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Feb. 27, 2024 - Stew Peters Show
58:59
Millstone Report: EXPOSING Roots Of Premillennial Dispensationalism with Jeremy Slayden
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Rainbow Gestapo, the goose-stepping gay lobby, all of that stops right now.
Stare at the sun just for kicks all by myself.
I lose track of time, so I might be past my pride.
People say we need to, you know, make America great again.
I completely agree.
We may need to make Gallows great again.
Oh my, I feel just like I don't try.
I look so good I might die.
All I know is everybody loves me.
Cut down, sway into my own sound.
Flashes in my face now.
All I know is everybody loves me.
Literally so many people that need to have a millstone put around their neck and tossed into the sea.
Everybody, but you know you are.
Everybody, everybody, everybody.
What do you want?
Hello ladies and gentlemen, welcome.
Thanks so much for being with us.
We've got a great episode for you tonight on the Milstone Report.
We will attempt to tackle a very difficult issue.
You don't want to miss this one.
What will the second coming of Jesus Christ look like?
So in the beginning, in the very beginning, God created the world.
And He created man.
Adam and Eve, male and female.
Adam and Eve sinned, though, and the curse of death spread over God's creation.
But then, over the course of human events, God's plan for redemption was made known and realized in the God-man Jesus Christ, the culmination of all events.
And ever since his death, burial, and resurrection, ever since the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and his subsequent ascent into heaven, Christianity, and Christ's church, which he is head of, has spread throughout the nations.
That is the gospel story.
It's what we celebrate.
It's what we live.
It's what unites Christians across the world.
It's an agreement we all share, even in the midst of denominational squabbles.
But the full story isn't quite complete, because the Bible says that Jesus Christ will come again.
The second coming of Christ will happen, and the question of how it will happen is something that has caused much consternation and debate over the last 2,000 years.
However, a man named Jeremy Sladen would argue that most of that debate around Christian eschatology, which is a Bible word for the end times, has really only been a controversial subject among Christians from the 1800s to our present day.
This is because end times teachings from a church history perspective were pretty uniform for the first 1800 years of the church.
So what happened exactly?
Well, debaters of biblical eschatology are no doubt familiar with terms like premillennialism, amillennialism, or postmillennialism, or dispensationalism, or how about the rapture?
Most of us probably remember the Left Behind book series about the coming Antichrist and how Christians will one day vanish, leaving behind nothing but the clothes on their backs.
It may come to your surprise, but this teaching is only about 150 years old.
So what happened exactly?
Well, as I mentioned earlier, a researcher named Jeremy Sladen has done a deep dive on this information.
Here's one of his very popular videos.
After 1800 years, a new eschatology emerges.
You know, as a non-seminary trained Christian, I had assumed that my popularly held view of the end times, including a pre-tribulation rapture, was supported by the historic church, probably going back all the way to the time of Christ.
Little did I know that neither dispensational premillennialism or the rapture was even on the table as a fully formed, widely held view until over 1800 years after Jesus ascended to heaven.
Dispensationalism is a man-made system of dividing the Bible, typically consisting of seven different stages where God dispenses His grace or knowledge differently to human beings throughout history.
It is a modern system that began to replace Reformed Covenant theology in the early 1800s.
Over the last three years, I've asked many seminary-trained pastors the origins of dispensational premillennialism and rapture eschatology.
Ninety percent of the time, they told me of John Darby from the 1800s, followed by the massive impact of the Schofield Reference Bible on Bible colleges into the early 1900s.
The first time I heard this, I was troubled by it due to the late hour of its arrival in church history.
I felt these pastors had to be wrong.
I began to look into who these two men, Darby and Schofield, were.
I discovered that while these men packaged and popularized the eschatology massively, it did not start with them.
And now joining us now on the Millstone Report, we have for you Jeremy Sladen, the guy that you just saw in that video.
Jeremy, welcome to the Millstone Report.
Thanks for having me on, Paul.
Glad to be here.
I've never been on your show before, but excited to talk.
Absolutely.
So let's get right to it.
First of all, tell us about your background.
This is new ground for you, right?
You were not raised to believe that the rapture, as we've been told, is not biblical.
You were very much steeped in what's called premillennial dispensationalism, right?
Yeah, I think that's a great way to open.
I was actually raised very much to trust the church leadership.
However, I was always the kind of kid that I wanted to ask, you know, good, solid questions.
I felt like, hey, if something has legs to stand on, you ought to be able to ask tough questions of it because truth can stand on its own two feet.
Now, I will say with the Christian industrial book complex that's out there with all of the movies, you know, it's gotten into pop culture with Left Behind, as you mentioned.
You can actually be a biblical scholar and be steeped in premillennial dispensationalism and Christian Zionism and all of it and think that you've really, you know, cornered the market in terms of understanding these things because it's just so widespread.
But as I began to, like I said in that short video, ask the pastors who came on my show, which you can watch at JSLA USA, you know, they wouldn't want to talk about it on camera very often.
But because of the times we're in, the globalization As a Christian, it's like, how could I not ask this pastor or this author or missionary what they think about eschatology or the study of last things, you know, the end times?
And often they'd say, well, don't put this on the air, but I really don't hold to the rapture theology.
I believe in a second coming of Christ.
I don't know when that's going to be, but I don't hold to a rapture.
And they would, as you said, they would land on amillennialism or maybe postmillennialism.
And so it made me very curious and when I began to peel back the layers and those two names that kept coming up were Darby and Schofield and I was like that just can't be true because that was mid-1800s to early 1900s and I was very much bothered by it.
So you're talking to a guy right now Paul that I kind of came to this kicking and screaming not wanting it to be true because it's overturning a lot of the things that I was brought up to believe.
