April 18, 2026 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
01:44:25
Surviving Chronic Illness! CALL IN SHOW
Stephan Molyneux hosts a call-in show featuring two callers with severe post-COVID POTS, detailing debilitating symptoms like brain fog and air hunger that caused ER visits, financial strain, and social isolation. Both describe failed attempts to find relief through relocation and medication, while navigating bureaucratic hurdles at Kaiser Permanente. The host challenges their self-obsession, arguing that true recovery requires a purpose larger than oneself, such as founding support groups or researching causality, transforming personal suffering into a mission to help others rather than succumbing to quiet desperation. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Medical Issues After Vaccines00:10:02
So, I said this to Steph earlier this week.
I said, longtime listener, I spoke to you a few years back on a paid call, and you were super helpful.
Since speaking with you, I've had some medical issues, which can be traced to either COVID andor the vaccine.
During the pandemic, I lost my job.
And when the vaccines were introduced, I was openly telling friends and family not to get it.
18 months later, I found a job in late 2021, but a requirement was to get vaccinated.
I got it, and I haven't been the same since.
I can recall driving home and getting it and felt drunk.
I woke up the next morning with bad testicular pain.
I contracted COVID the following month and I've had health issues from it ever since.
I started having health issues more seriously in early 2022 that I kept to myself, but it was serious enough to consider moving back home.
Ultimately, I made that decision and my episodes became worse.
I ended up in the ER three times, three different times, and the doctors insisted the symptoms were from anxiety or depression.
They tried to put me on SSRIs, but I declined.
After doing some personal research, I saw this mystery illness that a lot of younger people were getting who had had COVID.
Fast forward to today, I have tested positive for that mystery illness.
They call it post COVID POTS.
My cardiologist suspects I also have MCAS, so I'm on medication for that as well.
Sorry, what is MCAS?
Mass cellular activation syndrome.
It's a newer one.
I'm not as familiar with it, but of people with POTS, like 40% have MCAS as well, they suspect.
And you get like flare ups, and it's like I've been having recently.
Recently, I've been having allergic reactions, but they're neurological.
So, if I put like a facial cream on, or sometimes like if I touch like my saline solution for my contact lenses, I can have like this weird reaction where it looks like you would think like my whole face would be red or just peeling, and nothing's wrong, but it's like a neurological thing.
And that's probably a bad explanation, but I've just learned about this recently.
I haven't been tested for it, but my doctor thinks I have it.
So I'm on medication for that.
I'll finish off.
There's two more paragraphs.
Sorry.
For what it's worth, I've learned that a few athletes have pots.
Roman Josie, a professional hockey player.
And Chris Saps Porzingis, an NBA player.
I mention this because this is the only publicity I've seen about POTS, despite the fact so many others have it now.
I relocated to the mountains in December of last year with the hopes that this would help my illness.
Cold weather is supposed to be best for POTS.
Instead, my symptoms have been the worst I have had, which has forced me to take a medical leave of absence from work.
I had to threaten my company with legal counsel to get back pay, and my medical insurance doesn't want to pay for anything.
I'm finding irony in the corporation and healthcare companies who encourage people to get vaccinated.
But don't want to be involved when I'm exhibiting these symptoms and want to get treatment.
Today, I'm having issues with my mobility.
I'm having trouble walking and standing for long periods.
My normal walk, which is like a mile, is now more of a task where I avoid the pavement and stay in the grass in case I faint to avoid another concussion, which was one of my previous ER visits.
I went to church on Sunday and I had to prop myself on the pews because I couldn't stand.
I'm even convinced that this could be a spiritual battle.
I feel disconnected from family and friends.
There are only one or two people that really know the struggles I've been going through.
I would love to talk to you about this if you have time.
So that's what I wrote, Steph, on Monday.
Okay.
And is there more?
I'm sure there's more you want to add.
I'm all ears.
Steph, I don't, I mean, I just don't even know where to start.
I don't know.
This has just been, it's, it's, it's, and I know you've had, I know you've had medical issues before.
I know it's not the same.
I don't know where to start, Steph.
Sorry, sometimes when people say they don't know where to start, they do start, but I'm happy to ask questions if that helps.
Yeah, I think that would be best.
I apologize.
Yeah, I'm thinking of a million different things.
Okay, no problem.
What happened to your testicles?
I just remember waking up the following morning and I had this dull pain in my right testicle.
I've mentioned it to the doctors, I've mentioned it in my ER visits.
I occasionally get that from time to time.
They didn't see anything.
But I used Reddit as a resource, and there are tons of people who have said the same thing, and all of them were vaccinated or gotten COVID.
We don't know what it is, but they've checked it, they don't see anything wrong with it.
But I get that dull pain probably once a month now, and it just feels totally random.
And no cause for that, right?
Right, right.
At least they haven't been able to figure anything out.
But I didn't start having testicle pain until 14 hours after getting vaccinated.
And like I said, that was prior to you said you got COVID like a month later or something like that?
I got COVID the following month, yes.
So I got vaccinated in November of 2021, got COVID December of the following month in December.
Wow.
Gosh, I am, of course, incredibly sorry to hear that.
That is really rough.
And how long has it been now?
It has been, so what are we, 2026, it's been over four years now.
I will say, I will say, when I started experiencing, I would call them like more serious flare ups.
I had no idea what they were.
They would happen like once a month.
So I was living out of state at the time and they were serious, like enough to where like I'm in my car and I'm like, okay, do I go to the hospital or not?
You know, they would subside after an hour.
I now know that that's a POTS flare up.
And I'm now getting those.
Every day.
And they come in waves.
Like, I mean, my more serious ones, I'll feel like I remember my first one.
I had vertigo for over 24 hours.
I was just sitting there at a restaurant with my dad and my stepmom.
And I felt like I was just on a boat randomly and then I couldn't get up.
And I lie down.
I still had it the next day.
And then there were some, with the pots flare up, I mean, you have stuff that's called like air hunger, where you have this need that you got to get outside for whatever just to breathe.
I'll lie down.
That's really.
That's really the best remedy, Steph.
It's just lying down on your back.
It has to do with blood pooling in your legs.
So I won't have blood circulating to my head and I'll get lightheaded.
Brain fog is another one.
I mean, I'm an accountant.
So I'm dealing with complex things.
And if I'm sitting upright, I can't sit upright for long periods.
So I work remotely.
But a lot of the time, and my employer doesn't even know this, I'm having to.
Do it from my bed, like my laptop and my bed, where really I need three monitors for the kind of work that I'm doing.
So it's messing with that.
I can't do normal things.
I don't go farther than the grocery store.
When I have good days, good days are just normal days and they're rare.
And that means I can get to the gym and maybe do a half hour workout.
And I'm in my mid 30s.
I would say I'm in pretty good shape considering all these things.
So if you looked at me, I don't think you would say, oh, this guy's unhealthy.
But like the stuff that I've been dealing with recently, like the walking, I mean, there are people that have mobility issues like me that are using canes like in their 20s.
And.
Like you asked about MCAS earlier.
The only reason I haven't gotten tested for MCAS is because Kaiser Permanente, my previous healthcare provider, didn't want to sign off on it.
Steph, just to get tested for POTS, which they denied like three different times, I had to go directly to the CEO, found out his email, and then suddenly I get an approval.
What was funny was Scott Adams, I mean, not funny.
Scott Adams, I don't know if you remember this, like maybe six weeks.
Six weeks before he had passed, he had to get, like, I think he tweeted out to Donald Trump Jr., like, he needed some approval for something.
And then he had Kaiser Permanente attached to it.
And I knew what I had gone through just to get stuff approved.
And even Scott Adams was having difficulty with that.
So I'm like, and all these healthcare companies encourage people to get this stuff.
And you mean the.
Yes.
And then I feel.
I feel terrible about it because I listen to you regularly.
And, you know, I regret getting it.
I regret, you know, just a ton of things.
So I think about that a lot, especially when I'm, you know, just in essentially just in isolation, you know, in my home in the mountains, surrounded by nobody really.
So it's just, I feel like it's just been a struggle.
And I'm not, I made mistakes.
I made mistakes getting it.
I got the vaccine to get a job, but I was against all that stuff.
But I feel like I'm paying for it.
I've paid for it now for nearly half a decade.
Well, that needs to say it's like worse now than it's been in a while, right?
Yes.
Regret and Isolation Struggles00:03:17
Yes.
Essentially, every day, if I didn't know what this flare up was, I would end up in the ER.
It's that severe.
The only difference now, though, I know what it is.
So tell me what the flare up is, what you experience.
It usually is the It usually is dizziness.
That's the first thing.
And I'll start seeing stars.
It'll mess with my vision.
And I'll know I need to sit down or even lie down.
It can mimic, they're flare ups.
They're similar ones.
They're not all the same, but I can have stuff that mimics a heart attack or a stroke, like my limbs going numb.
So I'll lie down and I have these compression boots that are like massage boots.
And I'll lie down and, I'll have chest pressure and I'll have severe brain fog and like disassociation.
Like, I'll know where I am, but I don't, if that makes any sense.
There's a new thing that I've learned.
I forget what it's called, but it's this feeling when you're lying down.
Like, I can be on a couch or a bed and it feels like I'm falling infinitely.
Is it like an inner ear thing?
Yeah, they're.
So I guess you're, you're, I've got like, what is it?
Like the, I think it's like your vagal.
Yeah, your vagus nerve.
Yeah.
So there are issues with that as well.
And Steph, as much as I know about this, I'm blanking out on the significance of that.
And I think this is just another component of it brain fog.
Like I'm not, I'm trying to explain this stuff in detail to you and answer you, but I feel like I'm doing a poor job with that.
That's a symptom.
And I'm sitting down right now, and I think that could just be the blood pooling.
So it's like a, forgive me, but yeah, the vagus nerve.
That was another thing.
Another thing I was like, just even like in the bathroom urinating.
Like, I'll have to sit down a lot just to pee.
Like, it's embarrassing because I can't stand up and urinate because whatever your vagus, like, yeah, your vagal nerve is doing, like, it messes with that.
So, like, urinating, I have trouble with.
