Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux - Do Women Get Angry? Twitter/X Space

Dec. 23, 2025 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

02:14:09

Do Women Get Angry? Twitter/X Space

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	Hello, hello, my friends.
	How are you doing this evening?
	It is Seventh Maloney from FreeDomain, shop.freedomain.com for your merch and peacefulparenting.com for a very, very good book on parenting and free domain.com slash tonight to help out the show.
	And I am keen to hear from you.
	I had something set up for tonight.
	I had a cancellation that, well, not even a cancellation, just a plain old no-show.
	It's rude, but it happens.
	And I've tried not to be overly judgmental because Lord knows I've forgotten a thing or two over the course of my life.
	So I certainly have a topic.
	I have a topic.
	But my topic is you.
	My topic of your questions, your comments, your issues.
	What might be most helpful to you with regards to philosophy as a whole?
	And if you want to talk, then please feel free to do so.
	You can raise your hand and raise your elbow.
	You can even raise your butt if you're doing yoga.
	And I will try not to give you a Me Too moment except with wisdom and philosophy.
	So, I mean, I do have kind of a topic, but I just want to wait in case anybody's got a yearning burning that a doctor has not seen that they wanted to bear publicly on a philosophy show.
	So if you have something, I'll just wait for a second or two because it's a funny thing.
	For those of you who don't know how to put this, so for you, those of you who don't know, I used to be fairly meaty and substantial in libertarian circles.
	I even had a giant roast of me at Porkfest many years ago.
	And I used to go to a lot of conferences and do a lot of speaking and met, obviously, a lot of people and so on.
	Although I would say that I never got particularly close to people.
	I never got particularly close to people.
	And there could be a bunch of reasons for that, not particularly important now.
	But anyway, I was talking to someone I knew back in the day who shall remain nameless.
	I will refer to them as the last digit of Pi.
	Ooh, now I want Pi.
	Anyway, I was talking to somebody from back in the day.
	And this person, we'll call him/slash/her Pi, Pi said about Anarcho-Pulco.
	Have you guys heard about this?
	Anarcho Pulco.
	So Anarcho-Pulco was, and I assume still is, a conference that started in Jeff Berwick's domain.
	Jeff Berwick, the dollar vigilante, is somebody, I've done a couple of shows with him.
	He interviewed me at Porkfest about UPB, and he's been running Anarcho-Pulco since 2015.
	Anyway, so somebody, this person, Pi, that I was talking to a couple of days ago, mentioned that there was a documentary about good old Anarcho Pulco.
	And I was intrigued because, look, I've known people in the movement for quite a long time.
	The movement of freedom, libertarianism, anarcho-capitalism, whatever you want to call it.
	The liberty movement, the liberty movement.
	And I've also known people who've gotten involved with documentarians.
	And let me tell you, my friends, let me tell you, the people who got involved with documentarians who were in the freedom movement, oh, they did not do very well as a whole.
	They did not do very well as a whole.
	And so this person who I chatted with mentioned about this documentarian who had spent six years covering Anarcho-Pulco from 2000 to 2020, sorry, 2015 to 2020, sort of inclusive, and that there was a documentary about it.
	And I, you know, I suppose as you get into the slow or not so slow downward slide of life, you get a little bit sentimental about remembrance of things past in the Marcel Praust tradition.
	So I thought, gosh, wouldn't that be interesting to see people that I've worked with before, to see people that I met at conferences and how things went with regards to anarcho-pulco.
	And if memory serves, and I don't have a particularly strong memory this way, but if memory serves, I was invited, but I think I was off doing my own documentaries at the time of the clash or for some reason.
	Jeff Berwick and I never particularly warmed to each other.
	I remember having dinner with him years ago and just not feeling any particular connection.
	You know, there's some people who, you know, they're hard on their sleeves, they're available, they've got that liveliness.
	And there are other people who are kind of opaque and you kind of half see them through the fog.
	And that was sort of my experience with Mr. Berwick, who, I mean, had himself a very tragic childhood.
	I'm not telling tales out of school.
	This has gone into directly.
	In the documentary, he said that his own father did not say more than 30 words really to him over the course of his own childhood.
	And so I never went.
	I never went.
	But yeah, it is still running.
	It's going to be in Puerto Voiata, February 15th to 20th, 2026.
	So I booted up this documentary.
	You can get it on Crave, C-R-A-V-E.
	I booted up this documentary.
	There's a six-part documentary on the liberty movement.
	And it's a little bit frustrating for me, just because I know the ideas and arguments that are behind anarcho-capitalism, the non-aggression principle.
	And Mike Sunovich was saying that the non-aggression principle was invented.
	And I understand sort of what he means by that.
	It's not written in stone by the gods.
	But the non-aggression principle, which is to not initiate force against others, is the only logically consistent moral position.
	Now, of course, there's lots of people who don't care for logical consistency, but it is, in fact, really the only logically consistent moral system.
	And if you care about logic and you care about consistency, you have to follow the non-aggression principle as an ideal.
	If you don't care about those things, then you can just drag humanity by the bloody umbilical rope of force into the endless moor and hellscape of violence, which, you know, looks like we're heading that way anyway.
	Hopefully, hopefully we'll have a bounce somewhere down the road, but looks like we're sliding down to the pit of violence because the postmodernists have succeeded in removing rational consistency as a requirement for human thought and human communication.
	Oh, Hobeth.
	Hello.
	Love your work.
	So because the postmodernists have stripped the requirement for logical consistency from human communication, and they do that not because not because they care about freedom, not because they have any particular moral or rational objections to these things, but because they wish to substitute violence for reason in human relations.
	I don't know if you've ever known people like this.
	I've met some over the course of my storied existence, but holy shyster balls, Batman, some people really love violence.
	They love, you can understand obvious evolutionary reasons why this might come to pass or be, but some people really love violence, and they want to have it.
	They want to promote it.
	They want to get it.
	And it's funny because the people who promote violence in the abstract intellectual sense tend to be the most tubby, pasty, out of shape, lardy, spineless, boneless, jelly beasts in the known universe.
	The most physically incompetent, pimply-faced, wide-assed, gaming chair, sticky, fart, velcro-bodied people that you could possibly conceive of.
	But boy, oh boy, do they love violence.
	And violence becomes inevitable, really, when you prevent people from reproducing.
	And this is why you have, you know, all of this money that's taken from the productive and given to the unproductive.
	And of course, this article that came out recently just about how horrendous 2014 plus was for white males in the former, the sort of smoking ash and ruins of the former free market that you had Larry Fink and BlackRock and lots of other investment companies absolutely fucking demanding that white males be excluded from jobs.
	And that's terrible.
	I mean, it's terrible in a way that can scarcely be conceived of.
	Because, see, in the past, when they wanted to get you, in the past, what they did was they drafted you, they gave you a gun and they pointed it at other sad saps like you and said, well, only one of you comes out alive.
	Only one of you gets to reproduce.
	Shoot him or he shoots you, and then that's it.
	But at least you had a fighting fucky chance.
	All of this weird rug-pulling shit where you just send in your resumes and don't get anything back and you can't quite figure it out.
	You take a job, but then you get replaced by an H-1B, but then you take another job, but then you get replaced by someone else who's getting weird subsidies from the government to buy out businesses.
	And then you try something else and it gets rug-pulled again.
	And then like all of this sort of stuff, it's really like a soft erasure of an entire community.
	Entire community.
	Wild stuff.
	Horrendous stuff.
	And the postmodernists like that.
	They like that.
	It's really important to get people married off in society.
	I mean, in order to have any kind of stable society, because if you don't get people married off, do you know what their genes say?
	Fuck it.
	We got nothing to lose.
	Fuck it.
	And if you prevent people from reproducing, or make it very hard for them to reproduce, or make the conditions of their reproduction fairly horrendous, then what happens is the genes say, we have nothing to lose.
	And this is why preventing entire groups from getting jobs, starting careers, paying off debt, forming families.
	And it's half the government and half the boomers, right, to be honest, not just because the boomers, but the boomers vote for this kind of intergalactic arsehole, because also because the boomers are setting fire to their money in an orgy of self-indulgent hedonism before they finally get tipped into the graves by the inevitabilities of time.
	The boomers.
	So there was a friend who used to play Dungeons ⁇ Dragons back in the day when I was in my early teens.
	And oh, the nights of arguing over rules, rolling dice, making jokes, and stuffing our faces with flat, greasy pizza and Arc-Cola.
	Arc-Cola was all we could afford, and it's the cheapest battery acid to clean out your liver with a flamethrower kind of drink that you could get.
	And we had a friend, it's not his real name, I call him Bob.
	And Bob was cheap, man.
	Bob was cheap.
	Man, yeah.
	Hey, don't get me wrong.
	I'm kind of cheap.
	I mean, I have checked my entire lineage for Scottish heritage.
	I don't like to spend the money.
	I'm pretty cheap myself.
	But this guy, you know, you know, when you're a little bit good at something and then you meet someone who's really good at something, it's like, I bow down before you.
	I'm not worthy.
	I'm not worthy.
	You know, if you have a karaoke, it's like, yeah, I did that song all right.
	And then someone comes up with a voice like an angel crying in your ear, and you're like, okay, okay, you win, you win.
	So this was me with Bob.
	I thought I was cheap.
	Bob, we used to make these jokes, like, oh, here's the sound of Bob opening his wallet.
	Oh, my God, there's so much dust.
	The moths fly out.
	And one of the ferocious arguments we got into with Bob playing for DD one night was that we each owed $4 for a pizza.
	And Bob had a $4 coupon and was absolutely insistent that this was his contribution.
	To which, of course, people said, well, what if other people had coupons?
	There's only 1%, but they don't anyway.
	So it was kind of like, it was an interesting, interesting argument about economics.
	But Bob, being one of the cheapest skinflints conceivable, has nothing on the boomer.
	I had nothing on Bob, and Bob has nothing on the boomers, the boomers.
	Oh my gosh.
	Like somebody was writing the other day on X about how, well, you know, if your house doubles in value, that's a real asset.
	It's like, it's not.
	It's not a real asset.
	It's bullshit.
	It's made-up nonsense.
	Hey, the price of everything has doubled, and the value of your house has doubled.
	Therefore, your house is worth exactly what it was before.
	It's sort of like you can imagine that if the universe was doubling in size every 10 seconds, but everything was doubling in size, you wouldn't even know it because everything you could use to measure would also be doubling in size.
	But people said, well, you know, but your kids inherited.
	It's like, okay, okay.
	So let's say you have kids at 30, you live to 85, right?
	Well, that's 55 years, but your kids don't get access to the house, right?
	So by the time your kids are 55, maybe they get a house.
	Maybe they get a house.
	When mass immigration has stacked people like Courtwood all up and down the street, you ever see those cottages where they've got the firewood for the entire winter?
	Massive amounts.
	Oh, you might be lucky to inherit a house when you're 55.
	What the fuck good does that do you?
	55.
	55?
	Meanwhile, since 20, since 20, you've been out there paying exorbitant rents, being unable to buy a house or even a condo, having roommates into your 40s because you got to eat.
	But don't worry.
	Don't worry, kids.
	When you're 55, you might inherit a larger house.
	Can you sell that house?
	No.
	Why?
	Because if the price of housing has gone up enormously, selling your house gets you nothing.
	Why?
	Because you still need a place to live and everything's crazy expensive.
	Well, maybe you sell a big house or a bigger house and you go down to a cargo or something like that, but the ratio hasn't changed.
	Your house has gone up four times in value.
	Oh, oh, guess what?
	You know what else has gone up four times in value or more because it's downtown probably?
	The condo.
	You've gained nothing.
	Your kids have lost everything.
	Because, and it's tough, man, because you're used to this constant upward flow, right?
	We're going to make more than our parents.
	You know, the birth rate now is lower than in the great fucking depression.
	25% unemployment, the Dust Bowl, people eating pets, government programs up the yin-yang.
	The birth rate now is lower.
	It's not just about money.
	It's not just about money.
	But Boomers grew up in a different world and simply refused to adjust.
	Now, of course, I've had my ass kicked and fairly so, like rightly so, because I had a little over half a decade off major social media.
	So when I came back, oh, let me just tell you that the landscape had shifted.
	Oh, not just a little bit.
	It really has been the biggest shift in the mental landscape from when I was kicked off major social media platforms in 2020 to when I came back in 2025.
	I mean, it's an entirely different planet.
	And I did post to say thank you to everyone for being patient with me as I sort of adjust my mental goggles.
	All the stuff that was staggeringly radical when I was talking about it 10, 15, 20 years ago is now fairly commonplace.
	Maybe I had a tiny little bit to do with that, but it's an impressive thing nonetheless to see just how much the landscape has changed to something approaching sanity.
