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Jan. 15, 2025 - Freedomain Radio - Stefan Molyneux

02:10:59

MY WIFE WON'T TOUCH ME! Freedomain Call In

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	Okay, well, nice to meet you.
	Tell me and remind me the cause for the call.
	I couldn't find you through this regular call-in show folder, so just remind me what we're here for.
	Oh, sure.
	So last time, I think we talked a few months ago, and we were talking about how we went through my childhood and how I was bullied and my parents were neglectful and all that stuff, and then I ended up meeting a borderline girl who was a sex addict.
	And you revealed to me that it was partially my fault that she ended up the way she did and we ended up using each other quite a bit.
	And I struggled through the last hour of that session just not understanding that I was as much a victim as I was the perpetrator of that whole situation.
	Yeah, I remember now.
	I'm all ears.
	So yeah, what's the latest and greatest?
	Alright, so my wife and I are currently in the throes of attempting to have our first child, which is fantastic.
	And I wanted to call in because I'm struggling to deal with her background, her sort of history, and wanting to understand why she's sort of...
	Well, she...
	Sorry, I'm a bit nervous here, so you'll have to forgive me.
	Yeah, so...
	She's having trouble with intimacy, and there's very, very good reasons for this.
	Sorry, by intimacy, do you mean sex?
	No, no, no.
	Not sex, but everything.
	There's very little cuddling or sweetness or any of that stuff.
	She's very sort of off in the corner doing her own thing.
	I sympathize with her and I struggle with her because I know exactly what she's going through.
	I just want to say by the outset that I'm not angry with her by any means.
	She has plenty of good reason to feel this way.
	This is kind of why I wanted to call in and just see what your thoughts were on the whole situation.
	I'm all ears.
	All right, so four and a half years ago, we've been dating for three years, and suddenly her brother dies.
	So he dies in a violent car crash, and it's unbelievably tragic.
	And ever since that point...
	Sorry, what happened with the crash?
	Cause, effects?
	Like, what was the story?
	Alright, so she was living with him in his house that he owns.
	I'm living in it now.
	And they were essentially roommates.
	Oh, so you and your wife are living in her dead brother's house, right?
	Correct, yeah.
	Yeah, and he was a phenomenal tradesman in our region, and he was off on a job, and she was taking care of the house.
	And then basically what happened is, I'm not going to reveal too much about where exactly we live, but there's a particularly dangerous road that he had to travel along in order to get to this job site.
	And the weather was particularly bad that evening.
	He slid off the road, and then somebody fell.
	Well, somebody slipped in the exact same way that he did and crashed into him while he was standing outside of his car calling for help.
	And so broke his neck.
	And then the entire family kind of fell apart immediately afterwards.
	Wow.
	Wow.
	Yeah, I'm sorry about that.
	That's awful.
	So, I mean, there was nobody particularly at fault.
	He wasn't drunk.
	The other guy wasn't drunk.
	It was just...
	Because, you know, a lot of times accidents don't really turn out to be accidents, if that makes sense?
	No.
	There were blood tests done on both of them.
	He was completely clean.
	So was the driver that hit him.
	It was just bad weather.
	Yeah, just bad weather, bad luck.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	And so, you said four and a half years ago?
	Four and a half years ago, yeah.
	All right.
	And then?
	And then her mother kind of revealed herself to us and especially me, where I knew that her mom was kind of crazy all along, but she went on this weird little psycho trip where she tried to command legions of people across all families.
	And it's like, oh, my son, my son.
	And she never bothered to actually...
	Lift up her daughter.
	When you say command legions of members, what does that mean in practical terms?
	Like, what actually happened?
	Yes, okay, so there was like a big parade of sympathy, and it's not like...
	Okay, sorry, when you say parade of sympathy, that sounds scornful, and I'm just trying to make sure I... Parade seems sort of fake.
	I mean, this was a genuine tragedy, and now the family may not have handled it that well, but I just need to sort of understand, because...
	Because you've thought about this stuff for years, I'm just hearing it for the first time.
	So if you give me a lot of adjectives and words that I'm not sure what they mean, then it's hard for me to follow what you're saying.
	So if you can tell me what happened rather than your interpretation about it, then I can understand at least the source of your emotions.
	Understood.
	So at the moment that this happened, the world entered its lockdown period.
	And so...
	The funeral was extremely drawn out where they had to have five or six separate funerals over the course of a week and a half.
	And it was extremely brutal.
	Because they wanted limited people.
	Oh, okay.
	So they had to cycle people in and out because you couldn't gather too many people together at the same time?
	Correct.
	Yeah.
	So a lot of people gathered and it was...
	Extremely brutal on my wife because she had to go to six or seven different funerals with her brother.
	Oh yeah, she's turning into like Giuliani after 9-11.
	Yeah, that's rough, man.
	And so, let me just back up just a smidge here.
	So, as soon as I heard that her brother died, I immediately moved into the house.
	She asked me...
	And sorry, how long have you guys been going out at this point?
	Three years.
	Three years.
	Okay.
	And this isn't the same woman that we talked about last time, or is it?
	No, no, no.
	No, I didn't think so.
	Okay, so you've been going out for three years, and then you move in when her brother dies.
	And she was already living in her brother's house, is that right?
	Yeah, they had a special arrangement where he made all the money and paid all the bills, and she would just, you know, clean and cook and do sort of normal chores and household duties.
	Okay.
	Did he have a family?
	Yes.
	So, this is where things get complicated, so I'm going to have to jump around a little bit here.
	She was extremely close with her brother.
	My wife, I mean.
	And they grew up together always.
	They were born in a separate part of the country where the mom and dad were never married.
	And her mom was a serial cheater.
	So we hope that they're siblings, yeah.
	Yes, but she looks a lot like her dad.
	So I fully believe that he is her actual biological father.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	But he sort of kind of sat in the background and dealt with it and didn't really make any mention of it.
	Sorry, he sort of sat in the background.
	He being who in the background of what?
	Oh, sorry.
	The father.
	Okay, so the father did not particularly seem to react much that the mother was sleeping around.
	His wife.
	Okay.
	Yep, and then her mother, my wife and her brother, their mother, she met a guy when she was about, when my wife was about four or five years old, and then just...
	Trounced off to a separate part of the country and married him.
	So she left the family.
	And she left the kids with your wife's mom?
	Sorry, dad, right?
	Correct, but no.
	Correct, but no.
	Okay, got it.
	Yeah, so they gave the kids the choice.
	Who do you want to stay with?
	And the brother...
	He said, I want to go with mom across the country.
	And my wife said, I'm just going to go wherever my brother goes.
	And the father drove them both to the airport, and then they left their father and came across the country to here, where the mom entered into a relationship with the man who was abusive towards them both.
	Oh, the man that she fell in love with and left the family for was abusive to both the kids?
	Correct.
	Abusive in what way?
	Physically.
	So he...
	I'm just giving you what I know, and my wife, she struggles with a little bit of memory loss about this subject, presumably because she has a touch of PTSD, which is undiagnosed.
	But that's my guess.
	And she recalls stories to me about how he was physically abusive, like grabbing her arm and throwing her into a wall and screaming at her.
	And it got to the point where her brother had to physically defend her at some point.
	Wow, okay.
	And I assume that the mother knew about this sort of stuff.
	Yes, and that's what makes me so angry, is she didn't leave the guy.
	But I'm just telling the story the way I know it.
	Well, she might have enjoyed watching it.
	She might be sadistic, right?
	And we're going to get there, because it definitely feels like she is sadistic, and I can probably tell you some details about the things that she said.
	We'll get to that, but what was the story with your wife's father?
	I mean, I assume that he spent some time with his kids.
	Did he not know or find out that they were being abused?
	That's another thing that makes me angry, Steph.
	He had to have known, but he did nothing.
	How did he know?
	Because my wife's brother would call him.
	My wife's brother, he actually had a very strong relationship with the father, with his father, and I don't understand why he didn't just jump on a plane and do something about it.
	That may be a little bit of too sweet to say.
	How much older was the brother?
	I think he was four years older.
	Okay.
	And so he was close with his father, so when he and his sister were getting abused, you don't know why her brother didn't just call the dad and say, whoops, took a wrong turn at Albuquerque, and we need to not be here.
	We're going to come and live with you.
	Yeah.
	You see, I don't want to blame him because he was really young, obviously.
	He's probably 10 years old at this point.
	I don't understand why his dad didn't fly out.
	Sorry, do you have confirmation that the father knew?
	And I'm not disagreeing with you.
	Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.
	But did he know?
	I mean, did the sister or the brother ever say, yes, we told him?
	Or we had bruises all over us when we went to visit him, or something like that.
	So my father-in-law was over a few months ago, and he confirmed it.
	Oh, so he confirmed that he knew?
	Yes.
	Got it.
	Okay, so it doesn't really matter how he knew, so he knew.
	And why did he not act?
	That's what...
	It infuriates me, Stefan.
	Okay, we keep talking about your feelings.
	I get that you're upset about this, but I need to get to the facts.
	I know.
	I don't know.
	Okay, so he said, I knew, but he never, and your wife didn't ask him, and he never said, here's why I didn't act.
	Correct.
	Okay, got it.
	So, was it 50-50, or did they mostly, I guess not, if they were asked who they want to live with, so they mostly stayed with the mom, is that right?
	Yeah, they stay with the mom.
	He continues to live on the other side of the country, and we see him every now and then.
	Sorry, as kids, did they just stay 100% of the time with the mom?
	Correct.
	So the dad gave up complete custody?
	Yes.
	Why?
	He was already involved with another woman soon after, and now my wife has a half-brother.
	Oh, so he dumped his kids so he could get laid?
	Yeah.
	Okay, got it.
	Sorry, it's a dirtbag.
	You don't give up your kids because you got a new girlfriend, right?
	Correct.
	Okay, so I'm not sure why this guy's in your life at all, but we'll get to that.
	Yeah, I'm sure we will.
	So there she stayed, my wife, when she was a kid.
	And eventually, of course, her mom and this guy, this asshole, they break up and she immediately marries another guy.
	And my wife starts to realize a pattern with her mom where she keeps on dumping guys and getting with somebody who has more money.
	Yeah, Hypergamy 101, sure.
	Yep.
	And she realizes that this is not model relationship behavior, but she also recognizes a pattern where the male figures in her life keep on disappearing, abandoning her, and just not living up to the standards of what a real man should be, if that makes sense.
	No.
	Can you tell me what you mean?
	Oh, I'm jumping ahead of myself again.
	So, she already feels like her father is abandoning her.
	But that's not a feeling.
	Her father abandoned her, yeah?
	Yep, absolutely.
	And her mother doesn't seem to care about her or the family.
	She doesn't want to keep the father in the life.
	Was the mother getting child support from the father?
	Yes.
	Okay, so they're cash cows in a way, right?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I'm sure she was getting more child support than she was spending on the kids.
	So, okay.
	Yeah.
	So, the only stable male figure in her life is her brother.
	And he becomes extremely successful just doing his trade job stuff.
	He's able to buy the house.
	And he's looking after her.
	We just exited the...
	Last time I met the brother, he was 10. Now he's like an adult with a trade.
	So what happened in their teenage years?
	Nobody ever told the dad, nobody ever told anyone else, neither of the two kids, right?
	Correct.
	Okay.
	And nobody knows why, right?
	That's right.
	I assume because the dad wouldn't have done anything.
	And still hasn't, and still won't.
	Well, it's too late now, but all right.
