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| Well, when Alex Jones is on the Piers Morgan Show Monday night, the third segment was supposed to be a debate with Piers Morgan and Alan Dershowitz against Alex Jones. | |
| Even with a stacked debate like that, they decided that they didn't feel comfortable having Alex represent himself. | |
| And that really shouldn't be surprising for anybody that knows the history of Alan Dershowitz. | |
| Even though he's billed as a lawyer, a civil liberties lawyer, and even though he is a Harvard law professor and a darling of the mainstream media when it comes to getting legal sources, Alan Dershowitz has exhibited, over time, a real antipathy towards people getting their due process, or even hearing out the other side. | |
| He's put out as a civil libertarian, as a legal expert, but, you know, a Stanford article, interestingly enough, back in a few years ago, when he was talking about torture, immediately after 9-11, they quoted this, and they introduced him this way. | |
| They said, Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz One of the country's leading civil libertarians suggests creating a mechanism where U.S. | |
| judges could approve domestic torture warrants if they're convinced such tactics could thwart an imminent attack. | |
| Now, I don't know how you'd call somebody that advocates something like that a civil libertarian. | |
| But we have somebody here who is also a Harvard Law School graduate, who is an international lawyer, and who really is a civil libertarian. | |
| We have Francis Boyle on the line, and we're going to talk to him about some of Alan Dershowitz's perspectives and see who's a little bit more dangerous, whether it's Alan Dershowitz or Alex Jones. | |
| Francis, thank you for joining us. | |
| Well, thank you very much for having me on and my best listening audience. | |
| What did you think the other night about what Alan Dershowitz said about Alex Jones being somebody who was dangerous and an exhibit of somebody who ought to have their guns taken away? | |
| Well, first, I thought it was completely unfair that the brick twit nitwit Pierce Morgan did not permit Alex to debate Dershowitz as the event had been billed, putting aside the fact that it was all stacked against Alex. | |
| Second, Dershowitz's call for Alex to be stripped of his guns clearly violated the Second Amendment, the Fifth Amendment due process clause, and effectively could constitute a bill of attainder against Alex in violation of the Constitution of Congress, or the President were to do something like that directly. | |
| Fourth, Dershowitz is well known in the legal profession, indeed notorious, as the foremost advocate for torture. | |
| So in watching Dershowitz's comments, I thought, oh sure, he's happy to strip Alex of his guns in violation of the Constitution. | |
| And then torture, Alex, for disagreeing with him on this and other issues. | |
| No more than that. | |
| Exactly. | |
| You mentioned torture. | |
| There was an article that Dershowitz wrote called Make Torture an Option. | |
| Let me just read a quick quote here from that. | |
| He says in it, the real debate is whether such torture should take place outside our legal system or within it. | |
| The answer to this seems clear. | |
| If we're to have torture, it should be authorized by the law. | |
| Does that make it morally or ethically right to authorize it by the law? | |
| Well, it can't be authorized by the law. | |
| I mean, it's preposterous, and Dershowitz knows it. | |
| He's just advocating torture and aiding, abetting, and encouraging torture. | |
| This is well known. | |
| And basically, any law professor advocating torture is a disgrace to my profession. | |
| Yes. | |
| And right now you have six of them on the faculty at Harvard Law School, including Dershowitz. | |
| One final point I wanted to make about this matter is that we all know Morgan is sort of a de facto agent of the British government, the British Empire, Alex took care of that. | |
| What people don't know about Dershowitz is that he works for the Israeli government. | |
| So you had two foreign agents on that program against Alex, the Patriot, standing up for the Constitution. | |
| Dershowitz admitted publicly that he is a member of a Mossad committee. | |
| that approves the assassination of Palestinians, which is a war crime in its own right. | |
| So basically, he works with and for the Israeli government. | |
| So effectively, Alex was sort of like Daniel going into the lion's den there, debating one agent for the British government and another agent for the Israeli government. | |
| And standing up for the United States Constitution. | |
| That was my thought, and I did want to make this point. | |
| And in fact, I've locked horns repeatedly with Dershowitz. | |
| He does the legal hatchet work here in the United States for the Israeli government and has done that Since Gene Rostow died, his predecessor, who is at the Yale Law School and I locked horns and debated with Rostow before Dershowitz. | |
| So we had two foreign agents there that Alex was up against. | |
| Yes, yes. | |
| And before we leave... An American citizen and a law professor who has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution of the law of the United States. | |
