Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux - How Society Betrays Children!

Dec. 18, 2025 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

01:58:29

How Society Betrays Children!

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	Good evening, good evening to business, my friends, we have a correction.
	It is the 17th of December, 2025.
	Only a few more shopping days until Christmas, shop.freedomain.com.
	All right.
	So Peter Twinkledge, I'm blaming him for everything.
	Everything, I tell you.
	So Peter Twinkledge wrote, imagine the reaction if a Democrat spoke this way about Charlie Kirk.
	And I said, Charlie Kirk didn't spout hatred and call people fascists and racists.
	Close your mouth.
	Now, why did I say that?
	Apparently, just because I like being wrong about things.
	I said that because I've seen a bunch of Charlie Kirk speeches.
	I never saw anything like that.
	I met the man.
	I did some work with him together back in the day in St. Louis and just didn't seem like him.
	I did not say that, right?
	Sorry, I said that.
	Anyway, so the community note is Charlie Kirk called Joe Biden a fascist.
	And now people is the plural, right?
	So if somebody says, I was a little caddy, I suppose, and this woman was nagging me about it.
	And I said, okay, so imagine you have a boyfriend.
	Just imagine you have a boyfriend and your boyfriend says, people are coming over tonight.
	People are coming over tonight.
	Would you assume that's one person or more than one person?
	Of course, you'd say people.
	If he said a person or a friend, if he says people, so that's plural.
	So I guess this is just kind of an education thing.
	It's a basic education thing, right?
	So when I say, oh, close your mouth was not my, was not my first phrase.
	But so he didn't call people fascists and racist.
	Now, this was in the context of, you know, people being called racist and Nazis just for supporting Trump, which is like half the country or whatever, right?
	So Charlie Kirk called Joe Biden a fascist.
	So that's not people.
	Now, I guess, right?
	And somebody was saying he also referred to Justin Trudeau as a fascist.
	So that's not in the context of the conversation, which was calling half of America fascist for supporting Donald Trump.
	So, but he did say, Charlie Cump did, Charlie, sorry, Charlie Trump.
	Charlie Kirk did say that he said, you know, Democrats are racists.
	Change my mind or prove me wrong or something like that.
	So he did.
	He did do that.
	I haven't seen too much of the half the country of fascists, but he did say that Democrats are racist.
	I don't think he meant just Democrat politicians.
	I think he meant Democrats as a whole.
	So yes, now he did, I could get, I could start splitting hairs, right?
	I could.
	I won't.
	But I could start splitting hairs.
	So if he says, well, if we'd say, well, he called Charlie Kirk a fascist, called Joe Biden a fascist.
	Was Joe Biden acting in a fascist manner?
	But that's not, you know, what's relevant.
	It's not relevant, right?
	Because I said he didn't call people fascists.
	He called one guy fascist.
	Maybe there's more, but I don't believe that he called half of America fascist.
	But he did say that Democrats, Dems are the real racists, right?
	Democrats are racist.
	So, yep, that's a perfectly valid correction.
	I don't know why it is people are so terrified of being wrong.
	I was wrong about something.
	I mean, I have a pretty good track record as a whole, if you bought Bitcoin back in 2011, right?
	So I have a pretty good track record as a whole.
	And I never saw him do that.
	I could have done a search.
	No question.
	I could have done a search.
	I didn't.
	And sometimes I do a search, and it's not important.
	This is not a particularly important one.
	I mean, both Charlie Kirk, unfortunately, are dead, as is Rob Reiner, which is in the context of this conversation.
	So, Yes, I was wrong.
	And so what?
	Honestly, I mean, obviously, I want to correct.
	I want to be, I prefer to be right.
	I try to be right.
	And I was wrong.
	And I don't, you know, of course, nobody, the leftists coming in and pouring, you're totally getting owned.
	You're getting destroyed.
	You're a fascist yourself.
	That's just hysterical nonsense, right?
	Because, I mean, it wasn't like a conscious trap, but it kind of turns into a trap, right?
	It turns into a trap because what I did was I said, hey, thanks, all the leftists who came in to correct me.
	Thank you.
	I appreciate that.
	I want to get things right.
	And if I was wrong in this, I wanted to get it right.
	So, yes, I was wrong.
	And Charlie Kirk did call people, a lot of people, racists.
	So the leftists coming in saying, you're wrong.
	Okay, fair.
	Okay.
	So then I posted back and I said, can you show me all the times where you, and I gave a whole list of Democrat hoaxes, right?
	Can you show me where you corrected yourself on these hoaxes that have been long disproven?
	And of course, there was not one single, and we knew this, right?
	We know this.
	It's not one single instance where the leftists have said, well, yes, I was wrong about this.
	Therefore, I've corrected.
	So they don't care about corrections.
	They don't care about accuracy.
	They just like it.
	They get this little flash of sadistic power when you have made a mistake and you're in the wrong.
	I just grind him down.
	It's just dysfunctional, shitty family stuff.
	Really is.
	You know, like that one time in the weird family or the dysfunctional family, you drop a plate and forever you're the clumsy one.
	Hey, remember you dropped that plate?
	You know?
	So they don't care about truth.
	They don't care about accuracy.
	I do.
	So yes, I'll correct.
	And I've said that I was incorrect.
	And then they do all of this weird thing where it's like they mind read.
	You're doing this for engagement.
	You know, you knew you were lying when you said like there's just weird mind reading.
	I don't understand.
	I don't understand that stuff at all.
	This sort of weird mind reading where they could read your secret motives and so on.
	But it's a funny thing.
	And I would say this as a whole, you know, when people have made a mistake or publicly have gotten something wrong, if you, if you like, you turn into this rabid pit doll, pit doll, I used to be able to speak.
	Man, those were good times when I was able to actually say something coherent.
	I enjoyed that phase of my career as well.
	I think it was fun.
	But should we just take a moment and look back and enjoy when I could spout some syllables that weren't all colliding into each other like a bunch of charging Japanese commuters on a subway train?
	I mean, those were nice times.
	Those were nice times.
	So if you like, you savage people who've made a mistake, it doesn't like, it doesn't mess me up because I don't have a standard of perfection, right?
	I don't have a standard of perfection.
	I'm going to do stuff.
	Every now and then, I'm going to make a mistake.
	Yeah.
	I think I've got a pretty good track record.
	I have to sort of say, sorry, I was wrong, you know, maybe once or twice a year.
	And I do hundreds of shows and thousands of tweets and blah, It's a pretty good track record.
	I mean, these people still watch The View and it seems like every other day they have to apologize to Trump.
	So, but the people who dunk, you know, and we all have that urge.
	Like I understand, oh, someone I don't like is publicly wrong.
	I'm going to go in and shock attack them.
	Let their reputation fall like that kid's leg in the movie Jaws, right?
	I get that.
	But you resist it, right?
	Why do you resist it?
	Because I'm irresistible.
	You resist it because if you savage people who make mistakes, you have put yourself in the mindset of, I can't make a mistake.
	I can't make a mistake.
	Right.
	Because the moment somebody else made a mistake, I attacked them.
	And so you set up this whole attack vector.
	So you can't make mistakes.
	And what that means, since everyone makes mistakes, is you can never admit that you're wrong.
	I don't fear admitting that I'm wrong.
	Like, I got something completely wrong about the movie Joker a couple of years ago.
	And it was because I was making notes and I missed something on screen and I fought people and then they said, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong.
	So I paid to watch the stupid movie again and I was wrong.
	And I said, hey, I'm totally wrong.
	I don't like, I don't, what's wrong with admitting that you're wrong?
	You're not perfect and so on, right?
	So if people attack or savage someone who's in the wrong, it doesn't hurt me.
	I continue.
	And, you know, people who are of sound mind or reasonable approaches to life, they respect me for being wrong and saying that I'm wrong and correcting myself, which I'm doing.
	And maybe stuff will come up where Charlie Kirk said, all of the Democrats are fascists.
	Okay.
	And then I'll be wrong, not just 50%, but 100% wrong.
	All right.
	So again, it's not exactly a consequential mistake, right?
	It's not like I didn't misprescribe medicine and got someone killed.
	I didn't make some massive mistake.
	He's dead.
	Rob Breiner's dead.
	It's not like anybody's foundationally changed by me making a mistake.
	So what happens, though, is that if you savage and attack people who've made mistakes, then you can't make mistakes.
	What that means is the real consequence, I want to really, really get your attention on this is really important.
	Let me ask the audience here.
	Let me ask the audience.
	Minus 10, you're terrified of risk.
	Plus 10, you may be a bit of a thrill junkie.
	Plus 10.
	But where do you stand in terms of taking risks in life?
	Starting a business, asking the girl out, ask the guy out, cooking bacon in the nude, like whatever is your thing.
	What is it like for you?
	Yes, Kay, I can see that being an eight for you.
	I can see that being an eight.
	So that's plus eight, 8.5.
	So you're pro risk, but not insane risk, right?
	Chris is a four.
	Mc3 is a zero.
	And when I was younger, a 10, yeah, 10 is a little bit too much because that's, I had a, I had a friend of mine who was a 10 with regards to risk.
	He would take his bike and like ride it off high walls and it was nuts.
	It was nuts.
	And he ended up dying from motorbike in a motorbike accident.
	It was terrible with his risk.
	Zabantez saying seven.
	Right.
	Right.
	So if you attack people who make mistakes, then you can't make mistakes.
	If you can't make mistakes, you can't take risks.
	I spit out my two front teeth in a dirt bike accident.
	Yeah.
	Well, you being careless.
	I mean, a lot of these things aren't totally accidents, right?
	I mean, there are some accidents for sure.
	But when I sort of am harsh with myself, I look back on the things that I made a mistake.
	Like in my 20s, I went to pick up some Venetian blinds and had them hanging from my bike as I was biking home.
	And there was a girl I wasn't getting along with at the time.
	And she's like, that's dangerous.
	And I'm like, no, it's not.
	Because I just fought.
	You know, I was just in a fighty mood.
	And then I, and she was right, right?
	I'd had to swerve because there was a subway grate, a subway grade, a sewage grade.
	And the Venetian blind swung into the spokes.
	I went over the handlebar and cracked my forearm.
	She was totally right.
	That wasn't an accident.
	That was bad relationship choices.
	It's not all of them.
	No helmet and riding on the road.
	Yeah, well, that'll do it.
	So if you attack people for making mistakes, you will end up in a life where you can't take risks.
	If you end up in a life where you can't take risks, then you have a nothing life.
	Life is nothing without risk.
	Nothing.
	I speak a little bit more to the testicular, testicularly inclined members of the audience.
	But life is nothing without risk.
	Life without risk is death.
	Breathing is risk.
	Going down the stairs is risk.
	But you want to have the ability to take risks in your life.
	And one of the horrible things that happens with self-attack or what's known as growing up without a father, because if you grow up without a father, your mother who's paranoid if you get injured or sick is constantly called you, oh, be careful.
	Oh, be careful.
	Right.
	There's this great comedian from many, many years ago now who was talking about how his mother, his mother would drop into this whisper when she was talking about dangerous things.
