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Feb. 24, 2025 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

02:24:57

Why Can't I Meet a Woman? Freedomain Call In

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	Just the history of me, or what the problem is?
	Well, the problem is girls, right?
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	So, the last couple of years, or for my whole life, I think I just focused on working.
	I think I, how do you say that?
	Not put time in it.
	And now I'm behind on that.
	And I'm good on the career stuff, but very much behind on the girl stuff.
	Right.
	Okay.
	So you're in your sort of mid-late 20s.
	And so it's, you know, 10 plus years that this hasn't happened or worked for you.
	And how much does that bother you?
	I mean, I know you're a happy guy in general, but how much does that bother you as a whole?
	It didn't really bother me, but now it sort of started to...
	I think I have to start on it.
	And then I realized how much I was behind or don't have any experience.
	And so I thought what your advice was to panic about it.
	Right, right.
	It was a little bit how I thought that it was a good idea.
	And I'm also...
	A little bit panicked about it because otherwise I have to date girls that have had a lot of boyfriends or are left or I don't know, something like that.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	And what is it that you feel you're missing or that you want out of a girlfriend or a wife?
	Is it like family and kids or what is it that you want?
	Yeah, family and kids and...
	Make my life better and easier and also that stuff, like family and kids and being able to split up the tasks and...
	Oh, like, yeah, split up the tasks and it's cheaper to live as cheaply as one, that kind of stuff, right?
	Yeah, but that's not...
	Yeah, of course, it's also the love stuff.
	Or that you have like a companion or something.
	But not that much.
	Sorry, say what you mean.
	Not that much.
	What do you mean?
	Not that much.
	It's not...
	Maybe...
	That's sort of the question.
	If I'm suppressing that, that I want a companion or something, or maybe I'm really super businessy about it.
	Super business.
	Oh, so there's like the economic efficiency argument, right?
	And then there's the argument of love and so on, right?
	Okay, got it.
	Got it.
	And when your friends were starting to get into talking about girls and dating girls and interested in girls and so on, were you at all part of that process or did you avoid it in your sort of mid-teens?
	Yeah, I was part of it, but I also was very much pushing it away.
	So I was sort of busy with it, but I never took any initiative.
	And I also, every time you go, when it started to go somewhere, I thought like this was taking way too much time.
	And I was very, I think, very judgmental about girls.
	About how they live their lives.
	And now it's changed a little bit.
	So you would judge mental girls how they live their lives.
	What does that mean?
	They were like a little bit slutty or something and they wouldn't have money or they didn't do anything with their time.
	Something like that.
	That stuff.
	I didn't like watching Netflix in your free time.
	Right.
	They didn't have to read books or study history or have that kind of stuff, right?
	Something I get, yes.
	So you couldn't find any intelligent women or women you could admire.
	Is that a fair way to put it?
	Yes.
	When they are intelligent, they were a little bit depressed and I don't like...
	Depressed or like a little bit negative outlook on life.
	So I know a lot of intelligent girls, but they're a little bit more negative.
	Like the combination of happy and intelligent.
	That is not...
	Yeah, not seen much of that.
	Okay, got it, got it.
	Now, but what's changed is not that the women have become better, but...
	Or certainly, you know, the hormones in the teen years are a true force of nature, not quite so much when you get older.
	So it's not that the women have changed or that your desire has increased, but sort of negative or anxious thoughts about missing out, is that more like what it is?
	Now, more like that I really do need to put work a little bit aside because otherwise I'm just going to live with my parents forever and work all day and only work and sleep.
	And I, yeah.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	I don't know.
	It's more things, more small things.
	What do you mean?
	I have some internal feeling that I have to start with a family or at least start with a girlfriend.
	If I start, like, at the point when I want to start a family, then I have only one chance.
	Otherwise, I'm getting too old.
	Or then it's, like, then you have, like, a girlfriend, then you have to break up, and it takes sort of a feeling that that takes, like, a lot of years.
	Okay, got it.
	So whose job is it to teach you about dating and girls?
	Because, I mean, it's not innate, right?
	It's culturally different and so on, right?
	So whose job Is it or was it to teach you about these things?
	I think my parents.
	Yesterday I also talked about it with them, that it was like we talk about everything, but that's like a war thing you don't talk about or something.
	My brother and sister also don't talk about it, or sort of openly, only recently.
	When I brought it up a lot, like that it's like a weird thing in our family that it's why it's such a secretive topic, why it's like you feel like you shouldn't talk about it.
	Okay, so your father didn't do anything to prepare you and talk about girls or the challenges, the excitements and so on regarding girls, right?
	And your mother didn't either, right?
	And did they, have they ever expressed anything over the last, I mean, most people start, you know, 14 or 15, they start, you know, it could be a little earlier, a little later, but in general, sort of 14 or 15. So, you know, we're talking 12 or 13 years ago for you.
	So, have your parents expressed anything over the last 12 or 13 years about this being absent?
	No, also not.
	So, or my dad.
	I think my dad once, and my mother, like very service-level, like that I should go out, have a beer, and look for a girl or something.
	Super service-level stuff.
	But I recently talked about it with my mom and my dad, and they said that, or my mom at least, she acknowledged that because how their relationship started was sort of that my mother I sort of cheated on another, on my dad with her long-time boyfriend.
	Sorry, say that again?
	Your parents' relationship started because your father had...
	My mother fell in love with my dad while she had a long-term or five-year-long relationship from her 20s to her 25th.
	Then she fell in love with my dad.
	And then she slowly...
	Yeah, broke up with him and it was like a sort of a painful thing.
	Does she consider that something bad or wrong that she did?
	Yes.
	Or at least that's what she just said.
	I also don't know why.
	It's not...
	I'm happy about it.
	So it happens.
	So does she have, like...
	Does she feel she did something, like, immoral?
	Yeah.
	I didn't talk that long because just recently, so...
	We didn't.
	We still have to go a little bit more in depth.
	Yeah, sort of.
	She felt like she did something a little bit bad.
	I think.
	At least.
	That's all right.
	Now, what do you think?
	Sorry, when did you first find out about this with your parents?
	It's sort of hanging in the air for...
	A long time.
	It's not like a bad thing or something that there's not talking about, but we, as the kids, never asked about it because it was like a, I don't know, automatically don't talk about it.
	I knew pretty early on, I think, but not that it was like that she was actually living with her boyfriend when she was in love and then It was like...
	She didn't cheat on him, she just was falling in love with my dad and moved out and then there were...
	So recently I got like the more complete story of it, of the timeline.
	Okay, so she just broke up with her boyfriend and got together with your dad.
	She didn't cheat, right?
	No.
	So I also think it's not that...
	It's not really that bad.
	Sorry, maybe I'm missing something, but why is it bad at all?
	I don't know.
	No, I'm just curious.
	I mean, I can tell my particular thoughts on it, but the more important thing is why you think it might be bad.
	I don't think it's bad, but I have a feeling that something else bad happened because she was depressed for three years, for two years or something when she had with my dad.
	Because of it.
	Oh, so she thought it was really bad.
	Yeah.
	So it was bad in that sense, that there was a lot of bad feelings around it.
	There was no fight or anything.
	They still are friendly with each other, like their old boyfriend or something.
	Oh, she's still friends with her ex-boyfriend?
	Not friends.
	She doesn't meet him or anything.
	She goes to a reunion.
	He is also there because they came from the same place.
	So just like service level talk.
	So there was no...
	They didn't go separate ways with a fight.
	Okay.
	So why was your mother depressed?
	Yeah, that's a good question.
	I think why would your father want to be with a girl who's depressed for years?
	Yeah, that's also weird.
	Also thinking about it.
	Recently, a lot why he would want to go with my mother in the States he was.
	But I think that was because my dad also started dating, I think, very late, like in his 30s or something.
	Or that met my mother when he was, I think, 32. Well, but met your mother and dated is different, right?
	Yeah.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	They met and started dating.
	I think that was very close together.
	No, but so are you saying that your father didn't really date before he met your mother?
	I think so.
	Okay.
	My father's side, that's like harder to get the stories out of.
	But he didn't have relationships before my mother.
	Okay.
	And is there an age difference?
	Yeah, seven years.
	Oh.
	Okay, so he's 32, she's 25. She'd been in a five-year relationship, so it was almost like her high school sweetheart, and then she left him, and then she got together with your dad.
	Do you know if there was much overlap?
	From what I heard yesterday, it's like one year or something that she wanted to get into graphical design with computers.
	It's like a very long time ago.
	And my dad already did that, so she frequently started to visit him and help him with his work, and he taught her how to...
	So there was like a period where she still was with her old boyfriend, but when she visited my dad frequently, and then...
	So I think it was like two years or one year, something like that.
	Or, I heard it, it was six months.
	A six-month overlap.
	Okay.
	So this is when your mother was attracted to your father but hadn't acted on it.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	So tell me what you think about the morals of the situation.
	From what we know.
	Again, we don't know everything, but from what you know.
	I can think of that as bad.
	Only that my mother stayed way too long with her old boyfriend.
	Because he was like, that's also what I heard yesterday, he was a little bit cheating on parties, like kissing, and she stayed way longer with it.
	Sorry, the boyfriend was cheating?
	Yeah, the previous, yeah.
	So he was more cheating, like kissing and stuff, and I think nothing much else.
	But he was like a big drinker and smoker.
	Oh, a party boy, right?
	Yeah.
	And very service level, so do that sports.
	And was he also older?
	I don't know.
	I think he was not that much older than my dad.
	No, older than your mom.
	Yeah, I think he was sort of like the same age, or maybe two years older.
	That's what I think.
	I don't know.
	All right.
	I mean, my thought is that if a guy hasn't committed to a woman after five years, it's open season.
	Okay.
	Well, I mean, your mother wanted to get married and have kids, right?
	No, she didn't, but my dad wanted to have kids.
	Okay, but she wanted something else or something different.
	Now, do you know that she specifically didn't want to, or just she hadn't really planned for it, or was she against having kids?
	She thinks herself that she consciously didn't want to have kids, but she consciously did want to have kids because she was on the pill, but she was forgetting it a lot.
	And that's why I was born.
	And I think my sister also...
	Oh, so you're also against your mother's wishes?
	Is that right?
	I mean, her conscious wishes.
	We can get her unconscious stuff as much as we want, but against her conscious wishes.
	I think my parents are not that good at planning stuff.
	They're a little bit chaotic, so I don't think they had a problem with it, or they had talked about it.
	She was still on the pill, but forgot to take it very regularly.
	Okay, so she was happy having children, is that right?
	She doesn't sit there and say, you've got a terrible mistake, it's the worst thing ever, or anything like that, right?
	She was having children, only she was acting like she didn't, or at least was on the bill and that kind of stuff.
	Now, do you know, did she want to get married even if she didn't want to have kids?
	Did she want to get married?
	No, they're still not married.
	Oh, okay.
	Okay, got it.
	They never married.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So, yeah, I mean, to me, if there's no commitment in particular, if there's no commitment in particular, after five years, it's open season.
	Okay.
	Right, right, right.
	I think I sort of agree with that or something.
	Well, I mean, and if the people aren't looking to get married and they aren't looking to settle down and have kids, then, you know, what does it matter, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I also don't think there's much wrong with it.
	Yeah, honestly, I could care less.
	Nobody's initiating force.
	Maybe there was some falsehood involved.
	But if your mother and her boyfriend had not made any kind of life commitment, then so what?
	Yeah, that's also what I think.
	And she said it, she made it clear very...
	Early on that she was falling in love with another guy.
	Oh, she told her boyfriend that she was falling in love with her dad.
