there was some weird, there's weird communication too, where like he's basically like the guy, you know, trying to get these planes is basically told by multiple different people, not just, oh, we don't have them, but like, no, I can't give you any.
[00:50:05]  Right, right.
[00:50:06]  Which is very weird.
[00:50:07]  Yeah.
[00:50:08]  And that kind of can, so the idea is that you're supposed to go up the chain.
[00:50:13]  So they, so the planes that were scrambled from Otis, there was a direct conversation between the person who was running Boston control for the FAA and the person in charge of Northeast Air Defense, or at least one of their subordinates.
[00:50:25]  So a regional air defense group in a regional FAA, in theory, and this was the explanation for why these jets were not scrambled as fast as they were.
[00:50:36]  You were supposed to go up the chain.
[00:50:38]  You were supposed to go, and the head of the FAA was supposed to get in touch with basically the Secretary of Defense's office to get this authorized.
[00:50:47]  That chain wasn't doing so great at 9-11.
[00:50:50]  No, because key people were not there.
[00:50:54]  A huge number of people in very key positions as a part of this chain were either out and they had a subordinate step in on a temporary basis, or for several of them, it was their first day on the job.
[00:51:09]  Like these are people who, you know, again, multiple key positions in the air defense and in the communication between the FAA and the air defense.
[00:51:19]  A lot of these people were literally on their first day of the job, or it was not their usual role.
[00:51:23]  They were just goddamn rookies in there.
[00:51:26]  Yes.
[00:51:27]  Very.
[00:51:27]  I mean, it's really hilarious.
[00:51:29]  It's like, it's really, anyone, I mean, it took me actually seeing our coincidence.
[00:51:35]  A visualization of it.
[00:51:36]  Like someone had made like a little chart and just showed how many people were out that day and how few of these people actually had somebody that could like sort of step in and act in their role.
[00:51:46]  Like I can't remember who it was.
[00:51:48]  I think it was the, it was either it was, I think it might have been either the hostage guy at the FAA or maybe even the FAA chief himself, but somebody in this really highly important role was out and did not have a replacement.
[00:52:02]  There was no one else who could do his job.
[00:52:04]  Yeah.
[00:52:04]  And that like it, that, that, I mean, these chains of command, especially in situations, you know, in government and, I mean, sort of civil as well, bureaucracy, they're hugely important.
[00:52:16]  You can't just kind of go around them.
[00:52:17]  And so that caused massive delays.
[00:52:19]  And again, if the attack had happened the day before or the day after, these people, at least for the people who had a stand-in, they would have been there.
[00:52:28]  You know, it's just this one day.
[00:52:31]  It just so happened that it all sort of lined up this way.
[00:52:34]  And again, I think this was part, you know, there were certain people in certain positions who knew and they made this happen and ensured that the response would be slowed by just enough, by just enough.
[00:52:45]  And that actually, that point really makes this sort of like, really kind of puts to rest a lot of the concerns people have about like, oh, well, this is such a big conspiracy.
[00:52:55]  You know, all these people can't be in it.
[00:52:56]  It's like, they don't all have to be in on it.
[00:52:59]  Like, it's, it's, you know, if you are, if you are someone like Cheney or Rumsfeld, you understand that if it's someone's first day on the job, they are, the probabilities are in your favor that they're going to biff it and that they're going to fuck up and they don't know what to do and they don't have the training.
[00:53:14]  And so it doesn't like, it doesn't need to be, I think that's what people got to understand.
[00:53:18]  And that's true with a lot of stuff we talk about.
[00:53:21]  Not everybody has to be in on it.
[00:53:23]  Yep.
[00:53:24]  And they plan for redundancies, right?
[00:53:29]  There were four planes that were hijacked, supposedly.
[00:53:33]  And only three of them hit their targets.
[00:53:36]  If only two of them had hit their targets or if only one of them had hit their target, it's very likely that the political response would have been basically the same, right?
[00:53:46]  Precisely.
[00:53:48]  And again, we don't know what that fourth plane was headed for.
[00:53:50]  It could have been the Capitol.
[00:53:51]  That's what a lot of people speculate.
[00:53:53]  You know, it could have been any other building in Washington.
[00:53:55]  And again, if that fourth plane had hit, I don't think it would have changed things very much, right?
[00:53:59]  I think we would have ended up with basically the same political response.
[00:54:02]  Even if that small civilian jet that was later said to be an airliner hadn't hit the Pentagon, it'd probably be the same thing.
[00:54:10]  Yes.
[00:54:11]  Yeah.
[00:54:11]  Well, yeah.
[00:54:14]  We should talk.
[00:54:15]  I mean, I have questions about the Pentagon.
[00:54:17]  Can we talk Pentagon real quick?
[00:54:18]  Yeah.
[00:54:19]  Because I was like, oh, I want to get into jet fuel and steel beams, but let's talk about the Pentagon first because I got some questions about if this actually happened the way they, I mean.
[00:54:32]  Liz, are you a no-planer?
[00:54:33]  Are you a no-planer?
[00:54:34]  Liz, okay.
[00:54:35]  I will rat Liz out right now.
[00:54:38]  First of all, I want to be clear.
[00:54:39]  I'm not a no-planer, but maybe it was not the same that.
[00:54:43]  I have dabbled.
[00:54:44]  Okay.
[00:54:45]  I have dabbled in no-planing.
[00:54:47]  I have not committed to the no-plane lifestyle.
[00:54:51]  But I've been known to partake in some no-plane names.
[00:54:55]  I call Liz a hydroplaner.
[00:54:57]  When she drinks a little water and gets a little less lightheaded, she starts believing there's a plane.
[00:55:02]  Yeah, see, these are the fault lines inside the 9-11 truth community that people just don't know about.
[00:55:08]  It's like Tumblr drama, but it's for people who are on BBS one in 2003.
[00:55:14]  They need little emojis to put, like, so we could be like, no plane.
[00:55:19]  Let's just say where we stand.
[00:55:20]  We've established Liz is a no-planer.
[00:55:23]  I'm not a no-planer.
[00:55:24]  I just like the idea of there not being a plane.
[00:55:26]  Okay.
[00:55:26]  Well, Liz is partial, or she has sentimental feelings.
[00:55:30]  I'm no plane curious.
[00:55:32]  By the way, what?
[00:55:33]  Yeah, okay.
[00:55:35]  I am a person who thinks that it possibly was a different plane.
[00:55:40]  Yeah.
[00:55:42]  I'm not casting that.
[00:55:43]  I like that theory, too.
[00:55:45]  Ben, where are you standing on the plane issue?
[00:55:48]  Yeah, I think it was definitely a plane.
[00:55:51]  Again, I'm with you, Briss.
[00:55:52]  I don't know if it was the plane that they said it was.
[00:55:56]  Yeah.
[00:55:57]  That was a pretty.
[00:56:00]  There was some fancy flying going on there that day.
[00:56:03]  Yes.
[00:56:03]  Well, wait, let me back up.
[00:56:05]  Okay.
[00:56:05]  Let's, just because I'm sure our listeners don't understand.
[00:56:08]  So we're talking about the Pentagon crash.
[00:56:12]  But why would people think that there's discrepancy with how the story has been told?
[00:56:21]  Like literally just about how the crash happened.
[00:56:24]  Well, right.
[00:56:25]  So the story is that it's Flight 77 that hit.
[00:56:29]  One of the big things for years was the very weird looking surveillance footage from a.
[00:56:37]  This was right near a parking lot and so there was an entrance to a parking lot that had a camera that was just there for the, for the parking lot, basically to see who went in and out, and there were frames missing from the and there still are frames missing from this video, and so it's very it.
[00:56:58]  You really cannot make out in this video footage what it is that hit the Pentagon.
[00:57:02]  So that's a big part of it.
[00:57:04]  So we're talking like 15 FPS, 30 F.
[00:57:06]  They got to get a better NVIDIA card not, but even beyond that, actually there are frames that are that are missing, that have been taken out.
[00:57:15]  Yes, that were taken out at some point for some reason.
[00:57:18]  Uh, the chain of custody on the on the.
[00:57:20]  Uh video footage is like very sketchy, like it's unclear who had it and when and like.