	If you jump off that, if you jump off that bridge, you're going to end up like little Bobby up the street who can't write his own name.
	You get into this horrified, dangerous, desperate voodoo whisper.
	And I've seen it.
	I mean, I've seen, I don't know what is the worst thing that you've seen in terms of someone taking risks.
	Oh, man, it's rough.
	Whew.
	I remember a guy in my boarding school who was doing flips, jumping into the pool and hit his head and was unnoticed for a couple of minutes and ended up with permanent brain damage.
	It happens, man.
	There's danger.
	But, you know, what's the alternative?
	Right.
	It's like the parents, the moms in particular, oh, don't go out.
	I know if you're here and playing video games, I know where you are.
	I know you're safe.
	It's like, but you're not really safe because you're home kind of rotting in your own flesh, right?
	Because you're not moving about, right?
	You got to go out as a kid, and particularly as boys, you got to go out and you got to measure your risk.
	And you got to try some risky stuff and you've got to go too far.
	Because if you go too little, then you grow up without an ability to take on risk with some reasonable comfort or reasonable confidence that you're going to be able to overcome it.
	You must, must, must embrace risk.
	And everyone who's a parent, you know, you understand this, right?
	I remember being in Florida many years ago, my wife and daughter, my daughter wanted to jump over a garbage can from, and my wife was like, no, and I'm like, let her.
	Let her.
	She'll figure it out.
	She'll figure out the level of risk that's appropriate.
	If you're not allowed to do that, then everything is scary.
	Because you can't assess risk.
	And if you can't assess risk, you can't succeed.
	You can't succeed in life if you can't assess risk.
	And you can't assess risk without royally screwing up.
	Without royally screwing up, you cannot learn to assess risk.
	So if I'm like, I have to triple check everything I post.
	No, I don't.
	All I have to do is apologize and correct.
	Right?
	I don't have to be paranoid about getting everything right.
	I just have to be willing to admit when I'm wrong and put out a correction.
	Yes, Charlie Kirk did refer to Democrats as racists.
	Now, he did say, change my mind, which means me, I could say, well, he didn't really, it was like a hypothesis.
	And he said, change, right?
	Also, why consequences matter.
	Exactly right.
	Yeah, so you're right.
	You're absolutely right.
	So if you shield people from negative consequences, they lose the ability to assess risk.
	Which is why, Which is why women have the liberty to date idiots now, right?
	Because negative consequences have been taken away from having children with the wrong guy.
	This is a Freedom Man hat, by the way.
	Do you like?
	I think it's nice.
	Yeah, this is one from a while ago.
	This is the new one.
	I quite like it.
	Also, we're getting, I think, yeah, the shortened version of peaceful parenting is out as well.
	All right.
	Anyway, enough of that.
	But I appreciate, and I appreciate everyone's feedback.
	I appreciate the community notes.
	I got it wrong.
	And Charlie did something that I didn't think he was doing.
	And that's fine.
	And that is fine.
	Boy, it looks like they really got in for war with Russia now.
	Boy, I miss the days in some ways when the communists love Russia because it was still communist.
	Now that it's Christian and nationalist, and God forbid, run by a white guy.
	Steph, why do you think conservatives are so eager to break bread with communists and simp for Rob Reiner?
	I mean, to me, Rob Reiner was an absolute wretched human being.
	You know, his family's falling apart and he spends 10 years like obsessively focusing on his hatred for Donald Trump.
	And that's not, that's not great.
	It's not good.
	It's not wise.
	It's not helpful.
	It's not healthy at all.
	So I think he's pretty terrible.
	So it's this sort of criticism thing, right?
	If you're going to do stuff that you know people are going to bag on you for, a lot of people quail.
	And I'm not complaining about that.
	I'm just sort of saying that that's kind of a fact.
	So if someone who's made, he made some great movies.
	I mean, he really did make some great movies.
	So what?
	I mean, Roman Polanski made some great movies.
	We still raped a kid, right?
	Or at least ran from the charges and fled to France when charged with this stuff.
	So just because somebody's a good artist clearly doesn't make them a good person.
	Freedom aid.
	So if somebody is killed, is murdered, and then you have negative things to say about them, you know, everyone's going to be like, now's not the time, bro.
	It's too soon.
	You shouldn't be better.
	Be classier.
	Don't fall to their level.
	Don't like they're just going to give a whole bunch of frightened girly cucks running around, right?
	Nope.
	No.
	No, he was a bad guy.
	He was a really bad guy.
	Rob Reiner cheered on the brutal silencing of Alex Jones.
	He was not a free speech guy.
	He raised a drug addict and God himself probably be, I hate to be blasphemous, but God himself probably doesn't even know the evils that were done to that child.
	Again, I get these menendous vibes, which doesn't mean anything other than my particular thoughts.
	So it's just a matter of, see, if someone's a bad guy and they're suffering negative consequences as a result of being a bad guy, and then you say he's a bad guy when he dies, then the leftists want you to shut up about it.
	Say, later, later, like when nobody cares anymore and it's long in the rear view and blah, blah, blah.
	They go right now, it's too soon.
	It's like, no, this is exactly now.
	Why?
	You should do it while he's in the news.
	All right.
	Somebody says, a friend of mine criticized you saying that.
	He consistently moved from weak evidence to strong conclusions.
	He collapses descriptive claims into moral imperatives.
	He treats disagreement as evidence of bad faith.
	He selectively invokes, quote, science, but rejects scientific norms.
	He relies heavily on rhetorical confidence, not validation.
	He consistently frames social conflict as inevitable and immutable.
	He presents himself as a persecuted truth teller, discourages intellectual humility.
	That's quite annoying.
	Not an argument, right?
	None of this is an argument, right?
	None of this is an argument.
	Weak evidence to strong conclusions?
	No evidence for that.
	So he's actually got no evidence.
	Like he's doing, it's called projection, right?
	The first thing to do when someone criticizes you is to assume projection.
	Not the only thing.
	They could be right.
	But I tell you, having been in the public square for 20 plus years, most people are manipulating.
	They're not criticizing.
	So this guy says, and I know this is not a direct quote.
	Steph consistently moved from weak evidence to strong conclusions.
	Okay, where's the evidence?
	If evidence is so important, you should provide some evidence.
	He doesn't.
	He collapses descriptive claims into moral imperatives.
	So he says that I'm violating the is-aught dichotomy, no example.
	He treats disagreement as evidence of bad faith.
	Well, that's just a total lie.
	I constantly say, if I don't have, if I'm saying this is my opinion, I say, hey, I could be wrong.
	This is my opinion.
	I don't have any conclusions.
	I say this absolutely continually.
	He selectively invokes, quote, science, but rejects scientific norms.
	What scientific norms have I rejected?
	What, fucking global warming?
	That's a complete bunch of bullshit.
	And I say that because I did computer modeling in the environmental sphere when I was a programmer and chief technical officer.
	I actually got awards for my coding.
	And I've done business plans.
	I've done business proposals.
	I've done five-year technical plans.
	And that's not science.
	He relies heavily on rhetorical confidence, not validation.
	I don't know what that means.
	He consistently frames social conflict as inevitable and immutable.
	well, that's just a complete lie because I've written entire books about a society free of foundational conflict.
	I've got everyday anarchy, practical anarchy, and my book, The Future, completely talking about how, so I guess just a complete lie.
	He presents himself as a persecuted truth teller.
	But I am.
	I am a persecuted truth teller.
	I mean, I mean, of course I am, right?
	Discourages intellectual humility.
	Nope, that's also completely false.
	I say that I had studied philosophy for 20 years.
	I didn't even know what virtue was, which is why I wrote UPB.
	So anyway, also said you promote Russian state media talking points propaganda.
	So everything that the Russians say is a complete lie, but everything that the West says is completely true.
	That's funny.
	Am I back on YouTube?
	Is there another fan channel?
	Free Domain One, number one on YouTube.
	Somewhere over the rainbow.
	Way up high, there's a...
	All right.
	We got callers.
	Patrick.
	Patrick.
	If you wish to unmute, thank you for your patience.
	I'm all yours.
	What's on your mind?
	No, but really.
	Come back.
	Come back.
	Going once, going twice.
	All right.
	We don't have Patrick with us.
	I don't think I have to give him a check, do I?
	All right, one more try.
	He says, you can now speak if you want to unmute.
	Bum bum bum.
	Fdrurl.com forward slash YouTube.
	YouTube.
	All right.
	I don't think we've got Patrick with us.
	Unless you guys could hear him when I got.
	All right.
	So, yeah, type your questions and comments in here.
	Silvouble, freedomain.com slash donate to help out the show.
	Let me hit me with a why.
	Have you ever been in a relationship where there has been significant weight gain?
	Either you or your partner.
	Like 20-25% of body weight or more.
	Have you ever been in a relationship with significant weight gain?
	This I must know.
	Yes.
	No.
	No.
	Yes.
	20-25% body weight.
	Hmm, no.
	All right.
	Have you dated someone?
	I don't mean just a date.
	Have you dated someone who is obese?
	What is that?
	30 plus BMI?
	Shin obese.
	I think it's 30 plus.
	Yeah.
	BMI over 30 kilograms per meter squared.
	All right.
	Yeah.
	Have you dated someone that way?
	No, no, All right.
	So this is in our relationship advice.
	Wife's 48, female 48.
	Weight tripled over time.
	I, male 40, have a hard time staying attracted.
	I've been with my wife for 16 years.
	In the last six years, since we got married, my wife has been gaining a lot of weight and her health is rapidly declining.
	In the last two years, she's gained upwards of 100 pounds.
	When I bring up figuring out how to get a handle on her health, on our health, she either gets angry, laughs, or makes fun, or flat out tells me that she isn't interested in that.
	I'm not sure if it's related to her weight, but she has started to smell bad and has horrendous breath.
	To the point I could smell it from several feet away when we're out on the town.
	When I bring the odor up or recommend or offer breathments, she gets very angry and defensive.
	She tells me that I'm too sensitive to scents because I notice in comment when people have poor hygiene.
	She says that people are supposed to smell.
	Each person has a unique scent and that doesn't need to be masked with perfumes and deodorants.
	I don't need my wife to be a model.
	Lord knows I'm not BMI 26-ish and bald, but I have a hard time looking at her from certain angles and being around the stink she accumulates.
	We almost never have sex because it was very difficult to bring myself to participate.
	When we do, I pretend to have an orgasm because I really cannot get there between the smells and the morbid obesity.
	I once had to stop because I could no longer stomach it.
	She cried for hours and was extremely depressed for a couple of weeks.
	She kept getting mad and finding reasons why it was me and not anything she might be doing.
	I've suggested counseling, offered to join her, explained that I'm worried about her health, bought her products for health and hygiene, offered to change my lifestyle to support her.
	I've even tried telling her I need her to make a change of our marriages to work, but she hasn't budged on changing her habits.
	I love my wife.
	She's still my favorite person in the world, but I'm quite simply repulsed by her physically.
	We haven't been intimate for seven months now, and I can tell it's starting to make her very depressed.
