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June 2, 2024 - Stew Peters Show
55:26
Giving veterans a fighting chance to conquer mental health struggles. Will the government allow us to FIGHT?
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Music What is an effective treatment for post-traumatic stress or any other kind of mental health disorder?
The VA and the government will tell you there's all kinds of pills and there's therapy.
Other places will tell you there's all kinds of pills and there's therapy.
Well, recently there's been some new studies done and new information put out that there are other forms of treatment such as MDMA therapy.
It gets a little bit of kickback, or I should say probably a lot of kickback, but it also has garnered a lot of support.
Today I have my good friend Mike Wellnitz with us, and we are going to have a discussion about these types of things.
So stick with us.
Don't go away.
We start now.
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Okay.
MDMA treatments for veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder.
MDMA treatments for veterans with any kind of other mental health disorder.
That is today's topic, and before we get going, we need to find our friend Mike, and there he is.
Hello, Mike.
How are you, sir?
What's up, Rich?
How are you doing, buddy?
Well, we're here, and we're talking MDMA, man.
There's been a lot of...
There's been a lot of actually positive media about these treatments, these therapy options for veterans that are struggling with mental health things.
And I know that you have a little bit of experience there, a little bit of knowledge.
Experience I don't know about, but a little bit of knowledge.
And so I thought that maybe this would be a great conversation for you and I to have, because I have almost no knowledge other than what I've read.
And so, I guess my first question to you is, what do you think?
MDMA treatments for veterans experiencing mental health issues?
Well, I think you might be on it right now, dude, because one of the first side effects is a lot of sweating, and I see them sweat marks in your hat, so I'm thinking...
I'm seeing them sweat marks, bro.
I think you're on it right now, huh?
I love it, dude.
I wore the shirt for you to show my support for it.
Yeah, there he is.
I think it's great.
I mean, I especially think it's great that the VA is doing it, honestly getting on board.
I've tried to seek out, as well as I'm sure thousands of veterans, alternative means for depression.
Myself in the past.
And when I brought up, like, to my doctor, you know, if we, I can't even use, but I just was like curious, like, hey, what are we doing?
Like, are we ever going to do some studies on THC? Because at the time I was on Vicodin and then they had me on Probably Zoloft.
I think I tried a few different antidepressants and the side effects are horrendous.
So I asked about THC at the time and she honestly looked at me like I had a dick on my head.
Like I was absolutely insane.
I'm like...
You send me 90 Vicodin in my mailbox that my kids bring in to me every month and you're acting crazy when I ask about THC. Right.
So I'm all for alternative treatments because I think the pharma companies with their prescription antidepressants Just, I think it works for some people maybe, man, but I'm really against all those pills, and I think the side effects for it make it even worse.
I mean, if you look at some of the side effects for like Zoloft, it's terrible.
I think I had it up right here, but it's like...
It makes you a zombie.
It takes away all your sex drive.
Those two things right there, it's like, well, I'm depressed and I don't have a sex drive and I'm a zombie.
It doesn't get any worse than that.
Yeah, I don't see how that builds you up.
I can tell you this.
The VA put me on Zoloft as a smoking cessation medication to help me quit smoking.
And in four days, I learned that it gives me hives.
And so when I called my doctor and said, hey, I'm itching and I got these growths all over my arms and my legs.
Yeah.
Her response to me wasn't, hey, stop taking that right away.
It was, well, you know, we can give you, I can send you this and I can send you this.
And now one pill, each dose turned in from one pill to two pills, now to three pills.
Right.
And I had no idea what the hell I was about to be taking, and so I just stopped taking all of it and kept smoking cigarettes.
Yeah, nausea, loss of appetite, diarrhea, indigestion, increased sweating, tremor or shaking, agitation, so now you're even more agitated possibly from it.
And then sleep habits, insomnia, sexual problems, and feeling tired and fatigued.
Isn't that the same side effects of depression?
It sounds like it to me.
Those are all the questions they ask you on the forum when you go in to ask for help about depression.
And then the drug itself does that as well.
From what I've known and your last clip, I forget the Who you had the clip of.
She was pretty good though.
Explaining, because they're doing just MDMA right now, I believe the VA, right?
Yes.
Yeah, they are doing MDMA trials.
And so, folks, for those of you who don't know, the clip that Mike is speaking of, I do another show over on YouTube on Three Clicks Media called Disgruntled, and we had a discussion about this last week.
