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Sept. 17, 2015 - InfoWars Special Reports
56:13
Pope Francis And The Jesuit Order
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Leo Zagami is actually a member of the Order Illuminati Universalis, a group considered to be on the good side of the Vatican Illuminati.
And I'm going to let him explain what that is.
Leo Zagami, are you there?
Hello, everybody.
I'm here, and I'm glad to be on Operation Money Bomb.
It's an honor.
Oh, well, thank you.
I'm glad you could join us.
You look great, as usual.
What I really like is that when you went out to meet us in Rome, you were dressed up in a suit, even though it was blistering hot in that.
And humid in that weather.
But you were ready to put the information out there.
And we spent, I don't know, till about 2 a.m.
walking around the city, talking, finding different spots to set up.
And I think it was a really good interview, a great way to end that trip.
We couldn't get people to speak out.
It was really hard to get Italians to speak what was on their mind on camera.
They would say a lot of stuff to you, turn the camera on them, and they wouldn't say anything.
So, Leo, what is going on in Rome right now and in Italy with the immigration crisis?
I guess that's my first question for you.
I mean, we are all expecting Pope Francis to arrive in your country on the 22, but in the meantime, here in Italy and in Europe, the situation is really getting out of control, of course.
I mean, what I have said in the past through my articles also on Infowars with the Kalerji plan, which is this plan which was devised almost 100 years ago by Count Kalerji,
who was one of the founders of this pan-Europa idea, of this united Europe, who was one of the founders of this pan-Europa idea, of this united Europe, and with somebody who was supposed to become emperor Otto, this future emperor of the Austrian Empire, which was, of course, not But this situation created actually Europe.
These aristocrats who were basically starting to become decadent aristocrats, starting to fade away, in reality they were camouflaging themselves, creating this new sacred Roman Empire called the European Union.
And at the moment, in Hungary, the situation is, of course, in front of the eyes of everybody in the world.
But Hungary is also, let's not forget, one of the only countries.
That is openly speaking against the Euro, is openly saying that they don't want to follow anymore the politics and the course of this European Union, because we know what's happening.
It's a part of a new world order plan.
And of course, in all of this, there is also a great big part being played by the Catholic Church.
As you know, the Catholic Church...
Church is, of course, at the center of the Sacred Roman Empire in Rome.
The Treaty of Rome really establishes Europe in the 50s.
So I think that this crisis, unfortunately, now is going to develop in something much worse than what we are just seeing now.
These are just the first squabbles.
I think that with this kind of immigration, we are risking civil war in parts of Europe in the next few years.
It's very hard to stop this immigration.
I think that this kind of immigration, you know, these refugees escaping from, of course, terrible theaters of war, but...
Who is responsible for all this?
They are doing it on purpose because the plan is to destroy the ethnicity of every single European group because ethnicity means also a certain degree of nationalism that could be dangerous for this mondialist plan.
And a sovereign attitude.
That's what people are going to have.
They're going to be like, you know what?
I want to keep my country, my country, and you can have your country.
And instead of it all being one just mix of kind of like, I guess, smudging all the colors together.
Now, in your book, which is...
News of the last few hours, Rob.
In Italy, one of the main politicians called Boldrini, she's a woman in charge here in Italy, one of the highest position of power.
She said, we are giving up our sovereignty for the United States of Europe.
So this is what is happening here in Italy.
We're giving up our sovereignty.
And, of course, this shouldn't be happening.
But it's part of this plan which seems unstoppable and which, of course, sees the full support of the Pope.
But even the Pope, in an interview to Portuguese radio...
Not so long ago, has said, has admitted that terrorists will be together with the refugees and these immigrants.
And so the danger is there.
And now the X hour, what we have been talking about when I was in Rome, you know, you remember, we've been talking about this planned attack on the Vatican.
Because you yourself, Rob, I mean, you can say to our viewers what you saw in Rome, a very...
Unprepared police that in any case is really working in a very difficult situation because with all these immigrants arriving, with all this constant chaos, you never know who is who.
And so, of course, planting a bomb in the Vatican or next to the Vatican is not so difficult after all.
And let me tell you, there isn't a lot.
There is security in Rome.
And in the Vatican, but I could easily see what the numbers of people that they allow in there that attack could happen.
And in your book, The Last Pope, you actually have, there's a page here from Dabio, and it says the failed crusade, and it's got the ISIS flag planted on top of that giant spire that is right in front of St. Peter's Cathedral.
Yes, I don't think they will actually ever manage to conquer Rome, but they will definitely manage to put Rome into chaos.
Exactly, I agree.
They want to do this with the beginning of this Jubilee of Mercy, which the Pope announced and is starting at the beginning of December.
And like I showed you in Rome, I mean, there is a lot of police, of course, even ourselves got in trouble in the Vatican, you know.
When we were filming, I mean, there is very tight...
And even myself, who I know very well, many of the people who are in charge of this security, they themselves tell me, Leo, we are very afraid of this situation.
So what's going to happen?
I mean, here we are talking about a terrorist attack at the core, at the center of Christianity.
And that will, of course, change everything and launch really an apocalyptic field that will go out of proportions.
I totally agree with you.
And this Pope, definitely he has some baggage.