I feel like there are just so many things.
And I apologize.
Did I answer your question?
Yeah.
I mean, you got, Symptoms of a stroke or a heart attack.
And this is why you said if you didn't know what was going on, you'd be in the ER, right?
Exactly.
Yes.
Right.
Okay.
Again, also massive, massive sympathies.
And in the month between the vaccine and when you got COVID, what was that like other than the testicular pain?
I'm trying to think of that.
I don't remember anything significant other than immediately after.
I'm talking like the grocery store 10 minutes away.
I felt like if I had gotten pulled over, I couldn't pass a field sobriety test.
I had the Johnson Johnson.
So it was like the two shots into one.
And then the testicular pain the next morning.
Grounding Routine During Flares00:04:52
Other than that, I cannot recall having a flare up.
I can't recall.
Feeling bad until I got COVID.
Even when I had COVID, it wasn't bad.
So there wasn't anything significant.
The flare ups really came maybe two or three months following that.
Sorry, following that, I mean, two or three months after COVID, you started to get your flare ups?
Yes, maybe February or March of 2022.
Okay.
And when did you and I have the call?
We had a call in summer of 2024.
Okay.
And just if you could refresh me on that.
Yeah.
So we had had conversations, but we had had a conversation, but it wasn't even related to my health stuff.
At that point, I had moved back home, but I was still, I think at that point, I maybe had told my parents about my health issues, but it was like once a month's layer up.
It wasn't as frequent.
So it was like I was stuck.
I didn't know what I was doing with my life.
And you gave me a ton of good advice.
So essentially, yeah, you got me, or I could like move out into the mountains to, I don't know, just have a better life.
Like, it wasn't even like a health related call, but I can recall I was having flare ups, but they weren't frequent.
It was once a month.
So it was, it was non related.
Sorry.
And now, how often are they?
Daily.
Daily.
Okay.
And have they stabilized it daily?
Is it more than once a day sometimes?
It can be.
Yes.
And my day is never the same.
Like, I'm sorry, my day is never the same after I have one.
It's like I need just like total recovery.
It's like I've just been hit.
It feels like I'm hungover.
Like I just can't have a normal day after it.
And a lot of the time, usually this occurs in the morning.
So I'll get up at six.
I have this religious practice where I'm reading the Bible, I'm doing yoga, I'm doing an acupressure mat.
It's like a three hour routine just to sort of ground myself.
And I've noticed that I'll have a slightly better day if I do these things.
If I don't, it's like a guaranteed flare up.
So, yeah, they occur pretty much daily and can be multiple times a day.
And the three hour routine, is that something you sort of puzzled out yourself?
Is that something you got from a support group or something else?
Yes.
Yeah, I would say mostly.
Yeah, mostly.
I'm sure I saw suggestions from Reddit.
I'll go through the post Reddit.
The acupressure stuff, like acupuncture stuff, it's like an acupressure mat sort of mimics that.
And that's been helpful.
So, I'll do that for like 30 minutes.
And then the other grounding stuff, the yoga, like that, that I had done previously.
So it was another reason just to get back into it.
That's been helpful.
I think some things were suggested on the forums.
But yeah, the spiritual stuff, like reading the Bible, stuff like when I have these flare ups, like severe ones, I'll text my mom and dad and thank them for everything.
I'll text friends and say that because they feel so intense.
And I'll read off my symptoms and I'll say stuff like, You know, can you guys just ensure that my cats will be okay?
You know, by my two cats, and I feel like you feel like you're gonna die.
It's not terminal, but the flare ups, the flare ups feel like they are.
Um, so it was like another reason where I'm like, okay, if I'm gonna meet my maker, you know, I need to get back into you know Christianity, and um, so that's that's part of the routine, um, in the mornings, um, why I do that as well.
Um, I hope I'm making some sense here.
I feel like I'm just throwing some things at you.
Sorry, go ahead.
No, and I interrupt.
I just feel like I'm throwing so many things at you and just going at 100 miles an hour.
I don't mean to.
They're just, I don't know.
They're just so many things about this.
No, 100 miles an hour in brain fog is good.
That's good.
Otherwise, it's just endless pauses and who am I talking to again?
Let me check my notes.
Right.
And how are your parents doing with all this?
I think they're, they're, they're, they know I'm struggling.
They try to support me as much as they can.
And that's typically through like a daily conversation or every other day.
But ultimately, how it ends is just like, you know, sorry, like, I hope it gets better.
It's such a mystery stuff.
Like, even the medication, there's just not, there's not just one medication.
It's more or less like spaghetti on the wall.
And it's like, okay, we're going to try you with this.
Come back in three months and tell us if you feel better.
But yeah, they can't find anything.
I mean, sorry, obviously, I'm no doctor, so this is all just amateur nonsense.
Mystery of Escalating Symptoms00:09:23
But whenever I hear the word syndrome, I think cluster of symptoms with no clear etiology, like no clear, oh, you've got this or something like that.
Right.
Yes.
So I do, yeah.
And forgive me if I'm answering this.
So I was tested positive for this.
But this is what?
This is POTS, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome.
Okay, so, but is that a symptom or a cause?
These are, it is a syndrome.
They're just, yeah, like you said, a cluster of symptoms.
It doesn't have a cure necessarily because it's not a disease.
But I'm no medical person.
So, I mean, if you, you know, I got a bee sting in the summer and my hand swelled up, so I had to get some antibiotics.
The symptom was the hand swelling, the Cause was an infection and the antibiotics were the cure.
You know, when I had my throat lump, I, you know, the, well, who knows exactly what the cause was, but I had to get that removed, that resolved the issues and so on.
And so a syndrome, like I think of sort of sudden infant death syndrome.
Well, SIDS is just basically the way of saying we don't know what killed the baby.
We don't know what caused the baby to die, but we need to have a name for it.
We need to put something down.
So, and again, you know, if, if, You know, since I'm not a doctor, you know, dumb it down as much as you want.
But a syndrome to me is like okay, you have these negative effects, but we're not sure what the cause is, we can't identify a particular cause.
So, POTS was the thing before COVID.
It typically would come like after somebody had gotten, I'm trying to think, like a viral infection.
And there were symptoms that came after it.
Why they call it post COVID POTS is because there's been such an uptick now in it.
Like, I'll go to a cardiologist's room and I'll see a half dozen people younger than me.
Like, they look like they're in their 20s.
They're finding out that.
You know, it's coming either from COVID or the vaccine.
And my cardiologist said off the record, he's like, you know, I studied viruses.
And he's like, what I think is going on here is that, you know, the spike protein in the vaccine is doing, I forget what he said, because I'm an idiot when it comes to medicine.
But the spike protein and something to do with like the brain membrane.
And that's what's like, I'm sorry, Steph.
I feel like I'm just going into circles.
What they're saying is post COVID POTS, like everybody got this viral infection from COVID.
Therefore, that's where the syndrome lies.
It's after this viral infection, which was COVID.
Well, but is there a description?
I mean, I remember this is sort of off the top of my head, but I do remember the issue with the spike protein that's manufactured by the vaccine programming the cells, that the spike goes everywhere and can scratch things and can be attacked as a foreign object.
And because it just keeps producing and keeps producing, it goes everywhere.
In the system as a whole, right?
It was supposed to originally just stay around the shoulder area, but I think it showed up in some studies in the ovaries and like it just kind of crosses the blood brain barrier to my, again, admittedly amateur recall.
And so the problem with system wide, like it just goes everywhere.
And, you know, if it's going to have any negative impacts, then those are going to be system wide and very tough to predict.
Right.
Okay.
Got it.
Yeah.
I agree.
I know.
I'm sorry.
And if you've got an amateur opinion, I don't even know what I have.
I'm sorry, did you?
Well, so you have a cluster of symptoms.
And as far as I understand it, if they say post COVID, I'm not sure that explains much, if that makes sense.
So it's saying after, like after COVID or after the vaccine, X happened, which produced, you know, ABC symptoms.
But do they have a mechanism by which these symptoms are produced?
I don't know.
That's a good question.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know how to answer that.
What they're using, yeah, maybe that's just like because it's, you'll also hear like dysautonomia.
That's like the umbrella term that they're categorizing with POTS and MCAS and EDS and a number of different things.
I think, again, post COVID is because they recognize that the viral infection specifically came from COVID as opposed to POTS, which was much, it happened much less, but it, It could be from any viral infection.
Now they're saying it's because of the timeline, it was likely from COVID.
I hope I'm answering your question or making any sense.
And of course, there was a time where there was COVID with no vaccine, right?
COVID started kicking around in early 2020.
I think they held off on releasing the vaccine until after the elections, which also was kind of evil, of course.
But so it was like really late 2020, the vaccine.
So was there a bunch of pot stuff coming out prior to the vaccine?
That's a great question.
That's fine.
If you don't know, I'm just kind of curious because that would make it more related to COVID than.
I certainly know just navigating through the POTS subreddit, there were people that had had it before me, the uptick.
Yeah, I think to answer your question, yes.
Yes, there were people with POTS before the vaccines were introduced.
Well, no, I understand that because, as you said, it's been around long before even COVID.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, but was there an uptick in the POTS?
Related to COVID, or was it more after the vaccine was rolled out?
I can't answer.
Yeah, maybe nobody knows.
Maybe nobody knows.
Maybe this isn't centrally collected.
And of course, a lot of doctors would have a tough time collecting that data and reporting on it because there'd be certainly in the height of the sort of COVID mental state, whatever we want to call it.
I mean, anybody who cast doubts upon the efficacy and safety of the vaccine was just like roundly attacked.
And, you know, the McCullough treatment, the Malone treatment, I mean, just people were, the Weinstein treatment.
I mean, yeah, people were just like savage because, you know, there was $100 billion plus of profitability sitting there on people accepting this thing.
So, okay, all right.
So, yeah, the politics of all of that is not in particular related to your call, so I don't want to drag it off on my thoughts.
So, no, Steph, I mean, I appreciate your insight so much.
I mean, I.
Yeah.
No, thank you.
Yeah.
Cause I, I mean, as you know, I didn't get this therapeutic or whatever you want to call it.
