Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux - Are My Parents EVIL?!? Twitter/X Space

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Aug. 1, 2025 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

02:34:40

Are My Parents EVIL?!? Twitter/X Space

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	Good evening, everybody.
	Welcome to Wednesday Night Live, 30th of June, 2025, live here on X, which used to be my X platform.
	Now it's a platform known as X. And let's go straight to callers.
	Jeet, Vaughn, Jeet.
	Vaughn, if you want to unmute, I'm happy.
	Hey, Vaughn.
	Hello.
	How's it going?
	Good.
	How you doing?
	Good, good.
	I guess just to save time and not be beating too much out of the time here, I guess my question, if I'm just getting right to it, is like I've been noticing on Twitter, you've been you've been playing a game of like,
	I guess to try and get birth rates up, just to say like you're trying to tell men or shame them into accepting a lot of maladaptive feminist, like trad type behaviors.
	Whereas in the past, like one of the main reasons I followed you was because you used to go against the feminist sort of collective.
	So, I mean, why, why this sort of change from pre-2016 or pre-ban Stefan to whatever the Stefan we have now is like, I mean, a lot of like things have changed for a lot of guys, you know, like it's not, I would say there's been a big change from even the past 10 years.
	Like it's not, things are not as simple as, hey, go talk to that girl.
	You know, it's a lot of guys are just taking it the wrong way.
	So I'm just wondering, like, do you, are you aware of this?
	Like, do you, are you empathetic to the plight of what's going on now?
	Like, what is like your really, like your true feelings or true thoughts on the whole thing?
	Like, what do you think is a good outcome of what will happen from this whole thing?
	I still don't know what your question is, but I'm certainly happy to answer it if you want to take another run.
	Yeah.
	So I guess just to make put it very simply, like, my question is, like, why are you sort of, it seems to me like you're switching sides.
	So before you were mainly anti-feminist, anti, you know, in a rational way.
	But my question is, like, why, why the switch?
	You know, why is it now?
	Okay, switch from what to what?
	Give me specifics.
	Like, specifically, you used to be very anti-feminist.
	Okay, you keep saying the same thing over and over again, which doesn't help me.
	Hang on.
	Hang on.
	I've let you talk.
	Okay.
	So you keep saying the same thing over and over again.
	This is a communication skill issue.
	Okay.
	So there used to be this old, I think, was it Monty Python or something like that.
	Oh, no, it was a comedian who would say, you know, when somebody doesn't understand English, we just kind of repeat it louder and think that's somehow going to give them.
	And I said, imagine if somebody, you don't speak Hungarian or something like that.
	And somebody says, and you say, I'm sorry.
	And they go, right?
	They just get louder.
	It doesn't, right?
	So just repeating things doesn't add any particular knowledge to me.
	I'm saying now it's, you know, so, and honestly, you're doing a lot of feminine stuff.
	First of all, you're accusing me of bashing or shaming.
	Sorry, you said shaming.
	I don't know what that means.
	I don't genuinely don't know what people mean when they say shaming.
	You're accusing me of flip-flopping without providing any evidence.
	And you're simply repeating words when I'm asking for clarification.
	These all are toxic feminine traits as a whole.
	And I'm not, I'm not calling you female or anything like that, but I'm still trying to understand what it is that you want me to answer.
	What accusation you want me to answer.
	If you're going to say, well, Steph, you used to be anti-feminist and you're saying I'm flipped.
	Are you saying I'm now pro-feminist?
	Like I'm making feminist points and I'm complaining about the patriarchy and toxic masculinity.
	I haven't done any of that fucking stuff.
	So help me understand what has flipped.
	Okay.
	So from what I see from a lot of your posts and I've no, no, I don't want your impressions.
	I want specifics.
	Yeah, I know.
	So I'll give you those specifics.
	So, but what I'm trying to just tell you is the background of it.
	So what a lot of people, especially on Twitter, have a lot of things.
	Okay, I don't want an argument from a lot of people.
	I want your specific.
	And listen, you could be entirely right in your criticisms of me.
	So I'm not trying to say you could be entirely correct.
	I might have missed something really obvious about what I'm doing.
	But I just need you to get to the point.
	Don't talk about a lot of people.
	I understand that there's a lot of people who are upset by what it is that I say on a regular basis.
	I get it.
	100%.
	So what are your specific criticisms about what's changed?
	Well, like my specific criticism is like the lack of sort of awareness of the things that have happened in the pub in the public perception of what of what sort of happened these past few years.
	You know, a lot of your talking points are very much, I would have to say, repeated from a lot of trad cons and trad feminists.
	Okay, I still don't know what your specific criticism is.
	What did I get wrong?
	What arguments do you want to say?
	So the way it works, the way it works is not you hiding behind a bunch of other people.
	The way that it works is not you saying, well, times have changed in some unspecified way.
	The way it works, and listen, you're absolutely welcome to criticize me.
	But the way it works is you say, Steph, here's an argument you made that was false.
	Here's an argument you made that self-contradicts.
	Here's an argument that you made that goes against the evidence, right?
	That's the way it works.
	I still don't know what argument I have made that goes against reason and evidence.
	Okay.
	So just to give you an example, like earlier you sort of, I wouldn't say earlier, but or like a few days ago, week ago, I can't really recall, you put out a post saying that, hey, you know, why can't guys just go up to a girl and ask her out?
	Like, why, why is it so hard for you to do that?
	And there was a lot of reaction to that.
	I don't know if you recall that post, but that was definitely something that I was doing.
	Is that how I phrased it?
	Do you have the, I mean, because that doesn't sound like something I would say, but.
	It wasn't the exact words, but it's very similar to the intent of what you said.
	And it's not misrepresented.
	So it's worth criticizing me and calling me in, calling into me publicly and calling me out as a hypocrite or something like that.
	Which again, it's fine for you to do that.
	It's absolutely fine.
	I could be a hypocrite.
	That's absolutely fine.
	So the way that it works as well is when I'm talking, I'm going to ask you not to talk in my ear because it's kind of rude.
	Okay.
	So it's worth calling me out publicly as reversing my position of being a hypocrite of being manipulative of shaming men.
	It's worth doing that, but it's not worth taking, say, 10 fucking seconds to look up my actual tweet.
	Right.
	But I go look.
	I'm happy to wait, honestly.
	I'm sure you know how to search, right?
	I think it was something to do with Starbucks or a coffee shop or something like that.
	And if anybody else has that as well, they can post that in the chat.
	And I just have to debate in a rigorous manner.
	Because if you're going to say this is kind of what you said, that's not, you wouldn't like to be misrepresented in public, would you?
	Right.
	But I can say that because it got to the intent of what you're saying, and it isn't meant as referencing your personality.
	I don't know.
	Bro, I don't know you from Adam.
	So I don't know whether you're arguing in good faith or bad faith.
	Now, if you say, well, trust me, bro, this is what you meant, or this is in the spirit of what you said.
	James, if you could look this up, you can give it to me, say, on some other platform.
	Hang on.
	Hang on.
	See, here's the thing.
	Have I asked you not to talk while I'm talking?
	Right, but you're kind of just queuing and asking, like, expecting me not to talk about it.
	I'm actually trying to communicate to hang on.
	I'm trying to communicate to my producers because I don't think you're going to be able to find the tweets.
	I'm trying to communicate to my hang on.
	Again, you see, you're still talking while I'm talking.
	I'm just saying, okay.
	No, but you're still talking when I'm talking.
	It's rude because I've got this thing in my ear.
	I'm trying to talk to my producer to look up the tweet.
	And you keep going, uh-huh.
	Yeah, okay.
	And I've asked you not to talk when I'm talking because what I have to do is I have to stop what I'm talking to try and figure out what you're saying while I'm trying to communicate to my producer.
	So if you don't have the self-restraint to obey a simple order based upon politeness, then I'm going to have a question about whether you're going to argue.
	Again, you're doing it again.
	This is wild, man.
	I mean, are you actually unable to shut up when I'm talking?
	Is it physically impossible for you to do that?
	Then address my point.
	Why do you keep accusing me of things and not addressing my point?
	I feel like you're accusing you of talking while I'm talking.
	You're trying to play mind games and word games by asking you to stop talking when I'm talking.
	Okay.
	I'm waiting still.
	Okay, fantastic.
	So if you could actually do that, I would appreciate that.
	Okay, let me just make a note here.
	And if anyone else can find it, well, the problem is, can I get to the chat?
	I don't know that that's particularly easy to do.
	And in general, if you want to call somebody up and call them out, which again, I have no problem with you calling me out.
	I could have said something wrong.
	I could have mistyped.
	I could have a blind spot I'm not aware of.
	So you're absolutely fine to talk.
	But if you can't be bothered to even look up the tweet, did you bookmark it at all?
	So it was one of your first tweets when you came back.
	I'm pretty sure it had to be a week or two ago.
	I know that it had to have happened very close to when you just came back.
	So let me ask you if it wasn't.
	Let me ask you if this is the one.
	So I wrote this.
	When did I write this?
	Sorry, I'm just looking at it.
	Joe, so July the 2nd.
	So this is almost a month ago.
	I wrote, men, I know it's scary to ask women out, but it's absolutely necessary.
	It's an absolutely necessary rite of passage.
	Men don't have to deal with menstrual cramps, pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, menopause, etc.
	All we have to do is ask women out.
	It's a pretty good deal, really.
	Is that what you're referring to or something like that?
	Yes, yeah.
	Okay.
	Fantastic.
	So the problem, can I say, can I speak?
	Yeah, yeah, go.
	So the problem with like when I was pointing that out was that I was, I'm saying there's a lot of risk and there's a lot of psychological risk when a lot of guys do that to the point where most guys and in fact most women will consider stuff like that extremely creepy if not illegal I mean if if if if you don't get into trouble at some point um I mean there are guys who definitely take it a bit ahead
	too far but and don't back off when they're told no but besides that the whole point is like you know that that kind of behavior from from the question i'm trying to relate to what when i asked you earlier the whole point of asking that question like it indicates that you have an attitude that a lot of men are perplexed about because it's like we're looking at something that was might have worked in the
	past but like to suggest it now is it's like you're telling us to do things that like it's it's a very gino-centric kind of mindset to be to be encouraging men to do that you know like putting yourself at risk in order to find a mate um it like it just shows that it's a lack of values when it comes i mean i'm not saying you're immoral i'm saying when it comes to this topic um it shows that
	the values that you may have may not be the best for like men as a whole you know i still don't know what your criticism is so but again i'm happy my criticism is like you are trying to push for better gender relationships i'm assuming like more there's no need to assume do i'll read the tweet again because i'm not sure if you were listening there's no need to assume anything you just have to go so you hang on you're still doing this thing right you got to just find some sense of self-restraint, right?
	Okay, so I wrote, "Man, I know it is scary to
	to ask women out but it is absolutely necessary rite of passage now men don't have to deal with menstrual cramps pregnancy childbirth breastfeeding menopause etc now these are things that cause women to suffer can we agree on that um it causes them to suffer but again it's natural so they're built for it like i don't understand the like when did i argue that it was unnatural okay i i never said you did i'm just making a note of it that it is on like it is natural.
	So it's not like it's not demonic possession, and it's not a failing fucking robot part.
	So let's both agree that it's natural.
	I don't think we need to add that.
	So I say men don't have to deal with menstrual cramps, pregnancy, childbirth breastfeeding, menopause, et cetera, which are difficult and unpleasant for women.
	All we have to do is ask women out.
	It's a pretty good deal, really.
	So if I had the choice to deal with menstrual cramps, pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, menopause, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, or ask a woman out, I would choose asking a woman out.
	Because menstrual cramps, pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, menopause, et cetera, you know, women die from pregnancy.
	Some you get ectopic pregnancies, preeclampsia, blood pressure issues.
	Women die in childbirth and so on, right?
	And menstrual cramps with associated endometriosis can really cripple women on a regular basis.
	It's a pretty negative experience and they take risks in getting pregnant and having childbirth, et cetera, right?
	I mean, women can die from that.
	Now, is there risk?
	You said psychological risk.
	Is there risk in asking women out?
	Sure.
	They can say no.
	They can roll their eyes.
	They can be rude and so on.
	I, you know, no one's going to jail for asking a woman out.
	Like, that's just not, that's not happening.
	All right.
	That is absolutely not happening.
	And so that's my point that women have discomfort being women and men have discomfort being men, which is the risk of rejection and so on.
	And so I'm saying that have some sympathy for the fact that women have their own difficulties, men have their own difficulties, which is rejection.
	And it's actually a pretty good deal for men in many ways.
	Is that a crazy argument or is that wrong?
	Yeah, it is.
	It is.
	Okay.
	So can I just like, again, I don't want to take up time.
	So can I just explain like, because I feel like where I'm coming from, a lot of guys, I represent a lot of guys' current feelings about what's happening.
	I can't verify any of that.
	And I always hang on.
	I'm always suspicious of people who say, like, you see this line, we don't like you, Steph.
	So just speak for yourself, because I don't know how much you do or don't represent men as a whole.
	So you just got to talk about, talk about the reasons behind it, right?
	Talk about the reasoning or the evidence that makes sense to you.
	But your personal feelings or how many men you represent, I don't know anything about that.
	So just give me the counter argument.
	I'm again happy to hear it.
	Sure.
	So when, like, just going back to your example, you know, you say women have it worse than this, that thing that's completely natural that somehow I need to feel bad for them for some reason.
	And then you say.
	Hang on, hang on.
	Hang on, hang on.
	Sorry.
	I'm sorry to interrupt you.
	So do you have any sympathy for the suffering that women go through biologically, some of which is natural and some of which is chosen, right?
	So menstrual cramps, menstrual issues are natural, but childbirth is chosen.
	So do you have any sympathy for the suffering that women go through by virtue of keeping the human race going?
	Absolutely not.
	Okay.
	So why do you think, hang on, why would you say that you don't have any sympathy for any of the pain and discomfort and sometimes disease or death that women go through as women to keep humanity alive?
	So the reason for that is intent.
	Women don't have kids or families to keep the human race going.
	They have kids and families because it fulfills a need of their own.
	Having kids and having families to women is a very self-rooted sort of fantasy.
	It's not like they think, oh my God, I need to put myself on the line and sacrifice everything and anything to have.
	No, not those strawmen.
	Neither of us is saying that.
	I'm asking, do you have any sympathy for the suffering that women have to go through in order for the human race to be perpetuated?
	Because if they don't have menstrual cycles, if they don't get pregnant, if they don't give birth to children and so on, which is associated, of course, with a later reduction or elimination of fertility through menopause, if women don't go through that, then the human race doesn't survive, right?
	So if you're talking about purely from a biological standpoint, I can understand the need for why women or why I can understand that part of it.
	But what I and I definitely, I don't feel empathy for them because I just learning a lot about the whole situation, the reasons for like, and this is, I'm giving you the why of why I think this way.
	It's because I, yeah, like, like I said, it's the intent is completely off with these people, you know?
	Sorry, the why, I don't know what you're talking about.
	The intent is completely off with these people.
	I don't know what that means.