Well, I can concur with that.
I mean, I was raised Southern Baptist and grateful for that upbringing.
I'm now a confessional Presbyterian, so I don't typically hold to this dispensationalism the way I used to, quite frankly, really up until quite recently, to be honest with you.
So tell me about it.
It doesn't really start with Schofield.
It doesn't really start with Darby.
Who is a man named Manuel Lacunza?
Who is that?
Well, that was his real name, and he was a Jesuit priest.
Now, when it comes to his personal life and how long he'd been a Jesuit, all those things, that stuff's out there.
You can find that.
But as it relates to modern-day theology, he, along with several other Jesuits, one was named, I believe, Francisco Ribera.
I can't think of the second one.
But they were writing books to counteract the Reformers' covenant theology, as well as their end times view specifically.
So the Reformers at that time, especially England, Scotland, Ireland, they were pointing at the Catholic Church saying, the Pope is the beast, he's the Antichrist, and the Catholic Church or the Vatican is the beast system.
Now, as you can imagine, the powers that be among the Vatican in those days did not like that very much.
And they began to want to infiltrate Reformed eschatology, you know, any way they could.
So these Jesuits, really all around the world, this one specifically was in South America, Manuel Lacanza, he wrote a book, and I believe it was 1799 was when he actually penned it.
And it was called The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty.
And he died a few years later.
But that book was discovered by a reformed Scottish minister named Edward Irving, who fell in love with the book.
Absolutely.
Now, he would have had no love for the Catholic Church.
Let's be clear about that.
But when he read it, on the title of the book, Lacunza lied about his identity.
He said that he was a converted Jew, the Rabbi Juan Yosefat Ben Ezra.
So this held an appeal.
It's like, okay, this was a Jewish man, a rabbi, that came to Christ.
That's cool.
I like this already.
He began to read the book, which was actually written in Spanish.
Yeah, I think that's correct.
Yeah, it was written in Spanish.
And Edward Irving loved it so much that he translated it himself, so he had to really dig into Spanish to translate this book.
He wrote an over 70-page preface to the book, and that was how it began to spread, was that eschatology.
They were doing eschatological conferences all the time.
He was going to the same ones as John Darby.
So a lot of people out there say, well, Darby, it was Darby's.
It was Darby's idea.
Darby held some of the same ideas, but he was rubbing elbows with Irving.
Irving was the one that was really putting it out on the table in terms of that book.
And when he found out that the book was actually written by a Jesuit priest rather than a converted Jew, he didn't even care.
He was just in love with the idea of two things.
That there was going to really be three comings of Christ.
One was his original coming to earth as Jesus.
Then there was going to be the rapture.
Then there was going to be a period of time that passed.
Then there was going to be a full second coming.
So Manuel Lacunza sort of put, I guess, put a bow on that type of theology, as well as throughout the book, he referred to the Jews as my people.
He kept saying, I'm a rabbi, it's my people.
And he would talk about how the old covenant theology was going to resume its course in the last days.
So here are a lot of very popular pastors across this country.
And I know good and well I'm going up against a beast right now just saying these things.
But they talk about the return of the third temple and that Jesus will act as high priest doing animal sacrifices.
Which in my mind it's like...
Jesus was the ultimate propitiation, the ultimate sacrifice.
Behold the Lamb of God.
You got it.
Yes.
So He was the ultimate Lamb.
But yeah, I'll stop there and let you go.
But the more I look into this, the more amazed I am by it.
Well, to your point, so backing up from, I guess, Edward Irving, so let's back up to the Catholic Church.
What's on your screen right now?
This is just a Word document of the Westminster Confession of Faith.
The Westminster Confession of Faith, obviously a Protestant document.
Written in 1646-1647.
And in this very much Protestant document, really a backbone of Presbyterianism, we have specific mentions of the Pope.
Now this was since, I think, the American version of the Westminster Confession after the American Revolution.
There were some things that were changed in it.
One of the things, I believe, was this reference to the Pope.
So it says, And so the reason I throw that up there, Jeremy, is because I want people to understand how offensive this would be to Catholics at the time, right?
And so obviously we know that Catholics and Protestants have been waging this war since Martin Luther in 1517, right?
This is...
This has been this debate for a very, very long time.
So I wanted the readers to understand, the listeners, the watchers out there, to understand that it's out of this animus that would drive somebody, like a Jesuit priest, like this guy who, up until I read your findings, I've never heard of Manuel Lacunza,
to essentially pen this book, claim to be a Jew, and then claim to, you know, find some way to insert this new eschatology in a way to eventually...because if you really think about it, if at the time they were saying things like "the Pope is the Antichrist," then there's really no way that somebody from a Catholic background would ever get the time They wouldn't listen to them at all, right?
They would just kind of mark them aside and avoid them.
But all of a sudden if you have somebody who claims to be A Jew who is also a Christian convert who has repented or is claiming that they've repented and have looked to Jesus as Messiah, all of a sudden, okay, now I'll listen to you.
Okay, now I can entertain this idea.
Is that about right to you?
Does that sum it up?
I think you're on the money, and I think the layers go really deep.
If you read the Jesuit Extreme Oath of Induction, it talks about that they are subject to the Pope beyond all else, and the Vatican, and that they will subversively become whatever they need to become.
He said to the Protestant, be a Protestant.
To a reformer, be a reformer.
And it said, and when you even need to be.
And it says, like, drop so low as to be a Jew when you need to be a Jew, which interesting that they worded it like that, because it was like almost kind of dissing the Jews.
But that's exactly what Manuel Lucunza did.
And, you know, his legacy lives on today beyond just our eschatology.
