Brad is joined by the one and only Dr. Jemar Tisby. They discuss a range of issues related to paternalism, prejudice, and power.
One of the first things Dr. Tisby points out is that compromise has often been the site of the most egregious forms of racism in American history. He then goes on to talk about the paternalism that pervaded White Christians' justification of slavery - and the ways paternalism continues to perpetuate racism today. The discussion then turns to an individualistic vs. systemic approach to thinking about oppression, and why the former is often used as a way out for doing the hard work of facing history and the present.
The Color of Compromise: The Truth About the American Church's Complicity in Racism: https://jemartisby.com/the-color-of-compromise/
The Color of Compromise is not a call to shame or a platform to blame white evangelical Christians. It is a call from a place of love and desire to fight for a more racially unified church that no longer compromises what the Bible teaches about human dignity and equality. A call that challenges black and white Christians alike to standup now and begin implementing the concrete ways Tisby outlines, all for a more equitable and inclusive environment among God's people. Starting today.
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Welcome to Straight White American Jesus.
My name is Brad Onishi, faculty at the University of San Francisco.
Our show is hosted in partnership with the Kapp Center at UCSB, and today I have a guest who I think for many of you will need no introduction, but I'm gonna give one anyway, and that is Dr. Jamar Tisby.
So, Dr. Tisby, thanks for joining me.
It's my honor.
Thanks for having me.
Let me tell folks about you.
Like I said, I think a lot of folks listening are going to know all about you, but you got a lot of accolades, and we should talk about them.
So, you B.A.
at University of Notre Dame, then went to Reform Theological Seminary, and have just in the last year here, I think, finished your Ph.D.
at the University of Mississippi in the History Department.
You are the CEO of The Witness, which is an organization dedicated to Black Uplift, and the co-host of the Pass the Mic podcast.
We're going to talk about your books.
We're going to focus on The Color of Compromise, which is a New York Times bestseller, but you're also the author of How to Fight Racism, which I believe there's a Young Readers edition that has come out just in the last couple of months.
Also writing at jamartisby.substack.com, that's your newsletter, so folks should go subscribe to that.
And I'm happy to talk more about this here in a second, but I believe you've also just released a series on CRT, and for folks who are interested in learning more about that, that is available now.
So, a lot going on, and a lot of amazing things.
I'm just so excited you're here.
Let's jump right in.
I have talked about this on the show before, and we have used your work and talked about your work in the past, but I want to jump into some of the things that stick out to me from your book, Color of Compromise, as they relate to our show.
And one of them is this.
You say something that I think is just so insightful.
You talk about how Some of the most egregious acts of racism occur within a context of compromise, and the book is really a dismantling survey of racism in American history, and especially racism in the American church.
I'm wondering how compromise has been An avenue or a vehicle for egregious forms of racism.
Oftentimes people think of compromise as two sides finding common ground and this is a way to reconcile and to agree, but in your view it's really often a way to perpetuate racism in some of its worst forms.
How does that work?
Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me.
I think our work is very similar in its goals, so this is really an honor to be on this show with you.
I think the ideas of compromise and complicity, both words are in the title, are helpful because most of the time when people think of racism, they think of the most extreme examples, right?
People wearing white robes and hoods or Nowadays, polo shirts and tiki torches, right?
And they look at that and they say, well, as long as I'm not doing that, I'm okay.
I'm not a racist.
I'm not part of the problem.
Matter of fact, some of my best friends are black.
We've heard these lines before, right?
And the reality is, while those extreme cases do exist, and they're the ones that typically make the headlines, They can't happen without the cooperation, or as I say, the complicity or the compromise of other people.
And so on that word compromise, it can be a good thing, I guess, but not when you're compromising with evil.
Not when you're compromising with racism and white supremacy.
And there's always been this sort of deal-making, just to touch on the history a little bit, right?
When European missionaries were trying to spread the faith, first of all it was a colonized version of the faith, but when they were trying to spread Christianity, they had to compromise with plantation owners.
who did not want this message to go to enslaved people because they would get all these wacky ideas about equality and liberation.
Oh no!
Right?
So what the missionaries did in terms of a compromise with the plantation owners was say, okay, let us quote-unquote preach the gospel, But we won't talk about any of this liberation stuff, and when it comes to things like baptism and the Lord's Supper, there won't be any indication that this means equality between people.
But then we can still go out and baptize folks and have church and everybody feels good, and the plantation owners are safe because their supposed property is still being exploited.
So that's what compromise and complicity You know, just one example of what it looks like.
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