True Anon Truth Feed - [9/11 Week] Bush Did 9/11 Part 2
Aired: 2020-09-08
Duration: 01:37:55


=== Cold Open From Dave (02:32) ===

[00:00:00]  How come they never call it a hot open?
[00:00:03]  I don't know, actually.
[00:00:04]  What is it?
[00:00:04]  I mean, I don't know where that comes from.
[00:00:06]  So a cold open comes from Dave Portnoy.
[00:00:08]  I can't do the, I don't want to do, it's Felix's territory now.
[00:00:11]  I can't talk about Barstool Sports.
[00:00:12]  Even though I listen to the sex podcasts, they do.
[00:00:16]  Why is everyone talking about Barstool Sports?
[00:00:19]  Well, I've been talking, as you know, I have been talking about the Barstool Sports sex podcast for quite quite a few many months now.
[00:00:26]  Yeah, you talk about that a lot.
[00:00:28]  But Felix has certain mental illnesses that makes him repeat things over and over.
[00:00:33]  And then people think what he say is funny and they're like, I can be funny too.
[00:00:36]  And then they say the same thing, but they're not funny.
[00:00:40]  And so it sort of just becomes this like.
[00:00:42]  Did something happen with Barstool or what?
[00:00:44]  Yeah, it came out that the owner of Barstool Sports had pretended to be Native American for 10 years.
[00:00:51]  And he actually got the Dave Portnoy.
[00:00:54]  He actually got the, well, he's his CEO position due to that.
[00:01:00]  Federal contracts for Native Americans.
[00:01:02]  He is kind of a troll, isn't he?
[00:01:04]  I think the whole thing's an act.
[00:01:06]  You know what?
[00:01:07]  Yeah, I don't really care.
[00:01:08]  I don't care.
[00:01:09]  I don't care.
[00:01:10]  I don't know.
[00:01:10]  I don't care.
[00:01:10]  I find all of it to be annoying.
[00:01:12]  Here's my thing.
[00:01:13]  Who are getting mad about him and people who don't get mad about him?
[00:01:15]  Here's my thing.
[00:01:16]  Who care?
[00:01:17]  Well, actually, that's not your thing.
[00:01:20]  It's my thing about them.
[00:01:21]  Okay, yeah, okay.
[00:01:21]  I was about to say that.
[00:01:23]  No, no, respect, Big Dave.
[00:01:24]  Yeah, or more favorite Jewish listener, Big Dave.
[00:01:26]  Yeah, no.
[00:01:27]  Respect.
[00:01:27]  I know where- I don't respect him.
[00:01:29]  Well, I know that that's his thing.
[00:01:32]  But what I mean is, who care about Barstool?
[00:01:35]  Yeah, that's true.
[00:01:36]  Well, I don't.
[00:01:37]  You just don't pay attention.
[00:01:38]  You know what?
[00:01:38]  You can just not pay attention.
[00:01:40]  Well, that's actually extremely not true.
[00:01:44]  Are you kidding me?
[00:01:45]  You cannot pay attention.
[00:01:47]  If the people listen to this podcast could not pay attention, they would not all be on SSRIs.
[00:01:52]  Oh, yeah.
[00:01:53]  Yeah, well, they don't like sports.
[00:01:55]  Yeah, well, I love sports.
[00:01:56]  And guess what?
[00:01:57]  I don't know shit about Barstool.
[00:01:59]  Here's the thing.
[00:01:59]  Liz watches sports.
[00:02:01]  I fucking play sports.
[00:02:02]  Me and Jon Chomsky play Hyalai at the WYMCA every Sunday.
[00:02:09]  We go in there, big ass white shorts, big ass white tee, big ass white hat, and we fucking flick those balls back and forth.
[00:02:17]  I lost a finger doing it.
[00:02:19]  I bled out for two days before I realized what was going on because I was so hyped from fucking beating all these motherfuckers out there.
[00:02:26]  It's like, oh, oh, I'm not from the Dominican Republic.
[00:02:29]  I can't play Hyalai.
[00:02:30]  Fuck you.
[00:02:30]  I'll beat you.

=== Truth Hour (15:19) ===

[00:02:32]  Anyways, uh, welcome to True and Honest.
[00:02:59]  Welcome back to Truth Hour.
[00:03:02]  Well, actually, welcome back to Truanon for another hour.
[00:03:07]  We are joined again by our illustrious guest.
[00:03:11]  We have Ben here.
[00:03:13]  That is at Housetrad on Twitter.
[00:03:14]  I am joined, of course, as usual, by and producer Young Chomsky.
[00:03:20]  Ben, how you doing, baby?
[00:03:22]  I'm doing well.
[00:03:22]  Thank you very much for having me back.
[00:03:24]  I am so excited to delve into this.
[00:03:26]  You know, in retrospect, it seems a little silly that we thought we were going to get to the 9-11 attacks today.
[00:03:33]  Yeah, there's like too much stuff.
[00:03:35]  Yeah.
[00:03:36]  So this is going to have to be a kind of like ongoing True Anon series, which I think it'll be nice to come back and revisit every once in a while.
[00:03:44]  Because, yeah, there's absolutely no way we could even begin to just get into like it's not even just the timeline leading up, like, you know, the timeline of all the terrorist activities and the different characters leading into the 9-11 attacks, but also just like hour by hour what happened that day is so crazy.
[00:04:05]  So that'll have to be, we'll have to get to that.
[00:04:08]  But what we're talking about today is pretty crazy.
[00:04:11]  Yeah, we have, you want to start us off here?
[00:04:14]  I know you wanted to talk about a certain CIA station.
[00:04:19]  Yes.
[00:04:21]  One of my most hated people, definitely open on the list with George H.W. Bush for me, would definitely be the CIA trio of George Tenet, Kofer Black, and Richard Blee, who all have strange personal histories and bizarre connections to Al-Qaeda and the Mujahideen and other weird stuff going way back.
[00:04:45]  But I wanted to talk in particular about their...
[00:04:50]  One of the things I mentioned last time was that there are some very particular conspiracies where it's very clear that a very small number of people actively concealed information about what was going on with Al-Qaeda.
[00:05:05]  Mm-hmm.
[00:05:06]  Um...
[00:05:07]  And we were talking about this website, History Commons, which is a great resource if anybody wants to look at the hour by hour timeline.
[00:05:15]  What's the actual address of that?
[00:05:16]  It's like historycommons.org, I think.
[00:05:19]  Yeah, I think it's historycommons.org.
[00:05:20]  The site goes down a lot.
[00:05:22]  I don't know precisely why.
[00:05:24]  So it's something that's just unavailable for whatever reason.
[00:05:26]  But it's a great resource.
[00:05:29]  And this guy, Kevin Fenton, who wrote the book, Disconnecting the Dots, which I would recommend to people, he was writing for that site just on an amateur basis.
[00:05:40]  And he was very curious about this narrative around this idea that it had been intelligence failures that had led to these attacks being allowed to happen.
[00:05:49]  Because obviously there was all this stuff in the media about these memos, you know, bin Laden determined to strike in the United States, all of that stuff.
[00:05:58]  And since, and then the NIA, like not communicating with the CIA and all that.
[00:06:03]  Well, that was a big impetus for the Patriot Act and Department of Homeland Security was this coordination between intelligence agencies, because that was seen as basically the failure that led to the attacks.
[00:06:18]  Yeah, and even stuff like, you know, CIA agents being placed in NYPD, for instance, which is theoretically totally illegal for the CIA to be involved in domestic policing, but the excuse was, well, you know, we need this liaison because New York has been a likely target for all these terrorist attacks, et cetera.
[00:06:38]  So yeah, it provided the justification for this concentration of intelligence and letting the CIA really get its tendrils everywhere.
[00:06:49]  Yeah, and Fenton was, I don't know if he was skeptical, but in any case, he was researching what had happened, you know, just to kind of get a narrative of what had happened here.
[00:07:01]  And what he discovered was that it was not a case of systematic failure to share intelligence.
[00:07:07]  There were lots of examples of intelligence being shared between agencies, and there seemed to be no problem.
[00:07:15]  But he, through a close reading of a few different reports, of course, the 9-11 Commission report, but also the earlier congressional inquiry into the intelligence failures, as well as a couple of Inspector General reports for a couple of agencies.
[00:07:30]  And he discovered through this that it was actually a very small number of people within this CIA station called the ALEC station.
[00:07:38]  And the ALEC station was set up in the late 90s.
[00:07:44]  You know, most CIA stations are focused on a particular geographical area, like the Berlin station, the Bangkok station, or whatever.
[00:07:52]  And so this one was set up specifically to follow al-Qaeda and to track what was going on with them.
[00:07:59]  And in theory, or ostensibly, this station was a way to get information where it needed to go.
[00:08:08]  I mean, it was, in theory, this was created specifically to facilitate information sharing.
[00:08:14]  And there were, for example, several people from the FBI detailed to this CIA station.
[00:08:18]  Oh, we have some coordination there.
[00:08:21]  Yeah, exactly, which is precisely what they said was the problem.
[00:08:24]  But no, that was the idea.
[00:08:26]  And I think actually what it was was basically an information black hole.
[00:08:31]  It was a place where somebody from, let's say, Abu Dhabi has some information.
[00:08:37]  They send that, oh, that goes to the ALEC station because it's al-Qaeda related.
[00:08:40]  And then the ALEC station just sits on it and doesn't do anything with it.
[00:08:44]  And there are tons of examples of this.
[00:08:47]  But just, I guess, to talk through some of the people, because I think some of the stuff that's come out since then has, I think, tried to either pin it on Richard Blee specifically and say it didn't go above him.
[00:09:01]  There's all this weird, even like weird, because his identity was concealed for a long time.
[00:09:06]  Yeah.
[00:09:07]  And Fenton and some other people figured out who he was.
[00:09:09]  And since then, there's been these puff pieces basically that have come out about him.
[00:09:14]  But he was the son of this guy, David Blee, who was the longtime Soviet bureau chief for the CIA.
[00:09:21]  So he was, you know, Blee was kind of a company guy from the very beginning.
[00:09:26]  And he was George Tenet's executive assistant for a long time.
[00:09:31]  So very, very close to Tenet, which again makes it seem like if Blee was doing it, you know, Tenet was going to be the one behind it.
[00:09:40]  Especially when we get to some later sections, George Tennant's name comes up in a very peculiar context.
[00:09:46]  Yeah, right, exactly.
[00:09:47]  It's not isolated.
[00:09:49]  Tennett has got exactly fingers all over the place.
[00:09:53]  And so he, yeah, Tenet places Ble in charge of the Alex station.
[00:09:58]  And he brings in another guy, Tom Wilshire, and a woman, Alfreda Frances Bukowski, was another senior person deputy to Wilshire.
[00:10:06]  And she was the character.
[00:10:08]  She's Bukowski was the person that Jessica Chastain's character in Zara Dark 30 was based on.
[00:10:18]  She was the torture queen, the so-called torture queen.
[00:10:20]  Propaganda movie.
[00:10:21]  I regret masturbating to it.
[00:10:23]  Oh, geez.
[00:10:23]  It's her scenes.
[00:10:28]  And yeah, there were two FBI agents, Doug Miller and Steve Rossini, who were detailed to this unit.
[00:10:36]  And their job ostensibly was to take information from the CIA that was relevant and pass it along to the FBI.
[00:10:45]  And so one, just as an example of a piece of evidence that they got, it's not quite clear exactly how they got it.
[00:10:53]  Either the UAE customs might have given it to the CIA.
[00:10:57]  The other story is that they went into these two al-Qaeda hijackers' hotel rooms and got the information.
[00:11:03]  But there were two.
[00:11:04]  I've read that story before.
[00:11:06]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:08]  It's this whole visa thing, right?
[00:11:10]  These 9-11 hijackers had a U.S. visa, and the CIA knew about it.
[00:11:16]  And these two guys from the FBI tried to get this information out and to the FBI.
[00:11:22]  Obviously, it's highly relevant that these people are coming to the United States.
[00:11:26]  That's ostensibly something that the FBI would be concerned about.
[00:11:29]  And they just never got the information.
[00:11:31]  Well, that's very similar to another case in Phoenix.
[00:11:35]  A flight school instructor reported that there were some suspicious people, some suspicious Arab men doing flight training, but in a weird way, like he felt uncomfortable with it.
[00:11:47]  He reported to the FBI.
[00:11:49]  FBI agent reports it up the chain.
[00:11:51]  He asked, maybe we should check out if there's any similar things going on elsewhere in the country, and he never hears back.
[00:11:59]  Yeah, my favorite.
[00:12:00]  Flight 77.
[00:12:01]  Yes, my favorite one with him was that he was actually like notably like a terrible pilot.
[00:12:08]  Yeah.
[00:12:08]  And yeah.
[00:12:09]  No, I mean, like, so this like second flight school that he was at, they were like so confused as to how he even had a pilot's license because he was so demonstrably terrible at flying that they contacted the FAA and tried to get them to look into like how this guy got a fucking license.
[00:12:27]  Yeah.
[00:12:28]  And the FAA just like sat on it and never got back to them.
[00:12:32]  Yes.
[00:12:34]  Which is very weird.
[00:12:36]  Yeah.
[00:12:36]  I mean, the ones who were training in Florida were equally bad.
[00:12:41]  Yeah.
[00:12:41]  Yeah.
[00:12:41]  Pretty universally all their flights.
[00:12:43]  They were like, these guys just don't care about landing.
[00:12:46]  But wait, go ahead.
[00:12:47]  Go ahead.
[00:12:47]  Sorry, we interrupted.
[00:12:50]  No, well, I was, I mean, yeah, I mean, I was just giving an example of this deliberate withholding of information.
[00:12:57]  And in fact, Bukowski, so they had this information about this visa, you know, this Alex Station group, the CIA, had this information about this visa.
[00:13:06]  These FBI agents tried to get it out.
[00:13:08]  It was blocked by Wilshire.
[00:13:11]  And Bukowski went so far as to lie to the two FBI agents and told them that she had hand-delivered it to the FBI.
[00:13:18]  This was definitely not true.
[00:13:19]  The 9-11 Commission never found any evidence that this ever happened.
[00:13:23]  And then in all these puff pieces about Blee, him in July of 2001 saying that he knows that the attacks will be spectacular.
[00:13:36]  Well, he is aware that these people are in the United States or had the ability to get into the United States and did not act on that information at that time in summer of 2001.
[00:13:45]  I mean, if they had visas, it would be pretty easy to revoke those visas.
[00:13:50]  Yeah, or to put them on a watch list to have the FBI surveill them.
[00:13:55]  And in fact, none of these guys were watch lists, right?
[00:13:58]  No, none of them were.
[00:13:59]  And they were all active in the United States.
[00:14:02]  And there's some interesting, you know, Prince Bandar, who was also known as Bandar Bush because he was very close with the Bush family.
[00:14:13]  You know, he was one of the people implicated in the 28 pages, the redacted confidential 28 pages as being a part of the logistic network that supported, in particular, Nawaf Alhazmi and Khlida Madar, who were in San Diego.
[00:14:29]  And he said to a reporter that Saudi intelligence was watching these people inside the United States.
[00:14:37]  And that if only the United States and Saudi Arabia had communicated better, they would have found out about it.
[00:14:42]  I think it's pretty clear that at some level, certain people in the CIA definitely were aware.
[00:14:48]  Right.
[00:14:48]  Because there's almost a deliberate pattern of trying not to know and allowing these alternative intelligence sources, that is to say foreign intelligence agencies that can't be subpoenaed.
[00:15:02]  They don't have records.
[00:15:04]  They can be accountable to Congress.
[00:15:06]  Have them do this.
[00:15:07]  This came up last time.
[00:15:08]  It's like, well, we can't look in the ISI archive.
[00:15:11]  Like, we can't look in the Saudi intelligence service archives.
[00:15:14]  Or Mossads, for that matter.
[00:15:16]  It's quite likely that they were watching at least some of the hijackers in Florida.
[00:15:21]  Or maybe even on September 11th from across the river.
[00:15:25]  Well, we'll get to that.
[00:15:27]  But even, I mean, like, German intelligence had, I mean, they were basically, you know, had infiltrated like a bunch of the cells in Germany where KSM was, I believe.
[00:15:43]  Well, I know that there was those four from the, went to school in Munich, right?
[00:15:48]  Yeah, and there was like the Al-Quds Mosque that they were all hanging out at.
[00:15:51]  And German intelligence had all of that.
[00:15:53]  And they said they were giving it to the Americans.
[00:15:55]  But, you know.
[00:15:56]  I can't believe the Gellen organization failed like that.
[00:16:02]  Yeah.
[00:16:02]  And there's a really interesting thing that Fenton brings up in his book around that.
[00:16:10]  Because, yeah, the signs were getting extremely clear, even to foreign intelligence agencies.
[00:16:15]  I think it's hard to know to what extent some of these foreign intelligence agencies were part of the plot.
[00:16:20]  I mean, certainly Mossad and the GID were.
[00:16:23]  But like were the Europeans.
[00:16:24]  It's not clear.
[00:16:26]  But definitely they, you know, all kinds of European, different European intelligence agencies became aware that something was going to happen based on just the activities of these people.
[00:16:37]  And at that point, like, you know, Believe and Wilshire basically have to go into damage control mode because they've been sitting on all this information for so long.
[00:16:46]  So they, you know, they go through this whole process of, you know, bringing the FBI on board, which is where Dina Corsi comes in.
[00:16:54]  And Wilshire basically instructs this person at the FBI, Dina Corsi, to steam to stonewall as much as possible.
[00:17:03]  And she, all these bureaucratic steps that she takes to delay, delay, delay the investigation.
[00:17:10]  And actually, somebody in the FBI began to start looking up because through another investigation, they started to get some of the names of the hijackers from the USS coal bombing investigation.
[00:17:23]  So the FBI had some of these names.
[00:17:26]  And literally on the day of 9-11, basically Coursey found the most junior person that she possibly could who had never done an investigation like this before, gave him these names, and literally on the day of 9-11, he was just starting to look these people up.
[00:17:43]  Oh my god.
[00:17:44]  Fantastic.
[00:17:45]  And how did that investigation go?
[00:17:48]  Yeah, well, I think he looked out his window and said, oh, shit.