I didn't know this till after I was on with Stu Peters a couple of weeks ago.
There is a very large piece of modern art that's down there in the South American country where he was from, I believe Chile, and it's a dedication to his Kabbalistic practices, what his real beliefs were, the kind of mysticism that was involved in his beliefs, which is a Jewish belief, but it aligns that with Lakanza.
So really, really weird.
There's a lot of layers of deception going on here.
And I want to say, you know, our lower third here says, is the rapture biblical?
Obviously, there's those parts of Scripture that talk about meeting the Lord in the air.
We're not disputing that.
We're disputing that that's somehow like a 2.0 coming, and then there's the 3.0, you know, verses.
I think it's very important.
Can I speak to that on a second?
Yeah, absolutely.
And I feel like I've got the foundation to say this.
I grew up in churches that that's all they preached was the rapture, as well as the second coming is two different things when you really dug into the details.
But so many ministers today that are really well known, they'll talk about, are you rapture ready?
Are you ready for the rapture?
You need to tell others about the rapture.
Almost as if...
That's how you get saved.
That's how you follow Jesus is you believe in the rapture.
So there's this really weird fixation and there's also a muddying of the waters between, okay, even if you believe in a rapture, there's still going to be an ultimate second coming of Christ that leads into eternity, you know, without naming every step there.
And I really don't appreciate that they muddy the waters so much where it's like all about this idea of a rapture.
And here's the other thing.
If Jesus is going to come and we're going to meet him in the air, that could absolutely be a second coming, right?
But everybody takes that.
Not everybody, but a lot of the popular pre-millennial dispensational pastors make that all about the rapture always.
And I think you could easily read that as the second coming of Christ, especially with trumpets and everything else.
Well, yeah, I mean, it's the idea of meeting him in the air, assembling behind him.
Like a victorious general would lead the troops back into the city after conquering and winning a great war.
That's the imagery there.
So talk about this book.
Is it in this book, The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty, where Lacunza starts to reinterpret scriptures, specific scriptures, like Daniel 9, 26-27?
Is that from that book?
Yes, so a lot of, and if you don't mind, could you pull up those scriptures?
Because I don't have it in front of me.
I will.
I will.
No, these scriptures are, it's the ones that have to do with, you know, the Antichrist.
I've got it right here.
It's in your article, so let me throw your article up on the screen here.
Yeah, and a lot of times it's a little word here, a little change there.
Yeah, here it is.
So, Daniel 9, 26-27, you know, and after three score and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, and it says,"...but not for himself and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary." And the end thereof shall be with a flood and unto the end of the war.
Desolations are determined.
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week.
Now this is the key right here.
And he, this he.
Who is this he referring to?
So you say that this he, up until this book was written, obviously referred to Jesus Christ.
Then it was changed to say, Alright,
so speak to that, because by changing this one emphasis on this word right here, it was just kind of a foot in the door to completely change what the Church had taught for 1800 years.
That's right.
I mean, and the proof's in the pudding, just right there.
If anybody wants to actually read the document, you can find it on my substack.
That's what he's pulling up.
But yeah, so Matthew Henry and all of these other great biblical theologians, Albert Barnes, John Wesley, Adam Clark, They all had answered that that is the Messiah who's going to actually be destroying the sanctuary and its customs as a result of his sacrifice and atonement for our sins.
So they believed in a fulfillment prophecy, right?
Which is funny enough, that word fulfillment, I was on a Christian Zionist website that was sent to me by someone the other day Trying to, you know, make sure that I was still a Christian Zionist.
And, you know, it was talking against fulfillment prophecy that Jesus, you know, while he did come and fulfill some of the, you know, stuff in the Old Testament that was going to be prophecy, not all of it, and especially God's separate plan for Israel.
But, you know, most of those biblical theologians before that book We're saying, no, this is Christ.
And then in AD 70, you had the destruction of the temple and its customs.
So it was fulfilled in a major way.
And then after that point, that's when you had theologians begin to shift and start saying, no, this is the Antichrist.
Okay, so I'm glad you just brought it up.
You brought up 70 AD. So Jesus Christ, it's recorded in the Gospel several places that he says the temple's going to be destroyed, right?
And this was a huge deal.
This was a giant issue in history, and a lot of dispensationalism They just kind of gloss over the fact that this was Christ prophesying the destruction of the temple, and then it happened in 70 A.D., after he ascended into heaven.
So there are these two competing views.
You mentioned covenant theology earlier versus this dispensational theology.
But for 1,800 years, the church taught, and feel free to disagree with me here if I'm saying this the wrong way, but with the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D., The biblical religion of Judaism ceased to exist.
Would you agree with that?
That was kind of the backdrop that kind of informed all of the church teaching when it came to who Israel is today.
That is what I believe, and that's what I believe that God believes.
Now, obviously, the religion, the various sects of Judaism is obviously still alive and well today.
I mean, it's still happening today.
People still believe it.
But yes, I believe that Christ was the fulfillment of that prophecy, and He was the ultimate sacrifice.
And I think that's rather clear.
Okay.
Well, I just wanted to make sure we covered that, because the 70 A.D. issue, I think, is something that is completely lost, and I think a lot of believers haven't really ever looked into that idea.
Jesus saying, hey, the temple's going to be destroyed, and then it actually coming to fruition.
All right, so, Edward Irving.
I know you've already mentioned Edward Irving, but briefly, tell us who Edward Irving was, and tell us this lady powerscort.
Who is she and how did she facilitate the introduction between Edward Irving and John Nelson Darby?
Right.
Okay.
Well, starting with Irving, as you know, he's the one that translated the book, fell in love with the eschatology.
Now, he fleshed it out even further, especially in terms of the Christian Zionism and God's separate plan for Israel down the road, right?
