Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux - Boundaries with my PARENTS? CALL IN SHOW
Aired: 2026-05-12
Duration: 01:54:04


=== Ghosting Family Twice a Year (15:14) ===

[00:00:00]  This is a public call, all free of charge.
[00:00:03]  But if you could do me a favor and just stay off names and places, I would be thrilled.
[00:00:09]  For sure.
[00:00:10]  You're great to do these.
[00:00:11]  I really appreciate it again.
[00:00:12]  Yeah, sure.
[00:00:13]  So I'm a fifth time caller, 15 year listener.
[00:00:17]  Sounds crazy.
[00:00:19]  I always love our discussions.
[00:00:21]  I left my family of origin two and a half years ago by writing my mom and dad each a short letter.
[00:00:29]  It was pretty.
[00:00:31]  Succinct to the point.
[00:00:33]  My mom reaches out maybe once or twice a year, usually via email, can be a bit nasty sometimes or make passive aggressive comments.
[00:00:42]  Dad reaches out honestly a lot, like via email, monthly, sometimes more often than that, usually begging for contacts as he's going to therapy.
[00:00:54]  He's provided proof of that recently, but none of them ever address anything really that I wrote in the letter.
[00:01:03]  It's just about them, how they feel, how they're feeling empty.
[00:01:07]  They want to see their grandkids.
[00:01:08]  What will your children think when they grow up?
[00:01:11]  What will you say when they think about their grandfather?
[00:01:13]  They're afraid they'll never know me.
[00:01:16]  You're killing me.
[00:01:17]  I can't live like this.
[00:01:19]  So I'm curious your take on this, especially within the context of my parents getting older, inevitable health issues, possible financial things.
[00:01:29]  And then there's some other people in my extended family.
[00:01:31]  Again, I don't talk to them.
[00:01:33]  That's been a long time, but funerals, my grandma's funeral was a couple weeks ago.
[00:01:40]  I want to be authentic and guard my peace, but I also don't want to have any regrets.
[00:01:48]  So, yeah, I guess not that I'm second guessing myself, but I just wanted to do a little quick sanity check, given that my parents, you know, they do reach out still.
[00:02:02]  Well, I appreciate that.
[00:02:03]  And again, I'm.
[00:02:04]  Sorry about the whole situation.
[00:02:06]  That's very, very difficult, very unpleasant.
[00:02:09]  So, just refresh me and I guess the listeners as well about the backstory.
[00:02:17]  Yeah.
[00:02:17]  So, I'm an only child.
[00:02:21]  My parents kind of split up.
[00:02:23]  They were married.
[00:02:24]  They split up when I was five, got back together when I was like nine.
[00:02:29]  It was very volatile.
[00:02:32]  And then they divorced for good when I was 11 or 12.
[00:02:36]  And then I lived with my mom and she went off the rails.
[00:02:40]  I went through a lot of really horrible stuff, horrible, you know, verbal, psychological abuse.
[00:02:47]  My dad didn't do anything to protect me from it.
[00:02:49]  And then it all really culminated in me getting like this like horrible dissociative, like actual disorder.
[00:03:00]  It's called depersonalization.
[00:03:01]  So it's like basically I felt like it was almost happened in an instant.
[00:03:05]  I was.
[00:03:07]  Living somewhere in my apartment, looking out the window, and then like something just snapped in my mind.
[00:03:12]  I was, you know, I was, it was in 2011.
[00:03:16]  And, you know, it led me on a long journey to figure out like, how did this happen?
[00:03:22]  Right.
[00:03:22]  Like, this is, you know, an emotional sickness, probably.
[00:03:25]  It's like the flip side of enlightenment or something.
[00:03:29]  And it took a very long time, but two and a half years ago, towards the end of 2023, I wrote both of my parents a letter kind of explaining that.
[00:03:40]  And, you know, my best hope for recovery is to guard my peace, be authentic, and just leave and focus on my own recovery.
[00:03:49]  And, you know, I made a miraculous recovery.
[00:03:51]  It was chronic 24-7.
[00:03:54]  I mean, like living in hell from 2011 all the way until probably early 2024.
[00:04:00]  And just going through a lot of your shows, your content, therapy, EMDR, all sorts of different things, journaling.
[00:04:09]  Everything just lifted.
[00:04:11]  And I don't want to go back.
[00:04:12]  I'm not going to go back to that, but that's the backstory.
[00:04:16]  Got it.
[00:04:16]  Okay.
[00:04:17]  And you're married with how many kids?
[00:04:19]  I have two kids, two young kids.
[00:04:21]  Congratulations.
[00:04:22]  That's lovely.
[00:04:23]  How wonderful.
[00:04:25]  And you said they're in contact with you, your parents, like once or twice a year.
[00:04:31]  Is that right?
[00:04:32]  So, my mom, it's like once or twice a year.
[00:04:37]  Okay.
[00:04:37]  So, sorry, we were just picking up with your father, who contacts you a lot more than your mother.
[00:04:45]  That's right.
[00:04:45]  Yeah.
[00:04:46]  So, he emails me a lot.
[00:04:48]  They don't have my number, they don't have my address.
[00:04:50]  And although I blocked their email address, like it doesn't go.
[00:04:56]  There's no way to stop it from, like, at least hitting the trash folder.
[00:05:00]  So sometimes when I'm in there browsing, yeah, I see that he's emailed me and it's just the same exact message every time.
[00:05:11]  And, you know, it's like I feel different things when I read.
[00:05:16]  Sometimes I usually feel just disgust, like, stop at this point.
[00:05:22]  Sometimes I get angry, but usually it's just like this visceral disgust, like, you need to stop.
[00:05:27]  But then again, you know, In my letters, and I go back and think, well, I didn't explicitly say don't contact me.
[00:05:33]  But then, you know, I looked at the letters, and, you know, now that I'm a few years out of it, and I wrote them when I was still in that dissociated, very, very hyper numb state, you know, they were all business.
[00:05:46]  The letters, you know, they weren't, the feelings weren't jumping out of the page.
[00:05:49]  It was just kind of like, here's what happened, and here's why.
[00:05:51]  What do you mean by business letters?
[00:05:53]  Well, the tone of it was like all business.
[00:05:56]  Like I just kind of listed what happened.
[00:05:59]  Hey, here's the reasons that I'm leaving.
[00:06:01]  You know, my family of origin.
[00:06:04]  I won't be returning to, you know, the state that they lived in.
[00:06:09]  Here's why it's my best hope for recovery from all this stuff.
[00:06:12]  I listed a few little bullet points and I said, please prepare for healthcare, financial things like that's it.
[00:06:19]  So it was very matter of fact.
[00:06:22]  And I didn't explicitly say, don't contact me, but it's been two and a half years now.
[00:06:26]  And yeah, they're still trying.
[00:06:30]  And I don't want to second guess myself or like go down a rabbit hole of like how I should have worded things or what exactly I should have said.
[00:06:37]  But I also don't want to, you know, ghost, you know, I don't want to ghost my extended family.
[00:06:44]  I haven't really talked to my extended family, kind of just stopped talking to them because I moved overseas and then I moved back, but I just stopped talking to my extended family.
[00:06:55]  And so that's really the thing.
[00:06:56]  It's kind of the two part question of like, you know, dad's reaching out a lot.
[00:07:01]  I see it from time to time.
[00:07:02]  He's saying he's going to therapy now.
[00:07:03]  He provided proof, but I could tell by the tone of the message.
[00:07:07]  Like, I'm not judging, but it's the same message every time.
[00:07:12]  And he's not addressing anything that I wrote.
[00:07:14]  What is the message?
[00:07:16]  From my father?
[00:07:18]  Yeah, it's typically like, you're killing me.
[00:07:24]  I can't live like this.
[00:07:25]  Like, I'm not seeing my grandkids.
[00:07:26]  What are they going to, you know, I'm afraid they're never going to get to know me.
[00:07:30]  It's a lot of me, me, me, I, I, I stuff I did the best I could.
[00:07:35]  I was.
[00:07:36]  A good dad, your mom kicked me out of the house.
[00:07:38]  What was I supposed to do?
[00:07:39]  Like, she was, you know, she kicked me out.
[00:07:41]  I didn't want to leave.
[00:07:42]  You know, there's just no accountability.
[00:07:44]  And it's the whole I, I, I thing.
[00:07:46]  There's been probably 50 or I don't know, maybe 20 or 30 of these emails.
[00:07:50]  The only new thing is, hey, I'm going to therapy because I heard through the grapevine.
[00:07:57]  This is not true, by the way.
[00:07:58]  He's like, I heard through the grapevine that you told someone in the family that if I go to therapy, you'd consider talking to me again.
[00:08:05]  So he attached some receipts and things.
[00:08:06]  And he's obviously been going, but I'm pretty sure it was just a vent.
[00:08:12]  And, you know, I don't know if he's experiencing like epiphanies per se.
[00:08:18]  Right.
[00:08:19]  I'm really sorry.
[00:08:20]  It's a very sad situation.
[00:08:21]  Of course, it's nothing that anybody wants in their life.
[00:08:23]  So I just wanted to, first of all, express, you know, deep, deep sympathies.
[00:08:29]  And what were the major, and again, I know this is a bit of retread, but what were the major issues that you were dealing with before leaving your family, other than your own personal dissociative disorder?
[00:08:40]  So I was just really struggling mentally from that.
[00:08:45]  And, you know, in the letter to my dad, it was basically three things.
[00:08:50]  Look, you left me with a crazy and dangerous woman, mom.
[00:08:53]  You were like so disconnected that you didn't even ask or recognize what I was going through living in this asylum with this woman.
[00:09:00]  And then you repeated the same situation in your second marriage when he went from the proverbial frying pan into the fire.
[00:09:07]  The second woman was like even way worse.
[00:09:09]  And that's hard to imagine.
[00:09:11]  And that was a whole I mean, that was just horrific threats and just really off the wall, bizarre stuff.
[00:09:18]  So I basically told him the reason.
[00:09:21]  And that was it.
[00:09:23]  I just said, I'm not coming back.
[00:09:25]  Okay.
[00:09:26]  And how had your relationship been with your parents prior to the separation?
[00:09:32]  Very strained on and off, causing me stress.
[00:09:35]  Yeah, I mean, there were many times, I guess, maybe like when I was a teenager or like maybe early 20s, like long periods I didn't talk to my mom or I didn't talk to my dad or both of them, then kind of start talking to them again and very on and off.
[00:09:52]  But even when my dad would come and visit me, You know, maybe 2020, 2021, 2022, maybe like, you know, a little bit post COVID, you know, we would have sometimes conversations and he'd be asking me stuff.
[00:10:03]  And I'm like, look, like my heart is cold.
[00:10:05]  Like, you're here, you know, but like, I just don't want to, I'm kind of done like talking about it.
[00:10:15]  Because I tried many times and it was never productive.
[00:10:17]  I've tried many times over probably a decade and a half with both of them and it's just not productive.
[00:10:24]  So very strange.
[00:10:26]  Okay.
[00:10:27]  And do you miss them at all?
[00:10:29]  No.
[00:10:31]  Okay.
[00:10:32]  All right.
[00:10:33]  And so your father is saying kind of the same thing.
[00:10:37]  They're separated.
[00:10:38]  Your mother is saying once or twice a year, I guess nothing major, right?
[00:10:43]  You know, more like she's like addressing the email to like my kids saying happy birthday or something, happy Easter, you know, whatever it is.
[00:10:52]  And like sometimes will be like kind of a passive aggressive thing.
[00:10:55]  I don't know.
[00:10:55]  Call it, but like, I wish one day your daddy would let me see you type thing.
[00:11:00]  You know, stuff like that is not appropriate.
[00:11:02]  Oh, to the kids.
[00:11:03]  Oh, God.
[00:11:04]  Yeah, to the kids.
[00:11:04]  Yeah.
[00:11:05]  Like she's addressing that.
[00:11:06]  That's no good.
[00:11:07]  Yeah.
[00:11:07]  And right.
[00:11:08]  And the kids are, they ain't going to see that either.
[00:11:10]  But, but yeah, so stuff like that.
[00:11:13]  And then, like, I guess our last text, you know, maybe two and a half years ago before I blocked my mom, you know, she was, there was like occasionally like talking about like her pursuing legal remedies.
[00:11:26]  Like there's grandparental.
[00:11:28]  It's you can't do this, and I'm just like, okay, delete.
[00:11:32]  Um, and I know in Japan, but yeah, okay, I think so.
[00:11:37]  No, only in like extreme scenarios in some states, but no, okay, got it.
[00:11:42]  All right.
[00:11:43]  So, what can I do that would, I want to make sure I sort of give you maximum value as usual.
[00:11:50]  So, what is it that I can do that's going to be the most helpful for you today?
[00:11:54]  Well, thanks for asking.
[00:11:57]  I have clarity and, you know, I don't miss them and I feel good.
[00:12:02]  But, you know, it's not like my dad's not doing anything.
[00:12:07]  I mean, he is going to therapy.
[00:12:09]  He heard that I might consider talking to him if he did that.
[00:12:13]  I'm just so jaded.
[00:12:14]  I know my dad.
[00:12:15]  I know he's going in there to vent.
[00:12:16]  So I'm a little just curious, you know, your take on that and what, you know, in my letter, I said, there can't be a real relationship, dad, mom, when there's serious wrongdoing without restitution.
[00:12:30]  So, you know, that's why we can't continue.
[00:12:33]  So, yeah, maybe he's trying, you know, sometimes restitution is not possible.
[00:12:36]  I listened to all this stuff, your fantastic stuff on that.
[00:12:38]  I get it.
[00:12:39]  And I don't know.
[00:12:41]  I just think it's been too long.
[00:12:43]  But then I also, you know, part of me is like, all right, it's good that he's going into therapy.
[00:12:48]  So, I guess I am a little bit curious on what the road would look like.
[00:12:53]  I don't miss them and I don't want to re engage because if I did, it would open, it would just open the floodgates and he would never stop harassing me.
[00:13:02]  I dread picking up when he calls.
[00:13:04]  It's just the same thing.
[00:13:06]  But at the same time, I feel, in a way, not bad, but it's almost like he can't see the right thing to do, but it's not my job to teach him.
[00:13:20]  You know, I guess I feel a bit conflicted about the fact that he reaches out so much, seems to really, really want a relationship with me, but the content of the letters is bullshit.
[00:13:31]  But then again, he's also going to therapy.
[00:13:32]  So it's, so there's that.
[00:13:35]  And then just, you know, I'm a little concerned that I ghosted my extended family because they know like stuff was going on.
[00:13:41]  I didn't go to my grandma's funeral a few weeks ago and they haven't heard from me in a long time.
[00:13:46]  And I never really addressed them with my gripes and my things like, My parents, and I just don't want to live with any regrets.
[00:13:54]  I want to be authentic, and I don't want to, you know, I would say ghosting is in my nature, but like I got a lot going on.
[00:14:01]  I just don't want to deal with it, but I want to be more mature than that and make sure that I didn't abscond.
[00:14:09]  What do you mean?
[00:14:09]  I know you mean abscond like ghosted, but what do you mean by that?
[00:14:13]  Like, I think there's a lot of folks in my extended family who are like, Yeah, you had problems with your parents, but what's up?
[00:14:21]  Like, You just leave the entire, you just leave everyone.
[00:14:24]  And, but from my perspective, it's like, yeah, like I moved overseas and like no one really reached out.
[00:14:32]  And, you know, when you have a real relationship, like, you know, it's a two way street.
[00:14:36]  People keep in touch and whatever.
[00:14:37]  And then like things happen, whether it's funerals or other family events, and I'm not going because they're just not like quality relationships.
[00:14:43]  And I'm not, I don't say that with any malice or anger.
[00:14:47]  I just accept it.
[00:14:49]  But I know their perception is like, well, he said, screw all of us.
[00:14:54]  And, You know, or they're bewildered, or they're thinking, yeah, his problem with his parents, but what about me?
[00:15:02]  Like, you know, I think it's confusing for them.
[00:15:05]  It's not confusing to me, really, but I think it's very confusing to them.
[00:15:09]  And I want to make sure that I tie off in a mature way.
[00:15:13]  Yeah.

