Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux - My Father KILLED! Twitter/X Space

Feb. 9, 2026 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

01:35:46

My Father KILLED! Twitter/X Space

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Helping Daughter Find Mate 00:09:29
	Good evening, my friends.
	I hope you're doing well.
	This is a makeup session because the other night we had some tech issues, so I wanted to get to people's questions or comments or criticisms.
	I certainly have some thoughts of my own to share, but I am, of course, thrilled beyond measure to hear your thoughts, issues, comments, challenges, problems, whatever you think philosophy can help you with, I am happy to facilitate.
	Hello.
	So, quick question.
	I'm trying to help my daughter find a suitable mate, and she is interviewing candidates.
	And we've come up against the problem that the potential candidates that are equal to her age haven't really determined a course of action.
	And if she were to potentially look for mates that are a bit older, she's concerned about them having previous partners.
	How old's your daughter?
	19.
	19.
	Does she have any dating history?
	No.
	Like, she's not, she doesn't have any intimate partners.
	Well, I mean, but you can have a dating history without having intimate partners.
	No, no dating history to speak up.
	Okay, that's fine.
	And is her father in her life?
	No.
	What happened there, if you don't mind me asking?
	It's a raging dumpster fire.
	We've actually discussed this before.
	I called you previously.
	But essentially, I made poor decisions and I'm not a good role model.
	That's already been decided.
	She's aware of it.
	She understands about breaking family patterns.
	She's currently reading real-time relationships and she's not going to be repeating my mating strategy.
	Okay, got it, got it.
	Okay.
	I won't press you on stuff we've already talked about before.
	And what is she looking for?
	She's looking for somebody with similar political beliefs, similar values as somebody who wants children and somebody who is looking for something long-term, doesn't do any hard drugs, and is, and she's been giving the potential suitors personality tests.
	So she's looking for-interesting.
	Yeah, so she's looking for somebody that her personality test found that she was very high in openness, like in the 90th percentile.
	She's also very high in negative emotion.
	So, and she's introverted.
	So, she's looking for potentially somebody because openness is an IQ dimension, she needs somebody she can spar with intellectually.
	Preferably, somebody who's a little bit more extroverted than she is and somebody low in negative emotion.
	So, she wants like a jigsaw puzzle piece, right?
	You fit together, and the combination is greater than the sum of its parts.
	Something like that?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	And I assume she's out of high school.
	What's she doing at the moment?
	Right now, she was homeschooled, so she's writing her ACEs.
	She still has two to go.
	She's currently scoring above expectations, and also she's volunteering.
	I'm not sure if you know about the separatist movement in Alberta.
	Oh, yes.
	Okay, well, they've asked that she join a panel.
	So they want to do some discussions with people her age to find out about what about the separatist movement do they not like or they do like.
	And other than that, she just does a Bible study on once a week.
	Okay, got it.
	So when she was homeschooled, what was her social life like, if there was anything that way?
	Her social life was a struggle because, yeah, she didn't have a lot of access to socializing.
	And the friends that she did have, she's essentially like through just being in your vicinity, in your orbit, she's disqualified a lot of her friends.
	So she's on a mission to find people that are actually the Bible study thing was per idea because she's looking for people that won't like cause massive damage, if that makes sense.
	Now, when you say in my orbit, you mean she sort of listens to philosophy in the way that I talk about it.
	And that has given her some compatibility challenges with crazy people.
	I'm trying to think of as nice a way as possible to put it.
	Yeah, that's very accurate.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	And what is her height?
	I'm sorry to like a horse trader, but I'm just sort of curious.
	What is her height and weight?
	She's 5'4, 105, 110.
	105.
	110.
	Does she do sports?
	No, no, no sports, really.
	No.
	Okay, got it.
	Got it.
	And her goal is marriage and children or something else?
	Marriage and children, preferably four kids.
	And she wants to be a stay-at-home mom.
	Excellent.
	Okay.
	And what sort of, oh, I hate this word, lifestyle, because it's generally used by people who have neither life nor style, but it's a convenient shorthand.
	So what sort of lifestyle is she looking for?
	What would make her happy?
	Well, that's sort of where we're at a struggle here because the potential suitors that she's come in contact with, they work in the oil field.
	Obviously, we're in northern Alberta.
	So they are often away from home.
	And she's got reservations about that, raising four kids basically alone, where, you know, and then if she, like, the other option would potentially be somebody who's gone through post-secondary.
	But my reservation with that is that post-secondary isn't what it used to be.
	So that's not a good determiner as far as like the person that you're going to be with.
	I don't think she's very obsessed with finances.
	I think she would be quite content if she had a partner that was home in the evening and they lived an average lifestyle.
	Okay, got it.
	Got it.
	So with regards to the guys in the oil fields, I think when I worked up north, I was like three months on, a month off or something like that.
	I can't remember exactly.
	It's been a while.
	But that's the kind of life that she doesn't want where he's gone.
	I mean, he's not gone permanently, but he's gone a lot, right?
	Right.
	Okay.
	All right.
	And how, it's always tough for a parent, but how would you rate her looks sort of one to ten?
	I would say, taking into consideration that I'm biased, I think she's probably an eight, maybe nine.
	I mean, I can really only just go by body language.
	When she's around men her age or boys her age, they start talking about their resources.
	So they're always happy to see her face and they try to catch her eye.
	So I'm thinking pretty good.
	Okay.
	And does she have boys approach her or ask her?
	I don't know what they ask for these days.
	Insta or Snap or something like that?
	Yeah, Insta Snap.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So when she's out, again, I'm just trying to get the sort of frequency of this.
	When she's out and about, how many times is she approached?
	Say you're out in some social event for a couple of hours.
	And I don't necessarily mean guys who ask for her number, but you know, guys who will come and talk to her or try that sort of stuff in some way.
	I think it's pretty infrequent.
	I mean, she's introverted, so she doesn't really look approachable.
	She doesn't open herself up to engage necessarily.
	Like, so I think if she gave the sign or the signal that she could be approached, I think it would happen more than it does.
	But it seems like anybody that does get a chance to talk to her just wants to keep on talking to her.
	And I would say the frequency would be, you know, if she's out about in public for three to four hours, at least once.
	Okay, that's pretty good.
	And has she had guys approach her that she would be interested in, at least from first conversation?
	No, no.
	Because usually she, I think, when they do approach her, she basically asks, like, what is your intention?
	You know what I mean?
	Like, she's not really great with the flow.
	I'm not sure I know what you mean.
	So feel free to break it out for me.
	Okay, like, for instance, she was out with her girlfriends one night and there was somebody that approached her and he's like, can I have your number?
	And she's like, well, I don't even know your name.
	Like, why?
	Why do you, why should I give you my number?
	You know what I mean?
	Like, she kind of, I think she panicked a bit.
	And he's, she's like, if you want to tell me three things about yourself, I would consider it.
Learning to Set Boundaries 00:04:15
	And he, I think he choked and walked away.
	And I don't know.
	Okay.
	So when you have this is something that your daughter reported to you, right?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Have you, oh, this is like, it's almost like eavesdropping, but have you been in the privileged position of hearing your daughter's receptivity or way of talking to a young man who's interested in her?
	Well, she's been working on it because it's been an evolution, right?
	Like, I mean, her natural instinct, she admitted, is to try to provoke them because she wants to be sure that they can stay even-tempered.
	So she would say like, like things in general that would be a little bit controversial or antagonistic.
	And so I had to, I had to tell her.
	Like, like what?
	Sorry, what would she, what would she say?
	Like, oh, just mocking things, things that were a little bit mocking in nature or just a little bit critical.
	And I would say, I explained to her, like, you know, men propose, women dispose, and you're essentially, when you're rejecting them, you're, you're offering, you're suggesting gene death, you know, so they're not, you have to, you have to first get them comfortable enough to, you know, do some banter and then, you know, I mean, maybe explain to them my instinct is to be super hypercritical because I want to be sure that you can stay calm under pressure and I'm not going to upset you.
	Is this making sense?
	So she's just learning this stuff.
	Where is so?
	She's learning how to.
	Why is she?
	Is it because of her father?
	Why is she so concerned with the male keeping his composure?
	Yeah, her dad.
	And when was her dad last directly in her life?
	Two years ago.
	Okay.
	And when did you guys divorce or separate?
	When she was 11.
	And her father stayed in her life over the course of her teenage years.
	Is that right?
	Periodically, yes.
	Was he like, oh, so he wasn't like a 50-50 custody guy he was intermittently in?
	Yeah, I mean, we gave her the opportunity to float between us and she has family where he lives.
	It was at her discretion that she was not a hostage, not by me and not by her father.
	So it was like we did give her a lot of freedom in that sense.
	And so when she was like, when the relationship in the vicinity with her dad was something she needed, she went there and spent time with her other siblings and her other family.
	And like her half-siblings, is that right?
	Half-siblings.
	That's right.
	Yeah.
	So is she the only child between you and her father?
	Yes.
	And so she grew up as an only child who was homeschooled.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	I mean, so was mine.
	So I'm not a criticism.
	I'm just trying to map the area.
	So what behaviors of her fathers are most concerning to her?
	Well, he's a screamer.
	He yells.
	He's very, he throws tantrums.
	He throws things.
	He's, yeah.
	And is this continuing, at least up until the two years ago that he was more in her life?