Now, at the same time, and this is something we can touch on now, come back to later, a lot of Christian Zionist ideas in the 1820s and 1830s were taking shape among a very famous family, the Rothschild family.
So we can come back to that.
There was also discussion of land being purchased in Jerusalem by the Rothschild family at the same time.
The Oxford University Press, where that book was printed, where Irving had it printed, was pretty much controlled at that point by the Rothschild family.
So those things are worth noting in the background because in my future articles we're definitely going to come back to that.
So, Lady Powers Court was a very, you know, high-class, wealthy English lady, and she was friends with John Nelson Darby, but when she attended, and I forget the name, I know it's in my article somewhere, of the prophetic conferences that Edward Irving was highlighted at, that he was putting on, she was so impressed she began to start her own PowerScore conferences at her mansion.
And Irving would come and stay with her.
She's also friends with Darby.
So they're all attending these same events.
Now, these are not like really, really large events.
You're going to know who's there.
You're going to rub elbows with other people.
Darby's attending, Irving's attending, she's attending.
I've not yet been able to find any specific correspondence between those two men, but it would have been impossible for them not to know each other.
And right on the heels of Irving coming out with this eschatology, and he was becoming very popular.
The only reason he lost so much popularity was toward the end of his ministry, and he died very young.
I think he died in his early 40s.
He started to kind of lose it.
He had a fixation I'm not making any claims personally right now about speaking in tongues, but there was a fixation on it that became incredibly unhealthy.
There was a fixation on healing that became unhealthy to the point that he was actually kicked out Of the church at that time.
Yeah, the church in Scotland deposed him in 1833, according to my research.
There you go.
Yeah.
Okay, perfect.
But then Darby's prowess at that point sort of took over, and he's the name that we all know today because of what he was able to do in the United States with Moody and with other major players in American Christianity.
So we get to John Nelson Darby, and he is, you know, essentially...
So the two issues are this, because this is where it comes down to, because, you know, we can talk about, hey, this idea of this dispensationalism and this rapture.
If you start to question it, if you start to question, hey, yeah, this pre-tribulation, pre-millennial rapture, I'm not so sure this is quite biblical, because if we go back and we look at the teachings of the Church for the first 1,800 years of existence, it just didn't exist.
It's a very relatively new debate.
Once you come to that conclusion, once you even start to think that, then you have to start looking at how they viewed the church after the destruction of the temple versus this idea of today, many American evangelicals believe that the church and the modern nation state, the secular modern nation state of Israel, are two separate things, are two different, I mean, they are two different things, don't get me wrong.
Yeah.
But that they're two different things in God's eyes.
And that the modern nation state of Israel is somehow the fulfillment of biblical prophecy today.
That was founded in 1948.
But if you go back and look at the church teaching, they obviously didn't teach that.
And I know the immediate criticism is going to be, well, it wasn't 1948 yet.
It hadn't happened.
It hadn't existed.
This big event hadn't happened yet.
However, it's not really about whether or not the event happened or not.
It's about what the Bible says about what Israel was, how they rejected the Messiah.
And versus who the church is now, how the church is our God's chosen people.
The church is God's chosen people.
What do you say to that?
Well, I would say that you're on the money because the day Jesus died from a Roman crucifixion, the veil within the temple was torn in two, right there at the Hall of Holies, giving all of us access.
To Christ.
So to say that Jesus didn't fulfill the prophecies is ridiculous.
I mentioned earlier that this Christian Zionist website was sent to me and I was digging into their defense of all the things that I'm talking against right now.
And it was basically saying, you know, that God does have a separate plan for Israel today and that Jesus, you know, he fulfilled it for Christians, but Jews still kind of have their place.
And if we deviate from that thinking, that we're going to end up persecuting Jews because God's not done with the Jews.
That's what it kept saying.
And I've had, you know, pastors that I respect say, God did not end his relationship with Jewish people.
No one's claiming that.
Based on your ethnic, you know, Jewishness, God's not claiming that he's ending a relationship.
All he did was he said, here's the way now that all can have access, Jew or Gentile, slave or free, you know, Greek or Hebrew, like we all can have access now to the Father through the person of Jesus Christ.
So that's not doing away with Jewish people.
It's saying now all are invited and here's the fulfillment of the new covenant that I give to you.
And so, you know, I don't want to say in my opinion, I just think it is.
I think Israel now are the followers of Christ.
That's why the Apostle Paul says, not all Israel are faithful Israel, and that the seed of Abraham is now the seed of faith, not the seed by birth.
Yeah, I mean, here's Romans 9, 6.
Not as though the word of God hath taken no effect, for they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.
Again, Romans 9, 8.
They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Even so, then, at this present time, also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Because of unbelief, the natural branches, Israel, were broken off, and thou standest by faith.
Be not high-minded, but fear.
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
And so, and here we go, and so all Israel shall be saved.
As it is written, there shall come out of a, is that supposed to be Zion?
Yeah, I'm using the same.
Zion the Deliverer, okay.
Sorry, I'm not used to this particular interpretation, forgive me.
And shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
Now the key here, folks, in this piece, we just talked to you earlier about how, you know, changing the definition of who the he was in Daniel 9, okay, radically kind of opened the door for this dispensationalism.
But what about this word, and so, right here, that you see it here?
Can you walk us through that, Jeremy?
Yes, I can.
And a quick note on the translation.
The reason I use the King James is that's what Lacunza would have been using at the time.
Yeah.
So we're going back to the source of what they would have been using, what Irving would have been using.
Yes.
And so all Israel shall be saved, which is an adverb of manner or how something is accomplished.