=== The Problem With Loving Someone (03:21) ===

[00:15:14]  The problem is, it's your wife's fault.
[00:15:18]  Yeah.
[00:15:19]  I mean, if it's any consolation, it's my wife's fault, too.
[00:15:24]  Interesting.
[00:15:25]  Yeah.
[00:15:25]  So the problem is that you actually have someone in your life who cares about you.
[00:15:30]  Yeah.
[00:15:30]  So that's no good.
[00:15:32]  Because once you have someone in your life who actually cares about you, everybody else just kind of blows chunks.
[00:15:39]  Right.
[00:15:40]  And so I would, you know, just blame her.
[00:15:43]  I mean, mostly what we get married for is to have someone to blame, right?
[00:15:47]  And at least I don't want to speak for all married people, but I would certainly speak for myself that a scapegoat who's also sexy is like the best combo in marriage as a whole.
[00:15:59]  And you have some kids.
[00:16:00]  I assume you will find your wife sexy.
[00:16:02]  I'm sure she is.
[00:16:04]  So it's her.
[00:16:06]  Have you told her?
[00:16:08]  Oh, yeah.
[00:16:08]  Yeah.
[00:16:08]  We talk about this stuff.
[00:16:09]  I mean, we listen.
[00:16:10]  To your show.
[00:16:11]  We're deep in, we love to talk about this.
[00:16:13]  Okay, but you told her that it's her fault, right?
[00:16:19]  No, not in those words.
[00:16:22]  No.
[00:16:23]  Okay, so let me just talk to her for a sec if she listens back to this.
[00:16:27]  My dear, my friend, it's your fault.
[00:16:30]  You care about him.
[00:16:31]  You act in a consistently affectionate manner.
[00:16:34]  You're positive, you're supportive, you're helpful, you're empathetic, you're curious.
[00:16:38]  I'm sure you're a wonderful wife.
[00:16:40]  And that's.
[00:16:43]  That's spoiling him.
[00:16:45]  You know, once you eat at a really great restaurant that then moves into your house, I mean, how can you go back to generic MRE slopped like they'd get in the army?
[00:16:57]  So, yeah, I mean, the problem is that she's raised your standards and she's treating you well and she's loving you.
[00:17:04]  And you're like, oh, man, this is what it's supposed to be like.
[00:17:09]  This is what I was missing.
[00:17:11]  And how are you supposed to go back after that?
[00:17:14]  Yeah.
[00:17:15]  And I say this, you know, obviously somewhat tongue in cheek, but I mean, it's very serious.
[00:17:19]  Being loved, like being genuinely loved, will absolutely mess up all the trashy non relationships in your life.
[00:17:28]  Yeah.
[00:17:29]  Yeah.
[00:17:30]  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
[00:17:31]  I mean, with her, you know, she's not raising my blood pressure.
[00:17:36]  Yeah.
[00:17:36]  You know, she asks questions.
[00:17:38]  It's, you know, it's lovely.
[00:17:39]  So, of course.
[00:17:40]  I mean, she listens to this show.
[00:17:42]  A lot.
[00:17:43]  Yeah.
[00:17:43]  My wife doesn't even listen to my show.
[00:17:45]  I'm just kidding.
[00:17:46]  But.
[00:17:47]  No, so I mean, I'm dead serious about this.
[00:17:49]  Like, how are you supposed to go back to shit sandwiches when you get baked Alaska or, I don't know, whatever your particular favorite food is?
[00:17:57]  How are you supposed to go back to, like, eating off the floor in some sort of sleazy dive when you've got really great food?
[00:18:07]  Yeah.
[00:18:08]  So, yeah, just if you can tell her, I'm not saying you'd necessarily tell your family as a whole, but if you can just tell your wife that she's put you in a difficult position.
[00:18:20]  By being nice and loving, then again, you can shrug off the responsibility, you can put it on your wife, and you can turn her virtues against her, which is really one of the greatest joys and thrills of marriage as a whole.

=== Fractures in Personality Disorders (07:36) ===

[00:18:35]  All right.
[00:18:35]  Well, okay, now we've identified the cause of the problem, we can work towards a solution.
[00:18:41]  Right.
[00:18:42]  I appreciate it.
[00:18:42]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:18:43]  And what decade of life are you in?
[00:18:46]  40s, early 40s.
[00:18:47]  And what decade of life are your parents in?
[00:18:50]  Early 70s.
[00:18:52]  Early 70s.
[00:18:52]  Oh, sorry.
[00:18:53]  I didn't mean to laugh.
[00:18:56]  All right.
[00:18:58]  All right.
[00:18:59]  Do you know the difference between a personality with a disorder and a personality disorder?
[00:19:08]  No.
[00:19:08]  I mean, there's no particular reason why you would.
[00:19:10]  And I'll just obviously roughly paraphrase it in my own amateur fashion.
[00:19:15]  So, a personality with a disorder is a generally functional personality.
[00:19:20]  That has some anxiety, maybe some depression, and can be set right.
[00:19:27]  Therapy, self knowledge, wisdom, philosophy, love, you know, whatever it's going to be, some combination of bringing the personality to light and reason.
[00:19:36]  That is a personality with a disorder.
[00:19:41]  And the way that I think of it, have you ever cracked or sprained, no, a cracked or broken a bone?
[00:19:47]  Yeah.
[00:19:47]  Which one?
[00:19:49]  Well, I sprained my pinky a few times.
[00:19:51]  I mean, it's nothing really, but I sprained your pinky a few times.
[00:19:54]  Hang on, I'm drowning in machismo here.
[00:19:57]  I was thinking of some twist, fracture of the tibia or something.
[00:20:00]  Okay.
[00:20:01]  I never broke a bone or got into a fight.
[00:20:03]  Okay.
[00:20:04]  So let's just look at.
[00:20:07]  The fruitiest metaphor that we're going to, the fruitiest analogy I've done in a while.
[00:20:12]  So you sprain your finger and then do you go get an x ray or do you just ride it out or what do you do?
[00:20:21]  I would say if it's bad enough, you got to go get an x ray.
[00:20:24]  Yeah, but what have you done?
[00:20:25]  What have you done?
[00:20:26]  Yeah, there are a couple of points in my life where something hurt like really bad and it popped over at urgent care, got an x ray.
[00:20:32]  Okay.
[00:20:33]  You got an x ray and they said it sprained, try not to move it or whatever they said, right?
[00:20:38]  Yes.
[00:20:38]  Okay.
[00:20:39]  So that is a finger with a disorder.
[00:20:43]  You know, if you break your arm, you have an arm with a break.
[00:20:47]  And of course, the purpose is to fix it and to return it close to normal functioning.
[00:20:54]  And in fact, you can end up with stronger bones because you've broken your bones, because maybe you get into rehab and rehab leads you to exercise and you end up lifting weights or whatever it is you're doing.
[00:21:05]  So you end up stronger because you've broken your bones.
[00:21:10]  Broken a bone, right?
[00:21:11]  So that is an arm or a body part with a disorder that can be fixed, right?
[00:21:18]  Now, a personality disorder is not a personality with a disorder.
[00:21:25]  It is a personality that is a disorder.
[00:21:28]  Yeah.
[00:21:29]  And what that is, is the way that I view it, again, obviously in my amateur fashion, is when I'm looking, I imagine being a doctor, right?
[00:21:37]  And I say, okay, so this person's come in there.
[00:21:41]  They've got blood, they're covered in a sheet, and I lift up the sheet.
[00:21:45]  And if I see a broken arm, then I will obviously try to fix the arm.
[00:21:51]  Maybe you've got to open it up, put some bolts in, or whatever freaky cyborg stuff they do these days.
[00:21:56]  And then the person gets back to using their arm, right?
[00:21:58]  This is sort of akin to somebody who's got anxiety.
[00:22:01]  You teach them some sort of stress management or something like that, right?
[00:22:03]  Depression.
[00:22:04]  Maybe they're surrounded by jerks and you try and figure that out.
[00:22:07]  However, if it's the doctor, I lift up the sheet.
[00:22:12]  And there's a stump.
[00:22:14]  And I say, what the hell happened?
[00:22:15]  It's like, oh, yeah, a shark bit off his arm and swam away, right?
[00:22:21]  Now, that is not a broken arm.
[00:22:23]  That's a missing arm.
[00:22:25]  Yep.
[00:22:25]  And what are my options?
[00:22:29]  Yeah, limited.
[00:22:29]  Well, sew it up, right?
[00:22:32]  Yeah.
[00:22:35]  I'm not going to put a spigot on or, you know, some sort of robot arm or a vacuum attachment.
[00:22:40]  I just, okay, you are now a guy without an arm, and that arm is not going to regrow.
[00:22:45]  For sure.
[00:22:47]  So when I am looking at people in my life or in my past, I say to myself, are they a person with a disorder or are they a person who is a disorder?
[00:23:02]  And the disorder aspect is usually something to do with what's called an observing ego.
[00:23:07]  The observing ego is the part of you that evaluates your behavior and compares it to ideal standards.
[00:23:15]  So for instance, Nobody considers you anxious if you feel fear running away from a bear in the woods, right?
[00:23:24]  It's not an anxiety disorder that's a don't want to get eaten by the beard, by the bear, sort of non disorder.
[00:23:30]  And so, what I do is I look for somebody who has the ability to evaluate their own behavior and compare it to some higher or better standard.
[00:23:40]  So, for instance, if people are waking up and their heart's pounding and they're sweating, their palms are sweating, and they're dizzy and their pupils are dilated, they're like full fight or flight stress responses, and they're not in any particular danger, I assume that people would say, gee, I didn't feel like this yesterday.
[00:24:02]  This is a deviation from normal, healthy behavior.
[00:24:05]  I need to fix it, if that makes sense.
[00:24:09]  Now, for the observing ego, there has to be something outside the disorder.
[00:24:16]  There has to be a part of you that looks at depression or anxiety or rage issues or something like that and says, gee, this is not great.
[00:24:24]  This is not ideal.
[00:24:26]  I would like to improve this.
[00:24:29]  I'm sorry for the lengthy explanation.
[00:24:31]  I promise.
[00:24:33]  I can virtually promise.
[00:24:33]  I can't guarantee.
[00:24:34]  I can virtually promise it'll really help because I'm talking, of course, about how to evaluate your parents, in my opinion.
[00:24:41]  So I'm sure that you and your wife and your children have the ability to observe their own behavior and say, how does this compare to an ideal standard?
[00:24:54]  If that makes sense.
[00:24:55]  We do it all the time.
[00:24:56]  Yeah, all the time, right?
[00:24:58]  That's what we do.
[00:24:58]  And that's what healthy people do.
[00:25:01]  Even if we have some stress, some depression, some anxiety, whatever, we say, okay, this is a deviation.
[00:25:07]  My pinky is swollen, it's hurting, so I need to do whatever I need to do to get it back to some sort of normal or functional state.
[00:25:16]  So, when looking at your parents, in my view, what you need to do is figure out are they a person with a broken arm or a person with no arm?
[00:25:28]  If it's a person with a broken arm, hopefully you can fix it.
[00:25:31]  Not as a doctor, but just as you know, you tell them to go to a doctor.
[00:25:34]  But nobody tells somebody, like you meet some guy at a party who's Got no left arm, you don't say to him, Man, you should really regrow that.
[00:25:44]  Like, why haven't you regrown?
[00:25:46]  Because that would be mean, right?
[00:25:47]  That would be cruel because he can't regrow his arm.
[00:25:49]  There's an old website talked about by Richard Dawkins called GodHatesAmputees.com, which is God heals everything except things like amputations.
[00:26:00]  People say, Oh, I had a tumor and my tumor is gone, or I had this and this is gone, but he never regrows an arm, right?
[00:26:07]  There's no picture of some guy who's lost an arm and then look, it's me.
[00:26:09]  I have my right.
[00:26:10]  So, God hates amputees.

=== Psychological Whiplash and Damage Control (03:18) ===

[00:26:12]  So, So that's what I do.
[00:26:14]  And what I would suggest is you obviously have 40 plus years experience with your parents.
[00:26:21]  Think back to a time.
[00:26:24]  Have they ever said of their own volition, of their own free will, not court ordered, not mandated, not because they're cornered, not because they're going to suffer if they don't admit something?
[00:26:36]  Have they ever woken up or said something or was like, wow, you know, I really did not do well with that?
[00:26:42]  But that behavior was really bad.
[00:26:44]  That behavior was really negative.
[00:26:46]  Gosh, I need to do better.
[00:26:48]  This is not positive.
[00:26:50]  Some sort of wake up call or some sort of change.
[00:26:54]  Now, if you think back over the course of your life with your parents, like 40 plus years, how many times, if any, have your parents, of their own free will, said, Ooh, you know, that was not great, what I did yesterday or what I did this morning.
[00:27:12]  I really apologize and I've got to really do better with that.
[00:27:16]  Yeah, my dad zero times.
[00:27:19]  My mom a few times, but it was more insulting because the behavior like immediately continued.
[00:27:24]  So, it was more of like a, you know, like psychological whiplash thing.
[00:27:29]  So, effectively zero.
[00:27:32]  Okay.
[00:27:32]  So, and I'm just curious about that.
[00:27:34]  And it's very interesting to me.
[00:27:37]  So, your mother, give me some examples of what happened with your mother.
[00:27:42]  Yeah.
[00:27:42]  That's easy.
[00:27:43]  So, just like crazy, blood curdling psychotic screaming and verbal abuse and calling me all sorts of names.
[00:27:52]  And then, like, she'd snap out of it.
[00:27:54]  Then she would just like profusely apologize.
[00:27:57]  And say, well, even though I said this, you know, I don't mean that.
[00:28:00]  They're just words.
[00:28:01]  I don't mean that.
[00:28:02]  Sorry, that's not apologizing.
[00:28:03]  That's minimizing.
[00:28:05]  Yeah, for sure.
[00:28:06]  For sure.
[00:28:06]  No, no, no.
[00:28:07]  Don't say for sure.
[00:28:08]  There's a different thing.
[00:28:11]  Yes.
[00:28:11]  Different thing.
[00:28:11]  To apologize is to not excuse.
[00:28:13]  The moment somebody makes excuses, that's not an apology.
[00:28:16]  That's minimizing.
[00:28:17]  It's quite the opposite.
[00:28:19]  It's saying, well, I didn't really mean it.
[00:28:20]  And if you're upset, then clearly you're the problem.
[00:28:23]  Yes, you want an erasure, not repair.
[00:28:25]  That's right.
[00:28:26]  Okay, sorry.
[00:28:27]  I thought there was more.
[00:28:28]  So it sounds like, and I don't want to put words in your mouth.
[00:28:30]  So, of course, if I'm incorrect or inaccurate, please correct me as always.
[00:28:34]  So it sounds like she went too far and had a panic and needed to do some kind of damage control.
[00:28:41]  Yeah, it's hard, I mean, to even think because it was so night and day.
[00:28:49]  You know, it just confused me.
[00:28:51]  And the next day she did the same thing.
[00:28:52]  So, like, her words didn't mean anything.
[00:28:54]  Yeah, she thought it was damage control.
[00:28:56]  I mean, I don't know.
[00:28:58]  I guess I don't know.
[00:28:58]  Well, she didn't apologize as far as I can tell.
[00:29:03]  She said, I didn't mean it, you know, but that's not an apology.
[00:29:09]  She has said, I'm sorry.
[00:29:11]  Like, you know, these perfunctory words.
[00:29:15]  Well, but I'm sorry for what?
[00:29:16]  Anyone can say, I'm sorry.
[00:29:19]  Yeah.
[00:29:19]  I mean, she's said, I'm sorry for calling you those names.
[00:29:23]  You know, when I get in a state like that, you know, I don't mean it, but I can't.
[00:29:27]  That's not an apology.
[00:29:28]  Again, sorry to be annoying.