	He says, I feel selfish and like a failure as a husband, but I just dread the idea of faking interest and forcing myself to be intimate with her.
	Do you have any advice on how to help my wife make healthier choices?
	Is there a different way I should be thinking about this?
	Thanks for reading my novel.
	Any advice?
	Welcomed.
	Yes.
	Does she have a thyroid issue?
	Go to the doctor.
	She probably has a thyroid issue.
	Okay, how common are thyroid issues?
	I must know.
	I must know.
	I demand to know.
	I don't think they're that common.
	How common are thyroid issues in women that lead to 100-pound weight gain?
	I do not think it is very common.
	I could be wrong.
	I have no doctor.
	I'm a doctor, not a chiropractor, Jim.
	All right.
	Let's see here.
	Hypothyroidism, particularly, sorry, thyroid issues, particularly, this is Grock, so, you know, don't take it as gospel.
	Particularly, hypothyroidism, underactive thyroid, are quite common in women and can contribute to weight gain, but 100-pound gain solely or primarily from thyroid dysfunction is extremely rare.
	About 4% to 5% of the adult population has overt clinical hypothyroidism, with subclinical cases adding another 4 to 10%.
	The most common cause is Hashimoto's thyroiditis, an autoimmune condition.
	Weight gain is a common symptom, 5 to 10 pounds on average.
	More in severe untreated cases, up to 20 to 30 pounds.
	In rare instances, much of this is due to fluid retention rather than fat accumulation caused by slow metabolism and tissue swelling.
	Medical literature consistently describes hypothyroidism-related gain as modest or limited.
	And massive obesity is far more often linked to factors like diet, inactivity, genetics, or other conditions, PCOS, Cushing syndrome.
	In fact, no widespread reports or studies document 100-pound gains primarily from hypothyroidism.
	No widespread reports or studies.
	If significant weight gain beyond 10 to 20 pounds occurs with thyroid symptoms, other causes are usually involved in treating the thyroid alone won't reverse large amounts.
	Because if the weight is just fluid, then you treat it and it's going to be, it's going to be fine.
	So I would say that, I mean, obviously go to doctors and all of that kind of stuff, but it's funny because there's one of these sort of, you know, these sort of call and answer, which is weight gain, thyroid.
	It's almost like this, like, it's the serve, return, input, output, deposit, withdrawal, so, reap.
	Anyway, so when there's weight gain, people are like thyroid.
	And I do not, I do not think that is the case here.
	So I don't obviously know what's going on with this couple, but I can tell you what I think is going on with this couple.
	I'll tell you this.
	I've known, and this is just my observation, not saying it's any kind of true, right?
	But have you ever noticed that, oh, she's 48.
	So have you ever noticed that women who don't have children gain a lot of weight?
	You ever notice that?
	I mean, obviously some blah, blah, blah.
	But I've noticed a number of women that I've known who didn't have children gained a lot of weight to the point where people thought they were pregnant.
	It's just a funny kind of thing.
	Could just be pure coincidence, but the little thing, because they don't mention any kids here.
	No kids.
	There's no kids.
	And if there are no kids, I mean, does he want kids?
	He's young enough to have kids.
	He's 40, so he could probably get a woman who's 30, 35.
	And if you've got a woman who's a wife who's eight years older than you are, whose weight has tripled, that's wild, man.
	Tripled.
	So like 120 to 360, 100 to 300, 150 to 450, that's wild.
	But what's sad is that people have this idea.
	Oh, so someone says, yep, I have no children, gained 40 pounds in two years.
	It is a void filling, right?
	I think it is a void-filling thing.
	If you don't have kids, women just seem to gain a lot of weight.
	And this idea, I love my wife.
	She's still my favorite person in the world.
	No.
	No, you don't.
	You don't.
	You can't love someone who is acting in a way that she could easily change.
	That is repulsive to you.
	If you care about your partner, you have to exercise and eat well.
	I mean, if you're married, you're saying to your partner, you can go nowhere else for sex.
	Nowhere else.
	You are chained to me, sometimes even, you know, in that playful way that couples do on the subway.
	But you are saying you can't go anywhere else.
	Now, for me, a monopoly raises your standards.
	Like you have to be more fit, more healthy, better at whatever you're doing in bed.
	Like you just have to really lock in.
	You have to lock in.
	Right.
	So if you are providing a monopoly service, like parenting, like sexual relations in marriage, then you have to up your game, not lower it.
	Right.
	And so if your wife is gaining, it could be the other way around.
	If your wife is eating so badly and taking such little care of herself that she smells like a zombie farting and has the bad breath of Cerberus' asshole, then that is not a loving action at all.
	It is not a loving action.
	Oh, the woman who gained 40 pounds said it was hell.
	I also knew it had something to do with my hormones.
	It was the first thing I did when I lost the weight, apologized to my husband for ever allowing myself to be like that.
	It's such a selfish thing to stay unhealthy in a way that hurts the other person too.
	Yeah, that's not caring at all.
	And I'm not saying you because you fixed it and all of that.
	But, you know, and I was thinking about this because I looked this up the other day, which is, you know, what happens to your fat cells?
	Because, you know, you get fat.
	Fat cells form very easily and they're like undead, right?
	They're like, they just don't.
	They don't go away.
	They can shrink because, you know, you work out and you exhale it and CO2, the energy and stuff like that.
	So your fat cells will shrink, but it's real easy for them to regrow again.
	And so this is another reason why if a man or a woman has had significant weight in the past, like she was 250 pounds, she got down to 150 pounds, it's still very risky because she can go back up like that because the fat cells are all there and they just don't go anywhere.
	All right.
	We have another caller.
	Let's see if the tech be working.
	So man.
	What is on your mind?
	If you want to unmute, I'm all yours.
	Oh, is that two?
	What is happening?
	What?
	And not have.
	Oh, dear.
	No, that's definitely up.
	All right, let's try that again.
	James, would you mind if you can to call in and just test it?
	Because I don't know what's going on.
	I haven't changed my setup.
	The connectors are all in.
	So I do not know what could be happening.
	I can hear myself if I need to.
	All right.
	But yeah, that's very much, to me, that's very much sort of codependent.
	And but I love her.
	No, you don't.
	No, because you don't harm people that way.
	You don't make their life impossible if you care about them.
	You don't say, well, you can't have sex anywhere else, and I'm now north of 300 pounds.
	I won't take care of my oral hygiene.
	I won't eat well.
	I won't brush my teeth.
	I won't go to the dentist.
	I won't fix whatever's wrong.
	All right.
	So let's try this again.
	James.
	Hello, hello, hello.
	Can you hear me?
	Good, good.
	Okay.
	Sorry, I just wanted to check.
	Unless there's something that you wanted to mention, because again, I'm glad it's not me.
	No, I don't have anything on my mind at the moment.
	Just listening in.
	Although I will say that as far as the weight is concerned, I mean, it's been a while since it's been a relationship, but yeah, I was already actually quite obese by that time, but we did both gain weight.
	Although not to the point that it sounds like this guy, but also not much concern on either side for being so heavy.
	So when you say not much concern, you mean that let's just call her Sally, right?
	So you and your girlfriend both gained weight, but you didn't talk to about it with each other, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	We didn't talk.
	There was a lot we didn't talk about.
	Yeah, definitely.
	That was one of the things we didn't talk about either.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	And why do you think you didn't talk about it?
	Gosh, casting back a lot a ways, but my word.
	Well, I think that for one, it would have, I mean, for me, if I think about, you know, having to deal with weight much later, you know, even now, it has a lot to do with not feeling very like I was worth anything.
	And like the, like what the parental alterism inside of my head for sure, really sabotaging me.
	And to, I'm not saying this is why we didn't, but I think I can think why I didn't is it had a lot to do with if I challenged that, that would destabilize things.
	It would probably, I mean, the relationship ended up anyway, but it would have like spiked the conversation of like all the anxiety and the frustrations and the bad feelings, everything else dealing with that would have really destabilized things, I think.
	Yeah, there's a funny thing that happens in relationships where if you don't participate in my illusions, we don't have a relationship.
	Like you have to participate in the things that aren't true that I believe.
	And this happens on the left.
	It happens on the right too, a little bit more on the left, I think, where it's like, well, you have to believe that Trump called neo-Nazis very fine people, or we can't have a relationship.
	And there's the same thing too.
	Like you have to believe I'm of a healthy weight or you can't criticize my weight or we can't have a relationship.
	And those relationships, the worst thing they can do is last because it just induces a sex-based psychosis or ignorance of reality that just eats away your personality from the inside.
	Yeah.
	And for what I recall, she was hypersensitive about any kind of criticism and would just start crying really, really easily, which, you know, says a lot about what her childhood was like as well.
	Yeah, yeah, for sure.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Well, I appreciate that.
	There are no medications for thyroid available, says someone.
	I don't know whether that's true or not, but I'm sure that you're right.
	All right.
	Thanks, James.
	I appreciate that.
	So it looks like it's working, but just we just had two debts.
	Okay.
	Thanks.
	All right.
	Very good.
	So there's a good account to follow, Avid Series at Avid Series on X I slash O.
	And he writes, at Yale, 92% of grades in women's studies classes are either A or A minus.
	Only 55% in mathematics are.
	You couldn't ask for a better metaphor for what AILs elite American education and culture.
	So enrollment greater than 500, A's and A minuses.
	Only 52% are in economics, 55% in mathematics, 55 in psychology, and so on.
	And it kind of goes all the way up to African American studies, 82% are A's, humanities, 81%, English, 80.79%.
	And regional studies, 82.71% are A's or A minuses.
	Ethnicity, race, and migration, 85.43%.
	Education studies, 85.82.
	And this, I think, is interesting.
	History of science, history of medicine is the highest of them all, 92.37%.
	I'm not quite sure I understand that one.
	I wouldn't have guessed it, but whatever, right?
	So here's some more.
	In engineering and applied sciences, only 57% of marks are A's to A's or A minuses.
	61% applied physics, 61.79%, neuroscience, 62.25%, cognitive science, 73.91.
	Sociology, 81.91.
	Ethics, politics, and economics, 92.06 genders, women's, gender, and sexuality studies.
	So that's interesting.
	So with the exception of, I'm just looking at through here, right?
	So the ones that are low, economics, mathematics, psych, chemistry, molecular biophysics, and biochemistry, philosophy, molecular, cellular, and developmental biology, physics, astronomy, statistics and data science, computer science, biology, American science, blah, blah, blah.
	American studies.
	So if we sort of take the at the top, you know, 10 or 15, it's all male.
	And if you look at the ones that are higher, it tends to be female or non-white.
	So of course, there's this idea that women have a tough time taking criticism and like to be praised.
	Well, here's some example.
	Here's an example.
	Here's an example.
	And so the more subjective the course, the more you can mark people up.
	In physics, you can't mark people up if they just get something fundamentally wrong.
	So if you stuff more and more people into university, it doesn't make them smarter.
	It just means the standards have to collapse.
	And it's really, it's really horrible.
