All Episodes
Previous Next
Feb. 19, 2025 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux
02:09:02
Stop Being Ruled by IDIOTS! Freedomain Call In
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
Welcome to the impromptu Telegram livestream on the 12th of February 2025. If you have questions, comments, issues, criticisms, I am beyond thrilled to hear what you have to say.
And let's just double-check in here to see.
Yeah, it's unmuted, so we're good.
Everyone can hear, I think.
So, if you have questions, comments, issues, criticisms, I'm happy to hear them.
And you can just, I think you have, I'm not sure what the tech is at the moment, whether you need to raise your hand or not.
You can just let me know.
And I would be happy to hear what you have to say.
And if you just want to listen, that's absolutely fine too.
Alright, so let's just check and make sure here that...
Audio going good, audio going good.
Alright, so, while we're waiting for that, this is some brutal stuff.
This woman wrote, five-year relationship, won't commit.
So she says, I'm not sure what to do anymore.
I, 28-year-old female, I've been with my boyfriend, 27-year-old male, for five years now.
I've known him for eight years and he's still saying he is struggling to commit any further into the relationship with marriage, kids, etc.
We have a wonderful relationship.
He's my best friend and all we do all day is love.
We've been living together for nearly four years and we still have the best time together every day.
Our friends and family love each other and love us together and there's nothing That I can pinpoint that is wrong in our relationship, that he would struggle this much to commit.
Every time I bring up this conversation, it's like pulling teeth, and he only gives me cryptic answers.
He never freely brings up the future of our relationship.
I'm trying to live in the now.
Our day-to-day lives are full of love and happiness, but I'm so scared I'm spending the best years of my life with someone who will eventually say they don't want anything more.
I want marriage and children.
Well, that's an oof.
That is a serious oof.
Now, I'm going to challenge the men here as a whole.
I'll tell you why.
So, there is a general significant amount of hand-wringing that is occurring in the realm of why The men are not committing to women, right?
Why are they avoiding marriage and children and all that kind of stuff?
And listen, men, I understand.
I mean, I really do.
I get it.
I get it.
The state has involved itself in marriage and, you know, if you've ever seen that meme, it's a fairly bitter meme, but a pretty powerful one.
It's the meme that says, here's the housing for women who can't afford to pay for their kids, and it's like a free government apartment and so on, right?
And then they say, and here's the housing for men who can't afford to pay for their kids, and it's a jail cell.
I get it.
I get it.
And women can walk out and accuse you of things.
They can sort of take half your stuff.
I get all of that, and I sympathize with it.
I understand it.
Not in an abstract way.
I mean, this is what happened with my family, my parents.
So, I get it.
And here's the problem, though.
Well, just one of the many problems.
So, One of the great things about knowing about history is the joys of comparison.
The joys of comparison.
So now, yes, it's true.
If you marry the wrong woman, if you marry a woman without virtues and morals, she might take you to the cleaners.
And, you know, I get in America, like, 12 men every day kill themselves.
Largely over custody battles and child access and all that kind of stuff.
So, I am not minimizing the risk.
What I am going to tell you, though, is that the risk is not singular to the modern world.
And the great challenge with risks is that they give you excuses.
The great challenge of risks is that they give you excuses.
And they shouldn't.
They should give you alertness.
They should give you the mitigation of risk.
But they should not eliminate your desire to take risks.
That means that danger is not something you need to plan around or plan for.
Danger is now, or then in that mindset, simply becomes a paralytic.
If somebody said, I will give you a million dollars to climb this mountain, let's assume that it was not a mountain that you needed months and months, or years and years of preparation to climb.
You know, it wasn't, I don't know, Mount Everest or whatever it was, right?
If somebody said to you, I'll pay you a million dollars, man.
You gotta climb this mountain.
Well, what you would do is you would say, okay, well, a million bucks is pretty good.
So I'll figure out, I obviously don't want to freeze to death or fall to my death, so I'll figure out what I need to do in order to stay safe.
If you've ever been rock climbing, whether it's in a sort of rock climbing gym or maybe out in the wild, Well, what do you do?
Well, you have this thing, I think it's called a belay, and it catches you if you fall.
I didn't do that in Africa when I climbed, including overhangs without any kind of equipment.
It was absolutely mad, but I did not have a great sense of risk when I was younger.
Everything was less risky than my childhood.
So if somebody said, climb this mountain for a million bucks, You'd figure out how to do it in a way that minimized or eliminated, as much as possible, the risks, right?
You'd get some training, you'd get a guide, you'd get your crampons, you would get your belay, and you would make it up the mountain.
Get your oxygen tanks, if that's what you needed, and you would make it up the mountain.
And the reason you would do that is for the million dollars.
In other words, what you would be doing is you'd be saying, of course, there's some risk in climbing this mountain, but there's also risk in not having the million dollars.
And some of that risk is financial and practical, and some of it is emotional and regret-based.
If you were broke and somebody said, I don't know, Squid Game style, somebody said, here's a million dollars to climb this mountain, and you said, no, the mountain's too scary.
Then you would sit there for the rest of your life saying, man, I could be a million bucks up, but I punked out on the mountain thing.
So there's that risk of regret as well.
Now, the reason I'm mentioning all of this is that the sort of controlled opposition of a lot of the manosphere gives you risks without context.
They give you risks without context.
Ways in which people completely screw up your mind is they'll say, oh, you want to climb this mountain?
You know what?
Like, 5% of people get really injured climbing mountains, man.
They just give you this context-less piece of data, right?
And there's 5% of people or, you know, like 5% of mountaineers or 10% of mountaineers get seriously injured or killed doing mountaineering, right?
Now, remember, every statistic involving risk also involves complete freaking idiots.
Let me say this again once more for the crowd in the back.
Every single piece of data involving risk Also includes idiots.
So, when I was a kid, I had a friend who was a complete dangerous idiot on his bike.
And he had a really nice bike.
It had shocks and everything.
And he would ride off...
He would ride along train tracks at super high speed.
He would ride off bridges into water.
He would ride off...
He was a lunatic and an idiot when it came to risk.
In fact, he ended up later dying in a motorcycle accident, which was one of the most blandly predictable things known to man.
So if you were to say, well, gee, you know, guys who get into dirt bikes get injured a lot, and it's like, well, does that include the idiots?
Does that include the idiots who drive off walls onto gravel?
Does that include the idiots who don't wear helmets?
Does that include the idiots who don't wear any kind of protection and do the most insanely dangerous stuff?
Let's think about boys and girls on bikes.
Boys on bikes are death magnets, because what do we want to do?
Well, every boy who has a bike builds a ramp.
And the girls don't.
The girls coast along serenely with their hair in the wind, and the boys are building Evel Knievel across the Grand Canyon death ramps and courting a significant injury.
So if you were to say to the girls, ooh, you know, a lot of kids get injured on bikes, it's like, does that include the idiots?
Say, oh, you're going to climb this mountain, you know.
A lot of people get injured climbing mountains.
First question, are you including the idiots?
Are you including the idiots?
As I was when I was in Africa climbing ridiculous mountainsides with no protection.
That was idiotic.
I'm not blaming myself.
I'm just saying that's a fact.
Jack was idiotic.
You know, half of every business fails.
Half of every new business fails within the first couple of years.
Yes.
Does that include idiots?
Never, ever, ever, ever put your risk assessment at the mercy of absolute morons.
Okay, so people get injured climbing mountains, so Okay, does that include people who have trained?
Does that include people who respect the rules of danger?
Does that include the people who use belays?
Does that include the people who only go with experts?
Probably not.
It's like, you know, people die of lung cancer.
Does that include smokers?
Yes.
Well, then shut up, because I'm not a smoker, so I think I'm okay.
Now, society, um, idiots within society, will tell you the risks of things without telling you whether they're including the absolute mouth-breathing retarded morons who do stupid things and screw up the statistics for everyone else.
You know, half of marriages end in divorce.
Does that include the idiots?
Does it?
Does that include the people who are repeat marital whores and gigolos?
Does that include people who get married in Vegas when they're drunk?
Does that include people who impregnate others out of carelessness?
Does that include people who don't have any filtering mechanism for values and virtues?
Does that include people who are well-educated in the subject of marriage?
Hey, does that include people who take premarital counseling?
Does that include people who've dealt with their childhoods?
Does that include all of that?
If you marry a well-educated woman who's not been ran through like a victim of Zorro, and you filter for virtues and values, well-educated simply means, doesn't necessarily mean she's got a postgraduate degree or anything, it just means somebody who reads, somebody who's intelligent.
So if you marry a not excessively Used up woman.
And you filter for virtues and values.
And she is intelligent and reasonably educated, whether it's self or other.
Your odds of divorce drop to the low single digits.
Half of marriages end in divorce.
Okay, does that include people?
Who are like, she's hot, I'm going to marry her.
She's bipolar, but that makes her great in bed, I'll marry her.
Like, does that include that?
Does that include the women who marry for looks, height, status, not virtue?
So anybody who gives you data without subtracting the morons is sabotaging your life.
Right?
Half of all businesses fail.
Okay, does that include the businesses wherein people have some experience, some education, some training, or at least have read a bunch of books?
Does that include the people who've done the market research, who have a stable line of financing, who have some expertise, who have access to a good network?
Does that include all the people who plan properly and take good steps for their business to succeed?
Or does that also include people who are just like, hey, I've got an idea, and they just start throwing money at it with no clue about what they're doing?
So there's all of these, you understand, right?
There are all these scare statistics floating around based on throwing morons into the mix.