	So you said that, you know, do you have, you asked me, do you have empathy for women because they keep the human race going because of, because they have menstrual cramps and they have they have pregnancy, et cetera, et cetera.
	Is that correct?
	Like that's your.
	Do you have any empathy for the fact that women suffer quite a lot in order to keep the human race going?
	No, no.
	And yeah.
	So if you want me to get into why, I can explain.
	I'd really like you to get into why, but you're not doing it.
	So I really, I'm running out of optimism that the conversation is going to be resolved because you keep not giving me the answer.
	So the, like, to give you the briefest, like, why, uh, that kind of explains it.
	Just give me the why.
	Stop telling me about the brief.
	And if you'd like to give me the why you don't care about women's feelings.
	100%.
	The intent.
	I do not care about their feelings.
	I do not care about anything because, like I said earlier, it's about the intent.
	They do not have the intent to do these things because of some moral or righteous because they have morals or they think about the, they think about human beings as having morals.
	I mean, I think that's what I'm saying.
	I think about human beings as having morals.
	I don't know what that means.
	I think a lot of them don't appreciate good people that exist in society.
	They really look at people who have morals in a very sick way.
	You mean all women?
	I would say the, the over, like not like you could, you could say 99.9% of them that don't do it to the same extent as men.
	Again, using men as the, Yeah.
	I mean, you have a negative view of me.
	I think I'm quite a moral person, but you have a negative view of me.
	So I'm not sure how you'd get to put all of that on women when you're kind of doing the same thing to me.
	I don't have a negative view of you.
	I was just criticizing a specific viewpoint that I felt was rooted in like maybe some like it's just rooted in something else.
	You know, it's just not necessarily my view of things.
	So would you say, is your argument, and I'm not trying to straw man, I'm just trying to make it more efficient.
	So is your argument that women don't respect or recognize or certainly don't respect morality?
	Is it because they can't identify it?
	I'm just again, I'm just trying to map your thinking.
	Is it because women can't identify morality or they identify it and dislike it?
	I think it's more of the second, but I think because like when you think about women, especially today, but even like throughout history, people have this view of them as sort of being an oppressed class.
	But that is not at all true.
	In fact, the number one victim of any war or conflict has always been men, especially the lower classes of men.
	Poor men, men of a certain oppressed minority class, you know, etc, etc.
	It's always been men, though.
	Like that's been the well, no, it's not always been men.
	Are you saying that women don't suffer during wartime, even by losing men they love?
	Again, like this goes back to that meme, you know, like let's say like the Michelle Obama meme where like these 200 African girls got kidnapped and there was that whole campaign of, oh, bring our girls back.
	But then no one ever tells you that those same Islamic radicals had slaughtered all the men and boys of that village.
	Like they weren't even really talked about by those people.
	Well, I mean, but we don't go to hard leftists for objective analysis about things in the world, right?
	I would say I understand that you think Michelle Obama's leftist, but to the world, she's a centrist.
	Like that's how they view her.
	I mean, when we're talking about what is, not how people view things.
	Okay, yeah.
	Okay, so listen, and I've, of course, I agree with you that men have suffered enormously throughout human history.
	But is it also fair to say that women have to some degree suffered?
	Whether we make it into a competition of who suffers more or less is not as important because we'll never be able to balance things out perfectly.
	It's an Appleson-Oranges situation to some degree.
	But would you say that women have suffered throughout history from rape, dying in childbirth, being very bonded with half the children who died before the age of five, which of course affects men as well, but women have a particularly special bond with newborns.
	So would you say that women have suffered throughout history and ambitious women did not have much scope for education and achievement outside of perhaps joining the nunneries?
	I would say like those sorts of incidents definitely happen.
	I mean, I'm not saying, you know, like each and every single woman was chilling out and having fun, but like the comparison as groups and as attitudes is so off that, you know, it's it's kind of insane how we just sort of do that automatically as humans.
	Maybe, sorry to interrupt.
	Do you think that I have tried to highlight over the course that I've the work that I've done over, say, 20 years as a public intellectual, do you think that I've tried to highlight and remind women of the suffering of men throughout history and in the current world?
	I think you've tried to highlight to everyone.
	I don't know if you've tried to highlight to women specifically.
	Well, I can't tell who I do, but highlight to the world as a whole.
	Like I just did a tweet about how more men currently die in industrial accidents than women do in childbirth, right?
	So I just put that tweet out a day or two ago.
	And I mean, I feel like I've been reminding the world, and I guess women as well, that men have suffered enormously throughout history.
	And I don't know that we need to say, well, let's only focus on men and pretend that women haven't suffered.
	I mean, I think we need a correction, but I think that is around highlighting men's suffering rather than denying the fact that women suffered, which they did.
	Yeah.
	I mean, like, again, like the main issue, again, it's not really speaking at just to just to talk about the sort of attitude of society and sort of people at large, like, because it's largely unavoidable, I think, for a lot of people.
	I don't know what you're talking about.
	Sorry, you're going to have to be specific.
	This is just general words.
	Like, okay, so like you say, like, you asked me, can you admit that women have been victims alongside men, but to a lesser degree of, let's say, so many historical injustice?
	No, no, I didn't say to a lesser degree.
	I said it's really tough to compare these two because the suffering is quite different.
	Sorry, not to put words in your mouth, but yeah, you did say that, right?
	So like what you just said, but you know, this sort of thing has extended to like very gray areas of men's lives, especially in the modern world, which is causing a hell of a lot more frustration than just simply kill or be killed.
	You know, like I don't know what you're going to have to be specific, but I don't know what you're talking about.
	I'm getting specific to that.
	Yeah, I'm going to ask you to start specific.
	Sure.
	So the gray area, to be specific, to give you a specific example, like take, for example, workplace culture.
	You know, as I've noticed, like, when you're a man, it's, especially if you're, let's say, an ethnic man or a poor, lower class, whatever man.
	What is an ethnic man?
	Non-white, non-white man.
	Oh, so ethnic simply means non-white, but that's kind of racist, isn't it?
	I mean, whites are an ethnicity.
	I mean, ethnic man is non-white.
	Are you saying whites aren't an ethnicity?
	Look, I mean, we, I really, I consider that I'm just using the accepted nomenclature.
	Well, don't use the accepted nomenclature.
	All right.
	Let's say Marxists define your language.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	People of color, does that work?
	Or I mean, I guess I'm not alabaster here.
	Just say non-whites.
	Okay.
	Non-whites, like I've noticed, like, but this even this, like, even white men are sort of a victim of this, where I've noticed, for example, in the workplace, and this is an example of that gray area of a lot of the kind of problems that men face.
	Are it's like, let's say I was trying to get promoted or get props for my type of work.
	You know, I've noticed that there are so many biases and like inbuilt biases into men or sorry, not into men, but into society as a whole, where, you know, a lot of men will notice that they're being passed over for promotions.
	They're being passed over for things.
	Okay, but sorry, these are things that we're supposed to be disagreeing about.
	Do you think that I've ever praised coercive or law-based interferences into free hiring practices or praised DEI or praised affirmative action?
	Have I ever done anything to praise that or I have consistently and constantly opposed it?
	So again, like I was giving you a- No, no, this is a question.
	You're supposed to answer the question.
	So you never definitely didn't do it because I know you're an anarchist libertarian.
	If I'm yeah, fine.
	Okay.
	So why are you bringing stuff up in your criticism of me that has nothing to do with me?
	So again, this what I was giving you an example of was a gray area of the kinds of things that men face.
	Now, this problem, the reason why I had bought it up was that originally a lot of the attitudes or things you were saying, like it showed an attitude, which is exactly what I'm criticizing, which is sort of like it's still not, I would say, an egalitarian approach to things.
	It's still very much riddled with hypocrisy.
	Sorry, what is you mean?
	My attitude is riddled with hypocrisy and is not egalitarian?
	Yeah, like that tweet you put out.
	You said women, you know, like the suffering, comparing women's suffering to asking a girl out.
	Like, why would you make that comparison?
	Like, men suffer way more different problems when you compare apples to apples.
	You know, it's like that kind of attitude, which a lot of people.
	I don't, I don't understand.
	So why would I say to men, you're not the only sex that has it hard, right?
	I mean, we're fellow slaves in the tax farms of the world as a whole, right?
	So women suffer as well.
	And in some ways, men have a slightly easier deal because you just have to ask a woman out.
	And it's not, you know, perpetual, you know, half a week of significant discomfort every month and menopause, which can be years of like discomfort.
	Hot flash is waking in sweats and tiredness.
	And it's not the pain and discomfort of childbirth.
	You don't get your episiotomy.
	So when they have to cut the vagina in order to let the baby out, which is, you know, horrible and painful and so on, right?
	And there's a lot of health risks that can be involved with pregnancy.
	And so, yeah, women do suffer for the cause of making babies, right?
	And, you know, the kind of, it's a tongue-in-cheek thing.
	And of course, you know, it's a little bit of a joke.
	But in terms of continuing the human race, it starts with a man asking a woman out for the most part.
	And it ends with the woman, you know, screaming out as she gives birth to a baby and hopes that she doesn't end up with any, you know, pelvic floor issues or blood pressure issues or whatever could be going on.
	So do you think it's easier to have a period for 25 years or 30 years or whatever it is, right?
	Do you think it's easier to have a period for 30 years to be pregnant to give birth?
	And breastfeeding can be very difficult and painful for women, right?
	They actually have to wear nipple clamps, not to fundkind, I guess, right?
	They have to wear these sort of plastic nipple shields because sometimes the baby gums at the nipple so hard that the nipple can crack and bleed and you can get infections on the breast because of that.
	And it's really difficult.
	And I've, you know, I knew a woman once who, you know, would spend six hours a day trying to breastfeed her kid to the point where she'd end up just completely hysterical because really, and you're getting up two or three or four times a night to breastfeed.
	I mean, these are all difficult things and dangerous things sometimes in terms of child pregnancy and childbirth.
	I don't know if you've ever talked to women who've had significant health complications coming out of being pregnant and giving birth, but it's not zero for sure.
	And so that's the end product of romantic and relational and sexual activity.
	And the beginning product is a man asking a woman out.
	And it's just a way of saying maybe your fears aren't as big, or maybe you're only focusing on that which is difficult for you and not focusing on that which is also difficult for the woman.
	Right.
	But that's the point.
	That's the criticism.
	Like you're making this.
	I know it's a joke.
	You just explained that as a joke, but like, or somewhat of a joke.
	But what I'm trying to say is like that, the attitude, which is you're being 100% serious about, that is not something that is the criticism.
	So you're not upset at what I said, but like how I said it.
	Is that what you mean?
	I don't know.
	Isn't that particularly female too?
	No.
	It's the attitude.
	Again, what if the attitude is not an argument?
	You can make up anything.
	I could say, well, I'm right because there's a weird ghost in you that makes you wrong.
	You can't just make up this thing called attitude.
	I think that that clinches the argument.
	You actually have to provide me with reason and evidence, bro.
	Sure.
	Okay.
	So again, going back to the reason and evidence, the reason that the thing that you're comparing, you know, women suffering is apples.
	The thing that men, let's just say you're not comparing apples to apples.
	The problems that men have that are lifelong and are infinitely more.
	No, don't say infinitely more.
	Nope.
	That's hyperbole.
	That's absolutely not true.
	There's no, unless bro is eternally a Prometheus bound to a rock, you know, being tortured every day and never dying.
	It's not infinitely like you understand, nobody's going to take you seriously if you start saying things like men's suffering is infinitely worse than women's.
	That's crazy.
	Sorry, that's just not right.
	I was exaggerating, but then don't, because when you exaggerate, I stop taking you seriously.
	Okay.
	But the point is, like, when you compare that to women's suffering, it does seem like that because it is more like men do suffer more from all the problems that they will go ahead with in life.
	And again, to be specific with those problems, besides the deaths, the industrial deaths, the, you know, the deaths during war during, you know, okay, but there hasn't been a war in the West for a long time, right?
	There has.
	I mean, if it depends on your scale, there was one, there were two that virtually crippled the West in all kinds of ways.
	I would argue, because so many men died from that.
	There was such a huge imbalance.
	Sorry, which was you talking about?
	World War I and II.
	And I mean, bro, what did I say?
	Yeah, but specifically, I don't even know if you're listening.
	What did I say?
	You said in the recent years, I said there hasn't been a war for a long time.
	And by that, I don't mean a war like First Gulf War, Afghanistan, Iraq.
	I mean, a war where men get drafted, right?
	Well, there's also Ukraine, you could say, and there's Russia too.
	That's going on.
	And that is certainly true.
	Whether we say Russia is the West is a whole other matter, right?
	But let's talk about the West.
	Okay, hang on.
	Where do you live?
	I live in Canada.
	In Canada, okay.
	So the last time that there was a Canadian draft was World War II.
	Is that right?
	I believe so, yeah.
	I'm not sure if yes.
	Again, and I'm not saying that we shouldn't care.
	I mean, the war that's going on between Russia and Ukraine is appalling and wrong.
	And of course, look, I see the videos too of like the, and I think they're a bit inflammatory, but I'm sure there's some truth in them that, you know, the Ukrainian women are like allowed to leave and can go and party it up in Germany and France and other places while the men are getting slaughtered on the front lines.
	And it's absolutely wretched and appalling.
	And there's an example, of course, where women are suffering far less than men.
	But that's not the context in which I'm talking about.
	The context in which I'm talking about is what all women go through, which is, again, we're talking the period, the childbirth.
	Again, not all women, but most.
	I think 85% of women give birth.
	And all women go through through menopause if they've lived that long.
	So I'm talking about what all women go through.
	And almost all men usually have to go and ask some woman out or some girl out at some point, right?
	So saying, well, there's this localized, horrible war that's affecting men more halfway across the world.
	It's like, well, that's true, but I'm not talking about that.
	I'm talking about the generic or general male and female experience, not a specific war, again, which is horrible and much worse for men that is going on between Russia and Ukraine.
	Well, Stefan, what I'm trying to say is that like you're taking one problem and saying, oh, you know, men have to look at this dying at war thing, and then it never really happens that much.
	And then, you know, you have women every day going through periods and cramps and menstrual whatever and pregnancies, blah, blah, blah.
	They go through that.
	But what I'm trying to say is the sum of all the problems that an average man in the world will face is way more.
	And it can seem infinitely more, but it's not compared to a woman's problems, which are completely natural.
	And if there is any pain or suffering, it's almost like it's planned by themselves, for example, in childbearing.
	So it's like, why would they expect sympathy from me for doing that?
	And they also get a lot of benefits.
	I would say like you're one of the like your ugly tier.
	This is not being scientific or nor mathematical, but it does follow along the numbers.
	So it is a stereotype, which is that like you're the most unattractive women ever will have a or not the most unattractive woman, but a generically unattractive woman in the West, especially, would have an infinitely better life than even one of the probably like your good, an average good-looking dude, you know, and the margin is by far.
	And I've seen that.
	How would you measure the quality of life of an ugly woman compared to a handsome and successful man?
	I'm genuinely curious how you would measure that success or happiness or what?
	So the way I went about, I guess you could say, making a mental model of the whole thing was I would look up studies from different facets.
	Now, I'm not going to look them up.