	No, I think he's aged out of it quite a bit.
	So when was he last a sort of regular screamer?
	I think when she was about 14, he started to kind of, I'm not sure if he just changed because he recognized the damage he was doing in his relationships or if he just didn't have the like, I think my honest opinion is my ex-husband was did not have a great relationship with his mother.
	And I think that that essentially he ended up taking out on me and subsequently all the other women in his relationships.
	And so he would just yell at the women in his life because I think he didn't feel heard and he didn't feel, yeah, respected, I guess.
Why He Changed 00:15:20
	I'm not 100% certain.
	So that's another thing she's looking for is somebody who has a good relationship with their mother.
	Okay.
	That's some very sympathetic explanations as to why a man is a screamer, like he doesn't feel heard or respected or something like that.
	Oh, you call, you called it.
	She called it too.
	I have this terrible habit of sympathizing with men.
	Like it's not normal.
	Well, hang on, hang on.
	You may have a terrible habit of sympathizing with bad men.
	Yes, thank you.
	That's correct.
	Okay.
	Why do you think you provide these gentle, lovely, rather sentimental explanations for abusive behavior?
	Because it's a survival technique.
	I was raised around psychopathic men, and I've come to recognize it, that I can't evaluate the situation accurately because essentially it was life or death.
	So you were raised around psychopathic men.
	So you were raised, and I'm sorry for that, of course, right?
	So you were raised around psychopathic men that the women chose.
	Yes.
	And yes.
	And I can't do the, I'm so sorry, go ahead.
	I repeated my mother's mating strategy.
	So I know what's going on.
	Like I can see it and I'm done now.
	Like I've had my chance and my opportunity.
	My kids are raised.
	I'm not pursuing relationships.
	I'm looking forward to being a grandmother.
	And I'm no longer attracted to them, but it's not an issue really, because like I said, like I wouldn't go through the effort of pursuing another relationship because I'm looking forward to having some stability.
	And things aren't about me anymore.
	It's about the next generation.
	Hang on, hang on.
	But what's what decade of life are you in?
	I'm 44.
	44.
	Okay.
	44, grandmother.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	No, that's good, man.
	That's that's good.
	Have young.
	But why can't you just choose a nice guy?
	Me personally, because I think I did have the opportunity to, but they couldn't go up against my family.
	Like, we have now, though, now.
	Now, because I'm not sure.
	Like, at some point, listening to you, you said, like, you know, it's like, take yourself out of the rotation.
	You know what I mean?
	Like, didn't hang on.
	Hang on.
	Hang on.
	I don't think ever.
	I don't think I've ever said, listen, 40 years ago, I was 19 years old.
	Okay, that is a long time.
	40 years ago, you were just out of diapers.
	Do you know why I'm saying 40 years?
	No, why?
	Because you're 44.
	You have over 40 years to go.
	Yeah, that's true.
	And you just can do it alone?
	Well, why not just choose a nice guy?
	Is it so impossible?
	It's not impossible.
	But the other thing, too, is, I mean, like, I am not having kids anymore.
	So what am I going to offer?
	Well, what do you mean?
	I mean, people get married and don't have kids all the time, thousands every day.
	If he's already had his kids, if his wife died, he's not looking to have more.
	His kids are half grown or grown.
	Yeah.
	He's a single guy.
	Maybe he's infertile.
	I mean, there's a million things about why a guy would want a woman to love in the absence of providing children.
	It's a good point.
	Another really big problem that I have is that.
	Hang on.
	Hang on.
	Oh, sorry.
	Is this in pursuit?
	I'm not sure if we're going off on side quest story time or if this is in pursuit of what I'm trying to ask you.
	And as a reason I'm trying to ask it, but is this about why you can't choose a nice guy?
	Yeah, I think another really good.
	Yeah, I think a really another big, another really big issue that I have is that I'm like in the 90th percentile for like intellectual as an intellectual.
	And finding a person that wants to spar is really difficult.
	They mostly end up unfortunately feeling like they can't keep up.
	Like I haven't found many men that except for one.
	And like I said, my family chased him away.
	So actually two.
	One, one had a degree in psychology and the other one, we would just sit and talk about physics.
	And I don't even like physics.
	But yeah.
	So he's like, hey, let's get physical.
	And you're like, okay.
	And he's like, equals MC squared.
	Talk to me, baby.
	Yeah, talk dirty photons to me.
	Okay.
	So you've met two smart guys over the course of your life.
	Your family, as you say, chased them away, which is not actually quite true.
	Your proximity to your family chased them away.
	Yes, which is my daughter is on top of that.
	So she's.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	So it's not your family that chased them away.
	It was your decision to stay around your family.
	I have no doubt that my family would have chased away the woman I married if I'd stuck around them.
	But that's, of course, that's in the rear view.
	So you meet smart guys.
	So why wouldn't you meet a smart guy?
	Why wouldn't you meet a smart, nice guy?
	I mean, be open to it and be in pursuit of that.
	Yeah, that's actually a really good idea.
	And why do you think I'm bringing this up in reference to your daughter's potential boyfriends?
	Because potentially I could lead by example.
	Well, there's that.
	And, you know, a guy, a quality guy, is going to come into your daughter's situation and he's going to look for the family, right?
	He's going to look right because, you know, I'm trying to remind guys, you don't just marry a woman, you marry her family, right?
	Now, I'm just trying to put myself, I mean, it's a long ways back to get into the mindset of a mind of a 19-year-old, but let's just say I'm able to get myself into the mindset of a relatively wise 19-year-old.
	And he sees single mother who's 44.
	Who, when was the last time you had a relationship that wasn't the father of your daughter?
	I think about four years ago.
	What happened there?
	Well, I sort of uprooted my whole life to chase an idea of what I thought would be a relationship, and I just ended up paying his mortgage.
	Well, that's a lot of story time and one fact, but it doesn't give me much about what happened.
	I made the wrong choice again.
	No, no, I understand.
	I get that.
	I mean, that's why you're not together.
	But was he unemployed?
	Was he a deadbeat?
	Was he violent?
	Was he abusive?
	Was he neglectful?
	Like, what was wrong with him that you ended up paying his mortgage and dumping him?
	Well, essentially, he was going through a divorce and it was really like, yeah.
	So, I mean, like, if you're trying to date in your 40s, you're kind of picking through the leftovers and those that you, you know, like, I just seem to be getting these guys.
	Well, first of all, like I said, because I repeat my mother's mating strategy, but then the next thing was that, you know, I mean, he was essentially trying to pick up his life from having been divorced.
	And sorry, you picked a guy who was going through a divorce.
	Yes.
	Why?
	Because we had dated when we were young.
	Okay.
	And that's not quite an answer, but why?
	I think, well, like, I've, what I understand about myself is that I the easiest way to explain this is that essentially I see my dad be really mistreated by my stepmother.
	And I sort of ended up white knighting him.
	So I kind of white knight all these guys.
	And yeah.
	How long was the marriage that he was getting divorced from?
	It was about five years, I think.
	But in hindsight, there was lots of signs that he was never really faithful.
	And, you know, I'm essentially.
	Sorry, never really faithful to his wife or to you?
	To his wife.
	He was faithful.
	He was faithful to me.
	Okay, so he was coming out of a divorce of five years and he you think he cheated on his wife.
	And where was he?
	Because the divorce process is what, like a two-year thing.
	Where was he in that process?
	They had, they had it settled pretty quickly.
	She had basically just been living with him and the total opposite of me in the sense that she didn't pay for anything.
	So he managed all of the household bills and she had a job and her child was in care during the day.
	And so she just banked money.
	So he was a stepfather?
	No, that was their child, their shared child.
	Okay, yeah.
	So when she left, she left with basically like, you know, almost $200,000, you know, and child.
	Sorry, it's a little fast here.
	So, so they had a little kid together and then she left.
	You said she took two.
	Did she steal the money?
	Like, what do you mean she ended?
	She left for $200,000.
	She just collected the money, stored what she earned, spent his.
	He paid all the bills.
	So her check was never factored into the money of the household.
	She just stored it up and then left with it.
	And when they went through the divorce proceedings, she had all this money.
	And the divorce lawyer was like, you can actually go after her for money because you can get half that money, right?
	Yeah.
	And he said, don't worry about it.
	Just like, I'd like, just like to be divorced.
	I'd like to go our separate ways.
	And then they agreed on a child support amount.
	And that was that.
	So child support amount.
	Sorry.
	But she took $200,000 out of the marriage.
	So was the child support from her to him?
	No, it was from him to her.
	Him to her.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	And how does your father get exploited, in your view, by his wife?
	Well, he married a woman who essentially told him a really good story about the type of woman that she was.
	And she went to great lengths to try to...
	Are you there?
	Sorry?
	Yeah, I gotcha.
	Okay.
	She went to great lengths to try to like sell the story, essentially, and it eventually ended up falling apart.
	But my dad really wanted to believe it.
	And like she was extremely jealous of my dad and his relationships with his children because like we sort of worshipped him a bit to some degree.
	My dad, you know, he's a big personality.
	And then so.
	So he likes to be worshipped.
	I think he did have that like narcissistic tendency for sure.
	But essentially.
	Because I mean, if you have people in your life who worship you, you have to say to them, please don't, because, you know, I'm just a guy and like, I don't want to be some sort of demigod or like, because it makes it difficult.