=== CIA Names Uncovered (04:48) ===

[00:17:51]  He's like, I guess I guess I've been reassigned.
[00:17:54]  Yes.
[00:17:55]  I have to follow around like a 40-year-old liquor store owner in New Jersey for the next eight years and then get one of his mentally ill cousins to do a fake terrorist attack.
[00:18:05]  And even he was also stonewalling, or else he was just completely incompetent because all of these people's information was in public databases.
[00:18:16]  So once you, it was not hard to find them, right?
[00:18:19]  Once you have their names, you can put them into these commercial, you know, like databases that companies might use to do background checks on people or credit checks or whatever.
[00:18:27]  You can find those people extremely easily.
[00:18:29]  Their apartments are listed under their given names.
[00:18:32]  Like it was not hard to find them, which is why they were mysteriously immediately identified as soon as the attacks happened.
[00:18:41]  But he did not.
[00:18:42]  You could put them into the promise software even.
[00:18:44]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:18:45]  And somehow they didn't come up.
[00:18:48]  So even he was stonewalling it to the very, very last.
[00:18:54]  Yeah, that is.
[00:18:55]  So whatever happened to this guy?
[00:18:58]  I don't know.
[00:18:59]  I actually don't know.
[00:19:00]  A lot of these people are just named anonymously or they're given sort of pseudonyms in the, for example, the 9-11 Commission report or the congressional inquiry.
[00:19:10]  So we don't really know who all these people are.
[00:19:13]  It's, you know, Blee, for example, his identity was discovered basically on accident.
[00:19:17]  Somebody put his last name handwritten on a document that got scanned and uploaded to a database that was FOIA.
[00:19:26]  And some intrepid, I think it was Fenton himself or one of his assistants, you know, was just going through all these documents and happened to see his name.
[00:19:34]  Interesting.
[00:19:35]  Yeah, I think that's something that like there's a lot of names that people know, but there's so many more names that like no one has ever heard of.
[00:19:46]  And this like comes up a lot in, I think, when we're talking about just power more broadly and like, you know, when we talk about like deep state actors and particularly like financial areas, like the big names that we know are not even really the guys that are probably the ones handling a lot of this stuff.
[00:20:07]  Do you know what I mean?
[00:20:07]  Totally.
[00:20:08]  Yeah, I mean, I think they often sort of serve it, like maybe the big names might serve as like the head of these networks or something.
[00:20:14]  Exactly.
[00:20:14]  But, like... I always think about that when I think about Jamie Dimon.
[00:20:18]  Oh, really?
[00:20:18]  Because I'm always just like, Jamie Dimon serves as such a good avatar, but like he's not, it's not just, you know what I mean?
[00:20:25]  Like there's so many people that you've just, you will never ever hear of their names.
[00:20:30]  Yeah.
[00:20:31]  Ever.
[00:20:32]  And they are the ones at every, like the people scheduling the Carlisle group meetings that don't even go to the Carlisle group meetings.
[00:20:40]  You know what I mean?
[00:20:41]  Yeah.
[00:20:42]  Guys like me.
[00:20:43]  Oogabooga.
[00:20:44]  It's like so scary.
[00:20:46]  Yeah.
[00:20:46]  I mean, well, it's funny.
[00:20:47]  The CIA sort of has this like cast of main characters that everyone's heard of.
[00:20:52]  Engleton, Colby, et cetera.
[00:20:54]  Yeah.
[00:20:54]  My favorite, of course, is who's the fat guy?
[00:20:58]  What's his fucking name?
[00:20:59]  Cut this part.
[00:21:00]  I can't remember his fucking name.
[00:21:01]  My favorite guy is William Harvey because William Harvey arrived at Berlin Station.
[00:21:07]  He went to go take a shit and his gun fell out of his pants and fell out from under his stall.
[00:21:12]  So I find him to be a sympathetic character, even though he is a fucking piece of shit like cold-blooded murderer.
[00:21:18]  But yeah, I mean, so who knows?
[00:21:21]  Again, like they hide a lot of these people's names.
[00:21:25]  But one of those people that they've name, you mentioned before, George Tennant, his name comes up in something I'm about to mention here.
[00:21:33]  So a lot of people know that, or you might have heard, I don't know, I don't know if a lot of people actually know the details, but about sort of the insider trading and the weird financial stuff that went around 9-11, right?
[00:21:46]  And I have been looking into that quite a bit.
[00:21:49]  I've been down, as listeners to the show may know, I am very stupid.
[00:21:53]  So it's very difficult for me to understand financial terms or words or even what money is.
[00:22:03]  I kind of, I don't really even know that.
[00:22:05]  But there was quite a lot of weird, funny stuff with money going around right before 9-11, right?
[00:22:13]  Yes.
[00:22:14]  Really quick, right before we get to that, I do want to mention, just in case our listeners don't know who George Tennant is.
[00:22:20]  Yeah.
[00:22:21]  But he's the former director of the CIA.
[00:22:23]  And he, I believe he was there from like the late, late 90s to like 2004, 2005.
[00:22:30]  I think he was executive director or something like that.
[00:22:33]  Oh.
[00:22:35]  I don't know.
[00:22:36]  I don't remember the years.
[00:22:37]  He was definitely pretty senior under both Clinton and Bush for sure.

