True Anon Truth Feed - Episode 80: Ghislaine Goes Down
Aired: 2020-07-03
Duration: 01:07:40


=== Super Excited About This Episode (14:26) ===

[00:00:00]  We got a smoking episode for you guys today.
[00:00:03]  Yeah, this is.
[00:00:03]  I'm super excited about this.
[00:00:05]  Yeah, we've been working on this one for, gosh, now, a couple months, I think.
[00:00:10]  Yeah, pretty much straight.
[00:00:11]  All my free time.
[00:00:12]  Doing a lot of research, and I know that everyone has been waiting for this very special episode and for us to really kind of tackle what's going on and give people kind of, you know, a way to process everything that's going on.
[00:00:34]  And, you know, whatever.
[00:00:37]  Let's just get into it.
[00:00:38]  So we're talking about cancel culture.
[00:00:40]  Yeah.
[00:00:41]  And, you know, obviously, like, this has been like a topic for kind of a while, but like, I don't think anyone's really covered it critically from the left, which we definitely plan on doing.
[00:00:51]  But like, it's not just that.
[00:00:53]  Like, we actually, like, everyone's affected by this.
[00:00:56]  So we have like a lot of guests today.
[00:00:58]  It's kind of a first for us, right?
[00:01:00]  Yeah.
[00:01:00]  Yeah.
[00:01:00]  It's like a roundtable discussion.
[00:01:03]  All sides.
[00:01:04]  That was really like something that we really wanted to do is like have just like a wide variety of voices here to kind of get down it and really like debate the issues of the day.
[00:01:17]  Yeah.
[00:01:18]  Yeah.
[00:01:18]  And like what's behind them because that's the thing is like there's no really media out there that tells you not just the news, but like also what's behind the news.
[00:01:28]  Yes.
[00:01:28]  So we've, it's like who we got, baby.
[00:01:30]  We've got Yasha Monk, I think is on is on the line waiting.
[00:01:35]  Yep, he is.
[00:01:37]  And we're excited to talk to him.
[00:01:38]  Always excited to talk to him.
[00:01:39]  He has so much to offer pretty much any and all conversations.
[00:01:45]  And it's surprising how prescient all of his tapes are.
[00:01:50]  You know, it's like everything that he said really is always on the money.
[00:01:54]  So we're really excited to have him on.
[00:01:57]  We have, just to sort of round it out, we have Michael Barbadoro with us, a fellow podcaster, and a woman as well, I believe Claire something?
[00:02:08]  Yes, Claire Lehman.
[00:02:09]  Claire Lehman from either Lehman Brothers or Quillette.
[00:02:13]  Not quite sure, but one of those.
[00:02:15]  I can't keep it going.
[00:02:16]  What are we doing?
[00:02:17]  We're talking Ghillain Maxwell was just arrested.
[00:02:24]  Emergency episode, baby.
[00:02:26]  Let's get this show on the road.
[00:02:52]  Liz.
[00:02:54]  Welcome.
[00:02:55]  Welcome to the prison zone.
[00:02:58]  I'll tell you what.
[00:02:59]  All these people, they're like, oh, we should destroy prisons.
[00:03:01]  I hate the police.
[00:03:03]  Little quiet now, aren't you?
[00:03:06]  Well, there was the free Ghillaine movement, but I'm putting my foot down on that before it even begins.
[00:03:12]  Oh my God.
[00:03:14]  Everyone, welcome, Truan.
[00:03:16]  I'm Liz.
[00:03:17]  I'm Brace, joined by producer Young Chomsky.
[00:03:20]  And we're trying to get this one out as quick as we can because, like we said, Blamo, asteroid hit the earth, news, bomb.
[00:03:33]  Didn't see this coming.
[00:03:35]  No.
[00:03:35]  You can't even speak in complete sentences.
[00:03:37]  I never speak in complete sentences.
[00:03:39]  But you can't this time.
[00:03:41]  No, I physically can't.
[00:03:42]  Ghillaine Maxwell, in case people haven't heard, which I really don't think is the case, has been arrested.
[00:03:50]  She's in the clink.
[00:03:51]  She has been snatched up in the night, slapped into the back of it.
[00:03:57]  Well, actually, really, the morning.
[00:03:59]  And I'm, to be completely honest with you, I don't know what kind of vehicle she was put in, but she's been arrested.
[00:04:04]  Yes.
[00:04:06]  Just this morning, it sounds like.
[00:04:08]  Around 8:30, which, by the way, I should tell you guys, is 5.30 for me.
[00:04:14]  So when I woke up this morning to take a little leak and I saw all these text messages and couldn't go back to sleep because this is, I kind of have to look at this kind of stuff.
[00:04:23]  Wasn't a big fan of that.
[00:04:24]  Feel like the FBI, if they do the press conference at 12, so we can do it at 9 here.
[00:04:28]  Feel like they can push that back because people are still working in the afternoon.
[00:04:32]  Yeah, you gotta, you know, you gotta, they gotta keep in mind they're West Coast viewers.
[00:04:36]  Exactly.
[00:04:36]  It's a ton of bullshit.
[00:04:38]  Just like the NBA.
[00:04:39]  Let's start.
[00:04:40]  Let's pause for a second and let's talk about Ghillaine Maxwell.
[00:04:50]  Like we just were.
[00:04:53]  I mean, I don't know how much we do need to get into her specifically, but in case people aren't aware of who she is and have never listened to our podcast before where we talk about Ghillaine Maxwell pretty much constantly for nearly a year now.
[00:05:10]  Ghillain is, of course, was, of course, Jeffrey Epstein's right-hand woman.
[00:05:18]  She is the daughter of one of the largest men in British history.
[00:05:23]  Her father, Robert Maxwell, who was a labor MP, a, well, a newspaper magnate and spy for the country of Israel.
[00:05:33]  He died very famously in 1991 after stealing a couple hundred million dollars from his employees, which classic move.
[00:05:42]  And then trying to blackmail the state of Israel, which also classic move.
[00:05:46]  Did not work out for him.
[00:05:48]  He was thrown into the drink and died off of his yacht.
[00:05:54]  Yeah.
[00:05:54]  He slipped and fell, aka.
[00:05:57]  Let's pushed.
[00:06:00]  But Ghillaine has now been pushed into the arms of the law.
[00:06:05]  And I want to make a quick note on some dates here.
[00:06:08]  So today is July 2nd.
[00:06:11]  And there's a couple anniversaries that we're kind of in the middle of.
[00:06:15]  The first one.
[00:06:16]  Oh, Brace, you remember.
[00:06:19]  No, not that one.
[00:06:21]  No.
[00:06:22]  No, the first one is, you know, so Ghillaine had two great loves in her life.
[00:06:27]  One of them, of course, famously, Jeffrey Epstein.
[00:06:30]  Another one, who we've done a little bit of reporting about ourselves, Count Gianfranco Chigono.
[00:06:36]  Who was the son and grandson of Italian industrialists, you know, sort of one of the members of the Chiga family, or excuse me, the Siga Chiga, I don't know how to fucking pronounce it, Hotel Clan, they always call it, a member of the Order of Malta and possibly involved in the 2004 coup in Equatorial, or attempted coup in Equatorial Guinea that was financed by Margaret Thatcher's son.
[00:07:04]  He died in a plane crash in 2012 on June 30th.
[00:07:09]  So very close to today's date.
[00:07:13]  I should say I mentioned this on Twitter.