It's not really a vaccine, but I didn't get it.
And I did get COVID.
And, or at least what the COVID test says was COVID.
It was for me, you know, maybe a cold and a half, somewhere between a cold and a flu.
It lasted a couple of days and so on.
And so, and I just got it the once, which is kind of what you'd expect if you get the broad spectrum immunity from natural immunity.
It deals with more than just that, right?
Because, you know, for me, one of the scary things about the COVID thing, the vaccine, sorry, I hate calling it a vaccine, but that's what everyone calls it.
So whatever, right?
But is that the COVID vaccine was developed for a particular strain of COVID, which had already mutated significantly by the time the vaccines were rolled out.
So sort of my concern was, okay, so the COVID has a spike protein in it.
And if I take a vaccine that also produces a different spike protein, I get two spike proteins in my system.
And again, this is just idiot, amateur, non doctor understanding.
So it doesn't mean anything.
None of this is medical advice for anyone who listens to anything more about this later.
I just want to be clear about that, right?
But for me, it was like, okay, so I get the spike protein from COVID.
And if I then get a vaccine, I get a spike protein that's a little bit different.
What's it going to be like to have two spike proteins rolling around?
My system, and I just for me, it was not.
I mean, certainly that had never really been tested.
Like, they couldn't test the vaccine with later versions of COVID because, of course, you had to wait for later versions of COVID, like the alpha, the Omicron, and all that kind of stuff.
And so that was sort of one of my concerns.
And so, if that is a concern, you know, maybe that would be some rudimentary way of understanding why it escalated after you got COVID, because maybe you had two different kinds of spike proteins roaming around.
I don't know.
Who knows, right?
But anyway, so that's neither here nor there.
And again, none of that is anything to do with any kind of medical advice or any medical knowledge, but that would be a way that I would sort of look at it for myself.
Resentment Over Past Decisions00:06:04
But again, you know, the decisions are in the past, and now we just have to deal with.
With what's going on in the present.
And so, how is your mental health doing with this, you know, this absolute bear of an illness, you know?
My gosh, you know, I mean, this is just an absolute bear because it's, you know, it's semi debilitating, it sounds like from time to time.
It's kind of random.
They're just putting you on a bunch of cocktails and crossing their fingers.
And, you know, the, I think of these tuberculosis cures of let's go to the mountains where it's drier.
And you tried going to where it's colder and the mountains, and that hasn't.
Helped.
In fact, things have gotten worse.
So, I mean, how are you doing overall with this?
I'm not doing great.
I'm not doing great.
Yeah, my mental health, I'm in isolation already.
And at the very least, like with work, like I had something that I was like, okay, here's your objective today.
And work was aware of this already.
I had been working for six months and they were aware of it.
So, there were times where I was like, hey, I got to get off for an hour.
I need to go lie down.
So, they were cool with it.
But it had just gotten like, It was my worst symptoms were really started in January.
So that's when I, you know, I'd taken time off.
To answer your question, my mental health has not been good.
I can't really do anything.
I can't make friends.
I can't date.
I really have like, I've got my elderly neighbor who I speak to every day when I try to do my walk.
That's it.
I'll talk to friends and family over the phone.
But no, I haven't been great.
And I'm stuck.
I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm getting these like, I'm getting these small checks now because I'm technically on long term disability now.
I'm still technically employed with my company, but because it's been over eight weeks, I'm getting like 50% of my pay as opposed to the full pay.
So I'm getting $900 paychecks.
My rent's $1,600.
Sorry, $900 paychecks every two weeks.
And I'm getting, and I've got to make $1,600 just to afford rent.
So financially, I'm not doing well.
And I'm stuck.
I just like, I don't, I don't even like, I don't even recognize myself at times.
I'm just like, how did I get here?
So I think within this isolation and stuff, I have a lot of regret.
I have resentment.
It hasn't been great stuff.
Well, tell me about the regret and resentment.
I regret getting the vaccine.
I regret, you know, on our call from like a few years ago, I just remember you said something you were like, and you've listened to my show for how long?
I mean, I've been listening.
One of my friends introduced me to your show in 2011.
So I'm like thinking, here I am.
I've listened to stuff for 15 years.
And I can't remember, like, forgive me, I don't want to put words in your mouth if you explicitly said don't get it.
Either way, I knew the decision wasn't to get it.
And I still got it.
I don't know if it was because I had seen it.
No, just in case this gives you any comfort, I would never ever say to people, do or don't do any medical procedure because I'm not a doctor, right?
So I can't do that.
So I told people.
I told people I wasn't going to get it and talked about the.
I did a whole show called The Case Against China about the sort of manufactured element of the thing and so on.
But yeah, no, if it's any consolation to you, I never told people don't get it.
I couldn't.
Like, I mean, I can't.
Give that kind of advice.
I can simply tell people that I wouldn't in a million years get it.
And then, you know, everybody has to make their own decisions.
But yeah, if it's any consolation, I just say that.
And I've heard so many shows where people do, like, they will say, like, oh, you said this, or they'll put words.
I'm not trying to do that.
Like, I just know.
I just know listening to your show.
I'm trying to help you because, you know, if I had held up a swinging pocket watch and said, don't do it, don't get it, right?
Then that would be a different matter.
I'm trying to give you some sort of comfort here.
Like, I mean, yeah, you've listened to me.
For a long time.
But yeah, I never told people don't get it because that would be medical advice, right?
Yeah.
And I can remember, like, even in it was six months before I had taken the vaccine, I had learned that one of my close friends had gotten it.
And I was like, I was laughing about it.
I was like, I can't believe this guy.
And then, you know, my friends were, I'm sorry, my family has essentially gotten it.
I know a few of them had gotten it just to travel.
And I think it was like after finding that job, And them saying, hey, the requirement is to get it.
I wasn't doing well financially.
I'd been out of work for 18 months since COVID had started.
And I didn't see them exhibiting anything negative, like negative symptoms from it.
So I was sort of like, okay, maybe it's okay.
And then I got it, immediately was punished.
And I just haven't been the same since.
So that's the regret.
You asked about the regret.
I don't know.
I mean, Steph, maybe the resentment I've targeted towards family members without saying anything.
I wish, because I was the one telling everybody not to get it.
I wish, I mean, resentment from family, like maybe like, hey, like here was your stance for 18 months.
Like, why are you caving now?
Nobody told me that.
I don't know if I just expected them to.
Maybe that's where the resentment lies.
But yeah, to answer your question, the regret and resentment.
Those are where it stems from.
Does that make sense?
It totally does.
And listen, nobody can tell you for sure what caused it.
Right.
Right.
I mean, if you accidentally drill through your hand, someone can tell you why you have a hole in your hand, right?
Insurance Irony and Family Friction00:04:13
Right.
You know, if you smoke like a chimney and regularly mainline asbestos, Preba can probably tell you one of the causalities behind getting lung cancer, right?
Right.
But there's no God, man, or devil alive can tell you exactly why you got this.
And of course, I understand the sort of kicking yourself element of things.
Oh, without a doubt.
Yeah, without a doubt.
I can completely understand the kicking yourself element.
However, of course, it doesn't take a philosopher to tell you the basic facts that the decisions were made.
You'll never know for sure, and you have to live with what is.
Yes.
And there is no alternate timeline, of course, where you can compare a different you, right?
Yes.
So, and even if you could, even if you could, and there was some causality, whether it was, you know, Fauci funding.
COVID in the Wuhan lab, or like if, if, even if some causality comes out, uh, it, it still doesn't change what is.
And you still have to find a way to live with what is, if that makes sense.
Right.
Yes.
So, okay.
I, I, I think I would like, unless you have another question, just randomly.
No, no, it's your call, man.
Whatever works for you.
Yeah.
And I mentioned that, you know, the financial stuff too.
Um, cause like, yeah, if you were to look at like my net worth and whatever right now, um, it would be like, it'd be, it'd be negative.
It'd be like, I might as well.
I mean, I'm not homeless.
Like, I have a shelter, of course.
I've got a, you know, just a studio apartment.
But yeah, if you looked at it, it'd be negative with the medical debt now that I've incurred.
I mean, it's like I had my cardiologist a few months ago, and then they called me back immediately and they're like, hey, like you still owe, I don't know, it was like $400 or $500 from an exam, which was the initial exam from the prior year.
And I was thinking, why?
Like Kaiser Permanente, like, you know, you're in network.
What did they pay?
And they paid like, it was like $9 on, I don't know if it was like a $500 charge.
And then they said, Oh, wait, it was already paid for.
And I was like, Oh, great.
Like, that makes sense.
And they're like, Wait, no, it was written off.
So, like, these medical, like, I, yes, I have medical insurance, but it doesn't feel like I really do.
I get texts from them now daily saying, I, you know, I still owe them, you know, for whatever.
And it, and it isn't true.
It isn't like it isn't right.
Um, My ER visits, they may have paid 5 or 10% towards those.
I mean, those were six, eight grand visits.
I had three of them.
And I told you I had to make it.
I mean, sorry, you and I both know that the medical insurance is largely a scam to pay for illegals, in my view, right?
I mean, it's not, or to pay for irresponsible people, or to pay for people who can't be insured because they've let their health go to pot, or whatever it is, right?
So, in the idea that health insurance, especially mandated by semi socialist Obama, right?
The idea that health insurance would be there to help Americans with their health care bills.
I mean, I did, you know, I certainly railed against all of that kind of stuff when it was coming in, but, you know, I'm just a podcaster, as you know.
So, yeah, I mean, certainly we can talk about it, but you don't have a struggle to sell me on the fact that government mandated health insurance is not very helpful.
And then this MCAS thing, like I went in for an exam late last year and they were like, oh, like we think you have MCAS too.
You need to go see another specialist.
And when I, they needed approval from my, from Kaiser Permanente.
And I felt like what they were doing deliberately in the last month or so, I couldn't get that approval until after 1231.
And it was like, it wasn't, It was deliberate.
So, like, I'm telling you here, I'm on medication for it.
I had to tell my cardiologist they wouldn't do it.
Deliberate Approval Delays00:14:34
So he's like shrugging his shoulders and is like, okay, we're still going to give it to you, even though we don't even know that you have it.