And there was an article or a news article with a news clip from a lady that was talking about this who was trying to help these regulations be passed.
And so, at this point, yes, the goal is to get the three therapy sessions, so three doses of MDMA, one a month for three months, and you go into the office or wherever they do this treatment, and you sit with a therapist and a medical professional, and I believe also a nurse, and they are with you through the whole thing.
And that's kind of where they stopped explaining it, and I'm sure there's a whole lot more that they do with you and talk to you about as you're going through this journey of sorts.
Correct?
Yeah, and so that's great.
It sounds to me like they're setting it up.
Based off, you know, what we...
I think what a lot of the general public, if they haven't researched or read or are into this sort of thing, they at least know, I bet all of your viewers...
I've got mosquitoes in here, bro.
All of your viewers are familiar with Aaron Rodgers, and he's big on ayahuasca, and I think he's done it the last two or three off-seasons now.
And it sounds to me like a lot, like what the VA is doing and online companies.
I won't throw out any company names, but the one you and I talked about offline.
They're based out of Oregon and you can, you know, sign up, meet with a doctor, do your sessions over the phone like we're doing right now.
You administer the drug at home, which they're doing mescaline.
But they're basing it off, it sounds like, the shaman treatments, you know, from South America.
So I think the process is great and it's tried and true.
And so if the VA actually follows it, I think it's phenomenal.
Well, and I think it's one of these things, Mike, where you mentioned shaman treatment.
So these treatments that used to be performed years and years and years and years ago, And granted, it was a much simpler time, but you never heard of issues like we see today in their warfighters, right?
I mean, I'm sure that, you know, these...
Civilizations had some kind of social construct, right?
And there was the peacekeepers, if you will.
And we know that PTSD or soldier's heart or whatever a shell shock, whatever you guys want to call it, has been in existence since the beginning of time.
The human mind was just not meant to withstand some of the things that peacekeepers, in quotations, have to deal with.
But somebody has to do it.
And so I agree with you a thousand percent that it's a great thing that some of these, they almost seem like rituals, are now being kind of brought back, and we're seeing success with them.
So they report.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so any knowledge, experience that I've had with it is like...
You, whatever it may be, because they all kind of work together, whether it be ketamine, MDMA, psilocybin.
I don't know about toad, Ben, and that one's a little out there, but some of them are, you know, most of them are going after your serotonin, which is directly linked to PTSD, low serotonin levels, drive PTSD and depression.
So these stimulants are driving up your serotonin levels, and then you're able to look at the information you already have and process it in a way that you hadn't been able to think about it,
say, presently without the help of a hallucinogenic or MDMA. And you're able to do something useful with that information, where before it was just sitting in the background driving you crazy, making you anxious.
And like we were talking offline, there's not...
For civilians that have PTSD and veterans, because like we were talking, I think some of mine was driven just by the fact that How many times were we outside?
We were outside of the wire a lot, man, for years.
And I gave up one of my legs because I didn't want to lose both.
I gave up one.
I had both my legs.
But in my head, I was willing to give up one and try and keep my arms.
And we all sat weird.
If we were mounted in a Humvee, we'd sit like this so that you'd only hopefully lose one leg or the other.
And so for...
Near two years or whatever, you did that for hours.
Just like, alright, now I gotta switch and now I'm gonna lose my right leg.
Cool, alright.
And so internally, what does that do to you?
Besides the horrific shit that happens in combat, what does that do to you internally where you just hold that in for years and years and years?
Well, and not even that, Mike, but take it one step further.
We had lots of time in these trucks.
Yeah.
And so when you were switching, I don't know about you, but when I was switching feet, I was thinking about, well, you know, shit, if I lose my left leg, my golf game's really going to suck.
Right?
Versus if I lose my right, because I'm left-handed, so I'll lose my front leg, which is my right leg.
I could probably figure out with a prosthetic how to still play golf, but my left leg's my driver.
You know what I mean?
And so if I lose my right, then my driving, that's how I drive a vehicle, and this is all screwed up.
And so you had to make a decision about which one was the best, because at some point, your legs fall asleep, all kinds of stuff.
It's wild.
You're right.
You're a thousand percent right.