	Yes.
	And because she thought she had to say that and maybe she thought if we started to do more stuff together or something then it will slowly go away again.
	But it didn't go away because the boyfriend got a little bit distant after that.
	Which is also understandable.
	Yeah, sure.
	Yeah, but I mean, it was a go-nowhere relationship though, right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, he was drinking, smoking, partying, she was having fun, I assume.
	But I mean, it was nothing serious, it was nothing committed, it was nothing for the life, it was nothing for the children.
	So to me, this is kind of like, it's sort of like, if someone has a contract, you know, like I've contracted to work with this place for the next two years, and I've signed a contract, and I've got my bonus, and I got my stock options, Then you can't poach the employee, right?
	Because they're already signed up and then you're poaching them to break a contract, right?
	But if, you know, you meet someone and they're not really happy with their job and you want to hire them and you say, hey, you should come work for me and I'll give you this and I'll give you that and you're underutilized here and I can make you happier and I'll give you a more meaningful job with better pay and you'll have independence, you can work from home, and then the person leaves that job to come to you.
	Have you stolen the person?
	It's like, that's just business, right?
	Yeah, I agree with that.
	That's true.
	So, to me, to sort of be racked with guilt because you got someone to change their job and work for you instead of some other guy who was underappreciating them, I mean, what's wrong with that?
	That's just business.
	Do you think there's more to the story?
	I'm not getting out of them?
	Well, we don't know why your mother was depressed for two years.
	She said because she broke up with a high school sweetheart kind of guy.
	So she knew a long time.
	Right.
	So basically she transitioned from this From this boyfriend to your dad, right?
	Yes.
	Okay, got it, got it.
	So maybe she was just depressed because she didn't have time to process the previous relationship before getting into the new one, right?
	So they say it takes about half the length of the relationship to get over the relationship, right?
	So if she was together with him for five years, then, you know, two years sounds about right to get over the relationship, right?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So then the question is, why was your father interested in a girl who had a long-term boyfriend and who ended up depressed when she broke up with the boyfriend?
	I don't...
	I don't know.
	I don't know, really.
	You know.
	Sorry to be annoying.
	You do know because they're your parents, and if you can't know them, you can't know anyone, right?
	I have it a little bit, I think, in myself, too, or something, that I... Okay, so why do you think they got together?
	Because my dad was more...
	Yeah, okay, that's from my mother's side, so he was probably from my dad's side.
	I think my dad, because he was working all the time, and then he had a girl that finally...
	Really was into him or something.
	Something like that.
	So that was actually going for him.
	I sort of...
	It's a guess.
	I don't really know.
	I think that...
	That he finally had like a...
	High status or something.
	Because he was making like...
	On that time.
	A lot of money.
	And...
	He probably was like...
	Okay, let's start with things that are a little more simple than all of these very complicated theories.
	How pretty is your mother?
	What's your mother when she was younger?
	Really?
	Seven and a half or something?
	She was pretty, but she was also very insecure.
	No, no, we're not talking about her character.
	Men are visual characters, right?
	So, how pretty was she?
	And how attractive was your father?
	I think around seven and a half or something, both.
	So, or above average, maybe sevens, both sevens.
	And so, I mean, you've seen pictures of your mother when she was younger.
	I'm sure you've seen her in outfits that would reveal her figure.
	And I'm sorry to be talking about your mom in this kind of way, but it's kind of where we all come from, right?
	So, when you've seen pictures of your mother when she was younger, she would be considered attractive, although obviously not a supermodel, but she would be considered attractive, right?
	Yeah, she would be considered attractive, but she's very long.
	So she's longer than my dad.
	Taller?
	My dad.
	Longer.
	Like, very long.
	How do you say that?
	Taller.
	Height.
	Taller, sorry, yeah.
	Taller.
	Okay, got it.
	No, I'm pretty sure that's what you meant.
	Okay.
	So she's taller than your dad, and most women want a guy who's taller than them.
	So your dad made up for it with income, is that right?
	Yeah, I have an interesting job.
	They started working together, so he hired her, and that's also sort of when the relationship started, I think.
	Wait, he hired her and then dated her?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	I do have some minor ethical issues with that.
	I think the dating started before that, but they started working together.
	But no, he hired her.
	Yeah, but that was, I think, they started dating and then he hired her.
	Right, so that's kind of nepotism, right?
	It means giving preference.
	Preferential economic incentives to someone for non-business reasons, right?
	Because they're a family member or you're sleeping with them.
	Yeah.
	It's kind of demoralizing to the other people working for your dad if your mom gets a job because she's sleeping with the boss.
	Yeah, probably.
	All right.
	I would think so.
	But it was not like a super...
	It was not like a super big company.
	I think he had like one other who had like a secretary at that time and maybe one other girl also working for him.
	Oh, so he wasn't very successful, right?
	Oh, sorry.
	Did I say very successful?
	Yeah, he was sort of very successful, but it was in marketing, in making ads.
	He didn't need a lot of people.
	After that, he...
	Oh, he just was the creative director and boss and all of that, right?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So he made good money, but he didn't need a lot of employees.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	At that time.
	After that, he got a lot of employees.
	So they got together.
	He hires her.
	She's depressed.
	And when did...
	How long after they got together did you come along?
	Are you the oldest?
	I'm the oldest.
	I'm the only one still living at home.
	So I think when she was 32 or 30. Sorry, when who was?
	My mother was 30. 32 or 30. Yeah, so my dad was...
	Is that correct?
	So your parents were together for seven years before you came along?
	I think so.
	Wow.
	Or maybe five years.
	Maybe five years.
	In between five and seven years.
	Okay.
	I mean, that's not...
	Yeah, I don't want to fuss on the details, so...
	Okay, so they were together for a long time, and then you came along, and how many siblings do you have?
	Two.
	A brother and sister.
	Little brother, little sister.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	And you guys, you don't have to give me the...
	Big details, but are you fairly close together in age?
	My sister is one year younger and my brother is more years younger.
	I think four years?
	No, I think he's four years or five years.
	He's a lot later.
	He came a little bit later.
	Okay, got it.
	And how was your childhood growing up?
	Did your mother work or did she stay home?
	She sort of stayed home, so I don't really remember.
	At least in the very early years she was home, so it was very peaceful and isolated from stuff.
	It was a sort of big garden for Dutch standards and a lot of playing outside and arts and crafts stuff.
	Not that much going outside the house, but yeah.
	Right.
	Very peaceful.
	And so good.
	And how were you disciplined if you were?
	Yeah, that didn't go really that bad or something.
	We didn't do bad stuff.
	So they just talked about everything.
	Everything except for that part is like good talked out a little bit.
	I didn't do much bad stuff.
	No, it sounds lovely.
	It really sounds absolutely lovely.
	Yeah, that's great.
	And your father, did he work from home or was this when his business was becoming more successful and did he work outside of the home?
	No, he just worked at home.
	Just like now, we just have the factory in the house.
	It's very fun work.
	And you work with your father, right?
	Yes.
	My father and my mother are also in the company.
	Got it.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I mean, listen, I don't have any problem with family companies.
	I think that's great.
	But, okay.
	So...
	I also think it's great.
	That's why I'm a little bit...
	I think it's super great.
	It's a little bit too great or something.
	Right.
	No, we'll get there.
	We'll get there.
	I understand that.
	Okay.
	So, did you end up going to...
	Daycare or kindergarten, or did your mother stay home until you went to, I assume you went to regular government school, is that right?
	Yep, regular government school, and my mother stayed home for, she only started working, I think, when I was eight or something, or seven again, or maybe earlier, but then she slowly started working and she was always at home.
	Yeah, so she really put some great effort into raising you guys, and it sounds...
	You know, very nice and wonderful and great.
	So, obviously, that's a little out of the norm for some of these shows, so I'm completely thrilled to hear it and how wonderful.
	And how was your fun?
	Sorry, go ahead.
	I don't know.
	no no that's why I think it's also a little bit weird why I'm going to write in because there were there are some it's yeah that's why I cannot could not figure it out from listening to other call-in Right, right.
	Because I have different problems.
	I appreciate the challenge.
	I do.
	I really appreciate the challenge.
	I appreciate the variety.
	Okay.
	And how was your father when you were growing up?
	So, pretty fun.
	Not distant.
	Yeah, I did like...
	Like, building stuff a little bit with my dad.
	He was, like, working a lot, but it was at home, so I could always go to him, or...
	Yeah.
	And all the employees were also there, so it was all sort of fun, and I... Yeah.
	I think...
	No, it wasn't.
	My dad was just there, like a...
	I think that's how you want a dad to be.
	The only thing you can say is that he's a little bit more feminine and my mother is a little bit more masculine or something.
	My dad is a little bit emotional, very big risks.
	He takes a lot of risks.
	But also in an emotional way or something.
	Like impulsive?
	Yeah, impulsive.
	So when he has a lot of money, he buys stuff based on debt and then when he has little money, a little bit like that.
	He was always working and never looking behind him if money-wise it's going okay.
	It's hard to begrudge an entrepreneur some spending, right?
	You've got to work for something, right?
	I mean, if your family's taken care of, why not have some toys?
	I don't know.
	It's just my...
	I'm also not judging him.
	I think it's a good thing.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So I cannot really come up with anything bad.
	No, I'm thrilled to hear it, and I'm certainly not going to try and create something bad, so I think that's great to hear.
	And look, I mean, as far as character flaws, we all have them.
	And, you know, sometimes they can be part of our charm, right?
	So, you know, it all sounds very nice and very positive, and that's great to hear.
	Okay.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	I don't know anybody with a better youth than I had.
	Right, right.
	It's great to hear.
	Great to hear.
	Okay, so you go to school, and how's your school experience?
	Yeah, I think the most bad stuff comes from there, so it was very boring.
	Also, not that bad, because I went to a Waldorf school, so it was only in the basic preschool, like the one where you go from kindergarten, like the one you have to go to.
	There were some weird kids.
	Sorry, not the Waldorf school.
	What did you say?
	Sorry.
	Sorry, I got lost in the time frame.
	So you went to Waldorf school and then you went to government school?
	No, no, no.
	My high school was a Waldorf school, but the preschool or the kindergarten was...
	I don't know how it's...
	In Canada, but it's, you have, like, from 4 to 12, you go to, like, the basis, like, the base school.
	Uh-huh.
	And then you have, like, the high school, or from 12 to, I think, sort of 18 or 19. Okay.
	And then you go study.
	A university kind of thing, okay.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So, are you, sorry, from grade 4 to, sorry, from the age of 4 to 12, you were in a government school, and then you went to Waldorf?
	Yeah.
	And you said there was some negative stuff in the government schools, which there usually is.
	And what was that?
	A little bit bullying.
	And also, I think I got pretty manipulative there, or at least lying.
	I beat my pants a lot when I was younger there.
	Also, on the whole side, it was pretty peaceful also.
	So I remember, yeah, it's not, it was not really that bad, but there were like normal people.
	So people had like a little bit harder life than me.
	So they were like a little bit rougher.
	And what sort of bullying did you experience?
	Just getting isolated, like you couldn't be part of groups.
	Like, yeah, you were ostracized.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Yeah, because I was a little bit weird.
	You were a little bit weird, also?
	Very smart, but also very quiet and also weird interests, like...
	I don't know, making stuff and something.
	Stuff like that.
	Doing other stuff like gaming and sports.
	I was not interested in sports and computer games.
	Also not really internet.
	Sorry, you weren't into sports and you weren't into computer games.
	Or you were into computer games.
	No, I was also not into computer games.
	I was just into making stuff, like building stuff, like airguns from PVC pipes and stuff like that.
