I'm a single man wanting to have a big family without divorce, and I have some questions to further my goal.
First, in the West today, should fathers insist on legal marriage for their daughters or rely on commitment without it?
And second, I am afraid that if I advertise what I am looking for, that I might attract a comedian wanting to steal from me.
Is this a productive thought?
How effective are defenses against this?
Because of the above, I restrict myself to dating either at random or from places likely to have the woman I am looking for, then learn from them what is most important before revealing too much to them.
And third, besides a greater risk that the person can change, are there significant innate challenges in dating younger women, or are those individual dependent?
To what extent are the reasons young couples have higher divorce rates avoidable?
That's it.
Okay, it's quite simple.
So can you tell me a little bit about yourself, how old you are, and a little bit about your dating history?
So I'm between 25 and 30.
Dating history is quite limited.
I had some attention from women before high school, but not much since.
I have done some online dating.
Okay, and what is the longest relationship that you've had?
Six months.
And can you tell me a bit about that one?
That one was online.
So I'm not sure how real it was, but it ended with the other person cheating on me.
And that allowed me to be disillusioned.
I was quite delusional.
I projected a lot on them because it felt good.
Okay.
And was there any chance of you guys actually meeting up?
Or why did it stay online for so long?
We weren't in the same place.
And I was also very young.
So probably underage.
Oh, so this was like 10 years or more ago, right?
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
Longer than that.
Okay.
What about adult relationships?
Adult relationships.
I had one short relationship where I only had sex a few times.
And after that, a whole lot of nothing.
I mean, I did go on some dates, but nothing extended.
Okay.
And why do you think your dating life has been so sparse?
I think one major part might be that I'm afraid of women.
Okay, so tell me a little bit about your history of being afraid of women.
When I was, I think, five years old, there was a seven-year-old girl that was left alone with me in a room.
And she showed her backside to me, and then later claimed it was my idea, which it wasn't at all.
I didn't get in trouble from it, but it was shocking that she made an accusation like that against me.
And I think that promoted distrust of women.
Sorry, you were five?
Yes.
Okay, so you're five, you're left alone with the seven-year-old girl, she shows her butt to you, and then she says, It was your idea.
Yeah, that's what I heard from my parents.
Okay.
That's not maybe I'm missing something, of course, but that doesn't seem like a lot of provocation to end up with a significant fear of women.
That's fine.
Okay, was there anything else?
My mom was divorced.
My dad was divorced by my mom.
Okay, sorry.
So the way this generally works is you give me more than one sentence at a time, because otherwise it's just going to be like pulling teeth.
Okay.
So tell me a little bit about what happened with your parents.
I'm not really sure what would be relevant, but my mom divorced my dad without saying why or being open to discussion.
And I only found this years later because they didn't talk to me about it.
My dad just kind of slowly drifted away and disappeared after that.
I know that at a young age, at least 12 or even 10, I was aware there was no child support or anything like that because my dad wasn't making much at the time and then moved to our country of origin.
I just found out that I knew at a young age, at 12 years old, that women basically controlled whatever happened after they were made pregnant and they could get you on child support and so on.
And that's something that I feared.
And also that I also feared that they might, going back to that stint with the seven-year-old, that they might, I don't know, maybe complain or cause me trouble if I got involved with them sexually.
Those were my thoughts that I remember.
I also, the last time I was approached by a woman was in the first year of high school.
She followed me home.
I was quite cold with her.
And I basically, the modern turn is I nagged her a lot.
And then I had a very long commute, which I think was frustrating for her.
And towards the end, she asked if she should continue to come home with me.
And I thought to myself that that was odd that she would ask that.
Wouldn't she just make the choice herself?
So I just told her she could do whatever she wants.
In hindsight, I think she wanted to see if I was interested in her and wanted her to keep pursuing me.
After that, she told her friends that I was really funny and wanted to show me off.
And I didn't like that.
I didn't like that she wanted to show me off to her friends.
And that was the end of that.
Wasn't happened between us.
Oh, that girl?
I was 12 years old.
12 years old.
So she was asking for consent, right?
She was like, okay, so I'm following you home.
Do you want me to do that or not?
Is that right?
I don't know.
Well, no, but she was asking you, do you want me to keep walking home with you?
She didn't use those words.
I don't think she, if she was asking for consent, it's possible I was really dense, which I was.
Well, she was asking if I understand.
Sorry, I mean, you don't have to nitpick on the words, but she asked you if you wanted to have her keep seeing you or walking with you, right?
I guess so.
I'm sorry, what am I not understanding?
Well, she didn't ask me, Do you want me to continue to go home with you?
She asked me, Should I continue to go home with you?
Okay.
I mean, it's the same thing.
Anyway, so I told her she could do either.
Okay, so you said that you didn't care.
Basically, yeah.
Okay, so you didn't care.
You didn't care if she was walking with you or not.
Well, that's not what I meant, but that's how it would come off.
Well, what did you mean?
Well, I was confused.
I meant I just meant what I said.
Why would she ask that?
If she didn't really want to come, then she shouldn't.
And if she does, she should.
Well, no, she wanted to come because she was doing it.
So that's what she wanted, but she sensed an indifference from you and was asking, Do you want me to come or not?
And you said, I don't care.
Yeah, I understand the power talk now, but back then I was probably autistic, to put it simply.
What do you mean by the power talk?
I understand now the meaning behind what she was asking and what she was really asking.
But back then, I only saw her words, and I didn't understand why she was asking that.
Yeah, I mean, she sounds like a nice girl who was asking if she was bothering you or if you wanted her to work with you.
But all right.
Okay, so you said you didn't care, and then she said, I think you're funny, and she wanted to show you off to her friends.
Is that right?
No, that was on another day.
Okay, but I mean, same girl, right?
Yeah, same girl, yeah.
So she kept walking with you, and then she wanted to.
And what do you mean by show you off to her friends?
Well, I'm not sure what that means.
Sorry, she did not keep walking from me.
She departed from the train to find a way back home.
And then on another day, when leaving school, she it's a long time ago, she told her her friends, like, hey, this is so-and-so.
He's really funny.
And I don't know what else she said.
And I wasn't very happy about it.
Why not?
Because I thought that she wanted to use me to show off to her friends, whereas I just wanted her to want me for me and not to show off to her friends.
Okay, and would you say that you were close with your mother at all as a child?
No.
And do you, sorry, do you have any siblings?
I no.
Okay.
So what was going on between you and your mom when you were a kid?
What was going on?
My input didn't seem to matter at all in regards to food or anything.
I was never consulted and my complaints didn't matter.
So like she would she I had a cat I really cared about she just got rid of it.
I was never consulted about that.
She would hide my laptop so I couldn't play because she thought it was bad for me to play on the laptop.
Later I when I finally got a PS3 and I got a zero on a math exam.
Even though I was really good, it's because some kid made me feel enough pity to help him during an exam.
And obviously that's helping someone cheat.
Really stupid.
Anyway, and I came home and I found out my PS3 was gone.
Sold for peanuts to another failed because you helped the kid cheat.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then your mother interpreted this as you were playing too much on the PS3, so that had to go so that you wouldn't get zero.
Well, she never talked to me about it.
She just sold my PS3.
I mean, that's I see that's the thinking, though, right?
Yeah.
I didn't have clothes that fit on for a long time.
They were way too small for me.
I think she should have just bought some.
I couldn't bother to go and buy some.
I didn't really have my own money.
That's it.
A lot of it is complaints about food.