	Okay, so teenage years, so brother goes on to become a successful tradesman.
	Okay, and then?
	Yep, and so he's looking after my now wife, and life is going pretty okay until he dies tragically.
	And sorry, was he late 20s, early 30s?
	You don't have to give me the exact year, but roughly how old was he?
	Late 20s.
	Late 20s, okay.
	And he had a family, is that right?
	No, he was single.
	Okay.
	Something a bit odd about that.
	Something a bit odd about...
	Did he date much, or...?
	I'm told that he dated a little bit, but he was very secretive about it.
	Okay.
	But as far as we know, nobody showed up to his funeral carrying flowers and saying, yeah, I was the last guy that he dated.
	Nothing like that.
	Yeah, it seems a bit odd that the brother would not really date, but have his sister almost perform the functions of a wife, obviously outside of the physical, right, the romantic, but that he would have his sister perform the functions of a wife, but he himself wouldn't really date, because you said she took room and board in exchange for housekeeping, right?
	That's exactly right.
	And I always thought that was weird myself.
	Okay.
	But there was never any, like, inclination that anything untoward was happening.
	Oh, no, no.
	I'm not trying to say anything about that.
	I mean, obviously, I'm not saying that there's any sort of incest, but I am saying that it does seem a bit odd.
	It seems stuck in the past, in a way.
	Or having relationships.
	So that you don't have, like having pre-existing relationships so you don't have to navigate new relationships?
	Right.
	It's almost like they were playing family because they were trying to mimic something that they never really had themselves.
	Yeah, I think there's a stuckness to that because, I mean, obviously siblings should be close and all of that, but I don't know about you, you know, you perform the non-physical or non-romantic functions of a wife and I'll pay you a room and board.
	And, you know, maybe you could do that for a little bit after college or early 20s, but by the time your wife's in her mid-20s and her brother is in his late 20s, if there's still not much dating going on on his side, it does start to look a bit odd.
	To me, anyway.
	Yeah, for sure.
	For sure.
	But he was always a really good guy.
	You know, I would come over, we would drink some beers together, play video games.
	He was just really focused on work and making money.
	I mean, the guy, even before...
	Becoming 30, he was just taking money hand over fist, like he was already a bloody journeyman.
	He was a really nice guy, a really sweet, hard-working guy.
	That's why I miss him.
	But, sorry, hard-working for what?
	What does he work hard for?
	I mean, normally men work hard for their families, right?
	For their families.
	Or at least to...
	To date, you know, they work hard to date.
	So what was he, and I'm just curious, like, what was he working hard for?
	I'm going to have to guess, but based on what he spent his money on, it was mostly just, well, he spent money on the house, and then he would spend a whole bunch of money creating a home theater in the basement, you know, video games, big, giant audio system.
	TV, all that.
	So he's stuck in teenage life.
	Right.
	Okay, got it.
	All right.
	So this whole...
	I'm sorry, what time of day was the...
	Sorry to interrupt.
	What time of day was the car crash?
	Was it nighttime?
	Yeah, it was late at night.
	Okay, and he was doing a job, right?
	Yeah, he was on his way home from...
	Doing a hospital job.
	Right, so workaholism contributed to his death, right?
	Correct.
	Because he shouldn't have been working that time of night, right?
	Well, he shouldn't have been...
	I would often stay over at this house and he would be up at three o'clock in the morning getting into his car and driving off in the snow.
	I even told my wife that it was too much.
	Right, okay.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Sorry, go ahead.
	I have to calm down a bit because I'm nervous about...
	She knows that I'm talking to you today and she's fully well aware of what we're going to be talking about, but it's still...
	Okay.
	Anyway, so the funeral happens and I'm immediately...
	It's not that this job of being the new sort of male figure in my wife's life is thrust upon me.
	I asked for it.
	I volunteered for it.
	It's what I wanted.
	And I watched as her family sort of congregated around this whole tragedy, and it became the mom show.
	And it's...
	Oh my gosh.
	I feel like I need to keep saying this over and over again.
	What does the mom show mean?
	I don't know.
	I mean, I know it's like narcissistic kind of whatever, making it all about herself and so on, but I'm just begging you.
	See, here's the thing.
	I'll sort of tell you why I do this, right?
	So you have a narrative.
	About what's happening.
	We all do.
	We all have a narrative about everything that happens, because we can't re-experience things directly, right?
	So, we all have a story or a narrative about what happened.
	So, there's the facts, and then there's a story about it.
	There's nothing wrong with it.
	We are, you know, meaning-making machines, as the saying goes, and we create morals and stories and extract things out of what happened.
	Now, so, you keep telling me your story about what happened, right?
	Which is fine.
	Except that the problem is that whatever story it is about what's happening in your life isn't working.
	Right.
	Because if it was working, you wouldn't be calling me.
	So basically, you're going to the doctor and you're saying, I'm in a huge amount of pain, right?
	And the doctor says, well, where does it hurt?
	And you say, well, it doesn't hurt here.
	It doesn't hurt here.
	Here's no problem.
	And at some point, what's the doctor going to say?
	Why are you talking to me?
	Don't tell me where it doesn't hurt.
	So the problem has something to do with your narrative about life.
	Right?
	So some moral, some story that you have is not working for you.
	So if you keep telling me your stories rather than the facts, then all I'm hearing is what's not working.
	And I don't have any facts to compare it to.
	So, you know, when you said it's a parade of sympathy and, you know, it's the mom show and all of that, these are all, you know, fairly scathing conclusions, I assume, about your selfish mother-in-law.
	Is that fair to say?
	Yes, absolutely.
	Okay, but if you're just going to give me your conclusions, philosophy cannot help you because philosophy is supposed to be about the truth.
	Now, your conclusions may be true, but they may not be true.
	But if all I hear about is your conclusions, I don't know what's true or not.
	All I know is what you are saying.
	The morals and the stories that you have generated about the events.
	Whereas if you tell me what the events are, right?
	Like, if someone says to me, well, I have a problem in my marriage because my wife is cheating on me, right?
	Okay, well, that sounds pretty bad, right?
	So, of course, it's a problem in your marriage if your wife is cheating on you.
	But if I say, well, what happened?
	Give me the facts, right?
	I'll deal with the story.
	Well, no, hang on, hang on.
	Let me finish my part here.
	So, if some guy says, my wife's cheating on me, it's a big problem.
	I say, oh, well, what happened?
	Now, if he says, well, I found her in bed with another man, okay, then she's cheating on him, right?
	But if he says, I caught her looking at another man at the mall, right?
	Then his narrative that she's cheating on him is incorrect, right?
	Right.
	So, that's why I keep saying, what are the facts?
	And it's tough to get out of a narrative, but narrative is also habitual thinking.
	We actually start to think more originally when we look at the facts, right?
	So just tell me what happened and try to stay away from the moral or narrative interpretation of what happened, because then all I'm doing is I'm seeing your story about what happened.
	I'm not...
	Right?
	It's like if there's a trial, do you want a verbal description or do you want video evidence?
	I want video evidence.
	Why?
	Because it proves that what happened and what's being described...
	You get to decide for yourself.
	Right?
	You get to decide for yourself.
	Like, I'm sure you've heard every single...
	It seems like almost every other woman who breaks up with a guy has to say he was a controlling, narcissistic X, Y, and Z, right?
	But then if you actually ask what happened, it's like, okay, then it's...
	It's usually quite different from the description.
	So that's why I'm going to keep nagging you to just let me start with the facts, because otherwise I don't have anything to compare what you're saying to.
	You are absolutely right, and I completely agree with you, and I'm sorry about that.
	No, it's fine.
	Go ahead.
	Okay, so we went through the series of funerals, and now?
	Yes.
	So the story I wanted to give, it occurred...
	Very soon after the funerals where my wife's mother, she's putting on...
	I don't even know what you would call it.
	She held a kind of posthumous celebration day for my wife.
	Something like that.
	Okay.
	Yeah, like a celebration of the life of the guy who died.
	Yes.
	And during this...
	She gives a speech to the crowd in which she...
	I'm going to tell you sort of what I remember her saying and what my wife thought of it.
	So her speech was something like, you know, moms and their sons and fathers and their daughters.
	We just have a special connection with our opposite-sex sons.
	Almost kind of...
	Implying that she loved her son more than her daughter.
	Okay, the first part is what she said.
	The second part is a narrative, right?
	So, a special bond just means it's different.
	And, of course, a relationship between a mother-daughter and a mother-son is going to be different.
	Now, the mother-daughter has the special bond because they share the same sex, right?
	Whereas the mother-son is a special, they have to say it's a special bond, right?
	Because they don't share the same sex, they have less in common, and therefore there's just a different kind of bond.
	Whether this means I love more or less is a matter of speculation, and of course this is a woman who's buried her son, and she's quite emotional, so let's just, you know, I would aim to be as charitable as possible without saying that what you're saying is wrong, but let's not get into the implications, just stay with the facts.
	So she said, A mother and a son have a special bond.
	Right.
	Okay.
	And that's because the mother and the daughter automatically have a special bond because they share the same sex.
	But she's saying there's also a special bond for the son.
	That's not as obvious.
	But anyway, go on.
	Yes.
	And so I'm holding my wife as she says this, and my wife immediately starts crying.
	And she only explained to me later that that was her interpretation of it, that she loved her son more than her.
	Sorry, this was four and a half years ago, four years ago, and changed, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Okay, so your wife is in her mid-twenties, right?
	Yes.
	So why the fuck would you think her mother loves either of them since her mother kept exposing them to abusive men?
	Maybe I'm missing something.
	No, no, no.
	You have it exactly right, and that is exactly how I try to put it to her sometimes when I'm trying to describe.
	Like, just the deepness of her mother's neglect.
	Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by neglect.
	If I keep bringing dogs home that chew the shit out of my children and bite them, is that neglect?
	I suppose it's active abuse, isn't it?
	Well, it's not neglect.
	Neglect is when you ignore your children, not when you bring men into the house who throw them against walls.
	That's not neglect.
	I mean, sorry, unless we're using some different terms.
	No, no, I actually appreciate the clarification.
	This is extremely helpful.
	So her mother is bringing abusers into the home.
	So how does she care about anybody?
	How does she care about her children at all?
	Well, generally, we...
	Abuse people we hate.
	And the mother didn't just bring the abuser into the home.
	She left the father, moved across the country, and the children came to live with her, and she kept them there while being abused by the man she pursued.
	So she pursued and stayed with and fucked a man who beat the shit out of her children.
	Okay, that's not neglect, but anyway, okay, so...
	Still not sure why the mom was in anybody's life, unless there'd been some massive reform and therapy and apologies and tears and restitution, but I assume not, right?
	No, nothing.
	And that's actually part of the reason why I'm calling, is because I've been trying to get her into therapy, and I feel guilty myself for not making it happen.
	What do you mean?
	Sorry, what do you mean making it happen?
	You got forced into therapy?
	Sorry, come again?
	Well, you can't force her into therapy.
	You can't make it happen.
	How do you make it happen?
	No, no, I can't.
	But what I can do is find phone numbers, find out what her benefits cover, give her the phone numbers, call the office, ask them if they're taking new clients.
	And these are all things that I've done.
	No, no, no, that's not even particularly wise.
	Because if you do all the work, then she is not as motivated.
	Okay.
	So is it fair to say, let's go back four and a half years.
	So how long have you known your wife in total?
	Almost eight years now.
	Okay, almost eight years.