That's why the bike I built when we got home has a suicide shift, because I thought, well, if I lose that, I could still shift and clutch with this hand.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
Well, and so, you know, again, we've talked about similar things before on the show, and like, I don't know if anybody ever remembers the show, but we've talked about before how we had to, at a very young age, we had to write our own obituaries before we left.
Yeah, a lot of guys are 19 years old.
Yeah, and so here we are sitting in this big conference room around tables with a piece of paper and a pen, and they tell you.
Telling dick jokes and writing your obituary.
Yeah, throwing shit at each other.
And then when you're done with that, you go to the next station and stand in line to take your picture, and the photographer looks you in the face and says, well...
You know, you don't have to smile, but remember that if you get killed in the next year while you're gone, this is the picture they're going to put in the paper.
Yeah.
This is you, buddy.
Yeah.
And so, you're right, Mike.
I mean, there's a constant mind screw going on, but somehow you come to terms with it and make it all necessary for yourself.
Yeah.
In the moment.
Right.
And so that's where, like, for civilians, PTSD, it doesn't, I don't think it's always something super, super traumatic.
Obviously, it is, too, for them, whether it be, you know, a lost, a horrific accident, or, you know, obviously, rapes and murders, stuff like that, but there could also be other I guess more mild things that happen to people on the daily that they just hold in, right?
Because that's what creates it, I believe, for the most part.
And you hold that in, so at least...
Go ahead.
How do we...
How do we...
How do these treatments then...
Do they...
Are you saying...
Have you...
Do you believe that they raise serotonin levels?
Yeah, all...
All the drugs except, let me pull, I believe ketamine, yeah.
So we're talking MDMA, psilocybin, pretty sure LSD, they all go for your serotonin levels.
Ketamine is the only one I believe that is dopamine.
So you can actually, I believe ketamine actually Yeah, so it's tied to your neurobiology, so you can actually, like, I guess, grow brain cells with ketamine, the way I've understood it, in a way.
Neurons, you know.
So that one's a little bit different, and it's not psychedelic, so that one's a little bit different, but the process is still the same, from everything, to my knowledge, as far as Take the medicine, take the pills, however it's administered.
Syringe, I think ketamine might be injected.
and then you know go through the process and then sit with your you know like in a doctor administered and a therapist there and kind of I haven't done one with a doctor or therapist but you know I from what I've understood from talking with a person who has and his wife does these sessions it's like you spit everything out and then She,
the therapist, is there to kind of reaffirm everything that you've said.
And maybe, I don't even think they help you necessarily always understand it.
Just kind of affirmations so that when it's all over and your head starts to clear, you're like, oh yeah, I really experienced that.
And it's kind of an affirmation that this wasn't just this drug and I wasn't on another planet even though I felt like I was.
But these things happened and now this is how I'm going to work through it.
So, help me out here, bro, because I'm pretty ignorant to a lot of this stuff.
What is, what is a psilocybin?
So, I mean, I'm not an expert either, right?
But I think the layman's terms to describe it is psilocybin would be like the active ingredient like THC is to marijuana.
So the active ingredient for the hallucinogenic in a mushroom, in a magic mushroom.
Okay.
All right.
Just so that for me and then for everyone else watching or listening that doesn't understand what that is.
Right.
So that's another real popular one is psilocybin treatment.
Well, I've heard of people microdosing mushrooms.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah, which is something we've talked about before.
And that's like anything at home or whatever.
Obviously, you're probably not with a therapist if you're just microdosing, but you still...
Process information differently.
If you're microdosing, you're not getting the hallucinogenic effects.
You're not really getting visuals.
You're just taking a very small amount.
And some people get euphoric from it.
Some people just feel just maybe a little pep in their step.
Some people maybe feel a little bit more creative, and there's strains of psilocybin too, just like marijuana.
So I'm sure it depends on different strains.
And some people just process information different, and it's the same information that's out there.
You're just able to step back and see it almost like an out-of-body.
Oh man, why didn't I think of it this way before?
Is it easy to overdo it a little maybe?
I would imagine so, yeah.
I think, yeah, I'm not here to give advice on microdosing, so I'll just stay away from that.
Well, so here's the thing, right?
So here's the other thought that I have about it.
Like, all of it interests me, especially if there's research and there's proof that it works.
And I don't know that I'm really against any of it anyway.
But there's going to be a lot of people, especially older generations of people, that are going to think, well, here we go, all the crazy veterans just want to get stoned and do crazy shit and blah, blah, blah.