You know, a certain number of people Die from eating X. Okay, does that include the people who find it by the side of the road when it's furry and eat it anyway?
Does that include people who are poisoned by some bitter girlfriend or wife?
Does that include idiots?
So, the real risk in life, given that people who listen to this show are not idiots, but the real risk in life...
Okay, subtract the idiots and let's see how we're doing.
I did not get injured on my bike as a teenager because I wasn't driving off walls or building giant elaborate ramps and trying to ride over them.
If you subtract the idiots, which you are not, and I am not, at least not anymore, I hope, what are the numbers if you subtract the idiots?
Well, this chick was totally unstable but hot.
She got pregnant.
I got married to her.
Okay, so subtract that from the marital statistics, and what have you got?
You have almost no chance of getting divorced if you marry an intelligent woman and filter for virtues and values.
But what you're doing is you're letting the idiots scare you into paralysis.
Well, I heard these terrible numbers.
Yeah.
I get that.
It's like including drunk drivers In the general statistics of how dangerous it is to drive a car, yeah, drunk drivers crash a lot.
But if you mix in the statistics of drunk drivers with how dangerous it is to drive a car, or people texting, right?
If you include idiots in the data, and you don't subtract those in your own mind, you will end up with your entire life being run By the increased risks caused by idiots when you're not, not in fact an idiot.
You know how many people get cut by knives?
Well, do you include criminals and people who are learning how to juggle and blind people?
Like, come on.
When I look at data, I always ask myself, does this include the idiots?
Does this include the unwise?
Does this include the impulsive?
Does this include those who don't listen to reason?
Does this include those who don't do any research?
In other words, are you giving me the risk factors of an activity based upon people who are too stupid to be cautious or too unwise to be cautious?
It's important to know.
Thank you.
It's important to know.
I have never started a business that failed.
Because I kind of know what I'm doing.
And when I don't know what I'm doing, I hire expertise.
You know, I was talking to a guy not too long ago who was, I won't get into the details, but he wanted to open up a business that was going to be in more than one country but he wanted to open up a business that was going And he's like, oh, it's so complicated.
I'm like, yeah, that's why you hire your lawyers and your accountants to make it work.
Well, that's expensive.
Yes.
And it's expensive for everyone.
It's, you know, there's this great phrase, cost of doing business.
It's the cost of doing business.
It's just the cost of doing business.
My microphone is expensive.
Yeah, that's the cost of doing business.
It's a largely audio-based medium, so...
So I have a 100% success track record in businesses I've joined or started.
Does that mean that I'm just lucky?
I mean, yes, a little bit, obviously.
There's a certain amount of luck involved in just about everything.
but I do my research, I try to figure things out, and I will just work harder and make it work.
So when you hear all of these dire statistics, are you including the idiots?
But if you're including the idiots and being frightened of doing things because idiots are idiots, then you're letting your life be run by idiots.
That is a very bad idea.
Do not let your risk factors be distorted by fools.
It's like including in your risk of driving a car people who do street racing and play chicken.
Idiots.
Don't do it.
So that's number one.
Number two can be dealt with a lot faster.
Let's just talk about, say, the risk of marriage, right?
So again, you can get your risk factor of divorce down to 2% to 4% if you get an intelligent woman and you filter for values and virtues, as I've always talked about.
This 50% includes a bunch of idiots, and even the 50% is somewhat exaggerated because it includes people who are re-divorcing because they've been married three or four times.
Or more?
So, the single factor variable is one of the biggest mistakes in the world.
And I talked about this in a call-in show not too long ago, so I'll just touch on it briefly here.
So, if you say, well, I want to start my own business, but it's risky, it's like, okay, I accept that, so what can you do to minimize the risk?
Well, you know, 50% of all businesses fail in the first couple of years, so I've only got a 50% chance.
It's like, no!
Because that 50% includes idiots who don't plan, won't take advice, yell at their customers, don't take feedback from the marketplace, don't plan, don't have a cash flow, don't have a line of credit, don't have any business expertise, don't hire anything out, think they can do it all themselves.
It includes idiots!
So, what you want to do when you're assessing or evaluating risk is you want to compare apples to apples.
Okay, so if I start a business, right, I plan to do market research, to get a good line of credit, to establish a relationship with a bank or some other lending agency so I can cover the bumps and rolls because cash flow is king in business.
I'm going to hire...
Or get access to somebody who's an expert in the field.
So, what's the failure rate of people who do all of that?
Compare apples to apples.
What is the injury rate of people who belay and have expertise and work their way up in climbing?
What is their injury rate?
What is the risk of driving with people who've taken defensive driving courses, who are very alert, who have cars that have good safety features and who don't drink and who don't text?
What is the danger rate for that?
I mean, they do this with gun violence, right?
They throw in suicides to pump the numbers.
So, when it comes to marriage, you don't want to just look at contemporary risks and mix the idiots in.
But, also, here's another big factor.
You want to compare the risk of marriage not to some ideal platonic universe where there's no risk to marriage, which doesn't exist.
There's always a risk to marriage.
And the risk in marriage...
Does not go down when you're happy.
It's really, really important to understand.
The risk in marriage does not go down if you're super happy with each other.
Do you know why?
Because your partner can fucking die.
Your partner can die.
I love my wife.
I'm in an incredibly risky marriage.
Because if one of us gets hit by an asteroid, The other one is going to be miserable pretty much forever.
So, we don't have the risk of divorce, but we have the risk of loss.
You know, if you're in some, I don't know, hated marriage and your wife gets hit by an asteroid, you may not grieve overly much.
Okay, so you have less grieving.
But if you're in a very happy marriage, well...
Your wife can get sick, your wife can die, your husband can get sick and die.
Or, I don't know, early-onset dementia, that's not a lot of fun.
And then you've got 20 years of your partner progressively forgetting who you are, which is agony.
So, a happy marriage, okay, you don't, you have lowered your risk of divorce, you have increased your risk of loss.
That's the deal.
You don't start that business because you throw idiot numbers into the mix.
Okay, so you have minimized your risk of failing in business, but you have maximized your risk of regret.
Now, let's compare the risk of contemporary marriage to the risk of historical marriage.
What was the mortality rate for people in the past?
And we're talking childbirth or, you know, just industrial accidents, childbirth, disease, war, famine.
So, in the past, yes, you did not have no-fault divorce, family courts, and custody issues.
I get all of that.
But you had...
I don't know, the bubonic plague and smallpox and war and your woman dying because some kid had the umbilical cord around his neck when she was trying to give birth.
No anesthetic.
I was, from my mother's womb, untimely ripped, is the phrase, right?
From Macbeth.
So then what?
Well, then you are a man.
Let's say you have a bunch of kids.
And you're a man now.
Oh, oh dear.
Oh dear.
Oh dear.
My wife just died.
And I have four kids under the age of eight.
The kid's just been born.
Got no mother.
No breastfeeding.
No material comfort.
Oh, oh dear.
Maybe you really love your wife.
She just died.
And now you have to go and find some woman who's going to be willing to take on four kids and a baby.
Or what?
What's your alternative?
Someone's got to take care of those kids.
There's no day cares to speak of.
So, do you think that marriage was risk-free in the past, even if the risk of divorce was lower?
No!
The risks of marriage in the past were far higher because of the risk of danger, disease, death, famine, injury, and let's say that you're a woman.
And I had a friend once who wrote a whole musical about this, right?
So, you're a woman.
And your husband dies in some horrible industrial accident, which was not uncommon back in the day, or cuts himself on a scythe and gets an infection and dies, or gets drafted for war, or gets some disease.
You name it.
The risks were prodigious.
And then you've got no provider.
Oh, oh, oh dear.
Four kids under the age of eight and no provider.
So what do you do?
Well, maybe you've got to send them to the colonies to be raised by strangers and you've got to bid farewell to your babies because there's no real life insurance.
There's no welfare state.
You don't have the savings.
And your husband is dead.
Can you imagine?
I mean, you know, do the time machine thing, man.
Go back in time and complain about your circumstances to your ancestors.
That's a great way to put your troubles in perspective.
Go back in time and complain about your problems to your ancestors.
I could go back in time To my ancestor, the famous philosopher and best friend of John Locke, his name is William Molyneux, and I read his biography, I could go back in time to William Molyneux and say, hey man, I got deplatformed.
So what does that mean?
Um, I'm limited in my reach on social media.
What's social media?
Oh, it's a way of talking to the world for free.
What?
So you have the capacity to talk to the world for free for all time, and that's been limited, and it's cost you...
A lot of money.
Okay.
Sorry, I can't talk right now.
I'm being hunted by the king's soldiers who want to kill me.
No, but deplatforming, man.
So imagine going back in time to your ancestors who struggled with a perpetual cycle of dying.
Or you get one ear infection and you die.
There's no antibiotics, right?
So imagine you go back to your ancestors and you say, you know, if I'm an idiot and marry a woman I don't filter for virtues and values, she might divorce me.
And it's like, bro, I just buried my third wife because she died in childbirth.
You know, I got to tell you, I can't even make a violin small enough to play for you.
Well, I can't continue my family line because if I'm an idiot who marries an idiot, we might get divorced.
It's like, well, don't be an idiot.
Filter for virtues and values.
No, but she's pretty.
Oh, so...
All my sacrifices are sacrifices of all of your ancestors is in vain, because you can't stop thinking with your dick.
You can't stop getting dicknapped.
You can't stop.
You have no control over anything to do with the sin of lust.
