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Jan. 30, 2024 - Stew Peters Show
59:35
Medical Assisted Suicide In Minnesota: Veteran Targeted
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Time Text
I'm going to go.
End their misery, so to speak.
This is something that's happening in Canada, in my opinion, not very successfully.
As it turns out, they've been doing it for about a year.
But today, my good buddy Mike has come back on the show, as he promised.
We're going to have a conversation about how this type of thing might affect veterans and their families.
So stick with us.
Don't go away.
We start now.
Hey everybody, welcome here to the next episode of The Richard Leonard Show.
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So we're going to start now.
I've got to find Mikey.
There he is.
Hey, Mike.
How are you doing, buddy?
Welcome.
What's up, Big and Rich?
How you doing, brother?
Not too bad, not too bad.
So let's dive right in, brother.
As you probably heard in the intro, Minnesota this past week has been starting to have discussions and intake testimony from community members and things of that nature about doctor-assisted suicide.
I think that this is a topic that is a tough one to talk about, so I hope that it's okay that we talk about it.
I think that there is a potential for it to affect the veteran community in a way that we have never seen before.
So let's just start by this.
Let me ask you, what is your opinion on having the ability to go to a doctor, get a note for a pill, lay down in your bed, take this pill, and then that's it.
Life's over.
Just like that.
What do you think?
That's a bomb.
Well, you're dropping a bomb on me today.
I'm a little foggy.
I got a bit of a anger, so this is going to take a minute to wrap my brain around.
I wasn't really on my radar at all, but I mean...
Thinking back growing up, I don't even know if this dude's still around, is he?
But I mean, I know when we were younger, maybe even kids, I don't know.
Kevorkian was in the news a lot, right?
Dr.
Kevorkian.
So it's not like it's brand new to me, but damn.
My initial thoughts is it makes perfect sense.
Like, it seems like the machine's working and getting what they want out of us, so they fill the border with fentanyl.
And the rest of us that don't kill ourselves off, they make it legal to take a pill and kill yourself off, and then they turn over Roe versus Wade, so then they can just take our babies to Epstein Island and just rule the world, I guess.
Is that the plan?
I don't know.
Well, that's a very good question.
It's an interesting perspective.
I don't disagree with you.
The intent is really, in my opinion, the little bit of reading I've done on it, the intent of the state actually is pretty vague.
And I think that they were holding events, much like they did last week, to try to get perspective from people in different communities.
Now, here in Minnesota, the United Veterans Leadership Council was invited to give a...
Testimony about how something like this may affect the veteran population and take a veteran perspective, which I appreciate and I'm surprised by because if anybody listening is from Minnesota or knows anything about Minnesota, our legislature is not very inclusive to ideas that don't align with the things they got going on.
So this was a surprise that veterans were even invited to the table.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I'd say so.
What does it look like to you if this, say, were to pass?
We already know that the so-called elected officials will screw it up.
So what would it look like to you?
Like, if it was something, whether you're for or against it, what would the process look like?
Surely it's not just a Walk in, take a pill, and be done.
There's got to be a several month process, I would think, huh?
Well, actually, no.
Not at all.
To the best of my knowledge, nobody's put out how the state of Minnesota or any other place in the United States of America plans to do this.
But the way that it works in Canada, from what I understand, and I'm sure I'll have some of it wrong, and I'll get roasted in the comments, but that's okay.
That's fine, that's what it's for, yeah.
Enlighten us, yeah.
Right, exactly.
But to my understanding, it's as easy as going to your doctor, explaining to them why you want to do this, and they can write you a prescription for this pill, or this series of pills, or whatever it is, and you can go home that day and end your life.
Yeah, I totally disagree with that.
I mean, that's wild.
There's way too many issues in society to just be handing out death pills.
I mean, that's crazy, man.
I think if it was...
To answer your initial question, I think I'm for it.
I'm 100% for it in due process.
I guess my version of it just like I said just getting like I don't know anything about it hasn't been on my radar but if I was to start jotting down ideas I think I'd start with maybe a six to twelve month plan.
You know how the VA strings us out almost so long if you need treatment for something that by the time you're close to getting it you pretty much give it up you're like screw it I don't even want to go through with it anymore.
I think it should almost be like that.
Not to the point where you're just going to drive somebody to like, you know, ending it in a car accident or however people want to end it, but I think there's hope for, I don't know what the statistics are right now for suicide rate, but I bet most people that were thinking about it could probably be saved and enlightened and lead a pretty good life.
Where I'm for it, I guess, is people that are, say, I already get in a horrible motorcycle accident and I pulled through, but I just drooled on myself and shit my pants all day.
To me, that's not a quality of life for me.
Absolutely.
For some, it might be.
And good for them.