	So four and a half years ago, you're three and a half years into the relationship.
	And how long have you been listening to what I did?
	Ooh, geez.
	Longer.
	Ten years.
	Probably.
	Okay.
	So you land into this family with a highly toxic, dysfunctional, and abusive structure.
	You have a father who abandoned his children and a mother who brought, as far as I remember, more than one.
	The last I heard was two abusers into the house where she had trapped her children and let him or maybe even encouraged the men to go after her children.
	Is that fair to say?
	Yes.
	It was only one, though.
	Oh, I'm so sorry.
	So she was with the one guy.
	I thought she brought another guy in, but he wasn't.
	Sorry.
	First guy, it didn't work out.
	She brought another guy in, but the second guy wasn't abusive.
	Is that right?
	Second guy's okay, yes.
	Second guy's okay.
	And how long were her children with the abusive guy?
	I have my notes right here.
	Ten years.
	Oh, okay.
	So, pretty much their childhood.
	Yeah.
	Okay, because you said the brother was 10, so that's past his childhood.
	I guess your wife was like 5 or 6, and so that brings her to mid-teens, right, which is most of her childhood, right?
	Yes, exactly.
	So 10 years.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	So both parents knew that the children were being violently assaulted, and did your wife ever indicate, or did you get a sense from her brother, how often these attacks would occur?
	They didn't talk about it.
	They kind of just left it in the past.
	When I met my wife, she'd already been living with her brother, and they were just living together here.
	So no, they never really talked about it.
	The only time when they did talk about it was when I brought it up.
	But they mentioned that it was seldom, but you know...
	Once a month is still horrific, but once every six months is...
	You can't say that that's not equally horrific.
	So what I'm...
	So the answer is you don't know, right?
	The answer is I don't know.
	That's fine.
	That's fine.
	It's fine that we don't know.
	I just was wondering if there was knowledge there.
	Okay.
	And do you know why the mother left the abusive man?
	So the story I'm told from my wife is that she just found another guy who had more money.
	All right.
	Yes, you mentioned it.
	Okay.
	All right.
	All right.
	So, she was with this guy.
	This guy made more money than your wife's biological father.
	Is that right?
	The abusive guy?
	Yeah, by a lot.
	Okay.
	So, she basically let him beat up her children in return for money?
	Correct.
	Okay.
	Why are you...
	So you meet your wife eight years ago, and I assume you fairly quickly find out some aspects of this history, right?
	Absolutely.
	Okay.
	So why are you breaking bread with this woman?
	Why are you at any social events where she is?
	Like, I'm trying to follow this part.
	So I'm not.
	I've actually...
	I haven't seen her in over two years now because I refuse to be in the same house or the same room.
	So that's...
	I don't know what you're doing with that response.
	We're talking eight years ago.
	Saying, well, I was with her for six years, but for the last two years, I haven't.
	Doesn't answer the first six years.
	Yes.
	And so, I'm not saying that I'm completely absolved.
	No, I'm not trying to attack you or make you feel bad.
	I'm genuinely curious, right?
	You've been listening to the show for a long time, and you come across a woman who is responsible for the love of your life, getting beaten up as a child repeatedly, or thrown against walls, or I don't know how, assaulted, right?
	And you're not part of Normie world, right?
	You're not in the Matrix, because you've listened to what I do.
	So I'm just trying to understand what your thinking was in hanging out with these people, like the mom, for six years.
	off and on.
	All right.
	Maybe you can walk me through this.
	I always hated this woman because I watched the way that she spoke to and about my now wife.
	Oh, so she was still nasty even when your wife was an adult, right?
	Yes, and before...
	Oh, no, your wife is late 20s now, right?
	Early 30s?
	Late 20s.
	Okay, got it, got it.
	Okay, so you didn't like...
	The mother of your girlfriend, right?
	Correct.
	But you still would see her?
	It was very, very small moments, like basically once a year on Christmas or Thanksgiving or something like that.
	And I would not speak to her, and I would leave early.
	Okay, how often was this woman in contact with your girlfriend at the time?
	They would speak about once a month.
	Okay, and what was your girlfriend's perspective on her mother?
	She hates her.
	Okay, so you both hate her, so did you suggest at some point, like, have it out with her, or you don't need to see her, or this woman is unrepentant child abuser?
	I mean, did you have those conversations years and years ago with your then-girlfriend?
	Yes, absolutely.
	And what did she say?
	This is the reason why I'm calling you, Steph.
	I hate to be so blunt, but she continues to talk to her mother, and it infuriates me to no end.
	And there's a really good reason for this.
	So when her brother died, he had a great life insurance policy.
	He left us the house, as I've said.
	And her mother took power of attorney because she was the witness to his will or whatever you call that, and kind of stole the house out from under us and took legal ownership of it.
	And I'm sorry, I'm a little confused.
	So your brother-in-law had a will, right?
	Yes.
	And who did he leave stuff to?
	My wife.
	So if...
	He left.
	And who was the beneficiary of his life insurance?
	It would have been my wife.
	It is my wife.
	It is your wife.
	So he left the house and his life insurance to your wife?
	Yes.
	So how does your mother end up?
	Did she take the life insurance money as well or just the house?
	She took everything.
	That's the question.
	So we've been struggling to find a lawyer where we can properly try and get this all sorted.
	But my wife is reticent to actually do anything about it because she's afraid of opening up the can of worms and having to fight with her mother in court of law.
	Okay, so then why not just walk away and move on with your life and leave all of that shitstorm behind?
	You mean the two of us, right?
	Yeah.
	That's exactly what I keep recommending.
	Because if you don't want to fight, then leave.
	But to stay around and not fight, that's kind of weird.
	If your house is burning down, you fight the fire or you get out of the house.
	You don't just stand there while it burns you down.
	Yes.
	And this is what's driving me insane.
	It's because I want to do something about it, like either let's fight or let's flee.
	And I can't understand this idea of sticking around with this horrible woman hanging over our necks all the time.
	I mean, has she kicked you out of your brother-in-law's house?
	No.
	Well, I don't think she can.
	But if she would, she could.
	She doesn't like me very much.
	Yeah, I still don't know.
	I mean, there's a death, you go to the will, the will is read, the deed to the house goes to your wife, and the life insurance is paid into your wife's bank account.
	I still don't understand how mom gets anything.
	Yeah, well, you're as confused as I am, because I keep trying to figure this out for myself, but I get no answers.
	Oh, so you've talked, I mean, there was a lawyer involved, I assume, in the disposition of your brother-in-law's estate, is that right?
	Yes.
	And he says, I have no idea how your mom ended up with all the money and the deed to the house.
	If I could give you an answer.
	No, no, but you've said you've tried to figure this out, right?
	So you've talked to the lawyer who was responsible for the disposition of your brother-in-law's assets in the will or probate process, right?
	Yes.
	So her mother, my mother-in-law, was given power of attorney.
	And she holds the legal ownership of the house that we now live in.
	Oh, so in the will, again, I'm not a lawyer, obviously, so I don't really know how this stuff works, but I'm not sure why there's power of attorney in a will where the property goes to your wife.
	Right you are.
	And that's why we suspect her of committing massive fraud against my wife and stealing her house.
	Again, I'm not an expert, but...
	I don't know how if it says, my life insurance in the house goes to my sister.
	Oh, so do you think that your mother-in-law might have, this is all theory, right?
	We don't know for a fact.
	Is your suspicion that your mother-in-law forged a new will and forged the signature of your brother-in-law where the will said, my insurance in the house goes to my mother?
	That's right.
	And I'm really sorry for drawing that out.
	I'm not a legal expert either, and I don't understand the linguistics, but yes, yes, that is the suspicion.
	Okay, so is it the case that your wife has a copy of your brother's will that contradicts what your mother and the lawyer are working with?
	Correct.
	Okay, got it.
	So then you would have to go to the lawyer and say, The mother-in-law has forged a signature and forged a will.
	It's fake.
	I have the original computer.
	I have what it was written on.
	I have the original will.
	I assume that the lawyer has the original will.
	And I guess the mother-in-law said, no, no, no, there was a new will that was never filed with the lawyer or something like that.
	Again, we're just theorizing here, right?
	So the mother said, oh, no, here's the new will.
	He only gave it to me.
	Here's his signature.
	And this will supersedes the last will, right?
	Yes, that's exactly right.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	Yeah, that's pretty ugly.
	That's pretty ugly.
	And of course, I don't know what the standard of proof is, right?
	I mean, I don't know what the standard of proof is for these kinds of things.
	I mean, I guess most people can come in and say, oh, here's a piece of paper I printed out, and here's my signature, here's the brother-in-law's signature.
	This supersedes the will.
	I suppose it was never filed, but the lawyer...
	So maybe it's a bit suspect that way, but I guess if the mother-in-law has swooped in saying the property and the money in the household goes to me, then who knows, right?
	I mean, that is something I guess you would have to fight in court.
	Exactly.
	And so...
	Not to beat a dead horse here, but you can kind of see where my frustration and my narrative comes from when I've witnessed all of this.
	So I guess it was a surprise.
	Sorry to interrupt.
	So the house and the money was supposed to come to your wife, but then it went to your mother and, I guess, was your wife not informed that there was a, quote, new will, wherein everything went to the mom and...
	She knew, but she didn't sign any documents.
	Well, I don't know that she would have to, because it would be the...
	I guess maybe somebody else would be the witness.
	Yeah, I don't know.
	I mean, generally, I think if there's a will with the lawyer, the lawyer has verified it, right?
	I think if somebody else comes waltzing in with another will, I think it's pretty suspect, isn't it?
	Because if somebody's completely rewriting their will, they would absolutely...
	Like, if your brother-in-law had rewritten his will to leave everything to the mother instead of his sister, then he would have made sure...
	That it would have been, you know, co-signed by the lawyer.
	It would have been stamped, you know, like affidavit style or whatever.
	It would have been the whole paperwork.
	The old will would have been thrown out.
	I guess everyone would have been informed.
	So if there is a will lodged with the lawyer where the signatures are all verified because the lawyer actually sat across from your brother-in-law and accepted the will, I think if somebody comes waltzing in, hey, I've got a new will, and it's never been registered, the lawyer's never seen it before, And nobody can really verify the signature and nobody has witnessed it.
	It seems to be, again, I'm obviously no lawyer, right?
	But in a sort of common sense way, that would seem to be pretty suspect.
	Like, why would the brother-in-law have a will with a lawyer and then have another new will that only the mother knew about and the lawyer didn't know about and your sister hadn't been informed, right?
	I mean, it just wouldn't make sense.
	And I assume there'd be no big rift between your wife and her brother, so it wouldn't really make sense that everything would change in that way.
	But yeah, again, I mean, I suppose that gets battled out in court or something like that, in which case, you know, you get to keep some stuff, but a whole bunch of money goes to lawyers, right?
	Exactly.
	And so it has to be one of three options.
	Either there was a fake will, and there's massive fraud going on.
	Or my wife had no idea what was happening and she just signed away something.
	Well, she didn't sign anything away, but she let something go that she had no idea about.
	Well, or I'm just completely stupid and I'm making up a crazy conspiracy theory about her mom.
	Well, no, hang on.
	So, again, we're just looking at this from non-law or eyes.
	This is a common sense thing, right?
	So your wife has a copy of a will because I assume that...
	Her brother has said to her, listen, should anything happen to me, the house and the life insurance goes to you, right?
	Correct.
	So, the lawyer has a copy of the will and the life insurance company has a copy of the beneficiary of the life insurance, right?