	Now, it could be that the leftists have got everything they wanted so they could let us torment each other with things we can't change, facts that will have no effect on things, but nonetheless, but nonetheless, it's good to be able to talk about them,
	even if all we're doing is laying the Pompeii-like frozen statue foundations of truth so that people can understand the pantomime of what went wrong in the next cycle of civilization, should we be able to get a hold of one after AI and surveillance tracks us without the high physical labor overhead of former totalitarian regimes.
	But hey, maybe the purpose of capitalism was to deliver surveillance methods to totalitarians so we can never be free.
	But maybe space aliens will come across and free us at some point.
	It's a short story I wrote many, many years ago called Space Aliens from Luxembourg.
	So I was looking at this conference stuff and it's some sad stuff, man.
	It's some sad stuff.
	Radical communities are full of broken people.
	I'm not putting anyone here in that category.
	So radical communities are full of broken people.
	And I mean, I would say, I would argue that we're all broken to some degree or another.
	You can slow it up, but you still feel the tear.
	And, you know, maybe some of us are broken.
	I hope.
	Some of us are broken, like how muscles get broken because you've got to tear muscles.
	You've got to tear muscle fiber in order to build muscle.
	That's why it hurts sometimes.
	Like you work a muscle to failure and it's because it's dying in order to be resurrected as something slightly larger.
	It's like shooting your dick to get a permanent boner.
	I don't understand biology.
	It's kind of how it works.
	I'm no expert.
	But some of us are broken in a way that makes us stronger.
	And some of us are broken in a way that makes us weaker.
	And a lot of people run to the liberty movement to get away from responsibility and consequences.
	And a lot of people run to the liberty movement because they want to do a lot of drugs to self-medicate bad childhoods.
	And OMG, the bad childhoods that are revealed in this.
	There's sort of two main characters, a young man and a young woman.
	The young woman's mother was mentally ill, a drug addict, five kids by five different fathers, eventually got so crazed on drugs, she ran out into a highway and got hit by two vehicles and finally creamed by a third, a semi.
	And that was her childhood.
	And her boyfriend, well, her boyfriend's father killed himself when he was one years old.
	And then he was, you know, the young boy, the little boy, the toddler, was diagnosed with a whole bunch of, what was it, manic depressive or the new, I can't remember the new, the lithium stuff right there.
	And nobody really looks into what happens to these people's childhoods.
	They just look at the oddities that they appear to have grown into.
	And yeah, they're interested in liberty.
	And what they really want is liberty from rules.
	A lot of people are drawn to voluntarism or anarchy because they think it means no rules when it really means no rulers, which means you have to have self-rule.
	So I would recommend watching it.
	It's very interesting.
	It's quite sad.
	It's quite sad, but it's well worth watching to lift a lid.
	I mean, there's a murderer.
	There is a kind of suicide.
	A guy drinks himself to death.
	He was a former organizer of the meetup.
	There's, of course, the crypto rise and fall that went on 2015 to 2020.
	There's the crypto rise and fall.
	People are in the money and then they're out of the money and they spend like crazy and then they're broke.
	And it's, yeah, it's really, it's quite a, it's quite a tale.
	And it's called, it's called the anarchists and you can get it on X. All right.
	So let's get to you, the callers.
	Brad, Bradacle.
	Sorry, just Brad.
	If you want to unmute, I'm all in.
	So, hey, Stevan.
	Long time listener.
	First time speaking to you.
	Is there any particular topics or are we just allowed to ask any questions?
	You are entirely in the driver's seat, my friend.
	I will speak on just about whatever you like.
	Okay, thanks.
	So maybe about Bitcoin.
	Do you think Bitcoin long term can succeed as, you know, like the greatest system of money or, you know, the best, you know, purest form of capital or hard money system if the majority of people don't aren't reading Murray Rothbard or Sebanina Mus or that sort of thing or getting into Austrian economics or that sort of stuff.
	Does it require mass adoption in that way?
	Because a big question.
	Let me make sure I understand it at its detail.
	So are you saying, or are you asking, can Bitcoin become a standard currency that's going to displace and hopefully replace government gunpoint fiat currency if the majority of people don't understand anarcho-capitalism or sound money theories and so on?
	Yeah, sure.
	Basically, yeah.
	I think a lot of people.
	How old are you?
	I'm 30.
	30, okay.
	So you weren't around for the email revolution.
	How many people who switched from physical mail to email understood TCPIP?
	Probably there is you.
	I don't understand myself.
	Okay.
	How many people who switched from rotary dial phones wired into the wall to cell phones understand cell phone technology?
	Again, for probably a very small percentage of people who use cell phones.
	Okay.
	How many people who like self-driving cars understand computer code or how the self-driving car operates?
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I'm sure it's... I'm sorry, that's...
	I'm just sort of pointing out that general understanding of abstract principles and scientific facts is certainly not required if the technology is user-friendly enough.
	So when I first got on the internet, it was like an infinite DOS.
	You had to type everything.
	And there were a few people who were kind of building graphical layers over that, but they were sort of few and far between and very sort of specialized and localized.
	And I remember it was a college roommate of mine who I was visiting at Simon Fraser University way back in the day who showed me a web page, HTML, and I literally got goosebumps all over my body.
	Like, this is going to change absolutely everything.
	But you now have an infinite library of human access from thought to thought.
	And that's one of the reasons I kind of got into tech was a sort of an understanding of just how powerful that was going to be.
	And people liked web pages, but they didn't know HTML.
	So a knowledge of the reasons why a Bitcoin is better and understanding of blockchain technology is not needed for wide-scale adoption.
	What is needed for wide-scale adoption is hatred.
	Hatred of war, hatred of the parasitical classes, generally the rich and the poor that feast off the stolid bourgeois labor of the middle classes.
	What is going to be needed is a whole bunch of hatred at the masters and manipulators of mankind who pull the puppet strings of money all the time and feast on the productivity of the species as a whole to keep most for themselves, to buy some votes, and to enjoy the cockfighting spectacle of, God help us, Europe going to war with Russia.
	So we're just going to have to summon a lot of hatred.
	This is one of the reasons why hatred is such a negative emotion at the moment.
	Oh, that person's so full of hate.
	Well, why not?
	Say there's nothing to hate in this world.
	My God, hatred is a healthy emotion.
	Hatred is the immune system of a violated conscience.
	I mean, if you've got a cancer forming in your colon, don't you want your immune system to hate that shit?
	This is why, oh, hate speech.
	Oh, this person is seething.
	Oh, they're so full of hatred.
	It's like, my God.
	I don't trust anyone who can't experience the emotion of hatred because it means they have no capacity for virtue and they have the protection instincts of your average carcass open intestines sunward on the African veld.
	So people are just going to have to get off their asses and start hating the exploiters and controllers of mankind.
	And so I think people just need to get angry at how much they've been exploited.
	You know, I mean, don't you get pissed?
	I'm sure you do.
	I'm sure people here do.
	I mean, at everything, they change the rules on you all the time.
	They change the interest rate on you all the time.
	They change the money supply.
	They take your money by force to promote things that are directly against your self-interest and your family's self-interest.
	And they change the rules on everything all the time.
	And they lie all the time.
	I mean, there's this big thing coming out in the UK at the moment where they're saying, well, we got to start sending 11-year-old boys to anti-misogyny re-education camps.
	It's like, but the government covered up the mass rape of children for decades.
	Little girls, little girls.
	And now they're going to say, well, you know, it's really, really important that we respect women.
	Well, I think it is important to respect women, which is why they should have done something about these endless rapes across Europe, half a million or more girls.
	So I think it is just about tapping into people's hatred of being exploited.
	And yet people are very uncomfortable with the emotion of hatred.
	They think that if you hate something, you get violent.
	And I mean, I'm sure that's true for really volatile people or maybe not intelligent people.
	But if you're an intelligent person and you hate, then you just plan, you communicate, you are clear about the morality of the system or the evils of the system we're currently trapped in.
	And people are going to have to close their hearts.
	You know, it's good and great to have an open heart to people who you care about.
	It's good and great to have an open heart to people who are also sympathetic and empathetic towards you.
	But there are like half the citizens in many countries around the world these days are living off the economic juggulars of the other half.
	And this is just not a sustainable situation.
	You know, the idea behind charity is there's a whole bunch of people with a lot of strength and shoulders and they can carry a few people in a cart.
	But as the government takes over, quote, charity and turns it into the welfare state, which is just vote buying and the degradation of poorer neighborhoods, you end up with more and more people on the cart.
	And finally, there's like one guy and one woman just straining and pulling at the cart while everyone's just yelling and screaming and calling them, I don't know, sexist, racist, homophobic, misogynist, whatever.
	And eventually you just have to say, no, I mean, we're done.
	We're done with this.
	This is not working.
	This is terrible.
	And people are going to get very angry.
	You're going to get very angry.
	And we saw what happened in America when the sort of free government food stuff was even potentially threatened.
	People just went nuts.
	And it's, you know, unfortunately, we've got a lot of people addicted to one of the worst drugs in the known universe, which is fiat currency.
	And the cure is Bitcoin.
	But people are going to have to start having some pride in their productivity, which means having less and less patience with the emotional manipulation that come from those who are dependent on them.
	And again, I'm not talking about violence or anything like that.
	I'm just talking about clarity, planning, and moral certainty.
	So I hope that's not too long a speech, but it's not that people have to understand Murray Rothbard or Hayek or von Mises or any of the other great thinkers in the liberty movement.
	But people are going to have to start getting angry at being exploited in this kind of way.
	You know, you put your, you ever get that?
	I'm sure you've had this where you got your first real paycheck.
	You know, that wasn't like, I don't know, for me, like a paper root or a waiter.
	I got my first real paycheck when I worked in an office.
	And it's like, oh my God, I thought I was getting X amount of dollars and it's like nothing.
	And I was like, yeah, my first job, $40,000 a year.
	My first real job.
	That's good money.
	It's good money.
	So I did the architect, 20 bucks an hour, 40 hours a week.
	That's like 800 bucks a week.
	Man, it's 16, 3,200 bucks.
	That's great, man.
	And then you get these fucking scraps after everyone's got their fingers in your pie.
	You're left with three bits of crust.
	Oh, and then you take that stuff home and, oh, I got to pay tax on everything I buy.
	Oh, oh, well, I bet you half my rent is property taxes.
	Oh, oh, I've got to pay taxes on the heating.
	And you're nothing.
	You're left with scraps, nothing.
	People at some point have to get tired of it and work peacefully and reasonably for something different.
	And boy, oh boy, is Bitcoin a beautiful off-ramp for that.
	And people are just going to have to recognize that the road ahead leads off a cliff and you got to get off that and get onto something else.
	Does that make sense?
	Hopefully that helps.
	And feel free to poke holes in whatever I've said or ask anything else.
	Thanks.
	Yeah, that's very interesting.
	Yeah.
	You know, I think fiat currency is behind so many of the evils and the depraved things that you just talked about, you know, at the root of all of that.
	And I've thought Bitcoin is such a beautiful sound money system and such a great protocol to unwind a lot of that.
	But there's part of me that's always thought, you know, okay, like I can't expect, you know, 99% of the population to be kind of, you know, pointy-headed Austrian economists like that.
	But no, what you just laid out is a pretty interesting perspective.
	If you had a serum that gave people immortality or had them live for a thousand years, Methuselah style, would you start by handing them a book on the biochemistry of how it all operated?
	Would you start selling it that way?
	No, I'd probably start marketing it and selling it as to how great you could die for eternal youth and immortality.
	Okay, so what would you say?
	And this doesn't mean I'm right.
	I just, I was a marketing professional for some years.
	So what would you say to sell a potion of immortality?
	You know, you can drink this and live healthy forever.
	Yeah, okay, but that's not very emotional.
	What is people's biggest fear other than public speaking?
	It's dying.
	Sure, yeah.
	Right.
	Don't you hate that you have to die?
	Don't you hate it?
	I mean, what is makeup?
	Don't you hate being ugly and being rejected?
	What is a gym?
	Don't you hate being weak and picked on?
	What is clothing?
	Don't you hate the disrespect that comes from dressing badly and don't you want to cover up your body's flaws?
	What is spanks?
	Don't you hate your bulges?
	Don't you hate your muffin top?
	Now, of course, there's some desire, for sure, but marketing has a lot to do with people's fears.
	And what we fear, we also hate.
	You ever have this where you're walking, you got your kid out, you're walking at night down some neighborhood street and there's some dark and you think, Jesus, we're going to die, you know, and you start like, I'm always situationally aware, like as a guy.
	It's either I think it's just a guy thing.
	Like we're walking around, I'm like, okay, well, I could throw her up in that tree.
	I could climb that fence.
	There's a stick I could pull out of the ground and use as a weapon.
	That's just the way my brain works.
	I think it's pretty common.
	But some dog barks and you're frightened.
