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In this episode, Brad speaks with journalist Amanda Marcotte about her recent Salon article dissecting the rise of Girls Gone Bible—a podcast hosted by two former actresses turned Christian influencers. While the show presents itself as a lighthearted, faith-based space for young women, Amanda and Brad unpack how it subtly promotes a conservative political agenda.
They explore the podcast’s growing influence, the scandal involving one of the hosts, and what this says about the broader landscape of Christian influencer culture. The episode closes with predictions about the future of Girls Gone Bible and how it may continue shaping the beliefs and values of its audience.
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If you've been listening to this show over the last month, you've heard me talk about the ways that pastors and pundits have castigated empathy as a sin, as a bug, as a weakness in Western civilization.
Last week, I spoke with Angela Denker about the crisis in American masculinity and the ways that young boys are being radicalized.
One of the stories of the 2024 election was the ways that young men voted Republican, favoring Donald Trump over Kamala Harris, getting their news from podcasts and YouTube channels.
But what about young women?
Where do we stand with young Christian women and the ways that they understand themselves and the world?
Today I speak with Amanda Marcotte, senior politics writer at Salon, the author of Troll Nation, How the Right Became, Trump Worshipping Monsters, Set on Rat-Effing, Liberals, America, and Truth itself.
And I speak with Amanda about Girls Gone Bible, a podcast and video show that has attracted young women by the millions.
It's a story of two actresses who've turned away from the world and given themselves to Jesus, now are on a journey to help others do the same.
Here's a clip from a recent show.
There's something about trying to stuff your old self away, or trying to stuff parts of yourself away.
I think about, like, every scripture in the Bible that talks about how God is light.
In him there is no darkness at all.
He, like, everything that's done in the dark will come to light.
He illuminates everything.
If you ask God to come in your life, he doesn't tolerate hiddenness.
Even in relationships, like, being exposed, being vulnerable, telling the truth, being honest about who you are, where you've been, where you're at.
I believe in full transparency in a relationship.
I really do because the truth is I'm like I want to believe you when you tell me you love me this is for anyone who's hiding this is for anyone who has shame this is for anyone who's thought you know their old selves or parts of themselves can't
be accepted that's
I know that God is calling us all into complete self-acceptance.
Every part of the journey and responsibility and accountability and clarity and transparency and compassion.
That's what Jesus is, right?
He has the perfect balance of truth and grace.
Amanda and I break down the story of Girls Gone Bible, the ways that it portrays faith and brings women into the fold for discussions about health and relationships, beauty and friendship, but also serves as a pipeline to Maga Nation and Trumpism,
the way it politicizes women, often without advertising it or letting them know.
This is the mirror image of the Manosphere.
This is the kind of phenomenon that the right is using to change those statistics about the ways young women vote, how they understand reproductive rights, the ways that they participate in our political culture.
I'm Brad Onishi, and this is Straight White American Jesus.
American Jesus
Welcome to Straight White American Jesus.
As I just said, here with a first-time guest and someone whose work I've admired for a long time and I've had the chance to interact with a little bit over the last year or two, and that is Amanda Marcotte.
So, Amanda, thanks for joining me.
Thanks for having me.
You've written so many great pieces.
We've gotten to talk a little bit.
I've given my thoughts on one or two in the past, but...
And so you wrote about...
Girls Gone Bible.
I don't know.
I'm so excited to talk about this because I have so many thoughts.
Let's just start here.
Great branding.
You've got to give them that.
It's genius.
You know what I mean?
The evangelicals will always just be the best marketers in the religious cosmos.
The mainline Methodists in the Midwest are doing great work, and the branding looks like it's from 1997.
And an intern named Kirk came up with it.
And the evangelicals are out here doing Girls Gone Bible, and it's just like, you know, ingenious stuff and also terrible content.
Who are the Girls Gone Bible?
Tell us about the two hosts, what they do on this show.
Like, if I have never heard of this, what do I need to know?
So it's hosted by, it's a show that's been on YouTube and Spotify and other places for about two years.
It's hosted by two women.