We think that you do.
So it's like, yeah, it's just, I don't know.
That was what I mentioned about the irony.
It's just like, I don't really have medical insurance.
I'm, again, not going to sell you.
Yeah, like you just mentioned, like, yeah, it does feel like a scam.
Well, I won't say anything more about it.
Right.
Okay.
All right.
Tell me what was life like?
What was life like?
And are you in your 30s?
Yes.
And what was life like before all of this?
I would say pretty good.
I had, I had, you know, I worked, I still had a remote position, but I was still able to get out regularly.
I was probably at the gym five days a week.
At least the sauna, the steam room were my routines.
I had a dating life.
I had friends I would go out with.
I was closer with my family.
I would say I had a pretty normal life compared to now, especially compared to now.
Now I don't feel like I have very much of any of that.
Well, you do have a renewed commitment to spirituality.
That is true.
And have you tried dating at all?
No, I have not.
Not since moving to the mountains.
And is it just generally incomprehensible?
I just can't.
It's a task now to walk a mile.
I feel like I'm going to pass out.
I look like I'm drunk when I'm walking.
I get this pain in my spine and in the back of my skull.
I have to sort of lean forward.
I mean, I'm sure it looks idiotic.
That elderly neighbor I had mentioned earlier, I was taking my garbage out and she's aware of what I have.
And she, in her mid 70s, was.
Was having to help me take the trash out.
So dating, it just seems impossible.
Right.
And were you working in the office or at home?
I've been working remotely for three years now.
So I remember just before that, I was exhibiting some flare ups, but it was once a month and that was in the office.
So it's more than three years ago, but less than five.
I was in the office for a period of like a year and a half.
And then I had the remote position right after, which is who I'm currently employed with.
Well, semi employed, right?
Yes.
Yes.
All right.
So unburden yourself, my friend.
Tell me what's going on and how I can best help.
I mean, I know what's going on, but more details or anything and how I can best help.
I don't really know stuff.
I don't know.
I remember just, I was like, I got to speak to Steph.
I got to get some guidance from him.
I feel like I've already exhausted all of other channels, speaking to friends, speaking to family.
You know, you'd ask about my parents.
Like, I think they just feel helpless.
They're like, we don't know what we can do.
My friends as well.
We don't know what we can do.
The doctors, we don't know what we can do.
We can try these things, but we don't know what we can do.
I didn't know if you, you know, with, I know your medical history, it wasn't the same.
I know it was very serious.
And I know there were no guarantees either.
Yeah.
I don't mean to ask you something personal.
In saying that, I feel like here I am.
How did you, during that sort of time, just with uncertainty, how were you able to deal with that?
I know you've got a loving wife and a daughter.
What was that like?
Did you ever consider?
I know where you stand on religion.
Is that something where you're like, I could meet my maker any moment?
No.
No, I mean, it was pretty horrible.
It took us a long time to have a baby.
And then shortly after the baby was born, I got really sick.
Potentially fatally sick.
So, my approach was like, I'm just not going to die.
It was incomprehensible to me.
Like, I don't know what's going to take me out, but it's not going to be this.
And listen, I'm aware that that's somewhat magical thinking because nobody wants to die, but I was just like, well, whatever happens, this isn't going to beat me.
And I just didn't.
It never even really crossed my mind that it would take me out.
And I said, it's not going to kill me and it's not coming back.
And of course, so far, well, obviously it didn't kill me unless it did.
And this is all a dream.
And it's been 14 years, I guess, and no hint of it coming back.
So again, whether that is causal or it's just like, nope, I'm shrugging this off.
This is a hiccup.
It's going to teach me something about life.
But.
Obviously, it wasn't fun, but I was never really thinking, well, I better make my peace with life or my maker or anything like that.
It was just like, nope, this isn't it.
Whatever it's going to be, it's not this.
That was sort of my perspective.
I've spoken to one other person who had POTS and he had a family and he mentioned having one of his severe flare ups and he's like, okay, my daughter is going to be fatherless.
He had this.
Like negative thinking with that.
Yours sounds like the exact opposite.
And I really appreciate hearing that.
And I think that's it.
Like, this is just character building.
It's not supposed to be anything terminal.
There's supposed to be remission at the end of this.
I don't know when.
Well, it can be terminal if people get suicidal, right?
I mean, anything can be, right?
Sure.
You're right.
Yeah, maybe that's how I need to steer this then.
I mean, there's lots of ways in illness or any adversity.
Can take you out, right?
Yes.
I mean, I think of, oh, that fellow, I can't remember his name right now, but he was charged with downloading all of these documents and he was going to go to trial and he killed himself.
And of course, you know, there's no death penalty for downloading documents, except there kind of was.
And so, yeah, I mean, just about anything can take you out if it gets too much inside your head.
Sure.
Well, and you had mentioned like the mental health stuff.
Yeah.
Like I said, I haven't been great.
I certainly haven't been suicidal.
But I mean, you see like the sort of not death notes, but whatever I tell, you know, whatever I send to my family, my friends during like the severe ones, like I do feel at times I will die.
Like it is terminal.
But I think that's it.
I think I need to steer this.
Maybe with more confidence, maybe blind confidence.
I don't know.
I don't know.
But steer what?
That's the big question steer what?
I mean, it's a chronic, and it has been worsening, right?
Yes.
And you've obviously tried every specialist, every, you're an intelligent, creative guy, every mode of treatment, every approach you've tried.
And in terms of steering, I mean, is there anything left that you could try that you haven't?
This one guy I had spoken to, the one that had POTS, he said he had tried Prozac, which I believe is an SSRI.
And then I referenced something that I'd heard about on the show.
And I was like, I wasn't going to do it.
He said that helped him.
I haven't seen that from anybody else.
But he said there was time that it would take.
And he said that's what helped him.
So potentially another medication.
But other than that, I don't see anything else.
Right.
So is it a question now of acceptance?
Um, acceptance that, uh, that this is your life.
Yeah.
Uh, I guess so.
Uh, yes.
Yes.
It is.
Um, and because, you know, I mean, especially if you've had decades as a healthy functioning guy, then being debilitated in this kind of way, it's just kind of incomprehensible.
And, you know, most of the health issues that we face when they're younger, when we're younger, I call them software issues.
Uh, a software issue is.
You get sick, you get better.
A hardware issue is something happens and you don't get better.
I had my first hardware issue about 10 years ago with an ear issue.
And yeah, I mean, you are now for close to half a decade or so, you are debilitated.
And there's no, as far as I understand it, that's why, of course, I was asking about these sort of underlying causes, is that.
There's no path to where you were, if I understand this correctly.
Right.
So there was a, so one of the cardiologists I had spoken to, his daughter has paused, and they said they got her into a routine, but it took 18 months of different medication that they would try.
And now they've reduced her flare ups to twice a week.
So it's not like even the experts have this thing figured out.
It's okay, we've got it down and reduced it to two a week.
Yeah.
Cause I mean, that guy would have no greater incentive, right?
Right.
Okay.
So if this is your body now, then what?
I don't know.
That's why I called you, I guess, because nobody else, again, family, friends, I love them.
They're good support.
Like I do have good support.
But yeah, at the end of the day, they're far away.
Even if they were home, like with me, it's still helpless, you know, but they want to see you do better.
Wouldn't it be better?
It would be.
Yes, you're right.
It would be.
Are your parents still working?
My mom is.
My dad isn't.
He is occasionally, but not like nine to five.
Why wouldn't they move to where you are?
I don't know.
I don't know, Steph.
I guess they're.
I think my dad's going to.
My dad's going to.
You know, I think he'll stay there the rest of his life where he is.
Do they have.
How many kids do they have?
Two.
So it's me and my brother, my younger brother, but they're divorced.
You mean your younger brother and his wife?
I'm sorry.
My parents are divorced.
Okay.
Oh, so your dad could come?
He's remarried, but I guess, yeah, he could.
My mom isn't, but my mom still works where she lives.
I know you don't like locations, like saying locations, right?
Yeah, that's fine.
Yeah.
Okay.
And are there any friends?
I guess because you just moved recently to be in the mountains, are there any friends nearby?
No.
Yeah, it's kind of tough to make friends after you're sick, right?
Yes, very much so.
Any support groups?
I'm sure you've looked into all of this.
I'm just curious.
Yeah, the church.
I started going to church.
I've been.
No, I mean, support groups for this particular cluster of symptoms.
Oh, nothing local.
What I use is the subreddit for POTS.
I've written a couple times on there when I have some really bad flare ups.
But yeah, that's the closest thing to one.
Okay.
All right.
So if this is your life, what are you going to do?
I don't know.
I don't know if I'm going to be employed in a month.
I've got to talk to my boss sometime next week.
I think my job is protected through 12 weeks, and we're approaching that.
I obviously can't work in an office.
Remote work has been somewhat of a luxury, so I don't want to lose my position.
They mentioned stress being.
You know, exacerbating four pots.
So I'm prone to having more flare ups.
I can't imagine how I'd have more than I do now.
So there's like a seesaw effect.
It's like, I enjoy working.
I want to go back.
I don't want to end up in the ER though.
I don't know, Steph.
I don't know.
There are just a lot of unknowns.
I don't know.
I don't know what I'm going to do with my life.
I didn't grow up sick.
I was never sick.
I was like once a year sick as a kid.
I don't know.
And I just, I don't even know who I am.
Like I do, but I don't.
It's just, I don't know what I'm going to do.
Well, have you had any indications or has there been anyone who's managed to turn this around to the point of regaining most, if not all, of their robustness?
Yes.
And they call that remission.
The remission being, I mean, some people have it after five years.
So, People have gotten POTS before me in 2020 or 2021, like early 2021.
I see them on Reddit and they'll mention it, but there's no guarantee.
But that would be nice.
Steph, there were periods last year where I would say maybe I would have a good week.
I wouldn't have one symptom.
And I was like, oh, this must be remission.
Like, this is great.
I can finally think.
And then I would just get punished with something severe that would be like I would be outside on my balcony with air hunger.