In reading your book, I didn't even know he was involved in some terrorist activity, it seems like, in Argentina back in his early days.
He wants to...
There seems to be...
I'm going to throw a lot of things at you and then let you pick what you want to talk about.
But in your book, you talk about how there's about 40 priests who are practicing Islam inside St. Peter's Cathedral.
Chrislam, which is the merging of Christianity and Islam.
And, you know, I guess we got a little bit covered ISIS attack on Rome.
That's an easy way for ISIS to infiltrate into Rome by hitching riot on all these immigrants that are coming in.
But, you know, the Pope is coming to the U.S. He wants to talk about the climate, how we're responsible for climate change.
Go ahead.
If you go and check into his schedule, on the Friday, September 25th, he's going to do, at 11.30am, a multi-religious service at 9-11 Memorial Museum.
Wow.
I repeat, multi-religious service, which, in the standards of which I talk also in my book, Pope Francis, the last Pope, which you have read, is to put together Islam, then the Jews, of course, and then we have Christians.
So that means that probably on that day, we could even see an imam together with the Pope.
I mean, what does it mean, multi-religious in your eyes?
I mean, it's quite an announcement to state that the Pope is going to do a multi-religious service in this, of course, historical ground, which is ground zero.
Well, and it's all about being nice and accepting everything and not having any standards whatsoever and saying, hey, whatever you want to do is cool, and then I have to be forced to like it whether I like it or not or whether I believe it's against my beliefs.
You know, Pope Francis came out and said priests can forgive women who've had abortions, which on his face you're like, well, you know, should we be, you know, women who made this decision, should we be condemning them?
But what it's doing is saying the religion should be changing its ideals on it, He's not saying priests.
He's actually wanting to change the religious views on this.
Because once the priests start saying it's okay, then everybody else says it's okay.
So it's from the top down taking on that aspect of it.
And then going after climate change, it's just...
And then also taking in the refugees.
Taking in the refugees, I think, is...
I don't see the Vatican opening their walls up to refugees and migrants at this point.
But they want everybody else to take them.
Rob, the subject of divorce.
Suddenly, this Pope wakes up and decides that divorce is okay.
I mean, Protestantism started for a reason.
And divorce in Catholicism is something that was never put into question.
So here we are seeing a Pope, which as Newsweek has pointed out in a way, is he Catholic?
I mean, the question mark is as big as a house, actually as big as St. Peter's.
So, I mean, this pope is obviously not a Catholic.
He's a Jesuit, he's a Mondialist, he's a New Age pope that will accept everything, promote the New Age creed, which is, I mean, what he's promoting is typical of the Democrats, of the communists.
Of everything that is left, because Jesuits have actually created communism, even if later, of course, it was promoted by eminent Jews, Zionists, and whatever.
But we have the Jesuits who have created this in South America with their redactions, and they experimented what was called communism.
I mean, at one point, the Jesuit order, which Pope Francis belongs to, Kicked out of the Vatican, as I write in my book.
And they were actually only reinstalled in the Vatican in 1815 after Napoleon's death.
So we're talking here about a fragment of time in which the Jesuits were completely illegal, even for the Vatican.
Now we have instead a Jesuit Pope.
Of course, a Jesuit Pope means promoting everything that is not conservative.
I mean, you can see it with your own eyes every day.
And so, how can the USA welcome a Pope like this?
I mean, this is not a Pope to welcome in a nation, the US, predominantly Christian, which still retains serious Christian values.
Now, these Christian values are just sold out, like everything is for sale, and they're just given not anymore that importance.
So it is very sad to see this transformation of the Catholic Church, which is basically in decline, and it's maybe Ratzinger himself when he gave that speech in Ratisbona.
You remember the famous speech which started the controversy with the Muslim world?
You remember that famous speech he did at the university?
I think it was around 10 years ago.
This speech was basically to say that the Islamic religion has some very big problems.
In accepting other religions also has very big problems in being different totally for our Christian creed which gives birth to Europe and to America.
It's a completely different ballgame with Islam.
So if we are now accepting by the thousands these Islamic people here in Europe and then we see that they don't really get welcomed by their own countries.
I mean the Emirates.
Hasn't taken on board one refugee.
They are just as bad as the Vatican, Rob.
Yeah, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, none of the big, the wealthy countries there have taken in maybe a small handful, like less than 20. But they offered to give money to construct 200 mosques in Germany.
I mean...
What does that mean?
That's an invasion.
That's an invasion force, essentially.
And people are saying these are all Christians coming.
No, these aren't Christians coming.
Christians would assimilate well.
These people don't seem to have any...
Not all of them, but some of them, I've seen some videos, and they're running wild.
They're in a new land.
They're in an area that's wealthy.
You see a lot of things like public facilities, transportation, and they're just destroying it.
Now, I want to go...
There's a picture here in your book that blew me away.
And it's a picture of Pope John Paul, which when I was a boy, Pope John Paul was the guy you looked up to.
Very pious man.
But here he is with Jimmy Seville.
And go to this shot, please.
I don't think people will believe it unless they see it for their own eyes.
That's Jimmy Seville before he died.
A guy who would go have necrophilic sex with people in the hospitals and shaking hands with the Pope.