	If a father demands worship, it makes it difficult for his children to, and particularly for his daughters to have a healthy love, right?
	Right.
	It's like, you know, the women who judge every man by the standard of Jesus are going to be eternally disappointed, right?
	Anyway, so sorry, go ahead.
	Yeah.
	So she would do a bunch of things to try to undermine the relationship between my dad and his children.
	And to a large degree, she ended up being successful.
	So the more she could downgrade us in his eyes and make us out to be these terrible monsters that were trying to, you know, cause their divorce and that we were like, like, like the devil's spawn, essentially.
	At first, my dad like kind of brushed it off and said, okay, well, you know, we should try to work with them.
	But eventually what happened was she poisoned my dad against his kids, but it's still expected to be married to the same man.
	So she ended up despising him as well.
	Like her idea was she was going to marry this man because he was a good father.
	He was raising these kids on his own by himself, you know, and he was hardworking.
	And well, my mother is in another province at this time.
	And so she, I'm not 100% certain.
	I was too young, but I just do know that my dad was, you know, he was paying like he was paying a babysitter 24 hours a day because he worked on the road a lot.
	And so their friends set them up and she took over the household chores and they got married like very quickly.
	And then, you know, he didn't have to worry about his kids and he could focus on the other things that he was doing.
	And, you know, because she didn't have, she had been raised in foster care, the idea that we would have a loving father was something she was very attracted to, but couldn't stand to see us have it.
	So she would do all kinds of like insane things, tell lies, tell stories, sow division, like create all these kind of problems, and ended up breaking my dad's heart.
	And, you know, then she still expected to be married to her.
	She's breaking your dad's heart.
	What do you mean?
	Well, when she sold him this story about how terrible and awful.
	Why is your dad some passive hacky sack being kicked around by women here?
	You said he's got a big personality.
	He's a smart guy, right?
	So why is he listening to lies about his own children?
	Yeah, that's a very good question.
	I think his mother died when he was very young and he could, he had, clearly he had some attachment issues.
	He had some mental health problems.
	But I think that, you know, he, in my eyes, he was trying.
	He was, it looked to me like he was, you know, aiming to do better and he wanted us to work things out.
	But he didn't really understand that there was no way to work things out with somebody who was never trying.
	Like, it wasn't as if, you know, we would give into the compromises and then she would be a reasonable person.
	That was never on her list and never part of her agenda.
	And my dad was deluding himself if he thought that that was possible.
	And eventually it just ended up catching up with them.
	And then, you know, their whole lives spiraled into misery and they hated each other.
	And then she neglected him to the point of death.
	I'm sorry, what does that mean?
	It means that, like, I was having conversations with my dad and I said, there's something wrong with your medication.
	And I phoned his wife and I said, like, there's a problem here.
	His blood thinners are too high.
	I can tell by the conversation we're having on the phone.
	He was phoning me to say that his blood sugar was way out of whack.
	And, you know, he couldn't find his medication.
	And essentially, like, this went on until I finally said, I'm going to come take care of you.
Growth Through Accountability 00:02:17
	Like, I'm going to pick up and go.
	I'm sorry.
	And I know, I know there's a lot to get across in a short amount of time.
	So it's no false on your part, but did your dad have like Alzheimer's or why isn't he responsible for his own medication?
	Yeah, you're 100% right.
	My dad was very childlike.
	And yeah, I think he just saw that as like it was the woman's job to take care of him.
	I think he never grew up because his mom died.
	So he didn't, and I don't think he had any male role models.
	Boy, oh boy, half of your stuff is excuses.
	Oh, I'm so good.
	Lots of men's mothers die and they grow up.
	You're right.
	Because of this, and this because of this and this because of this.
	And he had this and he had detachment and blah, It's like, come on.
	Well, I'm a free will guy.
	Right.
	Okay.
	People are responsible.
	This is just me trying to make sense of things.
	So I don't.
	Why do you not try to make sense of it?
	You're making excuses for everyone.
	Yeah, I know.
	Why?
	I wish I could tell you.
	Is it my.
	Would you like the answer?
	Or maybe I just have too much of an estrogenic nature.
	Like I'm, you know.
	My wife holds people accountable.
	She's very feminine.
	Did you like the answer?
	Yes, please tell me.
	All right.
	So the reason that you do not hold people accountable is they will not like you if you do.
	Excuses, because if you don't give them excuses, they won't like you.
	Nailed it.
	The relationship is at threat if you hold people accountable.
	In other words, as you know, the only way that you can pretend to have a relationship with these kinds of people is if you affirm that they're victims, they're not really responsible and you trace everything back to their childhood and you give them all these dominoes.
	And then you say, well, they never grow up.
	Well, of course they don't grow up because they don't have people around them who hold them accountable.
	And if anyone tries to hold them accountable, they'll probably just cut them right off.
	Right.
	What's the relationship?
	What's the status of your relationship with your father and your mother?
Witness Curb Stomped 00:10:23
	My father has passed away and my mother and I are working on things.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	And your stepmother?
	Uh, I have nothing in the world does she could be on fire, like with zero relationship, zero, no interest whatsoever.
	So, uh, and does she uh their step yeah she step nieces?
	Yeah, sorry, I don't know what they would be.
	What are they?
	Step something with your dad or kids with some other guy?
	No, she never she had kids with some other guy, yeah.
	And she she does stalk me and try to like find out things about my life.
	And she's very intrusive and very like I've had to, you know, threaten her to keep her away from my space because there's no room for like she has this delusional idea about this wonderful stepmother that she was.
	And it's so creepy and weird.
	But I can hold her on.
	He died in 2023.
	Uh-huh.
	Okay.
	What did he die of?
	He fell and hit his head.
	Oh, were there witnesses?
	Yeah.
	In fact, she recorded it.
	And he had a life insurance, an accidental life insurance policy.
	So instead of helping him, she recorded it.
	And then she didn't even.
	Hang on.
	Sorry.
	Sorry.
	That's this wild story.
	Okay.
	So he fell and hit his head and she whipped out her phone to document that it was an accident so she could get more insurance rather than calling for help.
	That's right.
	And then she, she, he said he didn't want to go in a hospital, even though he had a huge welt on the side of his head and was not coherent.
	And she ended up phoning my sister and they spent almost two hours on the phone trying to convince my dad to go to the hospital.
	And then finally, her husband said, call an effing ambulance.
	And because he knew.
	And like, then she put on these, all these tears and crying about how upset she was that, you know, that he had died when in fact, like, she wait, wait, hang on, hang on.
	So they called the ambulance or what happened?
	He went to the hospital and within 24 hours, he had died because the bleeding on his brain.
	And is there the belief that if he'd gotten there a couple of hours earlier, he might have been salvageable?
	I don't know.
	We didn't, we weren't in the province.
	And I wasn't sure exactly what to do.
	Like, I'm of the firm belief that it was death through neglect, but I don't really know what to do about it.
	And, you know, like.
	Sorry, what to do about what?
	Your sister?
	Sorry, your stepmother or the hospital or what?
	My stepmother and my dad or any of any of the mess.
	Like, I'm just honestly a little bit relieved that, you know, not that my dad died, but just a little bit relieved that I don't have to be around their toxic sickness and stuff.
	Like, I'm sure she neglected my dad to the point of death if she didn't, in fact, actually do everything she could possibly do to cause it.
	And specifically, she got really serious about it when I said I would move home and take care of him.
	And then she has this will that apparently we've witnessed.
	She's going to move home and take care of him, not because of anything to do with the accident, because that was pretty rapid, but because he had ill health in other areas.
	You were saying the blood thinners or things like that?
	Yeah, within, yeah, I mentioned the blood thinners, and then I had said that I would go there to take care of him.
	And within two weeks, he had died.
	That seems a little sinister.
	And I don't know.
	I mean, I'm obviously no lawyer, but it seems to me that if somebody has fallen and grievously injured themselves and you are recording and chatting on the phone rather than calling an ambulance, I mean, if somebody's just taking a brain injury and you say, would you like to go to the hospital?
	I mean, that doesn't make any sense because the, you know, the brother has a brain injury.
	So he's not going to be particularly coherent.
	So you, I don't know.
	I don't know what the law is about.
	Are you supposed to help people who are dying in front of you if they're in your home and they have no other source of help?
	I think you kind of are.
	Yeah.
	I mean, and then she essentially ended up cashing in selling the house and blowing it all on cocaine.
	And now she's like shitting herself to death from liver damage.
	And I don't care.
	God, wait, Sorry.
	This is just so this is like a cavalcade of like Spanish coked up soap opera hell, right?
	So, so how long was your father married to this woman for?
	Uh, they married when I was two.
	So I think they were like marriage almost, well, let me think.
	I don't know.
	Can't do the math right now.
	Sorry.
	Yeah, I believe they were married when I was two.
	So that would be almost 40 years because he died, I think, before their 40th year anniversary.
	So he was married.
	I mean, was she a drug addict in the past or during the marriage?
	Or how did she get?
	I mean, people don't usually start drugs in their 60s or 50s.
	Well, she was a big speed freak before she met my dad.
	And then they were like, apparently these holier than now, born-again, whatevers.
	And they like my dad, what had happened was in my dad's early life, he got into a bar fight in New York and he ended up punching somebody.
