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Brad gives a preview of his new book by discussing how some of Trump's tactics and myths are comparable to what Hitler used to gain power in Germany. Brad is careful to point out that his comparison is just that - a comparison. He is not arguing that Trump and Hitler are identical. Rather, his argument is that Trump's Big Lie and the myth that the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago was unconstitutional and illegal are resonant with the Stab-in-the-Back myths Hitler used in Germany to convince his followers that their country had been stolen from them and only he could return it to glory.
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My name is Brad Onishi, faculty at the University of San Francisco, our social center partnership with the CAP Center at UCSB. And I want to do something today I haven't done in quite a while, which is to do a solo episode.
And I actually want to give you a preview of my new book, Preparing for War, The Extremist History of White Christian Nationalism and What Comes Next.
The reason I wanted to do this episode is because this week, or actually this past week, I should say, President Biden gave a speech in which he declared that MAGA Nation and MAGA Republicans, including Donald Trump, are enemies of democracy who do not respect the Constitution.
He made the case that you cannot be pro-insurrectionist and pro-democracy.
And he tried rhetorically to isolate MAGA Republicans from the rest of the country, in essence, to say that one cannot be part of this group of people, this group of this movement, and also be for the American Republic.
Now, this also came on the heels of Biden giving a speech on August 25th, in which he basically said, well, he explicitly said that the MAGA movement and Trump's followers are semi-fascist.
And that raised quite a stir.
People have been talking about it, as we discussed on the weekly roundup this week.
Governor Sununu of New Hampshire asked for an apology from Joe Biden, and so on.
One of the things that...
What has caught my eye over the last couple days is that there have been really prominent media figures who have kind of got on the both sides train.
They've asked Biden representatives, Biden staffers, and other Democrats whether or not Biden's using the word fascism and giving the speech that he gave at Independence Hall, where he explicitly named MAGA Nation as an enemy of American democracy.
If this was a good idea, if this was going to bring unity, if this was going to be going too far.
One notable example of this is Martha Raddatz of ABC, who asked whether or not Biden's use of the term semi-fascism and some of his lines from the speech at Independence Hall categorized as hate speech.
And so you can see there, right, on a legacy network with an overwhelmingly influential journalist like Martha Raddatz, who often is a debate moderator and other things, saying that perhaps Biden had ventured into hate speech by claiming that this movement is semi-fascist.
Now, there's some really laughable things about this that we could spend our time on.
One of them is the fact that Donald Trump called Democrats fascists going back a couple years ago.
Nobody noticed.
Nobody seemed to take an eye to it.
Nobody asked if that was hate speech.
There was no nothing.
It was just run-of-the-mill Donald Trump discourse that had all been but forgotten except for Matthew Sheffield of Flux and Some other people basically shared the clip on Twitter and it got picked up and people kind of realized that Trump's been calling Democrats and others fascists for a long time.
The other thing that I think is more concerning to me, though, is that we discussed on Friday in the Weekly Roundup that when we think about fascism, we don't think about something that, A, happens in an instant.
Or B, happens from the outside.
That we talked about how fascism takes place over time, and it's instituted over time, and it's often instituted using the very levers of democracy, such that you look up after 5 or 10 or 15 years, and all of a sudden, All of the democratic processes and institutions have been eroded, and you're left with a fascist leader who is, in essence, the rule of law.
The second thing we discussed is that when fascism is instituted, it uses the homegrown symbols of a country.
When it happened in Germany or Italy, it used mythology and symbols and events to garner support.
As it's happening here, and we discussed this Friday as well, it's drawing on the most kind of Americana of symbols that one can think of, talking about the American flag and defending American freedoms, the border, the military.
The idea is to make the MAGA movement the most American thing that could have ever been.
And then to divide everybody between patriots with the MAGA side and everyone else who supposedly hates the country and is a communist and a Marxist and wants to destroy the United States as we know it and blah blah blah blah blah.
Okay?
