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April 8, 2023 - Stew Peters Show
01:04:37
JESUS. GUNS. AND BABIES. w/ Dr. Kandiss Taylor ft. ALEXANDER PAGANI!!!
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Well, I got saved in 1992 while serving nine years in prison.
Jesus Christ came in my cell and told me to follow Him.
So I had a supernatural born-again experience. - Hey everybody, welcome to Jesus, Guns & Babies.
I'm your host, Dr.
Candace Taylor, and I have a super awesome guest today.
You are going to be in for a huge blessing.
I'm going to start with a scripture like we always do, and I chose Galatians 5.1 for today.
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.
Stand firm then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by yoke of slavery.
So, if you're burdened again, does that mean that you could be set free and then get burdened again?
And then you need to be set free again?
I don't know.
Those are things we're going to talk about today, though.
So, remember that.
Hold that right there in your mind.
I am so excited to welcome, this is my new friend that I met in Tennessee a couple weeks ago.
And I cannot wait to actually get to spend one-on-one time with him next time I meet him in person.
But his name is Pastor Alexander Pagani.
So, welcome Pastor Alex to Jesus Guns and Babies.
Amen.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me on.
I'm excited to be here.
And I guess I'm new to your viewers.
So hello and blessings, everyone.
And I look forward to a long relationship of online ministry together from here forward.
Yes.
So my name and my show came from me running for governor.
And the Lord just told me, you know, I believe in everything you believe in.
I believe in Jesus, guns, and babies.
I was on a short little time to get out what I wanted to say.
And those are the three things that I feel like keeps us free in America.
So we have to celebrate life.
We have to focus on Jesus.
He is why we have America.
Today is going to be my Jesus show.
Sometimes I have people talking about guns and sometimes we talk about other things, but today is Jesus.
This is one of my favorite things to talk about in the whole world.
I know it's yours too.
I want you to tell everybody who you are.
You're a pastor and you're in, I think, New York.
New York City, the Bronx.
Yes, I have family that live in Bronxville.
Okay, that's not too far from us.
That's about 10 minutes away, but that's still considered the Bronx.
So they're New Yorkers.
Yes.
And so my husband, I love to visit.
We haven't visited since COVID, but I would love to bring the family and come to your church because I know your church is amazing.
But tell us a little bit about yourself and where you grew up and why you're a patriot and why you're a Christian.
I mean, just give us a little bit about you.
Well, I got saved in 1992 while serving nine years in prison.
Jesus Christ came in my cell and told me to follow Him.
So I had a supernatural born-again experience, hence is the reason why I have all of this passion and zeal and love for the Lord.
I haven't lost it in 30 years, so I've been saved.
For 30 years, got called to the ministry in 1995, got called to the pastorate while in prison.
But in prison, I got introduced to the deliverance ministry, and I guess we'll talk about that a little bit later.
Ended up getting called to the pastorate in prison.
Was released in 1998.
Met a pastor's daughter while I was preaching at her dad's church and radio station.
Long story short, I fell in love with the church girl.
I'm the street guy that fell in love with the church girl.
And I'd say this, the church girl fell in love with the street guy, got born again, or rather got called into the ministry both together, have two beautiful children together.
I'm presently a grandfather of two beautiful baby granddaughters, so I believe in babies.
There's a lot of babies.
There's babies in this house.
I believe in preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, Christ crucified, death, burial, and resurrection, and defending that.
Not only that, but I always say this, and many of your viewers probably would understand my sentiments in this, is that martyrdom is a privilege for us.
Martyrdom is a privilege, which means that not only are we ready to live for Christ, but we're also ready to die for this thing.
Which means we're ready to defend this thing all the way up until, even if it leads onto the grave, to make sure that we perpetuate this gospel.
You know, so for the last 19 years, been serving as lead pastor.
I have to laugh because you said the word amazing.
I want to visit your church.
It probably is amazing.
Actually, that's the name of our church.
The name of our church is called Amazing Church.
Wow, I love that.
I didn't know that.
Yes, the Yuba Church is an amazing church, and we have had the privilege of, right now we are overseeing 11 amazing churches all over the country, all over the country in various states.
We have an amazing church in Hiawassee, Georgia.
Amazing church in Kissimmee, Florida, even Alaska, Michigan, Connecticut, all the way in California.
And all of us basically have the same primary focus, and that's to perpetuate the gospel of Jesus Christ.
We're all in love with ministry.
We all love serving God's people.
We all also love apologetics, and we love defending the faith.
So that's kind of like where we stand.
In a nutshell, I mean, we have a whole hour to kind of flesh this out and just kind of talk about the bits and pieces.
I immensely love the Lord with all of my heart, soul, and strength, and I can't wait for His eminent return, so I'm excited.
We're like the same people.
I love apologetics.
Everything you're saying, you're speaking my language.
I was a Baptist girl.
I grew up Baptist, but I got filled with the Holy Spirit when I was 28.
After one of my dear friends, her son died in a car wreck, and I really blamed God.
And everybody was saying, God's in control.
And he picks beautiful flowers for his garden.
And I'm like, this is sick and twisted.
And maybe I got saved at eight.
But you know what?
If God's in control and he allows this.
And then I was a school counselor and had seen a lot of horrific rapes and sexual abuse.
And it started making me question everything.
If God's in control, why does he allow this?
And God sent a lady that...
He told her to come to my house and tell me John 10, 10.
And she came and she's like, I don't know why I'm telling you this, but John 10, 10.
I said, I don't know what that is.
And she said, the enemy comes to steal, kill, and destroy.
And Jesus comes to bring life and life more abundantly.
And it was like the word of God that just washes over you and you just get set free instantaneously.
And I'm like, oh...
God's not in control of killing people.
He's not schizophrenic.
He doesn't do what the enemy does.
He came to give life.
And so I'm set free.
She prayed with me that day to be filled with the Holy Spirit, and my whole life's changed.
Wow.
So the relationship with the Lord changed.
And so anyway, you're speaking my language.
So can you tell us why?
Because people's going to want to know.
So can you tell us what happened that led you to be incarcerated?
Well, I got locked up for burglary in the first degree, robbery in the second degree, robbery and kidnapping in the first degree.
I was facing 21 years in prison at the time.
I believe I was 17 years old.
But here's the story, was that I spent all of my youth in prison.