	He essentially just got into a fight and he curb stomped somebody to death and they died.
	And so he ended up in prison.
	What?
	Oh, my God.
	This is insane.
	What are you talking about?
	He killed the guy.
	Yes, in his youth.
	Well, he was 18.
	In his youth?
	So what?
	Well, yeah.
	And it really freaked him out.
	And so he ended up.
	Oh, it was difficult for him?
	Yes, it was difficult.
	Oh, yeah.
	The murderer is having trouble with his actions.
	Yeah, and it did.
	He really did.
	And so he went like almost two decades without even, like, without even, he didn't even swear.
	He wore his seatbelt.
	But he curbstomped a guy to death.
	So it wasn't accidental.
	How on earth was he ever out of prison?
	That's at least second degree, isn't it?
	Yes.
	What happened was the only witness to the murder was murdered.
	Not by your father, I hope.
	No, but from what I understand, it was his best friend.
	Wait, your father's best friend or the victims?
	My father's best friend.
	So your father's best friend was the only witness to your father's murder and he died how?
	Well, what happened was there was a group of them.
	They were all in a bar and they were, they like my dad was making jokes about, you know, African Americans.
	And this African American was like, you're not very funny.
	And so my dad's like, let's talk about this outside.
	And so his group of guys and their group of guys went outside and they got into this huge fight.
	And then my dad, the fight was over.
	My dad was trying to leave.
	And the guy's like, you're not going anywhere.
	And so he drew, this is obviously, this is hearsay.
	This is a story that I heard that my dad told me.
	He dragged him out of the car.
	And my dad said that was it.
	He was just, it was game on the car.
	The African-American, he was, he was not done fighting my dad, like, because they had had their fight and then everybody was kind of going their own ways.
	And this guy dragged my dad out of the backseat of a car to try to continue to beat him up.
	And my dad decided that that wasn't going to happen.
	And then he said that he doesn't even really remember, but he knows that he ended up beating him.
	And then, you know, the guy got curb stomped and died.
	And then they all said, your dad curb stomped him and died.
	And then the man died.
	Yes, my dad curb stomped the guy and the guy died.
	So murdered the guy.
	Yes.
	And then so they all drove off.
	And then one of the people that were in my dad's group told the cops that it was my dad that killed him.
	So then in that group, one of the guys, one of the other guys killed the guy that was supposed to testify at my dad's trial.
	So they didn't have a witness and their case fell apart because they couldn't prove who.
	I don't believe that for a single New York minute.
	They couldn't determine who I don't believe that story.
	I'm not saying you're lying because I'm sure you believe it.
	But I personally don't believe that story at all.
	Okay.
	Who would be the most likely person to kill the witness?
	My dad.
	Right.
	But he was in prison.
	He didn't get out until after the guy was killed.
	So he wasn't out on bail or anything, right?
	No.
	Okay.
	Did he get any communication with his friend?
	Of course, we don't know, right?
	So long ago.
	Okay.
	So his friend decided to kill, his other friend decided to kill your dad's friend, who was the witness.
	Yes.
	Jesus, what a bunch of psychos.
	Yeah.
	See, my mating strategy, it worked.
	I'm alive.
	Okay, not, I mean, I know we're making a little bit light of it, so I don't mean to come down hard on you, but your father's a murderer and his best friend was murdered by one of your father's friends in order to keep your father out of prison.
	Yes.
	And why was this other friend the only witness?
	I mean, weren't the black guys there too?
	Yeah.
	Well, they, I'm not 100% certain.
	He was just the only person that was willing to testify.
	So.
	Pretty sure the black guys would have testified if they saw their friend get curb stumped.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	So there's holes in the story.
	Could be.
	I mean, I didn't get the police report, but I do know that this friend showed up later in our lives and did corroborate the story.
	And they, you know.
	Sorry, the friend who killed the friend.
	Yes.
	And the friend who killed the friend, I suppose, never got caught.
	No, he never did.
	So your dad knew who killed his friend, but never went to the police because, of course.
	Okay.
	So your father was a murderer and he hung out with murderers.
	Yeah, and he married one.
	You mean if the sort of defined by bookended head injuries, right?
	Yeah.
	Oh, that's a good point.
He Became the Bad Guy 00:12:13
	Yeah.
	And so with regards to his wife, you're saying that the murderer had something to do with her not taking him to the hospital in that kind of way?
	Or maybe messing with his medication?
	Yeah, I think she was messing with his medication because I think she had intentions of doing that.
	I think it was intentional because, you know, like I did make it very clear to her.
	And I'm obviously not a nurse either, but it was, it was obvious from two provinces away.
	Oh, that bad stuff was happening.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So when did you leave home?
	15.
	At 15.
	And where did you go?
	I got engaged to a drug dealer and I muled drugs across the country and grew marijuana in British Columbia.
	Okay.
	That tracks.
	And what was your relationship with your father when you left home?
	What was it like?
	I assume not good.
	No, no.
	My dad and I were good.
	We were close.
	Close.
	Yeah.
	I mean, like, we talked on the phone all the time and he would give me advice about life, which clearly, you know, I mean, like, obviously, like, in the end, I end, I, for the most part, did take your advice, but, or I'm trying to.
	I'm trying to.
	What do you mean?
	I mean, like, I found your philosophy in 2011 and I just hung on for dear life and trying to ride the wave out of the storm.
	So 2011, and I appreciate you being a long-term listener.
	And when did we last talk, you and I?
	I think in 2022, 2021, I think 2021.
	Okay.
	Nice to hear from you again.
	So your husband, I guess your ex-husband, other than being a screamer, did he have any other serious moral issues in the way that your father did?
	Yes, he did.
	Yes.
	He also liked to be worshipped.
	He was as well very godlike, also narcissistic.
	He was, yeah.
	So he, um, he's a brilliant man.
	He's brilliant.
	He just uses his powers for evil.
	Do you mean like criminal evil or just dysfunctional evil?
	Well, criminal evil once upon a time in his younger life, but since he's gotten to an older age, he's, I mean, and it depends on what you consider criminal.
	Like, I think there's moral crimes and then there's like law crimes.
	So he always skirted the line.
	He skirted the line perfectly and beautifully.
	You know, he did things that were wrong, but not illegal.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	So more moral crimes rather than illegal stuff.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	How did your father, how did your father handle the fact that he murdered a guy and was only free because his best friend was also murdered by his other friend?
	No, his best friend did the murdering of the guy who was the rat, essentially.
	I think he, well, he didn't, like I said, he spent about two decades sort of trying to, you know, straighten himself out.
	And he, like, he was very, he, he went extremely moral.
	He went from being totally immoral to wildly moral.
	Like, no, no, no, he didn't.
	No, because he's, he married a very corrupt woman who then he allowed to turn him against his own children.
	So that's not moral, right?
	Well, he never did actually get turned against us.
	What he did was he became a shell of the man that he was.
	What you said, and I'm sorry if I misunderstood, and I'm not, I'm not trying to catch you out.
	I'm just telling you why I think that.
	You said she poisoned his mind against his own children.
	Yes.
	So generally, if somebody gets poisoned, they're poisoned.
	So my understanding was that she was successful to some degree in turning him against his own children.
	Yes.
	So betraying your children for the sake of, I assume, sexual access, since it wasn't the quality of her character that he was with her for.
	So betraying your children for the sake of having sex with a crazy woman doesn't strike me as excessively moral, if that makes sense.
	I think you're right.
	And you won't get any argument from me.
	So he was in your life until he died in your late 30s, right?
	No.
	Early 40s?
	Early 40s.
	Okay.
	Why was he why was this murderer who was corrupt and married to a ghastly woman and so on?
	Why was he in your life?
	Well, he was in my life because I had been very, I had been indoctrinated from a very young age about the cult of the family.
	So, I mean, the very opposite of everything that you say, like, for instance, when we were young, there was seven of us children.
	And if my sister did something wrong and I took the blame for it, then neither of us got in trouble.
	But if I went to my dad and told on her, I would get her punishment.
	So, I mean, we were wild.
	We were like, you know, we were so far.
	Your father punished the rat, like the rats punished that got him out of prison.
	Yes.
	So that's corrupt, right?
	That is corrupt.
	Yeah.
	But I thought it was all about like that.
	But you could have been all about family if you fled at 15.
	Well, I was, in my mind, I was chased off by my stepmother.
	And, but in truth, I was forced into an undesirable relationship for the benefit of my father.
	What?
	What's that?
	Well, I mean, yeah, like the heroin addict that I was engaged to was, you know, selling drugs with my dad.
	So.
	Okay, what?
	I don't know.
	You said he became super moral, but he was selling drugs with the guy who you claim was your fiancé when you were 15.
	Yes, but when I was really young, my dad, I guess he never really was very moral, but he appeared moral.
	Like, you know, he would.
	No, no, I'm just going with what you just said.
	You said he became super moral, and then I find out that he's pimping out his daughter to a drug dealer when she's 14 or 15 years of age.
	Yeah, but the time between two and maybe 14, my dad was, you know, he was a very hard worker and he never broke a law.
	Like, you know, he didn't break the speed limit.
	He always wore a seatbelt.
	He held the door.
	He tried to do that.
	Was he not selling drugs?
	Not until I was 14.
	Like, what happened was so you don't know what the hell he was doing earlier because you were a little kid.