	You know, some 18, 17, 18-year-old science signs up for $100,000 in debt for a degree that's largely useless.
	And oh, it's brutal.
	It's just horrible.
	All right.
	somebody with a question here oh Jimmy Are you Jimmy Ray?
	I got music on my mind tonight.
	Hey, what would you do in this situation?
	I would do the macarade.
	I can kind of guess, but if you have a minute to discuss, my wife's sister is going through a divorce.
	She is toxic.
	She blames everyone else.
	She blames her children, her ex, her health, etc.
	My wife wants to help, but she doesn't, her sister doesn't listen.
	Thoughts?
	Jimmy.
	Well, well, Jimmy, I would cut her off.
	I would say I would have an intervention.
	I'd sit down and say, look, you're going through tough stuff.
	You're going through tough times, a very stressful time.
	I really sympathize with all of that, but it's destructive as a whole.
	And I can't really tell you the truth because if I talk about anything that you're responsible for, you get mad, you get angry, you get hostile, and I don't want to be in a relationship where I can't say what I think.
	I don't think that's healthy.
	And, you know, I don't mind biting my tongue during a particularly stressful time or period.
	But as a whole, I can't be in a relation.
	Like, I think you're wrong about some stuff.
	Not everything.
	Obviously, your husband was bad or wrong, but you still chose him.
	Right.
	So I think that you're wrong about some stuff.
	And if I have to be silenced, if I get attacked for telling you what I think you did wrong, I do not consider that a healthy or productive relationship.
	I also don't want to model that for your children, that you can just get mad at people and they'll just shut up and change their minds.
	So here's what I need you to do.
	I need you to get into some therapy.
	Like right now, you need to get into some therapy.
	Even if you're totally right, I'm totally wrong.
	But the divorce is really stressful.
	You still need to get into some therapy.
	So you get into some therapy and you can talk to your therapist and say, what if people disagree with me?
	Or what if people think that I have made some mistakes?
	And I'm sure that your therapist will say what?
	Your therapist will say, well, you should listen to them and you shouldn't shout them down just because they disagree with you.
	Because if people care about you, you should listen to what they have to say.
	I mean, I listen to what people have to say, even if they hate me.
	But the people who love me, absolutely.
	And so I would put down an ultimatum and say, you got to go to therapy.
	Because this is not healthy.
	It's not healthy for you to be in, quote, relationships where the other person isn't allowed to disagree with you.
	That makes you kind of a narcissist.
	And I'm not saying you are a narcissist, but if that's the only way you can have a relationship, that's narcissistic in my view.
	So yeah, get your ass to therapy, go to therapy for a month or two, and then let's touch base again.
	That would be my approach.
	And if she goes to therapy, see if anything can help.
	Yeah, how much of what they're saying is true?
	Oh, yeah.
	It's funny now because when I read history, like now I know how much they lie about the present.
	When I read history, I just assume it's almost all bullshit or distorted or exaggerated or there's an agenda.
	You know that famous Norman McDonald quote, it says right here in this history book, the good guys have won every single time there's a war.
	What a coincidence.
	So, and of course, now looking at the post-effects of the Second World War has me revisit the whole thing in my mind.
	So, yeah, I would say, look, I'm not going to be in a, quote, relationship where I can't disagree with you.
	I'm just not.
	That's just not healthy.
	I don't want that in my life.
	I don't want that in my wife's life.
	I don't want that in our kids' lives.
	Like, it's just not healthy.
	And again, I have sympathy for the divorce and all of that, but it is not healthy.
	It's not healthy for you to shout down and get angry anytime somebody has any kind of feedback that might be even mildly critical of you.
	That's not healthy.
	We all have to take feedback.
	That's just part of the fucking price of living in a civilized society is take some fucking feedback.
	I may not swear.
	I may.
	I don't know.
	It depends.
	But I would say, yeah, so the price of being in a relationship is you got to get your ass to therapy and you've got to find some way to handle being criticized.
	Because if you can't handle being criticized, you automatically become a manipulative bully.
	That's an absolute iron fact in life.
	People who can't be criticized become manipulative bullies every single time.
	So, yeah, I would, I would, and, and, and if she's like, I'm not going to therapy.
	Okay.
	But then I would say, then I wish you luck.
	I wish you the best.
	But I can't have someone around that I can't be honest with.
	I don't want dishonest relationships.
	I mean, I had to have those when I was younger.
	I don't have to have them as an adult.
	See, if you don't have standards, I mean, I'm not saying you don't have any standards, but in general, if you don't have standards in relationships, you're just going to get exploited.
	You're going to get ripped off.
	You're going to get stolen from.
	You're going to get manipulated.
	You're going to get abused.
	If you don't have standards in relationships, standards are like sunlight crosses, garlic, and holy water to the vampires of narcissists.
	You're not allowed to have standards around a narcissist because standards would be to limit their behavior.
	And narcissists do not limit their behaviors.
	They cannot stand external standards that they are expected to conform to.
	They will not do it.
	They will not accept it.
	They will rage against it.
	Because narcissism is solipsistic, angry, godlike will.
	And putting a standard around a narcissist is trying to limit their choices.
	And because narcissists think that they're basically God and everyone else is an NPC, I mean, it would be like if you were in a video game and you have an NPC player, like there was always one in Skyrim.
	There was always a, oh, there was one in Neverwinter Nights I played many years ago.
	It's NPCs, right?
	Done and done, right?
	And if you say to the NPC, okay, we're going north to explore the castle, and if they were to say, no.
	Like, what?
	Because they just trail along, like, you know, like cans tied to the back of a newly married Volkswagen beetle, right?
	They're just supposed to trail along.
	They're supposed to disagree with you.
	And if you say to, like, we're going north to the, we're going north to explore the castle.
	No.
	And if you try and make me go north to explore that fucking castle, I will cut you.
	I will cut off your internet access and I will drain your bank account.
	Like, that would be weird, right?
	And that would enrage you.
	How dare you?
	You're just a bunch of computer code.
	How dare you?
	What the hell is going on?
	This is incomprehensible.
	You're supposed to follow me to the castle so we can explore it.
	You're supposed to have your own viewpoint.
	And then, see, they're the only players.
	Everyone else is an NPC.
	Or if you have a cow, they're supposed to give you milk.
	And then the cow just kicks you every time you want to get milk.
	I mean, you just turn him into a hamburger.
	I can't get the milk.
	I'll just kill him.
	Just kill the cow.
	Turn it into a hamburger.
	If the horse is too old, he goes to the glue factory.
	Yeah, okay.
	The worst kind of narcissist is the one who preys on your empathy.
	They make you feel responsible for their lives.
	Yeah, I was talking to someone not too, too long ago who was basically saying, well, my parents were bad, but why should I confront them?
	And the reason being that someone has to carry the burden of multi-decade terrible decisions.
	Someone has to carry that burden.
	Someone's responsible.
	And if it's not your parents, then it's you.
	Right?
	If your parents neglected you, either they were woefully deficient, emotionally dead people who had no business having children, or you're boring.
	And they are wonderful people.
	They just weren't interested in you because you're boring like a soap dish.
	You're just boring.
	Oh, look at this black pudding.
	Even the white bits are black.
	Who's at fault?
	It's one of you.
	If your parents ignored you, either they're neglectful jerks or you're really boring.
	Right?
	When my mother got angry at me, either she has a terrible temper or I'm somehow mysteriously provoking.
	Can you imagine me being provoking?
	Unthinkable.
	It is beyond the comprehension.
	It cannot be conceived of.
	No, I'm not annoying.
	I mean, I'm frank.
	I'm honest.
	I guess I'm annoying to people who were used to being bullies and in control.
	But I was not some weirdly enraged, some really, some weirdly enraging child who just made my mother lose her temper.
	No, my mother has a terrible, vicious, nasty, ugly temper that she never got help for.
	Not my fault.
	It's not my fault.
	Wasn't my fault.
	My dad left my mom.
	Wasn't my fault she couldn't get a man to settle down with her.
	Wasn't my fault.
	And none of this stuff was my fault.
	I'm just a kid.
	I have about as much responsibility for my mother's mood as a fucking janitor at a McDonald's has for the actual share price on the other side of the world.
	Wasn't me.
	Now, I'm responsible.
	Now I'm a parent.
	I'm responsible for all that stuff.
	Absolutely.
	But narcissists want to blame you for their bad decisions.
	And if you don't take responsibility for their bad decisions and say, no, no, mom, dad, you ignored me because you chose money.
	You chose work.
	You chose going to parties.
	You chose vacations.
	You chose stupid, useless bullshit.
	After having children.
	After having children, you don't get to make that choice.
	Right?
	I don't have to have a dog, but if I have a dog, I can't just lock it in the basement.
	I mean, I can, but I'm an abuser.
	Right?
	If I have a dog, I gotta make sure it gets fed, make sure it gets fresh water, make sure I walk it every day, make sure I play with it, because dogs are social animals.
	You can't just ignore them.
	So if I get a dog and I ignore the dog, I'm an asshole.
	And if I have children and ignore those children, I'm an asshole.
	Put the responsibility where the responsibility is.
	Because then you're in this weird inverted pyramid where you're taking responsibility for what your parents did and they get off scot-free, which is completely insane.
	All right.
	Tyler.
	Tyler, let us try once more under the breach.
	Yeah, that's why Nick Reiner killed his parents.
	I can only imagine what they did to him.
	I think we're going to find out what they did to him.
	And it's going to shock people and then they're just going to wallpaper over it.
	What will be happening with Corlus?
	Not me, because we got James in, but Tyler, you're muted.
	I can't hear you.
	Yeah, I gotta, you, you use the term cutoff.
	And, you know, I, I dated a narcissist for a long time, and uh, there definitely was an effort to cut me off of friends and family.
	Yeah, because they don't, they don't want you saying, oh, this is what this partner did.
	And then your friends going, she's crazy, man.
	Yeah.
	Oh, I didn't catch on to that until years after because I started having these conversations with people that I shouldn't have had those conversations with because we weren't like close enough yet.
	Does that make sense?
	Say again, your friends, you weren't close enough with your friends?
	No, no, like, so I like, I was having so many issues with her that I started to have having those type of conversations about my relationship with people that I like wasn't close enough to do that with.
	Oh, you're just grabbing someone's lapel on the bus.
	No, no, no, what else?
	Yeah.
	That kind of thing.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So how long did you date her for?
	Seven and a half years, eight years.
	Oh.
	You remember my story.
	We talked about it.
	But when?
	A couple of weeks ago, the How to Fall in Love podcast.
	Oh, okay.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	I sent you an 18-page my life story for writing a book.
	Right, right.
	I don't know if you can see it.
	Sorry, remind me from what age to what age did you date her?
	I got out of the Marine Corps 22 to 29, 30, somewhere in there, right?
	And how did you get out again?
	Oh, it just like completely blew up.
	Like it, it, I couldn't do it anymore.
	Right.
	Right.
	I couldn't do it anymore.
	I mean, the, the, the, the walla moment was one night I was working from home.
	Um, it was busy.
	See, this is my first accounting job.
