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Aug. 26, 2025 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
01:41:57
HOW YOU REALLY LOOK! Freedomain Premium Show
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Welcome to the Sunday morning live.
I think I don't know if you need to use PCs.
I don't know.
James can answer whether it works on cell phones or not.
If you have the locals app, it might.
I don't know exactly how that works.
But yeah, lots to talk about.
Happy to chat.
And I hope you're having a wonderful weekend and enjoying life as a whole.
And thank you again for all of your support of what it is that I'm doing, which is hugely, deeply, humbly, and gratefully appreciated.
And of course, freedomain.com slash donate to help out the show would really, really appreciate that as a whole.
And we will, yeah, James is going to double check if you need a PC to call in or not.
But yeah, and also, just in general, you know, the calls are recorded for the history of philosophy for the next 5,000 years.
So if you have a headset, please use a headset.
You know, there are people who called in yelling at a speakerphone in an airport is surprising to me.
But yeah, just a little headset is good.
Looking marvelous.
Why, thank you.
I appreciate that.
I appreciate that.
Thank you very much, Joe.
And I'm sure you look fabulous too.
Sure, you look fabulous, too.
All right.
So we'll go.
Oh, hang on.
Should we do a question?
James says, recommend a PC.
It's not supported on the iPhone, at least.
So Existier asks, Steph, in the past, you talked about how if you want to be loved by quality people, you need to be virtuous, positive, enthusiastic, and you need to be providing value.
But you also talked about the harmful me plus mindset, which is thinking you consistently have to do something because you cannot be loved just for you.
I find these two concepts contradictory.
Can you please explain the difference?
Is that nitpicky?
Probably a little bit.
So let's take okay, hit me with a why.
It's basically the universe when I was born.
Hit me with a why.
Hit me with a why if you've ever known somebody who is compulsively joking.
They can't stop joking.
Have you ever experienced that with someone?
hit me with a Y if you have.
And if you have known someone like that, maybe you've been someone like that.
Oh, your father was like that?
Yes, I have known a few people like that.
They just can't stop.
And it can be kind of fun in the right context, but it is kind of exhausting in the long run.
Just this.
Got to make jokes, got to make jokes.
They got the funny voices.
They imitate old people.
They just jokes, jokes, jokes.
And it gets annoying and it gets exhausting.
Now, that's not virtue, right?
What I'm talking about with the Me Plus is I have to be me plus I got to spend money on friends.
I've got to be me plus I got to cook for everyone.
I've got to be me plus I got to joke all the time.
I've got to be me plus I can't ever have any problems that I talk about with my friends.
I've got to be me plus I've just got to listen to everyone talk about their problems and so on.
So that's the me plus.
You know, having honor and integrity and virtue.
Well, those aren't me pluses.
Those are you being virtuous.
So, you know, if you feel like you have to be on all the time, if you feel like you've got to be enthusiastic all the time, if you feel like you can't be honest, you can't criticize people because then they won't like you.
And, right, that's all the me plus.
That's manipulative.
Me plus is when you manipulate people.
So if you want people to like you, which, you know, it's, it's, we're social animals.
We want people to like us, which is why disliking people is so often used as punishment, right?
So if you want to be liked, the question is, what do you want to be liked for?
Do you want to be liked because you are a constant conveyor belt delivery mechanism of jokes to people and you give them the endorphins of giggling or you're constantly supportive of people and you never say anything negative to people and all of that.
Is that why you want to be liked?
Or do you want to be liked because you're honest and virtuous and courageous and speak the truth and listen well and all those kinds of things.
So there is no, see, there is no me without virtue.
I'm not offering virtue.
I'm offering identity.
Because virtue is when you stop manipulating people and speak the truth.
The degree to which you focus on manipulating people, or I do, is the degree to which we are not ourselves.
So when it comes to virtue, it is your only chance to have an identity, to have a personality, to be who you are.
I mean, we have all these thoughts, right or wrong.
We should be honest about them.
We should share them.
We should talk with people in a direct and non-manipulative manner.
But if we are frightened of being disliked to the point where we end up having to manipulate people into liking us ourselves, we're not ourselves.
It's like when you look at a sunset over a lake, what do you see?
Well, you see the sun, and then you see these rippled reflections of the sun on the lake.
It's the same thing with the moon, of course.
You can see the stars a little bit if the rake is really smooth.
So you see the sun, and then you see this rippled reflection of the sun.
The sun, in this analogy, is your self-direct and honest, its own source of energy.
The reflection that is rippled is the degree to which you think that you have to not be yourself in order to be liked.
So the virtue of integrity is the virtue of honesty, is the virtue of directness, is the virtue of being yourself and not living in fear of being disliked.
Because if you live in fear of being disliked, you can never be yourself.
I, as a public, honest, and direct moral philosopher, one of the most foundational job requirements is the willingness and, in fact, the eagerness to be disliked.
So imagine that you, I did this when I was in the business world.
I would go and give presentations about my software, answer questions and so on.
And my software was focused on environmental protection and health and safety, right?
So I was keeping the planet clean and I was keeping workers safe.
I was very, very passionate about all of that and still would be today if I was still in the industry.
And so we would go and do presentations.
I did these all over the world.
I did these in Europe.
I did these in just about every state of the U.S. I did these even in China.
We had a business partnership in China.
I went out there to do work for a couple of weeks, make presentations, and translated the entire software to Mandarin.
And once I was given the translations, I did it in an afternoon, believe it or not, because I was really good as a coder.
Anyway, so and then we would be invited to, it's called an RFP, a request for proposal.
And so usually there were like half a dozen competitors or sometimes up to 10 competitors.
We would all be putting in these proposals to implement our software to help people keep their workers safe and keep the environment clean.
And of course, I wanted to win and they wanted to win.
You cannot have any kind of excellence if you want to be liked.
Because everybody who lost to me disliked me for winning.
I mean, let's be honest about it, right?
I mean, if you really want the girl and some other guy asks her out before you do and she goes out with him and becomes his girlfriend, you resent him.
Now, of course, deep down you resent yourself, blah, blah, blah.
But you can't succeed at anything without the willingness to be disliked.
And if your focus is on moral excellence, you have to be disliked.
You know, it's like that line in fight club.
If it's your first night here, you have to fight.
If you're focused on moral improvements in the world, bro, bro, and cis, you have to be disliked.
It's not optional.
It's not a maybe.
You must be disliked.
Because if you're fighting for virtue, you're interfering with the interests of evildoers and they'll hate you.
And they'll lie and cheat and steal and threaten and use violence and all that, all of which I've experienced.
That's the deal.
That's the deal.
It's like saying, well, I want to invent the car, but I don't want any of the horse and buggy manufacturers to have any problems with me.
Bro, they'll hate you.
They'll hate you.
Of course they will, because that's what progress is.
You can't end slavery without all the slave catchers, the slave transporters, the slave sellers, all the people who rely on slavery.
You can't end slavery without all those people kind of hating your guts.
You can't get a quality woman without the other men who want her kind of hating your guts.
You can't be yourself at all.
And you can't do anything of import or note in life if you want to be liked.
Right.
I want people to listen to and watch what I do.
Not me.
I don't care about watching me, but the arguments and the perspectives and the data, the facts, reasoning, evidence that I put forward.
I want people to listen to me, not to listen to others.
And the degree to which they listen to me is the degree to which they don't listen to others.
And those others will resent me if you're listening to and watching me.
That's the deal.
Every band wants you to listen to them, not others.
Anyway, you kind of get the idea.
So you can't, I'm offering not virtue fundamentally, but identity.
Because if you live your life in fear and if you live your life in the avoidance of being disliked, you never really exist in an independent way.
See, the wolf can plan his journey.
The rabbit cannot.
The rabbit just wanders from patch of grass to patch of grass, eating and having rabbit sex.
Now, the hunter can plan the path, can creep up, can do, right?
But the rabbit has to simply dodge.
That's all the rabbit does.
The dinosaur can walk.
The little mammals at the feet of the dinosaurs have to just dodge.
All you do is react.
It's barely sentient in the way that identity is, where you can think for yourself, you can be honest with yourself.
And of course, if you bend and change who you are in order to be liked, it doesn't work.
Because deep down, you know that people aren't liking you for you.
They're liking you because you deliver some kind of dopamine or lies or manipulation or endless jokes.
You're delivering something to them that is positive, at least you believe so, that is not moral.
In fact, what you deliver to them is dishonesty.
So the compulsive jokers, they are saying, I don't believe I'm likable for who I am, so I'm going to make endless jokes.
But they're not honest about that.
They act out their dishonesty by making endless jokes.
Like a woman who dresses, you know, maybe she's pretty, she's got a great figure or whatever, and she dresses in a very sexualized manner.
What is she saying?
Well, she's saying, of course, that the value that I provide is the stimulation of lust.
But that's not her.
That's just her body.
And it is manipulative.
And what she doesn't say is that she doesn't say, I don't feel that I'm likable for who I am.
So I have to sail around the world, tits up and out, so that people will spend time with me or want to have anything to do with me.
Right?
And again, there's nothing wrong with jokes.
There's nothing wrong with dressing in a sexy manner from time to time.
I mean, nothing wrong with these things foundationally.
I mean, it's like, you know, if you can't ever give people honest assessments, like let's say you've got a friend in a band and he's like, hey, listen to this song and the song is bad.
And if you say, it doesn't work for me or whatever it is, like I think maybe try this, maybe try that or whatever is something that's missing, right?