[00:57:25]  I love this so much.
[00:57:27]  None of it was not a great day for the for chain integrity.
[00:57:31]  It really was not.
[00:57:32]  I mean, we haven't even talked about the black boxes being missing, but somehow they've got a passport.
[00:57:35]  I mean like but but in this case.
[00:57:38]  But let's focus.
[00:57:39]  I guess we should focus on on the Pentagon, so yeah, so there's, there's that whole issue and you really can't make out what it is.
[00:57:44]  The second thing is the.
[00:57:46]  The, the actual impact site is, is not not super consistent with a commercial airliner hitting a building of that type.
[00:57:57]  Like the just the way that the entry point and like how that all looks is just very weird.
[00:58:05]  It does not look like you would expect this to look.
[00:58:08]  I mean, it's like, I understand why there are no planers.
[00:58:13]  I totally get it.
[00:58:14]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:58:15]  Well, also, we should talk about where in the Pentagon it's hit.
[00:58:18]  Because it's an area that was also recently retrofitted.
[00:58:22]  Yes, it was an area that was recently basically reinforced to survive not plane crashes specifically, but like bombs and things like that.
[00:58:31]  And other, other, most of the rest of the Pentagon did not have this retrofitting.
[00:58:36]  It was like literally basically this section.
[00:58:38]  This section also had like the budget offices.
[00:58:41]  Yes.
[00:58:41]  Yeah, it had like a bunch of computer servers, didn't it?
[00:58:43]  Isn't it funny in accounting?
[00:58:45]  A lot of accountants were there.
[00:58:47]  I mean, a lot of the people that died were DOD accountants.
[00:58:49]  It's also weird that they actually don't have the exact number, I believe, of people who died too.
[00:58:54]  That I believe goes up and down.
[00:58:56]  It goes down a little bit.
[00:58:56]  Yeah, well, it goes up and down.
[00:58:59]  Actually, yeah, no, it is.
[00:59:01]  I was looking at this this morning.
[00:59:02]  Fuck that.
[00:59:02]  Yeah.
[00:59:03]  I will say that.
[00:59:05]  There are discrepancies in the reports of the amount of casualties.
[00:59:08]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:59:09]  So I totally understand based on the weird video evidence and the weird-looking crash site that, you know, I totally understand why people think that it could have been a missile.
[00:59:22]  The other thing, of course, is the, well, sorry, go ahead.
[00:59:25]  No, I was going to, no, I think we were both leading to the same place because Brace mentioned how this crash actually happened and the insane flight pattern that this plane allegedly took.
[00:59:38]  Right.
[00:59:38]  Plane and quotation marks.
[00:59:40]  Plane.
[00:59:40]  Yeah, plane and quotation marks.
[00:59:42]  Because the plane in quotation marks hit basically exactly parallel to the ground at obviously a very low altitude because it struck the side of the building.
[00:59:51]  So it basically hit perpendicular to the side of the building, which is a pretty, that involves obviously flying at low altitude in a commercial airliner that is not really built to do that from somebody who is not a good pilot by all accounts.
[01:00:05]  Well, yes, and savvy listeners will remember we spoke about how specifically this pilot, I'm forgetting which one it was, but he was like notably so bad that the flight school called to try to revoke him having a pilot's license because he was, and the FAA, of course, never got back to the flight school because he was so like demonstrably like incapable, like not capable of flying a plane.
[01:00:35]  Yeah, yeah, this was Hani Hanjour who was who was training out in Arizona.
[01:00:38]  Yeah, we talked about the fact that like his, yeah, and of course the FBI had been looking into him as well and didn't get anywhere with that for some reason.

=== Pilots Debunk Shot Down Theory (08:38) ===

[01:00:47]  But the and the flight path to get to where he supposedly ended up being at this total directly parallel to the ground hitting perpendicular to the side of the building was this basically perfect corkscrew maneuver.
[01:00:58]  Yeah.
[01:00:59]  Like I've seen pilots' testimonies about this and they're like, this is, I couldn't do this.
[01:01:04]  It's exceedingly difficult because obviously, so if you're, I'm making hand gestures which no one can see, but if you're flying at a relatively high altitude and you need to get your plane to a lower altitude while simultaneously being back where you started, right?
[01:01:17]  So you need to do a you need to do a circle in two dimensions and then you simultaneously need to be dropping altitude at the same time.
[01:01:24]  So you need to execute this corkscrew maneuver, which is not an easy thing to pull off in a, by the way, completely full of fuel, right?
[01:01:33]  These planes, typically a commercial airliner lands, not empty, but not super full like this one was.
[01:01:41]  The point theoretically was that they were full of fuel so they would cause a fire.
[01:01:46]  And it would still be right, right, precisely.
[01:01:50]  So this was a, and as you mentioned, like lots of commercial airline pilots have attempted to replicate it.
[01:01:56]  And some of them have been successful, but not usually on their first try.
[01:02:00]  It's a very difficult thing to do.
[01:02:02]  And certainly Hani Hanjur was not a good pilot.
[01:02:07]  And let's be clear, this was his first try.
[01:02:10]  Right.
[01:02:10]  Right.
[01:02:11]  He had never, he had definitely, he had never flown a multi-engine plane.
[01:02:15]  He had never flown a plane of this type before.
[01:02:17]  Like, this was his first time flying.
[01:02:20]  I mean, yeah.
[01:02:21]  And if any of these guys even flew these planes, which is something we can maybe get into.
[01:02:25]  Absolutely.
[01:02:26]  To be clear.
[01:02:28]  This plane came in at such like you really, I encourage people listening to look up a visualization of this because it's astounding.
[01:02:37]  The plane comes in basically like upside down almost.
[01:02:43]  And it's clipping.
[01:02:44]  It's flying so close to the ground, so close to the ground that it is clipping like lamp posts and like knocking over chain leak fences and stuff.
[01:02:54]  I mean, again, not a great day for links and chains.
[01:02:58]  But it is like, it is something that like, it is like a hot shot, like Luke Skywalker move, not the move of like a guy who could barely fly a fucking Cessna.
[01:03:09]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:03:10]  Yeah, one, one thing to plug, I don't endorse all of the conclusions reached by this documentary, but if you look up on YouTube, it gets taken down a bunch, but on YouTube, there's a documentary called 9-11 in New Pearl Harbor, and it has all this stuff in it.
[01:03:22]  It's got all the FAA stuff, like recordings.
[01:03:25]  It's got stuff about this flight plan.
[01:03:27]  It's got all this stuff.
[01:03:29]  It's really good.
[01:03:30]  It's like six hours long or something like that.
[01:03:32]  And again, like, I don't endorse everything that's in there, but as far as like having the primary evidence, it's got some good stuff in there, including this.
[01:03:38]  Yeah, especially for visualization stuff.
[01:03:41]  I think that, yeah, the visualization really helps because it's when you see it laid out, it's completely like nonsensical.
[01:03:49]  It doesn't make any, it doesn't make any sense.
[01:03:51]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:03:54]  But I will say the one reason I'm like, I don't know about the missile thing, I feel like there would have been too many witnesses for it to be a missile and it would have come from somewhere.
[01:04:04]  Yeah, and it, you know, it flew right over the highway right there.
[01:04:07]  Yeah.
[01:04:07]  So there were a lot of people.
[01:04:08]  And that's, again, that's why I'm not a no-planer.
[01:04:10]  Like, people would have there were a lot of witnesses who saw a plane of some kind.
[01:04:16]  Again, was it the commercial airline that they said it was?
[01:04:19]  Was it a different plane like that?
[01:04:21]  I think it's still uncertain, but it definitely seems like a plane of some kind.
[01:04:24]  Well, it's also just like it's clear that the people who did this attack, which by which I mean the government officials we mentioned earlier, that they have no like compunctions about hijacking a plane and crashing it into a building.
[01:04:40]  So I'm not sure why they would pick a missile for this one.
[01:04:42]  Right.
[01:04:43]  Right.
[01:04:44]  Ready for the end.
[01:04:46]  So the second plane hit at 9.02.
[01:04:53]  Saw it live on a hotel TV talking on my sal with you.
[01:05:01]  You said this would happen just like that.
[01:05:05]  It did.