=== Deutsche Bank's Role (16:34) ===

[00:22:40]  Never mind.
[00:22:40]  You're right.
[00:22:40]  He was the director.
[00:22:41]  I'm thinking of a different guy who he appointed.
[00:22:43]  Well, thank you.
[00:22:44]  I'm right.
[00:22:45]  But yeah, so he's like, and I actually think he works, I think he's at an investment bank now, which is not surprising.
[00:22:52]  Well, so a lot of people understand.
[00:22:55]  CIA started from Wall Street lawyers and it has never strayed very far from that.
[00:23:00]  Yeah.
[00:23:00]  Both lawyers and Wall Street.
[00:23:01]  It's like how a lot of the leading Nazis were lawyers because at one point, like in the 20s, everyone in Europe or excuse me, in Germany got a PhD.
[00:23:09]  A lot of our leading Nazis are Wall Street guys.
[00:23:13]  Yeah.
[00:23:14]  Well, first of all, people should understand.
[00:23:16]  So the CIA actually tracks financial transactions, like stock markets, et cetera, very closely.
[00:23:24]  And they actually use the promise software to do that, which I think is very funny, Robert Maxwell connection right there.
[00:23:31]  But they did it before 9-11.
[00:23:33]  After 9-11, they kind of came out in the open with it with something called Project Prophecy, which is, you know, they use both the Promise software and other, or basically now descendants of the Promise software to investigate weird sort of financial transactions to try to predict terrorist attacks.
[00:23:53]  No idea what the efficacy of that is or even if that's actually the point of them doing it.
[00:23:59]  But one thing, so check this out.
[00:24:02]  Do you know what, Liz, can you explain to our listeners what short selling is?
[00:24:06]  Oh, God.
[00:24:07]  Yeah.
[00:24:07]  Okay.
[00:24:08]  So, well, short selling is basically, it's basically taking a bet that you take a bet saying or like predicting that a certain option or an asset will probably hit a low price at a certain point in the future.
[00:24:30]  And so you take out, you basically take out a contract that says that you are like, you know, that you have the option to sell this asset at this price in the future, hoping that it goes down.
[00:24:49]  So it's basically like betting against a stock, if that makes sense.
[00:24:53]  Yeah.
[00:24:54]  It's what you would call a bearish position as opposed to a bullish position.
[00:24:57]  So when people talk about the stock market being like just betting, this is what they're talking about, kind of?
[00:25:02]  Or is this the same thing?
[00:25:03]  I mean, I think this, you know, the stock market really is just a betting market.
[00:25:08]  But this is a bet that something's going to go down in price as opposed to like you're saying like, oh, I'm going to, like I was telling you earlier, like so many people right now have these short positions on Tesla and they're losing a lot of money because the Tesla stock for some ungodly reason keeps going up, even though it's a total Ponzi scheme.
[00:25:28]  Check out an upcoming Truan episode about that.
[00:25:32]  We're teaching people how to short sell.
[00:25:34]  No.
[00:25:35]  But just the idea that they think that at some point in the future, Tesla is going to hit rock bottom.
[00:25:41]  And so they would end up making a lot of money if that were to be the case.
[00:25:44]  That's a pretty good bet, right?
[00:25:46]  Well, we'll see.
[00:25:47]  But famously, you know, people probably know about shorts because of the financial crisis.
[00:25:53]  As like, you know, there's that movie, The Big Short, where all those savvy, if you want to call them that, although they're also evil bankers, basically took out short positions on all the major banks because they saw they were completely over-leveraged with the in, you know, in the housing market.
[00:26:15]  Gotcha.
[00:26:16]  Well, so before 9-11, you might be surprised to find that there was quite a bit of short selling going on in a lot of institutions very connected to the attacks, but also literally in the buildings and sometimes even hitting the buildings.
[00:26:34]  So the 9-11 Commission talked about this a little bit, although they say that because they can't directly tie any of the perps to Al-Qaeda, that means that the whole investigation is basically useless.
[00:26:44]  It doesn't really mean anything.
[00:26:46]  But the German central bank president, a guy named Erst, I'm not going to try to pronounce this.
[00:26:51]  I wrote this, but I don't know how to pronounce it.
[00:26:53]  Welteke?
[00:26:54]  Welteke?
[00:26:55]  He said he goes over the transactions prior to 9-11, and he's like, this is absolutely proof of insider trading.
[00:27:02]  And the German central bank president, not exactly, you know, known for being a friend to the common man.
[00:27:09]  So if he's saying something like that, something's going on.
[00:27:12]  But a lot of people think that it was just an airline stock.
[00:27:15]  Like famously, there were a couple of airlines that had some short selling going on with them.
[00:27:22]  United Airlines was the big one.
[00:27:23]  Yes, that was a big one.
[00:27:24]  But it was also in oil and gold, which is very, you know, I'm a little gold bug.
[00:27:33]  Check this out.
[00:27:37]  So they basically eventually found a customer of Deutsche Bank's, Alex Brown, that was involved in this.
[00:27:46]  And so Deutsche Bank, well, you love Deutsche Bank, right, Liz?
[00:27:49]  God, the fucking bank.
[00:27:50]  I mean, what was, I can't remember the name of the episode we did on Deutsche Bank.
[00:27:53]  Deutsche Bank.
[00:27:54]  But we did an episode with Alex Skaggs about them, which is a must-listen.
[00:28:00]  But they were involved in trading United Airlines stock consisting of a 2,500 contract order that was, for an unknown reason, split into chunks of 500 contracts each and then directed to multiple exchanges around the country simultaneously.
[00:28:18]  They basically said that the 9-11 Commission was basically like, well, we can't connect that to Al-Qaeda.
[00:28:24]  So there's no real reason to look into that.
[00:28:26]  But Alex Brown.
[00:28:28]  No, sorry.
[00:28:28]  I didn't mean to interrupt you.
[00:28:30]  You raised your finger.
[00:28:31]  No, I was just going to say that that is like an ongoing, like if you guys read the 9-11 commission report, it's like an ongoing, it's like reads like a joke because they're basically like, well, actually this could have happened, but nothing to see.
[00:28:46]  Can't really prove it.
[00:28:47]  Even though everything is, I mean, the way they paper over everything and just kind of like throw up their hands is a joke.
[00:28:54]  Well, the big problem with the 9-11 Commission report is that it basically starts from the premise that this was an al-Qaeda terror attack.
[00:29:04]  And so for any evidence to really be admissible, it has to tie directly to like Osama bin Laden, Khalid Sheikh Muhammad, any of these colorful cast of characters.
[00:29:16]  But Alex Brown is interesting.
[00:29:18]  First of all, I know a girl named Alex Brown who used to, I believe, date the rock musician Jay Retard.
[00:29:25]  It ain't going to save me!
[00:29:28]  You can't say that at any time.
[00:29:29]  Well, he spelled it differently, so I'm allowed to say it.
[00:29:32]  It's a person's name, capital, you know, R.
[00:29:35]  So it's the oldest investment bank in the U.S., acquired by Deutsch Bank in 1999.
[00:29:42]  And check this out.
[00:29:43]  So according to these interviews that I read with an Baltimore-like investment banker named Ed Hale, he was recruited to the CIA in 1992 and served for about a decade.
[00:29:52]  And now the CIA, of course, recruits from all walks of life, you know, sometimes even podcasters.
[00:29:58]  He says, I was the perfect cover because I was all over the world with my vessels and trucking here in America.
[00:30:04]  So I was the perfect person to take somebody and send them out to Afghanistan or Uzbekistan.
[00:30:11]  Getting people into places where they could figure out the traces and the pathways of Osama bin Laden back in the 90s, Hale said.
[00:30:18]  I heard his name early on, Osama bin Laden.
[00:30:20]  I didn't know who he was.
[00:30:21]  It wasn't the household name that it became.
[00:30:24]  So this guy, starting in 1992, is getting people into Afghanistan using trucks, you know, obviously is, you know, ties to the transportation industry.
[00:30:33]  He was recruited by a guy named George Tennant.
[00:30:37]  Now, George Tennant is very, you know, as we mentioned earlier, George Tennant was a, I think the head of Alex Brown.
[00:30:48]  And he served there until about 1999, which I think is just one of those really crazy coincidences.
[00:30:54]  So this is from a website called from the wilderness.com.
[00:30:57]  This is no longer, now it just takes you to a casino webpage that has three articles about Marvel-themed, what are those things you call where you pull the handle?
[00:31:10]  Slot machines.
[00:31:11]  So this is from From the Web.
[00:31:13]  October series options from UAL Corp, that means United Airlines, were purchased in, oh, yeah, were purchased in highly usual volumes three trading days before the terrorist attacks for a total outlay of 2,700 or 2,070.
[00:31:27]  Investors bought the option contracts, each representing 100 shares for 90 cents each.
[00:31:32]  This represents 230,000 shares.
[00:31:34]  Those options are now selling at more than $12 each.
[00:31:38]  There are still 2,33 so-called put options outstanding, valued at $2.7 million and representing 231,300 shares, according to the Options Clearinghouse Corporation.
[00:31:52]  The source familiar with the United Trades identified Deutsch Bank Alex Brown, the American investment banking arm of German giant Deutsche Bank, as the investment bank used to purchase at least some of these options.
[00:32:05]  A investment bank that was run by a guy who was at this, at the point of 9-11, in fact, about, I think, six months before 9-11, George Tennant was appointed executive director of the CIA.
[00:32:17]  He had run this bank just a couple years prior, which I think is just fucking insane.
[00:32:24]  You know, and it's one of those connections that, like, you can't really, it's hard to explain to someone in a very quick way.
[00:32:31]  Like, I had to look up what a lot of these terms meant myself.
[00:32:36]  But it is just absolutely insane.
[00:32:39]  So, more on Deutsche Bank is that Deutsche Bank actually had offices right around the World Trade Center site.
[00:32:48]  They were demolished, I think, like five or six years later.
[00:32:52]  But they weren't the only people with offices there.
[00:32:54]  In Building 7, which we all know and love, there were a couple of very interesting, you know, I mean, you know who was in there.
[00:33:01]  Ben, you tell them.
[00:33:03]  Well, yeah, there were offices of the CIA were located inside World Trade Center 7.
[00:33:09]  And the SEC, which is the Security Exchange Commissions, which would be very, let's say, pertinent to what we're talking about.
[00:33:20]  So the data from the computers in those offices was, of course, mostly destroyed by the 9-11 tax.
[00:33:27]  Similar at the Pentagon as well, like we mentioned.
[00:33:29]  Of course, we all know that Building 7 was not hit by a plane, right?
[00:33:35]  And it just fell over due to strong crosswinds and the air generated from a particularly aggressive group of dancers located nearby.
[00:33:48]  Yeah, we definitely don't have the bandwidth right now to get into Building 7.
[00:33:53]  Oh, we'll talk about Building 7, but not today.
[00:33:56]  No, so the data from those computers was thought to be very important by at least some people.
[00:34:01]  And so they hired a company called Convars, a German company that was financial retrieval, all this kind of shit, to go in there.
[00:34:09]  And Convars actually gets some of the hard drives from the SEC computers in there.
[00:34:13]  And they say that they had, after they had restored the information from 32 computers, that there were suspicions that some of the 9-11 transactions were illegal.
[00:34:24]  So Richard Wagner, Wagner, which I don't like it when Germans are named that.
[00:34:28]  And so I'll just skip over it.
[00:34:29]  I'll just call him Richard from now on.
[00:34:30]  A Convar employee told Kirschbaum, which was our employer, excuse me, a reporter at Reuters, that illegal transfers of more than $100 million might have been made immediately before and during the disaster.
[00:34:42]  And there is a suspicion that some people had advanced knowledge of the approximate time of the plane crashes in order to move amounts exceeding $100 million.
[00:34:51]  They thought that the records of the transactions could not be traced after the mainframes were destroyed, which isn't great.
[00:35:01]  And according to that book, you know, have you ever read Crossing the Rubicon, Ben?
[00:35:07]  A very long time ago.
[00:35:08]  That was like one of my first introductions into this in high school, actually.
[00:35:12]  Well, according to that book, an unnamed Deutsche Bank employee says that about five minutes before the planes hit, their computers were taken over by an external system and all of their files were downloaded in different places across the country.
[00:35:31]  Of course, he evacuated that day, so, you know, he didn't stick around to see exactly what happened next.
[00:35:36]  But he also says there was a lot of sort of traffic and a lot of communication between the Alex Brown offices in Baltimore, New York, and, of course, Langley.
[00:35:50]  So, yeah, a little funny.
[00:35:52]  The next day, September 12th, the chairman of the board of Deutsche Bank, Alex Brown, Mayo, this guy, check out this guy's name.
[00:36:00]  Mayo A. Shattuck III.
[00:36:02]  He quits.
[00:36:04]  So the day after 9-11, this guy just fucking upped and quits.
[00:36:07]  Doesn't really say anything about it.
[00:36:08]  Never puts out a statement, even though he still had a three-year contract left and got like millions of dollars per year.
[00:36:15]  Check this out.
[00:36:17]  My man, Mayo, was also a trustee at Seagrams with, of course, Seagram's owned by the Brothman brothers, who, of course, were very closely connected to Leslie Wexner and thus Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:36:31]  And of course, they're connected to the entire deep state.
[00:36:33]  You know, their daughter was holding fundraisers with fucking Tim Kane in 2016, which is about as depraved as you can get.
[00:36:40]  Tim Kane up, Tim Kane in the membrane.
[00:36:44]  Tim Kane in the brain.
[00:36:47]  So, I mean, this thing is, it's just wild to see these names pop up over and over and over again.
[00:36:53]  Yeah, there were a couple lawsuits actually filed that, I mean, it sounds kind of wild.
[00:36:59]  It seems like the courts kind of threw them out because, again, insufficient paper trails and evidence.
[00:37:05]  But a couple people claimed to have like bribed FBI agents to get information about like advanced knowledge of September 11th in order to basically short a bunch of stocks.
[00:37:20]  No shit.
[00:37:21]  Yeah.
[00:37:21]  There's a piece in the Times from 2002 where, you know, it says a San Diego stock advisor was accused of bribing an FBI agent to give him confidential government information, which may have had prior knowledge of the September 11th attacks.
[00:37:38]  One current and one former FBI agent were charged Wednesday with using confidential government information to manipulate stock prices and extort money from companies.
[00:37:46]  So what's really fascinating about that too is that like you were saying, I don't know if this was before we started recording or after, but you were saying like, you know, people perhaps with advanced knowledge, you kind of like, you know, utilizing the market to make some off the books money, generate some profits.
[00:38:09]  But it sounds like, I mean, for as much as like all this information was kind of like Ben, as you were saying, getting like, you know, thrown in a black hole, kind of like, this isn't a term, but like dead zoned or whatever, that like it all kind of also, like a lot of people seemed to kind of know something was going to happen.
[00:38:31]  And we're all just kind of like all random people just seeing if they could cash in a little bit.
[00:38:38]  I kind of disagree with that.
[00:38:40]  I'm thinking, I'm thinking this was, this was similar to the drug trade operation where this was this deep state group just generating cash for itself.
[00:38:49]  It could be, I mean, both of these are basically just guesses.
[00:38:53]  But I'm actually sympathetic to both views because these people are basically like money pigs to begin with.
[00:39:01]  Yeah.
[00:39:02]  But I mean, if they were, if they were thinking of a way to basically pay for all of this and to perhaps pay for some further activities, this would be a great way to do it.
[00:39:12]  Yeah.
[00:39:13]  I mean, these are all the same people, right?