And I say this with humility, certainly with no particularly great track record in the past, so I say this with humility.
It's like, oh, okay, so if you just want to have sex with a hot girl, You're complaining that you can't get married because you won't filter for virtues and values.
So I buried my third wife this weekend.
Rains of tears.
Children shipped all over Hell's Half Acre because I can't provide for them.
And you want to bang Victoria's Secret centerfold cutout chicks and you're afraid of getting divorced.
You've got to be kidding me.
I try to live a life that my ancestors would look at and say, it was worth it, man.
All these struggles.
My ancestor, William Molyneux, being hunted all over Ireland with John Locke because they'd criticized the king.
Would he look at me and say, okay, it was worth it, man.
It was worth it.
It was worth it.
That's a plus.
That's a good thing.
Because I handed the torch to this guy who's doing some real good in the world because of the technology that's available to him, right?
Would he consider it worth it to have suffered to give me life?
It's kind of an important question.
N'est-ce pas?
Would you not say?
Are you living a life?
That your ancestors, should they see it, right?
And this is a beautiful thing that happens in the Japanese culture, that your ancestors are watching you.
What is it, Weiwu?
It's a very funny account on Twitter.
Ancestor shame.
But it's important.
Are you living a life that your ancestors would say, you, the creation of you, was worth sacrificing for?
The existence of you, It was worth the eternal channels of shit that we had to wade through.
It was worth burying three wives.
And not to mention, people say, oh man, in the modern world, I might lose my kids.
It's like, you know, in the world prior, you lost half your kids almost guaranteed before the age of five because they got sick and died.
I might not see my kids.
Yeah, I get that.
and you wouldn't see half your kids in the past because they'd die.
So, start to get your risks in order.
Start to include the past and extract the idiots from the mix.
It's like saying, you know, a lot of food that's made in a household tastes bad, but it is in fact five-year-olds doing the infinity mix of everything in the cupboard. .
Yeah, that's going to taste pretty bad.
I did a mixed drink the other day, not alcoholic, just a mixed drink, and my daughter was like, that's foul.
And I'm like, no, no, no, it'll be tasty.
Come on.
Dr. Pepper, some iced tea.
Splash of orange.
And anyway, so she laughed at me.
I also squeezed in some lemon.
I took a sip and I'm like, wow!
I've actually managed to recreate how it tastes when a mouse dies in pee water three weeks ago.
That's quite impressive.
And she was right.
It tasted like serious ass.
So you can include that in how things taste?
No, I was an idiot.
I was just having fun.
Because most of the risks, it's important to understand, most of the risks that you hear in this world are propaganda.
If the powers that be want you to do something, they will minimize the risk.
Right?
If the powers that be don't want you to do something, i.e.
particularly if you're smart, Have children, get married, have kids, then they will throw in the idiots, throw in the repeat offenders, and scare you off with inflated risk.
I'll give you an example of the former.
So, if the powers that be want you to go to war, Then they will show endless movies of heroic guys who take out 50 enemies with super cool moves and barely get a scratch themselves.
In other words, they will incredibly inflate the odds of you succeeding against overwhelming odds.
That's programming.
They're programming you.
I'm going to be a hero on the battlefield.
And I'm going to take out all the bad guys and barely get a scratch myself and be a hero forever and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And that's how they teach you or train you or propagandize you to end up in a muddy feces and rat-filled ditch waiting for somebody 20 miles away to push a button and blow you into eternal nothingness.
That's how they do it.
On the other hand, if they don't want you starting a business, because that gets you out of their matrix in many ways, because being a wage slave is the best way to stay in the matrix, if they don't want you starting a business, then you'll hear all of these stories about how bad and tough and difficult and dangerous it is to start a business.
If they don't want you to get married and have kids.
Because then they don't have as much excuse for mass migration.
Well, they'll just tell you, oh, well, here's all these terrible stories.
Here's all these terrible stories.
That's how bad it is.
You're gonna die.
You're gonna get divorced.
You won't see your kids.
Half of four marriages end in divorce.
Here's some video games and porn for you.
There you go.
All set.
All set.
Nay whatties.
So most data that you get is propaganda.
And I just want to unpack that for you to make sure that you understand how you are being programmed.
And the purpose of bad data propaganda is to give you an excuse.
Say, oh, it's risky climbing a mountain.
So then you say, well, I'm not going to climb a mountain then because it's risky.
As opposed to...
Well, I suppose I'm going to climb a mountain, so I should evaluate how to minimize the risk.
See the difference?
Something's risky, and that's offering you an excuse, and they program you to refrain from or avoid behavior they don't want you to pursue.
They do that by giving you an excuse called data, right?
They give you an excuse called data.
And you fall for it.
And I get it.
I fell for it.
I say this with humility.
This is hard-won lessons.
A lot of businesses fail.
Okay.
What's the failure rate of businesses where people actually plan and get expertise and do the market research and get a good line of credit and all the other stuff, right?
Well, the failure rate of people who do the market research, produce good products, have expertise, access to lines of credit is very, very low.
How many of the, quote, businesses that fail are people who just start up some LLM? Or some corporation.
Do a little bit here and there.
Get distracted.
Get bored.
Let it lie fallow.
Don't do any work on it.
Don't let risk give you an excuse.
Right?
Oh, you know, some people, they get injured when they go scuba diving.
It's like, okay, but how many people who train, who get the expertise, who...
Don't rise faster than their bubbles, who always swim with a buddy, who, you know, don't do dangerous things, who don't cave dive without practice and cables.
How many of those people get injured?
Well, very few.
Very few.
you.
It's like mixing people who enjoy putting ketchup on themselves and jumping into shark infested waters with people at the beach.
Don't let data, which is almost always manipulative, I'm not going to be able to do this.
Do not let data programming give you excuses.
James says, it's like including in your evaluation of peaceful parenting people who do the gentle parenting manipulation stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes, indeed.
So, look at what you want to do in life and look at whether you've been scared off from doing it by manipulative data.
I mean, look, come on.
I mean, let's look at two sort of brief examples of how manipulative data is just lying to people, right?
COVID is deadly!
It's like, okay, are you including elderly people with a number of comorbidities?
Right?
COVID is deadly!
Are you including people who are obese or diabetic or have comorbidities even if they're not particularly old?
COVID is deadly!
Like, what about young people who exercise and are of a healthy weight?
Are you including the sick and half-dying in your evaluation of what is harming people?
Right?
I mean, in Canada, if I remember rightly, the average age of people who died of COVID was two years higher than the average age of death of people in the country as a whole.
Are you including in your evaluation of COVID dangers the fact that Hospitals were often financially incentivized for bad treatment protocols, in my humble opinion, or the death of people.
Are you including dying of COVID with dying with COVID? Everybody remembers.
Was it Cheryl Ackerson who pointed this out?
Everybody remembers that famous example of the guy who died in a motorcycle accident but happened to have had COVID a couple of weeks before and was counted as being killed by COVID. So, like, we all saw that data manipulation in real time.
The other, of course, is global warming, where you have these models that have never been accurate that are being used to steal trillions of dollars.
Tapping into the European and East Asian fear of the weather.
All agricultural societies are terrified of weather.
It's sort of primal.
It's baked into us.
It is part of our DNA to be terrified of the weather.
It is that fear of the weather that has us build irrigation systems in greenhouses and other kinds of things, right?
It's like that Alfred Hitchcock movie, The Birds.
Well, it generally plays pretty well in European countries because Europeans are terrified of birds.
Or there was a horror book, I think it was made into a movie, about rats.
So we're terrified of birds and rats because birds eat all our crops and seeds and rats poop in our grain and we die.
We're frightened of weather, birds, rats.
And now we're terrified of the unthinking, because the unthinking historically did not have much power, but now because the unthinking vote, we're terrified of the unthinking, and that translates into our fear of zombies.
Peace.
Thank you.
So, yeah, playing into people's fear of the weather and paying off money to control the weather, well, this is what...
Fools did in the past.
They paid off some witch doctor to do some weird dance to control the weather.
And now, bureaucrats who can't fix potholes are supposed to fix the weather in a hundred years because we pay them money to do strange rituals called adjusting made up from an asphalt spreadsheets of infinite money grabs.
Don't let Data that is manipulative give you the excuse of inaction or avoidance.
I mean, come on, you're only here because people ignored data in the past.
Can you imagine if people in the Middle Ages had been given the actual facts about the odds of how many children were going to die or whether their spouse was going to die or whether they were going to die themselves?
Would they have done it?
Would they have had kids?
Nope.
You're only here because people ignored risks.
How dare you expire your potential because you are frightened by made-up risks that are far less than your ancestors ever had to deal with.
All right, that's it for my speech.
Happy to have questions, comments, objections, arguments, whatever you like.
Borna, my friend.
You are on the air.
On the air.
Peter Gabriel style.
Hey, Stefan.
How's it going?
I'm a long-time listener.
Nice to meet you.
Yeah, back from early 2010s when you had another assistant.
Ah, yes.
Well, good for you.
That's back of the day, Mr. Mike.
Yes, what's on your mind, my friend?
Ah, so...
I caught your argument that, you know, how would our ancestors see it?
And I spent a significant time in Bosnia.
I am Croatian, and Bosnia is about half Muslim.
And so there is what I think is an interesting parallel between the Christian, or we could say more accurately, like legacy Christian society, Muslim society.
They tend to marry younger.
They tend to not go through the dating phase for so long.
I dated a Muslim woman, and when I didn't marry her after three years, she broke it off.
Three years?
Yeah.
How tall are you?