| I simply wanted to stand up with Alex against these two foreign agents, as I see it. | |
| Thank you, thank you. | |
| I appreciate that. | |
| I appreciate... | |
| You're standing up against things like torture. | |
| Listen, this is from March 4th, 2003, and he was on CNN at that time as well, with Wolf Blitzer. | |
| And listen to what Dershowitz said about torture again, because this makes it a little bit more specific. | |
| Sometimes we talk about things in the abstract, but he makes it a little bit more specific, and he's comfortable with this. | |
| He says, I would talk about non-lethal torture, say a sterilized needle underneath the nail, which would violate Geneva Accords, but, you know, countries all over the world violate Geneva Accords. | |
| They do it secretly and hypothetically, the way the French did in Algeria. | |
| If we ever came close to doing it, and we don't know whether this is such a case, I think we would want to do it with accountability and openly, and not adopt the way of the hypocrite. | |
| So, evidently, he thinks that just by, you know, openly declaring that they're going to do criminal, immoral, illegal, unconstitutional acts, that that somehow sanctifies it. | |
| That's the kind of arguments we've gotten from Dershowitz in the past. | |
| Well, they teach this at Harvard Law School now these days with six professors advocating torture and other professors advocating not only the kangaroo courts on Guantanamo, but that the kangaroo court system on Guantanamo be opened here in the United States of America and applied to United States citizens. | |
| It's a real disgrace what's going on at Harvard Law School, but Dersch has always been in the Yes. | |
| forefront of this at Harvard Law School after 9-11 and nationwide and indeed | |
| international. Yes, there's a couple other things I want to cover here too | |
| that Dershowitz has done but what you just said here is very important. | |
| They're going to take these things that we see being done in Israel against | |
| Palestinians that violate human rights and the rule of law and justice that | |
| They're advocating these policies, these actions over there. | |
| And they're getting the United States government to participate in it, these people who are Harvard lawyers or whatever. | |
| And they're going to bring that home to America, aren't they? | |
| That's correct. | |
| And if you have a look, for example, at the National Defense Authorization Act, and Obama was after me at Harvard Law School. | |
| He knows better. | |
| The National Defense Authorization Act from last year repeated this year. | |
| Obama insisted That U.S. | |
| citizens living here in the United States, let alone abroad, be included in the NDAA provision permitting the military to pick up and detain and disappear United States citizens into their gulag, whether here in Guantanamo or Afghanistan, or who knows, whatever. | |
| Second, we now see under Obama the massive proliferation of drones going to take place in American airspace, and we know for a fact that these droners have already practiced destroying cars on United States highways. | |
| It's clear what's coming. | |
| They're going to start to arm these drones. | |
| Yes, absolutely. | |
| Obama has his own murder list generated by Brennan, now he nominated to head the CIA, and authorized and approved by his lawyer, Harold Koh, going back to the Yale Law School, taking Rostow's place. | |
| Uh, and this, uh, murder list, uh, he meets every, uh, Tuesday to decide whom he's going to murder. | |
| Uh, and then, uh, sets out and murders them, including now three United States, uh, citizens. | |
| Uh, this has had me on before, uh, to criticize, uh, President Bush. | |
| Well, even President Bush did not irrigate to himself the power to murder United States citizens. | |
| And Dershowitz is a big supporter of Obama. | |
| He is a big honcho in the Democratic Party. | |
| Indeed, Dershowitz publicly bragged that at the 2008 DNC convention, That nominated Obama to become president the first time. | |
| He, Dershowitz, prevented former President Carter from speaking. | |
| It was his doing. | |
| Because President Carter had criticized Israel. | |
| Now I know the last time they did let President Carter have a few words to say, but that was it. | |
| So Dershowitz has this influence and this power in the Democratic Party and with the Obama administration. | |
| So he's an extremely dangerous person. | |
| There's no question about it. | |
| And to be clear, the reason why he didn't want Carter to speak is because Carter is not to someone who, like Dershowitz, is an extremist Zionist who is really pushing these policies for... I mean, look at his opposition to Chuck Hagel, for example. | |
| He's come out to strongly oppose that because he doesn't think that Chuck Hagel is authoritarian enough on behalf of Israel. | |
| He just didn't see, you know, Carter giving a green light, anything that Israel wanted to do, so now he's opposing him, even within democratic circles. | |
| I dealt with Senator Hagel for an hour on a matter, and I was impressed with the man. | |
| That doesn't mean I agree with everything he has to say or he has done. | |
| But what really impressed me was his Senate office was littered with pictures of his combat service in Vietnam, and I would think if he becomes Secretary of Defense We will see some degree of restraint exercised on the outright war-mongers there. | |
