Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux - My Father Just Had a HEART ATTACK! CALL IN SHOW
Aired: 2026-03-23
Duration: 03:02:51


=== Wavering on Family Ties (14:55) ===

[00:00:00]  My dad just had a heart attack and it made me want to waver on my decision to cut him from my life.
[00:00:05]  I was considering reaching out to him if he wakes up from his coma.
[00:00:08]  Thankfully, I have a wife to keep me morally consistent.
[00:00:11]  The Free Domain community was helpful too.
[00:00:13]  But it all woke me up to an issue.
[00:00:16]  I waver.
[00:00:16]  I'm now 34.
[00:00:18]  I started listening to you, Stefan, at about age 19.
[00:00:21]  I consumed your content with zeal and spread your ideas and arguments among my friends and peers while I studied philosophy in university.
[00:00:28]  I didn't actually consistently apply the principles to my own life, though.
[00:00:32]  I suppose it was entertainment, a real shame, because I could have saved myself a lot of time and trouble.
[00:00:37]  I knew what was true, but I wavered on those principles and pursued bad women, bad friends, a bad degree, and a bad career goal in uni academia.
[00:00:45]  At 22, I moved to Japan for a one-year soul-searching trip.
[00:00:49]  Japan was very pleasant.
[00:00:51]  My decision wavered.
[00:00:52]  I stayed there for nine years without a clear goal.
[00:00:56]  After another failed lust-based relationship there, I started to try to actually apply Stefan's principles to my life.
[00:01:02]  I was getting more and more serious and zealous about living with moral and philosophical consistency.
[00:01:07]  At about 25, I cut off contact with my parents after having the talk.
[00:01:11]  At 27, I wavered.
[00:01:13]  I decided philosophy was insufficient for ascertaining true meaning and moral clarity and became a fundamental Baptist Christian, devoted to following the Bible to the letter.
[00:01:22]  This included re-establishing family contact for the purpose of evangelizing them.
[00:01:26]  My parents and brother converted.
[00:01:28]  I married a Japanese Christian woman.
[00:01:30]  We evangelized with zeal often every day and attended church three times per week.
[00:01:35]  We moved to Australia to be with a more zealous church and flew internationally for evangelism marathons.
[00:01:40]  I frequently preached sermons for the church and was the music and song leader for every service.
[00:01:45]  My zeal for God and the Bible was intense from 27 to 33 until philosophy broke it.
[00:01:50]  I wavered.
[00:01:52]  Asterisk, back to free domain, though I'm glad this time.
[00:01:56]  During the six years of close contact with my parents, they behaved poorly and frequently offended me and my wife, but we overlooked it.
[00:02:02]  After my faith in the Bible was broken, I confronted my parents about it and got a bad response, but I cut them off last year.
[00:02:10]  I'm a waverer, but I am glad I am where I am now.
[00:02:13]  I just want the stability to remain on track, and I want this stability to also catch up for lost time to get my life and ambition back on track, because I'm very behind.
[00:02:21]  Please help me to be steadfast and unwavering and to get my life and ambition back on track.
[00:02:27]  That is quite a tale, and I appreciate that.
[00:02:30]  It's pretty wild to think the show has been around long enough for you to go from 19 to 38.
[00:02:40]  30, 34.
[00:02:41]  Yeah, that's wild.
[00:02:42]  That is wild.
[00:02:43]  And tell me a little bit about the Japan thing.
[00:02:47]  You said you spent nine years in Japan aimlessly?
[00:02:51]  How is that possible?
[00:02:52]  What did you do?
[00:02:53]  Well, I mean, I had to put it in a sentence.
[00:02:57]  The aims were short to medium term.
[00:03:00]  It wasn't like I was just completely aimless, but there was no true long-term goal.
[00:03:12]  So I went there after finishing university because I was still listening to you and I was thinking that a career in academia might not be the best choice and I was kind of wavering on it.
[00:03:21]  So I thought I'd take my time there and see if there were perhaps other options available for using philosophy and whatnot in a free market way.
[00:03:30]  And while I was there, I was doing what most people do when they go to Japan at a young age, which was teaching English.
[00:03:38]  And I worked my way up the private school to the head teacher and the curriculum manager.
[00:03:45]  And I was also the head teacher trainer.
[00:03:49]  So I would spend, I would suppose, only half my time actually teaching and a lot of the time training other teachers and doing curriculum work and whatnot.
[00:03:58]  So I was doing well in that company.
[00:04:00]  I was also working a second job as a cocktail bartender.
[00:04:05]  And this was kind of like a hobby thing for me.
[00:04:09]  I never got involved in alcohol after I became a Christian, but this was before then.
[00:04:16]  And I did well there.
[00:04:18]  I became the, I guess, one of the main bartenders in that place and more of a managerial role till eventually there was actually an opportunity to purchase the bar from the owner, which I did.
[00:04:30]  And I actually owned the bar and ran events from it for a while, all while working as the teacher slash other in the private school, the English school.
[00:04:41]  And so things were not terrible there.
[00:04:45]  I had opportunities and I was pushing things along.
[00:04:49]  And all the while I was sort of tinkering with philosophy and writing this or that.
[00:04:54]  And I can't say it was a complete waste of time.
[00:04:58]  I was watching videos from a number of creators and reading different books.
[00:05:03]  And eventually it led me to Christianity, to church, where I got seriously involved.
[00:05:07]  And I put my heart into it.
[00:05:09]  I put my zeal into it as I wrote.
[00:05:10]  And it wasn't like I was sitting around playing video games.
[00:05:15]  I was trying to attack life.
[00:05:17]  I was trying to go for it.
[00:05:18]  But I'm 34 now and I can just only look back and see that I've just changed my mind so many times that it's more or less been for nothing.
[00:05:26]  And when I felt that fear that I was wavering after my dad had a heart attack, I thought, I can't go through this again.
[00:05:31]  I need to talk this stuff off.
[00:05:33]  Very cool.
[00:05:33]  Very cool.
[00:05:34]  And I didn't mean to imply, of course, that you just sat around playing video games.
[00:05:38]  I'm just always fascinated by finances and to go and live in Japan, you can't really be aimless.
[00:05:46]  So the income thing.
[00:05:47]  So you had two jobs, which is pretty wild and a lot of work.
[00:05:51]  And did you date much in Japan?
[00:05:53]  I mean, I know you're married now, but did you date much when you were younger?
[00:05:58]  Yes, yes, I did.
[00:06:00]  So I got there when I was 22.
[00:06:02]  And within the first year, I was already in a relationship.
[00:06:08]  And keep in mind, I was listening to you and I loved your work.
[00:06:11]  And this woman was a single mother.
[00:06:15]  So that should love the work.
[00:06:18]  That should highlight.
[00:06:20]  Well, it was like I, like I wrote, I feel like it was just entertainment consumption because how can I say that I was any kind of follower of your principles when I was when I was doing stupid immoral things like that?
[00:06:31]  Hang on.
[00:06:32]  So, I mean, the single mom thing, it's just a warning flag.
[00:06:35]  It doesn't necessarily mean, I mean, she was, if she was a highly virtuous single mother who had learned philosophy and reformed her ways, it's not, it's an automatic thing.
[00:06:44]  But tell me a little bit about how you got involved with a single mother.
[00:06:50]  There was nothing virtuous about it.
[00:06:53]  In the mornings before work, I would ride my bike to local cafes, bakeries and whatnot to get breakfast and eat it by the beach.
[00:07:05]  It was a lovely lifestyle while I was there.
[00:07:07]  And one of the cafes that I visited just happened to have an extremely attractive Japanese woman that was working there.
[00:07:16]  She was the manager.
[00:07:18]  And I just worded with her and it went pretty quickly.
[00:07:22]  And we began a relationship.
[00:07:25]  But it was based solely on the fact that she was very attractive.
[00:07:31]  Okay.
[00:07:31]  And did you have a relationship with her child as well?
[00:07:35]  I met her child sometimes.
[00:07:38]  And yeah, there was occasional just fun conversations and a bit of playtime and whatnot.
[00:07:46]  And But no serious development of any kind of relationship because we weren't dating for long and I didn't want any kind of pair bonding to occur with me and the child.
[00:07:59]  So I was polite and fun, but tried to keep, I suppose, an appropriate and professional distance as much as that is possible.
[00:08:10]  All right, got it.
[00:08:11]  And how long did that relationship last?
[00:08:13]  About a year, I would say.
[00:08:17]  Yeah.
[00:08:18]  Maybe less, maybe a bit less from memory now, yeah.
[00:08:21]  And did she want a longer relationship?
[00:08:25]  Was it like a fling or how did it play out in the long run that way?
[00:08:30]  Well, I was I was trying to have my cake and eat it too.
[00:08:35]  I wanted to turn this attractive single mother who was only interested in having fun into a serious, you know, philosophical and consistent woman, which it's ridiculous looking back.
[00:08:49]  But, you know, I believe that I had the magic, the magic touch, so to speak, and that maybe she could turn her life around and be a consistent.
[00:09:02]  Yeah, that's the one.
[00:09:03]  I'm just checking.
[00:09:04]  Just checking.
[00:09:04]  And did you have a special attraction for East Asian women or is it mostly neutral?
[00:09:10]  You sound white yourself, although, of course, that doesn't necessarily mean you are.
[00:09:16]  Yeah, for context, my mother is Polish and my father is Egyptian, and I was born and raised in Australia.
[00:09:24]  So quite the confused mix.
[00:09:28]  I suppose I speak more along the lines of my mother and with a slight Australian accent.
[00:09:35]  It's a bit of a confusing accent, but no one can quite put their fingers on.
[00:09:38]  I'm sure you can really.
[00:09:39]  Been there.
[00:09:39]  Okay.
[00:09:40]  All right.
[00:09:41]  Okay.
[00:09:41]  And then how did things end with the single mom?
[00:09:46]  There was her desire to be a very playful and loose woman, and I didn't want that as she was flirting with other guys and whatnot.
[00:10:00]  It just annoyed me to no end.
[00:10:02]  And eventually I broke up with her in quite a public and dramatic manner.
[00:10:10]  I just sort of walked out on her during in a bar.
[00:10:13]  Well, it was the bartender's birthday of some cocktail bar that we both liked to go to.
[00:10:19]  And she was having a lot of fun with, it was actually no flirting, surprisingly, with her girlfriends.
[00:10:29]  And just the conversation topic was on, you know, that settling down is silly and that kind of stuff.
[00:10:36]  And I just got annoyed with that and decided that I've had enough and left.
[00:10:41]  She followed me dramatically out of the bar and held my hand and didn't want me to go and gave me a kiss and very Hollywood.
[00:10:50]  But I left.
[00:10:52]  Okay.
[00:10:52]  And what was the impetus for leaving?
[00:10:56]  Was there some incident or just sort of that growing unease thing?
[00:11:02]  I suppose it was the straw that broke the camel's back.
[00:11:05]  It felt intense at the time, but thinking back, I suppose nothing particularly strong happened at that moment that would have caused such a dramatic and instant reaction.
[00:11:14]  Also, sorry, I feel like two questions ago, I didn't completely answer your question.
[00:11:18]  You asked me about, you know, I sound white, but I feel like that was an add-on to your actual question.
[00:11:27]  I'm just trying to.
[00:11:28]  Yeah, so the other half, I was going to circle back on that.
[00:11:30]  The other half was, do you have a particular attraction to East Asian women or it was just that's that's where you were?
[00:11:39]  That's it.
[00:11:40]  Uh, I would say yes.
[00:11:42]  Um, I sort of grew up with anime and video games.
[00:11:49]  And I, where did it start?
[00:11:54]  My second girlfriend was Chinese.
[00:11:59]  And this was also just a very lust-based thing.
[00:12:03]  It was in high school.
[00:12:05]  I suppose I was in year 10.
[00:12:07]  And I joined a new friendship group.
[00:12:11]  And they all had their friends from outside, from a neighboring girls' school.
[00:12:18]  And we would play badminton in a gym near both of our schools.
[00:12:22]  And I went in there and I was quite athletic.
[00:12:25]  I sort of dominated the field and showed off and got the attention of the girls.
[00:12:29]  And yeah, I know badminton very attractive, classically attractive.
[00:12:36]  But they all liked it.
[00:12:36]  So I suppose through that, they all more or less liked me.
[00:12:41]  But I could tell that the boys were getting jealous of my showmanship, not just in the sport, but also the flirtatious attitude that I had towards women.
[00:12:57]  I did do ping pong before badminton, actually.
[00:12:59]  That's a little bit more of a chimpanzee.
[00:13:00]  For my time in China, from my time in China, more fizzle sports are one thing, but the reaction sports are quite another when it comes to competing with the East Asians.
[00:13:11]  But anyway, go on.
[00:13:13]  Yeah, I did ping pong, and all the Asians wiped the floor with me.
[00:13:17]  So in this gym, I would flirt with all the girls, and I didn't really care if they were dating my quote-unquote friends at the time.
[00:13:27]  And it ends up being that I had in my palms, so to speak, two of the girlfriends of two of my friends from my school.
[00:13:38]  And they were both giving me opportunity to be with them.
[00:13:44]  And I sort of strung limbos along for a couple of months before choosing to date one of them and break the other one's heart.
[00:13:54]  And the friendships didn't really last after that.
[00:13:57]  There was actually a public fight that I had with one of the boys in the gym as I was playing badminton with him.
[00:14:04]  And I scored a couple of points that I celebrated.
[00:14:07]  And then he just jumped underneath the net and started hitting me with his racket.
[00:14:11]  And the racket broke.
[00:14:12]  And then I decked him, as they say in Australia, after that.
[00:14:17]  And didn't really have any kind of friendship with him after that.
[00:14:21]  Although it was cordial because we shared some of the same classes and some of the same friends.
[00:14:27]  So yeah.
[00:14:29]  I suppose after that, I didn't have any Asian girlfriends until Japan, where I went on some dates with girls.
[00:14:39]  There was that relationship with this one manager at the cafe, the single mother.
[00:14:46]  And after, I know you didn't ask, but after that, the next girlfriend was an English woman.
[00:14:54]  So not Asian.

=== Aiming Towards Marriage (08:51) ===

[00:14:55]  Yeah, English woman has become increasingly complicated these days, but you mean like a white woman?
[00:15:01]  Yes, yes.
[00:15:02]  I mean, genetically and national nationality.
[00:15:06]  And sorry.
[00:15:08]  I just wanted to mention that that was a five-year relationship, quite a serious one, which didn't work out.
[00:15:17]  But I was serious about the relationship and I was angling towards marriage.
[00:15:22]  So I can't say that I wasted her 20s on purpose or anything like that.
[00:15:25]  I was also at that time very serious about your concepts.
[00:15:28]  And I was getting her.
[00:15:29]  And we would listen to you together quite frequently.
[00:15:32]  There was some things she would agree with, some she would disagree with.
[00:15:35]  I would say she was just very much a normie and wanted to spend the rest of her 20s wasting her own time.
[00:15:43]  That's quite a lot.
[00:15:43]  Okay, so for what age were you with the English girl?
[00:15:47]  23 or so onwards.
[00:15:50]  I finished the relationship with the English girl.
[00:15:53]  I had a small period of being single before I met my and how old was the English girl?
[00:16:00]  She was younger than me by a couple of years, I believe.
[00:16:04]  So she was 20, I believe, when we started.
[00:16:09]  And I'd finished university.
[00:16:11]  She was still in university.
[00:16:12]  She was doing a international, she was studying in Japan as an international student.
[00:16:17]  So it began with a year together, then a period of long-distance relationship where I went to England and Italy, where she was also doing studies several times a year.
[00:16:28]  And then she came back to Japan and moved after her degree finished.
[00:16:31]  And we stayed together during that time.
[00:16:35]  And you were aiming, sorry, after if you're listening to me, like, and you're dating and dating and dating, what does it mean to be aiming towards marriage?
[00:16:46]  I suppose that's exactly it.
[00:16:47]  I was listening to you and I was getting, I would say, comparatively more serious than I used to be about your concepts and principles, but I was still not able to make fast and correct decisions regarding wasting her time, wasting my time.
[00:17:05]  I thought that just more.
[00:17:06]  It's not fast if it's years.
[00:17:09]  Well, that's exactly my point.
[00:17:11]  I was wasting time and I wasn't able to make the correct decision regarding that speed and pulling the trigger one way or the other to exit the relationship.
[00:17:18]  I should have.
[00:17:19]  I should have done that.
[00:17:20]  And I knew the concepts, but I just wasn't able to.
[00:17:22]  When you said exit the relationship, at what point in the five-year relationship did you realize that it wasn't going to work out?
[00:17:31]  I don't think I had that.
[00:17:32]  Sorry, you said you should have made someone else.
[00:17:33]  Sorry, I apologize because I'm pretty wrong.
[00:17:35]  I thought you said that you knew you wanted to exit the relationship or you should have exited the relationship.
[00:17:42]  Was there a point where you realized it wasn't?
[00:17:44]  That's sort of what I'm trying to understand.
[00:17:45]  If there was a point where you realized when it wasn't going to work out.
[00:17:49]  I feel like it was just hypocrisy, like rules, rules for thee and not for me.
[00:17:55]  I can't claim ignorance and say I didn't know.
[00:17:59]  Like if I was analyzing someone else's relationship, I would tell them that they're wasting their time, but that didn't apply to me.
[00:18:05]  I thought that I had everything under control and that and that even though this relationship had gone for five years without any kind of engagement or marriage or clear end goal, it was like a blindness.
[00:18:20]  I was just, you know, I'm different.
[00:18:22]  I'm special.
[00:18:22]  And if things are going to work out, I'm so sorry.
[00:18:25]  I guess that's the only way I can describe it because I can't.
[00:18:27]  I'm sorry for being confused and I'm saying that I didn't know.
[00:18:30]  My understanding was that you were aiming towards marriage.
[00:18:33]  And now if you explain it, and this is not a criticism, I'm just trying to follow.
[00:18:38]  If I understand you earlier, I thought you said you were aiming towards marriage in the relationship.
[00:18:42]  And now it would seem that you were wasting time.
[00:18:47]  And I'm not sure which one it is or if it's something else.
[00:18:50]  I guess it's because it developed over time.
[00:18:52]  Maybe that's what I'm missing.
[00:18:55]  I just came out of the relationship with the Japanese woman and my principles were as at their weakest point.
[00:19:02]  If we put these on a spectrum, which I don't think they are, but if we were to put this on a spectrum, I would say I was the least serious when I began the relationship with her.
[00:19:09]  And I was just as happy to waste time and play around with no end goal for the first two years.
[00:19:14]  Sorry.
[00:19:15]  I'm even more confused now.
[00:19:17]  Sorry.
[00:19:18]  I'm sure I'm missing something obvious.
[00:19:20]  The Japanese single mom, I thought you broke up with her because she was frivolous and not serious.
[00:19:26]  And then you said, well, for the first year or two with British woman, I was frivolous and not serious.
[00:19:31]  And again, I'm sure I'm missing something obvious.
[00:19:33]  So if you could just be patient while I try and puzzle this out for myself, I'm a little confused.
[00:19:39]  No, yeah, it is.
[00:19:41]  It is you're right to be confused.
[00:19:44]  I'm not sure how to make sense of it myself now that I think about it.
[00:19:47]  I think, again, I think it's just to be measured on a spectrum.
[00:19:52]  The Japanese woman was just so chaotic, so immoral, so lust-based that dating the English woman was such an upgrade in just honesty and openness that I felt like that alone was already a massive step in the right direction.
[00:20:07]  It's like crazy and chaotic.
[00:20:08]  Even though she's unstable?
[00:20:10]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:20:12]  She was, yes.
[00:20:15]  Okay, in what way was she unstable?
[00:20:21]  She was married to a Japanese man and had this child and seemed to want to just be single so that she could have fun, despite the child's desire for them not to split up.
[00:20:38]  She would, well, I suppose sex on the first date kind of woman.
[00:20:49]  And she, from my understanding of her background, it was tough because we didn't have exact communication.
[00:20:58]  I was still trying to get good at learning Japanese and she didn't speak any English, so the communication was quite limited.
[00:21:05]  But from the sounds of it, she had a history with Yakuza.
[00:21:11]  And I believe her husband was involved with that crime and crime networks and whatnot.
[00:21:19]  Holy crap.
[00:21:19]  And you had friends.
[00:21:21]  And she had sex on the first date with a woman that you didn't share much of a language with, who was involved with organized crime.
[00:21:28]  I think it was the second.
[00:21:29]  That's not exactly the most.
[00:21:31]  I didn't learn about sexuality.
[00:21:31]  That's not exactly enough difference, but okay.
[00:21:34]  I mean, let's be accurate.
[00:21:36]  And when did you find out that she was involved with organized crime?
[00:21:41]  Involved is a word.
[00:21:48]  Again, it's all so fuzzy because the communication was not there and it's been years, but I don't think she was actually involved personally.
[00:21:55]  I think she just was a beautiful woman who was in those circles and was more or less.
[00:22:07]  I don't get the impression that she chose to be a criminal or anything like that.
[00:22:10]  I think that she was just someone that was predated on and voluntarily went with it.
[00:22:17]  Oh, that doesn't answer your question.
[00:22:19]  Your question has been when I suspect, if I remember right.
[00:22:24]  It was months into it.
[00:22:27]  It was some just random pieces of information when she was chatting with her friends and then some follow-up questions from me and her being deliberately mysterious about it past the language barrier.
[00:22:38]  I think she, yeah, she didn't want to reveal much.
[00:22:40]  There was no particular honesty or attempt to be honest.
[00:22:44]  Okay.
[00:22:45]  All right.
[00:22:45]  I think I understand.
[00:22:47]  I gathered a lot of information from her, from her expressions and her desire to clearly hide the matter and cast fog on it.
[00:22:55]  So that made it actually more real than anything she was particularly saying.
[00:23:02]  And everyone in town seemed to know her.
[00:23:07]  And there were always rumors about this and that.
[00:23:09]  And I think a lot of people were afraid of her.
[00:23:12]  But again, it was all just, it was completely lust-based.
[00:23:15]  And so there was very little information regarding actually who she was or what her background was.
[00:23:21]  I suppose, yeah, that could have been, there could have been men, there could have been the husband.
[00:23:25]  Again, I was the exception to every possible danger or rule that could bite anyone else in the butt, but not me.
[00:23:30]  Got it.
[00:23:31]  So then you move along to the British woman.
[00:23:35]  And the British woman, did she want anything more serious or was she just another party time fun travel girl?

