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May 8, 2025 - Stew Peters Show
01:00:14
Millstone Report w Paul Harrell: Charles Haywood Explains “Woke Right” is Really “Effective Right"
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And welcome to the Millstone Report.
Thank you so much for being with us, as always.
We can't do this program without you watching every single day.
I want to remind everybody out there, this portion of the program brought to you by Red Vive Health.
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So, question.
What actually is the woke right?
I mean, we know what wokeism is.
I talk all the time about, you know, the woke sex religion of the left, and it very much is so.
They're woke, and they're also obsessed with sex and, you know, turning our children into perverts and putting them on a path to hell.
But what is this phrase that some people are trying to make happen called the woke right?
One of the main guys that's trying to make that happen is an atheist by the name of James Lindsay.
And to talk more about this, and I'm sure a whole lot more, I wanted to invite our friend Charles Haywood, business owner, Charles Haywood, back on the program.
We really appreciate it, sir.
Thank Love being here.
First of all, I want to also remind everybody that you do incredible book reviews over at your website, theworthyhouse.com.
I understand you've been reading up on Russian railroads.
Is that right?
My most recent review, I'm actually a couple weeks behind.
I haven't published anything for like two weeks, and normally I'm fairly prolific, so I need to get back on the horn.
But I actually reviewed my father's book from 25 years ago, My Father is Dead.
But he was a historian of Russian Railways.
So a non-political book review about the building of the St. Petersburg-Moscow Railway in the late 1840s.
That's fascinating.
I'm glad that you read those books so I don't have to.
I just don't have the mind to sit down and read it as much as you do.
But it's good, and it's a great website, and I encourage everybody out there to check it out.
So, first of all, What do you know about this atheist James Lindsay?
I saw that you had a tweet several, I guess...
I guess on May 6th, so yesterday, I'm going to throw this up on the screen so we can see it here.
You tweeted, What did you mean by that, Charles?
Lindsay is one of these tireless self-promoters slash grifters who, as you probably know, came to prominence five or six years ago when he submitted some articles to a scientific journal that were gibberish but written in a leftist frame and they were accepted for publication.
And so he achieved some prominence on the right as a result of that.
And in fact, I was actually at a dinner, a small dinner with people with him shortly after there.
After that time, he's just forgotten that he used to hang out with me.
But Lindsay is one of these guys who makes a living out of this.
That is, he makes a living out of attempting to convince mostly elderly boomer women that he is the purveyor of hidden knowledge about the left.
And more generally about the world.
And when there was money to be made attacking the left, that's where he focused.
But now that the right is at least to some degree in the ascendant, he's decided that there's money to be made on the side, money and prominence, because a guy like this feeds off of public attention by attacking what he's named the woke right, which is nothing more than the effective right.
That is, any segment of the right that wants actual right-wing things as opposed to something that Bill Clinton would want.
No one has ever been able to name to me a single thing.
That Bill Clinton would find acceptable in 1998 that James Lindsay would not also find acceptable, or the converse of that.
He's basically just a Clintonian liberal, and now he's appalled that the right wing is actually potentially pushing back on the hegemony of the left, and he sees that he can make money on this.
And so he runs around using a bunch of big words and promising that don't really mean anything if you focus on them and promising hidden knowledge to people if they listen to him and subscribe to whatever kind of scam he has going on.
Yeah, you do hear that a lot.
You mentioned Clinton, so obviously he was president during the 90s.
That was many of my formative years.
And so you hear this, hey, we just want to go back to the 90s.
You have this idea that...
And I've heard Joe Rogan even say this, right?
Like, they look at transing kids and calling it health care, and they say, that's evil, that's wrong, that's nonsense.
But when you say, yeah, but how did we get here?
We got here, it was a slippery slope.
We were still doing wicked things in the 90s that led us to the current state of evil we're calling good in our society right now, weren't we?
Absolutely.
This position is inherently unstable because the premises that James Lindsay and his co-something or others rely on and believe in are indistinguishable from the premises of the...
Harder score leftists.
They just draw an arbitrary line basically based upon their own personal feelings of what is a good idea or what is kind of socially acceptable, probably based upon their age and their family situation or what have you.
But intellectually, there's no difference.
The one thing that interests me particularly about Lindsay, though, is that unlike someone like Rogan, Lindsay doesn't have an audience.
As far as I can tell, 90% of Lindsay's audience, other than the boomer women who pay for supposedly hidden knowledge, is people like you and me.
That is, Lindsay wouldn't get any traffic.
If you go to Blue Sky and you search for James Lindsay, no one on the left is talking about James Lindsay.
Certainly no one in the Trump administration is talking about James Lindsay.
It's this kind of internal circle jerk.
I don't know if I can say that on the show.
A circle jerk of people who are basically making money off of creating these bogus controversies and pretending they're more important than they are.
I mean, I'm all for talking about James Lindsay, and this is interesting, but really the smart move would be for no one on the right to talk about James Lindsay ever, and then James Lindsay would go away, and we wouldn't have this problem anymore of having to waste our time on it.