=== Yale Secret Societies Connections (02:51) ===

[00:39:15]  Like the people who go into the intelligence agencies know people who are in financial institutions from a lot of these like Yale secret societies and things like this.
[00:39:25]  You know, another funny, because I agree, I think like clearly this information was fairly widespread in certain circles.
[00:39:33]  Another example is a guy, Wert Walker III, another guy's name.
[00:39:39]  Wert Walker III.
[00:39:41]  That's right.
[00:39:42]  And he was he was part of this.
[00:39:44]  He was on the board of this company called, I think at the time it was called Securicom.
[00:39:48]  I might be called Strategy Second now.
[00:39:50]  I just hate companies called shit like that.
[00:39:52]  Yeah.
[00:39:53]  Always do something bad.
[00:39:55]  It's like comic book villain name.
[00:39:57]  Yeah.
[00:39:58]  And literally these, these, he was just on, he was on the board of directors, but another person on this board was Marvin Bush.
[00:40:04]  And he was one of the two people, the other one being the person you mentioned, Crongard, who was investigated that A.B. Brown situation, but he was the other person who was investigated by the SEC.
[00:40:15]  And the same thing.
[00:40:15]  They were like, well, this guy has no conceivable ties to Al-Qaeda, so therefore it was not insider trading.
[00:40:22]  When it very clearly was.
[00:40:24]  I just realized something.
[00:40:25]  What?
[00:40:25]  I feel like, did I mention Crongard's name or did I call him George Tennant?
[00:40:29]  I think you called him George Tennant.
[00:40:31]  No, Crongard was basically, he was at Alex Brown and he was the guy who he was recruited to be George Tennant's assistant.
[00:40:39]  Yes.
[00:40:40]  Yeah.
[00:40:40]  And Buzzy Crongard actually was the person who got Ed Hick.
[00:40:44]  I know.
[00:40:45]  Is like, also like joke name of CIA agent, Buzzy Congard, yeah goddamn, yeah.
[00:40:55]  So wait yeah, tell me, tell me more about where.
[00:40:58]  Well yeah so, so you know, he was on this board of directors of this company and they did things like, did the security, you know?
[00:41:06]  Like, if you walk through the metal detector at the World Trade Center, for example, it was probably a StrateSec person who was running that metal detector and the metal detector was probably owned by them.
[00:41:14]  So I think he probably assumed correctly that there would be much more demand for this for his company, the company he was on the board of, for their services, following something like this.
[00:41:23]  So he buys a ton of stock in this company uh strateg uh literally, to the day before, I think it.
[00:41:30]  I think the last purchase he made was on the 10th um, and yeah the, the SEC passes along information to the FBI based on the fact that this seems very much like an insider trade, and the FBI says, well, he's not, he's not connected to uh Al-qaeda, but of course he was on the board with Marvin Bush.
[00:41:48]  Marvin Bush has all these Carlisle connections.
[00:41:50]  It's absolutely not inconceivable.
[00:41:52]  Yeah, I mean, if you're like one, if you're like literally one degree of separation.
[00:41:57]  Which, and the degree of separation?
[00:41:58]  Is your father right away from a Bin Laden?
[00:42:02]  I feel like that counts as at least a tenuous connection.

=== Important Continuity in Government (14:43) ===

[00:42:06]  You know, i'm sure that the details of this plot were were dinner table conversations, yeah, bushes at this time, you know it's like so ugh, it's really upsetting.
[00:42:16]  I know it's like really internalized.
[00:42:18]  Well, it's it's also like I I got really I watched a lot of 9-11 footage the other day of like the, the planes hitting the towers and then people jumping out and hanging out of windows and all that stuff, and it would just struck me i'm like I can't believe like that someone did this, like it's insane that they did this to basically to, to profit and to into well, not just profit, but to extend the hand of America further into the world.
[00:42:46]  It's yeah, that's the thing that I kind of want to like pinpoint is that I mean the.
[00:42:52]  You know it it's like really important to stress the effects and like what it's not.
[00:42:58]  You know what I mean.
[00:42:59]  Like you know, you mentioned on the on the last episode we did that basically a way to think about 9-11 to not make yourself go too crazy, or maybe it is to make yourself go crazy.
[00:43:10]  I don't know.
[00:43:10]  But is almost like a media event that basically, you know, not to sound too whatever, but like manufactured consent for the expansion of the executive office, intelligence agencies, like you said about the CIA getting their hands literally everywhere.
[00:43:31]  Yeah.
[00:43:32]  And then continued, you know, American expeditions and also private expeditions, you know, throughout the Middle Middle East and Central Asia.
[00:43:43]  And I think that like that part of the story sometimes even gets like disregarded, but it's really important to like understand because the intelligence agencies had been pushing for years for expanded powers and over like under Clinton, it was like a really big initiative.
[00:44:05]  I have like a theory that like HW wasn't supposed to lose in 96.
[00:44:11]  Really?
[00:44:12]  Yeah.
[00:44:12]  And that kind of like through, because like, you know, my whole theory about that like pretty much the only way to explain a lot of American history is through infighting in the intelligence agency.
[00:44:23]  Yeah, this is Liz's big, this is her.
[00:44:25]  Like Obama makes a lot of sense there.
[00:44:27]  Hillary at State makes a lot of sense there when you start to understand like the different kind of visions and like who the kind of like avatars in like defense, you know, defense like intellectuals basically that all those things kind or all those people really tell a better story of American history than like kind of the big names that get thrown around.
[00:44:52]  But I do kind of have a weird feeling because basically under Clinton, like, you know, the CIA, you know, the NSA and CIA were really pushing hard for like expanded, like basically overreach.
[00:45:08]  And they didn't really get it from him and they couldn't really get it from Congress.
[00:45:13]  He's like, I can execute Ricky Ray myself.
[00:45:15]  I don't need a, I don't need a fucking FBI agent to do it for me.
[00:45:19]  No, but it's true.
[00:45:20]  And like it didn't really pick up any steam from my understanding.
[00:45:26]  Yeah.
[00:45:26]  You know, another example of that, going back to Richard Blee, you know, Cheney gave this speech when he was the CEO of Halbert in, I think, 98, basically saying the Caspian is this super important place now for oil extraction.
[00:45:41]  Blee becomes the head of trying to create this security relationship with Uzbekistan and goes there in 99.
[00:45:47]  And he's trying to push for more American involvement in the region, more CIA special operations in the region.
[00:45:54]  And basically it doesn't get anywhere.
[00:45:56]  And then he presides over the supposed intelligence failure.
[00:46:00]  And then immediately after that, what happens?
[00:46:02]  There's a ton of American soldiers right next door to Uzbekistan and Afghanistan.
[00:46:07]  Have, yeah, we I think we also don't we have bases.
[00:46:10]  I can't remember actually if it's Uzbekistan or Kazakhstan.
[00:46:13]  No, yeah, it was.
[00:46:14]  Uzbekistan was a was definitely a base for special operations as the as the invasion was beginning.
[00:46:20]  And I know they have a lot of listening posts sort of things around there too for to spy on China.
[00:46:26]  I don't know if I mentioned this last episode, but something I was really tickled to find out was that we actually had a listening post in Xinjiang during the Soviet-Afghan war.
[00:46:39]  Interesting.
[00:46:40]  I bet they still wish they had that.
[00:46:42]  I feel like I would be, it would be remiss if I didn't mention here the 2000 election because, well, I know we're going all over the place, but I do just really want, just because of my funny theory about how HW wasn't supposed to lose to Clinton.
[00:46:57]  But it is like really important one to remember.
[00:47:00]  And also that's so fucking insane that fucking Dick Cheney was the vice president.
[00:47:06]  It is, yeah.
[00:47:07]  It's like insane that he was on the ticket.
[00:47:09]  I never hear his name anymore.
[00:47:10]  But when I was growing up, Dick Cheney was like way more than Bush was sort of like, although it's not true, he was sort of like, you know, whiffled aside as like this moron.
[00:47:19]  And Dick Cheney was like the real sort of Machiavellian and like classic villain.
[00:47:24]  Yeah.
[00:47:25]  And you just don't hear anything about him.
[00:47:26]  Even with that Dumbo movie.
[00:47:28]  I didn't watch the movie or whatever.
[00:47:29]  Me either.
[00:47:30]  Looks stupid.
[00:47:31]  It's too pornographic for my.
[00:47:32]  You saw it, Ben?
[00:47:34]  No, I did not.
[00:47:35]  If Ben hasn't seen it, then it's like a joke movie.
[00:47:38]  I think I can just imagine, I would just get so mad.
[00:47:40]  I know myself.
[00:47:40]  Didn't those guys make the big short too?
[00:47:43]  Yeah, and I hated that movie.
[00:47:44]  Liz fucking hates.
[00:47:45]  Liz has told me she hates the big short probably once a week.
[00:47:48]  It really upsets me, that movie.
[00:47:49]  But anyway, but I just want to say that like, you know, we're talking about this and, you know, like you mentioned with the intelligence agencies and, you know, they have a lot of, you know, they had a lot of plans, it seems, that they were trying to get through dealing with the Caspian Sea, dealing with Central Asia.
[00:48:09]  And, you know, it was really key, I think, that Bush and, of course, Cheney, you know, got into the White House.
[00:48:20]  And, you know, let's not, you know, the 2000 election, again, was decided by the Supreme Court in a completely unprecedented manner.
[00:48:30]  Bush v. Gore cannot be, it's the only case in SCODA's history that is, it's written into the decision that it can never be cited as precedent.
[00:48:40]  Yep.
[00:48:41]  It's a completely like the only way to understand what happened was as like a judicial coup, in my opinion.
[00:48:49]  Yeah.
[00:48:50]  Yeah.
[00:48:50]  And like, it's really not thought of in that way.
[00:48:54]  I mean, I think if that happened again, for instance, in like this next election, I mean, it would be like civil war or something.
[00:49:00]  I don't know.
[00:49:01]  I really don't know.
[00:49:01]  I mean, what happened in 2000 was so insane.
[00:49:05]  Yeah.
[00:49:05]  And the way that the media, again, this comes up all the time on our podcast, but it's also really important as we're talking about 9-11 and what we're about to get into when we talk about anthrax is the way the media is able to create these narratives that justify like anything that the U.S. government is doing is maddening.
[00:49:27]  And I remember, you know, during the 2000 election, it was like, well, I mean, the whole thing was, well, we just have to have a president now because what happens if we don't?
[00:49:38]  It was like the most insane logic that you've ever heard.
[00:49:40]  But literally everyone was like, well, that makes, you know, that makes sense.
[00:49:43]  Because what will we do?
[00:49:44]  And it's like, what?
[00:49:45]  Well, it was also just like they confuse the issue so much like with the Florida stuff.
[00:49:50]  And remember that's the voter machines?
[00:49:52]  Well, we're not going to get into Ohio.
[00:49:54]  Don't get me started on Ohio.
[00:49:56]  Oh my God.
[00:49:56]  If you talk about hanging Chad's, I don't know what I'm going to do.
[00:49:59]  Yeah.
[00:50:01]  By the way, now, check this out.
[00:50:02]  I just thought of something.
[00:50:04]  In 2000, they talked about hanging Chad's.
[00:50:06]  In 2020, they're also talking about it.
[00:50:08]  But now everyone's like the Joker in an incel.
[00:50:11]  They're talking about hanging Chad's.
[00:50:14]  Totally.
[00:50:14]  You know, the more things change, the more things stay the same.
[00:50:17]  Hanging virgin versus hanging Chad.
[00:50:19]  Exactly.
[00:50:20]  No, but I just wanted to bring that up and mention that because I actually do really think it's important to understand that like, okay, the United States, I mean, I know this, whatever, this is just me going off for a second, but I just want to say this.
[00:50:33]  Like, I think people think of the United States as just a democracy, just a Western democracy.
[00:50:39]  And they don't understand that like we live in the imperial core, that like we live in the center of it all.
[00:50:47]  And in 2000, there was like a judicial coup to instate a president that then like led to an expanded security state and expanded plunder, both private and for the U.S. government in particular, for 25 years.
[00:51:06]  Yeah.
[00:51:07]  20 years.
[00:51:08]  You know what I mean?
[00:51:09]  So like, it's just really important to understand like that little part of the story because, you know, we really haven't talked about Cheney.
[00:51:18]  We haven't fucking talked about Rumsfeld.
[00:51:19]  But like these guys are serious dudes.
[00:51:23]  Yeah.
[00:51:24]  Like for as much shit as we talk about the like insane cast of like in a lot of ways, like I was joking with a friend that like the Trump admin feels a lot like a weird like, you know, like when a sitcom does like 20 years later and they have like a reunion shit.
[00:51:43]  It's like the Seinfeld reunion on Kirby and Thunder.
[00:51:46]  Yeah, but it's all like weird people from different seasons.
[00:51:49]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:51:50]  Like it doesn't totally make sense.
[00:51:52]  Yeah.
[00:51:52]  Like that's kind of like the Trump admin feels like a real like hodgepodge of all of these people that kind of like don't fit together.
[00:51:59]  Like Roger Stone's back.
[00:52:00]  You're like, how could, like, there is absolutely no logical way for, like, John Bolton and Roger Stone to exist in the same.
[00:52:08]  But that's my point.
[00:52:09]  You know what I mean?
[00:52:10]  And so it's like all these people just kind of like throwing shit at the walls and seeing who can like stick it out in that admin.
[00:52:16]  But like the Bush administration was the complete opposite of that.
[00:52:19]  I mean, it was like a real efficient machine.
[00:52:23]  Yeah, the Peanut Cabal, they definitely had a plan going way back to the seven.
[00:52:28]  I mean, obviously, you know, Rumsfeld and Cheney were very senior in Ford's administration and also in Reagan's.
[00:52:36]  I mean, they've been scheming for a very long time.
[00:52:41]  Part of this kind of ties into the continuity of government thing, which every time I talk about it, I sound like a sovereign citizen.
[00:52:49]  You know, honestly, fine.
[00:52:51]  Like, if someone doesn't accept like the, yeah, no, that's sovereign citizens are a-okay with me.
[00:52:58]  Yeah, they just want to make the law real, you know.
[00:53:00]  Race is coming out as a sovereign citizen and a gold bug.
[00:53:02]  Yeah.
[00:53:03]  My God, I love gold and I hate the government.
[00:53:05]  I'm sorry.
[00:53:06]  Is this not cool now?
[00:53:09]  It's not like Jehu.
[00:53:12]  Respect, respect.
[00:53:14]  Oh, yeah.
[00:53:14]  I think he's sorry.
[00:53:15]  This is kind of a tangent, but somebody was sending weird messages, cryptic messages to people on Twitter.
[00:53:21]  Everybody who ever mentioned Jehu on Twitter for like the past several years saying that there's a podcast that he's doing that's coming.
[00:53:26]  I'm kind of excited for it.
[00:53:28]  Oh my God.
[00:53:28]  I remember when he unfollowed me and I got so sad.
[00:53:30]  Dude, if that's finally the Red Kahina cast, oh shit.
[00:53:35]  It's him versus fucking Jay or her versus fucking Jehu.
[00:53:38]  Dude, that would, we got to get Jehoo.
[00:53:40]  To our listeners who don't know who Jehu is, look it up.
[00:53:43]  Yeah, he's the lead singer of the band Drives Like Jehu.
[00:53:47]  No.
[00:53:48]  He's great.
[00:53:49]  I actually, unironically, he's great.
[00:53:51]  I love that block.
[00:53:52]  Yeah, I stand.
[00:53:54]  I fully stand.
[00:53:55]  Totally.
[00:53:56]  But the continuity of government stuff, right?
[00:53:58]  Like they, you know, what I mean, what that was, ostensibly was like, in the event of a nuclear attack, there needs to be some people in place who can administer whatever's left of the federal government.
[00:54:12]  And, you know, who was part of these meetings during the Clinton administration, but Rumsfeld and Cheney, right?
[00:54:18]  They're making all these plans.
[00:54:20]  And then when 9-11 happens, they activate this and literally sent a huge number of bureaucrats to basically a cave.
[00:54:29]  I think it was in West Virginia.
[00:54:31]  And it's not so much that they, you know, quote unquote suspended the Constitution.
[00:54:35]  Like, I don't even know what that means to do that.
[00:54:37]  But what they did do was they got all these bureaucrats together, had them writing new laws, creating new policies.
[00:54:43]  This is what the John Yu torture memos came out of this.
[00:54:46]  Yeah, professor at Stanford, by the way.
[00:54:48]  Yeah, yeah, very illustrious professor, professor of war crimes.
[00:54:52]  Yeah, he should be.
[00:54:53]  Yeah, he needs to, yeah.
[00:54:55]  It was all, but it was the bureaucratic coup.
[00:54:57]  Young Chonsky, hit me with the yeah, let's do a double.
[00:55:02]  All right.
[00:55:03]  Yeah, good.
[00:55:04]  Fucking, that guy is right in our backyard and he needs a little taste of his own medicine.
[00:55:09]  Parody.
[00:55:11]  Yeah.
[00:55:14]  No, I mean, it's true what you say.
[00:55:15]  I mean, like, I don't think that people really, again, I get really pissed off about this with all the Trumpist area just because like I don't I don't think that people really fully appreciate how insane the Bushiers were.
[00:55:29]  And also like that we're still living in the situation they created.
[00:55:33]  Like the expansion of the executive that happened under Bush, like you say, all the torture memos, basically literally just writing legal justifications for expanding their own power.
[00:55:44]  And, you know, they held up, right?
[00:55:46]  There were very few.
[00:55:48]  I mean, not even talking about, and we haven't even gotten into the Patriot Act or any of that stuff, but literally just the executive memos that they wrote.
[00:55:55]  I mean, Obama utilized the same justifications, just as Trump is doing.
[00:56:00]  Like, we are still living in effectively like what is a, you know, I mean, this is Cheney's, it's the theory of the unitary executive, right?
[00:56:10]  And Congress, you know, now I'm really going to go off, but it's like Congress is basically a functionary, right?
[00:56:16]  So you really only have two branches of government.
[00:56:18]  You have the executive that determines everything and then the judiciary that, you know, look, you know, I've got a lot of tinfoil stuff to say about the Supreme Court, but I mean, they basically, you know, pick and choose based on what I think is, you know, media stuff on what they're going to check and what they're not.
[00:56:42]  So we were, you know, this idea that we have like three branches of government, I mean, it's all bullshit.
[00:56:47]  Maybe I sound like a sovereign citizen now.