But I think what needs to be understood is that for these therapeutic purposes, these are very small doses.
They're not like, this is not like take this and go to a party and have a great time for three days type doses.
This is just enough to kind of get into your head for what, five, six, seven hours maybe?
That's the way I understood it anyway.
Yeah, the treatments, I won't speak on it because I haven't done it.
I believe for the most part they don't go past five.
I think a lot of them shoot for like that two to three range.
But I don't know for sure what, you know, and I'm talking about the online ones and I don't know what the VA is doing, but I'd assume, yeah, that they're not going to just send you to the moon because that can be eight, nine plus hours.
Yeah, and probably has the potential to get pretty squirrely.
I'd imagine, I mean, these are experts, so I'm sure they keep you fairly calm and they set the environment, but I don't know.
I think if you're dealing with a lot in your head, for me, I mean, and hey, going up in the 90s, what do we have, like the butterfly effect and some crazy movies about being in a mental institute?
Yeah.
I'd freak out around a doctor if I eat too many mushrooms, son.
Yeah.
No sir.
I ain't doing that.
That would end up in the butterfly effect.
Okay, so let me ask you this.
And if you don't want to answer it because the question may be a little too squirrely, I get it.
If there is now proof and the stacks of proof just keep going and growing, And evidence that this is working for people.
And that evidence keeps growing.
Why do you think?
I have my opinions.
But I'm interested to hear yours.
Why would you think that the government or the VA would be so skeptical?
Now, I know that the VA is doing these trials.
But, mind you...
These folks have been researching it with positive results since 2008 or 2009, if I remember right.
So it's been a long time that they've been showing positive results.
And so the reason why it kind of gets under my skin...
Is that meanwhile, while we're talking about, well, these are illicit drugs and blah blah blah, and other people are having treatments that are being performed by medical professionals that are skilled in this type of thing.
This whole time we're still losing 22 veterans a day to suicide.
So it makes me think about how many of these men and women that have taken themselves off the deep edge and committed suicide that may have, we could have saved them, even if it was just for another year to have another conversation by these types of treatments.
And so that's a very long question, but...
Yeah, what was the question?
Why do you think that the government has taken so long and is still very skeptical of these types of things?
I got like five ideas popping my head right away.
So hopefully I don't get too sidetracked.
For one, funding.
Because Big Pharma and insurance got us all by the balls, for sure.
They run the world.
And so I think funding is a big one because we can grow mushrooms in our closet.
We can grow our own psilocybin in our closet and do this at home.
And Big Pharma loses out big time there.
Two, we do have this, whatever the new war on drugs is, we got it, and I don't know what it looks like anymore, and where the ties are, and who's funding who, but that seems like a spiderweb that I haven't even thought about in years, because I won't even go down that road, but I don't know where we're at with that.
Three, we've handled it.
Really poorly in the past, starting, like, the biggest thing that comes to my mind would be In the 60s with MKUltra when they were testing Johns and there's a phenomenal book about it.
It's called Chaos by Tom O'Neill.
It's actually about the Manson family but how that was tied to the CIA and testing Johns on LSD in the 60s and so that was handled really badly because then that goes into a whole spider web into JFK and all kinds of stuff so We have a bad history with handling psychedelics and drugs in the government, so I'd say that's part of it.
Interesting.
I guess those are the three biggest things that stick out for me as to why we can't get on board and do it properly.
Well, I gotta tell you that I agree with you.
I think the biggest reason why they haven't done it to me is purely control.
You're right.
Big Pharma and the government, they have everybody by the balls.
The insurance industry has everybody by the nuts.
And if people are able to Heal themselves anyway and don't need Big Pharma and don't need your Percocet and your Vicodin and your Flexerol and your this and your that.
There's a lot of money to be lost by some of these people.
Right, because...
And they don't want to see that go.
Even if Big Pharma and insurance made a buck off it and they developed their own and they pushed it down our throats and Guess what?
Nobody gets hooked on mushrooms.
You do what you need to do, and then you're done with that.
Even as a kid, it's like, ooh, I'm done with that for a good couple years, technically.
You ain't getting hooked on that.
Unlike painkillers.
You're getting hooked on them.
Guaranteed.
That's a good point.
How addictive are these things?
Is MDMA addictive?
I haven't heard that.
I don't believe so.
I don't...
I don't believe so.