Then you can be honest.
But if you feel like you have to say to your friend, oh, it's the greatest song since Bohemian Rhapsody.
This is going to make you famous, blah, blah, blah.
Well, he's going to like you in the moment.
Of course he is, right?
Because, you know, you're validating him, blah, blah, blah.
But in the long run, in the long run, you are harming him, right?
Because he's going to pour effort and energy into something that most likely doesn't have a future.
He's going to end up kind of embittered.
So me plus is when you are dishonest and deliver the fruits of that dishonesty to people in the hopes that they'll like you.
And that's different from providing value in terms of honesty, feedback, moral inspiration, moral courage, directness, and so on.
I hope that makes sense.
All right.
Let's see here.
Yeah, so sorry about that.
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Oh, James says he tried to call in link on a tablet, iPad.
It does appear to allow a call.
Excellent.
Well, of course, you can bark in my ear and we can go from there, too.
All right.
So we heading over.
Yeah, I think we've gone.
Yeah, so I think we're donor only.
Let's get to your questions and comments.
And of course, uh, let's see here.
Bam, bam, bam.
All right, so let's get to your questions and comments.
Chris says, that's a great point.
Being disliked by corrupt people is a good thing if you want to be authentic and virtuous.
Yeah, it is necessary.
I can relate, says Baumega.
Nice to see you.
If the secret to getting friends is to never be myself, that's an awful feeling.
Effect, if you have a strong view on anything, someone is going to be upset and dislike that view.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
I mean, COVID's going to happen again because people aren't holding family members and friends to account.
Right.
I'm reminding people about this on X all the time.
People aren't holding friends and family members to account regarding COVID.
So it's going to happen again because they don't want to upset people with the wrongs that they did.
Flyin says, I recently hired a great fresh out of college HR coordinator who works directly for me.
She's young, high energy, and loves to work.
After hashtag MeToo, I find it harder to spend one-on-one time with her as I would a man.
Recently, she rode with me on a trip, and for an hour each way, we had great knowledge transfer talks.
After dropping her off, I thought maybe I shouldn't have her in my truck alone again.
Nothing untoward happened.
It was a great use of time, but I still hesitate.
Thoughts?
I don't, yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.
In general, I would probe to see where her femininity is, right?
So if her femininity is anything to do with, you know, patriarchy, like she hates the patriarchy, she's a leftist.
I wouldn't spend any time alone with her in a million years.
Or if it's legal where you are, I would, if it's legal where you are, and if it's approved of, it's fine by the company and so on.
If one-party recording is needed, then I would record if it's legal and then delete it if everything was fine and so on, right?
Again, assuming it's legal, right?
And it's acceptable for the company and so on.
So I would figure if she's in HR, it means she's more traditionally female.
Does that mean that she's a leftist?
Does that mean that there's patriarchy stuff and so on?
And also, if you can find anything out about her friends, most women respond morally to what their friends say rather than to abstract arguments.
And so it's a bit more of a hive mind for women.
It's a lot for men too, but it's a little bit more for women.
So if you can find out anything about her friendships, if she has a boyfriend, again, you can't, I don't think you can ask these, you can't ask an employee if she has a boyfriend.
That's not allowed.
But, you know, if she brings it up or mentions it.
So somebody says, you call yourself Christian, but do not upset the devil and evil people, then you aren't actually doing anything virtuous and changing the world for the better.
Upsetting evil is the price slash benefit of being good.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, if you are developing a cure for cancer, let's say you develop a cure for cancer and it goes out into the world and it's sort of successful, all the people who currently treat cancer are going to be mad at you.
And would you sit there and say, well, I have a cure for cancer, but, you know, all the people doing radiation therapy and chemotherapy and all of the existing oncologists and the people who make hundreds of millions or billions and billions of dollars treating cancer, they're going to be upset.
So I think I'll just put my cure for cancer in a drawer.
Like that, that would be crazy, right?
But you're going to upset people by doing things, right?
Steph, you posted on X recently about how people just climb mountains instead of fighting evil.
Is it because the mountain won't dislike you, but evil people will?
Yeah, I mean, X is necessarily a very short, you know, I'll stay in that 280 characters.
I'll tweak a tweet so it stays in the 280 characters as much as I can.
And people who are into these sort of extreme sports, let's just say rock climbing or whatever, right?
There's nothing wrong with rock climbing.
Fine.
You know, I've gone and done it.
And my daughter, when she was younger, my daughter and I used to go quite a bit to a climbing gym.
And that was fine.
I have no issue, of course, right?
I can't explain all of that, right, in a tweet.
But I have no issue with people who want to do that.
But it's when you take instincts that are designed for a moral battle and subsume or challenge them 100% into this extreme sport.
Then what people do is they do all this rock climbing stuff and they say, oh, yeah, I'm a rock climber and they've got all these photos and people are like, wow, I can't stand heights.
Wow, you're so this.
You're so brave.
You know, that's crazy, but exciting.
And they get a cool sort of social credit thrill out of being that person or whatever, right?
A parachuter and so on, right?
I jump out of planes.
Oh, I can't stand heights.
I would just faint.
Oh, it's just so amazing.
And that's fine if you're training your ability to overcome fear through extreme sports.
That's fine.
Overcoming fear that's irrational is a very important part of life.
But it's when you take the instincts designed for fighting evil and promoting virtue and 100% channel them into those other things, that's when it becomes serious bullshit.
FDRURL.com slash live call.
FDRURL.com slash live call.
I wish I could stay.
I can't wait to hear the rest of the stream later.
All the best for now.
I saw another music video.
The singer really seems a kind, sweet, caring woman, amazing singer, very pretty, but goes completely clothes-free in many of her videos.
I find it sad.
Such a voice and looks great in a cocktail gown, hair done up.
Song could be a band theme.
Fact is, she is stunning.
Is that Sabrina Carpenter?
Well, what is art for?
You know, of course, in the past, I was like, well, art is to bring, you know, truth, passion, emotion, and sense of life instincts to the masses, right?
To share some degree of beauty or tragedy or something like that.
I don't think that so much anymore.
Maybe that was the purpose of art at some points in human history.
But the purpose of art as a whole is not to deliver, let's say, it's not to deliver music to the masses.
It's to deliver aspiring artists to the sexual predators in the music industry.
That's really what it's for.
I mean, Alanis Morissette talks about this in her documentary, which is really quite chilling.
Corey Feldman talked about this as well.
And so the purpose of art is to draw the young into the claws of abusers.
It is only tangentially, I mean, just look what happened to Justin Bieber, poor guy, right?
In my view, I think he was heavily preyed upon.
I don't know that there's any proof of that.
That's just my particular thought or gut feeling about it.
It's not saying it's true.
I'm just saying that's what I think.
But it's brutal.
I look what happened to Shirley Temple and Judy Garland and all of this stuff.
I think that the purpose of art is to give predators access to the young.
It's not even to deliver art to the masses as a whole.
And so the purpose of art at the moment is to focus on depopulation as a whole.
And the way that you focus on depopulation as a whole is a couple of ways.
And I can expand on this for a minute or two, if you'll indulge me.
So how do you focus on depopulation?
In art, well, you show people who are really cool and good looking, middle-aged with no kids, and they're very happy.
This is the boss girl stuff, right?
The alias stuff, the alias show.
So they're doing ass-kicking, great stuff.
They've got the shades on and they're working for the CIA and they're busting crime rings and kicking ass and they're doing all of this amazing, cool stuff.
And they look great and they've got great figures and they're intense and happy and aggressive.
And they just, it's all so, and there's no kids, no femininity, no kids involved.
So that's one way that you do it.
Another way that you do it is you show unhappy families.
You also show, yeah, you show kids fighting with parents.
You show single moms who are unhappy and then you show breakups all the time.
And that's a way of making people frightened of having children.
And you really get women to not trust men.
Because for a woman to be happy having children, she has to really trust the man that she's involved in.
So you have, you know, sleeping with the enemy and you have all of these endless videos or movies or whatever it is of men being abusive, men being terrible, men being bad, and so on.
And then that just breaks women's trust and then they don't want to have kids, right?
You also give women a huge amount of money that they haven't earned in the free market through student loans, government mandates, hiring requirements and all this kind of nonsense, right?
What else?
What else do people do for the depopulation agenda?
Yeah, I saw a show, it's called Outnumbered, which is, again, just we're outnumbered by our kids and we're just not having fun.
And you also, so you show negative stuff about families all the time.
And then what you do is you hide the unhappiness of women who are older.
You'll never see a movie coming out in Hollywood about a woman who slept around Mr. Window and ended up alone and bitter and unhappy, right?
Christine Baransky was in some show where I think she was the only white woman, not that that hugely matters, but just something that struck me.
But in the show, she'd never had children.
And people are like, do you ever regret not having children?
No.
And so you give women causes outside of having kids, which is usually helping the, quote, less fortunate all over the world.
And then some.
And you never show unhappy women.
You'll never see a movie, or at least very rarely, at least coming out of the West, where a woman leaves her husband and ends up bitter and alone and doesn't end up with anyone better.
Because the woman always leaves her husband for some, I've said this before, like some incredibly sexy, long-haired, tight-abbed sculptor who lives in a beautiful loft apartment overlooking the ocean.
She just has endless sex and wine and laughs and giggles and all of this bridges of Madison County shit, right?
So, yeah, it is all just about depopulating, particularly the intelligent.