	Please just give me the, I don't know, did I ask the methodology?
	Just give me the answer, bro.
	You've got to learn to get to the point in things.
	Sure.
	So like, for example, in dating, you know, this is probably where you see it the most.
	And we have actual numbers from, let's say, Tinder or OKCupid data, which shows that, you know, a very unattractive woman will get a lot more interest, like a lot more, let's say, likes or interest than probably even the most attractive man on that app or avenue will get.
	No.
	No, that's just false.
	That's just not good.
	You've gone too far in your argument.
	Because I've seen those pictures.
	I mean, you've seen the memes too, I'm sure, of some good-looking guy who says, well, I just got out of prison For beating up on my girlfriend, beating my girlfriend up, and all the women are just flooding his inbox.
	So, no, the top tier of men get a massive amount of attention.
	And of course, women generally want to settle down and be committed to.
	So, the women who are, let's say, homely, who are used for sex and then discarded, do not end up happier.
	That's a male perspective because men generally are more happy with promiscuity than women are for obvious biological reasons of investment in the young and the number of eggs versus the number of sperm and all that kind of stuff, right?
	So, saying, well, ugly women get laid a lot and therefore they're happier is not understanding female nature.
	That's what I said.
	Well, no, you were talking about Tinder.
	Is Tinder not a hook at all?
	Hang on, hang on.
	No, you did talk about Tinder.
	Isn't Tinder kind of you said they get a lot more attention, but do they get wifed up?
	They don't.
	They generally get used for sex and dumped and moved on.
	Yes.
	And a lot of them are aware of that and take part of it gleefully.
	They don't do it with any sadness or unhappiness on their face.
	The only unhappiness.
	Hang on.
	I really have a tough time taking you seriously when you say that women suffer no unhappiness whatsoever from being pumped and dumped.
	I would say the only unhappiness is if they were promised commitment and then the guy withdraws that commitment and then they feel like they just got stunted out of a deal or something.
	Like I would, I can see why they would be unhappy from that.
	But I would say a lot of them aren't as innocent or as simple like that.
	A lot of them get into these things fully well knowing there's probably not that like Chad is not going to be at the is not going to be taking uh because I know a lot of women.
	I've talked to a lot of them, and I'm also basing this off of a lot of data.
	I mean, and just literal logic, because, you know, you're talking about the top 5% of men.
	You know, unless we bring back polygyny, not every woman is going to get the top 5% of men.
	That's just a fact, right?
	Okay, but you claiming to know the inner state of women who get pumped and dumped is not credible.
	I also very much doubt that a lot of women...
	want to talk to someone who has absolutely zero empathy towards women and reveal their deep dark secrets so i'm just going to call bullshit on that as a whole um so i would say like the this this is a very the the personal background for this whole thing is that i was very i would say you could say blue pill uh i i didn't really care about all this red pill stuff on until i started getting into it which was pre-2016.
	Okay, I'm sorry.
	I've got to keep the show moving.
	I don't have time for your extended resume.
	So I'm just going to ask you one final question, which is this.
	So when I say all we have to do is ask women out, it's a pretty good deal, really, compared to all the suffering that women go through to keep the feces going.
	You said that I was shaming men.
	Why is it making kind of a joke about the different levels of investment that men and women have in reproduction?
	How is that shaming men?
	It's shaming men because it's telling men to sort of give up on their happiness to put their psychological sort of state.
	Sorry, giving men.
	Sorry.
	When I say you're talking that women have to suffer all of this to reproduce, all we have to do is ask women out.
	It's a pretty good deal, really.
	You're saying that I'm asking men to give up on their happiness?
	Help me.
	I don't understand that.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	So, okay, let's talk like when you talk about the actual act of asking a woman out, you're taking on risk as far as it comes to getting rejected, which will most likely happen because, A, you don't know if a person has someone or what their story is.
	Okay.
	So what's wrong with being rejected?
	I don't understand that.
	I think, you know, being rejected is, if I'm not mistaken, it is something that a lot of animals will experience a feeling of.
	Yeah, look, okay, I get that.
	I get that.
	I mean, listen, you're calling me up and publicly saying that I'm hypocritical or bad or taking away men's happiness or shaming them and reversing my anti-feminism.
	So you're calling me up with massively more criticism specific to me on my show in public, which is fine.
	That's totally fine.
	You can do that.
	Just on the show.
	But hang on.
	But it's a little fucking precious to me that then you're like, oh, no, but rejecting and it's so bad.
	It's like, bro, you're calling me out as a hypocrite and somebody who's shaming men and stealing their happiness or whatever it is.
	I mean, that's fine.
	What's wrong with that?
	You're perfectly free to do that.
	Women are perfectly free to say no to you asking them out.
	I welcome the criticism.
	And I don't understand what's so hard about just asking a woman out.
	Yeah, listen, I've asked women out and they said no, and it sucks.
	So.
	And so I would say the biggest point when also when it comes, I mean, not biggest, but second biggest is in this day, in this day and digital, in this day of the digital age, you don't want to be taking on the kind of risk that gets you posted on like some social media site, you know, when you go ask women out.
	This has happened quite a bit to people.
	I mean, no, no.
	No, no, it hasn't.
	I've seen it.
	No, of course you've seen it.
	But that's like saying, well, I read about shark attacks.
	Therefore, a lot of people are getting attacked by sharks.
	No, you're in much more danger driving to the beach than swimming in the ocean, as far as sharks go.
	So the fact that you've seen it, of course, you've seen it.
	And the reason you've seen it is it's unusual.
	So yes, there are a few men who've been blasted unjustly and wrongly on social media.
	They've actually received a lot of sympathy and support for that.
	But it is incredibly rare for a man to be to go viral and be blasted on social media for asking a woman out.
	And if a woman does that, the man receives, at least from what I've seen, receives an awful lot of support from both men and women.
	So what you're talking about is a lightning strike, not the rain.
	Right.
	But what I'm saying is the sum of all these risks, I would say.
	No, you've identified two risks, being rejected and going viral on social media.
	Okay.
	I mean, you could also say like you don't even know who the person is and like, you don't know their character.
	So that's equal for men and women.
	I understand.
	But then why tell men to go out?
	Like it's men asking the women out.
	So women aren't.
	Yeah, the woman has to decide to say yes or no based upon less information than the man has because you've had a chance to check her out, see if you like her, see her laugh, see how she interacts with the barista or whatever, right?
	Whereas you're kind of coming up to her, you'll chat with her for a little bit.
	Maybe you'll ask her for her snap or her number or something like that.
	So the woman is taking a risk as well, right?
	Can you accept that?
	That you could be a bad guy.
	Yeah, like if someone is a bad person and they're masking it, I can see that.
	So you could take a risk of rejection, and the woman could take, is also taking on a risk, which is that you could be a bad guy.
	You could have an STD, you could be a psycho-stalker, or you might just be a guy who's looking to have sex and then move on.
	Or you could be a guy who doesn't have any empathy for women at all, right?
	I suppose, but again, like there are so many cans of worms that could be opened with what you just said that kind of highlight more.
	No, see, you're just not addressing it.
	You're just a yapper.
	You're not addressing any of my issues.
	I'm going to have to move on to another caller.
	I've given it my all, but I'm afraid your verbosity has defeated me.
	So, no, I and listen, bro, you're completely excused from asking women out.
	You are absolutely excused.
	Do not think that me suggesting that men ask women out applies to you at all.
	Because, and ladies, if you ever hear this voice, this is a guy who has openly said he has no empathy for women's suffering or problems whatsoever.
	So you are absolutely everything that I posted about asking women out, you don't have to take it seriously.
	It does not apply to you.
	And I would strongly recommend to not go out with a guy like this as a whole.
	All right.
	Noah, you are, if I touch the right thing, oh my God, this is harder to find than, oh, well, let's not finish that sentence.
	Let me get back here to Mr. Noah.
	Can I touch the right check mark?
	Yes, I can.
	Noah, what is on your mind, my friend?
	Okay, sorry.
	I got the mic on now.
	So that last caller was interesting.
	So I remember in history learning that actually men and women throughout history had a mutual respect for each other based on the sacrifice that men made in battle and that women made through childbirth.
	Going back to ancient Sparta as recently as letters between husbands and wives in the civil war.
	So I think that, yeah, definitely men and women have suffered a great deal throughout history.
	What I do, I guess I might agree with the last caller a little bit is that it's certainly a lot less balanced.
	And yes, in general, men are far less likely to die in war and women are far less likely to die in childbirth.
	But yeah, I mean, the Ukraine war example does kind of get close to home.
	I actually lived in Arkov in 2010.
	My wife's from there.
	And yeah, it's men are getting destroyed by the hundreds of thousands there, while you've seen plenty of nightclubs where all the women are just off partying.
	And even before that war started, Ukraine had one of the lowest birth replacement fertility rates in the world.
	So there does seem to be a bit of an asymmetry because if I were to say that women take their risk through childbirth and men, their job is primarily first to provide security, then resources, because if resources don't matter, if you can't provide security, obviously.
	And we've built probably the safest, most secure, abundant, resource-abundant world that's ever existed.
	And yet the replacement rate isn't there.
	So I don't know.
	What do you think the solution to that is?
	It's a big problem.
	I haven't seen it.
	I'm not noticing it.
	It's not a big problem from a personal standpoint.
	Do you think that the birth rate is going to be improved or not improved if men don't ask women out?
	That would probably be worse.
	Come on, man.
	I'm not sure.
	Don't do that.
	Don't do that.
	Come on.
	I'm not asking you to give up your kidney or your firstborn.
	If men don't ask women out, does the birth rate go up or down?
	Well, to say all things equal, yes, down.
	Okay, right.
	So not asking women out is not a solution.
	I'm curious what your solution is to women not getting married and having kids.
	I'm obviously open to a solution.
	And the solution can't be a wish list that requires a miracle.
	Well, if we just get rid of the Federal Reserve, then everything will be like, well, you're not getting rid of the Federal Reserve.
	At least you and I aren't going to do it.
	I don't know if some asteroid sent by God himself strikes the Fed when it's empty.
	Of course, don't want anyone to get hurt.
	But what is it that a personal action can do to, and it's not really about increasing the bird rate, the birth rate, the bird rate, the bird hand rate.
	And this is the funny thing about the last caller, right?
	So, I mean, I assume he's followed me for a while.
	I don't think I've hid the fact that I'm incredibly happily married to a wonderful woman that I asked out.
	So it has brought me the greatest joy of my life to be a husband, to be a father, and to have a family.
	And I've had, you know, and again, thanks to everyone who supported the show, freedomain.com slash donate, who's given me the incredibly rare historical opportunity to be a stay-at-home father and to translate that into actual parenting advice and philosophy and so on.
	I'm really, it's been an amazing journey.
	So when he says, well, asking women out makes men unhappy, he's so out of emotional contact with the person he's talking to that he doesn't realize that I have repeatedly and publicly for like, I've been married longer than I've been doing the show.
	It's, you know, 23, 23 years.
	And so he doesn't even recognize, he doesn't even recognize that he's telling me that what brought me the greatest happiness is actually what makes men incredibly unhappy.
	Because if you're going to say, well, you know, if you talk to a girl and you ask a girl out, you're going to be super unhappy.
	It's like, well, you're talking to a guy who talked to a girl and asked her out and became super happy.
	He's like, oh, women are so different.
	Women are so different.
	It's like, I get that.
	There's been an ideological divide.
	I get all of that.
	And I've put forward a lot of strategies by which you can vet women to try and have a productive, happy, and healthy relationship.
	I put out the data, which says if you do this, this, this, and this, your chances of divorce drop to 5% or lower.
	At the top end, it's 5%.
	And 5% is pretty good.
	And I've also talked about the benefits of marriage, that men live longer, they're happier, they make more money, more life satisfaction, and all of that, less depression, and so on, and healthier as a whole, not just living longer, but healthier as a whole.
	So I put forward all these benefits, tell people how to minimize risks, and have written entire books about how to relate to people so that you can reduce your chances of divorce and risk and so on.
	And then people are saying, well, the odds are bad.
	It's like, I know.
	I know the odds are bad, which is why I'm giving you all of these tips and tricks so that you can improve and increase your odds.
	It's not like playing the lottery.
	Playing the lottery is passive.
	Finding a good woman for a man is not a passive process, but an active process.
	But it does involve asking your woman out at some point.
	And if men don't want to do that, here's the thing.
	Like if you don't want to do that, that's fine.
	You're not immoral if you don't want to ask a woman out.
	If you just want to not date and, I don't know, do what it's with your life.
	It's a long life to not do anything in particular with.
	But, you know, let's say that you want to blog and play video games and work some and maybe travel some.
	You know, it's not immoral.
	You should never be forced into any kind of dating or romantic situation.
	So you're not initiating the use of force by doing that.
	But if you can have the opportunity to have a good marriage, that is such a massive objective upgrade in the quality and happiness of your life that it's worth thinking about.
	It's worth considering.
	It's worth looking into.
	And it probably is worth trying to pursue to some degree.
	And that's really my case as a whole.
	But sorry, go ahead.
	Oh, well, I definitely, I mean, I'm also happily married, have two sons.
	So I'm thinking more about what it will take to, more about them finding a good wife, not getting screwed over by divorce and that kind of thing as well.
	And yeah, I really don't get the fear of rejection type of thing.
	I would argue that it's good for every man to do some sort of combat sport where you're one-on-one in a ring of some sort, wrestling, judo, boxing, something, at least for a period of your life.
	And also to do some sort of door-to-door sales job where you're just getting rejected over and over and over again.
	And it's, and I think, I don't know, when I was dating, I think the way that I, the reframe I used was, you know, I wasn't, I was just wasn't trying to, not trying to impress, but to sort it.
	And so it's, and, and my, I don't know, because I had done sales, my philosophy was if you want to find a one in 10,000 woman, you probably need to talk to at least 10,000.
	Everything is every, every pickup line isn't to impress them, but it's to learn something about them.
	And what's what's that what's interesting about that is it, well, some girls just think you're nigging them.
	Um, but um at least with my wife, she was impressed by it because it showed that I was interested in a long-term relationship with asking serious questions from the beginning.
	But I don't know, that was kind of a we're a little bit different also because we also were both both got married younger, divorced, and then we're looking to remarriage.
	So we kind of knew what worked, what didn't, what we were looking for.
	And I don't know if I would have even known what questions to ask if I hadn't had the failed marriage to begin with.
	So, but I don't know.
	It's definitely a minefield.
	And if I, if I could, you know, skip the first marriage and go to the second to begin with, I would.
	But yeah, I think it is more, it's increasingly dangerous for men in the dating market, at least with the, you know, after the Me Too movement, there's just a number of legal precedent and such.
	It is not a legal issue to talk to a woman in a coffee shop.
	Why do people keep saying this shit?
	You do not get arrested for saying hi to a woman in a coffee shop.
	Like, where is this coming from?
	Well, you know, but I mean, a lot of people also would mean at work.
	I mean, historically, a lot of people are.
	Okay, if you've got policies, hang on.
	If there are specific policies at work, then you sign a contract and you've agreed to that.
	So don't look for women at work if it's something that is frowned upon.