[00:07:15]  We're talking numbers and patterns.
[00:07:19]  Ghillaine Maxwell is going through her second Saturn return.
[00:07:24]  And Saturn, of course, is the Lord, the ruler of karma.
[00:07:31]  This sounds real.
[00:07:34]  It is.
[00:07:35]  No, Saturn is moving into the position of her natal Saturn, transiting Saturn.
[00:07:41]  And that happens every 29 and a half years, give or take.
[00:07:46]  And so the second one, it's, you know, some big burdens are returning to Ghillain Maxwell's life is what I'm saying.
[00:07:56]  Well, not only that, but this is almost a year to the day from when Jeffrey Epstein was arrested.
[00:08:02]  I don't know if to the day is really the appropriate phrase to use there, but he was arrested on July 6th of last year.
[00:08:10]  I kind of wish they had waited.
[00:08:12]  It's very inelegant, right?
[00:08:14]  It is.
[00:08:15]  It's like you guys had it right there.
[00:08:16]  I have some ideas on why they didn't, which we'll get into as we kind of go through the events of the day.
[00:08:22]  But I do kind of wish they had kind of gone for the little bit of the, you know, symbolism there.
[00:08:29]  But so in sort of general, Ghillene is often talked about, although less so lately, as Jeffrey Epstein's procurer or his, you know, madam or something like that.
[00:08:40]  But we here, and other people, have tried to constantly keep the refrain of, no, she was an active, willing, and aggressive participant in addition to being one of Epstein's main procurers.
[00:08:53]  Yeah.
[00:08:54]  Abuser.
[00:08:55]  Exactly.
[00:08:56]  She's been missing for basically since Epstein was arrested.
[00:09:01]  Yeah.
[00:09:02]  Yeah.
[00:09:02]  She's been on the lamb.
[00:09:04]  We've done, I think, I think we did an episode about all the different places that she was or that she's been rumored to be.
[00:09:10]  The sun, or maybe I just did a thread on Twitter about it.
[00:09:13]  I don't know, but the sun puts out an article every month or so with always anonymous sources saying that Ghelaine Maxwell is, if I can recall sort of chronologically, being shuttled from house to house in the Midwest by retired or currently serving, rather unclear, Navy SEALs.
[00:09:31]  She is in Britain, you know, cavorting and such.
[00:09:36]  She is in France at a chateau.
[00:09:38]  She is in France at an apartment.
[00:09:40]  Or I don't know, but really what also a lot of people thought she was in Israel.
[00:09:44]  And I will say, I believe on our last episode, or maybe the episode before last, I said I thought she was in England or France.
[00:09:54]  Yeah, the Sun, much like our friends at the New York Times, loves unnamed sources.
[00:10:00]  But it sounds like no one had New Hampshire on their bingo list, which is where she was arrested.
[00:10:06]  The live-free or die state, I believe they call it.
[00:10:11]  I really don't know much about New Hampshire.
[00:10:13]  I'm not going to lie.
[00:10:14]  I have driven through there once.
[00:10:17]  Yeah, I can't recall anything except for that fact.
[00:10:22]  I don't remember what happened, or I don't even know if we stopped at all.
[00:10:25]  But I've been in the state limits.
[00:10:30]  Yeah, did not have New Hampshire on the list, but that is where she was arrested this morning.
[00:10:37]  The city of Bradford, New Hampshire, which- Liz, I think calling it a city is a little, that's a little much.
[00:10:45]  I was just trying to be generous.
[00:10:47]  I didn't want to hurt its feelings.
[00:10:49]  I think it'll be fine.
[00:10:50]  I think there's about 1,500 or like maybe a little more residents.
[00:10:53]  I think it's like 2,000 people.
[00:10:55]  Yeah.
[00:10:56]  There we go.
[00:10:58]  But it's funny because it sounds like in different reports, you know, it certainly looks like it was Bradford, but in other reports, they're saying it's Bedford.
[00:11:08]  But it's, I'm pretty sure.
[00:11:10]  Yeah.
[00:11:11]  Everyone, everyone's always confusing Bedford and Bradford, New Hampshire.
[00:11:15]  But no, it's Bradford.
[00:11:18]  To be like, I mean, fair, it's fairly, I mean, they're very close to each other.
[00:11:23]  They sound similar.
[00:11:25]  And, you know, I think a lot of news organizations kind of just like reword other news organizations' articles.
[00:11:32]  And so I can see how that mistake tumbled out.
[00:11:34]  Classic telephone.
[00:11:36]  I will say, Ghelaine Maxwell, I forgot to mention this earlier.
[00:11:40]  Her last like most likely sighting or at least like rumored location was in a little town called Manchester by the Sea, which the mayor, Casey Afflick, has had some assault allegations of his own.
[00:11:56]  But it is, she was shacked up with her young boyfriend, which respect, not that young, Scott Borgeson.
[00:12:07]  who appears to be in charge of a company that monitors satellite feeds of the ocean to see how like what ships are moving.
[00:12:17]  Cargometrics.
[00:12:18]  Cargometrics.
[00:12:19]  And someone explained it to us as something akin, not exactly, but akin to like basically like insider trading and how much information you can get out of it and how much money you can make.
[00:12:29]  Yeah, exactly.
[00:12:30]  Like it's basically a company that monitors shipping flows in order to provide like data analysis for people making stock trades.
[00:12:41]  Yeah.
[00:12:42]  And so, you know, there was also, I believe, a photo of either her sister, I can't remember, someone close to her loading up a car with luggage right after her location was sort of outed.
[00:12:53]  I think by a neighbor.
[00:12:54]  Yeah, it was by a neighbor.
[00:12:56]  A neighbor was having a dispute with Mr. Borgeson over, I believe it was a tree or a fence.
[00:13:06]  The Rand Paul assassination conspiracy.
[00:13:09]  Exactly, exactly.
[00:13:10]  All politics are local people.
[00:13:12]  I'm always saying that.
[00:13:13]  Yeah.
[00:13:14]  Also, people will never stop snitching.
[00:13:17]  Yeah.
[00:13:19]  Stop snitching is the most bullshit phrase.
[00:13:21]  All right, let's keep going.
[00:13:23]  Let's keep it going.
[00:13:24]  There's a lot to run through here.
[00:13:25]  So I will say where she was found, about an hour and a half away from Manchester by the sea.
[00:13:30]  Yeah.
[00:13:31]  So it's very odd.
[00:13:34]  So contrary to what I said just about five seconds ago, that Bradford, New Hampshire is not actually a city.
[00:13:41]  It's a very small town.
[00:13:43]  Like we said, about 2,000 people.
[00:13:44]  And Gillan really has like no known ties to this town.
[00:13:49]  It's she like it's really unclear why she would be there.
[00:13:56]  But in the detainment memorandum filed by the U.S. attorney, which we'll get into the kind of various documents that they filed in just a bit, she actually purchased through a very carefully crafted, anonymized LLC, a home, a very large home in Bradford, New Hampshire in just December of last year.
[00:14:20]  And she paid all cash.
[00:14:23]  Classic.
[00:14:23]  Baller move, they call that.