	And I remember hearing her in the living room talk about she was on the phone with somebody and she was, she was high up in the company, so she had power.
	And she was basically planning to fire somebody because the girl click didn't like this girl.
	And it had nothing to do with her abilities or failures or nothing to do with that.
	And I'm overhearing this and I'm like, at this time, I'm sleeping on the couch in a different room.
	Like, we're not doing good.
	And you're not even getting crazy narcissist sex.
	Oh, there, there was that, but it was.
	Let me love bomb you.
	Oh, she was doing a lot of it.
	It's like that hole in the desert that swallows up guys in Star Wars.
	Vagina dentata.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So you start off with the crazy narcissist sex and then you don't even get that, right?
	Well, I was, I was, I got that for a long time, but I cut her off at that point because this, this is seven and a half years into the relationship.
	It was bad.
	And I'll sleep in a different room and I was working.
	So go back to the story.
	I was getting some of it, but I was very sparingly.
	I knew the game at that point.
	So I'm overhearing this and I'm just in shock and awe.
	Later that night, she comes into the room and she makes fun of me for something that, like, if you knew my personal story, like she literally jabbed a dagger in my heart, basically.
	Oh, yeah, because you're vulnerable with people and good people work around your vulnerabilities and bad people are like, oh, is that really where it hurts?
	Right.
	Yeah, that's exactly what she did.
	And I remember like, I couldn't sleep that night.
	I'm like, I'm literally living with a predator.
	Right.
	Right.
	That's very sad.
	But I'm glad you're out.
	And how old are you now?
	32.
	32.
	Any luck in the dating life since?
	No, I mean, I told you I was a whistleblower for two years.
	So I've been single for a while.
	I did date a girl, went down to Pennsylvania, dated her a couple times, but I didn't want to go any further with it.
	Pennsylvania, isn't that where Dracula's from?
	Just kidding.
	Just kidding.
	All right.
	Okay, well, listen, I wish you the best of luck.
	Did you want to, if people, women, I assume you want women, if a woman wants to date you, would you accept an email through me?
	Of course, of course.
	Okay, what's your name?
	First name.
	Tyler.
	Tyler.
	Okay, so Tyler.
	So if ladies, if you're interested in Tyler the whistleblower, because you know how to call Tyler, you just put your lips together and blow.
	But so Tyler the whistleblower, you can send me an email, support at freedomain.com and say, I'm interested in Tyler or something to do with Tyler.
	And we will pass it along.
	Not what I intended for.
	I just wanted you to elaborate on the isolation tactic of narcissists.
	Okay, so one last thing, just, and I will, but looking back, what were the clues at the beginning for people who want to for people who want to avoid narcissist?
	The love bombing is very, very common.
	The roller coaster ride of like, you know, one day you're like the king, the best person in the world.
	And then there's the very, you know, hard low and that jarring.
	It takes a certain person to be able to take it and have patience to deal with it.
	But if the love bombing is strong enough, it keeps you hooked.
	And I would say that that covers most of it, I would say.
	Okay.
	Okay, got it.
	Yeah.
	So the isolation stuff, the narcissist wants to be your only frame of reference.
	And so they want to cut you off from any outside frame of reference that can expose their predation.
	So they will generally cut you off from community.
	They will cut you off from churches.
	They will cut you off from philosophy.
	They will cut you off from anybody who might interfere with their exploitation.
	So it's kind of like if the lion is feasting on the dead zebra, it's going to chase and kick away all of the jackals, so to speak.
	Sorry, that's not the best analogy, but you understand what I'm saying, right?
	Yeah.
	It's funny you bring that up because we actually listened to your show a few times.
	And then once you started hitting certain things, she hated you.
	Like she was like, no.
	This guy's a monster.
	Yeah, that's the old projection, right?
	Confession through projection, right?
	So yeah, for sure, that is a brutal thing to experience.
	So they want to just prey upon you themselves.
	So they want to keep the healthy people away from you.
	And they're usually quite successful because healthy people don't want to spend much time around narcissists because it's dangerous and pointless.
	And we kind of have their number.
	And the other thing, too, is that it's really tough.
	You know, you're in the military.
	You know how tough an extraction in enemy territory can be.
	So getting people out of narcissistic relationships is really, really dangerous.
	Trust me, I'm aware of this one in great detail as a whole.
	But getting people, so what are the risks?
	If people come, like when you were really embedded in this narcissistic relationship, what was the danger of that?
	She was a very dangerous person.
	Right.
	Right.
	Yeah, they find out and then They'll try and mess up your life.
	Whoever's trying to help you, it's really, it can be really risky, right?
	Yes.
	They are very skilled in the art of character assassination, reputation.
	They're very good.
	It's using the tongue and spewing poison with it.
	Yeah, I mean, the deplatforming had a lot to do with that.
	It was blowback for helping people as a whole, right?
	So when I was growing up, one of the things that turned me against society was you never get abused just in isolation.
	You get abused in a society.
	And if people don't help the victims of child abuse and nobody steps in, then it's society as a whole you hate.
	It's complicit, right?
	And tacitly.
	Yeah.
	So everybody's complicit.
	And that is really, really a huge problem.
	So what I wanted to do was to say to people, look, you're not alone.
	There are people who are going to really sympathize, who are going to take your side, who are going to stand with you against your abuse and who are going to help get you to therapy.
	And I've even paid for a lot of people who listen to the show to go to therapy if they were broke.
	So I really, really want to help people by standing up with them because I know, I know what it would have meant for me if somebody had stood up.
	And nobody did.
	Nobody did.
	And so that I recognized that it wasn't, my mother was not the primary abuser.
	My mother was not the primary abuser.
	The primary abuser was society as a whole because my mother was better at understanding society than I was because my mother knew that nobody was going to do anything.
	She could beat the crap out of me and my brother and she could do it in full audio hearing of like 50 to 100 people in the building we were in, like paper-thin walls and apartment buildings.
	We weren't isolated.
	It was right in the middle of the city, right in the middle of the city.
	Right.
	And she also knew that she could send us to my father's relatives.
	She could send us there for the whole summer.
	She could send us out to my dad for the whole summer, which she did twice.
	I could go anywhere.
	And she was safe, man.
	She could manipulate her way out of.
	Well, no, she didn't have to manipulate her way out of anything.
	She could send me to Ireland for the whole fucking summer, knowing, knowing for a simple, absolute, Godforsaken fact that not one of those people was going to say, oh, you know, we've met your mom a bunch of times.
	You know, we were at the wedding.
	We've listened to what your dad has had to say.
	How are things going over there?
	And weren't you not eating very well?
	No, I was not eating very well.
	Yeah, for sure.
	I mean, so she knew that I could go to school every day.
	Every day I could go to school.
	Not one single teacher, not one single friend, not one single friend's parents was ever going to ask one simple question.
	How are you doing?
	What's going on?
	You're hungry.
	You're tired.
	You're hollow-eyed.
	You got no new clothes.
	Your clothes have holes in them.
	You smell, right?
	She could have me walk back in front.
	She could have me walk back and forth in front of the hospital, bleeding from my eyes and ears, and everyone was going to ignore me.
	Like my mom was brilliant at understanding society.
	I didn't have the least clue about society, but it's true.
	I mean, I'm sure similar things have happened.
	I appreciate that.
	I'm sure similar things have happened to everyone.
	And this was really humbling for me.
	I kind of got this in my late 20s, in particular my early 30s, that my mom was society.
	She understood society.
	They all sided with her.
	They all colluded with her.
	And she understood that no one was going to lift a fucking finger.
	Nobody was going to ask.
	Nobody was going to help.
	Nobody even was going to make an anonymous phone call to the police.
	No one in three different countries, thousands and thousands of people who heard all of this stuff.
	Not one person was going to lift up the phone, make one anonymous call and say, hey, I think I hear beatings going on next door.
	Like, come do something.
	She knew.
	My mother also knew that if I ever went public, what was going to happen?
	Right.
	That society was going to attack me.
	Yeah.
	Society was going to attack me and completely step over the abusive parent.
	So my mother was perfectly attuned to society.
	And I was naive and utterly ignorant.
	My mom had society's number and knew exactly what was going on.
	She didn't even have to manipulate that.
	And sorry to push back on what you said, but it wasn't like people called the cops and then she sweet talked her way out of it.
	Nobody called the cops.
	Right.
	None of the teachers.
	I was in public school.
	I was in private school.
	I was in three different countries.
	I was in hundreds and hundreds of teachers.
	I was in Boy Scouts.
	None of the Boy Scout leaders said anything.
	None of the priests said anything.
	So nobody, nobody.
	Thousands and thousands of people I was exposed to over the course of my childhood and late teens, nothing.
	Not one single thing.
	My mother could be institutionalized and the people at the institution never asked anything.
	How are you doing?
	How are you living?
	We see you don't have a father.
	Do you have family around?
	How are you paying the bills?
	Right.
	They don't.
	Nobody, even the professionals paid to who took my mother in because she lost her mind didn't ask.
	So this is why, you know, that is society.
	That is society.
	Sorry?
	Can I ask you a question?
	How involved was the church in your family life?
	Well, my mother was not religious, but I had, I mean, my aunts were all very religious.
	We went to church all the time when I was there.
	Okay.
	The thing that scares me the most, I don't want to cut you off, but the fact that trauma is compounding when you look generationally, if it doesn't get addressed, it stacks on.
	So like all the work that you had to put into, you know, healing yourself, journaling, going to therapy, and all the things that you did in your 20s and your teens and even your 30s, the things that you've done for me, thank you.
	If you don't do that monumental work, it compounds.
	So, you know, the evil that was done onto you, if you have children, generally those children will experience that and some.
	And that's, and you do talk about how your mother was probably a victim of World War II or something.
	For sure.
	So my mother's mind was forged in the unimaginable barbarity, child abuse, and cruelty of the Second World War.
	And so that war taught her to understand society and to understand evil in a way that I struggled with for decades.
	My mother just got it.
	She knew that she could do anything and nobody would help.
	She knew.
	Yeah.
	She knew.
	And she knew it didn't matter where I went.
	It didn't matter who I talked to.
	She didn't lock me in the basement to hide the abuse.
	I was free to roam.
	I went all over the city.
	I went all over the neighborhood.
	Had dozens of friends.
	Played everywhere.
	Went to church.
	Went to Boy Scouts.
	Went to school.
	Went to relatives.
	Flew all over the world.
	Didn't matter.
	Didn't matter.
	The zone of silence.
	The zone of absolute inattention, no matter how messed up I was.
	You know, I had a friend of mine when I was in junior high school.
	I used to go to his house every day after school.
	We hung out a lot and it was fun.
	We played cards and maybe some video games from time to time and all of that.
	And I remember I used to go to his chalkboard and I used to draw zombie heads.
	You know, chalkboard and I drew eyeballs hanging out and all of that, right?
	His father was a doctor.
	Never asked me anything.
	Hey, I noticed that you're drawing all these zombie heads.
	Like morbid stuff.
	Really morbid, you know, stuff, right?
	There was a guy in my junior high school carried a doll's leg around with blood on it.