	No, I do know.
	I do know because essentially what happened was he had the incident where he killed the guy in New York and then he straightened out his life and tried to live like everybody else.
	He wanted to, you know, as soon as a normal life wasn't possible for him, that was the only thing he wanted.
	So he doubled down on making as many good choices as he could possibly make.
	And he wanted to like exemplify morality.
	And he definitely didn't want to go back to prison.
	So there was no drugs involved.
	There was no, you know, my dad never did cocaine.
	He sold it.
	He used to say all the time, you never get high on your own supply.
	He, you know, he didn't like, I don't know exactly.
	It's hard to explain.
	But when I know what your father was not doing or was doing from two to 14.
	He actually, he ran a helpline for male survivors of child abuse.
	And he was like counseling.
	He adopted kids that had been from difficult homes and he was a foster parent.
	He was a foster parent.
	Yeah.
	And he used to take camps.
	How do you get to be a foster parent if you've been charged with murder?
	Well, because my dad was a Canadian citizen and the murder happened in New York.
	Well, I assume he lied about it then and said that he had no criminal record.
	Or I guess, I mean, being charged is different, of course, from being convicted.
	I get that.
	Right.
	Okay.
	And how was he qualified to give psychological advice?
	I think just because he, I don't really know.
	I don't think he was qualified.
	I mean, did he become a psychologist or a social worker or did he take training?
	No, he just he, no, he just tried to give these kids in their youth a chance and an opportunity that he never had.
	And in fact, actually, there is a lot of grown men that say that for what it's worth, my dad taught them to be to be a man, you know, to be a man of your word and to like protect women and to like there was good qualities about my dad, which makes it really difficult.
	No, I don't.
	I don't.
	I don't get this.
	I don't, I don't, you can believe it.
	I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't subscribe to this duality of human nature.
	He was the best of guys.
	He was the worst of guys.
	It's like, no, if he's a bad guy, he's a bad guy.
	But you understand, this is why you bond with these bad guys, is you think there's good guys in there.
	You're right.
	And he was a bad guy.
	So how, what happened when you were 14 that he became this kind of evil drug law dealer guy?
	Well, he ended up getting, I don't know, just one day he decided that he was going to hell and he was going to take everybody with him.
	So he went into the bathroom, shaved his head, put on a leather vest, bought himself a Harley-Davidson motorcycle and started selling cocaine.
	So was that always going to happen?
	Maybe.
	I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that we moved to, and when we transferred, oh, sorry, no towns.
	When we transferred out to another province, he just essentially got to see his wife up front.
	And I think that the reality of it, he could not handle.
	Because like his children.
	Okay, sorry.
	Sorry.
	It's just, it's a little scattered for me.
	So he woke up, shaved his head, decided to become a drug dealer.
	Yeah.
	You say that's because he understood something about his wife.
	Yeah.
	Like, so he had drug us all to this other province and we were all going to be a family and things were going to be great.
	And he was going to be around more.
	And his wife was just nitpicking over every single thing.
	And his kids were miserable and there was constant fighting in the house.
	And he knew that he was never going to be able to salvage it.
	He wasn't going to be able to fix it.
	I think he wanted to be around his kids and he wanted to like enjoy them and sort of we were going to kind of, you know, but it, but that was something that was never ever going to be possible because if we did something well or good, it drove her insane.
	And if we did something bad or wrong, it hurt my dad.
	So we got everybody kind of got caught in the crossfire and there was no salvageable reality.
	So he gave up.
	He kind of had a like a bit of a misled.
	I mean, I mean, what, what are you, what are you basing this theory on?
	Just, I saw it.
	I saw it with my own eyes.
	Like, you know, I mean, no, no, no.
	You don't see people's motives that way.
	People don't come with subtitles or title or anything like that.
	So what did you, I mean, how do you know that this was what happened?
	I think because I remember him begging her, which was me witnessing my dad, you know, in a very pathetic sort of demeanor, which I hadn't really ever witnessed before because my dad was the man of his house, you know, I mean, and like he very much was adored and treated well.
	Like as soon as my dad pulled in the driveway, all the kids were outside to greet him.
	We carried in his bags.
	We cleaned out his truck.
	We hung at his feet.
	We were like excited.
	You know what I mean?
	And so, and the role he demanded.
	That's what he demanded.
Supportive Wife, Destroyer Of Relationships 00:06:28
	Yeah.
	And the role that she played was she was supposed to be the supportive wife.
	And whatever he said went.
	But when he said this is the way things are going to be, she could not handle anything that would benefit the relationship between my dad and his kids.
	She had to destroy it.
	She was un, you know, like it was.
	Evil and corrupt.
	Yes.
	So it's okay.
	And your dad was, your dad was evil and corrupt.
	He obviously was, yeah, because he let it happen.
	And I, like I said, he tried, he begged her.
	No, no, no, he didn't.
	No, he didn't let it happen.
	He chose her.
	Yeah, he chose her.
	That's right.
	Well, he wasn't like just things, you know, like some glacier.
	Well, Slim Glacier came along and took out her cabin in the woods.
	He just let it happen.
	I mean, like, he made it happen.
	He chose her.
	He chose her.
	He chose to stay married to her for 40 years.
	Yes, he did.
	And it cost him, well, his life and his relationship with all of his children.
	And oh my God, the sympathy here.
	Bro.
	The sympathy, the sympathy, the sympathy.
	You're really trying to get the moral philosopher to side with the murderer who pimped out his daughter to a drug dealer.
	You trying to get me on the sympathy side?
	Are you crazy?
	No, I'm trying to keep.
	I'm trying to deploy the skills that I have because this, like I said, it was a necessary part of survival.
	This is me, the stop doing it.
	Stop trying to get me.
	I'm sympathy for the murderer.
	Yeah, you and you know, the dog.
	Yes, my daughter, she can spot this.
	She does not put up with this from me.
	Why do you keep doing it?
	I'm working on trying to figure it out.
	Like, I'm coming to terms with it.
	It's, yeah, I mean, I needed people to like me.
	If they didn't like me, obviously, like, I would die.
	So, it's, and I'm like, I'm 77 in agreeableness, if that, if that makes sense to you as far as personality goes.
	So, I'm, I'm, I got a struggle here.
	Well, you have a struggle here.
	You're, you have no trouble disagreeing with me.
	So, it may be that, yes.
	Okay, that's fair enough.
	And I have changed my relationships based on your advice.
	No, no, but I'm getting no.
	So, the reason, and listen, I appreciate you bringing all this stuff up.
	I do.
	So, the reason, do you know why I'm bringing all this stuff or asking all these questions?
	So, you can, I'm not sure.
	I am pretending to be the daughter's boyfriend.
	I am.
	These are the questions that a quality man or his father or his family or his grandfather or uncle will ask you.
	Right.
	And you said that your family drove good guys away from you.
	Yes.
	What do you think you're going to do with a good guy who's interested in your daughter and you stop pulling this crap?
	No, no, I definitely know that I am going to have faith in her and trust her because when she's interviewing these guys, you're dodging.
	You're dodging.
	Let's get back to my question.
	Okay.
	A good man who has no murderers in the family, no drug dealers, no corrupt, evil Grimm's fairy tale stepmothers.
	No, hey, you can have my daughter just help me self-drugs.
	She's 14, right?
	And this evil, stone evil.
	It's stone fucking evil.
	All of it.
	And you are laughing and making excuses and defenses and having sympathy and trying to make it a cutesy story about.
	And listen, I mean, the sympathy I have is enormous.
	But you called me as a mother saying, how do I find a good guy for my daughter?
	A good guy is going to ask you about your life.
	And what is he?
	How is he going to react if you pull this stuff on him?
	Yeah, that's a good point.
	How is he going to react if you pull this stuff on him?
	Well, I mean, I think I'm not really, I'm not 100% certain.
	Like, I have been telling, I don't know.
	My contribution is to advise my kids to read real-time relationships.
	I tried to buy peaceful parenting on your website and it went all the way.
	No, no, it's free.
	You don't need to buy it.
	It's free.
	Yeah, but I wanted a paper copy so that they could keep notes.
	Yeah, it's way pricey to get to ship to Canada.
	I'm sorry about that.
	It's not much.
	Okay, but let's not.
	I appreciate the peacefulparenting.com, but come on.
	A normal guy from a good family hears you talking about your family in this way.
	Yeah, but and how is he going to react?
	Yeah, that's the problem.
	But the way I talk about it is the problem, but there's no problem.
	How is he going to react?
	I will get an answer from this.
	Very badly.
	Okay.
	What's he gonna, what's he gonna think?
	I need you to get outside of yourself, and you'll have a chance to listen back to this, of course.
	I need to get outside of yourself and be on the receiving end of this torrent of evil that you endured and defend and praise.
	Oh, yeah, not good.
	I would probably like be trying to, you know, raise my daughter away from him as fast as possible.
	You would hang on.
	You would probably be trying to get your daughter away from him.
	Sorry, I don't understand.
	Like him and his family, like if this were something, if this, if I were sitting at their table and hearing this story, then I would be like, there's so much like rooted dysfunction and so many patterns and so many problems, like you don't even know what's coming.
	This is a bad situation.
	Well, I mean, with all due sympathy, you know, to what you suffered as a child, which was horrendous and all the more horrendous because he demanded worship, which he demanded because of self-hatred, reasons of self-hatred.
