True Anon Truth Feed - Episode 39: Based and Fedpilled Aired: 2020-02-02 Duration: 01:13:36 === Why Melissa Jira Grant? (14:32) === [00:00:00] I wrote the white male rage sketch. [00:00:03] Oh, okay. [00:00:03] So I still haven't seen that. [00:00:05] I don't want to watch it. [00:00:06] Will you do it for me so I don't have to watch it? [00:00:07] I can't. [00:00:08] I fuck the girl that's in it. [00:00:10] Well, who's that? [00:00:11] Melissa Melissa Jira Grant. [00:00:16] The paid to have sex with her. [00:00:18] And so I can't watch it due to my cum-like behaviors with her. [00:00:28] Jesus, this is a free episode, dude. [00:00:31] That's what I was trying to say. [00:00:33] This tough money? [00:00:34] What a bunch of bullshit. [00:00:39] So we've reached a new era of Truanon. [00:00:42] We have? [00:00:42] What is it? [00:00:43] This is the era of the gun. [00:00:47] That's not always the era. [00:00:49] No, no, no, no. [00:00:50] See, prior to recently, we've been locked, but we haven't been loaded. [00:00:56] Interesting. [00:00:56] I like this metaphor. [00:00:58] And now, now we're ready to rock. [00:01:01] We are. [00:01:03] We should say. [00:01:05] We got a bunch of stuff to say. [00:01:06] Yeah, we got a bunch of stuff to say. [00:01:07] But before we say a bunch of stuff that we know we're going to say, I'm going to say something you don't know I'm going to say. [00:01:13] I do. [00:01:14] I can read the female mind. [00:01:17] No, you're from Mars. [00:01:18] I'm from Venus. [00:01:19] Yes. [00:01:19] That's like our show on the Hill. [00:01:21] You know what? [00:01:22] The Hill? [00:01:23] Maybe Chef Truanon show. [00:01:24] You know what? [00:01:25] Here's the thing. [00:01:26] The Hill. [00:01:27] We're the mountain. [00:01:28] And I mean that like we're the Montanards, the tribe from the hinterlands of Vietnam. [00:01:33] I've never watched. [00:01:34] Assisted the Vietnamese, or excuse me, the U.S. in the Vietnam War. [00:01:37] Yes. [00:01:38] I'm sure it's fine. [00:01:39] The Hill? [00:01:40] Do people watch internet TV? [00:01:41] Who the fuck is watching the Hill TV? [00:01:43] If you're watching The Hill TV, you're a fucking pervert. [00:01:46] Here's what you should be doing. [00:01:47] here's what you should be doing, and then going out and finding... [00:01:52] You remember the DC Sniper? [00:01:53] Okay. [00:01:54] Okay, okay. [00:01:55] Parody. Parody. [00:02:19] Guys like that and arresting them. [00:02:20] That was a scary time. [00:02:22] What was up with that guy? [00:02:24] I don't remember, but you know what? [00:02:26] It was Clint Eastwood. [00:02:27] He was like a guy in his son. [00:02:28] Let's make that movie. [00:02:29] Clint Eastwood? [00:02:30] Oh, he should make the DC. [00:02:31] I still really want to see the Atlanta bombing movie. [00:02:34] You didn't see Richard Jewel? [00:02:35] No, it was just more of like a part of my personality, but I never saw it. [00:02:39] I asked you if you wanted to go on a date today, and you told me you'd already seen it. [00:02:44] And that you weren't hungry and had to wash your hair. [00:02:47] This is nice to see Embrace Jewel. [00:02:49] Yeah. [00:02:50] Ooh, that's true. [00:02:51] You are seeing me, Jewel, right now. [00:02:52] Liz Jeweled last night, actually. [00:02:54] I don't want to, we shouldn't, I shouldn't reveal too much. [00:02:57] Don't tell, um. [00:02:58] Our listeners my secrets. [00:03:00] No. [00:03:01] So, well, let's introduce ourselves. [00:03:04] Hello, I'm Liz. [00:03:05] My name, as Liz was saying, is Dick or Richard Jewell. [00:03:12] And we are joined by producer Young Chomsky. [00:03:15] And, well, we're back. [00:03:16] We're fresh back from the rock. [00:03:18] We're fresh from L.A. We've been hitting the tour pretty hard. [00:03:21] Have you ever read the Led Zeppelin book, Hammer of the Gods? [00:03:24] Absolutely not. [00:03:25] Oh, my God. [00:03:26] Well, there's a certain scene up there where, listen, we had a great time in L.A. Wait, what is it? [00:03:32] I'm not going to tell you what that's referencing. [00:03:34] It's a, let's say, amphibian penetration. [00:03:39] Ew, I don't care. [00:03:40] Yeah. [00:03:41] We did have a good time in LA. [00:03:42] We met some really cool people that are probably listening right now. [00:03:46] So we want to say hello. [00:03:47] Yes. [00:03:48] And thank you all for coming. [00:03:49] We had so much fun. [00:03:52] Would love to do it again. [00:03:54] We'll see. [00:03:55] Yeah, one thing I want to say, though, is that I think it's like it's rude to come up to me and say that I'm the most handsome man you've ever met and then you want to have sex with me. [00:04:06] Absolute fake name. [00:04:07] Without first showing me your card that says you're a model. [00:04:12] I don't get why you would do that, but maybe it's an LA thing. [00:04:16] You know, Brace really enjoyed LA. [00:04:18] I had a great time that you were loving life. [00:04:21] I was loving it. [00:04:22] I'll tell you that. [00:04:23] Because you know why? [00:04:24] I have no idea where he was at any given time. [00:04:25] At any point. [00:04:26] No, I was horrified. [00:04:28] And I was, I literally carried a gum with me about three quarters of the time that I was there. [00:04:32] Yeah. [00:04:32] I saw it. [00:04:33] I mean, I saw its little case. [00:04:34] Yeah. [00:04:35] So it was, it's, that's my therapist told me to. [00:04:38] So I'm just, I'm just doing it now. [00:04:41] Just parody. [00:04:43] But it's, yeah, I had a one. [00:04:45] It's crazy down there. [00:04:47] He loved it. [00:04:48] I love LA. [00:04:49] You know, I love LA. [00:04:50] You've been down there much more than I have. [00:04:52] I've only, I've literally never lived 20 miles further away. [00:04:57] Actually, when I was a little kid, I did. [00:04:59] I lived like an hour north. [00:05:00] But I've lived here my entire life. [00:05:03] I've walked every street in this city a thousand times. [00:05:07] I've glimpsed into every face that can be glimpsed into, which does not include the fucking soulless Cretans that walk around this place and go to their fancy bowling alleys, etc. [00:05:17] All my friends have basically been pogrommed out of existence. [00:05:21] I am, I am, I stand alone here in San Francisco like a pillar of shit. [00:05:28] And it sucks here. [00:05:29] We should move to LA. [00:05:30] Yeah, Hollywood, give old Brace Belden a call. [00:05:34] He's the Jake. [00:05:35] He'll pick up. [00:05:36] Jake Joe and all. [00:05:37] Remember those articles that came out that it was like, Brace says you're a bitch. [00:05:41] I was saying that like a female dog, which I love. [00:05:46] There were articles, Liz. [00:05:47] Okay. [00:05:48] Wait, really? [00:05:48] Yes. [00:05:49] I didn't say bitch in them, but I was like, what the fuck is this? [00:05:53] What happened to the movie? [00:05:54] I don't know. [00:05:55] I hope it gets made now. [00:05:58] Change my mind. [00:05:59] I don't want to get involved in it, but that'd be funny. [00:06:01] Yeah, he saw Richard Jewel and was like, you know. [00:06:05] So, yeah, he did a bang-up job with that one. [00:06:07] So, check this out. [00:06:09] So, all right. [00:06:11] So, you know, listeners out there, are you familiar with bras? [00:06:16] I think a lot of them actually don't know how they work. [00:06:19] No. [00:06:19] So, all right, fellas, let me tell you this. [00:06:21] Get a bra, put it on a dummy, learn how to unhook it with one hand. [00:06:24] Chicks do love that. [00:06:25] That's like the level one move where you learn when you're 14, how to undo a bra with one hand. [00:06:30] And girls are impressed to that. [00:06:31] But until like age 16 or 17. [00:06:35] I am 16 or 17. [00:06:36] Okay. [00:06:39] Oh, wait. [00:06:40] No. [00:06:41] Well, so imagine, imagine. [00:06:44] Imagine this. [00:06:45] Imagine a world in which bras and were encasing titties and underwear was sheathing the poo nanny. [00:06:57] And imagine there was a company, a mega corporation that controlled every aspect of our lives named Victoria's Secret. [00:07:06] Victoria's Secret. [00:07:07] It's that she's a CIA cutout. [00:07:09] Yes, well, yes. [00:07:11] So, all right, for the long time listening to the show, you might remember former friend of the show, former third Mike, Leslie Wexner, the goblin king of New Albany. [00:07:20] I don't mean that in an anti-Semitic way. [00:07:21] The goblin king of New Albany, Ohio, is in rumors and he might be stepping down as the L-brand CEO. [00:07:29] Yeah, it seems it kind of makes me sad. [00:07:33] Well, for those of you who did not start listening to us with episode one, let's explain who Leslie, by the way, I know this is going to come as a shock to you. [00:07:41] Leslie's a dude. [00:07:43] Leslie is a male's name in this case. [00:07:46] Yeah, so Leslie Wexner, owner of L-Brands, again, one of its companies that it owns is Victoria's Secret. [00:07:54] And we're not