	Like he could put red nail polish on it or whatever it was, right?
	Right.
	Carried a doll's leg in his pocket with blood on it.
	That's obviously a cry for help.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I said, man, how you doing?
	It's just, I mean, just so everybody knows, like, this is, this is, and I was like, and I said, I remember saying to myself as a kid, damn, if I ever get any kind of prominence, fuck, this cannot continue.
	Yeah.
	This cannot continue.
	Fuck the world.
	You know, because people doom scroll and they say, oh, my gosh, the death of the West, the death of the West.
	It's like, what the fuck has it done to earn its survival?
	If this is the West, well, I mean, I get that what's replacing it is going to be worse and blah, blah, blah, but holy crap.
	There's still fighters.
	Yeah.
	You're one of them.
	This woman says my mom would literally call the cops and hand me the phone and laugh in my face, daring me to tell them.
	Yeah.
	Jesus.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	So it's wild, right?
	Can you imagine you kidnap a kid and you just let him roam?
	Go anywhere.
	And my mother, my mother never said to me, don't tell.
	Never once did she say to me, you better not tell.
	That's how confident she was.
	Yeah.
	It's amazing.
	My mom gave us the church, like, you know, keep up appearances in church.
	That was.
	Yeah, like don't act up in church or whatever it is.
	But did your mother ever say, don't tell anyone about what I'm doing?
	No, I don't think so.
	She didn't need to.
	No.
	Because she knew no one was going to give a shit.
	No.
	I mean, my mother was abused horribly as well.
	Well, so then she should know exactly how bad it is, right?
	I was abused.
	And so that's why.
	And this is so the people who it's funny because I have an easier time talking about the evils of what's done to children with victims of child abuse than other people.
	Because the victims of child abuse are like, oh, yeah, no, I know it's terrible, blah, blah, blah.
	But the people who weren't, do you know why they have such a hellish time hearing about this?
	It shatters their worldview of how things work and security.
	It shatters their worldview of themselves.
	See, it's like the COVID shit, right?
	So you go after Bob.
	Bob had a nice childhood.
	Bob had a good family and all of that.
	And you go up to Bob and you start talking about this stuff.
	Do you know what Bob starts to think of?
	I don't know.
	I'm listening.
	Damn.
	All those kids I knew.
	All those kids I blamed.
	All those kids I thought were weird.
	All those kids I made fun of for being smelly.
	They were fucking victims.
	I'm an asshole.
	Yeah.
	I'm an asshole.
	So the non-victims find it even more traumatic because they have colluded.
	Because they feel guilty.
	Because they feel guilty.
	Because the honest thing is, my mother didn't abuse me except with your permission.
	Your permission was necessary and required for my mother to abuse me.
	That you are the cause in many ways of the abuse.
	In that if you had asked questions, she wouldn't have abused me.
	The causality for abuse is social, not individual.
	Right.
	You know, it's funny you bring up that social thing.
	I've been thinking a lot lately about how naturally humans, if you don't see yourself in somebody, we automatically see them as outsiders.
	Does that make sense?
	I wouldn't say that I fully understand it.
	I think most of what I would understand might be projections.
	So tell me more about what you mean.
	Like, if you meet somebody with personality, like their personality is very different than you.
	They don't fit into a box, quite frankly.
	And you guys know what a box is.
	That you, the lower level of, I was watching a bit on it, the lower level of analysis and intelligence is you disregard that person as an outsider, as not dangerous, but like, I don't know if I want to get involved in that because it doesn't quite make sense to me and it's not right.
	No, no, I mean, I agree with you to some degree, but I think it goes back to what you said about your girlfriend, that the narcissists are very dangerous people and people don't want to take on the risk.
	Right.
	Right.
	They don't want to take on the risk.
	And okay, so that's fine.
	So people didn't want to confront my mother because my mother would get really angry and might try and wreck their life.
	I probably would, right?
	Right.
	Okay, but an anonymous phone call solves that problem.
	And okay, so then people say, well, we don't want to take on bad people.
	We don't want to take on abusers because the abusers could be dangerous and could harm us.
	It's like, okay, fine.
	Then don't tell me that society is compassionate.
	That's all.
	That's why I never believed this welfare state shit or this foreign aid shit.
	It's all bullshit.
	Because, I mean, it's just the Rob Reiner thing.
	Like, deal with your own fucking household.
	Help your own household.
	Right, right, right.
	And if you can't help your own household, don't tell me what's good for the world as a whole.
	But I mean, even let's say an anonymous phone call did go through, the amount of things that have to go right to, like, it's not going to fix all your problems.
	No, but it would have done something because at least I would have known that somebody cared, somebody gave a shit.
	Right, right, right.
	Right?
	I mean, for all I know, people were masturbating to it, the violence.
	I don't know, but it's fucking weird.
	I was actually just thinking about this the other day.
	What if in school, you have a problem child instead of the school like?
	A lot of times the, like two people will get into a fight and they'll they'll blame both of them and they're both get in trouble.
	What if instead the, the school started trying to interject into the home and like, how can we help the mother?
	What's the situation at home?
	Here's resources for you, here's podcasts here is, would that help in any way?
	I don't know what.
	I'm not sure what you're asking.
	I mean something.
	Could I mean when you say, could something help in any way?
	That's a very open-ended question right, i'm saying, instead of, instead of um viewing the kid and a kid that's acting out in school as a problem, the school starts to like, now the school knows where to direct resources towards that home.
	But why something?
	Okay, so let's let's, let's play this in now.
	So let's say, you are uh, Bobby the teacher, right and and some, you suspect some kid is is being abused okay, so so you you, what do you do?
	You call CPS, you call like what what?
	It would have to be something completely new, like no in the system, that is right.
	CPS was called on my mother multiple times.
	Nothing ever happens.
	Somebody's saying here, I called CPS on my brother.
	Nothing happened.
	Even CPS doesn't help.
	I mean, my mother called the cops on me and they just gave me a lecture on um, a generation gap, and you got to work to try and understand your mother.
	They didn't ask.
	They didn't ask, oh hey uh, you know what's going on?
	And they didn't.
	They just gave me a lecture like, yeah, what?
	What's the plus for people to get involved in this stuff?
	I mean and of course people see what happened to me when I got involved in this stuff, and these are adults I said to adults, hey man, you don't have to spend time with relentlessly abusive people, even if they are parents.
	Right, he's a cult leader.
	He's like the Wikipedia page, the cancellations.
	So I mean, I do it just because actually I have no answer for that.
	No, I I do it because to provide what you you were denied is the most noble thing you can do, and to provide sympathy for the victims of child abuse, when everybody me over by ignoring it when I was a kid, is the good.
	It's the good that you can do to to remember what you desperately needed and try to provide it for others is a very healthy and helpful thing to do, and I mean the price has been prodigious, right.
	I mean the price has been enormous and so I, I mean so, I think, but I can kind of get why people didn't do it.
	But again, the anonymous call.
	The anonymous call would have been a shot across the bars to at least say you're on the list.
	And, of course the the the, the police, who come.
	If they come, if they take the kid aside and they say, listen, we're here to help like, tell us what's going on.
	Does she hit you?
	Uh, please don't lie to the cops.
	Does she hit you?
	Does she scream at you?
	Do you have enough food?
	Do you get health care?
	Blah blah, blah.
	Right, but nobody asked that, because I mean, it's all government stuff, right?
	It's another reason why I was incredibly skeptical of the, The government.
	It's like the government in three different fucking countries was responsible for my safety and security.
	Right.
	I mean, my mother almost killed me one time.
	She choked the shit out of me.
	Okay, don't laugh about that, bro.
	Come on.
	Don't push this trauma onto others by laughing about it.
	I'm really sorry.
	What happened?
	I'm sorry.
	But yeah, I feel your sentiment.
	What happened?
	She choked the crap out of me.
	She jumped on top of me and I was little at the time.
	She put both her knees on my shoulders and she just choked me.
	And I thought I was going to die.
	How old were you?
	It was before I got put into foster care.
	So I must have been like five, six.
	My mother was hit by an ambulance when I was four.
	So she had a traumatic brain injury from that point on.
	Oh, do you think that that had something to do with her violence?
	Because it can, right?
	Oh, yeah.
	I don't know who my mother was before the accident.
	I was too young now.
	So that may be not evil, but damage.
	Yeah, there's evil too.
	Because I know my mother, you know, went through some stuff.
	Yeah, it's more evil if she doesn't do it in public, right?
	Right.
	If she gets away with it, right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, my mother was super nice to me in public.
	Super nice.
	So she knew.
	Yeah.
	But she knew, and I don't mean to repeat it, but it's just really, really important for people to understand because I'm not alone in this.
	But she knew that she was perfectly safe to do what she did.
	And I've only told people half of what she did.
	Right.
	She's perfectly, she was perfectly safe to do what she did, knowing no matter where I went in this world, and I wasn't stuck in some tiny village in the middle of nowhere.
	I went all over the world.
	No matter where I went in the world, no matter who I talked to, no matter how many thousands of people I interacted with, what she did, she was perfectly safe and perfectly secure.
	She was at zero risk whatsoever.
	Even with the pawning you off onto different people?
	Absolutely.
	I could go and spend the summer with my aunts in Ireland.
	I could go and spend time with my father.
	I could go and spend the summer with a marine biologist in Newfoundland.
	I could go and join church groups.
	I could go and be in the choir.
	I could be in Boy Scouts.
	I could go and be on sports teams.
	I could go be a tennis player.
	I could go to people's houses.
	I could go anywhere and do anything.
	And nobody would ask a fucking thing.
	And she was perfectly safe.
	She was as safe from the predators of consequences as a man in a penthouse suite at the Ritz.
	Perfectly safe.
	She had no anxieties, no fears whatsoever that anybody was ever going to ask me.
	So she understood that they're all abusers.
	Because if the abuse is only possible because you never ask or notice, and I wasn't some big faker, right?
	I wasn't like in a yacht.
	I wasn't, you know, in the latest clothes.
	I was hungry.
	I was, yeah.
	I had terrible clothing.
	I had no haircut.
	I shouldn't mean to laugh, but my mother once cut my bangs as a kid with pinking shoes.
	I looked like a fucking Italian awning over a deli.
	Right.
	So without a doubt, I had to have three jobs starting at the age of 12 and 13 for food.
	The first time I worked in a restaurant, it was paradise.
	I got meals.
	Yeah.
	And when I went to school in England, you know, it's funny.
	Sorry, just like, when I went to school in England, we had to have dinner money, lunch money, called dinner in England.
	I remember my brother misspelled it.
	Don't forget diner money, he said right above.
	And at least half the time, there was no money in there was no breakfast.
	Sorry, there was very little breakfast and there was no money for lunch and there was no lunch.
	I had no packed lunch or anything, right?
	So what I'd have to do is I have to go to school at least half the time and you get this thick rubber band and they're supposed to charge your parents later.
	And you get this thick rubber band that says you have no money and you have to get a free lunch, right?
	And the fact that half the time I was coming to school with no food and no capacity to buy food.