And this is why you have movies like The Day After Tomorrow, where environmental catastrophes and you frighten people into being nihilistic.
In my youth, it was a nuclear war, and now it's environmental decay and degradation.
And when you promote a shorter lifespan, you promote our selective behavior.
And our selective behavior is a way of saying, well, we need a lot of children because life is very uncertain, which is why rabbits have more babies than wolves.
But when you provoke anxiety, fear, mistrust, and stress in people, they end up sleeping around more, but because of birth control and abortion, you don't end up with more kids.
So it is a fantastic way of depopulating.
And I will say it's a lot more civilized than a war, but it's got the same effect in the long run.
All right.
I think I've listened to one song by AI.
They also propagandized women to girl boss, don't need no man and useless degrees and load them up with six figures of debt.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, it's a woman in debt.
men don't want to take on that kind of stuff, right?
You want tough women?
Ask a mother of 10 children who willingly went through pregnancy nine more times after knowing firsthand what it entails.
Now, that is tough.
Great, wonderful, a blessing, and tough.
Yeah, I don't.
I mean, look, I've known women who have wonderful pregnancies.
I've known women who've had terrible pregnancies, but the idea, women, let's be frank, you know, it's a private donor call.
So a lot of women, not all, blah, blah, blah.
I don't need to put these caveats in with you guys smart enough, but a lot of women will pump up how difficult pregnancy is in order to create obligation and a sense of that they've done something, right?
So when I say, you know, this is what men are expected to provide, what are women expected to provide, it's like, well, we have your children.
It's like, that's not, I mean, that's an automatic biological process, right?
I mean, I eat food, I digest food, I excrete the waste.
That's an automatic biological function.
The only choice I have is what I put in my mouth, not what happens to anything after that.
So automatic biological functions are not virtuous or sacrifice.
Anyway, so it's strange.
But yeah, a lot of women will pump up how difficult pregnancy is in order to get stuff right.
They showed us both the day after tomorrow and the inconvenient truth in public school.
Yes.
Yes.
And that's to turn you all into sex addicts, right?
Environmentalism, imminent disaster, end of the world, nuclear war, that is all to provoke our selective behavior.
It is all to create anxiety and a sense of no future so that you become a hedonist.
And normally, again, hedonism would swell the birth rate, but in this case, it destroys the birth rate because it's hedonism, which destroys pair bonding.
Plus, you don't even get the kids out of it because of abortion and birth control.
Oh, somebody's called in.
All right.
Goodie, good-gooder.
Let's do that.
Sorry, I'm going to scroll way up to the top.
Callers, active caller, take next caller.
Yes, sir.
If you want to talk, I think we can.
Hey, Stepan.
Yeah, how are you doing?
How's my sound?
Okay.
Yeah, it's great.
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
Excellent.
So, yeah, I was talking about the hashtag MeToo, but I think in the broader discussion that we're having here, so I have two daughters, and the whole depopulation thing, propaganda is, you know, it was intense for me growing up.
Because, I mean, there's some truth to it, and I wanted to say this.
So without peaceful parenting, I can see how it would be very difficult to raise children these days, right?
There's so many things to do, etc.
But I got to share the experience that I've had.
And obviously, I've been listening to you for like 15 years.
And the experience I have, I have a three and a half-year-old daughter and a eight-month-old daughter.
She congratulates it by the way, but sorry, go ahead.
Thank you.
No, but the point is, so obviously it's not all it's not all sunshines and rainbows.
It's not easy.
You have, you know, there's eczema, there's rashes, there's vomit.
There's, you know, there's things to deal with.
However, my experience with my three-year-old, the last basically 12 to 16 months, you know, she started reasoning, she started negotiating.
There's not a day that goes by that I'm not amazed by the amount of negotiation that we can do in a moment's notice.
Yeah.
I mean, I have never seen, so I've seen it, I saw a couple of tantrums from her when she was about a year old.
And I wouldn't call them tantrums.
They were, you know, she didn't understand what was going on.
So she got upset.
And I comforted her.
We comforted her.
Hey, you know, we never hit.
We never spanked.
We never, you know, none of this stuff, right?
We spent as much time as possible outside.
So she's playing in the dirt and all that good stuff.
And right now at three and a half years old, I mean, it's, it's like having your best friend hanging out with you all the time.
Right.
It's not even, it's not difficult.
There's no arguments.
You know, you know, she, she has this, we just put her on a, we get like six months ago, we gave her a floorbed out of the crib and we gave her a crib to her little sister.
And she started seeing the boundaries of like, hey, maybe I can get up now so I can get up at two o'clock in the morning.
And I just discussed it with her, not a big deal.
Took like three nights in a row, not in a row, but like three nights in a week.
And she's fine.
She's perfectly behaving in terms of like negotiations.
Hey, you know, if you stay in your bed, you're going to get stronger.
You're going to feel better.
You're getting sleepy throughout the day.
She understands that.
And I really, I can't emphasize how easy it is to raise a child if you do it peacefully.
I mean, it is, I'm not going to say it, I'm not going to say it's no work, but the work that you do is so enjoyable.
I mean, it's incredible.
So you were touching on the propaganda that we've been hammered through our entire lives.
I feel like for the last 50 years, I've seen so much propaganda that families are terrible.
Families are hard.
If you raise your children peacefully, it really becomes super enjoyable.
I wish I had kids earlier because maybe they may not be able to have more.
But we could talk about my wife's especially upbringing wasn't the best.
And so because of that, we had to work through that.
And now we're older.
But honestly, I can see myself, I can see myself having six, seven, eight kids.
And it's just a beautiful thing.
I just wanted to say that, you know, and the reason I'm kind of worried about this hashtag MeToo stuff, right?
I hired as great HR coordinators because I see my daughter, I mean, she's very intelligent.
She's very outgoing.
She loves to work.
She does nonstop work.
She wants to work.
So whenever I'm outside, she's greasing the tractor with me.
And so I can see her be very productive.
I just don't want this hashtag me to stuff.
Hopefully by then it'll be gone, but who knows, to affect her in her career in a negative way.
Because I just hired this person, this really great person out of college.
She's attractive.
She's great.
She's outgoing.
She's very intelligent.
She's a workhorse.
She loves to work.
I met her boyfriend.
Her boyfriend did come over just to meet.
He's a taller, blonde guy going to school for engineering.
He works on his old whatever truck he has.
He's a pretty good guy, too.
And I'm just like, well, she has all the markers of greatness.
Why am I like, I don't want to have to hesitate to just bring her along for knowledge transfer.
Hey, I have to go to this other office, hop in my truck, let's go for an hour, let's have lunch, and talk about some policies or whatever it is.
I'm just worried about that for now and for the future.
So, I mean, the Me Too thing is another problem and piece of propaganda.
So, the Me Too thing is sort of very complex.
And I'll just touch on it briefly here and I'll get your sort of thoughts on it.
But the Me Too thing has a lot to do with regret.
So, let's talk about movie actresses, very ambitious, very good-looking, often mentally quite disturbed, and they want a role in a movie.
And the casting couch is a very real thing.
So, they will go and take meetings at 11 o'clock at a hotel, like 11 p.m., at a hotel room of a notorious womanizing director or producer or someone like that, right?
And they dangle sex appeal in order to get roles.
Again, not all blah, blah, blah, tons of exceptions, but there's a lot of women who do this.
They will dangle a sex appeal in order to get ahead.
And then, when a guy hits on them, they're, you know, they're just so shocked and appalled, and so on.
Now, of course, you know, I mean, the men shouldn't be hitting on them and all of that, but there is a certain amount for me of just like live by the sword, die by the sword, which is, let's say that you're a rich guy and you spend all of this money to, you know, I'm going to fly my friends out to Cabo and then we're going to rent this yacht for the weekend.
And, you know, then we're going to, I'm going to fly them all out.
We're going to go on a safari in Kenya.
And then later you say, man, you know, these dirtbag friends just took advantage of me financially.
And it's like, well, it's complicated, right?
So the Me Too stuff, if there is a paradigm, as there is in the entertainment industry, and you'll notice that almost all the Me Too stories came out of the entertainment industry.
The entertainment industry runs to a large degree on sex appeal and exploitation.
And if a woman, and this could be the other way with a man too, right?
Because there are gay directors and producers, of course, and they may require.
I mean, I remember very clearly, both women offered me career advancement in return for sex, and men as well when I was younger.
So it can happen to men as well.
Sorry to interrupt.
I've actually also been offered career advancement by other men or in exchange for sexual favors.
Obviously, I didn't take them, but it's not just from.
Yeah, so power can corrupt people.
And in the entertainment industry, the power is immense and prodigious.
And you read about the people who've ripped off musicians.
I mean, it just goes on and on.
I mean, Prince put the word slave on his forehead.
George Michael didn't record for decades because he felt so appalled by the contracts.
Michael Jackson, of course, called out predation in the music industry.
Billy Joel was ripped off.
Sting was ripped off.
That was by his accountant.
Elton John was ripped off.
Queen wrote a whole song called Death on Two Legs about somebody who was taking all their money because they're like, hang on, we have all of these albums and we're broke.
We have all these hit albums and we're broke.
And they would, and yet, you know, I think it was the drummer Roger Taylor who was saying, like, well, we're broke.
And yet the guys who are running the business side, they're all in new Rolls Royces, right?
So the level of predation in the music industry or the entertainment industry as a whole is financial and sexual.
And in terms of corrupting the culture, it's a big thing too.