	But anyway, it's not, but it's not what happened to you.
	It's how you describe it.
	Yeah, I see that as the problem, yes.
Why You Sympathize Too Much 00:14:58
	Because you have a lot of made-up stories about why people did what they did that portray them in a sympathetic light.
	You know, you told me about your father's difficulties with his mother and abandonment issues and how he was put upon by his wife and, you know, she was messing with his medication, perhaps, and didn't help him when he fell and so on.
	You give me all of that stuff.
	And then I find out he's a murderer and a drug dealer.
	That's really fucking disorienting.
	How did you end up?
	Okay, how old was the heroin dealer when you were 14 or 15?
	He was 25.
	Okay.
	How did you end up in a relationship with this criminal when you were barely out of puberty?
	Well, my dad arranged the relationship.
	And why?
	Because he had a good price for cocaine.
	So he did, is it unfair to say he pimped out his daughter for drugs?
	No.
	No, it's not unfair or no, that's not correct.
	No, it's not unfair.
	Okay, so how and this drove you out of the house, right?
	Well, yes.
	Yeah, I had sort of moved out a little bit before, and then I moved back home all within the span of a year and then ended up in the relationship with the guy that I ended up moving to Vancouver with.
	So.
	Okay.
	So he was, if you had sex, he would have been a statutory rapist, if I understand the laws correctly.
	Yeah, that's accurate.
	And your dad facilitated all of this in return for a better price on drugs.
	Yes.
	Fuck him.
	I hope he burns in hell.
	Right.
	And this is where I'm baffled, honestly.
	I mean, I'm not baffled because you have this perspective.
	I'm baffled that you have this perspective after listening to me for 15 years.
	Well, just to be clear, a lot of things have changed.
	Like, this is quite the trek from where I was to where I am.
	No, no.
	But you're talking to me as if you think I might agree with you.
	Okay, except that I think we could consider in this picture that my kids are amazing and they're smart and intelligent.
	And that's.
	That's not the issue, though.
	That's not what we're talking about.
	My concern is that you're going to drive quality men away from your kids, quality partners, with this pretty dissociated babble about sympathy for your father, because it indicates a complete absence of moral compass.
	Now, please understand, I'm not saying you don't have a moral compass.
	I'm not saying that at all.
	But what I'm saying is that in your description of your family, it's chaotic almost beyond words, and there's no moral center to any of it.
	You're right.
	And I do not have to meant the moral compass required, which is why, unfortunately, and my kids have sensed this and they have taken over.
	You know, I mean, essentially.
	Where is like, I don't want to talk about your kids yet?
	Where is your moral compass with regards to your father?
	Well, yeah, I realize it's a skew.
	I do realize that, which is why I No, but you don't.
	Yes, because I know.
	Don't tell me that.
	Don't tell me that because you're telling me the story for the last hour with no moral compass.
	And then you're saying, yes, but I know I don't have a moral compass.
	Then why didn't you say to me, listen, when I get, listen, Steph, when I start telling you about my father, I have no moral compass.
	So prepare to be taken on a very confusing ride.
	You didn't say that?
	Okay, it's not just my father.
	I have my moral compass 100% is skewed.
	I recognize that.
	And I also see the consequences.
	As soon as I don't hold these people to account, then I am agreeing to their choices and behaviors.
	And then I'm susceptible to being persuaded into making poor choices.
	Okay, so why is it hard for you to say my father was an evil murderer, narcissistic, demanded praise, pimped me out for drugs when I was underage?
	My father was an evil fucking guy.
	My father was an evil fucking guy.
	Okay, so why is that difficult to say rather than the last hour?
	And this is not a criticism.
	I'm genuinely curious.
	Like, why is that?
	Again, if you were some newbie, right?
	But I mean, you've listened to me for a while.
	And look, just because you've listened to me doesn't mean you have to agree with me, but you have to at least be conscious of the fact that you would be disagreeing with me and tell me that, right?
	So why is it tough for you to say the facts about your father rather than the sympathy that you portray towards him?
	I don't know because I think I would like it to be nuanced.
	I would like it to be difficult.
	I would like these choices to be based on the same thing.
	Sorry to interrupt.
	I understand that we do things because we like them.
	My question is, why do you like it?
	And this is not a critical question.
	It really isn't.
	I genuinely do want to know why you can't say, my father was evil and I barely survived him.
	My father was evil and I barely survived him.
	Right.
	But why is that tough for you to say if it's not pointed out?
	I he also chose an evil stepmother for you, who basically was your mother.
	Yes.
	You did immeasurable harm to his children.
	You said there were seven kids.
	Is that right?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So all the other kids were massively harmed and saw you being pimped out for drugs at the age of 14 or 15.
	So why is it tough for you to be honest and direct about the evils of your father and stepmother?
	I don't know.
	I'm not 100% certain.
	It's something I'm definitely working on.
	Like, I think.
	No, no, you're not working on it.
	I mean, maybe you are, but it's not part of this conversation because you came in full guns blazing with sympathy for your father and laughing a little and so on.
	And again, it's not a criticism, but okay.
	Would you like a theory?
	Yeah, please.
	Yes.
	I think that you are terrified of being judged by your father.
	Okay.
	That if you say he was evil, then people will judge you by him.
	Whereas if you say, well, he was a victim, I have sympathy, then people would judge you less negatively.
	Guilty association.
	I mean, I don't know.
	It's a possibility, but there's some reason why.
	Because you're not talking to a normie here, right?
	You're talking to a moral philosopher who's going to have very clear ideas.
	And the dissociation was such that you needed me to point this out.
	Like you were running full tilt into my sort of immovable wall of moral judgment because you needed this, because this is related to the kind of man that your daughter can marry.
	It's directly related.
	So there's some reason because you called me up and you come in with all of this wild information and stories and sympathies and so on.
	And of course, deep down, you know that I'm going to have to bring you up short.
	I mean, I don't really have a choice.
	I have bring you up short on that.
	So if you say, my father was an evil man and I barely survived him, I mean, it's one thing to be a pimp.
	That's pretty bad.
	It's another thing to be a pimp of underage children.
	It's quite another thing to be a pimp of your own underage children, my friend.
	That's nauseating.
	That's revolting.
	That is about as evil as a human being can be.
	To pimp out your own children to get cheaper drugs.
	So if you accept how evil he was, there's great sadness there.
	Great sadness, I think.
	And I'm not sure where their sadness is.
	Yeah, I think it's.
	Is it because he stayed in your life far too long?
	Is it because having him in your life, maybe it's the loss.
	Oh, maybe sorry to interrupt, but maybe it's the loss of you left when you were 15.
	He was still in your life until he died, and you were still trying to help him and save him and protect him and rescue him and help him and all of that.
	So from 15 to 40, that's a quarter century.
	And because he was in your life, you couldn't get a good guy at all.
	And that was the price.
	The price of having your father in your life was the man you married, the brilliant man who skirted the law, who's your daughter's father, which you said was a shit show and a chaos fest and so on, right?
	Yes.
	So maybe what I think that I know, and this is, I think, the essence of the call, is that you hung on to your father, which conditioned the men who were available to you.
	Right.
	I knew a woman.
	I won't get into any details, but just to give you an example.
	I knew a woman many years ago who had what I would believe was a truly evil father.
	And she was like, hey, you want to come for lunch?
	And I'm like, I don't, in fact.
	And I sort of laid out my case.
	I was in my 27 or 28 or something like that, maybe 26.
	And I sort of laid out my case as to why I would never break bread with a man like this.
	And she went anyway.
	And I stopped spending time with her.
	Not out of, you know, it wasn't any hatred.
	It wasn't any like gross.
	It was just like, I can't.
	Like, I can't.
	If people don't have self-protection, you can't go on the safari of life with them.
	They're just going to get mauled and maybe get you mauled as well.
	So the question then becomes: 15 years ago, you were 29?
	Yes.
	Okay, you come into my shows and talking about the voluntary family dissociating from evildoers if they won't repent or reform and your father could never repent or reform.
	No.
	You were 15 years after he pimped you out for drugs.
	You were 29.
	You start listening to my show.
	Then your entire 30s could have been very much different, right?
	You could have had a better stepfather for your children.
	So, and of course, I was doing call-in shows.
	You could have called in anytime.
	I'm glad you are now, but.
	So, why hang on to your father and his evil bride?
	Well, it wasn't just my dad.
	I was surrounded.
	My entire family are sociopaths and narcissists.
	So all the more reason to get away.
	So why stay?
	And I say this with sympathy.
	I'm just trying to understand.
	Like, why would you stay in this absolute hell of a familial and social environment?
	Well, like I said, to some degree, I think that I was like cult inspired.
	But then the other thing was, you know, you had count.
	Hang on.
	You had counter information.
	That's why I'm not, I wouldn't hold you.
	Again, if you were just someone calling in for the first time ever or had no idea who I was or started listening three days ago, but 15 years, you had exposure to the voluntary family for 15 years.
	Yeah.
	And so I was adopting, I was adopting and coming to terms with and understanding your material.
	And I had to be able to like, I had to be that would drag your audience in a certain direction.
	I would follow.
	And then those additional virtues or perspectives would come up against the evil people in my life.
	And then I would have a battle and a fight and we would rail against each other.