=== Missing Arms and Perfunctory Apologies (10:37) ===

[00:29:30]  I really am.
[00:29:30]  As usual.
[00:29:32]  I don't disagree.
[00:29:33]  I didn't mean it.
[00:29:34]  It's not an apology.
[00:29:36]  Yeah.
[00:29:37]  Right.
[00:29:38]  Right.
[00:29:39]  So, no.
[00:29:40]  Yeah.
[00:29:41]  There's no accountability.
[00:29:42]  And that's a good point.
[00:29:43]  So, no, zero for each.
[00:29:45]  Okay.
[00:29:46]  So, if your parents have gotten to their 70s without having observed their own behavior and comparing it to any ideal standard, then they are not people with a problem.
[00:30:00]  They are people who are a problem.
[00:30:01]  There is no outside ego or outside agency, and certainly no higher standard that they are willing to compare their own behavior to, find themselves wanting, and work to improve.
[00:30:14]  Without question.
[00:30:15]  And, you know, knowing about my mom's childhood.
[00:30:19]  No.
[00:30:20]  Well, no.
[00:30:21]  Oh, my gosh.
[00:30:22]  Don't domino me, bro.
[00:30:25]  I wasn't going to say I wasn't going to go perhaps where you think I was going to go.
[00:30:28]  All right.
[00:30:29]  But certainly happy to let you take me on a journey.
[00:30:32]  Fair, fair.
[00:30:34]  Yeah, no, I wasn't saying that to excuse them.
[00:30:38]  Quite the opposite.
[00:30:39]  I was saying, knowing how they were raised, it makes perfect sense to me why there would be a stump and not a sprain.
[00:30:50]  So it just provides clarity.
[00:30:53]  No, you did exactly what I thought you were going to do.
[00:30:55]  Sorry again.
[00:30:56]  I apologize, but you did exactly what I was afraid you were going to do.
[00:31:00]  Go on.
[00:31:01]  Well, you're saying that they are the way they are because of their childhood.
[00:31:04]  That they're a stump because of their childhood.
[00:31:07]  Well, it's because they chose not to take any action to remediate it or to.
[00:31:13]  I mean, I've gone on a tremendous journey of personal growth.
[00:31:16]  It's a process.
[00:31:17]  They've done none of that.
[00:31:20]  They have chosen to justify their own behaviors rather than work to improve.
[00:31:27]  Everyone has, what do they call it?
[00:31:30]  A sliding scale or something like that or a bell curve.
[00:31:33]  No, no, a grading curve where it drove a friend of mine nuts in university when he took a math and physics double major.
[00:31:41]  And people would get 20 to 25 degrees on an exam and then they'd all get graded up to 75.
[00:31:48]  Like you just.
[00:31:50]  Adjust the grades so that people would pass.
[00:31:52]  And he said, I'm, you know, the professor said, I make the exams crazy difficult because nobody minds being graded up, but everybody hates being graded down.
[00:32:02]  So I can't make the exams too easy.
[00:32:04]  So, so it's not childhood, unless there's, you know, physical brain damage or something like that, right?
[00:32:14]  But it's not childhood.
[00:32:16]  It's a fork in the road, a fork in the road where everyone has to say, Do I improve myself or do I justify and attack?
[00:32:30]  Because these two things always go hand in hand.
[00:32:32]  I mean, I'm sure you've heard of this.
[00:32:35]  Up until quite recently, there was this, before Ozempic, there was this body positivity movement, right?
[00:32:40]  Right.
[00:32:40]  And so people are obese and that's unhealthy.
[00:32:44]  It's bad for the environment.
[00:32:46]  It's bad for just about everything and bad for fertility and so on.
[00:32:50]  And what they did was they could say, these people need to lose weight.
[00:32:54]  It's unhealthy and it's wrong and it's greedy and it's a sin of gluttony.
[00:33:00]  And there may be psychological trauma, which needs to be dealt with, but you don't deal with it by eating, right?
[00:33:04]  So, what did people do?
[00:33:08]  They redefined, right, that I can be healthy at any size.
[00:33:14]  And then they attacked as fat phobic anybody who didn't accept this explanation, right?
[00:33:20]  Because it wasn't an explanation, it was a justification.
[00:33:23]  So, when you are in a state of negativity, in this case, it would be obesity.
[00:33:29]  You can either say, I'm unhealthy and I need to deal with whatever's causing me to overeat and I need to get to a healthier weight.
[00:33:37]  Or you can say, I'm perfect.
[00:33:41]  Nature loves me the way I am.
[00:33:43]  And anybody who has a problem with me is fat phobic and I'm going to attack them.
[00:33:49]  Now, does that get commanded?
[00:33:52]  Does that choice get commanded by childhood?
[00:33:56]  No.
[00:33:58]  I mean, I'm sorry to be annoying because I can imagine some scenarios where.
[00:34:02]  I don't know.
[00:34:03]  Someone is like raised in a basement and subjected to all kinds of torture and assault.
[00:34:09]  Like, I can imagine that there could be extreme situations where it would be fairly impossible.
[00:34:15]  But even then, even people who've been raised in the most appalling situations can often have warmth and humanity and so on.
[00:34:23]  Right.
[00:34:25]  And so it's interesting to me, of course, as usual, that when I was talking about.
[00:34:33]  Your parents not taking responsibility for their own lives.
[00:34:37]  The first place you went was?
[00:34:40]  In childhood.
[00:34:41]  In order to.
[00:34:45]  In my mind, I mean, in my mind, as I was saying it, it's not to defend.
[00:34:50]  I mean, I'm angry at them and I don't want to defend them, but it was a process of me thinking through is this a personality with a disorder or a personality disorder?
[00:35:02]  And then I'm thinking, you know, going back to the past, not in a sense.
[00:35:07]  To defend or justify, but to like understand the ideology of it and where it came from.
[00:35:12]  And then you get to a certain point where you're an adult, and now, okay, you have had 50 years to observe yourself and do something, and it hasn't been done.
[00:35:21]  So, my reasoning only took me halfway through that.
[00:35:25]  So, you know, I'm a long time listener, and that all makes perfect sense.
[00:35:30]  I was just kind of trying to look at a narrative to figure out, although I know the answer, is this a person?
[00:35:38]  No, I'm sorry.
[00:35:40]  So, and what I understood, and perhaps I jumped the gun too, so I'm sorry if I did, but.
[00:35:47]  What I understood was when I was talking about people who have personality disorders, and you go to childhood, my understanding was you saying, This is where the personality disorders come from.
[00:36:01]  Is there a bad childhood?
[00:36:04]  Yes, that's correct.
[00:36:06]  That is what I was thinking, yeah.
[00:36:08]  Well, and that's an excuse.
[00:36:10]  Well, I mean, unless I misunderstand something, I'm certainly happy to hear another explanation.
[00:36:18]  Well, you know, I'm just trying to reconcile two different things.
[00:36:24]  So, what you just said, but also, you know, this idea that, again, I'm not an expert, you're not an expert in psychology and mental disorders, but, you know, some folks believe, you know, mental disorders are really emotional disorders and the roots are in childhood.
[00:36:41]  And again, this is, I'm just sharing this subjectively, not saying that this is, I'm not saying it to defend anyone, but I'm trying to reconcile the two ideas that.
[00:36:50]  A personality disorder doesn't have its roots in childhood, but a mental or emotional disorder would.
[00:36:57]  Maybe you can help explain that a little better.
[00:37:00]  Well, we're dealing with your parents in their 70s.
[00:37:02]  Right.
[00:37:04]  So it certainly is the case that people with bad childhoods have emotional difficulties and significant cognitive and psychological challenges.
[00:37:15]  And then you have 50 years to figure it out.
[00:37:16]  I get it.
[00:37:17]  Okay.
[00:37:17]  Yeah, got it.
[00:37:18]  So the question is to revisit our broken bone analogy, it would be something like this.
[00:37:25]  So, if your bone is broken as a child, let's say, no, let's not make it a child.
[00:37:33]  You break your bone, you break your arm as a young man, and you know that something's wrong because your arm is painful and funny or whatever it is, right?
[00:37:42]  It's looking funny, sitting funny.
[00:37:45]  And then either you go and get it treated and you recover your arm and you recover your mobility, or you leave it untreated and then eventually your arm has to be amputated.
[00:37:57]  Now, what is the cause of the amputation?
[00:38:01]  Not addressing it soon enough.
[00:38:02]  Right.
[00:38:02]  It's not the broken bone.
[00:38:05]  Now, it's necessary, but not sufficient.
[00:38:07]  In other words, you wouldn't have your arm amputated if you didn't have a broken bone, but the broken bone does not cause the amputation.
[00:38:15]  Yeah, it's a perfect analogy.
[00:38:17]  Yeah.
[00:38:17]  So when I say your parents' arms are missing, you say, oh, yeah, that makes sense because they had their arms broken when they were kids.
[00:38:23]  It's like, that's not it, though.
[00:38:25]  Because as I said earlier, And I think this is probably the case with you and I.
[00:38:29]  And, you know, if your wife had a bad child, did something like that with her.
[00:38:33]  But if you get your arm broken, as I said earlier, and just because I said it doesn't mean it's an analogy, it doesn't prove anything.
[00:38:40]  But if you have your arm broken, you can end up with a stronger arm.
[00:38:45]  Sure.
[00:38:46]  So a broken arm does not mean your arm gets amputated.
[00:38:49]  But if you don't treat it, then it's amputated.
[00:38:54]  Now, of course, the problem is so your parents had you in their 30s, right?
[00:39:00]  Early 30.
[00:39:02]  Yeah, I think we're 30.
[00:39:03]  So the problem is by the time you meet your parents, they have no arm.
[00:39:08]  They're missing their left arm, let's say.
[00:39:11]  And it's all healed over, right?
[00:39:14]  Maybe they have some kind of prosthetic or whatever it is, right?
[00:39:17]  And so for you, you meet them when they're missing an arm, and then you find out that their arm got broken as a child.
[00:39:26]  And you say, oh, that's why they don't have an arm.
[00:39:29]  Because by the time we meet them, the arm is gone, it's all healed over, and we don't see the process of failing to treat it that ends up with it being amputated.
[00:39:39]  We just see the after effect of it not being treated, if that makes sense.
[00:39:44]  Yeah, that's very illuminating.
[00:39:46]  So, the reason I'm digging into this particular topic is because if you say my parents have intractable psychological issues because of their childhood, what emotion will be blunted the most from that perspective?

=== Blunted Rage from Childhood Issues (02:55) ===

[00:40:07]  My rage, my anger.
[00:40:08]  Right.
[00:40:10]  So, tell me about that.
[00:40:12]  Yeah.
[00:40:12]  I mean, uh, Yeah, you know, I was so numb.
[00:40:18]  I couldn't feel anything.
[00:40:19]  I mean, nothing.
[00:40:20]  I mean, I used to have to envision wild, heinous scenarios just to get a rise, just to feel something, like just to see if I could still feel angry.
[00:40:29]  And then, you know, so yeah, I've done a lot of therapy.
[00:40:34]  I've talked to you a few times as well, just, you know, to chat.
[00:40:39]  And so I wrote them the letter.
[00:40:43]  And then it was after that that all the rage, you know, started.
[00:40:48]  I wouldn't say all the rage, rage and feelings and anger started coming back.
[00:40:53]  I started to feel again and step into authenticity and a lot of emotions.
[00:40:59]  And it felt great.
[00:41:07]  But this perspective, bad summary of what you said, but that they had 50 years to fix this thing, it just wasn't worth it to them.
[00:41:19]  It provokes rage anew, for sure.
[00:41:23]  But yeah, to just never take accountability.
[00:41:26]  And, you know, I guess at first I viewed it as a bit conflicting, like, oh, like my dad going to therapy, I want to change.
[00:41:33]  I'm doing this, I'm doing this.
[00:41:34]  Like, but the only reason he went is because he heard from someone that I talked to him if he did it.
[00:41:40]  And it's like a checkbox.
[00:41:41]  And like, okay, you need to do it now at 70.
[00:41:42]  Like, our relationship was strained for like 20 years.
[00:41:45]  So it never mattered to you until.
[00:41:49]  I made a quite declarative move.
[00:41:52]  So, no, that's, yeah, it's just really screwed up.
[00:41:58]  There's no observing ego.
[00:42:03]  There's no ideal that he, you know, I could never envision my parents saying, look, this would have been ideal.
[00:42:14]  They can't make that comparison because, you know, for example, my dad thinks his own childhood was idyllic and perfect.
[00:42:23]  You can't even talk to him about it.
[00:42:24]  So it's just, it's insulting.
[00:42:29]  Sorry, it's insulting.
[00:42:30]  What do you mean?
[00:42:32]  That you have a strained relationship with your kid for so long, and you know, the only time you even make one step, you know, as even a formality, um, is you know, 20 years, you know, 20 plus years after the problems started.
[00:42:58]  It's, uh, you know, it communicates that, uh, I'm not.