	These are two places where there's a formal registration of the benefits on death.
	Is that right?
	Yes.
	So, did the...
	And so the wife managed to get both the insurance and the house, right?
	So she managed to convince people that she was the beneficiary, even though...
	Or maybe she was given power of attorney so that she would then give the property to your wife, but she didn't.
	Or maybe it was something like that.
	That's exactly right, yeah.
	The promise was that eventually...
	Ooh, sweetheart, eventually when you're able to look after a house, I'll give it back to you.
	But not yet.
	And that was like half a decade.
	Oh, okay.
	So maybe the power of attorney is your mother-in-law gets to hold on to the property with the goal of giving it to your wife.
	But then, of course, I wouldn't understand.
	I mean, again, I'm no lawyer.
	I keep repeating this because it's important.
	I don't know what I'm talking about.
	I know.
	But no, it seems to me that it would be odd.
	Given that, I assume that the brother didn't hugely trust the mother because the mother brought a guy around who beat half the crap out of the kids for half a decade or more.
	And so I'm not sure why the property would then go to the mother in order to get to your wife.
	And all of this was, I guess, how long after the death, four and a half years ago, did the property end up with your mother-in-law?
	Immediately.
	And this story gets even more interesting because it was just a few years ago where I had somebody from the bank knocking at my front door asking if they could come in and take pictures.
	And when I asked them why and on whose behalf this was being done, he said, oh, it's my mother-in-law's name.
	Oh, she wants to sell the place, right?
	Well, she's looking for a remortgaging.
	And so I said, no.
	God.
	So, hmm, sorry.
	I'm getting angry again.
	So, she's stealing my wife's future, is how it feels to me.
	And I don't understand why I can't convince my wife to do anything about it, is why I'm so frustrated.
	Sorry, I'm calming down.
	I don't mind if you get emotional or frustrated or angry.
	I can understand that.
	All right.
	Okay.
	And what about your father-in-law?
	I mean, I guess the two men, right?
	I mean, the one she remarried and then your mother's biological father.
	Has she appealed to them for any help in this situation?
	Yes.
	So I managed to convince him to finance a lawyer for us.
	Him being biological or a stepfather?
	Biological.
	Biological father, okay.
	Yeah, because we revealed to him this...
	Mistrust and the feeling that we have that my wife's mother is committing fraud against us and ruining our future.
	And he said that he would finance a lawyer, so that's good.
	But then that was about four months ago.
	Oh, gosh.
	So four years after the situation.
	Yeah, well, I've been harping on this for years, and nothing's getting done.
	And I felt like, well, if no one's going to do anything about this, then I have to.
	Because if I don't do anything, then what kind of a piece of shit husband am I? Like, clearly, I'm not doing enough.
	So I have to make something happen.
	I have to do it.
	And so I spoke to him.
	He said that he would call a lawyer.
	He has one.
	Okay.
	And now he's reneging on the deal and saying that he's actually using the money to spend it on Christmas presents.
	And I don't know what to do with that piece of shit anymore.
	I'm so infuriated and so finished.
	I'm sorry, are you broke?
	Is there a reason why you can't spend a couple of grand on having a lawyer assess the situation?
	We don't have enough saved.
	You might remember from last conversation that I'm...
	I went through a serious illness and it prevented me from working.
	I'm working again now, but it's been taking us quite a while to get back up to standard.
	I mean, have you had to pay rent for the last however long?
	I mean, how long has your wife been living in your brother-in-law's place?
	Probably 10 years now.
	Okay, so she said 10 years rent-free.
	Well, she's paying now.
	Of course, after he died, we have to pay the fees and all that stuff.
	Sorry, what do you mean by fees?
	You mean like property taxes and stuff?
	Yeah, yeah.
	But she's lived rent-free for 10 years.
	Yeah.
	Okay, so she saved, I don't know, I mean, I can't even imagine, you know, how much money, right?
	But, you know, let's say it's two grand a month, 24,000 over 10, 24,000 a year.
	So she saved a quarter million dollars at least by living rent free for 10 years.
	It would be 1% of that money to, I would imagine, to get a lawyer to look into this.
	Yeah, she's not very good with money.
	And neither am I, to be honest with you.
	Well, maybe that's why the mother-in-law doesn't want to give you the money.
	Yeah, fair enough.
	Fair enough.
	So is she a spender?
	Where does the money go?
	Oh, yeah.
	She buys a whole lot of unnecessary crap.
	Right.
	Why does she do that, do you think?
	Well, we've talked about it a little bit.
	Quite a lot, actually.
	She's trying to...
	Well, she buys a whole bunch of small little things, toys, knickknacks, and...
	She jokes about it that she's trying to reclaim the childhood that she lost when her parents constantly told her no.
	Wait, she buys toys for herself?
	Yeah.
	Like what?
	Lego?
	Well, yeah.
	I mean, it's action figures, little plushies, stuff like that.
	So she's in her late 20s, and she's buying kids' toys for herself.
	That's right.
	I'm not sure that's super funny.
	What's going on with that?
	That seems odd.
	I think we both share the same kind of desperation to reclaim the childhood.
	Okay, you used that phrase, and I'm sorry for my ignorance, but I'm not sure what it means, reclaim childhood.
	You can't.
	I mean, there's no time machine, right?
	Yes, I understand.
	So for her, it's like, well, I could never afford this when I was a kid because I didn't have any money, and my parents always told me no, but now that I'm an adult and I'm working full-time, I can afford to buy this stupid toy that I can snuggle with at night.
	Okay.
	So she buys action figures because, I mean, you know, if your parents couldn't afford diapers, that doesn't mean you wear them as an adult to show them that you've completed your childhood, right?
	No, look, I'm with you, man.
	I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying.
	How pretty is she?
	Like, supermodel.
	Like, unbelievably beautiful.
	Okay, so you've obviously made some trade-offs, right?
	Because she's not assertive.
	She doesn't listen to you.
	She buys action figures.
	She wastes money.
	She hasn't saved anything despite 10 years rent-free.
	She won't fight her mother, and she won't let you or whatever, right?
	So you like the fact that she's super pretty, and I'm not sure what the frustration is, right?
	Like, you've done a trade, right?
	So you've given up.
	No, she's...
	Well, she's actually extremely caring and giving and nurturing, and she's very emotionally open and intelligent, despite all of the past stuff.
	So what I sense in her is something grander than what her...
	I don't know.
	Okay, so hang on.
	So you've been driven crazy for almost half a decade.
	Right?
	Because her mother has stolen probably, I don't know, a million dollars from her, right?
	By your estimation.
	I don't know for sure or not, right?
	But by your estimation, you think that there's a good likelihood that the mother has run off with about a million dollars, give or take, right?
	That's right.
	Okay.
	So this has been driving you crazy.
	And if your wife is really caring, then she should want to alleviate your suffering, right?
	By making a decision.
	Yep.
	Okay, so how is it that she's watching you go slowly nuts, twisting in the wind over this potential or suspected theft of a million dollars or so for half a decade, and she hasn't made any decisive action to either leave it behind or pursue it legally?
	Because it's been driving you crazy, right?
	So where's the caring?
	If something was driving my wife crazy, Day after day, week after week, month after month, and I just let it go on.
	How is that caring?
	Right, and that's why I'm calling you now, because I don't even understand it.
	No, no, sorry.
	You said she's caring.
	I'm not disagreeing with you, but what you've told me so far is not evidence of caring, but the opposite.
	Does it bother you that she buys action toys?
	Yes.
	Have you suggested that this is not the best way to get over a bad childhood?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	You said she cares.
	Does she listen?
	Does she ask you more?
	Does she listen to your wisdom?
	Or does she just go and buy more action toys and plushies?
	Sometimes she does.
	Most times, no.
	Okay.
	So she's not listening.
	She's not caring about your opinion.
	She's doing what she wants.
	She's not listening to you about how to deal with the mother-in-law.
	She's doing what she wants and feels comfortable with in the moment, right?
	That's right, yeah.
	So give me an example of the caring thing.
	I'm not saying there isn't one.
	I'm not disagreeing with you.
	I'm just saying I'm a little lost in the woods here about the whole my wife is so caring thing.
	So if you could set me straight or give me a path to follow, I'd appreciate it.
	Okay, well, when I was sick, she...
	She went to work.
	She worked super hard and made all the money, paid all the bills, and took care of me when I was at home, laying on the couch and unable to move.
	I feel like that's a pretty good example.
	Yep, I think that's good.
	Now, the problem with taking care of someone is it's not a negotiation, and you don't have to surrender something to the other person's will or expertise.
	Okay.
	I mean, I'm not putting your mother, sorry, I'm not putting your wife in the same category as my mother, but my mother was an excellent nurse when I was sick.
	It's just when I disagreed with her or wanted her to do something she didn't want to do in the moment that she got kind of irascible, right?
	So, again, I'm just saying it's certainly possible that she took care of you, but that's not quite the same as caring about you.
	Caring about someone really shows up when they disagree with you or they're telling you to do something that you don't want to do.
	Then that's where the caring of the trust comes in.
	Right, yeah.
	Yeah, because the last thing you want is to actually have that conversation.
	What you want is to just be on the same page, be able to maneuver this life together.
	Well, you needed to be taken care of, and she was happy to take care of you, and that's a nice thing.
	But that's not the same as caring for you.
	Taking care of you is...
	You know, like, my mother, you know, when I was, you know, at a fever or whatever, she'd mop my brow and bring me some soup and so on.
	But that's because I was no threat to her.
	I wasn't disagreeing with her.
	I wasn't telling her to deal with stuff she didn't want to deal with.
	I wasn't, you know, contradicting her.
	I was just someone you could take care of.
	You know, we took in a lot of wounded animals when I was a kid, and my mom was pretty good with them, right?
	Pretty patient, because they weren't any threat to her.
	So, it's when you're doing well, And disagreeing with her that the caring really kicks in, if that makes sense.
	I'm not trying to wave away the other stuff.
	I'm just saying it's not quite the same because you were both in alignment there.
	You needed to be taken care of.
	She was willing to take care of you.
	And that's good, but that's not the same as caring about you.
	Caring for you is not the same as caring about you and your thoughts.
	In other words, if you say something...
	I mean, does your wife...
	Recognize that just sort of hanging around, waiting for the mom to take out a loan on the house, if that's right, sitting around doing all of that kind of stuff, neither trying to stand up for what your brother-in-law wanted, or walk away from the whole situation and start life anew, that sort of hanging around in this limbo, does she sort of recognize that that's not ideal?
	I have had many...
	No, no, does she recognize that, not what you've said?
	No, no, she knows.
	She sees it.
	But she refuses to do anything about it.
	Okay, so that's not caring to you.
	That's not caring about you.
	Yes, yes.
	And I just wanted to add that she finds it too scary to deal with, and so that's why she avoids it.
	Because it's painful for her.
	But that's what courage is for.
	I mean, obviously, right?
	Courage is for when you know you need to do something, even when it's scary, right?
	Yes, absolutely.
	Okay, so she does lack courage in that area.
	I'm not saying in every area, but she lacks courage.
	She won't, she won't.
	And she also has this sentimentality, like crying at the brother's funeral, because she thinks that the mom loves the brother more than her.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	That's a little on the over-sentimental side, in my opinion.
	Okay.
	And it's frustrating for me, because I see...
	I see the potential of a woman who is hiding within her that she refuses to let come out because she doesn't have the courage to allow it.