Six foot.
Right.
Good-looking?
Good-looking guy?
Keep your hair?
Yeah, you could say I kept all of my hair.
Yeah, so you're a tall guy, kept his hair, you're good-looking, because I'm trying to think of why a Muslim woman would put up with someone for three years without getting married, so there had to be a big pot of gold at the end of that rainbow.
Muslim woman from a madrasa, which is like a religious school.
And what are your religious beliefs?
I come from, I would say, a legacy Catholic background, but I was raised by my mostly atheist grandpa.
You must be fantastic in bed.
No, seriously, you must be able to do push-ups without using your hands.
I mean, you must be fantastic in bed.
There's some reason why.
She put up with no commitment for three years, despite being deeply religious herself.
I mean, her own background was a bit odd because, like, there is, like, a Muslim feminist strand.
And I know that to many people it sounds, like, weird.
But, like, basically from her viewpoint, Muslim men They are kind of a little bit crude, a little bit too direct, a little bit what in the West may be called toxic masculinity.
And I am a guy who is very much well-read.
I even read feminist literature.
I know all of the buzzwords and so on.
And so I can...
Let's just say my game is, like, better.
She said that I'm, like, the first, quote, normal guy she interacted with.
And, like, in general, she would give me the stories and her friends would tell me, like, how these guys, they tried to, like, seduce these women.
And I would say it's, like, very much undeveloped.
But I think...
Well, hang on.
So what was her appeal for you for three years?
I mean, she would say that I am intelligent.
No, no, no, no.
Sorry.
What was drawing you to her if your beliefs were so different?
I mean, different.
Like, I tend to score extremely high on open-mindedness.
So when I saw acute...
Muslim girl, I was just like, why not?
No, no, hang on.
You score high on open-mindedness.
Okay, that's fine.
But then, do Muslims as a whole score high on open-mindedness?
No, they don't.
Okay, so if it's a value for you, why would you date the opposite?
Okay, come on, let's just be honest.
How pretty was she?
How good was her figure?
Let's just be honest here.
Pretty.
Pretty and small of stature.
So that's what drew you to there.
Pretty interesting, different, and also she was a virgin.
So it's something which I value.
So why did you do her so dirty then?
Yeah, that's the reason why I wanted to talk.
It actually wasn't because of the statistics.
Yes, I am aware of them, but the system here is not as gynocentric.
You even have female celebrities who you would expect have social sway.
They lose the custody to men here.
It's not because of that.
I wanted to kind of portray a picture like how within the Muslim community, men tend to commit more.
They tend to commit earlier because I think the value system is...
All right, hang on, hang on, hang on.
Okay.
What was my question?
Why did I do her dirty?
Right.
I don't know what you're talking about, but you're not answering my question.
That's fine.
If you don't want to answer my question, that's fine, but just don't take me on this weird journey through the language land.
Indecisiveness, lack of really being aware of how time goes on.
There is this feeling, you know, like you are immortal, like you are going to be forever young, live forever, lack of maturity, I would say.
But also there were some issues within the relationship which I was hoping would get resolved with time.
Okay, so let me ask you this.
How long into your three-year relationship did she say, I need a commitment?
About like, about a bit after a year, she was like giving us signals, like very low-key signals she wants to get married.
Okay.
So you were aware, and of course you would have studied the...
Islamic faith and the beliefs of her community and so on.
Now, did she want you to convert to get married?
At the very beginning, she was teasing me a little bit, like, why am I going for a Muslim?
Would I be willing to convert?
And I said, well, yeah, if you can convince me, why not?
Discussions about the spiritual element, but I guess these discussions were moving more into a skeptic realm.
And I actually strategically withdrew my wise guy and skeptic...
I mean, I am well versed in the...
Internet atheist arguments, like I can put up a good debate with religious folks.
But I saw that I'm kind of undermining her religiosity, and I didn't like that, because one of her appealing attributes was that she was not just like a woman from my community, which are extremely secularized.
So I kind of backed off, and she backed off with the conversion stuff.
And how long ago was this relationship?
2022. Around the time the Ukraine war started, we broke off.
And what was the end story?
The end story?
Well, there were elections in Bosnia.
Her family comes from Muslim nobility, like people who ran Bosnia for the Ottoman overlords.
And so they are a very long and storied line.
Her father was a veteran in the Balkan Wars.
He died when she was a toddler.
And so her family is like 100% in the, let's call it the Muslim supremacist class.
Yeah, they're locked in, as my daughter would say.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, and so basically her party lost.
A big reason for that is, okay, I'm just going to skip the politics.
When the elections happened, she was really angry.
And she gave a very, very long rant about it.
And when I wanted to speak my piece, which is like, I basically just wanted to say that centralizing the country, which would go towards the consolidation of power of the Muslim man.
Majority is like a maximalist goal.
That sentence was literally all that I wanted to say.
She stopped me.
She kind of figured where I was going.
She stopped me and said, no, I cannot handle this.
Let's change the subject.
And I was like, hey, please.
I was...
I've been listening to you for almost an hour.
Can I just say my piece and then we can, I don't know, do something else?
And she was like, no, no, no.
And this was a telephone conversation.
She said, listen, I'm gonna leave the phone on the table and I'm going to go into the next room where wait for five minutes.
And then after you are done, I'll come back and then we can do that.
That's something else.
And I was like, hello?
Are you there?
Hello?
And she was already in the next room.
I put the phone down and I basically wrote what I wanted to say.
And when she got the message, she was livid.
And basically broke it off.
Now, she did plan on traveling to another country that was planned as her first time to travel alone.
And so she did call me a couple of weeks later asking me to travel with her.
I understood that as her wanting to get back, but I didn't agree to go with her.
Okay, and how old were you both when you broke up?
I was like 31, and she was, I think, like 27, 28. Okay.
So, what is the question that you have?
I mean, obviously, some thoughts and comments, but what is the most important question that you have for me?
I certainly appreciate the story and all of that, but how can I help you today?
Okay.
Well, I was kind of inspired to add a bit of comparison with the situation in Bosnia.
I don't believe that the entirety of the reason why men are kind of indecisive is just due to data.
My question would be, how do we find if we are not raised with these...
In the Muslim community, I see a lot more risk tolerance.
I see less...
In my community, which is very much westernized, we tend to be aspirational.
We tend to dream big.
We tend to never be content with what we have.
What would be your guidance?
Because I believe that me and you, we come from a more secular philosophical background, but I greatly admire you because you are somebody who gets stuff done.
What would be your words of wisdom to somebody who doesn't have that drive and that belief to just pull the trigger on many things?
Okay.
So, you're from Eastern Europe.
How blunt do you want me to be?
I mean, as blunt as you do not leave some nuance out.
Okay.
All right.
So, you would be in the idiot category.
Thank you.
No, no, you would.
I mean, I'm not saying you're an idiot as a whole, but when it comes to dating, you say, oh, Steph, I admire and respect you so much.
That's not true at all, because you did the exact opposite of everything I would ever recommend.
And since you've been listening to me for 15 years, you damn well know better.
You did the exact opposite of everything that I would recommend or would be philosophically consistent, right?
And then you come to me and say, Steph, what's your advice?
So, I mean, we could list it off if you want.
I'm sure you're fairly aware of it, right?
So, I say values compatibility.
She's a fundamentalist Muslim, and you are an atheist skeptic.
I say don't waste women's fertility years.
You do that anyway.
I say make sure that you are going to marry into a family that mirrors your values.
You don't do that anyway.
I say, listen, you've got to have values compatibility because how are you going to raise kids?
If you're an atheist and she's a fundamentalist Muslim, how are you going to raise your kids?
I need to say that she is not a fundamentalist.
She is like one of those modern...
Okay, but relative to, say, the Christianity that I grew up with, she would be a fundamentalist.
I wouldn't actually say that.
Even her family, they drink alcohol despite...
I would say that they are much more nationalistic and, like, just, like, stubborn pride than, like, consistently applied Islam.
Okay, but they would, of course, worship the Prophet as the most perfect person, right?
At least materially.
She basically, like, I... I basically never saw her even do those five daily prayers.
Like, she said that she actually changed her behavior so that I don't get, like, weirded out.
Right, which is perfectly compatible in the Islamic faith, right?
To alter your behaviors to make Islam more acceptable is...
I actually know.
No, no, I know about Takia, and I would tease her about Takia all of the time, but like, no, no, she's even a little bit on the spectrum.
So, no, like, she can't lie.
What do you mean?
She's autistic or asbestos?
What do you mean?
Yeah, yeah, she's on the spectrum.
Sorry, how do you know?
Because this stuff gets tossed around all the time.
How do you know she's on the spectrum?
No, no, no.
She is diagnosed.
As what?
As someone on the Asperger's.
Okay.
So, are you anywhere on the spectrum?
No, no.
I literally sleep and I can hear my neighbors...
Okay, I don't need all the reasons why you're not on the spectrum.
Okay, so she was Muslim, and you're atheist, and she's Asperger's, and you're not.
I'm not an atheist.
I am, like, one of those people who, like, believes in something, but is irreligious.
Okay, so agnostic or...
Deist, something like that, right?
Yeah, like deist, yeah.
Okay.
So, you're neurotypical, she's neurodivergent, you're deist, and she is Muslim, and you thought that this was somehow compatible with what I would recommend.
And listen, I'm not trying to say like I'm some sort of, like, you've got to do everything I say, but it's a little confusing to me.
How those would be considered compatible values?