=== Lust-Based Relationships (14:05) ===

[00:23:46]  Well, she definitely wanted to move and live in Japan and work there.
[00:23:49]  I suppose she was serious about her career.
[00:23:52]  And that's about it.
[00:23:54]  She didn't have any particularly serious goals about relationships or anything like that, but she did want to date and have me as a boyfriend.
[00:24:00]  And she definitely didn't want to break up at the end and wanted to just continue pouring in the ears.
[00:24:06]  Again, it's almost like comparing night and day when you compare her to the Japanese woman, but compared to good principles of marriage and philosophical morality, she fell and I fell way short as well of anything like a serious, proper relationship.
[00:24:23]  So I'm just speaking comparatively that there was something a bit more serious and possibly enduring with the opportunity to perhaps get marriage as I got more and more serious.
[00:24:32]  And eventually I became a Christian.
[00:24:33]  And I told her, I can't marry a Christian.
[00:24:37]  I can't marry you unless you're a Christian.
[00:24:38]  So I'd very much like you to become one.
[00:24:40]  So can we talk about, you know, the Christianity and the Bible and see if this is something that you'd like to commit to as well.
[00:24:47]  And so there were, I would say, a couple of months of me attempting to evangelize her and talk about these things.
[00:24:53]  And she was willing to talk, but didn't want to convert.
[00:24:56]  And ultimately, I told her that, like, I really do want to marry you and have a family with you, but the Bible instructs me to marry a Christian.
[00:25:07]  So as much as I want that, I'm not going to fold on that principle.
[00:25:13]  And that's where it broke up for us.
[00:25:17]  But yeah, towards the end, as you can tell, just if we're going on a spectrum, I got progressively more serious to the point of actually saying to her that I wanted to get married ASAP and have children.
[00:25:26]  And it didn't work.
[00:25:27]  Okay, because she didn't want to become a Christian.
[00:25:30]  She didn't want to become a Christian.
[00:25:33]  But she didn't want to break up with a choice, right?
[00:25:35]  Agnostic, I would say.
[00:25:38]  Okay.
[00:25:38]  Yes.
[00:25:39]  So she wanted to continue.
[00:25:41]  Now, was it a particular version or flavor of Christianity that you had, that you had objections to?
[00:25:50]  Yes.
[00:25:51]  No, I'm sorry.
[00:25:53]  I had objections to what was your question?
[00:25:54]  I guess if you say, well, I just want to be a Christian, maybe that's one thing.
[00:25:57]  But if you say, I want to be a Mormon or LDS or you want to be a fundamentalist Baptist, like there's lots of different flavors, of course, of Christianity.
[00:26:09]  Was it Christianity in any way, or was it your particular kind of Christianity that she had the issues with?
[00:26:17]  I suppose she had issues with defining her theological beliefs.
[00:26:22]  She wanted to be more new age and open-minded.
[00:26:25]  Whereas I was set as a fundamental Baptist, you know, a very strict Christian moralist and fundamentalist.
[00:26:38]  Sorry, she objected to not just the Christianity of any kind, but to your fundamentalist views.
[00:26:46]  Is that right?
[00:26:48]  I suppose she didn't really object to anything so long as I was content keeping it to myself and she was happy to be with me, like I said, going forward perpetually, even if I was a fundamental Baptist.
[00:27:01]  I don't think there was any particular issue there.
[00:27:04]  I stopped sleeping with her because, again, I shouldn't be having sex outside of marriage.
[00:27:08]  And I told her that we're not going to sleep together, even if we continue the relationship.
[00:27:13]  I even went as far as to tell her that we couldn't live together and that she needed to get her in place because it's inappropriate that we're in the same place tempting each other.
[00:27:20]  And so I needed to.
[00:27:23]  Oh, yes.
[00:27:23]  Yes.
[00:27:24]  I had to totally backtrack and essentially push her away and bring it back to the dating, you know, going out and meeting for dates and trying not to make it too tempting and stuff.
[00:27:32]  But she was actually playing along with it.
[00:27:34]  And I'm sure it was stressful for her, like, you know, the sudden change and the sudden zeal that I was showing.
[00:27:40]  But nonetheless, she played along and she seemed to want to continue doing that for the hope of remaining with me.
[00:27:49]  All right.
[00:27:50]  Yes.
[00:27:51]  Does that answer your question?
[00:27:51]  Sorry, I'm a detail that is certainly helpful, and I appreciate that.
[00:27:55]  Okay.
[00:27:57]  All right.
[00:27:57]  All righty, ready, ready.
[00:27:59]  Now, she then didn't want to continue the relationship or unwind it this way.
[00:28:05]  Oh, rather, she did, but you said no because she wasn't willing to convert to a strict version of Christianity.
[00:28:14]  Yes, and I ended up breaking up with her.
[00:28:16]  And did she want to get married, do you think?
[00:28:18]  And maybe one day, but I don't think it was a conversation that was even on her mind.
[00:28:27]  Sorry, I wasn't sure.
[00:28:28]  I didn't want to interrupt you there.
[00:28:31]  Yeah, no, I suppose I don't have a hard answer for that.
[00:28:34]  I don't think she wanted to particularly get married.
[00:28:36]  I don't think she had any such plan.
[00:28:38]  She wasn't very set on much.
[00:28:40]  Okay, so she just kind of wanted to drift along, which would have wasted even more time, right?
[00:28:47]  Okay, got it.
[00:28:48]  Absolutely.
[00:28:48]  And did you ever find out what happened to her?
[00:28:50]  Did she ever get married?
[00:28:52]  Or have you ever checked up?
[00:28:54]  No, I. That's fine.
[00:28:55]  That's just curious.
[00:28:56]  It's not like you should.
[00:28:57]  I'm just wondering.
[00:28:58]  See, she my former best friend from high school and university days recently, not recently, last year contacted me to tell me that our philosophy teacher had passed away and that his funeral would be in my hometown.
[00:29:16]  And so I had been to Japan and moved around Japan and come back to Australia in a different state from where I grew up in and had friendship with him.
[00:29:28]  Sorry, this is relevant.
[00:29:30]  And he contacted me and I had no way of really knowing how he contacted me.
[00:29:37]  So I was surprised that he managed to find my phone number.
[00:29:39]  And the way that he found it was by contacting her.
[00:29:47]  And at this point, I'd been married and gone from Japan and stuff like that.
[00:29:52]  But she apparently still, sorry, it wasn't my phone number.
[00:29:55]  It was my new email address.
[00:29:58]  And she provided him with my email address.
[00:30:01]  And that's the only thing I heard.
[00:30:04]  And my former best friend told me that she's doing well and that, you know, I should probably contact her.
[00:30:11]  She seemed like she wanted to maybe catch up or something like that.
[00:30:14]  So I suppose she's not angry at me.
[00:30:17]  She was happy to help him get in touch with me.
[00:30:22]  That's the most recent that I heard from her, or indirectly heard from her, heard about her.
[00:30:28]  I don't know if she's in any kind of long-term relationship.
[00:30:31]  I don't think she's married or anything like that.
[00:30:34]  But when I was engaged to my current wife, to my wife, it's the only one I've had.
[00:30:44]  I did see her around town in Japan briefly.
[00:30:48]  She was hanging out with a friend and she'd cut her hair very short, like a very boyish pixie cut or something.
[00:30:55]  So I don't know if that's any kind of psychological sign that she was not doing too well or something, but she certainly didn't look prettier than she was before with that with that haircut.
[00:31:07]  And she didn't seem in the brightest of moods, even though many months had passed.
[00:31:13]  But I assume that she wasn't close with her father.
[00:31:18]  No.
[00:31:20]  She's in contact with both of her parents and she talks to them and stays with them when she's in England.
[00:31:30]  When I visited her there, I would stay with them as well.
[00:31:34]  When we were just in her hometown, not traveling around, that is.
[00:31:38]  But she was always very angry with him and more or less disgusted by him and did not have any kind words to say about him throughout a whole relationship.
[00:31:53]  She would get very quickly frustrated by anything that he would say.
[00:31:56]  And what were her, and I know this sounds like a complete side quest.
[00:31:59]  I don't think it is.
[00:32:00]  But what were her complaints, roughly, about her father?
[00:32:04]  Oh, yeah, don't worry about the side quest.
[00:32:05]  I've seen you do this since I was 19 years old.
[00:32:08]  You gather the information and make a miracle conclusion.
[00:32:11]  So I'm happy to give as much information to your computer to crunch as possible.
[00:32:16]  What were the problems that she had with him?
[00:32:20]  He was very old-fashioned and had more of a conservative leaning outlook towards things.
[00:32:31]  Kind of no filter, the casual racism of the previous bygone generations and whatnot really frustrated her.
[00:32:40]  And he also, so I would say that's in the ideological camp.
[00:32:46]  As for the actual relationship, he was quite selfish by the sounds of it.
[00:32:56]  Her growing up, he would often prioritize himself over the family.
[00:33:00]  He would start fights where things didn't have to go that way.
[00:33:06]  So he also started to drink as he, because he was a lot older than the mother, he had some sort of like pains that would increase with his age and he would self-medicate with alcohol to get rid of those pains.
[00:33:22]  And his drunkenness would cause issues and arguments in the house constantly.
[00:33:29]  And he would sometimes get too drunk to function properly and people would have to rescue him from himself.
[00:33:37]  And so as a result, his reputation amongst his entire family was just kind of very low.
[00:33:43]  No one seemed to like him or respect him anymore.
[00:33:46]  And what did you think of him?
[00:33:49]  And yet there was no divorce.
[00:33:50]  Sorry, what did you think of him?
[00:33:51]  Yeah, what did you think of him?
[00:33:52]  Oh, sorry, I interrupted you there.
[00:33:54]  Yes, I thought he was polite enough.
[00:34:01]  I didn't think he was particularly aggressive or that he would.
[00:34:06]  I wasn't offended by anything that he said.
[00:34:08]  I didn't find his traditional manners any kind of grating socially or anything like that.
[00:34:14]  I think it was a very gynocentric household, mother, two daughters, and him.
[00:34:20]  And maybe they were just oversensitive to things that would go against the normal, the normie ethos.
[00:34:29]  And then that wasn't an issue.
[00:34:31]  His alcoholism really troubled me.
[00:34:34]  I found that very selfish and cruel for him to inflict that on his family.
[00:34:39]  And yeah, on several occasions, I would talk to her about it, the girlfriend, and try to help her have conversations with him to encourage him to clean up and that kind of stuff.
[00:34:57]  More or less in the vein of using the principles I'd learned from you, just being honest with him and direct with him and empathizing and listening and talking and asking questions and going with it down to wherever it goes.
[00:35:10]  And yeah, I would say he improved a little bit while I was in their lives.
[00:35:17]  So that was good to see.
[00:35:19]  I didn't have any particular respect for him, though.
[00:35:21]  He didn't seem to have any strength of character or virtue that particularly stood out.
[00:35:27]  And his alcoholism and selfishness was troubling for me.
[00:35:32]  I was just hoping that he would continue to go in a good direction.
[00:35:35]  And how bad was the alcoholism?
[00:35:38]  At its worst, I suppose before I arrived in England at all, it was to the point where he would get quite sick or he would do dangerous things.
[00:35:51]  I think there was one situation where he was drinking and driving, which was pretty bad.
[00:35:57]  But he would get frequent alcohol poisoning and whatnot and have to be.
[00:36:03]  I think he was taken to hospital a couple of times.
[00:36:06]  So very bad.
[00:36:07]  He tried to quit, but he would say it was purely self-medication.
[00:36:10]  Like he was drinking because it hurt so much and he would keep drinking because the pain was so bad.
[00:36:13]  He was completely justifying it as not a recreational thing, but as a pain management thing, because it's the only thing that helps.
[00:36:20]  And so because he had this get out of jail free card, he would just drink and drink and drink and claim victimhood and pain and whatnot.
[00:36:28]  Which, yeah, I suppose I'm not thinking he's lying about the pain, but the degree of self-medication.
[00:36:36]  I mean, I was there.
[00:36:36]  I was staying there for certain periods of time and he was a functioning adult.
[00:36:40]  He wasn't just like bedbound and screaming in pain.
[00:36:43]  It wasn't, he was just a normal guy with probably old man pains from the looks of it, though.
[00:36:49]  So, yeah, it got pretty bad.
[00:36:51]  And he tried to slow it down.
[00:36:54]  He was taking his family's concerns quite serious.
[00:36:56]  And yet, I saw in Lifetime him just deceiving, deceiving himself, trying to, in a very thinly veil, deceive other people that he's just going to have a small drink.
[00:37:09]  Or there was a Christmas time where I visited and he was pouring an exceptional amount of alcohol onto his Christmas pudding, which is something they do in England.
[00:37:21]  And, you know, they call on the, I can't remember what the alcohol was, but he would burn it off.
[00:37:27]  Yeah, it's like a brandy.
[00:37:28]  You could smell that there was half a bottle on that cake.
[00:37:32]  Yes, yes, yes.
[00:37:33]  And he would have, you know, he would go in for seconds and thirds and fourths and always really be quite liberal with the alcohol that he would pour on.
[00:37:38]  So he was eating cake for the alcohol.
[00:37:41]  It just seems so desperate is why I'm bringing up the story that he was just like, like digging in the dirt for a shred of alcohol.
[00:37:48]  That's the impression it gave me.
[00:37:49]  And it wasn't flattering in the slightest.

=== Biblical Morality and Depravity (16:03) ===

[00:37:51]  And so you knew that she was unprotected by a credible father, right?
[00:37:57]  So he wasn't sitting there saying, honey, I mean, time's passing.
[00:38:00]  What's going on with this guy?
[00:38:02]  And so on, right?
[00:38:04]  No.
[00:38:05]  And the mother, the same, she was also of a similar mindset to him.
[00:38:09]  She was kind of a feminist and mensuck, you know, using, I guess, the husband as the example.
[00:38:16]  And so I had no particular respect for her ideals, but she was also just quite hippie, maybe a bit wishy-washy and on no steadfastness on her principles and no protection for her or guidance for her to like get married quickly or make up her mind or anything.
[00:38:31]  Just, you know, live and enjoy yourself kind of in closing.
[00:38:34]  I mean, you had been listening to me for half a decade plus at this point, if I get the math roughly right.
[00:38:41]  And so you knew that as a woman who was unprotected, she was in a somewhat vulnerable state.
[00:38:50]  That she wasn't getting good feedback on how to make good decisions.
[00:38:55]  Nice.
[00:38:56]  No.
[00:38:56]  I mean, I suppose the best feedback she'd be getting is when we would put in our headphones and listen to you for hours.
[00:39:01]  So the reason I would do that as well is to try and, because she was younger than me and I was trying to guide her.
[00:39:08]  And the information was a lot of the stuff we were listening to.
[00:39:15]  I would even tailor some of the playlists that we would listen to on relationships, marriage, not wasting your youth, those kinds of things.
[00:39:24]  So she was well aware of those things and not just listening to you.
[00:39:26]  Would talk about them.
[00:39:28]  But I suppose it never really got to any kind of decision.
[00:39:31]  It was all just sort of like consumption of information and but nothing was done about it.
[00:39:37]  I suppose I was pushing, but there was no particular conclusion with it.
[00:39:41]  And I should have cut it off, but the relationship.
[00:39:45]  But for whatever reason, I didn't.
[00:39:47]  I just tipped it.
[00:39:48]  Tell me a bit about what happened with the Baptist stuff.
[00:39:55]  Where do I start that?
[00:39:58]  YouTube back in the day, I was listening to you, but I was also listening to other sort of right-wing, traditional creators, if you will.
[00:40:06]  And a lot of them were Christian.
[00:40:08]  And a lot of the arguments that, you know, fly-by arguments for Christianity were sort of making more and more sense as I considered them.
[00:40:15]  You know, the case for the reality of Christ and him being who he said he was was sort of dawning on me that, like, oh, I should probably take this seriously and look into some of the, you know, biblical principles, the proofs from the Bible, if there were such, you know, some of the apologetics or historicity of the claims.
[00:40:36]  And so, you know, I just did more and more research into it.
[00:40:41]  My thinking was this: if the Bible is the most influential and important book to ever be written in the story of humanity, and I haven't read it, then I'm not really serious about understanding humanity.
[00:40:54]  So I better read it, take it seriously, and give it a good go and a good study.
[00:40:58]  So I started to read the Bible and it had quite an impact on me.
[00:41:02]  I guess the biggest impact it had on me was that it seemed to have a intense, there was an intensity for its moral condemnation of depravity.
[00:41:18]  I know that's a word that needs, many words that need defining, but depravity, I mean like sexual depravity, aesthetic depravity that God took so seriously to the point of the death penalty in some cases that I was starting to question your principles and UPB and the philosophy I'd studied as being entirely insufficient to take these things, take these things seriously.
[00:41:48]  For context, it'd be kind of the stuff that maybe today Andrew Wilson would be talking about, like, you know, about how secular morality can't condemn this or that depraved behavior.
[00:42:00]  And I was back then taking those things quite seriously.
[00:42:05]  You know, if it's if certain behavior like necrophilia or whatever, or I guess I was even lumping in pedophilia, though I didn't consider the proper arguments at the time.
[00:42:17]  I was already being Owen Benjamin has addressed it, but where he says that libertarianism can't deal with pedophilia.
[00:42:30]  Yeah, and I was listening to Owen Benjamin at the time as well.
[00:42:32]  He was one of the people I was listening to.
[00:42:36]  And see it, anything a good catch.
[00:42:38]  I suppose those arguments were having a good sway on me because I had in my moral conscience that there was, seemingly, my moral conscience, that there was something seriously wrong about some of these things, necrophilia and whatnot.
[00:42:50]  And there needed to be a strong societal condemnation of it.
[00:42:53]  It didn't seem to come from any kind of philosophical angle based on consenting adults or anything like that.
[00:42:58]  So for that reason, there was sort of a moral crack in the armor that I was taking the biblical morality a lot more seriously.
[00:43:03]  And I'm sorry, I don't mean to protection of security to say, I mean, I'm happy if we do.
[00:43:08]  I'm fine if we do.
[00:43:11]  But UPB does rape, theft, assault, and murder, which is like most of the evils that we face.
[00:43:19]  I don't imagine it was, and I've certainly talked about the pedophilia thing, but necrophilia, which, you know, is an interesting question, and I appreciate you bringing it up.
[00:43:29]  Maybe I'll do a show on that.
[00:43:31]  But it's not a big issue in society.
[00:43:34]  And so there was something, and this is not any criticism.
[00:43:39]  Again, I'm just there was something that must have been missing because you kind of said, well, philosophy is great, but I don't have as yet an answer for necrophilia.
[00:43:48]  Because let's say that you had a question about necrophilia.
[00:43:51]  You could talk about it online.
[00:43:53]  You could post the question on the forums.
[00:43:55]  You could email me.
[00:43:57]  And maybe I'd have a good answer.
[00:43:58]  Maybe I wouldn't.
[00:43:59]  But it had to be something more than, well, sex with the dead is a big, pressing moral issue.
[00:44:05]  And there's no way that philosophy can answer it.
[00:44:07]  So I'm going full guard mode.
[00:44:10]  And I'm just trying to puzzle that out.
[00:44:13]  Yeah, I will say that I only brought up necrophilia as just like a flyby example of the kind of depravity I'm talking about that was creating a chink in the moral armor.
[00:44:22]  It was just purity in general, like, you know, the moral standard for a cultural purity in society overall.
[00:44:31]  Cultural purity is not a name, but I would say I would be able to give you a good definition for, and I'm sure there is one.
[00:44:39]  But what do you mean by cultural purity?
[00:44:42]  Like women not behaving borishly and pornography being banned societally or criminalized.
[00:44:56]  The push to have, you know, let's say false divorce.
[00:45:02]  You know, things that define a yes, yes, yes.
[00:45:08]  Or no divorce, like divorce outlawed.
[00:45:10]  Just the things that would create like a traditionalist, cultural, culturally Christianity.
[00:45:15]  That would be true.
[00:45:19]  But it rewinds because that's how society used to be, right?
[00:45:23]  There was fault divorce.
[00:45:25]  Pornography was very much underground.
[00:45:29]  And women, relative to today, women were much more pure.
[00:45:34]  And so that's the way, to some degree, it was in the past.
[00:45:39]  I mean, unless I've got that wrong.
[00:45:42]  Yeah, yeah.
[00:45:42]  And I was all for that.
[00:45:44]  You know, conservatism is conserving the past ways.
[00:45:47]  And I was all for going, let's go back to the past.
[00:45:50]  Let's be traditionalist.
[00:45:51]  And that's definitely, let's do a step back.
[00:45:54]  I'm all for stepping back in time and going towards traditional stuff, going backwards, so to speak, and not progressing.
[00:46:01]  That was my point.
[00:46:03]  What is, and I'm sure this was a big question because it's an obvious one and you're a very smart fellow.
[00:46:11]  So it's like rewinding the movie and wanting a different outcome because Christianity in the past was, of course, unable to prevent the development of modernity, right?
[00:46:23]  And so even if we could go back in, how would Christianity, like, how would it be different if we were to somehow rewind?
[00:46:34]  How would it not end up the same?
[00:46:35]  Isn't that kind of like rewinding a movie or going back to the beginning of a movie and hoping for a different outcome?
[00:46:41]  It wouldn't.
[00:46:41]  So it was a gold shift.
[00:46:43]  So in reading the Bible, I realized that the Bible was never offering a solution to fixing the world or improving necessarily the global morality.
[00:46:52]  The Bible's story covers past, present, and future, finishing with Revelation.
[00:46:56]  And in the book of Revelation, the world is worse than ever, and the Antichrist is ruling and sin has more or less taken over and the people of God are quite minimal.
[00:47:04]  So it's a situation where if this is sort of in the cards, it's more about rescuing yourself, saving as many people as you can along the way and focusing your eyes on the kingdom of heaven rather than the things of this world.
[00:47:15]  And so a fundamentalist perspective is more that you can control your own life.
[00:47:20]  You have some influence over your family and your community, but you're not going to fix the world.
[00:47:24]  That's already, um, that's already in the card.
[00:47:26]  The world is going to sell in a grand basket.
[00:47:28]  And so, sorry, it was a mindset goal shift.
[00:47:32]  Yeah.
[00:47:33]  Well, you can, you can, um, I guess, with integrity, express your ideals and promote your ideals and influence a small sphere around you, but the end goal of somehow changing or revolutionizing the world and fixing the world, um, that would always be impossible.
[00:47:48]  You only have a small sphere of influence relative to that.
[00:47:51]  So, there's no like creating an overall better society when the trajectory of a slow downward slide is already baked into the card, so to speak.
[00:48:00]  But you can affect you and your family and your friends.
[00:48:04]  And so, it's not pointless to speak out because you have a smaller sphere of influence relative to that meta-end state that's already baked in.
[00:48:14]  Sorry, you're so confused.
[00:48:16]  I'm so sorry.
[00:48:17]  Just help me out.
[00:48:18]  I'm just trying to follow.
[00:48:21]  And, okay, so you said, Well, I want to go back, you know, pornography, illegal and cultural purity, and we want to get back to at-fault divorce.
[00:48:34]  Well, that would require changing the laws.
[00:48:37]  And then you said, Ah, but you can't do anything big in society.
[00:48:40]  You can only do your own small circle.
[00:48:43]  So, by that, do you mean convincing people around you, say, to not use pornography, convincing people around you to not get divorced, rather than some rewind of the laws?
[00:48:52]  I just want to make sure I'm following your thinking.
[00:48:56]  Um, so the thinking would be this: um, there's no certainty that although it's an overall downward trend in society towards the end state of the book of Revelation, where the world is full of sin and the Christians are the very, very persecuted minority, that is an overall downward trend.
[00:49:13]  But if you consider it like a line on a graph, that's not necessarily going in a straight line there.
[00:49:17]  You might influence society for a period of time to have a mini golden age of, you know, like whatever, you know, divorce is cleaned up or culturally you've influenced women to behave more purely for a time.
[00:49:33]  Um, and so you could have small periods of positive influence, even on a national level.
[00:49:38]  Why not?
[00:49:38]  We don't know when the book of Revelation actually comes to fruition.
[00:49:42]  Um, that could be 50 years away, it could be 150 years away, it could be 1,500 years away.
[00:49:47]  So, in the meantime, you can fight or brief periods of relief for the overall purity or morality of a culture or your family or your friends, but it's not going to be any sort of like enduring revolution.
[00:50:04]  No, catastrophe is absolutely baked in.
[00:50:06]  You might have periods of relief and periods of, let's say, a godly leader or church is doing well, high conversion rates, but overall, it's going to end in the apocalypse.
[00:50:17]  So, there is no capacity to resist evil.
[00:50:19]  I guess if I were to analogize it, and obviously, correct me if I'm astray, it's sort of like aging.
[00:50:26]  Like, you're going to age and die, that's inevitable, but that doesn't mean you have to be, you know, fat, a fat, lazy slob, too.
[00:50:32]  Like, you can, you can exercise, which might reverse or slow down, not reverse necessarily, but slow down some of the effects of aging, but you're still going to die.
[00:50:41]  That's a fantastic analogy.
[00:50:43]  Yeah, I mean, I wish I preached that at the church.
[00:50:46]  That's a fantastic analogy.
[00:50:48]  Okay.
[00:50:49]  Okay, so why were you drawn to this apocalyptic eschatology, to this, this end times catastrophe?
[00:50:59]  Because, you know, there's supposed to be sort of some hope is for the salvation of the soul or something.
[00:51:04]  Because for society as a whole, you can't win.
[00:51:08]  You can maybe do a little bit here and there, but it's very unlikely in the current scenario that you will be able to do anything that is positive.
[00:51:17]  So what was drawing you to this mindset?
[00:51:25]  Now, listen, if there was the angels came to you, you had a revelation, there was like something truly spiritual and magical and wonderful, that would be one thing.
[00:51:33]  But I'm trying to follow what drew you to the mindset.
[00:51:38]  Because of course, I mean, as you know, there's no logical arguments for it.
[00:51:41]  But that doesn't mean it's not compelling, of course, right?
[00:51:43]  I mean, certainly religion is doing much better than philosophy in holding sway over the minds of mankind.
[00:51:49]  So I suppose, yeah, that's my question.
[00:51:52]  What was drawing you in that direction?
[00:51:55]  It wasn't hope.
[00:51:56]  It wasn't like, well, we'll solve social problems this way.
[00:51:58]  So what was it?
[00:52:00]  Well, I suppose there is a logical argument.
[00:52:04]  And obviously, it's not where I am now, but would it be okay?
[00:52:09]  I feel like it is relevant if I could quickly summarize the logical argument because it does refer to where the hopes came, hope, or lack thereof came from.
[00:52:17]  It does answer your question.
[00:52:18]  Okay.
[00:52:20]  So the logic is this.
[00:52:24]  I'm going to compare it to something like UPB, where you're arguing from first principles for the end goal of proving an objective morality.
[00:52:32]  Well, and sorry, just to address that.
[00:52:35]  So the purpose of UPB is there's no way out.
[00:52:39]  There's no escape clause.
[00:52:41]  Right.
[00:52:41]  Because of course, if you believe, as Andrew Wilson and of course, countless other people do, if you believe that God is the source of all morality, then you can escape morality by not believing in God, which is really the story of the modern world.
[00:52:55]  But with UPB, there is no escape.
[00:52:57]  I mean, the only way you can escape UPB is to reject logic completely, which very few people will do or do.
[00:53:06]  Right, right, right.
[00:53:07]  And I agree with that.
[00:53:08]  And that's what I love about UPB.
[00:53:12]  And maybe we can talk more about that later, but I feel like we'd go on a lot of side quests if we do.
[00:53:16]  But my point is that with biblical morality or anything in the Bible, let's say the truth about the end times, eschatology.
[00:53:26]  Sorry, fancy versus like end times, what's going to happen.
[00:53:32]  Study of what's happening.
[00:53:33]  Yeah.
[00:53:34]  You're not going to find like a syllogism or a self-defeating statement that results in an inevitable conclusion that leads to those kinds of principles being proven true.
[00:53:46]  You're never going to find it.
[00:53:48]  And the idea that it's like, oh, those things are just sort of faith-based is sort of baked in.
[00:53:52]  However, this is why I'm comparing it to UPB.