=== Insulting Steps Toward Reconnection (03:50) ===

[00:43:02]  That I just wasn't worth it, my gripes were not real, that they're just self absorbed assholes.
[00:43:15]  And again, having kids, I look at the way I relate to my kids.
[00:43:20]  Every day that goes by with my kids, I get angrier at my parents.
[00:43:25]  That's been a running theme now for the past two or three years.
[00:43:30]  So, yeah, it's bullshit.
[00:43:34]  Right.
[00:43:35]  And there's one sort of final wrinkle which I can deliver fairly succinctly.
[00:43:39]  Well, who am I kidding?
[00:43:40]  Somewhat succinctly about the people with no arm.
[00:43:48]  They don't know that they don't have an arm.
[00:43:50]  They look down and they see, you know, there's phantom limbs.
[00:43:54]  You know, people lose their limbs.
[00:43:55]  Yeah, it's like they look down and they see that they have an arm.
[00:44:01]  And most people.
[00:44:03]  Treat them as if they have both arms.
[00:44:06]  They mime handshakes.
[00:44:07]  They pretend that they could do cartwheels all together.
[00:44:11]  They like most people.
[00:44:12]  And so, not having the arm is not having empathy.
[00:44:17]  But they think they have empathy.
[00:44:18]  They think they're kind.
[00:44:19]  They think they're nice.
[00:44:20]  They think they have the arm.
[00:44:22]  And everyone treats them as if they do.
[00:44:25]  Yeah.
[00:44:26]  And then you come along and you say, You're missing an arm.
[00:44:30]  And they're like, What?
[00:44:31]  They look down.
[00:44:32]  I'm like, What are you talking about?
[00:44:33]  I get.
[00:44:35]  Can knock this arm.
[00:44:35]  I can knock both arms on the counter.
[00:44:37]  Like, what are you talking about?
[00:44:39]  Nobody else is talking to me.
[00:44:40]  I don't have an arm.
[00:44:40]  Are you crazy?
[00:44:42]  Yeah, it's like talking.
[00:44:43]  I mean, especially my dad is just talking to a brick wall.
[00:44:46]  I mean, it's, it's, it used to be so frustrating.
[00:44:50]  So frustrating.
[00:44:50]  Right.
[00:44:51]  And then, and then they say, Hey, I want to be on your baseball team.
[00:44:57]  And you say, You can't be on my baseball team.
[00:44:59]  You only have one arm.
[00:45:01]  We're full.
[00:45:03]  I'm sorry.
[00:45:04]  I said, we're full.
[00:45:05]  We're full, yeah.
[00:45:06]  And they're like, well, what do you mean I can't be on your baseball team?
[00:45:08]  I'm as good, I've been on other people's baseball teams.
[00:45:12]  Or it's sort of like some, you know, when you've got kids, they do drawings and you're thrilled that they do the first lollipop.
[00:45:19]  Oh, that's beautiful, right?
[00:45:20]  First lollipop people they make or whatever, right?
[00:45:23]  And you're supposed to have that kind of ridiculous cheerleading enthusiasm for your kids when they're young.
[00:45:27]  And then, of course, as you get older, you're supposed to be more realistic, right?
[00:45:33]  You know, the first time your kid sings Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star.
[00:45:37]  It's beautiful, right?
[00:45:39]  Now, it's quite different if they want to become a professional singer.
[00:45:41]  Then you have to have sort of slightly different standards because you've got to be realistic, right?
[00:45:45]  So it's like those really bad singers that run up against the judges in those singing, like Simon Cowell, I think his name is, or whatever it is, right?
[00:45:56]  Well, I am.
[00:45:57]  And they're like, he's like, you're terrible.
[00:45:59]  Like, I'm sorry, you're terrible.
[00:46:01]  But they've been told that they're great.
[00:46:03]  And it's so to go back to the arm analogy, your father.
[00:46:08]  Wants to go fishing with you and he wants to play.
[00:46:11]  Well, I guess you can play tennis with one arm because you have backhands or whatever.
[00:46:15]  But, you know, I don't know, whatever sports you need to need two hands, maybe basketball or baseball or something like that, or football.
[00:46:21]  You had to catch with two arms or whatever, right?
[00:46:24]  And he has been treated his whole life as he has two arms.
[00:46:27]  Everybody's faked it for him.
[00:46:29]  And then he wants to join your team, and you see that he's got only one arm, and you keep saying no.
[00:46:34]  So, what's his response?
[00:46:35]  How does he react?
[00:46:37]  Bewildered.
[00:46:38]  And.
[00:46:42]  Well, he doesn't do this.
[00:46:43]  I mean, in this situation, he's not gotten angry and erupted or that.
[00:46:48]  But, you know, yeah, he'd be like, what the hell?
[00:46:50]  What are you doing?
[00:46:50]  Like, what's going on?
[00:46:51]  They would get angry.

=== Accutane Side Effects and Catalysts (04:41) ===

[00:46:53]  Right.
[00:46:53]  And your mother.
[00:46:56]  Yeah, she kind of.
[00:46:56]  Sounds like she has no arms or something like that.
[00:46:59]  And so.
[00:47:00]  Everyone is pretending that these people have arms, and you see that they don't have arms, and there's a contradiction.
[00:47:08]  Right?
[00:47:08]  There's a contradiction.
[00:47:11]  Yeah.
[00:47:11]  And how do they handle that contradiction?
[00:47:13]  Well, if somebody came up to me and said, Steph, you have only one arm, and I'm like, no, no, knocking on the table, I'm juggling, I'm like, check with my wife, I look in the mirror, I go to the doctor, and everyone says, you have two arms.
[00:47:28]  What do I think of the person who says, bro, you have one arm?
[00:47:32]  Crazy liar.
[00:47:35]  Right.
[00:47:36]  And how do your parents treat with or treat or deal with your criticisms of them?
[00:47:46]  They don't even address them.
[00:47:49]  They just dismiss them.
[00:47:50]  They just want to erase it and forget it.
[00:47:53]  Or they blame other things.
[00:47:55]  Like, oh, you took some pill for your skin and it made you crazy when you were young.
[00:48:01]  Like Accutane or whatever.
[00:48:03]  Pimples?
[00:48:04]  You nailed it.
[00:48:05]  Yeah, you nailed it.
[00:48:05]  Yeah.
[00:48:06]  Oh, so they think that Accutane gave you the illusion that they have only one arm.
[00:48:12]  Well, no, well.
[00:48:15]  Or that's why you're criticizing them because you took Accutane.
[00:48:17]  Well, they'll say, oh, I had these dissociative issues, depersonalization, derealization, these crippling, chronic 24 7 things.
[00:48:28]  You feel like you're smoking weed.
[00:48:29]  You feel like you're on drugs every day.
[00:48:31]  You can't even determine reality.
[00:48:33]  Oh, that was because it was the catalyst the first time.
[00:48:38]  When I took, this is just a sidebar, but I took the medication and it was the catalyst.
[00:48:44]  But what sets the foundation for someone to have that type of response?
[00:48:47]  So, but yeah, they continue, my mom continues to say, yeah, well, you know, that really was, it was more the pill, you know, that gave you a lot of problems and you always kind of fought with that over the years.
[00:48:59]  And I'm like, true.
[00:49:01]  Yeah, it did cause problems.
[00:49:03]  That's not debatable.
[00:49:04]  But there's plenty of people, you know, what about, what about, The tenuous foundation that was laid, you know, in the years prior, all that.
[00:49:15]  So it's just a sidebar.
[00:49:16]  But to answer your question, yeah, they take no accountability and they, to use your word, they scapegoat in a bad way.
[00:49:24]  Is that a side effect?
[00:49:25]  I don't know much about Accutane.
[00:49:28]  Is that a side effect?
[00:49:30]  Depersonalization?
[00:49:33]  Yeah, they banned it.
[00:49:34]  They banned the medicine.
[00:49:35]  Yeah, it causes, there's a lot of bad stuff.
[00:49:40]  That you could read out there, ruining people's lives.
[00:49:43]  A kid flew a plane, a young kid flew a plane into a building while he was on it.
[00:49:48]  He was freaking out.
[00:49:49]  So, yeah, I had a horrible reaction, but like, it's just, yes, I did, but it's just not relevant.
[00:49:55]  This is not, we're not talking about pharmaceuticals.
[00:49:57]  Like, that's what I would say to my mom, right?
[00:50:00]  So, yeah, I'm with you there.
[00:50:02]  You know, they just try to put it on other things.
[00:50:04]  They want erasure, not repair.
[00:50:07]  That's how I see it.
[00:50:09]  So, yeah.
[00:50:11]  That's interesting.
[00:50:12]  I mean, I just looked this up and common side effects, less common but notable, and then more rare mood or psychiatric changes depression, anxiety, irritability, aggression, psychosis, suicidal thoughts, behavioral changes.
[00:50:25]  These have been reported.
[00:50:27]  Some resolve after stopping, but monitoring is essential.
[00:50:29]  Not everyone experiences this, and causality is debated.
[00:50:33]  So it doesn't seem to be that it's directly.
[00:50:36]  Yeah.
[00:50:37]  There's some nasty side effects of this thing.
[00:50:40]  Holy crap.
[00:50:40]  Well, that's a whole other thing.
[00:50:42]  But yeah.
[00:50:44]  And I also doubled up on the dose when I was 17.
[00:50:47]  I think I took extra because I hated having acne, and I took too much, and that really put me over the edge.
[00:50:54]  Again, I don't know, but.
[00:50:57]  Yeah, I was taking two months.
[00:50:59]  I was taking double.
[00:51:00]  It's still available.
[00:51:03]  Well, certain forms of it were like bandwidths continued in certain regions, but I think there are probably places you can get it.
[00:51:10]  It's just retinol vitamin A.
[00:51:12]  So there's probably places you can get it.
[00:51:13]  Original brand name Accutane was discontinued in the US in 2009 for business reasons, not safety or efficacy issues.
[00:51:23]  Generic versions of isotrenotone.
[00:51:27]  Knowing?
[00:51:29]  No one.
[00:51:30]  Okay.
[00:51:31]  Got it.
[00:51:31]  Interesting.

=== Meaningless Emails and Double Doses (06:21) ===

[00:51:34]  So she'll occasionally bring that up.
[00:51:37]  And then on my dad's side, you know, when the fan, like, he likes to play the victim to the family.
[00:51:42]  Like, again, I haven't talked to them in a very long time, but up until like, I would hear through the grapevine, like, friends of the family, like, oh, your dad's always saying, like, he's like, I was the perfect father.
[00:51:53]  Like, I can't, it's killing me inside.
[00:51:55]  I want, you know, my son back in my life.
[00:51:57]  And he's still, he's doing the same thing.
[00:51:59]  Like, what's going on?
[00:52:00]  Like, why don't he?
[00:52:01]  And he's like, Tracking down family members to get to me.
[00:52:06]  It's at the point where every time I get an email, I'm like, this is harassment.
[00:52:08]  I even talked to a lawyer.
[00:52:10]  And I was like, what can I do?
[00:52:12]  Because I don't want to reach out because that's just going to embolden him to keep sending more emails.
[00:52:17]  But I was like, are there any legal remedies I can pursue?
[00:52:21]  Because it is harassment.
[00:52:25]  Because it's just so often.
[00:52:26]  And it's years I told him, don't stop.
[00:52:31]  So.
[00:52:32]  Yeah, but to get back to that.
[00:52:33]  Sorry, I may have misunderstood you earlier.
[00:52:35]  I thought that earlier you had said that you had not told them directly to not contact you.
[00:52:40]  That is true.
[00:52:42]  I didn't explicitly say.
[00:52:44]  I mean, like after I sent it, like months later, I occasionally go back and I read the letters that I wrote.
[00:52:49]  And the first thing, the first light, I was like, ah, I didn't explicitly say don't contact me.
[00:52:55]  And I was like, I should probably put that in there.
[00:52:57]  But I don't know.
[00:52:58]  I think it was more than implicit.
[00:53:01]  I saw not returning to that state.
[00:53:04]  Make arrangements for your health care, finances.
[00:53:06]  It's two and a half years now.
[00:53:07]  And all the extended family, they know very well I have moved on and I'm pursuing more genuine relationships.
[00:53:17]  So I didn't explicitly say it, but it's quite obvious.
[00:53:20]  Yeah, no, that's fine.
[00:53:22]  And what did the lawyer say just out of curiosity?
[00:53:25]  He said that there's really nothing you can do.
[00:53:27]  He said, you can like, I was like, well, can't you just write something on your letterhead so it seems intimidating, like seriously stop?
[00:53:32]  He's like, yeah, but it's not enforceable at all.
[00:53:35]  He's like, I'll do it for you, but it's like totally meaningless.
[00:53:38]  But if you want me to do it, I'll do it, he said.
[00:53:40]  And they'll just run it through AI and I will tell them it's totally meaningless and all that, right?
[00:53:45]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:53:46]  So I still see in my trash bin in my email, you know, from time to time.
[00:53:52]  And is that right?
[00:53:52]  Like you can't block at source?
[00:53:55]  No, no.
[00:53:56]  There's no way.
[00:53:58]  I've tried.
[00:53:59]  I've tried.
[00:53:59]  And I could change.
[00:54:00]  I don't want to change my email.
[00:54:01]  I mean, I could say, in outlet, sorry, not outlet, in Outlook, my understanding is that you can say if it's from this email address, Permanently delete it from the server.
[00:54:14]  Yeah.
[00:54:14]  Well, I'm not an outlet on the platform I'm on.
[00:54:19]  You can do that, but it still sends it to the trash.
[00:54:23]  But again, I can just put it in the hand.
[00:54:26]  I'm sorry to be annoying, and I'm sure you've thought of all of this stuff.
[00:54:28]  You're an intelligent fellow, but I mean, why not just change the program you use?
[00:54:33]  Look up for programs, look out for programs that can delete stuff from the server without ever downloading it and you never see it.
[00:54:40]  Yeah.
[00:54:40]  I mean, I changed my phone number.
[00:54:41]  I mean, I moved overseas, moved back, like that's all that.
[00:54:44]  And it's easier with the phone.
[00:54:45]  But yeah, I have some.
[00:54:46]  I mean, I just didn't want to change my email because it's just like that email is very important to.
[00:54:53]  No, no, I'm not saying change the email.
[00:54:56]  I'm saying change the client service provider or the server provider so that if it's from such and such an email, permanently delete it from the server and don't download it.
[00:55:06]  Those are options.
[00:55:07]  Anyway, you can look into it.
[00:55:09]  No, I mean, I look, yeah, I mean, I hear what you're saying.
[00:55:12]  I didn't like the most aggressive option was like, do not ever allow any mail from these email addresses.
[00:55:20]  And I did that and it's still hitting the trash.
[00:55:22]  So, I mean, I have willpower.
[00:55:23]  I don't need to be digging through my trash.
[00:55:25]  There's nothing, you know, spam.
[00:55:27]  Okay.
[00:55:27]  But, uh, It goes to the trash directly.
[00:55:29]  So I don't need to do that.
[00:55:31]  But it does feel like harassment at this point when he's just like he never stops.
[00:55:36]  And how many emails are you getting on?
[00:55:38]  I mean, like, it's usually on like Sunday night when he's lonely.
[00:55:43]  I don't know, like one or two a month.
[00:55:46]  And they're just all the same, they're always the same.
[00:55:49]  And I either get disgusted or like it really pisses me off because it is, it's like harassing me.
[00:55:59]  So, maybe I just need to stop rummaging or pursue a different or look deeper into it.
[00:56:07]  I thought I got to the bottom of it, but.
[00:56:10]  All right.
[00:56:10]  I'm just having a look here.
[00:56:11]  And again, OK, here's a clear list of email programs, desktop classes.
[00:56:17]  Yeah, it's a Gmail.
[00:56:19]  So, I don't know if I'm not like a tech whiz, but if there's a way to do it on Gmail, it's absolutely fine.
[00:56:24]  All you do is you use a program and tie it to your Gmail account.
[00:56:30]  Oh, like a plugin or something.
[00:56:31]  Okay, cool.
[00:56:31]  No, no, it's just like Outlook can receive Gmail, Gmail emails.
[00:56:37]  So I asked list email programs that can delete email from specific emails from the server before downloading them.
[00:56:43]  And something called Mailwasher Pro, and this Mailwasher Free, Thunderbird is free.
[00:56:51]  So use message filters or rules based on sender subject keywords to automatically delete matching emails from the server before or upon download so that you don't see them.
[00:57:01]  At all.
[00:57:01]  You can do that with Microsoft Outlet, Apple Mail, something called Mailbird.
[00:57:06]  Anyway, you can.
[00:57:08]  I appreciate that.
[00:57:09]  Yeah, I didn't know, like, I just didn't think of that at all.
[00:57:12]  So I appreciate that.
[00:57:13]  And yeah, for sure.
[00:57:14]  For sure.
[00:57:14]  I'll look into that because, you know, no sense in spiking my cortisol, you know, twice a month for no reason.
[00:57:20]  So.
[00:57:21]  Oh, yeah.
[00:57:22]  No, you don't want that stuff because it's just continually triggering, right?
[00:57:26]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
[00:57:27]  So yeah, thanks for that.
[00:57:31]  Many email providers, Gmail, Atlas, Also, offer server side filters or rules you can set up via webmail.
[00:57:36]  These can delete or archive messages before any client touches them.
[00:57:41]  Oh, wow.
[00:57:42]  So, anyway, you can, Grok is usually the best AI.
[00:57:46]  You can do all of this and you don't need my, obviously, smart enough to do all of this yourself.
[00:57:50]  But yeah, you never have to see the emails.
[00:57:55]  It's appreciated for sure.