Either it's not enough.
I'm still hungry and she doesn't believe me.
Or the ingredients are not done at the same time.
So like, let's say the meat is done now and then the legumes will be done in an hour, which doesn't make sense to me.
Part of me isn't sure if those things are reasonable, but I usually was quite happy to eat at strangers' home.
So I don't think I was too picky for sure.
Okay.
And did your mom give you any sort of feedback or any advice or wisdom about life?
No, not really.
I mean, she did say some things, but it was kind of all over the place.
Like she maybe made sixteen career recommendations, which is the same as recommending nothing.
Right, right, okay.
And have you gotten any closer to your mother since you became an adult?
No.
Okay, I can't really trust her.
I think every two years she threatened that she would have to get out in eight months and then maybe three months later she would say, Oh, you can stay here and save money and na-na-na.
But uh two years would not go by without uh some threat like that.
Even if she promised that she wouldn't or keep me for at least another year or something like that.
Right.
And are you still living with your mother now?
I am, but she is never home because she lives with her boyfriend and the lease is not transferable.
So, so you're living in your mother's place, but she lives with her boyfriend.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
And what field do you work in if you work?
I wouldn't want to give specifics, but that's why I say a field job.
It's a math-related job.
Math-related job, okay.
And do you make decent money?
Yeah.
Like middle class or below?
Or above?
Middle class.
Middle class.
Okay.
Okay, so you're 25 to 30.
You have no real adult dating experience.
And when was the last time you had a relationship that was more than just brief sex?
That would be like 15 or 20 years ago.
Well, it can't be 20 years ago if you're 25 to 30, right?
Well, I might have messed up the math, but you're a little bit more.
You're a math-related job.
Anyway, sorry, go ahead.
I actually never had an extended relationship with someone in person.
So I had there's one person I had sex with a few times, but beyond that, I never had an extended relationship with anyone.
Okay, so, I mean, what do you do with your sexual desires?
I masturbate, obviously.
Okay.
All right.
And you've had sex a couple of times.
Is that right?
Yes.
Okay.
So how do you think you look from the outside in to a woman?
Like if a woman sort of comes across you in her life or knows these sort of basic details about you, how do you think you appear?
Probably not good, but I'm not sure.
Please tell me.
No, no, I don't know.
I'm not a woman.
I'm just wondering what I don't know because usually I wouldn't share all these details with someone.
Well, I can tell you for sure that if you're let's I don't know.
Let's just say you're 27, right?
So if you're 27, then you've been sexually mature for like, you know, well over a decade, maybe sort of 12, 13 years.
And so if you are in your mid-late 20s, then a woman would know that you're most likely a pornography addict.
A woman would know that you don't have any dating history, of course, that you don't have any skills in relationships.
A woman would also know that everybody in your life is kind of letting you slip through the cracks.
Like the people in your life are not sitting down with you.
And I say this with real sympathy.
This is not a criticism.
But a woman would know that you are not surrounded by any people who are intervening as you kind of fade out from society, right?
Because if you had, let's say you get your wish and you become married to a good woman and you have kids, can you imagine if your kid is mid to late 20s, has never dated?
I mean, wouldn't that be an emergency for you as the father?
Yes.
And I say this with great sympathy, but a woman would know that you did not have people around you who seem to give much of a shit about you.
Which would be sad, right?
Yeah.
So how long have you listened to what I do?
Ten years?
Ten years, okay.
So have you had the conversation with your mother and your father, if you can get in touch with your father?
Have you had the conversation about deficiencies in your childhood or how you were raised?
I did.
Ah, good.
Okay, to mother and father?
Both.
Okay.
Separately.
And how long ago was that?
Like eight years.
Oh, eight years ago.
Okay.
So when you were in your late teens.
So how did it go?
What came out of that?
My mom was avoidant.
Completely avoidant.
And she said, I don't know what you're talking about.
Does the apple on the table bother you after one hour of listening to me?
Sorry, does the apple on the table?
I'm not sure what that follow.
What does that mean?
That is what she said.
Does the apple on the table bother you?
Yeah.
So she had a head injury.
I don't understand what that has to do with anything that you'd be talking about.
It has nothing to do with anything that I talk to her about.
Oh, so she was just kind of telling you, I don't care, I'm not going to listen, so shut up.
Yeah.
Okay.
And so you got no satisfaction out of that conversation, right?
No.
Okay.
So did you have it again?
Well, that was, before having that conversation with her, I didn't have much hopes, but I wanted closure.
So I didn't, I never had as much of a conversation with her later.
But I think I did about four years later.
But I don't think she genuinely cared because of her future behavior after that.
Okay, so you tried to get her to understand the deficiencies in how you were raised, and she didn't listen.
She kind of gaslit or minimized or whatever, was avoidant, as you said.
So what was the result of her not listening to you about your complaints about her as a mother?
Like, what was you said you wanted closure, so did you get closure?
Yeah, I did.
So why are you still in the relationship?
For a financial benefit of not having to pay rent.
For a while.
Not anymore, but for a while.
Oh, okay.
So you were, I don't know, 22, 23, 24.
You had the second conversation with her.
And you said, okay, well.
No, it was more like 18.
No, you said the first one, and then you said you had one four years later?
Yeah, but I think the first one was when I was 15, and the other one was when I was like 19 or 18.
Oh, 15.
Oh, okay.
I'm sorry, I'm all over the place with the numbers here because I thought you were.
Well, I'm making some mistake too, as well.
Okay, so just help me understand how old you were.
So you were 15 when you had the first conversation with your mother.
Yes.
Okay.
And then you were 19 when you had the second conversation with your mother.
Yeah.
Okay.
And There was no connection, no breakthrough, no when she gaslit you, or what she just poo-pooed or didn't gaslight me, but she like she cried and uh apologized.
I don't remember much else, but I um I think I reached something, I reached something in her, but it was temporary and it's like she decided to go back to whatever she was doing in her mind before then.
Okay, so uh, she cried.
Sorry, I thought she just talked about you and the apple on the table, but okay, so she cried, she apologized, but then things kind of went back to the way they were, yeah, okay, okay, and then you're still living in her place, you know, six or seven or more years later, right?
Yeah, so why did you, um, why did you not move out at some point?
Um, I wanted to save and invest the money saved, okay.
Um, I mean, I understand that, but you understand that there are costs to that too, right?
I heard that and I was listening to your podcast, and I was aware of that when I uh when I was, I think, 17 or something, and I decided to stay.
Just seemed at least I could see the financial benefit.
No, I'm talking about costs.
Hang on, so the stuff the stuff before you're an adult, I can't really talk much about because you don't have much freedom, but now you're still living in her place and you're between 25 and 30, right?
Yeah, so why are you still there if the relationship isn't really happening, if you've never really had this kind of connection or anything like that?
I'm just cheap, financial reasons.
Okay, I don't want to spend the money to have my own place.
Okay, I mean, so what's the cost of that?
I'm not completely sure.
I only have some vague ideas.
Okay.
So let's say that a woman comes into your life who's, you know, a strong, confident woman, and she sees that you're still living at Mommy's place in your mid to late 20s.
What does she think?
what does she think that uh i'm not accomplished like Well, if you're making enough money to move out, but you don't, then you hate to spend money, right?
Yes.
Okay.
Now, if you want to have a woman, say, stay home and raise your children, and you're really cheap, is that going to be any fun for her?
I don't know.
Are you sure it's necessarily not going to be fun for like, I don't mean that, but it's going to be viewed as not fun for her?