Moving Triggers Severe Pain00:15:18
And then there was another time I had a concussion and I woke up to my cats looking at me, drove myself to the ER.
So there have been times where I'm like, okay.
So I mentioned having trouble when I'm urinating, whatever that is, the vagus nerve.
Yeah, with the vagus nerve.
I'm sure this has happened to you where you've just gotten up too quickly and it's like, whoa.
That's a thing.
So I remember using the restroom and I guess I stood up to wash my hands.
And the next thing I know, like, this is the middle of the night.
I'm pretty much blinded.
I remember waking up and my cats were overlooking at me as my vision started coming back.
And I realized I had had a concussion later on.
But I drove to the ER and I went to them and I'm like, I don't know if I just had a stroke, whatever.
This is before I had learned about POTS.
But yeah, that's, you know, And here I am with like the brain fog again.
I'm trying to remember your question.
Oh, so when you said you had a concussion, I mean, again, my understanding is that a concussion is when you hit your head.
So do you mean that you passed out and hit your head?
Yep.
Yep.
From one of those, I guess, I don't know if you want to call it like a shortened flare up.
And I just, I lost consciousness and I, yeah, hit my head on the floor.
I mean, fortunately, it wasn't the bathroom tile, it was just right outside of it.
But, yeah.
Yeah, that was from one of these symptoms, from what I now know as POTS.
And why wouldn't you at least get into a flirty, potentially dating relationship with a woman who had a similar set of ailments?
I've never met anybody else with it.
But yeah, I've never considered that.
I don't know.
I don't know if it's just too tough.
But, Steph, you're spot on about that because.
Even like, even the like the trouble that I have just like walking and stuff, like I'll say, like, oh, I couldn't sit at a restaurant.
To me, where why I really don't want to date is like having to go in and explain these things.
I think deep down, that's really it.
And then here you are asking that I've never even considered it.
Maybe I need to do that.
I need to.
Why wouldn't you?
I mean, think about it.
I don't know if the stuff could be like two to I don't know.
I don't know.
I, but I, I love the suggestion.
Yes.
Oh, I know.
Yeah.
I know why you haven't, but why do you think you haven't?
Oh, oh, oh, oh.
Sorry, I didn't mean to swear.
That's fine.
I know, I know.
I've listened to thousands of your calls.
I know I'm going to say, I don't know.
And you're going to be like, no, you do.
I don't know.
Can I say that?
Because you don't want to get tied to a woman with this ailment because you are going to get better.
Or what if she gets better and you don't?
Ooh, yeah.
I'm going to feel like.
Huh.
Because if you get better and she doesn't, you'll leave her behind and vice versa.
True.
True.
What percentage of people have this remission after five years?
Percentage of people with POTS who have it after five years?
I don't know.
No, you said you have a remission.
You say some people have a remission after five years.
Oh, yeah.
Well, they said that's sort of the problem with the subreddit is like, not everybody comes back and says, oh, I went into remission.
So we don't really know.
They just normally.
Kind of like what you're saying now.
No, I'm not saying based on the Reddit.
I mean, based on some research.
I'm not sure.
I don't know.
And that five year period, I mean, COVID, what was six years ago?
So I think of the post COVID ones, we would just be seeing for like a year now.
I don't know stuff.
Right.
Well, if you're viewing it as a temporary position or a temporary situation, then you would be hesitant to date based upon this temporary situation.
Dating would be to accept that it might be permanent, like dating within this community.
I see.
Okay.
I mean, hope is a good thing.
Hope is a great thing, unless it's unwarranted.
Then hope is a paralytic, right?
Right.
I mean, it would have been easier to go through the last couple of years with a woman who understood your situation and you understood her situation.
At least you'd have some companionship, someone to talk to, someone to share ideas with, and also, you know, keep your flirting muscles going.
Sure.
I agree.
So you've avoided that, I assume.
Because to date, within the parts community or whatever you'd want to call it, would be to accept a potential permanence that's very tough to accept, right?
Sure.
And yeah, feeling like having to explain all these things that I don't even know, even four or five years into it.
And then, yeah, of course, I was still like a burden.
It was just like a liability.
And I don't want to be viewed that way.
No.
I see what you're saying.
Well, and you would be a burden to a woman who was healthy, but you wouldn't be a burden to a woman who shared your ailments because, I mean, you would both be in the same kind of situation and you could help each other.
That's true.
Because it's not heading in the right direction, right?
I mean, it's not getting better.
No, it's not.
And when did it first go in?
Help me understand the movement from monthly to daily.
That was, I mean, I've had different waves of it.
I would say over the last 18 months, it would go from daily to, yeah, every other day.
Since moving in December, it's been daily for three months.
The last three months, yeah, at least daily.
Now, why would it change from moving?
Oh, wait.
Do you know the answer?
No, God, no.
I'm just curious.
I didn't know if it was one of these.
I don't know.
And I do want to explain something real quick.
So I know you don't like locations.
I was in not the same mountains, but I was in more northern mountains closer to Canada when I first started experiencing these.
And then that's when I was like, okay, something's wrong.
I need to move south back home.
And then I started seeing the flare ups tick.
So it was like I knew that colder weather was better for pots generally.
And I had seen that my flare ups were better or more manageable in the mountains of the north.
So, oh, okay, let's try these.
It's not as north, but it's like three or four hours away from family.
And it's just been like the total opposite.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Why would it change from moving?
I say this in a ruminative way.
Okay.
It would be odd, right?
Yes.
Why would it change?
And it did escalate significantly.
How much did it change from December to now?
Yeah, a couple, like my three times I've been in the ER, of those, I've probably had maybe two dozen.
Different flare ups that were worse than like my ER flare ups.
And the only reason I didn't go, I mean, one time I was even in the car, I was like, I'm going.
I didn't go.
But yeah, they're rough.
And that was like, that was the stroke stuff.
Like it feels like a heart attack.
Like your limbs are numb.
Kind of don't know where you are.
You've got to sit down.
I mean, I was lying in my parking lot and that elderly neighbor was like, was helping me.
And it was like enough stuff.
Like I had the Bible like with me.
I was like, I'm not going to go out without it.
But it felt like it could be the end.
And then a few hours later, you feel silly.
You feel like you're coming back to yourself.
And it's just like, what was that?
And then you get another one the next day.
And yeah, they've been more significant since moving.
Under what theory could there be an explanation as to why it would change from moving?
With the worsening symptoms, you're asking?
Yeah, yeah.
Again, I don't know much about this illness, so I don't know.
But if somebody said to me, I have, I don't know, lung cancer and it got worse when I moved, that would be a little confusing, right?
Yes.
I don't know because it was everything.
Like I'm still doing my routines.
I wear compression socks.
I drink.
That's one thing, you know, to help with the blood pooling.
I do this grounding, you know, this routine in the mornings.
I wear ice packs on my head.
I do like all the things that they say to do drinking electrolyte water.
I drink a ton of sodium.
Sodium is a big thing.
I'm still doing all those.
I'm still doing the routines.
I'm even taking that new medication, the medication, but it started before the medication.
I started taking that medication in February because I had come back south where my cardiologist is and I'm like, hey, these are terrible.
But it was a four hour drive to my cardiologist.
And I had to, I told him I had to pull over once.
Like my flare up was so bad, like in the car.
I don't know.
I don't know.
And that cardiologist goes, okay, I try this.
Okay.
So, um, I just looked this up.
Moving house or changing locations is one of the most commonly reported triggers for parts flares in patient communities and discussions.
Have you heard of that?
I have not heard about this.
Okay.
Uh, so, uh, why?
Why?
One, physical exertion and upright activity, packing, lifting boxes, carrying items, cleaning, and walking around a lot involve prolonged standing, bending, and physical effort.
In parts, any increased physical demand makes blood pooling in the legs.
Abdomen worse because the autonomic nervous system struggles to constrict blood vessels and return blood to the heart efficiently.
This leads to higher heart rate, lower blood flow to the brain amid classic symptoms, dizziness, fatigue, palpitations, even, quote, normal moving tasks can feel like intense exercise and cause post exertional malaise, symptoms crashing hours or days later.
So there's that.
Two, stress, emotional and mental load.
Relocating is highly stressful, dealing with logistics, uncertainty, paperwork, goodbyes, or disruptions to routine.
Stress activates the sympathetic nervous system, which can amplify.
Tachycardia, anxiety like symptoms, and overall autonomic instability in parts.
Many people notice symptoms ramp up during the stressful period of moving and take time to settle afterwards.
Environmental changes moving to a hotter, more humid, or drier place.
Wow, that's quite a wide net.
Often worse than symptoms.
Heat dilates blood vessels, more pooling.
Humidity makes it harder for the body to cool itself.
Some people improve in cooler, drier climates, but the adjustment period can be rough.
Altitude changes going to a higher altitude, even moderate increases, reduces oxygen availability and air pressure.
This makes the heart work harder.
Worsens lightheadedness, fatigue, and shortness of breath.
Flying during the move adds cabin pressure changes and low humidity, which dehydrate you further and mimic altitude effects.
New home factors, different temperature control, air quality, allergens, mold, or even just getting used to new layouts, more stairs, different flooring can add subtle stressors.
Disrupted routines and self care.
During a move, it's common to have irregular sleep, skipped or irregular meals, dehydration from forgetting fluids or extra sweating, or less access to your usual management tools, compression, garments, salt, electrolytes, medications, fans, etc.
These disruptions lower your quote buffer against POTS symptoms.
So even small triggers hit harder.
Travel itself, driving long distances, sitting in cars, planes for hours involves immobility followed by sudden upright activity, which is sudden circulation.
So, in short, moving combines multiple major triggers at once physical effort, emotional stress, environmental shifts, and routine disruptions, which overwhelm the already impaired autonomic regulation in POTS and so on.
So, anyway, this is just from Grok.
None of this, of course, is medical advice or knowledge.
I have to use the same thing, say the same thing all the time.
But That seems to be a thing in pots that moving is a problem.
Thank you for that.
I didn't even know.
So help me understand.
Again, I know every time anybody tries to get an AI to explain symptoms, it's like, you're going to die.
It could be a headache or brain tumor, right?