=== Regret Over Leaving Family Money (15:27) ===

[00:57:56]  So, you know, my last little offshoot question, and it's related, but.
[00:58:05]  Could I ask you one more thing about down the line?
[00:58:11]  A question about, you know, I don't know how to frame it because it's not the morality of it, but in terms of like things like an inheritance or funerals or, you know, just I don't want to have any regrets.
[00:58:29]  Like I said, I want to guard my peace.
[00:58:33]  But I've the last lingering, last niggling thing in my mind has always been like, well, like I'm going to get a call one day from someone somehow or a LinkedIn message or something.
[00:58:45]  Saying you got to go back to XYZ and clean out the house.
[00:58:51]  Yes.
[00:58:51]  No, I've had that call.
[00:58:53]  Yeah.
[00:58:54]  Wow.
[00:58:55]  Holy man.
[00:58:57]  Yeah, I assume some experience on this, but yeah, go ahead.
[00:58:59]  Sorry.
[00:59:00]  Yeah.
[00:59:00]  Yeah.
[00:59:00]  And so, and so I, so my question is like, yeah, I would love to hear, of course, only share with, you know, what you're comfortable with, but your take on that.
[00:59:12]  And then also, like, you know, like in terms of like, An inheritance, or you know, if my parents still want me to leave money to me, or probably not me, but my kids, um, issues like that go clean out the house, the funeral.
[00:59:26]  We need someone to do this, buy this, got to sort the funeral.
[00:59:29]  And it's been on my mind for a couple of years, and uh, I just I'm at a loss.
[00:59:35]  I just don't even know.
[00:59:37]  Like, my only instinct is, I don't want to say ghost, but like, you know, just to sorry, you're at a loss about what?
[00:59:45]  At a loss to like.
[00:59:46]  Figure out the answer that.
[00:59:49]  No, but answer to what question?
[00:59:52]  What to do if my parents want to, you know, after they die, if they want to like leave me, if they had it in their will to leave me money or my kids money or other people in their orbit asking me to go back to the house or telling me, okay, hand.
[01:00:09]  So one thing at a time, one thing at a time.
[01:00:11]  Okay, so if they leave you money, again, I'm no lawyer, right?
[01:00:15]  But my understanding would be if they leave you money, then you get the money.
[01:00:20]  It just comes to you through legal channels, right?
[01:00:24]  Fair.
[01:00:24]  And if they leave your children money, I assume it would be in some sort of trust or something like that, then you would get the money through legal channels, through the probate or whatever's going on with the will.
[01:00:38]  Okay.
[01:00:38]  And that makes sense.
[01:00:39]  And I guess my question is more like I don't know.
[01:00:44]  Like it just feels like I don't talk to them forever.
[01:00:50]  I cut off contact, don't want to associate with them, talk to them, but.
[01:00:54]  Them going to take money from them.
[01:00:57]  Like, I'm not saying I have an answer either way, but that I don't feel right taking money from them for me or my children after completely leaving my family of origin and disconnecting.
[01:01:09]  I just feel like well, then you can give the money to charity or donate it to a worthy philosophical course, right?
[01:01:16]  But I mean, if you don't want to take the money, you can give the money to a worthy course or whatever.
[01:01:22]  Yeah, I feel weird about you know taking the proceeds from their house or any other.
[01:01:27]  Assets they would have, I would feel, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I would feel, I just, I'd feel like almost gross.
[01:01:37]  Like, yeah, I mean, I was offered some money from my father's estate and I said, just give it to another relative who needs it.
[01:01:46]  Right.
[01:01:47]  And you said you got a phone call to head back home and kind of, no, I couldn't do that.
[01:01:53]  It was covered.
[01:01:54]  So I couldn't get to the country.
[01:01:56]  That's right.
[01:01:57]  Okay.
[01:02:00]  Okay.
[01:02:01]  Yeah.
[01:02:02]  But help me understand why it's, I wouldn't say tormenting you, but why is it so much on your mind?
[01:02:10]  And it's not a criticism like, oh, why are you so obsessed?
[01:02:12]  I don't mean that at all.
[01:02:13]  I'm just, this is a, you know, they're likely to live for another 10 years or 15 years or, you know, the average age of death is like mid to late 80s, particularly for, you know, maybe people with some resources or smarter people or whatever, right?
[01:02:32]  Is it on your mind at the moment?
[01:02:35]  I mean, there's nothing imminent, I think.
[01:02:37]  Is that right?
[01:02:38]  Or is it?
[01:02:39]  Yeah, right.
[01:02:40]  Yeah, no, no, I think you're right.
[01:02:42]  I guess I just wanted some like closure that in my mind, I'm sure it doesn't exist, but in my mind, like I've sorted it all out.
[01:02:52]  And if and when I got a phone, I don't know what.
[01:02:57]  Yeah, sorry.
[01:02:57]  That's not an if.
[01:02:58]  They're not immortal unless you die first, in which case you don't have to worry about that at all.
[01:03:02]  I guess they're not going to merge with the machines.
[01:03:04]  So, when you get the call, right?
[01:03:06]  When I get the call, I wanted to, like, yeah, I guess it's probably just a form of anxiety where I'm thinking I have to, like, tie off on everything in my mind.
[01:03:15]  Okay, but hang on.
[01:03:16]  So, but if you've got something that is unlikely to happen for at least 10 to 15, could be 20 years, right?
[01:03:24]  Then what is it on your mind for at the moment?
[01:03:30]  And it's not a criticism, I'm just curious.
[01:03:33]  Yeah.
[01:03:35]  I think I'm dreading getting those phone calls and I'm trying to.
[01:03:42]  Why are you?
[01:03:43]  And I'm curious about this too.
[01:03:45]  Why are you dreading getting those phone calls or email?
[01:03:49]  No, nobody's got your number.
[01:03:50]  Is that right?
[01:03:51]  So, yeah, why would you dread getting the email that says, well, let's just say they both die in a car crash or something in 10 years from now or whatever, right?
[01:03:59]  And there's an email that says, your parents both died in a car crash.
[01:04:03]  Why are you dreading that?
[01:04:06]  And again, I'm not saying you shouldn't dread it.
[01:04:07]  I'm just curious why you do.
[01:04:10]  I think it's some lingering sentimentality and thinking it's just so sad what happened.
[01:04:19]  That, you know, thinking of my mom getting sick and she's all alone and she's suffering and she's alone and she's scared and sick and that it ended up that way.
[01:04:32]  And I, Don't want either of my parents.
[01:04:33]  You mean it ended up that way?
[01:04:35]  What does that mean?
[01:04:37]  These are all the result of specific daily choices.
[01:04:41]  Yeah.
[01:04:42]  I'm not there.
[01:04:42]  You've got your standards, right?
[01:04:44]  So I'm not sure what you mean by it ended up that way.
[01:04:47]  Like if you've got some uncle who smokes like a chimney and you tell him, man, you've got to stop smoking and then he gets sick, it doesn't end up that way.
[01:04:54]  That's every cigarette he smokes raised the odds, right?
[01:04:57]  Yeah.
[01:04:58]  Yeah.
[01:04:58]  No.
[01:04:58]  Yeah.
[01:04:59]  And yes.
[01:05:01]  And logically, I totally know that.
[01:05:04]  But I still feel bad.
[01:05:07]  Okay.
[01:05:08]  And would you like to not feel bad?
[01:05:10]  I assume that's partly why you're calling me, right?
[01:05:13]  Yeah.
[01:05:13]  Okay.
[01:05:14]  Yeah.
[01:05:14]  That's the last bit.
[01:05:15]  It was just like, yeah, I think you got to the heart of it.
[01:05:17]  Like, it's not all these logistical things of who's going to do what.
[01:05:20]  I think, yeah, it's that I'm going to feel bad.
[01:05:23]  You are concerned about regret.
[01:05:26]  Yes.
[01:05:27]  And there's still things that you, and again, none of this is critical, right?
[01:05:31]  But there's still things you haven't processed about your parents dying.
[01:05:36]  That you're afraid are going to hit you after the fact with regret.
[01:05:38]  And oh my gosh, I should have done this.
[01:05:40]  And oh, you know, because there's this curse, right?
[01:05:42]  This general curse that's put out, particularly against the victims of child abuse.
[01:05:48]  Oh, but when they're dead, you're going to regret it.
[01:05:50]  You're going to regret not reaching out and you'll regret it for the rest of your life.
[01:05:53]  There's this weird, freaking gypsy curse that is put on the victims of child abuse.
[01:06:01]  And you're afraid of that curse.
[01:06:03]  It's almost like being haunted, right?
[01:06:05]  Yeah.
[01:06:06]  And you're afraid that you will have bitter regrets and there'll be this big onrush of, oh my gosh, I shoulda, woulda, coulda kind of stuff, right?
[01:06:14]  It's, to be honest, I don't, it's not so much the second part of it, like woulda, coulda, shoulda.
[01:06:21]  It's like, I just, I feel so bad for them.
[01:06:28]  Again, I know it's their choices, but I still, Feel bad.
[01:06:32]  Like the thought of my mom suffering, it's like, cause she seems, I guess she seems so like, like weak.
[01:06:41]  The thought of her being weak and old and helpless, and, or even the fact that if I just went into the hospital, let's just say in the future, I went to the hospital and I held her hand and she could see me one last time to, like, to give her a fleeting moment of joy or talk to her or laugh about something.
[01:07:01]  I don't see myself doing that, but I sometimes think I know I'm not responsible to like bring her joy in that way and to like fill the gaping hole in her heart.
[01:07:11]  But I remember a recent podcast you uploaded, super recently, actually, I think.
[01:07:19]  And you mentioned about your dad, and you didn't get the phone call, and no one gave you the opportunity or something like that.
[01:07:25]  And I don't know if you said that you would have liked the chance to see him in his final moments.
[01:07:32]  Can't really remember.
[01:07:32]  Oh, God, no.
[01:07:34]  No, I didn't want to see him in his final moments.
[01:07:36]  Interesting.
[01:07:38]  I would have liked to have had a father.
[01:07:39]  Now, maybe I don't even know how he died, right?
[01:07:42]  Maybe he got hit by a bus.
[01:07:44]  But I assume, given his age, that he knew that he was ill.
[01:07:48]  He knew that there was probably, at some point, the doctors just kind of shake their head and say, all we can do is make you comfortable and so on.
[01:07:54]  I would have liked to have had the kind of father who would have contacted me.
[01:07:59]  But I didn't.
[01:08:02]  Right.
[01:08:02]  Okay.
[01:08:04]  I would like to have had the kind of father where I would rush to his bedside, but I didn't.
[01:08:09]  What would your take have been if he did contact you?
[01:08:12]  What are you talking about?
[01:08:14]  I mean, if he did reach out and say.
[01:08:15]  You mean if he was an entirely different human being?
[01:08:19]  Then he wouldn't be my father.
[01:08:22]  Yeah.
[01:08:24]  That'd be like saying, well, if my wife was a man, I'd be gay.
[01:08:27]  But she's not.
[01:08:29]  Last time I checked.
[01:08:30]  Yeah.
[01:08:30]  And I'm trying to.
[01:08:32]  No, help me understand these questions.
[01:08:34]  What if your father had been an entirely different human being?
[01:08:38]  I wasn't exactly sure.
[01:08:40]  No, you kind of were.
[01:08:41]  I'm not offended by it, but you kind of were.
[01:08:43]  I mean, I'm thinking, I'm thinking like, I know my dad's going to reach out.
[01:08:46]  The information is going to get to me somehow.
[01:08:48]  Like, your dad's in his final hours and he wants to see you.
[01:08:51]  And I'm going to have a decision to make.
[01:08:54]  And again, it's not an imminent thing.
[01:08:59]  I don't know why I'm thinking about this.
[01:09:01]  But I know he will reach out.
[01:09:03]  And why will he reach out?
[01:09:06]  To see me or his grandkids one last time.
[01:09:09]  But yes, but why?
[01:09:11]  Because he's lonely.
[01:09:13]  So it'll be for him.
[01:09:15]  Yeah.
[01:09:16]  Will he reach out because he thinks it will be beneficial to you?
[01:09:21]  He might say, you know, something like, I mean, he said when my grandma passed away a few weeks ago, come back, you know, see her one last time.
[01:09:32]  You don't want to have any regrets.
[01:09:33]  You'll regret this.
[01:09:34]  I saw you someone saying this bullshit.
[01:09:37]  Yeah.
[01:09:38]  Yeah.
[01:09:39]  He's always curious on you.
[01:09:42]  Yeah, and it was like an opportunity for him to kind of emotionally manipulate me and use the gravity situation to kind of get me to go back to that state and have the possibility of seeing me.
[01:09:53]  So, yeah.
[01:09:55]  Right.
[01:09:56]  So, would he think about what would be beneficial for you?
[01:10:03]  No.
[01:10:03]  Oh, he definitely would not.
[01:10:06]  So then you don't go.
[01:10:08]  Now, my father, I think of all the family members, did not reach out to me the most, so to speak, right?
[01:10:18]  Now, why did my father stay in contact with my brother, other people, but not me?
[01:10:27]  They were not interfering with him, observing his ego.
[01:10:31]  Well, because I'm honest.
[01:10:34]  Right.
[01:10:35]  I mean, I told him what happened in my childhood.
[01:10:37]  I told him how angry I was at him abandoning me.
[01:10:41]  And I told him stuff that my mother had done.
[01:10:43]  And I told him all of that.
[01:10:46]  Yeah, same.
[01:10:47]  So for my father, again, I don't know.
[01:10:50]  His mind is now many years dust.
[01:10:53]  But for my father, for him to contact me, And to apologize and to make his peace and so on, right?
[01:11:03]  Would have benefited me, if that makes sense.
[01:11:07]  But it would not have benefited him.
[01:11:11]  Yeah.
[01:11:11]  Because he would have to admit that he did great wrong and he would feel bad, right?
[01:11:17]  Yeah.
[01:11:18]  And he would not act in a way that benefited me at his own expense.
[01:11:25]  He would only act in a way that harmed me.
[01:11:28]  To his benefit.
[01:11:30]  In other words, it was harmful for me that my father never took responsibility for what happened to me as a child.
[01:11:37]  Yeah.
[01:11:37]  But he didn't like taking responsibility because it would make him feel bad.
[01:11:42]  So, to his very grave, my father did what was best for him at my expense.
[01:11:51]  Yeah.
[01:11:52]  That makes a lot of sense.
[01:11:52]  There's just no consideration.
[01:11:54]  I've seen the dozens and dozens of emails.
[01:11:56]  I hear you on that.
[01:11:58]  Yeah.
[01:11:59]  It's me, me, me, I, I, I, I, I'm having a heart attack.
[01:12:01]  I'm dying.
[01:12:01]  I can't, I'm not going to live.
[01:12:03]  I need this, me, come back, you know.
[01:12:05]  Sorry, he tells you he's dying?
[01:12:08]  He would occasionally say he thinks he's having a heart attack or something.
[01:12:12]  Like in the early days of the estrangement, yeah, he would say that there were health issues and things.
[01:12:20]  And sometimes they were like super imminent.
[01:12:22]  He had a heart attack in the past and he would say, My chest is getting tight.
[01:12:25]  I haven't heard from you in months now.
[01:12:26]  And my chest is getting tight.
[01:12:27]  I think I'm having a heart attack.
[01:12:29]  He did that for a while.
[01:12:30]  So he basically accused you of killing him with your distance.
[01:12:34]  You 100% did that multiple times shortly after the initial separation.
[01:12:42]  So, I'll tell you something about, in my view, again, just in amateur opinion the personality disorders is just pure fucking hedonism.
[01:12:52]  That's all it is.
[01:12:54]  It's just hedonism.
[01:12:55]  My father was a hedonist, even though he was an ascetic in some areas, because taking responsibility for what he caused in my life would make him feel bad.
[01:13:04]  Avoiding those topics made him feel good.
[01:13:08]  So he just operated as, to me, personality disorders, they just operate on the pleasure pain principle.
[01:13:16]  They do what feels good and they avoid what feels bad, like the lower animals.