	It's going to cost you a career.
	But you're still not going to jail.
	HR can't put you in jail.
	No, but look at the recent CEO.
	He got fired.
	A woman who was in HR who didn't follow her own policies.
	I don't want to follow that story unless she probably got released.
	My understanding is she kept her job.
	He got fired.
	So there is an additional asymmetry.
	No, no, no.
	What are you talking about?
	Bro, bro.
	Come on.
	Jesus.
	I'm talking about talking to a woman in a coffee shop and you're saying, well, the CEO who apparently was having an affair.
	No, let me finish.
	Jesus, what the hell has happened to politeness in this world?
	Everybody just starts yelling at me the moment I start talking.
	It's so weird, man.
	I hope you don't do this at home.
	So you're talking about a guy who had an affair with his head of HR and got caught canoodling at a co-play concert.
	Is that right?
	Yeah, that one, yes.
	Okay.
	So what does that have to do with talking to a woman in a coffee shop?
	It's a different situation.
	I agree.
	There's nothing wrong with that.
	And why are you bringing it up?
	Well, there's lots of places where men and women meet, and some are better than others.
	Yes, I have no argument against going to talk to a girl in a coffee shop or just talking to girls in general.
	You and me are in agreement on that.
	But I does me too apply to a coffee shop.
	No.
	No, me too is a woman should not have to sleep with some grizzled old man bugbear producer in order to get a role in a movie.
	Can you and I agree on that, that a woman should not have to have sex with a producer or a director in order to get hired as an actress?
	We can agree on that, but not that that is only what Me Too was.
	You know, there's other people is just a bad date.
	And they got Me Too.
	What was that?
	One comedian.
	Azir or something like that?
	Yeah, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I'm blanking on his name right now, but you know who I'm talking about.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I remember that story vaguely.
	I'm going to do the dangerous live thing and look it up.
	Comedian, Me Too, Indian.
	He was a fan of the.
	I'm sorry.
	And Z is an Sorry.
	And if I recall correctly, she went down on him and then complained that she didn't really want to or something like that.
	Okay.
	So was he fornicating?
	No.
	Well, I think he was, unless he was.
	Oh, okay.
	Yeah.
	I say, define fornicate.
	So.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I guess I'm actually.
	I guess I'm not in.
	Define fornication for me, please.
	I mean, it really is having sex outside of marriage, but I would put it in having sex with women you don't really know very well.
	Okay.
	I mean, in that case, it was oral.
	Yeah, I'm not sure, but okay, sure.
	Yes, it was outside of marriage.
	That is true.
	Um...
	Thank you.
	And I guess also, okay, what about Louis C.K.?
	I mean, that was a weird thing where he was, I guess, self-gratification, but he was in the middle of the day.
	I don't know the details, but wasn't he masturbating in front of women at comedy clubs?
	In his hotel room, after he asked permission.
	Is that what the women say, or is that what he said?
	I believe that's what both said.
	Okay, so he would ask the women, so bizarre, man.
	So he would ask the women, can I masturbate?
	And the women would say, go ahead.
	So he would then masturbate, and then they said that they didn't like it later.
	I believe they said they thought he was joking.
	So there might have been a miscommunication there.
	Okay.
	You have sons, is that right?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	If you have a daughter and some guy says he makes a joke of a sexual manner and then he pulls out his penis and starts whacking off, would you think that would be a positive or negative experience for your daughter?
	If I had a daughter, I'd hope I raise her well enough that she's not going to strange celebrities' hotel rooms at all.
	Okay.
	That's groupy behavior.
	So that would be something that you would have some criticism of your daughter about.
	Is that right?
	If she, yes, I would say that would be unadvisable behavior to go to celebrities' hotel rooms.
	Right.
	Okay.
	So it's not the same as talking to a woman in Starbucks, right?
	No, but I guess my point, my point for all this is that I understand, I guess, maybe a frustration among single men in general where they just decided that juice wasn't worth the squeeze, that they saw this stuff happening.
	And also, I mean, we all know humans aren't necessarily rational creatures.
	So even if there's not a logical connection, you just see all this in the water and it makes you a little bit less likely to less eager to jump in.
	Does that make sense?
	Or is that.
	So the woman teched, this is the Indian comedian.
	The woman laid a text at Sansari expressing her discomfort and he replied with an apology.
	Yeah, that sounds about right, as I remember.
	Okay.
	So she did, she complained about something that he had done sexually and he apologized.
	Now, I assume the apology had something to do with agreeing to some degree with her criticisms of whatever had happened or her discomfort.
	Well, it's polite when if someone says you made them feel uncomfortable to be, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make you feel uncomfortable.
	That seems like a natural, decent thing to do.
	Okay.
	So what can men do to minimize their exposure to these kinds of criticisms from women?
	Don't fornicate outside of marriage.
	Well, or at least know the woman well and have a good relationship with her and make sure that she's into whatever is going on sexually, right?
	Yes, if we kept to more traditional Christian or many other religious moral standards regarding courtship, a lot of this would be these issues would be avoided.
	Yes.
	So I think you and I are in agreement with that.
	The argument, and I think this was a Camille Palia argument from sort of way back in the day, which is don't do things that are obviously going to get you in trouble, even if the other person is completely at fault.
	And so her example, and I apologize, Ms. Paglia, if I get this wrong, because it's been a while, but it goes something like this.
	If you leave your wallet on a park bench all weekend in New York City, in Central Park, you leave it there Friday night, you go back Sunday night, will it be there?
	Probably not.
	Almost certainly not, right?
	Now.
	Yeah, almost certainly, yes.
	Now, did whoever take your wallet do wrong?
	Yeah.
	Sure, because, I mean, let's say they took it, they should have leaved.
	Yeah, They had your ID.
	They could have called you.
	Yeah, they could have called you, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I mean, so whoever took your wallet is in the wrong, but you shouldn't leave your wallet on a park bench in Central Park in New York all weekend.
	In fact, if you said to someone, oh man, I left my wallet in Central Park all weekend.
	I went back a couple of days later, it was gone.
	What would you say?
	I mean, probably deserve that, right?
	Well, deserved or not, you'd say, I don't have a massive amount of sympathy.
	I mean, obviously, whoever took it was wrong, but you can't leave your wallet there and expect it to be there when you get back.
	Like, it's just not going to happen, right?
	So if you date women who have severe personality disorders because they're hot, and a lot of what men are complaining about is not that women won't go out with them, but that the women they want to go out with won't go out with them.
	And that's a whole different matter.
	That falls under the sin of lust, which is to aim too high.
	Like if I said, oh, that, I don't know, who is it who would be attractive for my generation?
	I don't know, Phoebe Cates, you know, in sort of her fast times at Richmond, high red bikini daydream apogee or meridian of attractiveness.
	If I'd have said, you know, all women are trash because Phoebe Cates won't go out with me.
	There was an old joke from Steve Martin about Farrah Fawcett from back in the day.
	You know, Farrah Fawcett has never called me once.
	And after all the times I spent holding up her poster with one hand, you know, it's just pretty funny stuff, right?
	So if men look at the very attractive women and the men themselves are not attractive for whatever reason, right?
	Maybe they lack confidence or height or hair or looks or had a sense of humor, money, whatever it is, right?
	So the men look at the women who are super attractive and feel resentment because those women won't go out with them.
	And I think every man has felt that at some point or another.
	Like, oh, that woman is so attractive.
	Maybe you ask her out.
	Maybe you don't because you think she won't go out with you.
	But, you know, it doesn't work, right?
	And that can be annoying.
	That can be hurtful.
	And you can feel some resentment.
	And, you know, most men, what we do is we start at the top and we work our way down until someone will go out with us, right?
	And a lot of men, it's a humbling process to see where you are in the sexual market value pecking order.
	And a lot of men don't like that process, particularly if they're porn addicts and they have programmed their bodies to only respond to, you know, very, very attractive women as a whole.
	So that process is, it's humbling.
	It's humbling.
	And everyone who's been an artist, you know, you go out and you try and sell your art.
	When I was in my late teens, I wrote a bunch of poetry books and I used one of the first Macs to print them out and I folded them under the corners of couches and I sold them at my university.
	I guess it was like it was I was 20 or something like that.
	And, you know, I published books and tried to sell those and had some success, but obviously not any kind of thing like Stephen King.
	I guess I just don't include too many tween orgies.
	But everybody who goes, I've been out auditioning for acting roles and so on.
	I tried to sell my books to publishers before I did this show.
	And so you face a lot of rejection.
	And finding out where you are in the pecking order is really tough.
	And it's a humbling but necessary experience because if you aim too high, you don't reproduce.
	If you aim too low, you could have done better.
	And so, you know, finding that sweet spot is really tough.
	So I think a lot of times when men feel the humiliation, oh, God, it's so awful.
	It's like being pushed off a cliff if this woman says no to me.
	It's because the woman is trying to inform you of your place in the sexual market value pecking order.
	If you are a five and you keep approaching nines, you ain't going to get it.
	It's not going to work.
	It's not going to work if you're a man.
	And then if the man says, oh, I guess I'm not all I think I am, I guess I'll have to settle for another five.
	And again, I know that the mismatch is that the five can approach the seven or the eight or maybe even the nine.
	And with the subsidy of sex, might have a brief sexual relationship or encounter and it primes her to reject the five.
	I get all of that.
	But you want a woman who's wise, not a woman who's not wise.
	And so it is tough to look and say, I am not all that I think I am.
	Like we're all the star and masters of her own show and mistresses of her own mini-series.
	We're all the star.
	And then, but to someone else, we're just an extra, we're just a Monet thumbprint face in the crowd of the people looking at the horse racing or something.
	And it is, it is humbling.
	And significant humbling can feel humiliating.
	And so, I mean, I went through this, as I've mentioned before, when I got deplatformed five or so years ago.
	I went to these new platforms and like 96, 97% of people didn't follow me.
	Like my views went from like 100,000 a video or more to like a couple of thousand views.
	Now, again, this was on a bunch of different platforms.
	So it wasn't quite that bad, but for a while, it was just a very small number of platforms.
	And that's humbling.
	And reality can be very humbling sometimes.
	And there's nothing wrong with that.
	I mean, because you have to see what is, you know, I mean, I dropped about, I don't know, 30 or 35 pounds from, I don't know, 16, 17 years ago.
	And, you know, when I saw the pictures of me, it was like UPB, universal peanut butter, as my daughter says, like, I was chunky, right?
	And that's humbling.
	And that's actually good to be humbling because it tells you where you are in the pecking order.
	So if you're not getting what you want in life, you have to aim lower.
	You know, everybody would love to be paid a million dollars an hour for playing video games, but sometimes you have to settle for 15 bucks an hour at Arby's because that's What is available and that kind of humbling, I think, is really important.
	And I think a lot of people who get mad about it are resisting that.
	But I really do appreciate your question.
	And I want to congratulate you on your happy marriage and your lovely children.
	I think that's wonderful.
	All right.
	I went outside and smoked myself.
	Jay, you are up, my friend.
	What is on your mind?
	Well, Stefan, it's great to be with you.
	And it's been many, many years.
	And years ago, we're going back to 2017.
	I was a very young man.
	I mean, I was literally a teenager.
	And you and I had a very public debate about the war on drugs.
	And you were right on so many fronts.
	And of course, in terms of rhetorical gymnastics and pure logic, you were totally correct and all the rest.
	And I said, I get all that, Stefan, but I'm seeing it on the ground here in California.
	And the issue isn't any of this as far as morality.
	And what if somebody plants drugs on you?
	And on morally, you know, pure terms, you were totally correct.
	But in terms of the implementation and the consequences that it was leading to early, sadly, now we see it across the country and across the world.
	What happens when you set this drug thing loose in the way that the left instantiates it?
	And maybe there's a better way to do it in terms of how we would do it in a perfect world and all of that and how the Portugal ideal did we lose him?
	You just faded that, bro.
	Hello, hello.
	Oh, good.
	Well, I still have internet.
	I don't know what happened to him.
	All right.
	So, sorry, Jay.
	I'm afraid we've lost you.
	So I'm going to just mention the use of drugs does not violate the non-aggression principle.
	If you get stoned and you don't show up to do your job or your contract, maybe you'd be liable for contract violations and so on.
	I am not a big fan of the legalization of drugs while you still have a welfare state because then people end up subsidizing all of this terrible drug stuff.
	And I think that's pretty bad as a whole.
	It's one thing to legalize drugs.
	It's another thing to legalize drugs and then shield people from the consequences of that legalization, which is pretty bad.
	All right.
	Boycott, you are on the line, my friend.
	Going once, going twice.
	Boycott the woke.
	Hello, hello.
	Oh, hey, what's going on?
	Hey, how's it going?
	So I just want to throw a couple of things out there.
	I'm not going to try and take too much time, but there's definitely, like, I should say, I'm probably one of the most field-tested people probably on this call as far as going out and approaching random women.
	I was actually a dating coach in Chicago, and not by choice, because a lot of people, you know, there used to be the whole pickup artist movement.
	I'm not saying I was a pickup artist, but we did talk about certain things back in the day and have forums and all that.
	And people started emailing me, asking me for advice.
	Eventually, I did this experiment.
	I was like, okay, I'll take a few guys out and see what.
	And I started being very successful as a coach.
	But that all happened because.
	I'm sorry, successful in what?
	What were you trying to achieve as a coach?
	Getting my clients in long-term relationships, marriages, things like that.
	I still have people that I keep in touch with.
	I think I had like a probably over 90% success rate with teaching guys who, I mean, working with one individual that comes to mind had social anxiety to the point where he would go in a room and he would freak out and think he was dying, had to leave the room.
	The military, because he was a vet, told him he had PTSD.
	I worked with him.
	He's now married to a woman that he randomly approached, and they're still married to this day, happy, healthy, growing older together.
	So, I mean, I have a lot of not just go out and get late.
	I think that's that's a means to an end.
	I think the way I always learned it was to see if I could figure out how to go out and meet a woman I could settle down with.
	Unfortunately, in my case, I did have a long-term relationship, a lot of long-term relationships, but I also got a chronic illness that sidelined me.
	I'm still dealing with it in recovery.
	I'm so sorry about that.
	I mean, and if you don't mind sharing, what is the ailment?
	It's called chronic inflammatory response syndrome.
	The irony is I actually had this even while I was out learning to meet women when I was, it's affected me my whole life.
	But at about, I would say, 10 years ago, it just kicked into overdrive and took me off the bench.
	And I would never ever want to have a family in this, you know, with this illness.
	It just, what are the, what is this?
	What are the symptoms?
	It's like being in hell.
	It's, let's see, chronic fatigue, brain fog, you know, causes things like anxiety.
	It can put people in psychosis.
	So basically, what it is, it's a mold illness that people are like most people, you know, you get into a little bit of mold.
	It filters out.
	Your body naturally processes it.
	But some people, they have some sort of genetic problem where we don't cycle it out.
	So it builds up mycotoxins in the body and it really, really can just go to damage.
	It lowers MSH, which is basically like a hormone that controls a lot of the processes in your body.
	So it ruins everything.
	It just, the whole body gets screwed.
	Crazy, crazy symptoms.