I mean, I'm sure people do plenty.
I know...
MDMA is essentially ecstasy, right?
It is.
Yeah, that was the only...
That was the weird thing about that last...
She was great.
I think it was a really good clip that you had, but it was like she was trying to say that it's not ecstasy because it's, you know, this is pure and ecstasy is cut.
Well, yeah, that's like saying this isn't cocaine because it's cut.
Well, it's still cocaine.
It is ecstasy, yes.
They got to keep the labels separate some way, somehow.
And that's fine, yeah.
Anyway, folks, we got to take a break.
We'll be right back with you.
Don't go away.
There's a whole bunch of stories that have to be dug into, rethought, reconsidered, and in some cases, completely discarded.
As modern Americans, we've been spoon-fed this dumbed-down, cartoonish, simplified version of history.
It's all fake.
It's all bullshit.
Everything that we have been taught is part of a self-serving narrative written by the people who will say and do anything to keep us on a leash.
Now, this version of history, some big-name corrupt families like the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds and their many associates are credited over and over and over again with propelling human development.
Throughout the late 18 and early 1900s, almost every major American city was burnt to the ground.
What if we really are quite literally living atop the ashes of an advanced civilization that's been hidden from us?
for our entire lives.
Hey folks, welcome back here to the second half of the show.
Mike is here with us.
Mike, I think we should transition the conversation and talk about these therapy options as it pertains to pain management.
There was some discussion that pain management is something that all this could be used for.
What are your thoughts on that?
Is it just for mental health or is pain management something that weak as veterans or as anybody that needs it could use these for pain?
Yeah, absolutely.
I don't think the VA is studying it right now.
I know certain civilian Areas have been, I don't know off the top of my head who, it doesn't really matter, but because I've done it myself.
VA had me on hydros for six years, I think.
Terrible.
Absolutely terrible.
And so a few years back, I had a surgery for a deviated septum.
It was a pretty bad one.
And so it was like I don't I don't want any painkillers and my wife is definitely skeptical of me taking any painkillers home and trying them right so I just microdosed mushrooms and microdosed So like I think I maybe had a gram and Virtually no pain that whole next day.
No kidding.
I think painkillers work the same way to where if you really are in pain and you have a Percocet or something, I don't believe you get the euphoria.
I don't think.
I could be wrong.
That's what they say.
So with the mushrooms, yeah, for mushrooms work the same way.
I wasn't, I was at home just, you know, recovering and I wasn't like losing my mind and seeing a bunch of visuals.
I was just comfortable and I could get up and like, you know, everything was good other than huge blood clots in my nose.
But virtually no pain went through that day just fine.
And then Generally mushrooms don't work the same two days in a row.
So the next day I was in quite a bit of pain.
So I don't know how that works with pain management.
I'm sure there are studies with, you know, Show more than my little home experiment.
But the next day was a little rougher, I will say.
But I do know it works for pain management quite well.
Suicide, that is.
Well, so the proof, I mean, whether they're researching it or not, the proof is in the experience, right?
I mean...
Yeah.
And just for clarity to anybody watching, Mike and I served together for quite a while.
We deployed to Iraq together.
And so I tell you all that to say that if I thought he was lying about his drug use, I wouldn't allow him to talk about it on this show.
And so I trust what you're saying is what I mean.
And so the proof is in the experience for me.
So whether they're researching or not, I guess for me, it doesn't really matter.
The fact that you had a positive experience and understanding also that it's probably not the same experience for everybody, but it is an option for everybody, maybe, or maybe it should be.
That's great.
Okay, so psilocybin is the active ingredient in mushrooms.
Yep, so those were just natural mushrooms, yep.
I didn't have, this wasn't something, you know, the clinic in Oregon gave me or Colorado or nothing.
It was just, you know, organic.
Okay.
What about the information that's out there about THC or cannabis or marijuana for pain management?
Yeah, that one's gotten real tricky here for me.
You know, if you'd have asked me And I'm late to the party, probably, but two years ago, I would have been this huge...
I'm still an advocate for legalizing and using marijuana, especially through, you know, the VA and also civilian for every reason, for mental health.
But that's really hard for me to say right now because it's gotten so strong and I know that there's so many new cases out there of psychosis and that scares the shit out of me because, you know, my thoughts are still back, you know, I hadn't smoked in years and years and years or used at all, period.
Then it was common knowledge.