[01:05:08]  Wrong about the feeling, wrong about the sound, but right to say.
[01:05:13]  I feel like before we get into the towers, we do have to mention, like we said, the fourth plane, the Flight 93, which crash lands, allegedly, and also becomes the subject of a fine film.
[01:05:31]  It is the Ringo star of the 93.
[01:05:37]  I guess that's why they made the movie.
[01:05:40]  But I don't, you know what's funny is I will say, like, even people who are perhaps not as truthed out as we are don't believe the official story about 93.
[01:05:53]  Like they are, they concede that it was probably shot down, which I think is so funny, just like normies or people who don't consider themselves truthers.
[01:06:04]  Yeah, it definitely, I mean, so there's a lot of, there, obviously there's the shootdown order that was given, which the commission report says happened later.
[01:06:15]  I think probably happened at around 9.45, something like that, which is a completely consistent timeline with Flight 93 getting shot down.
[01:06:24]  So it totally makes sense that that order would have been out there.
[01:06:27]  I'm not really clear why it would have been shot down.
[01:06:31]  I have a couple theories on that.
[01:06:33]  I'd be curious to hear them because I don't really know.
[01:06:35]  So I think that they saw how smashingly successful they'd been so far.
[01:06:41]  And I think it would have been extremely suspicious had they not done that.
[01:06:46]  Like, I think it was insurance.
[01:06:49]  Like, I think having a flight hijacked was insurance for if the other three didn't go as planned or if one of the other ones didn't go as planned.
[01:06:56]  But the fact that all three prior ones had, you know, things were going well, let's say.
[01:07:05]  Then it makes sense to me that that this, that they they, they might as well just shoot this one down.
[01:07:10]  So it wasn't like I mean one could imagine they would face some some harsh questions uh, about why that did not happen um, if it hadn't.
[01:07:19]  But it also gave people martyrs too yeah yeah, it gave martyrs in a different sense than the martyrs, the rest of the victims yeah I, I mean I, the other.
[01:07:34]  The other thing is that the crash site is just totally bonkers and is like I mean basically, when investigators showed up, there was like a hole in the ground there.
[01:07:46]  There was no plane, I mean it was.
[01:07:49]  It was just like blown to dust right yeah, I mean it's not it.
[01:07:53]  It basically just is not consistent with, I mean, you could look at photos yourself and, like the early, like people who were on the scene obviously the NTSB report gets gets massaged, but the people who were on the scene early on, like they all, like it just doesn't make any sense.
[01:08:06]  It's like a little tiny hole in the ground in the turf uh, that is smoking.
[01:08:11]  So it's, it's not it.
[01:08:13]  You know, either it was not the commercial airliner that crashed, or right, or that it was shot down and and what was left was this this, you know, maybe some pieces that uh, the more intact ones that created this, this wreckage yeah uh it's, it's pretty amazing and it's, it's the, the.
[01:08:29]  For me, i've always thought that there was such a tremendous sort of propaganda effort around that, like around sort of the, the fighting back against the um, the hijackers, that that the movie there was, the phone calls as well.
[01:08:44]  Yeah remember, that's like a really important piece is that you get audio of people calling in that the plane yeah, you've got let's roll, but also just like the people calling their families yeah yeah, and it's it's, it's.
[01:08:59]  I've always thought that that was that was really useful to to, to sort of to Bush and Company here, because it it basically gives them this like sort of semi, not positive, but this, this sort of kind of uplifting story about these people sacrificing themselves to save whoever would have, you know, their plane would have hit yep um yeah, that makes sense to me.

=== Owned by the State (02:40) ===

[01:09:25]  Well I okay, we've teased it long enough.
[01:09:28]  It's time.
[01:09:29]  Let's talk towers.
[01:09:30]  There's two, the twins, so first of all yes, let's triplets, first of all, what?
[01:09:37]  So, what's?
[01:09:38]  What are the World Trade Center towers like?
[01:09:41]  What's going on in these things.
[01:09:42]  I think a lot of people you know, you hear 9-11, you hear the twin towers but uh, what are we talking about here?
[01:09:48]  I mean a lot of, a lot of you know.
[01:09:49]  We talked about like there's uh, our this show's favorite Deutsche BANK uh, had a lot of offices, there was a lot of.
[01:09:56]  It was a lot of Finance WAR Church and Little Eichmanns uh, inside that building, inside both of those buildings um, and it was, I mean, it was a, it was a, it was owned by the.
[01:10:06]  So these buildings were all.
[01:10:07]  This whole complex was owned by the PORT Authority OF NEW York AND NEW Jersey and it was basically running out as office space.
[01:10:12]  I mean, a whole number of downtown finance companies had offices uh, in these towers.
[01:10:17]  Deutschbank just mentioned Lehman Brothers, a lot of them, uh.
[01:10:21]  And then World Trade Center Seven, I think we mentioned earlier but, but the CIA had some offices there um, it was a.
[01:10:27]  Solomon Brothers had a had a major office in World Trade Center Seven uh, and that was also the one of New York City's emergency operations centers was also in World Trade Center Seven uh, so there's a lot going on in these, in these three buildings uh, and they were, they were owned, or at least they, the offices, were leased out, I guess by a guy named Larry Silverstein.
[01:10:48]  Yes, he had, he had, just I don't again, at the two months before I don't yeah, I don't know the like precisely the ownership structure, like how exactly it works, but basically he purchased the buildings, in essence and uh two, two months before it happened uh, Larry Silverstein bought these things and he took out insurance uh, policies on both buildings as well um, so I think the total, I think the total price for World Trade Center One and Two that he paid was three billion dollars um,
[01:11:18]  and he ended up, he ended up getting paid.
[01:11:21]  He tried to claim six billion dollars on the insurance policy.
[01:11:24]  I think it was actually seven.
[01:11:25]  Yeah he, some crazy number because it was two attacks.
[01:11:28]  So he said well, I get double the payout the, the court, there was a settlement and I think he ended up getting something like four and a half billion um, but he, I mean so again the, the planes struck.
[01:11:38]  I can't remember which building his office was in um, but obviously they.
[01:11:42]  They struck it around the time that most people would be showing up, so like 8 30 8 45, 9 o'clock, you know, in that time frame.
[01:11:47]  He he took a meeting in his office every single morning, but not that morning.
[01:11:53]  But not that morning because his wife had scheduled a doctor's appointment for him that he forgot about, and so he was like stuck, I think, in Midtown traffic at the time to go to his dermatologist.

=== Explosions And Damage (15:40) ===

[01:12:05]  Always the wife, I will say.
[01:12:09]  This show has in the past staked out a fairly comprehensive pro-nagging position, vis-a-vis wives, et cetera.
[01:12:19]  Sure.
[01:12:20]  I got to say, nagging saves the day again.
[01:12:23]  Yep.
[01:12:24]  Yep.
[01:12:25]  No, I think he was actually supposed to be either in the meeting or he also had a breakfast date that he skipped out on.
[01:12:32]  Yeah.
[01:12:32]  And I mean, like he said himself, every single day he was in his office at that time, except for this one day.
[01:12:39]  Yeah.
[01:12:40]  You know, for some bizarre reason, he was not there.
[01:12:43]  Maybe.
[01:12:45]  Let's talk about, I don't even know where we should begin on this.
[01:12:49]  Well, I mean, do you think Jet Fuel can melt steel beams?
[01:12:53]  Good question.
[01:12:54]  I think that question has been answered pretty unambiguously.
[01:12:57]  Even NIST admits Jet Fuel cannot melt steel beams.
[01:13:01]  That's right.
[01:13:02]  So basically, when the, so the first plane hits, this is the North Tower, right?
[01:13:08]  Right.
[01:13:09]  And that's around 845, 847.
[01:13:13]  Yeah, I think it was 847.
[01:13:14]  I think that was exactly when it hit.
[01:13:17]  And people are already, like, as it's happened, I mean, you know, people are fleeing, but people are already on the ground looking at the damage before the second plane comes.
[01:13:27]  Right?
[01:13:28]  Yeah, that's right.
[01:13:29]  And actually, this is like a, so I'll kind of out myself already.
[01:13:34]  I'm definitely a controlled demolition believer.