He had dungeons where he took little girls and raped them.
Evil, evil man.
So, I mean, how do people like this get this close to the Pope?
How does this happen?
We can show the picture to our viewers.
Yeah, yeah, we're showing it to them right now on camera.
Yeah, but how does that happen?
Well, he was actually appointed a knight.
That was the incredible thing.
He was appointed a knight.
And once he was appointed a knight by the Pope...
He had the possibility of entering all the charity hospitals with the little kids.
I mean, basically, the Vatican was giving him the possibility, the ulterior possibility, because he was also a knighted by the Queen of England, to have access to a bunch of kids.
We know from the reports what Jimmy Savile did.
I mean, he even engaged in necromancy.
He is speaking, I mean, it's terrible even speaking about it.
He made jewels out of parts of body of little kids.
I mean, Jimmy Savile and what is supposed to be a saint.
Of the Catholic Church, well, I mean, of course, this puts into question the whole reality of the Catholic Church, dear Rob.
I think we are in front of a church which is clearly not reflecting anything Jesus ever said or did.
I totally agree, and I think a lot of that is the money, the amount of money and wealth they have, breeds corruption, building a giant wall around your city, making yourself a sovereign nation within a nation.
That's a big thing.
We're going to get to more of this.
I just want to do a little bit of housekeeping here.
You are watching right now the 2015 Operation Money Bob.
This is my guest, Leo Zagami, joining us from Italy.
And his book is Pope Francis, the Last Pope.
We did a long, we're going to play an interview with him in the morning, about 10 a.m.
And it'll be a world premiere.
You'll see some amazing shots of Rome.
And we spent, I don't know, I probably shot about two and a half hours of footage of Leo just throwing questions at him and just letting him roll.
As you can see, he's a very good speaker.
And he can talk a lot about this stuff.
Leo, we're going to take a short break and we're going to come back with Joseph Wages, who's a guy that you turned me on to, told me about, and talk about how the Illuminati...
What does that stand for?
The universe.
It's basically an order that was born in 1999 within the Monte Carlo Lodge of the P2. Everybody knows about the P2 scandal, of course.
It was this irregular deviant lodge belonging to the Grand Orient of Italy.
So it was a split between two groups within one lodge and they formed...
Of course, within this P2 reality, once the scandal erupted, they started splitting up.
So we were part of one of these, let's say, split up groups.
And of course, I constituted this group initially because I wanted to really go deep into the study of certain subjects, promote also a real change within the system of Freemasonry, which is, of course, has many Good sides.
That's why it's good to have Joseph today, because Joseph is an eminent historian and published his first book on the rituals of the Illuminati.
And I think it's a good job today that we can finally distinguish fact from fiction, myth from reality.
So it's important that people know.
For example, they say, ah, no, the Illuminati don't exist.
Well, actually they exist, because apart from my order, which was born in 1999, in 2002, the ex-grandmaster of the Grand Orient of Italy, Giuliano Di Bernardo, founded with some Jesuits, some very important people from the Vatican, the Academy of the Illuminati.
And this is a reality.
This is, I mean, it's not a fiction.
And so we are finding more and more now with people like me and Joseph Wages, the possibility also for normal people, the average Joe out there, to actually finally have a look and understand what's really going on within these secret establishments.
I mean, for example, if you may see it, it's not really a secret society because everybody knows about it, but the secrets within it, then it's a different story.
Within the Vatican, there is various Masonic lodges.
Of course, Joseph himself will probably confirm this when we will bring him on.
The thing is that we as masons, I mean, I was made a mason in a traditional setup and whatever.
I don't consider a priest who secretly is also a freemason to be a regular freemason.
And that's why...
I started to meet certain characters from the Vatican when I went into irregular Freemasonry.
Of course, in the end, this irregular Freemasonry brought me out of regular Freemasonry because the two things are not compatible.
Also, I was fought very much by another sect, which is a Paramasonic sect, which you know about, which is called the Ordo Tempi Orientis.
And basically, these people, they were against my stand, conservative stand on certain things.
But also, I wanted to bring out the truth to the people.
And that is the thing.
At the same time, they are corrupting.
Freemasonry are corrupting all the institutions, the church, politics.
And at the same time, there is nobody really who can stop them because if you try to stop them, they say, ah, but it doesn't exist, this problem.
So you're making them up in your own head.
And they say, we have diplomatic immunity, and then they go behind their walls and you can't touch them.
So that's where it goes.
And we're going to go to break real quick, and we'll be back with Joseph Wages.
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I'll be back with my guest Leo Zagami, and we'll be joined by Joseph Wages.
There is still more to come.
We're going to be here until 3 p.m.
tomorrow afternoon, so stay tuned.
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And I was just cruising through on the Twitterverse here.
A lot of people are very interested in what you have to say, Leo.
You've really got some people's heads turned.
Some guy named Izzy was amazed at the picture of Jimmy Seville and the Pope.
And you can find that in Leo's book, Pope Francis, the last Pope.
Someone else noticed the...
Crooked cross.
You were using the picture of the Pope with that cross.
And he is a Jesuit.
A lot of people want you to talk about the Jesuit thing.