	Oh, so engineer guy.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yeah.
	How is that weird?
	That's pretty natural boy stuff, isn't it?
	Yeah, I would say.
	But there were not anybody in that school I could relate to with that.
	There were no other people who were...
	Making stuff.
	Ah, okay.
	Yeah, so they were all like video games and stuff like that.
	And sports, I guess, too, right?
	Yeah, sports and...
	And so, did you talk to your parents about negative experiences at school and how did they react and what did they do?
	A little bit, but I was also lying about it a lot, I think, because I was making...
	When I talked about it, I made it, like, a lot bigger.
	Like, they pulled down my pants, I remember, something like that, and I got, like, a guy who was bullying me lightly, like, in big trouble, I think, because of that.
	Sorry, you exaggerated the bullying and got the bullies in trouble?
	When I came out with it, I made it, like, super big.
	But, uh, I made it, like, that it was, like, super weird big thing.
	It was just like being ostracized and stuff like that.
	And just saying stuff about me.
	Right, okay.
	But it was like a very hip and down.
	I don't have any particular issues with that.
	I mean, whatever steps you have to take to dealing with being bullied.
	And if the bully gets in more trouble, then maybe that helps with being bullied.
	I don't have any problem with that.
	I mean, once you're being bullied, I don't think you have much obligation to tell the truth.
	Okay.
	Because you're in a state of nature, right?
	You can't have high moral standards for people who are bullying you because they don't have high moral standards themselves.
	Yes.
	That's sort of a nice thing.
	Well, at least I was like, I think a long time I felt like really shitty about it, that I did that.
	Oh, go on.
	Not really shitty, but I thought like I cannot talk to anybody from that time because I was...
	I lied about it.
	Okay, so that's interesting.
	If you could tell me a little bit more about...
	How you felt bad or in what way or what was the standard by which it's just like you have to tell the truth even if you're being bullied?
	Is that the standard?
	Yeah.
	Maybe.
	I don't know.
	Maybe because after that I also became like because I had like success with lying I think I did it way more at school or something or making everything like It was super weird that I got away with it.
	And I think they all knew I was lying, but they just didn't say it or something.
	It was just like nobody talked about it after that.
	Okay, can you give me more specifics about the lie that you told?
	Like what actually happened and what did you say happened?
	What happened was they were just calling me names from people and I could not play with the people.
	They were just not really taking stuff from me, but if I took a ball to school, they would keep it and not give it back and start playing with it.
	And I made a story that...
	When you have like the school, you have that play yard and you have like gun monitored bushes or like a little bit brush where you can walk in and where the teachers can't see you.
	And I said like they pulled down my pants and were laughing about it like a couple of people, like a couple of the guys because I thought that's like very bad thing to do.
	So I thought like I put it on them.
	Okay, so you were being ostracized or not played with or they were taking your stuff and you turned it into something kind of quasi-sexual?
	Is that right?
	Not really.
	That was why I felt bad about it afterward because then I started to understand it.
	It was like a little bit weird sexual stuff I'd paint on them.
	I think all the teachers knew I was lying, but after that I didn't hear anything about it.
	Cooling sort of stopped and didn't hear anything.
	I had two years or three years left from that school and over one year, I don't really know when it happened, but it was like really weird.
	I would think in a normal situation they would say to me, we know you're lying, or they really didn't know I was lying, or it was like he said, he said, like, It was like two stories against each other and they thought it was such a bad story that there should have been a part two of it and they really punished that guy.
	I don't really know what happened.
	And sorry, how old were you?
	Nine or eight.
	Okay, got it.
	Right, okay.
	So I mean, but you dealt with the politics.
	Sorry, you dealt with the bullying.
	And it didn't happen again, right?
	Yeah, sort of.
	It was not a big issue anymore.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	All right.
	I don't really remember what happened, but there were some not good stuff.
	Sorry, not good stuff.
	That's too abstract.
	I don't know what that means.
	Yeah, I was doing stuff behind my back, like making...
	Yeah, I was like the...
	Yeah, you know, like the guy who...
	They want to eat worms and stuff.
	A little bit like that.
	Or sort of they were setting me up to do stuff.
	And I was a little bit...
	innocent again I think what's Oh, yeah.
	I don't know anymore.
	That kind of stuff.
	Okay.
	And if you could go back in time and give your younger self advice, what would you tell your younger self to do?
	Instead, like if you felt at the time that there was something bad or wrong, what would you say now that you should have done?
	Yeah, I think probably what I did.
	Maybe make the story better, so I wouldn't have doubted that they all think I have a slight about it.
	Something like that.
	Make it like a better, less...
	That there's not like a sexual thing on it because I didn't know at the time.
	Something like that.
	I would actually do the same.
	I would not advise to swap schools because the other schools were also not that fun, I think.
	Okay.
	So I think it was a good solution.
	The not good part about it is that I don't know if they knew I was lying.
	So every time you see the...
	Every time I saw those teachers, I didn't know if they were, they thought like they helped me or they thought like they sort of kept it under the rug.
	And they all just, uh, uh, went ice to me because, uh, otherwise I would tell another such story.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Now, do you remember talking about any of this with your parents at all?
	Um, yeah, not that much, but that they were, I think that's also what you talked about, or I can remember what you talked about, that if your parents are not that close, that you are like an easy, pickable target for bullying.
	So it was like a little bit distant times.
	So I talked about it with my mother, and then she went to the teachers, I think.
	I don't really remember what happened after that, but then on school I... I had to talk with the teacher, and I told, like, this weird story.
	But this was your own invention, right?
	I mean, this was what you did.
	This is the solution that you came up with for the bullying, right?
	It wasn't something that you ran through with your parents or decided with your parents or anyone else, right?
	Personal project.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Okay, got it.
	Got it.
	All right.
	And so, yeah, you would say it's fine to tell a story, but maybe don't make it so unbelievable or don't make it in this sort of half-sexual way.
	Is that right?
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	But, yeah.
	So, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Of course, that doesn't do, like, damage to myself that I don't know who to trust anymore because I don't know if they know I was lying.
	Sorry, say that again?
	That I don't know if I can trust teachers after that, if they think I'm like a liar, so they don't trust me at all anymore, or something like that.
	After that, I didn't know if teachers knew that it was a lie.
	Sorry, how would they know?
	It's your word against his, right?
	So, how would they know for sure that it was a lie?
	I mean, unless there was video of the encounter, how would they know that it was a lie?
	I mean, if you put yourself in the mind of the teachers, and you come and say, oh, did you say it was more than one person who pulled your pants down?
	Is that right?
	Yeah, I think...
	I pinned it on three guys.
	Okay, so three guys, you say three guys pulled your pants down, and do you mean that they pulled your pants down but you still had your underwear on, or do you mean that they pulled your pants down and it exposed your genitals?
	I think it was my butt or something that I told.
	Well, you can't just do one, right?
	I mean, unless they just pulled it down from your butt?
	Yeah, it was just like they were like...
	I think just my butt or my genitals.
	I don't know.
	It was not really...
	I thought it was both bad at that age, I think.
	It was like a both bad thing.
	I didn't think of the sexual thing.
	I had like a sort of an idea that it would be super bad to say it like that.
	But I didn't understand it, and I didn't really understand what was going on.
	So, yeah.
	It's something like that.
	Okay, so how would the teachers know?
	I mean, obviously the three boys said we never did that, right?
	Probably, but I don't know what they said.
	Well, of course they would say they wouldn't admit to something they didn't do, right?
	Of course, yeah, okay, yeah.
	But I don't know how far if they got...
	Yeah, I don't know if they...
	Okay, we know you don't know.
	I get all of that.
	We understand.
	I'm not talking about that.
	So they would have said, we didn't do it, and you said they did do it, right?
	Now, did you have a history in the school of verifiable lies?
	I don't think so.
	Right, so you weren't known as a liar, right?
	No, I don't think so.
	Okay, so if you put yourself in the position of the teachers, what should they have done differently?
	I think if I was a teacher there, I think if I was a teacher there, I think I would make it a super big deal and try to find out if it actually happened or if it didn't happen and make a big deal out of it.
	Not that I had one talk and then afterwards I didn't hear much about it and then everybody was nice at it.
	Okay.
	How will they find out what really happened?
	Talking with a lot of other kids, saying, is that like something they would do?
	Is there something, did that happen?
	How would the other kids know whether that happened?
	Maybe put like a little bit of social pressure on the kids who allegedly did it to get around a little bit or something.
	You don't think they...
	Yeah, okay.
	Maybe they did that and they just didn't find out any...
	Maybe you're right.
	No, I'm trying to figure out how...
	When a kid says...
	Now, they probably knew you'd been bullied, right?
	Yes.
	I mean, either you had told them or your parents had talked to them about it or they had seen you be bullied, right?
	Mm-hmm.
	Yeah, they probably see me being nice to me.
	Of course, they're not bullying in front of teachers, but they've seen me being a little bit outside, and they're not being nice to me.
	Well, you know, just because they're not bullying you in front of teachers doesn't mean that the teachers don't see it.
	And I say this because I worked in a daycare for years, and I knew exactly the social status of every child.
	I knew where the child was in the hierarchy.
	I knew who the bullies were.
	I knew who the victims were, even though they did not bully in front of me.
	You catch things out of the corner of your eye.
	You overhear things around the corner.
	You see things through the window.
	I wasn't a teacher, of course.
	I was just a daycare assistant, but you know everything.
	Does that make sense?
	So they knew you were being bullied, right?
	And so this fits that pattern, right?
	Yeah.
	That they just sweep it under the rug and make something like that?
	I'm not sure what that means, but let's just keep following the logic, right?
	So your teachers know that you're being bullied.
	Now, the question is, where do you think you came up with the pants pulling down thing?
	I don't know where I came up with it, but I think I heard some stuff about...
	Like another school where something sexual did happen and I thought maybe it would fit nice with my persona on that school that I'm sort of an innocent guy and I don't know too much about all that stuff if I make it that story because then I couldn't come up with it myself.
	So that's a little bit how I made the story or in my head how it automatically went.
	Okay, so yes, you've heard it from somewhere, right?
	I heard it from somewhere and I thought this is not a thing I could have come up with myself.
	Or they don't think I could have come up with it myself.
	So I think I can get away with it and make it a lot worse for them.
	So it could be the case that your bullies had also heard this story and maybe they had done it to some other kid that it could be verified.
	Because maybe they said, oh, this is cool and this is neat and this is a fun way to humiliate kids or whatever.
	So it could be that the reason why they believed you is A, because they knew you'd been bullied, B, because you did not have a reputation as a liar, and C, because maybe the bullies had heard about this and joked about it or done it to some other kid.
	Yeah.
	That is possible.
	Yeah, I would think that would, in my mind then, I would think that would be too risky if a lot of people knew about this story.
	I think I more, I heard some other story and made like a different thing of it.
	Okay, alright, so let's say that, but still, if you're a teacher and a kid who's been bullied says that the bully's pulled down his pants, Right?
	I mean, there's literally a word for that.
	I don't know what it is in your region, but in England, you get pantsed.
	Pantsed is when you pull down someone's trousers, right?
	Yeah.
	So this is kind of a known bullying thing.
	So if you're a teacher, do you like the bullies?
	No.
	Do the teachers feel sympathy for you?
	Yes.
	Now, there's no way to establish the truth of the matter because there's only witnesses, right?
	And every witness has their own incentive.
	Now, the bullies have already shown that they're not decent people because they're bullies.
	And you, who is a victim and who doesn't have a history of lying, is a decent person.
	Yeah.