	And then what's the next emotion?
	All right, I'll answer.
	The next emotion is, this is a combo, right?
	But the next emotion is anger.
	I'm now angry that you frighten me.
	You see these scarecam videos where people like scare someone coming around the corner and half the time they get hit in the face.
	This person's frightened and they get angry.
	So with Bitcoin, it's not about Reed Rothbard.
	I mean, that's fine.
	But it's about, don't you hate the fact that you keep working and never getting ahead?
	Don't you hate the fact that every time you put your money in the bank, it evaporates?
	Like you're storing stuff from the winter and you've got mice all in the grain, like you're going to die?
	Or, you know, they're fomenting war in Europe right now.
	Wouldn't it be fucking great if these sociopathic warmongers, and in particular the ladies, are ladies, very brave when you can't get drafted, aren't you?
	And they said, we got to go to war with Russia.
	Wouldn't it be great if you can say, no, I'm going to need you to ask nicely because you can't take my fucking Bitcoin without my permission.
	I'm going to need you to ask nicely.
	You don't order me because I hold the resources.
	I'm going to need you to make a case.
	Because I don't think it was a lot of Russian immigrants who were raping all those little British girls.
	I'm going to need you to ask nicely.
	We're going to put a tariff on this country.
	I'm going to need you to ask nicely.
	Well, I need all this money because there's all these single moms.
	I'm going to need you to ask nicely.
	I'm going to need you to ask, not tell me.
	Oh, gosh, wouldn't that be great?
	Wouldn't that be great?
	How would you like it if the government assigned you your marital partner and forced you to live with them and have children with them for the rest of your life?
	Some fat, old, ugly, whatever, right?
	People are like, no, you got to get married.
	No, I'm going to need you to ask nicely.
	I'm going to need this person to bring me some fucking flowers and chocolates and woo me.
	I'm going to need a foot rub.
	I'm going to need a blowjob.
	I'm going to need something other than an order.
	Now, some people love getting pushed around.
	I don't understand it.
	I don't know why.
	Those people are probably lost to the future, but wouldn't it be nice?
	Like, there's all this stuff.
	The British Broadcasting.
	It's a corporation, BBC.
	And the BBC is being sued by Trump for $10 billion for absolutely horribly editing his speeches.
	And everyone's like, oh, but the British, the BBC is a treasured, British institution.
	People love the BBC.
	Really?
	Really?
	It's like you go over to some guy's house and you're having dinner and you hear, what the hell was that?
	Oh, that's my girlfriend.
	Why is she banging on the she in the basement?
	Why is she banging on the wall, bro?
	Oh, yeah, she loves me.
	I'm the greatest guy in the world for her.
	She loves me to death.
	It's a beautiful relationship.
	She treasures me.
	It's like, well, hang on.
	If she treasures you and she loves you and she would choose you above all other men, why the fuck have you got her locked in the basement?
	If the BBC is some treasured institution that everyone in England loves, why do they need to force you to pay its bills?
	Wouldn't you like to not be locked in the basement and have someone shout down the vents, oh, I lock you in the basement because you love me so much.
	I have to lock you in the basement because I'm so special and precious to you.
	It's like, what?
	It's like John Fowles the collector, like some windowless van of infinite love.
	It's just, so wouldn't you like to have some choice in the world?
	And fiat currency will never give you that choice.
	They want to go to war, they just print the money.
	They want to fund other wars, they just print the money.
	They want to buy votes, they just print the money.
	They want to give subsidies to the rich, they just give the money.
	They want to pay off the poor, they just print the money.
	You have no say.
	There's no democracy when there's money printing.
	So yeah, I think it's just trying to get people to think of the world not as an inevitable zoo of subjugation, but as something that over the long run, we can work, as I say, sort of through peaceful parenting and reason and evidence to liberate ourselves from.
	But we don't have to live with this immune disorder where we never push back against anything that is harming us, but we can reason our way out of this.
	But yeah, so I think it's really about tapping into people's emotions.
	Intellectual stuff only goes so far, and it's fine to have it, of course.
	I mean, but you got to have your emotions as well.
	Does that make sense?
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	That's a good perspective.
	I'll have to think about that more.
	Yeah, just ask people, does it bother you that you can't plan for anything because the government keeps changing the rules?
	Does it bother you that they say, oh, get this degree and then you get this degree and there are no jobs for you because you've been replaced by foreigners?
	Like, does it bother you that you can't save any money because the government keeps printing money and raising inflation and raising taxes?
	And does it bother you that you can't get a family started because you can't even rent a place on your own with a job that pays above the average?
	Does it bother you?
	I mean, and if it doesn't bother anyone, then, I mean, there's really nothing you can say.
	Like, you can't sell a serum of infinite life to people.
	You say, does it bother you getting older?
	Nope, I love it.
	I'm looking forward to going.
	I'm going to age out gracefully and then I'm going to die.
	It's like, well, then if you're not bothered by getting older and dying, then I don't really have much to sell you.
	So you got to find out what bothers people and then say that's the solution.
	Not, you know, here's the theory of fiat currency, which is fine.
	All right.
	Well, I appreciate that.
	And thank you very much for the question.
	Lovely stuff.
	And Monsieur or Madame Le Space Alien Glosso, you are on Free Domain.
	Hello.
	Just a couple quick questions.
	There are no quick questions.
	They're only bad answers, but I'm ready to adopt both.
	Go ahead.
	Fantastic.
	So how do you learn how to hate when it feels antithetical to your nature?
	And is learning how to hate better advice for men only or women too?
	And then how does embracing that hatred not harden your heart?
	That is an excellent set of questions.
	Tell me, my young friend, for young you do sound, do you think that women don't hate?
	I think they do, but I also think it tends to be more antithetical to what women are supposed to kind of represent, how we're supposed to act in the world?
	Let me ask you this.
	You were a teenager at some point.
	Of course.
	And as a teenager, did you ever have any trouble with any females in the school?
	I'm sure I did.
	I just don't recall.
	Oh, so you weren't ostracized or rejected or made fun of or excluded or gossiped about or anything like that?
	More than likely, yes.
	Did you ever see any effects of that?
	I guess that would be probably just like anxious around other people, depression, stuff like that, I would assume.
	Did you ever have a female betray your confidence?
	Not that I recall.
	Really?
	Do you have any siblings?
	Yes, siblings.
	She's calling from the future, ladies and gentlemen, when peaceful parenting has been achieved and all human perfidy has been undermined.
	All right.
	So do you have any siblings?
	Yes, I do.
	A sister.
	Boys and girls?
	Oh, you have a sister?
	Older or younger?
	No, younger.
	Younger, okay.
	And by how many years?
	Just a couple.
	Okay.
	And have you and your sister gotten along at all times?
	Well, of course, like any siblings, there's some fighting there once in a while.
	Okay.
	Just give me a rough sketch of the time when your sister was the angriest with you.
	Oh, gosh, I wasn't expecting these kind of questions.
	I can't think of anything off the top of my head.
	Can you think of anything before the head injury that seems to have erased your memories of high school?
	And well, we had conflicts, but it's all kind of hazy because of the head injury.
	No, I'm just kidding.
	All right.
	Okay.
	So tell me a time in your life, if you could, when you have hated the most or gotten the closest to that kind of emotion.
	Probably a bad manager, bad boss.
	A bad boss.
	Okay.
	And how bad?
	Like screaming bad or giving good shifts to favorites and bad shifts to non-favorites based upon criticism or like what are we talking?
	A little bit of all the above, basic lawyer.
	Okay.
	And from one to 10, one being mild irritation to 10 being fantasizing about masonry falling on his head, how angry did you get?
	Maybe about six or seven tops.
	Okay.
	And for how long did that last?
	Maybe a year or two.
	Okay, so you spent a year or two kind of hating someone.
	I feel like hate would be too strong of a word, but yeah, I guess, just angry with them.
	I mean, six or seven is that's why I said kind of, right?
	Not but.
	I'm not saying you woke up with his head in a bag in a bowling alley.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So then you did have the experience of anger and hatred.
	I have experienced female anger and hatred.
	I may, in fact, by the end of this conversation, if I keep annoying you.
	Fair enough.
	But no, I myself experienced female anger and hatred.
	And certainly I have, I remember in high school how destructive some of the girls could be towards others, how ferocious they were in policing social groups and in attacking oddballs and quirky people and so on.
	I also, let me ask you this.
	How far in love, one to ten, ten being like not obsessive, like psycho stalking or anything, but ten being like the most perfect devoted love, one being, yeah, I guess I could do a coffee with him.
	So how far in love would you say you have gotten as an adult?
	I would say up to 10.
	I've been married for nine years now.
	Oh, fantastic.
	Beautiful.
	Okay, that's that's perfect.
	I appreciate that.
	And congratulations, by the way.
	Thank you.
	And do you have any kids?
	No, not yet.
	Not yet.
	That's a long story.
	It's a long nine-year story.
	Do you want to have kids?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Good.
	Well, obviously, fingers crossed, and I absolutely wish you the best.
	Thank you.
	So, okay.
	So if someone did great harm to your husband, would you hate that person?
	Yeah, I would say so, actually.
	Okay, if you have kids, someone does great harm to your kids.
	Would you hate that person?
	Yeah, I would say so.
	Right.
	So love and hate are two sides of the same coin.
	Whatever we love, we hate what harms or destroys it.
	I see what you think.
	And so when you say women don't have the capacity for, or women, it doesn't, hatred doesn't come naturally for them.
	What I hear is either women are enormously disloyal or women don't love.
	And I don't believe either of those things.
	Because if you love someone, you hate what harms it.
	And if you love someone and then say, I'm indifferent as to what harms them, then nobody would believe that you love them, if that makes sense.
	I see what you're saying.
	So to love without the capacity for hatred is not love.
	Because to love is to want the very best for someone.
	And if someone harms that person, we would hate them.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	Oh, you're good.
	I was going to say, with what you've been describing, though, it almost sounds like we're trying to use like preventative hatred, where it's, for example, what's going on over in the UK, where while I may not necessarily be directly impacted by, you know, the Pakistani rape gangs, societally, we should kind of hate the people who are doing that.
	So it's kind of like preemptive or like not direct, if that makes sense.
	Well, it's not as direct as if it's your own child.
	Right.
	And this is the wild thing is that in England, they're going to start talking to the government's going to start lecturing boys about treating women well when countless of those boys have seen their own sisters get raped.
	And the government has actually arrested fathers trying to rescue their children from these rape houses.
	So the idea that the government is going to have a lot of credibility when it comes to teaching boys about treating women well or females well, it's just, it's appalling.
	I mean, it's mind-blowing.
	So it's different, of course, in the abstract than it is if it's your own sister or daughter.
	That's kind of what I was getting at.
	Right.
	So I do think that men have a little bit more facility for abstract emotions.
	And that's not praise or it's not praise of men or any kind of denigration of women.
	I think that men get more passionate about abstract topics and women get more passionate about personal topics.
	So women need to listen to men when men say, this is going to get personal.
	This is going to get personal.
	So for instance, we'll take it out of the personal for you and I.
	But let's say there's some woman, she has a son, and her son goes to university, maybe goes into debt.
	Maybe they're not a very wealthy family.
	He goes into you know, he's a white, white boy.
	And he goes into debt and he graduates from university.
	He wants to get his life started.
	He cannot get a job.
	Now, her husband for many years has probably been saying, you know, this diversity stuff is kind of anti-white, it's anti-male, and it's going to make it really tough for him to get a job.
	Now, her son gets progressively more and more depressed.
	He kind of gives up hope.
	He stops bathing.
	He stops shaving.
	He just stays in his room.
	He doesn't come out.
	He's really depressed.
	And she starts to get really worried about him.
	Yeah.
	As she would, right?
	As anybody, as anybody would.
	Now, if in the past she had listened, look, you're married, right?
	So you know there are times when you're right and your husband just needs to listen to you, right?
	Of course.
	I mean, I'm married, and I know that's true for sure.
	So, but there are also times when your husband is right and you just need to listen to him, right?
	Yes.
	So women are really good, like let's take the evolutionary side of things.
	Women are really good at figuring out the dangers that are really close.
	And men are really good at figuring out the dangers that are further away.
	So if you look at the lions, right?
	The male lions say, oh, they're so lazy.
	All the women do is hunt.
	And the women are doing all the hunting.
	But the male lions are patrolling the outskirts of the territory to make sure that other lions don't come in and take the prey or attack the cubs or whatever it is, right?
	So men in general are better at having emotional attachments to abstractions.
	I don't know if you've ever seen this.
	There's a video of a guy in England.
	I don't know if he's got some neurodivergence or whatever it is, but he's absolutely thrilled when a train he's expecting to come down the track comes down the track.
	Now, can you imagine women being super excited that a train was coming down the track?