I mean, in Bosnia and Albania and so on, we tend to mix between confessions and faiths all the time, so it's not seen as that important in all sides.
I'm not Bosnia and Herkes, right?
I'm a philosopher.
Right?
So saying, you know, well, you need to be rational.
You say, well, in my culture, people aren't that rational.
It's like, but that's not my point, right?
My point is that you should be rational.
And you're saying, well, but there are a bunch of people here who are hypocritical and inconsistent.
It's like, okay, that doesn't affect my argument.
You should be scientific.
You know, there's a lot of people in my community who believe in astrology.
It's like, what's that got to do with what I'm talking about?
Yeah.
I mean, we agreed that our kids would have...
We literally did the work of finding names which are acceptable in both the Muslim and the Christian traditions.
We also decided that neither side is going to push our religious identity onto the kids.
We are going to present them with all of the materials they want, and they can make the decision for themselves.
And did her parents and extended family agree with that approach?
Well, that's perfect, because her dad died in the war.
Sorry, it's perfect that they died?
No, I want to say it is perfect that she either...
Doesn't have family involved, or she hates them.
So, yeah.
Oh, she hates her family?
More or less, yeah.
Okay.
And did you guys have a sex life?
Yeah.
Okay, so you took her virginity and then didn't marry her?
Yeah.
How do you feel about that?
I mean, it's not ideal.
That's a judgment.
How do you feel about that?
How I feel about it.
I mean, neither here nor there, to be honest.
you Thank you.
Okay, so you're indifferent to the fact that you took her greatest prize in value and tossed her back onto the marketplace.
I mean, I didn't initiate everything.
At the first time that we had sex, basically she initiated.
Right, but she's on the spectrum.
I mean, I didn't know that at the time.
Yeah.
Thank you.
But it's not like she is this functional.
She has a great career.
Hey, you brought up on the spectrum.
You brought that up as a relevant factor, right?
So then you can't say it doesn't matter.
Right?
Okay, so at the end of things, she put down the phone and said, you talk.
I'm not going to listen.
I'll come back in five minutes.
And so she was unwilling to listen or negotiate regarding your perspectives or beliefs, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
So that means that she does not have a commitment to negotiation.
I would say...
No, no.
Don't try to argue this one with me.
Like, I beg you.
Please.
It's just a waste of everyone's time.
Right?
If she's not debating with you or arguing with you or at least having a negotiation with you three years into the relationship, by definition, she has no commitment to that.
Right?
I mean, if you cheated, then clearly you didn't have a commitment to fidelity.
So, if she is saying, I'm not talking about this with you, you can talk to the phone, I'll come back and pretend you didn't say anything.
Then she has no commitment to negotiation or debate in the relationship.
Yeah, that's true.
Okay, so do I ever recommend that you date people who won't negotiate with you or don't have a commitment to negotiating with you?
I don't think that you do.
I would like to add a bit of nuance that...
At the beginning, when it was all rosy and peachy, she would compromise a lot, but as things were not going as she wanted, she would basically stonewall various things.
Okay, so when in the relationship did you find out that she was not committed to negotiation?
I would say there was a decisive moment.
No, no, when did you first, again, not the decisive, when did you first realize that she did not have a commitment?
Because a commitment to negotiation is pretty simple, right?
So if she's not negotiating with you, if she gaslights, stonewalls, avoids, minimizes, bullies, escalates, like whatever, right?
And then you say to her, no, no, hang on, we're supposed to negotiate.
She's like, oh, yeah, I'm so sorry, you're right.
That's a commitment to negotiation, right?
So, when did you first realize that you could not hold her to the requirement of negotiation?
I know the exact moment.
So, I was sunbathing, and she knows the time when I do that.
It was summer, and, like, and so...
She comes to talk a very, like, difficult topic.
Okay, when in the relationship was this?
I need to put this in context.
Maybe, like, a year and a half to maybe, like, closer to two years.
Oh, so for almost two years, she was perfectly committed to negotiation, and then she flipped.
Like, she would push these, like, difficult, like, historical...
Topics?
Like, you know, the meme about...
Okay, bro, bro, I love you to death.
You've got to answer some questions.
My God!
This is all just filibustering nonsense.
Are you telling me and telling the audience with a straight face that this Muslim girl who's got Asperger's was perfectly committed to negotiation and reason for the first 18 to 24 months of your relationship and then she flipped.
I wouldn't say it was, like, 180, but there was a precedent, and, like, after she got away with that bad behavior that one time, it kind of became...
I'm going to ask again, because I need to rein you back, because we're not...
This is why you ended up with a woman you can't negotiate with, because you don't answer questions.
You don't have a conversation.
You have monologues.
This is why you end up with a woman you can't negotiate with, because you don't negotiate.
I'm trying to get some facts.
You know, honestly, brother, it's pretty rude to not answer someone's questions.
If you want to have a conversation, my question is, you said for 18 to 24 months, she negotiated, or negotiation was a value that she conformed to.
So anytime she didn't negotiate, you would say, oh, no, no, we're supposed to negotiate.
You're like, oh, you're right.
I'm so sorry.
That's right.
Like, I can't even get you to answer questions and you're telling me you were great at negotiating with the Muslim woman?
So are you saying to me that for 18 to 24 months, she was great at negotiating or held that as a value that she could be drawn back to, and then it changed?
Yes, as much as that sounds odd, because you are a masterful person to steer a conversation and frame it a certain way, as much as that...
No, that's insulting.
That's insulting.
I'm not...
Listen, you made the claim.
If I repeat the claim back to you, I'm not framing or manipulating.
If I say I have a graduate degree in XYZ... And you've never heard of that, and then you say, oh, wait, you have a graduate degree in XYZ, and then I start filibustering, and then I complain that you're framing and manipulating the conversation.
That's bullshit.
You made a claim, I'm repeating the claim back to you to make sure that I fully understand it, and then you accuse me of framing and being manipulative?
You made the claim.
I didn't make the claim for you.
I am going to go a step further.
You strongman me.
And then you say, I... Brother, I ask you this to confirm, is this how you want me to understand it?
And I make a step further to clarify, and then you accuse me of filibustering.
I love you, Stefan, but that is a bit unfair.
Okay, so I asked you how long you were able to negotiate with her.
And then you said, well, I remember, hang on, you said, I remember when it stopped.
I remember the moment that it stopped.
And then you started telling me a story.
And I said, well, I need to know when in the relationship this was.
And you said, 18 months, probably closer to two years.
Do you remember all of that?
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
So when I ask you, when did you first realize she was not committed to negotiation?
And you say, 18 to 24 months.
Then the clear implication of that, which I just wanted to confirm.
To make sure we're on the same page, right?
Because I'm asking you for the first indication she was not committed to negotiation.
You say 24 months.
You said basically closer to two years, right?
So if you're in a relationship with a woman for two years and only at the two-year mark do you notice that she is no longer committed to negotiation, I just want it to be clear because I asked for the first instance of non-negotiation.
And you said two years.
So then I wanted to be clear and say, okay, just so...
Because I didn't want to waste time if we talk for 20 minutes about what happened at two years, right?
And then it turns out that there was other stuff at six months or one year, then we've wasted time.
Like I have to run a show that is efficient for people as a whole, right?
So I just wanted to be clear.
I'm asking for the first instance of when she didn't negotiate and you say it's two years and I say, okay, so she was...
You know, really well committed or perfectly committed to negotiation, which doesn't mean she always negotiates, but it means you can catch her on it, right?
And she'll conform to that.
We all don't negotiate at times, and we have to be reminded.
That's fine.
So I just wanted to be clear that for the first two years, she was committed to negotiation, and she did negotiate.
And then the only time that she stopped negotiating was at two years, because I'd asked for the first instance.
So I'm just confirming that this is, in fact, the first instance.
That's not manipulative, is it?
Is that strawmanning you?
Maybe we got a bit on the wrong foot.
Yes, yes, that is correct.
So what do you mean?
Are you withdrawing your accusation that I was being strawmanning you and manipulative?
Maybe I misunderstood it.
Maybe I got a wrong impression.
Don't gaslight me, bro.
You made an accusation.
I believed that you were strawmanning me, but what you are saying now sounds much more in line.
Okay, so were you wrong in accusing me publicly of strawmanning you?
I guess I was.
At this particular moment, it appears that I was.
Okay, so what do you owe me?
I apologize, Stefan, for words which may be considered rude or accusative.
Sorry, maybe?
Manipulative and strawmanning?
You don't think that's just a subjective thing?
Some people might think of that as a really great and positive thing?
I mean, you did say that I am Philip Bustering, which I am certain I wasn't.
Oh, we can renegotiate that if you want.
Filibustering is when I ask for a question and you take me on a journey without addressing the question.
I mean, not to get into etymology, but filibustering is literally not allowing the other side to speak.
Well, that's in a legal sense, right?
That's if somebody's in Parliament.
But we're not in Parliament.
So filibustering just generally means, like, you know, when a politician is asked a particular question and they just go off on some story time without answering the question, that's generally...
Filibustering has a technical term in that you are holding on to your position to speak in the House of Commons or Congress or something like that, and then people cannot interrupt you.
But we're not in that situation, so clearly I'm not saying...
That you're not allowing me to speak because otherwise they wouldn't be able to say that you were filibustering.
So by definition, I'm not saying that we're in a situation where you're not allowing me to speak.
Indeed.
Okay, so let's get back to the two-year thing.
So I'm going to accept, if this is the case, that she was great at negotiating for the first two years and then what was it that happened at the two-year mark?