	Okay, so the teachers, why would they even particularly care whether it was, quote, "true" Because it gives them a good excuse to punish the bullies and hopefully get them to change their behavior, which it did.
	Yeah, but I never heard from it.
	I never heard if there was, like, a punishment or...
	No, but the bullying for you stopped, right?
	So you gave the teachers a credible reason to punish the bullies.
	Which they wanted to do because they didn't like the bullies.
	So why would the teachers really focus on trying to figure out the truth of something when they didn't like the bullies?
	The bullies had already destroyed their credibility by being bullies.
	That's one of the prices that you pay for being a bad person is that people don't want to believe you and you don't have much credibility.
	So you, no history of lying and a victim of bullying, whereas the bullies, obviously history of lying and history of bullying, and then you give the teachers a way to punish the bullies and thus protect the other children.
	Yeah.
	So I'm trying to figure out why would you have the standard that teachers need to find out the truth when they can't?
	The only way...
	So it's impossible for them to find out the truth.
	But they have to look at the two situations and say, who has more of a history of lying and who has more of an incentive to lie?
	Well, you have an incentive to lie because it makes the bullies look worse, but the bullies are already known as bullies and therefore aren't going to be believed.
	Of course bullies are going to deny bullying.
	They didn't see...
	What the teachers look at is they see the bullies consistently lying by hiding their bullying.
	So, you know, like the bullies will kick a kid under the table where the teacher can't see, or the bullies will bully where they think the teacher is not looking, and so on.
	So, the bullies are constantly lying, and that's why the teachers don't believe them.
	And they're lying by hiding their bullying, if that makes sense.
	That makes a lot of sense, actually.
	But I don't know why that clicked earlier in my life.
	I already dealt with it, I think, like, seven years ago.
	I thought, like, oh, yeah, that's a good thing to do.
	Or it was, like, a just thing to do.
	But before that, I had, like, a nasty feeling about it in me that I did something really bad and nobody knows it.
	Hmm.
	Right, okay.
	So this is not something that you think it was good and right now?
	Yeah, or at least I think it was neutral.
	It didn't really matter.
	At least for now, it was just like, it was not good or bad.
	It was just a thing you do in that situation, or I would do in that situation.
	So, I think this is probably part of your lack of experience in relationships, that we just spent 20 minutes or 25 minutes on something that I think is important, because I think it has to do with your...
	Oh, yeah, yeah, okay.
	And so, and now, hang on, hang on.
	And now you're telling me that it's not an issue, and all of the moral arguments that I've just made, that you appear to be arguing against, are not relevant to you, and you've already resolved it all.
	No, they are very relevant to me, only I don't feel...
	It's sort of a light...
	I still felt like I did something wrong.
	Sorry, I thought you just said that seven years ago you resolved and you thought it was a good thing that you did.
	No, I think it was a bad thing, but in a bad situation, and that's what I thought then.
	To resolve it in my head.
	But now I don't think I really know.
	Sorry, I appreciate that.
	How have your friendships developed over the years?
	On school, it was friendships on school.
	So similar interests like building huts in high school then.
	I don't have any friends from the base school.
	Like, how do you say kindergarten?
	So in high school, like, yeah, just sitting next to each other in class and then, like, making jokes and stuff and doing stuff after school, like building stuff or, like that.
	Okay, and into, sorry, into adulthood?
	how's that been still yeah I mean, you work with your family, right?
	You have siblings.
	Is that mostly your social circle or do you socialize much with friends outside the family?
	I socialize more with friends outside the family.
	I do have a couple of friends before this also came by.
	They live pretty far away, but they, or for Dutch standards, they live pretty far away.
	But I do, like, every weekend I do some stuff with my friends, or I don't.
	And also, a couple of friends work as employees for me.
	So, yeah.
	So I see a lot of friends.
	Okay, and are your friends in relationships?
	Yeah, a lot of them are.
	Sorry?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, a lot of them are.
	Most of my friends were always in relationships.
	I didn't, at last night, not like in that sense, like loser.
	I have like one good friend who is in the same situation as me, but he is like committed to not going into relationships.
	But all other friends all had like relationships and were busy with girls.
	Okay.
	And what do your friends think of you not having...
	You haven't dated, is that right?
	Dated as in just going out with the girls?
	Well, I mean, sorry.
	I mean, I know you've gone out once or twice with girls, so maybe three or four times, but you've never been in a romantic relationship.
	No.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Okay, and what do your friends think of that?
	I think that's like a... sort of weird, but they also understand it, because I'm putting all my time in but they also understand it, because I'm putting all my time So it's not very easily defendable to my friends, but I also started recently talking way more about it.
	But these are friends, some of them you've had for many years, right?
	Yeah.
	So they know that you don't date, right?
	Yeah.
	And do you say, well, I'm just working hard?
	I'm in my, you know, mid-late 20s, and I could have been dating over the last 12 years.
	I haven't really been dating because I'm working hard?
	Yeah, and I also don't know things that girls would like to do.
	I like way different things to do, I think, than girls.
	If I want to ask him out or something, I don't want to go to a bar or a restaurant.
	I just want to do easygoing stuff.
	Like what?
	Like walking in the forest and that kind of stuff.
	Or working on something.
	Like what I do with my friends.
	Making something.
	Sorry, you want to go on a date and make something?
	Like what?
	I don't know.
	Sweet, sweet love!
	No, what do you mean?
	What do you mean make something?
	I don't know.
	Anything?
	Like spinning clay or painting or that are stuff that can do or making like robots or web shops.
	I don't know.
	Anything.
	Everything or something.
	Okay.
	So, have your friends tried to help you or encourage you, or have they introduced you to any girls?
	Because if they're dating, then, you know, their girlfriends or their wives have sisters and friends and cousins, and, like, have they said, you really should not work so much, you should date a little, and, you know, let's at least go out with this.
	It doesn't have to be a setup, like, you know, like you've got to date, but, you know, my girlfriend has a friend.
	Who is single and let's all go out together?
	Not like that, but encourage me to send text or...
	Yeah, like that.
	Like saying I should...
	Say something to that girl or...
	Yeah.
	So let's say you have half a dozen friends, right?
	Yeah.
	They're good friends, yeah.
	Okay.
	So you have half a dozen friends, and each of your friends probably knows at least three single women.
	Yeah.
	I mean, whether it's other friends or family or whatever, right?
	So you've got six friends.
	Yeah.
	They know three girls each, and so that's 18 girls that over the last 12 years, or 10 years, or five years, you could have been introduced to, right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, you just throw a dinner party, and it doesn't have to be awkward.
	You invite you and some single friends, right?
	Yeah.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	Yeah, but then it's not explicit, like you said.
	I think that happens sometimes.
	I probably didn't click with those girls.
	Yeah, I don't know what click means, but we'll get back to that.
	So, have your friends never said, I'm going to invite this girl to the dinner party or to the robot battle or whatever you're doing.
	I'm going to invite this girl to some social event.
	You should chat with her.
	I think she's nice.
	Not that I can remember.
	It feels like it happened, but I cannot remember an instance.
	Also, the women, right?
	So you've got six friends.
	Let's say four of them have girlfriends or wives.
	Is that right?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	So we've got 18 girls that your male friends know.
	Now, women know even more women.
	And women are constantly keen to introduce their friends to a quality guy, right?
	Yeah.
	Because women love to be matchmakers.
	And it's a great thing.
	It's a wonderful thing that women do.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	And lately it happened like twice, but not with my friends, but with my neighbor.
	She knew like a very nice cash register girl down the street.
	And she said that I should go there and ask her out because she was like very high quality.
	But what I heard, the introduction was not high quality.
	Sorry, the introduction was not high quality?
	What do you mean?
	The introduction of my neighbor was, there's a girl there.
	She's very nice and sweet.
	She just broke up with her boyfriend because he cheated on her.
	And so you should go talk to her.
	Okay.
	Sorry, you're not letting me do my part of the conversation.
	I'm talking about your friends.
	So, your neighbor, some cashier girl is not part of what I'm talking about.
	So, let's say that your male friends know three girls, six male friends, that's 18 girls they haven't introduced you to.
	Let's say that four of the girls of your six friends also, they maybe know five.
	So, that's another 20. So, that's 38 girls that your friends and their girlfriends know that have not been introduced to you.
	So why aren't your friends and your friends' girlfriends in particular, why are they not introducing girls to you?
	Why are they not introducing you to girls?
	I think one guy says that I don't talk different to girls.
	So I should first don't talk like the weird stuff.
	I don't know.
	I'm very open and direct about everything.
	And they say I should not do that to girls.
	So he said they like that. - And what example would he have, do you think if I were to ask him, what example does he have of you being open and direct to girls?
	What would he say? - Talking about directly comparing bank accounts, like looking how much money you have on your account and like that stuff, like jokey, of seeing how far you are,
	But then, like, very direct with how much money you actually have on your bank account.
	Something like that.
	I'm sorry, you would meet a girl and you would show her on your phone what your bank account balance is?
	No, I don't show it.
	I would...
	No, I would...
	That's, like, one example.
	Oh, you mean just...
	I would show and...
	I'm not showing first.
	I ask.
	That's just in the conversation.
	I ask how much money from that bank or her bank account or how big her study debt is, the total money.
	Okay, so you would meet a girl and you'd ask her her bank balance.
	Yeah.
	And why would you do that?
	I have an idea.
	A lot of people don't have a good feeling of how everybody else's money works.
	And I also didn't have that until I started to do that.
	Now I don't do that anymore.
	I just wanted to know how other people's finances work.
	So I would just ask everybody how much money...
	No, this is a tautology, right?
	So when I say, why do you ask women their bank account?
	You say, well, I'm curious about their finances.
	But that doesn't answer the question.
	You're just describing what you do.
	Well, why are you going north?
	Well, I want to go north.
	Yes, but why do you want to go north?
	So why do you want to know about women's bank account?
	Because I don't get women finances.
	Then I didn't get it.
	Now I sort of get it.
	It's different for how they get money and spend it and what their balance is.
	I was just interested in...
	Because they do, like, a lot of different stuff with their money.
	Okay, but why?
	You're just saying, I want to know, but why do you want to know?
	On the first date, or the first meeting, or whatever.
	And I'm not critical, I still want to know.
	You have to have a theory that you want this information for, because you could ask the woman for just about anything.
	But you ask about the bank account, which must mean that you're suspicious of something, right?
	I mean, let's just be honest, right?
	You think she's a spendthrift, you think she's heavily in debt, and you don't want to pay her bills.
	Is it something like that?
	No, I don't think it's something like that, but after I heard most of the women's stories, it is something like that.
	There's not much interest left at that moment.
	Maybe that's really interesting, or I talk about studies.
	Okay, so I still don't know what you mean.
	So you would ask women about their bank account, right?
	Yeah.
	Now, I mean, I don't know your culture intimately, but certainly where I came from, that would be rude.
	Probably.
	I don't know if it's rude where I come from.
	Well, your friends consider it rude, because I asked for an example of how you were too blunt and direct with women that your friends criticized, and this was the example you gave me.
	So you have some idea that it's rude, right?
	Yeah, probably, but not in my direct circles.
	No, your friend said, I asked, why haven't the 38 women your friends know been introduced to you?
	And you said, well, one of my friends said that you're too blunt with women.
	And I said, well, give me an example.
	And you said, asking about bank balances.
	So I'm just going with what you said, but I mean, it's...
	Kind of annoying that you'd say, well, no, no, my friends don't think it's rude when you gave me this as an example of what your friends think is rude.
	They accept it from me, but they don't think I should do it.
	Yeah, they think it's rude.