	And they knew this because I had to go in.
	I had to say, I've got no money for food.
	They give me this big thick rubber band to put on my arm that says, don't charge them for lunch.
	Right.
	And so they literally knew half the time I had no food.
	They literally put the fucking rubber band on my arm and didn't ever ask.
	Hey, quick question.
	Why don't you have any food or any money?
	Like, this is, it was not hidden.
	It's completely and totally obvious.
	And so the state won't protect you.
	And society in general is a piece of absolute fucking moral filth that abusers rely on to do their shitty work.
	And the abusers are absolutely confident and they're totally right to be confident.
	The abusers are absolutely confident.
	As long as they're not beating the shit out of you right in front of people, they're fine.
	They're totally fine.
	No blowback, no consequences.
	They don't need to keep you home.
	You can go anywhere.
	You can do anything.
	Nobody's going to ever ask.
	Nobody's going to ever show any curiosity.
	Nobody's going to lift a fucking finger to help you.
	Well, I mean, I want to push back on that a little bit.
	We did live in different times.
	So when I got into the system at seven, there was state resources.
	Like I was mandatory had to have a therapist.
	And how did you, hang on, how did you end up getting into the foster care?
	My mother surrendered her rights to me.
	Okay.
	So that's not society doing fuck all.
	That's your mother making it happen.
	I mean, what if your mother hadn't done that?
	Would society like, well, this kid's in trouble.
	Boy, we got to go in and help him.
	Well, I actually, funny enough, my brother, one time, a few years ago, we were driving.
	We were working on a house that he bought.
	And he said something along the lines of, you know, what if I didn't go into foster care?
	And I'm like, I told, I said my brother's name and I said, not for nothing.
	I got lucky.
	Like, you got to go.
	So let's not talk about society.
	That's not society.
	That's your mom handing you over saying, I'm done.
	Yeah.
	So that's not society.
	And here's the other thing.
	You say you and I arose in different times.
	I'm sure we did.
	But I'm not talking about when I was a kid, bro.
	Yeah.
	Well, I was like, why do I say that?
	Because society still beats you up as an adult.
	Yeah, because for 20 years, I've been helping victims of horrendous child abuse.
	Yeah.
	And go look at my Wikipedia page.
	That shit is still going on.
	The abusers are still in charge.
	The abusers still run everything.
	And you defy them at your peril.
	Go read any media article on me, anything.
	I'm still trying to help the victims of child abuse and paying the price.
	Because whatever happens in the future, this shit cannot continue.
	I don't care if it takes 500 years.
	I don't care if we've got to go to the fucking worst place on the planet.
	There's like eight people left.
	This shit can't continue.
	This fucking society is a dung heap of evil.
	With AI, do you think that we really got 100 more years of this?
	I doubt it.
	I don't care.
	I don't know and I don't care.
	This shit can't continue.
	I don't care if we get replaced by something even worse and then people learn.
	This shit can't continue.
	Like the life that I had as a child, the life that countless people I've talked to had as children and a society that does fucking nothing to help and in fact colludes.
	That shit's got to end.
	That shit's got to go.
	Yeah.
	And here's the thing too.
	Like now, so when I first started talking about the voluntary family back in 2005, 2006, like 20 years ago.
	Defooing.
	Yeah, defooing.
	And I.
	I mean, I was attacked from every conceivable angle, right?
	Yeah.
	Now the ideas have been netted a little bit more into society and you see articles about this all the time, right?
	Anybody circling back?
	No, no one will ever say sorry to you.
	Nobody will ever say sorry to me.
	Nobody.
	Nobody will ever say, ooh, sorry we put you through all of that.
	That was kind of unfair and unjust.
	You were kind of in the right.
	And here's the thing that's wild too.
	Here's the thing that's wild too.
	So let's say you've got a society that just fucking hates gingers, right?
	They just red-headed people.
	They just treat them like shit.
	Society says, oh, yeah, gingers are blah, blah, blah.
	They're evil.
	They're open about it, right?
	The weird thing about the world that we live in, the truly psychotic thing about the world that we live in, is that what do people say about children?
	What do you mean, what do people say about it?
	People treat children like shit in our society.
	But what do they say about children?
	Speak great about them, I guess.
	Yeah.
	They are our future.
	Children are wonderful.
	I'd do anything for my kids.
	That's the truly psychotic thing.
	Is that at least if there was some virulent prejudice, they'd say, oh, yeah, those gingers, they're assholes.
	Ah, we hate them, blah, blah, blah.
	Right.
	But that's the weirdest thing.
	That's the weirdest thing to me is that, oh, children are everything.
	We do anything for our children.
	Blah, blah, blah.
	I believe our children are the future.
	Right.
	And this is from a woman who was abusing her own child in Houston.
	Anyway, so that's the weird thing is that everyone says how important children are, how precious children are, how we love children, how we worship children, how children are the future.
	We do anything for our children, except make one anonymous phone call when we hear them getting the bit shit beaten out of them.
	Yeah, but I mean, some of this has to do with economics, too.
	Okay.
	One anonymous phone call?
	How does that fuck up someone's economics?
	No, not the phone call, but, you know, people, you know, some people are selfish and they don't care about other people.
	Okay, you got to say things that aren't blindingly obvious.
	Yes, some people are selfish.
	So what?
	You talk economics.
	What do you mean?
	Once a lot of economic problems get solved, I think matters of the heart will become the number one priority for mankind.
	What are you talking about?
	What I'm saying, we have about 10,000 times more money in society than we had 200 years ago.
	Well, it's not about money, it's about time.
	Okay, I thought you said it was economics.
	Economics.
	I know it's economics, but it's not about money.
	Economics all comes down to time.
	You could have more money.
	What time and effort is what matters, right?
	Human capital and why I wanted to say that.
	So what you're saying is that the children of wealthy parents, like, I don't know, Rob Briner's kids, they're never abused because people have a lot of time and money.
	No, that's not what I'm saying.
	What I'm saying is when if you, if we had a world where people weren't working, let's say they're working 15 hours a week and they're able to be way more involved in the community.
	Okay, so are you saying that when my mom got welfare, she became a better mother?
	Well, apparently not.
	Okay, do you think that people who are on welfare are better mothers?
	Statistically, no.
	Okay, so then it's not about money because they have all the time and they have massive amounts of resources compared to their forefathers or foremothers, I guess, in that case.
	Well, I mean, you have a spectrum of personalities and the people that have the abilities and skills to deal with these situations and actually heal groups and groups of people because everything's a numbers game at the end of the day.
	If those people are freed up.
	Sorry, which people are we talking about now?
	People with the skills and abilities to deal with trauma and heal families and heal communities and be a resource.
	We throw hundreds of billions of dollars a year into the mental health industry.
	There are school counselors everywhere.
	There's no more money that we could reasonably throw into these issues.
	It's not a matter of money.
	That's why I didn't say money.
	It's not a matter of time.
	It's not a matter of time.
	You think so, huh?
	Society's current structure cannot survive the liberation of children.
	That's all it's about.
	Statism requires.
	Like, you know, like in Australia, right?
	This evil pair, the father and son, I think, shot up the beach in Bondi, right?
	15, 16 people murdered.
	Yeah.
	So now the government is like, well, the problem is far-right extremism, and we are going to take away more guns, even though there was a police station three minutes away that did nothing for a long time.
	So, I mean, what incentive does the government have to prevent mass shootings if they gain more power from mass shootings?
	They have no incentive at all.
	Zero.
	Yeah.
	I mean, governments love more government.
	So our society relies upon the abuse of children and cannot survive the liberation of children.
	Because if you liberate children, the entire power structure of society completely changes, as I've sort of talked about before.
	Statism relies upon child abuse.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I do know that.
	So it's not a matter of if we have more time or more money.
	We need a system that doesn't require children to be broken early in order to prop up the state and to prop up religion and to prop up abusive parents.
	I mean, if you have a system that runs directly on slavery, do you teach the children of slaves self-confidence in their worth and dignity as human beings?
	No.
	No, you teach them that they're pieces of shit who deserve to be owned.
	That way, slavery is a whole lot cheaper.
	Yeah.
	So everybody, when I was a kid, when you were a kid, just about everybody participated in maintaining this absolutely shitty system that relies upon the abuse and destruction of children.
	So the abusive parents are a proxy for the state, which is why the state doesn't solve these things.
	Right.
	Now, when I was being attacked for many years, really viciously, how many mental health professionals stood up and said, but he's got a point.
	Very few, if any.
	Zero!
	Zero.
	How many people, when I was talking to women about they can get away from abusive fathers if they want, like go talk to them if it's safe and so on, right?
	So how many feminists said, oh, no, he's helping abused women escape the patriarchy?
	Zero.
	Zero!
	So why wouldn't anyone say anything about what I was doing?
	Because they're either abusers or enablers.
	Because the power brokers don't want the assembly line of broken hearts to stop.
	Which is why people who talk about morals in society outside of obviously friends and family and the select group that we have here, this is why when people talk about good and bad, right and wrong, have no credibility to me at all.
	Like to go back to sort of the beginning of the show when I was talking about, oh, I got something wrong about Charlie Cook and what he said about racists, right?
	So all the people are like, you're wrong, bro.
	You're this, you're that.
	It's like, I absolutely know for sure.
	I know for an absolute fucking fact that these cluster of fracks have had at least half a dozen to a dozen victims of rampant child abuse in their environment and have done nothing.
	Yeah.
	And then, oh, this guy on the internet is wrong.
	I'm going to be a moral hero and a crusader.
	It's all bullshit.
	Yeah.
	They don't care.
	Everyone, you meet people in the world outside of very, very few people.
	You meet 99.999% of people in the world.
	And they'll tell you their moral opinions.
	And they'll tell you their ideological goals.
	And they'll tell you what's important for the planet and the world and the foreigners and global warming and all sorts of bullshit.
	When I know for a fact there's been 12 to 15 to 20 abused children in their environment and they've done nothing.
	Not even asked one simple fucking question.
	I know that for a fact.
	So when people come and moralize at me, it's bullshit.
	It's embarrassing to try to have moral discussions in the world.
	People are such fucking liars and hypocrites.
	Cowards.
	Cowards.
	Without even the honesty to say, yeah, I don't really have any particular right to talk about morals, man.
	They've been like, my kids brought like three kids home.
	They're clearly not doing well.
	And I did fuck all.
	I don't want to get involved.
	It's like, okay, fine.
	Then don't tell me that you care about starving kids in Asia.
	Don't tell me that you care about global warming.
	Don't tell me that you care about racial inequality.
	You don't care.
	It's bullshit.
	People just want to waffle on.
	You know how you do good in the world?
	You ask a kid who's wounded, how you doing?
	Yeah.
	How are you doing?
	How many private emails did I get from encrypted accounts saying, you're right, I can't come forward.
	I sympathize with what you're doing.
	Good for you.
	Zero!
	How long does it take to take to create an anonymous one-time throwaway email and write a letter of support?
	Five fucking minutes.
	Five minutes.
	Can't be traced.
	Nobody's going to get in trouble.