=== Rich People Buying Homes Anonymously (03:34) ===

[00:14:26]  Liz, you looked at pictures of this house, right?
[00:14:30]  Yes, you sent me the Redfin listing.
[00:14:33]  It is.
[00:14:35]  Wow.
[00:14:36]  It is.
[00:14:37]  There is a, I gotta say.
[00:14:38]  Bucolic.
[00:14:40]  Bucolic, yes.
[00:14:42]  There is a gazebo that, I gotta be honest, not a handsome one.
[00:14:47]  There is a carport, which is external to the house.
[00:14:51]  There's a whole display of gourds in this kitchen.
[00:14:54]  A lot of gourds.
[00:14:55]  I mean, presumably these were gourds that were provided by some sort of reality.
[00:15:00]  There's a lot of shallots, too.
[00:15:02]  Ghillaine, not known for her love of gourds, although not known to necessarily dislike them either.
[00:15:08]  Yeah, we got some investigating to do here.
[00:15:10]  It is, I've got to say, I would not pay $1 million for this house.
[00:15:15]  I mean, I would, I, you're going to have to take out those kitchen counters.
[00:15:20]  I mean, that is just, that granite is unsightly.
[00:15:23]  So, Liz, would you mind reading us a little description supplied for the house?
[00:15:29]  Oh boy, here we go.
[00:15:31]  Let's see.
[00:15:32]  Let me do my best real estate voice if I can.
[00:15:36]  This stunning custom-designed timber frame home is an amazing retreat for the nature lover who also wants total privacy.
[00:15:44]  From every room, there are views of Mount Cenope foothills to the west.
[00:15:48]  From the covered front porch, enter the great room with a floor-to-ceiling fieldstone fireplace, cathedral ceiling, and a spectacular chandelier.
[00:15:57]  A wall of glass frames, a stunning southwestern view beyond the stone patio.
[00:16:02]  The materials and craftsmanship are the finest.
[00:16:05]  An open concept home with first-floor master suite, large walk-in closet, fieldstone fireplace, window seat, a large master bath with soaking tub, walk-in shower, and double vanity gourmet kitchen with extensive cherry cabinetry, Viking six-burner stove, two wolf ovens, sub-zero fridge, and a breakfast bar with extensive counter space.
[00:16:25]  Two walls of windows look out over the massive perennial gardens and waterfall.
[00:16:31]  A cozy den, large dining area, wonderful laundry room and mudroom, partially finished basement, guest room suite, and loft office guest room complete the floor plan.
[00:16:41]  Radiant heat throughout the main floor and on-demand whole house generator and AC.
[00:16:46]  Attached two-bay garage with storage.
[00:16:48]  A charming, fully restored two-bedroom antique cape with a fabulous barn for square dances and ho-downs.
[00:16:54]  A four-bay equipment barn with workshop on 156 acres of fields and forests.
[00:17:01]  This is an outdoor lover's dream home.
[00:17:05]  This is an ugly piece of shithouse.
[00:17:09]  I didn't know Ghillane was an outdoor lover's dream.
[00:17:13]  Is that really one of her great loves?
[00:17:15]  Well, I think the total privacy mentioned fairly early in the description is probably more germane to her needs right now.
[00:17:26]  Yeah, she probably saw that and was like, salt.
[00:17:29]  I mean, it's a huge story.
[00:17:31]  I gotta say, there is a stone on, I believe, the driveway to the house that has the words tucked away imprinted on it.
[00:17:40]  I mean, so what we're seeing here is that Ghillain was like, fuck it.
[00:17:43]  I'm, you know, she's like every like 30-year-old who does too much Coke and hangs out at Mars Bar in New York.
[00:17:50]  When they reach like 75 years old and they're still doing that, they're like, I'm just going to move to the country.
[00:17:58]  This is this is the kind of place that she was going to hide.

=== Segway into Privacy Concerns (05:50) ===

[00:18:01]  And paying a million dollars in cash, that is, uh, I got to be honest, if someone gave me a million dollars in cash for a house, I would be a little suspicious.
[00:18:10]  But it looks like she paid through a, like you were saying, through a anonymous LLC set up.
[00:18:16]  Yeah, paying in cash is fairly common nowadays, actually.
[00:18:20]  But yes.
[00:18:22]  Like I said.
[00:18:22]  A liquor store?
[00:18:24]  No, no.
[00:18:25]  For, I mean, when rich people buy homes, it's fairly common.
[00:18:29]  But yeah, you know, I think this house is just further proof of Gillian's storied taste level that everyone has come to know and love.
[00:18:41]  Just a god-off, like a woman with negative taste.
[00:18:46]  What's strange is that, so some people were speculating with the fact that she was in New Hampshire.
[00:18:52]  And I don't think this is the case at all, but I do like it.
[00:18:54]  Everyone knows I love a little possible, I don't know, thread to pull on.
[00:19:01]  But there was speculation that she was with Dean Kamen.
[00:19:05]  I think that's how you say it.
[00:19:06]  Of the Killin Island clan.
[00:19:08]  No, K-A-M-E-N, which is just one letter removed from Karen.
[00:19:15]  Inventor of the Segway, funny enough.
[00:19:20]  Also rumored to, I got to phrase this very carefully.
[00:19:24]  Allegedly rumored by other people who sources I will not name that he killed his business partner, I believe, via a Segway.
[00:19:34]  Okay, I don't know about the allegation that you have heard others allege.
[00:19:39]  I'm reporting that others are making.
[00:19:42]  Yes, yes, yes.
[00:19:43]  But I do know the story about the co-founder of Segway dying in a Segway accident, which I always found very unfortunate.
[00:19:51]  I don't know a ton about him.
[00:19:53]  I've always been, I've wheeled instruments, as I call all methods of transportation that are not walking, frighten me.
[00:20:02]  Or one of the Flintstone cars.
[00:20:05]  Exactly.
[00:20:05]  Which really is the original Segway in a lot of ways.
[00:20:08]  Anyway, Keyman, of course, was photographed with Epstein at one of the annual billionaires dinners that Epstein frequented alongside the organization Edge, which we've talked about extensively on the podcast.
[00:20:24]  Yeah, he's guilty of something.
[00:20:28]  I just don't know if he's guilty of this.
[00:20:32]  So, okay, let's actually, this was one other thing I really want to mention before we actually get into the meat and potatoes of this, which is what the indictment says in the various allegations being brought forth, which we're going to break down.
[00:20:47]  But there was just like, I don't know how this guy got on this real quick, but in something called Avenue Magazine, which I've never heard of, but as some society something or other.
[00:21:01]  I mean, I just like to put it out here, to be totally transparent, I did invest $50,000 in the podcast.
[00:21:09]  Wait, oh my God.
[00:21:10]  This is Sophia from Colorado.
[00:21:13]  Let's just keep going with it.
[00:21:15]  Okay, I'm sorry.
[00:21:18]  I hate that I'm quoting from this piece because there really is a funny little fact in here, but I just have to read the first sentence of this article because it makes me want to, you know, I don't know what, but like Humford Humbert, the peripatetic pedophile of Vladimir Nabokov's scandalous 1955 Lolita, Ghillaine Maxwell seems to have been on a road trip to out-of-the-way places.
[00:21:45]  What kind of fucking sentence is that?
[00:21:47]  Christ.
[00:21:48]  That's terrible.
[00:21:50]  Anyway, the one thing that's very funny in this piece, which is just quoting some unagen, unnamed sources, unnamed society pals, is that they're asking basically some people on the Upper East Side why they think Ghillain was in New Hampshire.
[00:22:10]  And this is what one former pal told Avenue Magazine.
[00:22:15]  It makes sense.
[00:22:16]  New Hampshire is the perfect place for Ghillene to stash herself.
[00:22:20]  There isn't a big back and forth between the Upper East Side and, you know, actually, I can't even name a town in that state.
[00:22:28]  The friend added, now we're just waiting for a picture.
[00:22:32]  Everyone wants to see if she got fat.
[00:22:36]  Just these fucking people, man.
[00:22:39]  First of all, Ghillain is, we've long established that Ghillain Maxwell has eating disorder.
[00:22:43]  She did not get fat.
[00:22:46]  I just, my God, these fucking people.
[00:22:50]  So incredible.
[00:22:52]  There's also, I really like the sentence in it.
[00:22:55]  This arrest, the arrest caps a more than year-long investigation that involved many New Yorkers.
[00:23:01]  Like it certainly did.
[00:23:02]  I don't know if the thing that ties them all together is just New York.
[00:23:05]  I think that's what I'm saying.
[00:23:05]  That's such a New York society thing to say, too.
[00:23:08]  Let's talk about who arrested them before we get really into why she was arrested.
[00:23:31]  Okay, so man, this, yeah, again, this is kind of like an onion.
[00:23:36]  We're like peeling back the layers here because we need to give some context about what's going on between the Attorney General's office and the Southern District of New York, which is the, which is who filed the charges against Gillane.