Okay, so now I can give maybe a little bit of a story kind of answer, right?
So, before that moment, when we would have a disagreement, and of course we would have some nasty arguments or quote fights, like verbal arguments, but...
Every time we would make up, and I don't mean just like hugs and kisses, we would come back to the topic and resolve it.
And in general, these topics would go in my favor.
And I'm so sorry to interrupt, but when was it in the relationship that you began to have these fights?
I mean, from the get-go, we had some disagreements.
Like, some disagreements were just, like, dumb, like, etymological ones.
No, no, fights.
Fights.
I'm not asking you about disagreements.
Fights.
You said fights.
So I don't know why you're redefining it to disagreements.
That doesn't help the conversation.
When in the relationship did you start having these fights?
You said the word fights.
Well...
That's why I try to name it in arguments, like argumentative fights.
But I guess after a couple of months, we would have disagreements.
But many of these were really spurty.
I don't know how to translate it from my language to English.
Hang on.
We're talking disagreements and fights.
You said that they would escalate.
It's hard to get you to answer questions, I'm telling you.
I'm asking about when, and I know why you don't want to answer this question, but I'm asking you when in the relationship you started to have fights.
I mean, disagreements are fine, right?
Disagreements are, you know, my wife and I are like, hey, do you want to watch a movie tonight?
Why do I want to watch this?
No, I don't really want to watch that.
And, you know, technically we're disagreeing on what movie to watch.
It's not a fight, right?
Okay, so I would say disagreements which escalate to become a bit emotionally uncomfortable, like a bit confrontational, you know?
Like name code?
Yeah, after about a month.
Okay.
So, when you say uncomfortable, was there name-calling involved?
No, no.
That's one of her, like, best traits.
She would never do personal attacks.
Never.
Okay, so what would be, hang on, would she raise her voice?
How would it become more than a disagreement?
Can I take a moment to figure out what to answer?
Yeah, of course.
No, no problem with that.
I appreciate the thoughtfulness.
So I could hear a bit of trying to spin it to be guilty.
That is one aspect.
And another is she would just be like, no, no, that's wrong, that's wrong.
I am right.
And then just like...
Insist on a weird...
I'm sorry, something's happened to your audio.
The audio quality has just dropped.
If you could return back to where you were doing before, that would be...
That's better, yes, thanks.
Is it now better?
Yeah, it's better, thank you.
Okay, so she would sometimes get a bit heated, like raise her voice, and sometimes she would be using a bit of guilt.
But that would not be the dominant element.
It would be more just like raising voice.
And guilt, how would she do that?
It would be like, no, no, no, it is clear this.
Sorry, you're going to need to stick close to the mic or something like that because your audio keeps cutting out in terms of quality.
Sorry, you were saying how did she use guilt?
Yeah, she would change the tonality of her voice, but I don't think it would be intentional or manipulative.
And I believe, if I can say so myself, that I am savvy in figuring that out.
She would be like, you don't value my point of view or something.
And I would be like, no, you said this, but sadly it is factually incorrect or something.
Okay, and then when you said something is factually incorrect, assuming that you could prove it to her, what would she do then?
Like, I... For example, we had a big argument about race and IQ, and I have sent your videos and videos of Jared Taylor, and she literally did her homework for like a month and basically came back with, you are correct.
And what we are taught is just like wrong.
Okay.
All right.
So then what happened at the two-year mark?
Appreciate that.
Thank you for the clarification.
Okay.
So at the two-year mark, the topic was again like political or historical, like war, like Balkan war.
And she came to me while I was having my peace time and started this discussion.
And this works me up.
And I remember I was extremely careful to watch my tone.
And I did not raise my tone for, like, a moment.
First time, we couldn't reach an agreement, and she basically, like, went off to do something else.
Two days later, same thing happens around the same time.
Again, I really watched not to raise my voice.
Third time, again, the identical topic.
She again comes with the same, like, argument.
And this time, it lasted for like an hour and a half or two hours.
And I realized, like, what you are doing is stone falling.
Like, you are literally not acknowledging any of my arguments.
And then she was raising her voice, no, how dare you accuse me?
And then I just, like, all of the patience which I had, it disappeared, and I got...
So I woke up, I started to yell, and that was like a precedent.
So what do you mean?
After that argument, we had more unproductive arguments.
Before that, I insisted that every argument we had was productive.
Every time, we basically reached a mutually satisfactory conclusion.
This time, it set off a chain where we have some disagreement or even like what I could describe a fight, but it never gets really resolved.
It's like giving up.
Like, yeah, things are fucked.
Who cares?
Leave it be.
And this was mostly about politics, is that right?
Quite a bit, actually.
Quite a bit.
Okay.
So she's tribal when it comes to politics, right?
Very tribal.
Very tribal.
Okay.
So do you think that as a philosopher that I would recommend dating collectivists who are tribal?
I mean, I'm also a tribal collectivist.
I have to be honest.
Ah, okay.
All right.
So you don't agree with me with that kind of stuff?
It's fine.
I just want to be clear.
I would say that I am very, very tribal.
And it is visceral.
If I watch a sports, like a fight between two...
Two people or two teams in sports.
I literally don't care about a game if there is not a person of my blood there playing.
I would love to say that I am enlightened and I look for individual value and the content of character, but honestly...
I am just like, on that level, maybe you could call it irrational.
Maybe it is just evolution, but like, you know.
No, I understand where you're coming from.
So was your girlfriend, was she your blood?
I mean, was she if you're tribal?
Here we believe that these are basically like we are one people of different faiths.
Different political identities, but like one blood.
Ah, okay.
Got it.
So she was your people, so to speak, right?
Yeah, in a way.
Like, Muslims in Bosnia and Albania, they will do the Haram thing and, like, date other whites and others, like, Slavs and Albanians, but not date, like, black Muslims and so on.
Okay, got it, got it.
So there's this sort of bloodline and the people and so on, right?
Yeah, it is haram in their religion, but they don't care.
Okay, got it, got it.
All right.
Okay, so again, I mean, I appreciate the information.
I'm sorry that the relationship didn't work out.
Is there anything in particular that I can help you with in this conversation as a whole?
Yeah, I think there is a parallel, like, I have a tooth issue, and this is something which I remember you talking about.
I have an issue with a tooth.
A tooth, okay, got it.
Yeah, and I believe that I just lack, like, I gathered my courage to pull the tooth out, and like… Oh, this is an analogy, the woman is like a tooth?
No, no, it is literally like I have some health problems and I'm like lacking decisiveness to get it done with.
Okay, so sorry, the relationship stuff is done.
We're talking about your tooth.
Yeah, like...
Okay, I just wanted to understand that the switch was a bit abrupt for me, but I think I'm with you there.
Okay, go ahead.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
Like, I've got...
Chronic health issues and some of them stem from me not taking action when it is early enough.
So you got a tip thing?
Is there anything else?
yes a bunch of it like yeah like I've got a nagging injury Which, like, I need to get dealt with.
And I am consistently not taking action to solve this.
Yeah.
Like, I have gathered my courage to go to a dentist and get the tooth pulled out, but the dentist delayed the procedure.
And then I am like...
Is procrastinating going to deal with it?
Okay.
Got it.
I see the parallels with my procrastination to commit in a relationship.
No, no.
Well, let me ask you this.
If you're very much into your people, and I'm going to take that fully at face values, no criticism here for me about that, right?
But if you're very much into your people, Then why don't you have children?
Shouldn't you want to make more of your people?
Yeah.
Sorry, you're in your mid-30s now, is that right?
Yes.
33, 34?
Yeah.
Okay.
So, I don't have children because I procrastinated with...
With each good opportunity, not appreciating it at the time.
At all of these points, I would be like, let's just wait and see what happens.
Okay, and why do you think that you procrastinate this much?
Because throughout my life, I... In general, I would get away with it.
That doesn't answer anything.
Hang on.
If I say, why do you steal?
I'll say, well, because I think I can get away with it.
But that doesn't answer why you're stealing.
Why do you want to steal in the first place?
I mean, stealing is an action.
I'm basically inaction.
My problem is inaction.
Okay, that's not an important distinction.
Right.
And why do you think that you procrastinate?
I mean, bad habits, like bad habits, lack of role models.
Okay, you've listened to me for 15 years, and I've talked a lot about procrastination over the years, right?
I think I actually skipped those parts.
You thought you'd do them later?
Yes, yes, yes.
Okay, so you're avoiding.
I know all of this is funny.
Yeah, you're avoiding.
I know that people are laughing at this, but it's just what it is.
Okay, so what is the issue if you didn't procrastinate?
In other words, let's say that you got married and started a family and so on.
You stopped putting that off, right?
You filtered based on values and virtues.
And, you know, if you marry the right woman, then she's going to help you with your bad habits, right?
So she'll help you with your procrastination and so on.
So what happens in your life if you get married and have kids?
What is the negative?
If I get married and I have...
I am trying to see if I understood your question correctly.
So if I get married and I am still...
Dealing with procrastination, right?
No, if you overcome your procrastination to the point where you get married, right?
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Then what is the negative in that?
What do you lose out on?
What is the negative if you...
I don't believe there is a negative.
I don't believe there is.
Like, procrastination should be lost.
Well, but there must be some...
Like, you must gain a benefit from procrastination.
Otherwise, you wouldn't do it, right?
And so if you stop procrastinating, you will lose that benefit, which is a negative for you.
Hmm.
I mean, I guess it's about like willpower and anxiety control and things like that.
Thank you.
Sorry, do you think that that explains anything to me?