going to get too deep into him, but he, you know, he's Epstein's financial backer. [00:08:01] Yeah, he's for many years. [00:08:03] So check this out. [00:08:04] Whenever I go to my financial guy, imagine this. [00:08:07] Imagine you're like, hey, buddy, I need you to do my finances for me. [00:08:11] I'm going to give you power of attorney, but also all my money. [00:08:15] And you have the ability to spend that money, to hire people for my companies, to make acquisitions, and do basically, I feel like at one point, all of Wexner's money was just Epstein's money. [00:08:26] Yeah. [00:08:27] And because, I mean, for those of you who are not entirely familiar with this biography, after leaving Bear Stearns, Mr. Epstein gets wrapped up in the silken embrace of Leslie Wexner and becomes entangled with him for quite a long time. [00:08:48] Yes. [00:08:49] There are, should we say the rumor? [00:08:52] I don't know. [00:08:53] I literally was thinking that as you were talking, which is why I like to say, do they like don't say the rumor? [00:08:58] My thoughts? [00:08:59] No, the your thoughts saying no, the person who told us the rumor. [00:09:03] I don't know. [00:09:04] I can't remember. [00:09:04] I've seen multiple people. [00:09:05] I know. [00:09:06] And I was also just thinking, before we get to that rumor, I was just thinking about how like New Albany is like fake town. [00:09:14] Yeah, New Albany is like, it is a Potempkin city. [00:09:17] Yeah, like he just created it for himself. [00:09:19] Yeah. [00:09:20] And by the way, Leslie, if you're listening, I'll see you there pretty soon. [00:09:24] I'm coming to New Albany. [00:09:26] Okay, spoiler alert. [00:09:27] But also, no, we haven't decided on anything yet. [00:09:30] Well, not we're not announced. [00:09:31] Okay. [00:09:31] Well, I might just might roll out there. [00:09:34] No, first of all, duo, not an uno. [00:09:36] Well, yes, but hey, no bueno on you X naying my plans. [00:09:44] I'm just translating to pig like now to a little bit. [00:09:48] Okay, so there is a lot of weird stuff with Leslie Wexner. [00:09:52] There is, yes. [00:09:53] So he's saying that he's going to step down. [00:09:55] Victoria's Secret famously, you know, has been not doing so well. [00:10:00] No, I mean, so they are, they are, I mean, there was a downturn in Victoria's Secret since even before the Epstein explosion. [00:10:07] I don't think any of it has to do with Epstein. [00:10:09] Yeah. [00:10:09] I'm not so sure. [00:10:11] So Victoria's Secret stuff, I don't necessarily think so. [00:10:14] But his departure, I think combined with Victoria's Secret, or his, the Epstein connection combined, I think, with the Victoria's Secret downturn, because there was also a very funny note from a investor, a activist investor, which is a fucking lamest combination of two things. [00:10:33] What does that even mean? [00:10:34] It means, well, I'll tell you what it means. [00:10:36] The investor was like, you know, listen, we need some actually bigger titties on bigger bodies to be a Victoria. [00:10:43] They were like, we need to woke up. [00:10:44] Oh, right, right. [00:10:45] Woke it, but like, do it like everybody. [00:10:47] Right. [00:10:47] And Wexner was like, no, no. [00:10:49] Yeah, that was a big story. [00:10:51] They were like, absolutely not. [00:10:53] Yeah. [00:10:54] They are Victoria's Secret Angels, not Victoria's Secret Devils. [00:10:57] I'm not saying that, by the way. [00:10:58] I think you're all beautiful. [00:11:01] And they X-Nade that, but I think that kind of is like the industry trend right now is to have like this all... [00:11:06] It is a big trend. [00:11:07] But, you know, it's funny because I actually know someone who worked pretty high up at Victoria's Secret. [00:11:13] Really? [00:11:14] What's she? [00:11:15] I'm not going to say, but I will say that from what I understand is that company is like, I mean, it's like a very well-oiled machine. [00:11:23] So like really like creatively in terms of like, I mean, it's not surprising that they would not change or go in any new direction because everything is like very controlled, very like systematic. [00:11:39] You know, all of their, you know, their headquarters are in Ohio, obviously. [00:11:43] All of the creative is done in New York. [00:11:45] It's like a very big operation. [00:11:47] But I think more and their troubles have less to do with like, you know, going along with woke, new wokeness or whatever, and more to do with that retail is just collapsing in the United States. [00:12:01] And, you know, Victory's Secret basically, I mean, it's like every mall. [00:12:06] Malls are closing. [00:12:07] No one's shopping. [00:12:09] It's all online, which is, it's a whole new beast. [00:12:12] And then the rise, you know, when you talk about fashion companies too, you have, it would be, you know, we would be remiss if we didn't mention the rise of fast fashion. [00:12:21] Yes, we would. [00:12:22] So, you know, yeah. [00:12:24] So, um, you know, is that Zara? [00:12:28] Yeah, Zara, H ⁇ M, Forever 21. [00:12:30] Yeah, you guys are both like looking at me right now with contempt. [00:12:34] No, I know. [00:12:34] I mean, it's true. [00:12:35] I mean, you know, why would a girl, I'm saying girl because I don't think, you know, whatever. [00:12:41] Anyway, why would a young girl spend, I mean, I don't know what Victory's Secret costs, I think. [00:12:46] Like, some of their bras are like $60. [00:12:48] Okay. [00:12:49] $65. [00:12:49] It'd be super expensive when they could get like trendier or like just as trendy pieces at Forever 21 for literally $3. [00:13:00] Really? [00:13:01] Yeah. [00:13:01] I mean, that shit is cheap. [00:13:03] That's why they, you know, use, you know. [00:13:05] Slave labor. [00:13:06] Yeah, child slave labor. [00:13:08] Yeah. [00:13:08] Well, so that, that, it seems like, because they're talking about, because he also. [00:13:13] That's why they also keep iPhones so cheap. [00:13:15] Oh, wait. [00:13:16] Yeah. [00:13:17] So they also, oh, well, coronavirus is about to put an end to that. [00:13:21] But it's the one virus that Mac gets. [00:13:24] Wow. [00:13:25] Wow, Liz. [00:13:26] That was good. [00:13:27] Thank you. [00:13:28] I wish I had said Apple instead of Mac. [00:13:30] Yeah, that's all right. [00:13:31] Just came out too fast. [00:13:32] No, it's a Mac. [00:13:37] But yeah, so El Brands is, he is, he is, might be he might be stepping away from the, from the company. [00:13:43] A couple funny things about Leslie Wexner. [00:13:45] Now, Leslie Wexner's whole house in New Albany, his mansion which, by the way, is guarded by armed security like real armed security with rifles, not like pistols, like the guy, the bozos, that guard my house it is wired up every room with cameras a la Jeffrey Epstein. [00:14:04] Yeah, there is some pretty, there's some pretty weird stuff about Wexner's background. [00:14:09] We're gonna do a whole episode in hopefully, the relatively near or mid future. [00:14:15] But Wexner has some very strange connections to the political intelligence world, etc. [00:14:21] At one point owned the airlines that was sort of the descendant of Air America, the famous airline that smuggled heroin, which rocks. === Strange Connections (15:26) === [00:14:32] But from Southeast Asia to Europe where it was refined and then forced into black communities here and other communities as well. [00:14:42] But yeah, Leslie Wexner is donkey piece of shit. [00:14:47] And Jeffrey Epstein, speaking of Victoria's Secret, Jeffrey Epstein, there's a bunch of these stories that came out that he would actually pose as a talent scout for Vicky Seeks in New York, and he would just like girl after girl after girl after girl coming in. [00:15:04] One girl though hit him with a dildo, which I thought was really resourceful. [00:15:09] And like much respect. [00:15:11] Come on, the lady who hit Jeffrey Epstein with a dildo. [00:15:14] Please come on True and Hot. [00:15:16] So speaking of dumbos. [00:15:18] Uh-huh. [00:15:20] What? [00:15:20] We're going to talk about the elephant in the room? [00:15:22] Why you're so cruel to me? [00:15:23] No. [00:15:24] Okay. [00:15:24] I'm so nice. [00:15:26] What's the Dumbo? [00:15:27] Prince Andrew. [00:15:28] Prince Dumbo. [00:15:30] Yes. [00:15:32] He's back in the news. [00:15:33] He won't leave. [00:15:34] So you know how, yeah, he's sweating the FBI. [00:15:39] Yeah, so the FBI is like, what? [00:15:41] They're saying, we want to talk to you. [00:15:42] And he's like, nice, dry, losers. [00:15:45] Yeah, basically. [00:15:46] He's dodging their calls. [00:15:48] He's not calling them back. [00:15:50] Damn. [00:15:51] Yeah, he is saying that, or basically a news story came out that the feds were trying to contact him and that he refuses to cooperate. [00:16:00] He has also said that he's going to maybe bounce to Thailand. [00:16:05] Yes. [00:16:05] So Thailand is a sort of place where you go where