=== Bill Barr Fires Jeffrey Berman (08:33) ===

[00:23:52]  So less than two weeks ago, I think even maybe just 12 or 11 days ago, Bill Barr famously and very publicly fired Jeffrey Berman, who'd been in office in the Southern District of New York since 2018 as the U.S. attorney there, meaning the head honcho.
[00:24:09]  This apparently was news to Jeffrey Berman.
[00:24:14]  I think Bill Barr maybe even just said it in an interview.
[00:24:16]  And the Southern District of New York put a Twitter page, and I think they also sent out a press release, put out a statement that said, I learned in a press release from the Attorney General tonight that I was stepping down as United States Attorney.
[00:24:30]  I have not resigned and I have no intention of resigning my position to which I was appointed by the judges of the United States District Court for Southern District of New York.
[00:24:38]  I will step down when a presidentially appointed nominee is confirmed by the Senate.
[00:24:42]  Until then, our investigations will move forward without delay or interruption.
[00:24:47]  I cherish every day that I work with the men and women of this office to pursue justice without fear or a favor and intend to ensure that the office's important cases continue unimpeded.
[00:24:57]  So that was from Jeffrey Berman.
[00:24:59]  And what's kind of funny is actually Berman, of course, was put in office in 2018, so during the Trump presidency.
[00:25:07]  And actually, I believe, and I can't remember.
[00:25:12]  I didn't look it up.
[00:25:13]  So I could be wrong on this.
[00:25:14]  I believe Kristen Gillibrand, however the fuck you pronounce that fucking lady's name, said she would block him, but he was like the acting U.S. attorney for a second, and I believe got confirmed by judges.
[00:25:26]  So when Bill Barr fired him, he actually couldn't fire him.
[00:25:31]  Like it wasn't legal for him to do that.
[00:25:33]  And I believe he tried one more time during the day.
[00:25:36]  And then the next day got the president, aka Donald Trump, to do the firing himself because he does have authority to do that.
[00:25:45]  So Berman got fired basically by Trump and Barr.
[00:25:50]  Yeah, it seemed that basically there were rumors or, I mean, it's unclear.
[00:25:58]  Trump said this and then Barr kind of said it, but they didn't really, basically they said that they wanted to replace Berman with the current head of the SEC.
[00:26:11]  And that guy, by the way, has basically no experience.
[00:26:15]  Yeah, Jay Clayton.
[00:26:16]  Also, As everyone's very well aware, the SEC Securities and Exchange Commission, which absolutely goes after so many financial crimes and regulatory infractions and just such a competent body that is when will your reign of terror end?
[00:26:34]  Yes, that's what I'm always saying.
[00:26:36]  That's what everyone's always saying.
[00:26:37]  So, no, but you know, and to be totally frank, like Jay Clayton wouldn't, I mean, I think the whole idea would then be to just, you know, neutralize the SDNY, which of course has been a pain in the ass for the Trump administration.
[00:26:54]  You've got the Michael Cohen stuff.
[00:26:57]  There was the entire God.
[00:27:00]  I mean, the whole case with the Turkish bank, which was very complicated and seemed to really like fuck up some things for Trump.
[00:27:11]  Excuse my language.
[00:27:11]  I don't know.
[00:27:12]  Giuliani shit.
[00:27:14]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:27:15]  They started to kind of tease out that they were going to go into Giuliani.
[00:27:19]  I think there was like an inquiry, but it's unclear where that was going.
[00:27:25]  So, you know, it's, but what happened then, it sounds like Berman and Barr kind of maybe behind the scenes came to an understanding because instead of replacing or immediately replacing Berman with Jay Clayton, they promoted Audrey Strauss, who was Berman's chief deputy.
[00:27:48]  And now she is acting attorney general, or excuse me, U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.
[00:27:55]  I got to say, that surprises me because, first of all, Berman had recused himself, although to be clear, have no idea how recused that is.
[00:28:04]  You know what I mean?
[00:28:05]  Right, right.
[00:28:06]  Recused himself from a lot of the Trump stuff.
[00:28:08]  And Strauss, I believe, did kind of take the lead on a lot of it.
[00:28:12]  And the fact is, she's been fucking had some bad relations with some big Trump allies before, including Roy Cohn, who was like one, I believe, one of like the first people she faced down when she was a young lawyer.
[00:28:26]  And Bill Barr himself.
[00:28:29]  Yeah, so this is all a bit fascinating to me.
[00:28:34]  You know, all these people have kind of known each other, it sounds like, for a long time, but they, and including Berman.
[00:28:39]  But Berman, Strauss, and Barr, and, you know, I'm going to throw in Epstein in there as well, have all kind of circled each other over the past couple decades.
[00:28:50]  Now, Barr, if people are unaware, let's just back up for a second.
[00:28:55]  William Barr, his father, Donald Barr, hired Jeffrey Epstein when he was the head of the Dalton School in New York for Jeffrey Epstein's first job.
[00:29:07]  Now, Donald Barr was also an officer in the OSS, which is the precursor to the CIA.
[00:29:15]  William Barr, his son, also was employed by the CIA and then was deputy attorney general under H.W. Bush before the Attorney General stepped down and then he was nominated and confirmed by H.W. Bush as attorney general.
[00:29:34]  Now, what was the big scandal that was happening or continuing to happen under the H.W. Bush administration?
[00:29:43]  Well, there was a continued investigation into the Iran-Contra scandal, right?
[00:29:50]  So a man named Lawrence Walsh was chosen to be the kind of head of the independent counsel that investigated the Iran-Contra affair.
[00:30:00]  And that lasted, I want to say it's like, I mean, it's like 86 to 87 to 91, 90.
[00:30:10]  I mean, it was a very long investigation.
[00:30:12]  And there were two lawyers, I mean, there were a bunch of lawyers that worked under him, but two of them, one was named Berman and one was named Strauss.
[00:30:24]  So these people have been around for a while.
[00:30:27]  Now, not only that, but Lawrence Walsh, you know, he basically, when he was investigating, he said that he had evidence that implicated, and this is what he said, quote, a conspiracy among the highest ranking Reagan administration officials to lie to Congress and the American public.
[00:30:47]  And they indicted Reagan Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger, who was set to stand trial on felony charges in the following year, but he never did.
[00:31:01]  Now, why was that?
[00:31:03]  Oh, okay.
[00:31:04]  H.W. Bush, Pappy Bush, who we've talked about a lot on this podcast, he was advised by his attorney general, William Barr, to pardon Caspar Weinberger before he could stand trial, along with five other Reagan administration officials previously found guilty.
[00:31:28]  So to kind of like pull back a second, Audrey Strauss, who is now, who just, you know, arrested Gill A. Maxwell, who is the right-hand procurer/slash abuser alongside Jeffrey Epstein, used to work alongside Berman under the man Lawrence Walsh,
[00:31:54]  who investigated the Iran-Contra affair, who was basically shut down by William Barr, who is now the attorney general for the Trump administration and whose father hired Jeffrey Epstein for his first job.
[00:32:11]  It's crazy.
[00:32:12]  Think there's like, there's like what seven billion people in the world.
[00:32:16]  It's cool how people like it's just so, it's like you run into, like old friends, you run into girls.
[00:32:21]  I know, it's just so small, it's so small, it's so small.
[00:32:24]  I love it.