=== The Liar, Lunatic, or Lord (06:02) ===

[00:53:55]  There is a different angle to the conclusion of being a Christian.
[00:54:00]  And if you can prove that Jesus existed and is who he said he was, then if he vouches for the reliability of the scriptures, then you have to take everything that they say wholesale.
[00:54:17]  So the logical proof would not be directed at proving the biblical morality within the scriptures or the eschatology within the scriptures or anything within the scriptures.
[00:54:24]  All you have to prove is that Jesus is who he said he was.
[00:54:27]  And if you have valid historicity or any kind of logical proof, this is just hypothetical, any kind of logical proof that Jesus is the Lord, then, of course, he cannot lie.
[00:54:45]  What he vouches for can be dependent on 100%.
[00:54:49]  You don't have to take anything with a grain of salt.
[00:54:52]  The Bible is completely preserved and perfect.
[00:54:54]  So just trust it with all your heart because he vouched for it and he's God.
[00:54:58]  So it's kind of like it's a nifty trick, but I wouldn't say it's illogical because if you can prove that Jesus is God, then you have to just eat the whole Bible with it and whatever's in it.
[00:55:08]  It's morality, it's eschatology, all of it.
[00:55:10]  You know, the history, historical record of the kings and other empires, you just have to accept all of it as gospel truth if Jesus is who he said he was.
[00:55:20]  And so, well, hang on, sorry, is that the gist of the argument?
[00:55:26]  Um, yes, yeah.
[00:55:28]  So, in summary, if Jesus is who he said he was, then the Bible is true.
[00:55:32]  Jesus is who he said he was, therefore, the Bible is true.
[00:55:34]  And the Bible being true, that would make all the morality therein, all of the end times therein true.
[00:55:40]  So, my point in bringing up this argument was that I'm not looking at the end times and thinking, wow, that's so much nicer than actually thinking, I might change the world.
[00:55:48]  There was no sort of doomerism that was coming with it.
[00:55:50]  It was more just, well, I just have to accept it because I've accepted the crux of the issue that Jesus is God and he cannot lie.
[00:55:59]  And therefore, I just have to wholesale accept that this is how the world will end, whether I like it or not.
[00:56:05]  I mean, I have not heard the argument before, but it sounds very interesting.
[00:56:09]  And this probably just speaks to my staggering ignorance of theology.
[00:56:14]  So, I fully accept that criticism.
[00:56:17]  The first thought that jumps into my head is if you prove that Jesus is who he says he is, then you open up a doorway to more than Jesus, right?
[00:56:32]  So, let's take a silly example, right?
[00:56:35]  And I'm not saying this is the argument, but just to make it easier.
[00:56:39]  So, if you say, well, anyone who says he's God is God, then that proves Jesus, but then it also proves a bunch of other prophets or theologians or perhaps crazy people or religious figures or whatever, right?
[00:56:53]  And so, you'd have to have a methodology that proves Jesus is divine, but simultaneously does proves that everybody else who claims to be divine and for which there's historical evidence is not divine, if that makes sense.
[00:57:10]  Yes.
[00:57:11]  And I think C.S. Lewis was somewhat of an influence in my thinking here because I think it was C.S. Lewis.
[00:57:16]  He presented the option list.
[00:57:19]  I don't know what you would call it, but he said this is something that any serious thinker would have to contend with: that Jesus Christ did exist.
[00:57:27]  And there's many historical records, both from his friends and his enemies, that he did say the things that he said.
[00:57:33]  And even his enemies will testify that he was crucified for claiming that he was divine.
[00:57:39]  So we know he was there.
[00:57:40]  We know he said those things, but now you have to choose.
[00:57:43]  No, hang on.
[00:57:43]  Hang on.
[00:57:45]  Is he a liar?
[00:57:46]  He had a proof.
[00:57:49]  And a proof is not a choice.
[00:57:51]  Yes.
[00:57:54]  Maybe you're right.
[00:57:55]  Maybe you're right.
[00:57:55]  Can I present the choice and tell me what you think if that's the same thing?
[00:58:00]  I think the choice is either you think that Jesus was crazy or you accept that he was divine.
[00:58:08]  Yes, so it would be, is he liar, lunatic, or lord?
[00:58:10]  That was the way that it was phrased.
[00:58:12]  And if you can rule out liar and lunatic, then by process of elimination, you would have to go with Lord.
[00:58:20]  And so you would also have to prove that everyone else for whom there is historical evidence and everyone else who claimed to be a Lord is wrong.
[00:58:34]  Right.
[00:58:34]  So it's not just enough to, like, if we can say, well, Jesus was either crazy, what, lunatic, a Lord, or a liar, right?
[00:58:44]  Okay, but let's say that you say, no, no, no, he's not a liar for whatever reason.
[00:58:49]  He's not a lunatic.
[00:58:50]  Then that same standard would apply to everyone else, right?
[00:58:54]  Not just Jesus.
[00:58:55]  And I'm not sure what the answer to that is.
[00:58:56]  You're right.
[00:58:59]  Yes, you're correct.
[00:58:59]  And you would have to essentially study the claims of many people, which I tried to do.
[00:59:04]  I tried to look at all of the world religions to make sure I wasn't making a mistake.
[00:59:08]  In my university days, I studied a lot of philosophy of theology and Eastern philosophy, as well as reading their texts and whatnot.
[00:59:17]  And there were just such blatant contradictions and nonsense.
[00:59:23]  When Muhammad is marrying a six-year-old, I don't have to particularly think very hard as to whether he's a liar, lunatic, or lord, because liar and lunatic seems to just stand out as a very obvious thing.
[00:59:34]  And so I mean, but there's stuff in Christianity that we would consider fairly heinous by modern standards.
[00:59:42]  So, and again, I know we're not going to resolve the entire dispute in this conversation, but there certainly are because I'm not a Baptist anymore.
[00:59:55]  Okay.

=== Government Power Over Children (15:30) ===

[00:59:57]  All right.
[00:59:58]  Okay.
[00:59:59]  So was it a kind of certainty that was the most appealing to you, like a letting go?
[01:00:06]  And of course, with religion, which you don't get with UPB, with religion, you get community.
[01:00:12]  You don't get community.
[01:00:13]  It's just some, you know, some sterile syllogisms sitting on your bookshelf in your mind, but it's not hymns and praise and songs and right.
[01:00:21]  And so, and I don't mean that in any negative or mocking way.
[01:00:25]  It's actually quite important.
[01:00:28]  Yeah, absolutely.
[01:00:28]  Those things were lovely.
[01:00:30]  I would say there were side bonuses.
[01:00:32]  If the Bible commanded me to be a Hanamit loner, then I would have done that too.
[01:00:37]  I was truly committed to just live according to whatever it said to do.
[01:00:39]  I'll do it.
[01:00:40]  But those things, I was glad that God was saying have a community and a family and live life joyfully rather than be a loner that's depressed.
[01:00:49]  So that was a possibility of winning in the long run.
[01:00:56]  There's a possibility of winning in the long run, which there isn't with Christianity.
[01:01:02]  But anyway, so sorry, go ahead.
[01:01:04]  Yes.
[01:01:05]  Yeah, yeah, there's a possibility of winning in the earth.
[01:01:08]  In Christianity, it would be the victories in heaven.
[01:01:11]  And yeah, it's all very abstract.
[01:01:13]  I prefer the victory, the victory here.
[01:01:16]  Obviously, I am where I am now, and it's different.
[01:01:18]  But this was my thinking back then.
[01:01:20]  And yeah, I just recall that I was relieved.
[01:01:24]  I think relief is a good word that you used.
[01:01:26]  I was relieved about some things and I was relieved about having community, but I was also kind of relieved.
[01:01:32]  Interesting we got here because I'm trying to paint it like it was all just about truth.
[01:01:36]  But after the fact, I was relieved that I didn't have to spend the rest of my life fighting to save this world.
[01:01:43]  I thought that was an exalting and mentally like I studied philosophy in university.
[01:01:51]  I looked up to what you were doing and the goal of actually creating a stateless society, peaceful parenting, and promoting philosophy for the masses.
[01:02:01]  It's like, what a battle to wage when our ruling class is a bunch of pedophiles.
[01:02:06]  And you know what I mean?
[01:02:07]  It just seemed like what a taxing task it was.
[01:02:11]  Maybe I didn't have the worry some days, but I certainly felt that.
[01:02:16]  The only thing I would say is, you know, revealing the pedocracy, so to speak, is actually a huge relief in many ways.
[01:02:25]  Because if child abuse is at the foundation of political power, as I've always argued, but it's even more explicit than just within the family, that is fantastic.
[01:02:35]  That is fantastic news because that means that if we can protect children, then we really can change the world.
[01:02:42]  We really can change politics because child abuse, I always sort of made the case that child abuse in a general and abstract way was the root of state power.
[01:02:51]  But if literal ritualistic child abuse is at the root of political power, then that fully confirms the thesis.
[01:02:59]  And if we can fix parenting, then that is absolutely the way forward.
[01:03:03]  And what an incredible proof of the theory and way to go.
[01:03:08]  Yeah, massive proof of concept.
[01:03:10]  That's a great point.
[01:03:11]  I just finished listening to your French Revolutions part one and that, you know, history is childhood.
[01:03:19]  You're absolutely right.
[01:03:20]  It's like, I'm thinking that would remain within the sphere of the family, but another proof of concept from the outside is that the leaders are still predators for children.
[01:03:30]  Like, this is hard-baked into the mechanics of the system on a conceptual level.
[01:03:34]  Like, that is a massive proof of concept.
[01:03:37]  Sorry, you were going on, and I just wanted to point that out before I forgot.
[01:03:43]  Yeah, so my point is, I was relieved, like, on an emotional level.
[01:03:48]  I think I was following a desire for truce when I became a Christian.
[01:03:53]  At least, that's my narrative, and it might be completely wrong.
[01:03:58]  But nonetheless, I was relieved that I didn't have to fight on that level.
[01:04:03]  And yet, I fought for the eternal souls of people daily.
[01:04:07]  Like, you sometimes talk about if you're a Christian, then you would just constantly evangelize and it would be like a desperate thing for you.
[01:04:12]  That's what it was for me.
[01:04:13]  And I was looking for a church where that was where it was for everyone because that would be the logical conclusion.
[01:04:18]  If everyone's going to hell, then you need to save their souls.
[01:04:21]  And I would spend thousands of dollars going overseas to more fertile lands for where Christianity could spread a lot more easier than the arguments you get in the West and convert people and baptize.
[01:04:36]  And even at home, when we couldn't afford the trips, we'd do what we can, even in the unfertile soil and go door to door or in public, shopping malls.
[01:04:46]  We were at it constantly and we're refining each other's swords, so to speak, in the church, trying to improve our methods, role-playing.
[01:04:53]  It truly was what it should be.
[01:04:56]  Yeah, I mean, that's one of the things Christianity is that.
[01:04:59]  I mean, because I blessed or cursed with this taking stuff seriously, if I genuinely believed in it, I'd have to spend my life saving people's souls like I was pulling people from burning buildings.
[01:05:09]  And that would be kind of exhausting.
[01:05:12]  Yeah, and I spent all of my savings on it.
[01:05:15]  I spent all of my savings on it.
[01:05:16]  Sorry to interrupt.
[01:05:17]  I spent all of my time on it.
[01:05:18]  We would study the Bible.
[01:05:19]  We would go out.
[01:05:20]  We would soul win, as we called it, because it was a battle and we would try to win people's souls.
[01:05:26]  And that was my life.
[01:05:29]  And so how many years?
[01:05:34]  I suppose seriously for six.
[01:05:37]  And how much do you think?
[01:05:38]  Seven years?
[01:05:42]  I mean, a lot of opportunity costs.
[01:05:43]  I think the plane tickets, the hotels, that kind of stuff, that was in the thousands.
[01:05:48]  But sold my house in Japan, left my, I described my job and I was working my way up the company.
[01:05:55]  I owned a bar.
[01:05:55]  I sold it for Christ because I didn't want to deal with alcohol-drunken people and that sort of atmosphere.
[01:06:01]  You know, flirtatiousness and temptation and all that kind of crap.
[01:06:04]  Your girlfriend's father for being an alcoholic.
[01:06:06]  Well, God too.
[01:06:07]  And profiting from serving alcohol.
[01:06:09]  But I'm sure you're aware of all of that.
[01:06:10]  So go ahead.
[01:06:12]  Yeah.
[01:06:12]  Yeah.
[01:06:13]  And so I had a great life in Japan.
[01:06:15]  My income had finally not just stabilized, but become really good.
[01:06:18]  I purchased the bar.
[01:06:19]  So now I was a business owner and working on the side high up in the company.
[01:06:22]  I had options.
[01:06:22]  I had savings.
[01:06:25]  And I gave it all up because church and prioritized award.
[01:06:34]  Yeah.
[01:06:35]  Maybe I would put it at, I would put it at that.
[01:06:38]  Yes.
[01:06:38]  Yeah.
[01:06:38]  Yeah.
[01:06:39]  No, totally.
[01:06:40]  So the previous owner working at the bar, he was able to buy a house after less than a year of working just upfront cash.
[01:06:47]  So it would have been that kind of money if I'd can't.
[01:06:49]  And this is a great argument for Christianity in that that kind of dedication doesn't hit philosophy podcasts.
[01:06:59]  Right.
[01:06:59]  So, you wouldn't have said to yourself, Oh, UPB is so powerful and so good that I have to burn hundreds of thousands of dollars and travel the world promoting UPB.
[01:07:10]  I'm sure, and this is not a criticism, but I'm sure that never would have even crossed your mind.
[01:07:15]  You're probably right, but I don't know.
[01:07:19]  Right now, I don't want to say I'm all in, but like, I'm sorry, and I don't want to waste criticism.
[01:07:26]  I'm again just pointing it out.
[01:07:28]  But this is the one thing that religion has in that, you know, if you know Mormons, they go and do their year or two years overseas and so on.
[01:07:38]  Now, can you imagine if in my podcast I said, well, it's really important that the moment you turn 18, you spend two years in some foreign country promoting UPB and peaceful parenting, and you have to pay your own way, and you have to sleep on the floor, and you have to spend 12 to 14 hours a day promoting philosophy.
[01:07:59]  People would say, Are you insane?
[01:08:01]  What kind of crazy cult are you running here, bro?
[01:08:03]  Right?
[01:08:04]  And yet, and yet, and to great effect, I don't see this with any criticism because religious people are willing and do make sacrifices for their course and their belief.
[01:08:17]  Wow.
[01:08:17]  Belief that would never cross the minds.
[01:08:21]  I mean, you know, with imagine if, let's take a silly example, right?
[01:08:26]  So, imagine if Jesus came back and had a website, right?
[01:08:31]  And Christians could log in every morning and get direct communication with Jesus himself, right?
[01:08:38]  Or someone they believed had a direct connection to Jesus or somebody who's, you know, the Pope or something, right?
[01:08:45]  And then let's say that something happened to the Pope's website and it went from like pope.com to pope1.com.
[01:08:55]  And then people said, oh man, forget that.
[01:08:58]  I'm not, I mean, God, I'm not typing an extra one in.
[01:09:01]  That's a lot of work, man.
[01:09:04]  Or, you know, Jesus.com went to jesusbackup.com or something like that.
[01:09:11]  And would Christians wake up and say, well, Jesus is being persecuted again?
[01:09:17]  Jesus is being persecuted and his website has changed.
[01:09:22]  I mean, best of luck, Jesus.
[01:09:25]  But I'm not typing that in.
[01:09:26]  I'm not bookmarking that new thing.
[01:09:29]  And, you know, I say this, of course, because that was my story, right?
[01:09:33]  When I got deplatformed, I went one website over and people were like, oh, I appreciate that.
[01:09:40]  I followed you.
[01:09:41]  I have no doubt that you did.
[01:09:43]  But, you know, I would get 100,000 views on YouTube as a bare minimum and then 3,000 on BitChute.
[01:09:51]  So rather than go youtube.com, people had to go bitch.com or Rumble or, you know, whatever, right?
[01:09:58]  And again, 97% of people did go over.
[01:10:03]  And I don't say this with self-pity.
[01:10:06]  It's just facts, right?
[01:10:07]  It's hard to pity yourself for basic facts.
[01:10:10]  But if Jesus had to go to jesusbackup.com, it would actually spread the message because people were like, man, he's being persecuted just as he predicted.
[01:10:21]  Like I predicted I would be persecuted and I was persecuted.
[01:10:24]  Jesus is being predicted just as he put Jesus is being persecuted just as he predicted.
[01:10:29]  This is a fulfillment.
[01:10:30]  He's even more right.
[01:10:31]  JesusBackup.com, right?
[01:10:34]  And that's not what happened.
[01:10:37]  And so I just, you know, props to religion because they have solved the problem of dedication.
[01:10:44]  Now, they haven't solved the problem of saving the West or saving humanity or anything like that.
[01:10:50]  In fact, it was the church, the churches that demanded that the government take over education, which really was the beginning of the end.
[01:10:59]  And so it was the churches that united with the state to control the minds of the children, which was a purely satanic bargain, right?
[01:11:06]  Because the state was like, oh, hey, man.
[01:11:09]  Hey, hey, Protestants.
[01:11:10]  You got all these Catholics coming to the new world?
[01:11:12]  Hey, no problem, man.
[01:11:14]  I got you, bro.
[01:11:15]  I got you.
[01:11:16]  All you got to do is have me, the government, take over the education.
[01:11:20]  And then you can make sure that your ideas stay.
[01:11:26]  And those pesky Catholics, their presence is denied in the public square.
[01:11:34]  Just surrender your children to me, and I'll make sure that your Christian values are kept, your Protestant values are kept nice and tidy and safe.
[01:11:42]  You know, as the Italians and the some of the French and, you know, the Catholics came sort of pouring in to the new world.
[01:11:52]  And of course, Christians should have, I mean, it was the government that put Jesus to death, right?
[01:11:59]  And it was the government who said, it was Satan who said to Jesus, I will give you everything in the world.
[01:12:06]  Just bow down to me.
[01:12:08]  I will give you control over everything in the world.
[01:12:11]  Just bow down to me.
[01:12:12]  And Jesus said no.
[01:12:14]  And then Christians freaked out.
[01:12:15]  The Protestants freaked out because the Catholics were coming in America and other places, and they said, oh, we've got to get the government to – I mean, so they couldn't even resist the most obvious temptation, which is to use political power to control the minds of children.
[01:12:31]  And this is after two, you know, almost 2,000 years of 2,000 years of moral lessons that the government is not your friend and that anybody who offers you power is tempting you.
[01:12:45]  And I don't even think it was much of a debate in Christian circles.
[01:12:48]  They just all flocked to the government and gave the government power over the children.
[01:12:53]  And so they did not do a very good job.
[01:12:55]  Whereas, of course, if someone said to me, and of course, I'm not trying to compare morals, but if someone said to me, hey, Steph, you can control the curriculum.
[01:13:04]  And I'd be like, well, no, because you're going to use it against me over time.
[01:13:08]  And this is exactly what happened, right?
[01:13:10]  The government offered the church control over the minds of the children.
[01:13:13]  The church snapped at it forgetting in almost 2,000 years of Christian instruction.
[01:13:18]  And then the government almost immediately set about training the children to worship the state and to deny Jesus.
[01:13:26]  And that, of course, is what has played out over 150 years, which is not very long in the history of Christianity.
[01:13:32]  But that's the challenge, right?
[01:13:35]  That's the challenge, is that it's not philosophical and therefore it doesn't have resistance to these kinds of temptations, even though the whole thing is like that the devil will offer you something for nothing and will offer you power over others, but then he'll steal your soul.
[01:13:52]  And I don't see this in the church.
[01:13:53]  Like I've never seen this discussed in the church.
[01:13:55]  I've been to a lot of church services over the course of my life and really quite a lot over the last couple of years.
[01:14:01]  And not one person has said, you know, they've all said, well, they took God out of the schools, right?
[01:14:07]  They took the Ten Commandments out of the courtrooms and they took the Lord's Prayer.
[01:14:13]  When I was a kid, we did the Lord's Prayer in school.
[01:14:16]  And it's all gone.
[01:14:17]  It's like, well, yes, that's the whole point.
[01:14:19]  That's why you got offered all of that power because it was going to be taken away.
[01:14:24]  That's why the devil offers you stuff so he can take your soul.
[01:14:27]  And I've not seen, I mean, certainly the Christians are quite involved in the homeschooling movement for sort of clear reasons.
[01:14:35]  But I don't know.
[01:14:36]  And I've never heard Christians openly discussing how they fell for the temptation of the government giving them power over children, which is then used to strip Christianity from the West.
[01:14:47]  I've not.
[01:14:47]  And so even that most obvious of temptations, A, they fell for, and B, they have refused to address for 150 years.
[01:14:53]  That's kind of a big failure to me.
[01:14:56]  Anyway, so again, maybe a bit of a side quest, but sorry, if I interrupted, go ahead.
[01:15:01]  No, no, it's a good side quest.
[01:15:03]  Yeah, I would say that for a lot of Christians, that's also baked into the Bible.
[01:15:07]  They see in the end times the move of the Antichrist using a sort of form of false Christianity to unite politically the world into a sort of like single education, single political, single economic system that's, you know, a one-world government.
[01:15:21]  And so all those conspiracy theories are very difficult.
[01:15:23]  But because it's prophecy, you can't really consistently.

