Brad speaks with Andrew Seidel, constitutional lawyer at the Freedom From Religion Foundation and author of The Founding Myth: Why Christian Nationalism is Un-American. He explains how the Arkansas state legislature's anti-trans bill and the bill to legalize teaching creationism in schools are linked. By inserting creationism into school curricula, Seidel explains, there is the possibility of codifying the idea that there are only two sexes and two genders, which in essence codifies the exclusion of trans people. If you would like to get involved in fighting the bill, write to arklawsuit@ffrf.org.
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Axis Mundy Axis Mundy You're listening to an Irreverent Podcast.
visit irreverent.fm for more content from our amazing lineup of creators welcome to straight white american jesus My name is Brad Onishi, faculty in religion, Skidmore College.
Our show is hosted in partnership with the Kapp Center at UCSB.
I am joined today by a return guest, someone whose work I always admire and am always grateful for, and that is Andrew Seidel, Esquire.
Andrew's an attorney, constitutional attorney, and the director of strategic response at the Freedom From Religion Foundation.
His first book, The Founding Myth, Why Christian Nationalism is Un-American, came out a couple years ago.
We had him on the show to talk about it.
And it was, if you want an endorsement for this book, you're like, hey, should I get that?
It seems interesting.
You can know that it was burned on video and posted to Twitter by Greg Locke.
So if that tells you anything, I think it's a pretty good reason to actually go buy the book.
So, Andrew, thanks for coming back and thanks for being here.
Oh, it is my pleasure, Brad.
And I have to say, before we get going, I don't listen to that many podcasts, at least not regularly.
And you and Dan have just been on fire lately.
Just some really brilliant commentary and eloquently connecting these seemingly disparate dots for people.
So, really, this is a pleasure for me.
It's really kind and coming from you that means a lot and it's always it's always flattering to have the respect of your colleagues and peers and so the feeling is mutual and we wanted to have you on to talk about a piece you just wrote and that was for Religion Dispatches.
It's called Arkansas's Creationism Bill is also motivated by anti-LGBTQ bigotry.
You discuss here, and I'm going to ask you to explain these two cases, but you discuss a bill that we've talked a lot about on our show, which is an anti-trans bill in Arkansas.
And here's how you put it in your opening sentence.
The average American might not realize that the prejudices and superstitions that underlie the push to teach creationism in public schools also undergird anti-LGBTQ bigotry.
So one of the things I want to do is just connect these dots to use your language.
We have two sort of different bills.
One is on trans rights.
It's an anti-trans bill in my view.
The other is on teaching creationism in schools.
So let's start with the first one.
Can you outline just a brief summary for us on this first bill that targets the trans community?
Yeah, this is the anti-trans bill that I think probably everybody heard about a few weeks back.
It involved trans healthcare, and essentially the governor, Asa Hutchinson, who's not known for his liberal views on anything, actually vetoed this bill because it inserted the legislature in between a doctor and their patient.
And essentially, the legislature said, no, no, no, we are going to override your veto.
And we are going to insert ourself in between the doctor and these trans patients, which are in need of really sort of individualized care.
And we're going to prevent them from getting that care.
So that was the first bill.
And it was There was this kind of great moment where the governor vetoed it, and our side, the pro-equality side, thought we had had a win.
Thought we had kind of pulled one out there.
Yeah, my co-host Dan Miller actually emailed me as soon as it happened, and he's like, who knew this was going to be the good news of the day, but Asa Hutchinson just vetoed this bill, didn't see that coming.
Did not see that coming.
And then, you know, Arkansas legislature said, hold on a minute.
The other bill is one I think we have certainly not talked about it on our show and I think it's less known.
So would you talk to us about what's going on with teaching creationism in schools in Arkansas?
Yeah, the House.
Okay, so not the full legislature yet, but the same day that the legislature overrode that veto to put itself in between trans patients and their doctors, a House committee passed a bill that would allow public schools to, quote, teach creationism.
The full House got together and passed that creationism bill So you have dehumanizing trans people and indoctrinating school children in this creationist view, all in 24 hours.
But that's kind of the end timeline.
The beginning timeline is even, in my opinion, more interesting because that anti-trans bill On when it was first voted on in the House, a representative named Mary Bentley.
She is sort of the central figure in this story.
She preached a creationist sermon on the House floor, urging her colleagues to vote in favor of this anti-trans youth bill.
And she did that on March 10th.
And then the very next day, The very next day she sponsored a new bill to put creationism back into public schools.
And so for somebody like me who's a lawyer who does state church separation for a living, the idea of creationism in the public schools is laughable in a way.
Every single time it has been attempted to be put in our schools in the last century almost, it has been smacked down by the courts.
And so they went from creationism, and they said, oh, well, instead we're just going to teach the controversy.
And then the courts slapped that down.
And they said, oh, no, we're going to teach intelligent design, which is not creationism.
And the courts slapped that down.
Every single time they try to get creationism into the public schools, it gets knocked down.
And this is not a new attempt.
They're going back to the beginning.
Just straight up, good old-fashioned religion where we're going to put creationism into the public schools.
They're not even trying to mask it or smuggle it in in some other way.
I think there's a good, you point this out in the article, there's a good reason to understand the timing here is important.
But before we even talk about that, I want to ask about, I think what many folks are going to wonder is, okay, so how does teaching creationism somehow inspire anti-LGBTQ bigotry?
Like, how is the trans bill and the creationism bill linked?
Yeah, I mean, and that is kind of the big question, and that is what I wanted to draw out in this article, because I think a lot of people don't understand that a lot of LGBTQ bigotry is either motivated and or justified by the Bible.
And in this case, when Mary Bentley gives that speech on the floor on March 10th, she quotes the Bible five different times.
You know, she talks about, it's Psalms 139, that Yahweh formed your innermost being, shaping your delicate insides, weaving them together.
You can see where she's going with this already, right?
God made you who you are, and he only makes men male, female, so anything beyond that is anti-God.
Anti-creationism.
She quotes Genesis 1.27, which is, you know, kind of that famous one, God made them male and female.
He made them... everybody knows that one.
Deuteronomy 22.5, which says that if a man wears a woman's clothes or a woman wears a man's clothes, it's, quote, an abomination to the Lord.
Right?
I mean, so she is using the biblical idea of creation To justify LGBTQ bigotry.
She actually also posted her speech.
So she gave the speech, she introduced the creationism bill the next day, and then she posted the speech on Facebook the day after that, all in this sort of three-day period to reiterate her points.
So, I mean, she really does draw this clear connection for us.
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