=== Maximum Sentences Echoed (03:45) ===

[00:32:25]  It's, it's just, I don't know that that to me is like a movie.
[00:32:29]  Um, this is the stuff that makes you crazy right yeah oh, because this is also.
[00:32:34]  I mean, you know everyone's like oh conspiracy, this conspiracy, that fine, but like, Iran Contra is like and you know we were just talking the other day about trying to gear up to do a real, proper series on Contra.
[00:32:47]  You know this keeps Iran Contra keeps coming up over and over and over again, and all these people play a part and we're still living in a long long uh, long shadow of um, one of the biggest scandals in American history that basically no one talks about anymore.
[00:33:05]  I, I would say Iran Contra was just like it's to me.
[00:33:08]  I view it as just like an event in a long sort of I don't know what to call it, but a conspiracy of people in like the literal sense, um yeah yeah yeah sure, like a continuation rather than like a exactly yeah, because it's a lot of people view it like that, like it's like the JFK thing.
[00:33:28]  They think like oh, like which is also incorrect to view this way like, oh well, he got shot by these people for these reasons, it's like a discrete event.
[00:33:36]  Right right right no uh, I mean, this is still literally the arrest today still has like echoes from it.
[00:33:45]  Yes.
[00:33:45]  Not in the anti-Semitic way.
[00:34:09]  Well, now let's get to the main event.
[00:34:13]  So.
[00:34:14]  So, Ghillain Maxwell in cuffs.
[00:34:18]  Well, first we'll talk about the, the thing that happened, uh earlier, where she had her little uh, microphone mix up.
[00:34:25]  Oh man yeah, maybe we'll end.
[00:34:28]  Maybe we'll end on that.
[00:34:30]  By the way, I don't I again like we're doing this episode today.
[00:34:34]  You know there's a lot more stuff that could come And that probably will come out.
[00:34:38]  We're trying to get this out as soon as possible.
[00:34:40]  But if you have audio of that, please send it to me.
[00:34:44]  And you'll know what I'm talking about later.
[00:34:48]  So, what are we looking at?
[00:34:49]  We are looking at the unsealed indictment for the United States versus Ghillain Maxwell.
[00:34:57]  So, she is, she is, let me read from the SDNY, I think, press release that they put out.
[00:35:03]  Ghillaine Maxwell, 58, is charged with one count of enticing a minor to travel to engage in illegal sex acts, which carries a minimum sentence of five years in prison.
[00:35:12]  One count of conspiracy to entice a minor to engage in illegal sex acts, which carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison, one count of transporting a minor with the intent to engage in criminal sexual activity, which carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison.
[00:35:27]  One count of conspiracy to transport a minor with the intent to engage in criminal sexual activity, which carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison, and two counts of perjury, which each of which carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison.
[00:35:40]  So, maximum, she's looking at a few decades.
[00:35:44]  Yeah, I mean, yeah, we'll get into some predictions after we go through this, but yeah, I wouldn't hold too closely to the numbers you just heard there.
[00:35:52]  Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, what we should really stress here is that these case, so the victims that are named, there's three victims that are named, or not, they're not named, they're, you know, they're unnamed, but there's three different victims in the indictment.