	You've known her for eight years.
	There's no woman hiding in there.
	This is what you got.
	You can't be with someone for their potential, right?
	You've got a kid, right?
	Oh, no, you're trying to have kids, right?
	So, you know, she is who she is and she ain't going to change.
	I mean, she's going to come out of her shell.
	Any day soon, right?
	After 3,200 days or whatever it is, right?
	Don't worry, 3,201, she's going to be a completely different person.
	Well, so, I'm not going to leave her.
	No, no, no.
	I'm not saying leave her.
	Where did you get that from?
	I'm saying accept her.
	I'm saying the opposite of leave her.
	You're kind of half leaving her by wanting her to be someone different and she's going to come into her own any day and she's going to, you know, find that courage and, right, she is who she is.
	I'm saying accept her, not leave her.
	To me, it's an act of being unfaithful to be with someone to some degree in the hopes that they're going to be different.
	Ah, I see.
	That's a form of infidelity.
	Gotcha.
	Okay, well...
	I love this woman so much.
	I think I can manage that.
	Okay, and again, not disagreeing with you anything.
	Help me understand what it is that you love about her.
	I mean, her looks and all of that, it's not really, I mean, that's lust, right?
	It's nothing wrong with that, but it's not really the same as love.
	So what is it that you love about her?
	And her looks are not the reason that I'm with her.
	She's actually just a kind, sweet woman who just, she's not...
	Overly bombastic.
	She's very humble.
	She's very conservative, if you can call it that.
	And she just wants to be.
	She doesn't want to change the world or do anything crazy.
	She just loves being with me.
	I don't know.
	You're asking me why I love the woman I love, and I'm struggling even now.
	I just love this woman.
	For 10 years plus, right?
	So you know this is a real question, right?
	Love is our involuntary response to virtues if we're virtuous, right?
	So the things that you must love about her the most is her virtues.
	All right.
	She's nurturing, loving, kind, intelligent.
	She's so sweet.
	And she cares about what I do.
	She uplifts me.
	She makes my life easier by, not in this way, you know, the particular way that we're talking about right now, but in general, she makes my life easier on the day-to-day, in the small things, the little things.
	And it's invaluable.
	All right.
	That's fine.
	Okay, so tell me about the coldness that we started talking about, the lack of physical affection that's going on at the moment.
	Oh, okay.
	You said she has good reason for it, and I'm just trying to figure out.
	Well, I'm not trying to figure out because I can't make these things up.
	So tell me what is the reason why she's physically cold or distant at the moment.
	All right, so once again at the top, I do not blame her for this.
	I'm not mad.
	But she has been physically distant from me for quite a while.
	How long?
	Ever since her brother died, so four and a half years.
	Oh, gosh.
	So for more than half your relationship, she's been fairly cold and distant physically.
	That's right.
	Okay.
	Sweet and loving and cold and distant don't particularly mix in the same jar, but all right, I'm willing to suspend my disbelief and go forward in the journey.
	So, okay, so what's been going on?
	How does the distance or the coldness manifest?
	How do you know it's there?
	All right, so believe it or not, Steph, she actually is, you know, she nestles with me on the couch and stuff like that, but there's no real, like, cuddling intimacy.
	There's no, like, we have sex about once a month or something like that.
	I'm sorry, and that's been the case before and a half years?
	Yes.
	You've had, like, sex 50 times in the last half decade?
	Something like that, yeah.
	Holy crap.
	Yeah, and she knows how much it bothers.
	I'm sorry to interrupt.
	Before, early on in the relationship, how was your sexual frequency?
	Two times a day, and three or four times a week, something like that.
	And how long after you guys first got together did you have sexual relations?
	I actually made her wait a little bit.
	Because I valued trying to become close with her and understand her as a real, fully-fledged human being.
	I know that sounds weird.
	I'm still nervous about this.
	But we waited for a few weeks and then jumped right into it after that.
	Okay, so you had sex a dozen times a week?
	Off and on, I suppose, obviously not with the same frequency every week, but for the most part, for the first three and a half years, and then it dropped to once a month after her brother died.
	That's right.
	Okay, and obviously after her brother died, sexual frequency is going to go down because she's mourning and in grief and so on, right?
	And it just never picked back up again?
	That's right.
	Okay, and I assume that you talked about this and said, what's going on?
	This has really, really changed, right?
	From 60 times a month to once a month is a big change.
	And what did she say?
	We've had many conversations about it.
	And she continuously wanted to do better.
	Her words, I'm doing better.
	I'm taking my whatever bloody...
	Ashwagandha pills are, I don't know, I don't have any names on hand, but yeah, she claims that she's trying to do better, she's putting in the effort, but nothing really changes.
	And she knows how much it bothers me, especially because it affects my sense of self-esteem, how...
	Oh, it's torture.
	No, it's for men, I think for women too, but I think for men it's slightly more vivid.
	That's just torture, to be with a beautiful woman that you can't have sex with.
	It's like being a starving guy snatching at a hologram of food, right?
	Oh, exactly.
	And where's the caring?
	She's so loving and sweet and conservative and like, help me understand.
	She knows how important this is for you.
	And it's not changing.
	And that's why I'm calling you.
	And she's dishonest because she keeps saying...
	She's working on it, and I assume she has said for years and years that it's going to change, right?
	Yes.
	And it doesn't change.
	All right.
	Have you considered the possibility that she's not attracted to you, or maybe even repulsed by you?
	I'm not saying that this is the case, but is that a possibility?
	No.
	And, well, okay.
	You must have thought it.
	That's what I was going to say.
	It's like, if you've asked me that I would consider it, yes, of course I have.
	And what I've done in response to that idea is that I have worked out excessively and groomed myself and gotten a job.
	No, but it wouldn't be fundamentally physical, because otherwise people who were married for a long time would stop having sex.
	And that's not the case.
	So it's not just a physical thing, right?
	No.
	And that's kind of what I mean.
	I worked so hard to improve my physicality to make myself physically attractive.
	Yeah, but that hasn't changed, right?
	That hasn't changed it.
	Exactly.
	And so now she's trapped in this mental headspace where she's...
	Okay, I'm going to give you my theory.
	And this is just a theory.
	But what I think is actually happening is every male figure in her life has left her, died on her, gotten sick on her.
	And when I got sick at the same time that her brother died, it reminded her that it's possible even for, well, for me to die too.
	And sorry, how long were you sick with?
	I'm sorry to forget, but how long were you sick with and what was your ailment?
	Two years, and it was psoriatic arthritis.
	And if you don't remember the exact specifics, I was swelling up and there was welts appearing all over my skin.
	I was like losing my hair.
	I was completely screwed up.
	I couldn't move.
	I couldn't go to the bathroom.
	I couldn't do anything.
	So she thought that I was going to die just like her brother did, just like her dad left her, just like her mom left her with an abusive stepfather, blah, blah, blah.
	And now here I am.
	And even if I can bring myself back, even if I can go from absolute ground zero, And rebuild myself and become stronger and more powerful than ever.
	It doesn't matter because I showed her weakness.
	And that's it.
	Like, that was enough to prove to her that I wasn't enough.
	That's what I'm afraid of.
	Okay, so the fact that you were ill and disabled for two years means that her sexual desire for you As a sort of strong provider-protector guy, that that has gone, right?
	It's died, yeah.
	Okay.
	So, if that's the case, then why are you still together?
	If she's not...
	If your theory is correct, and she's just lost all sexual or romantic desire for you because you were ill, then I assume you're staying because it's worth it without the physical closeness.
	Yeah, I love being with her.
	It's weird coming from me, especially given our last conversation, because you know how much it matters to me.
	I love this woman, and she deserves somebody who actually cares about her.
	When was the last time you took a leadership role in the relationship?
	It's a hard question to ask because I feel like I do it all the time, but can you give me an example of what you might mean by that?
	You shouldn't need an example.
	Okay.
	Well, just recently I found her a proper doctor.
	I called them up, made sure that they were able to take new clients.
	I gave her the phone number and I made her call the number to make herself...
	Her own appointment because she hasn't seen a doctor in over 12 years.
	And I gave her...
	Wait, hang on, hang on, hang on.
	She's had a low sex drive for almost half a decade and she's not seen a doctor?
	That's right.
	So, why?
	I mean, that could have been an indication of something serious.
	I'm not disagreeing with you whatsoever.
	Sorry to interrupt.
	I assume at some point you said, listen, you need to go see a doctor if your sex drive is gone.
	Over and over.
	I did this so many times it boggles my mind why she actually lied to me just a few days ago where she said that she called the number that I gave her and they said they weren't taking new clients and I called her bluff.
	Called the place and said, oh yeah, just have your wife call in and we can make an appointment.
	Okay, so hang on.
	So she promised you to go see a doctor, you got her a place to go, and then she lied and said they were too busy to take her when she never actually called them.
	Correct.
	Okay.
	What is wrong with you?
	No, this is not funny.
	This is not funny, bro.
	You're desperate to have her go see a doctor.
	You set it all up for her.
	And she lies to your face about calling them.
	She doesn't...
	It's not ill will on her part.
	Oh my god.
	You are...
	Oh my god.
	Are you cucked or what?
	Like, what the fuck is going on here?
	Are you like...
	Are you the head honcho of Simps Anonymous?
	She lied to you about seeing a doctor or her health when she promised.
	Okay, what does she have to do that's inexcusable?
	My god, man!
	Where's your spine?
	So what do I do?
	I just leave?
	I'm not sure if that's a rhetorical question.
	Are you just venting?
	No, no, no, sorry.
	Do I have to offer her an ultimatum?
	No, the question is, how the hell did you get into this situation where she knows she can light your face and you'll just stick around?
	No particular problem.
	You'll make excuses.
	She's so pretty.
	She's no respect for you.
	Because you keep making excuses.
	No matter how...
	As much as I try, no matter how much I push, I keep getting nowhere.
	Right, because she has no respect for you.
	Okay, how did she react when you found that she'd lied to your face about something absolutely important for you?
	Well, she was pretty surprised that I had the foresight to actually verify her lie.
	Okay, and then what happened?
	And then she...
	Does this thing where she emotionally shuts down and just stops speaking, stops reacting to me.
	Wait, what?
	Did she get on her knees and apologize?
	No.
	Has she apologized?
	Yes.
	Oh, after she shut down emotionally?
	Yeah.
	Okay, how long did it take for her to apologize?
	About half an hour.
	Okay.
	And how did the apology go?
	I didn't drive home the issue too much.
	No, no.
	How did the apology go?
	How did she say it?
	What did she say?
	She said, well, it was pretty simple.
	She was just like, I'm sorry I lied.
	I was just scared of going to the doctor.
	Okay.
	I accepted that.
	Oh, you accepted that?
	Yeah.
	That was kind of the end of the convo?
	No, it went on.
	It went on for quite a little bit.
	And I told her how much it hurt me that she would lie to me.
	And how much it means to me that...
	Hurt you?
	Oh, bro.
	What?
	What did I do?
	Hurt you?
	That's kind of girly.
	Didn't it piss you off?
	Well, yeah.
	Stop laughing!
	Stop laughing!
	Sorry, I do it.
	What are you trying to make me respect you as little as your wife?
	This is brutal.
	Stop giggling.
	Okay.
	I'm trying to help you here.
	Yep, I hear you.
	Hurt you?
	Did it not make you angry?
	It made me...
	Very angry.
	Okay, so what are you telling me about hurt for?