So I was in juvenile jail, and then I ended up in an adult prison.
So from the ages of like 14 all the way to about maybe 22 or 23 is when I was released in prison.
So I spent most of my youth in prison with only a very brief, small moment when I was released.
I was living that street lifestyle in the Bronx.
I was listening to your story just now of how ultimately you had that experience.
Mine was actually the opposite.
When Christ came to me, when I was in Downstate Correctional Facility in Upstate New York, I became immensely aware that I was a sinner, that I was in desperate need of salvation, and that I was on my way to hell.
So I remember completely, I think I was 17 years old when I accepted Christ as Savior in the prison, I just became aware that Man, I'm on my way to hell and I really need to repent of my sin and forsake this sinful lifestyle.
And I did.
And I did it.
And Jesus, you know, came inside of me and I had this supernatural encounter that Titus talks about, the washing of regeneration.
And instantly, the cigarettes, the pornography, the foul language, everything gone.
Just from that time, 1992, all the way up until today, I've just been...
Just on this mission and initially from that first experience, kind of like the Apostle Paul when he had that first encounter and it just drove the rest of his life.
So, yeah, so that's kind of like how it started for me was, you know, live the street lifestyle, ended up in prison.
And here's what's crazy is that my grandmother is a praying Pentecostal woman.
You know, the mothers of the church, any praying grandmother is the most dangerous person to the kingdom of darkness.
And she used to tell me when I used to come home high or come home from, you know, street life, selling drugs and doing all of that stuff.
And she looked at me and said, you know, one day you're going to serve the Lord.
And I used to be like, come on, grandma, I want to hear none of that church stuff.
I don't want to hear that stuff.
And I asked Christ to be Savior.
Long story short, before she went home to be with the Lord, two years before she went home to be with the Lord, she ended up becoming a member of my church, and I was my grandmother's pastor for the last two years of her Christian life, spirit-filled believer life, until she went home to be with the Lord.
So if you're a praying Anybody praying mama, praying brother, praying grandmama, you keep praying for your unsaved loved ones, for the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man or woman availeth much.
I am here as a result.
And here's what's funny is that my grandmother used to always tell me this before she went on with the Lord.
She'd be like, You're here because of mine.
You see these knees of mine?
She's like, you're here because of my knees, praying for you.
But I'm excited.
And she always tell me, stay humble.
You're going to do great in the Lord.
So you bless my heart.
And she went on to be with the Lord.
So I would encourage every person that's watching me, continue to intercede for your unsaved family members.
They'll come to Christ the easy way or the hard way.
Mine was the hard way, but I came to Christ.
You know, Pastor Alex, it's interesting how we're so different, but then God can get you passionate the same way.
And I was actually thinking about, I'm a little jealous of how the passion just came for you instantaneously.
But then I knew a lot of head knowledge and scripture and A lot of things.
But sometimes I think the church, we can get bogged down in that where we don't have passion and zeal.
And so when the Holy Spirit became alive for me, when I would read my Bible, I had done devotions all my life, but when I read the Bible after I was filled with the Holy Spirit, it just became alive.
I mean, it made sense.
Instantly just made sense.
And I was seeing things that I had read a thousand times, but it was different.
It hit me different.
And I was able to apply it in ways that my faith was different.
And golly, I grow every day.
I definitely don't have it all figured out.
But it's so important and necessary.
And I think there was even probably an element before where I felt I love the Lord and we had a relationship.
But I couldn't hear His voice clearly.
I couldn't feel Him.
And then maybe even embarrassed sometimes in certain groups, you're trying to be at the upper echelon, or you're trying to click at work, or you're trying to do, and you've kind of like, I don't want them to be, I don't want to think I'm a Jesus girl, and like I'm a Jesus freak, or whatever.
And after I was sealed with the Holy Spirit, I don't care.
Who knows?
I love the Lord, and I want to talk about Him all the time, and I want to offend me is when you do something against Him, and you are a fake Christian, you pretend and play a game with His name, and then I'm ready to cut you, right?
Right.
Well, we're the same way in the Bronx.
In New York City, we're the same way.
I have Peter Christians here as well that love the Lord, but be ready to cut you in a heartbeat.
But they genuinely love the Lord.
So me and my wife always have to calm down our Peters.
But you know what I've learned?
Every church, Peters are necessary.
And I would even say this.
In this day and age of what's prevalent and going on in our government and society and council culture and all of that that's happening, we need more Peters.
We need more Peters to just rise up, not be scared, and just do what they need to do, and then ask God to forgive us later.
Like, Father, forgive me.
You should have helped me with that.
It's the same way.
It's the same way.
I hear your story, and it's the prevalent issue that everybody that I encounter with that grew up in church.
My wife grew up in church, so she knows exactly what you're talking about.
You know, my kids, I grew up in the street, but my kids grew up in church, because they were born in the gospel.
So I'm sure that, you know, when I, through the years, I see the lack of passion, maybe, you know, the ritual thing of going to church, my house, my family's religion, or whatever.
But the time came where they would have the encounter.
I would say that the reason why that happens to many of you viewers and those of you that are watching is I would say it's religion that causes that.
You know, religion loves to silence and kill zeal and passion.
Religion is a killer of passion.
It's great in the sense of giving us principles and rules to live by, but it is also because religion is so preventative and so precautious that it ends up breeding fear.
We're just so fearful because we get nervous.
Lord, is that you?
Lord, is that you?
So we never end up doing anything because we're so afraid.
What if it's not God?
And I always tell people, what if it is God?
What if it is God?
But on the opposite end, We have our issues too, you know what I'm saying?
Those of us that are extremely passionate, our stuff is, sometimes we could went and not be sent.
You know, we could be extremely thinking it's the Holy Spirit and it's nothing more than emotionalism.
We could think that it's really discernment and it's just passion and zeal.
So sometimes, you know, even on our end, we have to be consistently praying, Lord, if this is not you, you better stop me because I already went, you know what I'm saying?
So it's the same for both sides.
So we don't want any of your viewers to think like, man, I wish I need to have the experience that he had to get this passion that I have.
No, you know, because on our end, we struggle with the same things.
It's just we struggle with extremism, fanaticism, you know, emotionalism, and sometimes it might not necessarily be Be the Holy Spirit.
It could just be the person's zeal and desire to just try to do something for God rather than God doing something through them and they're being sent and not went.