	I mean, there probably are, but probably very few and far in between.
	Yeah, I mean, these are all overlapping circles, but it would be much fewer.
	Men tend to get more emotionally invested in abstractions and things that are distant.
	And women tend to get more emotionally invested in things that are more close and immediate.
	So if you take particularly sort of the Siberians and the Northern Europeans, the peoples, because, you know, there were sort of two grave dangers to our lives back then.
	One was predators that were close by, and these could, predators could be like mice and rats and so on.
	Like one bite could get your kid infected and half the kids died.
	So women would keep the houses clean and would keep things kind of spotless.
	And this is why women, I mean, let me ask you this.
	Has it ever bothered you that your husband drops crumbs?
	A little bit.
	A little bit.
	Do you know why that is?
	Just because it's something that's already been cleaned and should stay that way.
	No, no, no.
	It's because crumbs bring mice and mice bring disease and disease brings death.
	It's just an evolutionary thing.
	And I mean, you're right.
	You're right, for sure.
	But mice, of course, also, sorry, crumbs also bring insects and insects can ruin food and so on, right?
	So women like to keep places clean and men don't particularly care because we're focused on long-term dangers.
	So in colder climates, women have to keep the place clean and women have to keep their eyes peeled for mass droppings and they just have to be hawkeyed about keeping the environment clean so that things don't harm the children and it's more immediate.
	What are men doing?
	Well, men are building the fences to keep predators at bay and men in particular are out there making sure that there's enough food.
	And women do this too, of course, with sort of pickling and jamming and so on.
	But men are out there really working hard to double, triple check everything to make sure there's enough food for the winter.
	So women are dealing with the more immediate dangers, and men are dealing with the more abstract and time-based dangers, both of which are completely essential.
	We're an incredible team as men and women.
	So women, do men or women tend to focus more on politics?
	I feel like mostly men.
	Yeah, because it's a long-term danger.
	Do men or women tend to study more military strategy and the Roman Empire?
	Definitely men.
	Right, because those are abstract things that we need to learn that lead to very immediate dangers so that we can be informed and help people understand things politically so we don't get our asses drafted and shot.
	Because women can't be drafted, right?
	So women don't fight generally in wars, right?
	So men and women are both focusing on different things.
	So one of the things that's really left the West unprotected is men are very good at seeing long-term, slow-moving dangers.
	And women, with all of your beautiful, wonderful skills that keep us all alive, are not particularly or have not evolved to be particularly attuned with that, if that makes sense.
	And just as, I mean, has your husband ever wanted to go and see a movie or go to a restaurant in track pants?
	Or do you have a well-trained by now?
	Well-trained.
	He doesn't even own trackpants.
	Oh, he doesn't even own track pants.
	You haven't emasculated him.
	This is why you're having trouble having kids or no?
	No, no, he wears slacks.
	It's nice.
	It's nice for you.
	Trackpants robust.
	But I've never seen a human being's eyes.
	Well, I guess two things where you see human beings' eyes widen at a particularly fantastic magical trick, like making a whole plane disappear, or a woman seeing what her husband is willing to go out in public wearing.
	It is almost beyond horror.
	And she's right.
	I remember after I've worked from home for a while, shortly after I got married, I'd been working from home, writing books for quite some time, and then I got a job in the corporate world.
	Pretty casual place and all of that.
	And my wife is like, okay, well, we need to get you some new clothes.
	I'm like, what?
	Why?
	I haven't gained any weight.
	And she's like, you were last in the business world some time ago, like, we need to get you some new clothes.
	And I'm like, I bought the clothes out.
	I'm saying, like, they don't have holes in them.
	They're not super afraid on the bottom.
	And she's like, you're an executive.
	Put on some nice clothes.
	And who was right?
	Definitely her.
	Definitely her.
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	Now, of course, I went to work and I wrote like five-year business plans and all this stuff, very abstract.
	And I was very passionate about all of that sort of stuff.
	And so I had a job dealing with abstractions.
	My wife practiced psychology, so she was dealing with people and emotions and all of that kind of stuff.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So with regards to hatred, men tend to have anger and hatred towards more abstract things.
	And they try to warn their wives.
	And the wives often don't particularly care.
	Right.
	You know that meme where the woman is sitting in the car kind of chuffed and her husband is driving and she's like, how is it possible that my husband knows everything about economics, politics, Bitcoin, business, geometry, even, but not when I'm upset.
	So I think if women, men need to listen to women more, for sure, and women need to listen to men more because we have been pounding this drumbeat of demographics and DEI and this sort of postmodern subjectivism and all of this.
	And for women, you know, I've literally seen women, you know, because we men can be quite observant, not often, but sometimes.
	And I remember talking to women about this decades ago.
	I could literally see, because women can be quite polite.
	I could see the yawn with, have you ever done this, the yawn, but the lips closed?
	Yes.
	Very subtle.
	Very subtle.
	She's either chewing invisible gum or I'm, well, I wouldn't say boring the pants off her because that could be a goal for a male, but clearly not interested.
	And trying to say to women why this stuff is important can feel a little, it's like, oh, it's just so abstract, you know?
	I mean, I remember, of course, once with a girlfriend, I was chatting with a friend of mine on the phone and we talked for about an hour.
	He was a professor of economics.
	We talked a lot about politics and economics and it was great.
	And she was horrified at the call.
	Why so?
	She's like, well, you didn't, how's he doing?
	I'm like, I mean, he's good.
	No, no, but you just talked about all these abstractions.
	It's like, yeah, that's what we do.
	I mean, how's his wife?
	I don't know.
	I mean, I think I heard her in the background.
	There was a problem.
	People told me.
	And she was just like, what was the point of that conversation?
	And it's like, we're men.
	This is what we do.
	We guard the perimeter.
	We look at the deep distance.
	We see the conclusion in the equation.
	We taste the cake by glancing at the recipe.
	And so I understand when you say, well, women's nature is not to feel this level of anger or hatred or hostility.
	And it's like, well, it is.
	It's just in a generally different context from men.
	In other words, if somebody harms your family, you're angry, you're enraged.
	And we see that harm coming from a great distance.
	And we sort of try to say to women, this is going to go badly.
	This is unjust, wrong, unfair, bad.
	And of course, one of the reasons that men and women are encouraged to disconnect from each other is that those who want to do our culture harm, the men can see it coming.
	And then we try to warn the women.
	And what do the women say?
	Stop controlling me.
	Well, or it's like, You know, there's this question, you know, okay, well, how has mass migration affected you directly and personally?
	And it's like, that's a question that blends both male and female into an unfathomable tapioca style goop.
	Because the effect that you personally is like, you have to follow those threats, but it's not like somebody backed over your family pet.
	Well, that's affected you personally, but all of these other things.
	It's this sort of abstract causality that men are pretty good at.
	It's why men make really good engineers and physicists and that kind of stuff.
	But yeah, so lowering the credibility of men in the eyes of women is really, really important because we're just running around warning about these changes and how wrong and unjust it is.
	But it's subtle and it's distant and it requires a focus on principles rather than experience.
	And it's sort of like to sort of take a silly example.
	If somebody smokes a lot and somebody says, well, you should quit smoking and they say, well, but I'm not sick.
	Like that wouldn't make much sense because you're not sick till you're sick, right?
	But for women, and of course, throughout most of human history, there was very little you could do to not get sick because the water was foul and there was almost no soap and bacteria was everywhere and there was no antibiotics or anything like that.
	So, but there are things that we can do.
	And what men are trying to do continually is to warn women about like the creeping communism, the creeping socialism and the sort of anti-white agenda and so on.
	And women are like, you know, I kind of get it, but you know, it doesn't quite hit them in the feels.
	It doesn't quite hit them in the visceral way.
	And this problem was dealt with in the past.
	And I'm not saying that this is a big solution, but it was dealt with in the past by simply keeping women away from political power.
	I have heard that, yes.
	Yeah.
	And to be fair, keeping most men away from political power.
	Like, you know, that the time when men had to vote and women didn't was like 20 years out of all of the million year human history.
	So it was trying to keep the most abstract and competent people at the realm at the helm of political power.
	That didn't work, of course, because we went into World War I and then Great Boom and then the Great Recession and then World War II.
	So it didn't really work, but that was sort of the general theory.
	So one of the reasons why things are kind of tense between men and women is because men are constantly saying, this is bad, this is dangerous, it's going to end really badly.
	And women just kind of shrug and say, well, it's not affecting me.
	It's like, but it will.
	And by the time it does, it's kind of too late.
	So does that make sense?
	It does.
	It gives me a lot to think about too.
	Thank you very much.
	You're very welcome.
	And I hope that you get the kids that you like.
	My daughter is, oh my gosh, I know this.
	She's going to be 17 tomorrow.
	Oh, happy birthday to her.
	I will absolutely pass that along to her.
	She already got her first big gift basket today where she says, I like the fruit, but dad, you know, I'm off sugar, right?
	And I should make fun of her.
	She's not a valley girl.
	Off sugar, you know.
	She's just a mean girl.
	No, I'm kidding.
	But yeah, so it's a beautiful, wonderful experience.
	I hope that you and your husband, and of course, I hope that everyone here who's childless experiences is it's an absolutely amazing and wonderful experience to go from a toddler who can't sit up to somebody you teach to drive in the snow.
	It's just amazing.
	It's just amazing.
	All right.
	Well, thanks for the call.
	I really do appreciate it.
	You're welcome back anytime.
	And yeah, it's, you know, it's tough getting angry.
	I mean, there is a kind of thing where you get angry and people are like, whoa, whoa, hey, hey, like this evo said last night I was ranting and raving about society's indifference to child abuse.
	You know, that's got to be something that we're okay getting angry about, isn't it?
	And somebody was like, oh, you're just, you're being super mean to the caller.
	And it's like, no, I'm not being mean to the caller.
	I'm just being passionate.
	All right.
	But if you've seen people misuse their anger and turn it into rage and abuse, then anger looks unhealthy, right?
	So you'd be, if all you saw was people with autoimmune diseases, you'd say, oh, man, our immune system is messed up.
	It just causes people to get sick.
	But that's people with dysfunctional immune systems, which is what violence and rage is.
	But people who have healthy anger have a good immune system.
	So you don't want to be the extreme where your immune system is attacking the healthy cells and that's rage.
	You also don't want to be, you have no immune system and you got to live in some sort of weird bubble and you want to have sort of a healthy Aristotelian meaning.
	All right.
	Snappy.
	Hey.
	Well, I think it's so interesting about this kind of, you know, back and forth around all of these different words, because I mean, there are a lot of different ways to feel negatively about something or someone.
	And I totally agree that anger is a healthy emotion.
	And in a lot of ways, we demonize that in modern society, but that ends up crippling us because it's an important signal for when we've been wronged.
	And then how do we handle that?
	So, and then kind of the tie to hate and how hate, you know, you said that really, really interesting thing about how hate is sort of this flip side of love and is a reaction to protecting the things we love or fearing that we need to gear up to protect the things we love.
	And so I guess my question for you, if you would take one.
	Oh, that's what I'm here for.
	By the way.
	My question for you would be, do you think that hate is a way of thinking that affects planning?
	Or do you think it is a state of feeling, like a set of moods that affect planning?
	Okay, could you just run me?
	After having held this whole speech about how, oh, men are so good at abstractions, I didn't follow that abstraction.
	No, no, sorry.
	No, no, no, I'm sure it's on me.
	So just take another run at it and let's see if I get it round two.
	Sure.
	So my question is, like, is hate a almost a philosophy about a thing or a person that creates a way of thinking, a way of reacting?
	Or is hate a set of emotions that then generate those ways of thinking?
	And just sort of your opinion.
	All right, right.
	That's a very, very good question.
	So I'll tell you what hate means to me and see if it fits in that paradigm.
	And tell me, of course, if obviously tell me if you disagree.
	I'm certainly not any kind of final arbiter of these things.
	So in my experience, I get angry when I've been wronged.
	And the anger does not mean the other person is wrong.
	It simply means that I have perceived that I'm wrong.
	So for instance, most of us have had at one time or another the experience where we think we're being overcharged for something.
	And if you've ever, you know, then you feel sort of mildly annoyed, maybe irritated, maybe a little bit angry.
	And you then call the waiter over, you go up to the cashier and you say, I think I was overcharged here, right?
	Now, if they have made the mistake, then they will take the charge off and apologize and all is good, right?
	If you have made the mistake, in other words, if you ordered something and forgot about it or something like that, like maybe you've had a super long dinner and you forgot that you had the garlic bread at the beginning or something like that, right?
	Then you apologize and, oh, you're right.
	I'm so sorry.
	Thank you for clearing that up.
	And hopefully you leave a little bit of a better tip because you made a mistake.
	Does that sort of, I think most people have had that experience before, right?