Now, all of the church fathers up to that time believed what exactly what I'm saying today, that all men come to God through faith in Christ, that that is their salvation.
I believe he changed it to the adverb.
What was the and I'm sorry, because sometimes when I'm in these interviews, I'll forget the specific wording.
I'm going to get us off the screen here so everybody can see it.
Right.
Lacunza changed it to the word then.
So when the fullness hath entered in or the time of the nations concluded, then all Israel shall be saved, which is an adverb of time.
So again, it puts us back into a futurist...
It's a completely different translation at that point.
If you change so to then, the so is talking about Israel being the church, right?
But if you say then, now, like you say, I mean, now it's saying like, well...
Then when people see this modern-day nation-state, secular nation-state of Israel, they say, see...
And let me ask you this, Jeremy, because so much of this, I really want to know.
I think part of this dispensationalism and the propensity to believe it is because people want a modern-day example to hold up to people to say, see, the Bible is real, Christianity is real.
I think there's a psychological component to this.
I mean, in this age of science, in this age where you have all of this atheistic garbage that's been promoted for the last 50 years, even though the people at the top of it are not atheists, by the way, but they're basically trying to push God out of public life.
You know, along comes the nation-state of Israel that gets, you know, reassembled in 1948, and people are saying, you know, they want to say, see?
You know, repent, the Bible is real.
There are a lot of people, I think, that that's one of the reasons they are so locked into this mindset.
100%.
You know, and if I was, you know, Christians and Jews throughout the centuries prior to the 1800s did not really, they had a very rocky relationship, right?
Because you've got one group of people saying, hey, the Messiah has come.
The other group is saying, no, he hasn't.
And it wasn't pretty a lot of times.
And much of that came from What the Talmud teaches, etc.
But if I were the Rothschild's family, or I were these Zionists that wanted to have a nation state for whatever reason, but I knew that the Christians were going to not really be on our team, I would want to get them on our team.
And this is the perfect thing.
If you can infect the theology of the seminaries and the pastors down the road to really say, hey, anything Israel does because they're still God's chosen people.
They're still special forever.
So we really need to look the other way if they do anything wrong.
And anytime they do something right, Man, we're going to support them all the way.
They've turned us into controlled opposition.
And not only that, they've turned us into the biggest funders of anything that they do.
I mean, we've given more money as a nation since 1948 to Israel, tiny little New Jersey-sized Israel, than any other country in the world.
We're approaching 300 It's incredibly sophisticated and smart and very smart that they were able to do this because now some of the woke stuff and the things that modern day Christians and conservative Americans are working against is the very thing that many of these Jewish leaders are putting on the American people.
Not to mention, I've got to throw this in, that The Jewish lobbies gave four times, four times the amount of money to Joe Biden's campaign in 2020 than they gave to Donald Trump.
And that's just a fact.
Yeah.
So most Christians have no clue.
I'm not saying Donald Trump's right on everything.
I think he's captured by some of this same stuff.
Yeah, of course.
But that would blow Christians' mind, amongst many other things.
Well, you know, just like a lot of Christians have no idea that there are Christian churches in Gaza that have been totally destroyed since October the 7th.
Let me pose this question.
Let me go to the other side here.
Again, there are Christians that are more Zionist.
There are Christians that are, you know, dispensationalists.
They think the modern nation state of Israel, even though it's secular, is a fulfillment of biblical prophecy.
But then there are Christians, like you and me, in America that don't think that way.
And then there are Christians that don't think that way, but still think it's in our...
They don't believe that...
They're not Zionists.
They don't believe that the nation-state of Israel is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy.
They believe like the Church taught for the first 1800 years.
But they still say things like, but I think it's still in our national interest geopolitically to back Israel in the Middle East.
What do you say to those people?
I would say first thing first, you know, we have a country of our own that's $33 trillion in debt.
So this fake money we're sending everywhere based on somebody with a computer, it's not even legitimate.
Like we're extremely in debt.
We just went through the global like, you know, COVID scandemic.
We had the whole Ukraine war.
I mean, our country right now is in shambles for the most part, and it's getting worse.
We've got a wide open border.
So to be dumping more money into a foreign war, I mean, yeah, if it's going to serve us like immediately for a month or two to get behind somebody or to help so that, you know, an Islamic caliphate doesn't happen or something like that, sure, sure.
but to engage in a genocide because that's what it is at this point and most people at the national religious broadcasters conference because i polled them had no clue they they think well the death toll is probably equal on both sides you got about you they that's what they think you got about 2,000 um you know israelis that that have died and i'm not diminishing that it's terrible when anyone dies on the other side
you've got over 30,000 now including 10,000 children and most of them are dying in bombing campaigns by an artificial intelligence bombing campaign that israel you probably know that paul you know the name that they've given their their artificial intelligence bombing campaign No, I do not.
The gospel.
Oh, wow.
That's what Israel has named their bombing campaign that has now taken the lives of 30,000, mostly civilians, 10,000 children.
And people don't know that.
So Christians are being mocked without knowing it.
And I would say we need to focus.
If you're America first, you need to prove it.
And that goes for Israel, too.
You need to be America first because our country's going down and they're mocking you while you dump money on them.
All right, so the National Religious Broadcasters Conference.
You were recently there.
It happened last week.
We were originally going to do this interview on Friday, but I know that attending the conference was a lot of work because I know what you were doing there.
So we rescheduled it today, on this Tuesday.
Can you tell the Millstone Report audience what were you doing at the National Religious Broadcasters Conference?
Yeah.
Well, you know, I consider myself a Christian broadcaster.
There's no doubt about that.
So that makes sense for me to go.
I went last year as well.
And what struck me last year when I went was the amount of support for Israel and people that had, what do you call it, exposés?