Like, is it such a red flag?
Well, I'm asking, you're not answering my question.
So I'm not sure.
Let me ask you again.
Let me ask it again.
So you want a woman to quit her career and stay home and raise your children.
Is that right?
Yes.
Okay.
So she's going to be dependent upon you for spending money, right?
Yeah.
Now, if you're really cheap and you really don't like to spend money, then if she and she's going to need to spend money, she's going to want to spend money.
Is that going to be fun for her to constantly try and get you to pry open your wallet and give her some money?
Well, I don't know if it's going to be like that, because it's at least makes more sense to spend money in that scenario than when you just spend money to live on your own.
Well, she can only judge you, though, by the decisions that you've already made.
She can't judge you by some future potential decisions, right?
Yeah.
So what she's going to and you're going to she's going to say, why are you still living at your mom's house?
And you say, because I'm cheap.
Or I don't like to spend money or whatever, right?
Yeah.
So she's going to know that, you know, 10 years into your adulthood, you don't like to spend money.
And she's going to have to judge you based on that, right?
Yeah.
Is it possible that some woman might like that or at least not see it as a negative?
Well, I mean, anything's possible.
I'm not sure what you mean.
What do you mean?
Anything's possible.
Yeah, but like, well, I just want to know, like, would 95% of women find that unattractive or like a bad thing?
based on on like your opinion well so a woman looks at a a man living in is this the same apartment that you grew up in For the later part since I was in high school, yes.
Okay, so you're still sleeping in your childhood room, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
So obviously I can't speak for all women, but I think there is a woman insult, you know, living in your mom's basement.
And I don't, it's not a fair insult, right?
Because there could be some legitimate reasons for that.
But what it would say to women is that you don't value your independence.
You don't value your own place.
you value saving money.
That's not super appealing to women as a whole.
Because a woman wants a man to be, you know, sort of strong and independent and out there doing his own thing.
Now, you could say, listen, I'm staying at my mom's place because I want to save up for a big house or a lovely house.
I mean, there's reasons you could do it.
Oh, you could say it.
But for a woman to come over to your place when you live at your mom's place, it makes you look younger than you are.
And is that a bad thing?
Well, because women associate a man living at his mother's place as younger than he is.
yeah, it's not a great thing for sure.
Because psychologically, you're still absorbed in your mother's world.
You're in your mother's environment.
Which means that the mother-in-law is her potential mother-in-law has a very strong hold over you.
I'm sorry, go ahead.
Yeah, that makes sense.
It makes me think there are men who live alone, and I presume there are men who live alone and still have a connection with their mother.
Wouldn't it have the Almost part of the same problem in that case as well?
I'm not sure what your question is.
I mean, are there men who live alone who have a strong connection with the mother?
Yes.
And?
I mean, would the woman think that the mother has a strong hold over the son?
Or no?
No.
It depends what you mean by hold, right?
So let's say you meet a woman, she's 28.
And do you pay any rent to your mother?
Yes.
Okay, so you pay rent to your mother, so you're not actually saving quite as much, right?
Well, not anymore.
Sorry, I'm not sure what that means.
Well, more recently, I'm paying rent to her.
She's looking to leave permanently for me to pay full rent.
Okay, so for how long have you been paying rent to her?
About a year.
Okay, so why not then just move out and get your own place?
Her lease is a lot better.
Her lease is a lot better.
You mean she charges you less for rent than you'd have to pay elsewhere?
Yeah, well, she's also charged less.
She has a very good lease that wouldn't be able to get elsewhere.
Okay, got it.
Okay.
So if you meet a woman who's 28, just take a bit more of an extreme example.
She's 28 years old.
She lives in her father's apartment and he pays all her bills.
What would you think?
Well, she's either spending a lot of money or is pretty rich if she works.
Yeah, I'm not talking about the math.
Like, what would you think of her maturity, independence, her desire to go out into the world and fight for her part of the universe kind of thing?
What would you think of a woman who was 28 and her father gave her a credit card?
He pays all her bills and so on.
What would you think?
Not much, but at the very least, she's not laid back.
She's sorry, she's not too laid back.
I don't know what the opposite of laid back is.
Ambitious?
Ambitious.
But I mean, I don't know.
I don't see a conflict between staying at your parents' place and being ambitious.
Well, do you think that adults are supposed to pay their own bills?
Yes.
Okay, but you're not paying your own bills.
Well, I think I am.
Okay, you're on reduced rent at your mother's place.
Does she pay?
I mean, do you pay electricity?
Do you pay internet?
Do you pay if there are any other taxes?
So do you pay the majority of what the cost is of the apartment?
Yeah, until recently, I paid half.
And the more recent years that you're paying more than half?
Yeah, I'll pay it all and she'll move out and not come in.
At least that's what she said.
So you're going to take over the lease, is that right?
Yeah, just not legally because we can't transfer it.
No, I understand.
Yeah, okay.
All right.
So are you saving?
Are you saving?
Are you only paying 50% what you would be paying in market rates as a whole?
Are you paying only half if you were to move out?
Or how much less are you paying by living at your mom's place?
I think it's somewhere close to half or 40% less.
Okay, got it.
All right.
So it's not going to break the bank for you to move out.
Like if you were to move out and have your own place, then it would not bankrupt you or anything, right?
It would not.
Okay.
All right.
So what percentage of the current living costs is being paid still by your mom?
For me, like right now, you know, like 40%.
Okay, so your mom is still paying 40% of the cost of the apartment, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, 50%, but I pay for all of my food and the internet.
Okay, but your mom pays 50%.
All right.
Do you think that it's good for parents to still be paying their child's bills when they're 10 years into adulthood?
It depends how ambitious their child is.
If he's or she is completely unambitious, I think it's bad.
But if they're progressing in life as they would otherwise, I think it's a good thing.
Okay, so at what age do you think parents are no longer responsible for paying their adult children's bills?
I think 18.
No, no, but I mean, your mom's still paying half your bills, at least for this.
So, and you said that's a good thing.
So, at what age do you think, is it 30 or 35 or 40?
Like, at what age, no matter how ambitious the kid is, at what age do you think your mother is no longer responsible for paying your bills?
It was far gone.
It was at 18 or 22.
I'd say, no, but she's still paying your bills, and you said that's a good thing.
So, at some point, it must be a bad thing, right?
Well, it's she's not responsible, but it's a good thing that she does.
Okay, at what point is it not a good thing for your mother?
Okay, let's say you're 40 and your mother is still paying half your bills.
Is that reasonable?
I haven't really thought about it because I'm just asking you.
I'm just asking you.
If you're 40 and your mother is still paying half your bills, is that reasonable?
It definitely feels unreasonable.
Okay, good, good.
Okay, so what about 35?
It definitely is unreasonable.
What about 30?
Also unreasonable.
Okay, what about your age?
I mean, it feels that way, yeah.
Okay, so it's not reasonable for your mother to be paying half your bills.
Not 100% convinced, but it's not crazy to think that.
Okay, got it.
Okay, so do you want to get married and have kids?
Is that right?
Yeah.
Okay.
So why aren't you dating?
I mean, I know that there's the legal concerns and whatever, but I mean, that's not an issue when you're dating, right?
Not anymore, but it was before.
But I kind of thought things over and figured that it wasn't so dangerous.
You could just use your judgment.
Okay.
And it's pretty safe.
All right.
So you haven't dated as an adult.
Why not?
Laziness.
I didn't see the benefit.
But you want to get married and have kids, right?