	And then I would try to, you know, piece myself together and move in another direction.
	Like, you know, this is an evolution.
	It doesn't, it doesn't just happen where it's like one day you understand and realize that you're completely surrounded in a viper's nest.
	You have to untangle your life from all of those.
	No, Sorry.
	Can't let that stand.
	So, of course, philosophy is an evolution.
	You don't need to lecture me about that.
	And secondly, the reason I'm pushing back hard with sympathy is because it's been 15 years and you're still defending him.
	And you're still broadcasting sympathy for him.
	So, hey, I'm fine with an evolution.
	Sure, I get that.
	I'm not saying, well, you know, I've been listening to Steph for three days.
	I'm ripping out all of the social appendages from my body.
	I get all of that.
	But 15 years down the road, you're still defending him.
	You're still trying to elicit sympathy for him in public to me.
	Right.
	So don't talk to me about an evolution because that's not an evolution.
	That's stagnant.
	That's paralysis.
	Well, I have been busy.
	There's not just philosophy that I'm doing.
	All right.
	Listen, I'm getting a little impatient here because I'm really trying to help and I'm trying to give you sympathy here.
	But if you're just going to make excuses like, well, I was busy, that's bullshit.
	No, I'm saying bullshit.
	Let me tell you why that's bullshit.
	Because you had all the time in the world to fight with people, right?
	You just told me, oh, I would bring one of your perspectives to my family and we'd fight and we'd have these and I'd try and save them and there'd be these battles.
	So you had time for all that, right?
	Yeah.
	So don't tell me you were busy.
	You were busy fighting.
	You had time.
	Well, I've seen the dry land.
	I was trying to bring people with me.
	And I get that.
	I understand that.
	But you're still trying to bring people with you.
	And it's been 15 years.
	No, I'm not.
	So hang on.
	What did you say to me at the very beginning of this conversation?
	I listened very well.
	I don't have any questions.
	Hang on.
	You said to me, well, Steph, I'm super smart.
	I'm in the top 10%.
	I can't find a guy who's smart enough.
	No, I said I'm an intellectual.
	I know that you can't.
	As soon as you think you're smart, you're not.
	I'm not, I'm not saying I'm smart.
	No, no, don't gaslight me.
	You said to me, we can play it back later.
	You said to me, I'm in the top 10%.
	I'm very smart.
	And I can't find a guy who keeps up with me.
	Then you said, oh, wait, I did.
	Well, there was one guy.
	No, no, there were two.
	One guy I talked about with physics for talking to him when we made a joke about let's get physical.
	Do you remember all of that?
	Yes, I do.
	Okay, so you're telling me you're smart.
	So I'm going to hold you to the standards of a smart person.
	I'm going to say, why would you do things that are dumb?
	It's not because you're dumb.
	You're not dumb at all.
	You're smart.
	I fully accept that.
	So it's a reasonable thing because you're saying, hey, I can't find a guy who's smart.
A Parent's Influence 00:15:11
	Okay.
	Do you think I'm kind of smart?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So one thing that has to happen with smart people is they're going to challenge you, right?
	Right.
	So what am I doing?
	I'm challenging you in the same way that a suitor of your daughter is going to challenge you.
	Right.
	And if you say, well, I can't find a smart guy, and then you're talking to a smart guy and you fight him tooth and nail and lecture him and dismiss him and make up excuses and nonsense.
	Well, that's why you can't find a smart guy.
	Yeah, that makes sense.
	Because if you think a guy's smart, you should listen.
	I don't mean agree, but don't make up silly excuses, right?
	Because all of the muscles that you use to make excuses for your family, you're now using to make excuses for you.
	Right.
	Well, it's an evolution, Steph.
	Didn't you know philosophy is an evolution?
	Well, Steph, I was just busy, don't you know, for 15 years, I was just too busy to not spend time with my family.
	No, I wasn't spending time with my family.
	That's what I was.
	I know you were.
	But then you said, well, I was, I was, I've been busy.
	I don't just do philosophy, you know, Steph.
	I also sleep.
	I'm selfish that way.
	I also poop.
	And occasionally I'll have a swig of OJ, sometimes even with pulp.
	And I watched a movie in 2022.
	Oh, how selfish.
	I could have been doing philosophy and I watched a movie.
	Are you going to condemn me for that?
	And I took a nap.
	Wait, no, I didn't.
	I thought I did.
	So why did you stick with your family?
	Because you're going to have to answer that to a suitor of your daughters.
	I'm trying to help her because that's what she asked me for.
	Yes.
	You're going to have to explain why you hung around a bunch of sociopaths and criminals and murderers and pimps.
	Right.
	You got to answer that.
	If you can't answer that, your daughter can't get a quality guy.
	Unless she separates from you, which I don't want her to do.
	Well, she did tell me that if it comes to it, she will.
	There's going to be strict.
	So you better come up with a good answer as to why you rode pimp, drug dealing, murderous dad into the grave 20 years after you could have left or 15 years.
	Well, I think it's something to do with me not wanting to face the consequences of my immoral actions by proxy.
	All right.
	Go ahead.
	So, like, if I give him excuses, then I can have them too.
	Well, sure.
	I mean, I understand that for sure.
	But what do you need excuses for?
	For marrying the wrong man, for wasting my life with people that had zero virtue, for putting them ahead of my children and costing them a great deal of peace, for not taking the hard road and searching out people with virtue that will challenge me and making myself comfortable in those situations because I deserve to be there.
	I'm sorry.
	I'm sorry.
	I appreciate the emotion and I'm not trying to get you to stay out of the emotion, but I just missed the last bit of that sentence.
	Forcing my way into situations with people that have virtue, not forcing my way.
	Sorry, that you know what I mean?
	Like forcing myself to go.
	Yes, forcing myself to go.
	So, the excuses that you give to your dead father are excuses that you kind of need for yourself, if I understand this correctly.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So, when you excuse your father, there's an implicit demand to your children that they also have to excuse you.
	Yeah, because you know, I like I say to them things like, you know, I realize I've made all these mistakes and we do talk about it openly.
	And my kids, like I said, they also listen to philosophy and they really don't put up with me.
	And I don't ask them to.
	I never asked them to.
	They've been, they've had the freedom to speak their mind and come to their own conclusions and decisions.
	I've given them your material.
	I've given them Ayn Rand's material, so on and so forth.
	And they call me out on it.
	And I do my best to be accountable in that regard.
	But I think I think I want to accept them.
	I want to accept them so that I can also be accepted at that bar or at that level.
	I think I maybe am not as confident in my own personal virtue.
	So you stayed loyal to evildoers to some degree at the expense of your children.
	And I say this, my friend, with the full and deep realization that you are a far, far better parent than your parents were.
	So I want to recognize that.
	And I'm not putting you in the same category, right?
	But to some degree, it has cost your children for you to stay loyal to a crime gang.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So let's say that you've done that.
	How many kids do you have?
	I have one biological child, and I raised my son from the age of three.
	Where's he from?
	He's, what do you mean, like, he's got a different mother than my daughter.
	Is that your ex-husband's son?
	Yes.
	And he's staying with you, not his father.
	No, he's grown.
	He's living on his own.
	He bought his own house and he's engaged and he's raised him.
	How old was he when he separated from his dad?
	He was 16.
	Oh, okay.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	Got it.
	All right.
	Okay.
	So let's just talk about your daughter then.
	So it has cost your daughter to some degree.
	And again, I say this, you know, almost infinitely better parent than your own parents.
	So I don't want to pretend that that's not the case.
	So, you know, take all of the honor which you should from that.
	But it has to be.
	I want to go the extra mile.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	I want to go the extra mile.
	I really want to raise myself.
	I want you to as well.
	So it has cost your daughter to some degree for you to still be enmeshed with evildoers.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	And I can't help her spot them.
	And she knows that, which is why I don't, I'm not trying to have a say in her mating choices.
	We did not.
	No, no, no.
	But you're not both.
	No, you are having a say in her mating choices.
	Right.
	By defending evil and evildoers, by making jokes and having sympathy for a man who pimped his own child for drugs and murdered a guy and got away with it.
	Yeah.
	And as far as I know, it's not like he sent anonymous restitution back to the family of the guy he murdered.
	He probably couldn't even find them anymore, but whatever.
	So you are conditioning her dating choices.
	Right.
	And so Your alignment with evildoers is costing your daughter quality partners, and it's costing you the chance of love.
	Right.
	Because if a good guy, like we can look at this parallel, right?
	A good guy comes into your daughter's life, he's going to ask her a lot of questions, and he's going to ask you a lot of questions because he's a quality guy.
	So he wants to know who he's marrying into, right?
	Also, if you meet a guy who's a good guy, a quality guy, a moral guy, and you tell him what you told me, what's he going to say?
	That's the, I've heard them say it.
	It's they feel bad for me, but that's it's not here nor there.
	Do I even have to be honest with them?
	Like, do I have to tell them?
	Like, I stopped telling people because it's really like you say, you know, a sword of this.
	Hang on, hang on.
	Sorry to interrupt.
	Well, you can choose to lie and prevaricate, but good moral guys will know that too.
	Well, not necessarily lying, but he is dead.
	No, you're lying by omission because people are going to ask you what was your relationship like with your father?
	What was your childhood?
	Like, they're going to ask to get to know you, right?