	I mean, if you look up CIRS online, it's brutal.
	And a lot of, it's really hard to diagnose.
	I found out mine by accident by living in a moldy apartment that was obviously infested by mold, not just like, you know, sometimes you can't see it, sometimes you can't find it.
	But this apartment was definitely, and it was getting to the point where I felt like I was getting bit by insects.
	Sorry, how old were you when you were living in a moldy apartment?
	So I'm 51 now.
	So this was probably, I want to say about five years ago, six years ago.
	So in other words, I had this thing going on most of my life.
	Sorry, what?
	The chronic inflammatory response syndrome, SERS.
	And I've had it going on before probably it was even considered an illness.
	No, no, but sorry, what's the relationship?
	If it's mold-based, but you didn't live into a moldy apartment.
	And I'm just trying to understand.
	I'm not saying you're wrong or anything.
	I grew up in a moldy home.
	So I grew up in a home that had basically when I was young, it had the cracks in the foundation.
	And I kind of slept on the lower level.
	So if it would rain, it would flood.
	The carpet would get smelly and all this kind of stuff.
	It got really actually bad.
	But back then, doctors would tell you, ah, mold, no big deal.
	As long as it wasn't black mold, right?
	Everybody knows black molds.
	But with this kind of stuff, they basically will just tell you, oh, it's not possible.
	And then a guy called Richie Schumacher came across it by accident.
	He was treating people who were, you know, swimming in swamps and things like that or, you know, stagnant water.
	And then he started figuring out, you know, one thing led to the other.
	And he figured out that this was an actual real illness.
	And a lot of people have been researching it since then.
	And one.
	Sorry.
	So you had it off and on your whole life, but then it really escalated when you were in the moldy apartment in your mid-40s.
	No.
	So here's even in my 30s, I was dealing with just weird episodes of crazy stuff.
	Insomnia is a huge one.
	Just weird brain fog kind of situations, cognitive difficulties.
	So basically, my friends might consider me flaky because I would say, yeah, let's hang out.
	But I didn't know from what day to the next when I was going to feel good.
	So this is in my 30s, starting around 31.
	I can remember this stuff.
	So I might wake up one day and feel okay.
	I might wake up the next day and feel just like I couldn't snap out of the fatigue.
	And how it works is you'll wake up and feel like most people are kind of groggy in the morning when they first wake up.
	And then that kind of goes away over the next hour or two.
	In my case, I'll wake up in the morning and feel a little groggy and it gets worse over the next hour, 45 minutes.
	And if I just try to persist and push through it, it just smashes me.
	Like I have, I'm forced to lay down and close my eyes and just get the horrible feeling out of my head.
	It's just not even a choice.
	I'm so sorry about all that.
	That's just terrible.
	And my sympathies, you know, for those of you who don't have any chronic health issues, and so far I don't, and I'm very pleased about that.
	But yeah, for those of you who don't have chronic health issues, you know, thank your lucky freaking stars every day that you don't, because the quality of life impact is pretty enormous.
	And I just really want to express my sympathy for that.
	So, okay, so if you wanted to finish up with your thoughts about being a dating coach.
	Well, so I want to loop back with that, what you just said.
	And that's why you don't know.
	A lot of people, you guys don't know.
	It's going to hit you one day or it might not.
	So take advantage of your health now when you still have a chance.
	Like get out there.
	Don't be afraid.
	The guy who was talking about, oh, you can get arrested.
	You can get thrown in jail.
	I'll give you one story real quick that comes to mind.
	And I did this on purpose.
	Like we would go out and this was, you know, I was in Chicago.
	I was really well known as a coach back then in Chicago.
	So this is not even just like Hodunk, Iowa.
	This is like, you know, a real, and we used to go around to places.
	And this is when they had the street harassment, hashtag street harassment started becoming a thing.
	And I didn't even know it was a thing back then.
	But the feminists actually had websites and everything.
	This is what you do if you see a street harasser.
	And then it was also, I think, the beginning of like the whole, you know, the white knight movement of the beta males, the coffee shop baristas and all that who want to like, if they saw you hitting on a woman, they were like, oh, you can't do this.
	She's not interested, bro.
	Leave her alone.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	So I went to Trader Joe's one time with my clients, right?
	I had like three or four clients with me.
	And it was a Trader Joe's.
	I'm thinking, okay, grocery store, not that big of a deal.
	And there's usually Trader Joe's, especially in some places, is kind of a hot chick magnet store.
	They love going there.
	So we were in the Trader Joe's.
	And, you know, I wasn't, I'm exactly when I, when I teach approach, I'm like, if they don't, if they're not interested, leave.
	Don't just sit there and try and push through.
	Like, there's so many different women who will show interest.
	You don't need to keep pushing.
	So anyway, in this case, I had some clients in there and I'm just teaching them because they have the same fear.
	This is the fear of, well, this is going to happen.
	I remember having, let me kind of just backtrack.
	I remember having the exact same fear a lot of you guys have.
	I remember when I used to think if I go into this coffee shop and I'm in line and there's a cute woman behind me and I talk to her, people are going to say, you better stop it.
	People are going to yell at me.
	People are going to scream at me.
	And it wasn't until I did it several times.
	I realized nobody gives a shit.
	Nobody cares.
	They don't.
	And here's the thing too.
	Sorry, here's the thing too: is all you're doing is chatting.
	That's all you're doing.
	And you need to, I don't want to step on your toes here because I'm certainly not a dating coach, but my experience has been, I mean, I chat with everybody.
	I mean, there's a reason why I have these conversations.
	I chat with everybody.
	I'm always, I mean, I see somebody in a cost.
	I'm like, hey, what happened?
	You know, like, and I'm always fascinated by what's going on with people's lives.
	And so I'll chat with guys in the lineup to coffee and then I'll chat with women.
	They just get used to chatting with people and you see if the woman is friendly and positive to what you're saying.
	Honestly, it literally is 20 or 30 seconds.
	Make a little joke.
	Say something that's interesting.
	Say, you know, don't have some lame, ooh, do you come here often sort of nonsense like that?
	But just say something and see if she's warm, curious, responsive, whatever it is.
	And it's not, you're not asking her out at that point.
	All you're doing is seeing, does she appreciate conversation?
	Is she willing to chat with you?
	Does she seem relatively warm and friendly?
	That's all.
	And if she's not relatively warm and friendly, you haven't been rejected because you haven't asked her out.
	You're just seeing if there is any, like, I remember being at the gym many years ago and there was a woman reading a book that I really liked.
	And I'm like, oh, I love that book.
	Now, I would have said that to a guy too.
	And I chatted with her and we ended up going out and, you know, and turned out she was married of all things.
	I didn't know that.
	But, but all I'm doing is chatting.
	That's all you're doing is just having a couple of friendly exchanges in the same way that you might while, you know, lining up at the airport or anything like that.
	Just get used to chatting with people.
	It's not a high pressure situation.
	If she's kind of cold or distant or whatever it is, I mean, it's not rejecting you because you're not asking her out yet.
	All you're doing is seeing, is she interested in the conversation?
	That's all.
	Yeah.
	And actually, that's exactly one of the things I learned in what I taught is go back.
	I mean, just talk to everybody.
	That's one of the key things.
	If you learn to talk to everybody, it doesn't become weird when you just talk to the random woman.
	As a matter of fact, I believe, I don't know if there's science behind this or not, but I believe if you talk to people all the time and you become that guy who's naturally, you know, gregarious and chatty and talkative, that it will somehow, when you look, when you do decide, oh, there's a cute girl, I'm going to talk to her.
	You're going to put off that vibe.
	Somehow, it's going to come across to her that this is just who you are.
	It's not some random, creepy guy who only goes out and just talks to women.
	So that's a huge one.
	But so, going back to the story, so we're at Trader Joe's, and this is in Chicago.
	And for some reason, there was a guy or maybe the manager or something.
	I wasn't even there talking to girls, right?
	I was actually just there watching my students, making sure they were kind of applying the lessons that we were talking about and getting a few approaches.
	And it's not like we were there for more than 15 minutes.
	It was like maybe 15 minutes.
	We weren't going to sit there for hours and just like, you know, what we call burn the room.
	You don't burn the room.
	You kind of go into a place, you kind of feel it out, you know, right?
	So basically, the manager came up to me or somebody came up to me and said, you guys got to leave right now.
	And I was like, well, what's happening?
	They're like, you can't come in here and talk to women.
	And so I was like, oh, okay.
	I don't, I was like, I don't, I don't, I wasn't talking to women.
	They're like, yes, you were something like that.
	I don't remember why I did this.
	But basically, I went up to the manager and I said, so what's the problem?
	And he's like, well, you guys got to go.
	We're going to call the police.
	And I didn't even, so I wasn't even escalating or trying to like, you know, cause a problem.
	I was just curious.
	And he immediately went all the way to, we're going to call the police.
	No, hang on.
	Just so everyone recognizes that if you call the police and you say this guy was talking to a customer, the police are going to laugh at you.
	What he meant was, if you don't leave my establishment when I tell you to, you're trespassing and I'll have the police remove you, but it's not for talking to girls.
	I just don't want people to get this impression.
	So I understand.
	And so this is, but you're going to, the funny thing is it's sort of foreshadowed.
	But so, but with my clients, I can't leave them thinking what you did is wrong.
	So I actually said, Can you do me a favor?
	Yeah, please call the police.
	Right.
	One, and he did.
	He called the police.
	We went outside.
	I said, okay, we got to go outside.
	And I decided, I know this sounds crazy, but we waited for the police to show up.
	And as soon as the police car came up, I walked up to the police window.
	I said, I am the guy they're calling about.
	And we had a conversation for about three minutes to four minutes.
	And I was talking to the police.
	And I said, Yeah, we're the cops literally at some point said, You know, they're right.
	You know, I'm glad that you guys left the store.
	They can, you know, obviously any business can refuse you service.
	But, you know, if we were off the clock, we would be out trying to get women too, right?
	And they, and we started laughing about it openly.
	And the funny thing is, there was a guy, like the guy who called the police or one of the store workers, as soon as he saw the police come up and pull up, he was pointing at me through the window and he pointed to the police and he made this like face, like, oh, you're in trouble now.
	And the cops, like a couple of minutes later, the cops are laughing with us.
	So it was like my students learned that day, yeah, it's not.
	You're not going to jail for saying hi.
	Hey, I think you're, you know, attractive, or not even that.
	That's a lame pickup line.
	I would never use that.
	But you're not going to go to jail for talking to women.
	It's just not going to happen.
	No, I remember when I used to live at Dalmills.
	Sorry, Lawrence and Lawrence and Young and sorry, Young and Eglinton.
	I lived at a bunch of different places.
	Young and Eglinton was also known as young and eligible.
	And I was picking up some Thai food and there was a woman sitting there alone.
	And I was like, hey, you're eating alone.
	I'm eating alone.
	Do you want to eat alone together?
	And, you know, we ended up dating for a while and a very, very nice woman.
	And nothing, you know, it's, it is a benevolent universe hypothesis, right?
	So the universe tends to show up.
	And this sounds kind of mystical.
	I don't mean it that way at all.
	But the universe tends to show up as you picture it.
	And so if you're depressed, you're going to be around a lot of depressed people and the world is going to seem depressing.
	If you're enthusiastic and energetic, you're going to be around enthusiastic, energetic people, and the world is going to seem full of possibilities and opportunities.
	If you're friendly, the world generally is friendly back.
	If you are suspicious and oh, women don't understand men's suffering and we only suffer and women are all blah, blah, blah, right?
	Then talking to women, they're going to pick up on that and they're going to be unfriendly.
	And it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
	Now, this isn't, of course, 100%, but in general, you know, when Lauren and Sutherland and I were out doing our speaking tour in Australia, then there were a bunch of people, obviously, who were angry or upset about the lies that had been told about us.
	And we took out, it was raining and we took out umbrellas and we gave them umbrellas because they were wet.
	We talked to them for a while and, you know, it's fine.
	It's fine.
	So for again, there's exceptions to this, right?
	But in general, if you approach the world as if it's friendly, the world tends to be friendly.
	If you approach the world as if it's hostile, the world tends to be hostile.
	It's a sad fact of life.
	It's a very powerful fact of life that you invite the world into you mirroring your expectations.
	So I grew up, of course, you know, who cares about my distant trials and poverties as a child.
	It's like a long time ago now.
	But when I was a kid, you know, broke family, crazy mom, all kinds of nonsense, right?
	And I remember, you know, first calculating the year 2000.
	I said, ah, year 2000, year 2000, gonna be 34 years old.
	I wonder what my life's gonna be like.
	And I pictured myself living in a cool place with a nice job in an office where I dressed up and did something important.
	I mean, that's what I always pictured.
	Always pictured that.
	When I first started this show, I'm like, I'm gonna make this the greatest philosophy conversation the world has ever seen.
	And again, that's mostly to do with the technology, with the little sprinkling of the stuff that I'm doing and the stuff that you guys are doing in the audience.
	And your expectations shape your future a lot more than you think.
	And to adjust your future is really to adjust your expectations of the future Because so much energy gets liberated when you view the world as a friendly, positive place.
	It's unrecognizable.
	You know, it's like that meme of the guy, there's two guys on the train.
	One guy's looking at the sad stuff.
	The other guy's looking at the happy stuff.
	That is, that is the way that it is.
	I knew a couple of really functional families when I was a kid, and I didn't resent them.
	I didn't think it was impossible.
	I didn't think it was fake.
	I was like, that's what I want.
	That's what I want.
	I remember being driven out into the rain when my mother was having one of her incredible conniption fits.
	I've just left and I had no money and I had nowhere to go.
	And I ended up walking through the woods, like out back at the Donalds High School.
	There's a path.
	I used to deliver newspapers back there.
	And there's a path that goes into a sort of ravine and the river and all of that.
	And I was, I remember walking there, you know, wet, drizzled.
	I don't know.
	I was like maybe 13 years old, 12 or 13 years old.
	And I remember stopping at a Chainlink fence because people have their view of the ravine.
	And there was a family, a big, big window.
	A family, I was looking inside.
	They were laughing and joking.
	And, you know, the dad was pouring pop for the kids and so on.
	And I was like, damn, that's nice.
	Now, it's not the most elevated thing to be out there cold and wet and bedraggled in the rain, looking at a happy family on the other side of Chain Link, a garden, the window itself.
	And I wasn't like, oh, you know, that's so, those jerks.
	You know, I was like, damn, that's possible.
	That's what I want.
	That's what I need.
	And I always wanted my life to mean something.
	And I always wanted to be able to do good in the world.
	And I always wanted to bring as much positivity, truth, reason, and happiness as I could to the world.
	And that opens up possibilities within your mind.
	If you don't think you can do something, that ability is functionally non-existent.
	Like, let's say I had the most glorious singing voice known to man, but I decided never to sing.
	My singing ability is functionally non-existent.
	And it takes a lot of vanity to think that you know what you're capable of doing.
	And so I've always said, I have no idea what I'm capable of doing.
	I'm just going to keep doing stuff until I hit some kind of limit.
	And of course, I have hit the limit.
	Yeah.
	So aim high, be positive, be enthusiastic, be friendly.