[01:13:36]  Yes.
[01:13:37]  I think it definitely was.
[01:13:39]  They call him Benny Squibbs.
[01:13:41]  That's right.
[01:13:42]  I would love, man, Squibbs.
[01:13:44]  I've seen Squibbs in my nightmares.
[01:13:45]  I mean, that is some scary shit.
[01:13:47]  But there were two independent witnesses in the North Tower, or sorry, rather in the South Tower, World Trade Center II, who both heard a massive explosion in the basement.
[01:14:04]  And one of them was an engineer who was working in a sub-basement.
[01:14:09]  He hears this huge explosion.
[01:14:11]  He goes upstairs.
[01:14:12]  I don't recall his name exactly.
[01:14:13]  This is all stuff, by the way, pulled from History Commons, which I encourage people to check out.
[01:14:18]  We will link to it.
[01:14:19]  Yeah, they've got a great 9-11 timeline.
[01:14:22]  And he's down in the sub-basement.
[01:14:23]  He goes upstairs.
[01:14:24]  And he, actually, both the people I'm going to mention were witnessed the 93 World Trade Center bombing, which was a bomb in the basement, which had its own weird ties to the FBI.
[01:14:36]  And Muhammad Ada.
[01:14:38]  Yeah.
[01:14:40]  But he goes up to the floor above him.
[01:14:44]  And this, in his own words, this 50-ton hydraulic press that was used to make parts for various purposes was just obliterated.
[01:14:53]  It was just gone.
[01:14:54]  And he goes up to the parking garage and there's huge, huge amounts of damage.
[01:14:59]  Now, his timeframe is uncertain.
[01:15:03]  Obviously, most normal people were not keeping track of exactly what time everything happened.
[01:15:07]  But this kind of damage is not consistent with a plane hitting between the 93rd and the 99th floors of the building.
[01:15:14]  It just isn't possible to destroy a 50-ton solid metal piece of equipment and to cause huge damage.
[01:15:22]  Without whole collapse, absolutely not.
[01:15:24]  Right.
[01:15:24]  It just doesn't make any sense.
[01:15:26]  A second witness, a janitor, who has been hailed as a hero because he was one of the people.
[01:15:31]  He was one of the few people in the North Tower that had a master key.
[01:15:35]  And he was unlocking doors for firefighters.
[01:15:37]  He was going up the stairs.
[01:15:38]  He also heard this explosion.
[01:15:41]  He heard this explosion happen.
[01:15:43]  And then he did hear the second explosion.
[01:15:45]  Him and his boss heard the second explosion, which was the plane hitting.
[01:15:49]  And the damage, and he also witnessed a co-worker of his came into the office that he was in in one of the sub-basement floors.
[01:15:57]  And this person was burned quite severely.
[01:16:00]  Burned?
[01:16:01]  Burned?
[01:16:01]  Yeah.
[01:16:01]  Yes, burned.
[01:16:02]  Burned very severely.
[01:16:04]  The explanation that NIST gave for this was that jet fuel had traveled down the elevator shaft and it was on fire.
[01:16:13]  And it caused this damage.
[01:16:18]  That's insane.
[01:16:19]  It doesn't make any sense.
[01:16:21]  The volume of fuel that's carried on a commercial airliner versus the volume of 90 plus stories of elevator shaft.
[01:16:28]  This is the dumbest motherfucking thing I've ever heard in my life.
[01:16:34]  They're telling me that jet fuel, flaming jet fuel, traveled 90 fucking stories down an elevator shaft and then came out of the elevator shaft like the fucking shining blood and burned this dude.
[01:16:49]  What?
[01:16:50]  That's- that's the du- wha- What?
[01:16:53]  It just doesn't make any sense.
[01:16:54]  It's the magic fuel theory.
[01:16:57]  Also, shouldn't it have melted through all the steel beams?
[01:16:59]  Right, exactly.
[01:17:00]  It's like the double fuel hypothesis, right?
[01:17:02]  That the fuel simultaneously all went down the elevator shaft to cause this damage in the basement, but also was creating enough heat that it was causing the trusses to sag on those 90 sub-floors.
[01:17:16]  It just doesn't make any sense.
[01:17:18]  I mean, it's just ludicrous.
[01:17:19]  And again, I think this is like part of the evidence for the idea that there were explosives that were somehow planted in this building at some point.
[01:17:27]  Well, other people start seeing explosions later on, right?
[01:17:31]  Yeah, there's so, you know, there are tons of, I mean, first off, and you could check, you can look at video footage, there's tons of explosives damage in the lobbies of these buildings.
[01:17:42]  And again, the NIST theory is that this jet fuel traveled down the elevator shafts and causes damage.
[01:17:48]  But it just isn't consistent with that.
[01:17:50]  It's not fire damage.
[01:17:51]  It's, you know, windows blown out.
[01:17:55]  I mean, multiple firefighters, police officers, people who would know said it looked like a bomb had gone off.
[01:18:02]  And it just is not consistent with a plane hitting, you know, again, 90 floors above the ground.
[01:18:08]  It just isn't possible for it to cause that kind of damage on the ground floor.
[01:18:12]  And then right before the buildings are collapsing, you have tons and tons of eyewitnesses reporting, hearing explosions.
[01:18:21]  And this was sort of...
[01:18:22]  In both towers.
[01:18:23]  On both towers, absolutely, on both towers.
[01:18:26]  And this was sort of written off as, well, they heard deformation.
[01:18:30]  People's memories are unreliable.
[01:18:34]  But some of these are people who, you know, respect the truths.
[01:18:38]  These were people who had seen combat in the Gulf War.
[01:18:42]  Some of these veterans who were in the fire department and police department, I mean, they know the difference between an explosion and a deformation.
[01:18:49]  It's just, it doesn't sound like the giant booms that all of these people report hearing.
[01:18:55]  And I mean, you can hear it yourself if you watch some of that video footage.
[01:18:58]  I mean, it does not, when a building collapses, and if you've seen footage of, well, we can get to the fact that these types of buildings also have never collapsed from fire before, but that's a separate issue.
[01:19:09]  But like, it doesn't sound like metal deformation.
[01:19:12]  It sounds like explosions, and in fact, a series of explosions, which is what a lot of people reported here.
[01:19:16]  Well, it would have required, I mean, that's the whole idea, is that it would have required not just one, but like a series of explosions in specific areas in order to, I mean, that's, you know, that's the kind of the basis of the whole theory, in order for the building to collapse the way that it did.
[01:19:35]  Right.
[01:19:35]  And that's, so that's like a really, a really important point is, I'm not, so I'm not an engineer.
[01:19:42]  I just, I've just read papers.
[01:19:44]  I am, though.
[01:19:45]  No, I'm just.
[01:19:47]  So this is just kind of my like amateur.
[01:19:49]  But this, these buildings collapsed, at least for part of their collapse, at free fall speeds.
[01:19:57]  Yes.
[01:19:58]  And this was something that was not in the NIST reports initially.
[01:20:01]  And actually, I think it was like a high school science teacher did some frame-by-frame analysis of the videos and showed that there was a time, at least some time, when these buildings were collapsing at free fall speed.
[01:20:13]  And NIST was forced to update their report, and they did.
[01:20:16]  And now in the report, it says it did collapse at freefall.
[01:20:20]  The issue is, not to get into like a high school physics lesson, but if the buildings are collapsing under the force of gravity alone, right, which is the theory that NIST gives you, that energy has to go, if the buildings are collapsing at free fall, that means all of the energy from gravity is causing these buildings to collapse at free fall.
[01:20:42]  But the problem with that is that the buildings are pulverized when they get to the bottom.
[01:20:46]  You need energy to cause the pulverization to happen.
[01:20:49]  You need energy to cause the deformation of the metal to actually result in the damage that you see.
[01:20:56]  So it's not possible for you to simultaneously have this free fall collapse and also have the deformation and the pulverization of much of the wreckage that you end up seeing.
[01:21:09]  There's just not enough energy to actually end up causing that.
[01:21:14]  The second part of it is I mentioned earlier, the squibs.
[01:21:17]  Yeah.