Pegged them in the early 30s.
Angelina Halili.
I hope I'm not mutilating her name, even though I've written it a million times.
And Arielle Reitzma.
They are both kind of struggling actresses in Los Angeles.
If you check their IMDB page, they have almost comically stereotypical third girl murdered in a horror movie kind of resumes.
They were obviously not doing super great in that world, but now they have this podcast where they talk about how they've become Christians and they market themselves to pretty young girls.
If you watch their sizzle reel, which shows you not only who is coming to their shows, but who they want to come to their shows, we're talking ages like 12 to like 25 is their target audience.
They're very beautiful in that kind of standard LA young actress way.
And they're incredibly successful.
They have like a million Instagram followers.
They are selling tickets to their shows for, you know, 40, 50, sometimes over $100 a seat.
They have been...
Cozy with Donald Trump in the past few months, they gave some prayer at one of his victory rallies.
It was a scary prayer because their shtick on their show is very like girls just having a chat, casual, it's supposed to feel friendly.
And then when they were at this Trump rally, it was just basically, you know, may you rain bloody hellfire on your enemies, you know?
And I'm not exaggerating, look it up.
So that's the TLDR of these two women.
Yeah, and they actually, like, changed the Lord's Prayer to insert, like, Donald Trump in there anyway.
One of the things that I think grabs me about these two is they give you the feeling that you're signing up for a podcast, a video, a show where, yeah, it's girl talk.
It's time to just sort of talk about our lives and our routines and our desires, our aspirations.
Health, wellness, dating, love, career.
And it feels like a lot of shows in this genre these days, whether they're targeted to young men or young women, where you don't go there thinking, you know what I'm up for?
Some really hardcore right-wing politics.
Where should I find that?
Oh, girl, like you go there as like a 19-year-old or a 16-year-old thinking, these women are beautiful, their hair looks amazing, makeup on point, earrings looks dazzling.
And they're talking about home, career, makeup, and yeah, some Jesus and some Christianity and some faith.
This is my jam.
And yet, it feels like a pipeline to MAGA.
And if you look up the host, here they are saying, please rain down bloody hellfire on Donald Trump's enemies.
Is that a fair kind of characterization as to how they kind of finesse the politics in a beautiful...
Cocoon of other components?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I would say that I interviewed one former fan who has really become a big-time hater of theirs on TikTok.
She's a good time, Jenny Neiman.
And she very much, I think, would be a very good example of the kind of person who fell right into their trap.
She was very young, early 20s, I'd say.
She had just come off of a bad breakup.
I think she had moved maybe recently, but she was unchurched at that point, really.
So that's kind of critical because she grew up Presbyterian.
And she said that she watched their show and it just felt like it was very soothing, I think.
And it made her feel like she was just having a good time listening.
There was a parasocial relationship there of listening to these beautiful women talk about stuff that was...
Important to her, and she's Christian, and so she felt like she really enjoyed the fact that they were talking about their faith journey, too, even if she didn't necessarily agree with what she thought was kind of conservative religious ideas.
But it didn't occur to her that that was part of a right-wing political project.
And then when they did endorse Trump, she was like, what?
And then I think a few other things.
The timeline was a little confusing, but she did join a liberal Presbyterian church in Tampa, so I think she started getting some of those needs met in a healthier way.
But she walked away, but she's sounding the alarm, I think in part because her experience shows that this stuff can really affect people that are not looking for conservative politics.
Yeah. We did an episode on our series Spirit and Power, and it was really Leah Payne who did this, about Jenny Donnelly, who's a really popular kind of conservative, Christian, charismatic mama bear figure who's led a lot of the kind of political protests and political mobilization on libraries and books and all kinds of other things.
It's the same exact thing with the women in their 30s and 40s who go to Jenny Donnelly.
They're not thinking, hey, I really want some transphobic, ultra-right-wing, xenophobic content today.
I'm just going to type that into my podcast player, see what comes up.
They're looking for mom content, mom blog, PTA, school board stuff, and they end up there.
And that's what happens with these young women with Girls Gone Bible.