So, I'm guilty, yes.
I set the topic for the interview.
I treated it, but it's such low-hanging fruit, but it's like beating a retard.
Right?
I mean, at some point, what's the point here?
I mean, yeah, it sharpens our intellectual acumen and makes us understand what our own premises are and why they differ from left-wing people like Lindsay.
And it's fun to make fun of his stupid predictions, which are all tendentious and aimed towards his political goals, which are increasing atheism and left-wing behavior.
But I mean, at some point, maybe we shouldn't be doing this.
Yes, I agree.
So we're going to do it today.
All right.
So let's check out this clip.
This is the one making the rounds.
You've got James Lindsay.
He sits down with Jordan Peterson.
Who's kind of been on this bandwagon along with Douglas Murray when he went on Rogan, talking about credentialism a little bit.
I think that's safe to say.
Here is this 30-second clip that has kind of made the rounds over on Christian Circles and Acts.
Take a listen to this.
So I want to talk about this Lucifer idea.
So Lucifer is the morning star, and he's the angel of the untrammeled intellect.
That's how he's portrayed in Milton.
Right.
And he's allied in some strange way with the serpent in the Garden of Eden.
If I might just interject, if he's the morning star, what do you do in the morning?
After the morning star rises, you wake up.
Right.
Woke.
Right.
So this clip, I mean, and I said this yesterday, I'm a fan of just kind of throwing data points out there and, you know, you let the audience connect the dots.
But, I mean, the data points have to at least have some relation to one another for you to do that.
That seems like quite a leap, doesn't it?
I mean, I don't even know where to begin on the insanity level and without even getting into the sad decline of Jordan Peterson.
I mean, you know, and leaving aside this kind of bizarre non sequitur, Milton's Lucifer is neither Christian doctrine nor aligned with any Christian doctrine that I'm aware of.
I mean, Milton made up the story about Lucifer out of whole cloth.
So Peterson's premise is that that's somehow a Christian belief about Lucifer and the Morning Star.
I mean, the frame is all wrong.
And of course, what Lindsay takes from that is a bizarre, like...
Auditory hallucination where he's all focused on woke and he connects that to waking up.
But this is what everything that Lindsay says is like this.
It's like that meme where the crazy guy is sitting there with the pinboard covered with yarn.
That's all James Lindsay is.
But he appeals to a certain he appeals to the midwit.
Someone who thinks or more likely she thinks That she's smart and there's hidden knowledge and that hidden knowledge is something that she has.
And James Lindsay, she's grateful to James Lindsay because she paid him some money and now he's explained it all to her.
I mean, it used to be that people like this were known as hysterics and told to go to their room with a cold compress.
Now they give James Lindsay money.
Well, so the first time that I even ran into James on the Internet, it was last year.
He doesn't know who I am at all, I'm pretty sure, but he was fighting anybody that was talking about either openly naming the phrase Christian nationalism or if they were...
pushing for this idea of, like you said, the effective right or people saying, if you're a criminal, Christian and you become a dog catcher, be a Christian dog catcher or state representative, like Christians reasserting themselves in politics.
And he claimed for months on end, because I was following it just because I couldn't believe it, but he claimed for months on end that it was some sort of fed back, backed op that was essentially going to...
It was going to do the work for the feds.
The feds wanted to crack down on Christians, maybe want to put us in boxcars, and we're going right along with it because we're listening to people like a Dr. Stephen Wolf.
Were you familiar with that?
Because that was the first time I saw it, and I thought, man, that just seems preposterous that there are forces that are overtly anti-Christian, and we're just supposed to not do anything about it, not try to reassert ourselves, not try to organize.
That seemed like an odd to me.
I'd forgotten that, and it's kind of part and parcel of this thing with my tweet about two years ago where he said Christians needed to not complain about pervert month because if they did, the government was going to get us all.
And by extension, they were also going to get people who were associated with Christians like James Lindsay, who was obviously not a Christian.
But all of this actually has a very simple explanatory mechanism, which is that the...
Lindsay wants people who are on the effective right, whether they're Christians or not, to have no ability to implement anything they want in real life.
And creating these weird fictions as a way of frightening and distracting people is an effective way to do that.
Plus, it gets James Lindsay attention.
He did an entire podcast on me one time.
It was over an hour.
And he did another whole thread on me on Twitter two weeks ago, which I didn't know about.
He's blocked me.
I didn't get any traffic to my website or anything.
Zero.
So I don't think anyone's listening.
But if you do sit down and listen to it, it's the most insane stuff ever.
But it's couched in this...
Pseudo-philosophical jargon that is meant to impress people with how smart James Lindsay is.
But if you just poke at it a little bit, you're like, what does that mean?
I mean, it means nothing.
It's like that Lewis Carroll poem, Twas Brillig and the Slithy Toves.
You know, this nonsense poem.
It's just nonsense that he says, nonsense, nonsense, nonsense, conclusion.
And it doesn't even bear engagement with because it's completely insane.
I mean, I don't even know what to do with it.