=== Anthrax Sent to Congress (06:18) ===

[00:56:49]  I don't know.
[00:56:49]  But like it's really important.
[00:56:53]  The part of the story that is so important to me is like understanding how, I mean, they just were able to push through the Patriot Act through all of this shit, you know?
[00:57:03]  And all the intelligence agencies got what they had been demanding for like 15 years.
[00:57:08]  Yep.
[00:57:08]  And they and they sent they sent bioweapons to a couple of members of Congress.
[00:57:13]  To do it.
[00:57:14]  Yeah.
[00:57:14]  Okay.
[00:57:14]  Let's get into that.
[00:57:15]  Hold on.
[00:57:16]  I have to pee really bad.
[00:57:18]  I'm so sorry.
[00:57:19]  You guys keep talking to keep the energy up.
[00:57:21]  Don't record it or anything unless you guys say something.
[00:57:23]  Okay.
[00:57:23]  Okay.
[00:57:24]  But don't talk shit on me either.
[00:57:25]  Dude, I actually really do have a theory about, because I mean, big law and all that stuff, when you talk about like skull and bones, Yale people, I mean, SCODIS is like all that shit.
[00:57:35]  Oh, yeah.
[00:57:35]  Do you ever read about the alfalfa dinners?
[00:57:39]  No, I don't.
[00:57:40]  Oh my God.
[00:57:40]  It's scary shit.
[00:57:42]  Because that's like Carlisle group, Loveville, like, you know, eyes wide shut meeting style stuff.
[00:57:48]  I mean, it's not sex group, but like, you know, like deep state people.
[00:57:52]  But it's been going back like forever, these like, you know, annual dinners.
[00:57:57]  And like every time they like appoint a like leader of the dinner, then I think they do like a little bit of a roast.
[00:58:05]  But it's like, you know, when you look back and see like who was appointed, it's like, oh, there's Phil Clinton.
[00:58:11]  Oh, there's Obama.
[00:58:12]  Oh, there's.
[00:58:13]  Yeah, it's like really freaky.
[00:58:14]  They had like, I don't think Kavanaugh was there, but it was like some, you know what I mean?
[00:58:20]  It's like that fucking club.
[00:58:22]  So Bezos hosted the dinner this year.
[00:58:25]  Oh, Jesus.
[00:58:25]  And they appointed Mitt Romney.
[00:58:29]  Have you read the like theories about Romney?
[00:58:31]  Because he's fucking crazy.
[00:58:34]  Yeah.
[00:58:35]  I mean, he's actually nuts.
[00:58:36]  Yeah, he's actually nuts.
[00:58:37]  He's also like totally an agent.
[00:58:40]  But it's like Bronze Age Pervert has like some crazy theories about him, like wanting to like overtake the government and institute weird religious law.
[00:58:49]  Isn't that what Bronze Age Pervert was?
[00:58:50]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:58:51]  No, I don't know.
[00:58:53]  I don't know.
[00:58:53]  I could get into it, though, because the Mormon shit is weird.
[00:58:57]  Yes.
[00:58:57]  I know.
[00:58:58]  It's definitely tied up with cartels.
[00:58:59]  Yeah.
[00:59:00]  Yeah.
[00:59:00]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:59:01]  That actually came out in mainstream news, I think, last year.
[00:59:04]  Really?
[00:59:04]  There was like a Vice documentary.
[00:59:05]  I mean, it's Vice, but there was a Vice documentary about it.
[00:59:10]  Or maybe there was a Vice.
[00:59:11]  No, there was a Vice documentary that positioned them as fighting the cartels.
[00:59:15]  No, what I'm thinking of, it was when the Nexium member was killed in Mexico.
[00:59:20]  She was with a bunch of Mormons.
[00:59:22]  Yes.
[00:59:23]  And that was obviously a cartel murder.
[00:59:28]  Yeah.
[00:59:28]  Like, oh, it was a cartel murder, but it was obviously like a turf war sort of thing.
[00:59:32]  But there's like a bunch of CIA guys in like the Mormon church.
[00:59:35]  Like it's very strange.
[00:59:37]  Yeah, no, they have a ton of guys.
[00:59:38]  And Utah in general is very strange.
[00:59:40]  Also, like, what's a great cover for going around is dressing.
[00:59:44]  Like missionary shit.
[00:59:45]  Yeah.
[00:59:46]  Yeah.
[00:59:47]  Well, anyway, let's get into Anthrax.
[00:59:50]  Yeah, let's get to Anthrax.
[00:59:51]  So first of all, they fucking rock.
[00:59:55]  And I'm so excited that we're finally doing kind of like a music sort of thing.
[01:00:00]  Welcome to 9-11 by Noisy, the Vice Music Block.
[01:00:05]  You are talking metal.
[01:00:06]  No, so we're talking anthrax.
[01:00:09]  Lay some powder on me, baby.
[01:00:11]  Should I jump in?
[01:00:12]  I'll do this.
[01:00:13]  Yeah.
[01:00:13]  Yeah.
[01:00:13]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[01:00:14]  I would say I would refer into the woman as baby.
[01:00:17]  Oh, I'll do baby.
[01:00:18]  No, but I like calling guys baby too.
[01:00:20]  It makes me feel mature.
[01:00:21]  We can both talk about it.
[01:00:24]  Yeah, so I mean, well, I guess I could start.
[01:00:28]  Yeah, the anthrax attacks kind of gotten, have kind of gotten forgotten about because I think they basically didn't really work out the way that the people who were planning them intended to.
[01:00:37]  Yes.
[01:00:39]  But basically, a number of, maybe for people who don't remember or were too young, a number of envelopes filled with anthrax were sent around primarily to various journalists and then also to two members of the Senate, Tom Daschell and Patrick Leahy.
[01:01:00]  I can hear like half our listeners being like, this sounds fucking awesome.
[01:01:05]  I mean, it was pretty cool.
[01:01:07]  Unfortunately, it was done by the CIA.
[01:01:10]  Yes.
[01:01:11]  Yes.
[01:01:13]  It was, you know, it's still, I mean, the official story is that they don't know who did it, which is kind of insane to think about.
[01:01:22]  It's the only bioweapons attack that's ever occurred on American soil that we know of.
[01:01:26]  And it was a very special sort.
[01:01:28]  It was like a strain of anthrax that was developed by the U.S. military and only available in a handful of labs.
[01:01:34]  And I think only one of them was civilian.
[01:01:37]  Yeah.
[01:01:37]  And Graham McQueen's book, The 2001 Anthrax Deceptions, is really great on this topic.
[01:01:42]  And he, yeah, he runs through it.
[01:01:44]  So there were two different, not strains, but two different types of anthrax that were sent out that were treated slightly differently in terms of the procedure that they were prepared with.
[01:01:54]  Yeah, the Daschel one was milled, I think, which made it easier to inhale.
[01:01:58]  Yeah, but and particularly the second one that was sent to Leahy and Daschel, among others, was especially heavily concentrated.
[01:02:11]  They have all these processes for making sure that it stays in the air, essentially suspended.
[01:02:15]  So they do these things to get rid of its static charge.
[01:02:18]  They make sure it doesn't clump together by coating it in things like silicon and things like this.
[01:02:22]  And initially, the story was that this was from Iraq, that this was Iraqi anthrax that had been sent to the United States by people in al-Qaeda.
[01:02:35]  And it very quickly became clear that the strain of anthrax was one that was chiefly American and used by American and Western labs.
[01:02:46]  It was not something that was available to Iraq.
[01:02:49]  And then the way that it was weaponized was not something that even Iraq could do.
[01:02:54]  I mean, Iraq had some capacity to weaponize anthrax, but A, they probably didn't have a biological weapons program at this time.
[01:03:01]  And two, what this anthrax was was not something that Iraq could produce.