You make such an amazing point in the piece that this is not...
Trad wife content.
So how is Girls Gone Bible distinct from the trad wife genre?
Well, to begin with, they're not married.
I would say that they don't really talk about domesticity at all or very much at all.
They very much branded themselves as glamorous New York actresses, right?
They do speak about working, which we'll get to later, but that might have meant sometimes.
But they definitely work as actresses.
It's, like, very aspirational.
And, in fact, I would say...
I watched some of their videos about dating, and they're kind of coy about sex a lot.
Again, I would say that 25 is really the high end of the audience they're trying to reach.
They're looking for, like, teenage girls.
A lot of the time when they're talking about dating...
You get this impression, if you are an adult person and you listen to them talk about dating, you are like, you can sense that they are not being fully honest because even if you were waiting for marriage, which they admit they haven't done,
this is not how you think about dating.
This is how teenage girls think about dating.
Or, you know, very virginal teenage girls would think about what dating as an adult might look like.
And it's not like this at all.
So I would say that they're really gunning for a different audience.
Tradwife content online, kind of depending on who you're looking at, is aimed either at older married women, not like super old, but like in their 30s and 40s, or maybe even in their 20s, but like older women that want that domestic fantasy.
And it was someone like Hannah Nealman of Ballerina Farm.
Or, like, some of the stuff on TikTok is just for men.
It's very sexualized.
It's just a pornographic, almost, fantasy of domestic servitude and is much more aimed at men.
So we're talking about people that are looking for the, like, 17-reader, Teen Vogue audience.
I'm going to date myself and mention a very old movie, but there's a Jennifer Garner movie called 13 Going on 30. And Jennifer Garner goes from a 13-year-old to a 30-year-old, and she works at a high-powered fashion magazine.
And when I think of Girls Gone Bible, I think of women in their 30s who are portraying adult relationships like a 13-year-old would if they had been transported into a 32-year-old's body.
You know, like Jennifer Garner's character in that movie.
It's like, oh, this is what it means to be 30, and everyone just sort of thinks she's this refreshingly candid, you know, naive person.
All that to say, it's interesting to think about grown women marketing themselves to 12- and 16-year-olds.
There is something creepy about that, if I'm honest.
The second thing is, when you mentioned you were doing this and asked my thoughts, one of the first things that popped into my head...
Was that Girls Gone Bible is like, Hawk to a Girl meets the prosperity gospel.
And the reason I thought that is because, like, Hawk to a Girl went, and I don't know if Hawk to a Girl was like, astroturfed, maybe you know, maybe you have way more info than me.
Supposedly she went from organic, found her on the street, she made this viral comment, Hawk to a yay, to now she has a meme coin and is like a superstar.
But there's a sexual element to that.
There's a young, hip, cool element to it.
There's an it girl thing.
And Girls Gone Bible has that, plus this sort of prosperity gospel feeling of, we do shows.
It costs $100 or $50 to come.
Do you want to be a subscriber?
Do you want to buy our products?
That raises another question, which is, is this a ministry?
Or is this a something else?
And I have thoughts, but, you know, what do you think?
The ministry thing is interesting.
I want to, like, say something about the Haktua girl thing real quick, because they do...
So, I forget her name, the Haktua girl.
I do think that was just a thing that actually happened.
I think that people have done serious reporting on this.
It was not astroturfed.
She was immediately, like, a bunch of people swarmed in, and she basically was like...
Either I'd make money off this or other people make money off this, but this isn't going away.
And so I think she was very genuine, like the genuine real deal innocent in all this.
Girls Gone Bible markets themselves that way.
It's very important to understand that they pretend that they just...
And Relevant did a profile of them where they had their origin story.
We were just sitting on the couch and we were like, we love having these discussions about faith and life.
And we just decided to just turn on the camera and overnight we're a sensation.
And you're like, well, okay, but you registered an LLC and a domain name a month before your first episode went up.
And also, and I did some research and they hired people to do this.
But also, you can look at the videos and it's like professional lighting, professional camera work, professional microphones.