you definitely don't want to have sex with children. [00:16:11] Yeah, it is. [00:16:12] Dude, if I was under investigation for sex crimes, I wouldn't go to the one place where every British man of a certain age goes to commit sex crimes. [00:16:23] I've heard, I've never been to Thailand, but I have heard that if you go to like Pattaya, which I think is a city with a lot of prostitution, that like literally every other person you see is like a, what do they call him? [00:16:34] Gammon? [00:16:35] It's like a fat British or Australian guy. [00:16:39] There was just a big story in, I think it was the Guardian. [00:16:42] Yeah. [00:16:42] It could have been one of the tabloids though. [00:16:45] Well, that was like photos. [00:16:47] I think it was in Thailand. [00:16:49] Of who? [00:16:50] Of like old British men like holding children that are, or maybe it's in Africa, actually. [00:16:56] I wouldn't be surprised. [00:16:57] I mean, like, like that basically like parents like rent their kids out to these British tourists. [00:17:04] Yeah, I mean, it's like... [00:17:05] It's horrifying. [00:17:06] We're going to talk about like weird neocolonialism shit. [00:17:08] I mean, it's like literally taking their children. [00:17:12] Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:17:14] Yeah. [00:17:15] Like, sex tourism is like a same with the Philippines. [00:17:19] It's just like a giant industry in some of these places. [00:17:21] What is wrong with you people? [00:17:22] And by you people, I mean men. [00:17:24] Yeah. [00:17:25] I mean, yeah, I gotta be real. [00:17:26] Not a lot of women, I think, doing this. [00:17:28] It is fucking sickening. [00:17:30] And like, it is. [00:17:31] Just get laid normal way. [00:17:33] It should just be, I don't think they can or want to. [00:17:36] I think, but there should be. [00:17:38] And I don't want to be like one of these guys that's like kill pedophiles, but I'm like, because that's probably, I can't say that on podcast. [00:17:43] But it's, hold on. [00:17:45] You know, Chomsky, hit me with a chick chick. [00:17:47] Okay. [00:17:49] You make the sound. [00:17:53] Never get one. [00:17:54] But you can do one. [00:17:56] Really? [00:17:57] Yeah. [00:17:58] Oh, that was good. [00:18:01] But you have your catchphrase. [00:18:03] I got lots. [00:18:04] Yeah, yeah, true. [00:18:27] But yeah, Prince Andrew is... [00:18:29] Is... [00:18:30] Uh... [00:18:31] There are two cases actually against or involving Prince Andrew. [00:18:36] One is a civil case and then one is from the girls. [00:18:42] And then one is an FBI case. [00:18:45] And he is able to dodge both. [00:18:48] I think maybe this is revenge. [00:18:49] Remember when our like one of the consulate guys' wife just like killed that guy on a British road when she was drunk and then just like Liz do a whistle out of the country? [00:19:00] Yeah. [00:19:01] Maybe it's revenge for that. [00:19:03] Well, we know he's not sweating. [00:19:06] No. [00:19:08] He's doing quite fine. [00:19:09] You know, someone else, Epstein-related, is dodging some litigious papers. [00:19:17] Ooh. [00:19:18] That's right. [00:19:19] Crooked Hillary, baby. [00:19:21] She's back in the news. [00:19:22] Yes. [00:19:22] But in this way, the way that I like, which is based Tulsi Gabbard is suing Tulsi Clinton. [00:19:32] Tulsi Clinton. [00:19:33] Wow. [00:19:34] Wow. [00:19:34] It's me that's doing that. [00:19:37] No. [00:19:37] Tulsi Gabbard is suing Hillary Clinton for defamation. [00:19:42] Yes, she is. [00:19:43] For $50 million. [00:19:45] There's a financial. [00:19:46] Yes. [00:19:47] Fiscal compensation. [00:19:49] I love it. [00:19:50] That is. [00:19:50] So I have not read. [00:19:51] That's how the Hawaiian people are going to get their money. [00:19:54] Yes. [00:19:54] Yeah. [00:19:55] By the way, they do need full monarchial sovereignty. [00:19:58] Sovereignty? [00:19:59] Sovereignty. [00:20:00] Sovereignty. [00:20:00] Monarchial sovereignty back in the Hawaiian Islands. [00:20:04] But yeah, so she was dodging a subpoena. [00:20:08] That is classic. [00:20:11] Twice she dodged it. [00:20:12] Yeah. [00:20:13] You know, I was talking last night to some. [00:20:15] Who the fuck was I talking to? [00:20:16] When was the night? [00:20:17] I don't know who the hell I was talking to. [00:20:18] I don't know what I did last night. [00:20:20] Oh, yeah. [00:20:21] I was talking to you about this last night. [00:20:22] I would be a great process server. [00:20:25] You were talking about that. [00:20:26] You would be good. [00:20:27] I would be so good. [00:20:28] You would just pop out of nowhere. [00:20:30] I'd be like, listen, well, here's what I would do. [00:20:32] I would match my footsteps to hers. [00:20:34] On a dark night, I would walk down the street behind her and she would get freaked out. [00:20:39] And usually what I do, and I'm serious about this in real life, I actually cross the street if I'm walking behind a woman at the night because I don't want them to get freaked out. [00:20:46] In Hillary Clinton's case, I would walk closer and then I'd hand her the papers. [00:20:51] Yeah, she is, she is, Tulsi, if you want to come onto the show to discuss your lawsuit. [00:20:56] Oh my God, I love it. [00:20:57] Love, love to do some squats with you. [00:21:01] Young Chomsky's very into fitness. [00:21:03] He could lift you likely. [00:21:04] I'm not sure what fitness people do. [00:21:06] I just do the, yeah, I would love to. [00:21:09] Did you, I think I sent you some of the, like, the, did you read through the lawsuit? [00:21:15] No, I didn't. [00:21:16] He didn't send it to me. [00:21:17] There's some like real good digs. [00:21:19] Tulsi loves her digs. [00:21:21] Yeah, she does love to digs. [00:21:22] Yeah, so $50 million defamation suit because Hillary Clinton called her a Russian asset. [00:21:26] It is fucked up to call her a Russian asset. [00:21:28] Yeah, no shit. [00:21:29] She should be suing. [00:21:30] She's suing it. [00:21:31] She's literally an American asset. [00:21:33] She's in the U.S. fucking army, which, by the way, weird. [00:21:39] Okay, but also, get this. [00:21:42] Yeah. [00:21:42] What if Tulsi fucking locks her up? [00:21:46] Oh. [00:21:47] Yeah, all these people are going to have to go back on, you know, all their... [00:21:51] Well, I don't like Tulsihan. [00:21:52] I like Liz Beth Lauren. [00:21:54] Okay. [00:21:54] Yeah. [00:21:55] You suck. [00:21:56] No, it could only be one woman. [00:21:57] Me. [00:21:58] Yeah, Liz Franzan. [00:22:01] So we have today, we have joining us a reporter. [00:22:06] One of, you know, here at Truanon, not great. [00:22:09] You know, we are private investigators. [00:22:11] Well, public investigators. [00:22:13] We are not reporters, but we do correspond with some of them. [00:22:17] And we have a hell of an interview today about a pretty wild news story. [00:22:24] It is about the base. [00:22:26] And so some of you might, we'll talk about this in the interview, but like, you know, you might have recalled some news stories recently about three guys who got arrested. [00:22:35] There was people who were planning on shooting up that gun rally to create a disturbance. [00:22:39] You know, right-wing people planning on doing this. [00:22:42] And they belong to an organization called The Base. [00:22:44] Yeah, yeah. [00:22:44] So to be clear, The Base, meaning it's a neo-Nazi group. [00:22:48] It's similar to Adam Wolfen, but we'll get into it more in the interview. [00:22:52] But there was an explosive piece in The Guardian last week that basically, I mean, speculates on the identity of the leader. [00:23:05] Speculation being, is the leader of one of the largest neo-Nazi organizations in the United States a federal agent? [00:23:12] And while we cannot say for sure, there is some pretty wild stuff. [00:23:17] And I think that, you know, we talk about it in the interview, but we really want to make it clear. [00:23:21] First of all, the base is the English translation of Al-Qaeda. [00:23:25] It's very weird. [00:23:26] There's also an anarchist group named The Base in New York, but I've met those guys. [00:23:30] They seem all right. [00:23:31] English ginger name. [00:23:32] Yeah, it should change the name. [00:23:34] But Al-Qaeda, another CIA-created organization. [00:23:37] Yeah. [00:23:38] But it is crazy to think about. [00:23:43] So because from background of those, for those of you who are not super familiar with this stuff, a couple definitions. [00:23:50] First of all, honeypot. [00:23:53] Honeypot is, there's a lot of different ways to do a honeypot, but basically attracting people via like false promotion. [00:24:01] Like if I was like, hey, I'm opening up a criminal gang and I was a cop and I started a gang and I got a bunch of people to join my gang and we did maybe some crimes together, but I was doing it to get information on all of them or to eventually arrest them. [00:24:17] That would be a little bit of a