	Because I don't know what to do with these feelings, these feelings of anger.
	Well, what do you mean do with your feelings?
	Sorry for the dead air.
	No, don't worry about it.
	We're not live radio.
	Take whatever dead air you need.
	I'm genuinely curious about this.
	I don't know what you mean by do with your feelings.
	I mean, don't you just be honest?
	I suppose I'm not really sure what it means to be honest with these feelings.
	They feel so jumbled up.
	They feel so confusing.
	I know I'm angry.
	Okay, so let's say, what is the most honest thing you could say when you found out she lied to your face?
	What's the most honest thing you could say if you could say things consequence-free?
	Consequence-free?
	So talk to me like, I'm your wife, you just found out that I lied to you about something absolutely essential to you.
	What would you say?
	Okay.
	Why would you fucking lie to me?
	You keep doing this over and over.
	You keep telling me things that aren't true.
	You keep making excuses.
	Fucking hell.
	I'm trying to secure a life for our future children.
	I care about our marriage.
	And this is what you do over and over again!
	What if I lied about?
	What if I lied about?
	Tell me.
	You keep lying about going to the fucking doctor.
	You didn't goddamn call.
	That's one lie.
	What else?
	I keep telling you how much it means to me that we can't be close together.
	That we can't be intimate.
	Because you're always having problems.
	You're always stressed.
	You're always tired.
	Doesn't it matter to you how I feel?
	Don't you fucking care at all?
	Why is it the same thing over and over?
	You know I can't live like this forever.
	I've told you.
	How many goddamn times do I have to fucking tell you how much it means to me?
	And you don't care.
	You don't even try.
	Pathetic excuses over and over.
	Every single time.
	Okay, that's two things.
	What else?
	You say all the time.
	That's two things.
	What else?
	I'm rapidly running out of energy here, Steph.
	Why?
	Anger's supposed to help you with your energy.
	What else?
	All right.
	Scream therapy.
	You don't have to scream.
	Anger doesn't necessarily mean scream.
	I'm sure you've seen a Liam Neeson movie or two.
	So, what else?
	What else do you want to say?
	What else has she been lying about or has been frustrating you?
	Hen, we talked about it for the first 45 minutes.
	Go on.
	Do you understand how pathetic it makes me feel?
	Trying to help you, and you do nothing to help me.
	You keep doing this.
	It's almost like I'm some kind of a charity case to you.
	You look down upon me.
	You know I'm sick.
	But this is how I get repaid for bringing myself back up from nothing?
	All right, here comes a big one.
	You told me that you didn't want to outlive your brother.
	Thank you.
	And you threatened me to kill yourself before his death day.
	Do you care at all about how I feel about that?
	I can never forget that.
	Seems like you care more about him than anyone.
	And he's fucking dead!
	What am I supposed to do with this?
	Everyone cares more about a dead man than me.
	And I'm your fucking husband.
	Do I not get it?
	Any amount of sympathy.
	For everything that I've done, I can build myself up from nothing.
	And it doesn't matter to you.
	You don't see it.
	Who do I have to be?
	What kind of life do I have to live?
	Where you can see me again.
	The way that you did when we first met.
	Have I really changed that much?
	Am I a death sentence to you?
	Am I just a harbinger of pain?
	Why?
	That's all I got.
	Well, the answer is, my husband, that I don't have any particularly inner standards of behavior, and you let me get away with everything.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	You just keep coming back like a hungry dog to an empty dish.
	You just keep coming back.
	You keep making excuses.
	You keep...
	Listen, you don't think I know you're that angry deep down.
	You keep singing my praises, telling everyone how wonderful I am, but this is how you feel.
	It's gross.
	It's gross.
	You just keep making excuses and letting me do whatever I want.
	You're like a begging dog.
	Oh, please.
	I'm hurt.
	I don't think I've seen you get manfully angry in, God, maybe ever.
	Maybe ever.
	I need you to give me some limits.
	Clearly, I don't have these big limits within my own heart.
	I don't have these big standards of behavior within my own heart.
	So you indulge me.
	You spoil me.
	You make excuses.
	There are no particular standards.
	I say, oh, I'm sorry for lying to you.
	And you're like, I'm so hurt.
	I get what you're laying down.
	That makes sense.
	It's true.
	You're right.
	I have to put down some serious boundaries here, don't I? Well, I don't know, man.
	I mean, how am I going to take them particularly seriously?
	Fair enough.
	Look, let's be frank, man.
	You're too addicted to me to give boundaries.
	Addicted to what, sorry?
	Me.
	You're too addicted to me to give me boundaries.
	Oh.
	I could do anything.
	I could bring a dead hobo home in a wheelbarrow and you'd be like, let me help you bury, but I'm upset that you did this, but let me help you bury him.
	I don't know why you're so addicted to me.
	It's not like I listen super well.
	It's not like I respect what you want.
	I barely touch you.
	I barely have sex with you.
	I don't know why you're so addicted to me.
	Maybe it's the looks.
	I mean, I couldn't tell you.
	But you, come on, man.
	You have no leverage in this relationship because you're addicted.
	Okay, so I have to...
	You're not with me because of the good that I do.
	You're with me because you're addicted.
	What standards have you upheld me to?
	Might as well face it, you're addicted to love.
	Yeah, I'm like one of those kabuki guitarists up behind Robert Palmer, right?
	No, what standards?
	I can do anything.
	What have I not done?
	I can do anything.
	You might be a little annoyed, and then five seconds later, you're making excuses and giggling.
	I mean, maybe it's a mom thing, maybe it's a history thing, but I could do anything.
	And all I do is say, well, you see, I didn't call the doctor because I'm scared to go.
	Little old me, I'm scared, don't you know?
	And you're like, oh, it's okay, honey, you're scared.
	It's okay.
	I really needed to hear this.
	God, thank you so much, Steph.
	I can't tell you how grateful I am.
	It's like trying to fuck a cloud.
	You know, a woman is drawn to a man's tangible presence, not a maze of foggy excuses.
	This is the latest.
	Thank you.
	You've got to be there.
	I need containment.
	I need male strength.
	I need guidance.
	I need purpose.
	Are you a religious man?
	Uh, me, no.
	Well, you better find Jesus or read the Bible, because there's a reason all of that stuff is written down, that a man has to be the head of the household and needs to be the leader, and a woman is the leader in some areas, and a man is the leader in some areas.
	That's why I asked you, where are you the leader?
	Where have you had absolute standards?
	Where are your deal-breakers, husband?
	You don't have any.
	Because you're addicted.
	You know, I heard that conversation you did with that five-head podcaster in Canada, right?
	And he's like, you should have some standards.
	And you're like, oh, I'm just supposed to leave her?
	Like, that's the only way you can think of having standards, is to just give me an ultimatum and leave?
	That's the only way you can have any standards is to threaten me you're going to leave me?
	Or to just leave?
	That's the only way.
	So then if you stay, you can't have standards because the only way you can have standards is to leave.
	Because you won't leave, you can't have any standards.
	Right.
	There's one tool in your tool belt.
	Leave.
	The only way is to hold a different kind of masculine presence.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	So I'm terrified of being sick again, but I try and maintain as best I can, although obviously I've failed in basically every way.
	Just...
	Thank you.
	Try and give me one tip.
	Please.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	So, a tip.
	Your wife threatened suicide after her brother died, right?
	Correct.
	Okay.
	When did you first...
	Let's rewind even beyond that, right?
	So, early on in your relationship.
	When did you first have an impulse for some kind of standard?
	Because again, you've been listening to Philosophy Guy for a while, right?
	So when did you have an urge for some kind of standard that you didn't follow through on early on in the relationship?
	That I didn't follow through on?
	I allowed her to lie to me about her past history regarding her old boyfriends.
	Okay.
	Just a rough sketch of what those lies were?
	You don't have to get into details?
	Sure.
	They were all drug addict fucking weirdos who abused her.
	And she didn't tell me this until I went onto her social media and found them and started researching their history.
	And how long was that into the relationship?
	Very early on.
	And how long was that into the relationship?
	Three months.
	A few months.
	Okay.
	And why did you go researching her ex-boyfriends?
	Well, I actually like the girl, and I want to spend more time with her, and I wanted to be serious with her.
	And so I figured, you know, she was 19 when I met, and so, of course, she had to have been dating for a few years, which means she was dating underage, and she was dating guys as young as...
	When she was 14, she was dating guys who were 17, 18. And I wanted to find out who these people are so I can keep tabs on them just in case.
	Well, hang on, hang on.
	So she was dating 18-year-old men when she was a 14-year-old girl.
	That's right.
	You don't have to tell me where you are geographically.
	Have you ever looked up whether that's legal?
	It's...
	I don't think so, no.
	No, it's not.
	So if it's not legal, that would be statutory right?
	Correct.
	Yep.
	And so I was angry with these people, and she chose not to tell me this for a long time.
	She lied about their age.
	Okay.
	But you found out within a few months of dating her, and you talked to her about this, and what did she say?
	She broke down into tears and she wasn't angry that I found anything out.
	She just had never...
	She lied to you about the foundation of her history and the basis of your relationship because probably if you had met her and early on, like before you slept together, right?
	If you had found out that if your theory is correct that she's been statutorily raped repeatedly as a little girl, right?
	Would you have continued with the relationship?
	Let's say the third or fourth date, she said, listen, we haven't slept together.
	We barely held hands.
	We haven't even really kissed.
	But I do have this history that five years ago, I was a 14-year-old girl, and I was getting, in a sense, legally assaulted by adult males.
	Thanks.
	Thank you.
	Would I have continued with the relationship?
	Yes.
	Then I don't know what to fucking say to you, man.
	I really don't.
	Okay, then it just looks.
	Okay.
	No.
	No, come on, man.
	man, come on, come on, come on.
	I don't know how to- Why would you continue if you had found out this woman had been assaulted Assaulted sexually, if the theory is correct, why would you continue on with the relationship with a woman?
	How old were you when you met?
	I was 25.
	Okay.
	So a woman six years your junior with a history of extreme sexual trauma as a child.
	She deserves somebody who actually cares about her.
	I know you don't believe that.
	Okay, don't tell me what I do and don't believe.
	All right.
	Let me have my say in the conversation.
	The people who deserve to be loved are the people with virtues.
	Now, I'm not saying she can't have virtues because she was abused as a child.
	Of course.
	But if she had told you early on in the relationship, That she had a history of severe sexual trauma and child abuse.
	What would the loving thing...
	I mean, you can't love her after a couple of dates, obviously, right?
	But what would be the mature, wise, adult, and affectionate thing to do with such a person?
	Get them into therapy.
	That's right.
	Maybe be their friend.
	Maybe be a bit of a mentor.
	Maybe introduce them to shows like mine or other shows.
	Which can help her develop some kind of wisdom, help her get into therapy.
	not say, hey, you know, two weeks from now, I hope I can bang you too.
	Because you said it was a couple of weeks, right?
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Right, so a week into the relationship, she tells you this, and you're like, great, let's bang in two weeks, sounds good.
	Because I'm sure you'll be better by then.
	all healed up that's not exactly how I treated the beginning of the relationship but I understand I know what you're driving at.
	Well, you had sex with her within a couple of weeks of meeting her when she had a history of having her sexual boundaries violated repeatedly for half a decade.
	In some ways, I feel like it's almost impossible to find a woman who's not like this, but I understand that's a bit hyperbolic.
	Thank you.
	I am not a man of virtue, am I? You're trying to jump to conclusions, and I'm trying to get you into a moment here.