	Okay, so why are we bouncing all over the place here?
	I don't understand.
	We're just going in circles, right?
	I ask you for an example of what your friends think is rude, and then you give me that example, and I say, well, that's rude, and then you say, well, my friends don't think so.
	Because they don't think so if I ask it to them.
	I think.
	I don't know.
	Maybe they do think it's rude.
	Your friend says you're too blunt with women.
	Yeah.
	Okay, so I asked for the example.
	You give me the example.
	And then you say, well, my friends don't think that too blunt with women.
	Yeah, but they also...
	Yeah, okay.
	Two women with two guys.
	You can say you can be very blunt.
	What are you talking about?
	I've never met a man and asked him his bank balance.
	Oh.
	Okay.
	I've never heard of such a thing.
	Okay.
	Is it interesting?
	And I would consider it extremely strange if I meet a guy and he's like, hey, my name is X. How much money do you have in your bank account?
	Yeah.
	Why do you want to know?
	I go to the toilet very quickly.
	I have to go...
	Hello!
	Yo!
	Yeah, I think I'm very blunt.
	Well, my question is, why do you want to know people's bank accounts?
	when you first meet them?
	Because you know sort of
	important detail about them about how they talk with people how they behave themselves financially So you you Is it that you find out whether they save or spend money?
	Yeah.
	And when they do it, what comes in, what goes out.
	Also, I think it's also to compare myself, to think of where am I, because you don't really hear that much about it or what is normal or what is normal spending behavior or what is not normal spending behavior.
	Okay, so why do you want to know how much a woman saves and spends?
	I also ask it to guys.
	It was a specific thing.
	I sort of think that's my...
	Okay, but...
	So, you want to talk about dating or men and women?
	About what?
	Oh, no, sorry.
	Okay.
	Women, because...
	And you can sort of know from that if they are...
	Like, if they like to spend a lot, if they have like a little bit money, if they directly spend it on wine at the restaurant, or if they save it because they want to buy a house later, or if they have insane amounts of debt because they went to school.
	I don't know.
	It feels like it's very personality-bound, but are you going with money?
	Are you dealing with money?
	Okay.
	Now, why do you think you can't judge a woman's character by how she interacts with you and you need to see her bank account instead?
	Maybe I don't trust them or something.
	I don't need to see their pink count.
	Yeah, I think you can see how she's doing financially, for sure.
	Okay, so you want to get married and have kids, right?
	Yeah.
	So a woman's bank account is not, I mean, the debt maybe, right?
	But the woman's bank account is not hugely relevant.
	Like, her earning potential is not particularly relevant if she's going to stay home and raise your children, right?
	Not earning, but spending more.
	Because if you have, like, $70,000 debt...
	Okay, we have to cast aside the debt.
	Okay, forget the debt.
	Because we're just talking about bank balances, right?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So it doesn't matter how much money she makes hugely, because she's going to stay home and raise your kids, right?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So, are you trying to figure out whether she's going to spend all your money if you get married?
	I'm starting to think that that's why I asked it, yeah, a little bit, yeah.
	If it's just going to do nothing, to doing like another study or, I don't know, stuff like that.
	Okay, so you're concerned, so I assume you make good money, right?
	Sort of.
	I'm starting now to make good money.
	Okay.
	And you have saved your money?
	Yeah.
	Last year I saved a lot and before that I always had a lot of money but because the company was going very bad at the moment I put in all my savings also to Keep paying the salaries and stuff.
	So that's why my savings dried up.
	I had, like, a little bit of crypto, but that's what I still have.
	Or I re-bought it, I think, four years ago, or two, three years ago, because I had sold, like, everything to...
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	So, you don't have much in the way of savings.
	I'm not...
	trying to be critical i'm just curious yeah yeah i know i have i think i have like now i in in like savings i feel you don't have to you don't have to give me the exact amount but uh it's not it's not like in the millions of euros right No, no, no.
	It's like they're starting now.
	Okay, so you're starting to save.
	Yeah.
	So, if a woman were to look at your bank account, And you've been working for half a decade or more.
	Would she think that you are good with money?
	No, but that's, I think, fun to talk about.
	Because until recently, we had a lot of debt.
	We still have a little, but now it's going pretty well.
	Sorry, we in the business?
	Yeah, and me.
	No, I didn't have any debt.
	I don't know.
	It's interesting.
	I think it was a big risk or something to put all my savings also into it.
	I don't know.
	I'm always curious if other people are also doing that or is it super stupid?
	I don't know.
	Stuff like that.
	So, how do you think a woman perceives you asking her her bank balance when you first meet her?
	How do you think the woman experiences that?
	I don't know.
	Yes, you do.
	Because you've done it to the point where your friend has commented on it, right?
	So, how do you think women experience this?
	What would he say?
	If I were to think of something, and I think something like that.
	I'm just going with the example you gave me.
	Let's not nitpick.
	I'm going with the example.
	I don't have any other information about you other than what you've told me.
	How do you think women experience this kind of bluntness?
	Hey, nice to meet you.
	What's your bank balance?
	I think very judgmental.
	But that was still...
	I don't do that anymore.
	I'm not really...
	Okay.
	You keep bringing up these problems and then you say it's not a problem.
	So I don't want to waste your time if you keep bringing up problems and then you say, but it's not a problem.
	Okay.
	I do still have that problem.
	I do still do that.
	Maybe it's not this bluntness.
	Maybe it's something else.
	But we're just going round and round here, right?
	Yeah.
	But I think bluntness is like a very big problem.
	But I... I'm not sure, because I feel like it's a personality thing of me.
	I'm very blunt.
	But yeah, I still do that, and I think that's a problem.
	How do they react?
	No, not how do they react.
	How do you think they experience it internally?
	very judgmental or that I sort of don't trust them or are they hiding something or something that I well I can't I can't know for sure but I would imagine that women would generally say okay so this guy works He's an entrepreneur.
	He wants to know my bank balance because he's afraid that I'm a gold digger.
	Or he's afraid that I'm going to try and chisel money out of him.
	Or we're going to get together and I'm going to ask him to pay my debt as my husband.
	Like, you're concerned that they would be financially predatory in some way.
	And I think that's an accurate observation, isn't it?
	Like, they're not wrong in that.
	You are afraid that the woman is going to be financially predatory in some fashion.
	You're going to end up having to pay off her student debts, or she's going to spend so much of your money as your wife.
	That you're going to have to work two jobs, or that there's some predatory aspect to female romantic desires.
	Yeah, and I ask about a lot of that kind of stuff, so not money related, but I think it's because I'm super nice if you get close to me, so I have to filter out a lot of...
	I have to be very blunt in the beginning with people, very direct.
	Something like that, I think.
	That's sort of what I do a little bit.
	So your concern is that you're too nice, and that's why you have to tell women immediately how suspicious you are.
	Yeah, because if they get through the barrier, then I don't know if I have a lot of defenses.
	Okay, let me repeat what I just said here, because I don't think you heard it.
	So you have to tell women, or you have to...
	Because you're so nice, you immediately have to tell women how suspicious you are of them robbing you blind.
	Yes.
	Okay, do you think it's nice that when you first meet someone, you tell them that you're afraid that they're going to rob you blind?
	No.
	So it's not nice, right?
	It's not nice.
	So the idea that you're doing all of this because you're so nice is not true.
	If I meet someone and I immediately put my wallet in a buttoned pocket because I say, listen, you're probably going to try and pickpocket my wallet, so I'm going to need to protect myself from you, is that a nice way to come across in the world?
	No.
	So where does the fear of female spending come from?
	I don't think it comes from my mother, because she is from my parents the most responsible.
	maybe not does it come from internet content Because there's a big internet movement of predatory women.
	Women just want your money.
	And some women, you know, like you see this Cardi B stuff and all they play out, just give me the money kind of stuff.
	Is there maybe some movie or some movement or some videos and so on that you've absorbed a lot of which talks about female financial predation?
	No, I don't.
	I think in real life.
	So I know, like most women I know, not all, but very much women I think are smart in the first.
	If you look at them and you talk to them, if they get a little bit of money, they spend it all on clothes and wine.
	So, yeah.
	And is it true of your friends' girlfriends as well?
	Not of that particular friend.
	I think he has like a...
	No, no, your friends as a whole, not a particular friend.
	Do your friends' girlfriends generally spend their money on dresses and wine?
	I mean, I don't mean that specifically, but on stuff that's not maybe very responsible.
	Or is this something your friends can do?
	A little bit.
	A little bit.
	I'm sorry?
	On average, a little bit.
	Okay, a little bit, but you spend money on robots.
	Yeah.
	Right, I mean, look, we all have a little bit of stuff we spend money on frivolously, so to speak, right?
	I mean, that's natural.
	Yeah.
	Otherwise, you're just like this financial machine, like a spreadsheet with no pleasures.
	You're like a robot yourself, right?
	You have to spend some money on some things that give you happiness and pleasure, right?
	Otherwise, what are you working for?
	I mean, before you have kids in particular, right?
	I don't really do.
	I also don't really do that.
	I don't really spend a lot of money on stuff that gives me pleasure.
	No, I get that.
	I get that.
	But you said your friends' girlfriends spent a little bit of money on wine and dresses.
	And now you're saying, well, I don't spend a lot of money, but that's a different category.
	Yeah.
	I spent very little money on...
	Does that make me happy?
	No, I do, because I spend it on the business.
	Okay.
	So, is it fair to say that you don't spend money at the gym?
	You don't spend a lot of money on clothing?
	You don't spend a lot of money on skincare?
	Would you consider these things frivolous?
	Yes.
	Not really, because gym is good, but I don't spend any money on that.
	On what?
	On skincare, how do you say it?
	The fitness… Yeah, so exercise and skincare and what about clothing?
	Do you spend much money on clothing?
	No, actually I think nothing.
	I do have nice clothes, but if I buy it, it's not that expensive.
	Recently I started to buy more expensive clothes.
	I always have cheap clothes and I do pull-ups from a wooden thing so I don't spend money on fitness.
	Maybe a little bit of time and I do everything very cheap outside of the business.
	Right, okay.
	So do you know what a woman's fear is or one of the great fears of women is?
	If she marries a guy and he makes the money, right?
	Because that's just typical, right?
	She marries the guy, he makes the money.
	Do you know what a woman's fear is, a pretty significant fear is, if she marries a guy and he controls the finances?
	That he cannot provide enough or that it's not stable?
	Sure, but I think it's fair to say that you...
	Are able to do that, right?
	Like you are able to provide.
	Yeah, okay.
	That I spend on a very expensive car or something.
	Well, yeah, that's true.
	But if you make enough money, whatever, right?
	So a woman's big fear is that she is responsible for running the household and her husband is really cheap.
	Okay.
	Do you understand?
	Starting to a little bit, I think.
	Okay, so imagine if some company bought your father's company and then put you on and said, you have to cut costs 75%.
	How would you feel?
	Probably the answer you want to hear is bad, but I don't really know how I would feel.
	I would be interested in...
	No, no, no.
	You have to figure it out.
	You have to cut all of your overhead, your costs, your salary, your rent, your taxes, all of that stuff.
	You have to cut everything 75%.
	That would be nice because we already tried to keep costs very low now to get out of debt.
	So that would not be good.
	Right.
	So that's a woman's experience of a cheap husband who controls the finances.
	That she's spending all of her time fighting with him to get things she needs for the household.
	And maybe some of those things are frivolous.
	So women love to make the house into a home.
	You need a woman to make the house into a home.
	You know that old meme that bachelors can live on a futon with a big screen TV. And an Xbox, right?
	I mean, they don't care about any of that.