[01:21:18]  So just to really quickly explain what those are, I think a lot of people have seen, I mean, at least in my mind, when I was looking at all this stuff, it made total sense because you can, in your memory, when you think of like, you know, I think it's like World Trade Center one, you see these like kind of like clouds of dust ejecting out of the sides of the building.
[01:21:41]  I mean, it's like kind of ingrained in the photo of the towers almost, right?
[01:21:46]  And those are what you call squibs, right?
[01:21:49]  Yeah, those are squibs.
[01:21:50]  And squibs are, if you watch footage of a controlled demolition, they're always present.
[01:21:55]  And what it is, is when you want to collapse a building, you go to where the structural parts of the building are, the different girders and things that are actually holding the thing up, and you need to destroy those, right?
[01:22:07]  So the way that you do that is you place explosives on them.
[01:22:10]  And then the parts of the structure that are in close contact to the most energetic phase of the explosion, that is to say, like the parts that are touching the explosive, basically, those parts become pulverized and they get sent out in this cloud of dust that's sent out at very, very high speed.
[01:22:26]  And in the case of these collapses, if you do like a slow-mo video footage, you can see it's at least 100 miles an hour that these clouds are ejected, probably faster than that.
[01:22:36]  And it's a pretty telltale sign.
[01:22:38]  And if you look at footage, you can see these little puffs of smoke emerging in advance of the sort of advancing supposed pancake collapse of the building.
[01:22:51]  Wait, can you go over the pancake?
[01:22:54]  Because yeah, that's the official.
[01:22:56]  Yeah, cook me up a flapjack.
[01:22:58]  I mean, just like really, really briefly, like the NIST account of what happened, right?
[01:23:03]  Because I think it is important to know.
[01:23:05]  So the first thing is that prior to this and since this, these are steel frame skyscrapers, right?
[01:23:13]  These are very common buildings.
[01:23:16]  And part of the reason that the NIST report happened in the first place was engineers were like, what the fuck?
[01:23:21]  Is this actually possible that all of these steel skyscrapers that we've been building are this vulnerable to fire?
[01:23:28]  I mean, that they can just like, a large fire will literally demolish giant skyscrapers.
[01:23:34]  Like pulverize it.
[01:23:35]  Right, because that's the NIST, the NIST theory is that it wasn't just the jet fuel, it was office, it was things in the office, right?
[01:23:42]  Fire papers, cushions, carpeting, just normal stuff that you would have in any office building in this country.
[01:23:49]  So very understandably, engineers were very concerned.
[01:23:52]  Like, is this something that we haven't been accounting for?
[01:23:54]  So the NIST story for World Trade Center 1 and 2 is that the planes hit.
[01:24:00]  When they hit, they shear off some of the fireproofing from these girders.
[01:24:05]  And then obviously the explosion, the jet fuel, all of the stuff in the office causes this big fire.
[01:24:11]  That fire causes enough heat that these girders that are joining the outside wall and the center column melt.
[01:24:18]  They start to sag.
[01:24:20]  And as they sag, they pull the outside wall into the middle.
[01:24:23]  And that triggers this pancake collapse, whereby the top floor falls into the second floor, and that's enough force to cause the second floor to fall into the third floor, or the reverse, the 100, whatever floor, fall on the 99th floor, et cetera.
[01:24:39]  That is the theory of how the buildings collapsed.
[01:24:44]  Problem is, it doesn't make any fucking sense at all.
[01:24:46]  Yes.
[01:24:46]  That's the thing with all this.
[01:24:48]  It's like it's so much of it when you like, okay, but you realize, look at the surface, you don't really understand these concepts.
[01:24:53]  But like, once it's laid out, it makes no fucking sense.
[01:24:58]  And architects and engineers for 9-11 Truth are this group that was founded in 2006.
[01:25:06]  These are people who have put their professional credibility on the line.
[01:25:10]  I mean, they are regarded as wackos by a lot of people.
[01:25:14]  But in their professional judgment, and they've done a lot of, there have been a lot of technical papers that have come out.
[01:25:18]  There was a recent one about World Trade Center 7, which is even weirder than World Trade Center 1 and 2.
[01:25:24]  You know, they've explained, like, the NIST explanation does not make any sense.
[01:25:29]  And again, I'm not an engineer, so my explanation is not the best.
[01:25:33]  But the idea that, again, when you have a floor crashing into the next floor below it, it doesn't just cause everything to give way.
[01:25:45]  There's a ton of, at the very top of a building, obviously the 99th floor, the stuff that's holding up the 99th floor is also strong enough to hold up every single floor below it.
[01:25:54]  I know, it doesn't even make sense just thinking through it, like as a, you know, yeah, like as a non-engineer, I mean, or a non-architect.
[01:26:00]  Absolutely.
[01:26:01]  As a layperson, it doesn't, we've been, we've been like fed this, all this bullshit by all these groups to make us not trust just very basic.
[01:26:07]  But the idea that one floor falling 10 feet would be enough force to cause the entire structure below it to just give way, it doesn't make any sense.
[01:26:19]  And it's, I mean, in my opinion, it's clearly not what actually happened.
[01:26:23]  Well, you mentioned the red-headed stepchild, which is building seven.
[01:26:28]  Yeah.
[01:26:28]  And building seven is really what caused a lot of people.
[01:26:31]  So, I mean, the first thing to know about all of these different reports that happened, like, World Trade Center 7 does not get mentioned in the 9-11 Commission report basically at all.
[01:26:40]  Not even in popular imagination.
[01:26:43]  No, no, totally.
[01:26:44]  Right.
[01:26:44]  Two planes brought down three towers.
[01:26:45]  How is that possible, right?
[01:26:49]  And World Trade Center, or excuse me, yeah, WT7 was not a little teeny building right next to it either.
[01:26:56]  No, huge.
[01:26:57]  70 plus, I think it was 78 floor, something like that.
[01:26:59]  Yep.
[01:27:00]  I was just watching this, Daniel Ganser.
[01:27:02]  He's a Swiss historian.
[01:27:04]  He was saying, if that building had been in Switzerland, it would have been the tallest building in Switzerland, right?
[01:27:08]  It's a very, very big, very huge skyscraper nation.
[01:27:11]  Yeah, people think it's like some random parking structure because there were the other parking structures that got affected, but it was not.
[01:27:19]  Yeah, like you said, two planes brought down three buildings.
[01:27:22]  What happened?
[01:27:23]  Right.
[01:27:23]  And so it's kind of funny because initially, World Trade Center 7 was not included in the initial NIST report that covered World Trade Center 1 and 2, which is very peculiar.
[01:27:33]  As you mentioned, it's not just sort of an ancillary structure.
[01:27:36]  It's a 70-plus story.
[01:27:38]  In most, you know, in a lot of cities in this country, it would be by far the tallest building, right?
[01:27:43]  Yes.
[01:27:43]  It's a very, very big building.

=== Why WTC 7 Was Excluded (07:28) ===

[01:27:46]  And the thing about it is that, and this is actually in, like, if you go and watch the videos of them reading out the initial NIST report, they talk about how the fact that the planes hitting World Trade Center 1 and 2 and shearing off the fireproofing was a necessary element for those buildings coming down.
[01:28:02]  In the absence of the plane impact, those buildings don't come down.
[01:28:05]  I mean, that's the conclusion of the NIST report.
[01:28:07]  Well, no plane hit World Trade Center 7.
[01:28:10]  So what happened?
[01:28:12]  Why did it come down?
[01:28:16]  The fireproofing fell off.
[01:28:19]  I mean, that is basically their explanation, is that it was inadequate fireproofing.
[01:28:25]  And actually, you know, since then, they have upped the standards.
[01:28:28]  But I think that that's very clearly bullshit.
[01:28:31]  It doesn't make any sense.
[01:28:35]  For a long time, they tried to claim that some of the debris that came off of the first two collapses.
[01:28:41]  Yeah, that was the, yeah.
[01:28:42]  That it was like it started a fire and then it brought down the building.
[01:28:46]  Yeah.
[01:28:46]  And again, there was no jet fuel in that building.
[01:28:49]  All that there was was typical office stuff, carpets, you know, cushions on desk chairs, papers, that kind of stuff.
[01:28:56]  There was no jet fuel.