So, you know, you sound like you have a pretty prosaic and down-to-earth business.
And if you're not in the entertainment industry and if a sex appeal is not foundational to the success, like you know how it is with stars, I can't remember what it's called, but it's basically the FB index.
Like, do you want to have sex with this person?
And that is one of the things that is, or, you know, for men, it's like women want to have sex with him and men want to be him.
And that's what makes someone a star.
So, yeah, unfortunately, you know, the sex appeal stuff is a very big deal.
And when you have, as a male, let's say you're a male producer, and you have a lot of women who want to be in your movies and they're, you know, trying to show you how sexy they are and so on.
I mean, that's a lot.
I mean, I only was in the theater world for a relatively short amount of time, but I produced a short movie and I produced a play that I'd written.
And the women can be kind of seductive.
And whether that comes from disturbance or whether that comes from just they need that in order to get popular, or at least that's their perception of it, the women can be kind of seductive.
And that's not to blame the victims or anything like that, but it's a very complicated thing.
It has a lot to do with the entertainment industry and probably not a lot to do with your industry.
Therefore, the odds are probably less dangerous that way.
And I mean, if my daughter, you know, let's say she wanted to be a child actor, I'd be like, no, I really don't think that's a good thing.
I think what goes on with Amanda Bynes now is just talking about some of this stuff, the stuff that goes on with child actress.
Owen Benjamin talks about it.
I remember a very vivid video Owen Benjamin did about Leonardo DiCaprio when he was younger.
And of course, an open secret.
I think I had the director of that on about childhood sexual abuse in the media in Hollywood and the entertainment industry.
It's brutal as a whole.
So I wouldn't have.
So I'm sure your daughter wouldn't go into any of those fields.
But sorry, go ahead.
Well, no, so kind of a faraway friend of the family works in the modeling industry and saw a picture of my daughter and oh, we should get her into the modeling.
And I'm like, no way.
No, never.
We're never doing that.
That is a terrible idea.
So thank you, but no thanks.
Yeah, it's funny because I was scout of modeling, went through a whole course.
And then when it came to the casting calls, I literally slept in and I never contacted them again.
This is when I was a teenager.
And yeah, everyone was like, man, you've got a great look.
You know, it's very strong jawed, blue eyes.
I had great blonde hair and all that.
And people were like, it's a great look.
We'll get you work and so on.
And I was like, and I kind of wanted to because I was like, yeah, sounds like good money.
And, you know, there's a certain vanity aspect of it that appealed to me as a teenager and all of that.
And I don't know if it was an unconscious thing or something like that, but I just, I remember when it was like time to actually go out there and do the casting stuff and all of that.
There was a big meeting for all of that.
I slept through it and I never contacted them again.
And even when I woke up, I'm like, oh, I missed that meeting.
And then I just kind of forgot about it.
And I don't know if it was an unconscious thing protecting me or something like that.
But yeah, because I remember talking to a guy at a party who was an underwear model.
And the level of sexual harassment that he had to deal with was unbelievable.
That's funny.
I have a very similar experience.
So, you know, I used to be in the New York City area and I was, again, a teenager.
And I was actually, you know, it was the modeling thing I was being recruited for.
I actually went to the meeting just like I didn't oversleep, but I went to it.
But for some reason, I just didn't want to even go in the building.
I never went.
I just, I detoured.
I went to Chinatown to get dumplings.
Probably much better for you overall.
Yes.
Yes.
So it was just, that's an interesting thing.
I see what you're saying.
So for the person that I hired, I'm still going to, I'm going to treat her like I treat my male younger folks.
I'm just going to train them up.
And if I, if my, uh, if my gut feeling changes, then I maybe pay attention to that.
But yeah, we don't, we're not a.
We're not a modeling agency.
Let's, let's put it that way.
No, and, and of course, you know, if any woman is ever floating with me, I simply talk about my wife and my daughter.
And, you know, if you talk about how happily married you are, just mention it on occasion, then all of that is a great way to diffuse all of that stuff.
Not that I'm sure she's not angling or anything like that.
But if she comes from a good family, she has a nice boyfriend and all of that, I wouldn't be particularly concerned.
And it sounds like that's all the case.
Oh, well, it's great.
And she shouldn't be punished for what horrible producers in Hollywood have done to actress.
You know, she shouldn't suffer.
And that's where I'm coming from.
It's like, well, you know, she's going to miss out on coaching opportunities and developing opportunities because those hour-long drives, I say, those are great knowledge transfer time.
It's great to discuss issues and problems.
It's a good time to get me and have conversations with me because honestly, when I'm in the office, it's difficult for me to even have 10 minutes.
Oh, no, the mentorship opportunities.
I remember I missed a train to go to Montreal.
And a woman I worked with and I ended up driving six hours to get to Montreal, had great conversations about the business, and that stuff is real gold.
But sorry, go ahead.
No, no, I mean, that's exactly right.
I don't want her to miss out on that.
And I hired her specifically straight out of college.
I understand that college is going to have a little bit of indoctrination, but I didn't want the traditional HR person coming into where I'm trying to build something cool, right?
So I'm training her to be useful HR, right?
Which is mostly recruiting, employee retention, and just having conversations and knowing which folks culturally fit into the place that I'm building, right?
It's a very, let's just say it's a very conservative area.
It's a very conservative business.
And so.
Well, but of course, the better she is and the more successful she is at her work, the more she's going to delay motherhood, right?
That's the other challenge.
Oh, we talked about that.
It's actually interesting.
So she's like, oh, I hate children.
And I'm like, well, I'm not trying to convince you, but I love children.
Why do you hate children?
And you might find this interesting because, you know, that sounds like a very lefty thing to say.
But she's not a lefty at all.
I know that.
The conversations we've had.
And so she was explaining things like, well, children just take up all of your time.
They take up all your work, you know, all of your, they take up your youth and your, I can't travel anymore, et cetera.
Like, well, where have you listened to that?
Who taught you that?
Have your parents taught you that?
No, my parents always said that having children is the best.
Okay.
And so is it the movies?
All the stuff you watch.
He's like, yeah, all the, all the stuff we, you know, everything I've seen is that parenthood is a chore, it's a bear.
And, you know, I say I don't like children, but I'm probably going to have kids, she says, you know, when I'm later, like later when I'm early 30s, she's very, very, very young in her 20s right now.
Right.
And so I'm like, well, I'm not going to tell you what to do.
But I said, my, I told her, my, my personal experience is after having children, raising them peacefully, raising them right, raising them as they should be, nonviolently, I said.
After raising them nonviolently, it's been the greatest gift I've ever had.
And so if I were you, I wouldn't want to miss out on that.
So you could tell she was pondering that and thinking about that.
And so I told her, look, if we build this up, if we build this business up correctly, I want you to, and the whole idea behind my business building is I want to create a business or basically create a business that allows people to have families, allows people to spend their time with their families, have flexibility in their work schedule when they need it, right?
And love the people that they work with.
Work is going to be work, but love the people that they work with, create a good environment.
And I strongly believe that I can do that.
I've almost did that at a much bigger place.
But then the higher level people saw dollar signs with private equity.
And so that mission failed.
But I learned a lot.
And now I'm in my next mission, rebuilding that.
And that's kind of, she agreed that that's the best idea and that's great.
And so, I don't know, it's just propaganda that they're fed.
Yeah, because all the people that they say, and they say to men, oh, your sexual market value will increase in your 30s.
And they say to women, oh, you know, you can have kids in your 30s.
It's just delay, delay, delay.
And, you know, it's like in The Hobbit where Gandalf is getting the trolls to just argue with each other and then they don't even notice the sun's coming up and they turn to stone, right?
It's just delay, delay, delay.
You know, have fun now.
You know, enjoy yourself now.
Find yourself.
Whatever the hell that means.
I look down and here I am.
Right.
So all of this stuff that you have to manifest your authenticity in Thailand or whatever nonsense is going on.
And at all, it's just like, don't have kids, don't have kids, don't have kids.
And it's really tragic.
All right.
Is there anything else that you wanted to mention?
I think somebody else keeps coming in and out of the next queue for the calling.
Oh, yeah, I'll finish up with this thought.
So it's to the point where, so I'm having conversations with, so with expecting mothers at my, where I work.
And since I'm, I'm a, I'm the leader on the people side, right?
So I have conversations with them.
I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm going to come right back after I give birth.
I'm going to come back at the office.
And I'm saying, no, no, no, no.
You stay at home for at least a year, year and a half.
I'm not telling you what to do, but I recommend this.
And then come back on a flexible work arrangement.
We'll work, you know, we'll pay 80% of what you make.
You'll work 80% of your hours and that'll protect you from your schedule.
And the kind of work that we do, you can do it from home.
It's a laptop and it's in spreadsheets, right?
So don't worry about it, right?
So I'm encouraging the next generation of mothers to take that time.
And then when their kids are a little bit older and if they want to come back and be that girl boss, they have plenty of time to do it in the 30s.
So anyway, that was the last thought I wanted to leave you with.
Thanks for your time, Stefan.
I appreciate that.
And thank you for all of your sensitivity and greatness as a boss.
That sounds just lovely.
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
And of course, thank you for supporting the show.
All right.
So sorry, somebody came in and out.
Maybe they can come back in.
Let me get to other people's questions.
Until then.
Until then.
Hang on, call her.
All right.
No cholera.
Yeah, if somebody was in the queue and then they just kind of vanished.
But if you want to come back, I'm happy to hear.