	Yeah, I agree.
	Okay.
	So anger is when you have the perception of having been wronged and it doesn't mean for sure that you have been wrong.
	So I remember once waiting for a friend of mine.
	It was cold.
	It was winter.
	We were supposed to meet on a street corner to go downtown.
	And I got there at seven o'clock and bro didn't even show up.
	I was sitting there waiting.
	This is long before cell phones and all that kind of stuff, right?
	And he finally showed up at eight and I was angry.
	He's like, what the hell are you doing so late?
	He's like, you said to come at eight.
	And I was like, of course, like I didn't, right?
	Because what happens is you, you, at least for me, it's like you end up justifying yourself the whole time.
	You're thinking, oh my God, so rude, blah, blah, blah.
	Anyway, so at the end, so we went and, you know, I said, okay, fine, well, we can't resolve it right now.
	So then I went back to his place at the end of the evening and he played me the machine.
	He played me the answering machine message and I said eight o'clock.
	So I completely got it wrong.
	And what could I do?
	I could just say, man, I totally messed that up.
	I'm so sorry.
	And so the fact that I felt angry was simply my perception that I had been wronged.
	And then I thought he was gaslighting me.
	So he was adding insult to injury.
	He couldn't even say, oh, man, I totally, whatever.
	And it turns out that I was in the wrong.
	And of course, there have been times when I've been in the right.
	So the anger simply tells me that my perception is that I'm being wronged and I need to have a conversation.
	Now, how do we end up in hatred?
	Well, if you have the conversation and you get it resolved, your anger tends to dissipate, right?
	Like if you, if they fix your bill or you were in the wrong about the bill or I hear about me saying eight rather than seven.
	I mean, I'm sure you've had that too.
	Just confirm if you have, like you think you're in the wrong or you think, sorry, you think you've been wronged.
	It gets resolved in some manner and the anger tends to dissipate, right?
	Absolutely.
	I've been through that.
	I've thought that and on the other side too.
	Absolutely.
	Yeah, on the both sides, where you're in the right or in the wrong or whatever tends to dissipate.
	Now, what happens though, if the other person doesn't admit that they're wrong?
	Let's say you say, you charged me for the garlic bread.
	I didn't order the garlic bread.
	And you're certain that you didn't order the garlic bread and they're certain that you did.
	And neither party gives way.
	What happens?
	I don't know.
	Well, you can't resolve it.
	So generally what I do in those situations is I'm like, okay, fine.
	I'll pay for the garlic bread.
	I'm not coming back to the restaurant.
	Right?
	I will pay.
	I'll pay the $450 for the garlic bread.
	I know I didn't order it.
	I'm not going to have this fight.
	I'll just pay the money and I will, but I won't go back to the restaurant.
	Does that make sense?
	I suppose when I have been in a situation like that, typically I have escalated it.
	So it's even though that's such, you know, a little, it can be uncertainty.
	It can be important enough to do that, right?
	But yeah, I think that escalating a situation is not always important, especially over garlic bread.
	Yeah, I'm giving a minor example, but certainly there are times.
	I remember once I had an exam in university and I got marked quite low, which I was quite surprised about because I studied a lot.
	I knew the material.
	And so I demanded to get the question back and the answer.
	And I went over it with a fine-toothed comb.
	And I found that I had answered the question correctly on one interpretation of the question.
	There were two ways you could take the question.
	And what happened was I went to the professor.
	Yeah, I went back and like, this was important to me, right?
	So I went back to the professor and I said, look, I'm going to fight for this.
	I could be wrong, but I'm going to fight for this because this was how I understood the question, right?
	And we went back and forth for a while.
	I could see that he knew that he was wrong because the question was somewhat poorly worded or at least could be interpreted in two different ways.
	And anyway, so I ended up rescuing a lot of people's marks because a lot of people had been marked down for that.
	But when I went back and fought, so that was worth fighting over.
	And if he hadn't, I would have escalated further and I would have gone to the department head and I would have gone, like I would have gone as far as I could.
	And sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't, right?
	Absolutely.
	Now, if it hadn't worked, like if I had gone all the way to like Jordan Peterson went all the way to the Supreme Court to try and get this social media training stuff overturned, and sometimes you escalate.
	And I mean, I don't know what your percentage of winning is, but nobody bats a thousand, right?
	Because sometimes you just, I mean, either you are in the wrong or people just won't admit fault, if that makes sense.
	So, and I'm happy to hear an example if you have one so that we make sure we're on the same page if you have a good or something that's vivid in your mind where you escalated and what the outcome was.
	Nothing.
	So, yes, there are several things in my head.
	Should I just pick a fight with you right now?
	Because then we could escalate and do a lot of things.
	Just kidding.
	Oh, I'll teach you to hate.
	And I'm just kidding.
	Go on.
	All right.
	So nothing in particular comes to mind.
	Okay.
	So that's fine.
	So for me, the hatred comes in when I'm angry, which anger is not an emotion to dominate.
	Anger indicates an urgency of communication.
	I'm angry with someone.
	So I pick up the phone and I say, I'm angry with you.
	It doesn't mean I'm right.
	I'm just saying that I am angry with you.
	And here's what I've experienced and blah, blah, blah.
	Right.
	So anger says there's an urgent need to communicate to resolve a problem.
	If the problem gets resolved, then the anger dissipates.
	If the problem doesn't get resolved, but I don't have to revisit it, right?
	So if they won't take the garlic bread and, you know, maybe it was garlic bread, maybe it was a $200 bottle of wine.
	It could be anything, right?
	But and maybe 200 bucks, I'd sit and fight a little longer.
	But if I can't resolve the issue, but I don't have to revisit the situation, then my anger also dissipates.
	Because at least I don't have to go back to the restaurant.
	Does that make sense?
	Right.
	But if this is your favorite restaurant and this waiter's, you know, like going to set you up with some situation, this is the only chef that makes muscles like this anywhere in the world.
	Right.
	Okay, I'm not quite a hedonist that way, but no, because if it was my favorite restaurant, I would assume it's because it has good service.
	And I have credibility there because I've gone there a lot.
	So they probably wouldn't bother me about the garlic bread.
	They'd just say, oh, whatever.
	Because to be a good restaurant, they'd have to recognize that keeping my business is more important than four bucks worth of garlic bread or something like that.
	But if I can't resolve the issue, sorry, if I can escape the issue, let's say the restaurant was my favorite restaurant under new management or whatever, and it's just no good.
	So then at least I don't have to get in the same situation again.
	And then I find that my anger also dissipates.
	So I'm sure you've maybe known people or maybe you've been in this situation.
	You were dating someone and you have fights.
	And then you try to resolve the fights.
	You can't resolve the fights.
	Too many fights.
	You break up.
	Have you been through that kind of situation?
	I don't want to think about those things, but that has certainly happened.
	I have had breakups and they were really sad.
	Right.
	Now, do you stay as angry with the person six months or 12 months later as you were when you were in the relationship?
	Sometimes.
	Actually, with one person with whom I was engaged and then we broke up, I still feel as though that situation had wronged me in a way.
	And I don't talk about it or think about it often, but when I think about it, like I'll be thinking about it for a little bit, even though I don't want to be.
	Right.
	And the emotions still come back, but it's not quite the same as when it first happened, right?
	No, it's not quite the same.
	You're right.
	Right.
	So we can remember being hurt, but it's not the same as continuing to be hurt.
	So if you have conflicts with someone, you can't resolve them.
	They're unpleasant and too common.
	Then you break up.
	And the reason why our anger tends to dissipate, in other words, it's not as vivid or immediate, is because we're no longer revisiting the situation in reality, in the real world.
	We're not waking up and fighting with the person.
	Like we may think back on those fights and, oh, that was terrible or whatever.
	But it's not the same as continuing to be in that situation.
	Does that make sense?
	Well, I might disagree having grown up in a small town where bro is always at the laundromat.
	Yeah, where you have a break.
	One bar, your favorite restaurant that you can't go right now.
	Exactly.
	So that's not always the same.
	Really, the breakup ends up in that case being just a hot a guy and rub it in his face.
	You can get the revenge body.
	You can do your Pilates and you can say, this moneymaker ain't yours no more, boy.
	So, okay, so, but it's still, it's going to dissipate.
	It's not going to be quite as bad as when you were still hoping to get married and he broke your heart in that horrible way.
	So for me, hate comes when I'm wronged and I can't get away.
	Because then my body is gearing up for conflict, like serious conflict, like win-lose conflict.
	Maybe it's a bit more of a male thing.
	But it's like if I was in a conflict where some guy was trying to pick a physical fight with me, I would pretend to be gay, try and kiss him on the lips.
	No, I would try and talk my way out of it, make a joke, you know, let me buy you a drink or whatever.
	And if he kept pushing, I would try and leave the bar.
	If he blocked my exit, then I start to hate.
	Because now I have to fight.
	I don't want to fight, but now I have to fight.
	I can't escape the situation and I'm being wronged.
	And so it's when you can't escape the situation.
	I mean, so for me, it's like you put your money in your bank and the inflation just eats away and I can't escape it.
	I can't.
	I mean, I guess I can escape into Bitcoin or whatever, like we talked about before.
	But for me, hate is when I can't reason.
	I can't escape.
	I have to fight.
	I suppose in a lot of ways, A lot of these modern things where, like, oh, the exit is blocked.
	Again, like growing up in a small town, a breakup, the exit was always blocked.
	It's a small town.
	He's going to be at the grocery store.
	He's going to be at the next concert in the park.
	He's just going to be there.
	Yeah.
	And gosh, that was weird.
	Billy is really weird.
	I actually went.
	So I dated this guy at one college and then I transferred colleges.
	And he also transferred.
	And I am not kidding.
	They put him in the dorm next to my door.
	We shared a wall.
	I shared a lot of people.
	He was transferring colleges.
	Oh, my God.
	But he wasn't a stalker, right?
	No, no.
	This was the administration.
	He did.
	Oh, yeah, but I mean, I checked.
	He wasn't in college.
	And like, he wasn't like, did you ever wake up in a windowless van or anything like that?
	Or the burlaps up over your head, smell of chlorophyll?
	Oh, we don't.
	I don't need to talk about my traumas.
	But, and he did, he did for my birthday at one point wire a tracker into a Tesla lighter.
	And that was his own thing.
	What he did, he wired a tracker into an electric lighter for my birthday and engraved it with my initials.
	It was super cool, but yes, it was a tracker.
	And this, yeah, like the administration at the next college made sure we shared a wall in our holy pepper spray, Batman.
	That is not a, if you love someone, let them go kind of philosophy.
	It was, it was pretty, pretty.
	Right.
	So to take a, to take a completely ridiculous example, right?
	If he had kidnapped you, you'd hate him because now you can't get away, right?
	At least you can avoid the guy or, I don't know, ditch the lighter or something like that.
	But so, so if, but if somebody kidnaps you, then you hate them because you can't reason with them and you can't get away.
	And this is why a lot of, you know, I think like nothing to do with your category, but like, you know, school shooters or things like that.
	It's like they hate the situation and they genuinely feel that they can't get away.
	And so they just turn feral.
	It happens to some kids, of course, and some teenagers where, geez, maybe it even happened to Nick Reiner a couple of days ago with his parents.
	So, so I think for me, hatred is an emotion that says, okay, flight hasn't worked, reason hasn't worked, it's fight time.
	And I don't know, I don't know how to fight without hating the enemy.
	I'm not Zen that way.
	I mean, it could be a fault, maybe it's a strength.
	I don't know.
	It doesn't really matter, but it is the way that I'm wired.
	And there's only a certain amount of stuff you can do with, there's only a certain amount of tweaks you can do with the way that you're wired.
	I mean, you can, you can't enjoy a tooth drilling without Novocaine.
	So, so hatred is for me, I've been wronged.
	Anger tells me to communicate.
	If I can resolve it, great.
	If I can't resolve it, but I can escape it, great.
	If I can't resolve it and I can't escape it, that's where the hatred comes in for me.
	May I ask a question?
	Yeah, of course.
	Thank you.
	So I suppose I'm hearing you say that you're struggling to get yourself to a state where you feel capable sometimes of defending yourself in a situation where you feel it would be just to defend yourself.
	And so you're looking at maybe these different, it almost sounds like you want to like reward hack into a place where you would be emotionally able to defend yourself.
	And so I want.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	Well, just real quick, I suppose because we were talking just earlier about how feelings are signals is like I know that we can be hacked by others to have reduced signals for whatever reasons or because we may we may love somebody who is hurting us and then and then we have a reduced defense to them.
	And so, like, is that kind of where this is coming from?
	Yeah, it's a good question.
	So for me, hatred doesn't mean violence.
	It can.
	I hope it doesn't, at least for the most part.
	And if you're in some desperate situation of self-defense or whatever, that's a different matter.