[01:28:57]  There was nothing else that would have caused a major fire.
[01:28:59]  And again, what that means is if World Trade Center 7 is vulnerable to that kind of thing, why don't we see?
[01:29:05]  Because you have huge high-rise fires quite frequently.
[01:29:10]  There had been a number since 9-11.
[01:29:11]  There were a number.
[01:29:12]  I remember.
[01:29:13]  I mean, hell, Grenfell didn't fall down.
[01:29:15]  Right, precisely.
[01:29:16]  And in Philadelphia, there was that tower in Rotterdam Square that was on fire for an extremely long time.
[01:29:22]  Same stuff, same office stuff.
[01:29:24]  It was never at any risk.
[01:29:25]  And that's part of, I mean, you know, the reason the firefighters were so fine with just going in is they had no expectation that any of these buildings were going to collapse because it doesn't happen typically.
[01:29:36]  So again, if the explanation for the first two towers falling is that the fireproofing was sheared off, what is the explanation for World Trade Center 7?
[01:29:44]  And the answer is there is none.
[01:29:46]  And there's actually witnesses that talk about perhaps hearing calls for controlled demolition, correct?
[01:29:53]  There were, yeah, so there, and again, it's hard because, I mean, two buildings had just come down at this point, right?
[01:30:00]  Right.
[01:30:00]  So World Chest Center 1 and 2 had collapsed.
[01:30:02]  So again, everybody's freaked out.
[01:30:05]  All the firefighters, police officers are all freaked out.
[01:30:10]  They certainly were saying that the building was going to come down.
[01:30:14]  Now, who did they hear that from?
[01:30:15]  Why did they think that?
[01:30:16]  It's not clear.
[01:30:19]  I think it's plausible that they just, I mean, two huge skyscrapers had just collapsed.
[01:30:24]  Anything is possible at this point.
[01:30:25]  Historical materialism.
[01:30:28]  Right.
[01:30:29]  The engine of history.
[01:30:33]  But certainly, yes, people seemed to know beforehand, including firefighters, police officers, that the building was going to collapse.
[01:30:44]  Recently, the University of Alaska Fairbanks came up with this technical report basically disproving the NIST explanation for how this came down, which I encourage people to check out.
[01:30:56]  If you just Google Alaska Fairbanks World Trade Center 7, you'll find it.
[01:31:00]  And again, I'm not an engineer, but this building also collapsed, at least for part of its collapse, at free fall speed.
[01:31:07]  And you can watch the video footage yourself.
[01:31:10]  The whole, the penthouse, there's a penthouse on the very top.
[01:31:14]  I'm making hand gestures.
[01:31:15]  I don't know why I'm doing that, but there's a penthouse at the top of the building.
[01:31:17]  I think people can visualize what top of the building means.
[01:31:20]  There's this penthouse that collapses initially, and then the entire rest of the top of the building collapses simultaneously.
[01:31:28]  It all collapses at the exact same time.
[01:31:30]  And you can look at this footage with your own eyes.
[01:31:32]  NIST's explanation is that a single column, I think it was column 79, failed, and that that precipitated this chain of failures.
[01:31:43]  That's not consistent with what you see, right?
[01:31:45]  Then you would expect to see a progressive collapse.
[01:31:47]  Part of the building collapses initially.
[01:31:49]  Yes.
[01:31:50]  But again, it's like seamless.
[01:31:52]  It just straight down.
[01:31:54]  It just goes straight down.
[01:31:55]  It literally looks like an actual controlled demolition.
[01:31:59]  Yeah, it does.
[01:32:00]  And for that, for a free fall to happen, there has to be no resistance, at least in some, all of the angles, at least part of the building is obscured.
[01:32:09]  So you can't tell what's happening in the entire building at the same time.
[01:32:13]  But if any part of the building is collapsing at free fall speed, which it certainly is, the NIST report says that.
[01:32:18]  That means there has to be no resistance at least some time.
[01:32:22]  I mean, if what we're talking about, I think everyone, I mean, even, like I said, the 93 stuff and even like normal lay people that are not involved in Truth or stuff agree that when you bring up Tower 7, they go, yeah, that was kind of weird, you know?
[01:32:38]  But the real question then is why did that build, who, why, why would that building need to be demolished?
[01:32:48]  Yeah, so there's a lot.
[01:32:51]  So I mentioned earlier that there was this emergency operations center was one of the things that was in this tower.
[01:32:57]  And I think if you wanted to really hamper the investigation, if you wanted to hamper the coordination, basically confuse the situation, that's where you would, one of the things that you would hit, right?
[01:33:09]  You would want to hit this emergency operations center.
[01:33:11]  There's also a CIA office in this building.
[01:33:17]  Which was actually, it's funny because the CIA office, it was not advertised, I suppose, to the public as a CIA office.
[01:33:24]  They were pretending to be another federal agency.
[01:33:28]  But it also was like, it was supposedly like the largest and like a really important CIA station.
[01:33:35]  Well, it's where they basically conducted, so they say, conducted operations to recruit basically foreign diplomats who were there for the UN.
[01:33:46]  So, you know, and, you know, Fidel Castro's, you know, secretary or something.
[01:33:53]  You know, they try to offer him $500.
[01:33:55]  For like 85th time, they tried to kill him by seducing the secretary.
[01:33:59]  They're like, just, I don't know, man, just give him HPV or something.
[01:34:04]  Death by a thousand cuts.
[01:34:06]  Yes.
[01:34:08]  So I feel like that's a pretty notable thing, right?
[01:34:13]  Absolutely.
[01:34:14]  Absolutely.
[01:34:14]  And we talked, I think, last time about some of the financial weirdness that was also happening.
[01:34:20]  Yeah, we had Solomon Brothers in there, too.
[01:34:22]  Right.
[01:34:22]  There was a Solomon Brothers, and a lot of their servers and things were located in that building.
[01:34:27]  You know, I mean, it's unclear to me precisely why.
[01:34:33]  Obviously, what was hidden in there?
[01:34:34]  We don't know exactly.
[01:34:36]  Right, something was.
[01:34:37]  It was all destroyed, but something was.
[01:34:40]  And this building, of course, collapsed pretty long after.
[01:34:44]  It was at least, I think at least half an hour after the second tower collapsed.
[01:34:48]  So it happened quite a bit after.
[01:34:52]  But yeah, it's not clear to me why this happened, but definitely they were trying to conceal something.
[01:34:57]  Because I don't think, obviously, most people don't even remember that this building collapsed.
[01:35:01]  I don't think it was for the PR purposes that the rest of the operation was, essentially.
[01:35:05]  No, and it's funny.
[01:35:06]  Sometimes I wonder if it was not even related.
[01:35:09]  Like it was just a kind of like, well, we're already down there.
[01:35:11]  Might as well just this out while we can.

=== Thermite: The Extremely Hot Theory (04:38) ===

[01:35:14]  Yeah, you know, like I say, all these, anytime you look at this stuff, there's a ton of compartmentalization.
[01:35:19]  And I'm sure somebody got a hint from somebody something was going to go down and they said, hey, why don't we, you know, why don't we clean up a little bit?
[01:35:25]  They paid a couple guys to come in.
[01:35:27]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:35:28]  I mean, I, yeah, and I mean, this gets into, like, how do they do this, which is, like, Yeah.
[01:35:33]  Right.
[01:35:33]  How would they have, how would they have rigged these buildings to blow?
[01:35:37]  I don't know, you know, I have no idea precisely how they did it.
[01:35:40]  Obviously, all of the evidence was destroyed.
[01:35:42]  And in fact, the steel that was left over from these buildings being collapsed was sent over to China and it was melted down to be reused elsewhere.
[01:35:49]  So we don't even have.
[01:35:51]  My conspiracy theory on that is that's the steel they used to build the Bay Bridge here.
[01:35:57]  It's crazy.
[01:35:57]  That would rule, actually.
[01:35:59]  That would be amazing.
[01:36:00]  They did import the steel.
[01:36:01]  That they're hidden in plain sight.
[01:36:04]  It's part of, it's actually, it's the Bay Area buying into Belton Road.
[01:36:12]  Yeah.
[01:36:13]  Yeah.