All right.
Let me just get to your questions.
Yeah.
Gosh, it's been almost an hour.
Almost an hour.
It just flies by.
Flies by.
All right.
Bum, bum, bum, boom.
I'm sorry.
I'm just scrolling down here about the questions.
Yeah, the opening of idiocracy is funny and bittersweet, right?
Men who pump up how difficult mining is are called gay by other men.
Yes, I think that's probably true.
How do I call in?
So you can go to fdrurl.com slash call in.
FDRL.com slash call in.
Was it Courtney Love pouring over Justin Bieber?
No, that wasn't Courtney Love.
That was some other woman, the woman with the really spiky hairdo.
That wasn't Courtney Love.
Courtney Love, I mean, I think fairly wretched in terms of, you know, being involved with Nirvana singer, Kurt Cobain.
But she did try to warn people about Harvey Weinstein.
And it's very clear.
She's like, I paraphrase you, but she's like, oh, how do I put this without getting sued?
If I can't remember if she named it my name, but if Billy Joe Bob asks you to come to a meeting in his hotel room, don't go.
I think that was as far as she could get there.
I was talking to a streamer last night, subject of Jamie Lee Curtis.
No problem taking off her top and starting out, middle of career, complains of exploitation.
Now she's grandmother age.
Yes, that is a that is that is that is gross.
But she also spent many years as a drug addict.
So I try not to take seriously that sort of stuff.
Jenny McCarthy.
Yeah, it was Jenny McCarthy.
Was it Jenny McCarthy?
Yeah.
And he did say, he said, I feel kind of violated at the moment, right?
Someone says, speaking from experience, I selfishly waited until late 30s and failed twice to have a child.
I'm sorry about that.
I'm sorry about that.
All right.
Let me just see if there's.
Ah, yes, callers.
All right.
Next caller.
What is on your mind, my friend?
Hey, can you hear me?
I can.
Do you want to do video or are you just doing audio?
I was just doing audio.
Okay, go for it.
I'm sorry if I missed the last 10 minutes of conversation.
My computer was having a sit.
No problem.
If I drop out mysteriously, just keep talking and move on.
I was thinking about what Flying ATO was talking about with the joys of raising children.
And that's pretty much dovetailed with my experience with peaceful parenting and the propaganda around not having kids.
So, oh, yeah, it's the worst.
It's a burden.
You have no life, which is basically true.
I know for me and my.
Hang on, hang on.
It depends what you mean by life.
Back at just, yeah, it just crashed again.
Sorry.
Oh, yeah.
Sorry.
You said you'll have no life, but it depends what you mean by life.
If by life you mean doing whatever you want whenever you want it, which is not really much of a life, that's just hedonism.
It's what animals do.
Then, okay, but you're creating life.
You have a better life.
You have a continuance of life.
I mean, as far as life goes, life is plus one.
It's more life.
Yep.
Sorry, this thing is glitching again, so I'm getting to every other word.
So basically, in 30 seconds, I think the propaganda purposefully ignores the joys, focuses on the negative.
And then nobody I see in society is promoting the positive except for us here.
That was basically it.
And it just caught my attention.
Like, yeah, this is an actual good time.
And nobody talks about it.
And I think it's because power, when you remove the power out of relationships, you actually get relationships.
And our society is focused on control and power, forcing you to do stuff.
And if you do that to kids, I think kids are pre-wired against that.
They're pre-wired for relationship.
And you have to train that out of them.
That was kind of my point in a nutshell.
You take such a great gift away from children when you use force and punishment against them because children want to love, worship and adore their parents.
And you are taking away a fundamental gift and open-heartedness from children when you force and bully them because they just want to wake up and give you a big hug and love you and look up to you, respect you, admire you.
And you just you take all of that away.
And it's so it's so tragic and so unnecessary.
Sorry, if there's anything else you wanted to add?
Yeah, I just think if you play this logic out, I was in an argument with some of my friends who are basically arguing the status position and they argue the necessity of the status position because people end up bad, but they refuse to look at, well, what causes people to end up bad when they even themselves agree that children start out innocent.
So have to have a state because of bad people, but we keep training bad people via the use of force would basically be my argument.
You keep introducing force in this equation.
Yeah, you're going to get bad results.
And then, oh, now we need more force, more.
It's just like they're compounding the evil to fight the evil.
And it's like, I don't know how to convey like more evil.
Evil plus more evil does not equal good.
It's just going to equal more evil.
Well, but when people are defending the state, they're just defending their parents.
They don't actually understand the abstract concept of the state.
They don't even know what the state is.
I mean, ask most people what defines a state.
They won't tell you.
Well, it's an agency with a monopoly on the initiation of force.
That's what a state is, right?
And so they don't even know what they're defending.
But what they're doing is they're saying, and you can see this when I post on X about spanking.
You see all of these people who are like, well, I was spanked and I turned out better for it.
And the reason that kids are such pussies these days is because they're not spanked and our culture is decaying and dying because kids aren't spanked.
So when people are defending the state, they're defending instinctively the principle that we are only good because we are violently aggressed against.
And they don't know or understand the government.
They don't really have any clue what the government is in terms of any abstract definition.
But what they're doing is they're defending their parents, right?
So my parents use violence against me and they're good people and I'm a better person for it.
Therefore, the government is like the parent to the children of society.
It has to use violence or bad things will happen.
Because, you know, this is what is always talked about.
And you can see this in a wide variety of contexts.
They say they just threaten you.
So if you don't hit your children, they're going to run out into the street and get hit by a car.
So they're just saying it's a greater evil, therefore you must do a lesser evil.
If you don't hit your kids, they're going to stick forks in electrical sockets.
They're going to pull boiling water off the stovetop and so on, right?
Run out into traffic.
And so they're saying your kids will die if you don't hit them.
And so hitting them is way better than them dying.
And you can say this about anything, right?
I mean, if you don't do X, Y, and Z, your children will die.
They'll become drug addicts.
They'll become suicidal.
It's just, it's a massive argument from effect, right?
Negative consequences.
And it's a way of scaring you into hitting your kids.
And I mean, you know, it wasn't like when Sweden banned spanking.
It wasn't like, oh my God, children are getting mown down like frogs in the springtime on the roads.
Like just everywhere you go, kids flying through the air on the roads.
I mean, it's just you simply adapt your behavior, right?
If you don't want your kids to run into the street and you can't hit them, what do you just do do everything the same, but you don't hit them?
No, you figure that you build a fence around your yard.
You have your children hold your hand.
You know, you you tell you instruct them very carefully.
You keep them very close.
You go to places where there aren't a lot of roads until they're older.
There's so many things that you can do.
Sorry, you were going to say.
Yeah, no, it's like it's the argument that your house is a giant death trap unless you beat your children.
Then it's fine.
Do you want a child with some slight red marks on their butt, or do you want a child whose skeleton has turned to ash because they've electrocuted themselves?
And it's like, come on, man.
Neither.
I mean, yeah, how about why not neither?
Why not neither?
I mean, yeah, it's it's uh no, that's that's an interesting point about defending the parents.
And I didn't make that correlation.
Yeah, you're just defending the behavior that you received when you were a child, and likely because you don't want to call that out as evil.
Right.
I mean, if you, if your children respect you and love you, they'll listen to you because you know that you're talking for their best interest, right?
So if your children love and respect you, they'll, they'll listen to you, of course, right?
And if they, and if you hit them, they won't love and respect you, and then you find that they don't listen to you, and therefore you have to hit them more.
It's funny because that worked precisely for me yesterday.
I took my daughter to an amusement park and she was like, hey, I want to ride this roller coaster first.
And I was like, no, no, you got to do this one first.
Trust me, it's better.
This was my first roller coaster.
I was your age, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I literally use the argument, do you trust me?
And she's like, yeah, yeah, I trust.
So easy, right?
So we did it.
I have in my basement a little rocking horse.
And I keep it there in plain sight because I walk around sometimes in my basement doing call-in shows.
I did one last night.
And we were at the hardware store picking up paint because we were going to paint the house, or at least a couple of rooms in the house.
And my daughter saw this rocking horse, absolutely loved it.
And she was very young.
And she just desperately wanted the rocking horse.
I didn't particularly want to buy it.
I thought it might be a bit of a waste of money.
And things were a little tight back then.
But she made the case.
And she and then I thought, okay, she said, I'm going to play with it all the time.
Blah, blah, blah.
And I thought, okay, so let's say I buy the rocking horse.
Either she gets really good use out of it or she gets bored of it, right?
If she gets really good use out of it, been a good investment.
If she gets bored of it, then I have an empirical example, right?
And it wouldn't be like, well, remember when?
It would be like, I know that you really want this.
You remember how much you really wanted that rocking horse and you never really played with it?
I mean, it could be the same, right?
It could be the same.
And so we ended up buying the rocking horse.
And it was a great lesson for me as a parent, just sort of reasoning it out and saying, well, how can I lose?
I mean, I think it was 70 or 80 bucks.
So it's not something I wanted to spend back in the day.
But I mean, how can I lose?
Either she gets great use out of it or she doesn't, in which case it's going to prevent hundreds of dollars more of spending or maybe $1,000 more of spending down the road.
Because, yeah, when she would say that there were these little coin machines that you could get, you press them and you get these coin souvenirs, right?
And my daughter was really into those.
And I think it was like a couple of bucks to get one.
And I'm like, okay, great.
Yeah, get it.
Right.