| Know the word for them. | |
| In the White House and the Central Intelligence Agency, certainly the State Department as well under Secretary Clinton, but I don't know about Kerry. | |
| You know, Kerry was a Vietnam veteran himself, and perhaps he will exercise some restraint. | |
| Well, Dershowitz certainly isn't a voice for restraint. | |
| Going back, you mentioned the NDAA. | |
| Here's Exhibit 2. | |
| This is from Homeland Security Affairs, which is a publication of the Navy back in October of 2008. | |
| And here's a quote from Dershowitz. | |
| He advocated, and the title of the article was, Preventive Detention in the War on Terror. | |
| Now this is three years before the NDAA, and this is how the article begins. | |
| No civilized nation confronting serious danger has ever relied exclusively on criminal convictions for past offenses. | |
| Every country has introduced, by one means or another, a system of preventive or administrative detention for persons who are thought to be dangerous, but who might not be convictable under the conventional criminal law. | |
| That pretty much sums up the essence of the NDAA, right? | |
| If you don't think that you can get a, uh, you're suspicious of somebody, but you don't think that you can convict them, uh, so, you know, you just basically, uh, preventively detain them. | |
| That's, that's the essence of the NDAA, isn't it? | |
| Well, that's correct. | |
| And as a matter of fact, Dershowitz has publicly attacked me for my support of the Palestinians, so I'm sure I'd be near the top of his list to be preventively detained in violation of the Constitution. | |
| And now I'm sure that Alex is on his list as well. | |
| We have to understand Israel has engaged in this policy of preventive detention against Palestinians, clear-cut violation of the four Geneva Conventions of 1949, a war crime. | |
| But Britain has as well. | |
| Speaking of Piers Morgan, the Brit, Britain had pioneered preventive detention. | |
| Including and especially in Northern Ireland, where the Preventive Detention Act is still in effect, though not being applied, but can be resurrected at any time. | |
| And we all know the massive abuses that preventive detention resulted in in Northern Ireland, Including torture of Irish by British forces. | |
| I've been over there myself and have interviewed and documented torture victims as I have Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza who were preventively detained and Uh, tortured by Israel. | |
| So, uh, uh, Morgan, uh, and, and Dershowitz are two peas in the pod. | |
| The, uh, British Empire and the Israeli Empire. | |
| Uh, and they're Alex's, uh, standing up for the American Republic or what, what remains of it. | |
| Yes, yes. | |
| And it's not even strictly American what we're looking at. | |
| I mean, this even goes back to, you know, English law that preceded America. | |
| I mean, this type of indefinite detention without trial, that goes back to the Star Chamber that they had in England. | |
| That goes back and takes us beyond the Magna Carta and right to trial by jury. | |
| These are things that, you know, even people in Britain had a long tradition of before it came to America. | |
| It overturns everything that has basically defined a civil government. | |
| That is correct. | |
| At least going back to the Magna Carta and the Barons dealing with King John and Runnymede, who are correct. | |
| Unfortunately, after 9-11, and this has been documented by Amnesty International, headquartered in London, Tony Blair has effectively turned Britain into a police state. | |
| So, I don't think we need someone like Morgan coming over here and trying to promote these anti-American values. | |
| Yes, he does have a First Amendment right to speak under the U.S. | |
| Constitution, but he is being put on television, and television is regulated by the Federal Communications Act. | |
| So, I think someone should look into that issue. | |
| Can CNN put someone out there calling for violations of the United States Constitution under the Federal Communications Act? | |
| Now, the problem is Obama has effectively gutted any regulation of the FCC by the FCC because all the news media supports him. | |
| Yes. | |
| So that's the dilemma we are in. | |
| Yes, you do have a First Amendment, but when it comes to television, television is not like the print. | |
| And there are narrower rules and exceptions applied to television as opposed to print media. | |
| Well, and of course, in Britain, a lot of Americans are not familiar with Piers Morgan's past, In Britain, he kind of made a name for himself running a | |
| kind of a National Enquirer type of tabloid paper, and their stock and trade was wiretapping, | |
| you know, illegally, celebrities' phones and, you know, breaking into their answer machines | |
| and that sort of thing. | |
| So, you know, someone like Piers Morgan, who has that kind of a past, I'm sure he's perfectly | |
| comfortable with the kind of violations of civil liberties that we see Obama proposing | |
| and in fact doing with the reauthorization of FISA and the Utah data center that's coming | |
| I mean they are doing wireless Uh, warrantless wiretaps on everybody, not just American citizens, everybody in the entire planet, essentially. | |