Right.
So that's the benefit.
I'm sorry if I'm missing something here.
I mean, you can't get married and have kids if you don't date, right?
I didn't think I would find a woman who wants to have a lot of kids.
Oh, no, you can't say that because you didn't date, so you don't know.
Well, I did ask a bunch of women what they wanted to do in life to get a sample.
Okay.
I don't know if you want to have a conversation or just block everything I'm asking.
I want to...
I definitely don't want to block everything you're asking.
Okay, so you're saying that you, okay, how many kids do you want?
At least 10.
At least 10.
Okay.
Yeah.
And if you want at least eight to ten children, how much is that going to cost you a year, just roughly?
Because you have to support yourself, a wife, eight children, so you've got to support 10 kids who may want to go up and go to university or something like that.
So how much is that going to cost you?
A year.
About $60,000.
Are you kidding me?
Wait, $60,000 US dollars?
I think that's, yeah, we'll say $60,000.
Okay.
I'm not sure you don't have, what region of the world are you living in?
Let's say I live in North America.
I'm sorry?
I live in North America.
Okay.
So you think with an income of $60,000, you can support 10 people?
Yeah.
Why do you think that?
I look at my own food costs.
I look at the rent.
And as long as I don't get everyone their own room, I just multiply it by 10.
Okay.
I'm going to have to puzzle this one through.
And forgive me, you know, my math skills are probably not quite as sharp as yours.
But $60,000 a year is $5,000 a month.
And how much would you be paying in taxes, social security payments, unemployment insurance, other kinds of deductions?
I was assuming this was after tax and other payroll taxes.
Okay, so like 90K or whatever gets down to 60, right?
So you're talking $5,000 a month net, not gross, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
So how big a house would you think you would need for eight children?
Well, I don't think it's going to be based on what I need.
It's going to be based on what I afford, what I can afford.
And then I'll have kids until someone doesn't want to have kids anymore.
No, no, come on.
Let's do it.
You said eight kids.
This is an interesting exercise.
So how big a house would you need if you have 10 people under one roof?
I'll go with five bedrooms.
Okay, five bedroom house.
Do you think with 10 children, it might be nice to have a backyard?
Sure.
Like a reasonably sized backyard, right?
Is that right?
Yeah.
I mean, I wouldn't do it, but you know, I mean, yes, it would be nice.
Okay.
All right.
So would you like to homeschool or send your children to government school?
You'd like to homeschool.
Okay.
All right.
Okay, got it.
So are you at your computer at the moment or near a computer?
Yes.
Okay.
Could you just look up in your neighborhood, or you can ask AI, of course, how much is a five-bedroom house on, say, half an acre in your environment?
Oh, well, I'm not going to be able to afford it.
It's probably at least half a million.
Okay.
So at least half a million.
So what's the mortgage?
Let's say you can put 20% down.
So you put $100,000 down.
So what is a mortgage on $400,000 at, say, 6%?
I assume you're asking for the monthly payment.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, I'm going to have to compute this because I haven't bothered.
Sure.
Was it $2,800, $3,000 a month, something like that?
I'll assume a 30-year mortgage.
So what interest rate are we going to use?
8%, 7%?
7.5, let's be split the difference.
Alright, almost there.
So I did simplify the thousand five hundred a month mortgage.
Okay, so about $3,500 a month mortgage.
You're going to need heating.
You're going to need property taxes.
You're going to need water bills and internet.
And what do you think?
Let's say you've got four girls and four boys when teenagers is particularly boys when they become teenagers, they start eating like ravenous wolves, right?
So how much do you think your grocery bill would be a year for 10 people?
Sorry, a month.
Let's just say a month.
Well, it would definitely be less than, not more than 5,000.
And I think it could be made lower by just choosing cheaper macronutrients.
Okay.
I mean, fine.
What do you think it would be?
A couple of hundred bucks a week?
Well, $2,500 or $5,000.
Sorry, you're saying $3,500 for the mortgage.
And are you saying $2,000 for groceries?
Like $500 a week?
Honestly, I don't think it's going to be more than $2,500 for groceries.
Okay.
So you're already past your budget, right?
Because you've got 5K net.
You've got $3,500 mortgage, $2,500 groceries.
You're already at $6,000, right?
So you're already past your budget.
Yeah.
So you can't.
I mean, come on, man.
You're a math guy.
Yeah, but when I did the math, I cheaped out on the.
I wouldn't be getting a half a million dollar house.
Okay, so you want a woman to raise eight children, what, in an apartment?
Well, probably not, but it would have to be a house to probably be somewhere cheaper.
Okay, let's say you can somehow knock $1,000 off the month.
You're still out of money, just with the house and the groceries.
I would knock out more than that.
You can't.
I wouldn't get as expensive a mortgage.
No, no, we already took your mortgage from $3,500 down to $2,500.
Oh, I thought that was the food.
Sorry.
But you understand, you haven't thought this through much at all.
Because if you want to have eight kids, that's exciting, right?
And you're in America, so you're going to have medical bills, dental bills, braces, eyeglasses, perhaps.
I mean, you're going to need a lot of money.
That's not even counting whether the kids, I mean, are they going to have their own tablets or computers if you're going to be homeschooling?
Or are they going to share them?
I don't know how that would work.
They need clothes.
You can get some hand-me-downs, but not all of them, because that kind of shafts the younger kids, right?
They need toys, they grow out of clothes.
I mean, kids can be some cost, right?
Yeah.
And homeschooling eight children is a mammoth job.
So your wife might need some help.
Okay.
Certainly, with modern standards, I wouldn't be able to afford it, but I'm just willing to cut costs.
And there's no magic wand called cut costs.
I mean, stuff costs money, right?
You got to have two.
I mean, whether you're working from home or not, I don't know, but you'll need at least one car, perhaps two.
Certainly, if you commute, your wife is going to need a car.
And what are you, I mean, with eight kids, how on earth are you going to get them in a car?
You know, two cars, second driver.
I mean, I'm just, these are just the basics, right?
So it's fine.
If you want to say, if you want to say, I want to have eight kids, hey, man, go for it.
More power to you.
But you want an intelligent woman, right?
I guess.
Sorry.
What do you mean, you guess?
You don't want an intelligent woman?
I mean, I'd want to, but I don't think it was really very high up on my list.
Not really something I was concerned with.
You weren't concerned with your wife's intelligence, is that right?
Well, not to the point where I would put high intelligent.
Sorry, not to the point where what?
I would put, you know, sorry, did you say highly intelligent or just an intelligent wife, right?
I mean, sure, yeah.
Yeah, because if you don't have an intelligent wife, you're much less likely to have intelligent children, right?
Yeah.
because, you know, it's 50-50 and intelligence is a little bit more skewed to the female side, right?
So if you want smart kids, then you need a smart, yeah, the intelligence genetics transmits a little bit more through the female side.
So when you choose, yeah, when you choose, well, but you know, even if we say it's 50-50, right?
If you have an IQ of 120 and your wife has an IQ of 90, then your kids are likely to have an IQ of 105, which is going to be tough for you to parent because they will seem slow to you.
So it's part of good parenting is choosing someone of equal intelligence so that you don't get too frustrated as a parent, if that makes sense.
I haven't considered that.
Okay.
So you want an intelligent woman and you want an intelligent woman to trust you enormously because she's going to be handing over her entire life to raising eight children.
So that's it for her.
She can't ever have a job or a career, really.
So she's going to be entirely responsible.