And then the next time she wanted it, I'd say, where's your last one?
Right?
Where's your last one?
Yeah.
And that, and what you're doing there is you're letting the child make the case for themselves using reason.
Therefore, they respect you more.
And this is exactly what adults do to other adults in a free market scenario.
You know, you make your case, you make your arguments, you make your choices.
There's nobody with a oh, I think we may have lost him.
Oh, we're back.
Okay, sorry, go ahead.
You said there's nobody with a free market scenario.
Yeah, there's nobody with a gun to anyone's head forcing this down anyone's throat because as soon as that occurs, people automatically lose respect.
They just go, I'm just being compelled.
Right.
And the other thing, too, as a parent, when your kid wants something that you have doubt that they're going to really use, I mean, there's no human being alive who can say, I have never regretted any purchase I've ever made.
Well, that's true.
I mean, I picked up a headset the other day and I tried it because I needed something with a good mute button.
And when I hit the mute, it says, mute on.
And it completely obscures what the other person is saying.
And then every 30 seconds, it goes to remind you that it's in mute.
It's really annoying.
And then when you turn the mute off, I think you all know where this goes, mute off.
And I'm like, okay, I regret that purchase.
I even emailed the manufacturer saying, can we turn this?
Can I turn that off?
That's really annoying.
No.
So I had to return it, right?
So, yeah, so there's things that you buy that you regret and so on.
I mean, I talked about that story when I was in Morocco.
I bought two rugs, which I've never used because he brought me some mint tea and was very charming.
It was very sad.
But yeah, so everybody, and letting a child go through bias remorse is important, right?
Because you have to learn that sometimes you'll want stuff.
And it's the same lesson with sugar, right?
Sometimes you want stuff that's good for your tongue, but bad for your body.
Right.
So yeah, that's pretty much it.
I'll stop this chaotic dropping.
No, no, I appreciate that.
That's great, great comments.
I really appreciate that.
Sepanta, why don't you just call in if you've got the question about video games?
So let me know.
C2 Spark, nice to see you again.
That speech you gave this week about potential was great.
How does one know they're not realizing their potential?
Because you're alive.
You know, because you're alive.
I want to do the greatest show ever every single time.
I have varying degrees of mood and energy.
I can't force the eloquence out.
I can work myself into a kind of linguistic frenzy, but I can't force the analogies because I don't prepare my speeches.
I can't work and polish them and rewrite them and so on.
So I have to aim for the very greatest communication that I can provide, missing most of the time.
But how do you know you're not achieving your potential?
You're not dead yet.
Everybody who's not dead is not achieving their potential.
So you just keep aiming higher and higher.
I guess there's different degrees in all of that.
All right.
I have watched the Bomb of the Brain series.
Only takes a few cop-watching videos to see the consequences.
Cop-watching videos.
Only takes a few cop-watching videos.
I don't know what that means.
To see the consequences, not reaching people to think emotionally unstable in adult bodies.
The public are either uncaught criminals, deadly threats.
I'm sorry, I don't know what that means.
You're going to have to redo that one because it's got too many typos and things I don't.
And, you know, I mean, it's a little respectful thing, right?
I mean, if you're going to ask me a question live, then please proofread it and make sure it makes sense.
It's just a kind of politeness thing.
All right.
So let's see if our good friend Sepenta, he's not showing in.
Maybe he can't call for some reason at the moment.
So I will answer his question as best I can.
And again, I really do appreciate you guys.
Support for the show.
All right.
Let's get to his question.
It was about video games.
I've got a question.
He says, I apologize in advance for asking this question again.
However, this is something I've been struggling with my whole life, and it's been a hard habit to break.
My video game playing, I did a 90-day detox some time ago, which I had no desire to play again after 90 days.
I only got back into them after about 120 days after I hurt my back.
A lot of the advice you've given me in regards to this subject has helped a lot, as well as conference with my therapist, but I keep going back to them.
A lot of the time, I don't even enjoy them.
My most recent dive into them hasn't been as bad as it has been in yesterday years, but it is holding me back.
Do you have any thoughts on this?
All right.
Let me know how other people may or may not struggle with this stuff.
Do you have oh, Sapanta?
There we go.
He can't take the call.
Yes, my friend.
Is there anything else that you wanted to mention about the question?
You are in, but I can't hear you yet.
You may need to check and make sure that locals is using the right microphone.
Can you hear me, Sal?
Yeah, go ahead.
Oh, perfect.
Yeah, so that question I put in, yeah, that's pretty much what I have.
I kind of missed what you were saying trying to get in the calm here.
But yeah, just go ahead.
Tell me.
So what do you mean?
Tell me the games that you play.
Recently, it's been Stardew Valley, Civilization.
I did jump in Minecraft briefly for a bit there, Fallout.
Yeah, games like that.
And what is your hourly time?
Sorry, what's your weekly time and hours?
Weekly time?
15 to 20.
Okay.
And when you say you don't enjoy them, does that mean you don't enjoy them at the time or afterwards you feel regret?
Like you can be like, I ate two pieces of cheesecake.
It was great at the time, but afterwards, I'm like, oh, God, why did I do that?
Yeah, kind of like that cheesecake analogy, but even sometimes I'm like playing away.
I'm like, oh, God, there's much better things that could be dealing with my time.
Because I'm usually while I'm playing, I'm listening to a podcast, either from yours or somewhere else.
And every time I'm like, yeah, I could be doing something better with my time.
And what better thing would you be doing with your time?
I could be, you know, writing a novel that I've been thinking of doing.
I could be going out on dates.
I could be doing some more volunteer work, reading books, that sort of stuff.
And how old are you?
And what is your dating situation?
I'm 30.
I'm single at the moment.
I had a girlfriend two months ago.
I recently been chatting with another woman.
So it's getting there.
Sorry, what happened to your girlfriend two months ago?
We were dating for about a month.
We met on a dating app, and it seemed to be going well, but she just kind of almost out of the blue broke up with me, said I was trying to change her too much, that I was trying to turn her into a trad wife, which I find kind of interesting because in our conversations, like that's, she said that's kind of something she wants.
No, but there's a lot of people who, when they're given good advice, even that they agree with, they don't like it because it comes from the outside.
And in particular, it comes from a man.
Right.
So, I mean, there are people who were like, I know I should stop smoking, but I'll do it on my terms when I want to, not because you're nagging me.
You know, that kind of stuff, right?
Right.
Yes.
And how long did you guys go out for?
A little over three weeks.
Oh, two weeks.
Okay.
And what's the longest relationship you've had romantically?
It took me out.
Can you still hear me?
Yes.
What's the longest relationship you've had romantically?
That was the longest relationship, a little over three weeks.
Okay.
Why can't you sustain a relationship?
I'm not sure if it's that I can't because I've only just started dating over the past year.
So I think when I find a woman, it'll go great.
Well, no, no, because you have no experience.
How is it just going to automatically go great?
Sorry, can you say that again?
Okay, so help me.
I think we've talked before, but remind me, why is it that you didn't start dating until you were 30 or late 20s?
From the age of 16 to 26, I was heavily involved in drug use.
I had a very low self-esteem.
Not good in my life.
But druggies date?
True, but I didn't feel like I'd be a good catch, so I didn't even bother.
Lots of people who have low self-esteem date.
I mean, yeah, that's the reason I told myself.
Okay, I'm not looking for the, you know that I'm looking for the real reason, right?
I'm not sure what that would be.
You help me dig that answer.
Well, what was your level of lust in your 20s?
That was quite high.
No, so you lusted after women.
Okay.
And did you just masturbate instead of pursuing women?
Yes.
Was it a pornography addiction?
It was.
I stopped watching about a year and a half ago now.
Okay.
All right.
And were there women who were interested in you that you didn't reciprocate, or was that not the case?
Yeah, I don't think that was the case because I never really went out.
Oh, so you weren't part of any drug scene.
You just took the drugs at home?
Yes, and played video games.
Okay.
And how did you fund the drugs?
I worked.
It's expensive, right?
Yeah.
I worked full-time.
Okay, got it.
All right.
And how long has it been since you were using drugs?
Three years.
A little over three years.
Congratulations for that, by the way.
That's wonderful.
I'm very glad to hear that.
So the video games give you a sense of accomplishment and achievement, which is fine if it's preparation for something real, right?
So how much in your life are you doing that the video games are helpfully preparing you for in terms of willpower, problem solving, persistence, overcoming obstacles, you know, developing those muscles in your mind?
How much could VMs help to develop that?
I'd say they are to a decent degree because I do volunteer work for a men's organization.
And, you know, when I have an email come in of something I need to deal with, like an email campaign I need to send out, somebody I need to contact or whatever.
Like almost every time I'm like, I just want to jump right at it.
Because since I took that 90-day detox, like I latch on to real achievements a lot more because I didn't have the artificial to substitute that.
So like a lot of times, also at work, like I do a lot of overtime at work and like, you know, reaching out to women on dating apps or sometimes even in person wherever I'm at.
Like it does give me that little bit of a bump.
Does that answer your question?
Okay.
So I was a little troubled.
Doesn't mean that there's anything wrong.
I'm just telling you my sort of experience when you said, when I meet the right woman, it's just going to work out.
Right.
That's not, that's not true, though, because you lack experience.
You lack experience negotiating.
You lack experience pair bonding.
You lack experience about navigating and negotiating differences in relationships and so on.
Right.
So I think if you think, sorry, that's confusing.