honeypot. [00:24:18] Honeypot's also, when you have sex with a super hot chick. [00:24:20] Yeah, I was going to say. [00:24:22] Or it's something like Jeffrey Epstein was doing. [00:24:24] Exactly. [00:24:24] So we use that term a lot when we're talking about or speculating on what Epstein was up to with his intelligence ties, all of the blackmail tapes that he was in possession of, like we mentioned with Wexner, all the cameras as a way of kind of gathering information and holding like basically blackmail over people's heads, powerful people's heads. [00:24:48] But it's also like, like you say, a way of kind of like entrapping possible neo-Nazis in this case. [00:24:56] Yeah, yeah. [00:24:56] And by the way, if I ever get arrested for anything I say on this podcast, it was also entrapment because you shouldn't let me have a podcast. [00:25:04] But yeah, it's so the Nazi movement is, if you're a Nazi, there is a literal like 65% chance, 75% chance that you are a fed. [00:25:14] One of the most famous Nazis, the famous crying Nazi, Christopher Cantwell, of course, himself, he turned out to be a fed. [00:25:22] We talk about some more agents in this, but there are both agents and informants, and they are littering these places. [00:25:28] And it really exploded after the Unite the Right rally in 2017. [00:25:32] In Charlottesville. [00:25:33] In Charlottesville. [00:25:34] Yeah. [00:25:34] Because, and one thing we want to make clear, do not think they are just doing this to the extreme right. [00:25:42] Yeah, we didn't really get into that in the interview, but it should, yeah. [00:25:47] I have a lot of questions about maybe some far, you know, infiltration in far left. [00:25:54] Yeah. [00:25:55] Like aka Antifa. [00:25:56] I mean, there is a broad, like, or excuse me, a big history. [00:26:02] That's an even worse word to use right there. [00:26:05] There's a long history of this stuff in America. [00:26:08] I mean, from the Red Scare stuff, then the second Red Scare stuff, then the McCarthy era. [00:26:13] And then finally, they really perfected in COINTELPR, where there was, I mean, there was agents in every group. [00:26:20] And in fact, one of the guys, I mean, Black Panthers, all those guys are basically set up at one point or another by federal agents. [00:26:28] Fred Hampton, you know, he was an informant who told the police when he would be at his house, what his movements were. [00:26:34] And in fact, the guy who used to get- I mean, they shot MLK. [00:26:37] Yeah. [00:26:37] Yeah. [00:26:38] Yes, they shot MLK. [00:26:39] Absolutely. [00:26:40] I mean, they shot JFK. [00:26:42] Yeah. [00:26:42] And RFK. [00:26:43] All the K's. [00:26:44] All the K's. [00:26:45] The three K's. [00:26:48] Okay. [00:26:48] Reel that one back. [00:26:50] I know Evans here. [00:26:51] Come on. [00:26:53] So, yeah, I just want to be like, so with that kind of stuff in mind, like, you listen to this interview and listen to what he is describing, the operation they're describing here, and really, like, try to think about this stuff when you encounter certain groups. [00:27:10] I mean, there's, of course, a lot of talk about that Red Guards, Austin, Bullshit. [00:27:14] I mean, they're obviously class. [00:27:14] I mean, they're fucking clearly feds. [00:27:18] And if you think, like, oh, well, they can't be. [00:27:20] They're two-hand-handed or they can't be. [00:27:21] They use the right phrases. [00:27:22] I mean, the feds set up a fucking phony Maoist group in the 60s that, like, you can read their stuff. [00:27:28] I think it was like Committee for Anti-Revisionism or something. [00:27:31] I don't know. [00:27:32] There's a recent new book about it. [00:27:34] I can't fucking remember the name of. [00:27:35] It's an interview with the guys in Jacobin. [00:27:37] You can Google it, look it up. [00:27:39] But this stuff has a long and diverse history. [00:27:41] And think about it in the present. [00:27:44] So without further ado, here's our interview with Jason Woodson. [00:28:05] Okay, welcome to the main event. [00:28:08] We have with us today Jason Wilson, a journalist for The Guardian focusing on extremism. [00:28:16] And we are talking base federal informants, the Pacific Northwest, etc. [00:28:23] How you doing, Jason? [00:28:24] I'm really well. [00:28:25] Thanks for having me on. [00:28:26] Are you talking to us live from the Northwest Territorial Imperative? [00:28:31] Yeah, I am. [00:28:33] I mean, you know, that has less play in Portland than in other parts of the country. [00:28:39] Yeah, okay, yeah. [00:28:41] But yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:28:43] I have a territorial imperative for sure. [00:28:45] No. [00:28:46] Yeah. [00:28:47] So you recently wrote a pretty good article, like a pretty crazy article about the base. [00:28:52] And I don't even really know where to begin with that, but I guess we can begin with what the hell they are. [00:29:00] What is the base? [00:29:02] Yeah, well, that's the million dollar kind of question, I guess. [00:29:08] We can start with the basics. [00:29:10] They are a neo-Nazi network. [00:29:15] Their ideology is usually described as accelerationism. [00:29:21] So, you know, like a lot of neo-Nazi groups, they believe that Western liberal democracies are decadent and depraved and degenerate and they're going to collapse eventually. [00:29:32] But the accelerationist bit, to cut a long story short, is that perhaps with well-placed acts of terror or murder, that that process could be hurried along. [00:29:45] So officially, to the outside world, they were saying that they were just prepping for collapse, but internally they were talking about ways to commit acts of terror that could make that happen more quickly. === Hints of Omega (15:16) === [00:29:59] So they started this guy who called himself Norman Spear and then Roman Wolf, who it turns out is a guy called Ronaldo Nazaro. [00:30:10] He kind of came out of nowhere in late 2017. [00:30:13] He started popping up on social media. [00:30:17] And initially he was presenting himself as an organizer for the Northwest Front, which is a group that thinks that the Pacific Northwest should be a white ethno-state and that they can make that happen. [00:30:30] And then eventually he started this group called the BASE kind of midway, mid to late 2018, it started happening. [00:30:37] And then, yeah, it kind of ran for almost two years. [00:30:44] You know, the main life of the group was online, encrypted messaging chats, and they settled on WIRE. [00:30:50] So mostly it was on an application called Wire. [00:30:52] You may or may not know. [00:30:54] But yeah, and they were kind of drawing in neo-Nazis from all over the country, organizing them into cells, having meetups, having training meetups, killing goats, doing all kinds of stuff. [00:31:16] And that was their point of view. [00:31:16] One of their points of difference was that this is a group that meets up in person. [00:31:22] And so they did have cell-level meetups, they had national meetups where they would do combat training and make propaganda videos. [00:31:30] Yeah, I've seen those. [00:31:31] And their other point of difference, I guess, was that they allowed multiple patching. [00:31:36] So there was a fair bit of overlap between the base and the other groups that their members were. [00:31:42] It's like a dual carding sort of thing where you're like, you belong to more than one organization. [00:31:48] Right. [00:31:48] And so, you know, a number of members were members of Adam Watton Division, which is another acceleration group. [00:31:55] But there were groups, I mean, they would sort of take on smaller groups wholesale. [00:32:02] You know, I need to report some of this out, but I can say that definitely there were smaller, newer neo-Nazi groups that just kind of like joined the entirety of the membership joined the base. [00:32:16] Oh, wow. [00:32:18] So, yeah, I mean, it was kind of like a perfect mechanism, if you like, to Draw together a really wide spectrum of militant, active neo-Nazis throughout the country, throughout the world. [00:32:34] I mean, there are chapters in most Western European countries, and there are chapters, there's a chapter in Australia. [00:32:44] So it's an international network. [00:32:46] And of course, the boss, it turns out, was living in Russia for the entirety of the base's life, pretty much. [00:32:55] Yeah, and so, like, I want to talk about him definitely, talk about him more in just a second. [00:33:00] But, like, so from what I understand, the base, unlike Adam Waffen, the base hasn't technically killed anybody yet, right? [00:33:10] Or they haven't, like, as the base murdered anybody. [00:33:13] But they have no, no, that's true. [00:33:16] No, that is true. [00:33:18] I mean, three guys in Georgia got pulled in a couple of weeks back for a conspiracy to murder. [00:33:25] So they had developed a fairly elaborate plan, according to affidavits from the FBI and