	You're jumping out so that you can observe yourself and judge yourself rather than experience what happened.
	This was a very damaged young woman, right?
	Right.
	And I've saved her from nothing.
	Okay.
	Again, I'm just trying to get you to go back to what happened.
	Okay.
	She was a very damaged young woman.
	You were six years older.
	Okay.
	You had had access to philosophy for some years beforehand.
	Was it very honorable to have sex with this young damaged woman when she was right out of her childhood and had been exploited for many years?
	No.
	That doesn't mean that you're a terrible person.
	It doesn't mean that this relationship can't work.
	But I think it's important to understand the origin story.
	Why does she think, if she was on the line, I'm happy to talk to her too, if I were asking her, why is your husband with you, what would she say?
	She would probably say something like, he's kind and sweet and he takes care of me when nobody else does.
	And he's an intelligent, talented man with So much capability and, I don't know, something like that.
	that.
	That's what she tells me anyway.
	Is that good enough?
	you Well, I mean, you're certainly very intelligent and talented, and I have no doubt about any of that.
	Okay.
	If I were to ask your wife, why don't you have sex with your husband, what would she say?
	Without filter.
	Okay, so this is tough because we've talked a little bit about this and I know what she would say.
	She would say something obvious.
	Like, I've just been so stressed at work and I'm just so tired.
	I think my hormones are off balance.
	I'm not really sure what's going on.
	It would just be something stupid like that.
	Okay.
	And then I would say, well, then why haven't...
	You play your wife, right?
	So then I would say, well, I mean, if you think your hormones might be out of whack and this has been going on year after year after year and it's driving your husband crazy, why haven't you gone to see a doctor?
	I'm just really scared.
	I don't want to know what's wrong with me.
	Every time I go there...
	It feels like I have to go on this long trip of trying to figure out something and blood tests and all this crap, and I just don't want to do it.
	I'd rather just fucking lay down and die.
	Well, I mean, that's obviously quite dramatic, right?
	You're just going to get some blood tests, right?
	It's not like you have some giant lump growing out of your butt cheek or something, right?
	That's quite dramatic, but you understand, like, you're married now, right?
	So you're one flesh, right?
	So you can't make these decisions individually, right?
	Because you've said to your husband, you can't sleep with anyone else but me, and you won't sleep with him, right?
	So it's not, maybe you sort of missed this part about the marriage thing, but it's not about you anymore, right?
	Once you're married, you're one flesh.
	It's you and the other person.
	Like, you can't just say, if you're single, right, you can say, I'm going to go and buy a new car or some expensive...
	Yeah, you're still playing her.
	Sorry, I don't understand what's...
	Is scary an excuse like you don't have to do anything?
	I want it to be.
	Okay, but it's not, right?
	No.
	I mean, would you accept that as an excuse from someone else?
	I just want to mention this is literally how she talks to me.
	No, no, I get it.
	I get it.
	That's why you're role-playing, right?
	So is that, like, let's say that your husband slept with another woman, right?
	And you said, oh my gosh, that's so terrible, why did you do that?
	And he said, I was horny.
	Would that be an excuse?
	Would you be like, oh, if you're horny, that's fine, right?
	No, I'd be angry.
	Okay, sure, because his emotions are not just an excuse, right?
	Just the fact that he's horny doesn't mean he can sleep with someone, and the fact that you're scared doesn't mean that you can't go to the doctor, right?
	You have to go to the doctor, right?
	But your feelings are like a big excuse for you, but your husband's feelings wouldn't be an excuse, right?
	If he came home with some new sports car that put you $100,000 in debt, and he said, well, I really liked it, would that be, oh, okay, well, then let's work to pay off that $100,000, right?
	Yeah, but if I just don't want to, you can't make me.
	That's certainly true.
	Yeah, of course.
	Of course.
	Right, so then if your husband says, well, I really do want to go and sleep with another woman and you can't stop me, that's also true, right?
	I really do want to go buy a sports car and you can't stop me, that's also true, right?
	So what's the point of saying that?
	The fact that you have a feeling and no one can stop you is certainly true.
	No one can make you go to the doctor, you can't stop your husband from sleeping around or buying a $100,000 car, so what?
	What does that mean?
	What happens if I go there and they find something out about me that I don't want to deal with?
	Well, so, that's life.
	I mean, that's life.
	I mean, everybody can go to the doctor at any time and the doctor can find something that's going to be tough to deal with.
	That's life.
	I mean, it's tougher to deal with if you don't go to the doctor.
	You understand that, right?
	I'm scared to die.
	I'm scared to live.
	I don't know what to do with myself.
	You're the only thing that keeps me sane.
	You're the only one that protects me.
	Well, I'm not protecting you if you don't go to the doctor.
	I can't protect you from that.
	But you do need to go to the doctor.
	You haven't been in 12 years.
	You need some blood tests, right?
	Certainly, there's nothing wrong with you.
	But you need to go and check, right?
	I mean, you go to the dentist, right?
	No.
	Oh, you don't even go to the dentist?
	Okay, so you have a fear, and I understand that, and I can sympathize with that, but do we just allow our emotions to dictate what we do in life?
	See, you give yourself the excuse, I'm scared, therefore I'm just not going to go.
	But that's not reasonable, right?
	And you want to become a mother, right?
	Yeah.
	Now, will you allow your children to say their emotions can completely dictate their behavior?
	No, I guess not.
	Okay, so you'll expect, say, a two-year-old or a three-year-old to do something even if they don't feel like it, right?
	I mean, two-year-olds don't want to brush their teeth, right?
	They don't want to eat their vegetables, right?
	So will you allow a two-year-old to just say, well, I don't want to, and then that's fine.
	You can stay up as much as you want.
	You can eat all the candy you want.
	You don't have to brush your teeth.
	You don't have to bathe because you don't feel like...
	I mean, it's kind of important because we're trying to have a kid.
	Is that...
	Is that your approach?
	No, but you always make this so hard.
	You always tell me about the important things that I have to do, and I just don't want to do it.
	I understand that.
	So what you're saying is that your children, at two or three years old, they have to be more mature than you.
	They have to do things even if they don't want to, but you don't.
	You're in your late 20s, or you're in your mid-20s, and so you're almost a quarter century older than your kids will be when you expect them to do things they don't want to do, right?
	I mean, you understand, at some point, like, you know in life, right?
	You know in life, you have to do things that you don't want to do, right?
	So I'm not sure why, like, everyone has to do things they don't want to do, but you get this big gold star.
	That you don't have to do things you don't want to do?
	I don't understand that.
	Because you married me, and I don't want to...
	Wait, you don't have to...
	Hang on.
	You don't have to do things you don't want to do because I married you?
	What?
	Sorry, there's a little logical leap there that seems to have gone through somebody's lower intestine that I can't follow.
	Why should I have to take responsibility for any of this?
	Why?
	Sorry, I don't understand.
	All I wanted to do was just be with you and be happy.
	And you're putting all this on me.
	Sorry, do you want an open relationship or a monogamous relationship?
	Monogamous?
	Okay.
	Then we have to increase our sexual frequency.
	Right?
	I mean, you know I'm not satisfied, right?
	I'm tired.
	Sorry, this is not about you.
	Just focus on me, you know.
	I'm right here.
	Okay, focus on me.
	Try not to make it about you for just like 30 seconds, okay?
	So you know I'm not satisfied, right?
	Yeah, I guess.
	And you also know that I'm not unreasonable, right?
	Because no man would be satisfied with once a month, right?
	Agreed?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	You also know that we had sex like twice a day for the first couple of years of our relationship.
	So you can understand why I feel that I might have been given a false bill here, like a false, given a false set of goods here, right?
	I guess.
	Sorry, what do you mean you guess?
	I mean, I guess you, yeah, that makes sense.
	I understand, okay?
	Hey, why are you getting so angry?
	I'm just talking here.
	Are you trying to be intimidating?
	Like, you're trying to warn me about, oh, this is a bad topic.
	Better not talk about it.
	Is that...
	I'm not sure.
	Is that what's going on?
	I'm doing better.
	I've tried really hard.
	Right.
	So, let me ask you this.
	Do you think that a man feels good when his wife tries really hard to want to have sex with him?
	Like she's bench-pressing 200 pounds to just give him a soul kiss?
	Like, do you think that that's positive?
	Is that a positive experience for a man?
	If his wife has to really strain and push hard and try her damnedest just to find him sexually attractive?
	No, I know what you want.
	You want me to want you, and I'm sorry, okay?
	Sorry, what are you sorry for?
	Because I'm not able to give you what you want.
	Well, I'm sorry.
	How do you know that you're not able to give me what I want?
	If you could just be a hormonal issue, you go see the doctor, you get a prescription, and you're fine.
	I'm not sure what you mean.
	How do you know you can't give me what I want?
	Yeah.
	Sorry, I'll call tomorrow.
	Okay, the question is, why has it taken almost half a decade?
	Because you claim to care about me, right?
	But you care more about your fear than me.
	I mean, just empirically, right?
	Because if I've been saying for half a decade, go see the doctor, because there's maybe something that needs to be tweaked with your hormones, and you haven't done it, it means you care more about your fear than the doctor.
	Sorry, you care more about your fear than me, right?
	Just breaking character very quickly here.
	Oh my God!
	Stefan!
	You are confirming everything that I've been feeling for so long.
	It's unbelievable.
	Now, do you see how I'm being assertive without yelling at her?
	That I'm taking a leadership role without threatening to leave?
	Because you asked me to give you an example.
	Well, I just gave you an example.
	Just don't take the bullshit.
	I'm being honest, but I'm not saying it hurts me, right?
	You're saying you can understand that a man would not feel very happy about a wife like she's bench-pressing an elephant trying to be attracted to him, right?
	So, this is not, it's not like begging, it's not yelling, it's not threatening to leave, it's just, that's, to me, I mean, maybe other people have different ways of looking at it, but that's being assertive.
	Just, you know, calmly and patiently not allowing nonsense to be said.
	And stating what you need.
	How right you are.
	Because she said, I'm scared to go to the doctor, and you've been like, okay, hug, hug, well, I guess we'll try another time, right?
	So you've allowed she's scared of the doctor to be a reason why she doesn't have to go to the doctor.
	So, yeah, you're scared to go to the doctor, but you still have to go to the doctor, right?
	And I allow it.
	Well, yes, you give her that excuse, and so she doesn't end up having to confront the fears, and I don't honestly even know if she's that afraid.
	It just could be she doesn't want to go to the doctor, and she knows that if she says to you, I'm scared, that you'll be like, okay, honey, pet, pet, I guess you don't have to go, right?
	And that's not good for kids, right?
	No, absolutely.
	Absolutely not, sorry, brother.
	Yeah, no, and I got what you meant.
	So that's why I brought up the kid stuff, right?
	Do kids have to do things they don't want to do?
	Well, yeah.
	Starting at what age?
	You know, maybe two or three or whatever.
	Maybe a bit earlier.
	It depends on the development of the kid, right?
	But do kids have to do things that they don't want to do?
	Yes.
	As a parent, are you responsible for your kids doing the right thing even if they don't want to do it in the moment?
	Yes.
	You know, I went to a cafe with my daughter.
	I had some work to do today and she had some math to do.
	So did she want to do the math?
	Nope.
	Did I want to do that?
	I was doing some fairly boring work today.
	Did I want to do that work?
	I did not.