	They don't care to make things pretty.
	They don't care to make things nice.
	And so women, the women love to beautify their environment.
	And the reason for that is that women spend a lot more time at home than they do at work when they're raising children, right?
	So women spend all of their time at home and they want to see beautiful things around, right?
	So women will want to beautify the house, and that costs money.
	Now, one of the reasons why women want to beautify the house is that it confers high status on the man.
	It's not a crazy thing to do at all, because in the business world, I mean, I don't know, I mean, you've been in the entrepreneurial world for most of your adult life, I guess, but certainly in my experience, If you want to do business deals with someone, you want to go to their house.
	Do you know why?
	To see if they are making money.
	To see if they have a quality wife, to see if they have not crazy expensive gold sinks and toilets, like Trump style or something, but they have nice stuff that they're in the middle of the bell curve when it comes to spending.
	Because if you're an overspender, that indicates a personality disturbance.
	If you're an underspender, that indicates a fear of the future.
	Because spending money is recognizing that you're mortal and you can't take it with you.
	It's having a balance in life as a whole.
	If you don't spend any money, that's not healthy.
	If you spend too much money, that's not healthy.
	It's like food.
	If you eat too little, you're malnourished.
	If you eat too much, you're obese.
	And so, also, if you get involved in someone in business, I personally want to see their house because I want to know if they trust their wife.
	Now, your first question upon meeting a woman is, I need to figure out if I can even have the possibility of trusting you.
	And what that means is that you don't trust yourself to pick a quality woman.
	That you need some objective numerical marker as to whether a woman might even remotely be in the category of trustworthy.
	And that means that you don't trust yourself.
	So when I was in the business world and I was evaluating who to do business with, I would go to their house.
	Now, if their house was filled with nice stuff, then I would recognize that this is a person who trusts his wife.
	If the wife says, we need X or Y or Z, he's like, I trust you.
	I love you.
	I want you to be happy.
	Here you go.
	Take the money.
	Spend it.
	Enjoy.
	That's a trust thing.
	Right?
	If the wife is not trusted by the husband, then I can't trust him.
	Because if he doesn't even trust his own wife, how's he going to trust me as a business partner?
	Does this make any sense?
	It makes a lot of sense.
	So a woman spending money on decorating the house is making her husband money.
	It's a status display that shows my husband has chosen a quality woman.
	He trusts me.
	I want to make the place beautiful.
	He trusts me to do it.
	And because he trusts me, he knows how to evaluate and trust people, so he's going to be a good person to go into business with.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, but I think not on the money side alone, but that's like in overall the problem.
	I don't trust myself to pick a quality woman.
	Well, sure.
	That's what I've been getting at.
	Yeah, you don't trust yourself.
	Yeah.
	That's why I said, why do you need to see the bank account?
	Why can't you judge the quality of her character?
	Yeah, I don't know.
	Because I don't know what...
	Well, you're trying to find external markers for internal morals.
	And, I mean, there are there, but they're not about bank accounts.
	So, for instance, you say that your friend's girlfriends spend frivolously on clothing, but they don't, unless it's in the extreme, because a woman knows that the man is going to be judged by how she looks.
	And let's just be frank about this.
	A guy with a hot girlfriend who's dressed nicely is high status.
	A guy with a girlfriend, even if she's physically attractive, who dresses badly, is low status.
	So a woman who dresses nicely, spends money on clothing, is raising the status of her husband or boyfriend in the same way that a man with a fat girlfriend is low status, I mean, a man with an overly muscular girlfriend, I don't know, seems in a whole different category.
	It's not particularly high status.
	But a man with a fit, attractive, slender girlfriend or wife is high status.
	Because a woman who gets fat in a marriage does so at the expense of her husband's desire and affection, which means she doesn't really care about him.
	And if you're willing to marry someone who doesn't really care about you, how can you have a successful business partnership?
	So you think that it's all this, well, you know, maybe the wine, I don't know, I'm not a big fan of alcohol, but you say, well, they spend frivolously on clothing.
	And I would argue, no, they don't.
	Any more than a woman spends frivolously in picking up nice knick-knacks for the house.
	Yeah, but I also don't get...
	I don't care about that thing.
	What thing?
	Vacations, but vacations is also status.
	I'm sorry, I'm not understanding what you're saying.
	I don't really mind them spending money on clothes.
	Okay, so we're back to this thing where I asked you for an example of something.
	Hang on, we're back on this thing.
	This is a real pattern for you.
	And I've got to tell you, it's really frustrating for other people.
	Right?
	It's like, to take an extreme example, it's like, because you're calling me because you're panicking a little, right?
	And then I'm asking you, what's the problem?
	You say, well, here's a problem.
	And then I go into the problem, you say, it's not a problem.
	Okay.
	It's kind of like you call emergency services.
	I need an ambulance!
	And then the ambulance comes over and you say, no, I'm fine.
	And then the ambulance goes away and you call and you say, I need an ambulance!
	And then the ambulance comes back and you say, no, I'm fine.
	It's an odd game that you're playing.
	Okay.
	I will try to not do it.
	You're calling me asking for help.
	I'm asking you what the issues are.
	You identify the issues, we talk about them, and then you say that they're not issues.
	Yeah, okay, there are issues.
	But the issue is, okay, the issue is that's two for me.
	I think it's like it's a little bit of a battle in my head between the two.
	On the one side, I want that, and on the other side, I don't want that.
	It being what?
	Like a girl who spends a lot of money on clothes, and of course I want a girl who spends a lot of money on making the house look nice.
	On the other hand, for some reason, I don't want that.
	I don't really know.
	The issues we're talking about are like the...
	Once I cannot figure out what I actually want.
	Yes, because this is solipsistic.
	This is just all about you.
	What do I... I don't want this and I want that.
	No, maybe I don't want a woman who spends too much on clothes, but I'm okay with a woman spending...
	Oh my gosh, man.
	You're missing the point.
	A relationship is when you love someone and if your wife wants to buy something, it's good because it makes her happy and you trust her.
	Not about what you want.
	You want her to be happy.
	So if she wants to buy something, right, you trust her and it makes her happy, so go for it.
	But you're all about, well, I don't know how I feel about this.
	It's all I, me, me, I, right?
	There's an isolation in this mindset.
	My wife buys things that are incomprehensible to me, but I like them.
	You know, there's no man alive who looks in the cutlery drawer and says, I really need all of this to match.
	Am I right?
	Yeah, you're right.
	Okay, women like stuff to match.
	How many men look at an empty room and say, we need a big table here and a lot of chairs and candlesticks that we rarely use?
	Yeah, I'm trying to get what...
	Men don't care about dining rooms, because we're out there building things.
	Men don't care about all these decorative pillows, and they don't care whether things match, or they don't care about whether the end tables have the same wood consistency.
	We don't care about that stuff.
	But women do, and we love the women, and it makes the women happy, and it actually is nicer when it's all done.
	Like, if you could snap your fingers and have your place look beautiful, you would, because it's nicer.
	But we don't put the effort in, because that's what women do.
	Yeah.
	So, if you love a woman, and she wants to buy something, even if it's incomprehensible to you, you say, go for it, because you trust her.
	In the same way that you might need to buy some pot for some robot you're building, does your wife understand it?
	No, but...
	Hang on, hang on.
	Let me finish my point.
	So you want to buy something your wife doesn't understand why you want it, right?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Is it okay?
	Hang on.
	I was thinking too hard.
	Is it?
	If you want to buy something your wife doesn't understand, right?
	Yeah.
	Is that okay?
	Can you buy it?
	Yeah, of course.
	And in reverse also, I would also not have a problem with that.
	Oh my gosh.
	So we're back to you saying that there's a problem that you're suspicious of...
	Hang on.
	You say that you have a problem that you're suspicious of women spending too much money.
	And now you're telling me it's not a problem at all.
	This is great.
	Honestly, like you're a force of nature, brother.
	The number of times you're setting me up.
	You're setting me up to solve a problem, and then you tell me it's not a problem.
	I don't have a problem with women spending money.
	That's why I'm asking them about their bank account.
	Do you see what you're doing here over and over?
	Steph, I have a problem.
	Oh, well, let's look at it this way.
	Well, no, it's not a problem.
	I don't have a problem with women spending money.
	Did I actually say that?
	Sorry, I'm sorry.
	You said, I said, hang on, I said, if you're spending something your wife doesn't understand, is that okay?
	And you said, yes, and it's fine the other way too.
	Yeah, and that's like in reverse of, because I said like a time ago, I said that it's not okay.
	I'm a little bit confused.
	So you're trying to find out if you can trust a woman, right?
	And in your trust of a woman, the first thing you want to do is look at her financial habits when she's young and single, right?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	And from that, you're hoping that you can extrapolate as to whether you can trust her to handle the family's finances when she's raising your children.
	Yeah.
	That I can trust her with...
	With your money?
	With the money you make when she's raising your children and running your household?
	Yeah.
	But I don't...
	Yeah.
	Yeah, that's...
	I... Yeah.
	You can't use that as a metric as to whether you can trust someone.
	Because a woman can easily fake being more responsible with money until she gets married to you and gets her hands on your money, and then she can start spending like crazy.
	It is not a metric by which you can judge someone perfectly or enough to trust them on other matters.
	Also, a woman might spend more money, and she should.
	She's going to spend more money when she's single.
	Why?
	Yeah, because she's going out and...
	She's going out to try to meet a man.
	She's getting her hairs done.
	She's getting her nails done.
	She's getting her mani-pedis.
	She's getting her teeth whitened.
	She's, you know, getting makeup.
	She's getting nice clothes.
	She's presenting herself well.
	So, of course, she's going to spend more money when she's young and single.
	So, you can't judge her by that.
	By, like, her judging you when you're investing into your company last year where you didn't save a penny.
	You're like, no, no, no, I'm investing.
	And then you look at these women's bank accounts and you say, well, you're not saving much money.
	That's because they're investing in their appearance in order to find a higher quality male.
	Yes.
	So you can't judge women according to their bank accounts.
	But then I'm going to say, I think, something that is going to do the same.
	So I'm trying to think of it.
	Let's say, is it in the best?
	Okay.
	How did your bank balance look last year?
	How did your bank balance look last year?
	Bad, right?
	How did your bank balance look last year?
	Last year, two years or three years ago, it was bad, three years ago.
	So could a woman judge you by that?
	I think also that's also wrong because I felt like it would be appropriate to judge me by that.
	And also before that.
	Because I was not going forward.
	Okay, so it would have been good for a woman to reject you a couple of years ago when you didn't save any money because you were saving your business.
	The answer is no, but I... What I want to say is yes.
	It would be a good idea to reject me for that.
	Okay.
	So your desirability goes up and down and your trustworthiness and desirability goes up and down depending on the fortunes of your father's business.
	Your quality as a mate is utterly dependent upon whether your father's business is making money or losing money.
	So a woman should date you when you're making money and then break up with you when you lose money.
	Can I try to explain what I think it is?
	It was not much sort of trust from outside that I could do something that would make money or that I would be...
	If I didn't study, then...
	It would all go wrong and I wouldn't make any money and if I just do what I do, it wouldn't work out.
	So that was a little bit what I felt.
	And that was also what was happening.
	So it was like really going bad and the thing I wanted to do to make money.
	So I didn't...
	It was more like to...
	I didn't think I was able to do it.
	Okay, you know, you're just rambling, right?
	No, okay.
	Yeah, you're just rambling.
	It's just a bunch of not...
	Am I right?
	No, you're just rambling because you're not answering my question.
	I mean, you called me for feedback and I'm trying to give you feedback.