And right as I saw those questions, you started bringing up how Pope Francis is a Jesuit.
And they had been kicked out, and now they're back in.
And let's bring on our next guest.
Joseph Wages is a 32-degree Mason of the Plano Lodge No.
768 in the Dallas Valley of the Scottish Rite Freemasonry.
He's a fellow of the Grand College of Rights and a life member of the Missouri Lodge of Research.
He's currently preparing his forthcoming book, The Columbian Illuminati.
And the book he sent me is The Secret School of Wisdom, which is chocked full of just essays and different, I don't know, just everything I think you'd ever want to know about the Illuminati seems to be covered in this book and Freemasonry and where they collide and don't collide.
Joseph, are you there?
I'm here Rob.
Thanks for having me on today.
Yeah, so I kind of want to get you and Leo on for kind of a broader discussion for the next 15 minutes or so, talking about the Illuminati's ties with Catholicism and how those worlds intermingle, what you know, what Leo knows, and just kind talking about the Illuminati's ties with Catholicism and how those worlds intermingle, what you know, what Leo knows, and just kind of explaining people how maybe there are some myths and realities versus the secret societies
So I'm going to give you a little bit of time here with Leo, and then we're going to talk.
We'll get into your book once Leo leaves us.
But so looking at the Pope and what's going on now with the Jesuits, how do the Jesuits intermingle with, I guess, the Illuminati?
How do those two worlds collide?
Okay, so if we go back historically, the decaying Holy Roman Empire in the 18th century, Bavaria was a state in Germany.
And basically what it was, the educational system was controlled by the Jesuit order.
And so the Pope disbanded the Jesuits in 1774. And when he disbanded them, he created a power vacuum.
So here we have young Adam Weishaupt, a professor of canon law.
He's the first non-Jesuit to ascend to the position of professor of canon law.
And the reason why it's significant is because he's the first non-Jesuit that's ever done this before.
And so he got crossed with the Jesuits.
They kind of throttled him a little bit.
And ultimately, he rejected their method of instruction, which is more like rote memorization, like not any kind of critical thinking, more or less like kind of drone knowledge, what I call academic bulimia, so binge and purge, that kind of deal.
And so what ends up happening is that very repression of the Enlightenment that the Jesuit order through the institution of education is placing down the society, it actually creates a need for something like what Adam Weishaupt wanted to put together, which he considered a secret school of wisdom.
They teach everything that the Jesuits weren't teaching in school about philosophy, science, mathematics, just general things about the Enlightenment, reason, ration, virtue, and those sorts of things.
Okay.
Leo, where do you see the—oh, is Leo not there?
I think, okay, we might be reconnecting with Leo.
Okay.
So I guess my next question is, do you see any significance with the Pope coming to the United States?
In your Freemasonic areas of influence, do you see anything going on with that?
Well, I mean, as far as the Catholic Church goes, if you're Catholic, I guess it's going to be a big deal.
Me personally, I don't really have an opinion one way or the other on the whole situation.
You know, it is strange, though, because they are trying to push a lot of that environmentalism thing like that, and like a lot of the things, you know, so my regular profession, I'm a mechanical designer, and I see a lot of these agenda-type driven things where all these sustainability, this, this, that, and the other.
And I work for an architecture firm.
And so a lot of that stuff's mandated into code right now.
So I find it funny that he's trying to implement all these policies on the whole 2030 plan like that, that all coexist with this kind of stuff.
And I think the point was is that buildings and stuff consume like 40% of, or we're supposedly contribute 40% of all greenhouse gases.
So I think that As far as my personal profession, it relates in some way to that.
That's very interesting.
You're a 32-degree mason.
If you can answer this, what does it take to be a 33-degree mason?
Well, to get to the 33rd degree like that, so that you have, like, there's...
Basically, there's the honorary and then the active.
The active actually is within the governing body of the Scottish Rite itself, and then the honorary.
Maybe someone has served and put in a lot of time.
Maybe they've done a lot of stuff for their local valley.
Different things like that.
The point is that it's kind of like one of those things of ambition.
If one was to seek after it, one's not going to get it.
But just by doing your part like that, if you're deemed worthy like that, then you ascend to this degree.
But for all intents and purposes, unless you're in the governing structure.
It's an honorary degree.
An honorary degree.
Now, I've heard there's degrees above the 33 degree.
Do you agree with that?
Sure, yeah.
That's called the Rite of Memphis Misrium.
And by U.S. standards today, it's considered a regular.
And so they have degrees up to 90-whatever.
And it's nothing that's really practiced very commonly here in the States.
And it originates in France.
And even over there, it's not all that popular.
Well, it's not that popular because I guess a lot of people don't know about it.
Because everybody that, if you talk to a lot of Masons, they seem to say 33 degrees is the top and there is no.
So why do people think that beyond the 33 degree is where it gets into Satanism?
Well, I don't know.
I think a lot of it is just like speculation and that sort of thing.
A lot of the ideas about Freemasonry and Satanism and things like that, they host this.
This guy, and I can't even think of his name right now, but it was back in the 1880s, and he put out a bunch of series of hoaxes like that.
And so a lot of the things that we have today that get repeated in the early teens and 20s...