	But, you know, I'll go and do the things that I don't want to do because you model self-discipline to your children.
	And the problem is that you've enabled your wife's complete and utter endless excuses and lack of self-discipline.
	Now, she probably has self-discipline when it comes to keeping her looks up, but not.
	So you've just treated her kind of like you would treat a spoiled child.
	And the fact that you treat her like a child is why she's buying action figures and plushies.
	Bryce.
	And the fact that you're treating her like a child is killing her sexual desire.
	Yeah.
	Because if she's a child and you're some older guy who wants to have sex with her, she's getting flashbacks to when she was 14!
	I hear you.
	I don't want to treat her like that.
	I don't.
	She's a woman.
	She can make up her own mind about what she wants.
	Sorry, what?
	What do you mean she can make?
	No!
	Oh my god.
	She can't make up her own mind about what she wants.
	Why not?
	Because she's...
	Thank you.
	She's stuck.
	Nope.
	Why can't she make up her own mind about what she wants?
	This was in the roleplay, and I know it's tricky, right?
	But why is it that she cannot make up her own mind about what she wants?
	Because I let her live in...
	No!
	Because she's married!
	Okay.
	If you want to make up your own mind about what you want, stay the fuck single!
	But once you're married, you don't get to make up your own mind about what you want, because you have to negotiate it with your partner, with your husband and your wife.
	See, this is why I'm saying, she doesn't want to go to the doctor if she doesn't get to make that decision, because she's married.
	Yeah, I follow.
	Like if you like to smoke and drive a motorcycle in the rain, if you're single, I guess you can make those bad decisions, but you can't make those decisions if you're married and a father.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	So she cannot make up her own mind about her own decisions any more than you can, any more than I can, or my wife can, or any married person who's properly married can.
	But you've been allowing her to stay kind of weirdly single.
	Like she gets to decide whether she goes to the doctor or not.
	She doesn't get to decide whether she goes to the doctor or not.
	Why?
	Because it's important to you.
	And she cares about you, and she's married.
	Do you think I get to dress however I want when we go to a nice restaurant?
	I do not.
	Right?
	And I'm fine with that.
	My wife's like, nope, time to change.
	I'm like, okay, I'll go change.
	I don't care.
	I don't care.
	Honestly, I could go in a pair of PJs.
	I could care less.
	But my wife wants me to dress well, so I'll dress well.
	I don't get to decide what I want.
	My wife gets pregnant.
	First thing she says is, we need a house.
	Did I want to buy a house?
	I did not.
	But we did, and I'm glad we did.
	She was right.
	It's better with a backyard when you have kids, right?
	I don't get to decide things.
	When I was doing my documentaries, I didn't just get to say, hey, I think I'm going to go to Hong Kong.
	I didn't just announce I'm going to Hong Kong.
	I say, oh, this is what I want to do.
	What do you think?
	What are the risks?
	What are the benefits?
	Can we afford it?
	You negotiate because you're married.
	But you've been allowing her to live this kind of selfish, not married life.
	Like, she can just decide whether she goes to the doctor or not.
	She can't.
	Because if she waits too long to go to the...
	Let's say...
	I'm not saying there's anything wrong with her, right?
	But let's say there is something wrong.
	And the longer she waits, the worse it gets.
	Who has to take care of her?
	Yeah.
	You!
	Yeah, it's going to be me.
	Right.
	So she doesn't get to make that decision because she's expecting you to take care of her.
	And so, if you say go to the doctor, she goes, I mean, do you think I went to the doctor every year for a checkup and get my blood work and all of that before I was married?
	Nope.
	Do I go every year now, get my way in, get my blood samples, get all my things checked?
	Yep.
	Hell yeah, you do.
	Of course I do, right?
	Because I'm married.
	You know, it's important because if I get sick, my wife's going to have to take care of me.
	So if she says go to the doctor to make sure you don't get sick and make sure you're not sick with anything, then she does it and I do it.
	I don't get to make that decision on my own.
	Because it's like saying, well, I'm only going to smoke and it's only going to affect my left lung, not my right lung.
	It's like, nope.
	That's not how it works.
	You don't make decisions in isolation.
	And I would suggest not having kids.
	Until you figure out what it means to be married.
	There's the golden ticket of a piece of advice that I was waiting for.
	You guys, in my view, not ready to have kids because she still has this belief that she's not one half of an archway.
	All right.
	Well, I... I can definitely take that on board.
	And quite honestly, I've been feeling the same.
	We have to match up before we can actually go through with all this.
	She can't be back there buying action figures if you disagree.
	I can't just come home with a, I don't know, a Cybertruck or whatever nonsense.
	I can't do anything like that.
	I don't even want to.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, we both need to get our shit in order before we can actually go through this.
	Well, you guys have to learn how to be a team.
	And being a team means when the other person says jump, you say how high.
	And then vice versa, right?
	I mean, you have credibility with each other.
	And this is why if you want to have authority with her, you have to get her to the place where she goes to the doctor because you want her to go to the doctor.
	And she's scared and she's nervous.
	You get that?
	You can go with her.
	You can hold her hand.
	You can, right?
	But she's still got to go.
	I don't like going to the doctor and getting blood drawn and, you know, and all of that, right?
	I don't like going to the doctor.
	But I go.
	Because it's important to my wife and it's important for me that it's important to her.
	And she's right.
	So, I think you guys are still kind of not united or you're not...
	One flesh.
	That's the reason why, again, I know you're not Christian, but there's a reason why the Bible says a man and woman become one flesh.
	She's still got this, well, I can just say I'm scared, and then I don't have to do what is really important to my husband, right?
	So she has got to figure out whatever is causing her lack of sex drive, and she has to solve it.
	Like, it's not optional.
	You know what's weird, Steph, is the first thing I think as soon as you say that is, oh, but I can't talk about her lack of sex drive because that's just pushing her more.
	And then that's me...
	No, no, but she needs to get to that place where she's like, oh my gosh, I can't not have sex with my husband because he's a man and I have a monopoly on his sexual activity, so I have to find a way.
	To solve my lack of sex drive.
	Because it's torturing my husband.
	It'd be like if I suddenly wanted to learn how to play the bagpipes at 5 o'clock in the morning, do you think I could do that with my wife and daughter home?
	No!
	Because what I do has a huge impact on them.
	Right?
	So I don't get to make that decision in isolation.
	Right.
	You recognize just how important it is to the people around you that you actually make an effort and do what makes them happy, especially when you're one flesh, when you're one family.
	Sure.
	Yeah, of course, right?
	I mean, if I was, I don't know, let's say I had some, I don't know, let's say some husband likes a particular kind of food that makes him super gassy, and whenever he's super gassy, he can't have sex, and he keeps eating that food.
	And he's super gassy and he never wants to have sex, right?
	Then he would say, well, that's not fair, right?
	My wife can't go without sex, so, right?
	I've got to stop eating this gassy making food or whatever it is, right?
	Like, you just have to constantly be thinking about what's best for the other person, and then they're thinking about what's best for you, and you negotiate whenever there's not a good coincidental overlap, right?
	That's marriage, right?
	Yeah, and I'm really glad we got to this place where...
	You're basically telling me exactly what I thought you might tell me in regards to this story, because it is kind of...
	Sorry to interrupt.
	I appreciate the praise, but I really want to get this last point across.
	So the challenge is not to fix your wife.
	The challenge is to talk to her about why other people don't show up enough for her, without blaming her or getting mad at her or whatever, right?
	Just with genuine sympathy.
	Given her childhood, we can understand it, and I'm happy to chat with her if she wants to chat.
	But it's like, okay, so you still live kind of an isolated existence.
	Right?
	Because she's isolated.
	That's what happens when we don't take other people's needs and preferences into consideration.
	we end up feeling really isolated.
	And if she feels isolated, it comes out of a shame or depression or something where she's just not connecting with you.
	Thank you.
	Maybe she doesn't feel like she can make you happy.
	Maybe she just feels so unhappy herself and is hiding the causes from it and all of that, right?
	Yes, absolutely.
	But it's trying to figure out why what you want, what you legitimately want, right?
	Dress up like a dolphin and have sex with me on the roof of the subway or something, right?
	It's a reasonable thing to say more than once a month might be a little bit of an improvement, right?
	That's a reasonable thing, right?
	So you have reasonable requests and she is driving them away or fencing them away.
	Like she's batting them away.
	Oh yeah, no, I'll work on it.
	Oh yeah, I'll go to...
	Oh, I called the doctor, right?
	She's just...
	It's a very distant kind of alienated, isolated manipulation.
	Yes.
	Sorry, I'm getting weird messages while you're talking.
	Trying to avoid them here.
	From your wife?
	No, from work.
	We're almost done here, so you can go put that fire out.
	So it's just, what's going on?
	Because the general temptation is, as you said, I'm hurt, I'm angry, and so on.
	And I understand those feelings, I really do.
	But that's sort of the relentless curiosity, right?
	The relentless curiosity is, well, why do you?
	Well, I'm scared.
	Okay, but why do you think being scared means that you don't have to do something?
	And, you know, you say this, well, why the hell do you?
	Like, genuinely, well, why just being scared?
	I mean, is that something that you're comfortable with me doing?
	Like, if I feel lust, do I get to sleep with someone?
	Well, no, that would be terrible.
	Okay, so you want me to act against my feelings, right?
	You want me to not sleep with someone even if I'm lusting after them?
	Because we're married.
	Okay.
	So that means that I have to act against the impulse of my feelings because I'm married.
	And so for you, you feel, oh, I'm scared, right?
	And part of it is traumatized childhood, part of it's pretty privileged, part of it is you enabling it for eight years, and so on, right?
	But why is it that you don't have to go against your feelings when I do?
	And everyone else does, and a two-year-old has to, right?
	If a two-year-old hits another kid, we don't just say, well, he was feeling aggressive, so it's fine.
	Right?
	We say, no, that's not right.
	Don't hit people, right?
	So, even a two-year-old has to be taught how to act against the impulse of their feelings, but you don't feel that, and, you know, just tell me why.
	What's the source of it?
	My guess is that when she started being sexually exploited by adults when she was 14, her emotional development kind of stalled there.
	Yes.
	Yeah, that's my feeling as well.
	And often for, you know, the pretty girls are pretty, but they also preyed on a lot.
	Oh, yeah.
	And I gotta tell you, this woman is fucking gorgeous, so it's no surprise at all.
	Probably not a shock that you put the F-bomb right at the beginning there, but...
	Oh, sorry.
	No, no, I don't mind that.
	Alright, alright.
	But yes, you're right.
	Well, I just want to thank you for allowing this to be public and giving everyone the chance to understand and learn from my mistakes.
	No, listen, I sympathize and I understand and, you know, I think that's a first for the show is to have a guy roleplay his wife while I'm roleplaying him.
	That's really something.
	So I appreciate that opportunity.
	That was great.
	All right.
	Well, thank you so much, Steph.
	You're welcome, brother.
	Listen, I wish you guys the very best.
	If I were in your shoes, maybe hold off a little bit trying to have kids until you sort some of this stuff out.
	But I hope you'll keep me posted about how it's going.
	And I do extend with great warmth and affection an offer to chat with your wife if that would help at all.
	I'm certainly keen to do that if it would provide any benefit for you guys.
	So I hope you'll keep me posted about how it goes either way.
	All right.
	Well, thank you, Steph.
	And I'm sure we will.
	I'll let you know what happens.
	Thanks, man.
	Take care.
	Bye-bye.
	All right.

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