I mean, it's just silly.
Yeah, this idea of the woke right, I think that you hit the nail on the head earlier when you said this is really an attack in many ways on the effective right.
the right that wants to actually use the political power that we get to, I'll say it, winnow our enemies, to drive their ideas out of town on a rail, to actually win and actually conserve something.
Whatever the word conservative means anymore, certainly we haven't, or the people before us, haven't conserved anything, right?
Exactly.
I mean, I've been doing this.
I'm in my 50s now.
I can remember growing up with William F. Buckley, who I'm always complaining about because he didn't conserve anything.
And he was a Judas, ultimately.
It didn't seem so at the time.
But Lindsay wants that 40, 50, 60-year history of the American right or American conservatives not being able to do anything to continue because he's not in any way on the right.
And so I'm, I think, fairly well known for my philosophy of no enemies on the right.
But the reason I don't spend my time attacking James Lindsay, except for occasional tweets, isn't because I don't want to attack him because he's on the right, because he's on the left.
He's clearly on the left.
I just think it's a waste of time to spend attacking him because he doesn't actually have any...
He's a guy on the left who has no following on the left, and all the oxygen he gets comes from people on the right.
Yeah, well...
I guess, again, I'm guilty of that.
I think it's an interesting topic.
That's why I put up tweets on it.
I'm as guilty as the next guy.
If you think about it, it's a neat little grift that he's put together.
He has this sidekick, Michael O 'Fallon.
This kind of fat guy who is always retweeting his stuff and attacking people who...
It's a whole little ecosystem of these people who have some kind of financial arrangement under the hood where this is their livelihood.
It's not like James Lindsay has ever done anything that made him money in his life other than stuff like this.
Wow.
This is the first I'm hearing of the...
I mean, obviously, I guess you have to assume that there's some sort of financial component to all this.
I think, you know, with a lot of things at this point on the Internet, if you have a show, that's what it is.
Obviously, we sell ads and stuff on this program.
Well, okay.
Well, let me just shift gears while I have you.
Because I follow you on X, obviously.
I think your most recent tweet right before we came on was lamenting the ending of the term of the phrase master bedroom.
They've now switched it to primary bedroom, I guess, because they don't want to offend the ancestors of slaves.
So you're a great follow.
I say all that to say you're a great follow over on X, Charles.
But I really appreciate your political takes.
What do you make of the current situation right now?
We're now over the 100-day mark of the Trump administration, and we have a Congress.
I just saw where Mike Johnson is going to be calling a four-day weekend.
They were supposed to have some votes.
I mean, out of all the things that you're supportive that Trump has done, it does need to be put into law, doesn't it?
And right now, it just seems like Congress is dragging their feet.
A lot of it does.
I mean, there's some things that are within the president's exclusive purview, typically military things, though, as we've seen, obviously, the courts are attempting to interfere with that, but that won't hold up even within the kind of left-wing Roberts court framework.
I think that hoping for Congress to do anything is a forlorn hope, because Congress is full of, you know...
Cowardly losers.
And the chances that they're going to enshrine Trump's agenda and legislation strike me as low, and that leaves aside the filibuster in the Senate.
And no doubt that's why Trump has gone down this executive power path.
The most useful thing Congress could do at this point is to dial back the federal judiciary, which it's explicit in the Constitution that Congress can remove topics from the jurisdiction of the federal courts, The Supreme Court, probably, but definitely any other lower court.
I mean, Congress can pass a law tomorrow saying no federal court other than the Supreme Court may hear any case related to presidential powers.
Period.
The end.
I mean, it's in black and white in the Constitution that Congress can pass that law.
They're not going to, of course, but they could do something useful like that.
But instead, they're going to spend all their time maundering about and doing useless things, unless I'm very much mistaken.
Sadly, that's just the way it is.
Well, I know the last time we had you on, we talked a lot about the overactive judiciary.
We were Cromwell maxing together, thinking about Oliver Cromwell.
There are, it seems to me, I feel like from the last interview we did to now, I think there are even more people saying...
That the executive branch just needs to ignore these court decisions.
They haven't yet, at least from what I can tell.
Do you have any new thoughts on that in the state of things?
No new thoughts, sadly.
I think we're waiting to see what happens.
I'm a glass-half-full guy, certainly, on the Trump administration in general.
I think that complaining about Trump's not doing this or not doing that or not doing something aggressively enough, given that six months ago...
Really no one on the right expected Trump to do, was really hopeful that Trump would do anything particularly useful or aggressive.
And he came out of the gate releasing the political prisoners from the electoral justice protest.
So I'm very bullish on Trump.
He may not be able to accomplish what he wants, but I think sitting around complaining about it is a mistake.
One should not make the perfect enemy of the good, and as Bismarck said, politics.
Is the art of the possible?
But as far as the judiciary, I don't have any new thoughts.
I think we're waiting to see how that plays out.
Well, I really appreciate you coming on.
It's always great to talk to you, and I appreciate you indulging me wanting to talk about this.
James Lindsay jumps to conclusions.