You're going to be entirely responsible for supporting her, the eight kids, and paying the bills.
Right?
Yeah.
So you better know what the hell you're doing.
If you want to try and get a woman to give you eight kids, you better say, hey, yeah, this is a lot.
I love kids.
I want eight kids.
Here's how I'm going to be able to afford it.
Do you make less than 60K a year now?
No.
I mean, sorry, I mean, net.
I mean, after tax, I'd say I'm pretty close to it.
I have to check.
Okay, so you're mid to late 20s and you are a little bit below 5K a month net, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
Do you have more than 50K in savings?
Yes.
Okay.
Do you have more than 100K in savings?
Yes.
Okay.
Do you have more than 200K in savings?
Well, honestly, I probably wouldn't want to go all the way.
Okay, that's fine.
Okay, so you've got some good savings.
And you cannot.
So let's say you have, I don't know, just say you have 100K.
So you can do a down payment on a house that gives you a $3,500 a month mortgage.
And plus from that, you're going to have to have a bunch of other house costs and so on.
And you also have to have money set aside for, you know, your water heater and your heater and air conditioning and all the things that can go wrong with the house, which when you own the house, of course, you have to pay for and your property taxes and so on, right?
So there's a bunch of money that needs set aside.
So right now, you're not particularly close to being able to afford eight kids, right?
Well, we would just live within our means.
So that's not a magic wand, bro.
You want an intelligent, if you want an intelligent woman, she's going to ask for more than a magic wand of, we'll make it work.
Because math is math, right?
Yeah, well, I'll show her.
I'll show her then some cheap ass math.
No, but she won't believe you, right?
I don't believe you.
Well, you don't believe me because I use some pretty big numbers as far as expenses go.
Well, not pretty big numbers, but I didn't use unusually smaller numbers as far as the house size and so on.
Okay, a half million dollar house with $100,000 down, floating a 400K mortgage for eight children is not exorbitant.
Because the thing is, if you get a cheaper house, it's either too small for your eight kids, or it's in a bad neighborhood where your wife will not want to live, or it's a run-down house that you're going to save some money up front, but then you're going to have to spend a lot of money in maintenance and repairs or upgrades.
I'd have to get a remote job in some place where land is cheaper.
Sure, okay.
But then you have to say to a woman, we're going to move far away from your family.
And you're going to have to raise eight kids in the middle of nowhere with no neighborhood.
I mean, some farmers have done it.
Are you a farmer?
Are you going to marry a farmer?
No.
Some people live in the Antarctic.
That doesn't mean most women want to move there.
Is she going to want to move away from friends and family if she's got eight kids to raise?
No, she's going to want her parents around to help her raise the kids.
Because you can't raise eight kids, one person.
How many can you raise, though, one person?
Well, I don't know, but it's less than eight, especially if they're relatively close in age.
So a baby's diaper needs to be changed once an hour, and a proper change takes 10 minutes.
So you've got three kids in diapers.
Once an hour?
Yeah.
Because they pee or they poop.
And the longer they sit in their pee in particular, right, the more irritated the skin becomes and all of that.
So a baby's diaper needs to be changed once an hour on average while they're awake.
And it takes 10 minutes to properly change a diaper.
So if you've got three kids in diapers, half of your wife's time is spent changing diapers.
And there's still five other kids, right?
I did not expect that.
Well, but here's the thing, bro.
You're a smart guy.
You listened to my show for 10 years.
So why haven't you done the research?
It's not like you're overburdened with dating expenses and time, right?
There are families who have a lot of kids, and I presume some of them live alone or.
Yes, and some people win the lottery.
Is that a good strategy?
I don't think it's luck-based.
I think it's willpower-based.
I think if they want to make it work, they will find a way.
And not in a magic way, just that there are ways to do it.
It's just that people would find it uncomfortable to do the things that they're willing to do.
Okay, so tell me how 5K a month works with the numbers you gave me.
Okay, I get a smaller house.
Let's say I get the mortgage down to 2,000.
And I get a house that's only 300K.
So a small house.
Okay, so you've got a $3,000 mortgage, right?
So that's 60% of your 5K.
Now, housing costs should not be 60% of your net, right?
And that's just the basic housing cost, not even including property taxes and heating and electricity and water and all of that.
Okay, so let's say you get your mortgage down to $3,000 out of your $5,000.
Right?
Then what?
I would say $2,500.
Okay, let's say we get it down.
I already went through the scenario.
I said we can knock $1,000 off your mortgage through some miracle.
Okay, so you got $25,000.
So half of your money is going just on raw mortgage, not even including other associated housing costs.
The way that I see this is as the children come into life, my income will increase.
So it'll be better than that.
I'll at least have $6,000 a month.
And I think I can get food costs easily down to $100 a month per person, which is very much below what most people spend.
Okay, so that's $1,000 for groceries, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
Or $1,200.
I think we had eight kids, two adults, $100 each a month.
Okay.
So we're still doing 10 kids.
No, just eight.
So are you saying that you can live on 25 bucks a week in groceries?
Yeah.
The fuck are you eating?
I've done it on 50.
Well, to be fair, it might be that I'm lucky.
My grocery store, I'd say, has at least prices that are.
No, no, seriously.
How are you living on 25 bucks, three meals a day, just seven days a week, right?
Plus some snacks, maybe, right?
I mean, how are you able to get 21 meals a week, 84 meals a month, on 100 bucks?
That's a buck ten a meal.
How the hell are you making.
I'm sorry, don't be that.
How are you living on a buck 10 a meal?
So they have sales, and when they have sales, I stock the fridge and the freezer.
And I think that cuts my cost down by 75%.
At least help me understand.
So what are you?
I'm not disagreeing with you.
I'm just a little stunned, but I'm certainly happy to be schooled.
So how are you able to eat for a buck a meal?
Okay, let me pull out my because I did calculate it.
No, just what are you, but what are you buying?
That's what I'm just curious about.
Okay, I'm buying eggs, cheese, and some legumes, some tomato, and meat.
So I eat meat and legumes and then eggs with cheese in the morning.
Okay.
And that's a good thing.
And that's a buck ten a meal.
I don't know if it's a buck ten a meal.
Well, no, because you've got a hundred bucks a month for groceries, eighty-four meals.
So it's a buck ten percent.
Probably two meals a day.
Oh, you eat two meals a day.
Okay, that just means the meals have to be bigger, right?
Okay, so actually, I see here it's about less than $7 per day on this plan, which is but see, the thing is, I would just eat less meat.
That's what I would do.
I would just eat more potatoes and rice.
That's basically the plan to get to the lower number.
Okay.
Now, if your wife is breastfeeding, she's going to need extra calories, right?
I mean, the calories for breast milk have to come from somewhere.
They don't come from space, right?
Yeah.
So she's not going to be able to live on a buck a meal.
Well, not a buck a meal.
It looks like I got like three to four bucks a meal here.
But that's two meals a day, right?
Yeah.
Well, they're pretty big meals.
Okay, that's fine.
So eight bucks a meal, two meals a day.
Is that right?
No, sorry, it's eight bucks total for the day.
It's actually like seven to six bucks.
Okay, so eight bucks a day.
So give me that.
What's eight times thirty?
That's two hundred and forty dollars a month, right?
Not a hundred.
Yeah.
So that's two and a half times, well, 2.4 times what your estimate was, right?
So instead of it being $1,000 a month for groceries, we're talking $2,400 a month.
So you've got a $2,500 mortgage.
You're doing $2,400 a month on groceries.