Whether it's addictive or not doesn't matter.
That's not the issue.
That's not the topic we're trying to hit.
It's not going to kill anyone.
You'll live through this.
I'm like, dude, I don't know.
These people are freaking out.
It's just too strong, man.
But you're right.
I'm still an advocate.
You're right though.
I mean, if you go into a dispensary nowadays, into any states that have legal recreational dispensaries, to the best of my knowledge, Some of these strands of cannabis are 27%, 28%, 30% THC, so they're extremely potent.
And I don't know how that compares to the marijuana that maybe, you know, when we were 18 years old that you bought from the dude down the street that was hanging out at the bus stop that had little beans in it and everything else.
They called it ditch weed back then.
You smoke it off your Mountain Dew can.
Or an apple or whatever.
I guess I don't know how potent that stuff was back then, but what they say now is that the potency of the stuff is so high.
I can understand that people are falling into, as you say, a psychosis or just not having a good experience.
Yeah, the last, and I can't quote the study or anything, but the last little study I read was like that, what we're calling just normal ditch weed, or even decent weed back then for the reefer was like, Maybe 3%, maybe even say 5?
3?
And so you're talking, yeah, or 5?
Wow.
Even call it 10, dude.
So if we're calling this 30, 40, 50, like that's crazy.
That's crazy.
That's too much.
I also...
Holy cow.
I also don't think, and it seems like most of this is going towards...
Vapes are edibles for marijuana.
And edibles, I know, process different.
Your stomach acid processes it and it turns into a completely different drug, which is a completely different high, completely different feeling.
It's not even the same thing anymore when you eat it.
And I can't believe that...
There's no chemicals affecting the high or anything in vaping either.
I just, I'm not on board with that whole scene, but I'm definitely on board with, yes, the VA and all the clinics and the medical, medicinal marijuana, because at least then it can be regulated at a lower dose or a proper dose or potency, I should say.
Yeah.
Because I think it could be great.
Honestly, a couple years ago when our opioid epidemic, well, it's still bad, but now it's not being talked about because there's so much other shit going on.
But I was like, what are we doing?
If we just legalized this and the clinics were handing out marijuana, we could get rid of Vicodin.
Pull it off the market.
Nobody needs it.
How many people are actually in pain versus just addicted?
Right.
So if you're handing out, if they'd have been sending me marijuana in my mailbox for the last six years or whatever it was, instead of, you know, biking in, I'd have been set.
So I'm a big advocate, but I do think regulations need to be in effect because, damn, son, if we're talking like 50% THC and what Willie Nelson be smoking is five, like, that's a problem.
Yeah, I wonder what potency...
The weed that Willie smokes is.
Let's ask him.
Can you get him on here and see?
I would love to have Willie Nelson on this show.
Are you kidding?
I think he was just around somewhere.
I don't think you're smoking all day if it's 50%.
But I don't know, man.
I know that if you've got mental issues, you probably shouldn't be.
You know?
You shouldn't be smoking 50%.
You don't need to go to the moon.
I agree.
Or, like, belt into the couch, necessarily.
I don't think that's going to fix anything, but...
Well, if you're using these things and you're finding yourself in a situation where you need to end up being seen by a medical professional, you certainly had too much.
But you can also argue that any medication is that way.
If you take five too many Vicodin, you're in trouble.
Or at least that's in theory.
I'm pretty sure aspirin's the same way, ain't it?
Anything.
Take it, yeah.
So, same, yeah.
So, yeah, that's why I'm pushing to go federal with it all the way, because if we don't regulate it, it's only going to be worse at this point.
Yeah, man.
And I can't help but, just like we talked about in the last segment, I can't help but think that it is all about Money, power, and control.
Because it would seem to me that there is no good reason for the federal government not to just jump on board, make the stuff legal, put the regulations in place, and guess what?
Even when they put some crazy, insane tax on it, People are still going to buy it, and they're still going to use it.
But there's a lot of implications of that, I would imagine, like Big Pharma, which we talked about.
I believe that if the federal government got behind THC and cannabis and legalized it for recreational use, it's going to kill the liquor industry.
And there's implications behind that because I'm sure that there's a lot of money exchanging hands and backdoors, slick back politician deals that nobody really knows about all around the liquor industry, maybe.
Who knows?
That's probably a whole nother conversation.
What's that?
Yeah, marijuana just took over as far as users in the United States.