=== Sexual Abuse Indictment (15:03) ===

[00:36:10]  Um, these are all events that take place between 1994 and 1997, it looks like, um, which is not really, you know, if you're following the Epstein case, if you're big, true, non-listener, or, you know, or not, whatever, you know, that's not really a time period that we really focus on with Epstein, right?
[00:36:35]  There's really not a lot to dig into there.
[00:36:37]  Like, Epstein didn't really arrive until more towards the late 90s.
[00:36:42]  You know, he and Ghillaine started dating.
[00:36:44]  Her dad died in 1991, and she met Jeffrey, you know, shortly after that in New York City.
[00:36:52]  And they dated for a little while, I think, more like officially, and then settled into the relationship, which they engaged in for pretty much their entire lives after that, of like half mistress, half employee.
[00:37:06]  Well, I'm going to stop saying half because there's other fractions to this, but also sort of pimp and sort of house manager too.
[00:37:15]  But it's notable.
[00:37:17]  And so the 1994 to 1997 thing doesn't really surprise me because if you'll remember, in Jeffrey Epstein's case in the mid-2000s, went from about 2005, 2007, He was able, or his lawyers, including Alan Dershowitz and I believe Kenneth Starr, were able to secure immunity for any unindicted unnamed co-conspirators.
[00:37:46]  Federal immunity.
[00:37:47]  Yeah, I mean, it's just, yeah, we've gone in, you know, we've gone in on how insane the plea deal was.
[00:37:55]  So you're suggesting that because of that plea deal, it makes sense that they focused their case, you know, with Ghillain on these years that would have precluded that.
[00:38:05]  Yeah.
[00:38:05]  And notably, a lot of the, I mean, again, I'm not a fucking lawyer.
[00:38:11]  Not again.
[00:38:11]  I'm saying this for the first time.
[00:38:12]  I'm not a fucking lawyer.
[00:38:14]  I did go to law school.
[00:38:15]  I did pass the bar.
[00:38:15]  I did practice law for several years, but I'm not a lawyer per se.
[00:38:19]  I'm a cool lawyer.
[00:38:22]  But yeah, he like, I don't know, I don't know exactly how that works here.
[00:38:28]  And I've asked a couple of people.
[00:38:29]  They didn't know either.
[00:38:32]  But I assume it's because if they do focus on victims from not only a different time period, but from different physical locations rather than in Florida, like the 2006, 2007 case was on, then it'll be much harder for the lawyers to really try any bullshit.
[00:38:53]  Because I have a feeling Ghillain's going to get some pretty good lawyers.
[00:38:57]  Yeah.
[00:38:58]  I hope, I mean, it would be pretty funny if she got Alan Dershowitz.
[00:39:02]  He seems like he's losing it.
[00:39:05]  So I don't think that tack is very sharp anymore.
[00:39:09]  Yeah, Ghillane's too smart for that, unfortunately.
[00:39:11]  But it would be pretty funny.
[00:39:14]  So should we just dive into this indictment?
[00:39:17]  There's two documents here.
[00:39:18]  There's an indictment and then there is a, what the fuck is it called?
[00:39:23]  U.S. government detainment memorandum.
[00:39:26]  Yeah, so let's go into the indictment first.
[00:39:30]  So let's start by just going into what the indictment says.
[00:39:36]  So basically it lays out, again, in these years, Maxwell first attempted to befriend some of Epstein's minor victims prior to their abuse, including by asking the victims about their lives, their schools, and their families.
[00:39:50]  They would spend time building friendships with minor victims by, for example, taking minor victims to the movies or shopping.
[00:39:57]  Some of these outings would involve Maxwell and Epstein spending time together with a minor victim, while some would involve Maxwell or Epstein spending time alone with a minor victim.
[00:40:08]  So basically it sounds like what the case is really built.
[00:40:14]  They're really trying to build a case that, and they mentioned this in their press conference this morning, that Maxwell was grooming victims for Epstein.
[00:40:25]  Yeah, they mentioned that a bunch, actually.
[00:40:27]  I really found that interesting about this, especially, I think grooming is like a really hot button word right now.
[00:40:33]  But I mean, it really does apply pretty well to what Epstein and Ghelane did to their victims.
[00:40:40]  Absolutely.
[00:40:41]  The thing that sort of none of none of what Liz just read off should surprise basically anybody who knows much about the Epstein stuff because that was their MO.
[00:40:52]  They would begin talking to a young girl over circumstances, whether it was sometimes in Florida, you know, it would be about giving a massage that was not implied to be sexual, or they, you know, they would just meet someone after school and be like, hey, you're really, it's, you know, really creepy shit, especially considering these were much older people and very young people.
[00:41:13]  And then try to kind of like dazzle them by being nice.
[00:41:16]  I mean, famously, a couple of the magicians that Epstein was friends with.
[00:41:23]  Fuck, what was it?
[00:41:25]  David Blaine and David Copperfield.
[00:41:28]  Yes.
[00:41:30]  They both supplied tickets to Epstein for him to take young girls to their shows.
[00:41:36]  And so they would try to impress these girls and befriend these girls because that makes grooming them easier.
[00:41:44]  I mean, that is grooming.
[00:41:45]  Yeah.
[00:41:45]  So the indictment continues.
[00:41:46]  It says, having developed a rapport with the victim, Maxwell would try to normalize sexual abuse for minor victims by, among other things, discussing sexual topics, undressing in front of the victims, being present when a minor victim was undressed, and or being present for sex acts involving the minor victim in Epstein.
[00:42:07]  Yeah.
[00:42:11]  I mean, that is definitely tracks with everything we know about her.
[00:42:15]  I mean, famously, Ghelane had a very dirty mouth and wasn't funny, but just said like shocking sexual stuff pretty much constantly, regardless of company.
[00:42:26]  Right.
[00:42:27]  And the idea of like a grown woman kind of, I mean, as they say, trying to normalize sexual abuse by saying, you know, being that candid around children, saying this is all normal, this creating this like environment where none of this would seem inappropriate or abusive, you know, exploitative, etc.
[00:42:51]  I mean, I just think that's like textbook grooming.
[00:42:54]  That's what we, that's what that word traditionally means.
[00:42:59]  Yeah.
[00:42:59]  And there is like a heavy throughout this indictment, you know, the way these things work is they often repeat themselves.
[00:43:05]  I think that's sort of something you have to do legally.
[00:43:08]  But there is, there's, again, very heavy emphasis on the grooming aspects here because a lot of that is actually what she's being charged with because a lot of this is basically sex trafficking charges.
[00:43:20]  And to explain that, like you have to explain that she was involved in trafficking these girls for the purposes of sex.
[00:43:28]  And that basically every action she took with these girls was leading up to them having sex with either her or Epstein or both, right?
[00:43:36]  Yeah.
[00:43:37]  And so there's another part that says through this process, Maxwell and Epstein enticed victims to engage in sexual activity with Epstein.
[00:43:45]  In some instances, Maxwell was present for and participated in the sexual abuse of minor victims.
[00:43:50]  Some such incidents occurred in the context of massages, which developed into sexual encounters.
[00:43:56]  Yeah, so this is something that, again, you know, like we like we said previously, or like Grace said previously, like that we really tried to hammer home about Gillane.
[00:44:05]  And it's good to see that, you know, hopefully this will be more covered by the people covering it, if there are still people covering this, that, you know, she was an active, not just participant, but, you know, an active abuser in these, in this, in these situations with these young girls.
[00:44:28]  So they talk too about the location of the assaults, because that's obviously pretty important to the case they're building.
[00:44:34]  You know, a lot of it, for at least some of it, hinges on bringing girls across state lines for sexual purposes.
[00:44:41]  The locations they name, and there's actually pictures too, are Epstein's mansion in New York City, his Palm Beach mansion, and his Zoro Ranch mansion.
[00:44:51]  There's no mention of Little St. James, which a lot of people are confused by, but Epstein bought Little St. James in 1998.
[00:45:00]  And so there's, I mean, unless he was on vacation or something, that's not going to be mentioned in this.
[00:45:08]  There's three victims, like we said.
[00:45:10]  And the first victim is a victim one, they call her, is a 14-year-old.
[00:45:15]  I don't want to get too into the details of these.
[00:45:19]  You can sort of infer, obviously, from basically his entire MO or their entire MO.
[00:45:26]  But it mentions how Maxwell groomed her, made her comfortable, and then unleashed Epstein on her.
[00:45:30]  So that's a classic Gillain maneuver in which she sort of, and I'm putting quotes around this, seduces the girl and makes her feel maybe like a woman or feel really, you know, valued and loved.
[00:45:42]  And then she gets the girl's trust and gives her to Epstein.
[00:45:49]  This one, though, is notable too, because they mentioned specifically they traveled across state lines with this girl, Florida and New York.
[00:45:58]  Same with victim two.
[00:46:00]  And in that instance, it takes place in New Mexico, where, of course, we know that Epstein had Zorro Ranch, which could be the possible location where this took place.
[00:46:14]  They had flown into New Mexico from out of state at Epstein's invitation.
[00:46:20]  And this was for the purpose of being groomed and, you know, subjected to acts of sexual abuse.
[00:46:28]  This one, it says Maxwell groomed her via giving the girl a massage, which also really tracks with what Maxwell, you know, has been reported constantly as doing, is when she would, you know, Epstein would be sitting there and she'd grab his foot and be like, hey, let me show you how to massage it or how to give a massage to like a girl there if she hadn't done that kind of thing before.
[00:46:49]  And it just shows like how sick this relationship is too.
[00:46:54]  Like she, I don't know, it's it's like a lot of pedophiles kind of combine operations on like the actual pedophilia and the grooming part.
[00:47:03]  And it kind of seems like Epstein outsources grooming to Ghelane, which I think is incredibly strange.
[00:47:10]  I think this victim, I'm not going to say her name because I don't know if it's for sure, but I think this victim is one that has had a fair few stories about her.
[00:47:20]  And I don't think there's the wrong way.
[00:47:22]  I'm hoping it is just because I know that she would like to get some measure of justice on this and can't imagine that, you know, also in a civil suit with Ghelane, Ghillane said for the suit to be stopped because it was an active criminal investigation.
[00:47:39]  And so that leads me to believe that this is that woman.
[00:47:44]  Victim three is one that I found notable because it takes place in London.
[00:47:49]  So like Epstein and Ghillain recruited from everywhere.
[00:47:53]  I mean, they recruited from, you know, obviously New York, Palm Beach, also in New Mexico.
[00:48:01]  And Virginia Jeffery has said too that at one point she was supposed to go to Southeast Asia to procure a girl that they had somehow come in contact with or more likely come in contact with her pimps or owners or whatever you want to call it.
[00:48:16]  But this girl, it doesn't say that she's British, but it does say that Ghillain met her in Britain, right?
[00:48:22]  Yeah.
[00:48:23]  And I should have mentioned this earlier.
[00:48:26]  The indictment also states that Ghelane's townhouse in London is a location of interest, you might say here.
[00:48:33]  And so it's the same story as the other ones.
[00:48:36]  Grooming, manipulating, encouraged massage of Epstein, etc.
[00:48:41]  Yeah.
[00:48:43]  So there's a couple other counts that we should mention.
[00:48:47]  Count two is enticement of a minor to travel to engage in illegal sex acts.
[00:48:52]  And so this is basically alleging that Ghillain tried to persuade, coerce, induce the victims to travel, you know, you know, between states, across state lines, and, you know, to foreign countries to engage in sexual activity, basically, I mean, criminal sexual activity.
[00:49:19]  Yeah.
[00:49:19]  So count three is pretty similar.
[00:49:22]  It's conspiracy to transport minors with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity.
[00:49:28]  And this one, I mean, the actual like law surrounding this says a person who knowingly transports an individual who has not attained the age of 18 years in interstate or foreign commerce or in any Commonwealth territory or possession in the U.S. with intent to that the individual engage in prostitution or in any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense shall be fined under this Thailand prison, not less than 10 years, 10 years or for life.
[00:49:55]  So any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense, well, obviously any sexual activity would be the molesting of a child and any person, not only Ghillain, but Epstein here.
[00:50:11]  So, yeah.
[00:50:12]  Yeah, and this charge is alleging conspiracy, which is a little bit different.
[00:50:16]  So that's getting into basically that she was that basically, you know, it's these group sexual encounters that they cite so that other people are involved.
[00:50:26]  So it's not just her.
[00:50:27]  So that's, that's going to be interesting if they can prove that, I think.
[00:50:31]  Yeah, absolutely.
[00:50:34]  She also gets accused in the indictment, although I don't think this is an actual charge against her of sexual abuse in the third degree, which is unlike the New York Penal Code.
[00:50:43]  So I can't really tell how that's actually going to play into this trial.
[00:50:48]  Count four is transportation of a minor with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity.
[00:50:53]  This one is, again, very similar.
[00:50:58]  This one is basically the last one, except I believe it's without the conspiracy part.
[00:51:04]  So I'm not really sure.
[00:51:05]  Again, not a fucking lawyer.
[00:51:06]  Don't know why they're adding very similar charges.
[00:51:10]  It could be to just like see which ones stick or more provable.