There's a lot stronger people out there than me that would accept that.
I wouldn't, and so I'd be asking for the pill if I pulled through in that state.
So those types of situations, I agree with a thousand percent.
The other stuff is, to me, it's not that easy as saying, yeah, I get it, or I approve, or I disapprove, because I believe that there's a lot of people to think about in this situation.
We often talk about The impact that veteran suicide has on the community, family, children, friends, coworkers, all that stuff, which isn't a whole lot different than any civilian person taking their own life.
But where it becomes a slippery slope for me, man, is that...
I think that there's many people who decide to take themselves deep that are committed to doing it.
And I think that if you take a person who has thought about it, made a plan, maybe not done all of the steps that could help them to feel better, but have done some work and are finding that they're feeling like they haven't gotten anywhere and they decide to do this anyway, I think about the friends and families and spouses and kids and all that stuff.
You know, I had a friend in college that hung himself in his closet.
And so I put myself back in that situation and I think it would have been a whole lot less impactful negatively to my life at 18 years old to find one of my good friends hanging in his closet.
If he was just laying in bed and he had died and then left the notes that he left for everybody so that we all knew what was going on versus opening a door because there's some weird music playing on repeat and then finding him in that situation and then seeing that he was hanging so low that he could have just stood up at any time, which means he was committed to doing this.
Yeah, he was committed to it.
Yeah, for sure.
And so in that instance, I think that, well, the impact that it has on everybody else is a little bit better.
Not that losing anybody is easy, but it makes it a little bit better.
At least your final vision of them is not some tragic crime scene.
But I think...
So let me know how you feel about this, because here's my other thought about it.
That as it relates to veterans...
The idea that we can just take a pill and end it all can be super, super impactful in a negative and positive way like we just talked about.
But...
There's just a lot of things that don't come to light in these situations.
What exactly was this person going through?
Could I have helped them?
Could you have helped them?
Could somebody else have helped them by just acknowledging that you've been there and that you've persevered?
Yeah, so in my eyes, and you're right, that's kind of where my gears are going, is everyone else involved.
I lost a stepbrother the same way you just described your friend hung himself on Mother's Day.
Shout out to my stepmom, Julie.
Same deal, and it's weird.
I feel like they're, so that's the first step, but the tools.
So in my eyes, if this was a thing, I think we can agree on the extreme cases, right?
Like, if you became basically a vegetable but could still, like, say, hey, I want the pill.
Like, that's...
I think everyone would be on board with that, right?
I don't think that's that controversial.
So I think what we're all talking about is, yeah, depression, basically, right?
Yeah, mental illness.
Mental illness.
So in that regard, yeah, I think it's almost like...
In intervention and if you don't have family and you're the only one, you know, maybe you're the only one living in your family or you just don't have anybody, I think if the state were to do this, then they have to supply, say, a battle buddy, a mentor for this person.
And we go through, I think the first step, man, and a lot of people will be like, oh, Jesus, what's this, Aaron Roberts or something?
But seriously, like a retreat, an ayahuasca retreat, and let's find what demons are really bothering you and see if we can pull through it or not, you know?
And then, of course, I'm an advocate for the psilocybin.
So ayahuasca retreat with a family member or two or three or as many as you need for support and let you go on a little journey and then follow that up with several months of guided and supervised psilocybin treatments.
And again, like, I feel like if they don't have anybody in their life, then the state supplies somebody.
A veteran, somebody who's been through the program and decided, you know what, suicide's not for me, and then they turn into that sponsor, maybe, you know?
Well, yeah, and that's a very good point because the VA, many years ago, instituted this program of peer mentors.
So, I mean, it could be something similar to that.
And so, that makes me think of this, Mike.
Maybe the conversation, and we can talk about this ongoing, but maybe the conversation isn't as much about the assisted suicide, whether or not it's good or not.
Maybe the conversation, as it relates to the veteran community, is why don't we talk about, not the suicide, but talk about why and how you got to where you're at.
100%.
Because I think, I don't mean to cut you off, but let me just finish this thought quick.
I think that a lot of veterans who have taken themselves deep, a huge part of the reason that it happens is that they feel like they're alone.
They feel like they don't have anybody to talk to that understands.
It's really difficult for a lot of guys.
It was for me to walk into the VA and get mental health help from some lady that I knew learned about what I'm experiencing from a book.
So I don't think that helps.
I just think that there is a lot of different ways to be able to address this issue with our brothers and sisters other than telling them, yeah, man, if you want to take a pill and end it, that's cool.
Because at the end of the day, my belief is that if you really have a plan and you're going to do it, you're going to do it.
So I'm not going to necessarily forbid you from going to a doctor to get this pill, but what I'm going to beg of you is that you and I, or we as a group, as a community, we have conversations about how do we get out of this darkness?