People that had booths that were either straight Jewish, nothing to do with Christianity, or Christian Zionists, you know, all this kind of stuff.
And it was like an overwhelming amount of it.
I mean, I looked around and, you know, I would say Star of David, but for the general audience, well, I would say Star of Rimfan, but there were Star of Davids everywhere.
And not that many crosses.
Not to say people aren't there for good reason or for Christian ministry reasons.
And I want to be careful because I love so many of these people.
But you've got Dennis Prager as a keynote speaker.
And then after him, you've got all the usual Christian ministry suspects, which are good guys in many cases.
You know, Eric Metaxas and Jack Hibbs and many pastors here in Tennessee that have big names that I know personally.
And again, I hate that I'm saying these things because I love these men on many levels.
But when it comes to Christian Zionism, all in 100 percent.
And I had a choice to make.
I could either go there and start trying to have the hard conversations at really what is institutional Christianity.
This is the 501c3.
This is our company.
This is what we support.
And they've got Star of Davids all over the place.
Like, is that really the place where I'm going to be able to have conversations that's going to topple maybe some of what they Are there to talk about?
No, it's just not going to happen.
So what I did instead was I put together a list of five or six questions that I went to people earnestly.
I just say, I want to ask a couple questions here.
You know, what do you think about 9-11?
Do you believe the mainstream narrative on 9-11?
Have you ever heard of the Talmud?
And if so, how important do you think it is today?
How many people, how many Israelis have died in the current war, the current conflict over there in Israel and Palestine?
How many Gazans have died?
And there were a couple other questions.
And what I found was a deep level of naivete.
Where they'd never heard of the Talmud, or they're like, well, isn't it a book that some rabbis believe?
But no understanding that the Jewish encyclopedia itself It says that if you do not understand or know the Talmud, you cannot understand modern-day Judaism.
So it's a really, really big deal.
And when it came to the numbers of deaths, they had no clue.
Mostly because, I think, the people that were there to promote Christian Zionism don't want you to look at the numbers.
Because you pass a certain threshold and you can't just say, well, Hamas uses human shields.
You can't possibly be that good to have a human shield for 30,000 to die.
So, you know, which is kind of comforting because I would rather try to bring truth to a naive group of people than I would to people that were nefarious who openly were trying to suppress the truth.
And I think you have more naivete on the Christian side.
Absolutely, you have.
Most of the people in that room, the Christian broadcasters in that room, they're disgusted with the state of American culture.
They know that this country was founded as a Christian nation.
They know that we're seeing the paganization of America.
They know that...
You know, kids are, you know, the idea of genital mutilation surgeries and calling it healthcare, taking kids to drag shows so they can be ogled by half-naked, you know, pedophiles.
They know that pedophilia is becoming a Western value.
They know that pornography is a scourge on society and it's more psychologically damaging than any illicit street drug.
They know about all of our problems.
We would agree on all of those, but I don't necessarily know if they've looked into who's behind funding all of these terrible things behind all of this.
For example, Pornhub is owned by a rabbi.
I mean, that's common knowledge.
Well, why is that?
You would think...
That would be a giant inconsistency.
Apparently it's not an inconsistency.
But the thing is, though, Paul, is it common knowledge?
You know, it's easy to find.
Well, among us it is.
Most people don't know.
But they don't know.
So you're doing the work here.
I mean, you're confronting them with the truth in love, which is what you would want to do for Christian brothers who just, if there's information out there they don't know, they just don't know.
Again, what I said at the top of the show in the monologue, we agree on what the gospel is.
We agree about, you know, Jesus' life here on earth, his death, his burial, his resurrection, his ascension into the heaven, and that he is coming again.
And that's why I started it with this, because I wanted to start it with the unity around Jesus Christ, that Christians have in Jesus Christ, because I know, you know, just like, I used to be partial to this dispensationalism in thinking that Israel was the fulfillment of, the modern-day state of Israel was the fulfillment of, you know, biblical prophecy.
And I know you thought that too, and we thought there was nothing wrong with that.
There was information we just simply did not have.
And so we want to be sure to treat others with that same kind of care, but at the same time, we can't back away from the truth.
That's right.
Within our theology, there's open-handed issues and there's closed-handed issues.
And, you know, there are issues that are pretty important where there's some major deceptions going on that kind of fall in the middle.
And I think this is one of those where we have to not be so naive that we're getting taken major, major advantage of.
And, yeah, I mean, the thing is, if I'm wrong— Well, let's just take Gaza.
I'm sorry.
Let's just take Gaza.
I mean, this is something that really should be an easy one.
I mean, this is one where you could be more forceful.
I mean, you know, the thousands of people that died, you know, in Israel on October 7th, whether the security breach was allowed to happen or not, just take how many deaths there were on October 7th versus, what did you say, 30,000?
40,000?
Yeah.
In Gaza since, right?
That's right.
I mean, come on.
And if you don't know that, well, once you know that, then you have to confront, this is not, this is a genocide.
This is wrong.
It's wrong.
Because most of the, first of all, most of them are kids, and not everybody's a human shield.
It's just insane.
You know, you had Kid Rock on Joe Rogan the other day who was saying, oh no, we need to bomb the F out of him.
You know, he thinks there needs to be more death.
And it's just like, for Christians in America, they don't know this.
They're not hearing this from Fox News.
But once they find that out, I don't see how, as a Christian, you can't be praying for peace and say, this needs to stop.
This is wrong.
This is an overreaction.
You can't do this.
You can't just...
You've got to look...
That's right.
And you've got to look historically, too.
Since 1948, look at the maps.
You know, the Jewish side of Israel versus Palestine, Gaza.