	But what I'm trapped by is not a basement or chains or a windowless van.
	What I'm trapped by is words.
	What I'm trapped by is people's denial of not yours, right?
	But people's denial of reality, people's denial of the toxic elements of the system that we're in.
	So because what I'm trapped by is words, what I fight with are words, right?
	If I was trapped by chains, then I would try and break the chains or get them over the pole in some hyper-sit-up Tom Cruise style or something.
	But what I'm trapped by is language.
	So what I fight with is language.
	So hatred, I think, not that I live in some state of perpetual hatred or anything like that, but I need to have access to the emotion when I am fighting.
	So if I'm in a debate that's quite hostile, then I need to have access to anger.
	And the anger says, look, I'm, I mean, and this has happened in some calls over the course of my sort of public career, when I do a call-in show, people would just be passive-aggressive or snippy or bitchy or rude or something like that.
	And I'll get angry and I'll sort of point out that they need to stop doing that.
	Or people will talk in my ear when I'm just trying.
	I listen to them for 10 minutes and then I try and say something.
	They immediately start talking in my ear and I tell them to stop doing that.
	So it's annoying.
	Now, at some point, I just, I get really angry if they don't listen and then I just cut them off because I can't have a productive conversation in that way.
	I wouldn't say I hate them at that time, but it's like I hate the interaction.
	I really dislike the interaction.
	So because that which is attacking me and undermining the security of myself, my family, my child, my future, because what is attacking us is language, fighting back requires great precision and passion in language because the people who are attacking us are very passionate.
	And most people can't judge an argument.
	They can only judge the commitment of the debater.
	And so if I were to have my debates in a very calm, monotone way with showing no emotions whatsoever, then people wouldn't listen.
	So part of the passion of working to improve the way that people think is to have some anger, some aggression, some hatred, but all channeled in and through language, because if somebody verbally insults you, you don't get to punch them in the face, right?
	I mean, that's because you hopefully should find a way to either put them down in a way that makes people laugh at them or something like that and win that way.
	Or if they appear to be willing to escalate to violence, just get out of the situation if you can.
	So for me, the hatred has to do with I hate the lies that are being put out there.
	I hate, you know, like, do you have any kids?
	I wish.
	You wish.
	Okay.
	Well, I hope you get your wish too.
	Do.
	But, you know, if my daughter was in school and she came home and she was like, oh, dad, I don't even know what the point of life is.
	I mean, the world's going to end in 10 years from global warming anyway.
	Like, I'm so depressed.
	Right.
	I would hate the people who told her that.
	I would hate the people who lied to my child and made her feel full of despair.
	Now, it doesn't mean that I can go and do anything violent because what is happening is language.
	So I hate the people who do it.
	And I'm very passionate about fighting back against those kinds of lies that harm people or people who say, oh, well, the natives who lived in the land that you now live in were perfect and wonderful and angelic.
	And it was the Garden of Eden.
	And then you all just came along and slaughtered them for no reason and infected them with smallpox.
	I hate those kinds of lies because it's just false and it makes people feel bad.
	Or, you know, white people were the only people who ever had slaves.
	And it's like, no, no, no, no, that's not true.
	White people had slaves for the least.
	Imagine, look at the Koreans, for heaven's sakes, or what's going on in the Middle East or has been going on in the Middle East.
	So I hate the people, and I don't hate people who make mistakes.
	I mean, I make mistakes.
	I don't hate people, even if they lie, they're caught out and they're like, yeah, you know, you can arise.
	Yeah, sorry, I shouldn't have.
	I knew it was wrong when I did it.
	And like even that, right?
	Because we all, I think, I don't know, I speak for you, but everyone's tempted by that and we occasionally will fall prey to it.
	But the people who double down in their sadistic lies, no matter what evidence is provided to the contrary, yeah, I hate those people.
	And doesn't mean I'm going to do any violence, but it means that I'm going to be very focused and energetic in my verbal response, if that makes sense.
	Well, so in this way, it sounds like you have tapped in to hate in a way that is productive and non-violent, that empowers you to attack the problems you see with the best solution you can think of.
	It gets you focusing on the problem.
	I mean, like, don't let, you know, I guess, yeah, do, I, I care about a lot of stuff.
	I let a lot of stuff upset my stomach.
	So I was going to say, don't let it upset your stomach, but I take that back.
	Well, yeah.
	And listen, if, if, if you have the choice of, let's say, you've got a zillion dollars, right?
	And there's two cancer researchers, Bob and Jane, and they both want a million dollars to fight cancer.
	And Bob's like, yeah, I just, I consider it an interesting challenge to try and puzzle out, right?
	You know, no particular investment, but I think it's an interesting.
	Whereas Jane is like, this particular cancer killed my beloved father and my beloved husband.
	I hate this cancer.
	I'm going to find a way to eliminate it from the world.
	Who are you going to invest in?
	Jane.
	Yeah, because she hates that cancer.
	It's the other guy.
	Oh, it's an interesting problem to solve.
	What watch?
	You know, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Cool place in Rubik's Cube, bro.
	I'm giving money to fiery Bodhichia witch Hazel Jane because she's going to attack this cancer like she's the cancer.
	So yeah, I would want to, you know, or, you know, where do you want to send your supplies in a war to the guy who's like, oh, I, you know, I think it's an interesting challenge to try and defeat this enemy as opposed to like this you kill my father, prepared to die, you know, that kind of stuff, right?
	So yeah, the people who are angry, the people who are passionate, even the people who hate, they have usually a pretty sustainable motivation, which is where I think resources should sometimes go.
	Okay.
	Well, so I agree with you that anger is good.
	It gives energy.
	It really does.
	And it's healthy.
	And when we spend that energy not listening to ourselves and suppressing ourselves, we are not using that energy to attack the problem.
	And the feedback loop goes to punishing ourselves instead of actually trying like fixing anything with energy and moving stuff over time is work.
	And if I'm being wronged, then I would like to apply that work to fixing what is wrong rather than chewing on myself, you know?
	So I agree with you about how you're trying to orient this.
	I think you have a good, a good framework.
	But I do, I'm still just not, it's kind of that reward hacking in order to be eligible for resources thing that is like this super nuanced little thing.
	I just can't not pick it out.
	Well, yeah, and I would say, though, but anger is moral because you can't love justice and not be angry at injustice.
	You can't love virtue and not be angry at evil.
	You can't love the truth and not be angry with unrepentant liars.
	And you can't love things in the world and be indifferent to those who would destroy them.
	So, I mean, the things that I treasure in life, you know, free markets and free speech and property rights, personal integrity, like that all gets destroyed by, say, communism or something like that.
	And the people I love would be rounded up, thrown into camps or killed or whatever, right?
	So I can't sort of just be indifferent to the outcome of that.
	So I appreciate the question and I appreciate the conversation.
	It's a great deal of, I would say a great deal of fun, like it's frivolous, but very enjoyable and I think enlightening.
	And I really do appreciate you guys.
	Have great questions tonight.
	Scooby, thank you for your patience.
	If you would like to ask, I will do my best to answer.
	All right.
	It's going once, going twice.
	He may have, he may have passed out, or he may be yawning in his mouth without showing your lips.
	Yes, sir.
	Go ahead.
	Okay.
	Yeah, the gap and the gap always.
	Yeah, the delay always throws me off.
	Your mid-sentence and then all of a sudden I'm on.
	But no worries.
	Something that you were talking about, I don't know, I heard it today.
	It was probably a call on show from yesterday or the day before.
	I don't know exactly.
	I keep sort of up on this stuff, but sometimes I fall behind.
	But you were talking about you were talking about people getting angry as a form of manipulation.
	And I was wondering if you could expound on that.
	I can obviously elaborate on my reason for asking, but it's hard for me to know what to elaborate on.
	Okay, such a general topic.
	So if you could tell me why it's important to you, I could probably focus it a bit more that way.
	Sure, sure, fair.
	Fair enough.
	Yeah, my wife specifically is she's a stay-at-home mom.
	And that comes with its own stresses.
	You're a stay-at-home father or were a stay-at-home father.
	So you know, you know what that comes with.
	I've got two young daughters and three and a half and two and a half.
	And so it's quite stressful.
	But at the same time, I'm, you know, I thought the I thought the responsibilities were sort of understood in terms of maintaining the house and handling the kids.
	And I come home and I and I help out as much as I could, as much as I can.
	But whenever I sort of, This is going back even further to another conversation that you had about talking about preferences.
	You know, if I have a different preference, if I just describe an issue that I have, then I have like, can you handle that?
	And sorry, I'm losing a little bit of thread of what it is you're talking about.
	So can you tell me?
	Is it your wife who uses anger?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So what sort of things do you say that cause her to get angry and what does she say in return?
	If I were to mention, such as, I mean, the most ridiculous example, but this is true is, can you please flush the toilet when you pee?
	This is a new thing.
	She says she's ADHD, and so therefore it's very difficult for her to remember to flush the toilet when she pees, especially.
	Sorry, what's new?
	The ADHD or the not flushing the toilet or both?
	Both.
	Both.
	And how long?
	Sorry, how long?
	About two years.
	So about two years, she stopped flushing the toilet or inconsistently flushing the toilet after she pees.
	What about when she drops a deuce?
	What about a number two?
	That's only happened once, ever.
	Okay.
	So, and how often does she not flush after she pees?
	Five times a week, let's say.
	It can happen five times a week.
	It can happen multiple times a day, but oftentimes it goes multiple, many days without any issue.
	So, yeah.
	Okay.
	And what is it?
	Let's just go right out on a little in here.
	What is it that bothers you about having to flush?
	Sorry, there's a fair amount of background noise there.
	I'm not sure if that's controllable by you or not.
	That's surprising.
	I've got nothing going on here.
	Sorry.
	Okay, no problem.
	So what is it that bothers you?
	I mean, I get it.
	I mean, it would be nicer if she flushed, but what if she doesn't?
	Like, what bothers you if she doesn't?
	Well, you always talk about universalizing things.
	So that's one.
	No, no, but we're talking emotions here.
	Forget the abstractions.
	So you see your wife's P in the bowl, and what does that mean to you?
	What bothers you about that?
	Well, if I mention it to her, I get yelled at.
	No, no, no.
	I'm asking you what bothers you about it.
	That's why you mention it to her because it bothers you.
	But you look at that pee.
	Is it disrespectful?
	Is it selfish?
	Is it thoughtless?
	Is it like there's something that bothers you about that?
	It's not like it's dangerous.
	It's not like she left the toilet on fire or something or left a snake in there.
	So there's something about that pee that means something to you.
	Yeah, it's gross.
	I think it's gross.
	And I think it's disrespectful.
	And if I, and I, and I think if I were to do it, I would get, um, I would not be treated vigorously.
	Does that make sense?
	Okay.
	So it's gross, but it's not like she peed on the floor.
	You just flush it, right?
	Yeah.
	It takes like 20 seconds to flush and then you can pee, right?
	Yep.
	Yep.
	It's easily fueled.
	Okay.
	So it's not, it's not, it's not an objectively big problem, but and this is not to say I'm not trying to discount your emotions, but it's not, it's not like she, she ran up a hundred thousand dollar debt and gambling to the local mafia, right?
	Okay.
	So it's a relatively small problem, but it bothers you because you, you, you say it's disrespectful, right?
	Okay, is that you?
	There's something really loud or clicky or clacky that's going on.
	It's really distracting.
	I'm sorry.
	See?
	Disrespectful.
	I could say that's really disrespectful.
	I'm trying to have a conversation with you and then click, clack, click, bang, bang, bang, right?
	I don't know what you're hearing.
	I'm going to mute myself until you ask me a question.
	Sorry.
	No, no, don't.
	It's just, maybe it's not you.
	I've just never had this before, but there's some sort of background clicking or clacking.
	It's like you're playing with a pen or something like that.
	Anyway.
	Okay, no, that's fine.
	So so why does it tell me the sequence by which you get disrespectful?
	I'm not disagreeing with you.
	I just want to make sure I understand you're thinking that how is it you get disrespectful?
	The if it were the other way, if the shoe were on the other foot, it would be no, no, but I'm asking, no, no, I'm not asking for a reversal.
	I'm asking your feelings.
	Like, let's take an extreme example, right?
	So if your wife was peeing and then one of your daughters was running out the front door and she got up and ran downstairs, would it bother you that she didn't flush?
	No.
	So it's not innate in not flushing that it's disrespectful.
	Does that mean?
	Like if she slaps you in the face in public, that's disrespectful no matter what, right?
	Okay, yeah, I understand what you're going to do.
	But not right, so so but not flushing is not innately in and of itself disrespectful because we can think of circumstances where I'm going to answer your question.
	I don't mean to cut you off.
	Yeah, now you explained it sufficiently.
	It never happens anywhere except at home.