[01:36:14]  So, you know, one of the things there is evidence.
[01:36:20]  There is some evidence that it was thermite, which is a fairly commonly used material that basically just burns extremely hot.
[01:36:29]  You would basically use thermite to cut a steel girder, which is what these main structural elements on these buildings are.
[01:36:35]  So I actually have seen it.
[01:36:37]  I have seen thermite, both homemade thermite and real, I believe, Russian thermite grenade in real life.
[01:36:45]  And it is astounding.
[01:36:48]  I mean, look up videos of this stuff.
[01:36:50]  It is like, it makes a lot of sense in this context.
[01:36:55]  I'll say that.
[01:36:56]  Yeah, you can make thermite out of stuff that you can get at Home Depot.
[01:37:00]  But the stuff I think they were working with, so demolishing buildings and similar applications that these things are used for mining is a very advanced science.
[01:37:13]  I mean, there's people who are trying to make better and better stuff.
[01:37:18]  We talked, I think on the first episode about a company called Dresser, which is a mining and oil services company that has been CIA connected for a very, very long time, connected directly to the Bush family as well.
[01:37:32]  And they had patented with a company called Komatsu, which is a Japanese heavy industry mining company, this nanothermite.
[01:37:41]  And this is a real, you can go look up the patent for this if you want to.
[01:37:45]  Yeah, it's some kind of new I don't know enough about engineering to understand it but this is what people have hypothesized was used because they Right, you'd want to work with your buddies You would want to work with your buddies.
[01:37:58]  And again, there's evidence of, so people did air quality checks around, just independent people, and found part of one constituent component of thermite is aluminum.
[01:38:10]  And so they found like these aluminum oxides that are consistent with thermite having been used.
[01:38:16]  The other thing is just that the pile of rubble was extremely hot for an extremely long time.
[01:38:24]  And this was remarked upon by just lay people.
[01:38:26]  Like, why is this so small?
[01:38:28]  Why is this still, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:38:29]  And like smoking, kind of.
[01:38:31]  Right.
[01:38:32]  And to the point of people seeing molten metal when they would pull girders out, they would be extremely hot.
[01:38:41]  Again, that wouldn't have come from jet fuel.
[01:38:44]  I mean, it would not have stayed that hot.
[01:38:47]  I mean, even I know that, and I don't know anything.
[01:38:49]  And I'm talking about, like, we're not talking about like out, like months, like months after it was still extremely hot.
[01:38:55]  And again, that would be consistent with, I mean, the way that thermite works is this oxidizing reaction.
[01:39:00]  Like, that would be consistent with this oxidizing reaction still taking place at some level underneath all of this, this pile of rubber.
[01:39:06]  Interesting.
[01:39:07]  And there was really no, I think, I think Pataki was the governor, and they were like, somebody, some naive reporter was asking him, like, why is it still so hot?
[01:39:14]  And he didn't have a good answer.
[01:39:15]  And I don't really think anybody really does.
[01:39:17]  It doesn't make sense given what supposedly happened to these buildings.
[01:39:21]  So I don't, yeah, I don't have a theory about like how they rigged this thing to blow, but it seems like it could have been thermite.
[01:39:28]  And certainly a lot of the companies that were pushing the envelope forward on making thermite products for mining and building demolition purposes had CIA connections.
[01:39:38]  And those connections went way back.
[01:39:41]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:39:41]  And we know that they have, I mean, the CIA itself certainly has extensive laboratories.
[01:39:48]  Oh, yeah.
[01:39:48]  And ways to procure this stuff, too.
[01:39:50]  Yeah.
[01:39:51]  Yep.

=== Crazy Hijacker Questions (12:14) ===

[01:39:53]  I mean, we didn't mention one.
[01:39:55]  I mean, we have to wrap up because we could go for like two more hours, but we can't also.
[01:40:01]  We've already gone long.
[01:40:02]  I just want to mention one crazy thing is that they're really, and this is just back on the hijackers because this is the stuff where I was like, okay, I don't know anything anymore, which is, were the hijackers even the pilots of the planes?
[01:40:17]  Yeah.
[01:40:17]  Like, and I mean all of them.
[01:40:19]  There is literally, there is photographic evidence of Muhammad Atta and I can't remember who he was with flying from Portland to Logan Airport, Boston.
[01:40:34]  There is no photographic evidence of any of the other hijackers going through any security.
[01:40:41]  There's like some witnesses that kind of remember, but really like not a lot.
[01:40:45]  And in fact, at Logan, there were no witnesses to them basically going back through security.
[01:40:54]  It's really, and we mentioned that the pilot of the Pentagon attack, you know, if that is what happened, as we mentioned, like that, that would have been a, you know, completely out of bounds of his skill set.
[01:41:09]  Like there's just no way it was him or if it was the flight that he was on.
[01:41:13]  But there really is like no proof that these guys were even the guys that were on the flights piloting these planes.
[01:41:21]  And there's not a ton of evidence that it was Flight 11 and Flight 175 that actually hit the two towers.
[01:41:27]  I mean, very famously, somehow the black boxes were destroyed and not recoverable, but they found these passports.
[01:41:36]  They somehow made it to the ground and were recovered so that these hijackers.
[01:41:40]  JetFuel didn't catch those on fire.
[01:41:43]  Yeah.
[01:41:44]  I know we've talked about this before.
[01:41:45]  I think we probably mentioned this a few times.
[01:41:47]  It's such an astounding detail.
[01:41:49]  They found the fucking passports of these guys.
[01:41:52]  Yep.
[01:41:53]  I mean, jet fuel was melting guys 90 stories down.
[01:41:57]  Excuse me.
[01:41:57]  Yeah.
[01:41:58]  Jet fuel was burning people 90 stories down, but somehow their passports fluttered out of the planes out of their pockets?
[01:42:06]  Well, again, this doesn't make any sense.
[01:42:08]  It's so stupid.
[01:42:09]  Presumably they had their passports on them, or at least they were in their luggage.
[01:42:14]  But if, I mean, let's say they're in the cockpit with their passport on them, the cockpit voice recorder is also in the cockpit.
[01:42:21]  Right.
[01:42:22]  Or right near the cockpit.
[01:42:23]  But that was destroyed completely, and somehow these paper documents survived.
[01:42:27]  It just, it doesn't, it doesn't, again, it does not make any sense.
[01:42:31]  Surely we should be able to find, I mean, where are we should clearly have these black boxes.
[01:42:37]  Right.
[01:42:38]  I mean, it's extraordinarily rare, the crash, where these things don't survive.
[01:42:44]  Well, famously, myself and many of my colleagues have asked, why don't they make the whole plane out of the box?
[01:42:51]  But it appears that if that was the case, then they would just lose it.
[01:42:56]  Yeah.
[01:42:57]  I mean, again, you know, I am curious in the idea that it was not these planes at all.
[01:43:05]  Yeah, that just piqued my interest.
[01:43:06]  Do you think that it was like different flights?
[01:43:11]  You know, I mean, at the very least, some of the planes had their transponders turned off, at which point it's quite easy to pull a switcheroo.
[01:43:20]  I mean, you know, you just have to.
[01:43:21]  Why would their transponders have been turned off?
[01:43:25]  Well, I mean, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
[01:43:29]  I don't, for one thing, I mean, these guys did not have how they even, I mean, look, I mean, leaving aside, like, how they even flew these planes, like, how did they know how to turn the transponders off in the first place?
[01:43:40]  Like, it's not clear how they would have learned how to do that, how they would have gotten that knowledge.
[01:43:44]  They have box cutters, so it's fine.
[01:43:46]  Yeah, they somehow overpowered a ex-Marine pilot, even though the guy was like five, the hijacker was like five, the muscle hijacker, so called.
[01:43:53]  And they killed, they killed one of my colleagues of Israeli Special Forces, too, on flight 11.
[01:44:00]  Yeah, it's yes.
[01:44:02]  So the idea, again, we really don't have a whole lot of evidence.
[01:44:08]  I mean, the lack of evidence is kind of surprising.
[01:44:10]  You would think that there would be more solid evidence that these people did actually hijack these planes and that the planes that impacted the buildings actually were the planes that were supposedly hijacked.