| Remember, Britain does not have a Bill of Rights. | |
| I mean, we fought a revolution against the British in part for that Bill of Rights. | |
| amendments to the Constitution, including the Second Amendment, the Fourth Amendment, the Fifth Amendment, and the Sixth Amendment. | |
| And torture is clearly prohibited by the Eighth Amendment, which Dershowitz has called for, and as I said before, the British have certainly practiced in Northern Ireland. | |
| Exactly. | |
| And one of the things that, you know, one of the tactics of Piers Morgan and the people who are trying to destroy the Second Amendment at this point Is to show the bloody shirt, to show the grief of the parents, to show people who've had children that they've lost with these shootings. | |
| Yet they never show pictures of victims of Obama's drone assassination campaigns. | |
| And the fact that they do double-tap raids, that they will hit an area, wait for people to rush in to rescue, and then hit it a second time. | |
| I mean, they're not concerned about collateral damage. | |
| They're not concerned about the number of children that they destroy, that they murder and maim. | |
| And Piers Morgan is happy to have his picture taken with President Obama, but he thinks that someone who passionately defends Our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, is somehow a dangerous person, perhaps dangerous to his power base. | |
| And this is something, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, back in November 15th, this last November 15th, in the New York Times, Dershowitz authored an article called the Rule of Proportionality. | |
| Let me read to you from that, a quote here. | |
| He says, it's sometimes argued that targeted assassination should never be permitted because it's a form of extrajudicial killing. | |
| This view is absurd. | |
| And he says, the alternatives to targeted killing are either to allow terrorists free reign and targeting civilians, or to engage in under-targeted military actions that are likely to cause more casualties. | |
| Well, that's clearly not true. | |
| That's the false dichotomy that was presented to Ron Paul by Newt Gingrich and others who said, you know, you're either going to preemptively arrest and torture people or we're going to have a nuclear bomb in a city. | |
| And as Ron Paul has pointed out, as we all know, there have been people who have been accused of being terrorists who've had their day in court. | |
| They've been convicted. | |
| Other people have been accused of being terrorists and had their day in court and been exonerated. | |
| But they don't want us to have that sort of thing. | |
| They approve of Obama's targeted assassination list, which we see his longtime approval of, as you said, in Israel. | |
| Right, even Amnesty International has condemned the targeted assassination as extrajudicial executions. | |
| And as a matter of fact, I spent four years on the board of Amnesty International USA, And then U.S. | |
| Army Field Manual 2710, the Laws of Land Warfare, that is still valid and binding on U.S. | |
| Armed Forces, including President Obama, as Commander-in-Chief, prohibits assassination. | |
| And in fact, that prohibition in U.S. | |
| Army Field Manual today goes all the way back to President Lincoln's General Orders number 100, Issued during the U.S. | |
| Civil War, prohibiting assassination outright, and saying it was nothing more than murder and pure barbarism. | |
| So if President Lincoln prohibited during the Civil War, and that has been U.S. | |
| policy since April of 1863, I think it's been in there for good cause, and it should be in there for good cause. | |
| And as I said, murder and assassination also violates the U.S. | |
| War Crimes Act. | |
| So we have Dershowitz advocating war crimes, and President Obama himself committing war crimes. | |
| And indeed, when war crimes such as this are widespread or systematic, and in this case they are both, and the latest figure is Obama's probably murdered 176 children, they become crimes against humanity. | |
| Which, in terms of severity, come after, at the top of the list, crimes against peace, then genocide, and crimes against humanity. | |
| Just to give you an idea of the the severity of this offense, and he's murdering U.S. | |
| citizens, and indeed, he sent his Attorney General Holder, who has just opted in, upped up for more | |
| time as Attorney General, out to Northwestern Law School to publicly advocate and support | |
| murdering United States citizens. | |
| And the faculty at Northwestern Law School knew full well that that is why Holder was coming out | |
| there to explain and try to justify the Obama policy of murdering U.S. citizens. | |
| They invited him out there to do this, and when Holder got at Northwestern Law School, Even though they knew full well what he was going to say, they gave him a standing ovation before he spoke and after he spoke. | |
| Now, that shows you how rotten, corrupt, and despicable American legal education has become after 9-11, under the influence of people like Dershowitz and Harvard Law School, Yale Law School, which has just hired Harold Kobach, He'll be returning. | |
| He has justified the murder and assassination of drone policy for Obama. | |