Every time, you know, as time has gone on, every time that Islamic extremism has attacked Israel, they lose.
Every single time.
And I think you kind of glossed over it because you were making a different point.
This idea that all of a sudden all these guys with parachutes, I forget exactly what those are called, but that they just were able to breach this extremely secure border and get through and do the kind of damage that they did.
And you find out then that one of the key people that were intercepting messages from Hamas was told to stand down.
about a month before and he's in tears telling his story about why did they make me do this?
Why did they make me do this?
I've got IDF soldiers on video that talk about we gave Hamas 30 million dollars like on pallets in trucks over the last couple of years and you start putting two or two together you're like this sounds a lot like 9-11 and then you realize wait Netanyahu and the top key people uh they were calling it their 9-11 like the next day So I think they're telling you more truth than they would like you to know.
I'm sure most of your audience has woken up to 9-11, right?
Oh, of course.
Yeah.
The Stu Peters audience on the Stu Peters Network certainly has.
Right.
So if we want to save lives, if we want to get to the bottom of this, we've got to look up who's funding it, who's behind it, and who benefits.
Who benefited from 9-11, really?
Who's going to ultimately benefit from this attack?
It certainly isn't Gaza.
It certainly is not the Palestinians.
So did they just flub up and make another dumb decision?
Or are they being allowed to do things?
I very much think that you've got a sophisticated, smart evil.
That is using barbaric evil.
I'm not saying Hamas is good.
Let's make that very clear.
They're using a barbaric evil to further their geopolitical agenda.
And it's happening again and again and again.
And dumb Americans are just going along with it because they're told God's chosen people.
And the conversation ends right there.
And it comes down to this end times philosophy.
It comes down to this end times eschatology that, again, and I want to reiterate this, for those of you that maybe have never heard this, for 1800 years, this is not what the Church taught.
And so that alone is a red flag enough to say, go do your own research.
And I know that you even say that in your piece, and we're going to link your Substack piece here in the description of this video.
So it's right there for you right now.
If you want to click on it and read more, people are going to need to subscribe to your Substack, Jeremy, and make sure that they are going to get the latest articles that are going to come out more on these topics.
But yeah, I mean, it's just vital that we get the truth out there.
What do you know about Billy Graham?
Billy Graham is a very well respected evangelical pastor, right?
I mean, people remember his crusades for Christ, right?
You think the average evangelical holds somebody like Billy Graham, the late Billy Graham, in high regard?
Would you say that?
I would say he would be held in the highest of regards.
Yeah, me too.
I mean, I grew up hearing all about him.
I think I even went and my parents even took me to one of his sermons or one of his crusades one time.
I remember I didn't want to go and I think I fell asleep.
But that's no insult against Billy Graham.
It's just, you know, I was a kid and I didn't want to be there.
Sure.
So Richard Nixon.
So in 2018, there was a conversation That was leaked.
Back when Richard Nixon was president, Billy Graham came to the White House a couple of times, and there are these recordings, the tapes, and they were released in 2018, and a lot of people have kind of glossed over them.
They haven't really talked about what was said.
Specifically, Richard Nixon and Billy Graham were talking about Israel and the Jews, and Billy Graham was concerned...
We're just going to let you hear it.
He was concerned about the infiltration of the American government by people who were Zionists.
I've got that video for us, Jeremy, so we're going to play it.
Take a listen.
You see, the Bible makes a distinction, Mr.
President, between two groups of Jews.
One is called the Synagogue of Satan.
There's two different kinds.
And those people in the latter days, it's called the remnant of God's people, which will be Jewish people.
And then there's the Synagogue of Satan.
And all of your religious deceptions in the latter days, what the Bible speaks, latter days would be a thousand years, what they call the Synagogue of Satan.
In other words, they are energized by a supernatural power called the devil.
This is what the Bible teaches.
When you believe it or don't believe it, this is the Biblical teaching.
This is what I believe.
And I believe that they have a strange brilliance about you.
They're smart.
And they are energized, in my judgment, by supernatural power.
They have a stranglehold on Germany.
On the banking of Germany, on everything in Germany, and the media, they had the whole thing, you see.
But he went about it wrong.
But this stranglehold has got to be broken, or this country is going to go down the drain.
Yes, sir.
I can never say it, but I believe it.
No, but it's different.
It's actually fine.
We might be able to do something.
So he says, Richard Nixon says there, I believe it, but I can never say it.
You know, even Billy Graham seems to be kind of buying into a little bit of this dispensational theology, which is very ironic here, you know, when he talks about this remnant.
And I know we don't want to get into the weeds there, but I just find that very interesting.
But what was your reaction when you first heard those released tapes of Billy Graham and Richard Nixon?
Well, it's encouraging because he's saying out loud some things, even though he's not saying it publicly, that's a private conversation.
He's saying some things that are very true, both in suppressed history.
Not many people know what was going on in Germany.
All we ever hear is that Hitler just absolutely hated Jews.
That's all we're taught, right?
But if you go back and look, okay, why?
Ask the question, why?
Did he hate their skin color?
Did he hate the way they looked?
No, Billy Graham said it right.
He said there was an infiltration into the politics, into the media, in the big cities, the Weimar Republic.
I mean, there was a Jewish, and when I say that, I mean synagogue of Satan side, energized by supernatural power.
Where they were engaging in the worst kinds.
I mean, the transgender clinics that were forming over there even back then.
That stuff was going on, and Hitler actually was cleaning some of that up.
Now, Billy Graham said it.
He said, Hitler went about it wrong.
We're not talking about getting rid of people, but we are talking about being aware of what's going on.
And Jesus says it in the book of Revelation.
He said, there are those who call themselves Jews, but are not Jews.