It basically goes back to this thing where he, Leo Taxel, that's the guy's name, and he was a famous hoaxer.
And so he writes all these ridiculous things, mainly to shame the Catholic Church.
And ultimately, a lot of it's for nothing.
But, you know, what's funny is like with, you know, with the fictional narratives and stuff like that, sometimes they kind of carry on.
People pick up those ideas and threads and kind of run with them.
And to where we get to the point today where, you know, some people associate Freemasonry with Satanism.
And point of fact, it's really just like a club for self-improvement.
Yeah.
In your book, it actually talks about how the Masons want – it says – it's interesting, and I'm paraphrasing.
But it says in every major city, we want a Freemasonry lodge set up where we have wealthy men, men of influence in there together.
But they don't really know our true purpose properly.
What is the true purpose?
What are they referring to?
Well, so if you look at what the goals and objectives were for the Illuminati, it was to basically install a strict moral regimen on society to raise humanity up.
And the thing is...
They talk about in their correspondence and their ritual texts like that, that not every person is capable of doing this.
And really, within the context of controversy, the real legacy of the Illuminati is they had less of an influence in political matters and more within the secret society realm.
So what they were doing was, if they didn't start one of these lodges, they would take over a lodge basically by getting their people elected to the officers' positions.
And thereby securing the funds of the lodge because the Illuminati itself had a rather poor funding mechanism.
So it was essential, you know, one, to gain control of these lodges because it has a new field for recruiting for membership.
And even more importantly, the funds like that were now at their dispense.
And so it was a convenient institution, basically, for them to operate behind.
And also, like, you know, so there's a funding arm of it, and there's also, like, a recruiting arm of that for what they were trying to do there.
So the Masons, they have a better funding mechanism set up than the Illuminati.
They pass the hat more, essentially.
Yeah, so the Illuminati, really, they're descended from this group called the Rite of Strict Observance, which were strictly observing a Templar origin of Freemasonry.
And so basically what it gets down to is that the Strict Observance was more like a utopian top-down type thing, where they have high degree fees, high member dues, and so forth like that.
It's a very expensive thing to join, whereas the Illuminati were more of a utopian bottom-up type system, both operating within Freemasonry.
And so the Strict Observance goes into terminal decline with the death of their founder.
And so the Illuminati take advantage of the situation.
And that's where most...
That's very interesting.
I guess if you're allowed to even say this, how much does it cost to get to the 32 or 33 degree?
Well, it varies, right?
So when you're in Freemasonry today, you have what's called the symbolic lodge.
And the symbolic lodge, the first three degrees like that, it varies from place to place, but it probably wouldn't be any more than $200 per degree.
To become a master mason, you can join what's called appendant bodies.
And these appendant bodies, you know, it depends if you can go to York, right?
Scottish, right?
The Shrine and so forth.
And to join these things like that, they each have their own degree fee structures.
And so it varies on what you're trying to do.
But in addition to having degree fees, there's also like annual dues.
And it's not anything extreme or anything like that, you know, never more than like 100 bucks, generally speaking.
So, I mean, it's...
It's kind of like a country club of dues or something like that.
You have to pay an application fee and then you pay to maintain your membership.
I would like to intervene, Rob.
Yeah, go ahead.
Go ahead, Leo.
I mean, we are amongst historians, so Joseph knows me very well and knows that I talk correctly when I say, first of all, the strict observance which gave later birth to the Illuminati was, for many historians, a Jesuit creation.
And this is not my words, but the words of some very eminent Masonic historians.
The Illuminati itself have inside a character, which actually Joseph wrote about in the book, which is called Marotti, which later became secretary to a pope, which actually supposed to have helped them write their Masonic degrees of destruction.
The Illuminati, having said that, finished, ended up.
But what happened is that other people used...
The system.
And later on, Joseph knows very well, they tried to revive the Illuminati in the 1880s.
And later on, out of that circle of people was born the Ordo Tempi Orientis, in which arrived Aleister Crowley.
I mean, then things took a darker, much darker turn than at the time of Adam Bishop.
So it's erroneous to say there is an order of the Illuminati today.
That reflects Adam Weishaupt and that has this lineage continuously transmitted because then the Illuminati simply appeared under different names.
This is what has happened and it was actually denounced already in the 1880s by an author which was himself a very high initiate of the Rose Cross which was called Stanislao de Guaita who started to denounce what Maybe the intentions that Joseph has put through in his book, and even Joseph has mentioned at the beginning of his interview, are quite noble, some of the intentions of the Illuminati.
The problem is that after they got corrupted, and they used this system, and you can study the system of the Illuminati, because then it reflects many of the systems of power that were used later on.
Not only...
Within secret societies, but also by governments, like communism has a lot to do with the Illuminati, for example.
That's why Spartacus, the first communist group in Germany, was called Spartacus, because Spartacus was the initiatic name of Adam Beyschaft.
And so, and at the same time, even the two legations or those kind of secret societies involved with politics that gave birth to Nazism had a lot to do with the Illuminati because they took.
This idea that you can do politics in a secret society, while he said the Freemasons, like Joseph said, should be about self-improvement.