=== Hedonism as a Personality Disorder (02:06) ===

[01:13:24]  And the reason why we have to have an observing ego that compares our actions to ideal standards is that it's the only thing that can counteract.
[01:13:36]  I mean, if everybody just ate whatever they wanted and didn't exercise if they didn't feel like it, we'd all be, you know, fat and sick, right?
[01:13:44]  Right.
[01:13:44]  Fish eat until they die.
[01:13:46]  Right.
[01:13:46]  Right.
[01:13:47]  So your father doesn't have any principle called honesty or empathy or curiosity or directness.
[01:13:58]  He only has what levers do I push or pull to get what I fucking want?
[01:14:05]  Yeah, I've often said that to my wife.
[01:14:07]  Yeah.
[01:14:07]  So you're like a vending machine and he put his goddamn money in.
[01:14:12]  Where's his bag of chips?
[01:14:14]  And he's going to thump it.
[01:14:15]  He's going to rock it.
[01:14:16]  He's going to reach and grope up.
[01:14:18]  He's owed that bag of chips, man.
[01:14:21]  Yeah, for sure.
[01:14:22]  That's how he feels.
[01:14:25]  So that's just hedonism.
[01:14:27]  Right.
[01:14:28]  You know, it's not too hard to get things from people.
[01:14:32]  All you have to do is what?
[01:14:35]  Reciprocate intimacy, curiosity, explore their inner world, you know, add value, add value, and succinctly add value.
[01:14:40]  Yeah.
[01:14:42]  I've been in sales.
[01:14:43]  I mean, I'm still in sales.
[01:14:44]  I'm selling philosophy.
[01:14:46]  It's not that hard to get what you want from people.
[01:14:48]  You say to someone, hey, what do you want?
[01:14:51]  And then you provide it.
[01:14:53]  And then they reciprocate.
[01:14:54]  Of course, right, right.
[01:14:57]  And so, sorry, go ahead.
[01:14:59]  No, of course.
[01:14:59]  Did your father, what field did your father work in?
[01:15:03]  Wait for it.
[01:15:04]  Sales.
[01:15:04]  There you go.
[01:15:05]  Right.
[01:15:06]  So, your father, I actually kind of knew that even before you said it, which is easy to say after the fact, but I just remember thinking, geez, wouldn't it be ironic if this guy was in sales?
[01:15:14]  So, in sales, you have to ask your customer what your customer wants and then work to provide it.
[01:15:21]  So, he knows all of this.
[01:15:23]  Yeah, for sure.
[01:15:24]  Was he like a low rent herb, tarlac, cheesy salesman or did he do fairly well?

=== Empathy Interferes With Hedonism (15:53) ===

[01:15:30]  He did very well.
[01:15:30]  Okay.
[01:15:31]  So he knows that it is important to ask what your customer wants or anyone and work to provide it, right?
[01:15:39]  Yep.
[01:15:40]  So he doesn't want to do that.
[01:15:44]  He's literally like someone you go to buy a car, and the car salesman says, If you don't buy a car from me today, I'm going to shoot my children's dog.
[01:15:55]  If you don't buy a car from me today, I'm having a heart attack, and it's on your conscience.
[01:16:00]  Oh, I'm getting chest pains because you haven't bought the car.
[01:16:04]  Oh, I had a heart attack just two years ago.
[01:16:06]  Oh, you got to buy the car.
[01:16:07]  Like, that's psycho.
[01:16:09]  Right.
[01:16:09]  Well, that's what type of car you're looking for.
[01:16:11]  What brings you here?
[01:16:11]  Yeah.
[01:16:11]  Like, you know, let's see if we can find something that's going to work for you.
[01:16:17]  Yes.
[01:16:19]  That's right.
[01:16:21]  So, I mean, he really doesn't have any excuse at all.
[01:16:24]  Yeah.
[01:16:25]  It's just harassment and, you know, I got to tell you, I mean, you're a dad.
[01:16:31]  I'm a dad.
[01:16:32]  I'm a little further down the road, but you've got two.
[01:16:34]  I only had one.
[01:16:35]  So let's just say it kind of evens out.
[01:16:37]  I mean, how attached are your kids to you?
[01:16:40]  Like a barnacle.
[01:16:41]  Yeah.
[01:16:42]  Yeah.
[01:16:42]  It's like a limpet mind, right?
[01:16:45]  Yeah.
[01:16:45]  It's like trying to get free of, I don't know, a teenage boy if you're a girl or some sort of squid or a tentacle or something like that, right?
[01:16:53]  So your kids, like, do you realize how much you have to screw up to alienate your children?
[01:16:57]  They're so attached.
[01:16:59]  It's crazy.
[01:17:00]  Right.
[01:17:00]  Right.
[01:17:00]  And the fact that I've been so cold, I felt this way for so long.
[01:17:04]  I've often Thought that, like, wow, like, I mean, just not missing him at all, like, just completely walled off, dead, like nothing.
[01:17:11]  And you're right.
[01:17:12]  Couldn't imagine that with my kids.
[01:17:15]  I mean, they're like the most delightful quicksand imaginable.
[01:17:18]  Yeah.
[01:17:18]  I mean, there's an old movie, Brewster's Millions, I think it is, where a guy, in order to get $100 million, he has to spend, I don't know, $10 million overnight or something like that, right?
[01:17:29]  And it turns out to be a really hard job.
[01:17:32]  It's really hard to burn through $10 million in one night.
[01:17:38]  Couldn't you just short crude oil?
[01:17:40]  Yeah, these days, right?
[01:17:41]  But you have to do it in a way that the average Hollywood audience would understand.
[01:17:45]  So it has to be material.
[01:17:46]  Objects, right?
[01:17:49]  So, my point is, it's like for parents, you are born with such an excess of goodwill.
[01:17:55]  As a father, your children are born so attached to you, so dependent upon you, so like jumping up and down, daddy, daddy, daddy, when you come home, right?
[01:18:03]  So thrilled to see you.
[01:18:04]  Like, you really have to work hard to fuck that up.
[01:18:08]  Yeah.
[01:18:09]  It's one of the most, if not the most powerful attachments in the world.
[01:18:14]  Right.
[01:18:15]  And when my parents separated when I was five, I've often heard you say, what keeps A man married, not the only thing, but one of the main things, you know, post menopause, you know, getting older, it's the bond with the child that makes you want to stay for the child's benefit, amongst many other things, and your wife's virtues, of course.
[01:18:36]  But there, how could there have been any real bond with me if he left when I was five?
[01:18:45]  Well, but the bond that you had with him is like, you know, there's weak and strong atomic forces, it's the strongest thing.
[01:18:54]  The bond that children have with their parents, regardless of whether the parents have a bond with the children.
[01:19:00]  And in fact, if the parents don't have a bond with children, sometimes the child bond goes even stronger because they have to kind of make up for that.
[01:19:09]  So, you know, it's hard to burn through that much goodwill as a parent.
[01:19:13]  I mean, we should never take it for granted, but children will always be happy and eager to forgive their parents.
[01:19:21]  I mean, it's baked into our DNA.
[01:19:24]  Right.
[01:19:24]  For a teenager or a young adult to say, I don't miss you.
[01:19:29]  I never want to pick up when I see you.
[01:19:32]  I mean, you know, it's crazy.
[01:19:35]  I mean, you've gone through this.
[01:19:37]  I went through it as a pioneer in this area, which is going no contact with your parents is considered what by most of society?
[01:19:49]  Anathema, blasphemy.
[01:19:50]  Horrendous.
[01:19:51]  It's considered horrendous.
[01:19:53]  And if you go no contact with abusive parents, Who does society believe automatically is at fault?
[01:20:02]  Me, us, the kid.
[01:20:03]  No, no, no.
[01:20:04]  You've got to be intolerant.
[01:20:05]  You've got to learn how to forgive.
[01:20:07]  You must have joined that crazy online internet cult.
[01:20:10]  You know, whatever it is, right?
[01:20:11]  You're too sensitive.
[01:20:13]  You're too sensitive.
[01:20:14]  You know, you have to understand they did the best they could with the knowledge they had.
[01:20:18]  You've got to learn how to be more kind and more forgiving.
[01:20:21]  And they came from a different era.
[01:20:22]  And you shouldn't be too judgmental.
[01:20:23]  And boom, boom, boom, right?
[01:20:25]  It's just boom, boom.
[01:20:26]  Fists into the solar plexus.
[01:20:28]  Buckle the fuck down and go back to your parents.
[01:20:31]  Now, nobody says that shit to women who leave their husbands.
[01:20:34]  Yeah.
[01:20:35]  Even if they're children involved.
[01:20:37]  Yeah.
[01:20:38]  Did your mother get ostracized when your parents split up?
[01:20:41]  No, she was just.
[01:20:43]  No, everyone comes together.
[01:20:44]  Oh, yes, he was terrible, dear.
[01:20:45]  Oh, I'm so glad you're out.
[01:20:48]  You did the right thing for the children.
[01:20:50]  You've got to stand up for yourself.
[01:20:51]  You've got to be strong.
[01:20:53]  You can't just be sub.
[01:20:54]  Like, they just cheer everyone on.
[01:20:56]  Even though your parents chose each other, we never chose our parents, right?
[01:21:01]  Right.
[01:21:02]  So.
[01:21:03]  Yeah, it's a great way to frame it, really.
[01:21:06]  Well, so what that means is that to go no contact with abusive parents, or in this case, you had a combination, it sounds like, of abuse and neglect, because people who are that selfish and hedonistic.
[01:21:18]  Like, you can't be a hedonist and have empathy, because empathy is that which teaches you to sacrifice your own particular immediate pleasures for the sake of some larger good.
[01:21:28]  And people who are hedonists, who are narcissists, who are selfish, they can't.
[01:21:34]  Have empathy because empathy interferes with their hedonism.
[01:21:37]  They might have performative empathy, like this virtue signaling or whatever, but they won't have genuine empathy.
[01:21:42]  So you were also neglected because your parents, it sounds like, and correct me if I'm wrong, of course, but it sounds like your parents did not have any meaningful curiosity about who you were as a person and what made you tick and what you liked and what you didn't like.
[01:21:58]  Yeah.
[01:21:59]  My mom did, but not my dad.
[01:22:01]  Your mom did?
[01:22:02]  I mean, yeah, she was incredibly abusive too, but it was a roller coaster.
[01:22:08]  Yeah.
[01:22:08]  I mean, okay, listen, I'm always happy to be surprised in conversations.
[01:22:12]  So, your mother, who was incredibly abusive, was also very kind.
[01:22:16]  I'm not disagreeing with you.
[01:22:17]  I'm just, I'm a bit surprised, but I'm always happy to be instructed and learn new things that I wouldn't expect.
[01:22:23]  If you zoom out, no.
[01:22:26]  Were there, there were a lot of moments in my childhood for sure that, you know, we would have great conversations and enjoy things or go to movies, have deep conversations.
[01:22:37]  We were into classical music.
[01:22:40]  Way, way deep into that, go to concerts.
[01:22:42]  I was practicing music.
[01:22:43]  She was very into it with me.
[01:22:46]  But yeah, it was also tons of horrible moments, too.
[01:22:52]  So hang on.
[01:22:53]  Is it my understanding?
[01:22:54]  And I'm not disagreeing with you.
[01:22:55]  I just want to understand your perspective.
[01:22:57]  Is it my understanding that sometimes your mother had genuine empathy and sometimes she was cruel and sadistic?
[01:23:06]  Right.
[01:23:06]  I see what you're saying.
[01:23:07]  No, again, I'm not trying to mock you or anything like that.
[01:23:10]  I just really want to understand.
[01:23:12]  You know, how could it be genuine if it was a roller coaster like that?
[01:23:19]  Well, I mean, my mother, we'd have great conversations.
[01:23:22]  We would do the crossword together.
[01:23:24]  She helped me with my books and she helped me prepare for my audition for theater school.
[01:23:30]  So, I mean, I don't view that as her veering from kindness to cruelty.
[01:23:37]  I view that when she was in a good mood and wanted to do something, she would do it.
[01:23:42]  But if she was in a bad mood or angry, You were in danger.
[01:23:46]  It was just moodiness up and down, not any genuine empathy.
[01:23:51]  Because if you have genuine empathy, then the other person's thoughts and feelings are always on your mind.
[01:23:57]  It's not like sort of, sort of, right?
[01:24:00]  For sure.
[01:24:01]  For sure.
[01:24:01]  My wife, like 24 7, she's like, is he hungry?
[01:24:04]  Does he need soap?
[01:24:05]  Well, no, she knows that I need soap.
[01:24:08]  Does he need a nap?
[01:24:09]  Do I need to put him on a sofa for a little while with some headphones?
[01:24:14]  Does he need yet another microphone?
[01:24:17]  Does he need another computer?
[01:24:19]  I mean, Lord knows we only have a computer shop's worth.
[01:24:22]  I'm sure there's more computers that he needs.
[01:24:26]  So it's constant.
[01:24:27]  It's obviously fear based for the most part.
[01:24:31]  But no, I mean, my wife says that she thinks about the people in her life all the time.
[01:24:36]  And I do too.
[01:24:37]  I mean, I think about what would make my friends happier, my daughter happier, my wife happier.
[01:24:45]  And it's not eclipsed where I then want to scream at them.
[01:24:49]  It doesn't come and go like that.
[01:24:51]  It's like saying, like, Stalin could be great fun.
[01:24:56]  He was actually a very good singer, a fine tenor, and he liked singing with people.
[01:25:00]  He could be a lot of fun.
[01:25:02]  Serial killers have their charms as well, they could be very convivial.
[01:25:07]  I'm obviously not saying your mother is Stalin or a serial killer.
[01:25:11]  But what I'm saying is that I don't think it's like there's a nice side to someone and there's an evil side to someone.
[01:25:21]  Right.
[01:25:22]  I definitely.
[01:25:24]  Like a con man will be really charming and convincing and show great interest in your hobbies and compliment your wife and, you know, hey, I'd love to read your short story.
[01:25:34]  And like, but he's doing that.
[01:25:35]  Why?
[01:25:36]  To get what he wants.
[01:25:37]  Yeah, to rob you.
[01:25:39]  Yeah.
[01:25:40]  Right.
[01:25:40]  So, yeah.
[01:25:41]  And it was like Jekyll and Hyde in my teenage years, for sure.
[01:25:46]  Like, that's when they got properly divorced.
[01:25:47]  It was just Jekyll and Hyde.
[01:25:48]  You never knew what you were getting.
[01:25:49]  Sorry, five to your teenage years?
[01:25:50]  They separated at five and got divorced in your teens?
[01:25:54]  Yeah.
[01:25:54]  So they separated when I was five.
[01:25:56]  They got back together when I was nine, but only lasted two years.
[01:26:01]  Yeah.
[01:26:01]  And then they got divorced for good.
[01:26:03]  So when the divorce actually happened, when I was, let's say, 12, that's really when.
[01:26:09]  It escalated.
[01:26:11]  And so, yeah, it was kind of like Jekyll and Hyde, not knowing which version you would get that day.
[01:26:16]  Well, but it's the same person.
[01:26:19]  Yeah.
[01:26:19]  It just depends.
[01:26:20]  And that's a hedonist.
[01:26:21]  So, a hedonist says, I'm in a good mood, I'll be fun.
[01:26:25]  I'm in a bad mood, I'll be a terrorist.
[01:26:28]  Like they just indulge their moods.
[01:26:30]  They don't have a standard of good behavior, they don't have empathy to moderate their mood swings.
[01:26:36]  It was like adult tantrums, really, that just got.
[01:26:39]  Side of hand.
[01:26:40]  Yeah, you see a kid, they have a tantrum, you give them the candy, and then they're fine, right?
[01:26:43]  It's not real.
[01:26:44]  It's not a real emotion.
[01:26:45]  It's just a manipulation.
[01:26:48]  Yeah, that's very valuable.
[01:26:50]  So your parents are every day, especially if your father has these sales skills, right?
[01:27:01]  Then your parents are every day choosing, and your father is seeing a therapist.
[01:27:07]  And I'm sure that the therapist is trying to give him some emotional tools.
[01:27:14]  And so, with his sales knowledge and his knowledge of therapy, he could simply say, I've been going about this all wrong.
[01:27:23]  I'm so sorry.
[01:27:24]  I've messed this up.
[01:27:25]  I'm realizing that I was not good as a father for you.
[01:27:31]  And I chose the wrong mother for my children.
[01:27:33]  And it was all humility and humbleness that I just want to listen to your experience of me as a father and your mother as a mother and what it's been like for you.
[01:27:45]  I see you doing a much better job than I ever did.
[01:27:49]  And I've got to be humble about that.
[01:27:51]  Something like that.
[01:27:52]  I don't know what it would be, right?
[01:27:54]  Yeah.
[01:27:54]  Well, Haley's comment will come sooner.
[01:27:57]  Well, so what I'm saying is that he's got a coach now and he's got all these sales skills.
[01:28:03]  So he knows that you have to ask the customer what the customer wants to try to provide it.
[01:28:07]  So the reason why you're sentimental is you think that the abuse, the neglect, the negativity was all in the past.
[01:28:18]  It's every moment of every day, my friend.
[01:28:21]  It continues now.
[01:28:24]  Whenever I would get sentimental about my father, what I would say is this every day, every minute, every hour, he is choosing not to contact me.
[01:28:39]  He is choosing not to ask me how I'm doing.
[01:28:43]  He is choosing to continue to put this burden.
[01:28:48]  Of my childhood on me.
[01:28:51]  My father not contacting me cost me tens of thousands of dollars in therapy.
[01:28:58]  It had me stuck in bad relationships, or not great relationships, through my 20s.
[01:29:04]  It meant I had to do all the fucking work myself.
[01:29:09]  And it continued.
[01:29:12]  He could have given me great relief from childhood.
[01:29:19]  Anytime, anytime over the past, I don't know, what was I, 57 or 56 when he died?
[01:29:26]  So, you know, bro had more than half a fucking century to lift this burden from my shoulders.
[01:29:32]  And every day he chose not to.
[01:29:35]  That's true.
[01:29:36]  And he knows it's a burden.
[01:29:37]  I mean, yeah.
[01:29:38]  Yeah.
[01:29:39]  I've said it a million times before I went no contact.
[01:29:42]  Yeah.
[01:29:43]  And he just, I mean, it's so.
[01:29:46]  And that's why I say talk to your parents so they don't have an excuse.
[01:29:48]  Sorry, go ahead.
[01:29:50]  Yeah.
[01:29:50]  No, and how easy is it to go to someone and say, like, how do I remedy this?
[01:29:53]  Or go to a professional, go to a friend who's, you know, someone you know who seems to have it together.
[01:29:58]  Like, what do I do?
[01:29:59]  Like, my son, like, will talk to me.
[01:30:01]  He, Yes, he's going to therapies and he keeps saying, just call me.
[01:30:06]  Can we just sit down, man?
[01:30:07]  Can we just talk about it?
[01:30:08]  Can we just sit down?
[01:30:09]  And that's his needs.
[01:30:12]  When has he referenced what you need?
[01:30:15]  Well, that's right.
[01:30:16]  And that's why I recognize the content of every email for the past two and a half years is all the same, except with various degrees of gaslighting and manipulation.
[01:30:26]  Right.
[01:30:27]  So let me ask you this.
[01:30:28]  Sorry to interrupt.
[01:30:29]  No, you know what?
[01:30:30]  Let me not interrupt.
[01:30:31]  You go ahead.
[01:30:31]  Sorry.
[01:30:34]  Various degrees of gaslighting and manipulation, you were saying.
[01:30:37]  Yeah.
[01:30:37]  So I recognize that the content of every message is the same.
[01:30:39]  So I think, well, the content is always the same.
[01:30:42]  I don't know what this therapist is doing, but the content is still the same.
[01:30:45]  And so why do I want to reach out?
[01:30:47]  Why do I want to have that man to man talk final?
[01:30:49]  Like the content has not changed.
[01:30:51]  So that's why I'm not doing it.
[01:30:53]  And why has the content not changed, although it is not working?
[01:30:59]  Because of the hedonism you described.
[01:31:01]  Break it out a bit more if you don't mind.
[01:31:04]  Because there is something that he wants and he's pulling any lever that he thinks will work to get it.
[01:31:16]  No, he's not.
[01:31:16]  No, he's not.
[01:31:18]  He's doing the same thing over and over.
[01:31:20]  Right, right.
[01:31:20]  So the real answer is why has the content not changed?