Well, I take a deep dive in my book when it comes to the instance of fascism in Germany, and it's a very famous instance because the leader of that movement was Adolf Hitler, and it led to one of the greatest tragedies in human history, which was the Holocaust.
It's very, in my mind, dangerous to compare something like the MAGA movement to the Nazi party in Germany and to compare Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler.
So what I want to say from the start, and I know no matter what I say here, trolls are going to pick up on this and people are going to do with it what they want.
But if you're listening, here's what I want to do.
I want to compare what happened in Germany in the 1920s, 1930s, to some of the things that have happened in the United States.
I want to compare some of the tactics of Adolf Hitler in his ascendance to power and his ascendance to absolute power without democratic checks and balances to some of the ways that the Trumpian world and Trump himself have attempted to gain authority, legitimacy, and yes, power.
Let's not forget that Trump this past weekend said that he should be automatically reinstated as president, even though the election was two years ago.
So this is all hovering in the ethos.
It's all hovering in our midst.
Trump continues to promise that if he's reelected, he'll look favorably on those who have been prosecuted for their crimes in the January 6th insurrection and so on.
So I want to make this comparison.
Now, in making a comparison, by definition, a comparison is not to say that one thing is the other thing.
So I am not saying that Donald Trump is exactly like Adolf Hitler.
I'm not saying that the MAGA movement is exactly like the Nazi Party and its gross development in Germany throughout the 1920s and 1930s.
What I'm saying is, is that if we pay attention, we might see some of the same tactics, some of the same discourse, some of the same strategy, and it might illuminate why we are in such a dangerous position as a country at the moment.
So let's jump in.
One of the final chapters of my book, Preparing for War, I talk about how the climate in 1918 Germany was one of great uncertainty.
If you recall, 1918 is when World War I ended, and Germany was undergoing a very unexpected defeat.
Germany had been a military power throughout Europe going back a century.
It had humiliated France, Prussia, but Germany sort of baked in there.
It humiliated France about 50 years earlier in what was a disastrous campaign for the French that eventually sort of led to the Paris Commune and other things.
That's a whole other story.
The point here is that neither the German military, the German government, nor the German people expected to lose World War I. They were not used to losing in war.
You can imagine this is kind of how it goes in the United States.
There's this perception that the United States doesn't lose.
People wear, in my opinion, misguidedly shirts that say undefeated and two world wars and this kind of stuff.
Well, Germany was in that position.
So when they lost, and they were handed this humiliating defeat, and made to kind of exist in a humiliating fashion after the opposing forces in Europe set up their government and asked for repayment and for disbursement of funds and reparation and repentance for the war and all this sort of stuff The
climate in Germany was one where the people were confused, they were downtrodden, and they were looking for an explanation for something that felt impossible.
Well, one of the things that took hold in 1918 Germany was a set of myths called the stab in the back myths.
And these were the myths that somehow the German military had stabbed Germany and the German people in the back by purposefully Losing the war that some of the German generals and some of the German leaders had contrived to lose the war to create situations where their military was failing or defeated and to even create situations where they would kind of fire on themselves,
where there would be friendly fire or false flag operations, where an attack on the German military was made to look like it was from the outside, when in reality it came from the inside.
So we have these myths floating around, and we have a people group, the German people, who are looking for any explanation because they just can't believe that they have lost.
And second, they're undergoing a thoroughgoing humiliation in terms of their European context.
They not only have lost the war, but their very existence has changed within the continent.
They're no longer the leaders of the continent.
Their financial situation is dire.
The economy is dire.
The outlook for the country is dire.
And there's a sense of like, what do we do next?
Who are we?
So the stab in the back myths really provided a handy explanation, even if they had no basis in reality.
If the German people could believe that, yes, the only reason we're in this position is because some out-of-touch elites who don't actually care about us betrayed us, then that would explain why we're undergoing and experiencing what we're going through.
I bring that up because for the last two years we have lived with the big lie.
We've lived with the lie that the election in 2020 was stolen from Donald Trump and given to Joe Biden.