	Only with me.
	How do you know?
	Well, I mean, we only.
	You don't go check her in the bathroom at the restaurant.
	Well, I don't check at the restaurant, but I know when we're traveling with family and I know when we're traveling with friends, it never happens then.
	So, I mean, I guess.
	But hang on, hang on.
	But something, and I'm just going to play devil's advocate here, right?
	But something that happens only at home is not innately disrespectful.
	I mean, you don't have sex in front of your friends, right?
	You don't walk around in your pajamas in front of your friends, right?
	But you do at home.
	So that's not, again, I'm just playing devil's advocate.
	That's not innately disrespectful to do something at home that you don't do in public or with others.
	I agree.
	Yes.
	Correct.
	So there's something else.
	Do you want me to continue on?
	I'm not saying that it's not disrespectful.
	What I'm saying is that it's not innately disrespectful because it's relatively unimportant, right?
	I mean, if it happens a couple of times a week or five times a week or whatever, you just flush and it takes a grand total of a minute out of your week.
	Are you sure there's nothing going on?
	You're not fluffed with papers or very loud.
	Can you just sit and not do stuff?
	Yeah.
	I didn't really.
	I mean, if you have a sensitive mic, it's not on me, right?
	Correct.
	It's not innately disrespectful.
	It's one of many things that are only done at home and only occur with me.
	And then I'm bananas to pick up the slack on.
	And like I said, I'm a working father of a one-income household.
	And it's very frustrating.
	And no, sorry, what is frustrating?
	Is it that the place is not, the house is not kept well?
	Isn't that correct?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	And did she grow up with a mother who taught her how to keep a house well?
	She grew up with two working parents and a sort of nanny situation.
	I don't know if they'd call it a nanny, but.
	Okay, so she was not taught how to keep a house.
	And did you know that when you married her?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And so you married a woman who didn't know how to keep a house.
	So that's like marrying a woman who doesn't know how to speak Japanese and then being annoyed that she doesn't speak Japanese.
	Well, she Yeah, I mean, you can frame it that way.
	No, no, hang on.
	It's not just a framing.
	I'm not just trying to frame it a certain way.
	Well, I was going to say, did she, hang on?
	So, has your wife, has your wife acknowledged that she doesn't know how to run a good house and that she needs to start studying and learn how to do it?
	No.
	Okay, so she doesn't see a deficiency, right?
	No, she thinks she's killing it.
	Okay.
	So has your before you got married, did your wife admit fault when she was in the wrong and work to improve?
	No.
	So what are you complaining about?
	I'm sorry, I'm now genuinely baffled.
	Like you married a woman knowing exactly who she was, and now you're upset about exactly who she is.
	I'm sorry, help me understand.
	It's like I married my wife knowing she's five foot two, and I'm like, man, she's short.
	That's disrespectful.
	Yeah, I'd like her to grow.
	I'd like her to grow.
	No, I'm asking for advice, knowing full well what the situation is on how to have someone.
	No, no, you got you accept.
	Do you love your wife?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So love her.
	I mean, honestly, like this pick and choose buffet thing.
	Well, I like this about you, but I don't like that about you.
	Well, this is good.
	Look, I'm sure is she a good mother?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And do you guys have a sex life?
	Not great.
	Not great these days.
	Oh, what's your scarcity situation?
	She's gained a ton of, again, going back to the conversation the other day was very on point in a number of ways.
	She's gained a ton of weight since having two kids, and that was a couple of years ago.
	Okay.
	Right.
	So the problem is that when you're eating it, man, my mind might get sensitive every time I touch anything.
	Okay, I keep this like the fourth, bro.
	Bro, this is the fourth time.
	Hang on.
	I mean, but you understand that you're complaining to me about your wife's annoying habits.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	You're right.
	You don't think she has anything to complain about?
	I mean, I've known you for 10 minutes and I've got things to complain about.
	Okay.
	So were you, you knew that she didn't admit fault before you got married, right?
	Not to the extent that I do now, but yes.
	No, no, you said she never admitted fault.
	Okay, how long did you know her before you got married?
	A while.
	You're right.
	But it's gotten worse.
	Like years?
	Yeah, years.
	Yeah.
	Five, six years.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	So you had five or six years.
	Are you grotesquely ugly or have three arms or some reason why you could only possibly get one woman?
	Okay.
	So you're like someone who's like, well, I don't have to get a car, but I've chosen to get a car.
	Okay, I've chosen a car.
	I've test-driven a whole bunch of different cars.
	I've chosen this car.
	I've now, I leased it for four years.
	I finally bought it.
	And now I'm complaining about it.
	Yeah.
	So she knows that you're picking and choosing.
	And I don't understand if you love someone and you date, get engaged, get married, have two kids, and then saying there are things I don't like.
	The person is the person.
	It's not a buffet.
	Yeah.
	And also, a lot of times, and I'm not saying this is true for you, but a lot of times people criticize other people because they think they're perfect, but you're not perfect because you pick and choose.
	You pick and choose what you like and you pick and choose what you love.
	You say, Well, I like this part about my wife, but I don't like this part.
	This part is good.
	I love this part.
	This part is disrespectful.
	And you're carving her up like a turkey dura.
	When you say, I do, you say I do to everyone, to every part of the person.
	Yeah, that's that's correct.
	And that's the Christian understanding.
	You want flesh.
	Correct.
	That's the Christian understanding and Christian interpretation of everything.
	What about if people change in a fundamental manner?
	And what do you know?
	That's why I asked, did she admit fault before you got married?
	No.
	And you said no, never.
	But it's gotten worse.
	So you chose.
	No, what do you mean?
	How do you get worse from never admitting fault?
	There's no, there's like zero, right?
	It's like, can you be shorter than zero feet?
	Sure.
	I mean, in the past, she never admitted fault, but now she really doesn't admit fault.
	Yeah.
	Now, what I suspect, what I suspect is that you come home and she gives you a list of things that you need to do around the house.
	Do you want me to answer that?
	Yes or no?
	Actually, the answer is no.
	It's handled.
	It's mostly handled.
	Oh, sorry.
	I thought you said you do everything when you get home.
	You do everything to help her.
	Yeah, but on any given day, I come home and it's just like, no, just take care of the kids.
	Just get them to bed.
	Like, stuff is mostly handled outside of just handling the immediacy of the kids.
	Okay, yeah, no.
	I mean, you can't, I mean, you can't not parent, right?
	So, so, yeah, it's like you come home, but it's not like you come home and you've got a sink full of dishes and three baskets of laundry and you got a vacuum and like there's no food.
	And like, so she's running the household to some degree.
	She maybe not.
	No, she's not.
	Oh, she's not.
	Okay, so when you come home, what do you need to do?
	I come home, and oftentimes, I'm making dinner.
	I'm often, I'm always in the dishes.
	I'm always doing the laundry, which is like the most basic.
	Bro, I just, sorry, this is so confusing to me.
	I just asked you, does she give you?
	Oh, she doesn't give you a list, but there is a list.
	Sorry, because I said, do you come home and she gives you a list of things that you have to do?
	And you said no.
	Well, I think of a list in terms of like, can you take manly, manly things to do, like the things that a typical man does.
	Okay, so you have a sorry, just be clear.
	So you have a bunch of housework that you have to do when you get home.
	Okay.
	Is she depressed?
	My guess is yes.
	Yes.
	Go on.
	Or something.
	And what would you say are the indications of her depression?
	Mega constant use of drugs.
	Particularly.
	Hang on.
	Drugs?
	What are you talking about?
	Weed, mainly smoking weed.
	Whoa, Hang on.
	Hold the phone here.
	She's parenting and high?
	Yeah.
	You can't allow that.
	Well, like I said, when I bring stuff up, I get screamed at.
	So that goes back to my original comment.
	That was the original.
	Okay.
	How high is she?
	She smokes twice a day.
	Okay.
	And she's in charge of two little children and she's stoned.
	She doesn't tell me how much she smokes, but geez.
	You just said twice a day.
	Right.
	She doesn't tell me how much she how much she smokes.
	I don't know how smoking is.
	Okay, so bro, bro.
	I'm not sure.
	Is she a drug addict?
	Is she a drug addict?
	I mean, by any normal definition, yes.
	And I've told that to her.
	Okay, so she's a drug addict.
	And the house, is the house dangerous to the children at all?
	In other words, is it not safety-proofed and so on?
	Like, the kids can't get at the electrical sockets.
	They can't get at the stove.
	Is it safe?
	It's 100% safe, yes.
	Well, yeah, okay.
	I mean, not if she's a drug addict.
	Okay, and did she, did she abuse drugs before you got married?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Has she is she doing more drugs now or fewer?
	Well, she's been enabled by therapists or psychiatrists, one or the other.
	She's convinced that it's helping her anxiety.
	Oh, so she's got, sorry, please, please, I'm begging you to stop shifting around.
	I'm not doing anything right now.
	Sorry, she's walking around upstairs and I'm trying to help you.
	Oh, yeah, you said she gained a lot of weight.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So is she doing medical marijuana for anxiety?
	This is casual, but it's the excuses that it's the excuses that it's for anxiety or for ADHD or whatever.
	Sorry, I don't quite understand.
	Has she got a prescription for the weed?
	I believe so, but you can also just buy it freely.
	We're in a medical state where you can just buy it.
	So I don't know.
	Have you been to therapy with her?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And what does the therapist say about her drug use?
	The therapy didn't go well.
	We talked about she exploded.
	She wouldn't let me talk.
	She, in his words, flooded.
	And we didn't go back to the therapist and we're looking at a new ones.
	So it didn't go well.
	Do you have any idea why you would marry somebody who takes a lot of drugs?
	Did you grow up with a substance abuser or something like that?
	Was she super hot?
	Was there like, there's got to be something?
	She was very attractive.
	And there were warning signs, but I'm sorry.
	There were or were not warning signs?
	There were.
	There were warning signs.
	Well, I mean, one of the warning signs was that she did drugs.
	Were there others?
	Yeah, she was just a very argumentative person when she was perceived to be wronged.
	And that flagged to me quite early, but it only flagged every so often.
	And now it's a very common issue.
	Okay.
	Why do you think that you married somebody who doesn't admit fault and is very argumentative?
	I don't know.
	Sure, you do.
	If you listen to these children before, you know these causes and effects, right?
	There's something in your past that has you go, this is normal, this is okay, this is acceptable, this is what I'm used to.
	Well, my parents were, I had a very una childhood that was very uninteresting in terms of child abuse.
	I was not abused at all.
	And but my parents were sort of sort of, what do you call it?
	Dormants at times for people in their lives.
	So perhaps.
	Oh, like they got pushed around in the way that you feel pushed around.
	Yeah, and that maybe is what you're, I don't think you have a conclusion in mind, but maybe that's what you're looking for.
	And that's certainly something I've considered that I thought that was maybe a good thing about them and something to emulate.
	And maybe it's not.
	But did you dated your wife for years before you got married?
	And what did your parents think of her?
	Oh, they loved her.
	They loved her.
	Yeah.
	But they were wrong.
	Yeah.
	Have they admitted fault?
	Well, about six to eight months ago, they sat me down and said, did something change?
	What happened?
	And I was like, yeah, like, I've noticed the same thing.
	And you're not wrong to notice that because something fundamentally did change.
	And hang on, hang on.
	What fundamentally changed?
	Her personality, just her behavior.
	No, because she didn't admit fault before she got married and she was on drugs before you got married.
	Now she still doesn't admit fault.
	And I mean, the weight gain, I get, right?
	But so help me out.
	And I'm not saying you're wrong.
	I just don't follow the fundamental part.
	You don't need to walk back stuff like that.
	I'm totally following you and I don't take it personally.
	But yeah, she all of a sudden just stopped sort of being nice, just sort of stopped being just sort of stopped being interested in family stuff.
	And it was two years ago and our youngest daughter is two and a half years old.
	So it aligns with that, aligns with probably going back on certain medications from her psychiatrist or her therapist, probably aligns somewhat with some level of drug use.
	But yeah.
	Oh, so she's on SSRIs and weed.
	Yeah.
	Is that safe?
	No.
	And if I mention anything, I screamed at.
	So again, going back to the original comment, yes, I'd love to know what you have.
	How do I get out of this death spiral?
	Because I agree.
	I just want to look here.
	Is SSRIs and weed a dangerous combo?
	It's a very bad combo, yes, potentially.
	Well, I mean, it says, no, it's not considered entirely safe, can carry notable risks, although it's not universally dangerous for everyone.
	And what was her childhood like?
	She did not have a great driving.
	She lost a brother when she was quite young.
	She was 12 or 13, and he was 8 or 9, something like that.
	And so that sort of— Sorry, was it an accident or illness or something else?
	It was.
	It was a freak weird thing, just sort of like a heart attack for a kid.