=== Refusing to Face the Truth (15:06) ===

[01:31:24]  It's because he can't face the truth.
[01:31:27]  He can't face the fact.
[01:31:30]  He can't face how he neglected me.
[01:31:32]  He can't face how he wasn't a father at all.
[01:31:35]  He can't face.
[01:31:38]  That all of his prior conceptions were lies that he told himself.
[01:31:45]  Right.
[01:31:46]  Yeah.
[01:31:46]  I mean, my father wrote me a letter every week for years and Now, he had atrocious handwriting, and none of the contents were of any interest to me.
[01:32:01]  I had to really, like, sometimes I have to hold it sideways up against the light to try and puzzle out what the hell he was saying.
[01:32:07]  So, he didn't ask me what I wanted to talk about.
[01:32:12]  He didn't ask me what would be the most interesting thing for me.
[01:32:14]  He didn't ask me.
[01:32:15]  He would just tell me, I went here, I did this, I met these people, I went on this trip, and so and so is doing well.
[01:32:21]  Again, just stuff like that, right?
[01:32:23]  Yep.
[01:32:24]  So, it had nothing to do with me.
[01:32:27]  That's what I always tell my wife.
[01:32:28]  Like, this is not, none of these are about me.
[01:32:31]  You don't show up.
[01:32:33]  So, why is he doing what he's doing?
[01:32:35]  Is it because he wants, To be in contact with you?
[01:32:40]  No, because he's not asking you what you need or want, or asking his therapist what you think he needs or wants.
[01:32:46]  Or if he knows you listen to what I do, listening to some of these shows, or whatever it is, right?
[01:32:50]  And saying, oh, okay, so this is kind of what's needed, or this is what would help, or whatever it is, right?
[01:32:57]  So why is he emailing you?
[01:33:03]  Why does he keep emailing you with the same strategy that just doesn't work?
[01:33:09]  Work.
[01:33:10]  Oh, okay.
[01:33:10]  I was going to say because he's lonely, but that's not answering his question.
[01:33:13]  No, because if he was lonely, then he'd say, gee, what's the best way to get him to call me back?
[01:33:18]  I was going to say that, but I now see that's not the answer and that it's that he wants me to crack.
[01:33:24]  He's trying to crack me and break me.
[01:33:28]  Oh.
[01:33:30]  He's angry.
[01:33:31]  So think of a stalker, right?
[01:33:35]  Some woman goes out on a date with a guy.
[01:33:37]  She finds him really creepy and she doesn't want to go out with him again.
[01:33:40]  And then he stalks her.
[01:33:41]  Why does he stalk her?
[01:33:42]  Because he's angry.
[01:33:45]  Your father knows you because he grew up with you.
[01:33:50]  You grew up with him.
[01:33:51]  He knows that this is disconcerting to you.
[01:33:53]  He knows that this is upsetting to you.
[01:33:56]  You upset him, he upsets you back.
[01:33:58]  You make him angry, he's going to.
[01:34:01]  Mess you, mess with your head.
[01:34:03]  Yeah, I hear you.
[01:34:05]  And the tone of the emails, though, it's like, maybe you can go deeper into that because the tone is never like, how dare, it's never like an angry tone.
[01:34:14]  I'm not saying you're wrong.
[01:34:16]  It's never an angry tone.
[01:34:16]  It's always, would you please, you said go to therapy.
[01:34:18]  I'm going to therapy.
[01:34:19]  I'm doing it.
[01:34:20]  Come on, can we please talk?
[01:34:21]  I miss you.
[01:34:21]  I want to see my grandkids.
[01:34:22]  It's never an angry tone, but you're saying that.
[01:34:25]  No, but that's what would mess you up the most.
[01:34:27]  Because if he was saying you have an asshole for a son, how dare you, that would be easier for you.
[01:34:32]  He's doing that which is most difficult for you because he's a smart guy who knows what makes you tick.
[01:34:37]  Right.
[01:34:37]  He's playing the heartstrings.
[01:34:38]  Because it's working.
[01:34:40]  You're calling me.
[01:34:41]  Yeah.
[01:34:42]  And I say this, I'm glad you're calling me.
[01:34:43]  This is, I think, useful and helpful to talk about.
[01:34:46]  But he's in your head, right?
[01:34:49]  Yeah.
[01:34:51]  If somebody paid you a million dollars to figure out how not to get emails from your dad, would you have been able to do it?
[01:34:58]  Yes.
[01:34:58]  Of course.
[01:34:59]  Of course you would have.
[01:35:01]  Yeah, I would change my email.
[01:35:02]  No, no, no.
[01:35:03]  And keep your email.
[01:35:07]  Yes.
[01:35:07]  Yeah, absolutely.
[01:35:08]  Absolutely.
[01:35:08]  I mean, honestly, it took me 10 seconds, and you're easily smart enough to figure all that stuff out.
[01:35:14]  So you're locked in a bit of a death spiral with your dad, and you don't want the letters to stop coming, and he doesn't want you to block him permanently.
[01:35:25]  Right.
[01:35:25]  And I do check the truth.
[01:35:26]  I do catch myself.
[01:35:27]  I do often check it.
[01:35:29]  I do check it to see if you email.
[01:35:31]  Yep.
[01:35:32]  So you're looking for.
[01:35:34]  His emails, which is why you haven't blocked him.
[01:35:36]  And that's not a criticism.
[01:35:38]  So, why do you want his emails to come at some level?
[01:35:42]  Wow.
[01:35:42]  I mean, that's an amazing question.
[01:35:47]  Surface level, I couldn't, but I mean, deep down, it's got to be because I'm waiting for him to actually care about me.
[01:35:53]  Aren't you checking because you think there's a possibility of change?
[01:35:57]  So, I think that makes sense because, I mean, logically, I don't like logically, I know it's not going to happen, but like, if you analyze my behavior, you're waiting for the arm to regrow.
[01:36:06]  Yeah, it's the only thing that makes sense.
[01:36:07]  Right.
[01:36:08]  And maybe you were getting close to doing a real block and he sensed that and then went to therapy and is telling you that he's gone to therapy and right.
[01:36:18]  So that now it's like he's dangling some carrot that you just keep snapping at, right?
[01:36:24]  Yeah.
[01:36:25]  It's I'm having a heart attack, then it's your grandma's dying, and then it's now I'm in therapy.
[01:36:30]  You know, it's whack a mole.
[01:36:31]  He is exerting every piece of pressure.
[01:36:37]  Positive and negative.
[01:36:39]  The negative being, I'm dying, your grandmother died.
[01:36:41]  The positive being, and also you'll be cursed with regret if you don't do what he says.
[01:36:47]  And the positive is, I'm going to therapy, I'm dangling, right?
[01:36:50]  So he is exerting every piece of pressure on you, but he only has power over you if you have hope.
[01:37:00]  Yeah, this made me realize that the hope is deep down enough.
[01:37:06]  Still there.
[01:37:07]  Well, and I would argue that you don't actually have hope.
[01:37:10]  He just needs you to have hope and you comply because he's your father.
[01:37:15]  Yeah, that's another angle.
[01:37:16]  Right.
[01:37:17]  You're, again, very intelligent and you've been listening to me for a while and you've done a whole bunch of other self work and so on.
[01:37:23]  And your father, as you pointed out earlier, your father has never had a genuinely self critical moment in his life.
[01:37:30]  So you don't think, just in your own brain, you don't think that there's hope, that he's going to change.
[01:37:38]  But when you were growing up with him, you needed to have the fantasy called hope.
[01:37:44]  Yeah.
[01:37:45]  Because without that fantasy called hope, what's your life like?
[01:37:49]  I mean, you'd probably be suicidal if you were, you know, five, seven, nine, 10, 12, and you had years and years and years to go.
[01:37:58]  And you were in a sort of asylum of cruelty.
[01:38:01]  Yeah.
[01:38:02]  So you got to have hope.
[01:38:04]  And your father needs you to have hope.
[01:38:08]  Because is he asking for read receipts?
[01:38:13]  No.
[01:38:14]  Okay.
[01:38:15]  I don't think so.
[01:38:15]  I don't know.
[01:38:17]  I don't know.
[01:38:17]  Yeah.
[01:38:17]  I don't know if you can find out if people have opened your email.
[01:38:21]  I know you can, but newsletters, but I think people have to click on stuff or whatever.
[01:38:25]  But he emails like nine of my old email addresses and the like, he's emailing like a thousand emails to Hope.
[01:38:32]  Like to get to me, like not just my main email, he's like signing old ones and hitting those.
[01:38:36]  Have you told anyone who might be in contact with him about these emails?
[01:38:43]  Yeah.
[01:38:43]  Oh, so he knows you're reading them.
[01:38:46]  I guess he must.
[01:38:47]  Yeah.
[01:38:49]  I don't mean to startle you, but it seems like if you've told his aunt or whatever, or his sister or brother or someone, then.
[01:38:54]  No, it's a friend.
[01:38:56]  I mean, it's, it's, um, have I told anyone, um, who he could get it out of?
[01:39:03]  Yeah.
[01:39:04]  Yes.
[01:39:04]  Okay.
[01:39:05]  So he most likely knows that you're reading his emails.
[01:39:08]  Yeah.
[01:39:08]  Even if he only sees that person once a year randomly, like, yeah, the conversation would probably go that way.
[01:39:14]  Yes.
[01:39:14]  Well, if he's reaching out to you, he could be reaching out to anyone.
[01:39:18]  Yeah.
[01:39:18]  So who knows, right?
[01:39:19]  Yeah.
[01:39:20]  So odds are that he, in my view, we don't know, right?
[01:39:22]  But odds are that he's reading your emails.
[01:39:25]  I didn't consider that.
[01:39:26]  Right.
[01:39:28]  So you're in a toxic loop.
[01:39:31]  Feels like it.
[01:39:32]  Yeah.
[01:39:33]  And in my view, I can't tell you what to do.
[01:39:35]  I can tell you in my situation, the big thing was there's no arms.
[01:39:41]  They're not going to regrow.
[01:39:42]  Waiting for a guy with no arms is the fool's quest.
[01:39:46]  Yeah.
[01:39:47]  And this level of aggression and acting out is still going on.
[01:39:52]  It sounds like, since this is what you're calling me about, it sounds like this is probably the most upsetting thing that's happening in your life right now.
[01:40:00]  Yeah.
[01:40:01]  And you got to put a stop to it, man.
[01:40:03]  You know why?
[01:40:05]  Yeah.
[01:40:06]  This is bad for your kids.
[01:40:08]  Does it cost you sleep?
[01:40:10]  Yeah.
[01:40:10]  Yeah.
[01:40:11]  I don't doubt it.
[01:40:12]  Agree.
[01:40:13]  I don't doubt it.
[01:40:14]  And does it cost you concentration, spontaneity, joy, connection with your kids?
[01:40:21]  It must.
[01:40:22]  It has to.
[01:40:22]  It must.
[01:40:23]  Even if all it's doing is robbing you of some sleep, that means you're less alert for your kids.
[01:40:27]  Yeah.
[01:40:28]  Yeah.
[01:40:28]  For sure.
[01:40:28]  And even if it's only the email comes in and I see them in the car and I'm driving home, like, I don't want to lose any moment with my kids.
[01:40:33]  I want to be connected and present all the time.
[01:40:35]  They're only young once.
[01:40:36]  I'm all in.
[01:40:38]  So why?
[01:40:38]  Do you want the emails?
[01:40:42]  Why do you need them?
[01:40:44]  Right.
[01:40:45]  Because you're like, good God, I'm going to a lawyer.
[01:40:49]  How can I legally prevent him from, like, you're opening them?
[01:40:53]  Yeah, makes sense.
[01:40:53]  You're not finding a way to get them never to come to your computer.
[01:40:57]  Right.
[01:40:58]  Why am I doing it?
[01:40:58]  I mean, I think the last thing is there's still some remnants.
[01:41:06]  I'm a man of action, and everything you said made sense.
[01:41:08]  And this is great.
[01:41:09]  But I think the reason would be I think there's.
[01:41:13]  Still, some remnants of guilt in finally closing the loop.
[01:41:21]  Okay, so the question is, why are you in limbo for years?
[01:41:26]  Because if you feel guilt, you could have picked up the phone, talked to him, and see how that conversation went.
[01:41:33]  The question is the limbo.
[01:41:35]  Do you know what I mean?
[01:41:36]  Yeah.
[01:41:37]  You're not free, you're not in, you're in limbo.
[01:41:42]  Yeah, why would I want to be in limbo?
[01:41:44]  Yeah, if you think that there's hope, then why not call him up?
[01:41:48]  And if you think there's no hope, why not block the emails fully?
[01:41:52]  Yeah.
[01:41:54]  I couldn't agree more.
[01:41:55]  So, what's the secondary gains of limbo for you?
[01:42:00]  What is the benefit?
[01:42:02]  How does it do for you?
[01:42:04]  Maybe I'd love to know your answer.
[01:42:09]  Maybe I can avoid the backlash from my family when they know it's final, final.
[01:42:16]  No, because you could do that just by deleting his emails or preventing them from coming from the server.
[01:42:22]  I mean, bro has been, your father has been sending you emails that he's going to die if you don't call him.
[01:42:28]  That's seriously abusive.
[01:42:30]  I mean, come on, if there was some woman who's like, oh, I have to go see my ex boyfriend because he said he's going to kill himself if I don't go over, would you think that was abusive of him?
[01:42:43]  Beyond.
[01:42:44]  Yes, absolutely.
[01:42:46]  And what am I standing to gain from being in limbo?
[01:42:49]  So if it's to do with not wanting to provoke the family, You could have never read his emails and it still wouldn't be provoking the family.
[01:42:59]  So it's not that.
[01:43:00]  What are you thinking?
[01:43:01]  I don't know.
[01:43:02]  What else you got?
[01:43:04]  How do I benefit from being in limbo?
[01:43:09]  How do you benefit from neither talking to your father nor breaking communication decisively?
[01:43:18]  Maybe it provides some sort of hedge for my own behavior.
[01:43:21]  What do you mean?
[01:43:23]  No, I'm just, I'm really just.
[01:43:24]  Brainstorming.
[01:43:25]  I don't know.
[01:43:25]  No, no, no.
[01:43:26]  I actually, I'm not saying, I still don't know what you mean.
[01:43:28]  Some hedge for your own behavior.
[01:43:31]  Like, I don't know.
[01:43:34]  I'm not saying this is the case, but maybe if I'm a bad person or I do something bad, people can really cut me off forever.
[01:43:43]  And truly internalizing that, although I don't think that's what it is, I'm just thinking with you.
[01:43:50]  Okay.
[01:43:51]  Well, are you doing bad things that you're concerned that people will cut you off for?
[01:43:55]  No.
[01:43:55]  Okay.
[01:43:57]  So it's not that.
[01:44:02]  It feels like a toxic loop, like you said.
[01:44:04]  I don't.
[01:44:07]  Maybe it's somehow making myself feel better.
[01:44:12]  Although I say I hate it, feel disgust and anger.
[01:44:17]  Some part of it, obviously, probably is shielding me from some emotion.
[01:44:23]  Yeah.
[01:44:25]  There's another possibility.
[01:44:26]  I put it forward only as a possibility, which is.
[01:44:30]  Reverse sadism and torment.
[01:44:32]  As in masochism or?
[01:44:34]  No, it means that you enjoy seeing your father suffering.
[01:44:41]  Right.
[01:44:42]  I actually was going to say that.
[01:44:43]  Yeah.
[01:44:44]  Yeah.
[01:44:44]  That I'm tormenting him back.
[01:44:46]  Well, you're not tormenting him directly, but you're enjoying seeing the fruits of your torment, which is him having heart palpitations and all this other bullshit.
[01:44:55]  Oh, well.
[01:44:56]  You like to see him beg.
[01:44:58]  You like to see him squirm.
[01:44:59]  You like to see him reaching for you.
[01:45:01]  You like to see him.
[01:45:03]  I'm going to die and I'm so upset and I can't sleep.
[01:45:06]  Like, you enjoy seeing the harm that your exit has done because of your anger.
[01:45:13]  Yeah.
[01:45:14]  And I'm not judging it, I'm just saying what it might be.
[01:45:17]  Yeah, there's something to that for sure.
[01:45:20]  Yeah, it's like, it's almost like payback.
[01:45:24]  Right.
[01:45:25]  And if he somehow finds that, like, I am opening the emails, I know that he'll continue.
[01:45:28]  And like, it keeps us in the cat and mouse game.
[01:45:31]  Right.
[01:45:32]  Right.
[01:45:33]  And you get, I mean, your father did quite a bit of damage to you, right?
[01:45:37]  And he failed to protect you.
[01:45:40]  Ah, right.
[01:45:41]  Okay.
[01:45:41]  He failed to protect you from your mother.
[01:45:44]  And so now you refuse to protect him from himself.
[01:45:48]  Exactly.
[01:45:49]  There you go.
[01:45:49]  Yeah, I think that's it.
[01:45:51]  Brilliant.
[01:45:53]  Well, it's very deep.
[01:45:56]  Wow.
[01:45:57]  Yes, strikes a deep chord.
[01:46:00]  And listen, I mean, I'm the last guy who tells Tim good to tell you that's bad.
[01:46:10]  I don't think about my enemies too often, but I will almost never miss an opportunity to throw a jab in.
[01:46:16]  I'll just.
[01:46:18]  Almost never.
[01:46:19]  And so, in general, life will punish those who do you wrong.
[01:46:26]  And the less they feel that punishment, the worse that punishment is.