That's a good word.
And I want to talk about, I want to talk about this movie and I want to talk about your book.
So I'm a writer.
I have, I'm writing like three books right now.
I've not finished my first book, but I have a PhD.
So I've written a dissertation, which is kind of like a book and it's on suicide.
So I'm real passionate about saving lives and the demonic spirit of suicide that we see on our youth and this transgenderism push and all of those things.
And so deliverance ministry, when I got filled with the Holy Spirit, was something that I knew from being a school counselor and seeing families really hurting and generational curses.
I knew.
I knew.
And my spiritual gifts discernment.
So that was kind of, you know, a natural thing for me.
And that's why I'm a good counselor because it's like a natural vein to get in career-wise.
But I want to talk about...
It came out in Jesus' name, which is a phenomenal movie.
Everyone has to see it.
They have to see it.
They have to understand.
And I've watched it one time because I saw it at the premiere, but I want to watch it ten times because I need to take notes this time.
The second time is better.
I wept the second.
The first time I watched it as a content creator because we have an online ministry.
So I'm looking at all of the knickknacks.
But the second time that I watched it, I boohooed in the theater because I actually watched it as someone else that's watching it rather than Well, let me see what they put.
They put me in the movie.
Let me see if they put the right edits in the movie.
This time I was like, oh my God, what an amazing experience.
I want to encourage those of you that are watching, if you haven't seen it, you need to go see it.
And Pastor Greg Locke, who's my dear friend, and I know he's your dear friend too, you know, he just really, he said he'd watch it 20 times and he said it's so good.
And I'm like, okay, if you've watched it 20 times, it's really good because he's not going to...
I got the video clips of some clips that I caught and I watch it like 50 times a day and I weep every time that I watch it.
Because y'all are so busy.
So for you to sit there and watch it, it's that powerful.
It's very powerful.
But talk to us about, you obviously have a lot of spiritual gifts, and I'm not sure what office you're in.
If you're in an evangelist or a apostle or a prophet, I'm not sure what office you're in.
But talk about that and about how I know that you're this author that had this book that really signified the movement of the movie because it signified the movement of the Spirit in Pastor Grace Church.
So will you just talk about that a little bit?
For those of you that are watching, this is the book that she's referring to.
It's called The Secrets to Deliverance.
It's released by Charisma House Publishers.
By God's Grace is a six-time number one best-selling book on the topic of deliverance.
And because of the movie, I might as well share the great news.
It is number 30 on Amazon's top 100 books in every category and number 1 in all Christian categories.
That's absolutely astounding and amazing that a simple book like this.
Let me say this.
I didn't start off in deliverance.
I started off as a pastor against deliverance.
See, that's the part that was not put in the movie, and it'll probably be saved for maybe a part two or a prequel to the movie.
My theological upbringing as a, well, Pentecostal, charismatic believer, graduate of biblical ceremony, did not adhere to that a Christian could have a demon.
Yet, I was demonized as a pastor.
I had a successful, thriving, growing church in the Bronx, yet I was demonized.
I emotionally abused my wife in the sense of anger.
My children were terrified of me, but when I went to church, I was praying in tongues and I was doing the church stuff.
I was pastoring during the time of the advent of the internet.
So when I first started, I've been 19 years serving as lead pastor.
So when I first started as a pastor, there was no such thing as internet.
There was nothing.
It was just, you know, it was old school church.
You know, it was interaction.
It was a lot more interaction and fellowshipping and visiting new churches and, you know, just a good Christian community.
So when the internet came, the dynamic of the spiritual climate of the church changed.
Most of the men in the church, because now, during my era, I'm 48, I'm about to be 49 in a couple of months.
To watch pornography, you had to go to a store that sold pornography.
Now, pornography was being given to men on their phones.
For free.
For free, for free.
That was astounding, you know?
So our church, all of the men, like, got addicted, and then I had a brief sprint, you know, battle with that while I'm helping them get set free.
So as any good pastor, when your men are one day in church clapping their hands and then, like, After service, you have to go bail somebody out of jail or you're running to someone's house because he's beating his wife or something and they're arguing over porn.
I said, Lord, what am I doing wrong?
So I did what any good Pentecostal pastor would do.
I made the church pray more and fast more.
We just need to pray more and fast more.
That made it worse.
Actually, that made it worse because now we're seeking God more and now we're riling up all the demons that are in there.
So one day, I just said, Lord, What's the answer to this?
I don't know what else to do.
I don't know what else to do.
And he said, deliverance.
And I remember telling God no.
How do we tell God no?
I'm asking for an answer, and he tells me the answer.
And I tell him, because I felt like Peter on the roof, eat.
And he said, Lord, nothing unclean has come on my list.
Like, this is me talking to God, saying, it's impossible.
A Christian can't have a demon.
So I'm demonized telling God that a Christian can't be demonized.
So, long story short was this.
I love the power of desperation.
When you are desperate, something happens to the rigidity of your theology, which means you become a little bit more flexible because you ain't got nothing to lose.
So I said, Lord, we're all bound here.
I don't believe a Christian can have a demon, but I think you're telling me deliverance.
And I said, Lord, if this is you, you're just going to have to show it to me because in my brain, this is heresy.
I said, OK, Lord, I'm going to experiment with this thing.
So I did a Bible study on a Tuesday night and talked about that a Christian could potentially be maybe demonized.
And when I said that, the whole church got up and they were at the altar and we had the craziest outbreak.
Of mass deliverance that I was not prepared for.
In my mind, all I was saying was, Lord, I hope this is you.
Lord, I hope this is you.
Lord, I hope this is you.
Okay, the service finished.
I go home, and I'm like...
Okay, Lord.
Whatever.
Whatever, Lord.
I just know that as a pastor, I'm not going to stand before you and give an account of all the people that I left bound.
That's just not going to be me.
All right.
Three o'clock in the morning, I hear this noise in the living room of my home.
I go to the living room, and I see a candle get thrown across the room, and there's nobody there.
There's nobody there.
And the first initial thought that came in my brain, it wasn't an audible voice, but it was enough that I understood was, and it was this.
Don't open a can of worms that you cannot handle.
Don't come in this world if you're not ready to go all the way.
And I knew it was a threat of the devil.
But because I'm from the Bronx, My initial reaction was, what?