prosecutors. [00:33:36] They had put together a fairly elaborate plan to murder a couple of people who they had identified as members of Atlanta Antifar. [00:33:46] It turns out that those people weren't actually members of Atlanta Antifar. [00:33:52] But anyway, I mean, we can come back to that. [00:33:54] Oh, they weren't even antifubbing. [00:33:57] Wait, what? [00:33:57] Yeah. [00:33:58] From what I understand, they had a plan, they scoped out their house and had a plan to go shoot them with revolvers, I think. [00:34:06] And to put Vaseline on their eyebrows, which I didn't know that was a thing you could do so that no dead skin would fall off. [00:34:13] Oh, interesting. [00:34:15] But yeah, Jason, explain a little more. [00:34:17] Well, yeah, I mean, I think it's a complicated situation. [00:34:22] I mean, these folks may have been involved with some kind of anti-fascist activism, but they were misidentified as members of Atlanta Antifar. [00:34:36] And these guys plotted to murder them. [00:34:37] I mean, I think, well, they got the idea that they were members from a notoriously sloppy dox list put out by a guy called Brad Griffin, who goes by Hunter Wallace, who's got a website called Occidental Dissent. [00:34:53] And he's a neo-Confederate member of the League of the South. [00:34:57] And he has been putting out doxes on leftists for a long time, but a lot of the time they're inaccurate. [00:35:04] So it seems like Atlanta Antifar anyway claims that that's the only place they could have gotten this idea. [00:35:12] But part of the reason they picked these people is that they were kind of close to where these guys were in North Georgia. [00:35:18] So there was a conspiracy to murder. [00:35:21] But yeah, there have not to date been actual murders committed by members of the base, to my knowledge. [00:35:29] Yeah, I mean, it's that's like that's kind of what makes me, and I'll talk about the suspicions more a little bit because that's what makes me suspicious. [00:35:37] I mean, I'm obviously suspicious of all these people because they're fucking neo-Nazis, but like about the base's origins as opposed to Adam Woffen's origins. [00:35:47] So like, you know, I'm going to ask you to explain a little to our listeners about Adam Waffen, but they are a very similar group in terms of especially style. [00:35:56] I think they both kind of claim lineage from the whole siege thing. [00:36:04] Yeah. [00:36:05] Adam Woffen killed, like, I think five people. [00:36:09] Yes. [00:36:10] Yeah. [00:36:11] That's right. [00:36:11] I mean, ideologically, I think that they're very similar. [00:36:16] That whole accelerationist idea is present in both. [00:36:21] You know, in terms of that siege culture stuff, you know, the skull masks and, you know, the kind of pretty slick propaganda videos, you know, with National Socialist Blackmail soundtracks and, you know, the reverence for James Mason, the author of Siege. [00:36:46] You know, definitely in the bases vetting interviews, that was one of the questions. [00:36:51] You know, have you read Siege? [00:36:52] Yeah. [00:36:54] So, yeah, I mean, they are similar, but, you know, Adam Woffen, you know, I guess arose more organically out of prior iterations, I suppose, in the growth of accelerationist neo-Nazism. [00:37:14] So they, like, Adam Woffen kind of arose from a bunch of guys who had been on previous neo-Nazi forums like Iron March. [00:37:24] And, you know, they kind of put it together on there. [00:37:27] This seems different. [00:37:29] You know, and the guys who started Adam Woffer were younger. [00:37:33] Yeah, yeah. [00:37:33] They seem like roommates and stuff. [00:37:36] Yeah, and overwhelmingly, I mean, the membership of these groups is young guys, guys who are 18, 19, 20, 21. [00:37:44] There's a lot of guys who are that kind of age. [00:37:49] But, you know, I mean, Ronaldo Nazaro, the guy who started the base, is 46. [00:37:56] You know, he has a long history of not publicly being a neo-Nazi. [00:38:02] You're right. [00:38:03] It's very strange. [00:38:04] And it's almost like, You know, he kind of, there was a different flavor in the sense that he really was into this the Butler plan, as it is sometimes called, that idea that the Pacific Northwest can be a white homeland. [00:38:24] And Adam Offen, you know, I'm not necessarily all about that, but really it's almost like sometimes you look at it and it's like, did this guy kind of reverse engineer Adam Offen? [00:38:37] Yeah, yeah, that's what's so strange. [00:38:40] I mean, yeah, I think you put it really well, whereas like Adam Offen has like a pretty, I mean, not clear and like an easily delineated, but it's, you know, a well-documented history, like online that you can read about. [00:38:53] And it's kind of been known and, you know, in its various iterations, like you point out, you know, very organically. [00:39:00] Whereas it seems like the base just kind of came out of nowhere. [00:39:05] Like in like relatively short time. [00:39:09] Yeah, certainly Nazaro kind of came out of nowhere. [00:39:13] As I understand it, he really had no presence, no history in any kind of part of the white nationalist movement, at least openly and publicly, before kind of the end of 2017. [00:39:29] And that's the other curious thing. [00:39:31] He sort of starts acting publicly almost immediately after Charlottesville. [00:39:41] Interesting. [00:39:42] It is. [00:39:43] Yeah. [00:39:44] He there are some hints, I think, in his history, but they're just hints for now. [00:39:52] And there's a lot of work to do in terms of confirming all of this. [00:39:55] But, you know, if you look at his company, he had a company that was billing itself as counter-terrorism, counter-intelligence, homeland security type contractor. [00:40:12] And it was called Omega Solutions International. [00:40:15] And, you know, Omega Solutions, Omega, Alpha Omega, Omega is the last or the final. [00:40:20] Is that a sort of coded reference to the final solution in the name of his company? [00:40:26] Maybe. [00:40:27] If you look at his logo, the visual logo that he trademarked, it kind of looks like maybe it's referring to Nazi era symbology as well. [00:40:41] It looks a little bit like an Iron Cross. [00:40:45] You know, I found the earliest photo of him that I could find was he went to Villanova in Pennsylvania, you know, the Catholic University in Pennsylvania. [00:40:55] And he just happened to get box popped as he was crossing the quad, I guess, one day. [00:41:01] And he got asked who the greatest woman in history was. [00:41:04] You know, that was the topic of the box pop. [00:41:06] Said Mary Magdalene because she's the closest disciple to Jesus. [00:41:10] Like, that's a weird thing for it. [00:41:13] That's a weird thing for a 20-year-old guy in 1994 to say that's a really weird thing to say. [00:41:19] So, you know, there are indications, I guess, that we need to fill out. [00:41:24] There needs to be a lot more work done. [00:41:25] You know, we need to talk to classmates. [00:41:28] We need to talk to relatives. [00:41:29] We need to talk to people who knew him. [00:41:32] But there are some clues and some hints that maybe he has had reactionary, at least, beliefs going back a really long way. [00:41:40] And some hints that maybe, you know, and this is slightly speculative, that maybe he was kind of signaling fascist beliefs at some point as well. [00:41:54] But yeah, I mean, he wasn't anywhere. [00:41:57] And as I understand it, his only vouch was from the Northwest Front people. [00:42:04] And like I said, he built himself as an organizer for the Northwest Front when he first appeared. [00:42:09] And the Northwest Front was run by Harold Covington, who died in 2018. [00:42:13] Interestingly, just as the base was starting, and he was a big Northwest Territorial imperative guy, but he was also widely suspected by other people in the white supremacist movement as being a fed as well. [00:42:29] So it's a very strange lineage, a very strange pedigree. [00:42:33] Yeah, basically, I feel like we've just been teasing it. [00:42:36] So I want to let the listeners know, like, basically, why your piece is so shocking is because it really is centered on trying to figure out who this guy is, kind of like how a leader of this movement can kind of basically emerge out of nowhere, like you say. [00:42:56] And, you know, basically, is he a fed? [00:43:02] I mean, I don't know for certain, but I got to say, the signs on this guy, because, you know, I get sucked into reading about these guys. [00:43:09] And I just read this book, The Beast Reawakens, which is about post-war Nazis, blah, blah, blah. [00:43:16] And of course, a lot of their connections to intelligence services, et cetera. [00:43:19] But the thing is, I've known about, I've read about the militia movement for years. [00:43:22] I mean, that thing is riddled with feds. [00:43:24] Yeah, especially in Idaho and elsewhere in the Pacific Northwest. [00:43:27] I