	Right.
	And either you lie, in which case, you can only be with guys who prefer liars because they're manipulators and liars themselves, so then you don't get quality guys.
	Or you tell the truth and defend him and try to arouse sympathy for him.
	And then the more they find out how he treated you, the more genuinely sympathetic and horrified they will be.
	Yeah.
	So your only chance to help your daughter and to have the possibility of love yourself is to call evil evil, right?
	The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their proper names.
	He was evil.
	Did he suffer as a child?
	Yes, he suffered as a child.
	I don't care.
	I don't care.
	Have you murdered anybody?
	Well, I had an abortion.
	So, yeah, I sympathize with that, but that's not in the same category.
	Okay, good.
	Then no.
	Right.
	Did you?
	I hate to even say this.
	Did you ever pimp a child out for drug money?
	Never.
	Right.
	Did you?
	And arguably, you suffered more as a child than your father did.
	Yeah.
	I suffered as a child.
	Have I done great evils?
	I have not.
	So I don't ever want, and I will never let this happen on my show.
	Just anybody who ever says somebody did bad things because of their childhood, I will shut that shit down right away.
	Right.
	That's good.
	I appreciate that.
	Because it's not true.
	And it just perpetuates, like, it just gives excuses.
	And then we just keep going towards a mess and a disaster.
	And it doesn't work.
	So.
	And I don't want to go there.
	Yeah.
	So your daughter needs a mother who can come to terms with the evils of her parents and the extended family.
	And that's going to come with some guilt because you expose your daughter to these people too, right?
	Yes.
	Right.
	And you, I assume, haven't just told me the kind of haha stories and sympathy stories about your dad, but you also told them to your daughter too, right?
	Yes.
	So you also took a pounding to her moral compass.
	Right.
	So it's tough.
	And listen, I mean, all parents have done things that are wrong.
	No, no parent is perfect.
	It's a crazy standard.
	So don't feel uniquely alone in having made mistakes.
	We all have made mistakes.
	So if you want your daughter today, the great guy, you're going to have to achieve genuine moral clarity regarding your family of origin.
	I've been doing this over 20 years now.
	This is about as evil a situation as I've ever heard.
	And you all know I've heard some pretty nasty stuff over the years and decades.
	This is about as evil a thing as I've ever heard.
	And I'm so sorry for your childhood.
	I'm so sorry for the evil, the chaos, the betrayal, the pimping, the drugs, and everything that that led you towards, and everything that you were forced to nod and smile at.
	It's monstrous what happened to you and as evil a thing as can be conceived of in this or any other dimension.
	And don't tell me where your father is buried, where I'm going to drink three lattes and pee on his fucking headstone.
	But that's the clarity.
	I was forced to align with evil.
	I let it go on for too long.
	And I'm waking up to it now because I'm still, you're still only halfway through life, sister.
	You've got a long way to go.
	A long way to go.
	And you don't want that journey for the next 40 or 50 years.
	You don't want that journey to be surrounded by long dead ghosts and devils and demons keeping good people at bay, though they have been in the ground many a year.
	And I don't want their hands around the throat of my daughter.
	That's right.
	Because she deserves a lot better.
	You both deserved a lot better.
	And if you've gone a long way in the wrong direction, which we've all done from time to time, right?
	So again, please understand we're all in these dark, bloodlit valleys trying to grope our way forward through thorns and Nazgul.
	So if you have gone many steps in the wrong direction, it's painful to turn around.
	But the only thing worse than taking 10,000 steps in the wrong direction is taking 10,000 and one.
	That's right.
	So you're going to need an answer.
	So some guy comes into your life.
	He likes your daughter.
	She sounds great.
	And she says, he says to you, tell me a little bit about your family.
	And what would you say?
	I would say I unfortunately experienced a lot of dysfunction early on and I had to make really difficult choices that took me far too long.
	But I don't really have family.
	Dysfunction is a synonym for what?
	Chaos.
	Nope.
	Denial?
	Funny you should mention that word.
	Dysfunction is a synonym for what?
	I'm not sure.
	Evil.
	Oh.
	Yeah.
	Dysfunction is the modern word for evil that takes the sulfur out of it, takes the moral predation out of it.
	And when I would talk about my mother, yeah, my mother was violent and evil.
	And I tried to help, couldn't help, had to get away.
	It wasn't my fault.
	It wasn't my fault where I was born.
	I didn't choose her as a mother.
	And I look, I mean, my mother went through terrible things as a child.
	And I, you know, I occasionally think if I happen to see videos of what was done to my mother as a child in the war, it would break my heart.
	And I get that.
	But I still can't remove from her free will.
	That's 100% right.
Evil's Sympathy Hooks 00:03:24
	The other thing that's dawned on me since having this conversation is that if there is evil out there and I don't get my act together, they can get their foot in the door through me because I do have some, you know, some influence over my daughter.
	Obviously, I'm her mother.
	And while ultimately it is her decision and I am giving her space and we have knowledge that I don't have the skills to help her choose a partner, when she does ask me things, I need to be as on my game as possible so that, you know, evil doesn't get a foothold through me.
	Right.
	Because if I understand this correctly, my friend, the way that evil gets its hooks into you is through your sympathy.
	Yeah.
	To be sorrowful, to be hard done by, to be put upon, to be victimized.
	Oh, my wife and blah, blah, blah.
	She's so mean to me.
	And I'm trying to do right.
	So the way that evil controls you, and listen, this is the white person's curse is to be controlled through excessive empathy.
	I mean, the same stuff that got us to end slavery is also causing us to be enslaved.
	It's a horrible cycle.
	But evildoers will get into you and your daughter to some degree because you've modeled this for her and she's been exposed to it.
	She's been exposed to you surrendering self-protection for the sake of excess sympathy and sentimentality.
	So the way that evil is going to get its hooks into you and your daughter is through sympathy, which is why I need you to close that shit off.
	Like, wall it up.
	Yes, I'm on it.
	I mean, if you look back at your relationships, how many times did you get manipulated by somebody pretending to be a victim?
	My whole life.
	Your whole life.
	And that's what you were trying to bring to my audience.
	You were trying to spread that virus through me to the world.
	And I'm not saying consciously, but I'm just talking about the mechanics of it, right?
	Yes.
	So if you're trying to infect my audience, it means you're susceptible to that manipulation.
	If you're trying to manipulate me and the audience, again, unconsciously, it means that you're also susceptible to that manipulation.
	And I'm really trying to almost like save your life.
	Because if an evil guy gets his hooks into your daughter, I mean, what's your life going to be like?
	Oh, not great.
	Well, barely be worth living, right?
	So I'm really trying to work as hard as I can to give you that protection.
	Yeah.
	Because when you are talking to people about your sympathy for your father, good people turn away, but what do evil people do?
	They listen closely.
	And what do they get?
	What do they understand?
	That it's safe for them.
	Fresh meat.
	Fresh, unprotected, tasty meat.
	Ooh, she has sympathy for evildoers.
	She's like broadcasting how she can be exploited.
	Yeah.
	She's showing us all the buttons.
	Bang, bang, bang.
	She's a vending machine.
	Yep.
	You can't broadcast sympathy for evil, even if you feel it from time to time, which we all do, but you can't broadcast it because it's a major cry for demons.
Broadcasting Sympathy Safely 00:01:43
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	And you need to keep those people.
	This is one of the reasons I asked about your daughter's attractiveness and athleticism and so on.
	So if you say she's like 105 pounds, she's an eight or a nine.
	So she's very attractive.
	So there will be good guys and bad guys sniffing around, right?
	Yes.
	And you want to keep the good guys and get rid of the bad guys.
	So you cannot be talking about sympathy for evil in this world.
	You cannot be doing it.
	That's right.
	Because, well, you lived the results for the last 20 years, right?
	Yes, I have.
	All right.
	How did I do?
	If you're asking me, absolutely amazing.
	Okay, good, good.
	I'm glad.
	I'm going to be a very important topic.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	I'm going to be back to tell you how it turns out.
	And I want to hear.
	I want to hear.
	I really do.
	I think it'll be good.
	I mean, we got some stuff to go on.
	All right.
	Fantastic.
	All right.
	Well, listen, I really do appreciate your time.
	Please drop me a line, support at freedomain.com and let me know how it's going.
	And I certainly wish you the very best for you and your daughter.
	And again, great pride and admiration you should take at how much you've improved things.
	If it's any consolation, I still have places and ways to go.
	And I've been doing it a lot longer than you have.
	So that, I will say, is an evolution, but I hope this is a good, good step forward.
	And I wish you guys the very best.
	I'm very grateful.
	Thank you very much.
	And I really appreciate everything you do.
	You're very welcome.
	Have a good night, everybody.
	We will talk to you tomorrow night for Friday Night Live.
	And take care.
	Bye.

Chapters

00:00:00 Helping Daughter Find Mate
00:09:29 Learning to Set Boundaries
00:13:45 Why He Changed
00:29:06 Growth Through Accountability
00:31:23 Witness Curb Stomped
00:41:47 He Became the Bad Guy
00:54:00 Supportive Wife, Destroyer Of Relationships
01:00:29 Why You Sympathize Too Much
01:15:27 A Parent's Influence
01:30:39 Evil's Sympathy Hooks
01:34:03 Broadcasting Sympathy Safely