My belief is that if you think, well, we're just going to, the right woman, we're just going to click and it's all going to be great.
It's like saying, well, I don't really, I've never really played guitar, but when I pick up the right guitar, I'm going to be a good guitarist.
I mean, there is a certain amount of skill that you need to develop.
I'm sure you didn't get it from your parents, and you certainly didn't get it from being solitary in the close 15 years of, you know, 15 to 30 dating experience that most people have.
So I'm concerned that you are underestimating the difficulty of how you need to negotiate in relationships.
Now, again, when you have a reasonable good woman, it's a whole lot easier.
But I guess I'm concerned that you think that it's going to just happen when you don't have experience or practice.
Or maybe, but maybe you've read a whole bunch of books on how to negotiate in relationships or something like that.
But what is your negotiation experience?
Because in video games, particularly single-player games, you don't negotiate.
You just act, right?
I mean, I'd say it's okay.
I don't really have too much to compare it to.
But, you know, with volunteer work that I do at work, a lot of the charity events that I've ran, I haven't really had too much of a problem.
Yeah, volunteer worker, it's fine.
Obviously, it's a good thing to do in many, but it's not the same as negotiating with an equal.
Right.
Because you're doing a favor in a way.
Yeah, I guess the closest would be would be like some of the men that I do volunteer work with, like outside of the organization itself, like us having chats and, you know, maybe me helping them, you know, do some renovations at their place.
Like that'd probably be the closest thing.
No, but again, when you're doing people's favors, that's not really negotiating.
Negotiating is when you're equals and neither of you has the upper hand.
And when you're doing people favors, you kind of have an upper hand in a way, right?
Right.
Okay.
So yeah, I wouldn't say I have experience in that sense.
Okay.
So I certainly would recommend watching videos, listening to podcasts, reading books on negotiating, trying to find win-win situations.
Maybe I'll record some, maybe I'll record some shows on negotiations or how to negotiate.
But I think that's the issue because if you say, well, it's just going to happen when I meet the right girl, the question is, here's the question.
This is the most foundational question to ask in the dating world.
How do I look from the outside?
So how do you look from somebody who's just meeting you for the first time?
Let's say there's some woman.
How do you look to someone who's bunging in from the outside, who's meeting you for the first time?
Sorry, I'm back now.
Yeah, one more kick in again.
Sorry, your question.
How do you look to someone who's meeting you for the first time?
I'd say all right.
I have a good career going.
I have my own apartment.
I have a fairly decent amount of savings.
The not-so-good part would be my lack of experience in relationships.
Sorry, that's it?
Lack of experience in relationships?
Bro, you were a drug addict for a decade.
Right.
I mean, I'm sorry, I don't mean to be harsh, but are you kidding me?
Right.
Well, it's been so long now if I don't really think about that too much.
Well, that's why I'm asking how you look from the outside, not what you think about.
Right.
So somebody comes, like a woman comes in from the outside, right?
Because I'm going to be, I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm going to tell you what I think very bluntly, right?
Because you're a listener, so I want to be honest.
So you come in from somebody coming in from the outside says, okay, so you were a drug addict, you were a pornography addict, now you're a video game addict.
You have no experience in relationships.
And the last girl dumped you after two weeks.
Right.
That's not a good look.
It's not a good look.
Now, you can't do much about the drug addiction stuff because you've dealt with that.
You invasted drugs three years ago.
And again, massive congratulations.
But I'm telling you, man, you don't want another fucking addiction in there right now.
You really, really are begging you.
Don't have another addiction that a woman has to deal with right now.
You're off the porn.
You're off the drugs.
Fantastic.
If you're on the video games, then the woman is just like, okay, so he's just got an addictive personality and he's in his 30s.
He can't manage his addictions.
Why would I want to have kids with him?
Right.
It's really, it's a brutal assessment to look at yourself from the outside because we're all so familiar with ourselves.
We also, of course, have these thoughts and justifications.
And for you, it's like, well, but the drug addiction was three years ago and blah, blah, blah.
But from somebody coming in from the outside, for how long were you a drug addict?
10 years.
10 years, right?
So from 18 to 28 or 17 to 27.
And when did you first try?
How old were you when you first tried drugs?
15.
15.
Okay.
Right before I turned 16.
Okay.
So what do you think a quality woman from the outside thinks of what your life was like when you were taking drugs at 15?
I'm sorry, Steph.
Can you ask that question again?
Yom keeps kicking me out.
Yeah.
James, can you ping them?
Because this is annoying as hell.
So what do you think a quality woman, when she finds out you started doing drugs at the age of 15, what does a quality woman think of your life as a child?
I thought it was pretty awful.
Right.
So, you had a terrible family, so you didn't learn relationship skills there.
You started taking drugs at the age of 15, which meant your emotional development likely stalled or stopped at that point.
And then you became a full-fledged drug addict a couple of years later, which lasted for 10 years.
And this is something that she has to process, that she has to commit to.
Now, again, it's in the past for you, and I'm thrilled that you're clean, and that's a beautiful thing.
But you need to look at yourself from the outside, from a skeptical viewpoint, from the viewpoint of someone who has no investment in you, and you have to say, you have to have an answer to this.
This is true for everyone.
This is not just for you.
This is true for everyone.
Why choose me?
Tons of men out there.
Tons of men out there.
Why choose me over because especially women in their 20s, women in their early 30s, they have a buffet of choice.
They have a feast of choice.
They have an excess of choice, right?
They can date, especially with social media.
They have, if they're reasonably attractive, right?
They have 10 men a day sliding into their DMs, right?
So out of all of the men that this woman could date, why should she choose you?
This is a big question that you have to answer.
We all have to answer it.
Like I was in the business world, I'm like, why out of all the people who provide the software should you choose my software?
In the podcasting world, why out of all the podcasts out there should you listen to my podcast?
Right?
So that's the question to be successful in dating, you have to answer.
Why would a woman who's got a choice of 100 men choose you?
So what's your answer to that?
Well, when you ask that question, I feel a pretty strong sense of dread.
Good.
Good.
So that's the gap you have to close.
Do you see what I mean?
Yeah.
So good.
The dread, I mean, we avoid that dread, but then we also avoid seeing how we look from the outside, right?
Right.
So dread is good.
Dread is like, oh, God, I can't think of a, I mean, maybe you can, I can't think of a really compelling reason why a woman should choose me over the other hundred men or the 50 men or 10 men or whatever it is, right?
Why should you choose me?
Yeah.
And I have a couple of reasons, but a lot of them.
I agree to other men.
Yeah, no, hit me up.
What are the reasons?
Why should you choose me?
I have a fairly decent career, pretty good provider.
I have a pretty decent net worth.
I'm fairly good in conversations.
I have a good degree of self-knowledge.
I've worked on myself in therapy.
I do a lot of good in the community.
Yeah, those would be some of the big ones.
But a lot of the answers I have are comparing myself more so to a lot of other men my age.
Well, but you have to, because that's the dating pool.
So if you have the positive attributes, I'm not going to argue, but I think the self-knowledge thing has still got a ways to go because there's looking at yourself from the outside.
Self-knowledge is not about looking at yourself from your own perspective.
A lot of times, self-knowledge is looking at yourself from the outside.
So why the dread?
If you have these positive attributes, where's the dread coming from, do you think?
I feel like the dread is coming from the fact there are much better men out there than me.
Okay, but better in what way?
You know, they'd be more confident.
They'd be stronger.
They earn more.
They'd be even better in conversations.
They have a better career, better wealth.
They don't have sorry about that.
They don't have the same history I do.
They don't have the addictions.
What's the story of remind me of your relationship with your family of origin?
Yeah, so we did a call in about four years ago.
I was molested at a very young age by one of my mom's friends' son.
And yeah, that went on for a couple years.
As a self-defense mechanism, I used to crap my pants because of it.
And, yeah, so that led to a lot of bullying in school, which led to a lot of depression, a lot of hopelessness.
And sorry, but what is your relationship?
And I'm sorry for all of that, of course, right?
But what is your relationship with your family of origin at the moment?
My father is not in my life at all, and he likely never will be again.
I mean, he's just not.
I don't ever see a reason why I'd have him in my life again.
Okay.
With the rest of my family, like it's kind of the same boat.
Okay, tell me about, hang on, tell me about your mother.
What's your relationship with your mother at the moment, if there is one?
I don't talk to her.
Okay, so you have no relationship with your family of origin.
Is that right?
That's correct.
Okay.
I'm sorry.
Let me just, a little bit of a caveat there.
Maybe once every couple of months, I'll have a couple texts with my sister.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Okay, that's fine.
Yeah, because I mean, that would be if your family was abusive coming in from the outside, I mean, you're familiar with your family, and this is not for you because you've dealt with that issue.
But if you have a really negative or destructive or abusive family, you're used to it and maybe sort of familiarize yourself with it, and that would be natural.
But coming in from the outside, that's a huge negative for someone.
Like, why would they want to get involved in some trashy family with abuse and in this case, molestation?
And it's just wretched.
And drug abuse.
And drug abuse.
Oh, your father is a druggie, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you've dealt with that.
And again, I'm really sorry for the family origin story.
But so look, the purpose of evaluating yourself from the outside is not to make you feel bad.
It's to make you be realistic.
Right.
So if you have negatives, which we all have, right?
If you have negatives, then that simply means that you have to compromise in who you choose, right?
Because we all want the best.
And the question is, are we the best?
We all want the best.
Are we the best?
So that's the big question.