I was scared, but I didn't want to show the demon that I was scared, or whatever it was that was in my house that was scared.
So, in my head, I just said, in the name of Jesus, get out of my house!
And something like, the curtain moved, and I guess it left through the window.
The curtain just moved.
And I knew at that moment, That I needed to begin to explore this topic of deliverance, but here was my prayer.
I said, God, I don't want the emotionalism aspect of it.
I don't want the sensationalism of it.
I said, you need to show this to me doctrinally.
I'm a pastor.
I'm not going to be able to convince my people that I've taught them doctrinally to now just come with some experience because I myself preach against that experience should not call someone above Scripture.
It has to be Scripture validating the experience.
So I said, Lord, you have to show it to me.
You're going to have to show me this thing.
So the Lord called me on a 40-day fast, on a three-day fast that ended up becoming a 40-day fast.
And during that season, he started giving me the downloads to this book, but I didn't know it was going to be a book.
This was sermons for my church.
This was all sermon for me to teach to my church.
And, you know, every pastor that's watching me, you know, we all have a, you know, our preacher's manual where we put messages and we just store it away that we always use to preach, you know?
That's where it came from.
So next thing you know, we're sitting here doing deliverance on everybody.
So I went through deliverance, my wife went through deliverance, and I made all our leadership.
I forced the leadership.
I said, if I got delivered, all of you going to get delivered if you're going to be in leadership of this house.
I did that whole, I'm the pastor and you're going to do what I say in this moment.
I'm not going to vote this in.
No voting.
Deliverance for everybody.
So we took the leadership through the church.
And this is what happened.
I said, okay guys, end it.
That's it.
We got free.
Don't tell nobody.
Like the lame man in the scripture when Jesus said, don't tell nobody, they went and they told everybody.
So then all of their friends started showing up to the church saying, hey, I heard your pastor said, do you do deliverance?
And I said, who told you this?
Oh, one of your leaders.
She's my co-worker.
She told me...
So, that's how it started for us.
Fast forwarding, we became the first, one of the first online ministries.
This was in 2011, in MySpace days.
This was when MySpace and the internet first started.
We started promoting deliverance videos online, and obviously we went through all of the antagonizers and the hecklers, but I pushed through.
I pushed through.
Charisma House heard about that we were doing I ended up doing an interview on TBN and the Word Network on deliverance and they saw the interview and they said we would like for you to write a book on deliverance and when I said yes okay I'll write the book when I went home I said Lord what am I going to talk about the Holy Spirit said you remember What I gave you doing your 40 days of fasting, you're going to give them that.
And that's how it started for us.
I gave them this manual.
Well, the revelations in this book, and it became a bestseller on pre-order, and it was the catalyst that caused Greg Locke to solidify his fundamental belief in deliverance that started this movement.
You know what God just reminded me of?
And I just ordered the book.
So everybody go on Amazon and order the book.
I just ordered it.
I, or wherever you order books, they don't have to be on Amazon, I'm not promoting Amazon, but whatever.
I just thought about Twilight, because when Pastor Gray was on here, the Holy Spirit convicted me about Twilight, and so I burned all the books, I got everything out of my house.
I remember a Harry Potter girl, I don't like that, but got all that out.
But the Holy Spirit just reminded me of Stephanie Meyer who wrote that book and she had a dream about the scene where they were in this field and they started sparkling because his vampirism looked different than other ones, right?
Right.
So she wrote the book from that scene on and then she came back and got the beginning.
And he was waking her up at night and she was having dreams and writing the book.
And at the time, I didn't think about it being Satan giving it to her.
But now I think, of course, it was coming like that creativity because it was from the darkness.
It wasn't from Jesus.
But isn't it amazing how the Holy Spirit can give you something like that, download it to you?
Of course he can.
He's the creator.
It's awesome, and the Holy Spirit was just reminding me that, see, what happened to her happened better for Him, because I gave it to Him.
And it's setting people free every single day.
And I was also thinking, you know, when I got to learn about deliverance, my first thought was, Well, maybe they're not really saved and they think they're saved because they're demonized and they think they said they believe in Jesus, but they really aren't saved yet.
So that's how they have demons.
You try to justify it in your mind because it's so against what you've been taught and what you believe.
Like, how can the Holy Spirit be in here and a demonic presence?
But I've been watching since the movie came out and different interviews and different people who are going live on their social media and they're making comments and they're saying things and I haven't gotten in a battle yet.
I've just been reading and watching and absorbing it and watching how you respond.
But that's why I chose the scripture for today.
I asked the Lord what scripture and he gave me that one because it's so specific about You may have to go back and clean again.
It's specific and all the scriptures there.
So I want you to take us through that because that's what you asked the Lord to show you.
He started showing you doctrinally.
So I know it's a million things, but just give it down and dirty for everybody.
How doctrinally is sound.
Okay, I'm gonna start off with a parable, and then we'll get into one revelation that I think would be good in the epistles that can verify that a Christian, a born-again, spiritual believer, can have a demon operating in their life, and they need deliverance, and then sometimes they might need subsequent continual deliverance, which means multiple sessions, to actually get fully set free.
Okay, so for those of you that are still wrestling with this doctrinally, alright?
First of all, deliverance is not a power encounter.
It's a truth encounter.
You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
Second thing is deliverance is not a religious experience.
It's a legal exchange.
If you find the right law, LAW, the curse and Satan, Has to release you.
But I think where the struggle that all of you that are watching, and maybe those of you that are still on the fence about deliverance, is I think the war that we are having is a war of etymology.
The word etymology means the origin of words.
I think the battle that we're having is locked in a homonym.
The word hominem means the same word but different meanings.
So when a Christian hears the word possess, they think owned by.
But in the Ministry of Deliverance, when we say possessed, even though we don't use that word, but when you think of the word possessed, we don't mean owned by, we mean as in having.
So it's different.
You have possessed.
It's the same word, possessed.
Owned by.
You're possessed.
And then...
I possess a car.
I possess a pen.
I'm not pen-possessed.
See what I'm saying?
So I think that's kind of like, so when they hear can a Christian have a demon, they think possession.
Let me emphatically say here that a Christian cannot be demon-possessed.
That's impossible.
Why?
Because we're bought with the price, we're sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, we have the earnest expectation right here.
But what is continuously being delivered and sanctified is our soul.