Because you're not alone.
I was there.
You were there.
Jason's been there.
We know many people who have been there and have persevered through it and understand that as bad as the outlook looks right now, it's not always going to be that way.
And all you have to do is weather the storm.
Yep.
Just like you did in the military.
I agree.
Yep.
And yeah, initially, when I first heard of it, I was like, oh, that's cool.
I think veterans should give up that right as soon as they signed on the dotted line.
You know, that was my initial response.
But then it's like, yeah, they struggle, you know, more than anybody.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I recant that thought.
But I think that's the process is more of a mentorship to see if it's really legit feelings.
It is right now, but can you work through them?
Yeah.
I had been to the VA for it before.
You know, I was...
I didn't...
We all have stories about the VA, right?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
That could probably be a whole other show in itself.
It is.
It is.
I have so many stories.
But I know for sure that when I was kind of coaxed into taking some antidepressants for the first couple times, I'd go in there, is this working?
I'm like, no, I mean, it sucks and there's side effects and then And then, by the end of it, I felt like a rape victim and a criminal at the same time, because they looked at me like I was an idiot.
And finally, I was just like, you know what?
Keep your pills.
I don't want any of this shit.
I'll figure it out on my own.
And that's where it's been ever since, because they treated me like a criminal, like I was trying to pull something off or get one over on them, or like...
Be compensated or something.
I just walked out so mad so many times.
Yeah.
And so it's got to be different than that.
And not just VA, but civilians, I would assume too.
There's a little more empathy there in civilian clinics, but they're so overworked and that's a whole other show in itself, just healthcare in general.
But I think it's got to go the other route.
I think you got to use nature and actual human beings that You know, what was his name, Chris Kyle, that would shoot with the veterans?
Yep.
Stuff like, you know, get volunteers to go out with people and get to know them on a human level, not the doctor relationship, because it's bullshit and we all know it.
Yes.
You gotta find somebody on a human level and do something outside of their norm to find what makes you happy and pull through.
Well, and I think also, man, that there is this, and we've talked about it many times on the show, and I know that you're no stranger to it, but there's this instant connection that you make when you meet another veteran.
And it's been talked about a billion times, but it's so true.
And the idea that Just that initial conversation that you have with somebody could change their whole way of thinking and effectively save their life.
But for some reason, when we as a country, as a society, talk about veteran suicide, there's a whole lot of talk about, well, we can do this program and this program and this program, and I think it'll be very impactful and blah blah blah, which is all well and good.
But I've never one time in all of my years of work in the veteran service industry and just being a veteran myself and being around other vets have ever heard anybody say, well, why don't we just talk to them?
Why don't we just talk to them about how they got there?
Do these folks know?
Maybe the dude that they work with that maybe has mentioned that he served was suicidal or was going through some things.
Why don't we hook them guys up?
I'm sure that it's been done, but it's never like an initiative.
And I think why, and this is going to be the tinfoil hat part of my spiel, and I think part of the reason why is that there's no money to be made on just being a good brother to another person who wore the same uniform you did.
There's no non-profit that you can start to charge the VA for services to be just a good friend to another person that wore a uniform.
And sometimes I wonder if this initiative to end veteran suicide is as front burner as they make it sound when they talk about it.
Because how long have they been reporting that the number is 22 a day?
No, they're not.
We already know that.
Otherwise, you know, we wouldn't be getting a bag full of Vicodin in the mailbox every month, you know?
Right.
That's the solution, which many of us have been down for years and years.
Exactly.
Many ask about more normal, hey, this isn't, you know, ideal.
You know, I remember asking a few years back when I was still on Vicodin, and it was like, Is there any plan to try CBD and THC instead of this?
And again, looked at me like I was a unicorn, basically laughed in my face and scoffed at me like, the bee doesn't believe in that.
Are you kidding?
Are you crazy?
And I'm like, okay, just keep sending me heroin in the mail every month.
Yeah, and you get that reaction from them like you just told some blue-haired kid on the corner that there's only two genders in this country or in this world.
And they want to fly off the handle and whoop your ass about it.
Yeah, it's crazy the reactions you get.
It takes such a big transformation inside people.
The VA, I mean, it's way beyond just this pill and suicide.
It's the whole thing.
And you're right, there is a way to make money off it, but nobody's doing it yet.
We're making tons and tons.
I don't know, are we into the billions of our homeless and just supplying them with pop-up shelters and stuff?
I mean, all that's become a huge industry, right?
So it's like, I know we can make it an industry.
I know we can make it a good business, but...
Does anyone want to, or do they just want to keep killing us off and thinning the herd?
I don't know.
Well, you know, that's a really good...
I never thought of it that way, but yes, you're right.
The homeless is a huge business.