Every inspection and investigation, every look into the voting machines, the voting process, every lawsuit has come up empty in terms of any form of massive voter fraud.
Nonetheless, dozens of candidates across the country, inspired by Donald Trump and his ongoing telling of the big lie, have propagated the myth that the election was stolen, that the only reason that Maga Nation, Might be in this position is because they were betrayed by elites in the deep state.
They were betrayed by people who wanted to steal the election, by globalists or world leaders.
Or anyone else who would have an interest in Donald Trump not being the president.
In essence, it's a myth that is explaining a defeat that for many in the Trump world feels impossible because they have lived in a bubble of media and rhetoric that says that Donald Trump is the most important, the most popular, and the most influential president in United States history.
These myths are a way to explain something through a shortcut.
They deny reality, they deny fact, and they give people intellectually and emotionally something to hold on to.
When Donald Trump's home was searched by the FBI, this added another layer to the big lie myth in the sense that The lie that was told was that the FBI was lawless.
The FBI was acting in a rogue way, in ways that are unconstitutional, and so on and so forth.
What it did is it further made Donald Trump into a martyr, one who had been a successful leader of the country and promised to make it great again, and yet who had only been held back by these out-of-touch elites who were doing anything they could to make sure that he didn't get power.
Or that he didn't keep power as president.
So, as we live through the ongoing big lie, and as we hear Donald Trump and his followers claim, as he did recently, Donald Trump did, that Joe Biden is the enemy of the people, that the FBI is a rogue institution.
As we see Republicans running for office say that if the FBI came to their house, none of them would leave alive and so on.
In my mind, what we have It's an extension of the big lie, and the big lie as something to me that has a deep parallel with the stab in the back myth that happened in Germany in 1918. Now, what happened with this stab in the back myth?
Why is it important to the story?
Well, it's important to the story because in the chaotic years after World War I, there were many different political parties vying to kind of take hold of what was in essence Germany's first democracy.
There was a vacuum of power, there was a vacuum of authority, and so many people were vying to fill it.
Well, one of those parties was a nationalist socialist party, one that really began at its core as a party for working people who were patriotic and in many ways nationalist and who wanted to find a way to get back to the way of life that they had before.
People who had undergone severe losses economically at the hands of the war, for whom inflation was really hurting them, and who really felt as if their position in the country had slipped because they could no longer make the kind of living that they once did as blue-collar workers because and who really felt as if their position in the country had slipped because they could no longer make the kind
Now, very quickly, I think many of you know this story, a man named Adolf Hitler rose to prominence in the Nationalist Socialist Party.
And while he didn't always use the word stab in the back myth, he always propagated the idea that the only reason Germany was in the situation that it was in is because It had been betrayed by its leaders, people who did not love the country,
people who in fact hated Germany and the German people, and that the surrender at the hands of the French and the other Europeans was really a matter of being betrayed by a group of spineless traitors rather than the defeat that Germany actually endured and in some ways might have deserved.
Now, Hitler used this lie, among other myths, to inspire in the early 1920s what is now called the Beer Hall Push.
He rallied his followers within the Nationalist Socialist Party, and they attempted to march from a beer hall to the city hall in Munich.
Was one in which Hitler led thousands of people to try to overthrow the government seat in Munich, in Bavaria, in southern Germany, and in essence, the entire Weimar Republic, or the Weimar Republic, which was the democracy that had been set up after the war.
Sixteen people died in the Beer Hall push, and Hitler was put in jail.
Now, to me, once again, I think there's a good comparison point here.
That when we think about Hitler's attempt to overthrow the government, it was in many ways founded on a set of lies and a set of myths.
The idea that the reason Germany wasn't great anymore was because of out-of-touch elites and people who didn't care about the country.
The reason that the workers in his following were experiencing such hardship was because they'd been betrayed, and that in essence it was possible to make Germany great again, to return to its old glory, if people would simply return to old values, put the nation first, and be willing to work hard and trust the leader.
He leads them on this attempt to overthrow the government, which ultimately fails.
Now, this reminds me of January 6th because January 6th also was based on lies.