=== Corruption in the West (09:37) ===

[01:15:28]  Yes, yes, yes.
[01:15:29]  And so it's sort of a Duma outlook with regards to that.
[01:15:34]  But it actually strengthens people's faith because they see the state taking over, the one-world government system appearing, all of this stuff happening.
[01:15:41]  And they're going to be foretold.
[01:15:42]  Wow.
[01:15:43]  I guess I really didn't strongly.
[01:15:44]  They took the government to educate the children.
[01:15:46]  Anyway.
[01:15:47]  Yes, yes.
[01:15:48]  Yeah, it was preordained that I would be weak.
[01:15:50]  Or as a Christian mind said, you know, Christians, unfortunately, we're at our best when we're being persecuted.
[01:15:55]  So there's always a bit of masochism.
[01:15:58]  Yes, yes.
[01:15:59]  Okay, so sorry, we were also saying about good ground to cover.
[01:16:07]  So tell me a little bit about how you met your current wife and what the status is.
[01:16:12]  I met her at a church when it was the first church I went to when I was seeking after God.
[01:16:21]  And it was more of a liberal church, not very serious about taking the Bible to the letter.
[01:16:26]  Not fundamentalists.
[01:16:27]  Sorry, but where were you in your fundamentalist journey?
[01:16:32]  I had just converted when I met her.
[01:16:36]  Or maybe I had just before I converted, like a couple of weeks before I became a Christian, I met her as an acquaintance.
[01:16:43]  She was sort of working at the church and she was the translator.
[01:16:47]  We had a lot of foreigners as well as Japanese people.
[01:16:50]  So the message was translated in lifetime by her.
[01:16:52]  So she was doing a very good job translating live as she, you know, as you listen, you speak kind of stuff.
[01:17:00]  I found that very impressive.
[01:17:02]  And she was attractive.
[01:17:02]  So I thought I sort of had my eye on her.
[01:17:07]  But yeah, I converted, joined friendship groups, eventually got to know her a little bit better.
[01:17:14]  And we started dating.
[01:17:18]  There was a dramatic moment, I guess, during COVID.
[01:17:23]  I was 27.
[01:17:28]  And she was 30.
[01:17:30]  She's older than me.
[01:17:33]  So she doesn't look it, the Asian genes, I guess.
[01:17:39]  And she was single.
[01:17:42]  She wasn't doing well with relationships.
[01:17:44]  She wanted someone who was taking Christianity extremely seriously.
[01:17:48]  And there's not many Christians in Japan.
[01:17:51]  And there's not many, even among them, there's not many people that actually take it very seriously.
[01:17:55]  So slim pickings, she wasn't really willing to compromise or to lead.
[01:17:59]  She felt wrong in that as well.
[01:18:02]  So she was single.
[01:18:06]  And I guess there was a day when we're all hanging out during COVID lockdowns where for her, the dam burst.
[01:18:13]  And she was crying and talking to us about how it's, you know, life has been hard and being single and wanting to take Christ more seriously.
[01:18:25]  And she thinks she's wasting her time in Japan and she wants to go to go overseas and actually do something to live properly for Christ.
[01:18:32]  And she was just kind of sick of this state of age and wasting time.
[01:18:37]  And she was quite sad, but in a sort of desperate, I want to do more kind of way.
[01:18:43]  And I found something very attractive about that.
[01:18:45]  And I wanted to know more.
[01:18:48]  So I asked her out for a date the next day to get coffee and talk about it.
[01:18:52]  And I basically told her about how serious I was about these things and how, you know, these are the kind of standards I want to have for a woman.
[01:18:58]  And I want to get married and I want to have children and I want to live for God and take this seriously.
[01:19:03]  And if she would be interested in exploring, you know, following that, then, you know, we can continue going on dates and see where this goes.
[01:19:11]  And she was totally interested.
[01:19:12]  And we would date several times a week and essentially just talk Bible, read the Bible together, and immediately talk about values.
[01:19:25]  I still took all of your principles quite seriously.
[01:19:27]  I would ask about her childhood.
[01:19:28]  I would ask about her relationship with her parents, her sexual history, that kind of thing.
[01:19:34]  And I was very open and honest about mine.
[01:19:36]  And both of us were, you know, from a Christian perspective, living, you know, corrupt lives previously and trying to clean up now.
[01:19:43]  And, but I liked her honesty.
[01:19:46]  I liked her directness and her lack of self-justification, but also her honesty with not being just like super immediately forgiving with people that have harmed her, not getting along well with her parents, and being just honest about things.
[01:20:08]  And I think it just kept going uphill from there.
[01:20:14]  We took dating very seriously.
[01:20:15]  The conversations were always very serious, theological, philosophical, personal, and deep.
[01:20:22]  And we fell in love.
[01:20:23]  And within, I would say, five, six months, we got engaged.
[01:20:28]  And five, six months after that, we were married.
[01:20:31]  Very cool.
[01:20:32]  Very cool.
[01:20:33]  Okay.
[01:20:34]  Okay.
[01:20:35]  And just roughly, and again, don't talk about anything you're not comfortable, but what was her corruption prior?
[01:20:44]  I say corruption from a Christian perspective, just meaning that she wasn't a virgin and, you know, enjoyed worldly things, you know, the TV shows and the music and all that kind of stuff that wasn't necessarily like pure or whatever.
[01:21:04]  Nothing that serious, honestly, just biblical purity things.
[01:21:08]  Like, I'm not, I'm not, I wasn't going into it expecting to date like a virgin who has never looked at a man sort of thing.
[01:21:17]  I'm not saying, I'm not mocking that standard.
[01:21:19]  I'm saying that if I myself were raised in a Christian home with incredible purity standards and had kept myself pure, then maybe I would aim for a woman like that.
[01:21:30]  But I guess I was looking for someone that was more or less my equal.
[01:21:33]  I wasn't going to be a hypocrite and demand like absolute purity, nor was I wanting some, you know, whoreish woman that was just of the world.
[01:21:42]  I was looking for something that was more or less at my level.
[01:21:46]  And she was when we explored it.
[01:21:48]  That's all I met.
[01:21:50]  Yep.
[01:21:50]  I guess that answers your question.
[01:21:52]  All right.
[01:21:53]  And how long have you been married?
[01:21:57]  Now for six years.
[01:22:00]  Five years.
[01:22:00]  Five years.
[01:22:00]  Oh, so she's late 30s now.
[01:22:02]  Yes.
[01:22:04]  Yes.
[01:22:04]  And we've been trying very hard to have children, but it just hasn't been working.
[01:22:10]  And we've gone to doctors and we've done serious dieting changes, lifestyle changes.
[01:22:18]  We've taken it quite seriously, put time and money into it.
[01:22:22]  And we've wanted to have children from day one.
[01:22:25]  And intimately speaking, we're very close and there's no issue there.
[01:22:35]  We're together quite frequently.
[01:22:36]  And we've had both of our fertility checked.
[01:22:43]  I'm very good.
[01:22:45]  Everything was checked on my end.
[01:22:47]  The health mobility Apparently, quite a bit above average in terms of like amount and that kind of stuff.
[01:22:56]  With her, there doesn't seem to be any particular problems other than the obvious maybe of she seems to have some STEMI-confirmed.
[01:23:05]  It's always hard to confirm these things of what's it called when the uterus lining or the wall lining is sort of hardened.
[01:23:15]  It's on the tip of my tongue, but there's a condition, endometriosis, that she has that could be causing some complications.
[01:23:22]  And her, I think it's her fallopian tubes that are quite thin as well, which could cause maybe some issues there.
[01:23:31]  But overall, her check was decent and doesn't seem to be any major reason why it's not working for us.
[01:23:38]  But some good news for the first time since we were married, she was actually able to get pregnant a few months ago, maybe four or five months ago now.
[01:23:52]  Time's going so fast.
[01:23:54]  And it got to about eight weeks before it was a miscarriage.
[01:24:00]  It didn't work out, which is sad because we've been trying for so long, but it's actually exceptionally good news overall because it means she can get pregnant.
[01:24:08]  It means that there's hope here.
[01:24:09]  And we're trying and just doubling, tripling down our efforts to make sure that we keep going.
[01:24:15]  And, you know, fingers crossed, it happened this month.
[01:24:19]  As of today, it was supposed to have her period two days ago or yesterday or something like that.
[01:24:25]  And it hasn't come yet.
[01:24:26]  So, you know, it could be because we've been trying some new medication and it worked last time.
[01:24:34]  It seems to be what responded to last time when she was actually able to get pregnant.
[01:24:37]  And continuing with that medication, maybe it'll happen again.
[01:24:40]  So, yeah, that's the situation.
[01:24:43]  I mean, the numbers are interesting because fertility tends to be lower on average for Asian white couples compared to same-sex white or same-sex Asian couples.
[01:24:57]  And I'm not sure anybody really knows why, but that is a sort of a fact or factor.

=== Mixed Race Fertility Issues (03:59) ===

[01:25:06]  And of course, you would have white Asian kids, Washington kids.
[01:25:10]  What is it?
[01:25:10]  I mean, obviously, if you were in San Francisco or something or the west coast of California, that would be less of a concern.
[01:25:17]  But what is it like?
[01:25:18]  Are you in Japan?
[01:25:20]  Are you living in Japan?
[01:25:22]  Are you living in Australia now?
[01:25:24]  We moved to Australia to find a Zelda structure.
[01:25:27]  What is the status of whites and Asian mixed race offspring in Australia?
[01:25:35]  Because, I mean, I've mentioned this a million times on the show, but I sort of feel it's important to bring it up.
[01:25:40]  That mixed-race children do have identity issues sometimes and do have, you know, some of those sorts of challenges.
[01:25:48]  Is there a reasonable or decent community of white Asian people in Australia or where you are?
[01:25:54]  Yeah, everything's quite mixed here.
[01:25:56]  Australia is considered a very multicultural place.
[01:26:00]  I mean, Queensland estate, so that's less so.
[01:26:02]  I would say there's a higher concentration of just whiteness really in here, which is nice from a cultural perspective.
[01:26:09]  I was originally from Victoria, where it was extremely multicultural and more so with each passing minute.
[01:26:15]  I can't really stand that place anymore.
[01:26:16]  So Queensland is definitely, it's sort of like the, I don't know, the Florida of Australia.
[01:26:22]  So it's nice.
[01:26:23]  It's more conservative, more, yeah, it's better.
[01:26:28]  Yeah.
[01:26:28]  And however, I'm mixed race myself.
[01:26:33]  So I've grown up with that inability to sort of identify with any one place.
[01:26:37]  My mum is from Holland.
[01:26:38]  My dad is from Egypt.
[01:26:40]  And I was born in Australia.
[01:26:42]  I never really connected with Australian culture.
[01:26:45]  I can't speak Polish or Arabic, so I don't feel any belonging there.
[01:26:49]  I felt about as much belonging in Japan as I did in Australia, honestly.
[01:26:52]  There's no particular attachment to anywhere.
[01:26:54]  I'm just sort of sort of floating, which as a Christian was fantastic because the Bible teaches that we're just sojourners in this world and that our home, our true home is, we're nationals of a spiritual kingdom.
[01:27:08]  And so not to take care of our earthly nationality or kingdom or anything like that.
[01:27:13]  So that fit just fine with me as a Christian, less so now.
[01:27:17]  But we got married as Christians.
[01:27:18]  And so that wasn't even a concern or a topic of conversation for us at all.
[01:27:23]  If anything, it was a step to prove that we were in fact just taking the things of the Bible more seriously because she wasn't attached to her culture, nor was I attached to any other culture.
[01:27:33]  Now that is a bit of a concern, but we're already married now and we love each other very much.
[01:27:38]  So this is where we've landed.
[01:27:40]  But I'm already mixed.
[01:27:41]  She's pure Japanese.
[01:27:43]  We've talked about it and I've asked her many times, you know, from her perspective, does it bother her that I'm not Japanese?
[01:27:50]  Would she, like in an ideal world, prefer that?
[01:27:54]  It doesn't seem to bother her, but she is also the concern that, you know, maybe our children won't have any kind of sense of national belonging or something.
[01:28:04]  And we'll do our best to deal with that going forward.
[01:28:08]  But I suppose we're not in any kind of position to break up our marriage or to stop desiring to have children over there.
[01:28:14]  Oh, yeah, I'm not suggesting anything like that.
[01:28:16]  It's just something to be alert to as your children grow up.
[01:28:19]  That's all.
[01:28:20]  Yeah.
[01:28:21]  Yes, yes.
[01:28:22]  And I'm very alert to it because I went through it.
[01:28:24]  And I thought it was fine because I didn't really compare it to anything else growing up.
[01:28:28]  But yeah, it does.
[01:28:31]  I don't know what a genetic situation is.
[01:28:32]  I would say, but were you identifiably mixed race?
[01:28:37]  Or, you know, do you look Italian?
[01:28:39]  Or I'm not sure.
[01:28:41]  Because white and Asian does produce an interesting combo that is pretty identifiable.
[01:28:46]  I'm not sure if that was the case with you growing up.
[01:28:49]  Yeah, for me, I would say half of my peers have identified me as white.
[01:28:57]  The other half feel like there's something different because my skin tone is olive.

=== Genetic Situations and Parents (02:31) ===

[01:29:05]  And they would say, yeah, Italian, Jewish, French.
[01:29:10]  Like, what are you?
[01:29:10]  You know, that's, they're kind of confused, looking at me.
[01:29:13]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:29:13]  And they, they always get it wrong.
[01:29:15]  And I can actually guess, you know, the specific mix.
[01:29:18]  But some, yeah, I would say among that 50%, then you get the extreme end that are just like, oh, you're not Aussie.
[01:29:23]  Where are you from?
[01:29:24]  Because I have a strange sort of neutral accent and, you know, the skin tone.
[01:29:30]  And they just sort of put, they're very Australian.
[01:29:32]  They're very white, blonde, blue-eyed, and they just go like, oh, where are you from?
[01:29:35]  The assumption is I'm not from here.
[01:29:36]  So that has happened in my life.
[01:29:38]  So I'm not going to say I'm white.
[01:29:40]  But it's confusing.
[01:29:41]  Okay.
[01:29:42]  And I'm really sorry about the fertility issues.
[01:29:44]  That is very tough.
[01:29:45]  And it is for this, like, when the plumbing works, it works.
[01:29:48]  When it doesn't work, you know.
[01:29:51]  I've known a number of couples with fertility issues and I've not known any one of them.
[01:29:56]  Actually, no, I should say I knew one.
[01:29:58]  One guy took some medication for some illness that completely destroyed his sperm production.
[01:30:02]  So he couldn't get pregnant.
[01:30:04]  And they said, oh, you have no sperm.
[01:30:06]  And it's like, okay, well, so there's the answer, right?
[01:30:08]  But for most couples, it's everyone just goes, I don't know.
[01:30:13]  I don't know.
[01:30:14]  Try this.
[01:30:14]  Try that.
[01:30:14]  Try the other.
[01:30:15]  And it is very frustrating, of course, because there are no clear answers in the majority of these cases.
[01:30:21]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:30:22]  And thank you for your concern.
[01:30:24]  It is something we really want.
[01:30:26]  And it's disappointing each month when the period comes and we're just still waiting.
[01:30:29]  And my wife is desperate for children and she frequently mentions it, like, I just really want a kid.
[01:30:34]  And we want to be good parents.
[01:30:36]  We want to be peaceful parents.
[01:30:37]  We want to spend time with our kids.
[01:30:39]  And, you know, we're angling our lifestyle to just have as much time with our kids as possible, Preparing ourselves for just educating them.
[01:30:49]  Well, and she's 30.
[01:30:51]  We see all these people just like pumping out kids and throwing them to the 38.
[01:30:55]  39?
[01:30:56]  Seven.
[01:30:57]  Okay.
[01:30:57]  Yeah.
[01:30:58]  I mean, there's additional tension just like seeing the end of the runway, right?
[01:31:02]  Okay.
[01:31:02]  Well, obviously, fingers crossed.
[01:31:04]  I hope this is the month.
[01:31:06]  And I wish you the very best and, you know, big, big hugs to everyone involved.
[01:31:10]  It is one of the great mysteries of life as to, you know, some couples can share a coffee cup and get pregnant.
[01:31:16]  And, you know, people say, oh, it's stress.
[01:31:18]  It's like, no, no, people get pregnant in a war zone.
[01:31:21]  Right.
[01:31:21]  If women get pregnant and women get pregnant and they have cancer, like it's not just stress.
[01:31:27]  But anyway, okay.
[01:31:28]  Well, obviously I wish you the very best.
[01:31:30]  With that, okay.
[01:31:31]  So let's get to daddy.
[01:31:34]  What happened?

=== Understanding Young Parents (02:14) ===

[01:31:36]  Okay.
[01:31:36]  So growing up at home, he was the nice, calm, smiley, peaceful, pleasant, socially adept one.
[01:31:45]  And my mom was the crazy psycho-screamer, hitter, you know, progressively more alcoholic one.
[01:31:53]  And yeah, just in terms of that alone, I sort of preferred my dad's company, though he was sort of, you know, a bit weak and pathetic in terms of just having conviction, ambition, moral clarity.
[01:32:10]  He was a bit of a weasel.
[01:32:13]  And I looked up to my mom as at least she had strength and ambition and stood up for her beliefs and all the rest, despite the aggression and the fear that I had towards her.
[01:32:25]  So that was my relationship to my parents.
[01:32:28]  I somewhat understood that well from a very young age and that understanding and do it all the way to now.
[01:32:37]  My dad and my mom, they got divorced when I was in my teens.
[01:32:46]  She had a specific timeline, but it's just all so messy and the stories just always contradict from different people.
[01:32:52]  All the details are hard to remember.
[01:32:55]  But somewhere in my teens, they got divorced.
[01:32:58]  It was in my late teens before I finished high school.
[01:33:05]  But there was lots of breakups before then.
[01:33:08]  And they would just sort of split and get their own houses.
[01:33:11]  And I would live with my mom mostly, sometimes moving with my dad.
[01:33:16]  They were constantly fighting about little things, big things, finance things.
[01:33:20]  My mom was drinking more and more, which would just cause her to get angry over small things.
[01:33:25]  And they would fight and the fights would escalate and often result in them splitting up.
[01:33:28]  Then they'll get back together, split up, get back together.
[01:33:30]  We moved houses nine or ten times growing up.
[01:33:36]  Sometimes for financial reasons, sometimes because of splitting up timing.
[01:33:41]  And it was chaotic.
[01:33:44]  There was no peace.
[01:33:45]  I would like to just sort of lock myself in my room and play video games and watch anime.