Yeah.
And when you really stop to think about it, it's really sad.
That's really effed up.
These people are suffering.
Some of them, now, I will say some of them choose to be there, but not many.
Oh, yeah.
But they're suffering.
And here are folks that are making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year doing good for the homeless.
Well, if we're doing good for the homeless, why are they still homeless?
I think a lot of them prefer it.
I mean, shout out to Aguilar, right?
That was his plan when we got out, is...
Be homeless.
Do you remember that?
I do not remember that.
Did he ever do it?
I don't know.
He probably did for a while, but that was his plan and he was serious.
I'd question on it.
Like, I thought he was just, you know, messing with me, but he was serious.
And I hope not.
You know, I hope he did better for himself.
But yeah, I think a lot of people definitely choose that.
And again, it goes to mental health.
And then again, that goes to, you know, Odean on fentanyl and the whole package.
But yeah, there's definitely an industry out there thriving off it.
I mean, there's companies making millions and millions a year just applying stupid little shelters.
We don't tackle the problem.
And to me, that almost is like I have a whole other...
We got a whole other issue on...
Because both these topics, to me, Flow into one that I'm also very passionate about, which is prison reform.
But I think homeless people, if you want, you know, food and a place to stay, it ain't free, man.
Nobody wants to just pay taxes in for people to live in a homeless shelter.
But you damn sure could make t-shirts or something that we need.
American flags.
How many people have an American flag right now that says Made in China on it?
If the homeless want a free place to sleep and food, you're going to make a flag today or six, you know?
Yeah.
Yes.
You don't get to stay here for free.
Yeah.
You don't get to be on my streets for free.
Otherwise, let's ship them all to the desert as far as I'm concerned.
because you guys want to live in a commune and just, you know, shit in public and do your thing, then let's find you all a spot to live so that it's not on front of my kids' school.
You're a thousand percent right.
There has to be buy-in.
These folks that want things have to be willing to do something to contribute to obtain it.
Just like everybody else does.
You work hard as hell for your money.
I work hard for my money.
And so if I got nothing, it's because it's my own fault.
I have been given many opportunities to be successful.
And so if I choose to never take any of them, I got nobody to blame.
And so for me, it falls short on me how anybody can comprehend and support that theory that, well, you know, they're just down on their luck.
Let's just give them a place to stay, which is cool for a week or two maybe.
And there is that, right?
There is that.
And I'm not mad at people that want to live that way at all.
I just think if you want to do it, cool, but here's how we're going to do it.
You don't just get free reign of the country necessarily, right?
And I don't, again, we're not here to spout out statistics, so you can comment on that.
But I think it's a very, very small group of homeless people that are down on their luck, but there are some.
I could be one of them if I didn't have friends or family.
I've had several hard streaks in my life.
Absolutely.
Or I needed a helping hand or a friend or whatever, an opportunity.
And so those happen.
But even if you were one of them, Richard, and you were in a homeless camp, wouldn't you want the responsibility to just say, I'm just using making flags because it's an easy example, but Would you want the responsibility, the opportunity to, one, you're learning a skill and a trade that could turn into a job, but to do something, like, you don't want to just sit around idle all day, right?
So I think it's win-win, because I am, again, I'm not mad at them, just, like, nothing's free.
Right.
Well, yeah.
No, you don't want to sit around all day.
It's cool to learn a skill, but also, as a man, I want to feel like I'm contributing and providing something for whatever community I'm in.
Here at home, to be able to provide a nice house and a nice life for my wife and our kids.
My wife works insanely hard, a lot harder than I do at this point in my life, to be honest with you.
And she's amazing.
And so just to have that feeling that you are able to contribute and provide to the community, whatever it is you can, like if it's two flags a day and the best guy is making 12 flags a day, well, shit, I hope that I can be at six flags a day after a few weeks and I learn it and I hope that I can be at six flags a day after a few weeks and I learn it and then blow
And so then my thought would be, let's take this initiative and make sure every home in America has a god dang flag flying outside of it.
And if you don't want that, then I guess we know where you stand.
Right, right.
Yeah, and again, I'm just saying in my head, like camps, right?
Because it's like you...
I would assume they're wanting to be homeless for a certain way or a certain lifestyle.
And I... Envy that.
If that's your thing, so then, again, alright, so maybe we're not making flags at this camp, but we're living like the Mansons and growing our own food or something.
I don't know what the Mansons did, but we're in a commune and we're growing our own food, so then you're all farmers, and you're all at least supplying your own way of life at that point, you know?
Right.
Maybe without Charles Manson, but...
Well, hopefully.
Whatever, you know.
Folks, of course, as usual, I haven't been watching the clock, and we've run very short on time in the segment, so we're going to take a quick break.