But having said that, there is also many rights of Freemasonry, and of course there is rights of Freemasonry that have nothing to do with what happens in the blue degrees in the symbolic lodge.
It's much more to do with occultism, and this occultism, and I'm sure, Joseph, you have to admit that, there is many...
Satanists that take advantage of Freemasonry to recruit other people, even in Texas these days.
I could believe that.
I got a couple quick questions for you guys.
Joseph, I would like to elaborate if you can on this one.
You guys there?
Okay.
Yeah, Joseph, do you want to elaborate real quick?
And then I got a couple quick questions that people are tweeting in that are really interested to know.
Sure thing, so I think you guys cut out just for the last couple seconds.
Can you repeat that again for me?
Yeah, go ahead, Leo.
Joseph, it was basically, if you could elaborate on the fact that many Satanists still these days are taking advantage of the Masonic structure to reclute for their infamous sects that have nothing to do with the craft, but have to be condemned.
And unfortunately, the grand lodges of Freemasonry...
Have not done so.
And even Robert Gilbert in his essay Apologies of Freemasons had to admit that they are in growing numbers, Satanists, people like Telemic from the OTO, they are infiltrating Freemasonry left, right and center and they are abusing it.
Now, this can't be permitted.
How can you rent a lodge of respectable people, a Freemason lodge, to a group that does a satanic mass with a naked woman on the altar?
This is...
Joseph, how do you respond to that?
No, he's right.
There are definitely occult-type orders like that that are definitely trying to operate within the context of Freemasonry, much in the same way that the Illuminati were looking for fields of recruitment within the same deal, and that's exactly a parallel-type situation, actually.
Okay, well, I got two quick questions for you.
When I was at Bilderberg, I was on top of a mountain actually shooting video footage of the hotel because we couldn't get anywhere near it because these guys were having a private meeting.
All the most rich and powerful people in the world.
While I was there, I had a 1776 hat on and there was a German guy who rode his bike all the way down to Austria to...
We'll see what was going on.
And he said, you know, 1776, that's when the Illuminati started.
Do you think there is a correlation between the Illuminati starting and the United States declaring its independence?
No, and so it's for separate reasons, right?
So it's two isolated fields.
So the first few years of the Illuminati's life, from 1776 to 1778, they only had 10 members, right?
So it's this college professor and his pupils that he's mentoring to make the secret school of wisdom.
Joseph, the fact is that the Rosicrucians were the Rioli Illuminati, as you know, and were called the Rioli Illuminati, and they preceded 1776, and they were very important in the foundation of the United States of America.
So while we can say that the order of Beyshaft have nothing to do, it's partly true, though, that the Rioli Illuminati, the ones who even helped out Beyshaft himself, because Kniegne...
Belong to those people.
We're the ones who helped funding the USA. So we have to be honest about certain things.
Yeah, which Illuminati are we talking about, right, Leo?
Absolutely.
That's why we have- To have people like me and Joseph explaining you this vast world, which takes really years to understand because it's so compartmentalized, so hierarchically speaking, very complex, which I think we are doing a great thing today during Money Bomb to help people understand more.
No, Joseph?
Yeah, well, hey, before we get to that, let me just announce a couple things since you mentioned the Money Bomb.
Steve from Las Vegas just donated $1,000.
He's entered into that drawing.
We're giving away a really nice gun from Head Down.
It's going to be for people who donate $1,000 or more getting into a raffle.
Also, we have Robert G., Betty M., and Gary R. Gary donated $500, and then Betty and Robert donated $1,000.
And we also have Brian, who went through PayPal, did $4,000.
Thank you very much, Brian S. Margaret M., another $1,000.
And then we've got a plethora of $500, $250, $200 donations.
And the rocket is getting fueled up to launch us to the stratosphere.
And actually, we're launching a satellite network with all this.
Here's another question from Twitter, guys.
This is for Joseph and Leo.
Do you expect that the 33rd degree Masons are going to have special access to get with the Pope and actually meet with him, confer him?
Do you think there will be some special meeting, maybe even some sort of mass, just with 33rd degree Masons?
And is the Pope a Mason?
I don't know that, honestly.
So that's for my own...
Okay, so if I can start off...
Go ahead.
No, he's probably not a Mason, and I'm pretty sure we'll have to stand in line just like everybody else.
But the thing is, it's like, you know...
You know, I think people make a lot more out of like the 33rd degree and being a Scottish Rite Mason.
It's not the elite glamorous club that people think it is.
It's just, you know, mainly it's like what we call like the University of Freemasonry.
So a lot of your academically funded people go there.
I can't say one thing.
Joseph knows it.
That within the 33rd degree, from time to time, they recruit a lot of knights.
Because, for example, in the Supreme Council here in Rome, The Pope has at least five knights of the Order of the Holy Sepulchre among the Supreme Council recognized by Washington.
So there is a structure here which interconnects not with Freemasonry.
Like Joseph said, Freemasonry is pretty innocent and teaches certain things, more in a theoretical way, like even when you become a 33rd degree, okay, you go through all these knighthoods, but they're not really the knighthoods that you go and take.
In a church in front of a priest or a bishop or a cardinal.
But in reality, when you arrive at the 33rd degree, many of these people from time to time get recruited to then become real knights.