That's $5,900.
you've got a grand total of $100 left over for every other conceivable expense, right?
Yeah.
I mean, if this was a business plan, right, if you were trying to get investment, would an investor give you a penny?
No.
No.
So you're asking a woman to do more than just invest like an investor.
You're asking her to invest her life, her security, her independence, her financial independence.
You're asking us to surrender all of that to you, and you don't have much of a clue about the numbers.
Well, we're not going to have more kids than we can afford.
I mean, I think we can afford at least seven with these numbers.
No.
Not even close.
So, you know, my point is that you don't have much of a handle on these numbers.
So when you say, I want at least eight children, blah, a woman is like, you know, it's going to expect you to have some clue on costs and expenses, right?
Of course.
but you don't.
And I say this not to criticize you.
I say this because I want you to be able to get what you want.
But in order to get what you want, you have to be credible to women, right?
If that makes sense.
Like, the woman has to believe you, right?
Yeah.
All right.
I'm going to just, let's, let's just ask AI here, right?
So give me a typical U.S. household budget for two adults and eight children per month.
Let's just, again, I haven't run eight kids myself, but okay, it varies, of course, significantly by location and so on.
And we'll give you low-end and thrifty, right?
$2,500 at the high end of the low-end and thrifty.
So $2,500 for mortgage and property tax and insurance, $600 for utilities, food and groceries, $1,800, home-cooked minimal eating out, transportation, gas car payments, insurance, maintenance, $900.
Health insurance and medical, $1,200.
Child-related clothing, school supplies, activities, diapers if young, $700.
Childcare after school, if needed.
I think that's going to be a zero.
Miscellaneous entertainment, $500.
Savings, emergency giving, $500.
total monthly is $9,600.
So, okay, so how much per month income is required for $9,600?
$9,600 per month net.
So you need to make $140,000 to $170,000 a cure.
This is married filing jointly and blah, eight qualifying children.
So you get a child tax credit eligibility and blah, So you get $17,600 or more in child tax credits, reduces or eliminates federal taxes at incomes around $140 to $170,000.
Now, yeah, there's a bunch of stuff that isn't in here, but that's not particularly important because there's no dental here and no eyeglasses or things which some kids, I mean, certainly kids need dental checkups and sometimes they get cavities.
There's nothing in here about glasses.
There's nothing in here about braces, but you know, maybe whatever, right?
So $140 to $170,000, and that's without really much savings, and that's with very low housing costs, which again would assume nothing large or in any kind of metropolitan area or anything like that.
Does that sort of make sense?
$140 to $170?
Yeah.
Yeah, it does.
Okay.
So if you're making a little less than $60,000, right, then let's say you're making, I don't know, $50,000, $150,000.
So you need to triple your income.
And that's a triple is speculative.
I'm sorry?
Well, double is achievable, but triple is definitely too speculative.
Well, yeah, maybe, maybe not.
I mean, you'd be surprised how hard a man, how hard and intelligently a man can work when he's got a bunch of mouths to feed.
It's sort of what we are driven to do, right?
It's what we excel at, is this kind of emergency stuff.
So why do you think you haven't gone through the math so that you're credible when you talk about this kind of stuff?
And listen, I mean, you're a smart guy, you're a math guy.
So, and, you know, that took us all of like 10 minutes, right?
I mean, certainly five minutes with the AI and all of that, right?
Because if you say to a woman, I want eight kids and you make under 60K a year, what's she going to think of you?
That I'm crazy?
Well, you're an idiot.
Now, you're not an idiot.
So there's got to be something else wrong with you.
And I don't want a woman to look at you and think that there's something wrong with you.
So I don't want you going out there talking about at least eight kids on 55K a year because you look like an idiot and you're not an idiot, right?
I figured, yeah.
Okay.
So what's the block here, do you think?
The block.
Well, there's a bunch of blocks.
One is I don't want to risk having a family for just having three or four or even five kids.
No, no, I don't.
What's the block with you being credible?
You actually doing the work so that a woman doesn't look at you and just roll her eyes.
Well, maybe I should have been more honest in the beginning and say that there's at least some space where I live.
So once there's two, three kids there, I don't see a problem.
I mean, the housing cost doesn't have to go up.
And then after that, it's just more mouths to feed.
That was my thinking process.
Right.
But it's not a thinking process.
That's a wishing-guessing process.
Because you also assume it wouldn't be more expensive.
I'm sorry?
Well, I assume the child wouldn't be more expensive than me.
So I just did the numbers for me and figured that diapers weren't going to be a wash because kids eat less.
Yes, that's certainly true, but they're growing too, so they need more breastfeeding, which means your wife is going to need a whackload of calories too.
But anyway, okay, so but you haven't run the numbers, and it would be kind of like if somebody said, I want to open a restaurant that serves 200 people and they hadn't never run the numbers, that would be like a child's wish, right?
Wouldn't it be cool there for, right?
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
So, you know, I want you to help you.
I want to help you get what you want.
And to do that, you need to be believable, right?
Because a woman is putting her entire existence into your hands, which means you better know what you're doing.
Right?
You wouldn't want to get on an airplane with some blind guy saying, I've always dreamt of flying.
Yeah, well, I'm definitely going to work on that.
Okay, good, good.
All right.
Excellent.
Yeah.
Because, okay, so why you the reason we started down this road was you said that you haven't been dating because women don't want to have that many kids.
Is that right?
I don't know if I said that, but that's that's that's the thinking.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know how to find them.
So and I didn't know for a while how to get matches on dating apps or where to go.
And part of that is, you know, laziness.
Okay, do you think, sorry to interrupt, I don't mean to laugh.
Do you think that a woman wants to get married to a guy who wants eight children and he's lazy?
Well, I don't know.
I don't see myself as lazy compared to.
You've used that word to describe yourself a couple of times now.
I'm just going from what you're saying.
Right, right.
I mean, what do you think?
Well, what do you think it's like for a woman if a man says, well, I'm pretty lazy, but I want you to raise eight kids.
I'm pretty lazy, but I'm going to need to triple my income for the bare minimum for eight kids.
You can't be both lazy and want eight kids.
No woman would take that in any way seriously.
Do you see what I mean?
Yes.
Okay.
So why do you think, I mean, you know that, right?
I'm not telling you something you don't know, right?
No.
So why would you be lazy and then say I want eight kids?
And that's just a perfect way to drive women away, right?
I mean, to be honest, I didn't think it would require, you know, more than 60 hours a week.
Sorry, I'm not sure.
I just assumed a full-time job.
Well, I assume the full-time job plus commute and another 10 hours or whatever.
So, and if I'm lazy to the tune of 20 hours a week, I don't think.
I mean, I'm not planning to do that, but you know, I don't think it's such a giant red flag, especially if you're not sorry, if you're not willing to find me.
I'm lost here.
If you're not willing to do well, if I'm not willing to put in more effort to try to find a woman, yeah, if you're not willing to put a lot of effort into find a woman and you say that that makes you lazy, then a woman is going to understand that, right?
If you can't even be bothered to find a woman because you're lazy, then how are you going to raise eight kids?
Which is going to require you to be the exact opposite of lazy.
Well, once you have the eight kids, at least you have the eight kids.
If you spend time looking for a woman, you don't know if it's going to be in vain.
At least when you have the eight kids, you know your efforts are not in vain.
Okay.
So why do you think you haven't dated?
Because I thought the risk of divorce was too high.
And I just hated possibly being in that position where I could be divorced.