	Okay, so yeah, I was trying to explain something in the middle.
	Yeah, I don't...
	I understand that you invested in your business.
	I respect you for that, for what that's worth.
	Good for you.
	But you said that the woman should reject you a couple of years ago, Because you didn't save any money.
	In fact, you probably went into debt in order to save your father's business, right?
	Yes.
	So you should be rejected or accepted based upon the business conditions of your father's balance sheet, right?
	If your father's business is making money, then you're a desirable mate.
	And if your father's business is losing money and you invest just to keep it afloat, then you are an undesirable mate and that's bad.
	And you agreed with that.
	That the woman should reject you if you were doing badly financially.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	So, in other words, if you are making money, hang on, if you're making money, she should date you.
	If you're losing money, she should break up with you.
	Yeah.
	That is, like, the core of the problem that I feel, like, that I have, like, the...
	I've heard something when I can actualize my ID. Okay.
	So my wife should have left me when I got deplatformed.
	Is that right?
	No.
	Well, why not?
	My head comes down enormously.
	I'm trying to put it in a sentence.
	I did not...
	Proof then that I could make something that would be able to make money on my own.
	I didn't feel like I was worth it.
	Now I do.
	Okay, but the business could go badly again, right?
	Yeah, but then at least I know that it's solvable.
	At that time, I could not...
	Get my head around if it was solvable or if it wasn't.
	Okay, so sorry.
	If the business problems are not solvable, then you lose value again.
	again, is that right?
	I feel like the feeling I have is yes, but the correct answer is, of course, no.
	But that's like the problem I have, I think.
	The problem is, you don't know what value you have to add except money.
	Which is why you ask for the woman's bank balance and are eager to talk about yours.
	That's crass.
	It's kind of trashy to say that the major value that I provide is money.
	Now, as a provider, you have to provide money, for sure.
	But the major value you have to add is not money.
	Because any thief or central banker can provide money, right?
	You could counterfeit money.
	You could steal people's crypto.
	But that's not good.
	So it's not that the mere provision of money is the major value you provide.
	And you're trying to find a way to buy your way into a woman's heart rather than have her admire you for your virtues.
	So the reason why the bank account thing is offensive is because it's saying to a woman, I want to buy you.
	And I need to compare our balance sheets because in this corporate merger, I don't want to take on excessive liabilities.
	It's just about money.
	It's not about love.
	It's not about desire.
	It's not about virtue.
	is not about honor or dignity or integrity.
	It's about cold, hard cash.
	and then we'll see you next time.
	And that's going to make women run for the hills, and they should.
	I think also.
	So why is a marriage, whether you get married or not, we'll just talk about the term.
	Why is a marriage about cash?
	You've got to get that from somewhere, right?
	What do I have to get from somewhere?
	The cash?
	Well, the idea that the primary, if not the sole value that the man brings to the table is a stack of money.
	You've got to have that idea from somewhere.
	Did your mother marry your father for money?
	I don't think so.
	Well, he was older, he was a businessman, he was successful, and he hired her.
	So was his income far higher than hers?
	At that time?
	I think so.
	Yes, I think so.
	Thank you.
	Okay.
	So, she made money, in a sense, by getting married.
	Or by getting together with your dad?
	How has your mother weathered the downturns in your father's business, which are inevitable?
	you I actually think not good, but also not that bad.
	It was not like a thing to break apart over, I think.
	It was stressful, but it was not...
	They are still together now, and it went super bad a couple of years ago.
	Okay, so what did she do when the business went through its tough times?
	Which all businesses do, right?
	What did your mother do?
	do?
	How did she react?
	She came and helped.
	Thank you.
	Okay, you said...
	I'm looking for the negative stuff, sorry.
	I was unclear.
	You said that she had some negative experiences.
	When your father's business ran into tough times.
	I think they...
	But they don't fight a lot, so they probably had, like...
	Brother, brother, listen.
	I asked how your mother handled it, and you said not well.
	Oh, sorry, did I say not well?
	I mean, I meant, like, not really...
	it was not that bad the handling sorry I don't know sorry no listen I understand there's a bit of an electric barrier so I'm not going to My understanding was that you said, I said, how did your mother handle when your father's business had trouble?
	And you said, not well.
	Now, maybe you meant to say not too badly, or it was fine, but was it negative for her?
	In other words, was there any diminishment of affection?
	Or any kind of diminishment in commitment or anything like that.
	Yes, yes, yes.
	Okay, sorry.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	I think, yeah.
	But I'm not, like, totally sure on what level it was.
	It was like you could measure, you could feel it a little bit, that there was, like, there was, like, a little bit less attraction or something.
	Okay.
	So then your mother dials up and down to some degree.
	Your mother dials up and down her affection based on how much money your father is making.
	Probably, yeah.
	Okay.
	So that would explain why you view money as the fuel for pair bonding.
	Yeah.
	Maybe, yeah.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I think so.
	I also think so.
	I am the one who is now...
	The only one who is actually focusing on money in the company and making spreadsheets and when we can pay off the debts and stuff and how much money will be left in...
	Sorry, what does that have to do with your parents?
	Now that I'm hyper-focused on money now recently because if I didn't then...
	Sorry, if you didn't, what would happen?
	Okay, so let's say that your father's business goes bankrupt.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	What happens to your parents' marriage?
	Or let me just call it a marriage for whatever it's been together so long.
	I think they would stay together.
	Only my mother would not be that happy about it.
	And my dad wouldn't really mind living smaller than my mother would.
	Okay.
	So...
	Your father, to some degree, has to pay for your mother's love.
	Yeah, maybe.
	Yeah, that's a pretty harsh point.
	I'm trying to...
	That's why I said to some degree.
	I'm not saying 100%, but to some degree.
	Yeah, to some degree, but not...
	Yeah.
	Okay, let me ask you the most essential question about your parents' marriage or any relationship.
	If your mother...
	Hmm, let me figure out the best way to put this, right?
	If your father came to your mother and said, we can maintain or increase our standard of living, but I'm going to have to do some questionable things.
	Not totally illegal, not totally bad, but I'm just going to have to make some promises I'm not sure I can fulfill.
	I'm going to have to do some kind of shady stuff that I'm not super comfortable with, and if I don't do this stuff, our income is going to get cut by 75% or 50%.
	Would your mother rather have the money at the cost, a little bit, of your father's integrity, or would she say, I'm willing to give up half the income in order for you to keep a clean conscience?
	I think he would go for the money.
	Right.
	Because that is sort of what is happening.
	Yeah.
	A little bit.
	No, because everyone faces that in business every day.
	You know this.
	Everyone faces that in business every day.
	Do I tell the truth and lose money?
	Or do I bend the truth and make money?
	I mean, I think I, of most people in the world, have most publicly made that choice, right?
	I told the truth, and it cost me, well, a lot, right?
	Yeah, very cool.
	Well, I mean, the people around me would infinitely rather I have a good conscience and less money than more money and a bad conscience.
	And I would give up a lot.
	To have a good conscience.
	Because if I don't have a good conscience, how can I be loved?
	I mean, having a good conscience means that you are happy and pleased with yourself, and you respect your own decisions, and you can't ask for more affection from others than you're willing to provide to yourself.
	You can't ask for more respect from others than you have for yourself.
	So if your mother would choose money, Over virtue, then you have a problem, and this is why you don't date.
	The reason you don't date is that you want to not end up in the situation that your father is in, where you have to throw money at a woman in part to get her affection, because that's kind of gross.
	Yeah, that's very gross.
	Okay?
	So you are going to have to criticize that in your own mind and heart.
	It doesn't have to be to your parents.
	You just have to know in your own mind and your own heart, that's not what I want.
	I don't think it's particularly noble for a man to buy his wife's love.
	No.
	And so you don't have a way to trust women because you're viewing every woman through the lens of your mother.
	And you're saying, well, if I want the love of a woman, she better not be in debt.
	Because if she's in debt, I have to give my money to whoever lent the money.
	That's less for her, so she'll love me less.
	She better have a bank account, because she's a spender.
	I'm going to have to subsidize that, or she won't love me.
	Now, this goes back to your mother.
	When she was 25 years old, she'd been dating this guy who was the drinker and the smoker for five years.
	I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the 32-year-old entrepreneur who was your father made a hell of a lot more money than the partying, drinking, 25-year-old high school boyfriend of your mother's.
	I have to be honest.
	I don't actually think...
	Yeah, maybe at the time it's true.
	I think now that guy makes more money.
	No, no, no.
	Did it say now?
	I said we're going back.
	Forget now.
	Forget now.
	Then.
	So she made the decision to jump ship...
	Okay, her boyfriend, was he better looking than your father?
	Yeah, by one point, maybe.
	So she gave up some looks in order to go for the guy with more money.
	She says that it's because it was more interesting, because it was not that service level.
	Because my dad talks about more stuff, and he is more like a farmer.
	Right.
	I'm not saying that's the only reason that she was attracted to him.
	I'm not saying that's the only basis for their relationship.
	But she dials up and down her affection based upon his business success.
	And honestly, to me, that's just kind of gross.
	And that makes a man feel like a workhorse.
	Who's loved only for the money he hands over.
	And it turns the woman into a little bit of a word I won't mention here, but I'm sure we can all figure that one out.
	A little bit, right?
	Because you have to love the virtue in the person.
	Because there's great insecurity in being loved for your money, because there's always a richer guy.
	And even if you're the richest guy, Elon Musk or something, There's some other guy who's going to give more time and attention because he's not working 18 hours a day.
	So, if you are loved for your virtues and who you are, essentially, then you can weather these storms and there's much less up and down in your marriage.
	Those are the very good points, I think.
	So, you need to find a way to trust women outside of your ability to provide.
	Because your ability to provide is kind of out of your control directly.
	Let me sort of explain what I mean by this.
	So, in order to love someone, you have to trust them.
	Now, you can't trust someone if what you love about them is not under their control.
	So, for instance, whether I tell the truth or not is under my control.
	Whether I act with integrity or not is under my control.
	I mean, there's pressures and there's influences and pluses and minuses, but it's fundamentally under my control.
	Does that make sense?
	Yeah.
	Now, how much money I make, I have some influence over it, but it is not directly under my control.
	Yeah, true.
	I agree.
	I mean, the economy goes up and down.
	Interest rates go up and down.
	Inflation goes up and up.
	There's COVID, there's lockdowns, there's deplatforming, there's any wide variety of things.
	The economy as a whole can go hard, which is tough then for everybody's income, right?
	So how much money you make, you can influence it, but it's not directly under your control.
	Your virtues are under your control.
	Yeah, very true.
	So if you love someone for her virtues, Then you can trust them because they have shown reasonably consistent good moral decisions.
	I don't know what perfect moral decisions are.
	I don't think that standard exists.
	But they've shown reasonably positive and consistent moral decisions.
	And so what you love about them, their virtues, is under their control and they have a good track record.
	If it's money, though, it comes and goes.
	It comes and goes.
	Sometimes you're up, sometimes you're down, sometimes you're sideways, right?
	I mean, I have a lot of entrepreneurs, as you can imagine, in my social circle, and, you know, it's quite a rollercoaster.
	I mean, I have friends who invested in, I won't even say what it is, but something that turned out to be completely destroyed by COVID. Now, could they have seen that coming?
	No.
	So if the woman, if the wife in that relationship loved her husband because of its ability to make money, Well, the fact that COVID and lockdowns and all this nonsense hit meant that he couldn't make any money.
	So does that mean she's not going to love him?
	It's not his fault.
	It's not under his control that COVID comes along, right?
	Yeah.
	No, I totally understand it.