=== Childhood Trauma Stories (05:04) ===

[01:33:50]  And that was sort of my hidey place.
[01:33:54]  And I like to read as well.
[01:33:56]  And I liked school because it sort of got me away from home.
[01:34:02]  And yeah, my dad, my relationship with my dad, a couple of stories come to mind that could maybe paint the picture.
[01:34:14]  Would you like me to get into them?
[01:34:16]  No, but before I forget, and I'm sorry to back for a sec, what happened with your lessening interest in religion with regards to your marriage?
[01:34:25]  Oh, okay.
[01:34:26]  Back to the present.
[01:34:29]  Well, I was always checking in with you and listening to your arguments.
[01:34:33]  I never stopped seeking truth.
[01:34:36]  If I was wrong about Christianity, I wanted to be to admit it and cut my losses and move on, you know.
[01:34:43]  And I heard you talk about other topics to do with deviancy, morality.
[01:34:48]  And, you know, I was sort of munching on them and keeping them in the back of my mind as asterisks and question marks.
[01:34:54]  So I'd say that sort of tealed the field a little bit.
[01:34:57]  I think what did it for me, though, was the issue of the treatment of children.
[01:35:01]  As I was taking the Bible just perfectly word for word and I wasn't allowed to pick and choose, I was seeing what the Bible had to say about raising children and spanking and physical discipline.
[01:35:11]  And there are the common lines that you sometimes bring up, but with a full reading of the Bible, there's dozens of lines that get into minor details and specific details about the physicality and the mentality of raising kids and family, the family dynamic.
[01:35:28]  And it is a, the Bible does teach physical discipline of children and all of those things with a full reading of the text.
[01:35:36]  And, you know, I wish I could have metaphor them away with, you know, the rod is instruction and those kinds of things.
[01:35:42]  And I took those arguments seriously.
[01:35:44]  But in a full context reading, I couldn't justify not seeing it as physical.
[01:35:54]  And that bothered me, like to the core of my conscience.
[01:35:58]  You know, with my childhood, it bothered me.
[01:36:01]  With your arguments for the moral case of it, it bothered me.
[01:36:05]  And I couldn't shake that.
[01:36:06]  And it became more and more serious.
[01:36:08]  Then reading the stories of how God, you know, wiped out certain peoples and whatnot, I tried to give the benefit of the doubt.
[01:36:16]  You know, you recently had a podcast where you're talking about the flood.
[01:36:21]  There are angles where I could give those things the benefit of the doubt, but there were certain other stories like God's treatment of the kingdom of the Amalekites and whatnot, where God specifically instructs the children of Israel to wipe out all of the children and the infants and leave nothing that breeds.
[01:36:37]  And I just took those stories and pondered them, meditated on them, and tried to make sense of any kind of morality, godly or otherwise, that would allow that.
[01:36:47]  And it ended with a contradiction.
[01:36:50]  And I saw a contradiction in the Bible.
[01:36:52]  And if there's a contradiction in the Bible, then Jesus was wrong.
[01:36:57]  And like, you know, like a house of card, there was his dominoes that just brought me back to nothing and then first principles.
[01:37:08]  If Jesus is wrong about anything, then he can't be divine by definition.
[01:37:12]  Exactly.
[01:37:13]  If there was even the minorist, most minor issue or contradiction, then it would all collapse.
[01:37:18]  It couldn't survive even the slightest criticism and correction.
[01:37:23]  So, yeah, and it didn't.
[01:37:25]  Because again, like I never gave up on truth.
[01:37:27]  And if that was wrong, if that was morally wrong, then everything is in the bin, then let's start.
[01:37:32]  Let's start again.
[01:37:34]  And I didn't have to start again.
[01:37:35]  I had a lot of foundation in philosophy and first principles.
[01:37:39]  And I could more or less pick up where I left off and go, okay, where did I go wrong?
[01:37:44]  Like, what was the chink in my armor that Christianity came in?
[01:37:47]  And I started analyzing those moral arguments that I brought up before.
[01:37:51]  I started analyzing, you know, just everything, maybe emotionally that led up to me wanting to make that decision at that time.
[01:37:59]  And, you know, I don't want to make the call too much about this, but it was more or less that I realized I'd made an error and I need to, in a choice between my loyalty to Jesus and my conscience, I chose my conscience.
[01:38:14]  I explored the rational arguments for these things that are super important to me.
[01:38:18]  And I chose that, like, if I'm going to have parents, I'm not going to hit my kids.
[01:38:21]  And that would be in disobedience to Christ.
[01:38:23]  So I can't call myself a fundamentalist Baptist anymore.
[01:38:26]  And I told my wife, we went through and talked deeply about it.
[01:38:30]  And she's always one for truth as well.
[01:38:33]  And I'm really grateful I married her because as even despite our story and she was devoted to Jesus and wanted to, you know, spend all of her money and time on it, she too just realized the truth of the matter and didn't want to hit her kids and saw the issue with the treatment of children in those stories and decided, yeah, let's let's start again and figure this out in a way that's actually peaceful towards children.
[01:38:54]  Okay.

=== Losing Respect for Dad (15:08) ===

[01:38:55]  So she's with me 100%.
[01:38:56]  And here we are.
[01:38:59]  Yes.
[01:39:00]  So I had some stories in mind that might help paint the picture of my relationship with him.
[01:39:05]  I don't know if these are in chronological order, but when I was in my late teens, I was still in high school.
[01:39:12]  I was in a relationship with a girl and I liked her and she was nice and good and there was nothing particularly wrong with her and the relationship was going well.
[01:39:21]  There was another friend who I also before I was before she was my girlfriend, there was another girl that was my friend that I had a crush on before my relationship started with my girlfriend at the time.
[01:39:35]  And there was an opportunity where I was hanging out with her where I realized I still had feelings for her.
[01:39:41]  And despite being in a relationship, I, yeah, I cheated on my girlfriend and I felt bad about it, but I hid it.
[01:39:50]  I wasn't honest about it.
[01:39:52]  And news came out, news spread, and my girlfriend automatically eventually found out about it and confronted me and I had no defense.
[01:40:00]  And, you know, I asked for mercy and a second chance and, you know, I'll do better and all that stuff.
[01:40:06]  But, you know, she wouldn't have any of it.
[01:40:08]  She dumped my ass.
[01:40:09]  And I was upset.
[01:40:12]  I was upset that I lost a girl that I really liked.
[01:40:14]  I was upset at my moral character and how it was so pathetic to do something so lame.
[01:40:18]  I thought I was a good boy and it sort of kind of crashed my self-image.
[01:40:22]  And it was hurting a lot.
[01:40:23]  And I was in a bit of a crisis.
[01:40:26]  And I wanted to talk to my parents about it.
[01:40:29]  I talked to my dad about it.
[01:40:30]  He took me for a drive and we went out shopping just to talk about it and spend time together.
[01:40:35]  And this is kind of when I lost all respect for my dad because his conversation to me about it was essentially justifying it and telling me I did nothing wrong and that it's not a big deal to cheat on someone and just follow your heart.
[01:40:49]  And society will tell you this is wrong, but society is just making up rules and there's no real like truth about these things and it's not that big a deal.
[01:41:00]  He was just underplaying it and justifying it and saying it's fine.
[01:41:03]  And my conscience was ripping me to shreds about it.
[01:41:05]  And there was a huge, I realized we're very fundamentally different as far as moral character goes.
[01:41:12]  And I basically changed the topic and I didn't even want consolation anymore because the consolation was the most uncomfortable thing.
[01:41:19]  So we just, I changed the topic and we talked about other stuff and shallow stuff because that was a big turning point in my relationship.
[01:41:26]  So how I saw my children notice at all that you were not responding to his feedback?
[01:41:32]  No, I don't think so.
[01:41:35]  I mean, I can't speak for what was in his head, but there was no particular confrontation or any moment that made me realize that he was like fighting for my continued discussion on the topic or that he was asking or feeling like, hey, what change?
[01:41:48]  Did something change?
[01:41:49]  I don't think so.
[01:41:50]  I don't think he was very interested in us.
[01:41:52]  He spent most of his time on his computer, kind of locked away.
[01:41:55]  He didn't spend a lot of time with us or show a particular amount of interest in me and my brother.
[01:42:01]  So I fought for my family more than anyone in my family.
[01:42:07]  Everyone was fighting the family, but I was fighting for the family.
[01:42:10]  I was the peacemaker.
[01:42:11]  I was trying to always solve the dispute, solve the fights, even between my parents.
[01:42:14]  I was the adjudicator.
[01:42:15]  I would try to get everyone in the same room and figure out what went on.
[01:42:19]  Everyone in the family, my brother, my dad, my mom, were always very thankful for that.
[01:42:24]  But they never saw an issue with making me the savior of the family, which I resent.
[01:42:29]  And I worked very hard every time my parents split up to the point where they would move houses.
[01:42:37]  I knew that divorce wasn't good and it wasn't good for us and it wasn't good for our finances and it wasn't good for them and marriage was good.
[01:42:43]  And I knew that me and my brother were not doing well without our dad in the house.
[01:42:48]  And without, you know, my mom looks happier, even though they would fight.
[01:42:51]  My mom looks happier when they were together.
[01:42:54]  And I wanted to fight for her happiness.
[01:42:57]  So I would meet with my dad and talk to him and try to, you know, beg him and plead and convince him and make the case for trying again and move back in.
[01:43:05]  And, you know, maybe you can apologize for this and ask for her to apologize for that.
[01:43:08]  And maybe you can get to the bottom of it.
[01:43:10]  And long story short, it usually worked.
[01:43:13]  And the reason that he would move back is because I fought for the family.
[01:43:16]  And he would thank me, things would be great for a while.
[01:43:19]  And then they would slowly degrade, usually some alcohol hero there or fights hero there, or he would do something sneaky and lie about something, you know, and she would catch him or she would be aggressive and he would get upset.
[01:43:31]  And it would devolve into another split up.
[01:43:34]  And this happened so many times I lost count, maybe three, four, five times, somewhere around there, just the split ups and the get-backs together to the point of moving houses.
[01:43:42]  The final time was the hardest.
[01:43:44]  There was talk of divorce and it was like, this is final and I'm never moving back.
[01:43:48]  And I still made the case.
[01:43:49]  I still fought for the family and I really wanted them to be together.
[01:43:53]  My mom was not doing well.
[01:43:55]  I was starting to get towards the end of my high school at this stage and I wanted to get into a good university.
[01:44:01]  And this was, I didn't really study at school, but I got through school well just by paying attention in class.
[01:44:08]  I didn't study at home, I should say, but I did study at school.
[01:44:11]  I didn't really do my homework because I didn't have to.
[01:44:13]  I didn't have to study for exams or anything like that.
[01:44:15]  But I liked school.
[01:44:16]  I liked focusing at school.
[01:44:17]  And if I could focus at school, I would do well in school.
[01:44:19]  And I realized I wasn't able to focus at school when my parents were at each other's throats and all this fighting and talk of divorce was happening.
[01:44:26]  I really hated it.
[01:44:27]  And even just for my sake, I wanted to bring it back.
[01:44:29]  And I told my dad, like, just, you know, for me, let me finish high school with you guys together and then, you know, see if you want to divorce after that.
[01:44:36]  And so he agreed to try one last time and get back.
[01:44:40]  And I really, really fought for this one.
[01:44:42]  And they were doing so well, at least from my perspective.
[01:44:46]  Obviously, they weren't really doing well.
[01:44:47]  But from my perspective, this time it was going better than ever.
[01:44:50]  There was no more fights.
[01:44:51]  My mom was really like slowing down the drinking, except for this one day where it, you know, it didn't happen, foreboding, you know.
[01:45:00]  So I thought that communication had really evolved.
[01:45:04]  And maybe this time it would work.
[01:45:06]  And my hopes would be dashed because even though things were going well, communication was going well.
[01:45:12]  There was just this one day when my dad was sitting at the dinner table talking to her.
[01:45:16]  They were having chats, having laughs.
[01:45:18]  And the conversation became about relationships and their relationship.
[01:45:22]  And my dad, just completely out of the blue, decided to ask my mom, hey, is it okay if we invite another woman into our relationship?
[01:45:30]  And she slipped out.
[01:45:33]  And violence, screaming, and grabbing him by the hair and punching him in the face, punch, punch, punch.
[01:45:41]  And she ripped out a giant chunk of his hair.
[01:45:45]  And he just left.
[01:45:47]  He just got out of there and never came back.
[01:45:50]  At least to the relationship, I mean.
[01:45:52]  And that was it.
[01:45:55]  And this was in the my final exams were just around the corner.
[01:46:00]  So this is why the story is about my dad, fundamentally, because did you pull her off him?
[01:46:10]  Well, it was a delayed, it was a delayed response because I've heard this before and I've heard the fighting before.
[01:46:17]  And it was, it was a mixture of scary and I was angry at them.
[01:46:21]  And I didn't even want, I didn't have any interest in helping.
[01:46:25]  I could really hear the degree to which it got violent because often when my mom got angry and started screaming, the volume would drown out any sort of details.
[01:46:34]  But also, I was trying to drown out details by, you know, lifting up my music or putting my headphones in.
[01:46:40]  And also she would bang, you know, she would bang the table, throw, you know, she would throw cups and throw ashtrays and stuff.
[01:46:48]  Oh, they were both smokers too, by the way.
[01:46:51]  And so the banging and the noise and the yelling and the screaming, like, you know, death screeches, real death screeches, you know, the throaty high-pitched ones.
[01:47:00]  You can't really make out what's happening.
[01:47:02]  It's not like I knew that.
[01:47:02]  And you've never seen violence from your mother before?
[01:47:06]  Oh, no, she would get violent.
[01:47:07]  She would get violent with me.
[01:47:08]  Like, you know, there were times where she would hit me in the face and so on.
[01:47:11]  And there were times where she got violent with him.
[01:47:13]  I suppose she was more frequently violent with the children than with the husband.
[01:47:16]  But small cases, small cases of like, serious, yeah, maybe like slaps on the arm or just like things in frustration.
[01:47:25]  More just, oh no, there was one time she threw an ashtray at him.
[01:47:28]  That's probably the most violent she got with him, you know, object with an indirect distance between them, never like grabbing in the hair and punching in the face.
[01:47:36]  That was certainly the most serious thing anyone's ever seen or heard of.
[01:47:40]  So I assume this was a woman that your father was having an affair with?
[01:47:45]  No details.
[01:47:46]  He denies it.
[01:47:49]  Yeah, I suppose so.
[01:47:50]  That makes a lot of sense.
[01:47:51]  It fits.
[01:47:52]  It fits.
[01:47:52]  He denies it and denies it and denies it.
[01:47:55]  I don't know what to believe.
[01:47:56]  But yeah, it fits.
[01:47:57]  It fits.
[01:47:57]  You're right.
[01:47:59]  All right.
[01:48:00]  So they broke up.
[01:48:02]  And how often are parents violent with you or hit you or spanked you or something like that?
[01:48:08]  My dad never hit me.
[01:48:09]  The most physical he ever got with me was that when I was doing something that would embarrass him or behave in a way that was, he would deem that was not appropriate for the situation.
[01:48:19]  I felt like usually it was socially.
[01:48:21]  He would grab me by the arm or the leg under the table and do like a strong grip that would hurt.
[01:48:27]  And he would kind of give me the, you know, the death stare.
[01:48:29]  That's, that's pretty rare, but that's all I remember as far as physicality from him.
[01:48:33]  My mom was mostly a screamer and it would sometimes escalate to violence.
[01:48:38]  Okay.
[01:48:38]  And how often would the screaming and violence happen?
[01:48:43]  Or violence.
[01:48:44]  Violence.
[01:48:45]  Screaming was probably every second day at its worst.
[01:48:51]  And at its best, maybe once a week.
[01:48:56]  And the violence, yeah, at its, I was supposed when I was young, it was when the real like stanking sort of, you know, discipline thing was there.
[01:49:06]  And that was probably several times a week.
[01:49:10]  And with the teenage years, much less because there was no physical discipline.
[01:49:15]  It was just outbursts of anger where she would get so furious with me that she would flap me across the cheek or start just slamming me in the arm.
[01:49:26]  So you hit, you were hit like, what, 150 times, give a fake, screamed at maybe 3,000 times.
[01:49:35]  Yes, it was a lot.
[01:49:37]  And I remember one time, the only time she felt bad about hitting me, she didn't feel bad about it.
[01:49:43]  She tried to sort of, it was like after the fact justification mixed with sorry, a BNAP.
[01:49:50]  But it was when she hit me while I was doing the dishwasher wrong.
[01:49:54]  And it was a mixture because I didn't do the dishwasher immediately when she wanted me to do the dishwasher.
[01:49:59]  So I was reluctant to do it.
[01:50:00]  And then my attitude was bad.
[01:50:02]  And then I was doing the dishwasher slowly and doing it like packing it wrong or unpacking it wrong.
[01:50:05]  And she hit me in frustration.
[01:50:07]  And I just remember my blood rushing to my head.
[01:50:11]  And I felt weak, need.
[01:50:13]  And then the next thing I remember, I woke up laying on the sofa with blood on my head.
[01:50:19]  I'd fallen over and hit my head on the dishwasher or the counter or something like that, really bad fall.
[01:50:24]  So her hit resulted in me fainting.
[01:50:26]  And she was like, oh, I didn't hit your head.
[01:50:29]  It's not me.
[01:50:29]  I just ticked you over the, you know, wherever she hit me.
[01:50:31]  And then that happened.
[01:50:32]  So it's not really my fault.
[01:50:33]  I'm sorry.
[01:50:35]  It was kind of that situation.
[01:50:38]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[01:50:39]  No, she was told me because she thought she might have to take to the hospital and she'd be caught.
[01:50:44]  Right.
[01:50:46]  Oh, no, but I did go to hospital.
[01:50:48]  And, oh, but the story was managed.
[01:50:50]  So, yeah, it is a bit messy.
[01:50:53]  But we did go to hospital because we'd had to check out my fainting.
[01:50:56]  And why did I faint?
[01:50:57]  No, but it wasn't to check out the actual injury.
[01:50:59]  I mean, I think I fainted, but it was the emotional.
[01:51:01]  Check out the injury you received that day.
[01:51:04]  Yeah, I mean, I think it was briefly looked at, but the fundamental reason was, let's check out you fainted.
[01:51:09]  We should probably go to the doctor.
[01:51:10]  And I think the story was managed more or less before and on the way to be like, we're going to focus on the fainting.
[01:51:17]  That's the issue we're going.
[01:51:18]  But there's nothing.
[01:51:19]  It's not like we're going to the doctor because she hit me and the bruise or whatever.
[01:51:22]  That's right.
[01:51:23]  Yeah.
[01:51:24]  Yeah.
[01:51:24]  I suppose it was somewhat managed.
[01:51:27]  That day or a day or two after that you went to the hospital?
[01:51:30]  Oh, it was pretty immediately after.
[01:51:32]  As soon as I came to, then we were planning to go.
[01:51:35]  And we got in a car and we drove there to check.
[01:51:37]  So then she would have to apologize so that she wouldn't be angry and say to the doctor, I fell because my mother hit me.
[01:51:45]  Yeah, so damage control.
[01:51:46]  That fits.
[01:51:47]  Yeah.
[01:51:47]  Yeah, I would say so.
[01:51:49]  All right.
[01:51:50]  And then how did your relationship with your parents go as an adult?
[01:51:56]  Well, like I said, I listened to you and I had the talk with them as I mentioned at the start in my writing.
[01:52:02]  And I split with them.
[01:52:03]  When I was already in Japan, I called them and had several talks with them trying to convince them.
[01:52:08]  Funnily enough, I actually got my mother to listen to you and she agreed with your ideas and principles, but we never talked about the elephant in the room, which was like, okay, but you treated me bad as a child.
[01:52:17]  And so she condemned all the violence and that kind of stuff as sort of an externality, but never brought attention to it.
[01:52:24]  I don't understand that.
[01:52:25]  She condemned it.
[01:52:26]  Until I brought it up and then she was the violence of other parents in an abstract way to their children.
[01:52:31]  And that's a bad way to raise kids to yell and be violent and all that.
[01:52:35]  But she never apologized to me or wanted to talk to me about it in any kind of deep way.
[01:52:38]  Well, but didn't you point out?
[01:52:39]  I'm not saying you should have, but it would be to point out, well, if violence is bad, you were violent.
[01:52:46]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:52:47]  No, it was, it was extremely obvious.
[01:52:49]  It was blaringly obvious.
[01:52:50]  And I brought it up eventually.
[01:52:53]  I think one of the reasons why I wanted her to get into your work was because I wanted to approach the topic in a neutral way.
[01:52:58]  Whereas it's like, well, if you agree with this expert and if you agree with the data, then this is the conclusion that we'll come to reach.
[01:53:06]  And she did.
[01:53:08]  She did.
[01:53:09]  But it was never applied, more or less like me.
[01:53:12]  It was just sort of principles in the ether, but to be consumed, but not acted upon.
[01:53:17]  And until I brought it up with her, and then we had several talks about it.
[01:53:20]  Her apologies were not sufficient in my opinion.
[01:53:26]  There was no attempt to do anything about them.
[01:53:29]  And there was, yeah, there was some B-napping going on and some justifications after the fact.
[01:53:35]  And I did the best I could.
[01:53:36]  And it was funny because she knew better than to say these canned lines, having listened to you, but she said them anyway.
[01:53:43]  And I told her that it wasn't sufficient.
[01:53:47]  And I started with I'd like to take some space from this relationship.
[01:53:51]  And then eventually I upgraded it to look, I can't, I want to get married one day.
[01:53:55]  I want to have kids one day.
[01:53:56]  And I don't want you to be in my life and to bring my future wife and kids into that sort of dysfunctional sphere.