So, like, we all understand that.
But I mean, if you say, my part symptoms are worse when moving or after moving, do you?
I mean, it's nice that you do this three hour yoga stuff, whatever.
That's good, I suppose.
But wouldn't you also say, gee, my, sorry to be annoying because it's easy from the outside, right?
But, but, gee, my symptoms are worse after moving.
Is that a thing?
Yeah, it's absolutely a thing.
Yes.
No, no, but you didn't know it was a thing until I looked it up.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm talking about moving around.
No, no, moving.
You said, since I moved, my pots are much worse, right?
And so I guess that would be my question as a whole, which is, wouldn't you say, since I moved, my pot symptoms are much worse?
Wouldn't you ask, AI or something like that.
I mean, just as a first run.
Again, it's not a doctor or anything like that, but I just, because I was like, why on earth would it be moving, blah, blah, blah.
And so I just looked it up and there's the answer.
And obviously, you're intelligent and brain aware enough to have these kinds of conversations.
There's got to be some kind of denial.
Like, why wouldn't you look that up?
And I don't mean this from some big critical standpoint.
I'm just generally curious.
My first question is, why would it change when you move?
And you could just type that into AI and you find out, yeah, it's very common.
It's one of the most commonly reported triggers.
You know, that's a good question.
Something I didn't put in the email to you, and something I haven't said in the call.
When I did move, so this was December, and then I mentioned like the worsening symptoms in January, there was a period of, I'd say, four or five weeks where I thought I had hit the remission.
So it was like the initial move, I'd been there, let's just say a month.
Environmental Factors in Health00:03:58
Everything was fine.
I may have had like one or two flare ups, but it was like this, it was the worsening stuff in January.
So I know we're talking about the move.
There was a month or so where I felt pretty normal.
There was something I heard you just say when you were referencing what Grok had said.
You mentioned the moving, or Grok mentioned the moving, but it said something about there can be an extended period for an adjustment.
I didn't have that initially, but maybe that sort of reverb effect after the month, potentially.
But I don't know how to answer that question, Steph.
I didn't look it up.
That's all I can tell you.
But yeah, probably should have.
Well, and I would assume that there's a kind of cross your fingers thing.
Like, I just hope it's going to get better rather than, you know, again, going to this free resource to just sort of look all of this stuff up.
And again, this doesn't give you definitive answers, but.
I think there is a recoil from the entire situation, which of course, I mean, I completely understand, but I think it would make sense to look this up.
So, you had a month in December after you moved when things were mostly okay, and you were like, what percentage back to normal were you?
I actually, 95%.
95%.
At least 90.
I was like, finally, I got it.
It made sense.
I was in the mountains before.
The symptoms were once a month, moved south, you know, with the humidity.
And it's like, I'm having them all the time.
It's like back up in the mountains.
Oh, like that, that was it.
Like I thought I had solved it.
And then I had, I remember that to start, it was like my, it was like a top three flare up.
Like it was bad enough.
I was like, I'm, I'm probably going to the ER.
And then since then, I've, I've pretty much had them daily.
And it hasn't stopped.
There's been no relief.
That's been for, yeah, for at least three months straight.
Okay.
And why have you looked up what causes variations in parts as a whole?
Yes.
But I know it's specifically from a viral infection.
No, no, but what causes the daily or short term fluctuations in symptoms?
Yes.
Like having low sodium levels.
Yes, yes.
I've looked all these things up.
Like a lot of the stuff that you just read.
Like normal day to day stuff.
Like, yeah, if you don't have sodium, if you don't have your electrolytes, if you're walking around too much, if you're standing up for too long, if you're sitting down for too long.
Yeah, yes, I've looked all these things up.
I'm aware of these things.
Okay.
And how is your sleep as a whole?
I'd say my sleep is pretty good.
Another thing with POTS, if you sleep for too long, you can get punished for the flare up.
Certainly if you don't get enough sleep.
You'll feel bad.
My sleep is pretty good.
It's enough to where I'm in bed most nights by eight, nine at the latest.
So, to answer your question, it's been good.
I've sort of fine tuned that with the knowledge that I need eight hours and I don't need 10, I don't need six.
Okay, got it.
All right.
So, you've identified all of that and you've tracked all of that and so on, right?
Okay, got it.
Okay.
So again, I'm sort of returning back to this.
I also like how you said, like, my God, I've exhausted all other possibilities.
I'm stuck with Steph.
I have to call Steph.
Everything else has failed me.
It's time to throw caution to the wind.
Seriously, like a few of my friends are going to listen to this call.
Finding Purpose Amidst Exhaustion00:10:17
And yeah, like, and one was the one who introduced me to you back in 2011.
Because we went to a night for freedom, all three of us did.
So they'll all listen to this, but we call you the goat.
There was one time.
You were in a call in show and I said, I called you the goat.
And I think you looked it up.
I don't, maybe you'd heard of it, but you're like, oh, the greatest of all time.
You took your shirt off.
I don't, do you remember that?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No.
And I just, I called you the goat.
That was me.
My daughter and I enjoyed playing Goat Simulator for a while.
So I just wasn't sure what that was.
Okay.
Okay.
Now, tell me about your life.
You got sick at what age?
This was 31.
You got, okay.
So tell me about your life.
At around 30, 31 before you got sick, what was going on?
Where was your life heading?
What was the general goals?
30, 31 was so I turned 30 in January of 2020.
So it was right before COVID.
In March of 2020, I would have been, yeah, 30 years, two months.
I lost my position.
During COVID.
So it was a period of like, yeah, 18 months where I didn't work.
And like I said, I'm an accountant, but I was doing anything to make money.
Like I was doing delivery work.
I was doing, I did door dashing.
I did like all this stuff.
I'm not asking for the details of your resume.
I'm asking.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
Goal and purpose and thrust of your life.
Oh, that's a good question.
I don't know.
It was having and securing a good, You know, job.
Okay, for what?
Hang on.
Hang on.
A good job for what?
Um, Or security and stability to meet the right person.
Okay.
So, sorry.
So, your goal in your 20s was to look for a life partner.
Did you want to have kids?
Did you want to get married?
I mean, what was the plan?
Yeah.
Yeah.
My early 30s when I was, yeah, 30 during COVID.
Absolutely.
I wanted to meet the right person.
And yeah.
Sorry.
And when did you first have the idea or the goal of getting married?
Probably around that time.
I remember in my 20s.
No, no, no.
Come on.
You've been listening to me forever and ever.
Amen.
You've heard me talk about this stuff forever and ever.
Amen.
And I'm not saying, of course, I'm not saying you have to agree with it.
But what I am trying to understand is it can't be that you've been listening to me since you were in your early 20s, but it wasn't until 30 that you thought about settling down.
I mean, you must have thought about it.
You may have rejected it, but you must have thought about it before that if you're listening to me, right?
Yeah.
And I, yeah.
Okay.
So I wasn't, I wasn't, and this is, we talked about this in the previous call.
Your relationship calls, like those sort of things, like I would just skip over it.
Like I was just like, ah, whatever.
Like, especially in my 20s, like, no, I wasn't sold on children.
But yeah, there's a certain point at like 30.
Yeah, my early 30s, definitely.
I'm like, I gotta find the right person.
No, but that's when you got sick, isn't it?
Yes, I was having.
Well, I'm sorry.
It was when I was almost 32 when I was really exhibiting stuff.
But in your early 30s, you were starting to think about settling down, right?
Yep.
Okay.
So tell me about the 10 years before that.
What was the goal and purpose and for whatness of your life?
Like, we all have to have a thing like, I'm getting up today.
For what?
Why?
Yeah, I don't.
So hang on, hang on.
Let me just sort of give you, because I know that the question is a little tricky.
So I just want to explain it so that we don't go through.
Down at least what for me are a couple of more blind alleys.
Sure.
So, the for what?
Like, what is my life for?
Like, for me, it's like, okay, we had house guests this week, so I get up to be a good host and make sure the house guests are enjoying themselves and doing stuff that's fun.
And we plan sort of games and activities and things that are enjoyable.
And I do shows.
That's why I didn't do a show last night because it was their last night here.
And so, of course, today I have a couple of call in shows.
I'm sort of getting back on the horse after taking.
A couple of days off last week.
And so, but yeah, in general, it's to bring happiness to the people I love, to receive happiness from the people I love, to spread philosophy, to hopefully do some good in the world, to apply my talents to the pursuit and promotion of virtue.
So that's the for what for me.
Right.
And so I'm trying to figure out.
So the 12 years from sort of 18 to 30, when you started, in a sense, getting serious about your life, what was the purpose of your life if you sort of think back on those?
On those things.
And one of the reasons I'm asking is that right now you do just about anything to go back to that level of health and robustness and well being.
But I need to sort of understand what were you doing with all of that health and robustness and well being?
What were you doing?
What was the purpose and larger goal?
And you can't say, well, just hedonism, because again, you'd been listening to me since your early 20s or whatever it was.
And so, what was the purpose of your life when you were healthy?
You know, starting a career in my early 20s as a financial accountant.
Getting promoted.
That's not a purpose.
Not a purpose.
Not a purpose.
That's just a thing you do.
Like everyone can do that.
Well, certainly in my early 20s, I was looking for.
I mean, I had a few girlfriends.
I had friends.
Like, we had a good time.
Like, okay.
So that's just, sorry, that's just heed and dissimilar.
There's nothing wrong with that.
It's fun.
But what was the purpose?
What was your life for?
So, my 20s, that was probably it.
Like, I wasn't even considering a family in my 20s.
Okay.
And it's not just a family.
It's not just about a family.
Right.
What was the purpose of your life that was larger than your own short term pleasures when you were younger?
I don't know, Steph, or maybe I do.
That's what you'll draw out of me.
I Yeah, I'm struggling to find anything, but yeah, I know that we're better than we are.
What do you want to get back to?
That's my question.
Like, again, I'm just, I'm not trying to put myself forward as any kind of standard here, but for me, it's like I've got a giant brain.
There's no way a little fucking tumor is taking it out.
I have way too much virtue and way too much good left to do.
It is unacceptable to die from a little fucking tumor.