You just had this crap laying around your house?
I don't think so.
But it's important to understand that a big part of their marketing is this idea that they weren't ambitious, that this was not something that they tried to achieve.
And that's why I do think the fact that they call themselves a ministry is a bit of a contradiction that their audience doesn't seem to pick up on because, in my opinion, ministry is something that you would, at bare minimum, do very deliberately.
Their message is both, we're just trying to figure this out.
We're just girls trying to talk our way through the world.
But also, we are spiritual leaders here to guide you.
And I'm like, I feel you should pick.
Yeah. We need one lane or the other on that one.
Well, I mean, you're making a great point.
There's an incoherency there, right?
One of the things is, oh, we're humble.
We just hit record.
We're trying to figure out life.
Come along with us.
You're trying to figure it out, too.
You're 15. You're 19. You got your heart broken.
You want to be beautiful and glamorous, but also like a child of God and a person of faith.
Let's go on the journey together.
And also, we have spiritual authority.
And I think what gets me about this is, as much as I've studied and covered prosperity gospel people, independent charismatic preachers, people who don't have a seminary degree but nonetheless are leading a church, on one hand,
I'm like, okay, you didn't do the formal training.
But on a daily basis, you're getting up in the morning and you've got to lead that church.
I probably don't agree with your theology.
I probably don't agree with how you view women in the church.
There's like a million things, if not everything, we don't agree on.
But you're not pretending, at least, about the fact that there's like 50 or 500 or 5,000 people who are looking to you for spiritual guidance, and you are there acting as their shepherd, their leader, their something.
The ambiguity, and even when the prosperity gospel person's like, and give me money for that, you're like, well, okay.
But you are acting as the pastor who's giving themselves to that congregation in some regard.
These folks, I'm like, yeah, you don't do that.
You get on a mic.
You talk.
You say you have spiritual authority.
Are you going around the country to lead people in prayer?
Are you leading campaigns of fasting and spiritual guidance?
Are you devoting yourselves to ministry in some way that is self-sacrificial, that is self-negating?
Is somehow like ascetic in the, you know, the kind of spiritual term.
No, you're just on a mic talking.
And so there's something here to me that signals that we've gotten like a step further from the irritating prosperity gospel person who's like, give me money and God will reward you to the, just give me money and I'm figuring it out on a spiritual journey like you.
And sometimes I pretend I know what I'm talking about.
Sometimes I don't.
I don't do any sacrifice, giving, serving, pastoral care, but still I'm here and I'm on the mic.
That's like a shift from one degree to another.
I'm not sure if that makes sense to you in terms of the reporting you did and how you see these folks, but that's how it looks to me.
does. And it's part of, I think, a larger trend that social media has really kicked off, which is that the idea of expertise.
Expertise, especially on the right, but also I think with sometimes younger people or people that are not thinking through things very clearly, maybe haven't had a lot of work experience, for whatever reason, various communities I think are vulnerable to this,
is this idea that somehow the non-expert knows more than the expert.
And I mean, obviously we see this In really ugly ways, where RFK, for instance, holds himself out as somebody who understands biology and immunity better than doctors and medical researchers, right?
We see Donald Trump, who holds himself out as an expert on everything, though as far as I can tell, the man's never read a book in his life.
But I think that this performance of authenticity...
There's an emotional validation there.
I mean, I obviously don't completely understand it because I disagree with it very strongly, but I do think that for a lot of people, I can see why young girls, for instance, would feel like it was a safer place to listen to young women talk about these issues.
From a space of just this is their heart's truth.
That's what the audience believes anyway.
And instead of listening to a minister at the church or worse online, I totally get that.
But there is a category error that is just spreading throughout our society and is causing a lot of damage.
And this is one which is people that are wholly unqualified.
Yep. Offer guidance are held out as the leaders.
It's that weird category conflation of like, oh, I want that authentic person who's like me.
And you mentioned that listener earlier who had gone through a bad breakup and was like a lot of people these days, hard to make friends.
Where do you socialize?
Where do you find your network?