=== Resentment After Conversion (15:03) ===

[01:54:03]  So even if I have no more like personal resentment or hatred towards you, I don't think you're going to change.
[01:54:10]  And I don't think you're going to ever be a person I can trust.
[01:54:12]  So I don't want you around my future wife and kids.
[01:54:14]  So this is just future-proofing myself.
[01:54:16]  And, you know, to an extent, nothing personal, but I'd like to split this relationship.
[01:54:22]  And she was sad, but understood.
[01:54:24]  And I didn't contact her for several years until I became a Christian and then everything changed.
[01:54:29]  Right.
[01:54:29]  And it's just a way of finding out how important they are to you.
[01:54:33]  Right.
[01:54:34]  If you, if, if you, if you choose, yeah, if, if someone chooses self-justification and emotional defensiveness over, yeah, over actually caring about someone, then clearly you don't matter to her that much.
[01:54:51]  Yes, she didn't, she didn't fight for me.
[01:54:53]  And, and, um, nor did my dad.
[01:54:55]  I had a conversation with him as well, and nor did he.
[01:54:58]  So then what happened when you became a Christian?
[01:55:01]  Um, well, there, I wasn't an expert in like comparatively to, you know, after years of studying, but I knew enough about what the Bible said about honoring your parents and, you know, forgiving those.
[01:55:19]  So the principle was this, right?
[01:55:21]  Christ forgave the whole world and he forgave those who wronged him.
[01:55:27]  And the comparison that Christ makes for his disciples, I'm not saying this is universal to the whole Bible, but this is what was kind of on my mind at the time.
[01:55:34]  The comparison that Christ gives in the Bible is that even the heathen, even the Gentiles love those that love them back, but he wants a further level of that, but to love your enemy and to love those that persecute you and all that kind of stuff.
[01:55:50]  I was sort of applying that and mixing it with honoring parents and the principle of forgiveness and all that kind of mess just resulted in I better call my parents.
[01:55:59]  It wasn't the most elegant application of doctrine or consistent principles, but it was what it was.
[01:56:06]  And I thought it was the right thing to do.
[01:56:08]  And I thought that that was my loyalty to God, to call them and to try and give the relationship another chance, not to necessarily ignore all of the issues, but to continue to fight and fight for their souls, first of all, get them to become Christians.
[01:56:22]  And second of all, to fight for the relationship and never give up on it and fight to the bitter end and make sure that I have my parents in my life.
[01:56:30]  And that would be, you know, that would be what I would call honoring them for right or wrong.
[01:56:38]  And so I pursued that.
[01:56:39]  That was my next goal to first win them to Christ and to second to try to rebuild a functional relationship as much as possible.
[01:56:47]  And so I did.
[01:56:49]  I called my mom and he was in a position where she was atheist as far as that childhood went, my childhood went.
[01:56:57]  But she sort of grew up Catholic and she was considering like reinviting God into her life.
[01:57:02]  And she was sort of warming up to the idea of becoming a Christian as a result of her life sort of falling apart and her kids hate her and all that kind of stuff.
[01:57:10]  And she didn't want to be an atheist anymore.
[01:57:12]  And she didn't like you very much after that.
[01:57:14]  I suppose that's an obvious thing.
[01:57:15]  Stefan's the enemy.
[01:57:17]  Stefan took my kids from me, etc.
[01:57:22]  And so she was probably very happy to ditch philosophy and be a Christian and be honored again.
[01:57:31]  And so it was all very convenient.
[01:57:34]  I gave her the gospel and she accepted the gospel and decided to be a Christian and wanted to rebuild the relationship.
[01:57:44]  And part of being a Christian, I told her, was just like quitting the alcohol, quitting the cigarettes, living clean and being peaceful with everyone, including the father of your children, including your children, including the people you hate.
[01:57:59]  And she committed to double down to be a peaceful and sober woman.
[01:58:04]  And I mean, to her credit, she's a much more peaceful and functional person now than she ever was.
[01:58:12]  So this objective moral set of Christianity certainly is a massive improvement to the alternative of this.
[01:58:20]  Did she ever have her answer?
[01:58:21]  She ever apologized to me.
[01:58:24]  Oh, no, no, she doesn't like that.
[01:58:26]  She thinks that you're the villain because, you know, you, you.
[01:58:29]  No, I'm not kidding.
[01:58:30]  Like, I'm definitely.
[01:58:34]  I'm laughing not because of the joke.
[01:58:35]  I'm laughing because you're right.
[01:58:37]  And it just sort of stunned me for a second.
[01:58:39]  She does.
[01:58:40]  Hang on.
[01:58:40]  Hang on.
[01:58:41]  I'm sure she wishes that you had become a Christian.
[01:58:42]  She's ill of me.
[01:58:44]  She has to go and apologize to others for speaking ill of me.
[01:58:48]  Yes.
[01:58:49]  So no, you're right.
[01:58:50]  You're right.
[01:58:51]  I don't.
[01:58:52]  I mean, I don't get a lot.
[01:58:53]  I think I would remember an email from the church.
[01:58:54]  I'm sure she just cursed me and then became a Christian.
[01:58:57]  I have not received any.
[01:58:59]  After becoming a Christian, she sees you as more of an antichrist because you're an atheist breeding atheism and fighting against Christianity.
[01:59:07]  So then she, hang on, hang on.
[01:59:09]  She wasn't, because I came to you here and there.
[01:59:11]  Well, obviously, I'm not the Antichrist, right?
[01:59:13]  But then she still, then she has to love me even, or at least the same, right?
[01:59:18]  Because you have to love your enemies and you win them over through love.
[01:59:21]  So she would approach me with Christian love as a Christian.
[01:59:26]  Well, not exactly.
[01:59:27]  So the Bible teaches to love your enemies, but not to love the enemies of God.
[01:59:31]  So she would categorize you as an enemy of God, being an atheist to actually fight the word of God.
[01:59:35]  And so that would make you not her enemy, but God's enemy, which you are allowed to hate and fight in the Bible.
[01:59:42]  There are scriptures for that, but that's theology.
[01:59:45]  Yeah.
[01:59:45]  Okay, so sorry, go ahead.
[01:59:48]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:59:48]  So I would say because I'm sure there was a lot of personal beef that she had for you, which is very convenient.
[01:59:54]  But doctrinally speaking, as a Christian, she was very permitted to harbor you as an enemy because it wasn't that you were a personal enemy that ruined her life or anything like that.
[02:00:05]  It's because you were an atheist who was fighting for atheist doctrines.
[02:00:08]  And so that was fighting against Christ and his word.
[02:00:11]  So that makes you an enemy of God and someone to attack or consider an enemy.
[02:00:16]  So love your enemies to mean that if somebody is speaking out against God, you approach them with love, care, and concern and try to help them or save their souls.
[02:00:26]  Absolutely.
[02:00:27]  I think it's a, yeah, I mean, where's the line exactly?
[02:00:31]  But if there's someone who's, you know, it's kind of empirical year after year, not just taking their atheism as a personal belief, but actually promoting it as the world that become a negative force, you know, from this perspective, a negative force in the world for the promotion of anti-Christian ideas, then at a certain point, you have to draw the line and say, well, this is not a person that's a friend of God.
[02:00:52]  They're not going to become a friend of God.
[02:00:54]  You know, you can give them a chance or the benefit of the doubt, only to some extent.
[02:00:57]  But eventually you have to make a judgment.
[02:01:00]  And, you know, judgment and discernment is encouraged in the Bible as well to, you know, eventually draw the line.
[02:01:06]  Oh, so you should.
[02:01:08]  Hang on.
[02:01:08]  You know, so you should try to give her for a while.
[02:01:10]  So the Christian try for a while to help me see the error of my ways.
[02:01:16]  But after a certain amount of time, she give up.
[02:01:20]  Yes, yes.
[02:01:21]  And she didn't do that.
[02:01:21]  And she's wrong for not even considering the option of doing that.
[02:01:25]  Yeah, I think it should start with the benefit of the doubt.
[02:01:27]  And he does start with the, he is the initiator of the olive branch.
[02:01:33]  And she never attempted any sort of initiation of any olive branch towards you.
[02:01:36]  So yes, that would be to her shame as a Christian.
[02:01:39]  No Christians have, to my memory.
[02:01:41]  I have not had one.
[02:01:42]  Maybe one, one conversation.
[02:01:44]  But I mean, I wrote an entire book, very friendly towards Christianity and very positive towards Christianity.
[02:01:50]  Anyway, it doesn't really okay.
[02:01:52]  So what happened over the long run with your mother?
[02:01:59]  We re-established contact and there was lots of calls.
[02:02:02]  She eventually visited me in Japan.
[02:02:04]  At the time, I was still at the very end stages of my relationship with the English girl because I was still trying to convince her to be a Christian and whatnot.
[02:02:14]  But it was just at that timing that was a lap right there.
[02:02:17]  And she met her and liked her.
[02:02:20]  No particular analysis or questions or helping with direction or anything like that.
[02:02:24]  They never did.
[02:02:26]  And we went to church together a couple of times and got along reasonably well.
[02:02:32]  I found her frustrating a couple of times, but she apologized for people.
[02:02:36]  She was behaving in a much more socially pleasant way and was easier to get along with than I ever remembered, which was nice enough.
[02:02:43]  And yeah, we kept in touch.
[02:02:48]  It was just sort of pleasant conversations, but no real addressing of some of the horrible stuff.
[02:02:54]  Well, no, I shouldn't say that.
[02:02:56]  None.
[02:02:58]  She apologized for the divorce.
[02:03:00]  She regrets doing it and realized it was bad, realized that the way that there was a lot of lack of purity, a lot of lack of anything that was good in a Christian sense that was lacking from our family.
[02:03:15]  She was able to apologize for and regret, express regret over.
[02:03:22]  And she definitely stopped drinking, like purely stopped drinking.
[02:03:27]  She stopped smoking.
[02:03:28]  It took a little bit of time, but she eventually got over that hump and succeeded in that battle, which lowered tensions a lot because alcohol just makes everything amplified times a million.
[02:03:41]  But nonetheless, she was still extremely frustrating at times to talk to, to deal with.
[02:03:46]  She has a big ego, very short trigger.
[02:03:51]  She wakes up from a nap, she's very frustrated.
[02:03:53]  If she's hungry, she's very frustrated.
[02:03:55]  If she's tired, she's very frustrated.
[02:03:56]  And everyone knows it.
[02:03:58]  And so when I moved to Australia and I used my dad's house as kind of like a stepping stone and occasionally stayed with her too, there were tensions and arguments here and there.
[02:04:09]  And at this time, this is the first time my wife met her because we moved from Japan to Australia.
[02:04:16]  And when my mum visited me in Japan, I was not yet dating my wife.
[02:04:20]  So my wife's first impression of my mom was negative.
[02:04:27]  She didn't like her.
[02:04:28]  And at the time, that was a problem to me.
[02:04:30]  And I wanted everyone to get along and to have a strong family and build towards that goal.
[02:04:34]  So my wife was not against the idea of working and trying and being cordial with her.
[02:04:39]  But, you know, in honest, private conversations with my wife, my wife would express to me that it was hard and she wasn't easy to get along with and she didn't really like her.
[02:04:48]  And she was kind of scared of her.
[02:04:51]  And I've apologized to my wife many times since for exposing her to my parents and to my family situation.
[02:05:00]  Even though we're Christians and we both believed it was the right thing to do, you know, I've gone through life and I had better principles and I should have known better.
[02:05:06]  And yeah, my wife was right.
[02:05:10]  I was right not to like her and I'm glad she didn't like her.
[02:05:12]  And so she's apologize because I've taken us a bunch of side quests, but you know, two and a half hours.
[02:05:19]  I want to make sure we have time to get to your father and the heart attack.
[02:05:22]  So what's the relationship's the relationship been like with your father as an adult and what's happened with the heart attack?
[02:05:30]  Similar.
[02:05:32]  He is also a Christian and doesn't take it as seriously, but yeah, seriously enough.
[02:05:38]  Sorry, did he become Christian recently or was he a Christian prior?
[02:05:43]  He was an atheist as well and he became a Christian at the same time my mom did.
[02:05:46]  I evangelized both of them.
[02:05:49]  And he, yeah, he was always pleasant to be around, but he's okay.
[02:05:56]  So here's the story.
[02:05:57]  After the divorce with my, I'll make this quick.
[02:06:00]  After the divorce with my mum, he ended up in a long-term relationship with an Indian woman.
[02:06:07]  And my mum was bitter and jealous and would often show up at the house just to fight with him and just to fight with her.
[02:06:14]  It was very ugly.
[02:06:16]  And one of these fights at their door, apparently, my mom told, my mom saw her pretty daughter and warned the mother that my dad would leave her to sleep with the daughter.
[02:06:33]  And she got very angry and said, no, absolutely not.
[02:06:36]  And you're horrible to make such an accusation, slam door.
[02:06:39]  Fast forward, my dad leaves the Indian woman and starts dating the daughter, the same daughter that he basically raised for like six years.
[02:06:49]  Oh, God.
[02:06:51]  Five years or something like that.
[02:06:52]  Yeah, yeah.
[02:06:53]  So she's obviously, this was before he became a Christian.
[02:06:56]  This wasn't bullied up.
[02:06:58]  Pulled a full on Woody Allen.
[02:06:59]  So he actually, yeah, yeah, it was really gross.
[02:07:02]  And he ended up marrying her.
[02:07:04]  They moved back to Egypt.
[02:07:06]  He moved back to Egypt and took her with him.
[02:07:09]  And they got married in Egypt.
[02:07:10]  And then eventually they left Egypt, came back to Australia.
[02:07:14]  And they were living that sort of married life in Australia.
[02:07:17]  And he was friends with the girl's sister as well and brother.
[02:07:24]  And that was kind of his friendship group, that family, even though he used to date and be in a serious relationship with the mother.
[02:07:31]  And the mother was really creeped out and angry at him for it and tried to like save the daughter, but it was too late.
[02:07:36]  They were already married.
[02:07:38]  And then my dad became a Christian and realized, oh, those were a bunch of gross things that I did, huh?
[02:07:46]  And then tried to make her into a Christian and say, let's live purely.
[02:07:49]  But at that point, she was already sort of corrupted by his really worldly ways.
[02:07:53]  And she was kind of a party girl and was smoking weed and that kind of stuff.
[02:07:56]  And there was no bringing her anywhere.
[02:07:59]  She was quite an attractive girl and had lots of boy friends and liked to go out and clubbing and that kind of stuff.
[02:08:07]  So she chose that life and decided not to become a Christian, even though my dad was basically not straining since it's a divorce, but threatening that the relationship is going to end badly and that kind of stuff.
[02:08:18]  And yeah, she essentially, so he gave her an ultimatum.
[02:08:23]  She rejected.
[02:08:23]  And so that collapsed.
[02:08:25]  And they're no longer together.
[02:08:28]  So now he's a Christian living alone, technically still married to this girl, but she's out in the picture.
[02:08:33]  And she's still friends with the youngest sister, you know, the one he hasn't yet slept with.
[02:08:37]  And they're getting closer and closer friends.
[02:08:39]  And he's a Christian now.
[02:08:40]  So it should be different.
[02:08:41]  And he's insisting up and down that there's nothing there.
[02:08:44]  It's just platonic.
[02:08:45]  But they're having these night chats in their bedroom and stuff like that.
[02:08:47]  And inviting her over late at night and stuff.
[02:08:49]  And I was totally creeped out about it.
[02:08:51]  Basically, I gave her the gospel.
[02:08:53]  She became a Christian and wanted to take it seriously.
[02:08:57]  So I warned her, first thing, run from this guy.
[02:08:59]  You know, when he wasn't in the room, I basically just told her, honestly, like, get away.
[02:09:02]  This isn't appropriate.
[02:09:03]  She agreed.
[02:09:04]  She, I think, never saw him again.

=== Judging a Dangerous Man (02:02) ===

[02:09:06]  As far as I know, I hope never saw him again.
[02:09:09]  And my dad was kind of upset with me over that.
[02:09:13]  But is what it is.
[02:09:14]  He didn't like fight with me to the point of breaking up our relationship or anything like that.
[02:09:20]  And so my relationship with my dad was like, okay, so he's a Christian now.
[02:09:25]  And this really disappointed me that he didn't want to fix his purity and still was hanging out with this girl.
[02:09:32]  This is sort of more or less why I broke up with him recently.
[02:09:36]  I talked to him and told him, look, we talked about our childhood.
[02:09:39]  And yeah, I might have a still bit of resentment over that.
[02:09:41]  But beyond that, your moral character disgusts me.
[02:09:44]  And all the stuff you did before you were a Christian leading up to becoming a Christian.
[02:09:47]  And then still having that family in your life after you were a Christian, you seem gross and dangerous to me.
[02:09:54]  And I don't want you to be in my family's life.
[02:09:56]  And that's what I told him.
[02:09:57]  And then months passed and he had the heart attack.
[02:10:00]  And I felt like, did I really give him a chance?
[02:10:03]  Did I really talk with him as much as possible?
[02:10:05]  Or was I quick to cut him off?
[02:10:07]  And I started to waver and have doubts.
[02:10:10]  And I wanted to talk to people about it, my wife, the community, and you.
[02:10:14]  And here we are.
[02:10:16]  Okay, so he how is he to be judged according to Christian morals?
[02:10:24]  How did he be judged?
[02:10:27]  The things you did before, you should repent of and try to apologize, get forgiveness, and to whatever degree you can.
[02:10:36]  Yes.
[02:10:37]  But the idea of inviting this lady to your house and your bedroom and, you know, it's just talking and we're just friends.
[02:10:44]  It's like you're not fooling anyone.
[02:10:45]  You're not fooling God.
[02:10:47]  And you're inviting temptation, which itself is a sin.
[02:10:51]  Just not even acting on it, but just the invitation of the temptation that you're knowingly inviting temptation or the appearance of sin, even inviting the appearance of sin is itself a sin.
[02:11:02]  So like I told him these things and yeah, as a Christian, he was falling short.
[02:11:07]  Falling short?

=== Chest Pains and Hope (10:00) ===

[02:11:09]  Yeah, yeah.
[02:11:10]  It's a bit more than that, isn't it?
[02:11:11]  Yeah.
[02:11:12]  Yes, yes, it is.
[02:11:13]  It is.
[02:11:15]  Bad words.
[02:11:16]  It's not just falling short.
[02:11:17]  It's sin.
[02:11:18]  It's evil.
[02:11:19]  It's a moral crime against her, him, God.
[02:11:23]  And especially considering his history, this is inviting great, you know, adultery and ruining her life.
[02:11:29]  And like, you know, he supposedly expressed regret to ruining the 20s and youth and the moral direction of the, you know, the older sister who he married, and that he was responsible for turning her into this, you know, corrupt woman, which he feels horrible about, you know, supposedly.
[02:11:50]  But then here he is with the youngest sister.
[02:11:52]  And it was just, it was also fake and nonsense to me.
[02:11:55]  I didn't believe it.
[02:11:56]  And I was angry with him.
[02:11:57]  And that's why I told it to him.
[02:11:59]  Okay.
[02:12:00]  And how was his health or is his health overall?
[02:12:04]  He always smoked.
[02:12:06]  He didn't really drink, but he always smokes and he continued to smoke.
[02:12:09]  He changed cigarettes for the vape, thinking that that was a good health decision, whatever.
[02:12:14]  And he smokes a lot and he has a lot of sugar.
[02:12:19]  He never got really fat.
[02:12:21]  He always had like really good genetics in that sense.
[02:12:23]  He was good looking and slim and muscular.
[02:12:27]  All the way, even now in his 60s, he looks all right, just chubby.
[02:12:31]  So for him, he must be really chowing down the sugar for him to get chubby.
[02:12:35]  And he went to the doctor several times and they told him he's kind of pre-diabetic, not on the level of diabetes, but he really needs to diet.
[02:12:43]  And that was the context.
[02:12:45]  He had some chest pains on the way to the dentist and he called my older brother, who he's still in contact with.
[02:12:51]  My brother is still a fundamentalist.
[02:12:53]  And they still have a relationship.
[02:12:57]  And he was like, what do I do about these chest pains?
[02:13:00]  Should I do something specific?
[02:13:01]  My brother said to go into the dentist and make sure you tell everyone what's happening because there's medical professionals there and they can also fast track you or whatever to the hospital if necessary.
[02:13:10]  So he told them.
[02:13:12]  But yeah, worse came to worse.
[02:13:14]  He actually ended up having the heart attack.
[02:13:16]  He was out for 10 minutes and they were resuscitating him the entire time.
[02:13:20]  But his heart stopped for 10 minutes and he's still in ICU now in a coma.
[02:13:27]  Oh, well, when did this happen?
[02:13:32]  I wrote on Discord the messages I put there that you responded to.
[02:13:35]  It was that day when I wrote on Discord.
[02:13:36]  Okay, got it, got it.
[02:13:37]  I'm sorry about this.
[02:13:39]  Yeah, so this week.
[02:13:40]  Yeah.
[02:13:41]  I'm sorry about this.
[02:13:42]  A very big shock.
[02:13:44]  Yeah, yeah.
[02:13:45]  And I wanted to reach out for help so I make the right choices and understand my emotions.
[02:13:50]  It's funny to think that your wife is two days late, her period, and your father is potentially dying.
[02:14:00]  It's an interesting coincidence.
[02:14:02]  Yeah, yeah.
[02:14:05]  Well, I hope she's pregnant.
[02:14:07]  Well, and what's the prognosis at the moment?
[02:14:11]  I'm not sure.
[02:14:12]  I haven't received much information from my brother.
[02:14:14]  He told me he'd update me, have asked for updates just by message because I don't want to talk to him or anything like that if he wakes up.
[02:14:21]  But he said he's just he's in the ICU.
[02:14:26]  The doctors have told him that his heart would suck for this amount of time and that could cause real issues.
[02:14:32]  If he wakes up, there could be brain damage.
[02:14:34]  There could be organ damage.
[02:14:37]  And that's all we know.
[02:14:39]  I mean, 10 minutes is, I'm no doctor, but that's a long time to be out of oxygen, right?
[02:14:46]  Yes, but his heart was being artificially pumped.
[02:14:48]  Like he was resuscitated from the get-go kind of thing.
[02:14:51]  So there's something to say there.
[02:14:54]  It's not like he was heart attack and just left on the floor for 10 minutes.
[02:14:57]  That would obviously be...
[02:14:58]  Sorry, did he have a heart attack at the dentist?
[02:15:01]  Yes, at the dentist.
[02:15:02]  After he told people about his chest pains.
[02:15:04]  So it was a good timing to have a heart attack if you're going to have a heart attack is when you've told a bunch of more or less medically proficient people around you that you have chest pains.
[02:15:14]  Okay, so I'm sorry because I'm not a doctor, so step me through this.
[02:15:18]  So he has the heart attack at the dentist.
[02:15:21]  He falls over.
[02:15:22]  I don't know much about heart attacks.
[02:15:24]  Did his heart stop beating?
[02:15:26]  I guess, does anyone know?
[02:15:28]  Yeah, it was like apparently a very serious form of heart arrhythmia where, you know, it, I guess, just stops because, you know, there's apparently different types of heart attacks, but this was one of the more bad ones of like severe arrhythmia and then heart stopping.
[02:15:42]  Okay.
[02:15:42]  Yeah, it was stopped and then they were just giving CPR.
[02:15:46]  Okay, so if they're giving CPR, does that get oxygen to his brain?
[02:15:54]  Good question.
[02:15:55]  I assumed it's like a form of light artificial heart pumping to some extent.
[02:15:59]  Like otherwise, why would you do it?
[02:16:01]  I think it's necessary to have a rhythm.
[02:16:03]  I mean, you're pushing down.
[02:16:05]  Oh, I guess they're trying to push down on the chest cavity to simulate heart input and output or something like that.
[02:16:11]  Yeah, yeah.
[02:16:11]  It's like actual pumping so that it actually, one, keeps you going and two, sets a rhythm for your heart to sort of pick up on the momentum or something.
[02:16:21]  I have no idea, to be perfectly honest.
[02:16:24]  Okay, so I don't know.
[02:16:26]  Let me just see here.
[02:16:29]  Does CPR deliver oxygen to the brain?
[02:16:36]  Let's go to the new oracle at Delphi here.
[02:16:41]  CPR doesn't directly deliver oxygen to the brain.
[02:16:43]  It relies on chest compression to circulate blood that carries oxygen.
[02:16:47]  It helps deliver oxygenated blood to the brain by maintaining circulation, delivers blood.
[02:16:53]  So yes, helps deliver blood to the brain.
[02:16:57]  I don't have my reading glasses on.
[02:16:59]  Just a moment.
[02:17:02]  It's less efficient than a normal heart, but typically delivering only 20 to 30% of normal blood flow and oxygen levels.
[02:17:11]  Okay.
[02:17:13]  So chest compression mimics the heart's pumping action.
[02:17:17]  And permanent brain damage can start after four minutes without oxygen.
[02:17:21]  It buys time until advanced medical help arrives.
[02:17:26]  Okay.
[02:17:27]  So they did 10 minutes and then the ambulance showed up.
[02:17:30]  Is that right?
[02:17:31]  Yeah, I think that's exactly how it went down.
[02:17:35]  And my brother was just telling me about it while he was driving to the hospital.
[02:17:39]  So he was trying to hear about it secondhand as well because he just talked to my dad, you know, pre-heart attack and then got a call from the dentist because they had his medical information and next of kin to call, which is good.
[02:17:52]  And he heard about it and was informing me on his way to the hospital.
[02:17:56]  Okay.
[02:17:57]  All right.
[02:17:58]  So I'm just looking at CPR here.
[02:18:01]  What's the timeline of sequence?
[02:18:04]  Okay, three to ten minutes stress and four to six minutes permanent neuronal death.
[02:18:12]  Six to ten minutes severe and often irreversible damage becomes likely after nine minutes with widespread cell death.
[02:18:20]  But of course, if cardiac, if cardiac arrest persists beyond 10 minutes without CPR, full recovery is rare for sure.
[02:18:28]  Immediate CPR can extend this timeline by maintaining partial blood flow, potentially buying 10 to 20 minutes or more before irreversible damage sets in.
[02:18:35]  Okay, so then they would take him to the ambulance.
[02:18:40]  They would give him pure oxygen.
[02:18:42]  They would continue the heart compressions and do all their best they could to keep the I guess he's still breathing, right?
[02:18:48]  And then the breath brings the oxygen to the blood, and then the heart is supposed to pump it to the brain, but the chest compressions are doing that.
[02:18:56]  And so they are trying to simulate heartbeat, but it's not 20 to 30% as effective.
[02:19:03]  And of course, what do you know?
[02:19:05]  Or do you have any idea how long the ambulance ride was?
[02:19:11]  No, no.
[02:19:12]  And I'm not sure if the 10 minutes includes the ambulance ride or not.
[02:19:17]  I think the hospital wasn't too far.
[02:19:19]  So I think 10 minutes was the total amount of time that he was being resuscitated.
[02:19:24]  And they managed to get him to the hospital in a stable condition, the point where they didn't know if he was sleeping or in a coma, but his heart was weak, so he needed support systems.
[02:19:34]  So it's not like he's being completely, you know, zombie Frankenstein held up by the technology or anything like that.
[02:19:40]  There seems to be a joint effort between his body is somewhat stabilizing him and the machines at the hospital are doing the rest.
[02:19:48]  Yeah, yeah, once they get into the hospital, then they can do a whole bunch of stuff.
[02:19:52]  Okay.
[02:19:53]  So do you know if he was, if the coma is induced or if the coma is organic?
[02:20:00]  Actually, they don't even know.
[02:20:01]  Well, I guess now it is a coma, but at the time when my brother was telling me, they didn't even know if it was a coma or sleep, but they couldn't tell.
[02:20:09]  Either way, they didn't want to wake him up because the stability of sleep is apparently better or something.
[02:20:15]  So, but I suppose now it's been days, so it's a coma and it's not medically induced.
[02:20:21]  was there from day one okay and you don't have any i mean i know that they can't usually tell two too much I mean, I know in extreme circumstances, they can.
[02:20:29]  Like a friend of mine's mother died many years ago and she had a stroke.
[02:20:36]  And by the time they got her to the hospital, they did a scan and they said, man, she's gone.
[02:20:41]  So I guess that they've done a scan and there's enough activity that they, I hope, that they are considering, not just money grab, but I hope that they are considering it possible.
[02:20:51]  Yeah, there seems to be like warnings of brain damage and organ damage, but also, yeah, I guess there's hope.
[02:20:58]  They say, you know, if he wakes up, there might be.
[02:21:00]  So that assumes hope.
[02:21:01]  Right.
[02:21:02]  And of course, it being, well, if it's not medically induced, the coma, then they don't know if and when he might come out, right?