If you have negatives, what are you willing to compromise?
Because other people, like the woman you want, does she have to compromise with you?
Well, sure.
I mean, I don't know if whoever the number one perfect guy is in the world, well, we're not that guy, right?
So we have to.
So it's a way of having things be realistic, which is to say, what will the woman not get from me that she wants?
Therefore, what will I accept in a woman that I don't want?
Do you see what I mean?
Yeah.
And so this is what Kevin Samuels would talk about this, like these women who have like two kids by two different dads, and they want a top 3% earner to take care of their family.
And it's like, well, no, because you having kids is a negative for a man.
A man wants his own genetic legacy.
He doesn't want to fund other men's kids.
And so the fact that you've made these decisions that lower your sexual market value means that you, to aim to the top tier is to just be alone.
So we have to be realistic in our physical appearance.
We have to be realistic if there are wealthier men and a woman wants a wealthier man, which most women would, all other things being equal.
If there's a wealthier man out there, if there are better-looking men, if there are men who don't have as tragic a history, and again, you're dealing with it, and so you're not responsible for the history.
It sounds like you're dealing with it very honorably.
But what is a woman going to have to compromise on to be with me is a way of saying, what do I, what am I willing to compromise on in getting what I want?
Right?
So that is that accurate external assessment.
It's like looking at your resume.
I mean, it's one of the reasons that it's good to put together a resume is you get to see how you look from the outside with regards to employment.
That's a very important thing.
So self-knowledge is not internally looking at yourself.
I mean, there's some aspects of it that can be helpful with that.
But the real self-knowledge is how do you look from the outside?
How do you look from the outside?
How do you look to people who've never known you?
How do you look to people who are skeptical of you?
How do you look to people who are going to judge you with no knowledge of your history?
That's a really tough perspective to get, but it's really, really important to get that perspective.
So if you say, well, I had a terribly abusive childhood.
I was a drug addict for 10 years, a pornography addict for a decade and a half or whatever, and now I'm struggling with video game addiction.
But when the right woman comes along, it's going to be easy.
That is not wisdom.
Did you see what I mean?
Like from the outside, that would be a red flag.
And I'm trying to tell you this so that you can get a woman that you want.
Now, maybe you did try and trad wife this woman up.
In other words, you said, well, you're not exactly what I want, and therefore I'm going to try and turn you into exactly what I want.
That is an act of arrogance, right?
Because I tell you, bro, you're not exactly what she wants.
She has to make compromises.
Everybody does.
Nobody gets everything they want in a relationship.
You overlap, right?
And it's good enough, right?
I mean, I tell you this.
I mean, I think I do the best show in the world.
That's certainly my goal.
And I can't tell you how many people email me or contact me or message me saying, well, you so sucks because you used to do this or you don't do this or this is, right?
I can't.
I mean, I try and commit to doing a really great show and really important, really, really important conversations.
And then there are a ton of people who are completely dissatisfied with what I do.
I'm not enough for them, right?
Because I'm not focusing on their particular shibboleths or preferences.
You know, did my wife get everything she wanted when she met me?
Well, no.
I mean, I was an unemployed struggling to be published author, right?
And so you're not going to get everything you want.
The other person isn't going to get everything they want.
So my concern is that if you think, well, look, all of these great things I have, therefore I have the right to demand to get what I want from other people.
That's tough, right?
That's tough because you do have a history that is tragic.
That is not your fault, which is your childhood.
And then you have a history that is more tragic, which has to some degree your issue, which is the drug addiction, right?
That was more of a choice, although I understand that it's dominoes that come from the past.
So a woman who dates you is going to have a checklist.
And you'll meet some of those issues.
You'll meet some of those preferences on the checklist.
And you won't meet other items on the checklist.
And you can, I don't know if you've read or listened to my audiobook novel, The God of Atheists.
It starts off with this, right?
A woman has a checklist of everything she wants.
And as she ages, she has to drop things off the checklist.
So a woman who dates you was interested in you would much rather you came from a stable family, would much rather you didn't start doing drugs at the age of eight, sorry, 15, would rather you weren't molested, which again, it's not your fault, but it's not something that a woman particularly wants.
It's not a big plus, right, in a guy.
And again, you know, the fact that my mother was insane and right, that's not what a woman wants when she dates me.
She doesn't want to, she's like, oh, wow, the fact that his mother is insane and corrupted, that's a big plus, right?
And it's not my fault, but it's still the negative, right?
Things can be not your fault and still the negative, right?
And so, I mean, I'm sure there are women who didn't date me because I was bald or balding, right?
And they didn't like that or didn't find that appealing, whatever, right?
So looking from the outside in and saying, okay, what's the checklist?
What's the pluses?
What's the minuses?
And we always want to defend that and say, well, but, you know, the drug abuse came out of the child, sorry, the drug abuse came out of the child abuse and blah, blah, blah.
It doesn't matter.
To the other person, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
If there's some guy who's 4'11 and he says, well, but the reason I'm 4'11 is because I didn't get enough food as a kid or something like that.
It's like, I mean, sympathy, but a woman probably is not going to be super keen to date a 4'11 guy, right?
I mean, I can say, look, it's not my fault I went bald.
That's just genetics, right?
But it doesn't matter if the woman doesn't like a bald guy and she's not willing to overlook that.
First of all, that's actually kind of a plus, you know, that, oh, you're balding.
I don't want to date you.
It's like, well, your boobs are going to sag because you're going to age, right?
But we all have to, you know, deal with reality.
And if a woman wouldn't date me because I was bald, good, like nature has done me a favor by keeping a shallow person out of my life.
And now my wife enjoys me being bald so much that even if a pill came out tomorrow and there's constantly floating around, a pill to regrow your hair, she's like, don't you dare.
I love you.
Look.
So looking at yourself from the outside is to say, what is a woman going to have to sacrifice to be with me?
And everyone is going to have to, I mean, let's say, oh, you're the richest guy in the world, but you're a workaholic.
So maybe she wants the richest guy in the world, but she also wants a guy who's not working 80 hours a week, which richest guys in the world tend to do, right?
Or, oh, he's the richest guy in the world, but we have to live in a gated community.
And every time our kids go out, they need 12 bodyguards or whatever.
Like I think Mark Zuckerberg goes jogging with 17 bodyguards around him, right?
Because he doesn't want to get kidnapped.
So even if it's a big check mark, oh, the richest guy in the world, some super wealthy guy, it's like, well, then there are all these negatives that come with that as well.
So nobody gets everything they want, right?
And if you think it's just going to click with a woman, that's not true.
You need to develop these skills.
And you can develop these skills prior to being in a relationship.
And you need to be humble about what you demand because nobody gets everything they want.
The woman who's going to date you is not going to get everything she wants.
And you should be perfectly willing to compromise everything except virtue and fertility.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it does.
Yeah.
And those are two very interesting perspectives.
Not getting everything I want from the relationship.
And there are going to be things I need to compromise on.
And self-knowledge being a view from the outside.
I never thought about those two things.
Yeah, because the woman that you dated, she said you wanted to change her too much, right?
Yes, even though she said that those were things she was interested in.
No, it wasn't confusing.
So you dated her for a couple of weeks and you had a big project about how she needed to change, right?
Somewhat.
Okay, everything is somewhat.
I mean, so the fact that the woman felt pressured to change in the first couple of weeks of the relationship is a massive turnoff.
Right.
Because you're saying, I'm really attracted to you.
You're great.
Here's a list of 10 fundamental things I need you to change.
I mean, I know it wasn't that, but if that was her experience, she's going to dump you.
Right.
Yeah.
Right?
I mean, I would, because I'm not going to date someone who wants me to fundamentally change, even if I want to embrace that change.
And especially somebody who still has significant dysfunctions themselves, giving me a list of everything that I need to do to improve would be annoying as hell, right?
I mean, if you had a woman who was 50 pounds overweight saying that, hey, man, I need you to hit the gym because I want to see abs, wouldn't that be kind of odd?
Yeah.
And again, I'm not sort of putting you in the exact same category, but I mean, you, like all of us, have some self-knowledge stuff to do.
And it's tough for you to give advice to women when you've never had a successful relationship.
Here's how I need you to be in this relationship, but you've never had a successful relationship.
That's like somebody who's never had a successful business lecturing me on what I need to do to be an entrepreneur, to be successful.
Like, don't lecture people and don't demand that they change.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it does.
Okay, good, good.
All right.
Well, thanks, everyone.
Quick question.
I think there was useful stuff here for the Gen Pop, but it is a private call.
Hit me with an N if you think it should stay just for donors.
Hit me with a Y if you think this would be useful and helpful to other people as a whole.
Or, you know, N for private, Y for public.
I will take your guys' thoughts on this.
We didn't talk to any particularly private things here as a whole.
But I think this would be helpful for people.
And maybe I'll do a series on negotiations because Lord knows I've had some experience with that both in business and in theater and arts and in online stuff.
Okay, so I appreciate that.
It's very generous.
And, you know, you guys can keep this private.
It's your show.
You've donated and paid for it.
So if you want to release it, I consider that an additional donation and a very great act of generosity.
And I really do appreciate that.
Okay, beautiful.
All right.
Well, I'll stop here.
Thanks, everyone, so much.
If you're listening to this later, I hope that you will thank the community for releasing the private donor call to the public and also freedomain.com slash donate to help out the show.
Would hugely appreciate it.
Lots of love from up here, my friends.
Take care.
I'll talk to you soon.
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