=== False Testimony Revelations (06:41) ===

[00:51:14]  That's what I would do.
[00:51:16]  But yeah, same deal here.
[00:51:19]  So the last or the last couple counts are really interesting because they're actually counts of perjury, which is pretty funny.
[00:51:29]  If I knew that you could call the police on women for lying, I would.
[00:51:32]  Oh, brother.
[00:51:34]  Things would be very different for me.
[00:51:35]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:51:37]  Yeah, she's got two counts of perjury.
[00:51:39]  Yeah, so this is pretty good.
[00:51:40]  So it says on or about April 22nd, 2016, in the Southern District of New York, Ghillaine Maxwell, having taken oath to testify truthfully in her deposition in connection with a case then pending, knowingly has made false declarations.
[00:51:55]  She gave the following underlined false testimony.
[00:51:58]  Question, did Jeffrey Epstein have a scheme to recruit underage girls for sexual massages?
[00:52:04]  Answer, I don't know what you're talking about.
[00:52:07]  Lie!
[00:52:10]  It reminds me of that.
[00:52:11]  It's amazing that she's being, she's perjured when she just said, I don't know what you're talking about.
[00:52:16]  Because it's like, yes, she did know what you were talking about.
[00:52:19]  I know.
[00:52:19]  I wish we could like insert that Mariah Carey gif.
[00:52:22]  That's like, I don't know her.
[00:52:24]  Like, that's just what I imagine Ghillaine Maxwell doing.
[00:52:29]  Question: List all the people under the age of 18 that you interacted with at any of Jeffree's properties.
[00:52:34]  Answer: I'm not aware of anybody that I interacted with other than obviously the plaintiff, who's unnamed, who was 17 at this point.
[00:52:45]  And then we got a six count two of perjury as well.
[00:52:49]  Do you want to read that bad boy for us?
[00:52:51]  It's a little bit longer, but it's also, I think, kind of important.
[00:52:55]  Sure.
[00:52:56]  Question: Were you aware of the presence of, oh, God.
[00:52:59]  Okay.
[00:53:01]  Question: Were you aware of the presence of sex toys or devices used in sexual activities in Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach house?
[00:53:08]  Answer, no, not that I recall.
[00:53:11]  So I want to jump in here and say you do recall it, Ghelane Maxwell, because there is testimony from multiple people that you had a fucking dresser full of sex toys.
[00:53:23]  Insane.
[00:53:25]  Question: Do you know whether Mr. Epstein possessed sex toys or devices used in sexual activities?
[00:53:32]  Answer, no.
[00:53:33]  Eh, wrong.
[00:53:38]  Question: Other than yourself and the blonde and brunette that you have identified as having been involved in three-way sexual activities, with whom did Mr. Epstein have sexual activities?
[00:53:49]  Answer: I wasn't aware that he was having sexual activities with anyone when I was with him other than myself.
[00:53:56]  So, such a lie.
[00:53:58]  That is felony perjury right there.
[00:54:03]  Question: I want to be sure that I'm clear.
[00:54:06]  Is it your testimony that in the 1990s and 2000s, you were not aware that Mr. Epstein was having sexual activities with anyone other than yourself and the blonde and brunette on those few occasions when they were involved with you?
[00:54:19]  Answer, that is my testimony.
[00:54:22]  That is correct.
[00:54:25]  Also wrong.
[00:54:28]  There's a few more questions that are literally just about if she's given massage or seen people give a massage.
[00:54:33]  Yeah, I mean, okay, so I want to like just pause for a second because I want to say this about my sense with Gillette.
[00:54:39]  And maybe this can get into the hilarious transcript, barely a transcript of the call that she was on for her like bail hearing or whatever this morning.
[00:54:53]  But like, this does, this seems like a very overconfident woman.
[00:54:57]  Like there are, and, you know, this is what they say in the indictment, that they have diary entries, testimony, they have secondhand testimony.
[00:55:05]  They have like so much that can really eat at or really support these perjury charges.
[00:55:11]  Yeah.
[00:55:12]  And like, it takes a real, like, you know, confidence woman, confidence man to sit there and just, I mean, those are such blatant lies that are so easily disprovable, allegedly, I think.
[00:55:25]  Yeah.
[00:55:27]  That, I mean, the hubris is just remarkable.
[00:55:31]  And I think that is maybe a component of her personality that we haven't accounted for in the past.
[00:55:38]  Yeah, it is sort of incredible just how, I think overconfident is the right word.
[00:55:43]  Just like how sure of this, herself that this woman was.
[00:55:47]  That like, I mean, even if you go back to that, that photo that she had released of her at the In-N-Out Burger with the CIA book, just releasing that just stunks so much of like, of hubris.
[00:56:02]  Exactly.
[00:56:02]  Just like sort of taunting, like, you can't catch me and sort of too smart by half kind of bullshit.
[00:56:08]  Yeah.
[00:56:08]  So I do want to read then from this.
[00:56:15]  This is Mike Sachs, Esquire.
[00:56:18]  Don't know who he is.
[00:56:22]  But he is on the presentment conference call.
[00:56:26]  And, you know, so it's a bunch of journalists and like courtroom news reporters following this presentment call.
[00:56:35]  And, you know, they can't see anyone.
[00:56:37]  So it sounds like he doesn't know who's who or what's going on.
[00:56:41]  Right.
[00:56:42]  So I'm just going to read from his tweets because it's very, very funny.
[00:56:48]  On the Ghillane Maxwell presentment conference call, a cheery female British accent voice goes, who are you?
[00:56:56]  Several times before automated moderator goes, participants on this call are now in listen-only mode.
[00:57:03]  It continues.
[00:57:04]  What the fuck is going on?
[00:57:05]  I don't understand.
[00:57:06]  Literally, what the fuck?
[00:57:07]  I don't understand.
[00:57:10]  Says the increasingly distraught British accented female voice.
[00:57:15]  Please mute your lines, people, says the moderator.
[00:57:19]  So he says, we think that maybe that's Maxwell, but we're not totally sure.
[00:57:24]  He says, my money's on Maxwell because the rest of us don't have the power to mute or unmute ourselves.
[00:57:30]  Yes.
[00:57:31]  And now they seem to be trying to get her back on a conference call from the holding room.
[00:57:37]  Incredible.
[00:57:37]  An auspicious beginning to her prison journey.
[00:57:41]  I mean, she sounds hysterical about this.
[00:57:44]  Which makes sense.
[00:57:44]  I truly think that she thought this might just blow over.
[00:57:48]  So there's also another document, the U.S. government detainment memorandum.
[00:57:53]  Love a memorandum.