=== Predatory Behavior Toward Families (02:29) ===

[02:21:09]  Exactly.
[02:21:11]  All right.
[02:21:12]  Okay.
[02:21:13]  So what do you love about your father?
[02:21:18]  Love is a word.
[02:21:20]  I don't think I love him.
[02:21:22]  I think if I'm looking at it clearly, it's just an emotional attachment based on some fun times and fun memories and the pleasantness of his presence, mixed with some doubt over my principles because I'm a waverer, hence my message.
[02:21:38]  And maybe like a twang of conscience, like, should I love him?
[02:21:42]  Should I be fighting to talk to him in this last moment?
[02:21:47]  But no, I don't think I love him.
[02:21:50]  I really, I have no respect for him.
[02:21:52]  I find him disgusting and I loathe his moral character.
[02:21:56]  Okay, so there's a certain amount, not just of not love, but of contempt or disgust.
[02:22:03]  Yes, yes.
[02:22:04]  Like objectively, I think he'd be a dangerous addition to my life.
[02:22:08]  And subjectively, yeah, I've got some resentment and some disgust.
[02:22:13]  Okay.
[02:22:14]  And is your resentment and disgust supported by objective morals?
[02:22:20]  Yes, yes.
[02:22:21]  I believe that his behavior towards that second family was predatory, as well as the stories I told you about.
[02:22:28]  And his lack of honesty about it just compiles it.
[02:22:32]  But yeah, predatory perverted behavior.
[02:22:38]  Oh, I am so glad you called me.
[02:22:41]  I'm so glad you caught me.
[02:22:43]  And I'll tell you why.
[02:22:45]  Me too.
[02:22:46]  Listen, I appreciate this and I mean this with all love and sympathy, but holy crap, does that miss the mark?
[02:22:52]  That isn't even close.
[02:22:55]  You're talking about how he treated your mother.
[02:22:57]  You're talking about how he treated this second family, dating the mother, dating the daughter, this sort of stuff, right?
[02:23:03]  Yes.
[02:23:04]  Yeah.
[02:23:05]  That's the least.
[02:23:06]  That's way down on the list of crimes.
[02:23:10]  How he treated me.
[02:23:11]  Right.
[02:23:12]  And your brother.
[02:23:13]  And I've talked about this with my wife and I've talked about it with him.
[02:23:16]  And I have focused on myself, but for some reason in this conversation, it's taken a back burner.
[02:23:22]  I did mention about how I fought so hard for the relationship between him and my mother and keeping the family together.
[02:23:27]  And he betrayed me by asking such a stupid question of my mom.
[02:23:32]  And I felt like the way I was trying to present that story was.
[02:23:35]  That's not it either.
[02:23:36]  I'm sorry to be annoying.

=== Assaults on Children (07:53) ===

[02:23:38]  I really am.
[02:23:38]  And I know it's not funny.
[02:23:39]  No, no, but no, that's not it either.
[02:23:41]  I'm trying to be self-critical.
[02:23:43]  It's not that he said gross things to your mom, which he did.
[02:23:47]  It's not that he did a mother daughter, which he did.
[02:23:50]  I'm not talking about him justifying infidelity, which he did.
[02:23:54]  That's not it.
[02:23:56]  Or he left me with that violent woman and assumed I could take care of it on my own, which I couldn't.
[02:24:02]  And leaving me with her to face Godzilla.
[02:24:06]  Okay, but you were at the end of high school, right?
[02:24:09]  I mean, you were big and strong.
[02:24:10]  She wasn't going to do that to you as an adult, right?
[02:24:13]  Well, she grabbed him and punched him in the face as a big, big adult.
[02:24:16]  So my mom is hitting you.
[02:24:20]  The spanking stopped when, like the disciplinary spanking stopped at about 11 or 12.
[02:24:27]  And then in the teen years, there was violence in the form of just direct anger, like a stolt, just I'm angry and I'm going to slap you in the face or whatever.
[02:24:36]  Like that kind of anger was still there.
[02:24:38]  Not frequently because it wasn't a disciplinary system, but every few times a year, maybe, that kind of violence occurred, even to my late teens.
[02:24:50]  So violence being like emotional violence, but when was the last time she cracked you in the face or hit you?
[02:24:57]  Was it 12?
[02:24:58]  Yeah, no, physical violence.
[02:25:00]  She'd get drunk.
[02:25:01]  I could smell her breath.
[02:25:03]  I could hear her slurring in her red eyes.
[02:25:05]  And there would be some minor transgression or I would insult her because I'm disgusted by her.
[02:25:11]  And I would call her something, this or that in my anger.
[02:25:13]  And she would respond with just vicious violence, like a slap to the face.
[02:25:19]  A slap is an understatement.
[02:25:20]  It would probably be like five slaps to the face or something like that.
[02:25:23]  And I had this, you know, programmed moral response that you can't fight back or hit your mother.
[02:25:27]  So I would just, I would endure it.
[02:25:31]  Right.
[02:25:31]  But it wound down in your 12, 13?
[02:25:36]  Yeah, it became increasingly less frequent, but the degree of the violence, like the extent of the intensity was probably at its worst when I was in my late teens because her alcoholism was at its worst at that time.
[02:25:49]  And when she assaulted your father, how old were you?
[02:25:54]  17.
[02:25:56]  So, I mean, I'm not saying this is nothing, but you were going to college at what age?
[02:26:04]  17 is when I started university in late 17, almost 18.
[02:26:08]  And you didn't live at home to go to university?
[02:26:12]  Yeah, I left home and moved into the university.
[02:26:16]  We call it in Australia college.
[02:26:17]  College is not the university college.
[02:26:20]  How many was it between your father assaulting being assaulted by your mother and you moving to university?
[02:26:30]  Sorry, can you say the question again?
[02:26:32]  How many months between your mother assaulting your father and you moving out of the family home?
[02:26:38]  Six to eight months, somewhere around that ballpark because I was finishing my high school exams, enrolling into the university, you know, acceptance and then starting the university year.
[02:26:49]  So not quite a year, but somewhere around there.
[02:26:52]  Sorry, I heard six, eight months, and then something like a year.
[02:26:55]  I'm a little sorry if I missed something.
[02:26:58]  Yeah, definitely not one year.
[02:26:59]  Sorry.
[02:27:00]  Maybe six months.
[02:27:00]  Let's go with that.
[02:27:01]  So he left you behind when he got assaulted.
[02:27:06]  And you only had six months to go, which is not nothing, but it's not super long, right?
[02:27:13]  And yes, I agree.
[02:27:14]  And also, he left us behind many times when he left just, you know, not divorced, but leaving us and moving to somewhere else, some other town or whatever, and leaving us with her.
[02:27:24]  He did that several times.
[02:27:27]  And yeah, there was always violence and alcohol that I had to deal with alone there.
[02:27:31]  And I was the first time I split up with him, that was my reasoning.
[02:27:35]  I told him that how dare you leave us with this monster?
[02:27:39]  If you couldn't handle her, what makes you think we could?
[02:27:42]  If you're allowed to run, why don't we run?
[02:27:44]  And he said, oh, I thought you were so wise above your years and so mature.
[02:27:49]  And you were the one always making the family work.
[02:27:52]  So I thought you could handle it.
[02:27:53]  And I was a, you know, I told him I was a kid.
[02:27:55]  No, no, no, it's nothing.
[02:27:56]  It's just the only instance.
[02:27:59]  Not even countenance any of that nonsense about you could handle it.
[02:28:02]  And okay, so you said your father was a good-looking guy, right?
[02:28:06]  So he had his choice of women.
[02:28:09]  Okay.
[02:28:10]  So if he had his choice of women, why did he choose your mother?
[02:28:13]  Because she was good looking.
[02:28:15]  She was married at the time when they got together.
[02:28:17]  Oh.
[02:28:18]  Oh.
[02:28:19]  What?
[02:28:20]  Yeah.
[02:28:21]  No, she was, she was married to her high school sweetheart from Poland.
[02:28:24]  They moved together to Australia, and she was married to him.
[02:28:30]  And then this stud, you know, Arabic, handsome prince, Prince of Arabia, comes in and holding a large tome of a book under his arm like he's ever read a book in his life.
[02:28:43]  He hasn't.
[02:28:44]  It's all.
[02:28:46]  Okay, sorry.
[02:28:47]  I just need to express some advanced.
[02:28:51]  I need to express some annoyance here.
[02:28:52]  It's nothing, nothing bad.
[02:28:54]  Okay.
[02:28:55]  So this would have been a little fucking important to tell me when you said, I went to my father for advice about cheating.
[02:29:06]  What do you think he was going to say?
[02:29:07]  Cheating is totally immoral.
[02:29:09]  By the way, that's why you exist.
[02:29:12]  Yeah.
[02:29:12]  Yeah.
[02:29:12]  Sorry to laugh, but yeah, that's obviously.
[02:29:16]  Because I said, so he was cheating, and maybe he was, but he was certainly.
[02:29:19]  Okay.
[02:29:19]  Okay.
[02:29:20]  So your mom left.
[02:29:22]  A tidy whitey guy to be with Mr. Swarthy Arabic lunatic.
[02:29:28]  And he, so he was a homewrecker.
[02:29:33]  And she drank.
[02:29:36]  She screamed at her children several times a week.
[02:29:40]  She hit her children several times a week.
[02:29:42]  And he did nothing.
[02:29:44]  Not only did he do nothing, he created the entire situation.
[02:29:49]  You see, there is not one more parent that is better or worse than the other.
[02:29:55]  They are a team.
[02:29:57]  It's like saying, well, the getaway driver didn't rob the bank, man.
[02:30:02]  Well, yeah, but the bank doesn't get a getaway driver.
[02:30:07]  So he paid.
[02:30:10]  Did your mother work or did she stay home?
[02:30:13]  They both worked.
[02:30:14]  It was sort of on and off periodically, but yes, for the most part, she worked.
[02:30:19]  All right.
[02:30:20]  So he, sorry to talk about it in this blunt a fashion, but with all adults here.
[02:30:26]  So he had a fetish, hybristophilia.
[02:30:30]  He had a fetish for criminals.
[02:30:33]  So you think it's creepy that you say mother-daughter tag team?
[02:30:37]  No, what's, I mean, that is creepy, of course.
[02:30:39]  What is creepy is he probably got a hard on from watching his wife beat up his children.
[02:30:45]  Yeah.
[02:30:45]  Really?
[02:30:46]  A lot of people are sexually excited by violence.
[02:30:49]  A lot of people are sexually excited by humiliation.
[02:30:53]  And so he stayed with her.
[02:30:57]  He continued to have sex with her.
[02:31:00]  I guess maybe he paid some more portion of the bills or something like that, because men generally earn more.
[02:31:06]  But he continued to pay bills, have sex with a woman who was psychotically violent against his children.
[02:31:17]  Yeah.
[02:31:18]  And then when the violence hit him, he said, oh my God, this is unacceptable.
[02:31:25]  Yeah.
[02:31:26]  Yes.
[02:31:29]  I can't live with this kind of violence.

=== Sick of Vile People (03:37) ===

[02:31:32]  Good luck, kids.
[02:31:33]  It's vile beyond words.
[02:31:35]  Yeah, it was all kinds of outrage.
[02:31:37]  Yeah.
[02:31:37]  All kinds of outrage for himself, but he didn't jump in for us ever.
[02:31:42]  It was so weak and selfish.
[02:31:44]  Yeah, I mean, I feel myself just getting annoyed now.
[02:31:47]  This is about as a vile a person as there can be.
[02:31:51]  And it is the treatment that you experience directly that should be the most emotionally vivid to you, but it's the toughest to process.
[02:31:58]  Yeah, somehow I still feel like emotionally connected to him just because of some shallow pleasantness or some former maybe Christian remnant expectation or society expectation that I, you know, see him in his deathbed.
[02:32:10]  Like, why is that having any kind of emotional sway on me whatsoever?
[02:32:14]  Today, not so much.
[02:32:14]  When I messaged you a lot heavier, like at the moment of the news of his heart attack, talking with my wife and talking with the community has sort of helped me put things in perspective.
[02:32:23]  And I feel like I have no interest in talking to him as of today.
[02:32:28]  And I know you wanted to talk about this and maybe, maybe, I can't think what you're thinking, but Yuvi wanted to help me off the cliff, so to speak.
[02:32:36]  I don't need to feel this kind of sympathy or desire to reach out to him.
[02:32:42]  I'm just looking at it as a red flag.
[02:32:44]  I'm looking a bit ahead of this issue to my life as a whole.
[02:32:48]  Story to pivot, I will bring it back.
[02:32:49]  But I'm worried what this says about me.
[02:32:51]  And I'm sick and tired of being a wavering person.
[02:32:54]  And this is really the heart of the conversation and what I wanted to get to.
[02:32:57]  I'm sick and tired of wavering.
[02:32:58]  I was so sold out for Christ.
[02:33:01]  I was so sold out for you before that.
[02:33:03]  And here I am in my mid-30s, and I feel like I'm so behind.
[02:33:09]  And I've wasted time and money on things that I shouldn't have committed to.
[02:33:14]  Or maybe I should have.
[02:33:14]  Maybe that's where my narrative is wrong.
[02:33:16]  Maybe I had to get here through hook or crook, but I don't want to waver again.
[02:33:21]  I'm afraid of being weak and wavering.
[02:33:26]  And I don't want this emotion to ever win over me or this desire to start again, again, to have a win.
[02:33:35]  You know, let's move to Japan again.
[02:33:38]  Let's try a new country this time.
[02:33:39]  Like, why am I so unstable?
[02:33:42]  Well, I can tell you, I can tell you that.
[02:33:44]  You want to know how to have more certainty and weight in the world?
[02:33:48]  How?
[02:33:49]  Get angry.
[02:33:51]  You've been treated abominably, and I've been listening for three hours to try and figure out one shred of emotion.
[02:33:57]  You live like entirely in the very top most abstract platonic part of your brain, from what I can tell.
[02:34:04]  You've had no feeling, no emotion, no outrage, no anger, no sorrow, no nothing over three hours of talking about the most appalling stuff.
[02:34:15]  Yeah, you're right.
[02:34:16]  The is up with that.
[02:34:18]  I got more angry at a manipulative caller on Friday and today that you got about being this.
[02:34:23]  Is why I said earlier: do you remember me saying, So you got beaten 1,500 times and screamed at 3,000 times.
[02:34:31]  You remember me saying that?
[02:34:32]  Yeah, remember what I did?
[02:34:34]  I do.
[02:34:36]  Something like, yeah, yeah, that checker.
[02:34:38]  I think your math is correct.
[02:34:40]  Yeah, I was just doing.
[02:34:41]  I was just doing the math.
[02:34:42]  Yeah, you're right.
[02:34:44]  I mean, if you have a kid and you come home and the babysitter has beaten the hell out of your child, how would you feel?
[02:34:55]  Yeah, serious.
[02:34:56]  Absolutely serious.
[02:34:57]  Yeah, I mean, I would defend my child with zeal and vigor, like emotionally.
[02:35:02]  Okay, and let's say, let's say the babysitter had her boyfriend over and he did nothing.