Like, I'm not doing it.
I have way too much to do.
I have way too much gritty purpose to unleash on the planet.
There's no fucking way that is going to happen.
Now, That doesn't give me magical bulletproof tumor fighting capabilities, but I'm just telling you that was my perspective.
So, what if, you know, I can only deal with the mental aspects of illness?
Of course, I'm not a doctor, right?
So, I can only deal with the philosophical aspects of illness.
In other words, I can only give you a mindset that might give you the most robust approach to pursuing health.
Does that sort of make sense?
It does.
It does.
Okay.
So, if you get your health back tomorrow, What is that?
What is your life for?
What is it?
What are you going to do with your life?
For to get my health back tomorrow, I would get reestablished.
We're going back to purpose, right?
I would get back into my job and I would get back into the dating market.
Right.
So, exactly the same fucking answers you gave me about your early 20s sex and money, sex and money, sex and money.
Fucking great.
What are you, a bonobo?
Actually, they don't even have money.
Fucking and fiat.
Fucking and fiat.
No, sometimes it's fiat and fucking though, Steph.
You get your health back tomorrow.
What is the purpose of your existence?
Yeah, I don't, Steph, I mean, you're the goat.
Like, fuck, maybe I don't have a purpose.
I don't know if it is.
I mean, it certainly isn't.
I mean, with what you've done and how many lives you've changed.
Look, and I'm not saying it'd be me, but whatever.
I don't care.
Whatever it's going to be.
What is the purpose of your life?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I mean, I don't know if you've heard this sort of story.
The sort of story goes something like this This is told by people who take care of the aged or the elderly, that those people will sometimes hold off until after Christmas or after some anniversary or after Easter or after Thanksgiving, and then they'll die.
And the general idea is that they have something to live for.
And once they've achieved that, you know, I just want to see my whole family together at Christmas one more time.
And after that, I can go.
Okay.
I'm sure you've heard of long married couples having a higher likelihood of dying close to each other, right?
Yes.
Right.
Because especially, you know, I can't imagine life without my wife, right?
So, you know, we've only been married for like 24 years, right?
Hopefully, we'll make it for another 30 years or so.
And then it'll be more than half a century, which is, you know, almost as long as I've been alive.
And when she kicks the bucket, man, it's going to be pretty fucking tough to wake up.
Or, you know, statistically, I'm more likely to go first.
So, people tend to follow each other into the grave, if that makes sense.
Sure.
And like there's a million other things, which is sort of evidence that the will to health, the will to survive, the will to live, and maybe even the will to heal has something to do with purpose.
You know, like my wife and I love each other.
And, you know, a lot of the purpose in my life, a lot of the happiness in my life would go out with her.
Shared Life and Mutual Support00:02:12
Like you wind yourselves together, right?
Sure.
It's like two trees that grow together.
You can't just cut one of them down after a while, right?
And so I can't give you health, but I can give you a purpose, or at least identify the absence of purpose.
And in that circumstance or that situation, if you have a purpose, it takes you out of yourself.
Because one of the problems with chronic illness is it becomes very inward looking.
And again, I say this with no shred of criticism at all.
This is not a single shred of criticism.
But it's almost inevitable that you become very over focused, or you become very focused on, especially with variable illnesses, right?
Am I better?
Am I worse?
Is it a good day?
Is it a bad day?
How do I feel?
Is that a symptom?
No, that was just a twinge, right?
It becomes very inward focused, right?
It's exactly that.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, it's obsessive.
And again, I understand this when I first had tinnitus.
And again, I know that tinnitus is like minus 0.07% of importance relative to what you're dealing with.
So I say this with all due humility, just as a way of sort of saying, I think I get it a little bit.
Is, oh, it's louder today.
Oh, it's quieter today.
Oh, maybe it's gone.
Oh, it's better.
No, and you just have to, for me, I just had to grip my teeth and say, shut the fuck up about your tinnitus.
Just let it do its thing.
Right.
And I've also, of course, noticed, you know, I just stopped for a moment and listened.
I can still hear the whine in my left ear, but I don't generally tend to think of any problems that I'm having when I'm doing a call in show because I'm focused on the other person.
I'm focused on trying to figure out what value I can add to the situation, particularly in a complex medical situation like this, right?
So, it's a relief from myself to have a purpose.
So, I see.
What is your life going to be for, assuming you get better?
I don't know.
I mean, like, really.
So, in those text sites, that's like my parents, like, oh, just make sure my cats are okay.
Right now, wait, what?
World Needs Me Despite Illness00:10:55
Is this like your parents?
Oh, like, when I have like severe symptoms, I think I mentioned it earlier.
Oh, you're like, yeah, make sure my cats are okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
As far as I understand that for somebody who's not well, as an overall life goal, make sure my cats are okay is kind of sad.
Right.
Oh, no, it certainly is.
Like, I'm trying to find purpose.
And, Steph, you said absence of purpose.
Like, I, here it is.
Like, I'm like, I'm really trying to find.
And when you had your health and philosophy, you really didn't have any purpose.
Yeah.
You're right.
I didn't.
Right.
As to whether those two things are related, I don't know.
But again, I can't help you with the health.
I can only help you with the purpose.
And I do believe, if I had to really guess, I do believe that the health and the purpose are related.
It's certainly interesting.
Huh.
I didn't grok this.
Grok what?
My purpose, and if this was, if these were related or could be.
Okay, let me ask it to you another way.
When you look back at the 12 years from 18 to 30, what good did you do or create in the world?
I certainly didn't create much, but good was probably distributing your shows.
No, no, that's secondhand.
I mean, you, and I appreciate that.
I'm not trying to say, hey, that's obviously important, but that's not you doing it.
No, probably.
I mean, not very much.
I mean, I just feel, yeah, I certainly was, I certainly was, you know, some drone.
It was just like, oh, go to school.
Oh, you graduated, get a good job.
It's like, all of that stuff, like, not terribly much.
I can't think of anything that I've created.
I don't know.
I mean, I tutored finance and accounting.
I help people with that.
Is that something?
I mean, look, it's not the worst thing in the world to teach people some practical skills.
Sure, whatever, right?
But I'm really trying to.
Yeah, not much.
So here's the thing you need to live a life that if you're out of action, people notice.
Not just your family, because that's kind of baked in, or your friends, that's kind of historical.
But, you know, if I dropped dead tomorrow, I mean, obviously there'd be.
People who would be kind of sad, right?
And, oh, I guess some people who'd be happy too, but some people would be kind of sad, right?
Right.
And so, what has the world lost in terms of virtue or purpose or something larger than yourself?
What has the world lost by you being unwell?
I mean, if you were supposed to fight, if you and I were going to war together and we trained together and we were best buds and army soldiers that worked together, then if you got sick, I'd have to go to war.
On my own, right?
And that would be very bad.
That would be very negative for me.
So, what has the world lost other than, you know, an accountant who likes to date, right?
What has the world lost by you being sick?
And I know that sounds like a really mean question.
I don't mean it that way at all.
I'm just trying to sort of jolt you out of the inward looking symptom management stuff, which everybody who's unwell, particularly if it's lengthy and the symptoms waver.
Right, uh, everybody who's unwell, where the symptoms waver and it goes on for a long time, becomes self-obsessed.
Everybody, and again, this is no criticism, I'm just trying to break that cycle.
So, what has the world missed outside of friends and family by you being out of commission?
Yeah, that's it.
Like, I was like, my response was going to be, I get, yeah, friends and family, and yeah, you said accept, and it's like, yeah, it doesn't count.
I can't really think, I can't, I can't think of anything, nothing, I don't know, nothing.
Not much.
Okay.
So, in my goal, again, if I were in your shoes, and I've been there not for quite as long as you have, but on all of that, right?
So, my goal would be I have to figure out something that is larger than me that allows me to ignore myself.
I have to, and this is a general thing in life as a whole, I have to think of something that's larger than me that allows me to escape.
Myself allows me to ignore myself.
Oh, God.
Ignoring yourself is one of the greatest gifts in the known universe.
Being uninterested in yourself is glorious.
And unfortunately, if for reasons of, you know, real medical difficulties, you have become somewhat self-obsessed.
And again, I say this with no criticism.
It's just, it's a natural, it's inevitable.
But in order to break that cycle, you got to have something larger than yourself that matters or it's going to be symptom management until the end of time.
You're right.
You're exactly right.
I mean, cause I'll be on calls with family or friends and, uh, yeah, I'll say that.
I'm like, I'll stop myself.
I'm like, I'm a broken record.
We're back here again.
You're exactly right.
And God help it if people say to you, Oh, shut up.
No, I'm serious about that.
And I don't mean that in any negative way to anyone involved.
Sure.
But if people were to say, Oh, pick a new topic, man.
Give me something that ain't about your inner twinges and trembles and twingles and twerps and burps and hiccups and up and down and right.
Well, yeah, I even said I forwarded my message to one of my friends or to a couple of them, and one was like, Oh, I didn't even know you were going through this.
And that's where I'm like, I don't want to tell you everything.
It's just like constant.
It's just, yeah, I get that.
Nobody's told me to shut up, but yeah, they certainly should have.
Well, I don't know, but what I'm not telling you, listen, I'm very glad that you talked to me about it, and I'm glad that we have had this discussion.
I really am.
And again, I just really, I know this sounds like, you know, asshole tough love.
I don't know, maybe it is or whatever, right?
But my general thing is that I can't help you with the physical stuff because I ain't a doctor and it doesn't sound like the doctors can either.
I can help you with the existential stuff.
Right.
And the existential stuff is you've got to have a life that's not just about you.
And the problem with chronic illness, particularly with variable symptoms, is it is very easy to become solvacistic to make it all about yourself because you're self monitoring all the time.
And again, massive sympathies.
I think I understand.
I've certainly been there to some degree, but you have to, I think, find some way to have a purpose that is like, okay, shit, if I get better, if I get better, what am I going to do with that?
Now, you'd throw yourself back into your career, you'd throw yourself back into dating and all of that, right?
Okay.
And look at it, obviously, having a job and having a girlfriend is fine.