don't know if Idaho counts as the Pacific Northwest, but they all like hanging out there. [00:43:30] It's right, Randy Weaver, I think. [00:43:32] Yeah, no, Idaho counts. [00:43:34] Yeah, we know that there was a Fed who got through the vetting process and got pretty close with the Georgia guys. [00:43:43] I mean, that's all in the court documents. [00:43:46] So there's at least one Fed who joined. [00:43:51] Yeah, and this guy's history is incredible. [00:43:57] You know, he's kind of roughly my age. [00:43:59] And so, you know, he's also roughly the age of a lot of people I know. [00:44:04] I've never seen anyone who has such a low profile online as this guy. [00:44:09] I've never known someone that age. [00:44:11] Like he, he really only appears, so there's those random things like the Villanova box pop. [00:44:18] Yep. [00:44:20] You know, he also went to a fancy Catholic school in New Jersey called the Del Barton School, it's called. [00:44:32] So it's kind of like, I guess, I don't know, a prep school kind of thing, very expensive. [00:44:36] And they left some donation records sitting around on the open web for some reason. [00:44:44] And he turned up in that. [00:44:47] But really, like, and then, you know, after Villanova and a local, the Philly Inquirer reported that he didn't actually finish at Villanova. [00:44:56] He didn't graduate. [00:44:57] So he got to his junior year. [00:44:59] After that, he turns up, he's mentioned as an editorial assistant for some books authored by guys who are right at the center of the military and strategic establishment. === Sincere Nazi Theory (11:34) === [00:45:15] Like he's cited an editorial assistant for a report produced by the National Defense University about Middle East strategy, you know, in 1998. [00:45:26] Really high-level stuff. [00:45:31] And then he disappears. [00:45:32] Like, there's really no record of him at all between about then, the late 90s, and kind of like pretty much 2009 when he starts his company, which is this sort of defense intelligence contractor. [00:45:49] So yeah, there's 10 years where he's just gone. [00:45:52] And, you know, we can only speculate about what he was doing there. [00:45:57] Yeah, we should speculate. [00:45:59] I think he's the CIA. [00:46:00] But here's the thing. [00:46:01] Like, how does, are you like, because I saw that this guy had purchased some property in the Pacific Northwest. [00:46:07] Like, how, do you have any indication how he has money or funding or anything? [00:46:13] I presume the base has some sort of funding mechanism, but like... [00:46:15] I can tell you this. [00:46:17] He bought a... [00:46:20] He bought an apartment in Washington, D.C. I'm just going to find the document here so I can give you the exact date, but I'll keep talking. [00:46:30] He bought a $675,000 apartment for cash. [00:46:34] No more than that. [00:46:35] In cash? [00:46:36] Oh, come on, man. [00:46:40] And so, like, yeah, I mean, that suggests he was making money somehow. [00:46:45] That was after he started the company. [00:46:46] But get this, I want to tell you what this one of this company was doing. [00:46:50] So he had a trademark for this thing called Watchtower. [00:46:58] So he had a trademark for this thing called Watchtower, which was described in the trade. [00:47:02] Were no patents unfortunately, but there was. [00:47:04] There was a trademark application, and so he had to include some materials, you know, with the trademark application, kind of just describing what this thing was, and basically it was like this computer system, um for carrying out surveillance and organizing um, organizing an intelligence operation using like social media data um, using like various forms of open source intelligence, online surveillance, like he. [00:47:34] That's what he was. [00:47:35] He was, he was selling basically yeah, he was selling this watchtower system um, so I don't know. [00:47:42] I mean, here's the thing, he had a cage code, which is what you need in order to get federal government contracts. [00:47:48] Yeah, so he was certainly intending to get U.s. [00:47:52] Government contracts. [00:47:54] There's no record, um of him actually getting any, but presumably, in this kind of space um, the contracts that you do get would be maybe classified. [00:48:05] So, you know um, it's it's very odd um, and so yeah, he kind of disappears for 10 years. [00:48:12] He comes back, certainly when he re-emerged in 2017, when he, when he was making videos and stuff for the for the um Northwest Front and going on a bunch of Nazi podcasts. [00:48:25] You know that the guys whose podcasts he was on were billing him as a former CIA field agent, so I don't know. [00:48:33] Anyway, you know, and they were having, because I mean, you know correct me if I'm wrong aren't the like Nazis are generally very paranoid about feds, because they've had a lot of feds in their movement. [00:48:47] I mean, it's like it's like that old joke about, like the Communist Party meetings in the 80s, like one. [00:48:52] You know, there's some meetings where every single person's a federal informant. [00:48:55] Maybe they just think CIA doesn't operate domestically. [00:48:57] Yeah, but like, did they? [00:48:59] Is that? [00:48:59] It's like, has there been, you know, because presumably this information, at least of that information, must have been self-supplied or something? [00:49:05] Have have there been? [00:49:06] You know there's a lot of backbiting on the far right. [00:49:09] I mean, they have, they are, they have something. [00:49:13] Yeah they they, they constantly fight, start new groups etc. [00:49:17] Have there been sort of whispers about this guy for a while? [00:49:19] Or is this like, is this information new? [00:49:22] Oh yeah yeah yeah, I mean people cited that that as a reason for leaving the base publicly. [00:49:28] I mean, I'm not even telling secrets here, the stuff publicly, where you know, the idea that he was a fed and the base was a hunting trap was almost a honeypot. [00:49:38] It was almost a cliche, you know like, you know that was something that sort of dogged him. [00:49:46] So I went to a custody hearing for a guy called Richard Tobin, who was the first member of the base arrested. [00:49:53] He was charged with, you know, conspiracy to deface a bunch of Synagogues in the Midwest. [00:50:03] He's in New Jersey. [00:50:06] He's currently in jail awaiting trial in Camden, New Jersey. [00:50:10] But he organized with a bunch of guys who are up in the Midwest to deface synagogues in Michigan and Wisconsin. [00:50:20] I went to his custody hearing in December in Camden. [00:50:26] And at that point, you know, lawyers on both sides were agreeing that he had said, you know, he had repeatedly stated his belief that Norman was a Russian fed. [00:50:45] So like there were people in the movement who thought he was working for some government or another, and definitely people who thought that the base was just an elaborate trap for white nationalists to join up and then the feds would roll them up. [00:51:03] That was definitely something that people in the movement said. [00:51:05] Yeah, in answer to your question. [00:51:07] So, yeah, because you were saying he lives in Russia. [00:51:09] And I mean, obviously, there are multiple ways to interpret that. [00:51:13] I mean, Russia is like a very popular spot for white nationalists because Russia, like other parts of Eastern Europe, has a very developed white nationalist movement there that has like hugely international ties, right? [00:51:29] But my like weirdo theory, I have a bunch of theories on this. [00:51:33] This is my like one I believe 10%. [00:51:36] I mean, I believe it could be the case, maybe 10%, is that possibly, possibly, now this is not really what I actually truly believe, but this is a possibility, is that Mr. Ronaldo here was possibly recruited by, you know, could be the FSB, and that the whole FBI rolling up all the members of the base was like a counter-intelligence operation. [00:52:01] Now, do I believe that to be true? [00:52:03] No. [00:52:03] Things like that have happened in the past, though, especially in West Germany in the 60s. [00:52:08] I mean, excuse me, in the 80s, that was a big thing there. [00:52:11] But, I mean, the more sort of logical thing to think is that, yeah, my man was working for the feds. [00:52:17] And if that's the case, like, why set up this honeypot? [00:52:22] Yeah, I guess you've named two possibilities that, you know, I have to actively consider. [00:52:33] You know, his history obviously suggests that there is a relationship, a long-term relationship with the U.S. government and the parts of the U.S. government concerned with intelligence. [00:52:51] So certainly the idea that he is working on behalf of the US government needs to be tested. [00:52:58] That's one possibility. [00:52:59] The other one, as you say, is that he's working for the Russian government and that he moved there