We have now more users of cannabis than alcohol on the daily.
Well, there you go.
Taken over already.
There you go.
And it ain't even legal everywhere.
Is it only legal in like 32 states or something?
30 some, yeah.
That's crazy.
Yep.
And so...
And so just all of that makes me very curious, bro.
Are you telling me that nobody knew this 20 years ago, 30 years ago?
That there was benefits to this?
Of course people loved it.
The hippies in the 60s were smoking weed all over the place.
Yeah, I don't think we did know that there was benefits to it, honestly.
You don't?
I think certain people...
Maybe found the pain relief side of it.
And obviously they were happy, but I don't think...
There wasn't even...
Man, I mean, when did we get into really studying depression?
I don't...
Did we have much knowledge 30 years ago?
I mean, I guess time flies.
So I might be way off.
Well, 20 years ago for sure.
Yeah, you're right.
We've been studying depression for a while, but I don't think they really started tying the two together all that long ago, honestly.
I think that depression became a big thing that was talked about a whole lot more often after 9-11, when people just couldn't fucking, oops, excuse me, couldn't deal with it.
Couldn't deal with the towers.
They couldn't deal with this.
They couldn't deal with that.
And maybe rightfully so.
But there was this influx of people that were having all these emotional problems and these mental health concerns.
I mean, clearly mental health issues have been a thing for years.
We have insane asylums all over this country.
Which we don't anymore.
Which we don't anymore.
But I believe that the benefits of marijuana and THC and cannabis with mental health probably is within the last 20 years.
About.
Yeah.
We embraced it in the 90s.
We just called it grunge in the 90s and wrote a lot of good music.
And so you're probably right with your timeline.
It's weird to say now cannabis and mental health or any of these things we've talked about because I think you and I are on the same page, but to be clear, there's a lot of people with mental health issues that definitely shouldn't touch anything other than a flower, like a real flower, like a rose, and walk around and be active because...
It can also go the other way real quick, whether you're, you know, hopefully if it's a doctor administered, they see that, okay, this person probably shouldn't be using anything to alter their mind, you know, so let's make that very clear as well.
Yes, but you're right, but that goes for anything, and that's always been that way, I think.
Right.
You know, we've always had, I mean, I had an aunt who's now passed away, long passed away, who had some pretty severe mental health issues from the time I can remember.
I was very small.
I don't think I ever remember her being, quotes, normal.
But she was at some point when my grandfather died.
Apparently she heard somebody tell her to drink Drano and she did it.
And then from that point on, she lived in a group home and had, you know...
Yeah, that's tough.
That's terrible.
And it was some kind of psychosis.
So, I don't know if she would have done better on marijuana, though.
No, that's where, I mean, and that's why, yeah, people like you and I aren't administering it.
You've got to really seek, you know, a real expert, not just anybody, maybe even a couple opinions, advice and have a team with you before you would do any of this, in my eyes.
And I think they are doing basically teams, right?
So it's like...
Because that's terrible.
Like, if somebody needs help but they have some other issues in the background or whatever it may be, you know, it's like to administer that then and they have just a terrible outcome.
That's not what we're after.
Right.
Okay, Mike, we have about five minutes left in the show.
So I want to pause the conversation and I want to give you as much of that five minutes as you'd like to just kind of give a rounded out closing thoughts.
Whatever it is that you want the people to know or remember, kind of just close out your thoughts for the show.
So the floor is yours, sir.
Sure, so how'd we start?
Just the government, well, we were talking about the VA. VA doing MDMA trials.
So, wherever we went in conversation, I fully support research, for sure.
We got to have the knowledge to move forward no matter what the outcome of it all is.
So as far as the research goes, like carry on, you know.
I do support it.
I've seen good results from people I've talked to that have done some of the trials.
Unfortunately, right now they're not using Veterans and I hope we get to a point where we do and the VA does ask for veterans volunteers I will sign up and I know a lot of people that would too They're not there yet.
I say carry on keep doing your research and hopefully We as a country can support it.
I think it's real.
It's obviously taken a huge turn.
I know some of the Psilocybin companies from the West Coast They're not trading, I believe.
I haven't looked.
So it's getting more popular, for sure.
The research, there's nothing that's always positive.
But for the most part, the outcomes have been good.
And so it's snowballing pretty fast from what I've seen right now.