And our mind has to be continuously renewed.
Renewed means regenerated over and over and over and over again.
Now, without getting too theologically...
I really would encourage you to go get the book.
But here's one verse.
Because if I give you...
Peter, you'll say, that's before the cross.
If I give you, for some of you that are theologians, if I tell you the book of Acts, you'll say, well, the book of Acts was descriptive, not prescriptive.
Some of us, we're all Pauline.
We're Pauline in our minds.
So let's look at the epistles.
Watch this.
I'm gonna show you something.
This is gonna absolutely really bless you, and I want you to go look it up.
First Corinthians chapter five talks about when Paul tells the church to hand a person over to Satan.
He says, hand such a wand over to Satan, and the verse says, for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit will be saved.
Wait a second here.
Like, wait a second.
Wait a second.
I'm sorry I'm getting excited because I'm a preacher.
All right?
So, look at this.
Look at this.
Okay.
First of all, this is Pauline.
This is Pauline theology because it's coming out of 1 Corinthians chapter 5.
He says, hand the one over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh so that his spirit can be saved.
That means that this person was not an unbeliever.
They were a believer whose spirit was always saved.
This spirit was always saved.
But because of disobedience and inability to fully walk out the level of holiness that was required for church policy, they were required to excommunicate and hand this believer over to Satan for the destruction of his what?
Not his spirit, but the destruction of his what?
His body.
But the text says, But his spirit will remain saved.
So that means we don't know how long that process is, but what we do know is that this is a saved believer.
Given over to Satan, or AKA a Christian having a demon.
Now here's what's crazy.
If you go to 2 Corinthians, this story comes back up.
This is the story of the man excommunicated.
Now watch this.
Paul tells the Corinthians, He got delivered!
Receive him back into the church, lets he get overwhelmed with sorrow and backslide and then get really lost.
So what is this letting us know?
In the Pauline epistles, it's hidden right there, is that yes, a Christian If they fail to not keep the doors closed in their life and obey Ephesians chapter 4 verse 20, and they give place to the devil, the devil will come in.
They will not be demon possessed, but they will be a Christian that possesses a demon in an area that is unsubmitted to the Holy Spirit.
Now watch this.
And if you refuse to get delivered, The convicting power of the Holy Spirit will back off and allow that carnal Christian to be handed over to Satan.
So this is when you get believers having all types of trials and tribulations.
It's not because God doesn't love you.
It's because he's trying to get you to the point so that you can get deliverance.
And when you get deliverance, You get restored, and then you're back in your rightful place in church community, not in salvation.
You're always saved.
You're always saved.
But it's a flesh issue.
It's a soul issue.
And when you get delivered, that gets resolved.
And now you're back in full fellowship with the Lord and the Holy Spirit and in the context of the Christian community, and you're growing in your Christian faith.
So without getting too theological, I think that that 1 Corinthians 5 is probably the single-handed Ace in the hole to prove that the Pauline epistles is actually telling us that a Christian can be demonized.
And actually Paul is saying, just hand them over to Satan, even though his spirit is saved.
Just hand them over so they can learn the lesson.
And then when they get delivered, they'll come back.
How do they get delivered?
Ministry of deliverance.
And one thing I learned from watching y'all and watching the movie was I never thought about taking my actual Bible and laying it on people.
But you know what?
There is something about the Word of God.
We can read it on our phones, but it's not the same.
And so that was one thing that I learned from just that.
And I've had deliverance ministry teaching for years.
But I want to ask something about demons and them wanting to be in a body, them wanting to be in a host, them wanting to be.
Y'all talk about that in the movie, and then Sunday morning when we were at Pastor Grace Church, which I had not been there on a Sunday morning in two years, so it was interesting to be back there because he has a bigger tent this time, and he's different.
He's grown so much.
I can see, and I told him on my show, I can see so much growth in him prophetically, which is just amazing to me to watch how God's growing him prophetically.
Anyway, but let's talk about, if you will, because you have so much more experience.
You're like the grandfather of deliverance in my mind right now.
I wouldn't say that.
But that's what I feel like.
Maybe a general or corporal, maybe a captain.
Maybe it's the gray in your beard.
I'm thinking you're like the grandfather of it right now.
But you're young.
I'm probably the pioneering voice that helped Greg thrust him forward, but there are others that have influenced him that led to that point.
But thank you for the compliment, though.
Yes, but you still know, you understand this spirituality, because we're physical beings in a spiritual world.
Right.
And we don't see ourselves that way because we're so fleshy, but that's the truth.
And so can you talk a little bit about why they want to inhabit and where that comes from?
Because, you know, we know Noah's Ark and how it was like the sons of man with the sons of women, you know, all that.
We know all that.
Or the angels and all that.
Disembodied spirits of the Nephilim.
That's what you're talking about.
Yes.
That became demons.
Yes.
Like why they want to be inside and why they want, you know, Why they don't want to leave and what that means.
Well, this concept of level of demonology is up for debate.
You know, there's many different ways of viewing it.
There's a great mystery.
You know, that's kind of like what started me to write this book.
The initial question that I had was, Lord, where does Legion go?
When it inhabits a human soul, like where does it go?
How does one body fit 200 spirits or 2,000 or 3,000, whatever legion would be considered at least at that time?
So my answer, I'm going to try to be as biblical as I can, but it's still an unfolding mystery that is still being revealed.
But here's one way to look at it.
If there could be, if there is a mysterious, A hidden way where demons that are disembodied spirits could experience This physical world from another dimension through a human vessel,
which means maybe not necessarily eat, but feel and express their hatred or express their emotions, because demons are entities.
They are personalities.
And they desire not just to be worshipped, but as a personality, they desire to express themselves.
If there is a hidden way that they can, well, hidden to modern civilization that they can do that living inside a human soul, where they can actually feel what we feel, experience what we experience, and then manipulate that to carry out the will of their Lord,
which is the devil, you know, then I would assume that not only do they want to do that to fulfill Hell's agenda, But also their personal desires, their own personal.
This is why when you're gonna cast out a demon, you'll find a demon saying, this is my home.
I've been living here a long time.
No, I'm not gonna leave.
You know, they'll fight you.
They'll verbally argue with you to not be cast out of the person that they are living in.
Why?
Well, very simple.
How would you like the government, let's just be honest here, let's talk about our rights, right?