I am not sure.
I'm not sure it explains anything to you.
I mean, just throwing a bunch of negative words and thinking you've explained something, right?
Like, my typical mode of operation is that, like, I wait until the last second, and then, like, I am overwhelmed by stress, and then I am, like, forced to do it.
And if you said you had bad role models, were your parents that way, too?
My parents are not all that involved, but my mother, yeah.
She has broken windows in the house and so on, like curtains.
Stuff is broken and she just does not fix it.
She just lets it be.
Oftentimes, yeah, everybody behaves as if that is normal.
Okay, so what is your relationship to discipline?
Not very.
I would basically be left to my own devices.
Okay, so do you have an emotional response to discipline?
Do you mean to discipline as a...
Concept or like to corporal punishment?
No, I'm sorry.
So self-discipline.
Right?
So procrastination manifests in a lack of self-discipline.
Right?
So I assume that means you have a negative relationship to self-discipline.
Like you must have something self-discipline is bad in some way, right?
I would describe it like this.
Whenever I had a mentor or somebody else, like an older brother figure, I would always be an overachiever.
But if you give me homework, like something that I need to do on my own, I tend to barely do it.
Okay, so what is your relationship to that?
Because the most common, and I'm not saying this is yours, but the most common response to self-discipline Do I resent myself?
No.
Do you resent self-discipline?
If someone says, look, just get up and go and pick up the phone and call the dentist and get this sorted out.
If you were to say that to yourself, what would your emotional response be to giving yourself an order like that?
I tend to give it.
And then I just like...
Or maybe that's not true.
I can't always use like future timing.
Like I'm gonna do it.
I should do it.
No, no.
If you give yourself an order, get off the couch and deal with this tooth.
If you give yourself an order like that, hang on.
What is your emotional response to giving yourself an order?
That's that.
Let's do it.
Sorry, it's what?
I guess maybe acquiescence is the answer.
Well, then you would do it, right?
If you just order yourself to deal with your tooth, which I assume has been going on for months or years, if you just give yourself an order and you obey that order, then why wouldn't you do it?
There has to be some emotional resistance, otherwise you would have done it months ago or years ago.
I mean...
I have watched content about what happens to your jaw if you remove your teeth.
No, I'm not asking for the technical shit about your teeth.
What is your emotional response to making yourself do something and giving yourself an order?
It's like...
Whatever, let's just do it.
I'm not very happy about it.
Okay, so then why don't you give yourself orders?
And just say, you have to do it.
I have called the dentist.
I went there, but it got delayed.
And then I need to reschedule it.
But now I have lost the willpower.
Bro, bro, bro.
You don't even have the self-discipline to answer questions.
No, you cannot have a relationship with people until you learn to answer questions.
I'm trying to find something out so I can help you.
You won't answer my question.
I've asked at least six or seven times now.
What is your emotional response to self-discipline, to making yourself or giving yourself orders?
Maybe it is resentful.
No, no, not maybe.
Can you give me other options?
I am trying.
See, this is an example.
I'm trying to give you some discipline here.
I'm saying, bro, answer the question.
If you want to have a conversation with me and you're asking for my help, you have to answer the question, right?
Like, if you go to the doctor and you say, I feel sick, I feel unwell, I feel unhealthy.
And the doctor says, okay, where does it hurt?
And you won't answer the question.
Can the doctor help you?
Probably not.
Well, he can't.
And if the doctor says, okay, if I move your elbow, does it hurt?
And you say, well, you know, I remember bumping my elbow when I was a kid, but that was a long time ago, and I dated this Muslim girl.
She also had two elbows, actually, if I remember rightly.
And it's just like...
Like, you understand?
This is what I mean.
Like, you don't even have to discipline.
And I say this with sympathy.
I'm not, like, mad.
I'm just, you don't have to discipline.
You just answer a question.
So, when I'm trying, okay, let me ask you this.
I'm ordering you to answer the question if you want to continue the conversation.
That's an order.
It means the price of continuing the conversation and getting my free help, the price of it is to answer the fucking questions I ask.
Now, If I say to you, if I am saying to you, answer my questions.
Don't filibuster.
Don't take me on ramble story.
Don't tell me about what happens to your jaw if blah, blah, blah, right?
Just answer the question.
Now, when I tell you to just answer my questions, how do you feel?
Happy, actually.
I think it is resentment.
Happy and you think it's resentment?
What the hell does that mean?
Don't I say emotions?
I feel happy and resentment.
I have again like I would be like giving you a story so I don't know if you Okay, so, no, just tell me, help me understand.
So, if you feel happy just answering a question, then you would answer a question.
Because we all want to be happy, right?
So if you tell me, if I'm ordering you to answer my questions and you say I feel happy to answer your questions, then our preceding hour makes no sense, right?
Now, if you say to me, if I order you to answer my questions, what is your emotional response to being ordered?
It is actually freeing.
Okay, so you mentioned the word resentment, which I just want to make sure I understand what you mean by that.
Where's that coming from?
I think it is resentment.
I actually do a lot better with just having an authoritarian, authoritative figure than having a lot of room to navigate myself.
Okay, so tell me about the resentment.
I guess when I am left to my own devices and nobody is dependent on me, I need to add that because I tend to be more serious then.
When it is just me managing myself, I tend to be very self-indulgent and I guess I resent having to do something which I don't particularly feel like.
This is the best that I can explain.
Okay, so when I'm in the moment, what do you feel when I'm ordering you to answer my questions?
What do you feel?
I feel okay about it because being given an order is actually removing much of my own responsibility.
Okay, so just give yourself orders then.
Then you overcome resentment.
Just give yourself orders.
If giving orders gets you compliant, then just give yourself orders.
No excuses.
Get off the couch, call the dentist, reschedule the surgery.
Just give yourself orders.
What's wrong with that?
Like, what's the problem with just giving yourself orders?
I'm not saying there isn't one.
I'm just curious, why wouldn't you just do that then?
Analysis paralysis?
Well, that's just a rhyming phrase.
You say you respond to just being given orders, so just give yourself orders.
I guess I lack willpower to do that consistently.
Do what?
Like give myself orders.
I'm not sure what you mean by lack willpower.
You respond to being given orders, so just give yourself orders.
I mean, that would be the goal.
I'm not sure how to apply this.
So you know exactly how to apply this.
You just give yourself an order, right?
So when it comes to you've got these nagging health issues which need to be taken care of, so you just order yourself to do it.
You just say, okay.
You make a list in the morning, right?
You make a list in the morning.
Okay, here are the four health issues I need to deal with.
I'm going to make all these phone calls today and set up appointments.
Just give yourself orders, right?
Yeah.
I mean, you pay your taxes every year and that's, you know, a difficult process of going through all the paperwork and the calculations and stuff like that, right?
You make yourself do it.
That is a Western thing.
Here in Europe, the employer does the taxes.
Okay.
I'm sure that there are some things you do that you don't particularly like to do.
Okay, so you just give yourself orders and you say, this is what I have to do.
So what are the emotions that come up?
If you were to say to yourself, here's the list, I have to do all of this today.
Like, no excuses.
What are the emotions that come up?
I guess fear and hesitation.
Okay, so what's the fear?
Hesitation, not really an emotion.
What's the fear?
Fear of what?
The fear of consequences.
Okay.
I mean, every fear is a fear of consequences by definition.
If there were no consequences, there wouldn't be any fear.
Okay, so fear of what?
I might have like a PTSD from like medical malpractice from like 10 years ago.
I basically went to a hospital healthier than I came out.
Yeah, sadly, that's not too uncommon.
No, sadly, that's not uncommon, but that's not the same with regards to your dentistry or whatever physiotherapist you might need for your physical injuries or issues, right?
Yeah, I'm basically extremely hesitant and maybe even cowardly when it comes to taking care of this, like going to a doctor and so on.
Right, okay, so something has got you stuck in kind of...
Eternal 13-year-old.
Because the reason why you get this shit dealt with is because you don't want to be unattractive to women.
Right?
Because if you are in the dating market and, you know, now you're in your mid-30s, so you're running out of time.
This is why I'm spending time on this, right?
Because you're obviously a very smart guy, philosophical, a lot of great attributes, so...
You're running out of runway.
I am.
Right?
So the reason why you get this dealt with is so you can be attractive to women on two levels.
Number one, if you're physically healthy, you're more attractive to women.
And number two, if you're a waste of time procrastinator, how attractive is that to women?
Not very, especially to women who are highly educated and professional.
Yeah, highly educated, motivated.
How much fun is it to have kids with a guy who procrastinates all the time?
Yeah, women don't like to see a guy.
They hate it.
Why do women hate it?
Why do women hate a procrastinator?
Probably evolved like they're like action guys.
Okay, but what practical things happen to a woman who marries a procrastinator?
I mean, guys who take action, they bring home the bacon.
Well, even if you have money, I'll tell you what happens to women who marry a procrastinator, and the women will chant me out on this, and if I'm incorrect, they'll tell me, but I know I'm not.
The reason women don't want to marry a procrastinator is that all of the work that he doesn't do falls on who?
On her.
On her.
Except the procrastinator never says, Honey, I'm never going to get to this.
You're going to have to do it because I'm a lazy bastard, right?
What do procrastinators always say?
I'm going to do it tomorrow.
No, what do they always say?
What do procrastinators always say?
That it's going to be done eventually.
I got it.
Yeah, I got you, girl.
I'll handle this.
Put it on my pile.
Right?
Yeah.
And so it's worse for them than if you just told them the truth that you weren't ever going to do it.