=== Why She's Not Getting Bail (09:45) ===

[00:57:55]  This has some pretty choice lines in it, including some stuff that we didn't know before.
[00:58:00]  One of them says, and basically all of it sums up to this lady is not getting bail.
[00:58:07]  Yeah.
[00:58:08]  But one of the lines that stood out to me was, in short, Maxwell has three passports, large sums of money, extensive international connections, very true, and absolutely no reason to stay in the United States and face the possibility of a lengthy prison sentence.
[00:58:23]  Yeah, I mean, that's been clear from the start.
[00:58:26]  But they really lay it out, and there's some really interesting details in here that I'm hoping some enterprising financial gum shoes might...
[00:58:35]  Fin gums.
[00:58:38]  That's very cute and disgusting at the same time.
[00:58:43]  So basically, they basically lay out a case for, like we said, why she shouldn't get bail.
[00:58:52]  And they go into kind of not too specifically a lot of financial transactions and various bank accounts that she has.
[00:59:04]  So, you know, we haven't obviously have no idea about any of this.
[00:59:07]  So it's very interesting.
[00:59:11]  Based on the government's investigation to date, the government has identified more than 15 different bank accounts held by or associated with Maxwell from 2016 to the present.
[00:59:20]  So that's only 2016.
[00:59:22]  And during that same period, the total balances of those accounts have ranged from a total of hundreds of thousands of dollars to more than 20 million.
[00:59:30]  Now, let's just pause for a second.
[00:59:32]  That's quite the difference.
[00:59:34]  Yes.
[00:59:34]  Also, that was a lot of money.
[00:59:37]  Yeah, in the span of four years, her accounts have ranged from a couple hundred thousand dollars to twenty million dollars.
[00:59:43]  Yeah.
[00:59:43]  And well, well, I mean, she just has 15 accounts.
[00:59:46]  So I guess she's just got a bunch of different sums of money in these different accounts.
[00:59:52]  It is extremely strange, though, that like, first of all, that she has so many.
[00:59:57]  I mean, rich people always have a lot of bank accounts.
[01:00:01]  But it's the foreign bank account containing more than a million dollars is odd, but it's not insane considering that it could be an Israeli bank, could be a French bank, could be a British bank, could be a bank in one of these countries that basically just does, you know, sketchy banking for people.
[01:00:20]  I will say that there's a little footnote here.
[01:00:24]  The government additionally notes that somewhat further back in time, in transaction occurring between 2007 and 2011, approximately more than $20 million was transferred from accounts associated with Jeffrey Epstein to accounts associated with defendant, including amounts in the millions of dollars that were then subsequently transferred back to accounts associated with Epstein.
[01:00:49]  Yeah, so that's very strange.
[01:00:51]  No clue what that's about.
[01:00:54]  Yeah, I mean, it sounds like, I don't want to use the L word, but moving some money around between good friends.
[01:01:02]  Who doesn't do that?
[01:01:04]  Always shoot my friend 20 million dollars and then have them return it like a couple years later.
[01:01:09]  Yeah, so she's like I mean, that's one thing they really point to is the defendant engaged in transfers between her accounts of hundreds of thousands of dollars at the time, including at least several significant transfers as recently as 2019.
[01:01:21]  So she's transferring five hundred thousand dollars of money in between different accounts to three hundred thousand dollars.
[01:01:28]  Um, you know uh, lady's got access to a lot of money and boy, is she moving it around?
[01:01:35]  Yeah, she's just grooving along with that kind of shit.
[01:01:38]  I mean, she paid for this house in cash, a million dollars, and a lot of people, including myself, have speculated exactly where.
[01:01:45]  I mean, Ghelaine obviously came from a rich, though bankrupt, family.
[01:01:49]  Um, she has a lot of capital and it's a little unclear exactly how she got it.
[01:01:56]  She was, of course, enmeshed with one extremely rich person, so that doesn't really surprise me, but we we've never really gotten a glimpse into her finances like this before.
[01:02:07]  Yeah, I like there's a couple two, two other things I want to mention with this.
[01:02:12]  Um thereafter, the defendant, who had previously made many public appearances, stopped appearing in public entirely, instead hiding out in locations in New England.
[01:02:25]  Moreover, it appears that she made intentional efforts to avoid detection, including moving locations, at least twice switching her primary phone number, which she registered under the name GMAX to, particularly.
[01:02:38]  She actually had a corporation called GMAX as well at one point that I couldn't find anything about except for the name.
[01:02:44]  I just thought that was very funny.
[01:02:47]  That's her.
[01:02:47]  That's her Soundcloud rap name.
[01:02:49]  One thing too, that the assistant director, I believe, of the FBI said during this press conference was that she had, they had, they actually had known where she was this whole time and had had decided to snatch her up after she slithered he used that word slithered down to a beautiful property in New Hampshire.
[01:03:08]  She does kind of slither.
[01:03:10]  She's a they yeah, yeah.
[01:03:12]  They end this with a bit of a cruel note, little twist of the knife, the defendant appears to have no ties that would motivate her to remain in the United States.
[01:03:20]  She has no children, does not reside with any immediate family members and does not have any employment that would require her to remain in the United States.
[01:03:30]  That's true.
[01:03:30]  I believe her employers do come from another country.
[01:03:32]  Yeah she's uh, you know, dried up old bitch.
[01:03:35]  No children yep, no family.
[01:03:39]  You know the decline of the girl.
[01:03:41]  Boss, say it from your chest, baby.
[01:03:44]  So what's gonna happen?
[01:03:45]  Is this lady gonna die or what?
[01:03:48]  Well, that's the I don't know million dollar question, right?
[01:03:52]  I mean, look Long time true, and on, listeners will know that we, I think it was our first episode when we were talking with a friend of the pod, Matthew Christman.
[01:04:07]  We said, dang, it would be so crazy.
[01:04:10]  They're not actually going to kill him.
[01:04:12]  Yeah.
[01:04:12]  There's no way.
[01:04:14]  And lo and behold, killed himself.
[01:04:19]  Yeah, he dead.
[01:04:20]  He's been dead.
[01:04:21]  Now, will the same fate meet Ghillane?
[01:04:26]  I don't know.
[01:04:27]  I don't, you know, honestly, my tendency is to say no, because that would be a good idea.
[01:04:31]  No, that's my gut feeling.
[01:04:33]  I think if I were anybody who might not want her to talk, I would make her catatonic, basically.
[01:04:40]  And that say she suffered from mental illness, mental breakthrough.
[01:04:43]  It's the Jack Ruby thing where you drive them insane.
[01:04:46]  And so their testimony makes zero sense and they discredit themselves.
[01:04:49]  Now, there's, we've got a bit of a, you know, there's another situation, which is, you know, my girl could get COVID.
[01:04:59]  That's true.
[01:05:00]  She, she is old as fuck and she could get COVID-19 in prison or in jail, excuse me.
[01:05:06]  That would be very convenient for a lot of people.
[01:05:08]  I could see there being a trial that's basically a show trial and she just pleads the fifth and we don't hear anything, but there's some kind of trial that happens.
[01:05:19]  I don't know.
[01:05:19]  I can see that.
[01:05:20]  You know what I mean?
[01:05:21]  Honestly, like today I've been trying to think of what's going to happen and I'm going to need a couple of days to see how things go.
[01:05:28]  Yeah, sure.
[01:05:29]  But this is a hot take reaction episode.
[01:05:31]  True, true.
[01:05:32]  I mean, fuck.
[01:05:33]  It could be that she was picked up basically as revenge by Strauss to stick the needle in Trump.
[01:05:39]  Another question.
[01:05:41]  Is there a Mrs. Tartaglione?
[01:06:03]  So, sirens winding down.
[01:06:05]  Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo.
[01:06:09]  That was, we haven't done an emergency episode for a long time.
[01:06:13]  I'm so happy that this happened when it did because we were going to record yesterday.
[01:06:21]  And it would have been bad if we put that episode out when everyone wanted a Gillene episode.
[01:06:25]  It would have been terrible.
[01:06:26]  I mean, we would have had to do this either way.
[01:06:29]  I am actually very, I'm looking forward to this because as people know, you know, a lot of the Epstein drip has dried up from a lot of places.
[01:06:39]  And this is basically opening the faucet.
[01:06:44]  The other faucet.
[01:06:45]  Drinking like a thirsty dog.
[01:06:46]  Yeah.
[01:06:48]  I know.
[01:06:48]  My first reaction this morning was like, I should go to New Hampshire.
[01:06:52]  But she's not even there yet.
[01:06:54]  She's not, she's she would be gone by the time I get there.
[01:06:57]  True, but I still, I don't know.
[01:06:59]  I want to see her.
[01:07:01]  I want to see her.
[01:07:03]  New York's right there, baby.
[01:07:04]  I know, but they won't do it in person.
[01:07:05]  It'll be a Zoom.
[01:07:07]  Oh, fuck.
[01:07:08]  You're right.
[01:07:09]  I know.
[01:07:09]  I got to end COVID so I can see her.
[01:07:12]  Yes.
[01:07:12]  Because I can talk to her.
[01:07:14]  I can solve this.
[01:07:17]  I think you could break her.
[01:07:19]  I can easily.
[01:07:21]  But she's old.
[01:07:23]  Just like all right.
[01:07:28]  We got to get this out to the people.
[01:07:29]  All right.
[01:07:30]  Let's shout her down.
[01:07:32]  Okay.
[01:07:32]  My name is Brace.
[01:07:34]  I'm Liz.
[01:07:35]  And we got producer Young Chopsky.
[01:07:37]  Give him a goodbye, Liz.
[01:07:39]  Bye-bye.