for that reason and that this is something he's being paid for by them. [00:53:13] Another possibility, well, you know, there's a cluster of possibilities around the idea that he's a sincere Nazi. [00:53:24] And I mean, that's not mutually exclusive with either of the things we already mentioned. [00:53:28] But yeah, maybe he's a sincere Nazi. [00:53:30] Maybe he moved to Russia because some neo-Nazis find Russia to be a congenial place because of its demographics and because it hasn't allowed mass immigration to happen as they see it and because it sort of has an authoritarian kind of form of rule. [00:53:50] And that's undeniable. [00:53:52] It's undeniable that some of these guys find all of that attractive. [00:53:55] Maybe he moved there for that reason and started the base then because maybe he felt like in Russia he was beyond the reach of federal law enforcement. [00:54:08] You know, so that's another possibility. [00:54:14] But, you know, I think another possibility that we need to consider as well, as we're looking for evidence, and I would stress that everything we've said so far, I've said so far, is a range of possibilities, essentially speculation. [00:54:29] You know, I'm trying to find the evidence now. [00:54:31] But the last one is that, you know, in an era of mass wealth inequality, there might be private actors who have the means and the motivation to finance and sponsor something like this. [00:54:48] There might be private actors who, you know, for whatever reason decide that a movement like this on US soil is something that benefits them in some way. [00:55:03] So I think that's the kind of range of possibilities. [00:55:07] Sincere Nazi, oh, the sincere Nazi thing as well is, you know, maybe he started up this, started the base up as something that he thought he might be able to pitch to Russia. [00:55:22] I mean, maybe the intention for working for Russia is there. [00:55:28] I mean, the BBC showed that he had been to this kind of expo or fair for prospective contractors for the Russian government. [00:55:35] Really? [00:55:36] I mean, maybe this is just more detail about. [00:55:44] Apparently he's got quite a nice apartment in St. Petersburg. [00:55:47] And yeah, they had video of him at this kind of expo for contractors. [00:55:52] So maybe this is the product he was trying to sell and maybe they bought it. [00:55:57] Maybe they didn't, that's a possibility as well. [00:56:00] But yeah, I mean, I think that I am not the only reporter who is going as fast as they can to try to figure out what the hell is going on here. [00:56:11] And I think that's the thing among reporters on this as well. [00:56:17] I don't think any of us know what's going on. [00:56:20] It's a bizarre story. [00:56:21] It's a bizarre story. [00:56:23] I mean, what has like, because I also thought sort of my other idea is that if this is like a, if this is like a U.S. sort of honeypot operation, it could be to divert sort of recruits who might join Adam Woffin, which is like a more active group, and to actually get them to join this group that's really under the FBI's sort of watch. [00:56:47] Because, I mean, shit, that makes sense for them to do. === Vetting Processes Revealed (06:07) === [00:56:50] I mean, Adam Waffen, again, has killed people. [00:56:52] This group has, I mean, they've done vandalism and stuff, and they planned on killing people, but hadn't got there yet. [00:56:59] And when they were about to get there, they got rolled up. [00:57:02] What has sort of been the reaction? [00:57:04] I know that, like, their, I think Discord or their Telegraph channel or Telegram channel, excuse me, got, like, hijacked by a member, but what has like, what has sort of the reaction among, I don't know, how many members does this fucking thing have? [00:57:20] And like, how have they reacted to this whole expose? [00:57:24] So that's a bit of a moving target. [00:57:26] I think that's, so, so, so just a little bit of history for the group that's important here. [00:57:34] So I guess in late November, in late November 2018, they had been on an app, another, a different encrypted app called Riot. [00:57:44] I don't know if you're familiar with that, but anyway, it's an encrypted messaging app. [00:57:49] And that got infiltrated. [00:57:53] You know, lots of material got leaked. [00:57:55] A couple of guys got doxxed. [00:57:57] And then they moved to wire. [00:57:59] And at the same time, they tightened up their vetting processes. [00:58:03] And that's the curious thing about when it started. [00:58:05] I mean, the vetting processes were almost non-existent when it started. [00:58:09] But then they did put a vetting process in place. [00:58:13] And so, you know, the vetting process went through stages of, you know, you had to email them, and there would be an email exchange, and then there would be a voice call where a kind of vetting committee would, you know, ask a kind of scripted set of questions. [00:58:36] And then, you know, eventually, depending on where they were, but in the US, certainly most people would then have to go through an in-person meeting. [00:58:45] So, you know, at the widest end of the funnel with people emailing, You know, or getting to the voice call and getting rejected at that point. [00:58:56] Some people didn't make it past emailing. [00:59:00] You know, several hundred people would have cycled through that. [00:59:03] Oh, yeah. [00:59:05] And the number of active members who went in and out is probably in the hundreds as well. [00:59:12] Oh, wow. [00:59:14] As I understand it, before the arrests, there were around 50 guys who had made it through and made it through vetting and were sort of accepted active members. [00:59:33] But there's a lot of turnover as well. [00:59:37] So, yeah, so I mean, it wasn't small. [00:59:41] It was a pretty big organization, comparable in size, I would say, to Adam Offen at its peak, possibly bigger even, because it was a much more, you know, it was a more pluralistic organization in some ways. [01:00:04] They weren't sort of ideologically rigid about who they were going to accept. [01:00:09] They were prepared to accept people who were Christians or who were pagans. [01:00:14] It's also suspicious, no? [01:00:17] Yeah, it is. [01:00:20] That is one of the things that I've thought on a lot. [01:00:25] If you wanted to draw in as many people as possible, whoever you are, if you were to design an organization to draw in as many militant white supremacists as possible, that would be the way to do it. [01:00:40] You just kind of go, well, we're not that fussy about the specific nature of your racist beliefs. [01:00:47] You kill a guy if you love Mary Magdalene. [01:00:50] It's all right with me. [01:00:52] Yeah, as long as you've read Siege and you're prepared to say you're a National Socialist, you're kind of in, really. [01:01:01] So the other dimension of it all, though, was that they were prepping. [01:01:08] The story to the outside world was that they were a white nationalist organization that was prepping for the collapse of society. [01:01:17] So they did want to meet up. [01:01:22] They did want to ensure that people had certain skills. [01:01:29] And that's reflected in the videos they made. [01:01:32] They made these videos of small groups, small arms tactics. [01:01:40] They were clearly kind of doing these kind of drills and they wanted people to know that. [01:01:47] So there was a kind of practical dimension that maybe other groups didn't emphasize. [01:01:54] But yeah, it's, it's very it's, it's it's very striking that um, they were just not that fussy about, about the specific nature of your, of your narcissism yeah yeah, because it is. [01:02:10] I mean, I know that, like among these organizations, there is a pretty big split among Pagans uh, and among Christians, and you know, I found, you know, as a Jewish person, we have very little representation. [01:02:22] You know, we had that movie, The Believer, but you're beyond that very little. [01:02:27] I did thought, I did think it was interesting that one of the people that was sort of snapped up uh, in these, in these recent raids uh, the person who had vandalized the synagogue in in Racine, Wisconsin I don't know if i'm pronouncing that right uh, but he was, he was uh a, a Muslim from, from Arab parents or, excuse me, from Jordanian, I may assume Arab, but Jordanian parents, and that I found that surprising, because a lot of these sort of more, I mean, === Predatory Operations Exposed (09:34) === [01:02:57] if you go, the further right you go, the more it becomes about Jews rather than Muslims um, but I was surprised that that they, they didn't discriminate against that, I guess, like because yeah, I don't know I, I that that was just sort of shocking to me. [01:03:14] Yeah I, they may not have known, I guess, about his yeah um specific, specific heritage, um and um, you know I, I i'm not actually sure what what he might have said to them about his, about