So I listen to these podcasts because there's a parasocial relationship, as you put it.
If I can get two hours of hanging out with the Girls Gone Bible...
I feel like I was with people who, like, get me.
And it was a stand-in for that friend group I wish I had or that moved away or that fell apart.
And that friend group, though, like, my 19-year-old friend group is not the people I look to for the authority about life's most fundamental questions.
And that's the category error, right?
It's like, you know, my freshman dorm, like, roommate, Jared, is not the guy that I think should, like, tell me about, you know, exactly.
What's going on with science or reproduction or, you know, global politics or whatever it may be.
So that category error, as you put it, is so clear in the Girls Gone Bible kind of example.
Oh, no, cats are welcome on the show.
They're always welcome.
Animals, cats, babies.
Real quick, you know, from the listeners and the fans you interviewed and the kind of comments you saw from them.
Does it seem important to them that the Girls Gone Bible hosts are young and beautiful and put together?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, they're aspirational for sure.
Absolutely aspirational.
I think that, and again, that combination of aspirational and authentic is working on that level too, which is...
They speak in ways that are meant to seem like very easy and accessible.
They claim all the time to be very transparent, especially if you don't have a ton of knowledge.
I think coming into this, it can be very convincing that they're like being very honest with you and they're just talking about their feelings.
And that makes it a lot easier for the listener viewer to feel like I could be like them.
This could be me.
So if you're like a 15-year-old watching this, you could imagine yourself being these girls in six or seven years.
I think that their audience might think they're younger than they actually are.
That's okay.
They've got LA grooming standards, and so they don't look like 30-year-olds in Nebraska.
Yeah, yeah.
I just, I asked that question because I remember being a 90s evangelical youth group kid and, you know, we thought, we always thought that people like Mandy Moore, who was supposed to be a Christian or, you know, even some of the like Disney pop stars that came out of that era who were Christians in some way.
You know, I remember Katy Perry before she was Katy Perry, when she was like a total evangelical kind of rock star.
And then you had the like really cringy ones like Creed.
Creed was always one that we really...
They love the Lord.
They're awesome.
You know, people like that.
So I guess what I'm getting at is I remember the feeling of thinking, yeah, Jesus says I don't need to be hot and cool and have status or money.
But for some reason, I really want the hot, cool, rich people to be with Jesus.
And somehow that will legitimate me being with Jesus because they could do whatever they want.
They could go to parties.
They could, you know, be famous.
And hook up and, you know, do fancy things, but they're over here with the Lord.
I might as well be with the Lord, too.
That makes sense, you know, so.
They were really explicit, likely, like, marketing themselves this way in one of the most recent videos.
I think it was titled Confidence.
And it was all about, like, how true confidence comes from your walk with the Lord and how he...
How that spiritual confidence that God gives...
I fully admit I don't completely understand some of this stuff, but that was the gist, is love of Jesus is the only confidence you need, not worldly confidence and stuff.
And it's like, well, I'm kind of surprised our audience isn't easy for you to say.
It might seem like you have everything going for you.
But I totally see your point, which is like, or...
It does that, like, zap on your brain, which is...
And there is the prosperity gospel angle in there, which is, like, well, maybe if I do embrace this worldview, then all that other stuff will come into me.
Totally. Yeah.
That makes total sense.
I think, yeah.
One of the things you point out in the piece that I really want to get to is the Girls Gone Bible is a representative of...
Reaching out to young women, bringing them into a kind of covert MAGA pipeline and political pipeline in the guise of something else.
We've heard all about this with the manosphere and young men in the wake of the 2024 election.
You know, how has Girls Gone Bible a kind of counterpart to that?
And maybe an attempt to say, you know, we were able to get those young dudes, 18 to 28 year old dudes, to go vote for Donald Trump.
The women were hung up on abortion and they didn't.
So maybe we need more Girls Gone Bible.
And the podcast world needs to reach out to young women in a way that will change some of those voting patterns as we go forward.
Yeah, they're registered as an LLC, so it was really hard to get much information about their finances.