Okay.
So then why is that a problem?
If you feel that it's too risky, why is it a problem?
So I don't have a motorcycle because I consider motorcycling too risky.
Right.
So I don't motorcycle.
Well, there would have to be an upside.
Well, of course, there's an upside, otherwise, motorcycles wouldn't exist.
Yeah, well, so if you say it's too risky to get married, then that's your choice.
So then I'm not sure how I can help.
Okay, so what happened over the past couple of years is that I felt it was too risky, but I kept looking into it, listening to your show.
And over time, I started getting a working model, at least that was working in my head, that made me feel that I could get the risk down to the point where I would be willing to have eight kids and more than willing.
And I started putting more effort to do it.
But to be honest, yeah, of course, I could have put in more effort.
Sorry, so when was it that you decided that the risk could be lowered?
I'd say about like, oh, could be lowered.
I mean, I've always assumed that it could be lowered.
No, no, but lowered to the point where you'd be willing to do it.
I'd say about three years ago.
Okay, so about three years ago, you decided that you could lower the risk to the point where you could have you could get married.
Is that right?
Yeah.
Okay.
So why haven't you been dating for the last three years if you can lower your risk and to the point where you could get married?
I didn't think I could find someone who would want to have as many children as I would want as my minimum, as far as intentions at the base.
Okay, so then if you can't find women who want eight or more kids, I'm not sure how I can help you.
Well, I can't wait for those women right from my lair in Canada.
Yeah, well, I think I found them.
I know how to get them now.
I don't want to be specific for this call.
Okay.
So you can find, so now you've lowered the risk three years ago, and now you found a place where you can find, well, you can get women who want that many kids.
Yes.
Okay.
So again, how can I help?
Well, my concern is that they almost certainly would want to get legal marriage.
Everyone in their community would insist on it.
And you'd be insane.
Like a woman would be insane to have eight kids without legal protections.
Well, she has legal protections regardless, and I consider them very high.
And that's why I don't think she should require legal marriage.
Sorry, what would her legal protections be without marriage?
Child support.
She'll probably get the house too.
Okay, so wouldn't that be the, I mean, what else is she going to get with marriage?
More of that.
I just assume she's going to get even more.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Have you looked into it?
Well, the laws vary from state to state, and I don't know where I'm going to be, where I'm going to find.
Have you looked into it at all?
I have.
I have looked at she gets more if she's married.
That's my conclusion.
Okay.
So, okay, so what percentage more does she get if she's married?
I don't know.
30%.
Wait, are you guessing or have you looked it up?
I am guessing.
Bro, you said you'd looked it up.
Yeah, but I might make things more like that.
I mean, that's kind of rude, isn't it?
That would be rude.
So listen, if you haven't, we can go look it up.
I mean, I have no problem with that.
I just.
Yeah, to be fair, I haven't looked specifically precisely at that question.
Okay, let's go.
Let's go look it up.
This is the joys of AI, right?
At least, you know, it's not perfect, but it's not a bad place.
It is cheap.
Two stars.
Okay.
All right.
If a woman has eight kids with a man and they separate in the U.S., in the US, how much more money could she get if they were married?
Legally married, let's say legally married.
Dump, dump, dumb.
Married women may receive higher child support and separations due to imputed income and alimony considerations.
Divorce from marriage adds potential alimony and asset division, boosting her financial support.
So let's see what we've got here.
Shakespearewm.com.
Would Shakespeare be involved in this?
It's going to come out in Iambic Pentameter.
Asset division in marriage is child support guidelines often cap for multiple kids varying by state and income.
Alimony averages range from $500 to $1,300 monthly, potentially larger.
It's so funny, like how like, oh, this is too slow.
It's like, this would be like half a day of research otherwise.
Yeah.
All right.
Percentage model select Wisconsin's cap of 34% of growth for five or more children, $4,250 monthly for $150K income.
Alimony could reach $2,000 to $4,000 monthly for a long marriage with eight kids.
I guess if you've got eight kids, you've automatically kind of got along a long marriage, right?
Yeah.
Now, of course, if a woman's going to have eight kids with you, you've really got to screw things up in order to have her divorce you because she's going to be kind of undatable with eight kids, right?
Well, I don't know.
Would she even care about that?
Well, I don't know.
She just wants the money and independence.
Well, yeah, but I'm just saying that she also would have no one in her life, probably would have no one in her life to love her.
Okay.
To be all fair, I don't really understand why people divorce.
So I don't really talk about it.
Financial outcomes for a woman separating from a man with whom she has eight children depend heavily on whether they were legally married.
The state of residence, each parent's income, custody arrangements, blah, blah, blah.
Okay, key differences.
Child support.
Both married and unmarried people are legally obligated to support their children until age 18 or 19 to 21.
Some states have in school.
Calculated based on state guidelines, blah, blah, blah.
National average, $430 per month per case, often one to two kids.
But for kids on $150K income, it's higher.
California, California is kind of crazy, right?
So Texas, about $3K a month.
New York, $4 to $5K a month.
Some states cap it at five kids.
Alimony, spousal support, unmarried, generally none, unless a rare palimony claim in states like California, blah, blah, blah.
Often awarded to stay-at-home parents.
So if married, $1,500 to $3K a month ongoing potentially for years.
Division of assets, unmarried, no automatic rights.
She only gets what's in her name, jointly titled, shared bank account, or proven as hers.
If the house car is in his name, she might get nothing beyond child support.
Cohabitation agreements are rare.
Okay, so I'm just trying to get down to the net net here.
So total estimated more money if legally married.
Monthly ongoing, $1,500 to $3,000 more, mainly alimony on top of child support.
So it looks something like that.
Again, none of this is sort of legal advice.
This is just from AI.
And of course, you could get more if you have if assets are shared and so on.
So yeah, so it looks like the net net is going to be between 1,500 and 3,000 more, mainly alimony on top of child support, excluding the sort of property stuff.
So that's what you're looking at.
Does that surprise you?
Sorry, what's the percentage increase?
Oh, I don't know, but I'm saying that it looks like they're saying that you're monthly ongoing $1,500 to $3,000 more on top of child support, mainly alimony, if you're legally married.
If they're not married, she might still negotiate informally or sue for unjust enrichment, so on.
Anyway, but success is low.
Sorry, go ahead.
Yeah, it seems.
I mean, did they assume the income of the man?
Did they put the assumption in there?
Well, I'll let you.
It's like pages and pages of stuff, but I think they were talking 100%.
No, it doesn't surprise me too much.
Okay.
It does seem a little bit high, though, but I mean, it is a big range, $1,500 to $3,000.
So $1,500 to $3,000 extra if you're married.
Okay.
Now, how is she going to survive if she's homeschooling eight kids and you divorce her?
Let's say for some reason, right?
She's going to live on child support?
Is that the idea?
How much was the child support?
Oh, again, it varies.
So you would not want to give her any extra for homeschooling your kids because she's going to need to do that.
She can't work, right?
Well, when I looked at the tables in one of the states of Canada for how much they would get for child support, it seemed like more than enough on child support alone.
Okay.
So then you would pay her just the child support and she would live on that, right?
I guess.
I mean, I don't really think.
How often do men divorce?
Okay, 20.
Yeah, I guess it could happen.
I mean, general.
Okay.
All right.
If I understand this correctly, you've never really dated, but you're concerned about $1,500 to $3,000 a month if you get divorced with eight children.
Well, also the asset division.
Sure, sure.
Okay.