his heritage um, it might have been a problem up front if he'd said that he was yeah um, an Arab uh, you know, from a Muslim family I, that that might have been a problem up front. [01:03:41] He may have told them something else um, but you know, with that said um, you know, I think it it goes to, it goes to show what we were saying earlier that um, they didn't ask deep and penetrating questions um they, they really just wanted uh bodies, um and um, he went to in, you know, you can see in the court documents, he went to in-person stuff. [01:04:07] He went to a meetup in Georgia and hung out a bunch of guys for two or three days. [01:04:13] You know um, that was the one where they they, They dismembered a pig and cooked it and ate it and held up the head and stuff and this kind of pagan ritual. [01:04:23] Guess he was practicing then. [01:04:30] I don't know how he presented his religion or his ethnicity, but clearly they didn't ask too many questions. [01:04:37] And I think that reflects something as well about how they were just keen to get people in. [01:04:45] Yeah, that also, I don't know, that also just made me sort of suspicious too, because I'm like, and the FBI, I mean, they're using their traditional method, which is getting mentally unstable or like alienated young men who are Muslim to do something that they like basically force them to do. [01:05:03] It could be something like that. [01:05:05] Maybe just roll two operations into one. [01:05:09] Well, yeah, maybe. [01:05:12] And, you know, I think we'll hopefully find out more about the exact relationship between the FBI and this group. [01:05:24] I mean, from the outside, from what I can see and from what the FBI have presented publicly, you know, they seem kind of upset about this. [01:05:34] But there are other parts of the US state and the intelligence apparatus besides the FBI as well, I guess, is the other thing to say. [01:05:44] So I don't know. [01:05:46] I mean, it's all just an open question at the moment. [01:05:50] But I mean, the thing to say, you know, what you said made me think of the most striking thing about this whole situation to me that I keep coming back to and I keep thinking of is that, you know, as I said, a lot of these guys are so young. [01:06:12] The guy, Richard Tobin, who's on trial in New Jersey, he's 18. [01:06:18] And he was almost like a leader in this whole thing. [01:06:21] Like he was, you know, allegedly organizing interstate operations. [01:06:29] You know, and I went to his custody hearing, as I said, and he's a troubled guy from, you know, a background that is not great, that is impoverished. [01:06:44] And, you know, there's other stuff going on there as well. [01:06:48] You know, and I keep thinking about how predatory this whole movement has been. [01:06:53] Oh, I think. [01:06:53] How it has absolutely latched on to young guys who need to take responsibility for what they've done. [01:07:02] I don't want to make any mistake about that. [01:07:05] And who made choices, but who are nevertheless, you know, open to predatory meetings. [01:07:15] Sure. [01:07:17] Poverty, poverty, mental illness. [01:07:20] Alienation, loneliness. [01:07:23] Right. [01:07:24] It's that same absolutely this. [01:07:26] ISIS demographic. [01:07:28] Yeah. [01:07:29] Yeah. [01:07:29] Yeah, I guess that's right. [01:07:32] And, you know, and maybe guys who just disappeared down a rabbit hole in a particular subculture. [01:07:41] Yeah. [01:07:42] You know, I'm getting the impression that a lot of these guys have come through particular problematic areas of mental culture, you know, to end up in the place where they ended up. [01:08:02] So, yeah, it's an extremely predatory movement, notwithstanding the fact that people make choices. [01:08:13] It's a movement that absolutely looks for and finds people who don't have a lot else to look forward to or to draw on in their lives, I guess. [01:08:26] Yeah. [01:08:27] Well, thank you. [01:08:29] I mean, really appreciate this. [01:08:31] If there's any, we got to roll up the interview now, but if there is any more stuff that comes out about this, I want to talk about it with you because this shit is blowing my fucking mind. [01:08:41] Yeah, totally. [01:08:42] It's because like we talked about this a little before the interview, even the possibility that this could be like a sort of gladio-type situation where there's maybe, you know, they're controlling these groups on the extreme left. [01:08:57] I have no idea what their penetration of the far left is. [01:09:02] And I don't even want to. [01:09:03] It's pretty. [01:09:04] I mean, I assume it's, I mean, just judging by the fact that it's funny just because, I mean, I think I've said this before, but I mean, I remember in high school, like, you know, everyone was just like, don't join Antifa. [01:09:15] Don't join BlackBlock. [01:09:17] It's all feds. [01:09:18] So, like, it's been a long time that that's been. [01:09:21] And that just, that possibility alone, that it could be that this, you know, obviously there are people who, you know, believe in all of this stuff, but like that it could be managed in a way really freaks me out. [01:09:38] It's a weird story. [01:09:39] And I mean, we live in an era of extremely weird stories. [01:09:42] Yeah, totally. [01:09:44] I think at any other time, this story would have had an even bigger impact than it did because it's bizarre. [01:09:51] It's absolutely bizarre that this guy has ended up doing this, you know, given his history. [01:09:58] But yeah, I mean, I'll be happy to come back on and talk about it. [01:10:02] I mean, I'm working on this day and night to just find out more. [01:10:05] And other reporters are too. [01:10:07] So we'll get somewhere, I think. [01:10:10] But I also think that we're going to look back on this whole era and there are going to be a lot of lessons to tie off that are going to take years to really understand. [01:10:23] And I think this might be one of them. [01:10:25] Yeah. [01:10:26] Yeah. [01:10:27] Thank you. [01:10:27] Was there anything where I plug real quick? [01:10:31] Oh, you can follow me on Twitter, Jason underscore A underscore W. [01:10:36] But yeah, also just check out my stuff at The Guardian. [01:10:41] If you Google Jason Wilson, The Guardian, it'll come up. [01:10:45] I've been covering stuff related to this for years now. [01:10:49] So, you know, I guess it's my great American novel, right? [01:10:54] At The Guardian. [01:10:57] It's been a very strange period the last four or five years for sure. [01:11:02] Yeah. [01:11:03] Thank you so much. [01:11:03] We'll link to the piece in the show notes. [01:11:06] It's Revealed the True Identity of the Leader of an American Neo-Nazi Terror Group in The Guardian by Jason Wilson. [01:11:14] Thank you so much. [01:11:14] Thank you. [01:11:15] Great. [01:11:16] Thanks. [01:11:16] Thanks. [01:11:17] We're not Nazis. [01:11:44] But I am a Fed. [01:11:47] Fed, I'm a fed up guy. [01:11:49] You know, we're going to end the Fed and we're going to end the Fed, the Fed Fed, and also the Feds. [01:11:54] Yeah. [01:11:54] And the Feds. [01:11:55] And we're going to end up people being fed up with society and such. [01:11:59] There will be no Jokers in our world. [01:12:02] No, but I like protest Jokers. [01:12:04] You know what? [01:12:04] I'll tell you what. [01:12:05] Joker, people are like, oh, Joker was the hit movie for women. [01:12:11] I'm not kidding. [01:12:11] They like it for the same reason I like Bernie Sanders. [01:12:13] They're like, I can fix him. [01:12:15] What? [01:12:16] I don't need to fix Bernie. [01:12:18] I could fix Joker. [01:12:19] Women always, here's the thing. [01:12:21] As a Jew, let me tell you that. [01:12:22] As a Jew, that women are. [01:12:23] I need Bernie to fix me. [01:12:25] Whoa, okay. [01:12:26] Well, now we're talking my language. [01:12:28] That's how women think about me. [01:12:31] But let's listen. === Fed Up and Fixing (01:03) === [01:12:32] Let's go. [01:12:32] We're off traffic here. [01:12:34] That was a fucking psychotic, insane interview. [01:12:38] We're very glad. [01:12:39] We're going to keep up with Jason on this and any big new developments. [01:12:41] We're going to check in on him and check in on him. [01:12:44] That was a very sweet thing for me to say. [01:12:45] It was nice. [01:12:46] Check in with him. [01:12:47] Yes. [01:12:48] But yeah, thank you for bearing with our absence. [01:12:51] We were out of town and could not record. [01:12:52] And now we're back. [01:12:54] A little Nazi reference with a bay. [01:12:57] It's okay for me to say that. [01:12:59] We are. [01:12:59] We are back. [01:13:01] And we will see you next time. [01:13:04] I'm Liz. [01:13:05] I'm Brace. [01:13:07] I'm Janachomsky. [01:13:09] I don't know why I was waiting for that. [01:13:11] Uh oh yeah. [01:13:12] Oh, I already said we'll see you next time. [01:13:14] We'll doubly see you next time. [01:13:16] Bye-bye. [01:13:35] Come in.