=== Forcing Forgiveness (14:45) ===

[02:35:09]  Would you be like, oh, well, you know, he's not as bad.
[02:35:13]  No, yes.
[02:35:14]  What if you just watched it and smiled?
[02:35:17]  Your poor child being disgusting.
[02:35:19]  Yeah.
[02:35:22]  You're right.
[02:35:22]  And I thought I had this on the check.
[02:35:24]  I thought I did.
[02:35:25]  This is the past.
[02:35:26]  That's so funny, man.
[02:35:28]  I got to say, I'm sorry.
[02:35:29]  Sorry, I have to be a silly lawyer because, you know, we're mortal.
[02:35:32]  So I'll tell you what's funny: I'm pointing out your lack of feeling.
[02:35:37]  And what's the first two words that come out of your mouth?
[02:35:41]  Yeah.
[02:35:42]  I thought, yeah, I'm in my head.
[02:35:44]  Oh, I'm such a nervous thing, bro.
[02:35:49]  Now, listen, just so you understand, this is common to children of alcoholics.
[02:35:56]  You're not allowed to have feelings because alcoholics, for those who haven't been around alcoholics, they're both psychic and volatile.
[02:36:07]  If alcoholics, and this is true of most people who have addictions, they are psychic.
[02:36:15]  In other words, if you even look at them funny, they pick up on it and they're like, well, what do you mean by that?
[02:36:19]  Or what does that look for?
[02:36:20]  Like they're incredibly touchy and almost psychic.
[02:36:23]  So you can't even look at them with any scorn or contempt in your eyes when you're younger, especially if they're violent because they'll pick right up on it and they will fuck you up.
[02:36:35]  So you have to be a perfect blank wall of emptiness in order to survive.
[02:36:40]  Now, if this was not your experience, obviously tell me if it wasn't the case.
[02:36:45]  Yeah.
[02:36:45]  No, certainly true.
[02:36:47]  Alcoholics, they can see right through your skin, right into the deepest parts of your brain.
[02:36:54]  And you have to become an NPC.
[02:36:56]  You have to become bland, uncritical, non-existent, because alcoholics are so full of self-hatred that anybody who looks at them funny gets the full force of their reactive attacks.
[02:37:10]  So you have to blank out.
[02:37:13]  You have to cease to exist.
[02:37:15]  So then, of course, when Christianity comes along and says, well, you kind of have to do the opposite of everything you feel because feelings are kind of sinful.
[02:37:24]  You kind of have to do the opposite of what you feel.
[02:37:27]  Well, that plugs right into the mindset of the child of the addict or the alcoholic, if that makes sense.
[02:37:35]  Yes.
[02:37:35]  God says, do the opposite of what you feel.
[02:37:38]  Oh, man, I've been doing that my whole life.
[02:37:40]  Easy.
[02:37:42]  So the reason we can talk ourselves in and out of just about anything.
[02:37:47]  You know, it's great to be smart.
[02:37:48]  It's great to have an inner dialogue, but it can run you ragged.
[02:37:53]  It's kind of like if you've ever been lost in the woods, maybe the woods aren't too thick.
[02:37:56]  You've been lost in the woods and you're looking around, everything kind of looks like a path and kind of doesn't look like a path.
[02:38:03]  And it's the same thing when you have high intelligence, verbal reasoning, and inner dialogues.
[02:38:12]  You can talk yourself in and out of anything.
[02:38:16]  You can talk yourself into forgiving your father.
[02:38:18]  You can talk yourself into being angry with your father.
[02:38:20]  You can talk yourself into trying to be indifferent towards your father.
[02:38:23]  You can talk yourself into seeing him, into not seeing him.
[02:38:26]  And they're all compelling, right?
[02:38:29]  Analysis, paralysis, as they say, right?
[02:38:33]  So what's that?
[02:38:34]  Yeah.
[02:38:35]  Started off.
[02:38:36]  I don't know.
[02:38:37]  I just don't want to be wrong.
[02:38:38]  I don't want to make the wrong choice.
[02:38:39]  It's a detective.
[02:38:40]  Like, I don't want to be wrong.
[02:38:42]  So I analyze and then I proceed emotionally, like without emotion.
[02:38:46]  I guess on this.
[02:38:48]  No, no, hang on, bro.
[02:38:49]  But not wanting to be wrong is not wanting to be.
[02:38:53]  To exist is to be in error.
[02:38:57]  We can't be right about everything.
[02:38:59]  And we're actually not right about many things.
[02:39:01]  Listen, if I had my way, every single show I did would equal the story of your enslavement, like the big hit that I had, right?
[02:39:08]  Every song that Freddie Mercury jotted down would be in Rhapsody, right?
[02:39:13]  So life is mostly falling short of the mark, imperfections, errors, right?
[02:39:22]  So if you say, well, I don't want to be wrong, that really translates into, I don't want to be.
[02:39:28]  And the purpose of addiction in the family is to erase everyone involved.
[02:39:33]  The purpose of alcohol is to erase the alcoholic.
[02:39:37]  The purpose of violence is to erase the children.
[02:39:39]  The purpose of verbal abuse is to paralyze because you can't get anything right because you don't know whether what you do is going to be praised or condemned because there's no objective rules.
[02:39:50]  The absence of objective rules is to erase the being, the personality, the identity, the mind, if that makes sense.
[02:39:57]  To not be.
[02:39:59]  Because to be, to have a thought, to have a choice, to have a commitment, to have emotions, is to be attacked.
[02:40:07]  Existence is death.
[02:40:09]  Life is victimhood.
[02:40:13]  To draw breath is to draw punches.
[02:40:16]  To look soulfully at someone.
[02:40:19]  I mean, my mother was like this.
[02:40:22]  I mean, it's not particularly individualistic because all highly dysfunctional people are like this: they're constantly scanning the environment for signs of disrespect.
[02:40:33]  And if they see or experience any signs of disrespect, they attack without any fucking mercy at all.
[02:40:43]  The only mercy that your parents had was a fear of being caught.
[02:40:48]  So when you're around people like that, you cannot feel.
[02:40:53]  And you can't ever be right.
[02:40:56]  Because if your parents are in a bad mood and you come in and you're happy and you're certain and something great has occurred, what do they do?
[02:41:05]  And they shit on themselves and make sure I'm feeling shit all over it.
[02:41:10]  Yeah.
[02:41:11]  Even if you follow your parents' instructions to the letter, if they're in a bad mood, what happens?
[02:41:17]  Well, they shit on.
[02:41:18]  It doesn't matter.
[02:41:19]  Right?
[02:41:20]  My mom would tell me to do stuff.
[02:41:21]  I'd do it.
[02:41:22]  And she'd say, you did it wrong.
[02:41:23]  I'd say, but I thought, well, don't think, right?
[02:41:25]  It doesn't matter.
[02:41:26]  You can't win.
[02:41:27]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:41:28]  Don't think.
[02:41:30]  Yeah.
[02:41:31]  I would write down my mother's instructions.
[02:41:34]  And then when she'd shit on me, I'd show her the instructions.
[02:41:36]  What would she say?
[02:41:37]  I'm not sure what she should say.
[02:41:40]  That's incredible.
[02:41:41]  You wrote them down.
[02:41:42]  Of course, yeah.
[02:41:43]  Silly me.
[02:41:44]  Now, if I would ask her to write the instructions down, what would she say?
[02:41:49]  She would Feel insulted at the accusation that you're inferring something, or she would accuse you of needing such instruction.
[02:41:59]  You got it, right?
[02:41:59]  Yeah, you can't win.
[02:42:01]  You simply cannot win.
[02:42:04]  Right?
[02:42:04]  So, when you say, I'm afraid of making a mistake or of being wrong, that's not true.
[02:42:09]  You're afraid of being beaten up, screamed at, yelled at, humiliated, punched down, because that's how it was.
[02:42:16]  Damn, yeah, no, yeah, that's that's way clearer.
[02:42:21]  So, where's the emotion?
[02:42:23]  Yeah, yeah, can I make a connection right now that um just came into my head?
[02:42:28]  So, I mentioned before, like, and he pointed out, I thought, right, the first two words that I thought I had my emotions in check regarding this.
[02:42:34]  And in the past, I always would consume your content, understand your content, agree with your content, but fail to apply it to my own life properly.
[02:42:43]  And this would be an example of that.
[02:42:45]  Interestingly, with my wife and her bad relationship with her parents, I would tell her she needs to get in touch with her emotions, uh, acknowledge her anger, and that her anger is her defense of her future children.
[02:42:56]  And that if she doesn't have these, you know, emotional defense things, then she can't, you know, essentially protect against predators for her own kids in the future.
[02:43:06]  Like, these emotions need to be properly regulated and have a correct place in her life.
[02:43:11]  And so, here I am lecturing her about feeling anger appropriately in response to these things in a kind of abstract explanation way, you know, in a nerdy way.
[02:43:22]  And yet, you pointed it out in this conversation: where is it for me?
[02:43:26]  Have I also not even applied this to myself?
[02:43:29]  And unfortunately, my wife is not strong enough or clear enough to say, The fuck are you talking about, you hypocrite?
[02:43:36]  You're about as emotional as a soap dish.
[02:43:41]  All right, are you ready for the truth about your father?
[02:43:45]  Yes, please.
[02:43:46]  Well, your father has destroyed, by my count, at least three families.
[02:43:52]  Please list them off.
[02:43:54]  My family was me and my brother, the family of the woman and daughter that he had a relationship with, and the third one, I'm not sure, mate.
[02:44:05]  Well, your mother's first marriage.
[02:44:07]  I'm not sure about the third one, please.
[02:44:09]  Right, right.
[02:44:10]  Okay, that's the family.
[02:44:11]  Yeah, he has presided over the colossal and titanic physical, emotional, and verbal violence and abuse of his children.
[02:44:25]  And he's such a fucking coward that his kids at the age of three or four or five could totally take it.
[02:44:33]  But when he, as a grown-ass man, receives some violence, peace out, man, this is unacceptable.
[02:44:41]  Bye, good luck.
[02:44:43]  I'm off to go destroy another family.
[02:44:46]  He's such a weasily bitch.
[02:44:50]  Yuck.
[02:44:50]  Yeah, I don't know why I would even want to see him.
[02:44:53]  And why would I want to reward him?
[02:44:55]  That's the part I hate about.
[02:44:57]  And it's even, I wish it was directed at him, but I hate it about myself.
[02:45:01]  Like, why would I be so weak as to want to reward that with, oh, his loving child is back to, you know, wipe his teenage on his deathbed?
[02:45:08]  And well, the problem is, and again, I say this with great sympathy: the problem is that's his desire, not yours.
[02:45:20]  But because you're so used to conforming to evildoers, it's hard to know your feelings from your father's feelings.
[02:45:28]  Now, your father's fantasy is what at the end of his life.
[02:45:33]  I'm sure to have his children love him and be there with him.
[02:45:36]  Reconciliation, hurts, tears.
[02:45:40]  I love you.
[02:45:42]  Right?
[02:45:43]  That's the fantasy.
[02:45:44]  Yeah.
[02:45:45]  And because you're used to pleasing your father or dying, you have to inhabit the mind of your father as a survival mechanism.
[02:45:55]  You know, like let's take an example, right?
[02:45:57]  So it's a silly one, but what the hell, right?
[02:46:00]  So you're a baby zebra in Africa.
[02:46:04]  Is it important for you to empathize with predators?
[02:46:09]  Yes, to understand who they're going to hunt and not be in that line of thought.
[02:46:14]  So you have to empathize with predators in order to survive.
[02:46:19]  You have to inhabit the mind of the predator.
[02:46:24]  You have to see yourself.
[02:46:25]  Oh, wow.
[02:46:25]  Yeah.
[02:46:26]  That's why you're thinking of this deathbed bullshit because that's your father.
[02:46:29]  You have to inhabit the mind of the predator.
[02:46:31]  That's why I sympathize.
[02:46:32]  Yeah.
[02:46:34]  No, no, you're sorry to interrupt, but it's just, I'm shocked.
[02:46:37]  You're totally right.
[02:46:37]  It's, I feel his feelings so strongly.
[02:46:42]  It's almost like they're my own that it's like I'm dying and I'd want me to visit too.
[02:46:48]  And the baby zebra who says, oh, I'm such a coward.
[02:46:54]  I keep thinking about the mind of the lion.
[02:46:58]  What would you say to the baby zebra?
[02:47:00]  Should we be able to speak, baby zebra?
[02:47:02]  What would you say to the baby zebra who said, oh, I'm such a coward.
[02:47:06]  I just keep thinking about the perspective of the lion.
[02:47:10]  I'd say, keep thinking of the perspective of the lion, right?
[02:47:12]  That's how you live.
[02:47:13]  You're doing great.
[02:47:13]  Like, that's a great.
[02:47:15]  That's how you live.
[02:47:15]  That's how the mechanism.
[02:47:16]  Yeah.
[02:47:17]  You don't live any other way.
[02:47:18]  Right.
[02:47:20]  That's the only way you live.
[02:47:21]  The only way that you lived as a child was to completely disown yourself and inhabit the minds of the predators.
[02:47:30]  And it's an out-of-date defense mechanism now because I'm out of the jungle.
[02:47:35]  I'm out of the prison.
[02:47:36]  So it's a, what do you call it, like a vestigial organ, so to speak.
[02:47:41]  Is that so?
[02:47:43]  Are you out?
[02:47:46]  Just when you think you're out.
[02:47:48]  Are you back in?
[02:47:50]  I'll give you two examples.
[02:47:52]  Number one, and this is not to put me up as some kind of standard.
[02:47:55]  I'm just giving you a counterexample.
[02:47:57]  I didn't know my father died until quite a while.
[02:48:00]  Well, not quite a while, until after he died.
[02:48:03]  I don't know if my mother is alive or not.
[02:48:07]  I'm out.
[02:48:09]  Are you out?
[02:48:11]  Your heart's out.
[02:48:13]  Not just your heart.
[02:48:15]  You're in contact with everyone.
[02:48:17]  Well, not your mother, right?
[02:48:19]  I'm not in contact with my dad.
[02:48:21]  My brother informed me.
[02:48:22]  I'm only in contact with my brother.
[02:48:24]  Now, I'm not saying you should be out.
[02:48:27]  I can't make that.
[02:48:27]  It's your brother, right?
[02:48:28]  I don't know.
[02:48:29]  I don't know whether you should or shouldn't be in contact with your brother.
[02:48:32]  But the fact that you are in contact with your brother means you're not out.
[02:48:36]  And I don't know if you're conscious of the fact that you're not out and that you're going to get re-triggered, re-food, reactivated on a continual basis.
[02:48:45]  And does your brother, does your brother align with your parents or with reason?
[02:48:54]  We both...
[02:48:56]  I'll give you a bit of a...
[02:48:57]  No, I've got to keep it brief.
[02:48:59]  I can't.
[02:48:59]  Hang on.
[02:49:00]  I can't delete it.
[02:49:01]  It's too late.
[02:49:03]  Does your brother align with reason?
[02:49:06]  He's in contact with them.
[02:49:07]  Yes.
[02:49:08]  Okay.
[02:49:09]  So you're not out.
[02:49:11]  So you say, well, I don't talk much to the lion, but the fully grown lion cub, oh, yeah, no, I'm still in contact with that fully grown lion cub.
[02:49:17]  It's like, then you still got to think about the lions.
[02:49:20]  Because your brother, in alignment with your parents, will constantly reactivate betrayal in you.
[02:49:28]  So you're not out.
[02:49:30]  And that's why you can't feel.
[02:49:31]  It's not a cowardice.
[02:49:33]  It's inevitable.
[02:49:34]  If you're still around lions, you're not out.
[02:49:38]  If the lions still have access to you, if your brother can email you, oh, dad had a heart attack, he's in a coma, boom, boom, boom.
[02:49:44]  Not out now.
[02:49:46]  Whether you should or shouldn't be out, I don't know.
[02:49:48]  It's up to you.
[02:49:49]  But what I am saying is that this is why you can't feel because the lions are still roaming the house.

=== Reactivating Past Betrayal (08:37) ===

[02:49:55]  Oh, my blah blah.
[02:49:56]  Good luck having it.
[02:49:58]  Incredible.
[02:50:00]  Now, this is really good.
[02:50:02]  I'm so glad I called you.
[02:50:04]  I know we're pushing on the time.
[02:50:08]  But something you said, you said, I'm not going to tell you whether it's right.
[02:50:12]  I think I'm paraphrasing you now, but I'm not going to tell you whether it's right or wrong to be in contact with your brother, but you are in contact with your brother, and so you're not out.
[02:50:21]  I mean, I have a wife and I want children.
[02:50:25]  Isn't it wrong to not be out?
[02:50:27]  Look, man, it's just a question of cost-benefits.
[02:50:30]  It's not immoral to be in contact with your brother.
[02:50:34]  He's not a criminal.
[02:50:35]  You're not harboring a fugitive.
[02:50:37]  It's not immoral to be in contact with your brother.
[02:50:40]  There are costs and there are benefits.
[02:50:42]  Now, my concern is that you're only looking at the benefits and not processing the costs.
[02:50:48]  Right.
[02:50:50]  Is your brother?
[02:50:52]  Wait, let me ask you this.
[02:50:53]  Does your brother recognize and condemn the child abuse, the egregious, horrendous child abuse that you guys suffered?
[02:51:02]  This is why I wanted the leader.
[02:51:04]  He did.
[02:51:04]  He de-thoooed.
[02:51:05]  He became Christian.
[02:51:06]  He re-thooed.
[02:51:08]  So he's in that.
[02:51:09]  And did you lead him in those directions?
[02:51:11]  I would say we traveled together.
[02:51:15]  Come on.
[02:51:16]  Maybe I was a bit of a dude.
[02:51:17]  We're going to be exactly together.
[02:51:18]  What a kind of usual.
[02:51:19]  Yeah.
[02:51:21]  Yeah, no, you're right.
[02:51:22]  He led you.
[02:51:22]  You're right.
[02:51:24]  I was the leader.
[02:51:25]  Okay, so you led him to Jesus.
[02:51:27]  Yeah, you led him to Jesus led him back to the family, right?
[02:51:32]  I also led him to you, first of all, and then to Jesus.
[02:51:36]  And how have your conversations been with him about leaving the church?
[02:51:45]  I mean, I've given him the cliff notes.
[02:51:47]  So I've told him my thinking and my reasoning, but we haven't gone deep into just how important a decision this is, the impact it'll have, the fact that it's this major.
[02:51:57]  I guess we haven't really connected on that issue in any kind of appropriately theorious way.
[02:52:04]  But I could call like process the severe moral crimes of your father.
[02:52:13]  He acknowledges them, but then it's a yeah, but.
[02:52:16]  And yeah, Christianity and it's helpful.
[02:52:22]  If you were to say to your brother, I'm not saying whether you should.
[02:52:26]  This is just a mental exercise, just to be clear.
[02:52:28]  If you were to say to your brother, I'm sorry to do this to you, man.
[02:52:33]  You have to choose.
[02:52:34]  Like, our parents are kind of evil and they're kind of unredeemably evil.
[02:52:38]  Like, dad presided over, dad presided over being beaten up violently for like 1500 times, just a rough calculation.
[02:52:49]  Three times a week, two to twelve, right?
[02:52:52]  And mom screamed at us, mom was violent, and he kept leaving us with a violent woman.
[02:52:57]  He got together with mom, breaking up her family.
[02:53:01]  And then he dated this Indian woman and then dated her daughter.
[02:53:05]  Like, he's a predator.
[02:53:07]  He's kind of vile.
[02:53:09]  And I can't have that in my life.
[02:53:12]  I can't have unrepentant evildoers in my life.
[02:53:17]  I can't do it.
[02:53:20]  And, you know, I'm really sorry to have to do this to you, but you're going to have to choose.
[02:53:26]  I can't have this pipeline to this level of corruption and immorality in my life.
[02:53:32]  I don't want it around my kids.
[02:53:33]  I don't want it around my wife.
[02:53:35]  And unfortunately, it's kind of like if I spent 10 years in combat in a war, I can't have people randomly playing war sounds in my house because it fucks me up.
[02:53:47]  And that's that's beyond the level of conscious control, right?
[02:53:53]  I mean, I don't know if you've ever, I remember many years ago, I went to a movie called Once Were Warriors with a woman who'd been sexually abused.
[02:54:06]  And there is, unfortunately, a scene of sexual abuse, childhood sexual abuse in the movie.
[02:54:13]  And like her fingernails dug into my arm because she was completely re-triggered.
[02:54:22]  And that is below the level of conscious control.
[02:54:26]  You can't just will yourself to not react, right?
[02:54:29]  If somebody has been bitten up by a shark and then they see a fill in the water, they're going to freak out.
[02:54:34]  Their heart's going to pump.
[02:54:35]  They're going to like full fight or flight.
[02:54:38]  It's at the physiological level, right?
[02:54:40]  And so, like, I can't be, yeah, I can't be around this kind of corruption because it messes me up.
[02:54:49]  It makes me more distant from myself.
[02:54:51]  It undoes a lot of progress.
[02:54:52]  It makes me more distant from my wife.
[02:54:55]  And I just want to have a relatively peaceful, happy and content life.
[02:54:59]  And I can't do it with these triggers going off in my face all the time.
[02:55:04]  So you're going to have to choose.
[02:55:06]  I'm not going to spend time around corrupt people anymore.
[02:55:10]  And if you make that choice, and I respect a choice, whatever choice you make, and you don't have to answer me right away, of course, right?
[02:55:17]  But, you know, I'll give you a week or something.
[02:55:20]  And I'm happy to talk about it more.
[02:55:21]  But I'm out.
[02:55:24]  I'm out of the crime gang.
[02:55:26]  And if you want to stay and sympathize with mom and dad, honestly, you know, peace be upon you.
[02:55:32]  Like, that's fine.
[02:55:33]  But I can't then have a relationship with you.
[02:55:35]  Now, if you were to say something like that, and just please for understand, I'm not saying you should say that.
[02:55:39]  It's just a mental exercise.
[02:55:41]  What do you think over time your brother would say?
[02:55:46]  I think he would be very conflicted because of the religiosity, but he'd understand me on a really deep level.
[02:55:53]  And I'm like 60, 40, surprisingly, 60, 40, he might side with me.
[02:56:01]  Now, if you still have a gateway through which the past can fuck you up, you just have to be conscious of it.
[02:56:11]  And I don't know that you're conscious of it.
[02:56:13]  I don't know if you've said to yourself, well, I find value in having my brother around, but he is going to hit me with the constant taser of the past.
[02:56:21]  And it is going to mess me up on a regular basis.
[02:56:24]  I don't know if you've weighed those cost benefits.
[02:56:27]  I haven't.
[02:56:27]  I haven't.
[02:56:28]  And I don't know how you do it, Stefan, but you've threaded the needle.
[02:56:31]  We went through this for two and a half hours and you found my brother.
[02:56:35]  It's totally checking out.
[02:56:38]  It's like all dawning on me.
[02:56:40]  It's all dawning on me like crazy.
[02:56:42]  Like, wow, I didn't see it.
[02:56:44]  Yeah, he's the avenue.
[02:56:46]  Yeah.
[02:56:46]  He's the victim through which he gets coming out.
[02:56:48]  Sorry, go ahead.
[02:56:49]  Sorry, go on.
[02:56:51]  Yeah, when he called, like, I hadn't heard it from him for maybe a couple of weeks, a few weeks.
[02:56:58]  And he called me while I was driving and felt really nervous.
[02:57:03]  You know, when mom calls or dad calls in the past, you get those nerves, right?
[02:57:06]  Like, oh, it's like a chess, right?
[02:57:09]  But I like my brother.
[02:57:11]  And, you know, we talk really, we can talk for hours and then we get along great.
[02:57:18]  And we're both, we both talk theology, philosophy, life.
[02:57:23]  We, we share things with each other.
[02:57:25]  It's a, I've always thought just this great relationship said to feel those nerves.
[02:57:29]  What the hell is that?
[02:57:30]  It's, it's like this residual thing.
[02:57:32]  It's because I'm not receiving a call from my brother.
[02:57:35]  I'm receiving a call from myself.
[02:57:37]  Well, it's because if your brother is still aligned with your parents, then it is a betrayal of the evils of your shared history.
[02:57:48]  He is colluding with the corrupt.
[02:57:50]  Yeah, and I said 60-40.
[02:57:52]  I said 60-40, but now I'm starting to question that because maybe if it was just him, but he has a family, he has a wife, and his wife's family is not going to be aware of.
[02:58:00]  Oh, yeah, if he's married, that's going to be there.
[02:58:02]  If he's married, she was to be tough.
[02:58:05]  If he's married, that's going to be tough.
[02:58:07]  So, yeah, that is, that is going to be that is going to be tough.
[02:58:15]  So, in an interesting way, I would argue that it was your parents who led you to Christianity because Christianity benefited your parents, and I would argue, not you.
[02:58:26]  Yeah, absolutely, it benefited them.
[02:58:28]  Okay.
[02:58:28]  Well, I mean, I guess we've got someplace useful.

=== Defenses Against Trauma (04:19) ===

[02:58:32]  But yeah, as long as the corruption is around you and the history is surrounding you, your emotions will be perpetually absent.
[02:58:42]  It's like a field mice when there are owls overhead.
[02:58:45]  They don't come out, right?
[02:58:46]  Now, if the owls are gone, they can come out.
[02:58:48]  But as long as the owls are circling, they don't come out, right?
[02:58:51]  And so, as long as you have these tentacles or tendrils of corruption and abuse and violence and betrayal around you, it's not safe for your emotions to emerge.
[02:59:04]  And they won't.
[02:59:06]  And that's why you're constantly in your head.
[02:59:09]  And this is why you don't have any weight to your decisions because you have lost your instincts, or your rather, your instincts would cause you to be destroyed as a child.
[02:59:18]  So you have to abandon your instincts.
[02:59:21]  And Nathaniel Brandon has a good book on this called The Disowned Self, or Adult Children of Alcoholics is another good book for this kind of thing.
[02:59:28]  But yeah, you're not allowed to have feelings, right?
[02:59:31]  I mean, this is the funny thing.
[02:59:32]  It's kind of a funny thing because I just talked about the deplatforming this morning.
[02:59:36]  But I allowed to have perspectives and opinions in a world of abusers.
[02:59:42]  Well, no, because if I say things that the abusers don't like, they will simply verbally abuse me and steal from me by destroying my work, right?
[02:59:52]  That's the way of the book.
[02:59:55]  So, yeah, I don't know what you should do with your brother.
[02:59:58]  And I'm not pretending to say that, like I genuinely don't know.
[03:00:00]  That might be a whole other call.
[03:00:02]  But what I would say is that your emotions, especially while this remains unconscious, your emotions will not be there to help and guide you and give you weight and certainty in your decisions while you are in a state of re-triggering or re-enactment of childhood trauma.
[03:00:22]  And your childhood trauma, my friend, was considerable.
[03:00:25]  And I wanted to close the call by just saying how much I deeply and genuinely admire what it is that you've done with your life.
[03:00:35]  Maybe because of, but certainly despite these horrible things that were done to you as a child, these horrible betrayals and the horrible parents that you had.
[03:00:45]  I'm really sorry about that.
[03:00:47]  And you should be enormously proud, in my opinion, as to what you've done with it.
[03:00:52]  And I'm really glad you called.
[03:00:54]  I'm really glad I called too.
[03:00:57]  You've helped me considerably.
[03:00:58]  My experience of this call was like, I don't know if you used to play chess, but it's like you're in this extremely messy situation in a difficult match at chess.
[03:01:11]  And there's just one piece that's got five attackers and five defenders and another piece that's got seven attacks and seven defenses on it.
[03:01:19]  And you're trying to pile everything up and try to clear the mess and find any kind of an advantage.
[03:01:24]  And then your opponent makes a move that just cuts through it all.
[03:01:28]  And instead of it being messy, it becomes immediately clear that you're screwed.
[03:01:33]  Well, or you're liberated from a game you can't win.
[03:01:36]  That's what I felt.
[03:01:38]  Yeah.
[03:01:38]  And it's like, oh, now I see so clearly.
[03:01:41]  And it was just this attack that was waiting in the wings all along.
[03:01:44]  And there it is.
[03:01:46]  And it's just every other option.
[03:01:47]  None of the other pieces matter.
[03:01:48]  All those attacks and defense are just red herrings.
[03:01:50]  And everything else I was thinking about and racking my brain about.
[03:01:53]  It's just not there.
[03:01:55]  And then it's like, oh, brother.
[03:01:56]  And then all of these other lines of attacks and defenses, the real game has just shown up.
[03:02:01]  This was the game all along.
[03:02:02]  And now I see it.
[03:02:05]  That's incredible.
[03:02:07]  And yes, thank you for commenting on my emotions as well.
[03:02:12]  If it's anything, the one emotion I did feel is when you were describing, just empathizing with the struggle I went through.
[03:02:20]  That was really meaningful to me.
[03:02:21]  Like I felt that.
[03:02:22]  I actually felt sad on behalf of myself.
[03:02:28]  And so thank you for being a friend for me with that.
[03:02:34]  I really do appreciate you giving the show.
[03:02:36]  I will close off here.
[03:02:37]  And please, please, I hope you'll keep me posted this week about what happens with the egg, with what's going on with your wife.
[03:02:46]  Yes, that and everything else.
[03:02:48]  I'll let you know.
[03:02:49]  Thank you so much for all your insights.
[03:02:51]  Bye.