The government come and try to get you off your property that's legally yours.
What you gonna do?
You gonna fight.
You gonna fight to defend it.
Why?
Because it's not just my house, this is my home.
I have memories here.
I love this.
I love it here.
I put in work here.
I've raised a family here.
It's the same way.
When a demon inhabits a human soul, If they can experience the desires of their own as a personality along with the desires of the person that they're inhabiting and carry out and experience human existence and lead the person to hell, Then they're going to do that, and they're not going to leave without a fight.
As a matter of fact, they will fight you to the death, which is why some deliverance sessions are not five minutes.
This is why sometimes I go, you know, the people that criticize deliverance the most are the ones that do it the least.
They'll say, oh, with one command, Jesus cast out a demon.
You got all these deliverance ministers for there for hours.
Well, first let me say this.
Jesus is God manifested in the flesh.
We're children of God in the flesh.
There's a big difference there.
Alright, so Jesus is God.
So with one command, I get out.
I'm not God.
I'm not God.
So I don't have to listen to the little sons of God and the daughters of God.
I'm not gonna listen to them.
When he says it, I gotta get out of this body.
But if they say it, I'm gonna fight you.
So they're going to fight us.
And when you listen to sometimes their pleas to not get cast out, you'll learn some things.
And sometimes certain demons not only will fight you, But even they have an emotional attachment to the host in which they are living in.
And they'll say things like this, but she wants me here.
She doesn't want me to leave.
She likes for me.
He likes for me to be here.
He needs me.
Don't cast me out.
Don't listen to this preacher.
You name it, they see it.
So this is kind of like you get some insight into that.
It's no different than if someone was to try to come and take over my house.
I'm going to fight for this house.
You know, I'm gonna fight for this house.
It's the same way.
So I think that's where the mystery is.
We're not dealing with impersonal force.
We're dealing with malevolent entities that they themselves have their own will and desires and are motivated by an agenda from Satan, their chief commander, that they must carry out.
So there's two things going on.
Personal desire as a demonic entity with their own self, expressing themselves in human existence.
And then second, They're under a chain of command in which they have to listen to the strong man.
The strong man answers to the rule of darkness.
The rule of darkness answers to Satan.
So there's an agenda to push forward.
And if both of those things are driving them, you'll find that demons are infatuated.
They are obsessed with inhabiting human souls.
That's really interesting.
And, you know, there's one thing that keeps coming from my mind and it's forgiveness.
And I think it's because I'm thinking about the spiritual law around how they can actually come and why they can stay and why, you know, when you say certain things or close certain doors or, you know, sometimes delivery takes longer because we have to deal with some things.
Mm-hmm.
For me, it was everything I've ever done, it's always been forgiveness.
There's always things tied there that it's like Satan has legal right or the demonic has legal right to stay.
Is there anything else that you can see that's like forgiveness that you deal with that really has to be dealt with before the legal right is gone so they have to leave or Right.
Does that make sense?
Well, very simple.
The generational curse.
Demons and deliverance is one aspect.
Okay, let me just explain it like this for your viewers.
Deliverance is its own ecosystem.
Like a coral reef on the shores of the rocks on the water.
When you go under the water, you'll see a whole vast ecosystem of life living there.
Deliverance is like that.
It's like a network.
It's like an ecosystem.
It's many different levels.
Everything is not a demon, but sometimes it's a work of a demon.
Just like sometimes it might not be a demon, but you have a cursed item in your house that's opening the door to a devil.
The item itself is not a demon, but it belongs to the devil.
So there's this whole ecosystem that is there.
Now, with all of the thousands of one-on-one sessions, That I have done deliverance on.
The number one and hardest one to deal with is unforgiveness.
Unforgiveness is at the top.
People think witchcraft is at the top.
Witchcraft is the second.
Unforgiveness is at the top.
And I'm going to tell you why.
Because forgiveness is something the person has to do.
They have to choose to forgive.
The Holy Spirit will empower the believer, but Jesus said it in Matthew 18, and I also believe he said it in Matthew chapter 16, or Matthew chapter 6.
He said, if you don't forgive, your heavenly Father will not forgive you.
That's a heavy statement, which means your unforgiveness can move the courtroom of heaven and tie God's hands from not moving on your behalf, which is why forgiveness is something that it is absolutely imperative that you have to do.
This is the reason why it's in the Lord's Prayer right before deliverance.
Lord, forgive us as we forgive those who trespass against us.
Lead us and not, but deliver us from evil.
So forgiveness has to be before the deliverance.
Why?
Because if not, the courtroom of heaven cannot act on your behalf.
Not that you nullify the power of the blood.
Nothing can nullify the power of the blood.
But you tie God's hand in applying the blood in your life because if you don't forgive, The Bible is clear.
He will not forgive you.
So that means you're in a state of unforgiveness.
Unforgiveness gives the devil legal right to be there.
But the second thing that's tied to the first is, at least in our church, when we're going to do a deliverance session, we always tackle the generational curses before we actually go and start the deliverance process.
Why?
Because a generational curse is not a demon.
A generational curse is an edict.
Sent by the courtroom of heaven against a person, against a family, against a nation, against a group of people, because they committed a sin that warrants it.
Let me give you an example.
If I have an argument with my wife, that's not gonna produce a generational curse.
But if I commit adultery on my wife, that will produce a generational curse.
Why?
Even though all sin is wickedness, 1 John chapter 5 says, and you can go read this, those of you that I'm sure and I'm hoping that you're testing everything that I'm saying and being a good Berean, those of you that are watching.
1 John chapter 5 says, not all sin leads to death.
It actually says that.
It says there are some sins that lead to death and then there are other sins that do not lead to death.
The next verse says, those that commit a sin that doesn't lead to death, you can pray for life and God will give them life.
Which means this is not a courtroom thing.
Get in an argument where my wife is not gonna send me to hell.
If Christ came at the moment where we're arguing, that's impossible.
I'm sealed by the blood of Jesus.
But if I am committing secret adultery on her and Christ comes, I'm gonna miss the rapture.
There's no way around that one.
You might miss it.
You know what I'm saying?
I wouldn't even play around with that.
So when God curses, A people is because they committed a sin that warranted.
You got sin, you got transgression, you got iniquity, and then you have abomination.
Abomination level will always produce a generational curse.