Stick with us.
We'll be right back.
Hey folks, welcome back here to the second segment of the show.
Mike and I were discussing the assisted suicide route, some homelessness stuff as it pertains to veterans.
But as usual on the show, I really dislike bitching a whole lot about a problem without offering some kind of way, at least an idea of how to fix it or make it better or to address it.
And so we had touched Mike a little bit on Having some kind of mentorship or something for veterans who are in this situation to help them understand that this is not the last resort.
I'm curious...
How do you think that that conversation starts?
Let's just say for conversation's sake you and I decide to be mentors.
Whatever that looks like.
And we get to sit in front of the first person we're going to mentor and talk to them about their situation and offer them some assistance or help or advice or whatever.
How do you think that initial conversation looks like?
I think it comes in Two parts in my view.
I think it creates jobs.
I think that's a direct pull for veterans to go right in, you know, after giving up their service.
Or veterans who pull through and are like, man, this mentorship program changed me and now this is what I want to do.
And then I think there's volunteers.
That volunteer whatever time they have.
So for the career side of things, obviously, yeah, you get assigned to somebody and you're passionate about helping people and saving people or you're just, you know, getting to know people.
Because like I said, in my view, it comes with treatment.
It comes with being...
An ear and a true friend, not just a state representative, right?
I think it comes with, you know, some treatment, psychedelic treatment to really get to the bottom of what demons are bothering you, in my eyes.
For volunteers, man, that's just like volunteering for anything.
You just got to be a compassionate person that understands what...
In my eyes, it's not always about what the person has been through, but where do they want to be?
Because even somebody who's got a plan for suicide, they probably got dreams that they feel like they can't obtain or they fell short on or something.
And so it's finding that in a human being, in my eyes.
Not just focusing on what happened in the past and poor you and I'm sorry for all the shit you've been through.
Because guess what?
Yesterday doesn't matter.
I gotta tell you, bro.
I gotta tell ya.
You have some profound shit to say, man.
And things that I've never thought of.
And I think that this is something that could be very impactful to the community because there's just a...
I don't know, man.
You just know, right?
When you sit down across from somebody...
You just know whether or not you're going to click with them, first of all.
Second of all, the chances that folks like you and I and others who would volunteer or sign up for this gig, the chances that they haven't been through similar stuff, in my opinion, it would be pretty low.
So there's going to be a whole wealth of knowledge, dare I say, a network of other veterans that have gone through similar situations and can sit down across from you with a cup of coffee and just talk about, hey, man, well, you feel A, B, and a network of other veterans that have gone through similar situations Well, guess what?
I lived A and C. And so here are some things that we can do.
Talk about those dreams.
That's a really good point, Mike.
I think people that are in despair have given up because they don't feel like whatever it is that they have been trying to work towards or want to work towards is unattainable.
Yeah.
And we all know that that's not true.
You can attain and be anything you want to be if you're willing to put the work in.
100%.
Yeah, and you don't find it at the bottom of a bottle all the time.
I can say that we've looked a few times though.
Sometimes you might find some answers that cure you for a couple hours.
Yeah.
But eventually that person self-medicating is going to Feel like a failure for sure and likely be a failure if that's all they got.
And so it's a matter of...
I've come to a point in my life where time is the craziest thing in the world to me.
You can't control it.
You can't do anything about it.
It doesn't give a shit about you.
And it rolls.
And perspective.
And so it's a matter of sometimes...
Changing somebody's perspective just a little bit and then it's like the light bulb goes off and it's like, oh wow, yeah, this is a totally different view and I had the answers and that's a lot what psychedelics do for people is that answers are already there.
If you're seeking out answers, you already got them.
Psychedelics don't bring answers.
They just bring it to light and let you process it.
The information is already out there in the ether.
Interesting.
But you got to change somebody's perspective or show them a new perspective.
And that's what the mentorship program should be about.
Do you think that it would be advantageous for an organization like the VA to house such program?
Or should it be...
I hate to use the word non-profit because I feel like they all are just money-sucking...
I shouldn't say that, so to speak, because there's many non-profits that do a lot of good work.
But it's kind of like everything else, like being in basic training, one person F's it up for everybody else, and then now the stigma's there.
And so people, I think, especially in my experience, you know, nonprofits seeking out new banking institutions, for example, is a real tough thing because there's not a lot of trust there in the industry, in nonprofits in general, it seems to me.
And I'm sure, again, I'll get roasted in the comments for that, but Yeah, bring it on, baby.
Yeah, I'm not scared.
But I think that these are the types of things that if a place like the VA housed it and took it over as its baby, it'd be really easy for them to muck it up with government bullshit.
Yeah, because it's the same thing as fighting a war and being handcuffed at the same time.