Yeah, but I mean, there's things you can do about that, have the assets in your mother's name or whatever it is, right?
Okay.
Parents might die, but yeah.
Or someone.
Yeah, someone.
There might be some ways.
Okay, so you're concerned about asset division and $1,500 to $3,000 a month.
I assume.
Well, it's not so much that I'm concerned about that.
It's more that I thought that the default not married is unjust and that people would demand that the arrangement be made even more unjust in favor of the stay-at-home parent.
So when I looked at the child support figures, my opinion was that they were a lot higher than what it cost to raise children, especially if you only have a few.
Have eight, it's probably different.
I know, for example, in Canada, you get $500 a month per child for a while.
And that's more than I've ever ate in a month.
So I know I didn't cost that much.
Yeah, but of course, childhood is more than just food, right?
Well, I wish it was.
Maybe that's my problem in my equation.
I haven't really factored much more than that.
I just put food and then some extra and winged it.
Yeah, I mean, I assume you want your kids to be involved in sports of some kind, right?
Well, they could just, you know, go outside.
That's my assumption.
I figured that a lot of the quality of childhood came from the relationship with the parents, quality of relationship with the parents, and that material resources were quite a bit secondary to that.
Okay.
So your major concern is whether you get married or not and whether you get divorced in 15 to 20 years.
Yeah.
Do you understand how nuts this sounds from the outside?
I am very aware that wanting to have a lot of kids sounds.
I've got no problem with that.
Do you know what sounds...
I'm not saying you're nuts, but do you know how nuts this sound from the outside?
That you're concerned about a potential divorce with eight children in 15 to 20 years when you don't even date.
It's just like somebody who's never had a job trying to figure out what they're going to do with $10 million.
Well, I do date now, but it's only very recent.
Okay, so tell me about your dating recently.
I got it.
Because I did ask you when you last time.
I was able to meet with a woman.
I was able to meet with a woman twice.
Okay, so you've met with a woman twice, and how's that gone?
I got some hugs, but I'm not expecting much.
I probably didn't do very well.
Okay, so you're not having any success with dating.
No, let's.
Okay.
And you've been in the dating market well over a decade.
Yeah.
So you can't even get a relationship and you're concerned about a divorce?
That seems related, yeah.
But do you understand that's kind of crazy, right?
Well, if I really wanted to get a relationship, I'm sure I could.
If you really wanted to get a relationship, you're sure you could.
Yeah, but I seriously doubt that being in a relationship right now would be a good idea because if I do find someone that I'm really interested in and I'm already in a relationship, that doesn't look really good, but unless I never tell them about it and then end the other relationship.
Well, okay, you can get a bad relationship, but we're talking about a good relationship, right?
Yeah.
Well, I assume that the kind of woman who would even consider doing what I want to do would be quite rare.
So, you know, dating and finding that particular person are quite separate things in my mind.
Okay, so have you ever met a woman who wants this who's available?
Yes, I've met a few.
Okay, and how's that gone?
Since they didn't really know me, I did not push too much for it, but I did talk to two.
I didn't leave a good impression as far as I know.
One of them found some other guy interesting and went with him, and the other one was not interested in any guy.
She did call me back, but she said she just wanted to be a friend, which did put me off quite a bit.
So I didn't invest much in that.
And so that fell through.
Okay.
But I now have a way to meet more of them.
So I'm just going to keep figuring it out until I get one.
However, I'm having some cold feet regarding this issue with the marriage thing.
Bro, you can't even get a relationship.
You can't get a relationship with the woman that you want.
You can't get a relationship.
And you're running out of time.
Do you know why?
I have ideas, but I'd like to hear yours.
Well, because if you want eight or more kids, the woman's going to have to start at the latest in her early 20s.
So you're already looking for a woman five years younger.
And as you move forward in time, that age gap is only going to increase.
Yeah.
How does that affect me?
I mean, I've been concerned about it, but I want to hear what you think.
Well, that's common, right?
I mean, age gaps are fine.
I don't have a huge issue with them and all of that, but there's not a lot of women who are 20 or 21 who want to just settle down with a guy who's 30 plus and start pumping out kids.
I mean, you're just lowering your odds the bigger the age gap because you're already asking for a woman who wants eight or more kids without you being able to show much income at all.
And it doesn't even come close to working mathematically at the moment.
So and you're asking for a woman who's already very rare and then you're going to throw in what a 10-year age gap if you keep waiting?
He's just not throwing the other side.
What would be a reasonable amount of income?
Well, you can listen to the callback again.
We've already gone through all of this, right?
So.
Well, for the large number of kids, okay.
Yeah, so we've, yeah, we already went through this.
So I'm just saying that you're daydreaming about your concerns, and I say this with the affection and really in the spirit of really wanting to help, but your concerns about a potential divorce in 15 or 20 years is not comprehensible given that you can't even get more than two dates.
So if I do find that woman I'm looking for and we are in a serious relationship together, and then I call you, yeah, and of course, you know, if you get with the right woman and you say, listen, I want to have eight or more kids.
I'm going to provide the income.
I really want you to homeschool and she's down for that.
Then you say, listen, divorce is not an option.
Whatever problems we have, we're going to work them out.
Right?
I mean, that's what I did with my wife, and it works fine.
Yeah, that definitely helped to see that.
Because I did remember noticing that you married your wife more than 10 years ago and noticing with time.
More than 25 years together and so on.
It's been over 20 years.
Sure, but when I started listening to your show.
Oh, yeah.
So you think you just, you know, you just marry a woman who takes her vows seriously.
That's all.
You marry a woman with integrity who, when she says, I do, it's like, I really, really do.
I absolutely do.
And you're going to require a level of commitment to you and to the marriage if she's going to have eight or more children.
You're going to require a level of commitment to the marriage as a whole.
That is very significant.
And so if she leaves you and there's custody problems with the eight kids, worrying about $1,500 a month or $3,000 a month is the least of your problems.
Well, it could be enough to, if it's the least of my problems, it could be enough to make it a lot worse.
Well, no, I mean, because you'll only be seeing your eight children half the time at best.
And I think that's going to be a bit more emotionally devastating than $1,500 a month.
My concern is that the $1,500 to $3,000 extra a month would increase the chance of divorce as well.
Okay, well, then you shouldn't get married to a woman who you think would leave you if she's got eight children, would leave you for $1,500 or more a month.
And you also shouldn't think that you're that replaceable that she looks at you and she looks at a couple of grand a month and says, I choose the couple of grand a month.
That means that she doesn't love you or doesn't care about you, which means she's not even really going to date you, let alone give you eight children.
Yeah, I think the last part is reassuring.
Good, good.
But yeah, I mean, honestly, you know, don't worry about the summit of the mountain when you have trouble getting your boots on.
Like, I'll definitely get yourself dating first.
Sorry, go ahead.
Yeah, I'm definitely going to make some progress on all this, and I'll try to get another call in.
Yeah, yeah.
Once you get into a relationship and it's a woman that you want to settle down with, I'd be happy to talk to you, you and her, and so on.
I think that would be great.
And I certainly wish you the best in your search.
But yeah, don't worry too much about all of the stuff that might or might not happen 15 to 20 years down the road, but focus instead on getting dates with quality women.
And that means having answers as to how all of this is going to work.
Okay.
Thank you.
You're very welcome, my friend.
I appreciate the call.
Yeah.
Would we have time to touch on one of the other questions?
No, I think there's been a good because there's a lot of stuff for people to digest.
But if we talk again, you can bring the other question back up.