I'm not trying to say that this is bad and you should be a monk who's eating subway rats or something like that.
I'm not trying to say that.
But I'm saying it's still going to be something more than just about.
Your life, your comforts, your preferences.
You have to have a life wherein the world needs you to get better.
Right.
So, for me, when I was sort of facing my illness, it was like, no, the world needs me.
The world can't do without me.
And I genuinely believe that.
I think the world desperately needs me and the world can't do without me.
So, it's like, fuck, no, I'm not letting this shit take me down.
Like, the world needs me too much.
And just my family and my new daughter and so on.
Right.
So, that is.
You've got to have something outside of yourself that is worth.
I'm going to say getting better because it's not directly under your control.
But.
The stress maintains itself with a constant self regard.
Am I better or am I worse?
And you feel a little bit better, but then the moment you feel a little bit better, you're worried it's going to crash again.
And like it's just this constant, it's like a tinnitus of stress.
It's variable or something like that, right?
Got to have something.
I mean, when was the last time you forgot that you were ill?
There hasn't been a day.
I forgot that I was ill.
Yeah.
Not this year.
It hasn't been this year.
I don't know.
Maybe when I thought I was in remission last year, at least six months, maybe a year ago.
It certainly hasn't been this year.
Right.
Well, I do think you're going to have to find something that allows you to get out of your innards and forget that you're ill.
Okay.
That's got to be a bigger purpose.
Now, maybe that is helping somebody else, maybe that is bringing happiness.
To somebody who shares the same ailments, if that's something you could work on.
Because there's some really nice woman out there who's struggling with these ailments as well.
And she could use some love and you could use some love and all of that.
But that would require you to focus on someone else.
And it's really tough when you're chronically ill, especially again with variable symptoms.
It's really tough to say, you should stop focusing on yourself.
But I mean, really, what's the alternative?
Yeah.
I mean, that's it too.
I mean, you said something that, I mean, 10 minutes ago, like, I was like, oh, is that a symptom?
I mean, that's it.
Like, any little thing, it's just like, whoa, like, what was that?
Like, is this a flare up?
Is what a symptom?
I'm sorry.
Oh, something that happened for you was like distracted you from the convo because you're like, oh my gosh, it's that.
Yeah, like something like, yeah, something in my chest or like my calf.
It's like, wait, is that, is this, am I about to have a flare up?
It really is like that all the time.
Like, it really is.
Well, and getting worse.
Is stressful and getting better is stressful, especially if you've had some remissions because you're like, oh, this isn't going to last.
Oh, God, right?
And like I said, yeah, I just get punished for it.
It's like I just have the worst flare up ever.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, like, don't.
I can't even think of that.
Health body.
I know you're just going to turn on me like Benedict Donald and stab me in the back.
Judas body.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I get it.
And it just becomes very much all about yourself.
And, you know, when I was sort of under attack or, you know, the various things that have happened over the course of my career or deplatforming, man, it was great to do shows.
It was great.
Philosophical Shift Toward Others00:09:13
Great to chat with people about things unrelated.
Great to go out and play stupid sports.
Great to.
Go work out till my arms were humming.
Great to do shows because it just gets you out of your own head, right?
I mean, especially like, you know, white people are in a default state of mild anxiety.
It's just a winter thing, it's a cold thing, and all of that.
And that gets worse when under attack, and it gets worse when you are sick, of course, for a lengthy time.
And trying to find a way to break the cycle of circular thinking.
Is really, really important.
And the only way that I know how to do it, and I think the best way to do it, is to focus on something outside of yourself that is important and necessary and, you know, hopefully also, you know, promotes virtues or promotes virtue and does good in the world to whatever way you can, right?
I mean, have you thought of even something like if there's a group of parts sufferers to say, is there anyone in the neighborhood we can at least meet up?
At least complain to each other.
So we're not just complaining to ourselves.
Okay.
Not online.
So, like local?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Someone where you can actually meet someone to sort of get out of the house thing.
You have a purpose that's larger than just the day.
You're still going to end up with a standard of living higher than 99.9999% of human beings throughout history, if that makes sense.
Sure.
So as far as money and all of that goes, if I were in your shoes, I just like, you've got to find something bigger than yourself that gives you a reason for being.
And that is not, you know, and maybe it has something to do, you know, it's funny because I, you know, I was going to say that when I said, well, what would you do if you regained your health tomorrow?
One of the things I thought you might say would be like, I am going to like do the most amazing work educating people about this ailment and helping the public to understand it and help to raise awareness, like whatever it is, right?
Sure.
But no, it's like, I'll start dating again.
I'll get another accounting job, blah, right?
Yeah.
That's not enough, bro.
That's pretty telling stuff.
That's not enough.
Well, I'll go back to making it all about me again after making it, you know what I mean?
I'll go back to my smaller pleasures.
That's terrible.
No.
As opposed to, yeah, you know, there's a huge misunderstanding and underappreciation.
Or you could say, oh, man, I am going to dedicate my life to finding out if the vaccine does this shit because, man, that would give us, you know, if we can find the course, maybe we can find the cure.
Or, like, I thought, man, I thought you might say something like, man, if I get my health back, I'm throwing myself into trying to solve this problem for all mankind, you know, or something, something.
Or I'm going to at least start a parts group locally and give people hope and, like, something that's not just.
You and what you want as an individual, if that makes sense.
No, and that's pretty telling.
I mean, God, like, here, let me tell you this, too.
Like, what, I've had this for four or five years.
I don't think I've ever even thought like that before.
And that's embarrassing.
And I have no reason to be embarrassed.
That's why I'm the last desperate.
Of course, you pull this stuff out.
Like, I love it.
I love it.
Right.
So you gotta just, and that's what I was sort of waiting for.
You know, they're a, you know, the old thing that, you know, some guy survives lung cancer and then he goes around educating teenagers about the dangers of smoking or something like that, right?
Right.
And it's like, holy shit, if I got my health back tomorrow, man, the things I would do.
And it's like, no, I'd pretty much just pick up where I left off, you know, like a save game.
Oh my God.
And it's like, that's not enough.
Oh my God.
Oh, that's why I was asking about your 20s, right?
What was the purpose?
You need to put, you need, everybody needs a purpose larger than themselves.
Everybody.
And that's what religion provides to people as a whole, right?
Sure.
And it's not there for you.
And I think, I think part of the barrier to regaining or recovering health is that fundamental what's it for?
Okay.
If I get my health back, what am I going to do with it?
Now, if you have a giant goal or a big goal or something that's larger than yourself, it's going to do good in the world in some manner.
And you now have, you know, if you were to regain your health tomorrow.
You would have the experience of having lived with this horrifying condition for close on half a decade, and you had to have particular insight into.
I mean, I don't think many people know about it.
And I think it's because a lot of people who have it kind of cocoon or just talk amongst themselves.
Yeah, it's certainly the case.
And yeah, the only reason, yeah, after three ER visits, it was just like one neighbor said, Hey, younger people are getting this.
Like, check that out.
And then I searched the symptoms and I was like, Oh, I have it.
Like, I knew it almost.
Immediately.
And yeah, just like the two athletes I had mentioned, I mean, they may go into like an early retirement because of it.
But yeah, outside of that, nothing.
And part of that was like, I was thinking, okay, well, this is costly.
Like, who's going to pick up the tab here?
Right.
Because the treatment and stuff is expensive.
So it's like all these people, all these groups, I should say, like encouraged people to get this.
And I'm sure still are.
Like, I still see like, yeah, the vaccine signs and like any pharmacy.
Well, and maybe, you know, if you get your health back or even if you don't, right?
I mean, you can plan for like, geez, maybe I can just find some way to raise awareness.
Maybe I can interview people.
Maybe I can publish.
Maybe I can write about it.
Maybe I can do more research about it because you've got time, right?
Because you're off work and so on, right?
Do more research about it, trying to find the causality, trying to link it to whatever it might.
You know, I mean, obviously you're not a doctor, but holy shit, there's tons of stuff that you could do given how intelligent you are.
Sorry, go ahead.
No, I keep interrupting you.
I was just like, I can't even stop myself.
That is such a great idea.
I'm going to start on this today.
And how do you feel when I talk about the sort of larger purpose stuff?
Oh my God, I just got like this rushed.
Like, holy shit, I could help people.
Like, I can help people with this.
I know exactly what they're going through.
Nobody else does.
Right.
And you have the philosophical angle, too.
Which is a very unusual combo, right?
Man, thank you.
And you also have a built in audience in terms of my forums and the locals community and the Telegram community and like, You have a lot of places to publish where people would be interested.
And this is.
And there may be other people in the community, in the free domain community.
I'm sure there are, who are suffering from similar things.
And at least get a community going and just get out of that inevitable.
And again, I say this with great sympathy and not a single shred of criticism the inevitable navel gazing of self obsession that comes with a lengthy ailment.
Yeah.
And even that NBA player, before they had said pots, they had mentioned these symptoms.
Maybe five or six months before.
And I'm a big sports guy.
And I knew it was that.
And I even reached out to him recently.
Steph, I'm absolutely going to do this.
Good.
I feel totally renewed.
I feel great.
I feel like this rush.
I haven't had it in a long time.
I feel renewed.
Life is philosophical purpose.
Human life is philosophical purpose.
And without the philosophical purpose, it's very hard to feel robust and energetic for most people.
This is why a lot of people, you know, that life, most people live lives of quiet desperation of one kind or another.
Philosophical purpose, moral purpose is the key.
And if you have that, man, I feel there's almost nothing that can't be achieved, especially if you have an ailment that is to some degree stress dependent, because getting out of yourself and focusing on the bigger and better things in the world is just such a great relief from the self, if that makes sense.
Certainly.
This is, thank you.
Thank you.
Like, I, I, oh my God, man.
You, why you're the greatest.
Oh, very welcome.
You're very welcome.
Listen, I'm going to, I'm going to jump off here because it sounds like you've got some stuff to sketch out.
Is that all right?
Yep.
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you so much for your time.
Is there any way I can leave like my information if anybody wants to get, or I'll just, I'll post on the forum.
Yeah, I'll post it in the forum and shoot me your email.