Homosexuality will always produce a generational curse.
Abortion will always produce a generational curse.
Why?
Because those are sins that God will never change his mind.
No matter what we say, God will never change his mind.
It's an offense to the courtroom of heaven.
It is confusion.
It will cause a generational curse.
So watch this.
So if a family commits those sins, witchcraft is in there as well.
So if a family commits those sins, The courtroom of heaven deems them cursed.
The curse is an edict sent to hell like a paperwork.
Like a paperwork.
That is a paperwork because I don't know how that works.
But a memo is sent to hell saying this family is cursed.
Now the devil comes and attacks that family because depending on the sin will depend on the consequences.
Right?
So the devil will carry out The edict or the judgment of the courtroom of heaven against the family.
Even though they get saved, the penalty of that sin is resolved at the cross, which means if you die, you're going to heaven.
Deliverance doesn't end at the cross, it begins at the cross.
So then you're asking, what does the cross do?
The cross breaks the power of sin, not the presence of sin.
The cross breaks the power of the curse, not the presence of curses.
Alright?
So this is why you get saved.
If Christ comes, you're going to heaven.
You're in relationship.
But then there's these curses that need to be resolved.
So here you are, you're a Christian, but your mind, you can't control it.
Even though you're fasting and you're praying, your mind, you can't control it.
You're having all of these unbelievable thoughts.
Alright?
And you're doing everything right.
You're crucifying the flesh.
The thoughts are still there.
It's a demon.
Sometimes the demon is perpetuated by generational curses that are there.
So when you go to a deliverance minister and he knows what they're doing, before they continue in the deliverance session, they have to resolve the courtroom thing and get it resolved.
Get the person from a perpetual state of being cursed, generational curse or hereditary sins, That gets resolved, and now God is able to work even more.
The memo is sent to the devil.
Release them.
The devil has to release them, right?
And then the deliverance process continues, and you're able to work.
If you don't do that, you will find, and I'll end with this.
If you don't resolve the generational curse, what's going to happen is...
A 25-minute deliverance session will turn into a 10-hour deliverance session.
Why?
Because the curse hasn't been resolved.
But when the curse gets resolved, the curse is like the electrical power plant in your city that's powering your house.
When you resolve the curse, you destroy, you turn off the power plant.
The power plant gets turned off.
The house now has to run on generators.
And the devil will work on a generator.
Did you catch the metaphor of what I just said?
Amen.
You're smiling because you caught the metaphor there.
So when you remove the curse, the generator gets turned on and the generator runs out of gas.
So the devil's running wild for a little bit and then eventually he has to get out.
I gave you a whole Bible study today.
That was awesome.
Okay, so one thing, and then we're going to talk about the movie in the book one more time.
What about all sins are equal?
Because that's what we hear all the time.
All sins are equal.
Especially people in the transgender community, they want to say that.
It's no different than overeating, or it's no different than gossiping.
But you were being clear about that.
It's a different level because of the curses.
Right, right.
So, 1 John chapter 5, you know, 1 John chapter 5 actually talks about this, you know, and you could go read this in your own time.
1 John chapter 5 verse 16, so that way you guys can look it up for yourself.
Look what it says.
If you see a fellow believer sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give that person life.
But there is a sin that does lead to death.
And I am not saying that you should pray for those who commit it.
Verse 17 now.
All wickedness is sin, but not every sin leads to death.
That's in the Bible.
It's written right there.
Alright, now the Apostle John had to write all wickedness is not sin because he knew that in the future religious people will read that and put everything under the same category.
But then he finishes it with a comma and says not all sin leads to death.
He actually says that there are sins that lead to death.
That I have more severe consequences in the courtroom of heaven, and then there are sins that does not.
So, I know that we haven't been taught that because we've always been taught all sin leads to death.
The wages of sin is death.
That is positional.
Alright, but practical?
1 John chapter 5 does not say that.
You can go read this.
1 John chapter 5, alright, verses...
Verses 18, 19, it's literally this, 16, 17, and 18.
So, not all sin has the same consequences.
Let me use a parable to help you understand that.
You know, if my son is dishonorable in talking back to me, that's not, he's gonna get punished, obviously, because he shouldn't talk to his father like that.
But the punishment, he might get grounded for a night.
He might get grounded for two nights.
I might take the video game console from him or whatever the case may be.
I'm not gonna kick him out my house and say, uh, this all sin, you know, all sin is the same.
You know, what you said deserves the same penalty.
You must get out my house.
No!
It's the same.
Scripture is the same.
John is saying all sin does not lead to death.
So anger, disagreement, work of the flesh, probably not going to lead you to hell if you die in that condition.
Why?
Because we all get angry.
We all are being sanctified.
We all are, you know, getting out of our present lukewarmness.
You know, it is what it is.
But there are certain sins that do lead To eternal death.
As I said, if I'm married and I'm committing adultery and living in adultery with no care of the repercussions or consequences, if Christ came or I died, there might be a problem there in the afterlife.
Now, I'm not sitting here to say someone's gonna go to hell or not, but I wouldn't want to be that person.
Homosexuality.
I'm sorry y'all for those of you that are watching.
Homosexuality falls under the category of an abomination and God will never change his mind on that.
Abortion.
God will never change his mind on that.
Witchcraft.
God will never change his mind on that.
These are the sins that do lead to death.
Hatred.
Racism.
It's an abomination because it falls under the category of hating your brother and the Bible says if you hate Your fellow man, you are a murderer.
And then the next verse says, and no murderer has eternal life living in him.
Which means, racism is an abomination that does lead to death.
Now, having preferences, very different.
It's scriptural, and I know maybe some of you that are watching probably have never heard of that, but go read it.
So, does God get angry at all sin?
Yes.
But is God indignant against every sin?
No.
He'll convict me if I'm arguing with my wife, but he won't be filled with wrath and indignation and come down and strike me down because I'm having an argument and a disagreement with someone.
But if I'm taking the grace of God as a joke and living a double life and living in secret sin and committing abomination, then God might visit me and do what he said in the book of Revelation, spew me out of his mouth, that means you ain't saved.
That's heavy, which means you were in the body and God vomited you out.
So there is a vast difference.
1 John 1 says in closing, if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
And if we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive us of our sin in Christ and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness, the curse.
That was beautiful.
Listen, you're amazing.