	It's like the most stressful thing to be judged for because it can fall away or it can be super high.
	And sometimes you give up money in order.
	and so if your mother would choose money over your father's integrity she's actually choosing that which is more variable which means she can't trust him or herself and she's also actually costing herself love
	she is selling her love for money because if your father ends up compromising some business integrity or some virtue for the sake of making money then she will actually love and respect him less And this is probably why he has a more feminine role in the relationship as a whole, as you mentioned, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It's not like...
	It's true, but it's not like...
	100% true.
	It's not like black and white.
	Okay.
	Listen, brother, you've got to listen to people.
	It's crazy.
	You're having a conversation with yourself.
	Do you remember how many caveats I put in?
	To some degree, a little bit, right?
	Do you remember me saying all of that?
	Yeah, you do.
	Do you remember?
	I very clearly said, I'm not saying that's the only reason they got together.
	Okay.
	So this is the problem, is this is why it's hard for you to have relationships, because you don't listen sometimes.
	I'm very careful in what I say.
	I put a lot of caveats in.
	Do you remember all of those?
	Saying, there's no way it's 100%, it's only a 9 degree, it's only a little bit, it's only a factor, right?
	And then you come back at me saying, well, Steph, but it's not 100%, when I was very careful over the last 20 minutes to tell you exactly that it wasn't 100%.
	You're right.
	You're right.
	So when I put that much effort into being clear in my communications and then you pretend to completely misunderstand me, do you know what most people do?
	They say, this is too much work.
	He doesn't listen.
	It doesn't matter what I say.
	He's just going to hear what he wants to hear.
	This is not a two-way street.
	He's not listening to me.
	So why would I talk?
	And this is what women will experience with you.
	I guarantee you.
	Women will say you stuff that they very carefully say, they carefully make sure they're being fair, and you just take it to a ridiculous extreme and rebut a total straw man.
	Because I never said it was 100%.
	In fact, I was very, very careful to say it was not a huge factor, it was a small part.
	So then when you come back and say, yes, but Steph, it's not 100% when I've already said it's only 10% or 20% maybe, or something there too, what you're telling people very clearly is, I don't listen, I'm having a conversation with myself, And what you say doesn't really matter.
	Now, is a woman of quality who wants to have a great conversation for the rest of her life, which is that what marriage is.
	Marriage is a great conversation for the rest of your life.
	Is a woman of quality when you clearly express, well, first of all, you complain about problems and then say that they're not problems, and then you rebut something that was never said, which shows you're disconnected from the actual conversation.
	woman going to look forward to that for the rest of her life?
	No.
	So that's what you need to fix.
	And you can't fix it by asking for a woman's bank balance.
	That's my point.
	That's a very good point.
	So learning to listen without being defensive, without fighting a fight that nobody's fighting except you, right?
	I never said your parents were 100% based on money.
	In fact, I was very careful.
	And then you come back.
	And it's good that you did that.
	I'm not mad that you did that because...
	That's the challenge, right?
	So, in your family, and we can sort of, I know we've talked for a long time, we've been close on this point, but in your family, how good is the listening?
	How good is the listening?
	I would say it's good, but I don't think it anymore.
	No.
	I don't really know.
	Yeah, I mean, because probably three or four times I pointed out that you kept bringing problems to my attention and then saying that they weren't problems, but you just kept doing it.
	Remember, I was sort of laughing and said, you're like a force of nature with this repetition?
	Yes, I remember that.
	Right, so that means you're not listening to what I'm saying and saying, oh, well, this is not productive and it's annoying, so I should stop doing it.
	You just did it.
	You just kept doing it, right?
	Which means that the giving and receiving of information is not great in your household growing up.
	It can't have been, because otherwise you'd be better at this.
	And I'm not criticizing in any foundational way.
	I'm just saying that this is a skill set that's not very advanced, if that makes sense.
	That's very good to hear.
	That's a nice, concrete thing to start to fix.
	And can you imagine how great it's going to be in the business world?
	If you improve your listening skills as a whole?
	That would be a good...
	I mean, you could make a fortune.
	If you're a competent businessman and you can improve your listening skills, then...
	Because customers are telling you what they want all the time, right?
	Yeah.
	And if you genuinely are listening, then...
	I mean, the way that I work these conversations is you've listened to these call-ins before, so I know for certain...
	That everything you're telling me that is provocative is a cry for help because you know I'm going to call you on it, right?
	So when I say it's only a small factor and you say, well, it's not 100%, you know for a fact I'm going to call you on it, right?
	And I'm not going to do it in a mean or abusive way, but I'm going to be pretty direct.
	Does that make sense?
	So if you listen to a woman, she will tell you whether she's trustworthy or not.
	But because you have trouble sometimes listening, which we all do, I mean, please understand, I'm not perfect at this either, without a doubt, right?
	So I'm right down there with you, right?
	So people tell you everything you need to know about them in the first few minutes.
	So if you really, really listen to a woman, you will find out very quickly if you can trust her or not.
	Does she show genuine interest in what you say?
	If you say something that's false or annoying, does she push back in a reasonable, Does she generally make good decisions in her life?
	Or, if she's made bad decisions, which we all have, has she learned from them?
	Does she have a reasonably clear moral map of her life?
	In other words, people who did the right and wrong things, just as she did the right and wrong things, just as you and I do the right and wrong things, does she have a reasonable moral map?
	And what I mean by that is, if she had a father who beat her and never apologized to her, does she say, But I love him and we have a great relationship, right?
	That would be a bad moral map, right?
	That would be like, well, the lion keeps mauling me, but I go and feed it and hug it anyway.
	Well, that's just not having any sense of danger and, in fact, putting yourself in repetitive danger.
	Is she like an NPC? Does she have talking points?
	If you bring up something unusual or something original, does she kind of skid to a halt like a train, jump in the tracks and just go crash into the ditch or something?
	Does she have the ability to think and process information in real time?
	Is she easily offended?
	Right?
	Which means that she's substituted propaganda for a genuine emotional life, right?
	So, I mean, these are just ways in which you can talk with people.
	Is she an open listener?
	Is she curious about you?
	Does she reveal things about herself that make sense?
	Like, I've always wanted to be a writer.
	Oh, what have you written?
	Well, nothing really.
	Okay, like, just things that don't add up or make sense.
	Is her life generally consistent?
	I mean, these are just sort of rough guidelines, but all of these things...
	I'm going to give you way more information than her bank balance.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	Yeah, I think the negative part of listening is actually pretty good for me.
	Only the positive, like hearing the positive stuff is not good or something.
	Is that possible or am I just doing the same thing again?
	I'm not sure what you mean by negative parts of listening.
	All the negative stuff you just said, I always hear that in...
	I've been listening to girls.
	I always hear those things like they go to like a thing that you always hear on the news or they have like some weird thing that happened in the youth but they still love my parents.
	That's always stuff I hear.
	But I think I'm not good at hearing the positive stuff.
	But if you heard and were able to identify the negative, then you wouldn't need to ask for the bank.
	Okay, okay.
	So if you ask for the bank account, it means you still have doubt as to whether they're responsible.
	Now, the fact that people repeat stuff from the news, the fact, like, you're a young man, and so a young woman your age, roughly your age, she's going to have inconsistencies, she's going to have a somewhat muddled moral map.
	And she's going to have some NPC talking points.
	Why?
	Because you do, because I do, because everyone does, particularly at that age.
	So we don't listen for, oh, there's an inconsistency here, and therefore we abandon, right?
	Because that's to say, I'm perfect, and everyone else is flawed.
	So you have inconsistencies in your mind map, so will the young...
	And that's just a feature of youth, and there's nothing wrong with that, because it's one of the things that allows young people to be fearless and...
	And ambitious is that they're a little bit delusional, and sometimes that delusion stuff can produce great things, right?
	So I have no problem with that, but the problem is if you're sitting there being in a judgment position, right?
	If you say, well, this woman, she said something from the mainstream media, right?
	She talked about, I don't know, Trump told people to drink bleach.
	I don't know, whatever the equivalent would be where you are, right?
	So some talking point, okay.
	So she's got a talking point.
	So what?
	So do you.
	So do I sometimes, right?
	We're all completely free of the talking points.
	So it's not, does she have talking points?
	I write her off.
	No, I mean, yeah.
	Ideological.
	You can hear if somebody is super, like...
	Well, you just, what you do is you provide some counter information and see how they handle it.
	And if they're like, well, that can't be true.
	But, you know, maybe you're right.
	Let's look it up together and, oh my gosh, that is right.
	Oh my gosh.
	Trump didn't tell people to drink bleach.
	Well, that's interesting, right?
	I didn't know that, right?
	So it's not whether they have these talking points or whatever.
	It is a question of how do they deal with new information?
	Now, if they're just like, well, here's a counter-talking point, and they say, well, you're just a far-right fascist.
	It's like, okay, well, then you don't need to ask for their bank account because you don't want to be in a relationship with them because they're already in a relationship with their boyfriend is the media, right?
	And they'll never cheat with you.
	They'll never cheat on the media with you.
	So, I guess I would be concerned that the moment you see any kind of red flag, you ditch or you bail or you judge or you distance, right?
	Now, only very unhealthy women would chase your approval in that way.
	Because when you judge people as woefully deficient and so on and never give them a chance because they put one foot wrong, Well, that's not attractive because, you know, you put feet wrong.
	I put feet wrong.
	We say things that we regret.
	We say things that are wrong.
	We say things that are mistakes.
	I've got a whole series called I Was Wrong About dot dot dot, right?
	So I can't be in a relationship where I have to be perfect because that's kind of vainglorious on the part of the other person because they're only judging me because they have this weird delusion that they're perfect and that's just not true and I don't want to bother pleasing people who are deluded and I'm not calling you fundamentally deluded.
	I'm just saying that if you have this judgment side.
	Then part of it is communicating you're deficient, which means I'm way better, right?
	Like if you go and learn tennis, it has to be from somebody who knows tennis really, really well, right?
	And they'll be judging you and you'll accept their correction, but that's not a relationship of equals.
	And a confident woman does not want to be in a subservient relationship to a guy who thinks he's perfect, because that's just exhausting and the person will never grow and they'll just be judging you forever and that's no fun, right?
	Okay.
	That's a good point.
	Okay, okay.
	And I have to, the last thing is that I have to couple the making money stuff away from my worth.
	Yes, I think, well, I mean, you do have to provide money to a woman.
	And children, right?
	You do have to do that.
	I mean, if you're going to work and she's going to stay home, assuming she's not independently wealthy, you're going to have to provide some resources.
	But you can't be loved for your money because the money is not directly under your control.
	And in order to trust someone, they have to love you for who you are.
	Because who you are is kind of permanent.
	And, you know, you'll make good or bad decisions, but you generally will correct your course, right?
	But the money is...
	Not under your control.
	And sometimes the two are at odds.
	So sometimes you have to give up the money in order to retain your integrity.
	And if the woman loves you for your integrity, she will tell you, don't take the money.
	Walk away from the money.
	Give up the money.
	We'll find a way to make it.
	But I don't want you to get paid to cross your conscience.
	So a good woman will tell you, Walk away from the money.
	I want you, and I want you to be happy, and I want you to have a good relationship with your conscience, and I want to admire you.
	I don't want the money.
	Now that, to me, is real love.
	And also what I want, so I don't know why I... I just like that.
	Well, I mean, I think, listen back to this, and we did talk about your mother and your father, that your mother has a bit more of a love for money than integrity, and that may be something that you can examine within your own family of origin, because that's the template through which I think you would view women as a whole.
	Yeah.
	Okay, thank you very much.
	Thanks a lot.

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