So that's all good and I'm just I'm really happy that the VA is actually involved because they seem like they're so old school and so behind the times in this stuff that I was actually shocked that they're actually doing it, especially from the way That me and you and so many other veterans have been treated at some VAs around the country.
Some of them are good, but a lot of times you feel like a criminal when you leave there.
And I've walked out of so many appointments and fired so many doctors because, man, I didn't come here to feel like a criminal.
Right.
And that's exactly what they do.
It's almost like you come home and take a rape shower afterwards because you just feel dirty, like you're just a dirty, dirty person, you know?
And so I'm glad they're on board.
I'm glad they're moving forward and they're trying this out.
And hopefully they try, you know, not just MDMA, but psilocybin.
They do some work with THC and CBD. And we can keep moving forward, I guess.
I'd like to see, when was that study done?
That last one, that clip that you had talked about.
Uh, that one was, uh, six months ago, I think.
Okay.
Maybe even a year.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And obviously, you know, I have experience on the other side, the pharma side and the hydros.
And so I'm very, very anti there for sure.
Um, There's so many people that run around thinking if it's doctor prescribed and FDA approved, well then it's safe and good to go.
And they look at somebody like me that's talking about mushrooms that grew naturally.
Like I'm a drug addict or I'm crazy or I'm out there.
Running around with the aliens, but it's like, dude, this thing grows naturally on Earth and it has all these same benefits without all the side effects of that pill that a bunch of money-hungry crooks shove down your throat and you're on their side, but we've been using this treatment for thousands of years in human history and only within the last,
you know, 70, 80 years has it been deemed The devil's brew and the government says it can't be used, but we use it for thousands of years prior.
That's right.
So I hope everyone can open their minds up to that or at least get off that high horse of well it's FDA approved and that's not so you guys are idiots and we're righteous because you can keep them pills.
There you go.
I agree.
But it needs to, I think we all know that as far as like THC goes right now, that's the one, I mean, psilocybin is right there behind it.
It's happening.
So I think the best way is to get on board so it can be regulated and then Government do what you need to do, tax it, do your thing, because an insurance can get on board.
Everyone can get on board, so it's controlled.
Because we know the government likes to do that, but I do agree it needs to be controlled, because like I said, man, I don't think we should be...
Slanging, you know, whatever.
I've even heard numbers up to 80%, and that could be way off, that could just be talk, but it's like, dude, that's not good either.
So, the research needs to happen so that it can be controlled and used properly, and that's always the big push, right?
Like, how do we do that?
Right on.
Very well said, my friend.
And I have to say that it is my opinion that There's been research.
There's been research done for many years.
There's been a lot of research done for many years with positive results.
And there's been positive proof that this stuff works.
And the fact that we are slowly getting on board is a great thing.
I wish that we could accelerate that if this is going to help so many people.
Because as I said earlier in the show, We are still at a point where we are losing 22 veterans a day, they say.
Earlier this month, May 1st, Secretary McDonough said at a Senate hearing, a Senate budget hearing, that that number went up last year.
And he's the secretary of the VA, so he's the one that puts out the number.
And so, with that being said, if there are alternative treatments and therapies out there that are proving to work, How much more research do we need to do?
Are we really doing research or are we deciding how we're going to tax it and make money and get big pharma involved?
Maybe none of that's true and maybe I should put on my tin foil hat.
But for the purposes of today's show, I'm going to say that let's keep on the path, but let's speed it up.
Because as it sounds to me, this could save the lives of men and women who chose to fight for this country.
And if not, save them.
If they don't need saving, help them to live a more comfortable life and enjoy the country in which they chose to fight for.
So with that being said, I would like to thank you, Mike, for your time.
Always love having you.
I know that you'll be back someday.
And the rest of you, please have a great evening.
Take care of each other.
We'll see you next time.
Macro dose.
Good night.
There's a whole bunch of stories that have to be dug into, rethought, reconsidered, and in some cases, completely discarded.
As modern Americans, we've been spoon-fed this dumbed-down, cartoonish, simplified version of history.
It's all fake.
It's all bullshit.
Everything that we have been taught is part of a self-serving narrative written by the people who will say and do anything to keep us on a leash.
Now, this version of history, some big-name corrupt families like the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds and their many associates are credited over and over and over again with propelling human development.
Throughout the late 18 and early 1900s, almost every major American city was burnt to the ground.
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