They are a synagogue of Satan.
He says, I know your poverty, but you are rich.
He says that about him.
So we always hear about how poor they are, how persecuted they are.
But I know this, many of the wealthiest people in the world, from Larry Fink to Albert Bourla, the head of Pfizer, to the Rothschild family.
I mean, you just go down the list of extreme wealth and extreme control.
Many times it's people who claim to be Jewish.
What do we do with that?
We can all wrestle with what do we do with that.
But Jesus himself said, in the latter days, you better watch out because there's a group of people that do that.
I find it almost humorous that Billy Graham, the most respected of Christian evangelicals, would say things that I think most people at that NRB conference, for instance, If they didn't know it was Billy Graham, they'd say, what kind of anti-Semitism is happening here?
But that's why that stuff is suppressed, and that's why Nixon said, I could never say it out loud, but I believe it.
Is this emotionally draining for you?
Do you have friends and family that don't want to, I don't know, that are just disappointed in you for taking this line?
Because it just makes people uncomfortable.
I mean, even listening to you just now, I can't deny it's like, well, you're not supposed to talk like that.
I mean, I agree with you, but you know what I'm saying?
I mean, we've been raised in this post-World War II dynamic, and I mean, the propaganda, the conditioning is real.
It's extremely real.
This is extremely hard.
It's why my face is like red right now.
I get hot because I'm just like, I know that these are touchy subjects, but I also know that what Billy said was true.
If we don't get a handle on this now, this country's going to go down the drain.
And I'll tell you, we're swirling that drain right now.
I think most of your audience knows that.
I read this on Stu Peter's show, and I think it'll make the point.
So let's just look at the Biden administration, okay?
I would think the Secretary of the Treasury is important.
I would think the Attorney General of the United States is important.
I would think the Secretary of Homeland Security is important, the Director of National Intelligence, the White House Chief of Staff, the Secretary of Health, the Secretary of State, the Deputy Secretary of State, the Secretary for Political Affairs.
The Office of Science and Technology, the Director of the CIA, among others.
I could keep going.
Those are important positions, right?
What is one thing they all have in common right now?
They all claim to be Jewish.
All of them.
What's another, and again, like, hard to say, but it's true.
It's a fact, right?
What's another layer to that?
Well, you'd think, okay, well, maybe Jews make up a large, you know, cross-section of the United States.
No, it's 2% or less.
2% or less.
So how is that possible?
Now, I could do that with politics.
I could do that with media.
I could do that with so many different categories where power shifts this country.
So there's something people aren't willing to say, just like Richard Nixon was not willing to say it.
But until we're acknowledging, okay, this thing exists, Then we can talk about solutions.
I'm not talking about violent solutions, nothing like that.
But we need to have a litmus test that is, are you America first or is there something else going on here?
Because if you're not America, even if you're Israel first, that's a problem.
You don't need right now to be involved if you're not America first.
Well, the reason I wanted to have you on is because I wanted to kind of base this, you know, the design of this interview went exactly as I hoped it would go.
But I want to send it back as we close here on the Bible and on this idea of church history.
Because I think if you start to go back and you start to look at what...
Church fathers taught about the end times versus this, again, 150-year-old new thing, this new dispensationalism.
It's going to create in you some questions, and if you settle these questions, it's going to lead to a different worldview, and it's going to lead to this idea.
I mean, if dispensationalism is not biblical and the church had it right for the first 1,800 years— Then what does that say about the secular nation-state of Israel?
Is it sacred today when it's not even run by practicing Jews?
Is it the fulfillment of biblical prophecy?
Does it have a part to play in the end?
I don't know.
Maybe.
But just in terms of this discussion, I wanted people to understand that if what you said made anyone uncomfortable, Just go back to the Bible, study the Bible itself,
but also look up this ancient 2,000-year interpretation versus this one little 150-year blip that has captivated and captured the National Religious Broadcasters Conference that disseminates all of their information to Christians as they are driving to work, listening to the radio.
I mean, it's something that needs to be talked about.
Yeah, I would ask all of the listeners to this, think about this.
You know, I was brought up with premillennial dispensationalism and support Israel and the whole bit, right?
How did I land there?
Was it from my open and honest reading of the Bible and that's just where I landed?
Or was it because I had pastor after pastor after pastor, seminary trained?
Interpret things in a way that led me to that very complex view of the end times.
And to be flat out honest, it was absolutely the latter.
I would not have come to that place of, okay, it's going to get worse and worse and worse, no matter how much we occupy until he comes.
It's just going to get worse, which is a self-fulfilling prophecy, by the way.
It's why all these people with the best ideas never seem to win, because we believe we're going to lose, right?
So it's going to get worse and worse and worse.
Then we're going to get raptured, but nobody's going to know about it except the Christians because it's going to be invisible.
Kind of weird.
Then we're going to be taken off for seven years.
Then there's going to be, you know, at the three and a half year mark, there's going to be this deal made between the Antichrist and Israel.
Like, it's super complex.
And specific.
And specific.
Yeah.
It's not something that your average person's going to read the Bible and they're just not going to go there.
So I would say go back to the Bible and try to read it With very innocent eyes, if you can, and say, where would I land if I hadn't been told what to believe about this?
Yeah.
Yeah, that's really good.
Jeremy Sladen, you can find all your work at JSlayUSA across all platforms.
Across all platforms.
I prefer Instagram, Rumble, and Substack.
All right.
Well, we really appreciate it, sir.
Thank you so much.
And let's do this again soon when you come up with another article.
I want to hear about it.
Thank you, Paul.
I'd be happy to come on.
Folks, that's all the time we have for this edition of the Millstone Report.
We will see you tomorrow.
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