Brad speaks with Dr. Khyati Joshi, author of White Christian Privilege: The Illusion of Religious Equality in America (NYU 2020).
https://nyupress.org/9781479840236/white-christian-privilege/
The United States is recognized as the most religiously diverse country in the world, and yet its laws and customs, which many have come to see as normal features of American life, actually keep the Constitutional ideal of “religious freedom for all” from becoming a reality. Christian beliefs, norms, and practices infuse our society; they are embedded in our institutions, creating the structures and expectations that define the idea of “Americanness.” Religious minorities still struggle for recognition and for the opportunity to be treated as fully and equally legitimate members of American society. From the courtroom to the classroom, their scriptures and practices are viewed with suspicion, and bias embedded in centuries of Supreme Court rulings create structural disadvantages that endure today.
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Welcome to Straight White American Jesus.
My name is Brad Onishi, faculty at the University of San Francisco, our associate in partnership with the Kapp Center at UCSB.
And today I have an incredible guest and that is Dr. Kiyoti Joshi.
And so I'm going to introduce all of Dr. Joshi's just amazing accomplishments and work in a minute, but I'll just say, Kiyoti, thank you so much for joining me today.
I am so happy to be with you.
And so, Dr. Joshi, just to introduce quickly, and there's no way to kind of go over the entire CV, but is a public intellectual whose social science research and community connections inform policymakers, educators, and everyday people about race, religion, and immigration.
Dr. Joshi is the author of numerous works, and we're going to talk about the latest one, and that is White Christian Privilege, the Illusion of Religious Equality in America.
Out from New York University Press.
Also the co-editor of the new book, Envisioning Religion, Race, and Asian Americans.
An author and co-editor of Teaching for Diversity and Social Justice, which is in its third edition.
And now is a co-investigator for a loose grant to study Asian Pacific American religious communities.
And that is going to be fantastic and just a much, much, much needed study and initiative.
So all wonderful things.
Dr. Joshi is often called upon to talk to important people, policy makers, thought leaders, politicians, business folks, and notably was presented a research on Hindu American communities at the White House and asked to speak with a 56 country organization for security and cooperation in Europe, in Vienna.
The accolades and the accomplishments go on and on and on.
So, so grateful for your time today.
So grateful that you would join us to talk about your book, which once again is called White Christian Privilege, the Illusion of Religious Equality in America, which I have to say in terms of Titles is a 10 out of 10.
Not a bad title.
Just absolutely arresting and gets to the point.
So let me start here.
One of the foundational components of the book is the idea that it's impossible to examine religion in the United States apart from race.
That race and religion are linked in this country's history.
And I think for you examining the relationship between these two, race and religion, means examining white Christian supremacy.
I think when some folks hear that term, white Christian supremacy, it sounds like a lot.
They don't know what that means.
You know, if some people just, you know, non-academics, non-specialists out there hear white supremacy, sometimes they just think, oh, is that the KKK?
And when they hear white Christian supremacy, there are folks that will say, well, okay, what does that even mean?
That seems aggressive.
So would you mind unpacking that for us just a little bit as we start here?
Sure, sure.
It is and can be jarring to hear white supremacy and white Christian supremacy for sure.
And I can understand why individuals feel like their faith is being attacked.
I'm really making a more sociological and legal, structural argument here in saying that our So often folks think, hey, if we don't bring up race, if we don't bring up religion, then we're neutral.
think, hey, if we don't bring up race, if we don't bring up religion, then we're neutral.
Well, actually, no, we're not neutral, right?
Because starting point in this country is white Christian supremacy.
But often people think, well, if we just don't talk about it, then then we're maintaining neutrality.
Actually, by not talking about it, you're continuing to promote white Christian supremacy.
I am very deliberate and intentional about using white, the phrase white Christian supremacy, because often in popular culture, on the news, wherever, when people do mention white supremacy, it's almost like Christianity is there, but we're just not saying it because we don't want to seem like but we're just not saying it because we don't want to seem like But we're going to have to name the problem in order to rectify the problem.
So we need to name it because whiteness in our country is not just about race.
It has always also been about religion.
And what I'm focused on is showing how it is showing Christianity's role in the construction of whiteness in America.
And so so we have to be talking.
About white Christian supremacy, but I completely understand why someone who especially is kind of working towards equity and justice in their communities or, you know, really loves the fact for all the diversity we have in this country can feel like they're being attacked.
But one of the reasons folks will feel like they're being attacked is because they actually don't know our real United States history.
Because if you knew that history, then you would understand why we're just actually calling it like it is.
I think that's exactly right.
And if one reads the book, you know, we're going to be able to touch upon about 6% or less or 4% or something of what's in the book in terms of that history.
And so if you read it, it's Dr. Jo, she just makes an incredible case for everything she just said about the history of white Christian supremacy.
This is something we talk a lot about on this show that There's this sort of underlying assumption that Christianity in this country is the standard and that to be a real American is to be a white Christian.
And, you know, I always kind of put it like you walk into a store and it says, no shoes, no shirt, no service.
And, you know, if you're white but not Christian, it's kind of like maybe, you know, you're not wearing shoes, but the guy lets you in the 7-Eleven anyway to buy your pack of gum and get out of there.
If you're Christian but not white, well, that's a thing.
But, you know, we might give you a pass, we might not.
If you're neither Christian nor white, you're definitely not getting in the store and we're definitely not going to consider you real American, even if we don't say it out loud, because that is the underlying assumption coming from our history and our culture.
One of the magnificent aspects of the book for me is the way you break down white Christian supremacy into different levels.
You know, if we were in class, I would say, all right, y'all, we've got three levels to think about.
We got national levels, we've got a kind of cultural level, and we've got an individual level.
So let's think about these all separately.
If we start at the national level and our laws and our policies.
You say on page four that we have Christian hegemony, right?
So, hegemony or hegemony refers to a society's unacknowledged and or unconscious adherence to a dominant worldview.
So, Christian hegemony refers to the predominance and endorsement at the national level of Christian observances, beliefs, scriptures, and manners of worship.
So I'll just ask you kind of plainly, what are the ways that Christian hegemony, this unacknowledged, unconscious adherence to a dominant worldview of Christianity, how does that organize our calendar and our work week and just other aspects of our kind of national work-a-day and policy-level organization?
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