You don't release infantry troops and Marines and say you only get nine bullets today and no AT-4s.
It's the same thing.
That's what would happen with the VA. So here's this bullshit-ass mentor who still isn't reaching you as a human being, and no, we can't do any other outside treatments other than, you know, Vicodin and FDA-approved drugs that are all backed by Bill Gates.
So they'd screw it up right away.
So you'd need...
Yeah, we need...
We gotta holler at Maynard James Keenan from Tool and get him to be the non-profit.
I think he'd be a good one to start.
Yeah, there you go.
Hey, and anybody...
Anybody that is willing to...
Based on just goodwill and initiative, be able to back something like that project, whoever it is would be good.
Let me ask you this.
Do you think that the general public, the general civilian public, understands why veterans decide to contemplate, make a plan, and then commit suicide?
Damn, that's a super good question for the wrong guy.
I don't...
I don't...
Oddly enough, I mean, I go...
I have a daughter in school, and I go to her sporting events, but I don't chum it up.
You know, I talk to some of the parents that I know, and But I've never been a part of the general public.
I work in the oil field in remote areas.
And I was a commercial diver before that and an infantry drum before that.
And I've never really been a part of a nine-to-five society.
So it's a really good question.
And I won't even speculate because I'm not the guy to ask.
Okay.
Well, you're the one I got on the show.
So let me give you a scenario and see if it's something that you just...
I think that would be understandable to the civilian population.
Let's just say for conversation's sake that we rewind time back to 2006 when you and I were together in Iraq.
Not together, but together.
Yeah, yeah, right.
Not together like Legos, just in the same space together at the same time.
But you and I and the rest of the team, we're doing a dismounted patrol through Baghdad.
And I guess what I've never really outlined on this show for people to know is that the platoon that you and I were a part of at that time was a very close group to a certain extent.
We trained together, we went to infantry school together, we deployed together, we fought together.
So we were a close-knit group of people, of guys.
So let's just say, for conversation's sake, we turn the corner down an alley.
You and I are stacked up next to each other.
And out of nowhere, you get shot in the face.
Right?
Or in the head, or in the chest, or whatever.
And you're laying there, dead.
The Army does a really good job at training us to see it, process it extremely quickly, and then compartmentalize it and put it away.
And why?
Because there's still a fight to fight.
And so the Army is very good at telling us, hey man, we'll deal with that later.
Yeah, we're not leaving them, but right now we'll move on.
Yeah, right now we've got to fight to fight.
And so you have to be able to imagine that these men that you're with, they're your brothers.
They're your best friends in many cases.
They're the people.
I put my life in your hands.
You put your life in mine.
And together we are responsible for one another.
And now we go and fight that fight.
And it's over.
And we go back to find you.
And...
Collectively, as a team, we put you in a bag.
We pick up whatever fragments of your skull or your eyes or whatever fell off your body and put that in the bag because I'll be damned if I'm going to send my brother home in pieces, incomplete.
Sure.
And we do all this and pull security while we wait for the medevac helicopter to come down and pick you up.
And when that happens, we pick you up as a team and we put you on this helicopter, never to visually lay eyes on you again, never to give you a hug, to shake your hand, to give you fist bumps, to tell you, hey brother, I love you.
None of that shit.
It's over.
But we can't deal with it right now.
We can't talk about it.
We can't feel.
We can't do anything about it.
Because there's still a fight to fight.
The Army tells us that the mission must be accomplished at any means necessary.
And in many instances, that means putting your brother on a helicopter never to see him again and he left you in pieces.
Yep.
And then, fast forward a couple days.
Alright, now we're back on the FOB, we're back at the base.
We have some down time to go to the gym, let out our frustrations, eat, handle yourself and do whatever it is you gotta do.
And then, so then that's the time that you start to think about what really happened and you start to process it and deal with it any way that you know how within your disposal.
But also, now, tomorrow we're going to do it again.
So I can't really...
You're not going to dive into it.
I don't think anyone dives into it.
I can't process it.
Because tomorrow we've got to do it again.
And what happens if Matt Bland is dead tomorrow?
And we've got to do it again.
Or I'm dead.
And they've got to do it to me.
And so later becomes, okay, well we'll deal with it later.
And that later becomes the next later.
Because there's always a mission to complete.
And after so long...
This is what life is.
Even when you're home and you're soldiering every day, there's still a mission.
There's not time.
We can't deal with that right now.
We gotta deal with it later.
So put it in your backpack.
Yeah, and it stays there because I don't know how many of the send-offs you went to.
I only went When we put Sergeant Cook on the plane, that was it for me.
So I'm like, oof, that's heavy.
I can't do that.
And I don't need that in my life right now.
You know, send off.
I went because I really liked him.
I just got done.