[01:44:18]  And there just is not a ton.
[01:44:19]  I mean, there is not a ton.
[01:44:21]  And particularly the black boxes being missing and the passport somehow not being missing is very, very strange.
[01:44:27]  I don't buy it.
[01:44:29]  I don't buy one word.
[01:44:32]  Yeah, I'm convinced.
[01:44:36]  Well, anything else we should mention here?
[01:44:39]  I mean, there's a lot else that we could do.
[01:44:41]  There's like, yeah, could go on forever.
[01:44:44]  But no, I think that does it for me at least.
[01:44:48]  Well, thank you very much.
[01:44:50]  If you are listening to this podcast and you are still thinking that same old bullshit that you thought about 9-11 before, then I invite you to please listen to all three episodes again.
[01:45:05]  Over and over until you agree with us.
[01:45:08]  But no, we'll give you the links to the stuff we talked about.
[01:45:11]  That History Commons site in particular, I mean, it is extensive.
[01:45:16]  And I invite everybody to do your own research on this.
[01:45:19]  Totally.
[01:45:19]  Totally.
[01:45:20]  And like to actually do it, to go in.
[01:45:22]  You got a lot of time right now.
[01:45:24]  Exactly.
[01:45:25]  You should try to solve 9-11.
[01:45:28]  Well, here's something.
[01:45:29]  I do want to say, like, I really love having, you know, having you on, Ben, to talk about this stuff because, and we heard this from some of our listeners too, is that like everyone thinks that 9-11 truthers are like cranks.
[01:45:41]  It's like, you're a very well-spoken, you know, intelligent person.
[01:45:45]  You're not a crank, if I may say so myself.
[01:45:49]  But like, I mean, I don't know, I probably am.
[01:45:51]  But like, you know, this stuff is, you know, this is, you know, this isn't just crazy people.
[01:45:58]  Like this, there's so much here that does not add up in any way.
[01:46:03]  Absolutely.
[01:46:04]  And, you know, we are definitely made to feel like crazy people for questioning the official story.
[01:46:11]  And obviously throughout history, the official story has turned out to be bullshit time and time and time again with actual investigation.
[01:46:18]  And there's a ton of stuff that there's a ton of evidence we do not have.
[01:46:23]  And what would be terrific would be an actual real investigation.
[01:46:27]  Put some of these people like Cheney and Bush on the stand under oath, ask them pointed questions about where were you at this time?
[01:46:34]  What were you doing at this time?
[01:46:35]  That would be great.
[01:46:36]  And, you know, I'm not necessarily saying throw these people in jail immediately, at least give them like some kind of tribunal, you know?
[01:46:42]  Exactly.
[01:46:43]  And figure out what really did happen.
[01:46:45]  There are so many parts and pieces of this that we don't understand.
[01:46:49]  And I don't think we will ever, I mean, I don't think that's ever going to happen.
[01:46:52]  No, it's like JFK, you know?
[01:46:54]  Yeah, absolutely.
[01:46:56]  I mean, I think, too, it's like, as we've kind of been trying to lay out with this series, like this event catalyzes or crystallizes so many important, you know, like new developments within the state.
[01:47:12]  Like it really is just a key moment in, you know, you know, in the last 30, 30 years that you, you know, we can't understand American policy without understanding it.
[01:47:25]  And that just furthers you thinking, well, there had to be some reason for all this stuff to, you know what I'm saying?
[01:47:31]  Absolutely.
[01:47:32]  I mean, what I've always thought is 9-11, I mean, if they didn't plan 9-11, then these guys are fucking idiots because 9-11 gave them every single thing they could have possibly wanted.
[01:47:42]  9-11 was 100% the best thing to ever happen in George W. Bush's life.
[01:47:47]  It's true.
[01:47:48]  And Giuliani's.
[01:47:49]  Absolutely.
[01:47:49]  Oh, yeah.
[01:47:50]  Yeah.
[01:47:51]  He still traded on that thing.
[01:47:54]  If 9-11 hadn't happened, Giuliani would be in a rest home somewhere.
[01:47:59]  But he's a skateby.
[01:48:01]  You know, PNAC, before the PNAC cabal came into power in the 2001, they were talking about the stuff that they wanted.
[01:48:09]  This new American century needed a new Pearl Arbor.
[01:48:13]  That was the language they said.
[01:48:15]  We needed a new Pearl Arbor for these things to happen.
[01:48:19]  And that's, you know, less than 100%.
[01:48:21]  They got one.
[01:48:22]  They got exactly that.
[01:48:23]  You know, they got it.
[01:48:25]  And Robbie Martin has a documentary, I believe, on PNAC that I haven't watched yet, but I'm going to.
[01:48:33]  But those guys are really, I mean, that is some cold-blooded shit right there.
[01:48:38]  Absolutely.
[01:48:39]  Yeah.
[01:48:39]  Well, Ben, thank you so much for joining us.
[01:48:42]  Your quarantine beard looks kemped.
[01:48:45]  Your home looks well lit.
[01:48:47]  Thank you.
[01:48:48]  And it's always a pleasure having you on.
[01:48:52]  I'm literally trying to think of excuses of what else we could do with you after this.
[01:48:56]  I know.
[01:48:56]  I was thinking about that too.
[01:48:57]  I'm sure we can come up.
[01:48:59]  I've got some ideas.
[01:49:01]  I would love to talk, you know, JFK would be another great thing to talk about.
[01:49:04]  But there's a lot of people who are going to be able to do that.
[01:49:06]  The thing is, we need a JFK symposium.
[01:49:09]  Oh, yeah, totally.
[01:49:10]  We need all the heavy hitters on there.
[01:49:13]  But that'd be a Zoom call.
[01:49:15]  Yeah.
[01:49:16]  That would be a really fun live event if live events could ever happen again.
[01:49:22]  Just us sponsoring a roundtable discussion about JFK or something.
[01:49:26]  That could be cute.
[01:49:27]  Actually, that's got me thinking.
[01:49:30]  Maybe sometime mid-next year, we can just fly everybody out to a fucking place because people will come see us and then they'll be treated to five hours discussing the Cowboys versus Yankees.
[01:49:45]  Yeah.
[01:49:46]  All right.
[01:49:47]  Well, Ben, thank you so much for joining us.
[01:49:50]  Follow him, by the way, at Housetrotter.
[01:49:53]  That's House and then Trotter at Twitter.
[01:49:57]  And visit my site, housetrotter.com.
[01:49:59]  Oh, yeah.
[01:50:00]  There you go.
[01:50:01]  Hopefully we'll not be taken down like so many of the other websites.
[01:50:05]  Do you know how much I've used a fucking Wayback Machine in the past week?
[01:50:09]  Oh, yeah.
[01:50:10]  My God.
[01:50:12]  And yeah, and we'll hopefully talk to you soon.
[01:50:15]  Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me.
[01:50:16]  Have a good night, guys.
[01:50:17]  See ya. See you.
[01:50:18]  Well,
[01:50:52]  Well, I'm convinced.
[01:50:55]  You know what I'm convinced of?
[01:50:58]  That that was a good episode.
[01:51:01]  But I'm also convinced that 9-11 was an inside job.
[01:51:04]  And it is, again, we said this at the beginning, we said this all during the episode, but please, please do your own research if you're skeptical.
[01:51:12]  If you have knee-jerk skepticism, well, ask yourself why that knee is jerking.
[01:51:18]  And maybe you're the jerk.
[01:51:20]  Yeah.
[01:51:21]  So yeah, we're due to take your time.
[01:51:24]  Check this stuff out.
[01:51:25]  There's lots to read.
[01:51:27]  And hopefully, you know, you learned a thing or two.
[01:51:30]  Well, we will see you soon.
[01:51:32]  We will see you, I believe, next episode, actually.
[01:51:35]  Yeah, real soon.
[01:51:37]  Yeah.
[01:51:38]  I'm Liz.
[01:51:39]  My name is Brace.
[01:51:40]  We're doing music and production by Young Chomsky.
[01:51:43]  And Liz, play us out, baby.
[01:51:46]  We'll see you next time.
[01:51:47]  Bye-bye.
[01:52:06]  Come out.
[01:52:08]  Come in.