And so I would like Joseph to elaborate on that.
Well, as far as in the U.S., that structure isn't really that much in place.
I mean, do people have parallel membership?
It's a possibility, not to my knowledge, and that's not really an area of my expertise, unfortunately.
But maybe in different places like that where there's still a structure for these type of things, then sure.
And maybe just not so much in the U.S. as far as my experience goes.
We can also say that the Supreme Councils have developed in a different way, and especially in the Latin countries, they're very connected to the Jesuits, as Joseph knows very well, in South America, they go within the lodges, they participate.
So there is a different relation in a country like the USA between the Scottish Rite and the Jesuits than there is in Latin countries.
In Cuba, for example...
It's possible that the whole of the 33th Supreme Council of Cuba will be invited by the Pope and will be there because there is a tradition, a link in Latin countries that also is linked to the fact that the Scottish Rite is linked to the Stuart, to the Jacobian tradition.
You can maybe elaborate more on this, Joseph.
Yeah, so there's a whole school of thought that says that a lot of the Scottish degree system like that was put into place as a Jacobite thesis.
Really, conclusively, it's not...
It's not officially there, but a lot of this also goes back to—it's a debate, really, even within scholarship today.
Only now, in this day and age of the digital technology and things that we have and the ability to interface with people are we able to study all these different degree systems.
But yeah, certainly there's Templar veins and stuff like that.
A lot of it goes back to Chevalier-Ramsey's oration in the 1730s, which a lot of people say is what created a lot of the Scottish high-degree systems anyways.
But, yeah, there's veins of these things inside there like that.
But as far as conclusively like that, I'm not aware of, like, inclusive evidence one way or the other.
And so really right now, like, this is a period of growth and exploration, and, you know, it remains to be seen.
Joseph, I'm looking in your book right now.
It's called The Secret School of Wisdom.
Here's the secret instructions for those tasked with recruiting new members to the O, which I think means the order.
Mainly, it just seems to be you find a guy, you start talking to him, you start trying to steer conversations to certain ways to get him to think he's better off to be in with a group than out by himself, which kind of goes against the rugged individualist, I guess, mystique that we have here in the United States.
I guess in your book, what is probably the...
The strangest, most out-of-the-ordinary type of things that the Illuminati does do to get new members.
Well, so what you're looking at right there is kind of in the lower levels.
I think that's in the novice degrees where you're looking at probably some instructions down there.
And so basically...
You've got multiple points you can enter the Illuminati.
If you have no experience at all, like you're a young man, maybe between the ages of 15, 18 years old, something like that, you're looking to get a formal education, you're approached in that manner.
And so there's all these different procedures and protocols as you go throughout the book that show you how they would bring someone like that in.
Now, if you have Masonic experience, or maybe say you're past 18 years of age, or maybe you're just a very mature 17-year-old, you can bypass this novice phase, right?
And really in the novice phase, people don't have a lot of interaction except for the person who brings them in, which is their insinuator.
And so basically you've got multiple ways that you can enter the Illuminati.
You can enter basically as a kid for all intents and purposes, 15 to 18 years old, like that.
You're groomed really closely.
You can enter as an 18 to 25 in the Minerva Assembly.
Or if you're a Freemason, you can just enter in a Masonic Lodge that's affiliated with the Illuminati.
So there's three separate tracks for ways to get into the Illuminati with three different sets of protocols of ways to approach people.
You see what I'm saying?
It's kind of nuanced.
Right.
Oh yeah, it definitely seems nuanced.
There's nothing overt like, hey, you want to join this?
They open up their jacket and it's a pyramid with an eyeball on top of it.
Just go on in, join the club.
Which, I guess, gets to my next question.
How big is the modern Freemasonry movement compared with the modern Illuminati movement?
And how much, I guess, crossbreeding is there?
This is a question for both of you guys.
Okay, do you want to go first, Leo, or do you want me to go first?
Well, I would say that maybe I will give a different depiction of the whole thing, probably from yours.
So, you want to start?
Go ahead, Leo.
You're on camera.
Go ahead.
Yeah, go ahead, Leo.
My idea is this.
The modern group, first of all, the Illuminati didn't need the same kind of financing as Freemasonry because they always had this, at the time at least, these aristocratic leaders that will always put some money towards this kind of projects, these messeners, these characters.
But in the modern times, then they are the lobbyists who do the same thing.
So basically, secretive groups like this, who are not regular freemasonry, but are something else, they finance themselves very well because they can ask to their members sums like $50,000 a year.
It's like the membership of the Bohemian Club.
I mean, these kind of groups are elitist groups.
So, of course, they charge people very much for their membership, like Club 33 does in Disneyland.
And so, I mean, it happens everywhere.
That's where you get to drink, right?
In Disneyland?
That's where you get to get a beer, I guess.
You hang out with Goofy and drink a few beers.
Yeah, yeah.
Anyway, continue, Leo.
Sorry.
It's actually a very exclusive club, the Club 33. It is not really like you can find it.
I find it by chance in Tokyo, the entrance, and I sneaked in.
But, I mean, it is a very exclusive club.