=== Tiny Numbers Matter (02:05) ===

[01:03:07]  Yeah.
[01:03:09]  And then they had this whole, I mean, you probably won't be surprised to hear that they first tried to blame a Muslim scientist working inside the U.S. bioweapons industry.
[01:03:19]  They picked this second guy to be their target, and he actually successfully sued the FBI for leaking his name to the corporate.
[01:03:27]  He got like millions of dollars, I think.
[01:03:29]  Yes.
[01:03:29]  And actually, it's very possible that he did actually have something to do with it.
[01:03:34]  Really?
[01:03:35]  He, yeah, he has a weird, um, is this Steve, Steve Hatfield, I think is his name.
[01:03:41]  Um, he was in, he like is barely a doctor.
[01:03:45]  He started off as a lab tech, and then he decided he wanted to be a doctor, and he went to medical school in South Africa.
[01:03:52]  And he was I don't like that.
[01:03:54]  Yeah, yeah, which like South Africa has a weird history with biological weapons.
[01:03:59]  Like they, there were definitely South African government-affiliated paramilitaries spreading AIDS in Mozambique, like all kinds of weird stuff like that.
[01:04:06]  Absolutely.
[01:04:07]  But he was, he was in Zimbabwe when the Rhodesian government, the white minority government, was using anthrax against the civilian population, the majority black population of Zimbabwe.
[01:04:22]  So he was there for that.
[01:04:24]  I mean, it's not clear that he was involved in that, but like it's very possible.
[01:04:28]  I think people need to realize there were very few whites actually in Rhodesia.
[01:04:33]  Like it was not a tiny, tiny number of people.
[01:04:35]  A tiny, tiny number of people.
[01:04:37]  So the idea that like somebody, especially with this sort of background, education, and connections.
[01:04:43]  I mean, obviously this is before his ascent or whatever.
[01:04:46]  It is, you know, it's more likely than not that he might have seen being friends with somebody.
[01:04:52]  Well, and then obviously he came to the United States and became an anthrax researcher.
[01:04:56]  Exactly.
[01:04:57]  So it's not like completely.
[01:05:01]  But the third person that they picked was this guy, David Ivins, or Ivans, I don't know, his last name.
[01:05:05]  Yeah.
[01:05:05]  And he committed suicide.
[01:05:06]  I think he OD'd on Tylenol.
[01:05:09]  He OD'd on Tylenol, and I think so.

=== Crop Dusters and Anthrax Meme (12:32) ===

[01:05:12]  Yeah.
[01:05:12]  They basically, I mean, they were calling him like sex crazed.
[01:05:16]  They were posting like he, like the media, Lion fake news media was like portraying him as they found like weird message boards that he had commented on that were maybe like quasi.
[01:05:30]  You know well, here's the thing is like with Ivins, is it's if?
[01:05:35]  If you look at like the stuff that came out about Ivins after he died or even before he died I think a lot of this stuff came out it basically portrays somebody who has problems with addiction you know he was an alcoholic.
[01:05:47]  I think he was trying to get sober uh, who you know has snapped at a few people in the past, but like I didn't see.
[01:05:54]  I mean all of the stuff like where it really seemed like he was a psycho were basically all aspersions.
[01:05:59]  None of Was like actual eyewitness accounts or anything.
[01:06:01]  It was all people being like, well, I think he might have done this one weird thing to my house or something like that.
[01:06:06]  And just like, oh, he's into like kind of weird sex stuff.
[01:06:09]  But like, if you like, if you described any of us this way, like if somebody, if the FBI took a good look at anybody's life, unless you have lived the most boring, like, like, not even though, even boring people do weird shit sometimes.
[01:06:25]  Like, all of us are insane.
[01:06:26]  And if all this stuff is laid out, well, of course, you can start being like, well, you know, like, for me instance, like, Bro Brace, you know, he was a drug addict for a while.
[01:06:34]  That's a pretty easy, you know, and like all that kind of stuff.
[01:06:38]  It makes me really suspicious that all this stuff was just like blasted out.
[01:06:42]  And if you Google this guy, that's mostly what you get.
[01:06:45]  Yeah.
[01:06:46]  And I mean, the fact of the matter was the NAS, National Academy of Sciences, did a study of what the FBI's investigation consisted of.
[01:06:57]  And basically, none of the evidence really holds up.
[01:06:59]  It's not at all clear that it was Ivan's.
[01:07:02]  And also, you know, this anthrax could not have been made in somebody's basement, right?
[01:07:08]  No, no, no.
[01:07:09]  It requires very complicated technical processes that require extremely skilled people.
[01:07:14]  And it probably could not have been done by a single person.
[01:07:17]  But also, it had been weaponized for air transfer, which requires like crazy machines.
[01:07:25]  And I think it's like electrostatic charges that have to be like the powder, like it has to be charged in order for it to be diffused through the air.
[01:07:37]  This is not like being cooked up in a basement.
[01:07:39]  This is not shake and bait for my little shake and bake anthrax.
[01:07:45]  No, this is the good shit.
[01:07:46]  And yeah, Francis Boyle, who is a fish scale.
[01:07:50]  He's the guy that wrote some of the biological weapons legislation and helped with the ban.
[01:07:57]  Yeah, he looked at the data about this and concluded that basically this was exactly the kind of state-sponsored, in particular CIA-sponsored bioweapon that his legislation was intended to stop.
[01:08:11]  And all of Ivan's co-workers saw him every day.
[01:08:15]  I mean, they all testified that he just, there's no way he could have done this.
[01:08:18]  He's like a health food, like, he's a health food guy.
[01:08:22]  He wore fucking bell bottoms for God, which I know, I know people are going to say Charles Manson did too, but I mean, that was also the CIA.
[01:08:29]  To be clear, I mean, this guy did work for the Defense Department.
[01:08:32]  Yeah.
[01:08:33]  And he probably did work on bioweapons.
[01:08:36]  I mean, yeah, it was literally anthrax.
[01:08:38]  It is a weaponized form of anthrax he was working with, like for his job.
[01:08:43]  Right, right.
[01:08:44]  And obviously they can't talk because it's theoretically illegal.
[01:08:47]  But he probably did, but it almost certainly was not him or not him alone.
[01:08:52]  You know, it's possible that these guys could have been involved at some point, and they were made to they were sort of made the scapegoat for all of it.
[01:08:58]  Um, but they definitely did not do it alone, uh, and there's no way they could have done it without being noticed.
[01:09:04]  Um, it's a, I mean, when you think about it, it is it's fucking scary that the CIA has a stockpile of weaponized anthrax that they are willing to use to achieve uh their political ends.
[01:09:17]  Because obviously, the end result of this was um that Dashel and Leahy, who were in a position to potentially at least slow the passage of the Patriot Act or to give people in Congress, people in the media more time to read it, find out what was in it.
[01:09:32]  Um, and it, you know, it passed extremely quickly.
[01:09:35]  Yeah, by their own admission, many people in Congress did not know what they were voting for.
[01:09:40]  Yeah, just really quickly, I want to just lay out the timeline here.
[01:09:44]  So, about a week after September 11th, on September 18th, was the first anthrax mailer, if we can call it that.
[01:09:53]  And that one went to journalists.
[01:09:55]  Yeah.
[01:09:55]  And I think it killed a what was that?
[01:09:59]  Fucking it was, it's like a tabloid journalist.
[01:10:03]  It was from the Sun, actually.
[01:10:04]  Yeah.
[01:10:05]  A newspaper in Florida, tabloid in Florida.
[01:10:07]  It was like some very strange targets.
[01:10:11]  It didn't really make any sense.
[01:10:12]  I mean, they worked their way up to more high-profile ones at like the major news networks and stuff.
[01:10:17]  But the first one, yeah, I found it very odd.
[01:10:19]  Like, why would you send it to this guy?
[01:10:22]  Well, I actually have an interesting theory about Stevens.
[01:10:26]  So, this guy is Robert Stevens.
[01:10:27]  Yes.
[01:10:27]  He worked for The Sun.
[01:10:30]  The editor of The Sun was this guy whose last name was Irish.
[01:10:34]  I don't remember his first name, but his wife, Gloria Irish, was a real estate agent in Florida.
[01:10:40]  And she rented apartments to the 9-11 hygiene.
[01:10:45]  Get the fuck out of here.
[01:10:47]  No, this conversation is over.
[01:10:50]  Yeah.
[01:10:50]  So, you know.
[01:10:52]  Oh, my God.
[01:10:53]  Jesus fucking Christ.
[01:10:56]  So I think that, I mean, and maybe we could talk more about this in a little bit, but I have to go through the timeline.
[01:11:01]  But I think a big part of this was, you know, they initially blamed these attacks on Al-Qaeda and on Iraq.
[01:11:09]  You know, our favorite Judith Butler.
[01:11:12]  Yeah, we got Judith Miller.
[01:11:14]  Judith Miller.
[01:11:15]  I'm sorry.
[01:11:15]  Well, we can talk about Judith Butler too.
[01:11:17]  I hate her.
[01:11:17]  No, I'm just scared.
[01:11:18]  We can't talk about Judith Butler.
[01:11:19]  No, we do.
[01:11:20]  We hate Judith Butler.
[01:11:21]  Judith Butler today came out and was like, socialists are fucking sexist.
[01:11:27]  Yeah, for a different podcast.
[01:11:29]  Yeah.
[01:11:30]  And she's right.
[01:11:30]  Yeah, don't get me started on Judith Butler.
[01:11:33]  But yeah, Dame Judy Miller, she was writing a, she wrote a whole book that came out not long before she herself was hit with a hoax letter that didn't have anthrax, but was a hoax anthrax letter.
[01:11:47]  Yes.
[01:11:47]  She came up with this book about Iraq's anthrax program.
[01:11:51]  And actually, I think the week before 9-11, she wrote this New York Times article about this Operation Bacchus that the CIA was doing.
[01:12:02]  Or not the CIA, I think it was the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, which is theoretically the agency that's supposed to, quote unquote, protect America from bioweapons.
[01:12:09]  In reality, they just make bioweapons.
[01:12:11]  But they had simulated, I'm making enormous air quotes, how somebody in a cave theoretically could make weaponized anthrax.
[01:12:20]  And this story came out literally a week.
[01:12:22]  Yeah, September 4th, 9-11.
[01:12:24]  2001, cover of the New York Times.
[01:12:27]  Yeah.
[01:12:28]  And so I think very clearly they were trying to sow the seeds of this narrative that Al-Qaeda was responsible for these anthrax attacks.
[01:12:38]  There are other things that they didn't do that they also seem to have laid the groundwork for.
[01:12:45]  There was all this talk in the media about crop dusters potentially being used for anthrax.
[01:12:49]  Right.
[01:12:49]  I remember that.
[01:12:50]  And there was this whole, there was a story about this woman who worked at a Department of Agriculture loan office.
[01:12:58]  Basically, if you're a farmer, you can't get a commercial loan.
[01:13:00]  You go to this office and they'll give you a loan because America loves farmers.
[01:13:04]  And apparently, Muhammad Ado went there and asked her for a loan to buy a plane, which he said he was going to convert into a crop duster.
[01:13:14]  And he then made these bizarre threats towards her.
[01:13:18]  He asked for this aerial photo that she had behind her desk of Washington, D.C.
[01:13:22]  He said he'd never seen as good a photo of Washington, D.C. from the air as that.
[01:13:28]  I think that they were potentially going to do this and they wanted to lay the groundwork for here's this witness who saw this thing, had his interaction with Muhammad Atta or potentially a double of him or whatever.
[01:13:38]  And that would kind of help to build this narrative that Al-Qaeda and Iraq had attacked the United States with anthrax.
[01:13:44]  Well, there was a huge freak out, like a public freak out over crop dusters after this came out.
[01:13:51]  And I remember at one point they were like, we got to ground all crop dusters.
[01:13:54]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:13:55]  They gave the FAA advisement and they told people at like general aviation airports where these planes might be to be on the lookout for suspicious people.
[01:14:04]  Like they really wanted to drive this narrative that crop dusters might be used to drop anthrax.
[01:14:09]  And there were so many, you mentioned earlier that Judith Miller got a hoax letter.
[01:14:13]  And I think that should be, we should dwell on that for a second because hoax letters, way more than actual, I mean, by a magnitude of like a million, went out all the time.
[01:14:23]  There was something like 72 in one day in New York City of not just hoax letters, but suspicious packages.
[01:14:31]  I mean, it really, it paralyzed the banking, or not the banking, excuse me, the postal system.
[01:14:37]  And it really, it did work to some degree of like freaking a lot of people out.
[01:14:41]  Totally.
[01:14:42]  Yeah.
[01:14:42]  And Gray McQueen, one of the things he does that's great is he goes through what the headlines were.
[01:14:47]  And the word panic comes up all the time in all these stories.
[01:14:50]  And it seems like that's what the media is trying to create is this sense of panic around the task.
[01:14:55]  Yeah, I mean, that's, that's one thing that's like, as you know, on this show, we are not fond of the Lion News media.
[01:15:05]  Except if you listen to this show, you're cool.
[01:15:08]  Some of you.
[01:15:10]  But it's like, it can't be like the media, writ large is evil.
[01:15:17]  Writ small is also often evil.
[01:15:21]  Because it's like these are propaganda.
[01:15:23]  I mean, whether they're doing it intentionally or unintentionally.
[01:15:26]  Usually unintentionally.
[01:15:27]  Yeah, I think a lot of the time, yes.
[01:15:29]  Although in the case of Judith Miller, I don't know.
[01:15:31]  Oh, yeah, we should have.
[01:15:31]  She's definitely a spook.
[01:15:33]  Yeah, she's a spook.
[01:15:33]  She's fully a spook.
[01:15:34]  Super, I want to be clear.
[01:15:36]  I really regret my relationship with her.
[01:15:37]  Oh, my God.
[01:15:38]  We ended it about, we ended it 18 years ago.
[01:15:42]  Well, 19 years ago, 18 years and a few months ago.
[01:15:45]  Yeah.
[01:15:47]  But yeah, it is, it is, it is, I mean, yeah, I mean, anthrax especially, I mean, if you, you might have thought, it seemed like it was going to come through every fucking mail slot in America.
[01:15:57]  Yeah.
[01:15:58]  Absolutely.
[01:16:00]  I mean, I remember people literally talking about buying duct tape and getting that, like getting plastic sheeting to put over their windows.
[01:16:09]  I mean, people I knew literally were talking about doing that.
[01:16:11]  Yeah, that was like a huge, remember the boxes that they were selling?
[01:16:14]  Like all these cottage industries kind of like popped up where they were like, okay, here's the box with plastic sheeting and duct tape and all the things.
[01:16:22]  And like even, I think that like Homeland Security was pushing this stuff as well.
[01:16:28]  You know, you were supposed to duct tape your windows.
[01:16:30]  Remember all that?
[01:16:31]  Yeah.
[01:16:32]  Oh, I remember that vividly because people, a kid I went to school, his parents did it.
[01:16:37]  Yeah.
[01:16:37]  My friend Joey, I think it was Joey, his, his dad's old weed.
[01:16:41]  He would, he was kind of Jewish.
[01:16:46]  He, his parents, I believe it was them, duct taped their windows.
[01:16:49]  Or like they put the, it was like they duct taped the, I think it was, yeah, there's plastic over their windows.
[01:16:53]  Yeah, I mean, it was, yeah, panic is a good word because it was really an insane time.
[01:16:57]  And that's why I have a little, like, not a lot of patience for like the time that we're living in right now.
[01:17:01]  Remember fucking dirty bombs?
[01:17:03]  Yeah, all that stuff.
[01:17:05]  I mean, it's, it's, it seemed, there were so many stories and sort of explainers about dirty bombs and how it was so easy and how at any point, I mean, to this day, there's never been a dirty bomb attack, I think, anywhere in the world.
[01:17:20]  Yeah.
[01:17:21]  Like of any kind, like even like a little dirty bomb.
[01:17:24]  But they still like, I mean, they have them in video games and stuff still.
[01:17:27]  It's like there, it is, it is like, it's a meme, essentially, that was pushed for a reason.
[01:17:34]  But yeah, really quickly, just to get back on that time, because I just want to stress this point, which is kind of what I was talking about earlier, that so you get the first mailing like a week after September 11th, September 18th.