It's like crack.
We know it's bad for us, but we can't help it.
Well, I mean, you just got to look at this real quick.
I mean, William Wolfe...
I think he's done an excellent job of...
There's so many, okay?
So if I may interject, Lucifer is the angel of light.
When you exit the light, you enter night.
And what do you do when the Sandman comes?
Sleep with one eye open, gripping your pillow tight?
Eye open, which means you're awake, woke.
Josh Dawes has one.
If I may, William Wolfe affirms the Nicene Creed.
And Creed is famous for the song With Arms Wide Open.
You know, what else is wide open?
Your eyes when you wake up.
Woke.
And then Arne McIntyre has a really funny one on Santa.
And then there's this one.
Of course Gandalf said, look to my coming at first light on the fifth day.
At dawn, look to the east.
You know what else happens at dawn?
You wake up.
Woke.
Charles, it was hard.
I mean, it's just hard not to talk about it.
I know we probably should just ignore it.
It's a great topic.
Not criticizing it at all.
Well, hey, I appreciate you being on the show, sir.
Thank you so much.
And let's do it again soon, sir.
I would really appreciate it.
Talk to you soon.
All right, folks.
Back in just a second.
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All right, welcome back from break.
We do appreciate you being with us.
You know, it is always...
I always have a great time when Charles Haywood comes on the program.
We really always appreciate him for his time and his insights, and I think that's obvious.
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Okay, so, first off, I guess to kind of put an exclamation point on what we were just talking about with Charles Haywood about this, you know, fantasy called the woke right.
It's, you know, to kind of...
I would say as a supplement to what we were just talking about.
Interesting that Jack Posobiec recently put this out because The Atlantic is now attacking Pat Buchanan, the late great Pat Buchanan, saying this headline, The Godfather of the Woke Right, a 2011 book by Pat Buchanan, shows the deep roots of today's right-wing illiberalism.
So, this is certainly something, it is a leftist tactic, and it's all it really is, because the word racist has lost its power.
It is a new way of calling people racist, from what I can tell.
That's one of the things that's going on.
Alright, so, moving on.
News broke yesterday that President Donald Trump...
Has withdrawn the nomination of Janet Nishwet for Surgeon General and replaced her with Casey Means.
Casey Means has been making the podcast rounds, for what I can tell, over the last year.
She famously went on Tucker Carlson, her and her brother Callie.
So you have Casey Means and her brother Callie Means.
They went on Tucker Carlson and they talked about all of the, basically, they talked about big food.
They talked about how food is poisoned in our country and how it's leading to chronic health problems, which I 100% agree with.
They mentioned the fact that back when the whole country went against the tobacco companies, that the tobacco companies had basically just a plethora of scientists.
Who were only there for one reason, is that to figure out how to make cigarettes even more addicting than they already were.
Or some people say, when you take the chemicals out, nicotine isn't addictive at all, or tobacco isn't as addictive, but they put all the chemicals, the ammonia, in the cigarettes.
But the nation turned on big tobacco, and so...
These big tobacco companies with giant purses of money started to buy food companies.
And the allegation is that they used those scientists, they used the stable of scientists they have to start looking at food and how can we now make food addictive and unhealthy.
And so, I mean, it really, I believe those are true, accurate statements.
I really do.
I understand that our food is toxic and poison.
But you see the lower third here says that Casey Means Pick draws praise and rage.
And rage may be a strong word, but I was running out of room.
So criticism wouldn't fit, so I used rage.
I'm just being transparent here.
But interestingly enough, we're going to get to some people that love this pick on the right.
There's other people on the right that don't like this pick, and we're going to tell you who those people are.
First, I think it's interesting that this is maybe a more nuanced part of the story.
That is not being talked about.
But the previous nominee for Surgeon General, Janet Neshowitt, was actually the sister-in-law for Mike Waltz.
I'm sorry, the brother-in-law.
So her brother-in-law is Mike Waltz.
We're talking about the ousted former National Security Advisor who's now kind of been put out to pasture at the United Nations, which is running out of money.
And so my first speculation when I...
Saw that this was a replacement pick.
I mean, Neshowitt was not a good pick.
Neshowitt stoked the disapproval of, I think, most everybody on the right thought that Neshowitt was a terrible pick.
And I'm wondering that as Mike Waltz was shown the pasture.
And he was sent to cool off at the United Nations.
He loved globalism so much.
Well, why don't you just go to the United Nations?
That'd be a good fit for you, Mike.
I don't know.
Maybe that's what a fly on the wall heard in the White House.
Who knows?
That this was also a result of what Mike Waltz did.
Did Neshowitt lose the nomination?
Just a question.
Did Neshowitt lose the nomination because of Mike Waltz?
I think the answer may be yes.
So that's just a little bit of background on this.
But let's get to some criticism and some praise.
Steve Kirsch, who is extremely critical about the jab, he says, I disagree with Dr. Malone.
Kelly Victory would have been the ideal choice.
She is who RFK Jr. wanted in the job, but Trump is calling the shots.