We can say that though the Adam Weishaupt line of the Illuminati as such faded out, many other groups adopted these techniques which Joseph is depicting in the book, which have been very useful to grab new members, to manipulate the power structure, and also to aim for power, which is terrestrial power, money, military power, and all the rest, plotting towards something.
That's something that we as citizens don't like.
And even the average Mason doesn't like.
So, of course, we have to distance the two things.
This is what I can say about this whole palavra, as you would say in English.
And I think that Joseph will agree with me that definitely Adam Weishaupt and his bunch were probably Less sinister, less sinister than the people that we have today going in that kind of circuits, like, for example, the skull and bones or other groups.
Yeah, go ahead, Joseph.
Yeah, I was going to say, I totally agree with what he's saying here.
Really more to the point that, as far as like...
What the Illuminati were doing, you know, they really were trying to basically like raise up humanity and do it through education, right?
And so instead of overthrowing governments, it was more like, you know, educate the people that surround the people that make influencing decisions in society and influence things that way.
So it's like a sphere of influence, right?
So within that context, they're not controversial.
But like I said before, within the context of Freemasonry, that was where they were really doing their most subversive type things.
Well, what about the numbers?
How big, like, U.S., worldwide, what are the numbers we're looking at?
Because, you know, these are secret societies, so, I mean, is there a way to even, do they do censuses?
Do we know how big these groups are?
Well, you hear numbers like 5 million, 6 million Freemasons worldwide like that, and I don't have any good tables, and I don't think anybody else does really, because each lodge itself like that, like a Grand Lodge of Texas or a Grand Lodge of Missouri or something like this, they operate independently of each other like that.
So it's the records for the state of Texas, for the state of Missouri, for Italy, for whatever state in Germany that you happen to be in, or France, and so forth.
And there's probably good averages and stuff like that, but as far as the occult groups like that versus the regular groups like that, it's probably less than a percent or two of the total global membership.
And so if we say five or six million people, maybe a couple percentage points of that.
Would be the darker side.
I can add one thing.
For example, I was once said by an eminent Masonic historian in England that out of the 400,000 members that the craft had there in England, I think in Scotland and in North Island, whatever, I mean, I mean, only maybe 50 people were really conscious of the whole structure and also were knowledgeable and really illuminated.
And those 50 people are the ones that count.
Here we're not talking about thousands or millions of people to change the world.
You only need to have those few people who are in the right academic circles.
They have the right access to the lobbyists and they have, of course, the money to do things.
And maybe from some aristocratic background, like we know very well that the United Grand Lodge of England is connected to the English royal family and that the Grand Master is the cousin of the Queen.
I mean, and everybody in the world bows down to the recognition of the United Grand Lodge of England.
Isn't that true, Joseph?
Oh, yeah.
So a lot of the, as far as the U.S. goes, and a lot of pretty much most of the, what we call like regular Grand Lodges, they recognize authority or some kind of direct descendancy from, you know, from the United Grand Lodge of England.
Now, what was interesting, like this summer, I was doing this.
Worked for a policies and studies organization, and we were in Paris having a global Masonic conference.
And what was funny is one of these speakers there gave a speech on regularity.
And, you know, he was a French brother.
And so to paraphrase it, basically he says that, you know, regularity is BS because, you know, why is it that it should come from one place or from another?
You know, that's his personal opinion.
But as far as what Leo says, that most Grand Lodges track their membership back to United Grand Lodge of England.
That's true.
That's, you know, that's the standard.
Well, I think that's a good note to end it on because who was it that said, I think it was John F. Kennedy said, we condemn secret societies and their secret orders and rules.
And he was a Catholic.
Interestingly enough, now we have the Pope who's a Catholic coming to the United States.
We're coming to the end of our time.
I definitely want to get you guys both on again.
This was, I think, just scratching the surface.
You can catch Leo's work.
Check out his book at CCC Publishing.
And that is cccpublishing.com.
If you want to check out Joseph's book, it's on Amazon, The Secret School of Wisdom.
You can also check it out at illuminatiregalia.com.
Leo's book is Pope Francis, The Last Pope.
I've barely scratched the surface on The Secret School of Wisdom.
Very interesting.
We've been showing you guys footage.
I guess Joseph spent five years of his life helping put this together from translations that were done in Bavarian German.
And we'll get more into that definitely next time.
Unfortunately, we are running out of time.
I want to thank you guys for joining us on the Money Bomb.
This has been great.
Go ahead, Leo.
What do you got to say?
Yeah, well, I'm coming up in January with a book that will help people that are on the path to understand really the structure with The Confessions of an Illuminati, Volume 1, which also, of course, loads the work of Joseph Wages, but wants to go beyond talking only about the bishop, the Illuminati, and wants to make you understand this complete structure.
So I invite you to read it when it comes out, and thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Joseph, we'll talk to you soon.
I think if we do this again, though, we have to do it after midnight again.
Maybe we'll do a midnight to 3 a.m.
talk because I think this is the kind of stuff that people who get on the radio and listen to stuff late at night really enjoy.
It had a very coast-to-coast vibe.
To it, but a lot more fast-paced.
You guys are ready to talk and ready to share your knowledge with people, and I appreciate that.
Appreciate you for coming on.
Well, thanks for having me, Rob.
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