=== Sweeping Patriot Act Protections (02:32) ===

[01:17:45]  And then basically, like what's happening in Congress right now is that the Bush administration has proposed the Patriot Act.
[01:17:54]  And, you know, it's incredibly sweeping.
[01:17:59]  There are, you know, it really, you mentioned that it was like pretty contentious, but like Congress was actually really iffy about it from the beginning.
[01:18:09]  And it was like really debated and they really were not.
[01:18:13]  Ready to pass it at all because of how I mean I mean it was it's complete.
[01:18:20]  The way the Patriot Act is written like just to like it's this really complicated.
[01:18:25]  But the way the Patriot Act is written is basically like you can't even like read it.
[01:18:29]  I know that sounds crazy, but it's like not just like a document you can read that lays out exactly what it's doing, but basically a series of like ongoing justifications for broader expansions of power that aren't really defined, if that makes sense.
[01:18:49]  Yeah, I mean, it's the same way that Cog was like.
[01:18:51]  It's yeah you, you say, under these circumstances the, the executive branch or whatever agency has these powers to do these things, and you just widen the definition of what that circumstance is to be wide enough to include basically anything.
[01:19:07]  And then you have the legal justice, because obviously, you know, a lot of these people are just bureaucrats who are just doing their job uh, doing what they're ordered to do by their boss, and they need a, they need some kind of bureaucratic legal justification to do this uh, which is why people were writing memos justifying torture, but lots of other things and just this kind of sweeping surveillance in general and all the other things that the Patriot Act did.
[01:19:33]  Yeah, I mean, it's sort of hard to define exactly like everything it did, but I just want to like impress on people this, like the Patriot Act is like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages yeah, and it like constantly wrote it really quickly.
[01:19:44]  Yeah yes, they it's like constantly referencing like previous law.
[01:19:51]  Like there's no way to really understand like what it's doing.
[01:19:56]  Like if you're in congress or whatever and you're like okay, what am I?
[01:19:58]  I'm trying to figure this out.
[01:20:00]  Yeah, like it's gonna take you a really long time and with the help of a lot of aides I was about to say what they usually do is they have aides sort of summarize these things for me, for them, or like make you know legislative, Legislative aids.
[01:20:09]  That's great.
[01:20:10]  But there's like not really a way to do that without then being like, well, what do the fees, what are the feists the courts allowed to do?
[01:20:17]  But no one can really tell.

=== Patriot Act References (12:53) ===

[01:20:18]  You know what I mean?
[01:20:18]  Like it's, it's so sweeping in its legal justifications for, like you said, you know, expansion of surveillance, which had already been expanded in the 70s, but this was like much, much broader.
[01:20:32]  Yeah, this legalized a lot of things.
[01:20:35]  Yeah.
[01:20:36]  They didn't have to hide in the shadow.
[01:20:38]  They were able to come out of the closet of torture.
[01:20:41]  Yeah.
[01:20:41]  So this was like very, this was a big deal.
[01:20:44]  And Congress was like not on board.
[01:20:47]  No.
[01:20:47]  Like not even the Republicans.
[01:20:49]  No.
[01:20:51]  So there was like a lot of dissent.
[01:20:52]  And then on October 9th, so the first attack, the first anthrax attack is September 18th.
[01:21:00]  The second anthrax attack, which is the one that goes to Dashel and Leahy, is that's on October 9th.
[01:21:10]  And that's the one that basically like cuts everything, like everything goes into hyper speed.
[01:21:14]  Like, oh no, now Congress is being attacked.
[01:21:17]  This is Israel.
[01:21:17]  It's Al-Qaeda.
[01:21:19]  We got to like pass, pass, pass.
[01:21:21]  And like literally, the Patriot Act is passed on October 25th.
[01:21:25]  Did we mention the notes that accompanied these?
[01:21:28]  No, I don't think we did.
[01:21:30]  Well, to read one, it says, oh, at the top, it says 09-11-01.
[01:21:36]  So it's like 9-11.
[01:21:38]  This is next.
[01:21:39]  Take penicillin, penicillin's misspelled.
[01:21:42]  Now, death to America, death to Israel.
[01:21:45]  Allah is great.
[01:21:47]  Yeah.
[01:21:47]  In like time's word.
[01:21:49]  It's like that guy standing with his flag over somebody spray-painted black's rule.
[01:21:55]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:21:57]  On his like sidewalk.
[01:21:58]  I mean, it's, I don't know, it's like if it's meant to look fake.
[01:22:02]  Like, that's how bad it looks.
[01:22:04]  It's like, I encourage listeners of the show, I know you have trouble reading.
[01:22:08]  I encourage you to Google an image of this and you can just see how bad the handwriting is.
[01:22:12]  It's just, it's not serious.
[01:22:14]  And of course, the notes were photocopied, so there was no way to test for evidence.
[01:22:20]  So the issue, the funny thing about the Israel sort of being mentioned in these letters is that there's that bin Laden mentioned Israel as well as like a big justification for 9-11.
[01:22:31]  And I mean, is you know, the six-day war and a lot of the sort of regional conflict with Israel and the loss of the Arab nationalist regimes, excuse me, governments, did lead to the rise of organizations like Al-Qaeda.
[01:22:46]  But like, they don't care about Israel-Palestine.
[01:22:49]  Like, ISIS doesn't like attack Israel.
[01:22:52]  Right.
[01:22:53]  Al-Qaeda doesn't like set off bombs in Israel.
[01:22:56]  And it just lays bare.
[01:22:57]  Like, I mean, it has nothing to do with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
[01:23:02]  Like, Al-Qaeda do not have real contacts with Hamas.
[01:23:06]  And they did try to pin Al-Qaeda and Hezbollah as being friends.
[01:23:11]  In fact, in the 9-11 Commission report in Iraq, which is, they're still trying to do that.
[01:23:17]  And in the 9-11 Commission report, they're like, well, it looks like Hezbollah actually trained some of the hijackers, which is exceedingly unlikely.
[01:23:28]  Yeah, it's very dubious.
[01:23:29]  Yeah.
[01:23:30]  Yeah, there's no way.
[01:23:31]  Well, they're currently engaged in a like decade-long war in Syria, Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda.
[01:23:39]  So I guess they had a falling out.
[01:23:40]  I don't know.
[01:23:41]  It seems like they had something so good going.
[01:23:44]  And of course, Hezbollah has always denied involved.
[01:23:47]  It doesn't seem, yeah, it's obviously bullshit.
[01:23:50]  Yeah.
[01:23:51]  But with these anthrax letters, it's like, this is the barest of fig leaves.
[01:23:56]  Yeah.
[01:23:57]  Yeah.
[01:23:57]  I just want to quote really quickly from new friend of the pod, Glenn Greenwald, which is, if you're listening, Glenn, hello.
[01:24:07]  Big fans.
[01:24:09]  But this is from a piece he wrote in Salon in 2008.
[01:24:11]  And I just, I think it's like a great way to kind of sum up like why the anthrax attacks are so important.
[01:24:18]  But he writes, after 9-11 itself, the anthrax attacks were probably the most consequential event of the Bush presidency.
[01:24:25]  One could make a persuasive case that they were actually more consequential.
[01:24:28]  And I think you could make that case.
[01:24:31]  The 9-11 attacks were obviously traumatic for the country.
[01:24:33]  But in the absence of the anthrax attacks, 9-11 could easily have been perceived as a single isolated event.
[01:24:39]  It was really the anthrax letters with the first one sent on September 18th, just one week after 9-11, that severely ratcheted up the fear levels and created the climate that would dominate in this country for the next several years after.
[01:24:51]  I would argue for like 20 years after.
[01:24:54]  I mean, we're still.
[01:24:56]  But I think, yeah, I think like people need to understand that anthrax attacks and September 11th are like the same story.
[01:25:02]  Inseparable.
[01:25:03]  Oh, yeah.
[01:25:03]  And they're the same.
[01:25:04]  I think they're the same operation.
[01:25:05]  Absolutely.
[01:25:06]  100%.
[01:25:07]  I mean, it was ready.
[01:25:08]  I mean, I guess that guy had, what, eight days?
[01:25:11]  You know, it's insane.
[01:25:12]  It's like Bruce Ivins decided in the eight days after 9-11, or less than that, I guess, considering mail times, like four days after, six days after, to start this like mass terror campaign.
[01:25:26]  It's too bad that he killed himself before we can find all this out.
[01:25:31]  I mean, it is crazy making.
[01:25:33]  But it is like, you know, when you're thinking about it, you're like, okay, it makes sense.
[01:25:37]  Like, you're going to need something.
[01:25:39]  You're going to need a second event in order to like impress the urgency of the moment.
[01:25:46]  Well, it's like, it's like when you're talking to a girl, you go up to her and you say something.
[01:25:50]  But to really take it to the next level, you have to touch her shoulder and then you kiss.
[01:25:55]  And kissing was a patriot act.
[01:25:57]  The other thing too is that, I mean, there had been a bunch of like, you know, Al-Qaeda and Iraq, you know, they were trying to tie Al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein together.
[01:26:07]  What's his fucking name?
[01:26:08]  The dead motherfucker, John McCain.
[01:26:10]  Yeah, but they were trying to do that with just 9-11.
[01:26:14]  And that was like very confusing considering, you know, they were all Saudi nationals.
[01:26:20]  But like, the anthrax letters are when the media and like, you know, government officials in the media really started ratcheting up the connection between Saddam and al-Qaeda.
[01:26:33]  Yep.
[01:26:34]  And like, that's when it started becoming clear that, you know, it would take two years, but that like, you know, the invasion of Iraq was going to happen and, you know, we were going to, you know, Mr. Saddam.
[01:26:47]  R.I.P. Yeah.
[01:26:49]  Well, no.
[01:26:50]  I'm just saying.
[01:26:50]  I mean, he was bad.
[01:26:51]  He was.
[01:26:52]  I'm not glad he's dead, but he was not a good guy.
[01:26:57]  But yeah, they shouldn't have killed him.
[01:27:01]  Yeah.
[01:27:02]  I think it's important to stress how 9-11 changed a lot of things, but not in kind of the way people think.
[01:27:13]  It killed.
[01:27:13]  That's just the death of irony, right?
[01:27:15]  Yeah.
[01:27:16]  What are you talking about?
[01:27:17]  It set off a chain reaction that led to the resurgence of.
[01:27:21]  Now everything's ironic.
[01:27:23]  But that was the thing.
[01:27:24]  feel like it was like was it like David Rudnick or some dude comedy was so fucking coming still so it It was like in the New Yorker Vanity Fair or something.
[01:27:33]  And they were like, 9-11.
[01:27:34]  like irony is now dead or something 9 11 american like culture was some of the most oh my god who's the worst i I admire the cultural revolution in China for politicizing the populace in a way that had never been done before for such a noble cause.
[01:27:51]  But the only thing I can compare it, that's the only thing I can really compare post-9-11 America to.
[01:27:58]  Because everyone just went fucking insane.
[01:28:02]  Don't forget this is when DOD made it mandatory that the military be involved in every sports event.
[01:28:08]  Yeah.
[01:28:09]  Oh, yeah.
[01:28:09]  It's just, I mean, it was became the total.
[01:28:11]  I mean, people really understand what America became.
[01:28:15]  It's just, because it's just, we're used to it now.
[01:28:17]  Yeah.
[01:28:17]  Like, this is just like, this is the new normal, Liz.
[01:28:20]  A phrase that's.
[01:28:21]  I mean, it really does make MAGA stuff look like pale in comparison in my mind.
[01:28:26]  I guess it's a descendant of 9-11.
[01:28:30]  That's the thing is, like, when, when, I think a lot of people, maybe even younger people, are kind of confused why like we get so mad when people cheer on George Bush now, when liberals are like, I despise like all liberals, but like, you know, sort of the rehabilitation of George Bush as this like this, like the friendly guy.
[01:28:53]  He's like, he's, you know, he's like our simple cousin who he's been on the farm for a while.
[01:28:59]  And aren't you glad to see him?
[01:29:00]  Now he's a painter.
[01:29:01]  Isn't he so funny?
[01:29:02]  Exactly.
[01:29:03]  But it's like, dude, he did 9-11.
[01:29:07]  Like, it's not a meme.
[01:29:08]  It's not a joke.
[01:29:09]  Like, these people did it.
[01:29:10]  Yeah.
[01:29:11]  And it really did.
[01:29:13]  Rick Perlstein wrote an article right after 9-11 about the left, about the American left.
[01:29:18]  And there's some funny people like Adolph Radis cited in it, Doug Henwood.
[01:29:23]  And even those people were caught up in this.
[01:29:27]  Like, it really affected everybody.
[01:29:30]  You know, I guess Ward Churchill was really the only person who was famous.
[01:29:35]  Well, we unfortunately got to wrap up.
[01:29:37]  Okay.
[01:29:39]  But.
[01:29:40]  We're going to have to do this again sometime.
[01:29:42]  Yeah.
[01:29:42]  I'm sorry.
[01:29:42]  This is.
[01:29:43]  Yeah.
[01:29:44]  It's the thing is with 9-11 is once you start looking into it, is my God, you could spend the rest of your life on this event.
[01:29:52]  And it's interesting just how sort of in the mainstream media discredited 9-11 theory, like truthers is.
[01:30:02]  It's a joke.
[01:30:02]  And, you know, I'll tell you what.
[01:30:04]  It's funny.
[01:30:04]  They're doing a good job of doing that.
[01:30:06]  Immediately after 9-11, I was like, this is bullshit.
[01:30:09]  And for many years afterwards, this is bullshit.
[01:30:11]  And eventually I was just like, I don't fucking care.
[01:30:14]  Like, it's annoying, you know, blah, blah, blah.
[01:30:17]  And then I got back and I'm like, this is, I hate these people.
[01:30:22]  Like, they did this.
[01:30:23]  And it's like, I think a lot of people just write it off.
[01:30:25]  Like, well, I know that there was something funny about 9-11, but every time I look at it, it's so complicated that I don't know how to explain that.
[01:30:34]  And it's the classic thing that if you mentioned, you're a wing nut.
[01:30:40]  And like, it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's fucking insane.
[01:30:44]  I mean, I have a, you know, I'm a very amateur person at all this.
[01:30:48]  I have a lot of respect for people like Fenton, for example, who literally make it their life to research this stuff.
[01:30:54]  And it, it is, I mean, this is a great example just of how these conspiracies are kept away from people.
[01:31:01]  It is extremely confusing.
[01:31:03]  And the press basically just lied about it and didn't cover any of the important things that they needed to.
[01:31:10]  And eventually people just, it happened in the past.
[01:31:13]  The things that the people who did it needed to make happen, such as invading Iraq, passing all this legislation, changing the way the American government worked, they got that stuff done.
[01:31:23]  And so it doesn't really matter at this point.
[01:31:26]  Those people are mostly retired.
[01:31:28]  And the very few people who still give a shit are mostly reviled and insulted.
[01:31:35]  Yeah.
[01:31:35]  And it's, I mean, the whole concept basically of like calling things conspiracy theories is itself like a psyop right to discredit things.
[01:31:45]  But like it really is.
[01:31:48]  And yeah, I don't know.
[01:31:49]  It's, it's just to listeners out there, you are not insane for thinking this.
[01:31:54]  No, you've got friends with us here at True Nine.
[01:31:57]  Like, Ben's normal.
[01:31:58]  Yeah, listen to him.
[01:31:59]  Listen to how normal he sounds.
[01:32:01]  I'm just a regular guy.
[01:32:03]  Exactly.
[01:32:04]  And like, you regular guys just listening to this and regular gals and everybody else, you can believe this.
[01:32:12]  Like, it's not weird to believe this stuff.
[01:32:14]  And actually, if you are, if you come across to your friends as like a normal person and you talk about this stuff, they will think it's normal.
[01:32:22]  Like, that's been my experience talking about stuff like this, especially since the Epstein stuff has come out.
[01:32:26]  I think people are willing to engage with this a little bit more.
[01:32:31]  And I do think it's important.
[01:32:33]  I mean, I think having, I think like the two sides of understanding how this whole imperial system works, right?
[01:32:39]  Like understanding the political theory side of it, you know, the immortal science of Marxism-Leninism.
[01:32:45]  And then the other side is like, how do these conspiracies, how do these ruling elites actually carry out this policy?
[01:32:52]  How do they actuate this stuff to make this money flow around the way that it needs to so that enough people make the profits they need to?
[01:33:01]  Absolutely.
[01:33:02]  Well put.
[01:33:03]  Well, Ben, I'll let you go back to your normal, beautiful life while I scurry off to my gutter that I live in.