Because then...
What do they have to do?
They have to nag!
And they have to remind you, did you get this done?
Please get this done.
I will, I'll do it tomorrow.
Please, I'm just, you know, they can't, it's just easier to do it themselves.
Yeah.
And this shows up in your business life, this shows up in your friendship life, this shows up in your romantic life.
A woman of quality looks at you and sees that she's going to be lashed in the salt mines of Kessel for the rest of her natural fucking existence.
Because you'll keep making promises you won't fulfill, and it will slowly drive her insane.
Yeah.
So the reason you don't procrastinate is because you want a quality woman to want to spend more than four minutes with you.
Yeah, that's true.
So men always complain about nagging, and I get that, but maybe there's a reason.
Maybe it's because men keep making promises that they just don't do.
And what choice do the women have?
If the women say, I'll do it, the man's like, no, no, no, I got it.
They get really mad, right?
No, no, you don't need, honey, I'll do it.
No, no, no, honey, you don't need to, then do it.
Okay, I will.
Okay, and then he doesn't do it.
It's a torture.
It's a torture for your partner.
You're mentally torturing her, particularly organized and efficient women.
Yeah.
And it's passive-aggressive, and it's entitled, and it's ridiculously immature.
That's what children do, right?
When children feel pushed around to do chores, I'll do it later.
Later, man, I'm in the middle of a game.
I'll do it later.
I'll do the dishes later.
Don't push me, man.
Don't bully me.
I'll get there.
It's just this passive-aggressive, don't want to participate, entitled semi-aristocratic laziness that inflicts massive suffering.
On everyone else based upon dishonesty and laziness.
Because everyone talks about procrastination, but nobody talks about the dishonesty around procrastination, which is promising that you'll get shit done when you're lying through your teeth.
And listen, I'm not perfect this way, so I'm not launching missiles from some place of nirvana, right?
I mean, I have to remind myself that if I promise to do something, I have to do it.
And, you know, part of everyone...
It wants to be kind of aristocratic and let other people handle things.
I mean, I remember once I was at a half-finished cottage with one of my employees, and he got up to, and it was freezing, it was like the middle of February, and he got up to feed the fire.
He got up to put more logs on the fire, and I let him do it.
And I gotta tell you, it was petty, it was vainglorious, it was aristocratic, and it's just like, oh, he's an employee, he's got it.
It was kind of Weasley.
Of course I should have gotten up to do some of the logs.
I mean, that's just a little instance.
So, you know, I think most of us have these kinds of stories where we just kind of go rubber bones and let someone else do stuff and whatever.
I mean, it wasn't the end of the world and all of that kind of stuff, but it was not my most ennobling moment of egalitarianism.
So the reason you deal with the procrastination is because you want a quality woman in your life.
I mean, what did your Muslim ex think about your procrastination?
Didn't she go kind of nuts that she didn't get your teeth and stuff fixed?
Yeah, she would.
But I tend to pick women who are not naggy.
I tend to pick...
She was an opposite of that.
She is like...
Get up early and, like, do everything.
And I kind of, like, I appreciate that type of person.
And she liked that I am, like, chill and, like, relaxed and bad stuff happens and I'm, like, not reacting at it.
No, no, but that's not you, though.
You is letting your tooth rot in your skull.
Yeah.
Right?
You know that bacteria, you swallow it, it can be bad for your heart.
Like, you are a time bomb.
Yeah.
So this is not chill.
This is not chill.
This is self-destructive.
Yeah, I have low neuroticism, and I tend to not react to serious situations.
Are you saying that the reason why you're courting death by having a tooth rot in your head is because you're not neurotic enough?
I mean, it's possible.
I have read somewhere that neuroticism correlates with doctor visits or something like this.
Okay.
So you've just reframed it that you're just a chill guy.
So it's kind of like a virtue.
You're not nail-biting like all these neurotics out there who actually get their health taken care of.
Yeah, that's a bad framing of this.
I mean, it's a fine framing if you want to swallow a lot of bacteria.
It's a fine frame because here's the thing, man.
If people care about you, they won't put up with your procrastination.
Because if a woman cares about you and you've got a tooth rotten in your head...
She will make you go to the dentist.
Because she cares about you.
And she cares about herself.
Particularly if you have kids.
Because it's dangerous.
Plus, if you know, do you suffer pain from this tooth?
Alright, let's see here.
Are we still on?
I think we lost him.
Okay, I'm sorry we lost him.
Maybe he ran out of power or something like that.
Not the end of the world.
But yeah, if people care about you...
This is one of the reasons why married men live longer.
If people care about you, they don't watch you do things that are really bad and dangerous for yourself.
Then, you know, a woman will make you go to the doctor.
Women make men go to get your blood work done and get your checkup done and all these kinds of things, right?
And so, women care.
If they gain weight, if you gain weight, they'll tell you, hey, you need to lose some weight.
If you don't exercise, they'll say, hey, you got to make sure you exercise because they care about you.
And so the other thing, too, is that if you are a procrastinator, particularly in matters of health, then a woman who cares about you won't want to be around you because when you care about someone, you don't want to see them harm themselves.
Like if you love someone, you wouldn't want to see them hit their hand with a ball-peen hammer repeatedly.
That would be painful to you because you...
You care about them, right?
So you wouldn't want to get involved in or do that.
So yeah, he procrastinated paying his internet bill.
It's kind of funny.
And so yeah, this self-discipline stuff, there is a form of aristocratic display called I'm not going to answer your questions.
So people who lack self-discipline won't answer questions because they view having to answer questions as a mark of submission and subjugation.
Right.
And I'm not saying they're wrong.
For a lot of our childhoods, you have to answer the teacher's question.
And the teacher does not have to answer your questions.
You have to answer the police's questions.
They don't have to answer your questions.
And so the ability to not answer questions is a mark of aristocracy.
Right?
When the king questions you, you better answer.
But the king doesn't have to say anything to you.
And so, for a lot of people, submitting themselves to the self-discipline of simply answering questions is perceived or experienced as low status.
It's low status to have to answer questions because powerful people, like politicians or whatever, they don't have to answer questions.
I mean, can you imagine trying to get through a job interview as if you were a politician?
You know, like they ask you a simple question and you just go on these diatribes or whatever.
Can you imagine trying to get a job by answering questions like a politician does, like it would never happen?
I think you're back, my friend, so if you want to just finish up, I'm going to go get myself some lunch, but I wanted to give you some sort of last thoughts or words.
Yeah, I'm sorry, my internet broke, so I'm back.
So somebody at the internet company was procrastinating on...
So, go ahead.
Yeah, possibly.
Thank you for listening to my problems and sharing your wisdom.
I agree with much of what you have said.
You have pinpointed some of my break in the logic or maybe not being as direct, like not answering some questions.
I'm probably not just disappointing somebody that I am talking with, but also myself by not really answering my own questions at some point.
But you also dated a very aristocratic woman, right?
Like you said, she came from a long line of Muslim rulers and leaders and so on, right?
So you dated a kind of an aristocratic woman.
And I think having the self-discipline to answer questions in a direct manner is something that feels, in a very status culture, it feels low status, but it is actually something that's going to be positive for you.
Because when you meet people, they are probing for empathy and they're probing for negotiation.
Like a quality woman, when she meets you, she's probing for empathy.
And one of the ways that you can not display empathy...
Is to not answer people's questions and not even notice it?
Because that means that the other person who's trying to get information from you exists only as a prop for you to go on a speech, not this person needs information and I'm going to provide that information or I'm going to say that I'm not going to provide the information, right?
People can't just command you, right?
And so I think for you, there's a certain amount of pride in not answering questions.
In not just being direct and answering questions, because I think it feels like maybe you were questioned in a very aggressive way as a kid, you know, who broke this lamp?
Why didn't you do your homework or whatever?
And then you've got to go on these diatribes or sort of side quests, so to speak.
But a woman of quality is going to be looking to, okay, I've asked him a question.
Does he remember that I've asked him a question?
And does he have the sympathy to answer my question?
You know, like when I met my wife and she said, what's the story with your family?
I didn't just go on log abstract speeches about the history of families in the world.
Because that would be disrespectful to her.
Because she has a right to ask me those questions if we're dating.
And she has a right to the answer.
And it's rude to not answer questions.
It's non-empathetic to not answer questions.
Because you're...
Not recognizing the other person is asking for information and you should provide it or tell the person that you're not going to do it.
So I guess what I'm really looking for and I think what will help you the most is just humility, which is when people ask you questions, answer them and really focus on being concise and really focus on conveying as much information as possible because that shows empathy towards the other person and you can't really negotiate if you're not exchanging information.
Relatively clearly and relatively concisely so.
I really do appreciate the call, though.
It's absolutely fascinating, and I certainly wish you the best.
So just, you know, honestly, make a list of the couple of things you need to do to fix your health.
Just do it.
Just give yourself the order.
Pretend that there's a guy in funny pants yelling at you, I don't know, in German, whatever the hell works for you, right?
And just, you know, yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir, just make yourself do it.
If you've got to order yourself, you've got to order yourself, but I don't want you to...
Never call them again because you had a heart attack from teeth bacteria.
All right.
Thanks, everyone, so much for your time today.
Freedomain.com to help out the show.
It is gratefully, deeply, and humbly appreciated.
And please, please, please don't forget to join us tonight for the 7 p.m.
live stream.
And I really do appreciate everyone's time today.
Lots of love from up here, my friends.
I'll talk to you soon.
▲
Export Selection