That's why your church is an amazing church.
You have this dense wealth of knowledge.
I could talk to you for five hours.
This is amazing.
So we'll have to have you on again.
You have to come on again.
We'll do a few months or whatever, but you have to come on again.
Everybody, go get his book.
Show the book again, Pastor Alex.
I just ordered it, so I'm going to read it before you if you don't get it right now.
The Secrets to Deliverance by Pastor Alexander Pagani.
Go and get it.
Defeat.
Hold it up, I'm going to read it.
Defeat the toughest cases of demonic bondage.
Go order it right now, guys.
And then, really quick, we're going to talk about the movie.
Come out in Jesus' name.
And I want to tell you, y'all going to watch the movie.
You know, it is a movie, so there's characters.
We're going to talk in terms of characters.
I love Pastor Greg and Ty a lot.
I love them.
They are my dear friends.
I've known them for years.
But I'm going to tell you, I fell in love with Pastor Alex.
And there are several of the pastors I love so much, but you watch the movie, you're going to see him.
He is just, it's anointed.
So tell them what you want to tell them about the movie.
And I know you're getting more dates where it's coming out again.
And so let's talk about it.
Well, first and foremost, the movie became number four in the box office for Fathom events for a one-night-only viewing all over the country, so that is absolutely astounding and amazing that a Christian movie would have that response.
There is an encore presentation of the movie April 10th and 11th.
www.comeoutinjesusname.com.
The tickets have already been, I'm being told that 12,000 tickets already got sold.
You need to go and get the tickets now to be able to view it again.
So the day after Easter, Easter's April 9th, 10th and 11th, it's gonna be in movie theaters all over the country.
We want you today, just go to www.
I'm sure that the description of the video would have the link there.
Go, get the movie, bring your family and friends.
The movie is about Greg, obviously, his transition from full-blown Baptist cessationalist to continuationist, but then his encounter with meeting some of us, reading the book, The Secrets to Deliverance, and then what happened at the tent when all the demon slayers came.
Trust me, by the time we get to the end of the film, deliverance is gonna happen all over the country.
And if you haven't figured out what's happening, go to social media, Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, and just type in hashtag, come out in Jesus' name, and you're gonna be able to see video clips of deliverances happening all over the country from Everywhere.
We were sold out in the Bronx, and deliverance broke out after the service.
An hour later, people were still getting delivered.
The movie managers came.
They couldn't stop it.
They walked away.
They called the police.
The police came and said, these people are worshiping.
We can't stop them.
It's their amendment right to be able to worship freely.
We got to walk out of here.
They left.
It's been absolutely, absolutely phenomenal.
And we want to encourage those of you, even if you're a skeptic, even if you're still on the fence, this movie is the most well-balanced, There have been Calvinist, reformed, even anti-deliverance people that actually have authentically said that this is the most well-balanced movie on deliverance that they've seen.
They attempted to think that it would be sensational.
It is absolutely not.
It glorifies Jesus.
No deliverance idolatry.
No demon consciousness being perpetuated.
Only Christ crucified.
Trust me.
And on top of that, if you need deliverance, Get set free while the movie's happening.
And you're going to see my encounter with Ty, my encounter with Greg, and how you're going to be in tears.
That's all I'm going to say is you're going to be in tears.
I was crying.
I cried.
I did.
I cried.
And my husband doesn't cry, but he said, if I could cry, I would cry right now.
He had this weird experience.
His dog died when he was like nine, and he doesn't cry at all.
It's crazy.
But anyway, he's always happy.
He leads worship.
I promise you, if he sees it a second time, watch his face.
He's going to have a little tear come down his face, I tell you.
It's awesome, y'all.
Y'all have to go watch it.
It teaches you truth.
And I'm so sick of theology.
I have a PhD, so I love philosophy.
So do I. I love studying, and I'm a scholar.
I love it.
But this whole different theology, and it's getting upset and mad.
We've got to stop.
We've got to quit being divided.
Give me Jesus, all of Him, so I can walk it out, and it's be kingdom-minded.
We've got to get there.
Yes, and I would encourage you.
You're going to find that this is the most doctrinally, theologically sound, but also demonstrative, which means teaching and demonstration.
We don't just teach it, we go and demonstrate it, but God doing it, not us manufacturing it.
See, you're going to see some deliverance sessions happen in the movie that no man could have manufactured that.
No man could have manufactured that.
There's specifically one deliverance session in that movie that I was praying that they put in the movie and that they did.
And you guys, I'm not going to give any spoilers away, but when you see the movie, there's going to be one that's going to touch your heart because it touched my heart because it didn't start off.
It started off with rebellion and then ended with someone saying the sinner's prayer and that just, it just set the tone for the whole movie.
Amazing.
You need to go see it and I want to encourage you to go see it and bring your family and friends before the theater gets sold out.
Buy the tickets tonight as soon as you see this video.
Everybody, Pastor Alex, y'all go follow him.
Follow him on all his media.
We're going to put it on the bottom of the screen, but tell them where you go the most.
Where are you the most?
YouTube.
YouTube, only because we have a lot more flexibility there to preach.
Facebook kind of gets a little wacky with the censoring and things like that.
But I would say the link of how do you...
Go to our YouTube channel.
We'll be pinned in the description of this video.
Just follow us if you're interested in learning about deliverance and just good old-fashioned Bible teaching and preaching.
Deliverance is not the foremost of what we do on our channel.
It's a large thrust.
But if you want to learn deeper things, want to grow in your Christian faith in every aspect, And in deliverance, then I would encourage you, give me the honor of allowing me to be your online teacher and one of your favorite preachers online.
And thank you for your support and follow us on YouTube.
Thank you so much, Pastor Alex, for giving us your time.
We love you here at Jesus' Guns and Babies.
You're welcome back.
And so I will see you all next week at 8 o'clock p.m.
Eastern Standard Time on the Stu Peters Network.
I am Dr.
Candice Taylor.
I love you.
God bless you.
you.
God bless America.
Hey everybody.
I want you to go to heavensharvest.com promo code Candice, and I want you to get prepped.
We don't know what's coming, who knows, but regardless whether it's a hurricane, national disaster, or the whole government shuts down, they have awesome deals on freeze-dried food.
In fact, they have a new item, it's freeze-dried cans.
It's a lot less expensive than the big barrels.
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