I think I just left them two weeks before he got killed because I was showing them, I think, the Fallujah run.
And so I went to his because he was a super cool guy.
We were pretty tight there.
And then I couldn't do it anymore.
So yeah, I just was like, man, you can't...
I don't have time for it.
And then, yeah, so that's how you learn to deal with the rest of your life.
Right, right.
And so...
But then that's not it, Mike.
That's not it.
That's just one day.
It could happen every day.
It could happen multiple times a week.
It could happen to you just once.
But the point is that after all of that, after being, from the conception of your military career, you were taught this one thing.
Mission first, we're mission focused, we're this mission, mission, mission, mission.
Which I understand, I get it, and I agree with it.
Because if it wasn't for that mentality, we wouldn't be in the position that we're in.
But now you get home, right?
Now you come home and you realize that everything in your life kept moving while it stopped for you because you were off fighting a war.
And now you have to deal with, how do I go back to work?
How do I relate to my kids?
How do I talk to my wife?
How do I just function like I used to?
And then come to the realization that it's not possible.
You will never be the same man that you were before you put on that uniform.
And for many of us, that's okay.
We agree with it, we accept it, and we roll with it.
But then things crumble, and that's it.
Now it's time to just go get a goddamn pill and end it.
Or put a gun to my head, or jump off a bridge, whatever that looks like.
And so, when I go around the block to go across the street back to the question, and that's just a very quick what if, but it's very real.
And so, I find it hard to believe that the general public can even imagine what that's like to a certain extent.
Yeah, you're right.
I got perspective on it.
I see what you're saying.
No, not in that sense, right?
The general public has their own stressors and their own problems.
And in the end, it's different, but it's the same.
You're there for the same reason.
You're depressed.
You don't know how to cope.
You don't know how to talk to your spouse, your family.
You had a hard childhood.
You got knocked on your ass a few times.
It's all the same in the end.
With a different treatment in mind, I feel like.
Yeah, well, I mean...
What do the Russians do?
You said the Canadians have been doing this.
What do the Russians do?
They seem like they cope with stuff.
Is it just vodka?
It must be.
Vodka, I don't know.
Maybe they do a lot of drugs.
Maybe they exercise a lot and they're just super stress-free because they're working out all the time.
Who knows?
They fight a lot.
I've tried vodka before and that helped a little bit, but not much for long.
That didn't do it for me.
I don't know.
Maybe we need to street fight more and get more highway access.
I don't know.
Get dash cams.
I'm not sure.
I don't know if they got it figured out, but I feel like we get softer as a nation and they remain hard as nails, but...
Yeah, well, and you can see that for sure just in, I mean, what was the thing, was it last year or the year before with the recruitment videos where we had trannies on ours and they got these badass dudes looking like Dolph Lundgren.
Vladimir's wrestling tigers shirtless and on kibo.
And our military is paying for men to have their wieners chopped off and come back to formation as a woman.
Right, and they probably got stress dolls that they squeeze and talk naughty to and swear at and stuff.
Holy...
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.
Well, I'll tell you what, folks.
If you weren't fired up, this is a good opportunity to get that way because just the idea of all this stuff that has now become reality...
It's extremely maddening.
And sometimes it seems simple, Mike.
Like, the answer seems simple.
It just takes hard work, but yet it's simple.
It's simple.
It's just the process needs to be changed, yeah.
But the answer is simple, I think.
Well, I mean, I don't know, man.
I don't know that we're here on the Richard Leonard Show going to solve all the world's problems.
Jesus is opening up to us.
Well, you never know, man.
It might get there.
Who knows what the hell is going to happen.
We'll leave it to Biden.
But there certainly is the opportunity...
Here for bigger things.
And, of course, I'm sure somebody's going to say, well, why don't you start it?
Why don't you start it?
Why don't you figure out how to fund it?
That's great.
That's why we're here.
So reach out.
Let us know because we need help, right?
I'm all about it.
I'm not the guy to sit here.
I hope this doesn't come off as a bitch session because neither one of us are for that.
That's what it's for, those to bring light.
If people have good solutions, hit us up.
I'm all about it.
Yeah, and I've said it many times before.
I don't say it every week, I'm sure, but feel free to hit us up.
You can see, you can comment on the video.
You can reach me on Twitter.
I have a gab, although I'm not sure if I remember the password.
There are ways for you to contact us.
And so if you have ideas, or if you have questions, or you have comments, leave them.
Leave them down below there.
And I'm all for starting a dialogue with somebody that knows more than me.
I'm okay with that.
That's what this is all about.
This platform and any other platform that I may be on is all about helping each other, helping the common man, but more importantly, helping my brothers and sisters to be able to live a better life if at all possible.