Okay, so Robert Malone, who is the admitted creator of mRNA technology, according to multiple interviews he did, he's a fan.
Robert Malone says, Casey Means for Surgeon General, what a great choice.
Steve Kirsch, though, says RFK Jr. is not calling the shots here.
I know this was not his first choice.
You have Mary Talley Bowden saying, shouldn't the Surgeon General at least have an active medical license?
So there are people saying that that should be disqualifying.
And then Mary Talley Bowden says that his first choice was actually Dr. Kelly Victory.
And I think she said that she was hanging out with her recently and that she fully expected to get the nomination, but then she didn't.
Then you have Laura Loomer reporting that President Trump's pick for U.S. Surgeon General Casey Means said she prays to inanimate objects, communicates with spirit mediums, uses shrooms as plant medicine, and talks to trees.
She also doesn't even have an active medical license.
And Loomer has a ton of receipts, and she's made multiple posts on that.
She's not happy with the pick.
Senator Rand Paul is very pleased, though.
Senator Rand Paul says that he thinks that this will be a great pick for the next Surgeon General.
You've got Betty Johnson posting a positive clip.
This is her from Bill Maher.
So more than a health epidemic, which is what we have in this country, I mean, health is getting destroyed in the United States, which we don't really talk about because it's not profitable to heal in this country.
It's profitable to keep people sick and then drug them.
To drug them, cut them, and bill them, which is what we learn how to do.
And really what we have here is a disconnection crisis.
And the healthcare crisis is one branch of that tree.
We're disconnecting the body into a hundred separate parts and not seen as a unified system.
And we're disconnecting the body from the environmental conversation, which actually we're really one and the same.
You know, we are totally connected to nature and in destroying nature through the pesticides and the way we're treating animals, our health is a reflection of what we're doing to the earth.
Okay, our health is a reflection.
Okay, so there's a lot there.
You can talk about, you know, big ag.
You can talk about GMOs.
You can talk about, you know, our food supply being poisoned.
This is great, but what about big pharma?
What about the medical-industrial complex?
It seems to be kind of a diminished...
What I think is going on, and I tweeted this earlier...
I think generally speaking, if you were to just tell me, blank slate, hey, there's going to be a Surgeon General that believes the food supply is poison and we need to fix it, I'm going to be good with that.
I think that's positive and that's great.
But from what I can tell, I feel like Big Pharma is throwing big food and big agriculture under the bus to give...
To give the nation a scalp to try to put us back to sleep.
And then when the coast is clear, Big Pharma will continue making people sick.
Big Pharma will continue to promote endless amounts of drugs that just treat symptoms.
And I honestly think it's a scapegoat.
I mean, it's definitely a comprehensive problem, but I think they're going to scapegoat Big Food to avoid...
Big Pharma having to admit that they are the ones making it sick, whether it's their medicine, whether it's their shots, whatever the case may be.
I feel like that's what's really going on here.
And you can see good in it, but you can also see, and this is just the way the world works, right?
I mean, we have a system where there are competing agendas, and I may not like it.
I don't.
But that appears to me to be...
What is actually going on here?
You have Big Pharma and Big Food, and Big Pharma wants to throw Big Food under the bus, right?
The problem is Froot Loops, but the problem isn't just Froot Loops, okay?
So, interestingly enough, Nicole Shanahan, who is a recent Christian convert, Nicole Shanahan, who was RFK Jr.'s running mate in the presidential campaign for vice president, She says, yes, it's very strange.
Doesn't make any sense about this pick.
I was promised that if I supported RFK Jr. in his Senate confirmation, that neither of these siblings would be working under HHS.
Neither of them, meaning Casey or Callie.
That neither of these siblings would be working under HHS or in an appointment and that people much more qualified would be.
She writes, I don't know if RFK very clearly lied to me or what is going on.
It has been clear in recent conversations that he is reporting to someone regularly who is controlling his decisions, and it isn't President Trump.
With regards to the siblings, there is something very artificial and aggressive about them, almost like they were bred and raised Manchurian assets.
I like where Nicole Shanahan's brain is out more and more the more I read her.
That's a strong accusation.
Now, this was in a response to a tweet by Dr. Suzanne Humphreys talking about Dr. Jack Cruz.
She writes, Dr. Jack Cruz tried to tell us Mary Talley Bowden was on the podcast too.
She knows the deal with means.
Let's see how it all pans out.
I can't help but think this is a very carefully groomed and selected person, just about no clinical experience, talks a great game about everything but vaccines, feels all wrong.
Why?
There were so many better choices.
Okay, then again we have another clip from Benny Johnson.
Here's President Trump's new Surgeon General pick.
Again, another positive clip of her.
Listen.
You would think that the American healthcare system and our government agencies would be clamoring to fix metabolic health and reduce American suffering and costs.
But they're not.
They are deafeningly silent about metabolic dysfunction and its known causes.
It's not an overstatement to say that I learned virtually nothing at Stanford Medical School about the tens of thousands of scientific papers that elucidate these root causes of why American health is plummeting and how environmental factors are causing it.