It was based on lies of making the country great again and avenging the stolen election or the thing that had been taken away.
January 6th was a moment when the myth inspired reality in a tragic, tragic way.
Now, after the Beer Hall push, Hitler is put in jail, but only for a short time.
He's let out very early.
He only does a couple of months.
And he even has many, many visitors as he does his jail time.
And when he's released, his power is even greater.
He's popular, and as the German economy continues to go badly, and eventually, in the years following, as the Great Depression hits Germany, the German people are looking for answers and solutions and help.
Well, Adolf Hitler promised to lead Germany back to not only prominence, but to dominance.
Let me read just a little bit from chapter 10 of my book.
In addition to the stab on the back myths, Hitler claimed that democracy was not the best form of government for the German people, but rather one forced on them by their enemies after the war.
As the 1920s wore on, his politics of resentment took hold and the German populace looking for a figure to lead them back to glory.
The stab on the back myths became the heart of Nazi propaganda, and thus the basis for violence against anyone who opposed them.
Hitler used the myth to cultivate resentment and rage.
He railed against democracy in the name of national pride and the greatness of Germany.
In other words, he used the myth to call his followers to make Germany great again.
When the Great Depression took hold of Germany in 1928, Hitler had already won the War of Truth and Reality in the public square.
Historical accuracy meant nothing in the face of a national citizenry looking for a story in which to place their rage, grievance, and desire for vengeance.
Hitler gave them that story, and so Hitler rose to power.
I know that it is always dangerous to compare anything to Nazi Germany and to Adolf Hitler.
I know that as I do this, someone somewhere will be scoffing and rolling their eyes saying, oh, it's ridiculous to make these comparisons and so on.
Oh, Hitler's such low-hanging fruit when it comes to making anyone, including Trump, out to be the bad guy and so on and so forth.
My response is that we have a situation where the man who lost the 2020 election has continued to tell a myth that has already inspired an insurrection at our Capitol.
We were in a position where our vice president and senators and congresspeople were trying to certify an election, and yet they were seconds away from being killed by a mob that was hunting them at the behest of the former president.
We saw gallows erected outside of the Capitol, a crowd chanting, hang Mike Pence.
We have a situation where the man who lost power has inspired dozens of candidates to run for office throughout the country, including offices where they would be in charge of certifying their state's elections in the next cycle.
We have a situation where that president has promised to pardon Those who took part in the insurrection.
And now we know that that president had top secret documents strewn all over a closet at his home in Florida.
For me, we're at a crucial point.
If we're not willing to face up, like Biden did at least in part this week, that we are in the face of a rising fascist threat.
That the main currents and main tenets of what we call fascism, as Dan and I laid out on Friday, are already present in the MAGA GOP, MAGA Nation, whatever you call it.
And that a second term for someone like Donald Trump would, in essence, end democracy.
I say that because when Hitler was made chancellor in 1933, there was this idea that the conservatives and the fiscal elites could control him and use him for their own good.
Well, soon they found out that that wasn't possible and that he became the absolute ruler of Germany and the rest is some of the most tragic history we have of the 20th century and perhaps in all of human history.
I make this comparison today not to be outlandish, not to be outrageous.
I make it because if we don't pay attention to the similarities in how fascism rises, if we don't pay attention to the fact that fascism is a process, fascism is a set of stages, and that fascism is homegrown, it doesn't look like the scary monster from the outside.
It looks like your neighbor.
It looks like your uncle.
It looks like the people you grew up with.
And all of a sudden, you're in the throes of something that is beyond your and anyone else's control.
I make these comparisons because we are living in a time where myth is controlling the thinking and the actions of many millions of Americans.
And the man who is propagating those lies is seemingly incapable of limiting himself when it comes to pushing and pushing and pushing his agenda for power.
control, and domination.
There's a lot more on this in my book, and so I invite you, if you're interested, to check it out, Preparing for War, The Extremist History of White Christian Nationalism and What Comes Next, and you can find that in the show notes.