And I would be very surprised if it was not possible because I believe that it is very possible, but we have to be willing to have the tough conversations Do the work and put it out there, which is why I chose, this is my way of starting the conversation, of hopefully giving back because, you know, there's a lot of content creators out there.
There's a lot of platforms and I'm not here to down talk anybody, but I know what's important to me.
I know what's important to you, Mike, because we've talked about it.
I know what's important to Jason, and I know what's important to my family.
And being able to have a base of understanding with a population like the veteran population is super important for that purpose.
But also, I don't know if you saw last week's show, Mike, but Did you understand and know that we are now a population of people in this country that have enough voting power to sway an election?
If it's true and accurate and elections are real, there are enough veterans in this country now To be able to sway an election.
How many elections are won by 2% or 100,000 votes?
We as a community of people are, what was the number?
It was like 8% or 7% or something like that of all the voting age adults that are citizens in this country.
Which means we have the ability to sway an election and that gives us the, I don't know if I say the right, but that makes us available to be heard.
Sure, that's awesome.
So, with that said, We have to also do things like this to ensure that veterans of older generations or those of us in our generation that are just so pissed off at the system that they decide they're not going to do anything.
Well, now things are a little bit different.
And so if we take it upon ourselves to stand up, talk, shout from the rooftops if we have to, and be heard, I believe that things for veterans in this country can be better.
And this is a way to start doing that.
100%.
Yep.
Yeah.
This is our way of doing it.
So the feedback is how we actually get it done, right?
This is our first step to do something about it.
And so the second, third, all the really hard steps You know, this was difficult for us, but then it takes just one person to help us, and somebody with some backing somewhere else, and that's how shit gets done.
Right.
And not that it was hard work, it continues to be hard work.
Yeah, it's the grind.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
I'm going to tell you what, navigating life in today's society is...
It seems pretty cumbersome.
And for many people in our community, it is extremely cumbersome and maybe even More than we care to talk about or realize or whatever.
So having this type of outlet, this type of platform is something that's extremely valuable to our community.
And I'll say it again, bro.
Anybody that wants to contribute to this show or to anything else that we have going on, It's open.
I am not going to tell nobody they can't contribute to this movement, if we want to call it that.
But it has to be constructive.
I mean, there's some metrics there.
But anyway, that's a whole other conversation.
We got about two minutes left, Mike.
I want to give you one of those to just...
Give us your final thoughts on today's conversation, on the topic, whatever it is that you want us to know.
You got one minute.
Go ahead and let her rip.
Yeah, it was cool because, like I said, it wasn't on my radar at all.
It's not something that I didn't privy to or really put much thought into.
But an amazing topic for this platform, because I think, obviously, we both just said it, but I'd like everyone to know, like, the reason we're doing this is, for one, it took us a long ways to get here, but there's going to be other topics where I don't just...
I'm going to be almost begging for people to comment and write in on their expertise, lawyers in particular, with a few topics that I know we're going to touch here in the next couple months.
So yeah, we're looking for feedback and comments, so bring it on.
But yeah, this is a super interesting topic and it kind of reaches out into several other that we're going to be talking about soon.
Yeah.
We'll see where it goes.
Right on, man.
So to round out the show today, I like to be able to try to come as full circle as possible.
The idea that a veteran could possibly walk into a doctor and ask for a pill to end their life is a new level that I never thought we would be to.
I never thought that we would get here.
Not just for veterans, but for anybody.
And so I think that those conversations, many of them need to be had with many different communities in this country before we make it that readily available.
Because as I said, if somebody wants to do it, they're going to find a way you're not going to stop them, no matter how hard you try and how much you want it to be different.
But I think where we fall short in the veteran community, once again, is that we don't have a network of people to put in front of folks that are struggling.
It's already a severe battle to know, right?
To be able to sense that something's wrong and then get that person to open up to you.
To even have this conversation.
That's why this conversation is super important because we're going from a place where, well, I never knew.
I never knew Richard was suicidal.
I can't believe it.
I never saw the signs.
I don't get it.
I don't understand.
We're going from that to, hey, you can just go to the doctor and get the pill if you want to.
And nothing in between.
And so I implore you as an audience to give that some thought and just let that wrap itself around your mind and then render an opinion on it.
Everyone has a stance.
What's that?
Are we still going to call it the pill?
Because that brings a whole new mean to it, but it's the same.
It's still the same pill, kind of, right?
Who knows what they're going to call it.
I'm sure it'll have some fluffy, cute names so that it doesn't make people think about death that don't know what it is.
We still call it the pill.
That's kind of ironic.
Anyway, we've run out of time, folks.
We could go on for another hour, I'm sure.
We'll see you next week.
Please take care of yourselves.
Be good to each other, for Pete's sake.
We don't want no pill having while we're gone.
Good night.
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