=== Sins You Cannot Undo (06:26) ===

[01:46:30]  Yeah.
[01:46:32]  And so, your father's suffering is going to occur.
[01:46:36]  You don't need to see it.
[01:46:38]  It is an awful thing that he's going through, and he deserves every moment of it.
[01:46:45]  If somebody treated one of your children the way your parents treated you, even just for a weekend, What would you feel?
[01:46:53]  Blind and rage.
[01:46:54]  Right.
[01:46:55]  Why would your children be more deserving of protection than you as a child?
[01:47:01]  Why should someone be more outraged at your children being harmed for a weekend than you for 40 years?
[01:47:08]  No reason at all.
[01:47:09]  And it's frustrating that it's still somewhat hard to connect with those emotions.
[01:47:17]  I mean, yeah, somewhere back, but to connect with it as deeply as imagining your scenario.
[01:47:22]  Right.
[01:47:23]  It is hard.
[01:47:23]  It is hard to imagine.
[01:47:25]  If somebody beat my daughter's head against the metal door to the point where she half passed out when she was three, I would have killed that person.
[01:47:34]  And, or wanted to.
[01:47:37]  And so, why would I want to spend time with my mother?
[01:47:42]  And does my mother suffer?
[01:47:43]  Did my father suffer?
[01:47:44]  Yeah.
[01:47:45]  Yeah, they did.
[01:47:47]  And maybe there are people out there in the world who can help them.
[01:47:50]  It ain't me.
[01:47:51]  You know, if some guy rapes a woman, Maybe he can be helped by some mental health professional in some way I could never understand, but we wouldn't ask his victim to help him, right?
[01:48:01]  Right.
[01:48:02]  I accept that.
[01:48:03]  So, yeah, your parents are suffering.
[01:48:06]  That's why we don't do evil.
[01:48:07]  That's why we don't abuse children.
[01:48:09]  That's why we're not hedonists, because hedonists get a lot of pleasure in the moment and a lot of suffering down the road.
[01:48:15]  That's why hedonism is impractical if you live much beyond the age of 20.
[01:48:20]  Right.
[01:48:21]  And there's no reason to remain in this toxic loop to exact punishment on them, because the punishment is here and coming.
[01:48:28]  Right.
[01:48:30]  And here's the thing.
[01:48:31]  You know, the old saying that if you want to embark on a journey of vengeance, dig two graves first.
[01:48:37]  Because you're suffering because of your desire to see him suffer.
[01:48:43]  Because it upsets you.
[01:48:44]  It costs you sleep and peace of mind.
[01:48:46]  Yes.
[01:48:49]  To walk away and live a great life and not to let go of the need for a vengeance you will not act on.
[01:48:58]  Because there's nothing to act on, right?
[01:48:59]  You can't even block emails from the guy, right?
[01:49:01]  You're not going to go beat him up or anything.
[01:49:03]  Like that, right?
[01:49:04]  So, if for me, it's like if I'm not going to act on vengeance, then I try to put it out of my mind.
[01:49:11]  I don't engage.
[01:49:11]  I don't follow.
[01:49:12]  I don't write.
[01:49:13]  I don't read whatever, right?
[01:49:16]  Yeah.
[01:49:17]  I mean, the woman who banned me, I didn't say she banned me, but she oversaw YouTube when I got banned, which cost me like 15 years of my life's work.
[01:49:24]  I completely forgot about her and didn't really think about her at all until A, her son died of a drug overdose and then she died.
[01:49:31]  I remember that.
[01:49:33]  And so, with your father, he is suffering.
[01:49:39]  There's nothing you can do about it.
[01:49:42]  You cannot do it any more than you can suck someone's smoke damage out of their lungs if they've been a smoker for 40 years.
[01:49:49]  Yeah.
[01:49:50]  You cannot help your father.
[01:49:53]  Even if you were to walk in and forgive him, that would not end his suffering.
[01:49:56]  In fact, it would be one of the most cruel things you could do because it would drive his suffering all completely underground.
[01:50:02]  And he would be unable to even have the chance to confront it or feel it or deal with it.
[01:50:08]  And so he is desperate for your forgiveness because he thinks that will ease his suffering.
[01:50:13]  He's desperate for you to be back in contact with him because he believes it will ease his suffering.
[01:50:18]  He's grabbing at you like a drunk.
[01:50:21]  Grabs it a drink, right?
[01:50:23]  Exactly.
[01:50:24]  Yes.
[01:50:24]  And so, but the last thing you should do is give the drunk a drink.
[01:50:28]  He's going to have to just dry out, right?
[01:50:30]  He's going to have to go through the DTs.
[01:50:31]  He's just going to have to dry out.
[01:50:33]  And so you cannot help him.
[01:50:36]  Maybe the therapist will, I don't know, but you can't.
[01:50:40]  And you have to look away because seeing him convulsing in spiritual agony every time an email comes in and he's begging and pleading and threatening and I'm dying and this, like seeing him twist and turn and shudder on the ground.
[01:50:55]  From an addiction that you did not cause and cannot cure is a kind of masochism.
[01:51:03]  Yeah.
[01:51:03]  And cruelty.
[01:51:05]  And I, I, I, I haven't, these are not moral judgments.
[01:51:07]  I'm not saying you're a cruel person or anything like that.
[01:51:11]  I get it.
[01:51:12]  But it's just accepting that you cannot regrow his arm, you cannot make him whole, and you cannot undo the damage of 70 years or 50, let's say since he was an adult, of 50 years.
[01:51:29]  Early 20s to early 70s, 50 years of cruelty you cannot undo any more than you can make him 20 again and send him on a better path.
[01:51:39]  It is all accumulated.
[01:51:41]  It is irrevocable.
[01:51:42]  It cannot be undone.
[01:51:43]  It cannot be fixed.
[01:51:46]  There is no redemption.
[01:51:47]  Are you a religious man?
[01:51:49]  Yes, Christian.
[01:51:50]  Right.
[01:51:51]  So, of course, I'll say this with all due deference to the Christian aspects of your belief system, but there are many souls the devil will not give back.
[01:52:04]  And particularly, and this is self Jesus, right?
[01:52:07]  And what you do to the least among you, so do you also do to me.
[01:52:10]  So, if your father and mother tormented children for years and refused to admit fault, refused to repent, refused to take responsibility, and continue to bully and threaten, you cannot dislodge the demons from their hearts.
[01:52:25]  You cannot dislodge the demons that have displaced their hearts.
[01:52:29]  You cannot make their conscience whole without redemption.
[01:52:33]  And they will not redeem themselves.
[01:52:36]  And there's no reason to believe they ever will redeem themselves.
[01:52:39]  There are venal sins.
[01:52:39]  There are mortal sins.
[01:52:40]  There are sins which you can turn back from.
[01:52:42]  There are sins you cannot turn back from.
[01:52:45]  And the decisions that they made to embrace the devil in the way were made long before you came along.
[01:52:51]  And you cannot dislodge that devil, he owns them completely.
[01:52:56]  They have sold their souls.

=== Embracing the Devil in Your Family (01:06) ===

[01:52:57]  The bill is due.
[01:52:59]  And there's no escape.
[01:53:01]  You can't undo that signature that was done 50 years ago.
[01:53:04]  Nobody can.
[01:53:05]  That's why you don't do that signature.
[01:53:08]  It's like you're watching a movie and hoping that the ending is going to be different if you watch it again.
[01:53:12]  Yeah, that's how it feels.
[01:53:14]  So that would be my suggestion.
[01:53:16]  I really appreciate that.
[01:53:18]  Thank you so much for listening.
[01:53:21]  You're very welcome.
[01:53:22]  And I'm sorry again about this wretched family.
[01:53:25]  I'm really sorry.
[01:53:27]  And if there's anything else I can do, please let me know.
[01:53:32]  And also, I just wanted to express my sincere, honorable, and deep admiration for what you've made of your life, given where you started from, no matter what.
[01:53:40]  But I mean, you were definitely a bone that got cracked, that the arm became.
[01:53:45]  Truly mighty.
[01:53:45]  And I hugely respect you for what you've done with your life and your commitment to your family and your children is a beautiful thing to see and magnificent.
[01:53:56]  Right back at you.
[01:53:57]  And it means the world coming from you.
[01:54:00]  All right.
[01:54:00]  Thanks, brother.
[01:54:01]  Take care.
[01:54:02]  Thank you, Steph.
[01:54:02]  Take care.
[01:54:03]  Bye bye.