	And that's an anonymous phone call.
	I mean, there are people that have supported you along the way, though.
	I mean.
	Okay, so you have to not say blindingly obvious things.
	What did I say about the numbers?
	But what do you mean about the numbers?
	I said, except for a small group.
	Okay.
	So when I say you had the biggest group and then you say, well, not everyone, it's like, I know, I just said that.
	I mean, I don't think that's a good idea.
	You just put the brakes on what I'm doing because it's making you anxious.
	No, I just, you were very big and you helped a lot of people.
	Okay, I know that you probably changed the course of the West, to be honest.
	Well, I certainly did everything I could.
	You know, it's.
	You keep saying zero, and I just don't want you to.
	No, no.
	Equipment.
	What do you mean I keep saying that?
	You keep taking zero.
	Okay, what did I say?
	What did I say?
	Hang on.
	What did I say zero referred to?
	Everybody except for a small group.
	No.
	The zero was the number of anonymous emails I got from people supporting me saying, look, I'm a mental health professional.
	I can't come out and support you, but you're right.
	Right, right, right.
	Because I know for a simple fact that this is a standard in mental health, that you don't have to spend time with abusive parents.
	I know that this is a standard, so I wasn't inventing something out of whole cloth.
	I had a therapist who told me this.
	I've talked to other people in the mental health profession who know this, and nobody came forward, and nobody sent me any anonymous emails saying, I'm a mental health professional.
	You're kind of in the right.
	I can't come out.
	I'm sorry.
	But like, that would have been nice, right?
	So when I said zero, I didn't mean nobody in the world supports me ever.
	I mean, there are people here and we're talking.
	What I'm saying is that I did not get any anonymous emails from people who were experts saying you're in the right.
	In fact, you got the opposite.
	So the reality is that people don't act to protect children.
	And when someone does finally act to protect children, they get endlessly attacked with virtually no defense.
	Right.
	So when I first got, you know, these, these, these terrible articles and blah, blah, blah, I was like, you know what?
	That's, I get that.
	You know, they're reporters, right?
	And so I checked the newspapers, right?
	So, oh, he's a terrible guy.
	He's a cult leader or whatever, right?
	And I went to check The letters section, right?
	And what, I mean, what was I looking for?
	Someone to give you support.
	Yeah, I was looking for someone to say, oh, yeah, you know, I, here's, here's where, you know, Steph is got a point, blah, blah, blah, right?
	And, and even somebody intellectually honest would say, you know, maybe I don't agree with this, but this, this, this, um, I do support.
	And yeah, I mean, he's saying you don't have to spend time with relentlessly abusive people.
	And he's saying you should go to therapy.
	And he says you should be honest if it's physically safe for you to do so with abusive parents.
	You should go and have a conversation.
	What am I saying?
	I'm saying stop lying to your parents.
	Go be honest with them if you have issues.
	Yeah.
	Get to a therapist.
	Let the therapist take over the process because separating from a family of origin is a big, tough process.
	So get to a therapist.
	There's nothing cult-like about that, obviously, right?
	I'm saying be honest.
	I'm not charging anyone for that feedback.
	I'm saying get a therapist.
	And I'm saying go talk to your parents.
	There's zero, like that's not complicated.
	There's zero cult-like aspect of that, right?
	Right.
	So I thought, gee, maybe an expert on cults will say, no, no, no, like, I don't agree with the guy about this, but that's not cult behavior.
	Right.
	Right now, now, maybe people did write this kind of stuff in and it wasn't published, in which case, then they should write to me.
	Right.
	So I just, since the topic came up, right?
	And I appreciate you bringing it up.
	And I appreciate your pushback as well.
	So that's, I really, I really do appreciate that.
	Can I bring it full circle?
	Please do.
	So I did finally confront my mother if you read my document that I sent you.
	And I asked her, can you just write me a letter and take some accountability for some of the things that you've done?
	And she never wrote me.
	So I guess we're both zero.
	See, don't laugh again.
	This is why you have trouble with this topic because you can't stop laughing.
	I'm not bothered by it.
	Okay, then why are you laughing?
	This is horrible.
	I think it's just a quirk, like a co-bro.
	Come on.
	I'm not laughing about it.
	Because you laugh because you don't expect anyone to have sympathy.
	So you want to make it light.
	You want to make it funny.
	Yeah, probably.
	Yeah.
	And it's a quirk.
	It's like a.
	No, it's not a quirk.
	I don't need anybody to feel bad for me.
	Are you saying that you don't need any sympathy for what you suffered?
	No.
	I don't agree with you.
	I don't know.
	I mean, look, I'm not going to tell you what to think or feel, but the idea that you don't need any sympathy for your mother who almost killed you, bro.
	Of course you need some sympathy.
	We're human beings.
	We're social animals.
	Of course you need some sympathy.
	Did you not give me some sympathy earlier when I was telling you about my childhood?
	Yeah.
	Well, why did you do that if people don't need sympathy?
	Because I've come from a childhood where I wanted sympathy and wanting and need two different things.
	I think people that come from things like us, we deserve sympathy.
	And you deserve sympathy.
	And I look, I say this.
	It's not critical at all.
	I say this with great sympathy that I understand why.
	I think I understand why you would laugh about these terrible things.
	Because it's a way of saying, I'm above it all.
	I've healed.
	I'm fine.
	It doesn't bother me anymore.
	It's now kind of amusing and so on, right?
	But I, you know, you can certainly survive evil and you can learn from evil and you can have evil judo you into being a better person.
	But I'm never, ever, ever going to be someone who was loved as a child.
	Right.
	I'm never, ever going to be my daughter.
	I'm never, ever going to know what it's like to have not been viciously abused as a child.
	That's sad.
	Now, I think I've done a lot of good with what happened.
	I think I've certainly tried to learn my lessons and turned the world to a better place.
	And I know that I've done a lot of good.
	My inbox is sort of full of it.
	But I can't say I'm over something that permanently changed who I am.
	How can you be over it?
	It's like saying I'm over having been raised learning English.
	Like, well, I still speak English and I will never unlearn English and my brain is carved in particular patterns and ways because of English.
	So I don't, I can't say that I'll ever be over it or past it or beyond it or not affected by it.
	I have a different view of it.
	Sure.
	You could be right.
	I'm just telling you mine.
	Right.
	I think for most of human history, most human beings experienced some level of hardship and abuse was a large part of that.
	And now we have the ability to overcome it better than ever before.
	And as time goes on, we become even more skilled and adept at being will deal with it and hopefully snuff it out and heal people and heal families and heal communities.
	Okay.
	Do you think it's healing to laugh about your abuse?
	I'm healed, so it doesn't really matter.
	I'm personally healed.
	How do you know?
	Oh, I know.
	I know.
	So when you get into a relationship, a love relationship, or you have three children or you're raising your children, that this won't have any effect on you.
	I think it's made me better, prepared me to be a better father.
	So you're saying is there won't be any negative effects from your abuse going forward?
	There will be.
	I will certainly make mistakes as a father.
	I will certainly make mistakes as a husband for sure.
	Some of those mistakes will probably be from things that I've experienced.
	But I've done so much on my own that I've tried to mitigate that.
	I can only do so much.
	I can't spend every waking moment and all my energy and trying to stop out the future fires of things that happened a long time ago.
	Okay.
	So do you, this is kind of annoying, bro.
	Do you think that I'm telling you to spend every single waking moment dealing with abuse?
	No, no.
	So then why would you bring that up in the conversation?
	That's not what I'm suggesting.
	Because I'm just trying to reiterate that we have with the things that we have and the way that we've progressed, we have the ability to deal with all of it much better than ever before.
	Okay.
	Are you really telling me that?
	Do you think I don't know that?
	But I mean, I think it's important because It weakens the, well, everybody needs sympathy.
	And it's, you know, nobody came to save me.
	I had to save myself.
	I had to do the work.
	Nobody else was going to do the work for me.
	Nobody else was going to read the books, listen to the podcast, go to church on Sunday.
	Nobody else was going to do that but me.
	And this mentality of like, the world owes me healing.
	I never had that.
	I'm sorry.
	I feel like you're just peeling off into a cliché.
	So I don't know what the world owes you healing.
	So I'm going to stop that part of the conversation.
	I really do appreciate this, but there's stuff you're not processing in my humble opinion.
	And I think this, I don't like when people laugh or giggle about horrendous abuse because it's very disconcerting to other people.
	And it sort of shields you from the need to have sympathy for things that are obviously very difficult and very painful.
	All right.
	So let me just get back to your comments here.
	Boy, we've come a long way from the seven seasons of Fry, haven't we?
	Is there anything else that people wanted to say before we close the show down?
	I really do appreciate everyone's time, energy, and attention tonight.
	And be aware, like I'm not, oh, don't apologize, Greg.
	It's fine.
	But yeah, I do, it's a sort of volcanic core that it's not like I'm sitting there with this ball of volcanic anger or something like that.
	But yeah, when the topic is there, I'm very clear in my mind about the nature of the world and the hypocrisy of people.
	And I would invite everyone who's listening to this over the years, decades, the centuries, the millennia, I would invite people.
	Hopefully over the millennia, we've solved these problems, but I would just invite people to look in your life and say, were there children looking back?
	I think that they were abused.
	I think that they might have been abused.
	And why didn't I ask?
	Because we got to ask that question.
	Why didn't I ask?
	Why didn't I say something?
	Why didn't I inquire?
	Why didn't I do something?
	And it's a tough, it's a tough question to ask yourself.
	And maybe you have done things.
	I have at times done things that at times I have not done things.
	So obviously I'm not perfect that way either.
	I try to do what I can, but I'm not perfect.
	So, but we do have to ask that question.
	And we have to ask that question in society.
	And, you know, it's an interesting question to ask people.
	I've asked these people and I've asked people that I've noticed like, okay, did you ever, did you ever have a kid in the environment that you thought might have been being abused?
	Oh, well, you know, the parents were, okay, well, what about when they got older?
	What about when they were 18 or 19 or 20?
	Did you ever call them up and say, you know, I really noticed this, but I really didn't say anything.
	I was nervous.
	So blah, blah, blah.
	Like, did you ever ask or say, you know, gee, I mean, like, honestly, people knew my mother had been institutionalized and no one said or did anything.
	And I'm now almost 60 years old.
	And people have said, again, outside of friends and family and a few close supporters of the show, people have said nothing.
	I've been public about having been abused for 20 years.
	How many people from my childhood have called me up and said, ooh, you know, we kind of suspected something.
	Zero.
	People just avoid.
	And if we keep avoiding, nothing gets better.
	And you can't make it better.
	But we need to be honest about our deficiencies if we're ever going to close the gap.
	All right.
	Freedomain.com slash today to help out the show.
	Thank you, everybody, so much for a very deep and gripping evening.
	I'm sorry we didn't get to the last caller, but an email to send me a message directly.
	You can email support at freedomain.com.
	Support.
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	Mamoobs.
	Support at freedomain.com and shop.freedomain.com for your merch and peacefulparenting.com for the book.
	Lots of love, everyone.

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