Well, of course not, right?
In medical schools, we all know.
And that's a huge problem.
There's goalposts.
Doctors are taught to be analytical thinkers, and it's based on within this box.
You can think about, analyze these medical problems, analyze the sickness, analyze the illness, but you're really just a rep for big pharma drugs.
There's very few critical thinkers left in medicine.
Surgeons are certainly...
I would exclude them for that.
Most surgeons that I know, because it's mechanical, because you've got to get in with your hands, you've got to know, they are the ones that actually still maintain critical thinking skills for the most part.
But other doctors, from what I can tell, many doctors believe themselves to be critical thinkers.
But they are, in fact, not.
They are just analytical thinkers, and they lack a healthy skepticism of government power.
They lack a healthy skepticism of medicine and what they're being fed down the trough.
But again, what about the medical-industrial complex?
Okay, so you've got Rand Paul as a fan.
There's other conservative influencers like Benny Johnson who is a fan.
Here's another clip of her when she was on the Tucker Carlson podcast we talked about earlier with her brother.
The thing that is so imperative for people to understand is that the reasons we're having surgery, the reasons why we're getting sick, the reasons why American competitiveness is plummeting, the reasons why our kids are...
Chronically ill, half of the kids in America are chronically ill, are all from preventable issues.
So if you're a doctor who's not spending any time on focusing on that, then unfortunately, for better or worse, you are bankrolling on the problem.
Again, great point.
I agree.
But it's not just the food.
So here's the podcast that we were mentioning earlier.
This is a podcast from Danny Jones.
So this was...
This was, I guess, earlier this year.
This clip was a best-of clip that was put on January 10th, 2025.
This is Dr. Jack Cruz.
This is Callie Means, Casey's brother.
And also Dr. Mary Bowden.
All on the show with Danny Jones.
It was a three-hour podcast.
This is just an hour clip.
I've got a few highlights.
But listen to Mary Bowden.
As she tries to get Cali Means to call for the end of the COVID vaccine.
Listen to this.
I mean, we are coming off of the biggest public health crisis in our lifetime.
And, you know, while I completely agree with your message, I mean, our food supply has a lot to be desired.
It's an insidious...
Health problem that's poisoning our kids.
I completely agree with that.
But the shots are a more immediate and dangerous threat to...
So they've blotted out obviously the word COVID because they don't want YouTube to censor the episode.
Our population.
Children are still getting the shot today.
All babies.
Wait.
All babies.
All babies.
This is our own government.
We are recommended to get three mRNA shots, and this is synthetic modified mRNA shots, by the time they're nine months old.
Right.
Which is crazy.
And we know that we have an abundance of data.
We have over 3,400 peer-reviewed published studies showing adverse reactions.
We know that in young people, the increased risk of myocarditis is at least four times.
This is an immediate threat, and these COVID shots should have been pulled off the market a long time ago.
And my feeling is that if you have a large microphone and you are in the public health space, that you are ethically obligated to speak out about this issue.
And I understand that this is not your issue.
And we've talked about this.
I mean, the trans problem is not my issue.
But I authentically feel that this gender modification in children is wrong.
So I do speak out about it.
I authentically feel that in any way pushing jabs, particularly on kids, is an absolute war crime, and I've been saying that.
Do you feel like the COVID shots should be pulled off the market?
So that is not a policy stance that I'm going to say.
It's not a policy stance, Bobby.
Are you giving your children a shot?
Are you going to give your children a shot?
No, no.
Okay, why not?
I think that that makes no sense.
So why does Callie Means, the brother of Casey Means, why, if he won't give his own children the shot, why won't he call for it to be taken off the market?
And the only reason I could think of is because he would offend people that he's not supposed to offend.
Again, what I believe to be happening here is that Big Pharma is trying to scapegoat all of the health problems this country faces on big food and big agriculture.
And I don't think I'm wrong about this.
I could be wrong, but I don't think that I am.
Because you have reluctance about their safety.
Hold on.
Right?
Hold on.
Can I respond to this?
Yeah.
This issue of over-prescribing medications for kids, the schedule for kids, specifically...
Hold on.
You seem to be drawing a line of whether I'm calling for an immediate ban as a policy platform versus what I'm saying.
Or personally.
Just personally.
Can you say personally?
Personally, I think it's an absolute travesty how we've been misled, how these were fast-tracked.
Personally, do you feel like the chat should be pulled off the market?
Yes or no?
I'll give you my personal opinion.
I think there should be absolutely no mandates.
So, yes.
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Okay.
I think that we have an opportunity in the next year to truly reset science.
This is what I feel.
And we have an opportunity to have Jay Bhattacharya, who's a close friend, who I strongly push to be at the NIH, to call everyone together.
Review the science, have truth and reconciliation, bring that out to people, and have a process for that.
I think it's a general...
So the answer is no.
The answer is no.
That is a policy position that I'm calling for the thoughts to be immediately pulled from the market.
No, you're not answering the question.
You're doing exactly what your training has told you to do.