| Indeed, Coe is the only lawyer for Obama who would publicly testify in favor of his unconstitutional war against Libya. | |
| No one else would do it, just Coe. | |
| And indeed, the Association of American Law Schools That represents every law school and law professor in America just had co-speak at their annual conference in New Orleans and gave their keynote address on globalization and the law. | |
| I didn't bother going. | |
| Why would I dignify listening to a war criminal who has justified Obama's drone strikes up to and including murdering United States citizens? | |
| It really is frightening, and as you say, these law schools, these professors who are advocating these types of any means justifies their ends as they define their ends. | |
| And I just want the American public to understand that people who have advocated this type of criminal activity abroad and carried it out, that they have absolutely no compunction about coming to the United States and doing the same thing against American citizens. | |
| We have now the people in suits and ties who are now advocating these types of criminal | |
| actions and calling themselves lawyers. | |
| We're going to see this type of thing come here and I just hope that people on the left | |
| who value civil liberties, because there are a lot of people on the left who value civil | |
| liberties but they just don't understand the second amendment. | |
| I would hope that they would understand that the same people who advocate torture, who advocate indefinite detention without trial, who advocate extrajudicial killings and murder lists and assassinations from the air, I would hope that they would not want to give a monopoly of force To the people who do this. | |
| You know, it was, in my understanding, the Second Amendment, and we can read the founders and see they were afraid, as you said before, of governments that violate individual liberties. | |
| And, you know, the idea that the citizenry would be armed was set up to be a check against that. | |
| Well, certainly if you read the Second Amendment, that's what it says. | |
| Part of a well-regulated militia. | |
| There it is, and the militias were there to protect the peoples of the state. | |
| Indeed, at one point, there were 16 state constitutions. | |
| That guaranteed the right of everyone living in those states to wage revolution against the state government if they should become tyrannical. | |
| That is no longer the case today. | |
| The powers that be giving the Increasing conservatism of the American empire have slowly gotten rid of most of those state constitutions. | |
| But at one point, there were 16 states in the Union that did guarantee the right of the people to wage a revolution against their own state governments in the event that they became tyrannical. | |
| Yes, yes. | |
| And as you've pointed out, and others have pointed out, Alex Jones has said it, Ron Paul has said it, every empire eventually turns in on itself and destroys the Republic. | |
| And we have, under the advocacy of people like Dershowitz, who have advocated our imperial stances and our foreign policy and that sort of thing, We've seen all these kinds of human rights abuses, illegal activity. | |
| They've not only tolerated it, but advocated it. | |
| And now we're going to see that kind of thing happen here. | |
| And one of the few deterrents to that is an armed citizenry. | |
| And the armed citizenry does not have to, as Jefferson said, the beauty of the Second Amendment is you only need it when they come to take it away. | |
| And, you know, fortunately we have not had to use that. | |
| And they're a wonderful deterrent to force, as long as the people own them. | |
| They're a deterrent, and I would hate to see that taken away. | |
| Well, we're out of time, but I really do appreciate you giving us a real legal perspective on real civil liberties, and I appreciate your standing and your advocacy for human rights, not just for Americans, but for Palestinians, for people all over the world. | |
| You know, when we give up on other people, we give up on ourselves as well. | |
| Well, that's correct. | |
| And one thing history teaches us is that if the United States government gets away of violating the civil rights, civil liberties, human rights of what we call aliens, foreigners, it's only a question of time before they turn it against the American people themselves. | |
| It's only a question of time. | |
| History teaches this. | |
| And so we have to stand up for ourselves, as well as people in other countries who are being subjected to illegal and oftentimes criminal policies by our own government. | |
| And unfortunately, Dershowitz certainly has always been on the other side of these issues. | |
| Yes, you're absolutely right. | |
| Well, thank you, Francis Boyle, for being on the right side and for standing up and doing it with clarity. | |
| Thank you very much for being our guest today. | |
| Well, thank you. | |
| Please give my best regards to Alex. | |
| Will do. | |
| Thank you. | |
| Bye-bye. | |
| Well, we've got another interview coming up here with us. | |
| This is Rob Dew talking to Professor James Tracy from Florida Atlantic University. | |
| Now, Professor Tracy has an interesting perspective on Sandy Hook and some things that he believes just don't add up. |
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