	The worst case scenario is you bring some friendliness and positivity to people that you meet.
	And, you know, my daughter appreciates it now.
	She went through a little bit of cringe time in sort of early mid-teens, which is sort of natural when I'm sort of chatting with people.
	Like I met up with a listener for dinner the other night, and we went to a Greek restaurant.
	And my wife is Greek, as I'm sure you know.
	And Greeks are all about, you know, hosting and food and having enough food out.
	Like when people come over, basically my wife cleans out the local, not even just one, the local grocery store.
	So to make sure that there's enough food to feed both the guests and the potential invading alien army with infinite stomachs.
	And anyway, so we were at the Greek restaurant and the waitress came up and she said, I'm afraid we're out of potatoes.
	And I'm like, oh, you know what?
	My wife's Greek.
	I'm going to tell her and she's going to tell your mother that you don't have food for us.
	Right.
	And it was just a sort of an in-joke about the Greek thing.
	And she played along with it and it was very funny.
	And, you know, is that going to make her life infinitely better?
	Of course not.
	But is it a nice little fun thing?
	Because we were there kind of late and she'd obviously had a long day.
	And is it okay to give people a little bit of a laugh and a little bit of a smile when you meet them?
	And I think in general, if you can leave people 1% happier from having introduced themselves to you and you get used to that, then you're just a value-adding kind of guy.
	And it's a whole lot easier to talk to women and everyone.
	Absolutely.
	And let me just say a couple of quick other points.
	For the guys who are afraid, oh, if I go talk to women, they're going to, you know, you're, they hate you.
	They're going to yell at you.
	They're going to scream at you.
	Me and a lot of people I know who were super social would go out and we actually learned it's about 10 to 20, 10 to 20 women that you talk to are going to be, I mean, uninterested or they'll maybe laugh.
	They'll flirt with you.
	Some are interested.
	It's about one out of 10 to 20 somewhere in there that are going to be the people who yell and scream at you and freak out and they think they're normal, but they're not.
	They're the vast minority.
	And then the second thing I want to say is there's the whole red pill thing about, bro, just work on yourself, go to the gym.
	I heard the other guys say that.
	Go to the gym, get your job straight, make a lot of money.
	I mean, yes, that's all important, but do that for you.
	Don't do that for women.
	And then the reasoning behind that is, I mean, I can tell you straight up, I'm like five foot 10.
	I've always been chubby, average looks.
	And I was doing a lot.
	Some of the clients that came to me were model good looking.
	They were like one guy called him Captain America.
	He was an airline pilot.
	He was built like he did the perfect diet.
	He was ripped.
	He like had great looks.
	And this guy was still like, I don't, you know, he was a virgin when he came to me and he was in his mid-20s.
	I'm like, how?
	How?
	If I had your looks, dude, I would be like knocking them away.
	You don't know.
	You don't know that.
	You don't know.
	I know, I know, but I'm just using an example.
	Example.
	So none of that stuff.
	Dude, just get out there and stop letting the fear, the chat in your head.
	If you guys ever see the movie Revolver by Guy Ritchie, I highly recommend it.
	I don't know if you guys have ever seen it.
	All right.
	Listen, I appreciate your comments.
	And I'm very sorry.
	I hope that you find something to resolve these health issues.
	I really am sorry for all of that.
	That is very, very tough.
	And again, you know, you don't want to end your life if you get sick later in your life.
	And in general, you do, right?
	I mean, most people take quite a long time to die.
	You don't want to look back and say, damn, I didn't appreciate what I had when I had it.
	All right.
	So, Kino Man, Kino Man, or Kino Man, what is on your mind?
	Hi.
	I was wondering if you could help me illuminate some maybe bad mental schema and pathologies going on.
	It's the way I view the world.
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	Well, I kind of did a number on myself.
	I don't really know where to start without going into crazy Context.
	Well, what is the major issue that you're stuck with at the moment?
	I'm 34, and I'm worried I'm going to be alone forever.
	And I don't have a lot of key areas of my life sorted out.
	What is your dating situation in history?
	Dated high school, college, on and off, casual stuff through my 20s.
	Why casual?
	Did you not meet any woman that you really liked?
	I was in a big city.
	I was doing the apps, and it just became clear after a short amount of time that these weren't people to be taking seriously.
	If I was interested, they weren't interested, or vice versa.
	What were you looking for?
	What were you basing your standards on?
	Well, in my 20s, I just wanted, I was just trying to date.
	I didn't really know.
	I wanted to make art.
	I didn't really care about a family at that point.
	Uh, my question.
	So what did you saw?
	I'm sorry to be interrupting.
	What, Were you just looking for looks in general?
	That's what young men tend to do.
	Yeah, looks and also like similar interests.
	Interests.
	What about values, morals?
	Not, I guess, you know, not totally divergent, but I wasn't really thinking about family, so I'm much more focused on that now.
	Okay, so if you weren't thinking about family, what were you dating for?
	Not criticism.
	I'm just curious.
	What were you dating for?
	Companionship and just to keep dating and maybe find someone.
	I mean, it's always in the back of my head.
	No, no.
	Companionship you can get from a dog or a social club.
	What were you dating for?
	I mean, if you're trying to point towards sex, I could say that.
	But I was like looking for a girlfriend, like to have a relationship.
	Okay.
	And how many women did you date in your teens and 20s?
	Be like 13 or something?
	Okay.
	And so.
	Two real, well, really only two relationships, high school and college.
	Okay, two relationships.
	And how long were the 11 that you dated that weren't those?
	Be like a month or two here and there.
	Maybe some of them.
	Well, there was one that was kind of like eight months on and off.
	Okay.
	And it's the 13, is that the body count or is that just the dating?
	We could say, do we have to, do you want me to be explicit there?
	You don't talk about anything you're not comfortable with.
	If you're okay to share it, you're anonymous.
	It's up to you.
	Yeah, I mean, that's a ballpark.
	You could say that.
	A dozen dozen or so, right?
	Yeah.
	And you're 34 now.
	When was your last relationship?
	On and off for eight months this past year.
	What do you mean on and off?
	Why?
	There was like a month break, month or two break.
	Based on what?
	Based on my not wanting to commit or waste your time because I didn't see it going anywhere.
	So I kept trying to give it a shot to see if it would be something I would sort of sweeten up to.
	And what was missing or extra in the woman that you didn't want to have a longer-term relationship or, you know, by mid-30s, you should know what the hell you're looking for and get married.
	So what was it?
	What was missing or extra in her that you didn't want to get married?
	I think values, a lot of values didn't align.
	It didn't feel like...
	What were her values that you disagreed with?
	She just came from a more liberal family.
	Okay, so she was a leftist.
	Not necessarily, though.
	She had that background, but she also listened to, was aware of right-wing discourse.
	What were her values that you didn't agree with?
	Came from a leftist family or liberal family is not a value.
	What were the values she had that you disagreed with?
	I don't know if I can say that specifically, but my thought was like, I wouldn't want my kids to be raised by like her family.
	I wouldn't want my kid to be impressioned by the people that she surrounded herself with.
	So you broke up with her because her family was liberal?
	There was like, I guess you could say superficial reasons too, where I wasn't exactly as physically attracted to her.
	Well, of course you were because you're in your mid-30s.
	Yeah.
	Sorry.
	So of course you weren't.
	Because you can't compare the women you date in your mid-30s to the women you date in your early 20s because they're older.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	So what was wrong with her physically?
	Just not my type, like tattoo.
	Oh, come on, guy.
	Guy, just give me that.
	Give me specifics.
	Piercings.
	No, give me specifics.
	What was wrong with her physically for you?
	Tattoos, piercings, ethnicity, not preference.
	What ethnicity was she that you didn't like?
	I don't want to say.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So why were you dating someone with tattoos and piercing in an ethnicity that you didn't want to date?
	It wasn't that I didn't want to date her off the bat.
	I thought we had a lot in common, but and I wanted to see if spending time with someone who I did have a lot of common in common with and did enjoy many aspects of the relationship.
	I was hoping to sort of be one over, I guess.
	I don't know, because I also, I hadn't really tried long-term dating for a while.
	So you said you had two longer relationships.
	When was the last one prior to this eight month off and on one?
	Like a long time, like 10 years prior or something like that.
	Oh, so for 10 years, you were just having short-term relationships or one-night stands or something like that, right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, I went through dry spells too.
	Or there's years where you're not doing anything.
	But, you know, not a stranger to monk mode.
	So, yeah.
	There's, you know, part of me wonders, will I regret splitting up with this last girl?
	Or would that maybe 10 years down the line?
	That's the best I could do.
	But there's also things that I wasn't crazy about where I do feel that I made the right decision.
	Okay.
	And what sort of professional career success or not success are you going through right now in your mid-30s?
	During COVID, I made a transition to basically tripled what I was making.
	So I'm making low six figures, but it's low end for where I live.
	Where I live, low end.
	Hang on.
	So if that's triple.
	So let's say I was making 120.
	So you were making, hang on.
	You were making like 40 throughout your 20s.
	And then COVID, you went to 120.
	Yeah, maybe, maybe less, a little less in my 20s.
	I was.
	What the hell were you doing in your 20s that you were making so little?
	Production assistant, manual labor on film crews.
	Okay.
	All right.
	And do you have any friends who have successful marriages?
	No, that's the thing I'm aware.
	You know, I don't have people in my community that I can sort of model.
	Did your parents have a successful marriage?
	They're still married, but that's something that is debatable.
	I think there's a lot of problems, and I don't really want my marriage to be what their marriage is.
	What kind of training or coaching or instruction did you get from your father about how to choose a quality woman or your mother about what a quality woman is or what she looks like?
	And we don't have to be perfect, obviously, to give our kids to be aware of that.
	Pretty much zero.
	Yeah, pretty much none.
	Okay.
	And did they give you instruction on other things in life?
	I mean, can you think of something that your parents said over the course of your childhood that you still find wise, valuable, and of use today?
	I mean, they are more conservative.
	They're a little older compared to peers my age.
	And I do appreciate their religious values, but I can't think of one thing in particular.
	Do you have siblings?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	And how invested were your parents in the moral and intellectual development of you and your siblings?
	I think they cared, but there's a lot of sort of discord in the family and probably poor communication.
	The two siblings kind of like left, moved far away.
	There's not a lot of good.
	It's not like no contact, but it is almost like it's like.
	Okay.
	Did you get the sense when you were a kid that your parents enjoyed your company, relished your company, looked forward to spending time with you?
	When I was younger, I have better memories, but then as I got older, it was kind of like I couldn't wait to get out of the house and even hear things like from my mom, like, I can't wait till you get out of the house and that kind of thing.
	Sorry, from what age was your mother desperate for you to go?
	I don't know.
	It might even probably as soon as I started becoming difficult, like teens and we can go down that road.
	I know that's what you sort of, a lot of your, your core tenants are about abuse and stuff.
	Okay.
	Well, how were you punished as a child if you were punished?
	I mean, I did get physical punishment from both parents.
	I'm not sure what that means.
	Like spanking and hitting.
	Okay, spanking and hitting.
	You mean hitting with implements?
	With, yeah, like wooden spoon, one-time high heel sticks out in my mind.
	Well, those are called beatings.
	And I'm really sorry for that.
	It's just appalling.
	And how often would you receive these kinds of attacks or spankings or assaults?
	I mean, enough that I lost track.
	Don't chuckle, bro.
	I'm so sorry.
	Like, I hate to be that nag, but please don't chuckle about this.
	This is appalling stuff.
	Okay, so would you say once a week, once a month, less more?
	I mean, it probably could have been more frequent than once a week.
	Okay, so let's say twice a week.
	Do you remember a time before, and at what age did it stop?
	A time before.
	Like, there was a time before you were being beaten or hit.
	Or was it from like the beginning?
	It was probably like as soon as it was acceptable, like you weren't damaging.
	I need you to not smile about this stuff.
	I know it's tempting.
	I really do.
	Yeah, don't be a nag, but just do your best, okay?
	Yeah, yeah.
	I mean, probably as soon as it was doable without being like totally atrocious.
	Okay, and what age did it end?
	I know it generally peters awful, but at what age did it end?
	Let's see.
	Probably like late tweens, maybe cusp of teen years.
	It sort of petered off.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Okay.
	And I'm the oldest.
	I don't think the younger ones really got it as much.
	Okay, so a little under twice a week.
	That's a hundred times a year, two to twelve.
	That's a thousand assaults, spankings, beatings.
	A thousand assaults, spankings, beatings.
	And spanking is just a different kind of assault.
	I'm so sorry, man.
	A thousand beatings and spankings.
	Yeah, it seemed like, I don't know, I'll go with the number, but it seemed like the go-to thing.
	Well, what do you, I mean, hang on.
	I'm not sure I'm connecting with any of your emotions here.
	Sorry, again, sorry to be a nag, but I mean, when I say that, a thousand, I mean, that would be physical assault in the adult world, right?
	You can't discipline your employees by spanking them or hitting them with wooden spoons or high heels, as you mentioned once.
	So, I mean, what do you think if you think about a child who was attacked in that way a thousand times?
	I think I definitely found, well, it definitely hindered our relationship and trust.
	No, no, I don't want your intellectual analysis, if you don't mind.
	What are your feelings?
	I mean, have you ever, I mean, if you were at a park, just driving past or walking past, and you saw a mother beating a helpless crying, trying to shield his face, little boy, with a wooden spoon, what would you think?
	I think that's not good and it needs to stop.
	And what would you feel?
	I guess sad or angry?
	You guess?
	It's hard.
	You know, maybe you're pointing out that I have it's hard for me to put to words these emotions.
	Would you want to stop her?
	Yeah.
	Would you call the cops?
	I guess so.
	Yeah.
	I don't know what I've never been in that situation.
	What should you do?
	I don't know.
	I mean, I would certainly try to stop it.
	I mean, obviously, I'd try and stop it as peacefully as possible.
	definitely if there was a cop there I'd say you've got to stop this man because this woman is beating her child you you Thank you.
	Yeah, there's part of you that just wants to rush in and physically stop them right away.
	Yeah, and listen, I can't speak to the legality of that.
	I know that if you see somebody assaulting someone else, my understanding is that you can aid in the self-defense of the victim.
	And so don't take anything that I'm saying here as any kind of advice on what you should physically do in those situations.
	I would certainly try and get a security guard or help or say to the person I'm calling the cops.
	And if the cops come and find that nothing wrong has been done, then, you know, no harm, no foul.
	But so, yeah, don't take any advice from me.
	I'm no lawyer.
	And of course, I don't even know where you live.
	So just want to be clear about that.
	But certainly my impulse is to throw myself between the person who is attacking the child.
	And I have certainly verbally interfered or interceded on behalf of the child when I see aggression against children in public.
	And it's obviously not a fun situation, but it's a bit honor bound and duty bound to get it done.
	Okay, so what has your relationship with your parents and your sibling, you said, is very distant at the moment?
	Yeah.
	Two siblings left the state.
	We're not on my siblings, we're not on bad terms or anything, but we're just not super close.
	My parents also.
	How often do you talk to your siblings?
	And there's no right answer.
	I'm just curious.