Hold on, Jack.
I'm sorry, Jack.
Jack, Jack.
Jack.
Jack.
I am saying that as a policy position, I think that we should have absolute data transparency.
Okay, Danny just had Kevin McKiernan on the damn podcast.
Let me talk.
Jack, you let me talk now.
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
You let me talk.
Let me ask you a question.
So you guys should watch this entire thing because it's fascinating.
I've got one more clip I'm going to play.
But it's incredible.
It's incredibly cringeworthy.
How he won't come out and say it.
So there's a clear divide here.
This is a clear divide here between big food and big...
And these are competing interests.
Now, Jay Bhattacharya is a good pick.
And they go on to Bowden and Cruz go on to say that because he is on record saying...
I believe he's on record saying that they need to be...
I think they say that.
Bhattacharya says it does need to be pulled off the market.
So it's not that everything going on in NIH or HHS is totally all or lost, but they talk about warp speed right here.
This was a fascinating...
So towards the end of this hour highlight clip, they talk about Operation Warp Speed, and they get to talking about Dr. Oz eventually, so you'll have to bear with me here.
And Dr. Jack Cruz thinks Oz is a terrible pick and that he's a World Economic Forum stooge, and then seems to insinuate...
So is Cali Means.
And he's sitting right there across from him.
You can see that.
So bear with me.
Listen to this part.
Morp speed, right?
Trump and all of the advisors and everybody that he has put in positions of power other than Jay Bhattacharya has said on X that he agrees that the shot should be pulled off the market because he signed the Hope Accord, although the Hope Accord does not have it on their website.
But other than that, everybody, you know, look at the Surgeon General pick.
I mean, that's a nightmare.
And Dr. Oz is a complete nightmare.
Okay, so they're talking about Nesuit, who was a nightmare, and now Callie Means Sister Casey has gotten the nomination, right?
Actually, I'll just be the first one to say this.
I love the Dr. Osmond.
Oh, you do?
Yeah, because centralized medicine, what better way to blow it up than to put a World Economic Forum guy in charge of it?
Okay.
I think Dr. Oz is going to be extraordinary.
You do?
Wait, why?
Do you think it's possible that a lot of these people, these high-level people in politics, and Bobby included, from what you alluded to for your first conversation with Bobby and Rick, that they aren't educated on any of this stuff?
And if they aren't educated on any of this stuff, for example...
There's no excuse at this point.
This is the biggest bubble of the hell event in our lifetime.
You should be up to speed, especially if you're going to have power and a microphone.
Totally.
You have to be.
You missed something while we were joking here.
I actually made a joke about Dr. Oz, and he actually thought it was a good pick.
And guess what?
That fits with my concerns.
Well, Jack, I think that the picks Bobby made are...
So just right there, I just want to say, to me, that fits with my concerns.
I feel like Dr. Cruz here is insinuating that Oz is WEF and that Kelly Means is WEF, too.
That's the tension that I feel just watching this podcast.
Again, Danny Jones.
So Bobby made these picks, not Trump?
No, no, no.
I think the picks President Trump made.
Yeah, I think the picks President Trump made are very strong.
And I think, you know, this is just my opinion.
I think we have people that are aligned with the vision that Bobby and President Trump painted during the campaign.
And that's the reason why I said before that I'm no longer on Bobby's train.
I'm cut out.
Mary's saying here, I had a lot of hope.
And I will tell you that when Bobby got law-fared, Nicole got law-fared, if you go back and listen to the Rick Rubin podcast, Bobby laid his vision out right there about how he's going to do it because he's an attorney and I'm going to go sue everybody like I've done before, like we did with Monsanto.
And the funny thing is, I said to Bobby, it's not going to work.
And I said, I think you need to listen to what Bukele did.
We need to put a constitutional amendment in it and take all the...
And criminals out of the mix to begin with.
And he said, Jack, that's great, but not even DeSantis could pass that kind of law in Florida.
But then...
Well, I will say in Tennessee, they're about to propose a bill to ban the sale and distribution of all mRNA.
Tennessee may be the first.
Well, I just got a call from one of the people, a governor, who this may be a very interesting point to bring up, especially with him.
To show you just how what happened in Trump's last term could actually be helpful.
And this may be really big for you in Texas.
So you know that Trump took a lot of shit in his first term about abortion.
And remember, since abortion is not mentioned in the Constitution, the states have to go by the Tenth Amendment.
So it's a fascinating podcast.
They're basically going on to say, look, individual states need to pass a ban on mRNA technology.
Because abortion isn't anywhere in the Constitution, so it goes back to the states via the Tenth Amendment.
Also, the idea of medical freedom, nowhere in the Constitution either, so it should be a states issue as well.
That very much might be a viable path in some of these Christian red states.
They might actually be able to get it done to protect the populace.
I don't know.
But you see my point.
My broader point still remains.
This is a special interest war.
And I think if you look at Dr. Cruz here or you look at Dr. Mary Bowden, they want it all.
They want it all exposed.