	I've never really gotten a great answer because I'm not sure they're prepared to give me one, even if they had it.
	But they all got genetically checked for whatever it was to see if it was genetic.
	And they're pretty comfortable that it's not.
	But no, but she had a pretty normal upper, middle class to lower, upper class upbringing with parents who were mildly, I would say, verbally abusive at times about weight and about behavior.
	Yeah, that's the majority of her childhood.
	And then when she was in her upper teens, sort of late, Late high school, she claimed she has raped and sent claims.
	I realize sounds bad, but um, sorry, she got raped.
	I didn't quite catch the rest of you.
	She she terms it as she got raped, but um, multiple multiple guys had sex with her.
	She ended up getting, um, I don't want to go into too much detail just for doxing purposes.
	Um, but um, I'm I'm not, um, it doesn't seem to me like that's a huge driver of anything.
	And maybe that's a shortcoming of sorry.
	She says, I just want to don't again, don't do it too much detail, but you said she got raped and there was multiple guys.
	Was that did she get raped by multiple men?
	That's the story that I've been told once in over 10 years of relationship.
	And yeah, but that's that's what I've been told, yes.
	And when did you find out that she had been raped by multiple men?
	Or when did you find out that she'd been raped at all and then by the multiple men?
	Like one year, less than one year into the relationship.
	Okay, less than a year into the relationship.
	She said I was raped by multiple men.
	And did you talk to your parents about this?
	Not about that, no.
	Why not?
	Did you talk to anyone about it?
	No.
	Okay.
	And why do you think you kept it to yourself?
	I mean, that's a heavy burden to carry in a difficult, a difficult thing.
	Why I kept myself.
	I don't know why I kept myself initially, but over the years, and the reason that I sound somewhat dismissible, which I realize I come across as, but that's sort of intentional.
	But I also try and hedge those comments is that I've realized that she just sort of she changes details.
	And I saw this on like one of our first dates.
	The bouncer won't let me in the bar, like, oh, what an asshole.
	And then, and then I find out, like, okay, well, you're waste, like, of course, a bouncer only in the bar, but I'm, I'm the, I'm the idiot trying to defend her honor to a guy twice my size.
	And that was sort of the trend.
	So I can't answer your question.
	I don't, I don't know why.
	I don't know why I would have brought that up to my parents.
	Maybe, maybe people with more comfortable relationships with their parents.
	I have a great relationship with my parents, but not that kind.
	And maybe, maybe it should be that kind of relationship, but it's not.
	I don't know who I would have brought that up to.
	And so I didn't.
	So your parents would ask you how things are going or you kept that from her, right?
	Yeah, I didn't tell them that, Didelia, of course.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	I mean, that's more than a detail, right?
	Okay.
	If you have a son and your son kept that from you, what would you think if he was dating and you didn't, he didn't tell you?
	I'm not sure I'd be that offended.
	I don't know.
	I don't feel like that's his detail this year.
	And I don't think I wouldn't be offended if she didn't share that with me as the parent either.
	Oh, I'd be high.
	Yeah, I'd be highly offended.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I'd be highly offended.
	Just as a father, I mean, I wouldn't say that I blame, I'd be looking to myself as to why my son wouldn't tell me that.
	But why do you think as a father, I would be upset if my son didn't disclose this kind of horrific situation from his girlfriend?
	Sorry, sorry.
	I'm sorry if I missed it.
	Was there a specific question there?
	Sorry if I missed it.
	Why do you think I would be upset if my son hid from me the fact that his girlfriend had been raped by multiple men?
	I don't think it's hiding.
	So I guess I disagree with the framing of the question, but to attempt to answer it because it speaks to her past and my future as a family man.
	That's my guess.
	Because he would be bringing this woman into my family.
	Yeah.
	So his future family.
	And he would be, this is who, I mean, the grandchildren are a quarter of mine genetically, and this is who he's choosing to raise my grandchildren.
	And this is who he's bringing into my life.
	So I have a say.
	I don't have a final say.
	Obviously, it's his life.
	But I sure as hell would want to know.
	And they still don't know, right?
	No, they don't know that deal.
	No.
	Right.
	Adult victims of rape or sexual assault face significantly elevated risks for a range of long-term negative outcomes.
	Outcomes vary widely, but PTSD, 50% in some studies.
	Depression, 13% to 51%.
	Anxiety disorders, 12% to 40%.
	Suicidal ideation or attempts, 23 to 44% report ideation.
	Survivors are up to 13 times more likely to attempt suicide.
	Substance use disorders, 13 to 49% develop alcohol problems, 3 to 6 times higher risk.
	28 to 61% for drug use, up to 10 times for certain drugs, often used as coping mechanisms.
	Survivors report higher rates of chronic conditions, adjusted odds, often 1.4 to 2 times greater, asthma, irritable bowel syndrome, chronic pain, frequent headaches, difficulty sleeping.
	Overall, poorer self-rated health, activity limitations, and higher healthcare utilization, between 122,000 and 123,000, including medical and lost productivity.
	Lower marital relationship satisfaction, higher instability, and elevated divorce risk due to trust issues, intimacy difficulties, sexual dysfunction, and re-victimization.
	And she seems to have some of that, right?
	Yes, on to my life.
	Unfortunately.
	I know you don't like the laugh, but.
	All right, let's look at the relationship between rape and obesity.
	There is a well-established association between experiences of rape or sexual assault and increased risk of obesity in adulthood.
	So survivors have a 31 to 36% higher odds of obesity compared to non-survivors.
	Now, some of this is mixed in with childhood sexual abuse and so on, right?
	So you took on quite a burden.
	Yeah, I guess I didn't realize that at the time.
	Yeah.
	How long has she been going to therapy for?
	She.
	Sorry, one moment.
	She claims roughly five years, and that's roughly how long we've lived here.
	It seems like it's been shorter than that, but it is around the corner.
	So it could be.
	Sorry, she claims five years.
	What do you mean?
	Well, I haven't tracked it that closely.
	Sorry, but you pay the bills, right?
	Yeah.
	Oh, you just put the money in and she pays the bills.
	No, I pay the bills.
	I pay the solution.
	So you know if she's going to therapy, right?
	Well, I don't, I just don't track it.
	For a long time, money was not an issue, and now it is.
	So now I track it.
	But She says she's been going there since 2021.
	And I believe that that's when we moved here.
	And so this is her after five years of therapy.
	Yeah.
	And it's only gotten worse, as far as I can tell.
	In terms of well, she's going to a psychiatrist, though, right?
	So how much of it is talk therapy and how much of it is just getting pills?
	The psychiatrist, I think, is just like three or four times a year.
	And the therapy is weekly to bi-weekly, maybe monthly sometimes.
	Oh, so she's got two mental health professionals.
	And do they know that she's also doing weed?
	I don't know.
	And I'm debating telling that.
	I don't know the ethics of that.
	Sorry, what do you mean the ethics?
	I mean, you're not bound by any confidentiality clauses.
	But I am married to her.
	And it could be dangerous.
	I agree.
	And so this is, I completely agree that it is a question.
	But I think you should, I mean, I'm sure you'd be welcome at a therapy session.
	It's not like you're not allowed to go, right?
	I'm guessing if I asked to go to one of her personal ones, maybe I'd be welcome if they knew in advance that that was what I was planning.
	If we plan it events, yes, sure.
	Yeah, look, I'm no expert at all, right?
	But my obviously amateur understanding is that therapy doesn't work if you're self-medicating through addiction.
	Sorry, you agree?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Sorry, I'm a little confused now.
	So you're paying for something that can't work when you have financial issues?
	Yes.
	The answer to your question is yes.
	But I am fully in agreement that this therapist is potentially working against my best interests in terms of maybe the therapist doesn't know.
	I don't know.
	I agree.
	And maybe the therapist does know and is still encouraging her to go in indirectly.
	Yeah, most therapists will not conduct a full therapy session if a client is noticeably high or intoxicated.
	Okay.
	Because the therapy is supposed to help you deal with uncomfortable or difficult feelings.
	And if you are numbing those with drugs or a combination with drugs and whatever the combo of drugs and esorhizia, I assume that therapy can't really help you much.
	And also, of course, a therapist is supposed to help you better communicate and not just scream at people, as you say, right, if she's contradicted, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I think that, I mean, I obviously have some concern.
	I don't agree with parenting while high.
	I think it's totally wrong.
	Because you can't be there emotionally if you dissociate it with drugs.
	And you also are not going to have the clarity of thinking that you need to parent in a safe and careful manner.
	And heaven forbid, there's some kind of emergency, right?
	I agree.
	I mean, she has to drive during the day, right?
	Yeah.
	And driving high?
	Oh, mostly she drives in the morning before anything happened, before any of us.
	But yes, the answer is yes.
	At times, yes.
	Often.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I won't go into my usual rant about people who drive while under the influence.
	I fucking hate people like that.
	I'll just be straight up with you.
	That's straight up hatred because they're putting, I mean, not only their own lives and their children's lives, but innocent people's lives at risk.
	She does not have the right to do that at all, even remotely.
	So I can't tell you what to do.
	Obviously, I'm not that kind of guy.
	But if I was in your shoes, I would certainly make sure that the therapist and the psychiatrist, like you could just call and say, I mean, she's also doing marijuana.
	Is that part of the treatment protocol?
	Do you know that?
	Okay.
	Because it could be highly dangerous.
	Yeah, I agree.
	And if she's withholding that from her providers, I assume that's pretty bad, right?
	So again, you know, maybe you want to talk to a lawyer or at least look things up and find out if this is acceptable or allowable.
	But in general, what I would do is maybe not even call them up, but go to, say, the psychologist.
	And, you know, if the psychologist says, oh, well, what are you here for?
	And you can say, well, I'm concerned about her drug use.
	Which you are, right?
	I'm exceedingly, yes.
	Right.
	And so in that way, you're not having a sidebar, so to speak, but you're having the conversation with your wife there, right?
	Well, she wouldn't be there, I assume, right?
	You're not saying with her there.
	Oh, why not have both of you there?
	Oh, that could be ugly.
	I don't know.
	Well, you think it's not going to be ugly if she finds out later?
	It will be, correct?
	I think it would be.
	And I think it would be better to have a mediator there.
	Yeah, probably.
	If she's acting in ways that are dangerous to your children, and I don't know, obviously I'm just getting this story for the first time, so I can't say for sure or not, right?
	But if, but if, like, you just have an unfortunate responsibility that you need to keep your kids safe.
	Yeah.
	However, that is achieved.
	And I'm really, I'm really sorry for all of this.
	It sounds very tragic.
	I'm trying to figure it out.
	It's not fun.
	Okay.
	Well, I certainly appreciate your time and attention on this.
	You're welcome.
	And please, please drop me a line support at freedom.com and let me know how things are going.
	If you feel you can or if you feel it's okay, I'd certainly love to hear some follow-up.
	And I wish you the very best.
	And I really do appreciate your sensitivity in trying to figure out this stuff and what's best for your kids.
	It's a very difficult situation.
	And I really do sympathize.
	And the more direct conversation you can have, particularly with her and your therapist, I think the better.
	And this is going to be how you turn around your families.
	As you said, your parents somewhat passive and kind of quail before more aggressive personalities.
	And your kids are just going to need you to step up and make sure that they're safe.
	That's the main thing I'm worried about is seeing this example of just getting screamed at and saying, okay, I'm just not going to deal with this.
	Like you get your way.
	Well, they're going to end up turning into her.
	And I'm sure that's not the legacy you want.
	Right.
	And the oldest is very logical and rational.
	And obviously she's older.
	But the younger one is going through her terrible twos.
	And it's like, how much of this is just seeing cancer?
	Well, no, so don't, no, no, don't just say the terrible twos, bro.
	You said your wife got depressed right after her birthday.
	I was about to agree with you.
	I was going to say, I'm not sure how much of this is the behavior that she's observing, that if you throw a big new tantrum, then you get your way.
	And we do.
	Well, and also how much can if her mother is fundamentally changed or has dissociated emotionally, then she's not getting that kind of closeness with her mother that breeds empathy.
	Okay.
	I haven't thought about it that way.
	But I will definitely be re-listening to this conversation.
	I appreciate it.
	All right, brother.
	Well, best of luck.
	And, you know, big hug, big sympathy.
	And please check with experts before making any decisions.
	And I really do appreciate your openness in this call.
	I'm sorry, AD Twin, that we did not get to you, but it's been a long old chat.
	And I hope that you guys have a good evening.
	I really appreciate everybody's openness and honesty here.
	Freedomain.com/slash donate to help out the show.
	And don't forget, YouTube at Freedomain One, the number one, is where you can get the newest shows that are audio only.
	The sort of audio shows that I do always get published there first.
	Lots of love, everyone.
	Thank you for a great conversation tonight.

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