	One of them, with the bigger age gap, it's she called me this weekend, but I mean, there could be months where we don't talk.
	And I think it's like that with her and everyone in the family.
	And what about your parents, you and your parents?
	If I'm going through a hard time, I'll call them somewhat frequently, but now, maybe once a week, just check in.
	And have your parents noticed, of course, that you're not settling down, not having any long-term dating, and certainly not getting married?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Then that is, you know, the age is getting up.
	They sort of bring up.
	They know I'm not crazy about my work, which I think is a big, you know, the way you spend the majority of your time, I think, affects your mental state.
	So it ties into that.
	Not as naggy as you hear.
	No, I don't want them to nag, but just have they have they been at all self-critical about their parenting?
	I mean, what about your siblings?
	Are they doing settling into happy marriages and becoming happy and productive parents or what's happening with them?
	Well, one thing I really have I've tried to bring up with my mom is the youngest, I tries to reveal genders.
	I don't know, privacy here.
	And so the youngest is what?
	I don't know if I should reveal genders on a public forum, but I guess I've been anonymous enough that I kind of need to address the topic.
	Do you advise anything on that?
	No, you can keep the gender off.
	That's fine.
	Well, one of them's married and has kids, and the other one is not doing so well.
	And I feel like my parents, my mom specifically, could have helped.
	Okay, so one of your siblings is married and has kids, and how's that marriage and the parenting going?
	I think my sister realizes that she shares some of the pathologies my mom has and is actively working on keeping that in check.
	But it seems good nonetheless.
	She's very conscious of boundaries with my parents.
	Okay, so she's got some criticisms of your parents and she's fighting your mother's tendency to be violent.
	Is that right?
	Yeah, I don't think she's actually struggled with being violent herself, but other sort of other negative parenting tendencies.
	Toxic pathologies.
	And has your parents, has your family ever sat down and talked frankly about the pluses and minuses that were going on with you guys as kids?
	Not collectively.
	I think my sister has brought it up in terms of their role as grandparents.
	She's had to.
	Oh, she's saying, like, as grandparents, I don't want you to behave as you did as parents.
	I don't want to be around negative behaviors and dynamics that are still going on to this day.
	I don't want the kids exposed to that.
	Oh, so she's not having her kids around your parents.
	Is that right?
	Limiting.
	Limiting her power.
	And so your mother, as you said, when you started getting difficult.
	So parents often call kids difficult when they're no longer beating them in that they don't have that same weapon to use to attack the kids.
	So then they just start calling the kids difficult.
	You switched from physical abuse to verbal abuse.
	And would you say that it was sort of early to mid-teens that your mother began expressing a desire to get you out of the house or was it later?
	Early to mid, but definitely like as I approached college age, it was like, I can't wait till you get out of here.
	I can't say when it started though.
	Roughly?
	Anything?
	Probably high school.
	I mean, definitely at some point in high school.
	High school is a three or four year gap, right?
	A span, early or late?
	15, 16, 17?
	We could just say 15, maybe started, maybe earlier.
	Okay.
	And what do you think of a parent who is involved in hitting a child a thousand times and then insisting that she's going to be overjoyed when you leave?
	Not great.
	I mean, you can't expect a great relationship from that.
	I have a lot of thoughts about what's going on with her and what's going on between me and is she right about you in terms of your being annoying, not of value, not listening, disrespectful, worthy of beatings.
	I mean, is she right about you in terms of how she viewed you?
	No, because you're still a kid at that age.
	You haven't even established yourself in the world.
	But at that age, you think that, yes, maybe.
	Well, you have to agree with them when you're kids.
	Because if your parents put you in a particular box and you try and get out of the box, well, those of our ancestors, those kids who refused to go along with the parents' slander of their personality, survived less than those who were just like, yep, I guess that's who I am.
	I guess I'm difficult.
	I guess I'm bad.
	You just go along with it because the punishments of abandonment or not getting food or not being protected or whatever it is too high, right?
	Too dangerous.
	Too dangerous to disagree with abusive parents or neglectful parents.
	Yeah, it makes sense.
	And you said you call them a couple of times a week now, right?
	Maybe once a week.
	It depends.
	Maybe there'll be a week without it.
	Oh, you said if you're going through a tough time, there's more of that, right?
	Yeah.
	Okay, so what's your favorite female name?
	Female name?
	Like for a kid?
	No, for you.
	Like when you slip into something a little more comfortable when you're at home alone.
	No, I'm kidding.
	So, you know, if you could make up a name for a woman you would get married to, you'd use it all the time.
	What's your favorite female name?
	Oh, I don't know.
	Let's just, that's not my favorite.
	Let's just say Jane.
	Jane?
	Sorry, did you say Jane?
	Jane, yeah, yeah.
	Yeah, okay, that's fine.
	Okay, so let's say that you meet Jane and Jane is energetic and positive and enthusiastic and moral and she's dealt with all the childhood shit and all that kind of stuff and she has been honest with her family and they've improved to some degree or whatever it is, right?
	To a large degree.
	And she comes along and she hears and she really falls in love with you, man.
	She just cheats head over heels with you.
	She thinks you're the greatest thing since sliced bread.
	And she then finds out about how your parents treated you when you were a helpless and dependent little boy, right?
	That they beat you or hit you or spanked you a thousand times, that your mother was praying on her knees for God to take you out of her environment as soon as possible.
	And they've kind of let you rotten fester in a go-nowhere dating market for 15 plus years.
	What is she going to think of them?
	Not good.
	She's definitely going to think what was going on there.
	That's a question.
	What is she going to think of them?
	Not questions might she ask rhetorically.
	What is she going to think of them?
	Who did the greatest damage to the man she loves of any two people in your life?
	She's not going to like them.
	She's going to think they're bad parents.
	Yeah, she's going to hate them.
	I mean, if you love a woman, can you love a guy who beats her up?
	Yeah, yeah.
	What if Jane's parents beat her with a wooden spoon hundreds of times?
	My sister's husband isn't exactly crazy about.
	Okay, answer my question, though.
	You love Jane.
	She's a wonderful woman.
	You find out her parents hit her repeatedly, dozens or hundreds of times with a wooden spoon, hit her with a high-heeled shoe, spanked her, and then was saying, I can't wait till you're fucking gone, kid.
	I wouldn't be a fan of them.
	I'm not being so anemic about it all.
	This is a woman you love.
	These are the people who beat her.
	Well, I'm just comparing it to my situation.
	No, no, this is a theoretical about Jane, the woman you love, and the adults who beat her when she was a helpless, independent little girl.
	What do you think of them?
	I think they're sick.
	There's something wrong with them.
	They're not sick.
	No, they're not sick.
	They don't have asthma or anemia.
	They're not sick.
	There's some sort of mental parasite in their minds.
	No, they don't have a mental parasite.
	That made them think that was the mental health.
	They're not possessed.
	They don't have a mental parasite.
	What do you think of them?
	I guess I wouldn't like them.
	I don't know.
	How would you judge them morally?
	I...
	Thank you.
	I think they made some immoral choices in the way they raised their kid.
	Well, this is why you can't fall in love, bro.
	I hate to be blunt, but this is why you can't fall in love because you need moral passion to fall in love because we love people for their virtues.
	And if we can't even identify and condemn evil, how can we love the good?
	How can we love what is virtuous?
	You're like a doctor who wants to be a good doctor, but doesn't have a fucking clue what illness is.
	You can't be a good doctor if you can't identify illness.
	Is that fair to say?
	Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
	So people who beat children and say how happy they're going to be and overjoyed they're going to be when they get the fuck out of the house are evil.
	That's evil.
	I don't mean it's irredeemable evil.
	You can talk to them and hopefully work it out.
	Would you, if you have treasured children that you love and there's a babysitter who says, if those kids put one fucking foot wrong, I'm going to beat them with a spoon, would you say, great, here's your 20 bucks?
	Yes.
	No, no.
	So why are your children so worthy of protection but you're not?
	Why would you never accept that behavior from your parents towards your children but you're still calling them every week and not talking about this?
	Because you agree with them that somehow you're at fault and I can hear this weight in your voice.
	I really can.
	And you'll hear it when you listen back to the recording.
	I can hear the weight in your voice like, I'm just, you know, I have this and I have that.
	And it's emptied out.
	It's hollow.
	It's down.
	And I'm trying to shock you back into some kind of moral awareness here.
	Well, I think about the ways they provided in other ways.
	Like they didn't abandon me to an orphanage or something or, you know, sell me to sex slavery or something like that.
	So when you're doing the hypothetical with Jane, it's like, well, she still has, I'm comparing it to myself, she still has somewhat of a relationship with them.
	So there must have been some redeeming quality.
	Not if they don't admit to the wrongs they did.
	Listen, you don't get paroled out of prison if you deny your crimes.
	So Jane is certainly welcome to have a relationship with her parents, but they have to admit to the evils that they did.
	They have to admit that the wrongs that they did.
	They have to apologize.
	They have to make restitution.
	They have to take some sort of therapy or some sort of anger management so that they deal with this stuff.
	Why would you want unrepentant child abusers in your life?
	Give them the opportunity to repent.
	You're withholding from them the opportunity to repent.
	That's cruel.
	You're hiding from them the effects that they had upon you in terms of hollowing out your sense of self-respect, making you feel like a burden, like a bad kid.
	So your parents had a lot to do with taking hammer blows, not through the spoon to your body, but the hammer of contempt and violence and hostility to your soul, to your sense of self, to your identity.
	And if your parents beat you, wished you gone, treated you with contempt, how on earth is someone supposed to love you?
	Because if someone loves you, it means your parents were assholes who abused you or neglected you.
	So there's the collision, right?
	If your parents treat you with contempt, you cannot be loved.
	If you believe them.
	And if you don't believe them, tell them.
	Fight for your self-respect.
	Fight for your capacity to be loved.
	Recover.
	Reclaim.
	Reconquer.
	The aspects of your soul that have the foreign occupation of contempt and violence.
	Say, I am worthy of being loved and the people who treated me brutally, who wished I was gone and who beat me.
	Those people are wrong.
	Wrong!
	It's a battle, man.
	You have to fight to be loved if you were raised with contempt.
	And you're just letting it roll over you repeatedly, as far as I can tell.
	And I say this with great sympathy and no disrespect or negativity to anything that you suffered as a child.
	And I assume that this is semi-new.
	Oh, you said you've known me to have these kinds of conversations before.
	So I guess you've heard of it before.
	Also, I'm being fairly blunt because we have a limited amount of time.
	It's not a call-in show.
	And also because you're 34 and you've got to get off your ass if you're going to be a family man, right?
	Would you like to get married and have kids?
	Yeah.
	If you have people in your life who treated you like shit and never apologized, good women will stay the fuck away.
	Because they don't want to marry into that.
	They don't want to have their kids around that.
	They don't want to spend the next 40 years or 30 years dealing with unrepentant child abusers, continually screwing up their husband and hovering around their children.
	Can you understand that?
	makes How appealing is your family to Jane?
	Yeah, I've thought about that for sure.
	When did you think about that?
	I mean, many times over the years.
	Okay, so what is the solution to that?
	Dispelling the bad air amongst my family and myself.
	Okay, that's very abstract.
	What is the practical solution to that?
	I mean, you were talking about apologies and stuff.
	I think there may have been some of that when the actual violence, physical violence petered off when I was younger.
	But it was replaced with horrific verbal abuse, which is get out of my house.
	I can't wait.
	Yeah, and I was very distant throughout my 20s.
	Only later I was like, okay, they're getting older.
	I'm going to try to just make the best of interacting with them.
	Okay.
	And listen, that's fine.
	You can make the best of interacting with them, but you won't be happily married.
	I guarantee you that.
	I'm not trying to tell you what to do.
	I'm just giving you choices and consequences.
	Well, what was the solution you were getting at with how do I sit down with them and be honest?
	Saying, this is the things that really hurt me as a child.
	This is the things that hollowed out my self-respect.
	Mom, do you remember this?
	Do you remember that?
	Do you remember telling me you couldn't wait till I was out of the house?
	Do you remember me getting hit?
	I'd calculated it like a thousand times.
	I was getting hit.
	That's insane.
	A man who'd been in a thousand bar fights wouldn't even be alive.
	Like, I'm angry at the way I was treated as a child, and you guys have never owned up to it.
	You constantly hit me for things I, quote, did wrong as a child, and you've never owned up to the violence you inflicted upon me and the verbal abuse that you inflicted upon me as a child.
	We got to talk about this because I'm angry at this.
	I'm really angry at this.
	And you don't think this has had an effect on my capacity to love and be loved and to pair bottom and to settle down?
	And it was your job, mom and dad, to bring this up to me.
	It's not my job to bring this up to you because you're the parents.
	And if you want me to treat you in some way that is different from just two old folks I met at the grocery store or at some dinner party, then you got to start acting like parents, which means taking responsibility for what you did because you held me responsible for what I did when I was five years old or four or three.
	And you damn well take responsibility for what you did in your 30s and 40s.
	Now, you may not want to be that emphatic.
	I don't know.
	But you've every right to be angry, wouldn't you say?
	Yeah.
	And I do realize, you know, my current situation is definitely affected by how they raised me.
	How are you feeling about what I'm saying?
	You're just droning on about the things that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
	I mean, is it connecting with you at all emotionally?
	I'm working like a turk here.
	No, I mean, no, it's not.
	I can't hear a single shred of emotion in your voice.
	I'm not criticizing.
	I'm just telling you that I'm working my butt off here to try and connect with you emotionally.
	And you're just, you know, responding like I'm just discussing the weather and the movies and the grocery bill.
	I'm not trying to mock you.
	I'm just saying that you've got to connect with the stuff emotionally because if you're this disconnected emotionally, how can you, if you can't experience anger or frustration or passion, how can you fall in love?
	How can you be devoted?
	How can you really pair bond?
	That's what I'm trying to connect with.
	I'm trying to unlock your capacity to feel strongly because otherwise, how can you passionately wind your life together with someone else?
	Did you ever get this complaint from girlfriends that you were a little emotionally distant?
	Depending on the situation, I think I am passionate in certain cases.
	I think with this particular topic.
	What do you mean, this particular topic?
	This is you.
	This is a topic.
	This is.
	Dealing with my parents.
	Sorry to interrupt.
	What topics are you passionate about that's not this?
	That's more important.
	Art, film, music.
	Just seeing good stuff in the world, learning about the human spirit and spelf-knowledge.
	I have a passion about things that I can't...
	I can't say exactly, but there are external sources in the world that excite me.
	But I think with this, you're right.
	I'm probably putting up a wall.
	Well, no, I can't get past your parents.
	Your parents have guarded you perfectly, and I can't get past your parents to connect with you because you save your passion for songs and movies.
	Yeah, I mean, my friends, things they're doing, but it's, you know, even my friends, I see less and less of them these days.
	So this is, it's all, that's why at the beginning I said the scope of this thing is hard to cover.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Is there anything else that you wanted to mention tonight?
	No, I can wrap it up.
	Okay.
	If you do want to do a call-in show, we can do it public or private.
	You can go to freedomain.com slash call.
	I really, really am very sorry for what happened to you as a child.