They want it all admitted about what the medical industrial complex, not just Anthony Fauci, which he's obviously a big part, but all of it.
All of the systematic death that big food, big ag, and big pharma has brought.
And they want an honest accountability, an honest...
I don't know about...
You can't have reconciliation until you actually have justice.
But that appears to be.
And there are people now who are in the position now to pull punches.
And to give us some scalps, which I'm grateful for.
Look, it's good.
It's fantastic that you have somebody saying...
I mean, I never thought...
They'd get the dyes out of foods.
Because it's just considered a conspiracy theory.
I never thought that you would admit, okay, yeah, these are terrible, they're causing cancer, this is poison.
I never thought that it would actually happen in my lifetime.
I thought you're just going to have to continue to shop at the grocery store with a lot of trepidation and a lot of really careful label reading, which we still need to do.
But there's got to be a way to restore the trust.
But what the Means Brothers, or the Means Brother and Sister, I think they are representing Big Pharma, and I think they are going to attack Big Food and try to fix the chronic health.
But I think Big Pharma is throwing Big Food under the bus as a sacrificial lamb so that Big Pharma can continue with...
You know, for strong, I mean, I just don't feel like I can, the most accurate, the most accurate phrase, you might think it's provocative, but I think it's bioterrorism.
So they can continue with their bioterrorism.
I say all that to say the Lord in heaven is in control of all of this and of all of the affairs of men.
I'm just putting data points out there and giving you my opinion.
It's probably not worth very much.
So, we are about out of time today.
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Yeah, we're about out of time.
I was going to get into the James O 'Keefe thing.
Hey, briefly, I don't have time to get into it right now.
But the James O 'Keefe story, I was waiting all day for it.
And then it drops.
And I just thought, you know, it's about Prince Andrew molesting underage girls.
Royal family confidant confessing all.
Yeah, I knew the whole time.
Well, he claims he was lied to, but...
And I thought, is this really the story that James O 'Keefe thought that he was going to get murdered over?
I mean, I know James O 'Keefe has a...
And I like a lot of the work that he's done in the past, and I get it.
He has a mind for the theatrics, you know?
But this story doesn't seem right with me.
This story with James O 'Keefe, there's something missing here.
I mean, I know now we're going to wait.
For now, there's more stories.
But the teaser trailer that was eight seconds long, there was Pfizer, there was Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein, and then there was this blonde lady that was in the footage for a second.
And then Alex Jones came out and said he had spoken with James O 'Keefe, and Alex Jones said that that lady was Pam Bondi, and that Pam Bondi, this is what he said, I think the video is now deleted, but he said Pam Bondi is covering up for Epstein, and that's the big story that O 'Keefe had.
But now, From what I can tell, that video's been deleted.
I haven't seen any other clips on it.
And this has caused a lot of people to be upset.
To me, and again, this is just my gut feeling on this bombshell.
I mean, it's still big news, but I don't feel like, how is it news that made James O 'Keefe think his life was in danger?
And I could be wrong about all of this, but I get the feeling.
That the story that was released by O 'Keefe yesterday was not the original story he had planned, and I think that may be why it took so long.
I think maybe they were editing together a story that was not ready to come out yet.
It's just my intuition.
I get these things wrong most of the time, so just forgive me on that.
But it just seems like, and I don't know, you can do with...
That what you will.
What that would mean would be the story that they were going to run.
They didn't for some reason.
Maybe they got some new information.
Maybe they got some assurances that the Epstein stuff is really going to be taken care of and it's not being covered up.
I don't know.
But I will say this, because I know there's some influencers out there that are really upset.
At how skeptical everybody is when it comes to Epstein, when it comes to Cash Bondi, when it comes to Pam Bondi and Cash Patel and everything else.
I think you just gotta take a step back.
And you have to understand that none of us, none of us trust the government.
Even though Trump miraculously got put into office and there's some good people, some bad people been put in.
All of us, rightfully, justifiably so.
Have a healthy, and I mean healthy skepticism of these people because of the special interests we were just going through on the show today.
There's a lot of moving parts, and there are a lot of people who have lied their entire lives in professional and public life, and the idea that those lies would be exposed is terrifying to them, and people are doing everything they can to save their own skin, as is human nature when you are...
Caught and when you are not a believer in Jesus Christ, quite frankly.
So this is...
So the idea...
I mean, the people out there that are constantly hammering Bondi or Kash Patel or others saying, where are the Epstein files?
I say more power to you.
Keep doing it.
And I also say that we can celebrate when the FBI arrests 200 pedophiles, some of them teachers, some of them state troopers, some of them illegal aliens.
We can celebrate that, too.
That's where I'm with it.
And this O 'Keefe story, now we've got to wait until next week for the next shoe to drop.
I don't know.
I was disappointed.
I thought it was going to be something bigger, to be quite honest.
Folks, that's all the time that we have for this edition of the Millstone Report, unless I am providentially hindered.
I'm going to be back here delivering you the news on Friday, wishing you a happy Friday.
And until then, God bless you, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your Thursday.
Thank you so much for watching.
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