=== Why People Engage With Borat (03:29) ===

[01:33:11]  And Liz goes, I don't know, I don't know where she goes after these things.
[01:33:15]  She doesn't seem to have a home.
[01:33:17]  She wanders the streets in a long black veil.
[01:33:21]  And a tinfoil hat.
[01:33:23]  But thank you so much for joining us.
[01:33:25]  We will have, dear listeners, a part.
[01:33:27]  It's going to take us longer to prepare for, but we are going to have a part three of, this is Seth Abramson style threading.
[01:33:35]  We don't know when it's going to end.
[01:33:36]  We have no idea.
[01:33:37]  There's too much to cover.
[01:33:39]  There's way too much.
[01:33:39]  Sorry, you didn't want us to do this.
[01:33:41]  Shouldn't have done 9-11.
[01:33:43]  That's right.
[01:33:44]  This all could have been avoided.
[01:33:46]  All right.
[01:33:47]  Thank you and good night.
[01:33:48]  Thank you.
[01:34:09]  Oh, man.
[01:34:11]  Boo Yakasha.
[01:34:13]  Remember that?
[01:34:13]  That was pretty funny when you did that.
[01:34:15]  You know, that's the 9-11 era thing.
[01:34:18]  That's true.
[01:34:18]  I guess I'll say LEG was 9-11 comedy that was funny.
[01:34:22]  You know, it was funny.
[01:34:24]  Yeah, absolutely.
[01:34:25]  He only, like, he only, after, post-Borat, he sucks.
[01:34:29]  And I guess he's like...
[01:34:30]  Borat was funny.
[01:34:31]  Yeah, I said post-Borat.
[01:34:33]  No, I know.
[01:34:33]  I'm just, I'm just saying for myself.
[01:34:35]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:34:35]  Okay.
[01:34:35]  Yeah.
[01:34:36]  Oh, great.
[01:34:36]  Yeah.
[01:34:37]  Woman discovers Borat's funny.
[01:34:38]  This is bullshit.
[01:34:39]  I don't get any credit for saying Borat's funny because of the new feminist era.
[01:34:43]  I'm just kidding.
[01:34:44]  I'm doing pretend sexism.
[01:34:45]  When he happened upon a child sex ring and the FBI was like, whoops, no thanks.
[01:34:51]  Yeah, why does he come on the podcast?
[01:34:53]  Because of that, I don't think he would come on.
[01:34:57]  He's probably too tall, too.
[01:34:58]  I don't like it.
[01:34:59]  He's also very much like, I'm an actor now.
[01:35:02]  Like, he's all in movies where he's a real thing and not like his comedy person.
[01:35:07]  Really?
[01:35:07]  I kind of get that vibe.
[01:35:09]  Yeah, he should have.
[01:35:09]  They all want to go on this serious turn to get the rewards.
[01:35:13]  He's just a Jewish David Spade.
[01:35:15]  He's just a, he's a.
[01:35:17]  I don't think that's true.
[01:35:18]  I do think that's true.
[01:35:20]  Well, I know you said that.
[01:35:21]  Yeah.
[01:35:22]  I just, yeah, yeah, I guess.
[01:35:24]  Touche.
[01:35:25]  Thank you for being such an asshole.
[01:35:30]  I just nervously giggled there because I was so, I don't like you.
[01:35:35]  That's not, Brace.
[01:35:36]  Don't say things like that.
[01:35:37]  I'm sorry.
[01:35:37]  I love you.
[01:35:38]  Thank you.
[01:35:39]  Oh, I love you too, Brace.
[01:35:40]  I would love to love you to death forever.
[01:35:45]  Of yours.
[01:35:46]  Well, that's not nice.
[01:35:47]  Grave.
[01:35:48]  Brace.
[01:35:48]  Yard.
[01:35:49]  But it's a shitty one where people pee and play dice.
[01:35:54]  What the fuck is wrong with you, man?
[01:35:57]  I have lots wrong with me.
[01:36:02]  Oh, God.
[01:36:03]  Thank you for talking to us about 9-11, everybody.
[01:36:07]  Listen, I've had a long day.
[01:36:08]  I got to go speak at an A meeting after this.
[01:36:10]  Liz has been staring daggers at me for the past four hours.
[01:36:14]  That's not true.
[01:36:15]  Yeah, it's been.
[01:36:15]  Yeah, it's true.
[01:36:16]  All right.
[01:36:17]  Get us out of here.
[01:36:18]  Okay.
[01:36:18]  Well, I was waiting for you to start getting us out of here.
[01:36:20]  See, this is what I'm saying.
[01:36:21]  I always got to get us out of here.
[01:36:23]  I always got to get us in here.
[01:36:24]  This is not.
[01:36:25]  No, no, no.
[01:36:26]  This ends.
[01:36:27]  Next episode.
[01:36:27]  I'm silent.
[01:36:29]  My name, my name is.
[01:36:32]  My name might as well be dirt to some people around here.
[01:36:35]  But in reality, in the world where people respect me, my name is Brace, and I'm proud of that.

=== Get Us Out Of Here (01:14) ===

[01:36:40]  And nobody can take that away from me.
[01:36:42]  No one else has named that.
[01:36:43]  It's a it's all right.
[01:36:45]  What about Brace Jones?
[01:36:47]  No, no, no.
[01:36:48]  Who's Brace Jones?
[01:36:49]  Everyone knows Brace Jones.
[01:36:51]  I think one guy from the band, I might have mentioned this before, a guy from the band The Gossip, which is a dog shit band from Portland.
[01:36:57]  Is that that weird like dance?
[01:36:59]  It's like dance punk or something.
[01:37:01]  Ditto.
[01:37:02]  Oh my God, that band is so bad.
[01:37:04]  Speaking of Ditto, there's a fucking guy in that band with the same name as me.
[01:37:08]  Little name Ditto right there.
[01:37:10]  Here's what?
[01:37:11]  I think you're a dodo.
[01:37:13]  That was cute.
[01:37:14]  Yeah, thank you.
[01:37:15]  So fuck you, Brace.
[01:37:17]  I hope you don't listen to this.
[01:37:20]  And I'm joined by.
[01:37:22]  I'm Liz.
[01:37:23]  And of course, our faithful friend and guy who used to play in the gossip, Young Chomsky.
[01:37:32]  Liz, play us out.
[01:37:34]  Bye-bye.
[01:37:49]  Jeff's got shooting.
[01:37:51]  Just Geoffrey Exeter.
[01:37:53]  Come out.
[01:37:54]  Come on.