	I can't imagine saying to my daughter, I can't wait till you're gone.
	Like even to conceive of it.
	I mean, I know she will be.
	Like she's going to be 17 this year.
	So she's wrapping up her childhood.
	But, you know, we just we played hookie today.
	I was supposed to work on my book.
	We played hooky today.
	I went for like a two and a half hour hike.
	That was just wonderful and just chatted the whole time.
	And I, you know, she's a great person and I know she's going to go.
	And, you know, obviously we'll be close still, but she's got to go have her life.
	I'll be a part of it, but not never the same way as when she was younger.
	And that's just part of time moving on.
	She moves out.
	I get one step closer to the grave.
	But it's been an absolute privilege being her father under the same roof for 16 years and change.
	And I just, I can't imagine saying, I can't wait till you leave.
	That is soul shredding.
	And I'm really, really sorry that you ever heard that.
	And I'm really sorry that your parents are so cold-hearted and frankly violent in this circumstance and situation.
	And I'm really sorry.
	And I would definitely, if I were your shoes, I would definitely look at some talk therapy.
	I've got a whole show.
	You can go to FDRpodcast.com, how to find a great therapist.
	Talk therapy is really good.
	Maybe some body exercises.
	I used to do yoga.
	I did Tai Chi.
	I did aromatherapy, massaging, just to sort of get back in touch with the body and its passions and its feelings, because that stuff is really, really important.
	And I'm really sorry about what happened with you and what your parents did to you and the lack of connection that you guys have.
	And that would be my particular approach.
	And I hope you'll keep me posted about how you're doing.
	And I really do appreciate your time tonight.
	Thank you.
	Thank you, Stefan.
	All the best.
	All right.
	Xander, you've been very patient.
	Let's do close us off, bro.
	That's on your mind.
	Axander.
	Oh, Stefan, is it me?
	Yes.
	How are you doing, sir?
	Well, how are you doing?
	Good.
	Change of gears, if it's okay.
	I wanted to ask you and get your thoughts on what you think about technological advancement and its relationship to human nature, and especially human nature as it pertains to like male and female dynamics.
	So if you think of like, we're moving into AI and we're moving into the, I kind of think of this hypothetical or like technological like tipping point where is there a you caught me off guard here, so I'm gathering my thoughts.
	Do you want to gather your thoughts and come back?
	Well, give me just a second.
	So okay, let me ask you this.
	Let me ask you this.
	I'm not trying to interrupt your getting used to things, but why is this a topic important to you?
	And I'm not saying it's not an important topic, but I'm always curious about, you know, you have the turn at the, I don't know, semi-oracle or whatever you want to call me, right?
	So you have to turn to run something through my not unskilled philosophical brain.
	This is the topic you choose, which is totally fine with me.
	But I'm always curious why this topic and not any other.
	What's important for you about this topic emotionally?
	Really?
	Nothing emotionally.
	It's top of mind and it's interesting to me.
	And I thought I'd say hello.
	No, no, this is not a criticism at all.
	I'm just, I'm genuinely curious why this topic.
	Is it something that you work with emotionally?
	Is it something that has affected you personally?
	What is it that makes this topic so important to you?
	And again, it's an important topic.
	I'm just curious for you.
	It's really like, as much as you can believe it, like pure philosophical interest.
	And I am interested in human.
	But why this one?
	Pure philosophical interest, but why?
	Well, if I can explain it, I'll explain why.
	I'm using it in the context of technological advancement, where from human beings' first advent of the first technology, let's say that's fire, we've kind of been pedaled down like technological advancement, good or bad.
	Like, good, let's just go full speed ahead.
	And I'm proposing, and I want to get your opinion on this, is do you foresee something like a hypothetical tipping point where technological advancement, every step past that tipping point, then becomes fundamentally incompatible with human nature, where the societies that we build with this technology.
	Can you give me an example from the past of a technology that has moved us past human nature?
	I don't think there is one.
	I don't think there's been one.
	Okay.
	So if for the last 100,000 years of technical advancement, there has been no technology that contradicts human nature, why would that be the case instead of 100,000 years, 100,001, or 20 or 50?
	Well, there's definitely been technology that contradicts human nature.
	Sorry, I thought you said there wasn't.
	I'm sorry if I'm not understanding something.
	I'm saying that there's been technology that contradicts human nature, but this hypothetical tipping point, there hasn't been technology that pushes past that.
	And I can explain that.
	Okay, so there's no example in the past of technology that, as you say, pushes past it, but you're concerned that in the future there will be.
	Yeah, so let me.
	So hang on.
	I'm sorry.
	I'm just trying to map what you're thinking.
	So is it technology that we have today that you think will surmount or contradict human nature?
	Or is it an unknown technology that might do it in the future?
	Yeah.
	So let me go at it from a human nature standpoint.
	No, no, but just please, if you can answer my question, I'd appreciate it, or at least acknowledge that I asked it.
	I'm trying to answer it.
	Yeah, I promise you.
	No, I gave you a binary choice.
	Right.
	So is it technology that we have now, or is it unknown technology that might occur in the future that is for your concern?
	It has to be one of the two, right?
	Yeah, it would, I guess it would be, I wouldn't call it unknown technology, but I would say it's technology that is where we're headed in terms of.
	Well, okay, but is it an extension of existing technology or is it something we don't know about yet?
	It's an extension of existing technology that that extension extrapolated.
	Okay.
	And which technology is being extended that is going to be contrary to human nature?
	So it would be, if you don't mind, can I, this will be helpful, Stefan, if you don't mind if I can start like if I can flesh out the human nature part of things.
	Well, I need to know what this, because your fundamental question is not about human nature, but about technology.
	So I'm just trying to understand, is it AI?
	Is it the internet?
	Is it social media?
	Is it, I don't know, VR glasses?
	I mean, I'm trying to understand if you're saying it's an extension, because I need to know what the technology is, because human nature is a huge topic, right?
	So we need to be able to focus on what technology would have the capacity to change or to contradict.
	So if you're going to say, if you're, and I'm not disagreeing with anything, and I'm certainly find a very interesting topic, but is it an existing technology?
	You said it's an existing technology that through extension would affect human nature negatively.
	And I'm just curious roughly what area of technology you'll be talking about.
	I mean, it could be, I don't know, flying cars for all I know, or space travel.
	I just need to know what area of technology is causing your concern.
	Yep.
	And so it sounds like we're on the same page for the most part.
	And if you don't mind.
	No, no, I'm asking a question.
	I'm not on the same page.
	I'm trying to get on the same page.
	I'm answering you.
	And can I propose to you that it's not so much about the type of technology and really the focus on like which technology it is is really not the purpose for the question, if that's okay.
	I don't think you can tell me what the purpose of my question is, can you?
	No, no, the purpose of me, the purpose of my question, me raising this.
	No, no, but if you want me to answer the question, it is important to me.
	Like you're asking me a question.
	Like if you go to the doctor and you say, I want you to heal me and he says, tell me your symptoms.
	And you say, I don't think that's important.
	It's kind of the doctor's job to say what's important, isn't it?
	If you're going to ask someone who you consider somewhat of an expert, then the questions that I have, I think, are important.
	Otherwise, if I don't even know what questions are important, I can't even give you an answer, right?
	Right.
	And so I'm using technology as like an external influence or force onto human nature.
	I understand that.
	You don't need to tell me that.
	And so it's right.
	And so like the specificity of what type of technology it is is less important.
	I'm just using technology as you can't tell me what is or is not important to me when I'm trying to understand your question.
	It is important to me.
	The type of technology, are you talking CRISPR technology?
	Are you talking mRNAs?
	Are you talking gene splicing?
	Are you talking picking your fetuses IQ?
	Are you talking AI?
	Are you talking self-driving cars?
	Are you talking space travel?
	Are you talking transhumanism?
	Are you talking about brains and it is important to me?
	Don't tell me what is or is not important to me.
	Well, I'm not trying to be difficult, Stefan.
	So let's say all of that.
	No, you can't do it.
	I can't do all of that.
	Well, except for flying cars.
	No, but it can't be all of it.
	But the transhumanism piece and the AI.
	Okay, so transhumanism and AI.
	Is that the issues that you mostly have?
	But my issue isn't about those technologies per se, right?
	And so if I'm, you're not forcing me, but if I must say, it's around, yes, transhumanism, AI, this sort of automated surveillance state where there is technology can reach a certain point where the restrictive control measures that potentially could be placed upon human society can become so,
	and this isn't, I don't mean this in the negative connotation, but tyrannical or all-seeing, all-pervading, all-controlling.
	And in such a way that there's a tipping point where, past which we're building these technologies, probably with good intention, let's say, whatever the intention is, let's say it is a good intention.
	But the technology could become that the technological advancement can reach a stage where there's this hypothetical tipping point past which every step you take in advancement in that direction, whether it is gene editing, AI, automation, all of those things you mentioned, except for flying cars, put all those things together.
	And it's less about any of those specific technologies, in my opinion, or at least in my view.
	But that technology, once it reaches that level of sophistication and when it's networked together and when it's advanced enough, could represent or could put at risk or could bring into view a hypothetical,
	let's say, tipping point, as I'm calling it, of technological advancement past which every step we take further estranges us from our human nature where it becomes fundamentally incompatible with our human nature as individuals and especially with our human nature as it relates to male and female relationships and dynamics.
	And so in a sense, I think like if you go back to human innovation, when it comes to male and female dynamics, we're like, what made men attractive to females?
	Well, it was amongst many things, mainly provision and protection.
	And so men really kind of throughout time, chronologically, have sort of like innovated themselves into obsolescence in a sense, if that makes sense.
	No, that's not technology, though.
	That's the state.
	So the state takes money from men and gives it to women who make bad decisions.
	It also takes money from women, but to a lesser degree.
	So the state takes money from people who've made good decisions and gives it to people who've made bad decisions.
	So that's not technology other than the technology has done a lot to generate the wealth.
	That is status redistribution or the forcible transfer of wealth from the competent to the incompetent.
	I'm not sure that's technology as it is so much a general philosophy of what we justify in terms of the use of violence in society.
	Yeah.
	And so let's stick with the provision of protection just to keep it simple.
	And maybe let's also add a third one where it's like a biological aspect, where so women have a biological burden that men don't have, right?
	Obviously menstruation and pregnancy.
	And so as an example of men innovating themselves into obsolescence, indirectly in this case, you know, man invented the tampon and man invented all of these technologies as rudimentary as they started out as,
	as ways to alleviate the burden of menstruation that women had that kept them less mobile and less functional and less free in a sense because they're sort of shackled to some degree by their biological burden of menstruation and pregnancy.
	And then the birth control obviously being a very big like transformational technology that came invented where pregnancy makes women very vulnerable.
	And if they don't have a choice of whether or not they can, you know, if they're not, if there's.
	No, sorry, technically it's not pregnancy, although that's a big factor, but it is the 20 years of parenting that follows pregnancy because human maturity, human brain maturity for women early 20s, men mid-20s.
	I've heard arguments either way, but let's just say 20 years to be, right?
	So it's not just the nine months of pregnancy.
	It's the 20 years of child raising after that that is the big burden.
	100%.
	Yeah.
	I mean, it's all burden.
	And there's no particular technology because we don't have robot parents, right?
	There's no particular technology.
	The child raising aspect of things is where the status redistribution of wealth is having its most effect.
	And that's not fundamentally technological, but moral.
	Yeah.
	And so let me kind of try to get through this quickly.
	So I think we're on the same page.
	So biologically, if we're thinking of it in the context of men innovating themselves into obsolescence, and I'm trying to be relative to the male-female dynamic in like the dating conversation.
	No, actually, I feel like we're almost having a debate, but you're not.
	I don't want to debate you.
	No, I'm not debating you at all.
	Well, no, but I have a disagreement with you.
	Okay.
	What is that?
	Well, I've told it to you twice.
	Well, I don't think so.
	What's the disagreement so far?
	Okay.
	So, Xander, love you to death, man, but you're going to, I'm going to close it off here.
	Yeah, it's, you know, if you, if you want to do a monologue, then just do a monologue.
	Or say to me, Steph, I just want to do a monologue.
	Because I was trying to get some clarity and he was getting annoyed with me and telling me I didn't need it.
	And it's like, no, I kind of do.
	And then he said, men have technologically advanced themselves into obsolescence.
	And I said, well, it's not technology.
	It is the moral acceptance of the coercive political redistribution of wealth that is the issue.
	And then he just went on with his technological men have technologically advanced themselves into obsolescence.
	And I kept telling him it wasn't about technology.
	It was about morality and so on.
	And then he didn't even remember me making that point.
	And so, you know, just in general, if you're chatting with people, you know, we all, we all do this.
	So I'm not, you know, sometimes I'm thinking about a philosophical problem while someone is telling me something more specific and I get a little distracted and so on, right?
	So I'm not trying to nag from some statement of perfection here.
	But in general, if you're calling someone up, don't just have a monologue, which can't be affected by the other person talking to the point where you don't even listen to what they're saying because, you know, that's kind of rude.
	Pretending to have a conversation when you're not having a conversation, right?
	When I've just made the objection, which I made very clearly twice to Xander, and then I say, I feel like we're not even having a debate.
	It's like, but I don't want to have a debate.
	And I said, but I've disagreed with you on like twice.
	And he didn't even remember what I'd said.
	That's somebody who wants a monologue.
	And don't do that.
	Don't hijack my show for your own monologue.
	If you want to do a monologue, you got a whole internet out there.
	You can record your videos.
	You can publish them.
	You can record speeches.
	You can write blogs.
	You can do whatever you want in terms of your monologue.
	But don't come into a call-in show in general and not listen to a word that I'm saying because that's kind of rude, right?
	That's kind of rude.
	It's like if you're going to go and interview for a job, then you're going to listen to what the guy asks you to explain or the woman asks you to explain.
	You're not just going to say, well, don't interrupt me.
	And you don't need to know that.
	And I'm not going to listen to what you say because then you won't get the job.
	In this case, the job of continuing with the show.
	I'm sorry to the people we did not get to tonight, but we've had a long old chitty chat.
	Maybe two and a half hours, almost two hours, 40 minutes.
	So I really do appreciate everyone's support.
	Freedomain.com slash donate.
	I am trying to make my time on Twitter work for me.
	So far, I will say that there has not been really any movement from Twitter to the donation page.
	And again, I know it's been a little under two months, but if you could help out, if you're listening to this on X, freedomain.com slash donate.
	That's why I don't have any commercials.
	I don't have any sponsors.
	You don't have to fast forward plus me talking about VPNs for gold for two or three minutes.
	So the price of not having ads in the show is people supporting the show.
	Freedomaine.com slash donate.
	My books are free.
	The documentaries are free.
	The call-in shows are free.
	These shows are all free and they're not paid for by ads, which means they have to be paid for by your integrity.
	So freedomain.com slash donate.
	Really appreciate everyone's time tonight.
	We will see you Friday night.
	Sorry if you were just dozing off.
	We will see you Friday night for Friday Night Live.
	And then don't forget on Sunday, 11 a.m., freedomain.locals.com is a donor-only show.
	Lots of love, my friends.
	Take care.

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