I will say that the professionalism that they came right out of the gate with It raises questions for me about whether they had a capital infusion at the top because it's very hard for me to imagine that they did not.
It is cheap to do stuff from your living room, which they do, but it just looks so nice and their hair and makeup is professional.
I feel like they must have had some capital off top.
I don't know what the goal there was or anything like that.
What I will say is that the manosphere operates in this way where there's been a lot of people writing about it, including myself, who kind of really talked about how they prey on young men's desires that are very just normal.
And, you know, the desire to have friends, a desire to be liked, a desire to get a girlfriend, and to be socially successful.
They tell them that all their frustrations with this are unique to their generation, which I think if you don't have any context because you're a young person, you don't realize that you look at the adults around you and they do often seem like they have it figured out and you didn't see the process where they were once,
like you, also dateless virgins who didn't know how to dress themselves.
You just gotta learn.
That's like the best characterization of a 19-year-old boy I've ever heard.
Yeah, just like that.
But, yeah, so the man's spirit tells him, like, well, this is feminism.
That's why you can't get a date, as opposed to, almost no 19-year-olds are getting laid.
Like, that's just a myth.
That's a TV Beverly Hills 90210 myth.
And I think this is the female version of that, right?
Which is, They're definitely discussing a lot of the obstacles that are facing young women who have a lot of longing and also career stuff.
There's a lot of anxiety in young people around what their career is going to look like, what their future is going to look like.
And so here's these people with this soothing message that all that other crap you've been told by liberals and feminists...
Is false.
And that's a very appealing message because what liberals and feminists are telling young people is complicated.
They're not giving them easy answers.
They're saying, yeah, just like I said, it's going to take a while.
You're going to fall on your face a lot.
It's not going to be easy.
The world is not simple.
Relationships are not simple.
Whereas on Girls Gone Bible, they are selling a very simple message, which is, That if you just submit to this very rigorous conservative ideology, it's all going to work out for you.
And in fact, I was alarmed at how much they would often say things like, if you just wholly submit to a man, you will never have real problems ever in your marriage.
I mean, this is a promise that they've made their audience, and you can see why that's an appealing message.
It is a lie, but I think that's kind of what's going on here.
One of the things that seems, I think, at least somewhat unique to this generation is a sense of loneliness.
And I could be wrong here.
I'm going to date myself again, but we had Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone come out 30 years ago.
Well, maybe longer now.
See, this is what happens.
You think 1995 was like 10 years ago forever.
So people have been talking about the loneliness epidemic in this country for a while.
But I will say, It is getting worse.
It seems like, and young men especially, but when I think of Girls Gone Bible, I think of young women too.
I think of like a 17-year-old who doesn't have any friends at school.
Social media is hard.
It feels like there's bullying.
It feels like there's this.
As you say, there's just this like onslaught of uncertainty.
And one of the things I've always said is that like the simplicity, Of fundamentalist religion and right-wing politics is going to appeal to people because if you simplify the world and you tell them you have a solution, you'll always get people to sign up.
It doesn't matter what the message is.
And so Girls Gone Bible seems to have strong elements of that.
All right.
We've got to get to the controversy.
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Tell us where we can find you and your writing and you're doing such great work on all these topics.
So where can people keep up with that?
Yeah, thanks for having me again.
This has been so much fun.
I'm at Salon.com.
I write there almost every day.
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Awesome. Yeah, just Amanda, if y'all aren't familiar with Amanda's writing, you should be.
She's covering...
All the things we talk about in this show in such creative and amazing ways.
And of course, covering much, much more than that.
So definitely check it out.
As always, we'll be back Wednesday with It's In The Code.
We'll be back Friday with The Weekly Roundup.
And Thursday, stay tuned for special episodes on something really, really fun.
I just, as I was saying that, I felt like Girls Gone Bible.
I was like, oh my God, I've turned into somebody who's like, just trying to...
I don't know.
All right, y'all.
Here's a scandal.
Now I'm going to do an ad read.
Yeah, Thursday I reveal all the things that Dan Miller, my co-host, has been doing.
